'Master & Commander: The Far Side of the World' Information and Review Thread [Text View]

davide

05-03-08, 09:41 AM

Hi
Just a quick update(found on the M&C Thread) on my previous thoughts of the Blu-Ray Master & Commander.I viewed the disc for the second time last night,and the observations about the colour/softness are almost certainly down to the original photography - and that the Blu-Ray is faithful to the DOP's original intentions. The fog/grain section at the start of the movie is an artistic one and would have looked like this during the theatrical presentation.It must be said, that this is a very dark movie and needs to be seen in total blackout conditions.Having compared the dvd,the level of detail in the blacks on this Blu-Ray is much higher.This version looks like the same master as used for the D-theatre release.Yes the picture is rather flat,colour's are muted but this was a feel that the director wanted.Its worth mentioning that Russell Boyd won an Oscar for "Best Cinematography" and Richard King won an Oscar for "Best Sound Editing".Don't expect to see any HD visual demo material on this disc,but its worth upgrading from the dvd(keep for the extra's)
Regarding the audio elements,my amp indicates 5.1.( hdmi-pcm) although information does appear in the centre back,meaning DTS ES 5.1 is present? The only problem I had with the sound,was that I had the level set to hear the centre channel clearly, until the first battle..Wow.
The UK disc is slightly different to the US disc in that it has DTS HD MA 5.1. and Spanish 5.1.DTS,but not the french 5.1 or the D-box. It also lists incorrectly the movie as 132mins (the pal dvd running time)instead of 138mins.Both are BD50 avc dual layer.

Equipment: Sony vpl vw50 ,Sony str3200es, Sony PS3,Sony Blu-Ray BDP-S1, Pioneer Plasma 427,Quad & Linn speakers all via Hdmi

lgans316

05-03-08, 10:01 AM

So is this worth the wait ? I don't think so.

Frank Stein

05-03-08, 10:15 AM

Hi
Just a quick update(found on the M&C Thread) on my previous thoughts of the Blu-Ray Master & Commander.I viewed the disc for the second time last night,and the observations about the colour/softness are almost certainly down to the original photography - and that the Blu-Ray is faithful to the DOP's original intentions. The fog/grain section at the start of the movie is an artistic one and would have looked like this during the theatrical presentation.

I completely agree with your observations. Following is the brief review I posted in the other M&C thread:

--------------------------------------------------
"Only had the chance to watch about 20 minutes of the movie.

Viewed on 60" Pioneer 150FD plasma from Pioneer 95 BD player.

The DTS MA sound (5.1) was superb. I use PLIIx on a Denon 4308 to create 7.1 channels. Distinct sounds coming from all the speakers. The cats were frequently turning their heads to look at the various speakers. That's my test for good sound separation.

The colors in this movie tend to be muted in line with a not so sunny sky and nighttime scenes. So, there won't be the "pop" that is so often looked for. That being said, the PQ is very good. I'm glad I purchased this BD and look forward to watching the entire movie this weekend."
--------------------------------------------------

Based upon his post above, I have to wonder if dgkp ever saw the original movie:

Prepare for disappointment. Watched it last night. The PQ is very poor (for a blu ray): soft, artifacty, dull and lifeless. Yes, I'm sure it's better than an upscaled DVD but it's likely to end up a low tier 3 or even a tier 4.

Sometimes it seems that some of the BD/HDDVD crowd around here is more interested in an image that pops with brilliant color and incredible detail than the movie itself. To be a good BD disk, the image simply has to be faithful to the original movie. Whether or not the viewer likes the original cinematography is another issue, not related to the quality of the image on the disk.

townofturley

05-03-08, 10:19 AM

So is this worth the wait ? I don't think so.

Any chance you could be a bit more specific? Why don't you think it's worth the wait? Because you don't like the movie? Or because it isn't eye candy?

lgans316

05-03-08, 10:21 AM

Sometimes it seems that some of the BD/HDDVD crowd around here is more interested in an image that pops with brilliant color and incredible detail than the movie itself. To be a good BD disk, the image simply has to be faithful to the original movie. Whether or not the viewer likes the original cinematography is another issue, not related to the quality of the image on the disk.

M&C is relatively a recent title and given the fact that FOX has made us wait long for the stateside release, the type of picture quality that is reported on the REGION-A BD is unacceptable. If the PQ ain't up to the mark then FOX should have at least ported the extras from the CE. Sadly, all of the genuine and fascinating featurettes from the two-disc DVD are missing.

http://avplay.avforums.com/index.php?showmediareview=9289

PQ : 7/10 :(
SQ: 10/10

http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd/master-and-commander-the-far-side-of-the-world.html

PQ : 9/10 :)
SQ : 9/10

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ID=8174

http://www.blurayreviews.ch/reviews/master-and-commander-blu-ray-review.htm

PQ : 3/5 :(
SQ : 5/5

http://www.digital-movie.de/dvd-reviews/review.asp?ArtNr=6356

PQ : 4.5/6 :(
SQ : 6/6

http://www.cinerama.no/html/review/48687549.html

Extras

* Historical and Geographic Trivia Track
* Geographic Pop-up Map (track the location of Captain "Lucky" Jack Aubrey and his enemies)
* Personal Scene Selections
* Search Content
* Master and Commander Theatrical Trailer (HD)
* D-Box Compatible
* 5 Deleted Scenes

lgans316

05-03-08, 10:24 AM

Any chance you could be a bit more specific? Why don't you think it's worth the wait? Because you don't like the movie? Or because it isn't eye candy?

Do you know how many times FOX had bumped the release of this title ? It's been more than a year and FOX is giving the same treatment they gave to the overseas release which was released long time back.

HPforMe

05-03-08, 11:50 AM

Whether the image is faithful to the "original" or not for the purposes of Hi-Def is of little consequence. If the original presentation is poor the Hi-Def benefit will be minimal and that should be reflected in the reviews. I see the only benefit in the Blu Ray version over the SD version playing for example in my XA2, is the DTS HD MA in my PS3. I've found the DTS HD MA tracks superb so far such as Kingdom of Heaven and Predator. The sound has always been the strength of this movie. Now that we get a lossless track that will be hopefully the saving grace of the Blu Ray version with an otherwise mundane Hi-def picture.

robertc88

05-03-08, 12:00 PM

I got this locked in on SD DVD to the point of not getting any better IMHO with my equipment and it only viewed at 480p for years. It isn't any of my BD players I'm using even to this point as I have a Denon SD player. It is probably the most of any disc I've ever fussed with for PQ in my life adjusting player and display settings.

There are several tranquil places where one should see pop IMHO. Most of Chapter 18 for one reference and also the start of Chapter 10. I will be VERY disappointed if these spots in the movie don't come out any better on BD than SD DVD though it looks pretty darn good to my eyes with the latter. If I can get even a 25% upgrade though on PQ through the tough chapters like 15 and 16 where all hell breaks loose with a stormy sea, fog, wind rain, etc. etc. I'll be pleased.

This is not suppose to be the same POS as the EU BD version from what I know in discussions on other threads back when regarding this movie. If I had the ability, I'd post some screen shots of this in 480p and it looks better than those dvdactive.com shots.

I sure want to take a look at this myself as I'm obviously not content with watching the SD DVD in 480p with my Tosh 50" RPTV as I had for years but I've had viewers of this movie using my equipment say it isn't all that bad even in the tough spots to tell the truth. Guess the time I spent fussing with it has been worth it.

Davide is right. This movie needs to be viewed in total blackout conditions. I never even bother anymore with viewing it until dead of night.

I await more opinions. Hopefully i'll get mine middle of next week.

townofturley

05-03-08, 02:04 PM

Whether the image is faithful to the "original" or not for the purposes of Hi-Def is of little consequence. If the original presentation is poor the Hi-Def benefit will be minimal and that should be reflected in the reviews.

I completely disagree with you.

Being faithful to the original is everything and hardly "of little consequence". You seem to be proving my point that for some, BD is about popping colors and detail and not about movies.

You are saying the original is poor. What was it about the theatrical presentation that was poor. Is it that you didn't like the cinematography?

Tell me something. If the BD doesn't have to be faithful to the original, what should it be?

shamus

05-03-08, 02:37 PM

The DVD never looked good either.
Lets be honest, the main reason to pick this one up is its always been one of the best sounding movies ever made. If this is even a slight step up from DVD it will be worth it. Doesn't hurt that its an excellent movie either.

crunchyfrogs

05-03-08, 03:01 PM

I also loved this movie and will be picking it up asap.

JWhip

05-03-08, 04:12 PM

Guys, this release is completely faithful to the theatrical release and looks far better than the DVD and even better than the D-Theater release although but just a tad. The goal of high def transfers should be to be as an exact reproduction of the original as possible. Don't expect the BD disc to look better than the actual original film. The audio however is reference in all respects. It is an amazing audio presentation. Just dial up any of the battle sequences and let her rip. The audio fidelity on the music, especially the violin and cello passages is excellent as well. Wonderful fidelity and open sound with great imaging and depth.

m1fuller68

05-03-08, 06:51 PM

:mad:Still no amazon pre-order...What gives????

RDarrylR

05-03-08, 06:54 PM

:mad:Still no amazon pre-order...What gives????

Sure there is....

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Commander-Side-World-Blu-ray/dp/B000VDDWDS

townofturley

05-03-08, 08:04 PM

The DVD never looked good either.

Why is that? Because it's SD? What wasn't good about the SD DVD, other than not being HD?

Brian81

05-03-08, 09:11 PM

Why is that? Because it's SD? What wasn't good about the SD DVD, other than not being HD?

I do not own the DVD (I own the D-Theater tape), but I recall a lot of comments about macroblocking during cloudy scenes...

lgans316

05-03-08, 09:37 PM

Friends,

Is this title worth the wait considering FOX's frequent bumping, featuring of no extras from the CE and minting from the same master used for the D-Theater ?

Please be informed that the overseas release of M&C happened quite a long time ago and carries the same features.

m1fuller68

05-03-08, 09:37 PM

Sure there is....

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Commander-Side-World-Blu-ray/dp/B000VDDWDS

Oops...Must have missed it...Thanks:D

TheCrackedJack

05-03-08, 09:49 PM

I completely disagree with you.

Being faithful to the original is everything and hardly "of little consequence". You seem to be proving my point that for some, BD is about popping colors and detail and not about movies.

You are saying the original is poor. What was it about the theatrical presentation that was poor. Is it that you didn't like the cinematography?

Tell me something. If the BD doesn't have to be faithful to the original, what should it be?

Both of you have points. If the BD shows little difference from the DVD, there would be little reason to purchase it. IE, I'm not going to buy a SACD that I can't tell apart from a regular CD.

And your correct in saying the representing and being faithful is all the you can expect. Your right, replicating the original is what the BD should do.

However, if there is little difference between the original and the DVD, I think that should be noted so people don't waste their money. Whether M&C on BD replicates the original theater experiece, I can't say. I haven't seen the BD yet.

shamus

05-03-08, 10:40 PM

Why is that? Because it's SD? What wasn't good about the SD DVD, other than not being HD?

Its just real tough material to make look good on any format so i wont be shocked when people arent thrilled. Cant wait for my copy though!

Kram Sacul

05-03-08, 11:35 PM

If the BRD is only slightly better than the D-Theater version (compression-wise, same master was used) then I'd say it's pretty mediocre in terms of definition. Definitely a sound movie.

townofturley

05-04-08, 02:00 AM

Its just real tough material to make look good on any format

Let's be clear here. Are you saying it didn't look good in the large commercial movie theater?

robertc88

05-04-08, 07:14 AM

Fox hasn't disappointed me yet with BD not being much better than SD DVD. Just look at the DTS HD MA audio for one. Been pretty satisfied also with the video also on the ones I duplicated the SD DVD that I owned and I don't care about extras.

I got this particular movie looking pretty good in just 480p with my Denon on a Tosh 50" RPTV running component. Time will tell with the BD on my Panny BD30 and Panny plasma. I'm hoping to get it in the next few days as it has shipped.

robertc88

05-04-08, 07:20 AM

Its just real tough material to make look good on any format so i wont be shocked when people arent thrilled. Cant wait for my copy though!

