Argh, guess I'm going to be waiting awhile for my 151FD then, I'm first on the national pre-order list for Ultimate Electronics but it sounds like Magnolia gets priority so it's unlikely I'll see it in June...

Just hang in there man. I was able to get in early on my local Tweeter list (Showcase) and not even on a national level so I'm in the same boat. I've been waiting for a long time and an extra 1.5 to 2 months are not going to kill me.

I'll be surprised if I get mine any earlier than mid to later July. I'm thinking more like mid to end of July early Aug.


Besides, I've got enough in my life keeping me busy and I really don't have lots of time to watch TV. But when I do it's going to be nice!

Will the new G9s need the break in DVD? If so, I'm going to buy one rather than download it because my computer cannot burn DVDs.

I know that some use full frame TV, though it's hard to find a channel that does not have some kind of frozen/attached call letter/artwork attached to their video signal. There's also been some debate if the break in DVD is hard on the display when compared to regular video.

Well, I did it. Placed my pre-order for a 5020 with Value Electronics. (Thanks Robert!)

Although much wailing and gnashing of teeth went into my decision (over the past year!), I’m satisfied that I made the right call. After viewing the 8Gs in person, it had been my plan for a while to grab a 5080 or a 5010 on close-out----but with the 9G pricing, it ended up being an easy call to go with the 5020 (although I briefly considered the Panasonic 800 series). I am aware of what I’m missing out on by not getting an Elite, but (even at the great price from Value Electronics) the 111 was above my price point.

While I, like others, am somewhat frustrated with the stripped down control options on the 5020 compared to the 5010, I’m not overly worried. The addition of the Home Media Gallery alone, for me, more than makes up for always on noise reduction and other minor inconveniences. Sure, I’d like the Elite---but, despite how some may see it, it didn’t make sense for me to spend the extra $$$.

+1. Same issues I had. Home Media Gallery was my must have for wanting the 8G Elite, and w/o the online discounts available on the 9G Elite, ordered the 5020FD and BDP-51FD from Robert last week. (Don't know what he was selling the 111FD for, because I was outside his market region to get a quote.)

Will the new G9s need the break in DVD? If so, I'm going to buy one rather than download it because my computer cannot burn DVDs.

I know that some use full frame TV, though it's hard to find a channel that does not have some kind of frozen/attached call letter/artwork attached to their video signal. There's also been some debate if the break in DVD is hard on the display when compared to regular video.

I am curious about this as well. The only plasma I have ever owned was a floor model that was already broken in. I watch alot of HDTV, so can I use that instead as long as it fills the screen and has nothing permanent (like a callsign) on the screen?

And how careful do you have to be in the first couple hundred hours? Are things like the channel guide a problem if they aren't on screen for more than a minute?

Frankly this whole "Buy a Pioneer Blu-ray and a Pioneer AVR if you really want to get the best out of your Kuro!" sounds like so much blatant salesmanship/upselling I would frankly make sure any so-called expert who is trying to get you to bite on this doesn't have a vested interest in your wallet!:rolleyes:

Nor would I buy anything from someone spreading this "information" without laying my eyes on the result myself.

Frankly this whole "Buy a Pioneer Blu-ray and a Pioneer AVR if you really want to get the best out of your Kuro!" sounds like so much blatant salesmanship/upselling I would frankly make sure any so-called expert who is trying to get you to bite on this doesn't have a vested interest in your wallet!:rolleyes:

Nor would I buy anything from someone spreading this "information" without laying my eyes on the result myself.

Buying the Pioneer AVR and Pioneer Blu Ray if you want to get the best out of your Kuro is a true statement. I spoke to one of the forum gods and he told me about the features that are given when these units are combined together. I do not work on commision so you can't say that I have a vested interest in my wallet.

Hey Alex,
Which "god" would that be?
If he sells Pioneer, hmm.....I wonder.

P.S. You have been GREAT to deal with at Invision, can't wait to get my set!

Cheers!

Oh, yeah, will I need Pioneer HDMI cables with that? lol!

"Buy a Pioneer Blu-ray and a Pioneer AVR if you really want to get the best out of your Kuro!" sounds like so much blatant salesmanship/upselling

I agree! Some manufactures excel at different aspects of HT and some come up short. "Brand matching" seems so Joe-Six-Pack to me. I've been in to HT since the mid 90's and I've never had my display/video source/audio from the same manufacture. Pioneers upcoming BD players seem promising, so it's POSSIBLE I might actually have two out of three going here, but the AVR is something I can do better...Then again I'm in to seperates anyway.

M

Hey Alex,
Which "god" would that be?
If he sells Pioneer, hmm.....I wonder.

P.S. You have been GREAT to deal with at Invision, can't wait to get my set!

Cheers!

Robert, he is the man to talk to.

You mean the guy selling Pioneer equipment? :D

No offense, but seeing is believing. Also, I am a fan of resellerratings.com which ultimately was one of the reasons I went with Invision.

Again,
Cheers!

I just put down my deposit on a 5020 at Invision. I had been trying to decided between the 50 and 60. I saw the current gen Kuros at Best Buy Monday. I was shocked at how frickin huge the 60" was. I'll be putting it in a smallish room and that 60" was way too big.

I have a 50" RPTV right now. I guess the upgrade will be in image quality alone and not in size. That's alright, I can't wait!!!

Just a suggestion - if you have a friend or know someone who knows someone who works at Best Buy, you can get an Elite 5% above the cost getting yourself a sweet deal (not sure what BB's cost is, though).

I am certain (and I 'll bet that you are too) that this "sweet deal" is strictly for employees and MAYBE immediate family...so you are not being any "friend" asking another to get your rearski a big discount. You are setting your "friend" up to get f-i-r-e-d. :rolleyes:

Anybody have the 5020/6020 power requirements numbers? thank YOU.

You mean the guy selling Pioneer equipment? :D

No offense, but seeing is believing. Also, I am a fan of resellerratings.com which ultimately was one of the reasons I went with Invision.

Again,
Cheers!Interesting. Based on your posts, I can conclude you have no idea as to who Robert is or what he contributes to AVS.

Why don't you ask about Robert and Value Electronics in the LCD, BD, HD DVD, and A/V Receiver forums. Let's see how many negative responses you get to your query.

BTW, Robert sells FAR more than just Pioneer ;)

Interesting. Based on your posts, I can conclude you have no idea as to who Robert is or what he contributes to AVS.

Why don't you ask about Robert and Value Electronics in the LCD, BD, HD DVD, and A/V Receiver forums. Let's see how many negative responses you get to your query.

BTW, Robert sells FAR more than just Pioneer ;)Exactly. Why is his name DTV Tivo salesman (or something along that line). If he was biased or if he only sold pioneers, wouldn't it be Pioneer salesman. Wild, if you went with invision, but an invision employee suggests a competitor (kind of), wouldn't it mean that the competitor is really good and knows what he is talking about. Robert saw, and Robert believed. As you said, seeing is believing.

Gotcha, didn't know which "Robert" he was referring to.

I stand corrected/admonished:o

Lord knows I don't want to incur the wrath of ..... well, anyway, sorry if I offended!

I couldn't care less about the last five features. I do care about picture quality, and those who have seen these TVs have attested to that. And I believe D-Nice when he says that the locked DRE and Gamma can be dealt with.

You do realize that the 5020 and 6020 are priced very closely to their 8g counterparts already (the 6020 can be had for less than the 6010). I don't like features going away, but the MSRP lowering for a new model with supposedly better picture quality makes up for that as far as I'm concerned.

I just got my email letting me know that my 6020 will soon be on its way!!! I ordered from **************** and have been very happy with their service so far.
I agree. I only use one connection on the TV, the HDMI port. I have all my components connected to my Pioneer receiver.

I am certain (and I 'll bet that you are too) that this "sweet deal" is strictly for employees and MAYBE immediate family...so you are not being any "friend" asking another to get your rearski a big discount. You are setting your "friend" up to get f-i-r-e-d. :rolleyes:

Fired is right they did away with family using the Best Buy discount because it was being abused like no other. Plus, they monitor what they buy and how many of the same items they buy. Also, paying cash for an employee purchase is a dead give away.

Gotcha, didn't know which "Robert" he was referring to.

I stand corrected/admonished:o

Lord knows I don't want to incur the wrath of ..... well, anyway, sorry if I offended!

Trust in Robert, he will not steer you wrong.

Frankly this whole "Buy a Pioneer Blu-ray and a Pioneer AVR if you really want to get the best out of your Kuro!" sounds like so much blatant salesmanship/upselling I would frankly make sure any so-called expert who is trying to get you to bite on this doesn't have a vested interest in your wallet!:rolleyes:

Nor would I buy anything from someone spreading this "information" without laying my eyes on the result myself.

Here's a montage of info about matching the new Pioneer components I've gathered from AVS. I'm just the messenger, so you can take it for what it's worth...

Personally, I think it will help...particularly the settings on the new Pioneer Blu-ray players.

The new Pioneer players will have a "Pioneer PDP" mode (and other modes such as CRT, etc.)

"The new BD players, when set to Pioneer PDP output mode, sends data that takes full advantage of PDPs dither and virtual grayscale driving technique."

Now about the deep color feature with the new Pioneer Blu-ray players...
There is some debate if the higher bit color feature is more true to the signal or not, however from what I'm reading it seems to help when there's gradation of colors and show up as smooth looking as oppose to seeing lines (bands of color).

U need an avr with HDMI 1.3 plus Deep Color support. Not all 1.3 avrs support deep color (it doesn't have to). plus, as of now there are not 444 12bit src (apart from a few boutique video processors) so not really tested. Now with the pio planning 12 bit 444 output, we will see another wave of new receiver models that support this.

The new Pioneer receivers will have...
HDMI Deep Color / 30-bit / 36-bit 4:4:4 color depth / X.V. Color Support"

Fired is right they did away with family using the Best Buy discount because it was being abused like no other. Plus, they monitor what they buy and how many of the same items they buy. Also, paying cash for an employee purchase is a dead give away.


Yes, everyone buy from Alex!!!

I am certain (and I 'll bet that you are too) that this "sweet deal" is strictly for employees and MAYBE immediate family...so you are not being any "friend" asking another to get your rearski a big discount. You are setting your "friend" up to get f-i-r-e-d. :rolleyes:

Dude, it is best buy, not exactly a career!!! If you get fired from BB you can always go work at Circuit City or Walmart

Will the new G9s need the break in DVD? If so, I'm going to buy one rather than download it because my computer cannot burn DVDs.

I know that some use full frame TV, though it's hard to find a channel that does not have some kind of frozen/attached call letter/artwork attached to their video signal. There's also been some debate if the break in DVD is hard on the display when compared to regular video.

The 8th gens dont NEED them it is just recommended. I am sure it will not hurt on the 9'gs as well :)

The 8th gens dont NEED them it is just recommended. I am sure it will not hurt on the 9'gs as well :)Correct. The 8G recommended break-in process is going to be carried over for the 9Gs.

Correct. The 8G recommended break-in process is going to be carried over for the 9Gs.

For those of us that haven't been around since 8G, what is the recommended break-in process that's being carried over?

For those of us that haven't been around since 8G, what is the recommended break-in process that's being carried over?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858851
first page ;)

Vicious Cycle - Wastes Everybody's Time

1) Since people keep posting for 1) inappropriate PM's and (2) inappropriate price requests
2) Then others must also post their objections and thus waste space and time by trying to police it (otherwise it would be even worse!)
3) Where are the Mods?When anyone sees a post that's disruptive to the thread that the post is in, just click on the "Report Post" link to the left of each post. That will get the Mods attention. You won't get feedback, but over time the thread will improve. :D

Doing that avoids contributing to the problem. (See #2 above.)

For those of us that haven't been around since 8G, what is the recommended break-in process that's being carried over?
150 straight hours of the break-in DVD with specific settings. This ensures a comprehensive and even "aging" of each phosphor cell. It's also a "stress test" to ensure your panel is not defective (if your panel cannot take 150 hours of the break-in DVD, it's not going to last long).

All of my settings will be based off of the assumtion that you did the 150 break-in proceedure. It will be up to the panel owner to decide whether to use them or not.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858851
first page ;)Roman, what happened to the Pioneer products on your website?????

hey d nice can we expect reference settings from you for the 9gs this year non elite....

hey d nice can we expect reference settings from you for the 9gs this year non elite....Yes

I have a stand that is designed for a 50" up to 117 lbs. The 60" comes in at 112 with out the stand and speakers. 131 with stand and speakers. However, I don't need the speakers attached. I can't find any info on the weight of just the stand and display. Hoping it comes in at 117 lbs. A 5 lb. stand. Reasonable? If not I may have to buy another stand.

Anyone have any idea what the stand alone might weigh? Am I being needlessly (recklessly) cheap and lazy in putting a 60" on a stand designed for a 50"?

Thanks.

Yes


ok, who is this weird fellow, who is helping everyone so much? is he really bruce wayne ;-)

PS: Thanks, D-Nice. also, I guess I will be looking for the owner's thread now.

Roman, what happened to the Pioneer products on your website?????

They were all old models ;)

can I ask one more silly question---Roman, Alex, and Robert(?) all seem like pretty good guys. if I had 3 TVs to purchase, I would buy one from each. (They also seem to be within about $100 of one another in their price quotes, and they do seem to be pretty good.) Is there a ranking as to which of them is most supportive here? Sponsors maintaining the forum most? Helps out our "secret angel" D-Nice most? I could just throw dice, or go with the cheapest, of course, but as I noted, I want to support those who support me.

