This is a completely amateur question, but as I'm about to drop $2-4k on a new plasma (Kuro), I think it's an important one. Why is it that online retailers are able to sell these plasmas for such a dramatic price difference than my local stores? I've asked the local stores during my bargaining process with them, and they mumble around about overhead and being an "Official Pioneer dealer," but they are ultimately unable to give me a good reason. Is this simply an issue of overhead? Is there any downside to buying from an online dealer (as long as it's a reputable one?) Many of you seem very satisfied with using some of the forum sponsors.

I hope this is a "legal" topic of discussion. I know there are rules about discussing pricing, but I think this is outside of that realm.

Personally, I had no issue buying my plasma from a forum sponsor.

Consider the fact that even if the online retailer offers you the same price as the B&M store, if the online retailer doesn't have a store in the state you live in, you're saving money by not having to pay sales tax.

Now, the B&M store has to pay rent, electricity, employee salaries, insurance for said employees as well as keeping stock and all of the other overhead that goes along with having a physical address.

An online retailer can set up a website from their home, work out a deal with a warehouse to ship directly and keep nothing "in stock". Then when the order comes in, they contact the warehouse and ship directly to you. In my personal experience, the forum sponsor I worked with was in Seattle, but my TV shipped directly from PA.

The one major convenience to going B&M is if there is a problem, you have 30 days to return it, no questions asked.

Also, you mentioned that the local stored mentioned being an "Official Pioneer Dealer", hate to break it to you but several of the forum sponsors on this site are Authorized Pioneer Dealers.

Check this site for additional information:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/FindStore/Buy+Pioneer+Products+on+the+Internet

Hope this helps.

This is a completely amateur question, but as I'm about to drop $2-4k on a new plasma (Kuro), I think it's an important one. Why is it that online retailers are able to sell these plasmas for such a dramatic price difference than my local stores? I've asked the local stores during my bargaining process with them, and they mumble around about overhead and being an "Official Pioneer dealer," but they are ultimately unable to give me a good reason. Is this simply an issue of overhead? Is there any downside to buying from an online dealer (as long as it's a reputable one?) Many of you seem very satisfied with using some of the forum sponsors.

I hope this is a "legal" topic of discussion. I know there are rules about discussing pricing, but I think this is outside of that realm.

I don't know If the Best Buy manager was hungry on the day I bought my Pioneer 5080 but, he matched the best quote I obtained from all the authorized Pioneer internet retailers. It was a brand new set. Not a demo or out of box unit. I did pay an extra $60 for delivery, set-up, integration of my other components and demo session. I also didn't have to keep the house size shipping container. I tried to get them to match price on a 5010 but they wouldn't. He said their profit in the 5080 was the highest of all the Pioneer models.

This is a completely amateur question, but as I'm about to drop $2-4k on a new plasma (Kuro), I think it's an important one. Why is it that online retailers are able to sell these plasmas for such a dramatic price difference than my local stores? I've asked the local stores during my bargaining process with them, and they mumble around about overhead and being an "Official Pioneer dealer," but they are ultimately unable to give me a good reason. Is this simply an issue of overhead? Is there any downside to buying from an online dealer (as long as it's a reputable one?) Many of you seem very satisfied with using some of the forum sponsors.

I hope this is a "legal" topic of discussion. I know there are rules about discussing pricing, but I think this is outside of that realm.


The truth is that most of the on-line dealers are selling their panels directly from shipping cans sitting on fenced in lots. That's how they cut overhead, with no warehouses or storage facilites. Also they deal with freight companies directly for shipping, there is no such thing as "real" white glove delivery with most on-line dealers. They also do not take returns of any kind, if a panel has a problem, your stuck dealing with the company that made the panel, not the seller. The bottom line is your taking a greater risk to save some cash, for some it works out great, for others not so much. The forum sponsors are a good place to start but even they will tell you that problems do happen. You need understand that you are rolling the dice to save some cash and be willing to deal with the problems if you end up rolling snakeyes. So far my own experience with buying on-line couldn't be going much worse, the 1st panel came with a broken screen and I had to refuse delivery. The
2nds glass was fine, but has had major picture problems. Over the last month, I've missed 6 half days of work to meet repair techs and their 6 hour service windows, al while they randomly switch out boards in hopes of getting luckly and actually fixing the problem. It's seems that Panasonics repair plan is to change out every board in the panel at random. So you can take it for what it's worth, for me it wasn't worth it, for someone else that didn't get a bad panel, it probably was. Just understand the risk before you decide.

