CECB's are simply not suitable for use in a decent A/V system.

When digital broadcasting began some years ago I tried to find a receiver so I could take advantage of the Dolby digital audio. I couldn't find one that would play nice with non-hdtv so I gave up on it. I was very hopeful when all the new equipment started arriving. It's disappointing to find all this stuff is restricted to serve only the lowest common denominator with no digital audio or component video. I can live with s-video but not having optical or coaxial digital audio is a deal-breaker for me.

There's a ton of info available for these crippled CECB's but is there a comprehensive list of non-crippled converters? I'm still hoping to find a reasonably priced alternative worthy of use in a system that's beyond a stand-alone bedroom TV.

Unfortunately, there is no in-between right now. Either you pay for a Samsung H260 which run about $170 new, or you end up with a CECB. IMO there is definitely a market for products between those extremes but it is unfortunately completely ignored by manufacturers at this time.

/rant on
This is the US government's fault. They're dangling millions of dollars in exchange for crippled hardware, and the manufacturers are falling all over themselves to cash in. Had the government actually, you know, thought this through then we wouldn't be in the situation we're in. There should have been a graduated coupon program, where the more advanced the box you purchased the less the coupon was worth. That serves everyone. But alas, that would have required some activity in the gray matter to think of such a thing...
/rant off

Fortunately, this debacle should work it's way through the system when the coupon program ends. At that point, manufacturers should come to market with boxes that aren't absurdly crippled.

These issues have been discussed ad-nauseum in many, many threads here. No need for another one. Please take some time to READ here.

I have had no problem finding decent receivers for use with AV systems.

CECB's are simply not suitable for use in a decent A/V system.

That was and is never their purpose. The purpose was to keep NTSC sets in service for their lifetime.

When digital broadcasting began some years ago I tried to find a receiver so I could take advantage of the Dolby digital audio. I couldn't find one that would play nice with non-hdtv so I gave up on it. I was very hopeful when all the new equipment started arriving. It's disappointing to find all this stuff is restricted to serve only the lowest common denominator with no digital audio or component video. I can live with s-video but not having optical or coaxial digital audio is a deal-breaker for me.

There's a ton of info available for these crippled CECB's but is there a comprehensive list of non-crippled converters? I'm still hoping to find a reasonably priced alternative worthy of use in a system that's beyond a stand-alone bedroom TV.


Check out Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC tuner

thread here at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728392

Thanks doublejack and johnpost. I know about the Samsung. Too bad there's no middle ground since I don't need or want full hdtv reception.

Sorry bdfox, although I've been steadily READING here for days, all I'm finding is CECB's discussed ad nauseum. Info on non-crippled boxes is hard to find. It appears now that Channel Master folded to the feds, there's nothing available. That's why I'm asking you people who know the market if you know of one single list of available non-crippled components buried in the overwhelming glut of info on crippled junk.

We'll have to wait until the coupon program is over. Then the free market can run it's course and we'll have a better selection of boxes. For not it's either the Sammy or......well you said it:D

Here's a non-CECB in the middle ground, with digital audio and 480i video, though I haven't seen any reviews of it:

Tivax STB-T1
http://www.diamondhdtv.com/tivaxdigitaltvreceivertuner.aspx

Thanks! I'm going to check that out. It's more like I've been looking for. Not crippled by the government coupon program. Don't know how I've missed it all this time.

The silver lining. I expect the high volume of the CECB boxes to lead to boxes w/ more features at very reasonable prices when the current program winds down.

I have no problem enjoying the stereo sound that comes out of my CECB and goes to my A/V receiver. It seems to be better than the stereo sound that I get from the analog broadcasts.

The Tivax STB-T1 sure seems to have a lot for the price. It shows how overpriced the CECB boxes are.

The Tivax STB-T1 looks much better. Thanks for that tip jll544.

Mike, have you ever checked out the A-B difference between digital audio routed through patch cords vs. an optical cable? Night and day.

