Right now I don't have any room treatments. None. I'm working on that. I know I've got reflection issues issues. I can tell. But I don't have any equipment to measure anything.

Can I just assume a totally untreated room needs bass traps? I think I've heard that. I was thinking about putting 2 of them in the corners in the pic there.

I just don't want to waste the money on them if I don't need them.

http://www.almost7.com/front.jpg

http://www.almost7.com/rear.jpg

Of course you need bass traps. What kind of a question is that ? :)

I don't think that two bass traps is going to be sufficient unless you fill the corners from ground to ceiling height with rigid fiberglass. A rule of thumb is that the smaller the room the more bass trapping is required. Reflections that cause standing waves are stronger as the walls get closer and so greater coverage is needed in most cases.

One area that many people I've seen neglect to treat is the ceiling to wall corners in their room. The more you treat the flatter the bass response will be, decay times will be reduced and bass will sound tighter and more defined. If possible, I would also treat the first reflection points too.

Nice room btw.

--Regards,

You probably need wideband absorption just as much as bass traps. An untreated HT room is generally way too "live" to be accurate.

Regards,
Terry

Can I just assume a totally untreated room needs bass traps?

Yes, and measuring your room will quickly prove the point. Even faster than measuring your room is to find measurements of other rooms. I'll make it even easier still for you. The graph below shows the bass response in an untreated room similar in size to yours. This graph shows both the raw response and also the ringing - the "mountains" come forward over time. Note all the huge peak/null spans below 200 Hz as well as the ringing at the peak frequencies. Some of the nulls are so deep they're off the bottom of the graph. And this graph spans a range of 30 dB! :D

--Ethan

http://www.realtraps.com/art_etf2.gif

Thank you guys. Man this hobby is a sinkhole. Now I'm wondering how to explain to my wife that I need to trap the bass that I begged her so desperately to put down there in the first place!

If I were only going to go with a few now and add as I go, where would be the best place to put them. Right up front there on the floor? Or up high? Where would the best placement be initially?

Thank you guys. Man this hobby is a sinkhole. Now I'm wondering how to explain to my wife that I need to trap the bass that I begged her so desperately to put down there in the first place!

If I were only going to go with a few now and add as I go, where would be the best place to put them. Right up front there on the floor? Or up high? Where would the best placement be initially?

I would say in the front corners from floor to ceiling, then the rear corners also floor to ceiling, but you really should invest in some software that will provide real time analysis such that you can evaluate the effect the bass traps are having. It could be that another location in your room will yeild better results.

I'm not Ethan or Terry but I'll offer my advice. In each corner I would have one bass trap straddle the corner mounted above speaker height. Looking at the first picture I'm not sure if you'll be able to treat the corner from floor to ceiling height given the space limitations.

I would try to tackle as many ceiling to wall corners as possible. I would tackle the ceiling as well.

--Regards,

When you go to explain it, here's the scoop.

It's not just about frequency response, it's about decay time and cancellations. When bass is left unchecked, it bounces around and combines with itself both constructively (peaks) and destructively (nulls). By absorbing some of it in the proper places (corners are not the only place), you actually will end up with more, deeper, more articulate bass - as well as easier to understand dialog and less variation between dialog and 'effects'.

Your speakers are very very close to the side wall which can also cause bass anomolies. The front wall is untreated so you have surround effects reflecting and mixing with the front soundstage thereby smearing things.

Terry is absolutely correct (as always) that it's not just bass absorbtion. It's an entire treatment scheme to yield a proper decay time across the entire spectrum based on the usage of the room, it's size, what's in it, how it's constructed, etc. It's also necessary to deal with reflections as you said - but not all of them are on the side walls just as not all bass anomolies are caused by and easily treated by dealing with the corners.

Bryan

If I were only going to go with a few now and add as I go, where would be the best place to put them. Right up front there on the floor? Or up high? Where would the best placement be initially?

Are you just adding a few due to budget, or because you just want to go gradually? I ask because a moderate amount of bass trapping may not be very effective. Depending on how bad the room is, you might need to do a lot more. So if it's a budget thing, you might be better served just to wait, or to focus on other problems with the room acoustics. In any case, the first thing to do would be to get set up to make some measurements of your current response.