Spent more time with this SD DVD than any other movie in my collection to look the best possible on my equipment because I like this movie so much!

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/9912/master-and-commander-far-side-of-the-world-1-dvd-edition/

It's the one I have and this SD DVD isn't trash by any stretch and the BD had better not be. :)

Baccusboy

05-04-08, 07:23 AM

It's on the shelves in Korea already. I saw it yesterday at Techno-Mart.

I wasn't going to pay the price they were asking for it, so I passed.

robertc88

05-04-08, 07:25 AM

The audio fidelity on the music, especially the violin and cello passages is excellent as well. Wonderful fidelity and open sound with great imaging and depth.

That's music to this man's ears. Always admired that on the SD DVD.

JaylisJayP

05-04-08, 10:44 AM

shamus

05-04-08, 12:35 PM

Let's be clear here. Are you saying it didn't look good in the large commercial movie theater?

I didn't see it in theaters... maybe Im wrong. I haven't seen it on my new display so it could of been the fault of the old one which didn't have the best black levels. You got me curious now, unfortunately I sold it quite some time ago when I thought the BD was going to be released.:(

Frank Stein

05-04-08, 01:31 PM

I completely agree with your observations. Following is the brief review I posted in the other M&C thread:

--------------------------------------------------
"Only had the chance to watch about 20 minutes of the movie.

Viewed on 60" Pioneer 150FD plasma from Pioneer 95 BD player.

The DTS MA sound (5.1) was superb. I use PLIIx on a Denon 4308 to create 7.1 channels. Distinct sounds coming from all the speakers. The cats were frequently turning their heads to look at the various speakers. That's my test for good sound separation.

The colors in this movie tend to be muted in line with a not so sunny sky and nighttime scenes. So, there won't be the "pop" that is so often looked for. That being said, the PQ is very good. I'm glad I purchased this BD and look forward to watching the entire movie this weekend."
--------------------------------------------------

Based upon his post above, I have to wonder if dgkp ever saw the original movie:

Sometimes it seems that some of the BD/HDDVD crowd around here is more interested in an image that pops with brilliant color and incredible detail than the movie itself. To be a good BD disk, the image simply has to be faithful to the original movie. Whether or not the viewer likes the original cinematography is another issue, not related to the quality of the image on the disk.

eh, this argument is worth less and less to me. In theory, you're absolutely correct, but if we're not talking a SUBSTANTIAL, INCREDIBLE step up over the DVD (not even mentioning the lack of extras) why in the world are we paying a substantial amount more for this disc?

Most people won't. THe DVD of this thing can probably be had for $3 on the internet, sorry but if you pay 10 times that just to have a small step up on blu-ray, director's intent or not, well....not the brightest decision in the world in my opinion.

Most of these complaints about PQ come from the demand for dramatic increase that should accompany dramatic price hikes. I thought that would be generally understood here.

But if you are comparing a BD to a well authored DVD, you will hardly ever see a substantial, incredible step up from the DVD. The problem is that there is so much personal perception and bias in this whole thing. It's almost impossible to get a valid objective conclusion, if one even exists.

I've seen comments posted that I really can't believe, but that do demonstrate what I've said. On one hand, some people claim to have sold their entire DVD collection now that they have seen HDM, and claim they can longer stand to look at those inferior DVDs. Yet somehow, they have been able to watch those "inferior" DVDs for all those years before HDM's became available.

Then we have those who say they don't really care about HDM because with a good upconverting player, their SD DVDs look as good as BD. I recall one post from someone with Pioneer 95 BD player who claims the upconversion is the very best and that his DVDs look like HD. This is the power of suggestion working overtime. I have the Pioneer 95, and it's upconversion capabilities are mediocre at best. Especially if compared to a player like the new Oppo 983 that is universally thought of as providing amongst the very best upconversion.

So what's the answer? Certainly not either extreme I mentioned. For me, when I look at an upconverted well authored DVD, it's easy for me to say the PQ is very good, but I can still see qualities of the image that make it easy for me to determine it's not HD. And unless it's a very poorly authored (or from a poor source) BD, it's easy for me to see it's better than the DVD. And yes, in many cases it is a relatively small improvement. But that improvement is enough to make the viewing experience so much better and worth spending the money for a BD. That's my philosophy and observations. Obviously, others will feel different and won't spend the money.

I watched M&C last night. It did not have the eye popping colors that so many require before they give their blessing as a worthy HDM. But that's nonsense. The movie was intentionally filmed the way it was. It's a dark, subdued, atmospheric movie. And I loved every second of it. Detail was excellent. The PQ was faithful to the theatrical presentation. Really, what more can you ask for?

You say that the complaints about PQ come from the demand for dramatic increases in PQ that should accompany the higher prices for HDM. I don't think it's realistic to tie these together. In the vast majority of cases you will just not get these dramatic increases in PQ. Just look at how often people rave at the PQ of a well authored DVD. Whether the high price of a HDM is worth it for whatever increase in PQ exists is another issue that is a personal decision. I see enough PQ improvement to make it worthwhile for me to pay the price. Others don't.

If PQ has to pop off the screen to be a worthy HDM, then I would submit that those who feel that way aren't really interested in movies, but confine their interest to PQ. No different than those who toss a collection of DVDs because of "inferior" PQ. They must certainly know that not everyone of those movies will make it to HDM. I have some movies on LD that still haven't made it to DVD. And it will take years for many of the current movies on DVD to make it to HDM. How can someone who likes movies toss all of those DVDs? It's completely beyond me.

shamus

05-04-08, 01:36 PM

Thanks Frank and well said... anymore thoughts on the AQ?

Frank Stein

05-04-08, 02:31 PM

Thanks Frank and well said... anymore thoughts on the AQ?

The AQ was spectacular. Amongst the best I've heard. I continue to be amazed at DTS HD MA. Very lively sound field all around the room with terrific imaging and clarity. The cello/violin duets sounded simply wonderful. The Denon 4308 does a wonderful job of decoding DTS HD MA from my Pioneer 95 and processing the 5.1 sound into 7.1 with ProLogic IIx.

shamus

05-04-08, 07:31 PM

cant wait!

BaronVH

05-04-08, 08:12 PM

I have the super-deluxe-executive version of the DVD and I will get this the second it comes out. This is the single best film depicting battles on the seven seas ever committed to celluloid. It is muted and grainy, and I do not care a bit. Bring it on.

robertc88

05-04-08, 08:47 PM

How much better can I expect when I posted a link for the SD DVD that was 4.5 for PQ with that disc which I have? I'm not expecting a substantial upgrade by any means. I'm expecting a true depiction of the movie and if it improves some is fine by me on this one.

BTW, it doesn't look like look some folks even care about the upgrade for audio and it is overshaded by discussions of the PQ lots of times. Well I'm not one of those. I don't want one side of the capability of BD with an experience for a movie so I made sure I got the appropriate equipment to take advantage for applicable BDs! Grant it the SD DVD may be pretty darn good for audio also but at least my bucks are shelled out for both.

I cannot wait till mid week for this one!! Bring it on!!

Shane Martin

05-04-08, 08:54 PM

Anyone want to take bets we'll get into another Predator/Commando like debate?

lgans316

05-04-08, 09:13 PM

townofturley

05-04-08, 09:22 PM

IMHO I have no issues with the reported PQ but is it worth the long wait when the overseas release happened quite a long time back ? I am pretty sure there is going to be another 10-15 GB of free space which could have been used to port the extras from CE.

Is it worth the wait? I'm not sure how to answer that. Yes, it took a long time to be released in the US. I rarely watch extras, so I don't really care about not having them. I'm glad to have this movie in HD, even with all the delays.

If you want to punish Fox by not buying this BD because Fox didn't do something special as compensation for you because they made you wait, well then that's your choice. But I think that Fox really won't care and you'll be depriving yourself of something you may really want.

robertc88

05-04-08, 09:38 PM

I've deprived myself on occasion for a better price for specifc BDs and lots of times Fox titles were amongst those. Guess one has to draw their own lines but I'm not doing so with this one cause I like it so much. I'll stop posting now until I actaully get mine and see it! Thanks to those who posted opinions on the quality and their position with buying this BD.

lgans316

05-04-08, 11:37 PM

Just because I rant about FOX's anti-customer attitude doesn't mean that I am not purchasing their EXTRAS FREE BDs. Just waiting for play-asia to dispatch M&C and CJ7.

BaronVH

05-05-08, 07:47 AM

Kosty

05-05-08, 09:09 AM

In Master and Commander the dark ship interior and early morning and night battle scenes should show quite a bit more detail on Blu-ray with a HD encode over the MPEG-2 DVD encode which tends to suffer detail depth on dark dimly lit scenes.

The opening ship alert and battle scenes were chosen by DTS years ago for their DTS demo discs as a highlighted section. The sounds of footsteps and scene atmospherics an the action battle sounds of cannonballs shrapnel gunshots etc. are an exceptional sonic 5.1 mix.

All should be wonderful on the Blu-ray version as the old DVD DTS mix was already pretty good.

Looking forward to this release.

Schils

05-05-08, 09:58 AM

As long as the detail and overall picture are superior to the DVD (which they apparently are), and then more importantly, theres no negatives like EE, DNR, compression signs, etc, then I'm going to be more than satisfied, not to mention the vastly superior audio...can't wait to find this one on a shelf.

shamus

05-05-08, 02:01 PM

robertc88

05-06-08, 08:56 AM

Wooooo hooooo!! Canceled one order and ordered my copy last Friday morning from another resource and the phone rep assured me it was available and ready for shipping. Didn't dream I'd get it yesterday but there it was when I got home.

I had a prior commitment for last night but my initial impression to tell the truth is very favorable. Right from the get go I knew I had something that was well worth the wait and price I paid. The opening I detected a better picture than on the SD DVD that I don't know how many times I have viewed. I made sure I focused on that because we all know what happens when the audio starts kicking into higher gear. Man oh man do we have an audio track 2D4! The detail is really remarkable and the dialogue is clear and clean as a whistle to boot. The bass is not boomy but tight as can be IMHO.

I watched the first 15 minutes full and needed to scan thereafter because of my commitment but what I watched and heard I know I have a SD DVD that will always have a top spot on my shelf but I probably will never go back to.

The stormy sea sequence starting in Chapter 14 is rough material most surely but I really believe the BD handles this as well as can be expected. Above and beyond that, Kosty was correct in his assumption that the dark ship interior, early morning and night battle scenes should show quite a bit more detail and they do.

I viewed and listened to what I had time for utilizing the Panny BD 30 running component to a Tosh 50" RPTV at 1080i. I used the Onkyo SR605 for DTS HD MA. Most have a better display than my older work horse but its what I lived with for the SD DVD in 480p watching this for years so wanted that to be my first go. I cannot wait to watch this on my Panny plasma!!

Those of you who preorder obviously didn't care about the offering price not waiting for a sale or BOGO. Rest assured I don't think you'll be disappointed for the buck spent. Those who are on the fence but are leaning towards picking it up from a B&M store at opening price, I don't feel there is anything to shy away from to be honest and I mostly certainly will not dissuade you from doing so! :)

robertc88

05-06-08, 12:28 PM

Thanks, Ralph, for your review. I cannot wait to get home from work to give this one another go on the better of my displays. Much appreciated.

robertc88

05-07-08, 08:47 AM

Watched last night using the Panny BD30 with Onkyo SR605 with DTS HD MA and got a pop at that mark. I had the volume at 50 on the Onkyo and I don't believe this was what folks call an audio "bomb" because it didn't give me a cause of concern for equipment damage really. One thing though is that I didn't have the sub on because of neighbors next to and below me in my complex. No other point in the movie did I hear this pop. I tried it again after the movie was over and got the same thing at that mark in the movie.

Other than that, this time I utilized my Panny plasma. I said before my SD DVD will remain on the shelf going forward and now I will not be watching with my Tosh 50" RPTV any longer also. Never enjoyed this movie so much. Pre viewing PQ concerns are understandable as this movie has difficult material in places, one is shelling out addditional money for BDs, and one wants to be cautious. Buy with confidence though IMHO and don't really worry about PQ concerns. I'd surely would let you know if I was disappointed! :)

Ralph Potts

05-07-08, 09:42 AM

Schils

05-07-08, 10:48 AM

robertc88

05-07-08, 11:11 AM

17 minutes 25 sec. was the only spot on the BD.

