PIONEER CONTINUES TO SURPASS BLACK LEVEL PERFORMANCE WITH NEW LINE OF 2008 KURO TELEVISIONS

Pioneer's 2008 KURO Displays Boast Industry Leading Black Levels and Richer Color to Create an Unmatched Emotional Entertainment Experience

NEW YORK (May 7, 2008) – Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. today announces a new line of KURO plasma displays featuring black levels five times deeper than the previous award-winning KURO. Widely recognized for its commitment to creating entertainment experiences that transcend the ordinary, Pioneer takes yet another groundbreaking step towards HDTV perfection with this new line of 2008 KURO flat panel televisions.

"The game-changing performance our KURO displays brought to the marke last year revitalized the landscape of high end home theater in a way that was never thought possible. The introduction of this year's KURO televisions is another step toward our ultimate goal of pure, absolute black that will fulfill the true potential and all the promise of high-definition entertainment," said Paul Meyhoefer, vice president of display marketing and product planning, home entertainment business solutions group, Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. "Our goal is to listen and fully understand the minds of creative professionals and their craft. When great entertainment comes together something truly magical happens, the boundaries of technology fall away and you're left with a truly unique experience. This is the hidden key to the power that KURO possesses and ensures the integrity of the artist's vision is never compromised."

Pioneer's Philosophy is Absolute Black
The philosophy behind Pioneer's Project KURO and the driving force is to achieve absolute, pure black. True, deep black creates a picture unlike any other that possesses finer detail, greater contrast, and more importantly, the ability to produce deeper colors not achievable before. This year, Pioneer pushes ever closer to their goal of absolute black by further reducing the idle luminance and improving black levels five times over the previous 2007 KURO models. This has enabled Pioneer to accurately reproduce deeper colors within the high-definition color spectrum and outdistance other display manufacturers.

Pioneer understands that color is a vital tool that creative professionals – from visual artists to film and television producers – use freely to evoke emotion and arouse our senses. With varying techniques from the most subtle to intense manipulation of color, artists can induce a very specific feeling within their audience. That feeling can be lost or diluted if a television cannot produce true, pure deep blacks and in turn reproduce an accurate color spectrum. The end result cannot be imitated and is beyond compare.

Evoking Emotion through Sound
Pioneer has incorporated six unique sound settings associated with each of the KURO video settings – standard, movie, sports, performance, game, dynamic – to ensure a customized listening experience that is specifically in tune with the type of programming on-screen.

The television employs an auto volume stabilization feature that further
controls the television's volume level when switching between different types of programming; including network shows and commercials, broadcast channels or different input types to insure each experience remains true and distinct from one another.

Pioneer has included the most advanced SRS® WOW HD technology in the new KURO models by incorporating SRS Definition, a high frequency enhancement that provides finer control and adjustment to manage low, mid and high audio frequencies. The result adds to the virtual surround sound effect and produces clearer, more precise audio in mid to high frequency levels.

A Truly Intelligent Television
The KURO employs a unique automatic adjustment feature called Optimum Mode that simultaneously monitors video and room light conditions. The KURO then seamlessly adjusts the picture and sound settings by even the slightest variation to provide an experience specially tailored to each type of programming. The result is movies that reproduce a film-like quality, sports that feel like you're on the field and crisp clear narration from newscasts that focus on the reporter, not ambient background noise.

While many consumers will rely on this unique feature, the 2008 KURO models still have the ability to switch between six finely tuned pre-set modes including: standard, movie, sports, performance, game, dynamic for consumers who prefer the ability to manually adjust their KURO television according to their particular taste.

