How would you rank the brands of Tube TVs from the mid to late 90s to early 00s?

Heres my list. Where am I going wrong? :)

Sony
Toshiba
JVC
Mitsubishi
Panasonic
Hitachi
Zenith
Samsung
RCA
Sharp
Philips
Sanyo
Magnavox
GE

What is your criteria for ranking? Such as performance, reliability, price, etc., and then what is your weighting for each criteria?

Also models within a brand can very significantly in performance, reliability and the like. No offense but these sort of lists do very little but stir up arguments.

Updated list.

Performance and Reliability mainly. Im not looking to stir up a nasty argument. But some opinions and reasonings would be nice.

Im looking to purchase a 4:3 SDTV in the 27" to 32" range.

Im having a hard time fitting Samsung in somewhere, they really werent a key player in the late 90s, and I bought one of there TVs a 32" which was a piece of ****.

Reliability, picture quality, ergonomics, etc.. all things considered my list would go as follows:

Panasonic
Toshiba
Sony
JVC
Sanyo (good PQ/Price ratio)
Magnavox
...the rest do not really matter, I think Zenith, RCA, Syphonic, Funai, etc.. were all pretty much in the same league.

Personally, I think that Panasonic and Toshiba were my favorites, even towards the end. Toshiba even more so than the rest because when the flat panels started to move in, Toshiba responded by making their CRT TV's SMALLER, while Sony and the others kept making their CRT TV's LARGER, I mean what were they thinking, was Sony trying to bring down the CRT industry? Super fine Pitch or not I dislike Sony for 3 reasons, first, they initiated the "Silver Colored" electronics phase, second, their CRT chassis kept getting larger instead of smaller (remember the old V series from the mid to late 90's, now that was a chassis that was IMO, perfect). The last, their quality control seemed worse than any company; seemed like Sony CRT's became well known for power supply and other parts failures. Ok, one more, their black levels seemed worse than their shadow mask based counterparts, and Sony's ANSI contrast was not as good because the glow from the phosphors caused, interference glow in the surrounding areas more so than, again, competing shadow mask based CRT's.

Thanks so much, for the detailed reply.

I have a Sanyo 27" with a "roundish glass" front, but it lacks component inputs, which would be nice.

I have a question. Are the flat panels worth it? Dont they introduce difficulties with PQ(convergence and geometry issues)? Make them less reliable?

I may look to get a progressive scan 4:3 flat panel SDTV.

Toshiba
Panasonic
JVC
Hitachi
Sony
and
Sharp

seem to be what Im whittling down to.

To me the ONLY acceptable flat panel out right now are the Pioneer Kuro's and even then only just passable. It is amazing how much worse the black levels are if you are used to CRT black levels. Then again, if you are someone who always rides the brightness to the point where the raster is gray anyway you will not even care. Either way, if I were to get a flat panel TV right now I would either get the 8G Pioneer Kuro (because they are being heavily discounted and are still the best right now) or if I had to go with an LCD it would have to be the Samsung LNT-4071 (otherwise known as the "71" series). None will have CRT blacks, though Pioneer will have that soon in the 10G panels, however, those will not be out for probably another year or two and will most likely cost a fortune anyway.

I meant flat screen crt.

What are the advantages disadvantages of flat screen vs the old rounded off style glass?

Was progressive scan ever available on a standard resolution crt TV?

soloist3 made some valid points about shadow mask CRT's, but forgot how long these sets are likely to have been in service. It is for certain that they lose brightness faster than aperture grille sets, with less brightness overall from the start.

Calibration cannot "disproportionate" the difference, if you know what I mean.

I'm new here to the crt tube forum but I spend most of my time in the crt projection forum. In any case, I still prefer the look of a good crt picture over a digital just about any day of the week. I'm looking to get a new "used" crt tv and I have looked for a local 34xbr960 and 970 but haven't had any luck. Are there any other crt based tvs that are capable of 720 or 1080 resolution with an hdmi input? I thought I saw a ranking of crt tvs a long time ago but I can't seemed to find it and while this is close I'm look specifically for a ranking of models not really brands. This will give me an idea of what to look for and hopefully I can find something.

