Great! let us know how the RS1 compares. I can guess the outcome as there is learning curve for evaluating/comparing projectors.

Ok, my case is white, but how do I know if I have the short throw or medium? Someone please help.

Ok, my case is white, but how do I know if I have the short throw or medium? Someone please help.

Look at the model # on the PJ, if it has a S at the end it a shot throw.

Akuan,

I set the RS1 back up and I think it just that I prefer the look of DLP. Its how sharp it looks to me and thats why I'm considering one of the Marantz 1080's.

Akuan,

I set the RS1 back up and I think it just that I prefer the look of DLP. Its how sharp it looks to me and thats why I'm considering one of the Marantz 1080's.

That is a bit puzzling to me unless your RS1 is not a sharp one or the ND filter is robbing too much ANSI contrast and sharpness.
My DPX projector lens is very sharp. I can clearly see dimples from each individual mirrors even those located at the edges. Its only flaw is some noticeable CA toward the edges.
It doesn't look any sharper than my VW60, in fact the later looks just as sharp but has more details (due to more pixels).
I wonder if it also has something to do with motion blurs that has been reported on the RS1.

I can also confirm that the RS1 that I saw was not as sharp as the 12K mkII that I have . The RS1 does throw a very pleasing image however and I would have no problem owning one for the right price , it's just that they are not at that 'right price' just yet ;) .

-- Jason

I had an RS2 for a little more than 2 months ( customers loan ) and my previous 12000MKII was sharper. My current 20000 is no contest.

Well i hooked up my ps3 today via hdmi to the vp12s4, put in planet earth bluray. All i have to say is WOW! picture is eye popping, definitly a lot better than my old toshiba mt700(hdtv source), especially during the night scenes the black level is noticeable better than anything i have seen.

1 question, it seems the ps3 is only able to feed 1080i to the s4. If i choose 1080p on the ps3, the screen goes blank with some error message. Why is that? is it my hdmi cable or ps3 or the projector that's causing the problem

Also even if i can send 1080p signal i should still use 1080i and let s4 will convert it to 1080p right? so the correct setup actually is 1080i to s4 and let it do the conversion since i assume it can do it better than the ps3.

hi guys been reading this thread .. most of u guys are saying older high end 720p is better than entry level 1080p.
pls can u telll me which ones are the high end 720p?
is panny ax200u one of them?
since its the best selling 720p pj
thanks

Yes, the AX-200U is one of the better 720p units.

and is it better than the entry level 1080p pjs?

The AX-200 is a nice machine but not in the high end league. The closeout out highend PJs would be Marantz S4, Sharp 12K II, Infocus 7210, etc.. These are all machines that were $8K-$15K year ago and have now been discontinued and can be found for <$1500.

Gagaliya,

Ths S4 only accepts 1080P on the RGB input, you are fine with 1080i. Most Blu-Ray discs are 1080P and the PS3 has to convert it to 1080i which is a simple process and the S4 converts it to 720P.

Bob

thanks bob
few questions
where can i get these ones are the available at any website?
which are the etc .. ones?
are they all dlp?

i got the med throw version, which is what i wanted. But i dont see a option to choose short/long version on secondact's website, unless you got it from somewhere else?

I got mine from SA also, but purchased mine by phone. I spoke to someone named Andy who is no longer with SA. I asked Andy if they had any short throw and at first they didn't, but called me back to tell me he did. It was supposed to be in black but recieved the white short throw instead...not a deal breaker. Plus I don't want to send this one back and not like the image on the second one or it have more bulb hrs.

Well i hooked up my ps3 today via hdmi to the vp12s4, put in planet earth bluray. All i have to say is WOW! picture is eye popping, definitly a lot better than my old toshiba mt700(hdtv source), especially during the night scenes the black level is noticeable better than anything i have seen.

1 question, it seems the ps3 is only able to feed 1080i to the s4. If i choose 1080p on the ps3, the screen goes blank with some error message. Why is that? is it my hdmi cable or ps3 or the projector that's causing the problem

Also even if i can send 1080p signal i should still use 1080i and let s4 will convert it to 1080p right? so the correct setup actually is 1080i to s4 and let it do the conversion since i assume it can do it better than the ps3.

Nice! I'm glad your enjoying your new PJ.

About the PS3, same thing here the S4 won't except 1080P only i. Whats strange is that my Toshiba XA2 is set at 1080p over 24 and it works fine.

Nice! I'm glad your enjoying your new PJ.

About the PS3, same thing here the S4 won't except 1080P only i. Whats strange is that my Toshiba XA2 is set at 1080p over 24 and it works fine.


hi alex, check out bob's reply below. There is a video setting in ps3 that you can change to rgb, then check off 1080p in the output resolution, then it will feed 1080p to the projector But i am leaving it as 1080i as per bob's suggestion, there doesnt seem to be any difference.

also how did you manage to get a phone number for SA? :p couldnt find it anywhere, those guys responded very quick when i wanted to buy a projector and had some questions, now they just ignore me when i emailed them about the abnormal 750 hour on the bulb. Think i will just call mack and buy a bulb warranty if they cover refurbed, that's the only sour point of my purchase so far. The projector pq itself is outstanding.




Ths S4 only accepts 1080P on the RGB input, you are fine with 1080i. Most Blu-Ray discs are 1080P and the PS3 has to convert it to 1080i which is a simple process and the S4 converts it to 720P.

Man that is a good deal on the s4 and have been considering upgrading my hd1000u. What kind of improvements would I see and how big of an improvement? I am pretty darn happy with the hd1000u, but hey if its that much better.... I am running a 137 inch (satin white paint) screen and wish the hd1000u was actually brighter, I actually use it in sports mode now.

Somebody grab this one ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=4994

Will not last long at that price ( not mine , I just noticed it in the classifieds and figured somebody in this thread might be looking for one ;) ) .

-- Jason

Man that is a good deal on the s4 and have been considering upgrading my hd1000u. What kind of improvements would I see and how big of an improvement? I am pretty darn happy with the hd1000u, but hey if its that much better.... I am running a 137 inch (satin white paint) screen and wish the hd1000u was actually brighter, I actually use it in sports mode now.