Enhanced Consumer Convenience Features
The introduction of the 2008 KURO 1080p line creates the perfect synergy between film, video and high quality sound, helping blend these into a new world of seeing and hearing like never before. Pioneer has built a reputation for providing best-in-class products that evoke emotion and surpass typical high- quality sight and sound specifications, adding enhanced features such as these to the 2008 KURO line:

• Pioneer KURO televisions are now only 3.7 Inches thick, reduced by nearly 20 percent
• New remote control and redesigned high definition graphic user interface for ease-of-use and seamless integration with other a/v equipment
• Networked Home Media Gallery for playback of digital assets such as HD movie, music and photos from a PC or via USB
• Pioneer KURO televisions are DLNA compatible and Windows PlaysForSure™ compatible

No word on models or prices?

The 5020 and 6020 models are listed at the end of the press release at http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Continues+to+Surpass+Black+Level+Performance+with+Ne w+Line+of+2008+KURO+Televisions. Few details beyond June availability and list price.

Other Pioneer press releases can be found at http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom.

Kuro 5020FD - $4000
Kuro 6020FD - $5500
Elite 111FD - $5000
Elite 151FD - $6500
Monitor Elite 101FD - Unknown Price
Monitor Elite 141FD - Unknown Price

man, US prices are so awesome
I wonder why so much of the rest of the world is expected to pay double :(

This may be a stupid question but can someone explain to me the differences between the regular and elite versions.

Kuro 5020FD - $4000
Kuro 6020FD - $5500
Elite 111FD - $5000
Elite 151FD - $6500
Monitor Elite 101FD - Unknown Price
Monitor Elite 141FD - Unknown Price


I don't think this is correct.....I am showing an (MSRP) price of: $5999.99 for the PRO151FD in my computer....cost is very low too so I dont imagine it being a higher price. There is not much of a cost difference between the 50" and the 60" panels (elite anyways). We already have a few commits, so I dont imagine the pricing being wrong...

This may be a stupid question but can someone explain to me the differences between the regular and elite versions.

I'm not sure 100% about these 2008 models but it's likely the same as the 2007.

Elites have more color options, 2 year warranty instead of 1 year. They have a ethernet port. Elites have speakers on each side when others just have a bottom speaker bar. Probably a few other things I left out.

I don't think this is correct.....I am showing an (MSRP) price of: $5999.99 for the PRO151FD in my computer....cost is very low too so I dont imagine it being a higher price. There is not much of a cost difference between the 50" and the 60" panels (elite anyways). We already have a few commits, so I dont imagine the pricing being wrong...

... And I highly doubt Pioneers press release would be wrong...

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Displays+with+New+S ignature+Series+of+Monitors

But it only has the prices for the elite models. Where did the non-elite pricing come from?

But it only has the prices for the elite models. Where did the non-elite pricing come from?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Continues+to+Surpass+Black+Level+Performance+with+Ne w+Line+of+2008+KURO+Televisions

The table at the bottom of the page has the prices for the 5020 and the 6020.

I only recently decided to invest in plasma as I am moving to a new home in August. The timing of this release seems perfect. So quick question:


What was the MSRP last year for the 50 and 60 non elite models and what did the street price look like around launch? Any help is welcomed....

Chris

Funny. In another thread, wasn't the price on the 151FD was "confirmed" at $5999? Wonder what happened?

Funny. In another thread, wasn't the price on the 151FD was "confirmed" at $5999? Wonder what happened?That was Tweeter's price....which was wrong.

Russwong and I confirmed prices last month ;)

Can't wait to get my hands on the 5020.

Why did you start yet another thread? There are quite a few already going.

Why did you start yet another thread? There are quite a few already going.

To make it difficult for people like me and D-Nice to share information.... I can't keep up!!! Sorry... I'm an old 30+ year older with a kid, thank god we got D-Nice, cuz some how he can keep up!

Russ

If forum rules permit, can any of you that are Elite dealers offer any information as to when they might actually be available for purchase by the customer? Specifically the 60" 151FD?

Does June really mean first or second week of July or do you think they might actually hit stockrooms in late June? What about quantities? I believe others have posted that the Elites will be produced in VERY limited quantities right at first. Anyone hear anything different?