Oh, and I am not ready to order yet, simply because I have to go to my local BM store and try to see if I can hear a buzz. My LCD's are totally quiet, which I do appreciate. Preferably, I do not want to know whether the display is on from 12' away with my eyes closed---and, in the dark, I do not want to see where the TV frame is with my eyes open. can the new Kuro manage this disappearing act? :-). )

/iaw

Interesting. Based on your posts, I can conclude you have no idea as to who Robert is or what he contributes to AVS.

Why don't you ask about Robert and Value Electronics in the LCD, BD, HD DVD, and A/V Receiver forums. Let's see how many negative responses you get to your query.

BTW, Robert sells FAR more than just Pioneer ;)

I just ordered a 151 from Robert and pre-ordered the blu-ray player(BDP 51FD) strictly on his assessment of the two working so well together. Robert has no need to play games with his reputation with a $600. piece of equipment. He's telling it like he saw it.-bird

wblynch, it won't tip over, it's very sturdy. The concern is the glass. It's rated for a 230 lb 36" but i suspect that because of weight distribution. Here's a link - http://www.racksandstands.com/asp/show_detail.asp?sku=BU2538&refid=FR1-BU2538

I just ordered a 151 from Robert and pre-ordered the blu-ray player(BDP 51FD) strictly on his assessment of the two working so well together. Robert has no need to play games with his reputation with a $600. piece of equipment. He's telling it like he saw it.-bird


bird, do u live within 250 miles of him (RObert)?

Frankly this whole "Buy a Pioneer Blu-ray and a Pioneer AVR if you really want to get the best out of your Kuro!" sounds like so much blatant salesmanship/upselling I would frankly make sure any so-called expert who is trying to get you to bite on this doesn't have a vested interest in your wallet!:rolleyes:

Nor would I buy anything from someone spreading this "information" without laying my eyes on the result myself.

So to get this new improved picture, ALL 3 of your components( plasma, receiver, and BD player ) have to be this year's model? For example, I won't see this if I have an 8G pioneer, but have the other two?

So to get this new improved picture, ALL 3 of your components( plasma, receiver, and BD player ) have to be this year's model? For example, I won't see this if I have an 8G pioneer, but have the other two?

Correct.

So to get this new improved picture, ALL 3 of your components( plasma, receiver, and BD player ) have to be this year's model? For example, I won't see this if I have an 8G pioneer, but have the other two?

Correct.You may get an EVEN better picture. With the 9g alone, you WILL get a better picture. The three combined just makes for an even better picture.

Value Electronics also upgraded my delivery to "white glove"!! I can't say enough about the service they provide. A+

-kkgsxr
Thank you, we upgraded all PDP-6020FD orders to inside white glove delivery as I did not want anyone to try to lug these big bad boys in by themselves.

Not sure if we'll keep doing it but for now lets just enjoy the TV and save our backs.

-Robert

So to get this new improved picture, ALL 3 of your components( plasma, receiver, and BD player ) have to be this year's model? For example, I won't see this if I have an 8G pioneer, but have the other two?

Can't you just use 8G/9G PDP + BD Player? skip on the receiver?

YesHow many "open box" PDPs will you leave in your wake?

Preferably, I do not want to know whether the display is on from 12' away with my eyes closed---and, in the dark, I do not want to see where the TV frame is with my eyes open. can the new Kuro manage this disappearing act? :-). )
/iaw
I don't think so, but if you recess the unit in the wall this can be achieved ;)

I don't understand what you're talking about....all components have to be of the same year and brand to get the best picture??? Come on now. I have never in all my years in this hobby bought the same brand component of the same year and I have experienced nothing but great enjoyment a great picture. For example I have an Onkyo pre/pro running to a Pio 5060. I have a BD-30. I'm going to insert a 9G into the chain, replacing the 5060. Are you saying that the picture I get won't be as good as the one I'd get from going all Pio? I don't believe it. And if there is an upgrade it would be minimal IMO. But I don't think there would be.

snss, I'd do some real research before I spent my money on an all Pio system over products of another brand that might be less money and/or of higher quality.

Congrats. I'm about to place an order very shortly. I'm selling my Panny 50 700U soon and I'll be placing my order for a 5020 as well. I'm assuming my Omni mount that I'm using now will work with the 5020.

Yes the Onmi mount will work great with your new PDP-5020FD.

-Robert

snss, I'd do some real research before I spent my money on an all Pio system over products of another brand that might be less money and/or of higher quality.

Hey, I'm just as confused as you were, that is why I asked :)

snss, I'd do some real research before I spent my money on an all Pio system over products of another brand that might be less money and/or of higher quality.

You should read the last 20 pages or so of this thread instead of telling other people to do research. Robert attended a demonstration of the new 9G Kuros and the upcoming generation of Pioneer BD players. Apparently there is a "mode" for the BD to output to a Kuro. At this point, it hasn't been published exactly what this mode does, but for all we know it takes advantage of a specific component of the Kuro processing.

There you have it...it hasn't been published what the mode does. You shouldn't be telling new comers that they have to go with one brand for a great picture. That's BS and you know it!!!

no white glove delivery on the 5020's?

:(

D-NICE lol i think i might be the only person besides you to run my PRO-111FD all 7 days non stop, i guess you're right if it breaks within this time then it wouldnt of lasted that long, but we both know they should last this long lol:rolleyes:



D-nice i hoping and or expect an official oweners thread along with settings and issues, man what a burden on you but i trust in you and no disrespect for other fourm members but you make it seem more right iduuno maybe more professional? sorry if i offend someone else , everyone makes a contribute somehow:p

for Thebarnman that you can burn the break in disc via cd it doesnt have to be dvd.


150 straight hours of the break-in DVD with specific settings. This ensures a comprehensive and even "aging" of each phosphor cell. It's also a "stress test" to ensure your panel is not defective (if your panel cannot take 150 hours of the break-in DVD, it's not going to last long).

All of my settings will be based off of the assumtion that you did the 150 break-in proceedure. It will be up to the panel owner to decide whether to use them or not.

yeah i agree robert saw this with his own eyes, and dont quote me on this but i think robert stated that you still benefit with some advantages on the 8g am i correct robert?

You should read the last 20 pages or so of this thread instead of telling other people to do research. Robert attended a demonstration of the new 9G Kuros and the upcoming generation of Pioneer BD players. Apparently there is a "mode" for the BD to output to a Kuro. At this point, it hasn't been published exactly what this mode does, but for all we know it takes advantage of a specific component of the Kuro processing.

MAN give it a rest robert is trust worthy

There you have it...it hasn't been published what the mode does. You shouldn't be telling new comers that they have to go with one brand for a great picture. That's BS and you know it!!!

There you have it...it hasn't been published what the mode does. You shouldn't be telling new comers that they have to go with one brand for a great picture. That's BS and you know it!!!

Relax. Nobody's saying YOU have to do that, it's just a suggestion. No need to get all bent out of shape over it.

Hi D-Nice, I had a question for you on the break in for 5010 (for MB) and 6020 (for FR).

On the settings forum, you have two sets of settings. setting (A) for break-in, setting (B) for regular watching (it can be used for break-in too, but not optimal). Are you suggesting I don't watch regular TV at all for the first 150 hrs and just run break-in DVD with break-in settings (A) straight to get optimal peformance out of the TV. Am I making a mistake in watching regular TV if I have less than 150 hrs.

I am scheduled to get the 6020 in the next round when the Forum Sponsors get their next allocation, so want to make sure I dont make a mistake since I have already started watching TV on my 5010 which I got over the weekend. I have been running break-in DVD off and on with regular settings.

Will other forum sponsors also match white glove service for the 6020 shipment?

Thanks

I trust Robert. I've been around a long time. I apologize if I came across as a little passionate. But i was new once and I've been misled. I'd be more comfortable if someone had some real data or a group of people had a quantifiable shared experience before I told a newbie (who probably has a budget) that he'll only get a great picture by using componants from the same company and of the same year (generation). Maybe I've been off-base and mis-read the situation. I've been in a "look out for the little guy" mode around my business life.

A quick search comes up with the following article:

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/pioneer-announces-two-new-blu-ray-players/5509

Although a little vague, here is what it says about the new BD players in concert with the Kuros and AV receivers:

Pioneer engineers developed unique performance settings in both players to ensure subtle details, vivid colors and deep shadows are accurately reproduced when shown on KURO displays. When selecting the "Pioneer PDP" in the video adjust mode, the new players will output the appropriate signal to a connected KURO and deliver the best possible image possible for viewers.

In line with the premium movie experience its products provide, Pioneer sought to create jitter-free playback and dynamic sound quality for music CDs. When connected to a new Elite receiver (SC-05 or SC-07) via HDMI, the BDP-05FD enhances CD playback with the proprietary Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS). This advanced feature synchronizes music data coming from the Blu-ray Disc player to the receiver giving music fanatics a revolutionary high resolution listening experience far exceeding traditional methods.

I have a dilemma. I just bought a Samsung LN52A650 and set it up yesterday. Right away, I felt it was too bright and it was too "video-like," I appreciate that look on news shows, and sports casts, but IMO it ruined some of that "I'm watching a movie" feel to the Casino Royale Blu-Ray Disc I was watching. After watching for a couple of hours or so, I developed a headache. The PS3 games did look fantastic on it though. I did mess around with some settings (dimming the backlight and such) but still didn't find a picture I "loved." IMO, I think I misjudged on the brightness. Those who say this is a showroom thing couldn't be more right I've discovered. Of course I should have expected this of myself since I keep my laptop only about 1/4 to 1/2 of the way up on its brightness setting and I am the guy who sits at the very end of the theater (or the last 3 rows only) in the cinema. I have a job where tired eyes and headaches will be a no-no. So discovering all of this yesterday, I decide this morning to go shopping again for a plasma. Saw the Panny800U and the Pio6010FD at Best Buy; both looked incredible. Watched National Treasure on he Pio6010FD and damn if it didn't look exactly liked I expect a movie to look. (still think the LCD does better on the other broadcasts, especially on colors. Pio on broadcast HD looks too saturated at times); but as we all know the Panny is cheaper. After that wandered over to Tweeter and wouldn't you know the LN46A650 is up against the wall with the Pio1150 and 110 and it looks great again! Now I'm wondering if it is my set that needs calibration or just the showroom effect again. Tweeter tried to push the $150 calibration on me right then (Best Buy is $300) but I wanted to get back to the TV again and take another look and see if I could mess around with it some again to get something I can be satisfied with.

So there I stand, it is either stay put or return the Sammy and get the Pio5020 or the Panny800U. So perplexed on what to do. This is my first foray into the HD world. Now I
wander over here and reading about the loss of menu options has also thrown another curve-ball into the mix. If I can be assured that the Pio5020 would look better than the Pio5010 without much hassle or need for calibration (and not be affected by the loss of menu controls) I would feel a whole lot better.

*rant over*

I have a dilemma. I just bought a Samsung LN52A650 and set it up yesterday. Right away, I felt it was too bright and it was too "video-like," I appreciate that look on news shows, and sports casts, but IMO it ruined some of that "I'm watching a movie" feel to the Casino Royale Blu-Ray Disc I was watching. After watching for a couple of hours or so, I developed a headache. The PS3 games did look fantastic on it though. I did mess around with some settings (dimming the backlight and such) but still didn't find a picture I "loved." IMO, I think I misjudged on the brightness. Those who say this is a showroom thing couldn't be more right I've discovered. Of course I should have expected this of myself since I keep my laptop only about 1/4 to 1/2 of the way up on its brightness setting and I am the guy who sits at the very end of the theater (or the last 3 rows only) in the cinema. I have a job where tired eyes and headaches will be a no-no. So discovering all of this yesterday, I decide this morning to go shopping again for a plasma. Saw the Panny800U and the Pio6010FD at Best Buy; both looked incredible. Watched National Treasure on he Pio6010FD and damn if it didn't look exactly liked I expect a movie to look. (still think the LCD does better on the other broadcasts, especially on colors. Pio on broadcast HD looks too saturated at times); but as we all know the Panny is cheaper. After that wandered over to Tweeter and wouldn't you know the LN46A650 is up against the wall with the Pio1150 and 110 and it looks great again! Now I'm wondering if it is my set that needs calibration or just the showroom effect again. Tweeter tried to push the $150 calibration on me right then (Best Buy is $300) but I wanted to get back to the TV again and take another look and see if I could mess around with it some again to get something I can be satisfied with.

So there I stand, it is either stay put or return the Sammy and get the Pio5020 or the Panny800U. So perplexed on what to do. This is my first foray into the HD world. Now I
wander over here and reading about the loss of menu options has also thrown another curve-ball into the mix. If I can be assured that the Pio5020 would look better than the Pio5010 without much hassle or need for calibration (and not be affected by the loss of menu controls) I would feel a whole lot better.

*rant over*

Just a small suggestion:

Have you tried a "home-user friendly" calibration disc like AVIA or Digital Video Essentials (DVE)? Why don't you set up with one of those and see if your current HDTV looks good then? If not, then I would recommend taking it back and trying one of the plasmas. If it is close but not quite good enough after your home calibration, then maybe a professional could take it the last step.