Nothing on the SD DVD. This DTS MA HD thingy is a different animal! :)

Schils

05-07-08, 11:51 AM

Thanks, looking forward to checking - hope that pop is minimal.

Flexx

05-07-08, 12:05 PM

The AQ was spectacular. Amongst the best I've heard. I continue to be amazed at DTS HD MA. Very lively sound field all around the room with terrific imaging and clarity. The cello/violin duets sounded simply wonderful. The Denon 4308 does a wonderful job of decoding DTS HD MA from my Pioneer 95 and processing the 5.1 sound into 7.1 with ProLogic IIx.

No knock against DTS HD MA, but M&C has one of the best sound mixes ever. The real credit goes to Richard King, Pal Massey, Doug Hemphill and crew (http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_master_commander_far/).

DM2006RI

05-07-08, 01:13 PM

No knock against DTS HD MA, but M&C has one of the best sound mixes ever. The real credit goes to Richard King, Pal Massey, Doug Hemphill and crew (http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_master_commander_far/).

Agreed. The transfer on the BD release is good -- maybe not great -- but the sound mix is as enveloping a design you'll ever hear at home. A must for audiophiles.

Frank Stein

05-07-08, 03:08 PM

No knock against DTS HD MA, but M&C has one of the best sound mixes ever. The real credit goes to Richard King, Pal Massey, Doug Hemphill and crew (http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_master_commander_far/).

Of course the credit goes to the sound guys.

I'm one of those that doesn't believe that all the lossless formats are exactly the same. So given the incredible sound mix for this movie, I'm glad that the best format, DTS HD MA, was chosen to present the sound.

RDarrylR

05-07-08, 10:46 PM

Well I finally got to experience this Blu-ray tonight. My review is pretty much the same as most that I have read. The PQ is just so-so and the AQ on the MA track is amazing. I have never seen the DVD so I can't compare to that but the PQ is not up there with the top catalog Blu-rays but rather middle of the road or below. It does still look good though in comparison to an average DVD.

The movie itself is pretty good IMO and it was nice to see it.

robertc88

05-08-08, 09:16 AM

^^^^^^^^^^

Being well acquainted with the single disc SD DVD, this BD is definitely a step up. What equipment did you use by the way while viewing?

RDarrylR

05-08-08, 09:26 AM

If you're asking me I have a PS3, Sony 910 receiver, 1080p 46" Aquos at about 9 feet viewing distance. I don't doubt it's better than the DVD version - I just have never seen the DVD. There are a lot of scenes below deck that look really good and a lot of the stuff on deck is where it isn't as good as many other similar aged titles.

robertc88

05-08-08, 09:41 AM

Ralph Potts

05-08-08, 01:49 PM

For those with both the PS3 and Panny BD30, I would be curious at opinions viewing this movie comparing results with each player. I couldn't get as thrilled watching it on my Tosh 50" RPTV at 1080i with the PS3 as I did with the Panny BD30 with same resolution. The latter player did that much better with detail and color. I didn't try the PS3 with my Panny plasma yet though.

I know the players are suppose to be fairly close with PQ but some have retired the PS3 in favor of the BD30 for watching BDs.

Greetings,

Robert, did you watch it using the BD-30/Panny plasma or the BD-30/Toshiba RPTV?

DavidHir

05-08-08, 01:57 PM

For those with both the PS3 and Panny BD30, I would be curious at opinions viewing this movie comparing results with each player. I couldn't get as thrilled watching it on my Tosh 50" RPTV at 1080i with the PS3 as I did with the Panny BD30 with same resolution. The latter player did that much better with detail and color. I didn't try the PS3 with my Panny plasma yet though.

I know the players are suppose to be fairly close with PQ but some have retired the PS3 in favor of the BD30 for watching BDs.

I used to have the PS3, but got rid of it because I found the BD30 to give me slightly better PQ at 1080p/24 on my SXRD (ISF'd 60A3000).

In addition, are you using component or HDMI with your Tosh? If you're using component, it's possible the BD30 has better DACs so there could be one or two factors at play.

robertc88

05-08-08, 02:06 PM

Greetings,

Robert, did you watch it using the BD-30/Panny plasma or the BD-30/Toshiba RPTV?

Both.

First time was with the BD30 and Tosh 50" RPTV mainly because that display is what I lived with for the SD DVD for many many years.

The BD-30 with the Panny plasma was the better of the two with the BD but it did look pretty good on the Tosh RPTV with that player also. Not so much though with the Tosh display and PS3. I still want to try the PS3 with my Panny display.

I really anxious to hear from other folks about their opinion of this film on BD. I'm rather surprised at least some other folks haven't gotten it yet considering how quick I got it after I ordered last Friday. Glad so far I have at least some others here who thought it looked pretty good so far. :)

BTW, did you get the audio pop with Panny BD30 at the time stamp I posted? I have the Onyko SR605.

meriadec

05-08-08, 02:47 PM

robertc88, Do you still experience the audio pop after upgrading your Panny BD30 to FW version 1.8 that came out this morning? Just curious. So as not to send this thread off track, you could comment on it in the BD FW 1.8 AVS thread. Much appreciated.

Mériadec

robertc88

05-08-08, 02:49 PM

In addition, are you using component or HDMI with your Tosh? If you're using component, it's possible the BD30 has better DACs so there could be one or two factors at play.[/QUOTE]

The Tosh 50" RPTV only allows component connection at 1080i best resoultion. No 720p for this display that I have.

The panny BD30 with my Panny plasma at 720p is better than that older Tosh display from what I noticed. Also the PQ with the Panny plasma at 1080i wasn't as good as 720p.

Schils

05-08-08, 02:58 PM

DavidHir

05-08-08, 03:06 PM

The Tosh 50" RPTV only allows component connection at 1080i best resoultion. No 720p for this display that I have.

The panny BD30 with my Panny plasma at 720p is better than that older Tosh display from what I noticed. Also the PQ with the Panny plasma at 1080i wasn't as good as 720p.

What I'm saying is the BD30 *might* do better over component video than the PS3.

robertc88

05-08-08, 03:29 PM

I still have to go BD30 and PS3 HDMI to my Panny display as well as PS3 to Panny display over component. Heck, I fiddled with the SD DVD for years now it's time to fiddle with the BD for best quality with my equipment.

Ralph Potts

05-08-08, 06:32 PM

Greetings,

BTW, did you get the audio pop with Panny BD30 at the time stamp I posted? I have the Onyko SR605.

Sorry Robert I have not. I have been spending my free time working on the Blu-ray Disc Reviews layout. I will try and get to it tonight.

Regards,

lgans316

05-08-08, 11:28 PM

No huge difference in PQ between the DVD vs BD versions of M&C and Trainspotting.

M&C

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews37/Master%20and%20Commander%20Far%20Side%20of%20the%20World/SD_HF7Y2092.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews37/Master%20and%20Commander%20Far%20Side%20of%20the%20World/HF7Y2109.jpg

Trainspotting

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews37/trainspotting%20blu-ray/SD_HF7Y1785.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews37/trainspotting%20blu-ray/HF7Y1805.jpg

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews37/trainspotting%20blu-ray/SD_HF7Y1788.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews37/trainspotting%20blu-ray/HF7Y1797.jpg

Gattaca

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews35/a%20gattaca%20blu-ray/1-r.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews35/a%20gattaca%20blu-ray/IMG_2785.jpg

Blood Diamond

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews31/a%20blood%20diamond/sub-sd.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews31/a%20blood%20diamond/subs-hd.jpg

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews31/a%20blood%20diamond/2-sd.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews31/a%20blood%20diamond/2-hd.jpg

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews31/a%20blood%20diamond/sd%20blood%20diamond%20.JPG
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews31/a%20blood%20diamond/hd%20blood%20diamond.jpg

robertc88

05-09-08, 08:42 AM

Lots of displays out there. Master and Commander is definitely a step up from the single disc SD DVD I have that was rated 4.5 for PQ. The difference was detected on both my Tosh and Panny plasma displays, the latter showing the bigger of the two. I'm sure some others will agree also after viewing. Is it a huge difference? Well that is all relative as what percentage of BDs are a huge difference???

I will not be watching the SD DVD any longer and will enjoy this BD on my theater going forward. The sound? It is reference all the way! :)

Time for me to move to Chronicles of Narnia which came yesterday. I'm confident many will agree the M&C BD is a winner. Many have much better displays and AVRs than I do. To be able to see it and hear it on some of those would be awesome!

JetJockey1

05-09-08, 09:02 AM

Pugnax555

05-09-08, 09:30 AM

Schils

05-09-08, 09:40 AM

LMAO, "pretty good"?????

Only one of the best films in the last 20 years
IMO.

+1

I'm anxious (and curious) to see if either of my fav sites for hidef reviews will do one for this release....been checking HDD and DVDTalk daily, still nothing - wan't to see what they have to say about it.

Xylon

05-09-08, 09:44 AM

RDarrylR

05-09-08, 09:52 AM

LMAO, "pretty good"?????

Only one of the best films in the last 20 years
IMO.

I don't have the same opinion but everyone has their tastes. It is a good film and I enjoyed watching it but there have been a good number of movies I have seen in the last year that I enjoyed more. I will look at buying M&C on Blu-ray if it goes on sale but for now I was happy with the rental.

lgans316

05-09-08, 09:52 AM

These are miniature version of Xylon's caps. I am pretty confident that the enlarged version is going to look quite similar.:D

RDarrylR

05-09-08, 10:06 AM

I just realized that I was right in being suprised to see this on the shelf for rent this week. I was there to rent something else and noticed M&C and grabbed it right away.

The release date is actually next week (May 13) but I was able to rent it this week. That is truly strange.

Also it seems that Amazon.com has pulled their listing but it still is showing up on DVD Empire and amazon.ca here in Canada.

Pugnax555

05-09-08, 10:13 AM

These are miniature version of Xylon's caps. I am pretty confident that the enlarged version is going to look quite similar.:D

Ahhh. Okay. Well, at least there are full-res uncompressed pictures around somewhere that we can go dig up if we want to.

robertc88

05-09-08, 01:28 PM

HTF review is up.

4.0 PQ
5.0 AQ

Would have been nice to say something about it versus the SD DVD but the reviewer never watched it.

shamus

05-09-08, 01:51 PM

Would have been nice to say something about it versus the SD DVD but the reviewer never watched it.

I was shocked too that Michael never saw this movie before... Im a little jealous as I would like to be able to go and see such a great movie for the first time!

Ralph Potts

05-09-08, 02:22 PM

robertc88

05-10-08, 12:05 PM

BandofBrothers

05-10-08, 01:20 PM

Is the UK version the same as the USA one?

(I am thinking of picking this up, and I live in the UK)

I seem to recall lots of posts & threads saying how bad it looked?:o

HDPeeT

05-10-08, 03:01 PM

This disc might be the one that forces me to buy a decent audio system after I purchase my plasma.

lgans316

05-10-08, 10:24 PM

Review is up on bluray.com.

4.5 PQ
5.0 AQ

Looks like Greg also thinks the BD is a winner just like me! My poor SD DVD will sit idle. :)

BTW, I'm not upgrading my FW on the Panny BD30 until I get more feedback on the audio pop I mentioned. Thanks, Ralph, for checking and I assume you didn't upgrade the FW on the BD30 before you tried it again. I may have a bad disc and I'm going to try to get ahold of another copy of the BD to try it with.

Chronicles of Narnia tomorrow night for me. I have a busy weekend so no time to watch it before that. I already know what to expect though with the stellar reviews I've read.