Is Tweeter still doing the PRO-151FD pre-order for $5400 ?????????

Also, what would the expected street prices be for the Elite and non-Elites?

Are they expected to be much less than Pioneer's MSRP's???

Is Tweeter still doing the PRO-151FD pre-order for $5400 ?????????

It appears they've taken that ad down. Purely speculation on my part, but it's possible there may have been a last minute change by Pioneer on the MSRP that caught them off guard.

To make it difficult for people like me and D-Nice to share information.... I can't keep up!!! Sorry... I'm an old 30+ year older with a kid, thank god we got D-Nice, cuz some how he can keep up!

Russ

Exactlly,
We already have 3.

Since this thread has the official info on the 9G's, why doesn't someone make this the 'Official' 9G thread?

I look forward to some quotes pm to me for a 60 incher by a sponsor.

I look forward to some quotes pm to me for a 60 incher by a sponsor.


Me too;)

To make it difficult for people like me and D-Nice to share information.... I can't keep up!!! Sorry... I'm an old 30+ year older with a kid, thank god we got D-Nice, cuz some how he can keep up!

Russ

Do you or D-Nice have any info on the MSRP of the European equivelant of the 5020? I will be in Sweden, so that would be ideal......but the UK pricing would do as well as I could guesstimate from there. Thanks in advance.

On CEPro it states there will be 2 elite models one regular and one signature what are the differences of those? I was never aware of 2 elite models being released for the 9g.

Do you or D-Nice have any info on the MSRP of the European equivelant of the 5020? I will be in Sweden, so that would be ideal......but the UK pricing would do as well as I could guesstimate from there. Thanks in advance.I personally only deal with USA models. Sorry.

I personally only deal with USA models. Sorry.

Thanks anyway. But I can't imagine that Pioneer wouldn't drop MSRP in a comprable manner in Sweden as well. I will look forward to your settings on the 5020, so I can try them on the Swedish version of the 5020. I love trying to get the best most accurate performance out of my panel, so it is always fun playing around with the settings on a new panel.

Nothing in the press release about the models with the thin bezel? There was a lot about the elite monitors with the hand-built components, but no 'thin.'

That does it for me. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a 6020.

5x deeper blacks? Geezus.... and I thought my 5080 had deep blacks.

Nevermind. Seriously.... the 9Gs sound like awesome TVs and my hat is off to people that end up with these. For us that have 8Gs, do NOT panic! Keep enjoying your awesome TVs.

:D

The line is going to keep growing. Lots anticipation and excitement. This will be one of the best displays that will be released this year!

Chris

That is the monitor only model or what they are calling the Signature Series..

Nothing in the press release about the models with the thin bezel? There was a lot about the elite monitors with the hand-built components, but no 'thin.'

That does it for me. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a 6020.

No dimensions for the Signature Series?

No dimensions for the Signature Series?

Should all be solidified after next week.

Russ

I only recently decided to invest in plasma as I am moving to a new home in August. The timing of this release seems perfect. So quick question:


What was the MSRP last year for the 50 and 60 non elite models and what did the street price look like around launch? Any help is welcomed....

Chris

6010 was $6500 and I believe the 5010 was $5000. Forum sponsors had the 6010 around $4700-$4800 initially.

Should all be solidified after next week.

Russ

Good to hear.

It sounds to me like these "Signature Series" monitors are going to be priced significantly higher than the Elites, from the way they're marketing them.

"Hand-Selected for Optimum Performance & Scalability Targeted to Growing Custom-Installation Market"

6010 was $6500 and I believe the 5010 was $5000. Forum sponsors had the 6010 around $4700-$4800 initially.

Yes sir, 25%-30% off, as soon as they were out.

6010 was $6500 and I believe the 5010 was $5000. Forum sponsors had the 6010 around $4700-$4800 initially.

That's useful info - but be careful not to assume the same % discount is a given. The real issue is how much the dealer cost sunk. That might be the same as MSRP - but might not.