Good luck!

KDD

A quick search comes up with the following article:

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/pioneer-announces-two-new-blu-ray-players/5509

Although a little vague, here is what it says about the new BD players in concert with the Kuros and AV receivers:

Pioneer engineers developed unique performance settings in both players to ensure subtle details, vivid colors and deep shadows are accurately reproduced when shown on KURO displays. When selecting the "Pioneer PDP" in the video adjust mode, the new players will output the appropriate signal to a connected KURO and deliver the best possible image possible for viewers.

In line with the premium movie experience its products provide, Pioneer sought to create jitter-free playback and dynamic sound quality for music CDs. When connected to a new Elite receiver (SC-05 or SC-07) via HDMI, the BDP-05FD enhances CD playback with the proprietary Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS). This advanced feature synchronizes music data coming from the Blu-ray Disc player to the receiver giving music fanatics a revolutionary high resolution listening experience far exceeding traditional methods.


The new Pioneer recivers also pass through the "deep color" (or whatever you want to call it) from the new Pioneer Blu-ray players.

for Thebarnman that you can burn the break in disc via cd it doesnt have to be dvd.


My CD player does not burn CDs. I'll have to look to see where I can get one...

Okay, the new 6020 was delivered to my house today. I will get it set up (mostly) tonight. To answer one question I saw on this thread -- there is NO silver trim whatsoever; the side edges are black, just like everything else on this puppy. So that should please you silver haters :-)

Okay, the new 6020 was delivered to my house today. I will get it set up (mostly) tonight. To answer one question I saw on this thread -- there is NO silver trim whatsoever; the side edges are black, just like everything else on this puppy. So that should please you silver haters :-)

I think that's the LEAST of the questions about the 6020. How about PQ? Picture settings? Color control? Please put up a review ASAP.

Just a small suggestion:

Have you tried a "home-user friendly" calibration disc like AVIA or Digital Video Essentials (DVE)? Why don't you set up with one of those and see if your current HDTV looks good then? If not, then I would recommend taking it back and trying one of the plasmas. If it is close but not quite good enough after your home calibration, then maybe a professional could take it the last step.

Good luck!

KDD

That is my next step. My DVE disc just arrived today. Not at home right now, but I will try this when I get there. Still think the "movie feeling" thing might be the deciding factor for me, since that is what I want the most out of my HDTV.

Movies > Sports > HD TV Shows > Gaming, is the order of things.

I do have a PS3 though and would like to occasionally play a game or two without worry.

naija sounds to me that you like the realistic natural look insted of an "wow pop out" vivid / tourch mode... which is good i do think the 5010 looks great, you can adjust via a calibration disc as per recommended, you can also exchange the until incase that one is not working right although i dont think this is the case, but in my recomendation what the heck are you doing for that cost i'd get the 5010 ... now since you are on this thread something tells me that you are in a feel for 9g;) contact avs forum member sponsers you might be surpise on the price regardless i'd say go with

PIONEER

I have a dilemma. I just bought a Samsung LN52A650 and set it up yesterday. Right away, I felt it was too bright and it was too "video-like," I appreciate that look on news shows, and sports casts, but IMO it ruined some of that "I'm watching a movie" feel to the Casino Royale Blu-Ray Disc I was watching. After watching for a couple of hours or so, I developed a headache. The PS3 games did look fantastic on it though. I did mess around with some settings (dimming the backlight and such) but still didn't find a picture I "loved." IMO, I think I misjudged on the brightness. Those who say this is a showroom thing couldn't be more right I've discovered. Of course I should have expected this of myself since I keep my laptop only about 1/4 to 1/2 of the way up on its brightness setting and I am the guy who sits at the very end of the theater (or the last 3 rows only) in the cinema. I have a job where tired eyes and headaches will be a no-no. So discovering all of this yesterday, I decide this morning to go shopping again for a plasma. Saw the Panny800U and the Pio6010FD at Best Buy; both looked incredible. Watched National Treasure on he Pio6010FD and damn if it didn't look exactly liked I expect a movie to look. (still think the LCD does better on the other broadcasts, especially on colors. Pio on broadcast HD looks too saturated at times); but as we all know the Panny is cheaper. After that wandered over to Tweeter and wouldn't you know the LN46A650 is up against the wall with the Pio1150 and 110 and it looks great again! Now I'm wondering if it is my set that needs calibration or just the showroom effect again. Tweeter tried to push the $150 calibration on me right then (Best Buy is $300) but I wanted to get back to the TV again and take another look and see if I could mess around with it some again to get something I can be satisfied with.

So there I stand, it is either stay put or return the Sammy and get the Pio5020 or the Panny800U. So perplexed on what to do. This is my first foray into the HD world. Now I
wander over here and reading about the loss of menu options has also thrown another curve-ball into the mix. If I can be assured that the Pio5020 would look better than the Pio5010 without much hassle or need for calibration (and not be affected by the loss of menu controls) I would feel a whole lot better.

*rant over*

So, I've been paying attention but cannot figure out what it is that the 3-combo can do that similar quality gear, not of the combo, can't?
Could someone fill me in please?

I'm not seeing this price decrease i thought. Made some calls and the 6020 is the same price as what i could of got a 6010 for when they first came out. I guess at worst buy their will be difference.

You should read the last 20 pages or so of this thread instead of telling other people to do research. Robert attended a demonstration of the new 9G Kuros and the upcoming generation of Pioneer BD players. Apparently there is a "mode" for the BD to output to a Kuro. At this point, it hasn't been published exactly what this mode does, but for all we know it takes advantage of a specific component of the Kuro processing.


Does the 8G Kuro Elite benefit from this mode too like the 9G?

That is my next step. My DVE disc just arrived today.There are a couple of reviews of your set after UMR calibrated them in the flat panel list that is at the bottom of my post.

I like the Kuro PQ personally, but your LCD may have more potential than you realize. According to UMR, posted in the owner's thread, the 650 is very close to the non-Elite Kuro models from 2007 (8G). That's a good group to be in. ;)

No one will give you a really good deal on 6020 when they are highly sought after and not in stock for long. Try again in a month or two, I'm sure you'll get $400 - $500 price break then.

Will 5020's be shipping before the end of June?

^^^^ They should be in anyday, nationwide......

I'm not seeing this price decrease i thought. Made some calls and the 6020 is the same price as what i could of got a 6010 for when they first came out. I guess at worst buy their will be difference. You must have gotten a mis quote on the 6010 then.....

No one will give you a really good deal on 6020 when they are highly sought after and not in stock for long. Try again in a month or two, I'm sure you'll get $400 - $500 price break then.


I doubt that, I think the street price will remain the same for a while.

No one will give you a really good deal on 6020 when they are highly sought after and not in stock for long. Try again in a month or two, I'm sure you'll get $400 - $500 price break then.


What's even more shocking is the 6010 is still going for a few hundred more than the 6020.

You must have gotten a mis quote on the 6010 then.....

Probably, i noticed the price went up.

Law of supply and demand, right now supply is low and demand is high, in 2 months supply will be high and demand lower. We'll see who is right in 2 months :)

The new Pioneer recivers also pass through the "deep color" (or whatever you want to call it) from the new Pioneer Blu-ray players.



Please correct me if I am wrong,

I now have the panasonic 30 bluray player that
states deep color via 1.3 hdmi.

But I was told that in reality there is no such thing as
deep color, because bluray discs (movies)are not made with it yet??

That the whole deep color thing is just a marketing scheme ....

Again this is just what I have been told by others here on the forum.

Yep, that is true, for now "deep color" is just shallow marketing ;)

My 6020 is on its way from Value Electronics as it shipped today.

I just want to say what a class act they are.

Highly recommended!!!!

Cory

There are a couple of reviews of your set after UMR calibrated them in the flat panel list that is at the bottom of my post.

I like the Kuro PQ personally, but your LCD may have more potential than you realize. According to UMR, posted in the owner's thread, the 650 is very close to the non-Elite Kuro models from 2007 (8G). That's a good group to be in. ;)


Thanks. It will be a long night tonight working on this thing. My problem with getting it done professionally, is the dough could easily go towards paying the difference for a Pioneer 5020. I'd hate to pay and still be disappointed, i.e, don't know if calibration can fix that "video" feeling, it seems to be a natural property of LCD.

And another thing, I saw the ISF-calibrated LCD set at Magnolia, and compared to the Pio6010FD which per the salesman was not calibrated, I still felt the difference was incredible. Calibrated LCD looked more natural, true, but also muted--if that makes sense. The 6010 looked natural but with a lot of richness also. Like it found the perfect balance btw richness vs saturation.

[QUOTE=naija;13966173] don't know if calibration can fix that "video" feeling, it seems to be a natural property of LCD.[QUOTE]

I couldn't have said it better myself and I bet there are many, many plasma owners who feel the same.

My 6020 is on the way too. Purchased it from Value Electronics and it was a great experience. Robert was awesome to speak with and the rest of the crew was nice. I highly recommend them. Thanks Robert, Wendy and Jonathan.

I must tell you a couple of things to help clarify my forum contributions, personal and professional relations. I have been an audio, still photography and cine photography enthusiast since childhood.

For most of my adult career I have been a mechanical product developer and senior TV Broadcast sales engineer. I hold two successful mechanical utility patents and have Beta tested most of DIRECWAY's systems for Hughes as well as the first DIRECTV HD STB, the E86 and the DIRECTV's first HD DVR, the HR10-250. I am very proud to be responsible for a lot of the upgrades and advancements in these products. I love advanced technology, the only thing I love even more is teaching technology and this forum's membership. I also get very excited by the advancement in technology and my enthusiasm is easy to see from reading my posts.

Relentlessly I push the CE manufacturers for proper 120Hz so when we are enjoying BD they employ only 5:5 pull down. I push for advancing the science of our beloved passion in every conversation and email I have with every CE supplier.

I've been so busy with running my small business and reporting on all of the new Pioneer products we have coming this year that I have not told you my favorite story that came out of the Pioneer 2008 Elite dealer road show so here goes.

Pioneer hired a very high powered business consulting firm to help them shape Pioneer to be a world class company in everything they do. I won't tell you everything as I would have to write a book but here's a summary of the high points.

First they developed a wild and very catchy print advertising campaign that is unified worldwide. They then told Pioneer's board to stop looking like some big accounting firm and look like a premier entertainment company by dressing up the offices with their new print ads, new PDP panels with beautiful video feeds running all day and showcase all of the industry awards for employees to see. They also held employee education classes to teach and explain Pioneer's product advancements and their industry premier position.

Pioneer had their three consumer divisions in three distant locations around Japan so they moved all engineers to one location and tasked the enormous army of engineering talent to work very closely together and develop extra valuable benefits when connecting two or more Pioneer products in the circuit. This is how the BD player and AVRs got their advantage of back feeding the AVR's accurate quartz timing to the BD player for superior audio playback. Again on the BD side, the up-conversion of the 24 Bit disc to 36 Bit processing increased the amount of colors output so you can easily see the incredible image quality these new Kuros are capable to deliver.

When Pioneer demonstrated these advancements at the dealer conference everyone could easily see and hear the difference. Pioneer is very keenly focused on developing and delivering the very finest entertainment experience possible. And they want to add even more value when you connect Pioneer products together so they can exploit the true power they have built into each device.

Sorry to take so much time, hope many enjoy learning a little of what happens behind the scenes.

-Robert

Amazing service!!! I have a new favorite retailer.

I was apprehensive about the internet order thing but that was cured.

Thank you, we upgraded all PDP-6020FD orders to inside white glove delivery as I did not want anyone to try to lug these big bad boys in by themselves.

Not sure if we'll keep doing it but for now lets just enjoy the TV and save our backs.

-Robert

bird, do u live within 250 miles of him (RObert)?

Yes, Tayja, I did a mapquest check before I called him and it was 176 miles from him in N.Y. to me in R.I.-bird

This may be slightly off topic, but all the talk about Pioneer BD players got me thinking...

I'm going to have a home theater PC (custom built) hooked up to my 5020 when it arrives...what would be the best blueray drive I could get for it? Does pioneer make a bluray drive only, for insert into HTPCs, and will it contain all of these advanced features I'm hearing discussed?

Amazing service!!! I have a new favorite retailer.

I was apprehensive about the internet order thing but that was cured.

Yes I have seen Robert take care of people here for a long time, I am glad he is getting the recognition he deserves. Robert knows im sincere ;)

does all of this mean that we will see the 6020 on amazon soon?

does all of this mean that we will see the 6020 on amazon soon?

Please try the forum sponsors first if at all possible. They rock and will offer more support than any big corporate chain. The only thing different will be the return policy. I'm sure you will get it quicker too.

I recently ordered from one of them and could not be happier. Good Luck!

Please try the forum sponsors first if at all possible. They rock and will offer more support than any big corporate chain. The only thing different will be the return policy. I'm sure you will get it quicker too.

I recently ordered from one of them and could not be happier. Good Luck!

That is a good point. I wonder what the return policy is on these Pioneers from the forum sponsors. I already called 3 here and got good prices on the 5020s should I choose to go that way. I'll just have to remember to hammer this detail out.

FYI, if anyone cares, I got my LN52A650 from Amazon.com and was worried returning it might be a hassle. Turns out they will take it back and I'll only have to pay shipping.