With that size screen I would be concerned with lumen output, especially if you are not satisfied with the output of the HD1000U.

The S4 HDMI does accept 1080P/24,25,30 but not 60 which is the PS3 default. I should have elaborated more in the earlier thread. For most people its easier to just use 1080i or RGB an not worry about it.

Bob

[QUOTE=BobL;13921573]The AX-200 is a nice machine but not in the high end league. The closeout out highend PJs would be Marantz S4, Sharp 12K II, Infocus 7210, etc.. These are all machines that were $8K-$15K year ago and have now been discontinued and can be found for <$1500.


pls can u tell me the exact model no of sharp and which are etc ones
regards and thanks for all the help
cheers

[QUOTE]


pls can u tell me the exact model no of sharp and which are etc ones
regards and thanks for all the help
cheers

The high end single chip 720p DLP units that we are talking about here are as follows :

Marantz vp12s4 : very flexible placement , great IQ , dual HDMI inputs , 10 bit processing , top quality optics

Sharp XV-Z12000 mark II : somewhat limited placement , long throw , highest native CR & highest ANSI of the 3 , top quality optics , DVI input with HDCP

InFocus 7210 : brightest & loudest of the 3 , generally D65 out of the box , very nice optics

The Sharp 12K mkII appears to be the most difficult to find currently and the other two are becoming more scarce by the day .

-- Jason

[QUOTE]


pls can u tell me the exact model no of sharp and which are etc ones
regards and thanks for all the help
cheers

Well the one that DaGamePimp linked to above is an absolute steal.

The S4 HDMI does accept 1080P/24,25,30 but not 60 which is the PS3 default. I should have elaborated more in the earlier thread. For most people its easier to just use 1080i or RGB an not worry about it.

Bob

Can you elatorate a tad moe on this Bob. I am setting up my PS3 to my S4 this weekend. You can pm me if you want. I just want the best output possible from my PS3 playing blu-ray disks going to my s4 since the projector will convert it to 720p. thanks for the help.

Check off 720p and 1080i and you'll be good to go.

hi alex, check out bob's reply below. There is a video setting in ps3 that you can change to rgb, then check off 1080p in the output resolution, then it will feed 1080p to the projector But i am leaving it as 1080i as per bob's suggestion, there doesnt seem to be any difference.


so there is a way to get the ps3 to ouput 1080p over the hdmi to the pj? please discuss. wouldn't the picture quality be greater doing it this way vs 1080i output to the pj? what do you mean there doesn't seem to be any difference? thanks.

1080p -> 720p = 1080i -> 720p

s4 converts it to 720p, so it doesnt matter.

It will be a matter of finding out which devices downconverts it better and it can make a visible difference.

I received my vp12s4 this week and set it up. Tacked up my screen onto the studs and set my projector on the coffee table. This is my first projector, (so I don't have anything else to compare it to really), but I am really happy with it. For the longest time I was going to buy a ae2000u - this thread made me change my mind and buy the Marantz instead. I am sure I would have been very happy with the Panny, but I saved a little money this way. I just wanted to thank everyone for their input on this thread that helped me pull the trigger and buy a projector. Now of course I need to finish building my room.

I believe you have made a wise decision. Enjoy your new PJ.

How many hrs on your bulb?

Congrats beaker!

I have a question for you guys. I have a ps3, xbox360, and dish network receiver connected to the marantz s4. Do I have to calibrated for both rbg and Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr signals separately? I realize that xbox 360 games and dvd/blu-ray output Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr while my dish receiver and ps3 games output rbg. There's definitely a shift in brightness between the two signals. The ps3 and dish receiver are connected via hdmi while the xbox 360 is connected via component. What settings in the dashboard of the ps3 are you guys using with displays? Forgive my ignorance. thanks

I received my 12s4 short throw on Thursday and really haven't had time to play with it too much due to work and I've just watched a little of the NBA playoffs on HD so far. This is my 3rd projector, replacing a HD70 that I have sitting on a table. I am viewing on a 84" Draper High Contrast Grey screen with a throw distance of about 10 feet. The unit I has a little over 200 hours on the bulb and I really haven't done any calibrating or tweaking other than closing down the iris and putting the lamp in economy mode.

The only reference I have to compare it to is my HD70 which isn't really fair I guess. OOTB the black levels are so superior and the image is just a lot more appealing. But, I'll admit, for the $800 I spent, considering this unit was 12-14k at the time the HD70 has pretty amazing performance and I am sure anyone upgrading from a Mits would probably feel the same.

I am sure that with Bluray or HD-DVDs the quality will be easier to see...I mean, the lens alone will give you a sharper image for sure..of course, sitting distance, screen size , screen and even your eyes all play a big role.

I believe you have made a wise decision. Enjoy your new PJ.

How many hrs on your bulb?

Alex the projector said 1986 for bulb hours, my assumption (from reading this thread and the manual) that this would be the remaining hours on the bulb.

Alex the projector said 1986 for bulb hours, my assumption (from reading this thread and the manual) that this would be the remaining hours on the bulb.

That is correct! Enjoy.:)

I currently own a yamaha lpx-510 and thinking of getting the s4. I have a 16x20 man cave with a da-lite cinema contour screen (106", I believe it is a gain of 1.1)
Is this projector going to be too dim for me b/c of my screen size. (the yamaha is rated at 1200 ansi lumens-granted in bright mode)
I also have to convince my wife that this is a good idea-- I should notice a large jump in PQ right ?
Also leary about refurbs - anybody know how MArantz's QC and customer service is
Thanks

I currently own a yamaha lpx-510 and thinking of getting the s4. I have a 16x20 man cave with a da-lite cinema contour screen (106", I believe it is a gain of 1.1)
Is this projector going to be too dim for me b/c of my screen size. (the yamaha is rated at 1200 ansi lumens-granted in bright mode)
I also have to convince my wife that this is a good idea-- I should notice a large jump in PQ right ?
Also leary about refurbs - anybody know how MArantz's QC and customer service is
Thanks

I'm not sure about the brightness for your setup, and I have yet to have to deal with Marantz's customer service, but my refurb had only a few hours on the bulb and the unit looks brand new........I should have mine set up soon and I will give my .02 on it then. I don't think you can go wrong with the S4 at $1200.....thats a steal for a great projector if you can still find that deal somewhere.