Personal liking of a movie sometimes end up in being rewarded with high scores. This is human instinct and I am pretty confident that the actual PQ won't be anywhere in the Tier-1 ~ top Tier-2 league. My copy should be arrive tomorrow. Let's see.:confused:

My only concern was whether M&C was worth the wait which ain't when it's reported to be minted from the D-Theater master with no extras being ported from the Collector's Edition.

dvdtalk's review looks to be perfect this time

Master and Commander is the sort of Blu-ray disc where the image quality can vary dramatically from one shot to the next. The levels of detail and clarity are at their most impressive in tight close-ups and more brightly-lit sequences, rendered as flawlessly as most anything I've watched in high-definition. When the camera eases back or moves below deck, though, much of that fine detail is softened out. There are a handful of individual shots -- the first glimpses of the Galapagos, for instance -- that'd easily be mistaken for upscaled standard definition. The cinematography is a perfect fit for the tone of the film but isn't the sort that leaps off the screen -- much of the movie is shot under the milky gray of an overcast sky or interiors cast in the faint, golden glow of candlelight. Despite being reinforced by robust black levels, there's little in the way of depth or dimensionality. Film grain is rarely intrusive, but in those scenes where it dominates the frame -- such as particularly foggy sequences -- it looks soft and smeared rather than the crisp granules I've come to expect.

Most -- if not all -- of this is clearly owed to the way Master and Commander was originally filmed and really shouldn't be considered a flaw with this Blu-ray release. Still, because the bulk of the film falls somewhere in between DVD and what I'd normally expect from a newly-minted Blu-ray disc, viewers should go in with reasonable expectations. Master and Commander certainly looks good in high definition, but its subdued visual style means it's not nearly as startling the way so many of Fox's Blu-ray discs have been. Also, this is reportedly the same master used for the D-Theater release four years ago, and I am curious if a more recent transfer would've resulted in a more impressive presentation.

Master and Commander is presented on Blu-ray at its theatrical aspect ratio of 2.39:1 and has been encoded using AVC, Fox's preferred next-gen codec.

David Barteaux

05-11-08, 12:50 AM

Personal liking of a movie sometimes end up in being rewarded with high scores. This is human instinct and I am pretty confident that the actual PQ won't be anywhere in the Tier-1 ~ top Tier-2 league. My copy should be arrive tomorrow. Let's see.:confused:

dvdtalk's review looks to be perfect this time

Just watched it and have to agree with dvdtalk's PQ review as well. They are spot on.

Audio is spectacular.

robertc88

05-12-08, 11:37 AM

I assume the size of the display is going to be an important part of varying opinions for the quality especially with this film. I only go as big as 50" on my Tosh RPTV I bought almost 8 years ago. My Panny plasma comes in at 37".

I await more opinions on the PQ.

Ralph Potts

05-12-08, 01:56 PM

Greetings,

My review of M&C runs along similar lines. I saw this film theatrically and from my recollection most of the elements present on the blu-ray disc appear to coincide with it.

Watching a film like this on smaller displays that are not 1080p capable could effect the outcome in terms of resolution. The difference won't be night and day but would probably be noticeable in side by side comparisons. Smaller screen sizes could make this harder to see also.

I was happy with M&C on blu-ray.:)

jayray

05-12-08, 06:26 PM

Just watched M&C and the video looked good on 106" screen and the sound was fantastic. Just upgraded my surround speakers to 4 Bipole PSBs and during the canon battles the surround effects are amazing. Close your eyes and you might forget where you are. Demo for sure:D

lgans316

05-12-08, 10:40 PM

Master & Commander

Recommendation: Tier-2 3/4. Despite the high bit rate encode the picture falls flat. Contrast and Black Levels fluctuate. Color palette is muted. Majority of the scenes are shot in foggy conditions. What more can you expect ? I have no idea how and why M&C was awarded Best Cinematography by the Academy.

Let's see how Universal who owns overseas distribution rights deliver M&C on Blu-ray.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2172/2485818825_62df9904c0_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3137/2486638228_15ae1c3010_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2194/2486637976_d12a404cfb_o.jpg

Cam Man

05-12-08, 11:54 PM

Sometimes it seems that some of the BD/HDDVD crowd around here is more interested in an image that pops with brilliant color and incredible detail than the movie itself. To be a good BD disk, the image simply has to be faithful to the original movie. Whether or not the viewer likes the original cinematography is another issue, not related to the quality of the image on the disk. You're right on throughout this thread, Frank. That said, I will have to see it (arrives tomorrow) on the big screen to pass judgement on the transfer and treatment to BD. I will be happy to trust the eye and cinematographic skills of DP Russel Boyd over any pundit opinions here. Take a look at this (wonderful) guy's list of credits on IMDB. The Academy (and all cinematographers) evaluate and critique cinematography with far more objective and subjective criteria than is commonly used here, but that's another subject and thread entirely.

Although faithful reproduction is every cinematographer's expectation, there is every reason for them to choose to maximize the benefits of the medium to which the film will be displayed. For instance, they may choose to emulate the digital intermediate rather than projected 35mm print for video release, reducing some less than ideal artifacts or weaknesses of the material. But that is their call, and we can only hope that what we see at home has benefited from this effort. Clearly, some are put through without much care. I'm hoping this is not one of them.

lgans316

05-13-08, 12:14 AM

mbird

05-13-08, 12:30 AM

Do you mean that the transfer wasn't to your expectations or you personally didn't like the cinematography?

lgans316

05-13-08, 12:48 AM

Both. IMO there was nothing amazing about the cinematography. The Galapagos and few chapters following it looked great but nothing eye candy. Perhaps the Academy did a mistake by awarding best cinematography to M&C which was similar to awarding best visual effects for GC instead of Transformers.

mbird

05-13-08, 01:18 AM

I'm going to have to disagree with you about the cinematography (I understand that it's all personal). The compositions and lighting were outstanding. The camera movements were very well done. Overall, I loved the aesthetics as it seemed to perfectly render what a life at sea would look like.

btw, I'm curious. Did you watch the DVD? Was there a noticeable step-up in video quality? Also, would there be a noticeable step-up in quality from the 768 kbs DTS track on the DVD to the 1.5 mbs DTS track (I only have optical audio out)?

Kroenen

05-13-08, 01:27 AM

You're right on throughout this thread, Frank. That said, I will have to see it (arrives tomorrow) on the big screen to pass judgement on the transfer and treatment to BD. I will be happy to trust the eye and cinematographic skills of DP Russel Boyd over any pundit opinions here. Take a look at this (wonderful) guy's list of credits on IMDB. The Academy (and all cinematographers) evaluate and critique cinematography with far more objective and subjective criteria than is commonly used here, but that's another subject and thread entirely.

Although faithful reproduction is every cinematographer's expectation, there is every reason for them to choose to maximize the benefits of the medium to which the film will be displayed. For instance, they may choose to emulate the digital intermediate rather than projected 35mm print for video release, reducing some less than ideal artifacts or weaknesses of the material. But that is their call, and we can only hope that what we see at home has benefited from this effort. Clearly, some are put through without much care. I'm hoping this is not one of them.

It's great to see you posting in the BD section Cam Man.

Please post your thoughts when you have seen the BD version. You are the only one that I've seen posting thus far that works on films in Hollywood and has intimate knowledge of cinematography. So your educated opinion matters.

BTW when are we going to get Frailty on Blu-ray? :cool:

shamus

05-13-08, 01:33 AM

It's great to see you posting in the BD section Cam Man.

Please post your thoughts when you have seen the BD version. You are the only one that I've seen posting thus far that works on films in Hollywood and has intimate knowledge of cinematography. So your educated opinion matters.

BTW when are we going to get Frailty on Blu-ray? :cool:

Cam Man did the cinematography on Frailty??? I love that movie...

Kroenen

05-13-08, 01:42 AM

Cam Man did the cinematography on Frailty??? I love that movie...

Yeah I love that film as well.

Cam Man was a camera operator on Frailty. Last year he posted a great anecdote of his experience on the set with the Director (Bill Paxton).

lgans316

05-13-08, 01:44 AM

I have zero concerns with the SQ of M&C. It's not even a topic of discussion.

My concern is two fold mbird

1) Why did FOX make us wait so long ? They have delivered a half baked product to us by not porting the extras from Collector's edition. These kind of movies needs to be watched with extras and audio commentary.

2) The step-up in video quality is only so and so in comparison to DVD deluxe edition released by Universal who own the distribution rights for M&C in Japan.

I agree that the lighting and the compositions were outstanding but from a pure eye candy perspective and as per Blu-ray standard the PQ falls flat. I neither blame the cinematographer nor the DoP but I blame FOX for not trying to do some kind of subtle polishing/processing to make the picture shine a little bit more on Blu-ray.

Cam Man

05-13-08, 01:47 AM

Do you mean that the transfer wasn't to your expectations or you personally didn't like the cinematography? I know your question is not intended for me, but you bring up a good point. There are many factors of "the transfer" that can affect technical PQ (EE, compression artifacts, etc) and our subjective judgment of "PQ." They can be small, but are cummulative.
If Blu-ray wants to succeed Studios better under consumer sentiments and give us something that looks 5-6 times better than the DVD editions. With all due respect, this is just naivete and ignorance of production, post-production, and release technologies/capabilities, and the process of narrative filmmaking...presuming you expect this possible for every release. There are many releases that should be better than they are. There are many that are the best they can be, but for various idiocyncratic reasons, are not eye poppers. Let's be realistic; if we shot every exterior scene in bright sunlight, blasting a light in the actor's eye to give you a twinkle to see, and used a polarizing filter to increase the contrast, you'd be happy with all the contrast of density and color that spectral light renders. You'd call it "wow." But shooting every scene like that would just be silly, unrealistic, and eventually boring. We photograph movies to render and support the appropriate elements and mood of the story/scene. If that's in a fog rather than bright beautiful sunlight, then so be it.

Much effort in pre-production goes into deciding the visual design of the film. Based on those creative decisions, the production designer will choose colors and textures for sets and locations that support those. The cinematographer will test different film stocks and lab/post techniques (or digital capture parameters) to find the recipe that will render their goals. He will shoot to render that consistently, and do his best to protect it in the transfer to video. That is far more important and appropriate than making sure every shot has the "wow" you speak of. It is entirely possible that some superbly executed photographic treatments and creative design decisions that are absolutely appropriate to the movie/scene may not be instantly perceivable as superior on BD. That's just the way it is. If it is quality work that supports the story/scene, and the transfer is good, then it is exactly as it should be.

Finally, unless we are watching and comparing on a calibrated large projection screen (40+ degrees horizontal viewing angle), then we are comparing apples and oranges. There may be very noticable differences on that size screen that were quite unnoticable on a direct view display even if viewed up close.

I'll take a quick look at a handful of scenes of different types tomorrow night and give you my two bits worth, although I didn't work on M&C (damn it :)). That would have been quite the adventure. I'll probably go over to the Twister thread and post some there about that experience.

I'm speaking at the University of Arizona film department in a continuing honorarium for cinematography...based on Frailty. They pre-screened the film for the first event. Kind of fun to give back.

Enough soap box from me :rolleyes:

mbird

05-13-08, 01:51 AM

I have zero concerns with the SQ of M&C. It's not even a topic of discussion.Well, needless to say. :D

1) Why did FOX make us wait so long ? They have delivered a half baked product to us by not porting the extras from Collector's edition. These kind of movies needs to be watched with extras and audio commentary.I'm also confounded by Fox's decisions.

2) The step-up in video quality is only so and so in comparison to DVD deluxe edition released by Universal who own the distribution rights for M&C in Japan.That's unfortunate.

I agree that the lighting and the compositions were outstanding but from a pure eye candy perspective and as per Blu-ray standard the PQ falls flat. I neither blame the cinematographer nor the DoP but I blame FOX for not trying to do some kind of subtle polishing/processing to make the picture shine a little bit more on Blu-ray.I disagree about the eye candy aspect as I think that the film was gorgeous-looking; our tastes on that aspect are different. As for your statement on processing the film, I'm personally glad that they didn't appear to use any. But I really shouldn't make any more statements about the Blu-ray's PQ until I see it for myself.

I know your question is not intended for me, but you bring up a good point. There are many factors of "the transfer" that can affect technical PQ (EE, compression artifacts, etc) and our subjective judgment of "PQ." They can be small, but are cummulative.Oh no worries, I'm glad you added your perspective on this.