Please correct me if I am wrong,

I now have the panasonic 30 bluray player that
states deep color via 1.3 hdmi.

But I was told that in reality there is no such thing as
deep color, because bluray discs (movies)are not made with it yet??

That the whole deep color thing is just a marketing scheme ....

Again this is just what I have been told by others here on the forum.

Yep, that is true, for now "deep color" is just shallow marketing ;)

For most products, "Deep Color" is indeed simply a marketing term, since without a source, having the ability to display billions of colors (instead of millions) is simply hype.

For the record, although the technology used in Blu-Ray discs (Advanced Video Codecs, etc) has the theoretical capability for 12-bit color (one of the ways to implement Deep Color), there is NO CURRENT SPECIFICATION within Blu-Ray to implement this, so none of the higher bit-depths that COULD be generated from the studio master files is yet available.

What Pioneer has done with the new BD players is to come up with the next best thing, within the limitations of current technology. They are looking at transitions among gradations of color and "smoothing" the transition by using a deeper color depth.

Imagine the following levels of green in eight bit parlance (range 0-255):
Decimal Binary
120 01111000
120 01111000
120 01111000
121 01111001
121 01111001
121 01111001
122 01111010
122 01111010
122 01111010
123 01111011
123 01111011
123 01111011

If you plotted this out on a graph, it would appear to be a digital representation of an analog straight line; unfortunately, it would be "pixelated" or "stair-stepped" due to the limitations of an eight-bit color space. Our eyes can distinguish more than eight-bits worth of color.

By simply translating to 12-bit, the binaries would be:

(This is simply adding null least significant bits, for those who want me to be technical)

Old Decimal Old Binary New (12-bit) binary
120 01111000 011110000000
120 01111000 011110000000
120 01111000 011110000000
121 01111001 011110010000
121 01111001 011110010000
121 01111001 011110010000
122 01111010 011110100000
122 01111010 011110100000
122 01111010 011110100000
123 01111011 011110110000
123 01111011 011110110000
123 01111011 011110110000

Just moving to a 12-bit color space doesn't help here, although if you are doing processing (math) on the image, then it helps prevent rounding errors. However, what Pioneer is doing in the new players is actually interpolating as well, as shown by the following:

Old Decimal Old Binary New (12-bit) binary New (12-bit) decimal
120 01111000 011110000000 1920
120 01111000 011110000000 1920
120 01111000 011110001000 1928
121 01111001 011110010000 1936
121 01111001 011110010000 1936
121 01111001 011110011000 1944
122 01111010 011110100000 1952
122 01111010 011110100000 1952
122 01111010 011110101000 1960
123 01111011 011110110000 1968
123 01111011 011110110000 1968
123 01111011 011110111000 1968

This results in a smoother straight line, or less "stair-stepping" if you will.

By "looking ahead" to the next frame, they can smooth the color transition curve. Then, if there is a display device capable of Deep Color (such as one of our beloved KURO plasmas) the BD player can transmit this smoothed data in a 12-bit color space to the plasma, which then displays a superior image.

This approximation cannot be as good as if we had a TRUE 12-bit source. That said, it IS better than the native data, and will be closer to the original studio masters, within any reasonable statistical probability. My first thought upon seeing this abstract capability described in the Pioneer literature was skepticism; however, our colleague Robert has seen this with his own eyes and has reported on it. I believe that there is meat to this "marketing hype".

I hope that helps--sorry for the length everyone.

KDD

That is a good point. I wonder what the return policy is on these Pioneers from the forum sponsors. I already called 3 here and got good prices on the 5020s should I choose to go that way. I'll just have to remember to hammer this detail out.

FYI, if anyone cares, I got my LN52A650 from Amazon.com and was worried returning it might be a hassle. Turns out they will take it back and I'll only have to pay shipping.

Every forum sponsor has to abide by the distributors and manufacturer's return policies for defective returns, which means that they have at least up to 14 days on a defective panel to file a claim. However, for a non-defective return their is nothing they will do. That is why it nice to have a 90-day satisfaction guarantee for non-defective items...;)

Chris

Please correct me if I am wrong,

I now have the panasonic 30 bluray player that
states deep color via 1.3 hdmi.

But I was told that in reality there is no such thing as
deep color, because bluray discs (movies)are not made with it yet??

That the whole deep color thing is just a marketing scheme ....

Again this is just what I have been told by others here on the forum.

It's true, Blu-ray is limited to what the standard calls for. However where the new Pioneer Blu-ray players get their higher color bit is from a combination of sampling three video frames color information (close to each other and in a certain order) and being able to choose from a much higher amount of colors to be displayed on the screen.

I'm just paraphrasing and all the information is in this thread. From the people who saw it in action, it simply blew their minds...again I'm paraphrasing.

Every forum sponsor has to abide by the distributors and manufacturer's return policies for defective returns, which means that they have at least up to 14 days on a defective panel to file a claim. However, for a non-defective return their is nothing they will do. That is why it nice to have a 90-day satisfaction guarantee for non-defective items...;)

Chris

.... and thus the remaining appeal of a B&M.

*sigh* the process sucks.

.... and thus the remaining appeal of a B&M.

*sigh* the process sucks.

Working with <<Assurz>> (http://www.assurz.com/) is completely painless. They will come to pickup your display. No driving to the store at all. Its all about convenience!

Chris

D-Nice, first off thanks for your time and effort.
As some members already have started receiving their 9G panels,(I'm waiting for a 5020 from Invision) could you suggest break-in settings for the newly setting-restricted non Elite 9Gs. I understand you don't have access to one yet but I'm sure your (very well) educated guess will be fine. Thanks again to you and all the others who help out us lurkers.

Can I leave the burn-in disc running 24 hours a day for 6.25 days (150 hours) straight (with break in settings) without ruining anything on the new G9 set?

For most products, "Deep Color" is indeed simply a marketing term, since without a source, having the ability to display billions of colors (instead of millions) is simply hype.

What Pioneer has done with the new BD players is to come up with the next best thing, within the limitations of current technology. They are looking at transitions among gradations of color and "smoothing" the transition by using a deeper color depth.

If you plotted this out on a graph, it would appear to be a digital representation of an analog straight line; unfortunately, it would be "pixelated" or "stair-stepped" due to the limitations of an eight-bit color space. Our eyes can distinguish more than eight-bits worth of color.

Just moving to a 12-bit color space doesn't help here, although if you are doing processing (math) on the image, then it helps prevent rounding errors. However, what Pioneer is doing in the new players is actually interpolating as well.

This results in a smoother straight line, or less "stair-stepping" if you will.

By "looking ahead" to the next frame, they can smooth the color transition curve. Then, if there is a display device capable of Deep Color (such as one of our beloved KURO plasmas) the BD player can transmit this smoothed data in a 12-bit color space to the plasma, which then displays a superior image.

This approximation cannot be as good as if we had a TRUE 12-bit source. That said, it IS better than the native data, and will be closer to the original studio masters, within any reasonable statistical probability. My first thought upon seeing this abstract capability described in the Pioneer literature was skepticism; however, our colleague Robert has seen this with his own eyes and has reported on it. I believe that there is meat to this "marketing hype".

I hope that helps--sorry for the length everyone.

KDD

It's true, Blu-ray is limited to what the standard calls for. However where the new Pioneer Blu-ray players get their higher color bit is from a combination of sampling three video frames (close to each other and in a certain order) and being able to choose from a much higher amount of colors.

I'm just paraphrasing and all the information is in this thread. From the people who saw it in action, it simply blew their minds...again I'm paraphrasing.

Correct KDD and barman, I can't believe I had to bring out my brothers to help me here. ;)

All kidding aside, I was amazed and very impressed when I viewed Pioneer's BDP-51FD with the PRO-151FD, an exceptional match of true advancements taking advantage of each others very powerful capabilities.

In fact, I was just informed today that my request for a BDP-51FD was confirmed for my 7/18-19/08 flat panel shoot-out. So we'll be demonstrating Pioneer's Elite PRO-111FD with Pioneer's BDP-51FD BD player. I can promise you all attendees will be in shock and awe. (Who can name the man I stoled these last few words from)

-Robert

Regarding the break in period. Is it correct that we should run the break in disc for 150 hours straight and can't watch tv at all during that time?

Regarding the break in period. Is it correct that we should run the break in disc for 150 hour straight and can't watch tv at all during that time?

Yes. It's the first 150 hours of usage.

Regarding the break in period. Is it correct that we should run the break in disc for 150 hours straight and can't watch tv at all during that time?

No. As long as you keep your settings toned down and stick primarly to HD content that fills the whole screen, and avoid static images, you shouldn't worry about breaking the set in. Some will suggest the break-in dvd and qa strict break-in process, and I'm sure it speeds the uniform aging of the phosphers, but it isn't a necessitiy with responsible use.

Correct KDD and barman, I can't believe I had to bring out my brothers to help me here. ;)

All kidding aside, I was amazed and very impressed when I viewed Pioneer's BDP-51FD with the PRO-151FD, an exceptional match of true advancements taking advantage of each others very powerful capabilities.

In fact, I was just informed today that my request for a BDP-51FD was confirmed for my 7/18-19/08 flat panel shoot-out. So we'll be demonstrating Pioneer's Elite PRO-111FD with Pioneer's BDP-51FD BD player. I can promise you all attendees will be in shock and awe. (Who can name the man I stoled these last few words from)

-Robert

I could name the man but I'm too busy sulking because you cut out all my ones and zeros--what good is a long, boring technical post if someone just edits out the boring technical parts?...:D

KDD

There are a couple of reviews of your set after UMR calibrated them in the flat panel list that is at the bottom of my post.

I like the Kuro PQ personally, but your LCD may have more potential than you realize. According to UMR, posted in the owner's thread, the 650 is very close to the non-Elite Kuro models from 2007 (8G). That's a good group to be in. ;)

I actually said the color performance with the A650 is close to an Elite Pioneer plasma post calibration.

For most products, "Deep Color" is indeed simply a marketing term, since without a source, having the ability to display billions of colors (instead of millions) is simply hype.

For the record, although the technology used in Blu-Ray discs (Advanced Video Codecs, etc) has the theoretical capability for 12-bit color (one of the ways to implement Deep Color), there is NO CURRENT SPECIFICATION within Blu-Ray to implement this, so none of the higher bit-depths that COULD be generated from the studio master files is yet available.

What Pioneer has done with the new BD players is to come up with the next best thing, within the limitations of current technology. They are looking at transitions among gradations of color and "smoothing" the transition by using a deeper color depth.

Imagine the following levels of green in eight bit parlance (range 0-255):
Decimal Binary
120 01111000
120 01111000
120 01111000
121 01111001
121 01111001
121 01111001
122 01111010
122 01111010
122 01111010
123 01111011
123 01111011
123 01111011

If you plotted this out on a graph, it would appear to be a digital representation of an analog straight line; unfortunately, it would be "pixelated" or "stair-stepped" due to the limitations of an eight-bit color space. Our eyes can distinguish more than eight-bits worth of color.

By simply translating to 12-bit, the binaries would be:

(This is simply adding null least significant bits, for those who want me to be technical)

Old Decimal Old Binary New (12-bit) binary
120 01111000 011110000000
120 01111000 011110000000
120 01111000 011110000000
121 01111001 011110010000
121 01111001 011110010000
121 01111001 011110010000
122 01111010 011110100000
122 01111010 011110100000
122 01111010 011110100000
123 01111011 011110110000
123 01111011 011110110000
123 01111011 011110110000

Just moving to a 12-bit color space doesn't help here, although if you are doing processing (math) on the image, then it helps prevent rounding errors. However, what Pioneer is doing in the new players is actually interpolating as well, as shown by the following:

Old Decimal Old Binary New (12-bit) binary New (12-bit) decimal
120 01111000 011110000000 1920
120 01111000 011110000000 1920
120 01111000 011110001000 1928
121 01111001 011110010000 1936
121 01111001 011110010000 1936
121 01111001 011110011000 1944
122 01111010 011110100000 1952
122 01111010 011110100000 1952
122 01111010 011110101000 1960
123 01111011 011110110000 1968
123 01111011 011110110000 1968
123 01111011 011110111000 1968

This results in a smoother straight line, or less "stair-stepping" if you will.

By "looking ahead" to the next frame, they can smooth the color transition curve. Then, if there is a display device capable of Deep Color (such as one of our beloved KURO plasmas) the BD player can transmit this smoothed data in a 12-bit color space to the plasma, which then displays a superior image.

This approximation cannot be as good as if we had a TRUE 12-bit source. That said, it IS better than the native data, and will be closer to the original studio masters, within any reasonable statistical probability. My first thought upon seeing this abstract capability described in the Pioneer literature was skepticism; however, our colleague Robert has seen this with his own eyes and has reported on it. I believe that there is meat to this "marketing hype".

I hope that helps--sorry for the length everyone.

KDD

Here ya go Doc, binary and all! :D

WOW!! Many thanks to you & Robert for this info. I've been pretty excited about this new integration of Pioneer's products since the moment I read Robert's first post on it from the Road Show. I was thinking "is this too damn good to be true or what??". Looking forward to reading & learning more as it comes along.

My current set gets about 4-6 hours of standby time. I'm more intrested in knowing the ON time consumption. The spec sheets don't show and nobody knows so, I either got to wait till Cnets review or call Pioneer.