BTW, I'm located in the Dallas area if that helps for anything.

Thanks.

The last, their quality control seemed worse than any company; seemed like Sony CRT's became well known for power supply and other parts failures.

Whoa now, worse than any company?

I meant flat screen crt.

What are the advantages disadvantages of flat screen vs the old rounded off style glass?

Was progressive scan ever available on a standard resolution crt TV?

I know that none output HD resolutions in progressive, but I'm fairly certain my XBR970 outputs in 480p. As far as flat vs. round, you'll get a little more edge distortion with a pure flat tube, but more off-angle glare with round. It really depends on your preference. It will of course vary wildly between makes and models of TVs, so a good eyeball test is really the only way to judge.

Do all non Sony CRTs have a shadow mask? I really would like one to last for as long as possible with light usage. Maybe I should look for a Trinitron?

Do all non Sony CRTs have a shadow mask? I really would like one to last for as long as possible with light usage. Maybe I should look for a Trinitron?

No, there were some aperture grille non-Sonys because the patent ran out on the Trinitron tube a while back. I wouldn't really consider that when making your purchase though. Anything you buy now will be a few years old and there's no hard and fast rule saying either screen type will last longer.

there's no hard and fast rule saying either screen type will last longer.
Beggin' your pardon, sir, but if everything else in two sets is working as when new, a grilled TV will indeed retain brightness longer. This is documented in the CRT repair faq from Usenet.

IIRC, the mask holes collect malformations at a faster pace, just because the mask presents a greater area of opacity to the scanning electron beam.

Beggin' your pardon, sir, but if everything else in two sets is working as when new, a grilled TV will indeed retain brightness longer. This is documented in the CRT repair faq from Usenet.

IIRC, the mask holes collect malformations at a faster pace, just because the mask presents a greater area of opacity to the scanning electron beam.

I know the mask absorbs more electrons and produces a darker image by nature, but you're making assumptions about the quality of manufacture. I've owned a number of monitors with InVar shadow masks and didn't notice any deterioration of brightness or clarity over time even with heavy usage.

Point being, any used shadow mask he checks out will have a few years on it, and if he's happy with the brightness and focus (and assuming the brightness settings aren't maxed out to compensate for a worn-out tube) then it should be fine for his purposes of light usage.

I say Loewe for the best pic and good blacks.

I'm new here to the crt tube forum but I spend most of my time in the crt projection forum. In any case, I still prefer the look of a good crt picture over a digital just about any day of the week. I'm looking to get a new "used" crt tv and I have looked for a local 34xbr960 and 970 but haven't had any luck. Are there any other crt based tvs that are capable of 720 or 1080 resolution with an hdmi input? I thought I saw a ranking of crt tvs a long time ago but I can't seemed to find it and while this is close I'm look specifically for a ranking of models not really brands. This will give me an idea of what to look for and hopefully I can find something.

BTW, I'm located in the Dallas area if that helps for anything.

Thanks.

For resolution - you are looking around 1400 horizontal tops for something like an SFP Sony (I have a 36 in kd955xs). Most are somewhat lower - for example my RCA MM36100 is around 930 horizontal.

My set does have HDMI input but won't take 1080p. A set labled HD should be able to accept a 1080i signal for sure, (my older RCA will not accept a 720p signal - but there's not a reason to send that anyway as the sets only scan 1080i regardless of what it gets).

Truth be told there is not that much difference between my RCA and the Sony - they both look fine with HD material (both are 36 inch 4:3 sets); but you would need to get a transcoder for some of the older sets that only take VGA in (I use a network streamer that has DVI-I out and use the analog out of that to feed my RCA) but you could get an HD Fury or other solutions as well to get analog for the older sets.) As I mentioned the later SONYs take either HDMI or component for HD input.

For resolution - you are looking around 1400 horizontal tops for something like an SFP Sony (I have a 36 in kd955xs). Most are somewhat lower - for example my RCA MM36100 is around 930 horizontal.