Cam Man

05-13-08, 01:52 AM

BTW when are we going to get Frailty on Blu-ray? That's a good question. I'd love to see it on BD, but I think that movie is a good one to use in the discussion in this thread. The Frailty DVD PQ is extremely good and faithful. I would expect an improvement in resolution on a big screen, but otherwise, not much improvement.

Cheers

Kroenen

05-13-08, 02:05 AM

That's a good question. I'd love to see it on BD, but I think that movie is a good one to use in the discussion in this thread. The Frailty DVD PQ is extremely good and faithful. I would expect an improvement in resolution on a big screen, but otherwise, not much improvement.

Cheers

I noticed that the last release was in 2002. So hopefully, if and when, they remaster the film, Mr. Paxton will be able to supervise that. Hopefully he'll insist on lossless audio too. :D

lgans316

05-13-08, 02:16 AM

Cam Man,

I knew about you since your post on Dante's Peak and I am happy to say that I am a proud owner of the movie on HD DVD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=875563
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11039583#post11039583

I am aware from experts like you that Photography and Lighting conditions plays a pivotal role in overall picture quality. From a PQ perspective M&C falls short of being a demo material.

Long time back when Ocean's 12 and 13 were bashed for their PQ I tried to convince many that the picture remained faithful to the director's intent which many vehemently objected. Being a huge fan of Steven Soderbergh and his unique filming style I was terribly disappointed with the review ratings these flicks received though they actually looked better to me.

Now when I got a chance to bounce back on the PQ of M&C many seem to object it because they like the movie. A minor difference or step up in PQ is acceptable on old titles but not on the newer ones.

FOX could have gone few extra miles by performing some subtle picture processing adjustments. I am not asking them to remove the Fog but they could have stepped up the colors, contrast and black levels a bit that could have resulted in a slightly better PQ.

Cam Man

05-13-08, 02:17 AM

I noticed that the last release was in 2002. So hopefully, if and when, they remaster the film, Mr. Paxton will be able to supervise that. Hopefully he'll insist on lossless audio too. :D Indeed!

Cam Man

05-13-08, 02:35 AM

...but they could have stepped up the colors, contrast and black levels a bit that could have resulted in a slightly better PQ. And there lies the rub. We know that fits you preferences...and may fit mine when I see it. But presuming they decided that it was just as they intended and delivered it as you see it, then they are correct...and that is why there are user adjustments on our displays. ;) Dial in your PQ the way you like it, then return to your calibrated settings afterwards.

robertc88

05-13-08, 08:50 AM

There is no questioning whatsoever from my point of viewing after watching this on two different displays with two different players that I've listed earlier for 4 total viewings of this flick and then watching parts of the movie, I'd rather have this BD over my single disc SD DVD.

My call is that this isn't 3.0 PQ, nor did other reviewers see it that way! I would have liked to been in that one review sites' quarters while they were watching to see how far they sat, what the room viewing conditions were, and what I felt about that display overall.

robertc88

05-13-08, 08:55 AM

And there lies the rub. We know that fits you preferences...and may fit mine when I see it. But presuming they decided that it was just as they intended and delivered it as you see it, then they are correct...and that is why there are user adjustments on our displays. ;) Dial in your PQ the way you like it, then return to your calibrated settings
afterwards.

And that is what I had done with the SD DVD on various players and displays that I have viewed that on, adjusting the PQ somewhat accordingly. Why would one assume though that calibrated settings would be best for every single movie?

lgans316

05-13-08, 08:57 AM

That's why I gave 3 ~ 4.25/5 due to the dramatic fluctuation in PQ.

desmond212

05-13-08, 12:42 PM

Amazon hasn't shipped my copy and it is showing order status as "Items Not Yet Shipped". Anyone get their copy?

robertc88

05-13-08, 01:26 PM

JaylisJayP

05-13-08, 01:39 PM

Looks like there may be some problems with B&M stores actually having it today also for release. I wasn't waiting for more delays. When I found a place that had it in stock ready to ship, I pulled the trigger.

Just did a test on Bestbuy.com and NONE of the 6 stores in my area have this in. Weird. Not that I'd spend $34.99 on it at Best Buy anyway.

Schils

05-13-08, 02:12 PM

My copy showed today, whew! Very happy with the buy, by far the best available version of this awesome title! The PQ is clean and free of specs and scratches, zero EE, etc, there are definitely moments that grab your attention as better than others and look really sharp, "near" pop level, but not quite, but as mentioned in all the reviews, thats clearly not the look they were going for with this movie. The sound is as hyped, outta this world, only one VERY major complaint, actually a warning is in order if it hasn't been given elsewhere alreay - I forgot what a previous poster mentioned in this thread, but there is an ungodly ugly POP at approx 17:24, I mean downright harmful sounding if your rig is cranked - I hope like hell its something that can be fixed (once its determined where/which piece of gear may be causing it), I can't imagine having to remember to turn down the volume or FF past that spot to avoid the EFFIN' BLAST, pffft.

BD30 (FW 1.8) > Onkyo 605 > Sammy 6187SAX...all via hdmi.

BTW, for anyone thats not concerned about the price, Target has it in stock (B&M).

toxic_avenger

05-13-08, 02:28 PM

Amazon hasn't shipped my copy and it is showing order status as "Items Not Yet Shipped". Anyone get their copy?

Mine hasn't been shipped yet either:mad:

robertc88

05-13-08, 02:51 PM

plissken99

05-13-08, 02:59 PM

Mine now says shipping soon.

shamus

05-13-08, 03:28 PM

shamus

05-13-08, 03:29 PM

Just did a test on Bestbuy.com and NONE of the 6 stores in my area have this in. Weird. Not that I'd spend $34.99 on it at Best Buy anyway.

Target has it!

mbird

05-13-08, 03:32 PM

Schils

That's my assessment of the PQ pretty much and I'm quite satisfied with it over the SD DVD for no guessing how many times I watched it over the last few years. For best results, watch in a completely dark room if possible. At least some spots will show eye candy with reasonable pop! :)

So I guess it didn't matter that I didn't update the FW on the Panny BD30 as I viewed with 1.6. My rig was not cranked and it comes at a tranquil point in the movie, thank goodness. Ralph stated he did not encounter the pop though and I'm pretty sure he used that Panny player. It remains to be seen if there are some bad copies out there with this pop, its the Panny, or the Onkyo which is the same AVR I have also.Hey robertc88, I'm curious which Panny plasma you have. My family has the TH-42PX50u.

Also, I'm really curious to see how the blu-ray improves the scene where Blakeney is on the hammock and saying "not through the nose" (for shadow detail and flesh tones) and also the scene when Maturin reaches the top of the hill in the Galapagos and hears the beetle (for overall detail). Maybe Xylon could provide screenshots. :)

badboi

05-13-08, 03:47 PM

Got my copy today, and all I can say is that it is worth every penny. Sound is amazing and the video is miles ahead of the SD DVD I have. FWIW, I have no loud pops on the disc, but I'm using 5.1 analog on a Sammy 1000 (amazingly it was able to read this disc but took about 2.5 minutes to finally load). If you like the movie, it's worth the admission price.

robertc88

05-13-08, 03:53 PM

^^^^

Worth every penny? I thought so and on more than one display using different players. I'm glad at least some folks are pleased so far. Full sail ahead but I do need to reconcile the audio problem asap as I thought it may be the Onkyo instead of the Panny player because Ralph had no pop.

mbird,

I have a 37" Panny plasma display. I don't recall the model # off the top. I'll let you know and will check those specific scenes you described in the movie regarding the quality!

badboi

05-13-08, 03:59 PM

The audio issue is strange on some of these newer titles, but so far I haven't had any issues. But like I said, I'm using 5.1 analog and not HDMI for audio so I guess that's why. Hope it does get worked out for you guys with these receivers and HDMI connections.

And yes, to me, the Blu ray version is worth every penny I paid. You won't mistake it for Apocalypto or Pirates of the Caribbean, but it is miles ahead of the SD disc. Looked very good on my Sony SXRD. Sound is amazing and seems to come from everywhere (using Klipsch RB75 speakers x4, RC64 center and HSU sub). Enjoy yours when you get it.

calvin c

05-13-08, 05:11 PM

Mine now says shipping soon.

Mine also says "shipping soon" which means either today or tomorrow it will go out.

Seems like this is limited qty release for some reason. None of the Best Buys have them in my area either.

Skid71

05-13-08, 06:49 PM

Received the "Item has shipped" email from amazon.

Looking forward to finally watching this movie. Haven't seen it before. I've updated the DSP's on my Onk705. Will be interested in checking the 17:24 mark for what may be the DTS-HD-MA bomb.

Skid

Schils

05-13-08, 06:54 PM

Its your Onkyo... try this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620

Thanks for this! Was a lot to digest quickly in that thread, but I'm happy to say the DSP update worked perfectly! Whew!!! Took a while, first had to "find" a good version of Nero (and virus free ;)) to burn the WAV - stinking burn program in XP sucks, anyway, found the proper '605' file, burned it, followed the simple steps to update and all is P-E-R-F-E-C-T...checked the 17:24 mark and NO MORE BOMB IN DTS HDMA, tis gone! :D

Now, heading back out to sea...

md1953

05-13-08, 07:06 PM

Damn...I placed my order with Amazon on Sept 7, 2007......still not shipped....sigh.

grubavs

05-13-08, 08:47 PM

Just watched my copy from Netflix (arrived today). WOW! I loved this movie in SD and with DTS, but in BD and DTS-HD MA it's absolutely unbelievable! I'm buying a copy immediately. Sent the Netflix copy back for the next lucky person...

JaylisJayP

05-13-08, 08:55 PM

Frank Stein

05-13-08, 09:05 PM

For judging BLU-RAY PQ faithful reproduction of the theatrical presentation doesn't seem to be sufficient. The PQ on Ocean's 12 and 13 were true to the director's intention but many didn't like it and was bashed by reviewers and videophiles. We are talking Blu-ray and many expect the presentation to be the HOLY GRAIL. If Blu-ray wants to succeed Studios better under consumer sentiments and give us something that looks 5-6 times better than the DVD editions. Unfortunately M&C doesn't fair well in the picture department no matter how good the cinematographer was. Simply put the WOW factor is missing.

Frankly, I think you, and others, have completely lost sight of the reason for and purpose of high definition.

And this completely ridiculous "WOW" factor. The idiots that created the irrational concept, along with the "window" effect have gone a long way to hurt the high definition movement. Your post so clearly demonstrates this.

The WOW factor?????? The last thing I want is for every HD movie (whether broadcast on HBO or on BD) to look like the VISA HD commercial or a commercial for a cruise to the Bahamas.

There is simply no way that anyone who loves and appreciates movies would feel the way you do. Your comments clearly indicate a complete lack of interest in the art of movie making and cinematography. Have you even been on the ocean in a sailboat during a storm? Obviously not. I have. There were no eye popping colors. There was no eye candy. There were large pale blue waves. The sky was a murky gray. It didn't look like your concept of high definition and it didn't look like a HD video travelogue.

I've seen people decide on whether to get a BD movie simply based upon how someone else rates it's PQ Tier level. I've seen people crap on a movie becasue HD Digest gives a 4/5 PQ, even though the reviewer has stated that a 4 out of 5 still means excellent PQ.

My apologies for being harsh. But you opened the door with some opinions that I believe have such a lack of foundational authenticity as to give those opinions very little credibility.

Thankfully, most people, even Joe6Pack, expect a movie to look like a movie, not a box of M&Ms.

Frank Stein

05-13-08, 09:08 PM

I was in Target today and saw it. $34.99.

Forget that. There's nothing any blu-ray can offer that would make me spend $37 after tax on a movie.

Terrific.

Now if only there was a thread that you guys could post your monetary concerns and leave this thread for discussion of the movie. I really don't want to read about people's financial difficulties in this thread. And for the record, let me tell Fox that I have no problems paying the price they ask for a well engineered BD movie.

badboi

05-13-08, 09:11 PM

^^^^^^
Thank you for putting it so well. Totally agree. So tired of all these people who expect every movie to look like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with tons of extras and other nonsense packed on, and if it's not included, get their knickers in a terrible twist.

JaylisJayP

05-13-08, 09:34 PM

Terrific.