I was able to purchase my Kuro 1150 NIB at Tweeter for less than the cost of a 5080 at BB. Great deals can be found from B&M stores and returns tend to be less of a hassle if something is wrong. Not to discount online stores at all though, there are some great ones out there and you have the benefit of everyone's experience with them on this forum. Just get the best deal you can.

The bottom line is your taking a greater risk to save some cash, for some it works out great, for others not so much.
Wow couldn't disagree more.
Imo, online and b&m are pretty much the same thing.
Your statements about online dealers not taking returns is a gross exaggeration.
There is a wide disparity in the online dealer policy just like b&m dealers return policies.

Ive had one forum sponsor ship me 3 different samsung dlps until i was satisfied. 1st had a bad hdmi board, 2nd shipping damage, 3rd the charm. I also recently returned a sony lcos tv back to vanns for a full refund because of screen abnormalities.

I've also had a local b&m refuse to take a return when a sony tv i had blew its bulb within the 30 day return policy, he made me deal with sony. (which worked out ok btw)

So for me online or b&m is exactly the same, you make your order, you wait for delivery. When sh1t happens your choice in vendor will determine what kind of experience you will have, not necessarily whether they are local to you or not.

This is a completely amateur question, but as I'm about to drop $2-4k on a new plasma (Kuro), I think it's an important one. Why is it that online retailers are able to sell these plasmas for such a dramatic price difference than my local stores? I've asked the local stores during my bargaining process with them, and they mumble around about overhead and being an "Official Pioneer dealer," but they are ultimately unable to give me a good reason. Is this simply an issue of overhead? Is there any downside to buying from an online dealer (as long as it's a reputable one?) Many of you seem very satisfied with using some of the forum sponsors.

I hope this is a "legal" topic of discussion. I know there are rules about discussing pricing, but I think this is outside of that realm.

You just hit the nail on the head! It is overhead. Also most online retailers are happy with making a 3%-10% margin, rather than 15%-20% margin. The display market is a quantity driven market for online retailers. Another reason is that the competition is very high.

Also another situation that retailers will face is MAP Pricing (Minimum Advertised Pricing) (http://www.solidcactus.com/map-pricing.html). Pioneer wants to mandate and adhere the integrity of their prices from retailers.

Lastly there is no issues with buying from online retailers. The transactions are very safe and you should have no issues.

Chris

Wow couldn't disagree more.
Imo, online and b&m are pretty much the same thing.
Your statements about online dealers not taking returns is a gross exaggeration.
There is a wide disparity in the online dealer policy just like b&m dealers return policies.

Ive had one forum sponsor ship me 3 different samsung dlps until i was satisfied. 1st had a bad hdmi board, 2nd shipping damage, 3rd the charm. I also recently returned a sony lcos tv back to vanns for a full refund because of screen abnormalities.

I've also had a local b&m refuse to take a return when a sony tv i had blew its bulb within the 30 day return policy, he made me deal with sony. (which worked out ok btw)

So for me online or b&m is exactly the same, you make your order, you wait for delivery. When sh1t happens your choice in vendor will determine what kind of experience you will have, not necessarily whether they are local to you or not.

Did you have to pay for shipping on any of your returns? Did you have to pack it yourself or did they send someone to do it? These are two concerns of mine with online vendors.

Wow couldn't disagree more.
Imo, online and b&m are pretty much the same thing.
Your statements about online dealers not taking returns is a gross exaggeration.
There is a wide disparity in the online dealer policy just like b&m dealers return policies.

Ive had one forum sponsor ship me 3 different samsung dlps until i was satisfied. 1st had a bad hdmi board, 2nd shipping damage, 3rd the charm. I also recently returned a sony lcos tv back to vanns for a full refund because of screen abnormalities.

I've also had a local b&m refuse to take a return when a sony tv i had blew its bulb within the 30 day return policy, he made me deal with sony. (which worked out ok btw)

So for me online or b&m is exactly the same, you make your order, you wait for delivery. When sh1t happens your choice in vendor will determine what kind of experience you will have, not necessarily whether they are local to you or not.


