Elite because of the 250 mile radios situation

I guess there is no way I can get an Elite without paying CA sales tax because I live in San Diego. :(
That's why I would love to order it from the internet.

I guess there is no way I can get an Elite without paying CA sales tax because I live in San Diego. :(
That's why I would love to order it from the internet.

lol that was a hypothetical example, use AZ as the state :)

Keep in mind that it's Pioneer's lawyers who drafted the language in the first place and they do not believe that the warranty term violates the law.It's called scare tactics. I guarantee you that if a class action lawsuit were to come about regarding their warranty voiding practices, that "unauthorized dealer" note would be pulled off the website. It is the same reason it isn't thoroughly detailed in any end-user warranty documentation.

Every wonder how and why the plasma displays now list the exact diagonal screen width on the website and all end-user documentation ;)

Interesting that the gammacurves are a little too bright near black, though helps with details .

Then he mentions that via ISF the gamma curve is basically perfect. That may be so, but what about the very very dark details.

Since there has been some debate as how much detail should be in the blacks and/or what is the correct amount of details that "should" be in the black, it will be interesting to see if having the gamma curve "perfect" takes away from black (shadow) detail.

Thanks for bringing this up--I just wanted to get some opinions on the whole "shadow details" subject.

Earlier in the thread, there was debate about other TVs (I think Sony SXRD types) having better shadow detail. I wonder if we consumers sometimes like to see more detail in the movie than would ordinarily be possible given the lighting in the scene, and actually prefer that "extra detail" but sacrifice accuracy. Just because you can see something with low-light goggles (or its gamma setting equivalent for a particular grey scale range) doesn't mean that the director or producer meant for those details to be seen.

Does anyone else think that our obsession about shadow detail is excessive sometimes?

KDD

I guess there is no way I can get an Elite without paying CA sales tax because I live in San Diego. :(
That's why I would love to order it from the internet.

Ah, what blatant disrespect for California law... ;) California requires its residents to pay a use tax on all out-of-state purchases for which an equivalent sales tax was not paid. Perhaps you noticed the space for it on your 540? Sometimes, it seems that I'm the only sucker who pays it.

Since there has been some debate as how much detail should be in the blacks and/or what is the correct amount of details that "should" be in the black, it will be interesting to see if having the gamma curve "perfect" takes away from black (shadow) detail.You're not suppose to see everything in the shadows. If a display can hit a perfect gamma, you are seeing what the director intended you to see.

Ah, what blatant disrespect for California law... ;) California requires its residents to pay a use tax on all items for which an equivalent sales tax was not paid on all out-of-state purchases. Perhaps you noticed the space for it on your 540? Sometimes, it seems, that I'm the only sucker who pays it.

More states are trying to enforce it as well. I guess the big stores have been complaining and the Gov is finally listening (or they want it too) :)

lol that was a hypothetical example, use AZ as the state :)

:)
unfortunately AZ is farther than 250 miles. :(

Can I buy it in Tijuana, Mexico? :D

Yuma is only 175 Miles from Downtown SD




:)
unfortunately AZ is farther than 250 miles. :(

Can I buy it in Tijuana, Mexico? :D

It's called scare tactics. I guarantee you that if a class action lawsuit were to come about regarding their warranty voiding practices, that "unauthorized dealer" note would be pulled off the website. It is the same reason it isn't thoroughly detailed in any end-user warranty documentation.


Plus, I wonder how often, if ever, Pioneer elects to refuse warranty service based on the "unauthorized dealer" clause. There's being legally in the right, and then there's looking like a greedy, evil bastard screwing over the poor working man who shelled out his hard earned 1/6 of the average American's yearly income just because he purchased the set from an unauthorized dealer...

:)
unfortunately AZ is farther than 250 miles. :(

Can I buy it in Tijuana, Mexico? :D

Nope. Has to be in the U.S.

Yuma is only 175 Miles from Downtown SD

I am not sure if I can find a authorized dealer in Yuma. Well maybe in Phoenix, but then the 250 miles will not help. :(

already posted this about the link post 3153 just a few above yours and not one person said thanks for it posting it dont know why i bothered.


What? I read the whole thing and really enjoyed it. If I posted "thanks" to every post, that's all you would see around here....

Don't feel bad

Here is an item you need to pay close attention to:

"Pioneer is not able to identify all persons and companies who claim to be authorized Pioneer dealers"

It is this reason alone that Pioneer NA will never be able to enforce voiding a warranty. It is up to the manufacturer to enforce what dealers and distributors have access to it's products. That burden is of no consequence to the consumer.

If I were to literally go by the "Authorized" dealer list for plasma displays, Pioneer itself isn't authorized to sell the 8G and 9G Kuros. BB and Invision Displays aren't authorized to sell the 9Gs...per the list :) But we all know better.....right????

So if I buy from a vendor who "claims" to be an authorized pioneer dealer, then Pioneer must honor the warranty since "Pioneer is not able to identify all persons and companies who claim to be authorized Pioneer dealers"???
Bottom line: if I buy a brand new pioneer plasma in a sealed box from someone who is not on the Authorized internet dealers list that is on Pioneers website, Am I going to be denied a warranty claim by pioneer?
And if they do deny it are they breaking the law?
just wanting to get things totally clear.