Now if only there was a thread that you guys could post your monetary concerns and leave this thread for discussion of the movie. I really don't want to read about people's financial difficulties in this thread. And for the record, let me tell Fox that I have no problems paying the price they ask for a well engineered BD movie.

winner of the most hypocritical post of the day. congrats.

JohnGZ28

05-13-08, 09:46 PM

I was in Target today and saw it. $34.99.

Forget that. There's nothing any blu-ray can offer that would make me spend $37 after tax on a movie.

I'll be patient and wait 3 weeks and get it for $20 somewhere, guaranteed.

Winner of the whine and cheese post of the day...congrats pick up your prize at your local Piggly Wiggly. :D:D

badboi

05-13-08, 09:49 PM

Winner of the whine and cheese post of the day...congrats pick up your prize at your local Piggly Wiggly. :D:D

Hey, I resent that. I like the Piggly Wiggly. :) They have the best selection of lunch meats and tater chips in town. Don't know about that fancy stuff like whine and cheese, but they do have that Cheeze Whiz in a can though and a good selection of Pabst and Budweisers.

BStecke

05-13-08, 09:51 PM

Frankly, I think you, and others, have completely lost sight of the reason for and purpose of high definition.

And this completely ridiculous "WOW" factor. The idiots that created the irrational concept, along with the "window" effect have gone a long way to hurt the high definition movement. Your post so clearly demonstrates this.

The WOW factor?????? The last thing I want is for every HD movie (whether broadcast on HBO or on BD) to look like the VISA HD commercial or a commercial for a cruise to the Bahamas.

There is simply no way that anyone who loves and appreciates movies would feel the way you do. Your comments clearly indicate a complete lack of interest in the art of movie making and cinematography. Have you even been on the ocean in a sailboat during a storm? Obviously not. I have. There were no eye popping colors. There was no eye candy. There were large pale blue waves. The sky was a murky gray. It didn't look like your concept of high definition and it didn't look like a HD video travelogue.

I've seen people decide on whether to get a BD movie simply based upon how someone else rates it's PQ Tier level. I've seen people crap on a movie becasue HD Digest gives a 4/5 PQ, even though the reviewer has stated that a 4 out of 5 still means excellent PQ.

My apologies for being harsh. But you opened the door with some opinions that I believe have such a lack of foundational authenticity as to give those opinions very little credibility.

Thankfully, most people, even Joe6Pack, expect a movie to look like a movie, not a box of M&Ms.

Don't mind him . . . he has nothing good to say about anything.

lgans316

05-13-08, 10:42 PM

Challenge the post. Not the poster.

My PQ evaluation was based upon comparison to other good to excellent looking Blu-rays. I gave a score of 3 ~ 4.25/5 which I think is quite generous. As I said the PQ varies dramatically and looks marginally better than the Japan Deluxe edition.

If you don't care about judgment just leave it. No need to take it personally and launch an attack.

My primary point of concern was the missing extras from Collector's Edition. Everyone knows that FOX had repeatedly bumped the release of M&C and for the long wait they could have included the good film extras.

Let's see where M&C is getting placed in the Tier thread.

BStecke

05-13-08, 11:02 PM

I'm actually challenging most of your posts at once, since they're all basically the same thing.

For judging BLU-RAY PQ faithful reproduction of the theatrical presentation doesn't seem to be sufficient. The PQ on Ocean's 12 and 13 were true to the director's intention but many didn't like it and was bashed by reviewers and videophiles. We are talking Blu-ray and many expect the presentation to be the HOLY GRAIL. If Blu-ray wants to succeed Studios better under consumer sentiments and give us something that looks 5-6 times better than the DVD editions. Unfortunately M&C doesn't fair well in the picture department no matter how good the cinematographer was. Simply put the WOW factor is missing.

By your rationale, M&C is a poor quality title, not because it looks how it's supposed to look, but because you personally don't like the way it was filmed, and therefore think that this is somehow a fault of the studio and a deficiency of the format. Obviously this is a poor argument, and you've bashed it needlessly (like many other things). You're judging the quality of the disc based on your own personal criteria of what a Blu-ray Disc should be, rather than the way the film itself is meant to be presented. That's your problem, not the studios. Maybe you should stick with stuff like Planet Earth and animation is "pop" is all you look for.

lgans316

05-13-08, 11:08 PM

May I know what's wrong with my expectations ?

Blu-ray promises 5-6 times better picture quality than DVD. In case of M&C it's not.
There is no doubt that the Blu-ray looks better than the DVD but ultimately it lacks the HD pop that is present in other titles.
You can argue that M&C was not supposed to look that way and won't have the window effect.

In terms of how faithful it was to the theatrical presentation - yes M&C looked faithful.
In terms of absolute PQ this one falls flat.

You are still not understanding my primary point of concern which is the missing extras from Collector's Edition. Did we all wait so long to see a major release with no actual film extras ?

Also may I know what's wrong with my 3 ~ 4.25/5 score ?

BStecke

05-13-08, 11:12 PM

I don't really care about extras, or your view of them. What I'm more interested in is the fact that you're, for some reason, expecting something in the PQ that doesn't exist in the first place. Some movies don't "pop" because they're not supposed to. Blu-ray is meant to recreate the way the film master looks, not jack up the picture so everything looks the same.

lgans316

05-13-08, 11:14 PM

Now I understood your expectations.

You don't care about extras even when there is enough free space left on the Blu-ray and when extras are already available in the special/collector's edition DVDs ?

Here's is my missing extras analysis

************************************************************
Legend: Title : Free Space

Cast Away : 2.5 GB (All of the documentary materials from the two-disc DVD edition are absent, making this one skinny Blu-ray release)

Predator : 3.7 GB (zero extras)
Commando : 2 GB (zero extras)
Ronin: 1.3 GB (zero extras)
Kingdom of Heaven: 5.6 GB (zero extras)
Robocop: 2.7 GB (zero extras)

ID4: 6.3 GB (Theatrical cut and missing the film extras)
Live Free or Die Hard : 4.2 GB (Theatrical cut)

Day After Tomorrow : 12.3 GB (The studio has ported over some of the extras that appeared on the previous two-disc standard-def DVD special edition, but much is gone)
I,Robot: 8.1 GB (Instead of packing in all 4 hours of featurettes that appeared on the 2005 2-disc Collector's Edition DVD, Fox has trimmed down the runtime and even left an entire documentary on the cutting room floor. Approximately 240 minutes of bonus material has been reduced to 150 minutes -- instead of issuing a 2-disc BD set, Fox has elected to discard an hour and a half of behind-the-scenes information. Unbelievable.)

Fantastic Four: 4.5 GB (Theatrical cut - 'Fantastic Four' hit standard-def DVD flush with extras, but perhaps due to Fox using a BD-25 and MPEG-2 compression on this Blu-ray release, hardly any of those goodies have been carried over.)

Speed: 1.1 GB (BD25)

Mr and Mrs Smith: 16.1 GB

Master and Commander: ?? (No extras ported from Collector's Edition)

Man on Fire: ??? ('Man on Fire' was first released on DVD in 2004 and included two exceptional commentaries. A Collector's Edition DVD was released in 2005 and featured a feature length documentary, featurettes, deleted scenes, and more. So how many of these features have been ported to the Blu-ray edition of the film? Zero)

Ice Age: 7 GB (BD25 - missing a huge collection of extras that appeared on the original 2002 DVD and the 2006 Super Cool Edition DVD)

Butch Cassidy: ??? (Originally released in a lavish, two-disc standard DVD edition back in 2000, 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' comes to Blu-ray with about half of those same extras intact)

**********************************************************

SanDiegoinHD

05-13-08, 11:18 PM

http://www.sounds-of-schils.com/music/htpics/No_Nose.png

I'm kinda tired of this kid being such a wimp. I mean, I have been through what he has. Three times! :D

Those are nice pics. This is definitely one movie that will be worth every penny. Glad to see they have them at Target. I went by B.B. and of course they did not have it.

If it wasn't already past 10pm I would pick this sucker up tonight. Will do for sure tomorrow.

BStecke

05-13-08, 11:18 PM

I don't watch extras, save a VERY rare set of flicks. As long as the PQ/AQ are as they're supposed to be, everything else, to me, is superfluous. I understand some people dig extras, which is cool, and if you want to be pissed about them not being included, that's cool. But saying the release is poor because the PQ doesn't live up to your standard, even though it is the way it's supposed to be presented, is irresponsible.

Dave Mack

05-13-08, 11:36 PM

Gotta agree with lgans about the extras. For this price for a catalog title they should be included.

Cam Man

05-14-08, 01:37 AM

I promised last night that I would take a good look at M&C for PQ. I watched a number of scenes in varying lighting, etc. I also took a look at DVD on the same screen.

The good news is that I think that the BD is fairly faithful to the original 35 anamorphic. It is about as good as it can get. That said, I must say that I am of the opinion that the original materials are not the most pristine. I know it sounds like heresey from me, but I think that there are several photographic anomolies that render this less than nominal for 35 anamorphic and BD. I have little doubt that this film was shot with the Panavision C-series primes and anamorphic zooms. However you cut it, these are not terribly sharp lenses by today's standards, and the film looks it. I would have some of the same criticism for Twister as we used the same lenses on that. There are also some shots that clearly missed the exposure and suffer from grain.

There have been some pretty impressive improvements in lens technology since this movie was made. The Panavision Primo Anamorphics would have rendered much better images. The new G-series primes are just coming on line, too. The Hawk anamorphics are superb, too. Spherical lenses used for Super 35 2.40 releases (Casino Royale, Harry Potter, Live Free or Die Hard etc) are superb. So maybe we have to surrender to a bit of imperfection. Interestingly, Blade Runner used the same lenses, but its noir low key lighting maybe makes it look better.

I still found that M&C on BD was highly believable and enjoyable as a virtual 35mm experience on my big screen. I will absolutely watch this and enjoy it very much.

I don't keep up with the tier system, but the other films I mentioned above have rendered superior BD images IMO.

BTW, just for reference, I use an RS1 with customized UH380, Lumangen VP, 122" SMX 2.40 screen, and PS3. White reference luminance calibrated to 16ftL. HVA is 42 degrees.

Cheers

lgans316

05-14-08, 01:50 AM

Thanks Cam Man for your insightful comments.

1) Do you think there could be more room for improvements if the original materials were in pristine shape ?

2) Do you think some post processing / clean-up of the original materials could have produced a slightly better picture ?

I am putting forth these questions because you said "maybe we have to surrender to a bit of imperfection. Interestingly, Blade Runner used the same lenses"

mbird

05-14-08, 01:52 AM

Thanks for sharing your perspective, Cam Man. It's interesting to hear, being a photographer and film buff myself, how lens technology has changed in little more than half a decade. One shot that always seemed grainier than it should be (maybe it was mostly natural lighting? It seemed to be shot in the early morning) was this telephoto lens shot of the Crowe and Boyd spotting the Acheron. It's an interesting approach and I'm not sure why the cinematographer decided to shoot it this way.

desmond212

05-14-08, 02:02 AM

blade runner used smoke/weather condition to cover for lack of detail as well as flat models.

Cam Man

05-14-08, 02:06 AM

1) Do you think there could be more room for improvements if the original materials were in pristine shape ?

2) Do you think some post processing / clean-up of the original materials could have produced a slightly better picture ? I don't think so. I think the originals are in pristine shape (not deteriated), but what we are seeing is as good as it was captured. We can't improve that significantly...at least not with regards to resolution. I haven't watched the behind the scenes to know how much of the battle scenes are cg, but sometimes a film's resolution is teched down to match the best the cg scenes could render. I think scene to scene corrections could possibly render some minor improvements, but I'm not sure they would be significant. Too bad.

Two other favorites of mine that are yet to come to BD that are shot anamorphic are Dances with Wolves and The Thomas Crown Affair. I think they are top notch original pieces of photography, so there's no excuse to not have beautiful images on BD...someday.

lgans316

05-14-08, 02:09 AM

Thanks Cam Man.