I would love to hear who this forum sponser is, because all the forum sponsers I've talked to have said the same exact thing. That is other than physical damage before delivery acceptance all other problems are delt with through the product Warranty. If you know of a Forum Sponser that does things differently I'd love to know who it is?

Wow couldn't disagree more.
Imo, online and b&m are pretty much the same thing.
Your statements about online dealers not taking returns is a gross exaggeration.
There is a wide disparity in the online dealer policy just like b&m dealers return policies.

Ive had one forum sponsor ship me 3 different samsung dlps until i was satisfied. 1st had a bad hdmi board, 2nd shipping damage, 3rd the charm. I also recently returned a sony lcos tv back to vanns for a full refund because of screen abnormalities.

I've also had a local b&m refuse to take a return when a sony tv i had blew its bulb within the 30 day return policy, he made me deal with sony. (which worked out ok btw)

So for me online or b&m is exactly the same, you make your order, you wait for delivery. When sh1t happens your choice in vendor will determine what kind of experience you will have, not necessarily whether they are local to you or not.

Yes, many online vendors are very flexible on returns and replacements, but how much did you spend on all the extra shipping charges? I'm still flip-flopping on canceling my Amazon order, but if I choose a different online vendor and the TV exhibits screen issues suddenly the costs start piling up. By returning just 1 TV you end up paying return shipping costs, insurance, AND shipping for the replacement TV. There goes another several hundred dollars and all of your savings.

Amazon appears to be the only vendor that either absorbs the replacement shipping, or subsidizes it so your out-of-pocket expense is $67.50.

sorry i wasnt clear, it was an EX forum sponsor, tvauthority, who are out of business now.
They spoke to samsung for me and authorized the first return, then they covered the shipping damage for the second set.

Plasma concepts has a 14day policy as well, you just need sign off from the mfg, which was essentially what happend with my case. It just seems that plasma mfg are more picky with authorizing returns.

In the last 9 years, I must have purchased over a dozen tvs, for myself and for friends/family. It doesnt matter a damn where you go, online or off. I've picked good and bad vendors from either camp. Sad to say I've had better luck with online than b&m.

Yes, many online vendors are very flexible on returns and replacements, but how much did you spend on all the extra shipping charges? I'm still flip-flopping on canceling my Amazon order, but if I choose a different online vendor and the TV exhibits screen issues suddenly the costs start piling up. By returning just 1 TV you end up paying return shipping costs, insurance, AND shipping for the replacement TV. There goes another several hundred dollars and all of your savings.

I've paid zero for shipping. The same return delivery fees apply depending on who you buy from locally, some will charge for pickup as well.

I would love to hear who this forum sponser is, because all the forum sponsers I've talked to have said the same exact thing. That is other than physical damage before delivery acceptance all other problems are delt with through the product Warranty. If you know of a Forum Sponser that does things differently I'd love to know who it is?

Yes mostly all online retailers, including us handle defective items the same. You will get up to 24 to 48 hours to ensure that their is nothing wrong with your display after signing for the package.

We have to abide by all manufacturer or distributor policies. Some have up to 14 days if the display decides to malfunction. In most cases, the manufacturer's warranty will be provided as the first step of trying to fix the problem. If its beyond replaceable a new display will be provided, by either the manufacturer or retailer.

Now their comes a satisfaction policy, which most online retailers do not have. TigerDirect and a few other retailers will accept returns up to 90 days. Crutchfield, Amazon, Abt Electronics, etc...have 30-day return policies or customer satisfaction policies in place in case that you are not satisfied.

So there is a difference between a return on a defective item vs. non defective item.

Hopefully that helps...

Chris

I wish there was an alternative in between. If you want to do a 100 hour break-in and then see how the tv is functioning, you will need more than 24 hours. Many problems (streaks, buzz) seem to appear after a few days. A sponsor who could or has instituted a 14 day return policy would go a long way to address the uncertainty that comes with buying online.

I am hoping to buy a 9th generation Pioneer. I'd like to buy it very soon. I find myself in the unfortunate position of deciding between buying from a forum sponsor (and I would love to support them) and buying from someone with a lenient return policy --
or worst of all, waiting a few months.