That's useful info - but be careful not to assume the same % discount is a given. The real issue is how much the dealer cost sunk. That might be the same as MSRP - but might not.

Good point Vashti. We'll know more in the next few weeks as the forum sponsors get their info from Pioneer.

Actually, initial information I had was that they will be the same price. Since there is no tuner, speakers, etc, that might be able to offset that other value adds that are put in. But yes, as you mentioned, it does seem like it's being marketed differently. I think feedback will be gathered from the dealers next week in terms of volume that they want. That will help determine what Pio will do with final pricing.

Good to hear.

It sounds to me like these "Signature Series" monitors are going to be priced significantly higher than the Elites, from the way they're marketing them.

This may be a stupid question but can someone explain to me the differences between the regular and elite versions.

I can't answer that question for the 9G plasmas but for the 8G's I can come close.

The Elite has everything the non-elite has and:
-3 Yr warranty
-Home MEDIA PC built in that can play certain movie formats and music
-Better glass filter (Not sure about this)
-Way more control over the picture settings (ie: you can adjust practically anything in regards to the picture)
-Mosquito Noise effect
-Definable Colour Space
-Colour Management
-MPEG Noise reduction
-3-d YC selectable
-I\P mode selection
-IR repeater
-Illuminated Remote

and finally possibly the most important feature

-The Personal Satisfaction of owing and Pioneer Elite, ( I loved it when a sales men told me this)

oh and BTW you can ask 5 different sales people and get 5 different responses. It depends on which one they are trying to sell at the moment.

BTW not sure if this is true but one sales men told me that the Elites were filled with Xenon Gas and it is impossible to get burn and or image retention, and the non-elites were filled with Argon gas and are prone to image retention.

Do you or D-Nice have any info on the MSRP of the European equivelant of the 5020? I will be in Sweden, so that would be ideal......but the UK pricing would do as well as I could guesstimate from there. Thanks in advance.

in Benelux: €3999, in Germany: €3399

No dimensions for the Signature Series?

Gizmodo is reporting 2.5" thick for the Elite Signature Series.
http://gizmodo.com/387881/pioneers-2008-kuro-line-thinner-blacker-plasmas-and-an-lcos-projector-but-no-lcds

My guess is that the "signature series" will actually be slightly less than the regular elites, but who knows. What I really want to know are the dimensions--i.e. how much thinner these "thin" displays really are (both in depth and width).

That's useful info - but be careful not to assume the same % discount is a given. The real issue is how much the dealer cost sunk. That might be the same as MSRP - but might not.

I'm HOPING but not assuming :). Those discounts were quite generous last year and we can only hope there will be the same level of play with profit margins this year.

Gizmodo is reporting 2.5" thick for the Elite Signature Series.
http://gizmodo.com/387881/pioneers-2008-kuro-line-thinner-blacker-plasmas-and-an-lcos-projector-but-no-lcds
2.36 to be exact

2.36 to be exact

wonderful! Do you know if the width is also thinner?

It probably is, considering it is a "thin-bezel" set. About time!!!! On a side note... When are you (D-Nice) going to make the official thread.

It probably is, considering it is a "thin-bezel" set. About time!!!! On a side note... When are you (D-Nice) going to make the official thread.After work :)

After work :)

Last poster there is a rotten egg:p.

Great pic of the new blackerness:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/07/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on/

After work :)You must be really bored at work to be able to post here this much.... Just as I am.
Edit: Just saw those pictures... WOW. Black levels galore... They also have a link to the kuro projector. Pioneer is making a comeback.

http://www.engadget.com/media/2008/05/kuro-comparison.jpg

If you have an 8g and want to avoid upgradeitis stop reading this forum now!
If the 9g's are as good as everyone hopes, all the jubilation will make you feel like you own an outdated relic.


5x deeper blacks? Geezus.... and I thought my 5080 had deep blacks.