I am not sure if I can find a authorized dealer in Yuma. Well maybe in Phoenix, but then the 250 miles will not help. :(

I still think you are missing the point look at the Pioneer warranty document below and tell me if you find anything about the 250 mile coverage. Now what it states in those dealers contracts thats up to the Elite dealers.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/29529538HEelite.pdf

Sine none of the first 9G Kuro owners (lucky SOBs :)) wants to take the honor of creating an official owners thread, would you like me to create it?

I think the forum agreed to have "The Official 9G non-Elite Owners Thread" and "The Official 9G Elite Owners Thread".

Yes, please do.

I still think you are missing the point look at the Pioneer warranty document below and tell me if you find anything about the 250 mile coverage. Now what it states in those dealers contracts thats up to the Elite dealers.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/29529538HEelite.pdf

Instead of playing hide the ball, I point you to this language from Roman's document:

"THIS LIMITED WARRANTY APPLIES TO THE ORIGINAL OR ANY SUBSEQUENT OWNER OF THIS PIONEER PRODUCT DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD PROVIDED THE PRODUCT WAS PURCHASED FROM AN AUTHORIZED PIONEER DISTRIBUTOR/DEALER IN THE U.S.A."

So if I buy from a vendor who "claims" to be an authorized pioneer dealer, then Pioneer must honor the warranty since "Pioneer is not able to identify all persons and companies who claim to be authorized Pioneer dealers"???
Bottom line: if I buy a brand new pioneer plasma in a sealed box from someone who is not on the Authorized internet dealers list that is on Pioneers website, Am I going to be denied a warranty claim by pioneer?
And if they do deny it are they breaking the law?
just wanting to get things totally clear.

The bottom line is you have to trust the dealers, thats it.

The bottom line is you have to trust the dealers, thats it.

well said

I know nothing about corporate law, but I hate for people to have the wrong info....

The Federal Trades Comission has your back:

WWW.FTC.GOV

Link to US Warranty Laws <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.shtm)

I know I have mentioned this before about the FTC and here is something on a similiar note from another AVS Member <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9503214&&#post9503214)

So if I buy from a vendor who "claims" to be an authorized pioneer dealer, then Pioneer must honor the warranty since "Pioneer is not able to identify all persons and companies who claim to be authorized Pioneer dealers"???Yep.

Bottom line: if I buy a brand new pioneer plasma in a sealed box from someone who is not on the Authorized internet dealers list that is on Pioneers website, Am I going to be denied a warranty claim by pioneer? At the end of the day, nope.

And if they do deny it are they breaking the law?
just wanting to get things totally clear.Yes

Do you work for Pioneer? If so, I recommend that you keep comments like this off of public internet forums and/or get the verbage approved by Pioneer legal as it holds Pioneer liable for violating consumer purchasing laws delegated and enforced by the FTC ;)

Pioneer NA can "talk" whatever they like in regards to voiding a warranty. However, it will never hold up in any US court of law...nor will it ever be placed in any Pioneer end-user documentation.


I suggest you call 310-952-2000 and ask for one of Pioneers attorneys for clarifiaction. Since D-nice (you) seems to know it all, I suggest he do this and he will get the real answers. The truth will HURT!

HAVE A NICE DAY

I have said it once well maybe like 10 times now...... ;)

The Federal Trades Comission has your back:

WWW.FTC.GOV

Link to US Warranty Laws <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.shtm)

I know I have mentioned this before about the FTC and here is something on a similiar note from another AVS Member <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9503214&&#post9503214)

Since this seems to be a topic for popular discussion. Limited warranty means just that. The manufacture can limit whatever they want. Call the FTC for clarification. Again, if you are not an attorney, then shame on you. Why don't you become an authorized Pioneer dealer, or have you been turned down by pioneer?

I suggest you call 310-952-2000 and ask for one of Pioneers attorneys for clarifiaction. Since D-nice (you) seems to know it all, I suggest he do this and he will get the real answers. The truth will HURT!

HAVE A NICE DAY

A Pioneer attorney does not represent you, the consumer. The question of whether or not the Pioneer official line reflects the current status of warranty law can only be decided by the courts. All you have until then are arguments.

Why would anyone want to fight Pioneer through the FTC when you can buy from an authorized dealer and have no concerns "IF" your warranty will be honored.

I suggest you call 310-952-2000 and ask for one of Pioneers attorneys for clarifiaction. Since D-nice (you) seems to know it all, I suggest he do this and he will get the real answers. The truth will HURT!

HAVE A NICE DAYI don't need to contact Pioneer's legal department because I know consumer laws....if that classifies me as "knowing it all" then so be it.

I have been informed that YOU work for an Authorized Pioneer dealer....so YOU and your employer have to abide by Pioneer rules and regulations spelled out...in detail....per your dealer contract. Those same rules and regulations that YOU and your employer HAVE to abide by in order to be an authorized Pioneer dealer does not apply to the consumer per FTC guidelines.