You could use a $20 watt meter like this:
P3 International P4400 Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor

Am I alone in not unplugging my Kuro each night?
I just hit the power button on the remote and I guess that is "Standby" mode.
Should I be unplugging it each night?

The power on consumption is also lower, but only slightly lower by around 10W. When you are consuming 400+ W, 10W probably doesn't matter much as it fluctuates with scenes and power modes. But in Standby, the value is there and hence the new energy star rating.

... but without the CableCard, I will need a Cable Box. I know my Cable Box is warm to the touch (instead it is having to use "Standby" power)

The 9G will have power savings in "Standby" ... if you use Rabbit Ears :p

I'm wondering how many other people are having this current "dilemma."

How many people around here want to get an elite model 111 or 151, but don't have any local Forum dealers and are debating between the forum price on a 5020/6020 vs. MSRP on the 111/151?

I really want the elite model but I just have a real hard time believing that I'll be able to get the big box stores (Best Buy or Tweeter) to negotiate on a brand new model. Not to mention the whole sales tax issue.

While I'm willing to pay for the picture quality upgrade of the Elite, at some point one has to look at this logically and say that the non-Elite pricing + no sales tax is just so much more attractive than paying MSRP + tax on an Elite.

I guess I'm just venting but am wondering who else is in this situation and what you guys are deciding.

Why oh why does Pioneer have that ridiculous policy on selling Elites???

That is a good point. I wonder what the return policy is on these Pioneers from the forum sponsors. I already called 3 here and got good prices on the 5020s should I choose to go that way. I'll just have to remember to hammer this detail out.

FYI, if anyone cares, I got my LN52A650 from Amazon.com and was worried returning it might be a hassle. Turns out they will take it back and I'll only have to pay shipping.
Usually, not always, the better the return policy the more a person pays for a product (Up to full retail). Most venders out there would not leave a client high and dry, but "THE BEST PRICE IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST DEAL."

Right there with you ks-man. I think Im going with a non-elite 5020fd 9g Kuro. Great price, and by the time Im ready to build my dream HT the 10th Gen will be out :)
Keep in mind I have changed my mind about 4 times over the past week, but I really think the 5020fd is a great buy

Am I alone in not unplugging my Kuro each night?
I just hit the power button on the remote and I guess that is "Standby" mode.
Should I be unplugging it each night?

I use the button on my remote to turn my set off too. There's just no way I'm unplugging it every night.

Right there with you ks-man. I think Im going with a non-elite 5020fd 9g Kuro. Great price, and by the time Im ready to build my dream HT the 10th Gen will be out :)
Keep in mind I have changed my mind about 4 times over the past week, but I really think the 5020fd is a great buy

I think that is now what I'm leaning towards as well (although the 6020). I'll wait to hear the initial reviews on it but I just can't tell my wife that it is worth spending an extra $3k for the elite version all in.

It's crazy that Pioneer seems to be trying to up-sell us into the Elites by further distancing the non-elite vs. elite performance (if the earlier posts here are correct) but then make it so difficult to buy the Elites.

I'm with you though that I've changed my mind over every other day I read about these.

I think that is now what I'm leaning towards as well (although the 6020). I'll wait to hear the initial reviews on it but I just can't tell my wife that it is worth spending an extra $3k for the elite version all in.

It's crazy that Pioneer seems to be trying to up-sell us into the Elites by further distancing the non-elite vs. elite performance (if the earlier posts here are correct) but then make it so difficult to buy the Elites.

I'm with you though that I've changed my mind over every other day I read about these.
Yeah, it's hard (really hard) for me to justify the price increase for the Elite given the list of features it has over the non-elite. I asked someone very reputable a few minutes ago if the 5020fd was a step up from the 1150hd and this was the response I received:
"Blacker blacks, higher contrast ratio, a more detailed image quality and higher resolution make this a much better choice over the PRO-1150HD.
"

That kind of put it in perspective for me.

That's a personal choice, not a requirement. However if you are not running the break in disc, you should not be using the break in settings. That's important.

Regarding the break in period. Is it correct that we should run the break in disc for 150 hours straight and can't watch tv at all during that time?

Hey guys I work at a local MHT and a few days ago I noticed in our stock system new skus for the 5020 and 6020 popped up. In stock date says June 22nd. Hopefully we'll have those bad boys on display on 6/22 haha.

That's great news, peejay! Hopefully we'll see the elites percolate in soon after! :)

I hope someone will post the break-in settings for those NOT using a brea-in DVD for the first 150 hrs.

What should be kept low as far as settings??


That's a personal choice, not a requirement. However if you are not running the break in disc, you should not be using the break in settings. That's important.

I'm wondering how many other people are having this current "dilemma."

How many people around here want to get an elite model 111 or 151, but don't have any local Forum dealers and are debating between the forum price on a 5020/6020 vs. MSRP on the 111/151?

I really want the elite model but I just have a real hard time believing that I'll be able to get the big box stores (Best Buy or Tweeter) to negotiate on a brand new model. Not to mention the whole sales tax issue.

While I'm willing to pay for the picture quality upgrade of the Elite, at some point one has to look at this logically and say that the non-Elite pricing + no sales tax is just so much more attractive than paying MSRP + tax on an Elite.

I guess I'm just venting but am wondering who else is in this situation and what you guys are deciding.

Why oh why does Pioneer have that ridiculous policy on selling Elites???

Until a couple days ago I was dead set on getting an Elite, but then I wavered a little bit and started thinking maybe I should go with the 6020 instead. After a lot of careful consideration I've indeed decided the 6020 is the way to go. It's going to offer probably 90-95% of the Elite's performance at a much more attractive price. If Pioneer didn't have their 250 mile radius policy I most likely would've sprung for the 151FD, but as it stands I think I'll be more than happy with the 6020. :cool:

Until a couple days ago I was dead set on getting an Elite, but then I wavered a little bit and started thinking maybe I should go with the 6020 instead. After a lot of careful consideration I've indeed decided the 6020 is the way to go. It's going to offer probably 90-95% of the Elite's performance at a much more attractive price. If Pioneer didn't have their 250 mile radius policy I most likely would've sprung for the 151FD, but as it stands I think I'll be more than happy with the 6020. :cool:

I agree. Although some want perfection and the ability to get the most of out of their display. Although some people can settle, such as me....;)

Chris

I hope someone will post the break-in settings for those NOT using a brea-in DVD for the first 150 hrs.

What should be kept low as far as settings??

I'm pretty sure you at least would want the contrast to be turned down from what ever it's set on when you get it out of the box. Other than that, probably just a good regular setting from some simple adjustments from something like a DVE disc.

I'm still wondering if it's ok to leave the burn-in disc running 24 hours a day for 6.25 days (150 hours) straight. That way I can get the breakin done quite a bit faster. Or would it be better to shut it off now and then during the break-in?

I hope someone will post the break-in settings for those NOT using a brea-in DVD for the first 150 hrs.

What should be kept low as far as settings??For 9G models just use the normal viewing settings for the 8G models.

For 5020/6020 models:
Pioneer 5010FD/6010FD Reference Settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10743815#post10743815)

For 111/151 models:
Pioneer Elite 110FD/150FD Day Settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10743923#post10743923)

Just avoid black bars or fixed images for a couple hundred hours, and then wait for D-Nice to start a 9G settings thread. He will post better "everyday/reference" settings as he gets access to 9G sets.

These are also the settings that should be used by anyone using the break-in disk with the break-in settings (post #1 in the same thread) when they want to watch TV or DVDs during the break-in period.

I'm still wondering if it's ok to leave the burn-in disc running 24 hours a day for 6.25 days (150 hours) straight.As long as your DVD player doesn't hang up with an error message in the middle of the night it should be OK.

That way I can get the breakin done quite a bit faster. Or would it be better to shut it off now and then during the break-in?You can watch "safe" program material if you use D-Nice's reference settings in my previous post along with avoiding black bars and fixed images or logos. It's OK to switch back and forth. It's also OK to turn the set off.

I ran ours non-stop with D-Nice's normal viewing settings (reference) for 500 hours. I switched between the break-in disk, and 16x9 movies or 16x9 HD Discovery Channel programs. After I passed 200 hours I mixed in a couple NFL football games.

Regarding the break in period. Is it correct that we should run the break in disc for 150 hours straight and can't watch tv at all during that time?

Yes. It's the first 150 hours of usage.

Do B&M's do this???

Do B&M's do this???

No, otherwise you would be buying a "used" TV.

How many "open box" PDPs will you leave in your wake?Why do you even care? Everything I touch will be calibrated to D65. Rest assured that no "open box" PDP I touch will go unsold my friend.

Can't you just use 8G/9G PDP + BD Player? skip on the receiver?
Yes you can. If you want a A/V receiver, just make sure it has HDMI 1.3a or higher ports and is capable passing a 12bit 4:4:4 signal.

D-nice i hoping and or expect an official oweners thread along with settings and issues, man what a burden on you but i trust in you and no disrespect for other fourm members but you make it seem more right iduuno maybe more professional? sorry if i offend someone else , everyone makes a contribute somehow:pYes, we will have an owner's thread, general discussion thread (probably just rename this one) and a calibration/issues thread.

Yes, we will have an owner's thread, general discussion thread (probably just rename this one) and a calibration/issues thread.

Thank you D-Nice!! I'm really looking forward to all your advice and tweaks for the Elites. :D

Hi D-Nice, I had a question for you on the break in for 5010 (for MB) and 6020 (for FR).

On the settings forum, you have two sets of settings. setting (A) for break-in, setting (B) for regular watching (it can be used for break-in too, but not optimal). Are you suggesting I don't watch regular TV at all for the first 150 hrs and just run break-in DVD with break-in settings (A) straight to get optimal peformance out of the TV.That is what I recommend, however it is not manditory.

Am I making a mistake in watching regular TV if I have less than 150 hrs.No. You can use the "Reference" settings and make sure you minimize (or eliminate) any non-fullscreen viewing for the first 150 hours. You can even mix the break-in DVD with normal viewing.

I trust Robert. I've been around a long time. I apologize if I came across as a little passionate. But i was new once and I've been misled. I'd be more comfortable if someone had some real data or a group of people had a quantifiable shared experience before I told a newbie (who probably has a budget) that he'll only get a great picture by using componants from the same company and of the same year (generation). Maybe I've been off-base and mis-read the situation. I've been in a "look out for the little guy" mode around my business life.
You will get an optimized BD experience with the BDP51 or 05. You will get a great experience with any BD player.

D-Nice,

Do you know if the Elite 92TXH meets the 12bit 4:4:4 signal standard you spoke of above? I know it has HDMI 1.3a ports, but I don't know if it is able to pass the 12 bit signal.

Why do you even care? Everything I touch will be calibrated to D65. Rest assured that no "open box" PDP I touch will go unsold my friend.

I don't think he meant your PDPs D-Nice - I think he meant if you gave a less than positive review of the non-elite how many would be sent back... that's the way I read it anyway.

I'm still wondering if it's ok to leave the burn-in disc running 24 hours a day for 6.25 days (150 hours) straight.It is ok to leave it running that long. I did it with mine....zero problems.

I don't think he meant your PDPs D-Nice - I think he meant if you gave a less than positive review of the non-elite how many would be sent back... that's the way I read it anyway.I don't think that was optivity's interntion ;)

However, I don't sugar coat anything. If the non-Elite performs less than the 8G non-Elites, you best believe I will not hold my tongue on pointing out it's weaknesses.

D-Nice,

Do you know if the Elite 92TXH meets the 12bit 4:4:4 signal standard you spoke of above? I know it has HDMI 1.3a ports, but I don't know if it is able to pass the 12 bit signal.The 92TXH can pass a 12bit 4:4:4 signal.

... but without the CableCard, I will need a Cable Box. I know my Cable Box is warm to the touch (instead it is having to use "Standby" power)

The 9G will have power savings in "Standby" ... if you use Rabbit Ears :p

Yeah, that Dish HD DVR doesn't save a nickel when it is turned "off". :(

Yes you can. If you want a A/V receiver, just make sure it has HDMI 1.3a or higher ports and is capable passing a 12bit 4:4:4 signal.


Thanks seems inadequate for the mounds of information you give us, but - thanks!

Is there some spec we can use to identify those recievers capable of transmitting 12bit 4:4:4 signal? Is the "deep color" support an indication of this?

You will get an optimized BD experience with the BDP51 or 05. You will get a great experience with any BD player.

Hi D-Nice, does this new "optimized" BD experience apply to the 8G Elites too? Is the new blu-ray player's "Pioneer PDP" mode only compatible with the new 9G? Or does the 8G Kuro Elite also benefit in the same way? Thanks in advance for clarifying.

Do B&M's do this???Does the owner's manual for any PDP recommend the use of the break-in DVD?

Hi D-Nice, does this new "optimized" BD experience apply to the 8G Elites too? Is the new blu-ray player's "Pioneer PDP" mode only compatible with the new 9G? Or does the 8G Kuro Elite also benefit in the same way? Thanks in advance for clarifying.

Great Question,,

Just to add to it,, Is it really necessary to use a 1.3 Cable or
any Hdmi cable will work?? I was told that supposively the 1.3 cable is again just a marketing scheme.... Sorry for hijacking.....