We have never had a problem with any Marantz product except for one S4 calibration probe. Marantz had to take back the PJ and recalibrate it through the service menu and they sent a new probe. Turn around time was excellent.

Bob

Thanks I am looking forward to your review. I could not pass up on this deal so I ordered mine ( a meduium throw)and am getting it on monday. I hope that I too will have a projector with very few lamp hrs on it.
By the way the ANSI on the yamaha according to the reviews I read drops to the 350 range with full iris and the color balance filter on so I think I should be okay.
I will be selling the lpx soon once I get mine set up so if you know anybody that wants it have them PM me
I will place a formal add in the classifieds late next week

By the way the ANSI on the yamaha according to the reviews I read drops to the 350 range with full iris and the color balance filter on so I think I should be okay.
I

The calibrated output measurements by ultimateAVmag for this projector is as follows.

203.85 lumens @F5.0
255.19 lumens @F3.0

Using your 16:9 1.1 gain 106" screen you will get.

6.69 fl @ F5.0
8.41 fl @ F3.0

It will definately be a bit too dim specially when using F5.0 iris.
You wil get more output in a uncalibrated state or using higher color temperature calibration point.

AKuan,
I just skimmed the ulymate AV review and could not find those numbers that you mentioned Where are they and do you think I made a mistake getting this for my projector ?
In the Athens shootout they used a 130" screen and nobody mentioned any problems with dimmness in the sp4

AKuan,
I just skimmed the ulymate AV review and could not find those numbers that you mentioned Where are they and do you think I made a mistake getting this for my projector ?
In the Athens shootout they used a 130" screen and nobody mentioned any problems with dimmness in the sp4


Their numbers are 10.6fL and 13.27fL on their 80 in wide (92"dia) 1.3 screen.
Lumens output is just equal to fL numbers times screen area in foot which is 25 sqf for 80"X45" divided by screen gain.

Take 13.27fL number and multiply it by 25sqf and divide it by 1.3 and you get 255 lumens,

Your 106" diag screen has 33.26sqf so you will get 255/33.26X1.1=8.43fL
The 8.43fL may be enough for some.
You can use much larger screen size with higher gain.
For example, a 126" (47.1225sqf) with 2.8 gain you get 255/47.1225X2.8=15.15fL

You can try F3.0 iris setting and see if it works for you or you can replace your screen with a HP screen of same size or larger and use F5.0 iris setting.

Their numbers are 10.6fL and 13.27fL on their 80 in wide (92"dia) 1.3 screen.
Lumens output is just equal to fL numbers times screen area in foot which is 25 sqf for 80"X45" divided by screen gain.

Take 13.27fL number and multiply it by 25sqf and divide it by 1.3 and you get 255 lumens,

Your 106" diag screen has 33.26sqf so you will get 255/33.26X1.1=8.43fL
The 8.43fL may be enough for some.
You can use much larger screen size with higher gain.
For example, a 126" (47.1225sqf) with 2.8 gain you get 255/47.1225X2.8=15.15fL

You can try F3.0 iris setting and see if it works for you or you can replace your screen with a HP screen of same size or larger and use F5.0 iris setting.

I was told by installers and calibrators that the calibrated lumens for economy and high contrast were around 350. Projector Central gives High Contrast ANSI Lumens as 600. I know that this number is the max that you can get.

I was told by installers and calibrators that the calibrated lumens for economy and high contrast were around 350. Projector Central gives High Contrast ANSI Lumens as 600. I know that this number is the max that you can get.


I believe the 600 number is from spec and not actual measurement.
Hometheaterhifi has 381 lumens value at normal lamp and F3.0 and 260 lumens at F5.0 and low lamp power mode. These numbers are higher because they used one with "an almost new bulb" and ultimateAV used one with 350 hours on the bulb.
I would have bought one to try if it ouputs anywhere near 350 lumens in best contrast mode. However, I started seeing some 1080p Benq refurb units for well under $2K and used ones for even less.

Thanks for the above posts. I hope I will be ok b/c the wife will not go for a new screen.
My rooom is 16x20 with black ceiling tiles, gray walls and black velour curtains next to the screen. If I close the doors to the room it is pitch black, so hopefully my man cave will make up any brightness shortcomings of the projector

The bulb in my 12S4 only has 31 hours on it and I use a screen with 2.8 gain. I really could use an ND filter right now and remove it later on when the bulb dims.

I bet that 12S4 is blinding with that HP screen.:eek: Good combo that I am sure just pops. A filter will help to keep your retinas intact.:D

lol not to beat a dead horse, but looks like the guys over at $3000+ are making fun of us. :p

Be careful over there, they will try to sell you on a discontinued high end 720p DLP...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13957006#post13957006

forum war!

Ignorance is bliss ;)
Just stay around here where you find real down to Earth information.

lol not to beat a dead horse, but looks like the guys over at $3000+ are making fun of us. :p



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13957006#post13957006

forum war!

Take it in stride. An RS2 would be nice, but for the 300 hours per year our theater gets used, I can find much better uses for the extra $5000 (e.g. worthy causes, my daughter, etc). I can splurge a little on extravagances like a theater, but there is no way I could in good conscience spend over $20,000 on a home theater simply so I can go to a forum and brag.

BTW a certain retailer is out of stock on the s4's now

No they still have the medium throw (white case) refurb according to their website ;) .

*** Uh Oh ... nevermind , it just went to O.of.S when I refreshed the page ( oops ) . ***

-- Jason

No they still have the medium throw (white case) refurb according to their website ;) .

*** Uh Oh ... nevermind , it just went to O.of.S when I refeshed the page ( oops ) . ***

-- Jason

I received my medium throw 12S4 yesterday. The projector was just about new. It only has 58 hours on it. Bulb had been used for 28 hours. I am one happy camper. :D

one other question- I am going to ceiling mount my projector .
Should I place it at the closest allowable distance or will this compromise the PQ ?

It's usually best to use as little zoom as possible when it comes to IQ . So generally the maximum throw distance (no zoom) will give the sharpest image ;) .