Friends, I won't talk about the PQ of M&C on this thread anymore. Time to shut up and enjoy the fun.:D

Cam Man

05-14-08, 02:16 AM

blade runner used smoke/weather condition to cover for lack of detail as well as flat models. True. And smoke can and is used often to reduce contrast or increase it as desired. Evenly back lit smoke will obviously reduce contrast. Put instead a shaft of back light through it, and you have a very contrasty look...with the same smoke. Rain does similar things, but also gives us wet surfaces which reflect other points of light increasing apparent contrast. Blade Runner used about every trick in the book. Another scene that uses smoke/dust and light beautifully is in POTC/Black Pearl in the sword fight in the black smith shop.

lgans316

05-14-08, 02:21 AM

How about Hitman ? Most of the indoor scenes are smoke filled.:D

Schils

05-14-08, 06:08 AM

Those are nice pics. This is definitely one movie that will be worth every penny. Glad to see they have them at Target. I went by B.B. and of course they did not have it.

Thanks. I agree, was worth it, a bit pricey, but if you're like me and don't buy garbage and only purchase a handful of primo movies, its no biggie, plus, I'm definitely not an 'extras' man, could care less!

A buddy of mine that works at a BB told me they were not carrying it ATM because the powers that be at BB got tired of all the delays/postponements and basically said "EF it, cancel it for now, we'll carry it later when we know FOX has actually released it."

m1fuller68

05-14-08, 06:17 AM

Just received an email that amazon delayed my copy of M&C by a week. Happen to anyone else? Wierd....:confused:

toxic_avenger

05-14-08, 06:53 AM

Just received an email that amazon delayed my copy of M&C by a week. Happen to anyone else? Wierd....:confused:

Yep now I won't get it until the 20th or 21st:(

lgans316

05-14-08, 07:37 AM

Those who can afford to spend a few $$ more can try ordering M&C from play-asia.com. I have a $5 coupon that can be applied on orders worth more than $50. Please PM me to get the coupon code if you are interested.

patrick99

05-14-08, 07:49 AM

Just received an email that amazon delayed my copy of M&C by a week. Happen to anyone else? Wierd....:confused:

Same here. :mad:

TwinTurboJosh

05-14-08, 08:06 AM

Same here. :mad:

Ditto. So much for Prime.

T-smith

05-14-08, 08:11 AM

Ditto. So much for Prime.

it has nothing to do with Prime

davide

05-14-08, 09:15 AM

Technical spec's for the movie were:

Panavision Platinum Panaflex
Super35mm 2:35:1

Film stock - Eastman EXR 200T 593 (exteriors) Eastman EXR 500T 5279 (Night and Interiors) less saturated,for the muted look.

Camera 'A' Hand/held -Don Reddy,
Camera 'B' Steadicam 75mm lens - Harry Garvin
Hydroflex undewater housing bags used for the camera's
Technocrane with Cooke Panazoom 20-100mm,and a 11:1 primo zoom
Three-axis libra head.

Panavision prime lenses,and the Primo 11:1 zoom lens.The 5:1 Panavised Cooke Zoom
filters series 9 81EF

Link to to some of the sfx
http://www.cafefx.com/cafefx/html/cafefx.html and then gallery and features and scroll

TwinTurboJosh

05-14-08, 09:18 AM

it has nothing to do with Prime

I know that. But the main reason I have Prime is so that I can get films by the weekend, which I usually would not with standard Amazon shipping.

BStecke

05-14-08, 09:53 AM

If anybody doesn't want to wait for their Amazon order and you've got a Movie Stop, the ones around here had a few copies each @ 29.99.

Cam Man

05-14-08, 09:55 AM

Technical spec's for the movie were:

Panavision Platinum Panaflex
Super35mm 2:35:1

Film stock - Eastman EXR 200T 593 (exteriors) Eastman EXR 500T 5279 (Night and Interiors) less saturated,for the muted look.

Camera 'A' Hand/held -Don Reddy,
Camera 'B' Steadicam 75mm lens - Harry Garvin
Hydroflex undewater housing bags used for the camera's
Technocrane with Cooke Panazoom 20-100mm,and a 11:1 primo zoom
Three-axis libra head.

Panavision prime lenses,and the Primo 11:1 zoom lens.The 5:1 Panavised Cooke ZoomThanks for that info, David. The significance of what is provided here is that it was not shot anamorphic. The lenses used are top notch, so how do we account for the apparent reduced resolution compared to other Super 35 to 2.40 features that have been mentioned? I don't have a ready answer, but would like to hear from anyone who knows.

Otter0911

05-14-08, 09:56 AM

Just received an email that amazon delayed my copy of M&C by a week. Happen to anyone else? Wierd....:confused:

I feel lucky then! My copy is on the UPS truck as I type:)
waiting for that special knock on the door................

desmond212

05-14-08, 10:57 AM

Just received an email that amazon delayed my copy of M&C by a week. Happen to anyone else? Wierd....:confused:

email a complaint to amazon and see if they will give you partial refund or upgraded shipping.

Dave Mack

05-14-08, 10:59 AM

Thanks for that info, David. The significance of what is provided here is that it was not shot anamorphic. The lenses used are top notch, so how do we account for the apparent reduced resolution compared to other Super 35 to 2.40 features that have been mentioned? I don't have a ready answer, but would like to hear from anyone who knows.

interesting. How long ago was this HD master made...?

robertc88

05-14-08, 11:12 AM

Here is the short of it.

Did it include extras? No, but everyone is aware of that before deciding to purchase or not. As for me, I couldn't care less about extras.

Can the PQ be better? Certainly but that can be said for many. I think there has been a fair assessment from what I've seen from reviews, mostly 4.0 or above and I agree. Some pretty favorable opinions here also from what I've read so far. I for one know I will not be going back to the SD DVD.

Don't like the price? Wait for a better one.

Don't like the quality of the BD after watching it? No problem, sell it.

I'm glad I was one of the first to get my hands on this title to evaluate it myself. It's back to the show for me as I really like it!! I'll be looking forward to reading more opinions. :)

lgans316

05-14-08, 11:13 AM

The significance of what is provided here is that it was not shot anamorphic. The lenses used are top notch, so how do we account for the apparent reduced resolution compared to other Super 35 to 2.40 features that have been mentioned?

Lenses used are top notch. :eek:Let's begin the debate.:D

mrtwstr

05-14-08, 11:28 AM

Very frustrated with Amazon, I also ordered back in September and am delayed until the 20th of May.

Cam Man

05-14-08, 12:30 PM

Lenses used are top notch. :eek:Let's begin the debate.:DUnfortunately, it's all speculation unless we find some folks with the appropriate expertise and even specific experience with this film's post production, HD transfer BD authoring. The Panavision Primos are excellent lenses, so we can't blame them. It is very likely that many of the Super 35 films we think look terrific used those lenses, as they are Panavision's best spherical lenses. http://www.panavision.com/product_detail.php?maincat=1&cat=195&id=79&node=c0,c3,c22,c23,c24 and http://www.panavision.com/product_detail.php?maincat=1&cat=198&id=93&node=c0,c3,c22,c23,c37

darkjedi664

05-14-08, 01:09 PM

I feel lucky then! My copy is on the UPS truck as I type:)
waiting for that special knock on the door................As is mine. I have Prime and pre-ordered a couple days ago.

mrtwstr

05-14-08, 02:42 PM

I also have Prime. It's the first time I've really been disapointed by pre-orders like this since I got it.

Frank Stein

05-14-08, 02:47 PM

Challenge the post. Not the poster.

I did challege the post. But the post came from you. How are you separating yourself from your own words?

Oh, OK. Let me rephrase. The post doesn't really apprecate movies and wants every movie to look like the HD VISA commercial.

Is that better?

Frank Stein

05-14-08, 02:50 PM

May I know what's wrong with my expectations ?

Blu-ray promises 5-6 times better picture quality than DVD. In case of M&C it's not.

Oh please don't tell me you are actually trying to take this 5-6 thing completely literally and apply it to every movie?

Frank Stein

05-14-08, 03:04 PM

Don't mind him . . . he has nothing good to say about anything.

Actually I do and have done so.

But I also feel compelled to comment on the BS and less than stellar thought processes that occur with too much regularity.

BStecke

05-14-08, 03:11 PM

Actually I do and have done so.

But I also feel compelled to comment on the BS and less than stellar thought processes that occur with too much regularity.

I wasn't talking about you . . . I was talking about the poster you were commenting on.

Pugnax555

05-14-08, 03:16 PM

I wasn't talking about you . . . I was talking about the poster you were commenting on.
I admit that I was initially thrown by your comment, too. I thought you were referring to Frank, not addressing him. Meanwhile, I was sitting there thinking "That's odd, since Frank seems to be saying something perfectly rational up there." Thanks for the clarification.

crunchyfrogs

05-14-08, 03:23 PM

Went to Best Buy and Borders today...both sold out :( Hopefully next week I can get my hands on a copy.

facesnorth

05-14-08, 03:28 PM

I admit that I was initially thrown by your comment, too. I thought you were referring to Frank, not addressing him. Meanwhile, I was sitting there thinking "That's odd, since Frank seems to be saying something perfectly rational up there." Thanks for the clarification.

I understood him. :D

Merrick97

05-14-08, 03:29 PM

Mine is now in the 'Item Shipping Soon" phase.

I can no longer cancel it.

facesnorth

05-14-08, 03:29 PM

Went to Best Buy and Borders today...both sold out :( Hopefully next week I can get my hands on a copy.

My Best Buy still doesn't have it...

bunkaroo

05-14-08, 03:33 PM

My Best Buy still doesn't have it...

Smelling another Fix catalog delay from Amazon a la The Fly and From Hell, I cancelled my preorder Tuesday morning and picked it up from Fry's for a couple bucks more. They had at least 16 copies.

Sounds like I made the right move.

Tim Glover

05-14-08, 03:36 PM

Yep now I won't get it until the 20th or 21st:(

Same here....:(

patrick99

05-14-08, 03:48 PM

Mine is now in the 'Item Shipping Soon" phase.

Mine as well now. Should arrive tomorrow. :)

shamus

05-14-08, 03:50 PM

My Best Buy still doesn't have it...

Mine either.... Try Target!

shamus

05-14-08, 04:42 PM

Little disappointed in the PQ, but the audio makes up for it.

TwinTurboJosh

05-14-08, 04:56 PM

Well Amazon just sent me another update. My copy just shipped. A bit of a bummer since Narnia has already arrived at my doorstep, but at least I'll have the movie by Friday.

John Ballentine

05-14-08, 05:34 PM

SanDiegoinHD

05-14-08, 06:32 PM

Mine either.... Try Target!

Went to two different Target's today. No M&C, they didnt even have Narnia either. Lame :(

Went by a Best Buy yesterday, no dice on M&C. Why does Fox always do this?!

I am gonna make some calls this evening. I want this Movie!

Frank Stein

05-14-08, 06:36 PM

I wasn't talking about you . . . I was talking about the poster you were commenting on.

OK. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

shamus

05-14-08, 06:50 PM

Went to two different Target's today. No M&C, they didnt even have Narnia either. Lame :(

Went by a Best Buy yesterday, no dice on M&C. Why does Fox always do this?!

I am gonna make some calls this evening. I want this Movie!

Not Fox's fault... Best Buy didn't order it for some reason. (why would they bother to order a classic??:rolleyes:)

Went to Target and no dice in the regular section that contains a whopping 10 movies. Asked the guy if they got any in and he said he didn'think so. Began walking out in disgust and noticed it sitting on a rack in a different area...

BStecke

05-14-08, 06:53 PM

OK. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

It's all good. When I posted it I thought to myself, "This could be taken either way . . ."

toxic_avenger

05-14-08, 07:14 PM

Well Amazon just sent me another update. My copy just shipped. A bit of a bummer since Narnia has already arrived at my doorstep, but at least I'll have the movie by Friday.

Mine also just shipped. I hope every one else who's had their order delayed gets it soon.

SanDiegoinHD

05-14-08, 07:29 PM

Not Fox's fault... Best Buy didn't order it for some reason. (why would they bother to order a classic??:rolleyes:)

Went to Target and no dice in the regular section that contains a whopping 10 movies. Asked the guy if they got any in and he said he didn'think so. Began walking out in disgust and noticed it sitting on a rack in a different area...

Well, it seems that with the big Fox titles this always happens. they are never there on the release date. Always later.