My set does have HDMI input but won't take 1080p. A set labled HD should be able to accept a 1080i signal for sure, (my older RCA will not accept a 720p signal - but there's not a reason to send that anyway as the sets only scan 1080i regardless of what it gets).

Truth be told there is not that much difference between my RCA and the Sony - they both look fine with HD material (both are 36 inch 4:3 sets); but you would need to get a transcoder for some of the older sets that only take VGA in (I use a network streamer that has DVI-I out and use the analog out of that to feed my RCA) but you could get an HD Fury or other solutions as well to get analog for the older sets.) As I mentioned the later SONYs take either HDMI or component for HD input.

Thanks for the reply, almost thought it got lost in this thread. :) I'm familiar with the hd fury as I got a Moome ext hd (similiar just has more features) for kinda the same reason. My crt projector won't except the hdmi directly. In any case I may search around for one of those. Does anyone else recommend anything that will do hd material? It doesn't have to be the absolute best but I would certainly like to get a good display since these are going for next to nothing now.

Thanks.

You probably will not be able to find one, but I will put my 38" Loewe Aconda up against any TV made today. The tube is not flat, there is no HDMI input, it won't do 1080i, and it weighs over 200 pounds, but black levels are unmatched and the overall picture remains superb after seven years. Best consumer TV ever made.

Loewe should be #1.

And to the above poster, the Aconda does do 1080i, did you mean 1080P?

I would have to rate late '80's Magnavox's pretty high on reliability. I bought my mother a bare-bones Magnavox 19" TV in 1988, and she has run that thing daily from 7AM to 11PM without any repairs OR adjustments! Not bad for a $150 TV from Dillards. :)

Problem is, she refuses to have cable (brother had it installed, she had it ripped out as they made the final connection), so I have to deal with buying her a new TV to accommodate DTV. No, forget the adapter, her old lady friends have told her that the adapters don't work -- so and they're always RIGHT (yeah I know).:rolleyes:

All I want is a basic 20" CRT DTV with remote, it does not need to be stereo or have input jacks. Reliable enough to last five years or until she dies....whichever comes first (she's 86).

No, there were some aperture grille non-Sonys because the patent ran out on the Trinitron tube a while back. I wouldn't really consider that when making your purchase though. Anything you buy now will be a few years old and there's no hard and fast rule saying either screen type will last longer.


Didn't Sharp built a tube essentally identical to Sony's back in the late 80's -early 90's? I believe Sharp called their version the "Linytron".

Sorry, I meant to say that the Loewe Aconda does not do 1080p.

My Loewe wont do 1080p, just think how insane the pic would be if it do 1080p.

Loewe, I never heard of it.

Seems they had the best video processing, or some such.

#1 it is.

Didn't Sharp built a tube essentally identical to Sony's back in the late 80's -early 90's? I believe Sharp called their version the "Linytron".

Not sure, but I know Mitsubishi had the Diamondtron and Panasonic did a few aperture grille TVs.

I found a local 34xbr910 on craigslist with the matching stand for $600. Is this a good price? The only downside I can see is that it doesn't have hdmi or vga so I don't know how I would hook up to the tv.

Bit high IMO. Offer em, $480, cash, if its in excellent condition.

One just went for $355 on ebay.

I found an aperature grille Panny. It was a flat screen "Hi Scan" widescreen model.

I think I might look for a curved screen Sony Trinitron from the mid 90s in 4x3 480i.