-- Jason

wont that reduce brightness however ? As per my earlier post with a 1.1 gain 106 " screen, my concern with the s4 is brightness (even though I have a light controlled room)

Yes it can reduce brightness but it can also improve contrast (depends upon the lens) . These high end optics have very little brightness variance so I would suggest using as little zoom as possible for maximum IQ ( just my opinion of course ;) ) .

Usually it's max brightness at full zoom and max contrast at zero zoom .

-- Jason

Thanks jason- i may try to compromise in the middle of the range

Looks like I missed out on the 12S4 deal (cue sad music)... I'm thinking of instead going with a refurbished Marantz VP4001 for around $1k. Any thoughts on this or other recommendations/deals on older high end 720p?

Thanks. I'm relatively new here and have spent hours reading through the forums...what an amazing resource!

You might want to take a look at the Sharp DT-510. It is basically the same as VP4001minus one iris. You don't need it if you plan on using larger screen. You can get it brand new for around $800 shipped.

I own a Vp4001, I doubt I'll be upgrading to any other projector anytime soon, certainly not to any budget 1080p. The DC2+ and the 3 iris settings really make this thing stand out, that and its colors are beautiful right out of the box.

So how is the VP12S3 versus the S4 and the 4001?

I was in the market for a budget 1080p, but have talked myself out of it. I currently have an Optoma HD70, and want to go upmarket.

I think I might have placement problems with a VP12s3 though.

I REALLY like the NewEgg price on the Sharp DT-510 also... Decisions! $999 for a two year old $13000 projector, or $799 for a new $2000 projector... help me out! ;)

For the money, the VP510 sounds tempting.

So how is the VP12S3 versus the S4 and the 4001?

I was in the market for a budget 1080p, but have talked myself out of it. I currently have an Optoma HD70, and want to go upmarket.

I think I might have placement problems with a VP12s3 though.

I REALLY like the NewEgg price on the Sharp DT-510 also... Decisions! $999 for a two year old $13000 projector, or $799 for a new $2000 projector... help me out! ;)

The 12S3 uses the same lens and 7 segment color wheel I believe. It does not have the VXP chip. I think it has the same lens shift so I do not see how placement could be a problem. You can table mount, rear shelf mount or ceiling mount this projector. If it is the same as the 12S4 then it has more vertical lens shift than many of the LCD projectors. The reviews I read said the 12S4 was a big improvement over an already good projector.

The VXP chip is the Gennum, right? I have two 1080p sources, so I guess the scaler would be used to downrez the picture, not uprez it. I wonder how the faroudja scaler does in this regard compared to the Gennum.

I am trying to throw a 120" picture in a room only about 16 feet long. So, does this qualify as a short throw need? My HD70 won't quite fill my 120" screen.

Unless you have a very high gain screen I would rule out the vp12s3. It's quite dim compared to the 4001 or dt-510 and would struggle with a 120" screen.

Scrubs, do you have a VP4001? Where in Idaho are you located? I am actually in Meridian, Boise area. I just pulled the trigger on a VP4001. My partner at work is buying a DT-510. Should be interesting to see how they actually compare.

Scrubs, do you have a VP4001? Where in Idaho are you located? I am actually in Meridian, Boise area. I just pulled the trigger on a VP4001. My partner at work is buying a DT-510. Should be interesting to see how they actually compare.

They should compare just about the same (4001 will have better contrast) since they are nearly the same projector. The 4001 is a 510 with and added iris.

Anyone have the 4001 and are you happy with the black's? I have seen the sharp 510 and thought it looked amazing. I am actually a big fan of 720p DLP-LCD because they seem to hide the video noise and grain issues much better than the 1080p projectors I own currently. From 13' from my 100 screen I find 720p projectors to look identical to 1080p models.

just unboxed my vp12s4-- only had 33 hrs on it. Temporarily placed on a table until it gets ceiling mounted. It is going to take me some time to adj. to a dlp picture since I have had lcd for 4 yrs now, but even in my impromtu setup I noticed immediately a sharper picture with better contrast and an overall visually more pleasing image.
I have a 106" Cinema contour high contrast gain screen (gain 1.1) and I have probably have reached the upper limits of this projectors capabilty in brightness. For my tastes it is adequate. Too bright a screen in a darkened theater room is fatiguing to me.
The poster with a 120" screen should probable steer clear unless his screen gain is very high. Will give follow up impresions after it gets ceiling mounted Thursday.

Just to follow up on a comment Jason made above, since the contrast is so good on this crop of DLP's at this point, I'd give the nod to putting the projector as physically close as is possible to the screen so you get the maximum amount of brightness out of the bulb as it ages. Its more important for me since my screen is retro-reflective but my PJ is ceiling mounted. Its not THAT bad however because my ceiling is very low, hence I'm only slightly out of the reflected cone.

Hit that narrow iris :)

I just ordered the VP4001 yesterday. I'm a bit confused about the 15:9 native res....for a 720p signal is the image distorted/cropped? will it fill a 16:9 screen? I'm planning a DIY floating screen and wondering if I should use 15:9 or 16:9 on the projector calculator.

just unboxed my vp12s4-- only had 33 hrs on it. Temporarily placed on a table until it gets ceiling mounted. It is going to take me some time to adj. to a dlp picture since I have had lcd for 4 yrs now, but even in my impromtu setup I noticed immediately a sharper picture with better contrast and an overall visually more pleasing image.
I have a 106" Cinema contour high contrast gain screen (gain 1.1) and I have probably have reached the upper limits of this projectors capabilty in brightness. For my tastes it is adequate. Too bright a screen in a darkened theater room is fatiguing to me.
The poster with a 120" screen should probable steer clear unless his screen gain is very high. Will give follow up impresions after it gets ceiling mounted Thursday.

It seems like they saved some of the lower hour units for last. Mine was a low hour unit also. I received mine last Thursday.

It seems like they saved some of the lower hour units for last. Mine was a low hour unit also. I received mine last Thursday.

My bulb had 19 hours on it when I received it two weeks ago. :)

My bulb had 19 hours on it when I received it two weeks ago. :)

We are talking about hours on the projector not the bulb. How many hours were on the projector?