Nevermind. Seriously.... the 9Gs sound like awesome TVs and my hat is off to people that end up with these. For us that have 8Gs, do NOT panic! Keep enjoying your awesome TVs.

:D

The Canadian MSRP for the Pro 150 was, and still is $8999, so I am guessing we will see $7999 for the Pro 151. But I am not worried because one of the local B&M's was willing, with a little arm twisting, to go to $8979 :eek:. With these kind of discounts I am sure that you guys south of the border must be very jealous ;).

Pioneer 9G
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/05/Pioneer_2008_Kuro.jpg
Pioneer Signature Series Thickness
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/05/Thin_2G_Kuro_plasma_.jpg

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/05/Pioneer_2G_Kuro_Plasma_Water.jpg
Contrast Comparisons
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2473230435_8a352dd968_o.jpg
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2474047486_1b59557973_o.jpg
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2474047568_7f567b795f_o.jpg
Click this link for more Pioneer new product images: http://www.engadget.com/photos/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on/793923/

http://www.engadget.com/media/2008/05/kuro-comparison.jpg

Geez'm dude. I get lot deeper blacks than that on my Sammy plasma and it's a year and a half old now! :eek:

http://www.engadget.com/media/2008/05/kuro-comparison.jpg

I'm surprised how much more depth and 3D effect the 9th gen has over the 8th gen.

If the LCD's running in standard setting and add to that being at such an off axis when taking these pics, that's about right. Calibrated and dead center, the LCD's would obviously look much better.

I'm surprised how much more depth and 3D effect the 9th gen has over the 8th gen.

If the LCD's running in standard setting and add to that being at such an off axis when taking these pics, that's about right. Calibrated and dead center, the LCD's would obviously look much better.Still not as good as the 9g kuros :cool: The brighter picture on the sammy is due to (I assume) exposure time and/or the ISO

Either the photographer/source is mistaken, or that is the most blatantly staged and tailored comparison you're ever likely see. Displaying a Samsung 81 with the local dimming very obviously turned off is pretty low.

Either the photographer/source is mistaken, or that is the most blatantly staged and tailored comparison you're ever likely see. Displaying a Samsung 81 with the local dimming very obviously turned off is pretty low.

Actually the 81 series looks pretty bad when viewed at an off angle like that. That's just the way LCD is.

2.36 to be exact

Nice! Signature Series Elites is in reference to ones with speaker,tuner,stand, ect... correct? Our is the 2.36" depth the moniter only panels?

Please tell me its the former and not the latter...

The official 9G Pioneer pre-release thread is now open. Please move over to that thread for all 9G related info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027097

Mods, please shut this thread down.

I'm not sure 100% about these 2008 models but it's likely the same as the 2007.

Elites have more color options, 2 year warranty instead of 1 year. They have a ethernet port. Elites have speakers on each side when others just have a bottom speaker bar. Probably a few other things I left out.Elites have PURE mode, no other PDP can touch PURE "the most natural looking picture possible" mode on the Elites, and that include the non Elites.

5x deeper blacks? Geezus.... and I thought my 5080 had deep blacks.

Nevermind. Seriously.... the 9Gs sound like awesome TVs and my hat is off to people that end up with these. For us that have 8Gs, do NOT panic! Keep enjoying your awesome TVs.

:DI am enjoying my PRO-110FD and will for many many many years to come, in 2-3 years from now I will get one of the ABSOLUTE BLACK KURO Line "60" Elite preferably", till then I am one happy camper, and congrats to the new owners of the upcoming Kuro line of PDP's.

Either the photographer/source is mistaken, or that is the most blatantly staged and tailored comparison you're ever likely see. Displaying a Samsung 81 with the local dimming very obviously turned off is pretty low.

Welcome to the plasma forum where BS is taken to an art form.

The official 9G Pioneer pre-release thread is now open. Please move over to that thread for all 9G related info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027097

Mods, please shut this thread down.

What's wrong with this thread, why shut it down?