I called and it is true though, no Best Buys in KC area have them. I called another Target even when I went to two of them, and the guy in electronics said they have them in stock, and just got them this week. I will edit this post, if they do have a copy. Gonna head down there in about half hour.

Edit - They did have it @ Target. Turns out it was in some endcap and not in the Blu section. I think somebody posted about this a page or two back. I bet they had it at the other Targets. It was hidden fairly well. I am familiar with the section. Gonna watch this tomorrow

Maestro J

05-14-08, 09:25 PM

Just finished watching this one...

THE.NEW.REFERENCE.FOR.HD.OPTICAL.AUDIO

Amazing DTS-HD Master track

BaronVH

05-14-08, 09:33 PM

Not Fox's fault... Best Buy didn't order it for some reason. (why would they bother to order a classic??:rolleyes:)

Went to Target and no dice in the regular section that contains a whopping 10 movies. Asked the guy if they got any in and he said he didn'think so. Began walking out in disgust and noticed it sitting on a rack in a different area...

Hmm, I would be amazed if no Best Buys ordered it for some reason. The ones in my area did not have it, but I found it at Barnes and Noble where I paid about $30 with tax due to my membership. I suspect that Fox is having troubles. How could the biggest seller of Blu-ray titles in the USA not order a new release? I will be major pissed if Patton, A Bridge too Far, and The Longest Day falls into this mess.

Pugnax555

05-14-08, 09:52 PM

THE.NEW.REFERENCE.FOR.HD.OPTICAL.AUDIO

There's one word in there that you may want to remove. I'll leave it up to you to decide which one should go.

crunchyfrogs

05-14-08, 10:11 PM

hehehe...

shamus

05-14-08, 10:52 PM

Hmm, I would be amazed if no Best Buys ordered it for some reason. The ones in my area did not have it, but I found it at Barnes and Noble where I paid about $30 with tax due to my membership. I suspect that Fox is having troubles. How could the biggest seller of Blu-ray titles in the USA not order a new release? I will be major pissed if Patton, A Bridge too Far, and The Longest Day falls into this mess.

When I asked the sales guy why they didn't have it, he said sometimes titles slip by. He than sent off an Email to someone regarding it.

audiophreak

05-14-08, 11:13 PM

i checked my system on tuesday and no stores in california had this dvd in stock. Cc says its only sold online, and iirc wallmart only sells it online too.. Some have had luck with target so i called my local target, no luck. So i had to order from amazon.. ships in 5 days...

Maestro J

05-14-08, 11:22 PM

There's one word in there that you may want to remove. I'll leave it up to you to decide which one should go.

LOL...didn't even realize I did that... :)
I'll leave it for prosperity.

BStecke

05-14-08, 11:25 PM

LOL...didn't even realize I did that... :)
I'll leave it for prosperity.

LOL yet again :D

gethd

05-15-08, 03:11 AM

Got mine from netflix and just watched it, and did a PS3 firmware updated right before that, PQ is really mediocre, SQ is much better in comparison.

robertc88

05-15-08, 08:44 AM

Anyone been going back and forth doing some comparisons with the SD DVD (if they do indeed own it) after they got the BD? Watch the first 15 minutes and that in itself should be enough to show improvement.

robertc88

05-15-08, 09:03 AM

Got mine from netflix and just watched it, and did a PS3 firmware updated right before that, PQ is really mediocre, SQ is much better in comparison.

Did you get the audio pop at 17m 25 sec mark with the Onkyo?

Ralph Potts

05-15-08, 09:13 AM

Did you get the pop at 17m 25 sec mark with the Onkyo?

Greetings,

Robert I checked on this and with my Panasonic and Denon 5308CI combo I didn't get the pop at 17m 25 sec in.

Regards,

robertc88

05-15-08, 09:16 AM

Schils

05-15-08, 09:51 AM

^^^^^

Ralph,

I remember you did report back and you didn't get the pop. I believe the problem is with the Onkyo with DTS HD MA. Waiting to hear from some more folks who have that AVR. I know at least one person cleared that up after doing the necessary procedure.

I had it, nearly turned my heart over, lol (I had my 605 CRANKED, thank goodness no damage resulted), but thanks to that thread link shamus threw up and the info within, I updated my FW in a snap and the pop at 17:24 has vanished for good, not to mention any future discs that a pop may happen on! You gotta admit, AVS can be a life saver sometimes. :)

gethd

05-15-08, 02:30 PM

Did you get the audio pop at 17m 25 sec mark with the Onkyo?

No pops with PS3 internal decode and outputs LPCM to Onkyo.

ferrari fan

05-15-08, 02:52 PM

I had it, nearly turned my heart over, lol (I had my 605 CRANKED, thank goodness no damage resulted), but thanks to that thread link shamus threw up and the info within, I updated my FW in a snap and the pop at 17:24 has vanished for good, not to mention any future discs that a pop may happen on! You gotta admit, AVS can be a life saver sometimes. :)

Please don't kill me for asking as I just started reading this thread from the last page first :o I have the Onkyo 875 and the Panny BD30 connetcted to the reciever by HDMI, and then HDMI from reciever to my Pioneer Elite PRO FHD1. On what player did you update the firmware ? Panny, Sony ?, and what version firmware please ?

Thanks in advance.

Update...see you have the Panny BD30 also. What version firmware ? Any noticed problems with the newest firmware ?

buddahead

05-15-08, 03:07 PM

The original movie was bad PQ compared todays standards.I bought the sdvd years ago and it suck video wise but the sound was excellent.I guess even BD could not make it work.Good movie though.

robertc88

05-15-08, 03:14 PM

The BD not being able to make it work isn't the opinion that many here have for the PQ. Give it a rent especially if you like the movie.

Schils

05-15-08, 03:27 PM

Please don't kill me for asking as I just started reading this thread from the last page first :o I have the Onkyo 875 and the Panny BD30 connetcted to the reciever by HDMI, and then HDMI from reciever to my Pioneer Elite PRO FHD1. On what player did you update the firmware ? Panny, Sony ?, and what version firmware please ?

Thanks in advance.

Update...see you have the Panny BD30 also. What version firmware ? Any noticed problems with the newest firmware ?

No worries - I have the 605, and apparently there are a couple of things that can be updated, the MAIN FW and the DSP FW...from what I gather, the most recent MAIN FW version for the 605 is 1.03 (?) so I didn't bother with that, no problems there, but the DSP FW update solves a rare "POP" when bitstreaming DTS HDMA tracks, I needed that update and it worked as advertised.

townofturley

05-15-08, 03:59 PM

The original movie was bad PQ compared todays standards.I bought the sdvd years ago and it suck video wise but the sound was excellent.I guess even BD could not make it work.Good movie though.

Your "opinion" is part of such a minute minority that I feel you should defend your position with specific examples.

And what are today's "standards" that you are comparing M&C to?

BTW, here's a reference you might be interested in:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027602

I'm beginning to see that the BD release of M&C is a way to place viewers into group A or group B.

westgate

05-15-08, 04:33 PM

a labeler, huh?

townofturley

05-15-08, 09:06 PM

a labeler, huh?

And to which group do you belong?

ferrari fan

05-16-08, 01:14 PM

No worries - I have the 605, and apparently there are a couple of things that can be updated, the MAIN FW and the DSP FW...from what I gather, the most recent MAIN FW version for the 605 is 1.03 (?) so I didn't bother with that, no problems there, but the DSP FW update solves a rare "POP" when bitstreaming DTS HDMA tracks, I needed that update and it worked as advertised.

I've had a very loud quick pop, twice I think. But don't recall which movie, or what audio codec. I'm guessing that you have to take your reciever into a authorized Onkyo shop and have them do the firmware update. I'll go over to Onkyos website and check it out.

Schils

05-16-08, 02:51 PM

I've had a very loud quick pop, twice I think. But don't recall which movie, or what audio codec. I'm guessing that you have to take your reciever into a authorized Onkyo shop and have them do the firmware update. I'll go over to Onkyos website and check it out.

No need to take it in! "Shamus" posted a link to a thread just a few pages back (post #126)...it has everything about that loud and ugly "pop" with our various Onkyo models - covers it all, from the cause to the remedy, FW updates, exactly which FEW movies and their bitstreamed DTS HDMA track causes it, etc. Spend a few minutes there, it'll be worth it and quick. ;)

Patsfan123

05-17-08, 01:16 AM

Watched this tonight, I never saw it before. The PQ was inconsistent, but overall I think it was above average. The fact that it was never really sunny didn't help, and I am sure with all the water and fog it was the best they could do. There was some grain in the fog and sky shots but nothing distracting. But then there were a few scenes where PQ was top notch and you could pick out every pore and hair on their faces. I would give it a 4.0 for PQ. As for sound, well I would give it a 5.0. I only listened to the DTS core, but I felt like I was on the ship. Pure demo material and the best mix I have ever heard. There was constant ambiance from the rears and fronts giving you the wall of sound. The sub was shaking the house whenever the cannons fired. It was really an awesome experience overall!

BStecke

05-17-08, 01:26 AM

I just watched this for the first time tonight as well. For what was there, I thought the PQ was good. Not really the type of movie that lends itself to the pop and awe of other movies, but that's how it was made. The audio is probably the best I've heard to date. The opening scene on the ship with all the creaks and groans sounds very realistic and very open . . . I'm only set up for 5.1, but I've never heard a movie with such an encompassing soundtrack. It literally envelops you. The battle scenes will definitely give your sub a workout, and everything overall is very clean and very crisp. I loved it.

robertc88

05-17-08, 09:07 AM

Some comparisons can be made with Chronicles of Narnia which definitely was a tale of two halves for PQ, the second half being better. Same here. After the first hour of M&C, I was defintely more pleased with the PQ quality than the first part and I suppose the more tranquil weather conditions had a big part in that. I really thing a reasonable job was done with the first part though.

Glad that folks who recently watched this enjoyed it. Rest assured you saw and heard something better than the SD DVD! :)

robertc88

05-19-08, 08:52 AM

badboi

05-19-08, 09:16 AM

Kind of disappointing especially at this point with 9,000 views not to see more opinions on what many consider an excellent movie. Thought more folks would jump at the opportunity to give their thoughts on the BD. Maybe though some are waiting for the price to drop to take the plunge.

I think some people were/are having trouble locating a copy. I know a lot of local stores didn't carry it for some reason. I was fortunate enough to get mine on release day and I feel that the movie is worth every penny I paid for it. There are a few imperfections here and there, but IMO the Blu ray version is much improved over the dvd version.

rr6966

05-19-08, 10:17 AM

I watched over the weekend, and I thought it looked good on Blu. I saw this in the movie theater, and have the DVD. The Blu Ray version, looks like what I remember from the theater. Now the sound is an A+, excellent! I'm glad I purchased this in Blu Ray, I dragged my feet a bit because the price is really too high, but I caved at $28 on-line, when I couldn't find it anywhere locally.

lgans316

05-19-08, 10:19 AM

OK folks. Had to watch the movie twice to come up with some kind of reasonable assessment of PQ.

The Picture Quality ranges from average to excellent. Contrast and Black Levels fluctuate. Color palette is muted. Many scenes are shot in night and foggy conditions. What more can you expect ? PQ varies dramatically. Some level of inevitable noise permeates through fog though it lasts only for few seconds but can get quite distracting for grain haters. However the picture shines where it's supposed to. The PQ dramatically improves under the lighting conditions and post Galapagos entry. The most impressive aspect of this transfer is fine object detailing and film like picture quality.

There is no need to comment on the movie and the sound quality when both are outstanding. The SQ falls short of being reference grade as the center channel seems to buried by the overwhelming sound produced by the other channels during the attack scenes. I may be wrong with the SQ assessment as my HT is a minuscule one.

I am still disappointed as FOX didn't deliver the value added materials from the Collector's edition when 6.5 GB of free space is reported to be left. Had FOX had included the extras from the CE this could have been the best version of M&C on all aspects.

Courtesy: Patsfan123@AVS

MPEG-4 AVC BD50
2:18:20
Movie Size: 37,076,391,936
Disc Size: 44,296,033,542
Average Video Bit Rate: 27.87 Mbps