We are talking about hours on the projector not the bulb. How many hours were on the projector?

My S4 has 2585 hrs on it!:( No matter, the picture it throws makes up for the high hrs. I just purchased the Marantz VP-15S1 from AVS because of how much I enjoy the PC of this high end DLP.

My RS1 should be in the classifieds soon.

i have 227 hours on the projector which makes me wonder if the projector bulb has 37 hours or was reset and it truly has 227 hours on the bulb. All in all the projector seems to be in good shape with extremely minor blemishes on the casing. I also had to do a factory reset on the settings as it was shipped to me with the keystone way off.
I sometimes wonder what kind of QC truly goes into these projectors (My feeling is that it is problably cursory)
Does anybody know if the 2000 hr life on the projector is in nornal or economy mode ?
Also with regards to Head rusch's post, should I place my projector closest to my screen whicj would necessitate the most zoom. There seems to be a difffering opinion
Also what is everbody's feelings regarding extended warranties. Marantz seems to have a generous 1yr warranty
Thanks

jprod ,

If you value brightness over best possible image quality then place it close with max zoom . What HeadRusch and I are saying is basically the exact same thing but he prefers maintaining brightness over best possible IQ . I on the other hand prefer maximum IQ whenever possible (if the install allows for it and one can deal with the slight brightness reduction) . Really it should come down to screen size , screen type and the room itself as to which way you go ( neither opinion is right or wrong , just another variable to consider ;) ) .

The Marantz should be just like the Sharp in that 2000 hours is the rated lamp life regardless of lamp mode used ( seems odd I know ;) ) .

-- Jason

If you have a dedicated light controlled room then you might want to move the projector back so that you are not using much zoom, especially if your screen has some gain and is not over 106". If you have ambient light, light colored walls, large screen or want to use the projector with some lights on then you probably should place the projector for max zoom. Like Gamepimp said neither is right or wrong. It just comes down to what works best for you.

Thanks for all the above posts. it is very dark in there so I will place it in the back half of the zoom range, and since the lamp life is the same I will leave it on nl for that extra kick.

Hello all,

I am a long time reader, first time poster. I had the IF4805 and after much research and fence sitting between older high-end dlp 720 (vp12s4) and newer lcd 1080 (sanyo z2000) I went with the former. My refurbed 12s4 arrived today (its big!) from second act. 201 lamp hours, 267 projector hours, very good physical condition. I have it hooked up to a Toshiba HD-A30 via hdmi.

Played with it for about a half hour started with LOTR (fellowship) (blacks looked great beautiful 3d effect) when I popped a second dvd in a whole bunch of vertical lines (1 pixel wide, spaced about 40 pixels between each line) showed up in the image. Now they won't go away.

At first I thought it was something with the HDMI synching but I tried different sources, different resolutions, different wall outlets and nothing helps. It seems like its not dependent on the source because they are still there when nothing is plugged into the projector and I am only displaying the projectors built-in grid test pattern.

Has anyone ever heard of this? Do I have a bum projector? A bum lamp? Checked on the web and couldn't find anything helpful.

Thanks.

It sounds like vertical banding, but I never heard of this with DLP only the older LCD's.

I let the projector rest and tried again a few hours later. At first it was fine and then after about 20 minutes the lines came back, same thing. It looks like whatever is wrong with it (light engine, bulb?) slipped by their quality control inspection. Maybe something to do with heat but the fans sound like they are working and its well ventilated. I'm gonna call second act and see what my options are but its not looking good.

Can you post a picture ?
Is the keystone set top default (0) ?
Vertical banding is a phenomenon of LCD's so that should not be it

its possible tht theres something wrong with the PJ's DMD.

Thats a good idea give them a call, they are very helpfull. They might even call Marantz for u.

I will try and get a picture of it, tried this morning but had to go to work before the "line effect" kicked in. Here's a screenshot (my first ever so go easy).

Spoke with both 2ndAct and Marantz and they are being very accomodating. Since they are out of stock I may have to go with warranty repair (and be without a projector for a month) or refund. I really like the projector (when its working properly) so I'm leaning towards the former.

Spoke with both 2ndAct and Marantz and they are being very accomodating. Since they are out of stock I may have to go with warranty repair (and be without a projector for a month) or refund. I really like the projector (when its working properly) so I'm leaning towards the former.

One month is a long time for projector life and you could actually miss some great deal. I would get a refund as it looks like DMD engine problem and it is very unlikely that it won't be restored to factory standard. I've read many projector service manuals and you will be surprised at some of tolerances that are allowed. For example, some projectors are allow up to 4 dead/stuck pixels depending on their location.
I'm seeing some very good deal on new Marantz VP4001s for much less than what've paid for refurbished vp12s4 and they are a good alternatives.

One month is a long time for projector life and you could actually miss some great deal. I would get a refund as it looks like DMD engine problem and it is very unlikely that it won't be restored to factory standard. I've read many projector service manuals and you will be surprised at some of tolerances that are allowed. For example, some projectors are allow up to 4 dead/stuck pixels depending on their location.
I'm seeing some very good deal on new Marantz VP4001s for much less than what've paid for refurbished vp12s4 and they are a good alternatives.

Is the 4001 in the same class as the 12S4 as far as quality of parts and construction? The lens in the 12S4 is a great lens.

Is the 4001 in the same class as the 12S4 as far as quality of parts and construction? The lens in the 12S4 is a great lens.


No it is not in the same class as fas as quality construction but it will be close as fas as image qualiy is concerned. It may actually looks better for animated film since it can be brighter with iris opened.
The price I saw was 75% of VP12s4 and they were brand new and not refurbished.

I could not see on the image of nemo what you were referring to but it sounds like there is a problem.
Its good to hear that secondact/marantz are stepping up to the plate.
although i have not read all of the threads ,there are problems with the 4001 with regards to barrel distortion

That image was taken while I was waiting for the lines to show up. It takes about 20-25 minutes and unfortunately I had to leave for work before that happened. I will try and capture them on camera tonight and post a pic.

I sit one screen width away from my current PJ (1080p).

I was thinking about buying a cheaper 720p for viewing sports, and such. Are there any 720p PJs I would be able to sit that close, without SDE?