Now that I've set up the 6020, here's a mini-review. Please note this is strictly my viewpoint, and I realize that some of you have other priorities in the picture. I'm moving from a 42" Fujitsu plasma and I wanted to retain high apparent image quality while moving up to a much larger screen, to take full advantage of 1080p. I want an image that's at least as punchy and bright as I'm used to, with good blacks, although I don't consider black level as a factor to which brightness should be completely sacrificed.

With default settings, I found the picture dull -- rather like watching the TV with sunglasses on. Sure, the blacks are deep in these settings, although not quite as deep as the bezel. Shadow detail seemed lacking, even in a darkened room. So far, I have adjusted the mode to Standard, and increased brightness and contrast several notches. In a dark room, I think I've achieved a balanced image that's punchy enough, with reasonable shadow detail, while retaining fairly good blacks in a dark viewing room. I'm pleased with color saturation at higher brightness too.

Subjective quality of viewed content: I'm viewing the 60" image at 8 feet, and relieved that even SD content (good SD digital TV channels and DVDs) are acceptable. The 6020 does a good job of upscaling DVDs from a 480p source, even through component. The reds in the Star Wars prequels are smooth and noise-free, something I didn't get on my old plasma. TV sources (720p and 1080i) are of course excellent. I haven't looked into noise reduction settings, etc, but first impressions on HD broadcasts are very good, with smooth and detailed images. Switching channels is slow and painful before the tuner locks in, but I guess that's a fact of life with digital TV (I'm using over-the-air reception right now). I do not yet have a Blu-ray setup that I can test, but I'm sure 1080p will be awesome, since the lower sources are pretty good already.

On the stand, this baby is really high! As some people have pointed out about the 6010, it can't be adjusted downwards if you remove the TV's own speaker, which is crazy. I may be forced to wall-mount the screen, just to get it closer to eye level. But at least the gap between screen and stand gives you somewhere to put your center speaker, if you haven't got a better place to put it. Overall, I'm quite happy with the set so far.

I know other folks will turn in detailed reports. But if you want me to check something, I'll do my best.

Does anyone know, will the 20 series display the upgraded colors when paired with the new Pio BD players? Or are these just Elite features? Thanks

I pre-ordered a BDP-05FD. Do you have an update on when we might expect shipping of this Elite BD player? I assume it's later than the 51FD.

Correct KDD and barman, I can't believe I had to bring out my brothers to help me here. ;)

All kidding aside, I was amazed and very impressed when I viewed Pioneer's BDP-51FD with the PRO-151FD, an exceptional match of true advancements taking advantage of each others very powerful capabilities.

In fact, I was just informed today that my request for a BDP-51FD was confirmed for my 7/18-19/08 flat panel shoot-out. So we'll be demonstrating Pioneer's Elite PRO-111FD with Pioneer's BDP-51FD BD player. I can promise you all attendees will be in shock and awe. (Who can name the man I stoled these last few words from)

-Robert

Now that I've set up the 6020, here's a mini-review. Please note this is strictly my viewpoint, and I realize that some of you have other priorities in the picture. I'm moving from a 42" Fujitsu plasma and I wanted to retain high apparent image quality while moving up to a much larger screen, to take full advantage of 1080p. I want an image that's at least as punchy and bright as I'm used to, with good blacks, although I don't consider black level as a factor to which brightness should be completely sacrificed.

With default settings, I found the picture dull -- rather like watching the TV with sunglasses on. Sure, the blacks are deep in these settings, although not quite as deep as the bezel. Shadow detail seemed lacking, even in a darkened room. So far, I have adjusted the mode to Standard, and increased brightness and contrast several notches. In a dark room, I think I've achieved a balanced image that's punchy enough, with reasonable shadow detail, while retaining fairly good blacks in a dark viewing room. I'm pleased with color saturation at higher brightness too.

Subjective quality of viewed content: I'm viewing the 60" image at 8 feet, and relieved that even SD content (good SD digital TV channels and DVDs) are acceptable. The 6020 does a good job of upscaling DVDs from a 480p source, even through component. The reds in the Star Wars prequels are smooth and noise-free, something I didn't get on my old plasma. TV sources (720p and 1080i) are of course excellent. I haven't looked into noise reduction settings, etc, but first impressions on HD broadcasts are very good, with smooth and detailed images. Switching channels is slow and painful before the tuner locks in, but I guess that's a fact of life with digital TV (I'm using over-the-air reception right now). I do not yet have a Blu-ray setup that I can test, but I'm sure 1080p will be awesome, since the lower sources are pretty good already.

On the stand, this baby is really high! As some people have pointed out about the 6010, it can't be adjusted downwards if you remove the TV's own speaker, which is crazy. I may be forced to wall-mount the screen, just to get it closer to eye level. But at least the gap between screen and stand gives you somewhere to put your center speaker, if you haven't got a better place to put it. Overall, I'm quite happy with the set so far.

I know other folks will turn in detailed reports. But if you want me to check something, I'll do my best.

How about colors accuracy and skin tone ? Do they look natural to you ?

Thanks for your review...

Any pictures ?

Eric

Does anyone know, will the 20 series display the upgraded colors when paired with the new Pio BD players? Or are these just Elite features? ThanksThis is nothing more then a sales gimmick that was concocted by Pioneer to get you to buy their overpriced Blu-ray player to go along with one of their overpriced PDPs.

You will see no significant difference with the play-back of Blu-ray discs regardless if the Blu-ray player is a PS3, a BDP-S550 (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/sony-announces-bdp-s350-bdp-s550-first-new-blu-ray-players-sin/) (my recommendation) or a BDP-05FD.

Compare the BDP-05FD & BDP-S550 (http://www.blu-ray.com/players/compare.php?checkbox14=37&checkbox34=63&submitA=Compare&action=compare) for yourself.

Hi D-Nice, does this new "optimized" BD experience apply to the 8G Elites too?Yes.

mazzer, as the 1st reviewer of the new Pioneer PDP, I think youi should start the "Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Display Owner's Discussion Thread" and repost your review there.

Congrats! :D

Now that I've set up the 6020, here's a mini-review. Please note this is strictly my viewpoint, and I realize that some of you have other priorities in the picture. I'm moving from a 42" Fujitsu plasma and I wanted to retain high apparent image quality while moving up to a much larger screen, to take full advantage of 1080p. I want an image that's at least as punchy and bright as I'm used to, with good blacks, although I don't consider black level as a factor to which brightness should be completely sacrificed.

With default settings, I found the picture dull -- rather like watching the TV with sunglasses on. Sure, the blacks are deep in these settings, although not quite as deep as the bezel. Shadow detail seemed lacking, even in a darkened room. So far, I have adjusted the mode to Standard, and increased brightness and contrast several notches. In a dark room, I think I've achieved a balanced image that's punchy enough, with reasonable shadow detail, while retaining fairly good blacks in a dark viewing room. I'm pleased with color saturation at higher brightness too.

Subjective quality of viewed content: I'm viewing the 60" image at 8 feet, and relieved that even SD content (good SD digital TV channels and DVDs) are acceptable. The 6020 does a good job of upscaling DVDs from a 480p source, even through component. The reds in the Star Wars prequels are smooth and noise-free, something I didn't get on my old plasma. TV sources (720p and 1080i) are of course excellent. I haven't looked into noise reduction settings, etc, but first impressions on HD broadcasts are very good, with smooth and detailed images. Switching channels is slow and painful before the tuner locks in, but I guess that's a fact of life with digital TV (I'm using over-the-air reception right now). I do not yet have a Blu-ray setup that I can test, but I'm sure 1080p will be awesome, since the lower sources are pretty good already.

On the stand, this baby is really high! As some people have pointed out about the 6010, it can't be adjusted downwards if you remove the TV's own speaker, which is crazy. I may be forced to wall-mount the screen, just to get it closer to eye level. But at least the gap between screen and stand gives you somewhere to put your center speaker, if you haven't got a better place to put it. Overall, I'm quite happy with the set so far.

I know other folks will turn in detailed reports. But if you want me to check something, I'll do my best.

I don't think that was optivity's interntion ;)

However, I don't sugar coat anything. If the non-Elite performs less than the 8G non-Elites, you best believe I will not hold my tongue on pointing out it's weaknesses.

Honesty, intelligence and dilligence on behalf of us....thanks D-Nice!

And I did not know that the 8g Elites could work in this new way with the new Pio. BD players and avr's.....since I don't see any "Pioneer" mode for it to choose in the menu?

Is it really necessary to use a 1.3 Cable or
any Hdmi cable will work??Any quality HDMI cable should work fine. Also, you do not have to pay out the wazoo to get high quality cables. Monoprice and Blue Jean cables work perfectly fine.

Thanks for everyones help, I searched this thread and found out the PC input does have DVI for the 5020, but my question is, this DVI PC input connection does have audio inputs I can associate with it as well correct? I would assume so, but I am just making sure :)

Thanks

Yes.

Awesome! Thanks for your reply.

Hi All just thought i would put this review up for you all as i found this info on another forum for the Pioneer LX-6090H

so here it is

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.hemmabiocenter.se%2Fcategory%2 Ftv-apparater%2F&hl=sv&ie=UTF8&sl=sv&tl=en

enjoy

The new Pioneer receivers will have...
HDMI Deep Color / 30-bit / 36-bit 4:4:4 color depth / X.V. Color Support"

Do you know if this is with ALL the new Pio receivers or just the Elites? Thanks

Well, I could hold out no longer so I ordered a 151! Fingers crossed for an early release.:):):)

There you have it...it hasn't been published what the mode does. You shouldn't be telling new comers that they have to go with one brand for a great picture. That's BS and you know it!!!

Why all the anger and hostility? One can easily question someone's opinion or disagree with them without being so rude. Try it sometime ... you may actually like how people respond to you.

Pretty exciting to see people getting their sets already, some pics would be awesome. I've been shopping for months and months, gonna pull the trigger before football season. The 6020 is looking very promising.

Mazzer, thanks for posting your initial comments and I'm sure there will be many more. I would like to see a picture of the 6020 on its stand, if possible. Of course, it would great if there were a picture on the screen too! :D

Great Question,,

Just to add to it,, Is it really necessary to use a 1.3 Cable or
any Hdmi cable will work?? I was told that supposively the 1.3 cable is again just a marketing scheme.... Sorry for hijacking.....

HDMI 1.3 Cable has a much higher bandwidth than HDMI 1.1.

Now that I've set up the 6020, here's a mini-review.
...
With default settings, I found the picture dull -- rather like watching the TV with sunglasses on. Sure, the blacks are deep in these settings, although not quite as deep as the bezel. Shadow detail seemed lacking, even in a darkened room. So far, I have adjusted the mode to Standard, and increased brightness and contrast several notches. In a dark room, I think I've achieved a balanced image that's punchy enough, with reasonable shadow detail, while retaining fairly good blacks in a dark viewing room. I'm pleased with color saturation at higher brightness too.
...
I know other folks will turn in detailed reports. But if you want me to check something, I'll do my best.

Thanks for the preview. What about viewing in a day-lit room, which isn't dark? Can you perform that comparison?

Great Question,,

Just to add to it,, Is it really necessary to use a 1.3 Cable or
any Hdmi cable will work?? I was told that supposively the 1.3 cable is again just a marketing scheme.... Sorry for hijacking.....

Look for HDMI cable rated at 340MHz.

HDMI FAQ (http://hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx)

Anyone know if any of the 9G manuals are available (PDF) anywhere on-line?

I checked the Pio site; if they were there, I missed 'em!

-George

Thanks for the preview. What about viewing in a day-lit room, which isn't dark? Can you perform that comparison?

Thanks for the review. So how would you rate it as of right now?

HerbalEd, what part of this statement don't you understand? "I apologize if I came across as a little passionate." That was yesterday. I'm not going to go through the posts to find what triggered my passionate response. Let me say though when I came on these forums 6 years ago I knew nothing and had little money with a large desire to have some kind of home theater system. I overspent because so-called forum experts sold me on their preferences. I wasted some bit of money buying, for example, DVD players by Denon when Oppo was better for less money. Oh, I was told...you have to have an all Denon system to get the best picture and audio. Well, years later, what I have now is mismatched equiptment set bought within my budget that is more than good enough or me. I don't want people with 13 posts and a certain naivety to fall into the same traps I did. There are people who have I have come to trust over the years, D-nice, Robert and many others. They've proved themselves. Most others have proved themselves to be parrots that pass on information as if it is expert opinion. D-nice and Optivity have pointed out (after my post) that one can get a truly great picture with a 9G and just about any BD player and just about any latest gen receiver.

I'm wary of marketing hype. That's what I read... a repeat of marketing hype to a newcomer based on the observations of one man albeit a respected man but, still, only one man.

Mazzer, thanks for the review. What do you think of the screen's reflectiveness?

Correct KDD and barman, I can't believe I had to bring out my brothers to help me here. ;)

All kidding aside, I was amazed and very impressed when I viewed Pioneer's BDP-51FD with the PRO-151FD, an exceptional match of true advancements taking advantage of each others very powerful capabilities.

In fact, I was just informed today that my request for a BDP-51FD was confirmed for my 7/18-19/08 flat panel shoot-out. So we'll be demonstrating Pioneer's Elite PRO-111FD with Pioneer's BDP-51FD BD player. I can promise you all attendees will be in shock and awe. (Who can name the man I stoled these last few words from)

-Robert

Robert, Just to follow up on your question above, I thought I remember that phrase came from the first Gulf War but I can't say for sure since I was involved in the war and saw little of the press coverage at that time. But the concept came from Harlan K. Ullman a former Naval Commander.