It's redundant. Please move over to that thread for all 9G related info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027097

Redundant would be the first link in your thread as it was posted here 8 hours before yours. Again, why should this thread be closed?

Mods

Please close the following thread as it is redundant information already presented in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027097

Merging the threads is also a possible solution.

Redundant would be the first link in your thread as it was posted here 8 hours before yours. Again, why should this thread be closed?

agreed this thread was here first. Good point! lol:p

Then maybe you guys will provide the D-NICE settings here as well? :rolleyes:
Common, mods please close this thread

D-NICE is more than welcome to provide his settings here.

Roman, any reason to close this thread is appreciated.

Thanks!

I agree that we only need one thread. And I know D-nice's thread will be the more informative one. However, the way it was said just sounded really disrespectful to the OP. Especially considering this thread was here long before the other.

Just kind of reminds me of a kid being on a swing on a playground and a bully comes up and says its his swing and pushes the kid off.

No disrespect to D-Nice, I love his posts. Thats just the way it sounded.

Appreciate the comments. I might not be the PRO D-Nice is but I've been around a long time. I felt the same way when I post some important info (for the first time) this morning only to be told shut my thread down, I gotta call B.S. I can't wait to get my hands on a 5020 and was pumped to see the announcement this morning and was even more pumped when I saw this wasn't yet posted on AVS and I had an oppurtunity to share.

I don't give a S&*T about the "official" thread. Big woop. I just don't see the need for D-NICE to tell the mods to shut down my thread....WTF??

No disrespect LI-HDTV-Viewer, but there were over 6 9G Kuro threads that came before yours. 3 just today. Also, you were not the first person to post the official press release. That honor goes to pepin here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13812490&postcount=1231

A few members suggested that an official thread be created for the 9G Kuros to keep things like this from happening. I appologize if you feel cheated because of this, but it's best for the entire plasma forum that we have one thread to discuss the pre-release 9G info instead of 5...6...7...8 threads about the same thing.


Please join us in the Official 9G Pioneer Pre-Release Discussion Thread

BTW, I posted the same shut down request in all of the other 9G Kuro threads.

No thanks, I'll wait for ECC plasma.

D-NICE,

Thanks for the explanation, it is much more tactful than your initial post to shut down this thread. I agree one thread makes more sense than six.

Mods please shut down this thread.

:)

I look forward to some quotes pm to me for a 60 incher by a sponsor.

I didn't know that's how this is done. :) I'm looking for the 50 incher (5020) if anyone would like to PM me a few quotes!

Actually the 81 series looks pretty bad when viewed at an off angle like that. That's just the way LCD is.

NOT TRUE when the dimming zone is working properly.

However, those shots are accurate to a degree as the local dimming doesn't
work to well with such a scattered pattern of stars (you'll notice the unevenness
of the 'blacks'). That's why it looks like crap even compared to the Sony. In a sense,
off-angle is crap on the LED for the same reasons as LCD in this case, as there's
nowhere to dim, thus the light filtering doesn't work as good off angle.

By the way, it's not BS that LCD blacks don't look as good via camera shots
for stuff that's off-angle. Dunno why it happens, but it was a peeve of mine
last year when I tried taking off-angle pictures of my sets last year. Totally
different scenario for pics from the front, though.

Anyhow, enough of this. It's a camera shot and it's quite different in person.
The only good thing to take from the shots is the relative PQ of the TVs,
which is still questionable.

For me, knowing exactly what an 8G elite looks like (Pro-150FD), I am pretty
impressed with some of the shots of the 9G.

If you have an 8g and want to avoid upgradeitis stop reading this forum now!
If the 9g's are as good as everyone hopes, all the jubilation will make you feel like you own an outdated relic.

+1!!!! I have an 8G 6010 and love it, but THIS is exciting stuff!!! Any word on whether a 70" is in the works???? :D

NOT TRUE when the dimming zone is working properly.I'd have to disagree, with any sort of APL on the screen the black level rises dramatically at wide viewing angles (looks like severe floating blacks). It is the combination of diffuser cross-talk and the LC panels inherent viewing angle issues. At centre viewing it is much better though.