Art

adpayne ,

The Panasonic 720p LCD projectors with smoothscreen should handle that view distance for you , just don't expect a miracle when it comes to image quality ;) .

-- Jason

No it is not in the same class as fas as quality construction but it will be close as fas as image qualiy is concerned. It may actually looks better for animated film since it can be brighter with iris opened.
The price I saw was 75% of VP12s4 and they were brand new and not refurbished.

I knew the answer, but I did not want to start an argument if you thought the 4001 was in the same class. When you say new for 75% of the 12S4, are you talking about 75% of the 12S4 refurb price? If so that is a pretty good deal. You can get the Sharp DT-510 for a $100 cheaper though. It depends on how much you value the additional iris and the extra year of warranty.

Here are some pictures of the lines which show up after the projector has been on for about 30 minutes. They are very subtle but look carefully and you can see them:rolleyes:.

Still waiting to hear if 2nd Act can locate a replacement unit (even though they are OOS they are inquiring with Marantz).

The vp4001 looks like a really nice alternative but I want to rear shelf mount about 14' throw (planning on replacing the wall with a Dalite HP), really like the highend optics and flexibity of the lens shift, and am a little concerned about the reported "bowing". The extra brightness would be really nice for football season though.

Here are some pictures of the lines which show up after the projector has been on for about 30 minutes. They are very subtle but look carefully and you can see them:rolleyes:.

Still waiting to hear if 2nd Act can locate a replacement unit (even though they are OOS they are inquiring with Marantz).

The vp4001 looks like a really nice alternative but I want to rear shelf mount about 14' throw (planning on replacing the wall with a Dalite HP), really like the highend optics and flexibity of the lens shift, and am a little concerned about the reported "bowing". The extra brightness would be really nice for football season though.

In the first picture the lines were pretty even and I thought that was part of the picture. After looking at the third picture I released that the lines were the defect. The 12S4 is a really nice projector. I hope they can find another low hour unit for you. With so few hours (201) on the projector I would be tempted to have them repair it. A 200 hour projector is practically new.

The vp4001 looks like a really nice alternative but I want to rear shelf mount about 14' throw (planning on replacing the wall with a Dalite HP), really like the highend optics and flexibity of the lens shift, and am a little concerned about the reported "bowing". The extra brightness would be really nice for football season though.


The 4001 has almost no offset....you could shelf mount it, and then tip the projector down towards the floor and use keystone to correct..but you'd be really better off mounting it upside down, and then you wouldn't have any tilting to do....that is assuming your shelf will be near the top edge of your screen.

You can get a wall mount that lets you hang a projector inverted if you don't want to attach a mount to the ceiling.

As for the bowing, it depends on the lens you get and the amount of zoom you use...I have almost no bowing on my lens but if I throw up a test pattern I can make out some imperfections. Thing is, I dont watch test patterns generally :) So this stuff isn't visible on gaming/tv/movie watching. I know some folks had some extreme examples of this, however.

For the record the Sharp 510 is very similar to the VP4001 (which is a Sharp 3000)......and it can be found brand new in the $800 range....its a little dimmer and has 2, not 3 iris settings.....but my point: it also has a little bit of barrel distortion on the lens, or so the reports are claiming.

For what its worth, I'm not upgrading my 4001 anytime soon....its really an awesome projector that throws an incredible image......Darkchip 2+ with the manual IRIS system is the way to do, plus its really well calibrated right out of the box.

great jpegs for a first timer.
I also hope they find a replacement for you
I have not watched a movie yet on mine except some scenes from Toy Story, but I did watch the NBA finals last night and some of Jay Leno.
Compared to my yamaha lcd, the picture is sharper and the color fidelity/accuracy is awesome. this was much more evident when I poped in the DVD and less so with TV (BTW the NBA finals in HD by ABC was subpar in quality, but that is another topic).
With the lights down and for soprts viewing the brightness was good (ceiling mounted 15' back on a Dalite 106" high contrast cinema vision screen) but I wished for a little more at times. The yamaha was a little brighter. I personally do not care for the theater setting.
all in all happy with my purchase, but honestly for a lcd projector made in 2004, the Yamaha put out a damn good image.

adpayne ,

The Panasonic 720p LCD projectors with smoothscreen should handle that view distance for you , just don't expect a miracle when it comes to image quality ;) .

-- Jason

Thanks. I was afraid of that. My 1080p is an AE2000, and the smooth screen is great. I just don't want to run an LCD for long periods of time, to avoid panel damage. My previous PJs were DLP, and LCoS, and I ran those for hours will no problems. I guess either I wait a while and get a 1080p DLP, or get a 720p DLP and reduce the screen size while viewing that PJ.

Would I even be able to sit 1 screen width away from a 1080p DLP without seeing pixel structure?

Art

Personally I have to move to about 0.6-0.7x screen width to see SDE on a 1080p DLP on a white image. YMMV. (My regular viewing distance is 1.3x.)

Thanks. I was afraid of that. My 1080p is an AE2000, and the smooth screen is great. I just don't want to run an LCD for long periods of time, to avoid panel damage. My previous PJs were DLP, and LCoS, and I ran those for hours will no problems. I guess either I wait a while and get a 1080p DLP, or get a 720p DLP and reduce the screen size while viewing that PJ.

Would I even be able to sit 1 screen width away from a 1080p DLP without seeing pixel structure?

Art


Well you could get a decent 720p DLP with a good lens and defocus a little , give up a little sharpness for less pixel structure ;) .

That Marantz 8600 for $999 is a killer deal , but then so is the 4001 at $1099 .

-- Jason

...and thats why I didn't get a 'high level' 720p projector instead of a brand new 1080. My brother also got a 720 that was defective. Not worth the risk, why inherit someone elses problems?

just because your brother and this one individual on this board has had problems does not mean that all refurbs are bad. I have had issues with brand new units as well.
Getting the vp12s4 for 90% below MSRP was well worth the risk of any defects. It is akin to buying a used car. Let somebody else take the hit for the latest and greatest.
the most important thing wheather its new or refurbished is the customer service you receive afterwards

...and thats why I didn't get a 'high level' 720p projector instead of a brand new 1080. My brother also got a 720 that was defective. Not worth the risk, why inherit someone elses problems?