I have a lightly used mmRCA36100 that works great for sale for $250 & I'm near Charlotte, if you could use a curved screen CRT HDTV. I can't get it to work with the HDMI connection via HDfury converter to VGA. It has HD only with VGA connector, and also a SVGA connection + component, etc. Might be too large for your purposes.
6pence@charter.net

I I can't get it to work with the HDMI connection via HDfury converter to VGA. It has HD only with VGA connector, [/email]

RCA mm36100

Did you try it at 1080i and (if available on your source) 800x600? The tv won't sync to 720p. Mine will do those and 480 p as well. As I mentioned above I am currently feeding it via both a MyHD card (set to 1440x1080i - perfect for this tv) and an IODATA Pro HD Network player via the analog on the DVI output (set to 800x600 or 1080i (which has some overscan) on the second HD input. (have to switch to 480i for dvds as the HDMI police don't allow DVD analog output on the DVI if and HDCP display isn't detected. But its fine for watching network HD and off an external hard drive

Mine has had heavy use over the year and still gives a great picture - so a lightly used one still has a lot of life in it IMO.

I used to feed it via a Key digital component to vga transcoder. If someone is interested in that solution I would let it go for $75 assuming I can still locate it (it was around $325 new - but the HDFury has its own transcoder - don't know why yours isn't working)

"Did you try it at 1080i and (if available on your source) 800x600? The tv won't sync to 720p."
I was using a 2nd gen D* Zenith HD receiver @ 1080i via VGA to VGA of the MM 36100 and it worked fine...but I couldn't decode the mpeg4 new HD channels available with the D* H21 receivers. I just got 2 (free) D* receivers, thinking I could use the HDfury to convert the HDMI to VGA...but it just didn't work (no power supply?). I might use my projector's KeyDigital transcoder and the component out of the H21. Good thought. I was going to try the HDfury in the HomeTheater with my TAW CRT projector. (wish me luck)

[QUOTE=6pence;14145678. I was going to try the HDfury in the HomeTheater with my TAW CRT projector. (wish me luck)[/QUOTE]

Good luck! OT for direct view: I am using a Moome external box to feed my CRT transcoded and HDCP stripped RGB with a gamma boost (Marquee 81110+); but didn't want to suggest a $400 investment to get a $250 tv working. Although I do remember seeing somewhere that you really did need to power the HDFury which made the price difference a little less in reality. I also use it to switch inputs (right now using 2 hdmis but also has a component) and that got a medium bandwidth vga switch out of my video chain.

Perhaps not totally OT as many late 90s to early 00s direct views that are hd capable need rgb inputs as well, and certainly need the HDCP stripping for HD.

I thought the Moome and the HDfury did pretty much the same thing. The TAW is a modified Marquee, I think. I was able to trade in an old Onkyo 909pro receiver for a (refurbished) new Onkyo 905 with HDMI switching ($900 for the tradeup!) and the ability to decode the new audio formats. I am hoping I can use either the gamer or the advanced HDfury to go from the HDMI out on the Onkyo to the VGA (dsub15) connection on my Rock+ pass thru. I could possibly just ditch the Rock and go your way direct to the projector if the video processing in the new Onkyo equals the Rock with regular DVD's. Do you think these upgrade plans will work?
RP

Beware buying based on just brand rankings in terms of picture quality, reliability, etc. There are good models and, in many instances, mediocre models within the same brand's product lineup. I think the HDTV that's served me well for the past seven plus years is a good example. It's the RCA F38310(J series). I'd rate it second only to the smaller (34") Sony 960 for overall picture quality, black level performance and reliability/product integrity. Yet, like the last model runs for many Sony products, the earliest versions of the F38310 were prone to power supply problems(blown, under-rated capacitors) that helped earn the brand a mediocre to poor reputation in the market place. RCA recalled every F38310 sold in late 2000, fixed the problem and returned the product to the marketplace, I bought one of them in early 2001. IMO, with the exception of a 1080P feed to a Pioneer Kuro, my RCA (or a Sony 960) deliver better overall picture quality than any flat panel currently available. I also suspect that the Loewe Anaconda owner who posted earlier in this thread is raving about a set with the same 38" picture tube as that in my RCA. It was the last CRT made in the U.S. and RCA made it.

The moral of my little diatribe? Buy a CRT based on the performance of a specific model as supported by the thousand of posts in this section of the forum. It's a lot more reliable and precise than searching for the ultimate, can't-go-wrong brand.