How about colors accuracy and skin tone ? Do they look natural to you ?

Thanks for your review...

Any pictures ?

Eric

Yes, color accuracy looks good. The whites seem clear too, in contrast to some reports I'd read on last year's models. (I watched an extract of an ice hockey game, and I felt the ice was well-rendered by the TV).

I'm happy to post pictures, although I think pictures of the screen's image only represent the camera's rendering and exposure, not the actual TV's. What's the easiest way to upload pictures on the forum, and to where?

This is nothing more then a sales gimmick that was concocted by Pioneer to get you to buy their overpriced Blu-ray player to go along with one of their overpriced PDPs.

You will see no significant difference with the play-back of Blu-ray discs regardless if the Blu-ray player is a PS3, a BDP-S550 (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/sony-announces-bdp-s350-bdp-s550-first-new-blu-ray-players-sin/) (my recommendation) or a BDP-05FD.

Compare the BDP-05FD & BDP-S550 (http://www.blu-ray.com/players/compare.php?checkbox14=37&checkbox34=63&submitA=Compare&action=compare) for yourself.

Why do you say this with such certainty? Have you done A-B comparisons yourself? :confused:

I too am skeptical, but Robert doesn't seem to be based on the dealers' Elite training he recently attended. As far as I know, no one else on the forum has seen the "total Pioneer with Deep Color" hookup and been able to confirm or deny his observations, and given his reputation, I would certainly give him the benefit of the doubt.

My earlier posts about Deep Color, albeit lengthy, were to try and support the concept that Robert was describing. Many of us care about the best possible visual experience, and if the experience that Robert had generalizes to the production run of players/receivers/sets then there MAY indeed be a benefit to matching Pioneer equipment. I don't advocate buying blindly, so my only advice to the newcomer would be "There might actually be something to this whole Deep Color business on Pioneer--but whether it makes a difference to you remains to be seen. If it is very important to you to have the very best possible (instead of simply great) picture, wait a few months until you can compare for yourself."

KDD

HerbalEd, what part of this statement don't you understand? "I apologize if I came across as a little passionate." That was yesterday. I'm not going to go through the posts to find what triggered my passionate response. Let me say though when I came on these forums 6 years ago I knew nothing and had little money with a large desire to have some kind of home theater system. I overspent because so-called forum experts sold me on their preferences. I wasted some bit of money buying, for example, DVD players by Denon when Oppo was better for less money. Oh, I was told...you have to have an all Denon system to get the best picture and audio. Well, years later, what I have now is mismatched equiptment set bought within my budget that is more than good enough or me. I don't want people with 13 posts and a certain naivety to fall into the same traps I did. There are people who have I have come to trust over the years, D-nice, Robert and many others. They've proved themselves. Most others have proved themselves to be parrots that pass on information as if it is expert opinion. D-nice and Optivity have pointed out (after my post) that one can get a truly great picture with a 9G and just about any BD player and just about any latest gen receiver. .

My apology, Glashub. I missed a day and was 6 pages behind in this forum. I wrote my reply to your rant before I saw your later apology post. Actually, before I read your most recent post above I had already gone back and deleted my last post to you. Hoping to cut you some slack. Sorry I didn't do it faster.

BTW, I understand your frustrations re. careless or deliberate misinformation on this forum ... or life in general. A key important skill to attain in life ... and not an easy one ... is to keep our cool in stressful situations ... including even with ignorant a__ holes. However, occasionally a compassionate, non-angry kick in the ass (verbally or physically) is the loving thing to do for some people. Just keep centered and cool even then. Living here in Thailand is helping me learn this skill a bit faster ... or so my long-time friends tell be. But I do still sometimes loose it more than I want, but a lot less that I did before. Stay cool, bro. Peace & Love, Herbal Ed

I overspent because so-called forum experts sold me on their preferences. I wasted some bit of money buying, for example, DVD players by Denon when Oppo was better for less money. We seem to have come to AVS at about the same time. It's interesting that I bought an OPPO, and you have a chip on your shoulder because you took expensive advise that wasn't the best for you. ;)

I'm happy to post pictures, although I think pictures of the screen's image only represent the camera's rendering and exposure, not the actual TV's. What's the easiest way to upload pictures on the forum, and to where?

mazzer,

Thanks so much for the impressions. You should be able to create a free account on a site like www.flickr.com and upload the pictures for free. There are multiple options out there, but this might be the quickest and easiest ways to get your pictures up.

We seem to have come to AVS at about the same time. It's interesting that I bought an OPPO, and you have a chip on your shoulder because you took expensive advise that wasn't the best for you. ;)

In the end you have to make the choice that is best for you, take the advice from the experts but always decide for yourself.

I would buy a oppo bluray player in a minute :)

Can someone write a 6020FD for crying out loud? LOL!

Chris

Can someone write a 6020FD for crying out loud? LOL!

Chris

sure, here you go...

a 6020FD for crying out loud

Ah forget about it, htwaits. It seems to me that only a person with a chip on his shoulder would open up a new front on a poster trying to make amends and give an explantion. But what do I know.

HerbalEd, no worries. Thanks. Take care.

Where are all the reviews?

Mattias (a VERY skilled ISF dealer) review is up on our site as well, Pioneer PDP-6090H(EU version) (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.component.se%2Fdocs.php%3Fid%3D 72&hl=sv&ie=UTF8&sl=sv&tl=en) (google-translate from swedish)

The google translation is far from perfect but I hope some of it will make sense.

Some quick points:
- Even betters colors than G8. In terms of saturation and tint all colors follows the HD-standard, blue a bit under saturated though. maybe even more important, the colors lightness, not visible in a CIE diagram and something that most set manufactures can't get right, are also very close to perfect. Overall, as close to perfect colors you can get (unless you have the latest Samsung DLP projector)
- Better default-gammacurves, a little bit to bright near black though (on the other hand, details in this area will be very visible). The EU 6090 models lacks 9 point gamma EQ in the user menu and the reviewer didn't enter the ISF-menus which should make the gamma-curve basicly perfect.
- Brighter than G8 when calibrated since gain (contrast) didn't have to be lowered that much in order to maintain good D65- and gamma tracking
- Visibly better blacks than G8, not messured though since the room was not totaly dark.
- The EU 6090H contains a Pure mode. Best Pioneer out-of-the-box setting ever but calibrated picture is even better.
- Overall, the best flat-screen display in the world just got better. ;)

Where are all the reviews?

Probably have to wait until the weekend to see some in depth reviews.

Note that the EU PDP-6090H is equivalent to the US Elite.

In the end you have to make the choice that is best for you, take the advice from the experts but always decide for yourself.That's what I've always done, and I have a long list of dead end purchases to prove it. :eek:

BetaMax and HD-DVD are just two examples. ;)

Probably have to wait until the weekend to see some in depth reviews.

What? You mean no one suddenly came down with a bad case of the Kuro virus, coincidentally cured only by fastidiously watching content on a newly delivered 6020 until one's eyes start to bleed? What else are sick hours for? Then again, taking time off to write a review would not cure the illness... :)

Mattias (a VERY skilled ISF dealer) review is up on our site as well, Pioneer PDP-6090H(EU version) (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.component.se%2Fdocs.php%3Fid%3D 72&hl=sv&ie=UTF8&sl=sv&tl=en) (google-translate from swedish)

The google translation is far from perfect but I hope some of it will make sense.

Some quick points:
- Even betters colors than G8. In terms of saturation and tint all colors follows the HD-standard, blue a bit under saturated though. maybe even more important, the colors lightness, not visible in a CIE diagram and something that most set manufactures can't get right, are also very close to perfect. Overall, as close to perfect colors you can get (unless you have the latest Samsung DLP projector)
- Better default-gammacurves, a little bit to bright near black though (on the other hand, details in this area will be very visible). The EU 6090 models lacks 9 point gamma EQ in the user menu and the reviewer didn't enter the ISF-menus which should make the gamma-curve basicly perfect.
- Brighter than G8 when calibrated since gain (contrast) didn't have to be lowered that much in order to maintain good D65- and gamma tracking
- Visibly better blacks than G8, not messured though since the room was not totaly dark.
- The EU 6090H contains a Pure mode. Best Pioneer out-of-the-box setting ever but calibrated picture is even better.
- Overall, the best flat-screen display in the world just got better. ;)

already posted this about the link post 3153 just a few above yours and not one person said thanks for it posting it dont know why i bothered.

already posted this about the link post 3153 just a few above yours and not one person said thanks for it posting it dont know why i bothered.

You didn't get the flowers I sent you?? Suck it up buttercup.

Thanks Meridius. Do we need to have a group hug? :)

lol, having a bad day today washer just buggered up never mind anyway what about

(buzzing, PWM-noise) on these new 9G have thay been improved or fixed over the G8 ?

What? You mean no one suddenly came down with a bad case of the Kuro virus, coincidentally cured only by fastidiously watching content on a newly delivered 6020 until one's eyes start to bleed? What else are sick hours for? Then again, taking time off to write a review would not cure the illness... :)

Got to work to pay for the 6020FD though. Don't worry guys, reviews will be coming soon.

Probably have to wait until the weekend to see some in depth reviews.

I think it's pretty cool that some of the 1st people in America to get the new 20 series Kuros are regular AVS members that bought from AVS sponsors. It says a lot about this forum, Pioneer, and especially the forum sponsors. Not much upfront marketing / reviews necessary...Pioneer knows they make the best panels and they send their first shipments to their trusted online dealers to get them in the hands of regular customers as soon as possible. I can't wait to get my 5020!

Yes, color accuracy looks good. The whites seem clear too, in contrast to some reports I'd read on last year's models. (I watched an extract of an ice hockey game, and I felt the ice was well-rendered by the TV).

I'm happy to post pictures, although I think pictures of the screen's image only represent the camera's rendering and exposure, not the actual TV's. What's the easiest way to upload pictures on the forum, and to where?

Thanks for the information. The ice hockey exemple was exacly what I was looking for...

Eric

HDMI 1.3 Cable has a much higher bandwidth than HDMI 1.1.This is misleading. A certified HDMI 1.3 only means it was tested per 1.3 standards and passed. That does not mean that a non-HDMI 1.3 cable cannot meet or exceed those same tests. Nothing has changed in the design of a HDMI cable since HDMI was first introduced.

Thanks Meridius. Do we need to have a group hug? :)

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/6.gif

This is misleading. A certified HDMI 1.3 only means it was tested per 1.3 standards and passed. That does not mean that a non-HDMI 1.3 cable cannot meet or exceed those same tests. Nothing has changed in the design of a HDMI cable since HDMI was first introduced.

+1

Cannot wait till we get a ISF calibrator to comment on the 5020 and 6020 results of color testing once the units come in.

I'm happy to post pictures, although I think pictures of the screen's image only represent the camera's rendering and exposure, not the actual TV's.

Wiser words were never said.

Knocks me out all the people that want to draw comparisons based on posted pictures.

But pictures are fun!

I'm happy to post pictures, although I think pictures of the screen's image only represent the camera's rendering and exposure, not the actual TV's.

Not to mention the viewer's monitor.

Sine none of the first 9G Kuro owners (lucky SOBs :)) wants to take the honor of creating an official owners thread, would you like me to create it?

I think the forum agreed to have "The Official 9G non-Elite Owners Thread" and "The Official 9G Elite Owners Thread".

Is the 6090H equal to the 6020 or the 151?

Is the 6090H equal to the 6020 or the 151?
151

Sine none of the fiest 9G Kuro owners (lucky SOBs :)) wants to take the honor of creating an officail owners thread, would you like me to create it?

I think the forum agreed to have "The Official 9G non-Elite Owners Thread" and "The Official 9G Elite Owners Thread".

YES PLZ!!!!!

(PS: D, don't I remember Robert or Roman offering to ship you out their first 9G panel(s) for quick review and evaluation? Is that still happening? What's the status on that?)

Sine none of the fiest 9G Kuro owners (lucky SOBs :)) wants to take the honor of creating an officail owners thread, would you like me to create it?

I think the forum agreed to have "The Official 9G non-Elite Owners Thread" and "The Official 9G Elite Owners Thread".

Do you own one?:D;)

Sine none of the first 9G Kuro owners (lucky SOBs :)) wants to take the honor of creating an official owners thread, would you like me to create it?

I think the forum agreed to have "The Official 9G non-Elite Owners Thread" and "The Official 9G Elite Owners Thread".

I vote for you but thats my opinion :)

Sine none of the first 9G Kuro owners (lucky SOBs :)) wants to take the honor of creating an officail owners thread, would you like me to create it?

I think the forum agreed to have "The Official 9G non-Elite Owners Thread" and "The Official 9G Elite Owners Thread".

I think it's time, since we are beginning to have owners posting their impressions, and it seems a little silly to have them in the pre-release thread.

YES PLZ!!!!!

(PS: D, don't I remember Robert or Roman offering to ship you out their first 9G panel(s) for quick review and evaluation? Is that still happening? What's the status on that?)It's being worked on :)

YES PLZ!!!!!

(PS: D, don't I remember Robert or Roman offering to ship you out their first 9G panel(s) for quick review and evaluation? Is that still happening? What's the status on that?)