Your "brand new" 1080p is as prone to immediate or short-term failure as any refurb. So long as they repair, replace or refund its no different than buying a brand new unit.

I'm sorry maybe its just me and I'm surprised no one else has said anything, but I would have packed that unit up and shipped it back the same day.

That S4 has some serious problems with its DMD.

Here are some pictures of the lines which show up after the projector has been on for about 30 minutes. They are very subtle but look carefully and you can see them:rolleyes:.

Still waiting to hear if 2nd Act can locate a replacement unit (even though they are OOS they are inquiring with Marantz).

The vp4001 looks like a really nice alternative but I want to rear shelf mount about 14' throw (planning on replacing the wall with a Dalite HP), really like the highend optics and flexibity of the lens shift, and am a little concerned about the reported "bowing". The extra brightness would be really nice for football season though.

just because your brother and this one individual on this board has had problems does not mean that all refurbs are bad. I have had issues with brand new units as well.
Getting the vp12s4 for 90% below MSRP was well worth the risk of any defects. It is akin to buying a used car. Let somebody else take the hit for the latest and greatest.
the most important thing wheather its new or refurbished is the customer service you receive afterwards

I agree 100%. I also just bought an S4 from sec act with allot of hrs on bulb which started to dim very quickly. I called sec act and with no questions asked what so ever, they called Marantz and Marantz turned around and sent me a new bulb, the next day! Now thats customer service! Both sec act and Marantz are top notch when it comes to CS (AVS being #1).

Thats good to know Alex....always nice to hear about Customer Service stories. :-)

Thanks. I was afraid of that. My 1080p is an AE2000, and the smooth screen is great. I just don't want to run an LCD for long periods of time, to avoid panel damage. My previous PJs were DLP, and LCoS, and I ran those for hours will no problems. I guess either I wait a while and get a 1080p DLP, or get a 720p DLP and reduce the screen size while viewing that PJ.

Would I even be able to sit 1 screen width away from a 1080p DLP without seeing pixel structure?

ArtFirst of all, it's the polarizers, not the panels, that are the most susceptible to heat damage. Second, the AE2000 uses the latest Epson D7 inorganic panels which are supposed to be less prone to heat damage than the older organic ones. I've run my LCD PJs for as long as 8-10 hours, but not that frequently, and have not had any problems - my normal viewing period is 4-6 hours. You are still hanging on to the results of the very old TI study which ran the PJs continuously (24/7) - and was a somewhat flawed study.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting a "backup" 720p DLP PJ. You just need to get up to date on the technologies involved. From experience with my 720p DLP, I would say that the pixel structure (SDE), for a 720p DLP, is going to be only slightly visible (unless you have very sensitive eyes) at 1x screen width.

Actually, a second hand or refurbished 720p DLP for a good price (under ~$1K?) would be a good choice, since the newer ones have really turned me off with their large fixed negative offset (which doesn't work in my room).

As DaGamePimp said, you could always defocus slightly to get rid of the visible SDE. Reducing image size works too, of course (I can't see the SDE at 1.4x screen width using my 720p DLP).

Personally I have to move to about 0.6-0.7x screen width to see SDE on a 1080p DLP on a white image. YMMV. (My regular viewing distance is 1.3x.)

Thank you. Good to know. I'm extremely happy with my ae2000, but chances of panel degradation scare me out of running it for too long at one time. (Gotta stop reading the horror stories on AVS :) )

My previous DLP was an X1, and didn't know what the new 1080p models were capable of in regard to viewing distance.

Art

how many hours did you have alex ? Did they have you send in a screeshot of the hours for documentation ?
Good to hear that both second act and marantz stepped up to the plate. If only companies realized how much business/profits they gain with execellent customer service

...and thats why I didn't get a 'high level' 720p projector instead of a brand new 1080. My brother also got a 720 that was defective. Not worth the risk, why inherit someone elses problems?

Thats okay. I will take my practically new 58 hour refurbished DLP with extended warranty anytime over a new full cost projector. Heck if the projector is defective right off the bat, Second Act has offered a refund or repair to those that have had a problem. I don't see what you really have to loose. I have read about more new projectors that have had problems than I have read about refurb's that have had problems.

First of all, it's the polarizers, not the panels, that are the most susceptible to heat damage. Second, the AE2000 uses the latest Epson D7 inorganic panels which are supposed to be less prone to heat damage than the older organic ones. I've run my LCD PJs for as long as 8-10 hours, but not that frequently, and have not had any problems - my normal viewing period is 4-6 hours. You are still hanging on to the results of the very old TI study which ran the PJs continuously (24/7) - and was a somewhat flawed study.



Thanks for the response. I'm aware of the TI study you mentioned, but that isn't what caused me worry. Panasonic states that running the PJ for more than 6 hours, over time, will greatly reduce the lifespan of the internals. It may be a CYA statement, but it still gives one pause.

To ease your mind a little I have had LCD projectors with over 5000 hours on them with no signs of any problems. Now I have to say that the rooms these units were in was never above 80 degrees and were always run in high fan mode with regular filter maintenance.;)

We are talking about hours on the projector not the bulb. How many hours were on the projector?

I took a look again. The projector has 19 hours total on it. The bulb may be new as the life says 1999, or the hours were just reset. My S4 looks and appears to be almost brand new. I will hopefully have her mounted in the next few days and I will report on the PQ then.

I took a look again. The projector has 19 hours total on it. The bulb may be new as the life says 1999, or the hours were just reset. My S4 looks and appears to be almost brand new. I will hopefully have her mounted in the next few days and I will report on the PQ then.

Isn't it great. Refurb prices for practically new projectors. :)

Yeah , a $15K PJ for $1200 is tough to beat :D .

-- Jason

Yeah , a $15K PJ for $1200 is tough to beat :D .

-- Jason

$1150 is even better. Second Act has a $50.00 off coupon that I used when I purchased mine. You can find it on Dealcatcher.com

$1150 is even better. Second Act has a $50.00 off coupon that I used when I purchased mine. You can find it on Dealcatcher.com

I used the same coupon. Great isn't it?:)

Jprog I had almost 600 hrs on the bulb and yes I wish every one had the same CS as AVS.