Do you have any EQ for your subs in your setup at the moment?

Are you just adding a few due to budget, or because you just want to go gradually? I ask because a moderate amount of bass trapping may not be very effective. Depending on how bad the room is, you might need to do a lot more. So if it's a budget thing, you might be better served just to wait, or to focus on other problems with the room acoustics. In any case, the first thing to do would be to get set up to make some measurements of your current response.

Do you have any EQ for your subs in your setup at the moment?

Well in all honesty, the room already sounds good to me, and I'm very aprehensive about spending the money if it already sounds good. I'm not discounting the advice given above at all, but a guy like me is lucky to have the theater I have to start with. I'm just not really at the point in my life where I can drop 1000 on room treatments, especially if I'm ignorant about the benefits it would add.

Now, I did add some inexpensive sound tiles last night and could immediately hear the difference, but I spent a total of 200 on these. Really I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck.

Even if I buy some of the cheaper nice bass traps I've seen, we're talking over 600 dollars just to get the corners covered. I'm not sure if I should be spending 1000 on treatments, especially since my speaker setup is entry level at best (Polk Monitors, the newer ones)

Right now I don't have any EQ on my subs.

I'm really appreciating all of the advice and I am heeding it carefully, I just don't have the disposible income like I used to and I really need to make my dollars stretch.

Almost all residential listening rooms need broadband absorption.

You can save some money by building them yourself if you don't want to buy premade.

A cheap (or free) way to evaluate if it will help in your room is go buy some insulation
at a building supply store. Buy fiberglass (or rockwool) insulation (roll or batts - doesn't matter).
Try to find packages that have the plastic intact (mostly so you don't get loose fibers in your room). Leave it in the packaging - you want it to be compressed. Put it in corners - cover with an old sheet if you want to make it look a little more presentable.

I'm almost positive you will hear more impact and clearer bass. If not, you can use the insulation to insulate your house, or return the unopened packages. If you hear a difference then you can make or buy more attractive traps if you want.

Now, I did add some inexpensive sound tiles last night and could immediately hear the difference, but I spent a total of 200 on these. Really I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck.


I think the way you're going makes sense. I wouldn't spend on bass trapping until you've made some measurements to see what sorts of issues you have.


Even if I buy some of the cheaper nice bass traps I've seen, we're talking over 600 dollars just to get the corners covered. I'm not sure if I should be spending 1000 on treatments, especially since my speaker setup is entry level at best (Polk Monitors, the newer ones)


I think DIY is the way to go for value. Ethan's site has some really good info on building absorbers. I guess my point before was that if you're going to do it, there's a good chance you'll need a lot of material to see appreciable results. If you can only go part of the way, you might just spend money without much benefit. I thought dknightd had a good suggestion for testing.


Right now I don't have any EQ on my subs.


This is one more tool to consider, although you'll definitely need to be able to make measurements to apply EQ. You can get a noticeable improvement from EQ even without traps.

Did I mention you should make some measurements? :D

Did I mention you should make some measurements? :D

Haha OK I'll bite. I guess I need to find some software I can throw on a laptop and a mic. Is that how that works? I guess the software would output test tones out of the laptop via a connect to my AVR then?

I'll go looking through the threads here, but if anyone knows of anything free or easy I could try let me know.

Do a google search for "REW" or "Room EQ". ;) Be sure to read the help files and glance to the sticky at the top of the forum before posting any questions please.

roomeqwizard is free and probably suits your needs.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

To be honest, while measurements can be important, for fine tuning, likely you'll find
you measure something like what Ethan posted above. Most small rooms have many modes spaced close together - you can try to absorb specific frequencies, and that might be helpfull for the major room modes - but - You almost certainly need broadband (bass) absorption. You'll need to measure to EQ your subs, so if they
don't have something built in buy a mic, but don't wait to measure - Put masses of absorber where ever they fit (cover them with plastic or something if you are concerned about too much high frequency absorbtion)

When it comes to first reflection points - use thick material, if you are going to absorb anything make sure it is not just treble.