It was Robert lol

Sine none of the first 9G Kuro owners (lucky SOBs :)) wants to take the honor of creating an official owners thread, would you like me to create it?

I think the forum agreed to have "The Official 9G non-Elite Owners Thread" and "The Official 9G Elite Owners Thread".Please do. :D

Sometimes the first new owners don't have the interest to collect information into the first few posts over the useful life of the thread.

It was Robert lol

;) Thanks for that Robert. Roman I guess that means you still have some free panels you can ship to me, right? :D

Yes,please do

Done. Owners, please place your impressions in that thread. Thanks.

already posted this about the link post 3153 just a few above yours and not one person said thanks for it posting it dont know why i bothered.

gee, maybe because 99% of the US is at work right now and not monitoring an avs thread.

D-Nice's owner's thread is located here:

The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1034208)

151

but haven't you said that there will be calibration/menu differeces between the 151 and the 6020? as far as I know, the only difference between the 6090 and the 6090H is the DNLA capability and the satelite tuner? Is it because both the european models are aqual to the ELITE in terms of PQ and calibration options?

but haven't you said that there will be calibration/menu differeces between the 151 and the 6020? as far as I know, the only difference between the 6090 and the 6090H is the DNLA capability and the satelite tuner? Is it because both the european models are aqual to the ELITE in terms of PQ and calibration options?

Yep both EU models are equal to the US Elite. We don't get a cut down version :)

However we do have to pay $8400 for the 60" :(

but haven't you said that there will be calibration/menu differeces between the 151 and the 6020? as far as I know, the only difference between the 6090 and the 6090H is the DNLA capability and the satelite tuner? Is it because both the european models are aqual to the ELITE in terms of PQ and calibration options?US and EU models are completely different. There is no EU equivalent of the US 6020. The 6090/6090H closely resembles the 151 when it comes down to feature set....the 6090H more than the 6090.

D-Nice's owner's thread is located here:

The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1034208)

Excellent!! Thanks D.:)

Yep both EU models are equal to the US Elite. We don't get a cut down version :)

However we do have to pay $8400 for the 60" :(

yep that's a bummer!

these plasmas do support 1:1 pixel mapping through hdmi ? 5% overscan or ? Good to know when one plan build HTPC with sooncoming intelchipset G45/G47 (delayed to august tho :mad:)

Hopefully G45/G47 support bitstreaming.

Good to hear that 5090H/6090H is same as elite version :D

these plasmas do support 1:1 pixel mapping through hdmi ? 5% overscan or ? Good to know when one plan build HTPC with sooncoming intelchipset G45/G47 (delayed to august tho :mad:)

Hopefully G45/G47 support bitstreaming.

Good to hear that 5090H/6090H is same as elite version :D1:1 pixel mapping means 0 overscan. The Kuros are capable of both.

When do you assume that you (or someone else) will make an elite owners thread??

Everyone, I've asked markrubin to change the title of this thread to The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread so that this thread can evolve and live on as the 9Gs come out.

When do you assume that you (or someone else) will make an elite owners thread??
Next month.

Next month.

when and where can i buy Pio Elite 151FD? thanks for your time!

when and where can i buy Pio Elite 151FD? thanks for your time!Any forum sponsors at the end of june or later... They may (will) be hard to find.

when and where can i buy Pio Elite 151FD? thanks for your time!That depends on where you live.

That depends on where you live.

I live in San Jose, CA. Can you recommend some stores/sites for 151? I just talked to newyorkwholesaleaudiovideo.com; they have 111, but no 151, yet.

That depends on where you live.

Is it true that the West Coast dealers are getting shipments earlier than the East Coast? or is that simply a refection of the time needed for freight shipping across the U.S.?

KDD

I live in San Jose, CA. Can you recommend some stores/sites for 151? I just talked to newyorkwholesaleaudiovideo.com; they have 111, but no 151, yet.No one has the 111's yet. I'm PM you a distributor.

I live in San Jose, CA. Can you recommend some stores/sites for 151? I just talked to newyorkwholesaleaudiovideo.com; they have 111, but no 151, yet.

You have to purchase that unit from a store front in order for it to carry the warranty. Pioneer is working very hard to keep the Elite line off the internet and if you have any problems with anything Elite bought from someone who is not a store front and is a so called Elite Internet Dealer they will not service your product at all. They do require proof of purchase for warranty work. Call or E-mail Pioneer and they will direct you to an Authorized dealer.

No one has the 111's yet. I'm PM you a distributor.

D-Nice,
Could you also PM me? I live in San Diego, CA. I am looking for the 151.

I appreciate.

Is it true that the West Coast dealers are getting shipments earlier than the East Coast? or is that simply a refection of the time needed for freight shipping across the U.S.?

KDD

It is true most of the time but last year they had more shipments to the East coast for Elites

Is it true that the West Coast dealers are getting shipments earlier than the East Coast? or is that simply a refection of the time needed for freight shipping across the U.S.?

KDD

Pioneer distributes everything out of Ontario, California, so that is where all units are boxed, tested, and shipped. However units will arrive to dealers more in order of how they were purchased from Pioneer, and also how large the dealer is and how many units they purchased. The big dealers always get the units first because Pioneer likes to keep them happy.

No one has the 111's yet. I'm PM you a distributor.

Thanks, D-Nice for your pm. Regarding 111, that's what the guy said. probably it's a pre-order? Thanks once again.

You have to purchase that unit from a store front in order for it to carry the warranty. Pioneer is working very hard to keep the Elite line off the internet and if you have any problems with anything Elite bought from someone who is not a store front and is a so called Elite Internet Dealer they will not service your product at all. They do require proof of purchase for warranty work. Call or E-mail Pioneer and they will direct you to an Authorized dealer.

Thanks for your feedback!

You have to purchase that unit from a store front in order for it to carry the warranty. Pioneer is working very hard to keep the Elite line off the internet and if you have any problems with anything Elite bought from someone who is not a store front and is a so called Elite Internet Dealer they will not service your product at all. They do require proof of purchase for warranty work. Call or E-mail Pioneer and they will direct you to an Authorized dealer.Do you work for Pioneer? If so, I recommend that you keep comments like this off of public internet forums and/or get the verbage approved by Pioneer legal as it holds Pioneer liable for violating consumer purchasing laws delegated and enforced by the FTC ;)

Pioneer NA can "talk" whatever they like in regards to voiding a warranty. However, it will never hold up in any US court of law...nor will it ever be placed in any Pioneer end-user documentation.

I live in San Jose, CA. Can you recommend some stores/sites for 151? I just talked to newyorkwholesaleaudiovideo.com; they have 111, but no 151, yet.Talk to AVS sponsers that have adv. at the top and bottom of each page.

There is a Magnolia Audio - Video store near Macy's on Winchester if you want to check out a B&M. They are nothing like the Magnolia Home Theater departments in BB stores.

Edit: ... and read D-Nice's post just above this one.

Shadow detail seemed lacking, even in a darkened room.


There has been some talk about this issue. If you find once you have it settled in and your able to get more shadow detail, please let us know.

I wonder if the brightness was set a little too high on your other set? Or that the brightness needs to come up a little on your new G9 set?

D-nice

Congrats on passing the 7500 post mark!

Let me repeat how grateful all of the forum members are for your contributions.

THANKS!

KDD

Does anyone know, will the 20 series display the upgraded colors when paired with the new Pio BD players? Or are these just Elite features? Thanks


Not sure, however I do know that last years models were able to play higher bit rate video. So it seems likely that the 20 series will too.

D-nice

Congrats on passing the 7500 post mark!

Let me repeat how grateful all of the forum members are for your contributions.

THANKS!

KDDI did??? I stopped looking at the ticker. Thanks for the kind words.

You have to purchase that unit from a store front in order for it to carry the warranty. Pioneer is working very hard to keep the Elite line off the internet and if you have any problems with anything Elite bought from someone who is not a store front and is a so called Elite Internet Dealer they will not service your product at all. They do require proof of purchase for warranty work. Call or E-mail Pioneer and they will direct you to an Authorized dealer.

Do you work for Pioneer? If so, I recommend that you keep comments like this off of public internet forums and/or get the verbage approved by Pioneer legal as it holds Pioneer liable for violating consumer purchasing laws delegated and enforced by the FTC ;)

Pioneer NA can "talk" whatever they like in regards to voiding a warranty. However, it will never hold up in any US court of law...nor will it ever be placed in any Pioneer end-user documentation.

D-nice,

I'm confused about this. I've heard several very reputable folks (including you, of course) make the statement that Pioneer's policy violates US consumer purchasing laws, yet the Pioneer web site clearly states this policy.:confused: If it's illegal, why haven't Pioneer's lawyers forced them to change the official web site?

KDD

Talk to AVS sponsers that have adv. at the top and bottom of each page.

There is a Magnolia Audio - Video store near Macy's on Winchester if you want to check out a B&M. They are nothing like the Magnolia Home Theater departments in BB stores.

Edit: ... and read D-Nice's post just above this one.

Magnolia on Winchester will have 151 by July-end :(. They just got 50/6020. I'm trying to see if I could find 151 sooner.

Thx for all the feedback guy's,,

I could not help myself.

Pulled the trigger today on a 6020 from value electronics...

Should have it in a few days hopefully!! can't wait!!

I am replacing my Panasonic 58 700u with the 6020......

yet the Pioneer web site clearly states this policy.:confused:

KDDWhere does it explicitly detail the Elite's warranty?

D-nice,

I'm confused about this. I've heard several very reputable folks (including you, of course) make the statement that Pioneer's policy violates US consumer purchasing laws, yet the Pioneer web site clearly states this policy.:confused: If it's illegal, why haven't Pioneer's lawyers forced them to change the official web site?

KDD

Where does it explicitly detail the Elite's warranty?

They specifically address internet sales and warranty here:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/FindStore/Unauthorized+Internet+Dealers

KDD

Magnolia on Winchester will have 151 by July-end :(. They just got 50/6020. I'm trying to see if I could find 151 sooner.

That sounds about right so it will be hard to get one earlier ;)

They specifically address internet sales and warranty here:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/FindStore/Unauthorized+Internet+Dealers

KDDWhile the terms may have changed for the 9G series, the Limited Warranty for my Pioneer Elite PRO-150FD states:

If this product was purchased from an unauthorized distributor, there are no warranties, express or implied, including the implied warranty of merchantability and the implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose and this product is sold strictly "as is" and "with all faults."

Incorrect.

D-Nice,
Could you also PM me? I live in San Diego, CA. I am looking for the 151.

I appreciate.

D-Nice,

Can you also give me a PM? I'm in Los Angeles, CA. Also looking for 151. Thanks!

D-nice,

I'm confused about this. I've heard several very reputable folks (including you, of course) make the statement that Pioneer's policy violates US consumer purchasing laws, yet the Pioneer web site clearly states this policy.:confused: If it's illegal, why haven't Pioneer's lawyers forced them to change the official web site?

KDD

Two thoughts:

1) It is not illegal. I doubt that Magnuson-Moss prevents manufacturers from limiting the scope of applicability of their warranties, especially since it differentiates between limited and full warranties and only requires that a manufacturer offering a limited warranty clearly and conspicuously state the party or parties to whom a warranty is extended - in this case, limited to those who purchase from authorized dealers. (This does not mean that individual states do not provide more protection to consumers through state law or that no other law operates to prohibit Pioneer's restrictions.)

or

2) Even if the warranty provision does violate some consumer protection law (or can at least be reasonably interpreted to violate some consumer protection law), no one has actually sued Pioneer to establish that the warranty term is invalid and to enjoin them from enforcing it.

Of course, your best bet is to consult an attorney who specializes in consumer protection law, instead of asking random people on the forum whose expertise might lie elsewhere. Keep in mind that it's Pioneer's lawyers who drafted the language in the first place and they do not believe that the warranty term violates the law.

- Better default-gammacurves, a little bit to bright near black though (on the other hand, details in this area will be very visible). The EU 6090 models lacks 9 point gamma EQ in the user menu and the reviewer didn't enter the ISF-menus which should make the gamma-curve basically perfect.

Interesting that the gammacurves are a little too bright near black, though helps with details .

Then he mentions that via ISF the gamma curve is basically perfect. That may be so, but what about the very very dark details.

Since there has been some debate as how much detail should be in the blacks and/or what is the correct amount of details that "should" be in the black, it will be interesting to see if having the gamma curve "perfect" takes away from black (shadow) detail.

This conversation comes up for Elite because of the 250 mile radios situation that some mention. So what if you were in CA on vacation (for example) and decided to walk in to a store and picked up a 151FD from a local dealer and then had it shipped to your home in TX how would the warranty be void? Not possible. I posted Elite warranty documents before if anyone wants them again let me know :)

They specifically address internet sales and warranty here:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/FindStore/Unauthorized+Internet+Dealers

KDDHere is an item you need to pay close attention to:

"Pioneer is not able to identify all persons and companies who claim to be authorized Pioneer dealers"

It is this reason alone that Pioneer NA will never be able to enforce voiding a warranty. It is up to the manufacturer to enforce what dealers and distributors have access to it's products. That burden is of no consequence to the consumer.

If I were to literally go by the "Authorized" dealer list for plasma displays, Pioneer itself isn't authorized to sell the 8G and 9G Kuros. BB and Invision Displays aren't authorized to sell the 9Gs...per the list :) But we all know better.....right????