Info on non-crippled boxes is hard to find. .


That's because by the rules these boxes must be in effect "crippled".

Do an Ebay Search for "lg lst-3510a". I have a bunch of these and if you are patient they can be had for a reasonable price.

my $60 in-between solution was a used samsung DVD recorder, with 5.1 audio.

my coupons expire in 21 days, I'll pick up a zenith for my mono TV, but as for which one I will buy for the home theater setup, I have no idea. I would like to have something to watch another digital station while the DVD recorder is recording.

Thanks doublejack and johnpost. I know about the Samsung. Too bad there's no middle ground since I don't need or want full hdtv reception.

Sorry bdfox, although I've been steadily READING here for days, all I'm finding is CECB's discussed ad nauseum. Info on non-crippled boxes is hard to find. It appears now that Channel Master folded to the feds, there's nothing available. That's why I'm asking you people who know the market if you know of one single list of available non-crippled components buried in the overwhelming glut of info on crippled junk.

Don't feel bad for asking...most folks don't mind offering assistance.

Speaking of disappointments; the CM7000 really is a let down. The only screen options are 4:3 letterbox and 16:9. I tried it on 3 TV's and all
of them only display a picture that covers about 1/2 of the screen. It pulls in the digital stations well and quickly, but the display is not what I expected.:(

Speaking of disappointments; the CM7000 really is a let down. The only screen options are 4:3 letterbox and 16:9.

Are you sure of that? CM-7000 was previously described as having four picture modes. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13540393#post13540393)

The Tivax STB-T1 looks much better. Thanks for that tip jll544.

Mike, have you ever checked out the A-B difference between digital audio routed through patch cords vs. an optical cable? Night and day.

As a matter of fact, I have on sources available to me. Mostly the difference is in how "loud" and whether or not Dolby Digital is available for the optical. I'll take DD over Dolby Prologic anytime (Dolby Prologic over either analog or PCM via the digital audio input).

If you were "picky" enough, some of the CECBs aren't too bad. I'll grant that I would also prefer S-Video over composite, but the picture difference isn't that large. I'm pretty satisfied with the CECBs I've tried, and while the Samsung DTB-H260F is great as an HDTV tuner, it sucks for the CECB role on a 4:3 TV. And the Samsung is hardly usable at all without component or HDMI inputs on your display.

My view is like some of the other posters - once the CECB program goes away, then we'll see some more range on decent boxes. The CECBs are serving a purpose, and for the most part, all of them WILL let analog only tuner TVs keep functioning until they quit operating.

Hey jll544, I see the problem now. I tried it on 3 4:3 CRT Tv's, and the broadcasts were SD TV, so only options I had were 4:3 (Letterboxed) and 16:9, I looked at a station broadcasting HDTV and got full screen in the 4:3 mode. Longer I live the dumber I get. Thanks



Dave E

Oooops! Did some more experimenting with the CM7000 and it seems to be dependant on what the
station is broadcasting. Some only broadcasting SD at 4:3 and you can't change it. However, going through
all 15 channels it scanned and loaded, I found a lot of them would run through all four options. If it is in HD
to start with - that's the only option you get. Has the zoom 1 zoom 2 letterbox, full, squeezed, etc.

Here's a non-CECB in the middle ground, with digital audio and 480i video, though I haven't seen any reviews of it:

Tivax STB-T1
http://www.diamondhdtv.com/tivaxdigitaltvreceivertuner.aspx
The model you linked is the Tivax STB-T1 for $85 + 9.95 shipping. Best I can tell it came out Summer of '07 and will be being discontinued. For the time being the replacement for this will be the full HD Tivax LX1000. I believe the only place to get this model is direct from Tivax for $99 + 9.95 shipping. I was told it is quite new and currently only in limited quantities. I called 1-888-33TIVAX and ordered one. Wish me luck! I'll post on it after I've received and played with it for a while. I really wanted a converter box that had a display and this one had HD to boot:)
http://www.tivax.com/converter.htm