UPS picked up the 12s4 on thursday and its heading to Marantz. 2nd Act went the extra mile and found a replacement from them. Once Marantz receives the original they will ship out the replacement so I should get it hopefully this upcoming week. Thanks for the support and I'll let you know how the new one works out. Based on the picture I saw for the first 30 minutes that the 12s4 was working (each time) it will be worth all the trouble.

again,
good to hear that they stood by their product. Based on your experience alone, I will buy from them again. As the mastercard commercial goes -- customer service - "priceless"

UPS picked up the 12s4 on thursday and its heading to Marantz. 2nd Act went the extra mile and found a replacement from them. Once Marantz receives the original they will ship out the replacement so I should get it hopefully this upcoming week. Thanks for the support and I'll let you know how the new one works out. Based on the picture I saw for the first 30 minutes that the 12s4 was working (each time) it will be worth all the trouble.

I think you made the right decision, sticking with a 12S4. For the money this is one fantastic projector.

I think you made the right decision, sticking with a 12S4. For the money this is one fantastic projector.

I couldn't agree more!:)

I got the new one in yesterday and it works perfectly. Looks almost brand new and only has 6 hours on the bulb and only 29 on the projector! I am very happy and it was definitely worth the trouble (I was very close to just asking for a refund). 2nd act and marantz came through with flying colors. Thanks all for the support. Now off to watch some movies....

Guys

All excellent answers and VERY helpful. You just gave me enough ammunition to pull the trigger on a 720P projector. Thats really cool since I can have it NOW and feel good about making an informed decision on what's best for ME. I think that's the key for all of us here as needs and wants differ. It's just really amazing that we are finally at a point where these are affordable for us now where they were not just a short time ago.

Now that the decision is made to go with a 720 unit I'm not clear on older 720p unit's VS newer ones. To recap I'll be viewing from 11'6" on a 106" screen with room for a long throw( up to 18'). Room has total light control. Budget is $1200 for the projector. I have been eyeing the HC1500. Any other better choices for that budget.

Thanks

My setup sounds like yours....viewing distance is a little further than mine though.....screen size....total light control....is all the same....I am completly in love with my HC1500....I think I paid right at $1200 for it from curcuit city (had to order it online) ...the total included a 2 year warranty....the warranty even covered the bulb!!!!...I think the warranty was $200 bucks ....Enjoy!!

I got the new one in yesterday and it works perfectly. Looks almost brand new and only has 6 hours on the bulb and only 29 on the projector! I am very happy and it was definitely worth the trouble (I was very close to just asking for a refund). 2nd act and marantz came through with flying colors. Thanks all for the support. Now off to watch some movies....

$1,200 for this projector. Great deal wasn't it.:)

Where are you guys looking at refurbished units at??? thanks

Where are you guys looking at refurbished units at??? thanks

As far as I know they are all gone. integr8or bought one earlier and it messed up on him. Second Act got with Marantz and they were able to get him another one. Best of all the replacement projector was practically new.

As far as I know they are all gone. integr8or bought one earlier and it messed up on him. Second Act got with Marantz and they were able to get him another one. Best of all the replacement projector was practically new.

Thats what im asking though....Where are they all gone from??? Where are people getting them at?

Take the space out of second act and add the dot com. ;)

Take the space out of second act and add the dot com. ;)

thanks much

$1,200 for this projector. Great deal wasn't it.:)

Hi MJG,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner but yes I am extremely happy :) with my purchase. Huge upgrade (imho) over my previous if4805 in every way. Much more 3d and the colors are amazing. I really can't imagine needing or wanting to upgrade any time soon.

My next purchase looks to be a HP screen in the near future (probably 92" wide) as it seems to be the perfect match for this projector.

Hi MJG,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner but yes I am extremely happy :) with my purchase. Huge upgrade (imho) over my previous if4805 in every way. Much more 3d and the colors are amazing. I really can't imagine needing or wanting to upgrade any time soon.

My next purchase looks to be a HP screen in the near future (probably 92" wide) as it seems to be the perfect match for this projector.

I am using my 12S4 with a 106" HP. Throw of 14'-2". Nice bright image even when using economy and f5.0

hey is a mits hc1500 to a yamaha LPX-510 an upgrade?

i can buy the marantz 8600 for 1000$ refurbished,with the extented warranty for 500$ parts and labor and bulb for 3 years or just the projector?
1500$ for everything or 1000$ for the projector.

i can buy the marantz 8600 for 1000$ refurbished,with the extented warranty for 500$ parts and labor and bulb for 3 years or just the projector?
1500$ for everything or 1000$ for the projector.

Get just the projector and shop around for the extended warranty. I paid $260 for my four year projector (starts after 1 yr. manufacturers warranty so projector is covered for 5 years total), three year bulb warranty and I have read about people getting a better deal than I did.

Thats okay. I will take my practically new 58 hour refurbished DLP with extended warranty anytime over a new full cost projector. Heck if the projector is defective right off the bat, Second Act has offered a refund or repair to those that have had a problem. I don't see what you really have to loose. I have read about more new projectors that have had problems than I have read about refurb's that have had problems.

I almost ALWAYS buy refurbs over new...why?
New electronic devices are mass-produced and given a cursory check-out. They are then sold.
Refurbs are sent back to the factory and, in fact, become almost a custom-made device. They have first gone through a burn-in for some of their components (light engines have de-gassed their plastic vapors and when the color wheels are replaced, they say fresh longer than new units) and are then rigorously bench-tested to ensure specs are met. This NEVER happens to the mass-produced model.

I rarely have ever had problems with refurbs and with a strong warranty, I'm just as good as buying a new unit...with more insurance that the device has been thoroughly tested, rather than go through a quick once-over.

I'm waiting for my DT-510 ($600) to arrive. I think that's a good deal.

My next purchase will be a laser pj (when they come out in front models...the Microvision model is a bit small for me)...and I'll wait a while for it.

While I also like to buy refurbs, the last 2 refurbished devices I've bought...have both had issues right out of the box, so while I think you are right that SOME places re-check the defectives, some places simply rubber stamp them.