Welcome to the plasma forum where BS is taken to an art form.

Awe, don't go away sad, just go away.

Pioneer 9G
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2474047486_1b59557973_o.jpg
Click this link for more Pioneer new product images: http://www.engadget.com/photos/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on/793923/

you can clearly see that these tvs were not calibrated and not set up correctly. this comparison looks like a scam. if they were calibrated correctly, the difference in detail and brightness would be no where as big. just compare the panasonic to the samsung. NO WAY they were calibrated.

you can clearly see that these tvs were not calibrated and not set up correctly. this comparison looks like a scam. if they were calibrated correctly, the difference in detail and brightness would be no where as big. just compare the panasonic to the samsung. NO WAY they were calibrated.

I bet the backlights were turned all the way up on the LCDs. Even then these LCDs aren't even close to the black levels on the Kuro's. I hadn't realized how poor the black levels were on these until I went to the Sony Store at lunch today. They had a 52XBR4 which is supposed to have better black levels than the 71 series Samsung and I was quite surprised how poor they actually look. It was in an open room but I could turn off the lights. There was still ambient lighting but enough to get an idea of what the black levels were like. I had a remote in hand and put the Sony on max power save and turned the back light down. If you don't take those steps then blacks are absolutely horrid! And if you do take those steps then your brightness decreases significantly.

If you primarily watch in a darkened room then LCD just isn't the way to go IMO.

I bet the backlights were turned all the way up on the LCDs.

I think you hit the nail on the head there, but I don't think it's pioneer who
did the job. As I recall, many LCD's come with their default backlight settings
to be very high (in order to get your attention on store displays). All of my
Sharp LCD's, for example, had a default backlight set to something like +8 (in
a range of -12 to +12 I believe), which I actually had to turn down to -8 when
I calibrated it. It's like how all my previous CRT's (including my Sony XBR) had
ridiculously high contrast settings out of the box (many TVs set at max). My
guess is that these TVs are set at their default settings. Well, perhaps the
pioneer might have been a little calibrated. :)

The way I see it, tbh, the manufacturers deserve every bit of the misleading
results we see on displays like these.

The way I see it, tbh, the manufacturers deserve every bit of the misleading
results we see on displays like these. well, yes, but not if in forums like these people abuse such tests to advertise pioneer.

IF they left all the TVs in their shop mode and only calibrated the Pioneer then that is an unfair and useless comparison and should be looked upon as such on a quality forum such as this one.

well, yes, but not if in forums like these people abuse such tests to advertise pioneer.

IF they left all the TVs in their shop mode and only calibrated the Pioneer then that is an unfair and useless comparison and should be looked upon as such on a quality forum such as this one.

True, but we're dealing with speculation and, besides, the pioneer's default
settings are already amazing (I own an 8G myself) so it would still be rather
useless. Default settings are pointless for comparison.

I bet all of those TVs are at factory default. Pioneer would have the best advantage in this type of environment and wouldn't be cheating per se. Some of those pics of the Kuros seem to have a little black crush and if so that's what dynamic mode can do.

I believe it was stated by Pioneer that all sets were at factory default settings.

I believe it was stated by Pioneer that all sets were at factory default settings.All sets, including the 9G Kuros, were set to "Standard" mode with no additional tweaking.

I'm new to plasmas and new to pioneer, so i have a very very noob question. What models are the "higher-end" models Kuro PDP (i think) or the Elite Kuro (PRO). Now you may question my intelligence, I know its say "Elite" but I want definite clarification.

Elite...but now there will be a higher level....Signature Elite

with the signature elite do you sacrifice speakers or something of that nature?

with the signature elite do you sacrifice speakers or something of that nature?
Yes. Please read the Elite's press release for info on the Signature series.