I wish there was an alternative in between. If you want to do a 100 hour break-in and then see how the tv is functioning, you will need more than 24 hours. Many problems (streaks, buzz) seem to appear after a few days. A sponsor who could or has instituted a 14 day return policy would go a long way to address the uncertainty that comes with buying online.

I am hoping to buy a 9th generation Pioneer. I'd like to buy it very soon. I find myself in the unfortunate position of deciding between buying from a forum sponsor (and I would love to support them) and buying from someone with a lenient return policy --
or worst of all, waiting a few months.
Keep in mind...buying locally does not solve the problem. B&M will still resort to manufacturer's warranty policy on a defective items. However, they do have a customer satisfaction policy in place as well on non defective items as well. Its not who you buy through, its how the the defective item and situation is handle is most important.

Chris

I wish there was an alternative in between. If you want to do a 100 hour break-in and then see how the tv is functioning, you will need more than 24 hours. Many problems (streaks, buzz) seem to appear after a few days. A sponsor who could or has instituted a 14 day return policy would go a long way to address the uncertainty that comes with buying online.

I am hoping to buy a 9th generation Pioneer. I'd like to buy it very soon. I find myself in the unfortunate position of deciding between buying from a forum sponsor (and I would love to support them) and buying from someone with a lenient return policy --
or worst of all, waiting a few months.

I know the feeling. I've been bitten by the upgrade bug for the last 5 years. I've bought 5 big screen TVs over the past 5 years and always bought local for the fear of needing to return the TV. Knock on wood, but I've not had any issues so I really didn't even need the 30 day return policy but it was nice insurance. If I take a TV home I have zero intentions of returning a 60" television but at the same time I don't want to drop $4-5k on a TV and have to deal with a manufacturer.

Luckily I live close enough to one of the forum sponsors so BB did a price match on a Kuro last year but I may upgrade again. Whether I'll have that much luck again I dunno but I may have to go through a forum sponsor this year. Since they are the reason I've gotten the good deals I'd rather go through them but I'm still a little concerned spending this much $ on something and be left having to deal with a manufacturer.

Yes mostly all online retailers, including us handle defective items the same. You will get up to 24 to 48 hours to ensure that their is nothing wrong with your display after signing for the package.

We have to abide by all manufacturer or distributor policies. Some have up to 14 days if the display decides to malfunction. In most cases, the manufacturer's warranty will be provided as the first step of trying to fix the problem. If its beyond replaceable a new display will be provided, by either the manufacturer or retailer.

Now their comes a satisfaction policy, which most online retailers do not have. TigerDirect and a few other retailers will accept returns up to 90 days. Crutchfield, Amazon, Abt Electronics, etc...have 30-day return policies or customer satisfaction policies in place in case that you are not satisfied.

So there is a difference between a return on a defective item vs. non defective item.

Hopefully that helps...

Chris

I understand the differentiation, Chris, but you still did not really touch upon the heart of the subject. People are not concerned about if on online retailer will accept a return or exchange. All respectable online stores do. The sticking factor is shipping costs. If the customer needs to pay replacement shipping both ways, plus insurance, that $2000 50" plasma suddenly costs them $2400.

Thats why I mentioned in another topic that I wish more online vendors would offer free shipping or substantially reduced shipping on your first replacement set. I in no way feel that a vendor should need to cater to that small subset of individuals who return multiple sets for the slightest problems (just look at the LCD forum) but a compromise on the first return seems reasonable to me.

This is a completely amateur question, but as I'm about to drop $2-4k on a new plasma (Kuro), I think it's an important one. Why is it that online retailers are able to sell these plasmas for such a dramatic price difference than my local stores? I've asked the local stores during my bargaining process with them, and they mumble around about overhead and being an "Official Pioneer dealer," but they are ultimately unable to give me a good reason. Is this simply an issue of overhead? Is there any downside to buying from an online dealer (as long as it's a reputable one?) Many of you seem very satisfied with using some of the forum sponsors.

I hope this is a "legal" topic of discussion. I know there are rules about discussing pricing, but I think this is outside of that realm.

It's because they leave their display units in "Dynamic mode" all day long.:D:D

The electric bill is huge!

It's because they leave their display units in "Dynamic mode" all day long.:D:D

The electric bill is huge!

You got it.