I thought the Moome and the HDfury did pretty much the same thing. The TAW is a modified Marquee, I think. I was able to trade in an old Onkyo 909pro receiver for a (refurbished) new Onkyo 905 with HDMI switching ($900 for the tradeup!) and the ability to decode the new audio formats. I am hoping I can use either the gamer or the advanced HDfury to go from the HDMI out on the Onkyo to the VGA (dsub15) connection on my Rock+ pass thru. I could possibly just ditch the Rock and go your way direct to the projector if the video processing in the new Onkyo equals the Rock with regular DVD's. Do you think these upgrade plans will work?
RP

You lost me here - but some partial response below.

The Moome is supposed to be a somewhat higher quality solution than the HDFury - but it does cost more - there are some screen shots and comparison notes in the Curt Palme crt forums. In addition to the quality difference it does have the 2 HDMI plus component input switching as well as an adjustable gamma curve. Not trying to say its worth the extra $, just that there are some extra features.

Regarding your other point I have no idea what a Rock even is so can't answer you. I am envious that you have a receiver with HD audio - that is on my wish list.

As far as playing dvd's goes with my current system it is directly via HDMI from a PS3 (dvd or blue ray) through the Moome box to the projector. No scalers or signal processing for me beyond what the ps3 does (it is fine - I output 1080i versus 1080p as the latter is soft on the Marquee - the Moome gives the ps3 HDCP handshake to allow upscaling.

RaplhArch
Thanks, I'll check out the Curt Palme crt forums for the comparisons.
(The Rock is a pretty nice outboard scaler.) I appreciate the advice.
6P

I've certainly been pleased w/the performance of my Sony 40XBR HDTV. Bought it in Dec. 2002, and to this day it displays superb reference quality pics. At the time, I also shopped the Loewe Aconda and Panasonic Tau. Both, top performers and worthy of being at the pinnacle of CRT development & production.

My 40XBR replaced an older Sony 27" XBR, which in fact still plays great and is setup in a spare bedroom w/its special designed stand w/sub woofer. Consider me one of the fortunate ones that does not have any geometry problems or any other problems w/the 40XBR. I did have a problem w/the "greenies" in the corners afew years back, but this problem was totally rectified. If you want to see a beautiful sight, you should experience 40 fullscreen inches of 4:3 pristine CRT color on this Baby Huey.

Im having a hard time fitting Samsung in somewhere, they really werent a key player in the late 90s, and I bought one of there TVs a 32" which was a piece of ****.

That's probably just bad luck because Samsung is one of the best brands when it comes to TVs.

How good were the Princeton Graphic TVs?

How good were the Princeton Graphic TVs?

I thought they were tunerless PC monitors?

Well, the TV's i had from that list are Sony, RCA, sharp, and a Panasonic. I only got into tweaking and such once i had my old Sony. So back then with my other sets i didn't notice any overscan, convergence problems ( funny how you never notice any of those problems until you start looking for them :P) All lasted me years and had no problems EXCEPT the one RCA i had. It blew up one night while i was watching it. Looked like a bolt of lightning came out the back of the set and shot up my wall. I'll rate what i had from best to worst;

Sony
Panasonic
Sharp
RCA

I was reading an old consumer reports from 2003 and here's what it said about 27" tvs.

"27-inch sets. Two flat-screen models stand out: The Toshiba 27AF42, $475, was among the easiest to use and had excellent S-video quality, a plus for use with DVD, digital cable, or satellite. The Sony KV-27FV300, $700, was the best of the sets that have dual-tuner PIP, which lets you watch two programs at once (one in a small window)."

Consumer reports gets it wrong sometimes when they rate Panasonic higher than Pioneer for tvs for instance, but that's because Consumer Reports doesn't really test brands like Lowe, Pioneer Elite, Fujitsu, Runco, etc when it comes to tvs.

Another reason for skewed Consumer Reports on TV's or other electronic components is that they use a price quotient into the formula.

The Top Five from back home...

RCA
Magnavox
Philco
Curtis Mathes
Zenith