I called 1-888-33TIVAX and ordered one.
http://www.tivax.com/converter.htm

Please let us know your thoughts jjeff.

jjeff, were you able to find any information on type of tuner and/or what generation it might be? I've been trying to find out several things about this box but there's nothing out there. Neither Diamond HDTV or Tivax seem to have any answers and there's conflicting information. The main thing I was trying to find out is if it really has both coax and optical digital audio outputs like Diamond says on their ebay page. Either way, it looks a whole lot better box than a crippled up CECB with some kind of digital audio and component video.

This thing does look like it will do what I need it to do, and from your info, it sounds it may quickly become a snooze and lose situation so I just ordered one from Diamond for $85 + 9.99 shipping. It seems like they have them in stock because I received order confirmation and payment receipt in the email already.

Edit: jjeff, I misread your message. I thought you ordered the STB T1. That's what I ordered.

Will do. I guess I'll have to start a thread on the LX1000 since their really isn't one on AVS(or anywhere else I could find). I suppose it should go in the "HDTV technical" forum though, since it's HD. The STB-T1 would be a grey area, since it's not coupon eligible but not HD either. The Tivax rep did say they would be having a couple more boxes coming out shortly, but the STB-T9 would be the only coupon eligible one.

I'll be excited to try the LX1000. Truthfully I don't know a lot about it other than it's HD, has component, HDMI and optical audio out. Really more than I need for my SD Sony Wega TV with component inputs but I really wanted the display on the unit. I'll do most of my testing and picture comparisons on my 32" Panasonic HD LCD.

Edit: Don I was also looking at the STB-T1 but for only $15 more I figured I'd get the LX1000 which is HD. I figured even if I didn't need the HD it was one generation newer than the STB-T1. When I asked the rep. if their was any advantage to getting the STB-1 other than the $15 savings she just said if you need HD get the 1000, if not get the T1......I know not too helpful. I don't think a person can go wrong with either but again I figured for only $15 extra I'd get the new one. Sounded like mine would be shipping tomorrow. On the audio point, the Tivax site just said "Digital audio output: SPDIF (AC3 or PCM) " whatever that means?
I'll only be using the L+R audio, at least for now.

Funny thing, Tivax doesn't even list the STB-T1 on their site. I suppose that's because it does have a very limited shelf life at this point.

The LX1000 has both digital outputs so I'm hoping the STB-T1 does too. If not, I'll deal with it by thinning out optical devices or using an adapter. I was thinking about getting the LX1000 but I won't need HD for a while yet. I don't plan to do any replacements or upgrades until the older bedroom TV goes out. I'm sure a new one will come equipped with full HD, whenever it happens.

It will be interesting comparing notes on these non-CECB units. I'll look forward to learning about yours.

I think your right. Either box seems worlds above a CECB and for not that much more money(not including the coupon).

Don, someone on another thread pointed out that the LX1000 may not have QAM, while the one you ordered STB-T1 specifically states QAM. It doesn't matter to me since I'm only OTA, but it sure would matter to some. I'll report when I get mine. Got the USP conformation this afternoon and I should have it within 7 days. I can't wait!

Hi jjeff. Since the nearest cable drop is over 25 miles away and they've made exactly zero progress about extending the CATV system in the last 15 years, I don't think my QAM tuner will be doing me much good.

I got a USPS notice in the email. They sent mine 2-3 day priority mail so I'll probably have a new toy to fiddle around with this weekend :D

Mike, have you ever checked out the A-B difference between digital audio routed through patch cords vs. an optical cable? Night and day.

You're not talking about hearing a difference between digital audio over coax to digital audio over optical cable, are you?:eek:

No. I'm talking about an optical audio connection or a digital coax vs. plain ol' RCA-plugged R/L stereo cords.