I understand the differentiation, Chris, but you still did not really touch upon the heart of the subject. People are not concerned about if on online retailer will accept a return or exchange. All respectable online stores do. The sticking factor is shipping costs. If the customer needs to pay replacement shipping both ways, plus insurance, that $2000 50" plasma suddenly costs them $2400.

Thats why I mentioned in another topic that I wish more online vendors would offer free shipping or substantially reduced shipping on your first replacement set. I in no way feel that a vendor should need to cater to that small subset of individuals who return multiple sets for the slightest problems (just look at the LCD forum) but a compromise on the first return seems reasonable to me.
Dante,
The OP was asking, "Price Difference Between Online and B&M Stores" and not return "shipping costs". That is a totally separate issue. On other hand, shasta mentioned her response about shipping and freight companies. That is where I think you were trying to build on shasta's response.

I implied that their is reason why B&M charge higher prices because of their overhead.

Now return shipping costs are handled on a case by case basis based on the individual retailer. Some will cover the return shipping, others will have to charge for the shipping. Again it goes back to the non defective vs. defective policy of how each retailer handles the issue on return shipping.

Chris

The truth is that most of the on-line dealers are selling their panels directly from shipping cans sitting on fenced in lots. That's how they cut overhead, with no warehouses or storage facilites. Also they deal with freight companies directly for shipping, there is no such thing as "real" white glove delivery with most on-line dealers. They also do not take returns of any kind, if a panel has a problem, your stuck dealing with the company that made the panel, not the seller. The bottom line is your taking a greater risk to save some cash, for some it works out great, for others not so much. The forum sponsors are a good place to start but even they will tell you that problems do happen. You need understand that you are rolling the dice to save some cash and be willing to deal with the problems if you end up rolling snakeyes. So far my own experience with buying on-line couldn't be going much worse, the 1st panel came with a broken screen and I had to refuse delivery. The
2nds glass was fine, but has had major picture problems. Over the last month, I've missed 6 half days of work to meet repair techs and their 6 hour service windows, al while they randomly switch out boards in hopes of getting luckly and actually fixing the problem. It's seems that Panasonics repair plan is to change out every board in the panel at random. So you can take it for what it's worth, for me it wasn't worth it, for someone else that didn't get a bad panel, it probably was. Just understand the risk before you decide.

Well put. So bottom line.......with you rolling snake eyes and missing all that work, what did your bargain Panasonic really cost you?

Hey Romans Back! word up dude

Roman has always been here! Isn't that right Rome? :)

Chris

Well put. So bottom line.......with you rolling snake eyes and missing all that work, what did your bargain Panasonic really cost you?

In lost Vacation time alone, I'm well above $1,000 dollars if I go by a dollar for dollar value of my time. Then there's the aggravation of trying to get the problem solved with phone calls and so forth. Now it looks like I'm actually going to have to have my Attorney get involved, all just to get Panasonic to do the right thing and refund my money for the panel their own techs say can't be fixed. Now I'm not saying that people should or shouldn't buy on line, they should just understand what they are gettting into. I understood this could happen and as I said, I rolled the dice knowing the risks, and I'll deal with the results, but it still sucks. ;)

Roman has always been here! Isn't that right Rome? :)

Chris

True True :) yo Dave ;)

Wow couldn't disagree more.
Imo, online and b&m are pretty much the same thing.
Your statements about online dealers not taking returns is a gross exaggeration.
There is a wide disparity in the online dealer policy just like b&m dealers return policies.

Ive had one forum sponsor ship me 3 different samsung dlps until i was satisfied. 1st had a bad hdmi board, 2nd shipping damage, 3rd the charm. I also recently returned a sony lcos tv back to vanns for a full refund because of screen abnormalities.

I've also had a local b&m refuse to take a return when a sony tv i had blew its bulb within the 30 day return policy, he made me deal with sony. (which worked out ok btw)

So for me online or b&m is exactly the same, you make your order, you wait for delivery. When sh1t happens your choice in vendor will determine what kind of experience you will have, not necessarily whether they are local to you or not.

Two of our forum sponsors have been asked directly here if they would exchange sets with dead pixels and they BOTH have said no.

BTW, Dead Pixels are not considered a defect by the manufacturer

Two of our forum sponsors have been asked directly here if they would exchange sets with dead pixels and they BOTH have said no.

We have been this route many times, I am not trying to go there again :)

We have been this route many times, I am not trying to go there again :)

Yes we have