I was just putting the information out there for this great forum to take in, I do not claim to be a attorney. Don't you want everyone to have all the information at had. (Jason from Invision ===Pioneerdude ?)

Wow this has been a totally useless string of back and forths. Thanks to all involved. :rolleyes:

(Jason from Invision ===Pioneerdude ?)
Ding ding ding!!!!

Only thing that worries me is if I was to buy from an unauthorized dealer (which I probably won't do), Is pioneer going to give me a hard time with the claim and am I going to have to spend money on legal fees just to get them to honor the warranty?

This is a little disturbing.... if you really are from Invision, I don't think it's appropriate to make a slap at another Forum Sponsor like Cleveland Plasma. That just reflects poorly on Invision.

Why don't you become an authorized Pioneer dealer, or have you been turned down by pioneer?

I was just putting the information out there for this great forum to take in, I do not claim to be a attorney. Don't you want everyone to have all the information at had. (Jason from Invision ===Pioneerdude ?)

Wow this has been a totally useless string of back and forths. Thanks to all involved. :rolleyes:

actually its been pretty informative for me. no offense

Pioneer distributes everything out of Ontario, California, so that is where all units are boxed, tested, and shipped. However units will arrive to dealers more in order of how they were purchased from Pioneer, and also how large the dealer is and how many units they purchased. The big dealers always get the units first because Pioneer likes to keep them happy.


Wow, it looks like a straight shot from there to here! I might get lucky! Ok, I know, Elites don't come till at least later July. And Showcase may not be as big as the others. But they are a Tweeter.

Fingers crossed....

actually its been pretty informative for me. no offense

None taken, but doesn't everyone already know to buy from an authorized dealer or risk the consequences? And how does this advance knowledge and discussion about Pioneer 9G PDPs?

Just a note we are an authorized Pioneer dealer and anyone who would like to view our paperwork can ask...... ;) I just thought people would like to read more about warranty laws and the FTC. I am no attorney, but it makes for good reading.

None taken, but doesn't everyone already know to buy form an authorized dealer or risk the consequences? And how does this advance knowledge and discussion about Pioneer 9G PDPs?

HD you know my reputation and this just helps people make the right decision without falling for propaganda ;)

So has anyone got thier 6020 yet and done any calibrations/reviews yet?

i want to see some pictures of the back panel

None taken, but doesn't everyone already know to buy from an authorized dealer or risk the consequences?

Because i dont like people telling me where i can and cant buy things when they themselves distribute to more people than just authorized representatives. Its more or less price fixing in the name of better product control. Its bs imo.

Because i dont like people telling me where i can and cant buy things when they themselves distribute to more people than just authorized representatives. Its more or less price fixing in the name of better product control. Its bs imo.

LG, Samsung, and Panasonic will all be happy to have your business.. :rolleyes:

None taken, but doesn't everyone already know to buy from an authorized dealer or risk the consequences? And how does this advance knowledge and discussion about Pioneer 9G PDPs?

I don't see the warranty discussion as off topic. I think this is a general discussion thread about all aspects of the 9G panels, not just its technical merits.

Then again, I might be biased. I find this warranty discussion more interesting and productive than the "PM me" or "I just ordered mine" line of posts.

I don't see the warranty discussion as off topic. I think this is a general discussion thread about all aspects of the 9G panels, not just its technical merits.

Then again, I might be biased. I find this warranty discussion more interesting and productive than the "PM me" or "I just ordered mine" line of posts.

If anyone wants to know if I just ordered mine, PM me. ;)

I don't see the warranty discussion as off topic. I think this is a general discussion thread about all aspects of the 9G panels, not just its technical merits. It's companion discussion: "Is my warranty voided if I, or my professional calibrator go into the service menu?" :eek:

Samsung has such a condition, but from September 2002 through 2007 I didn't find one case of denied warranty work here at AVS in the Samsung DLP RPTV threads. Trust me, I read every post. ;)

I didn't find any such posts in the Sony, Panasonic, or Mitsubishi RPTV threads either.

Just for the record, Invision is an authorized dealer and has been in the plasma business since the beginning of plasma sales on the internet. We have been an authorized Pioneer dealer since Pioneer opened up the internet. We are one of 15 dealers listed at the top of the forum page and we been a strong supporter of the forum for 3 years. We are extremely excited that we now are preparing for shipment of both 6020's and 5020's and the manufacturers warranty does apply. I see no harm in being proud of offering this to our customers. I wish all well and if anyone has any questions feel free to pm.

If anyone wants to know if I just ordered mine, PM me. ;)

No, I think YOU need to PM me. Don't make ME work for it. :D

Apologies to the thread police. I promise to stop now.

Ah, what blatant disrespect for California law... ;) California requires its residents to pay a use tax on all out-of-state purchases for which an equivalent sales tax was not paid. Perhaps you noticed the space for it on your 540? Sometimes, it seems that I'm the only sucker who pays it.

Screw the space on the 540... They already tax us up the kazoo... :mad::mad::mad:

Ding ding ding!!!!

If true I find it surprising. D-Nice has probably increased sales for Invision by offering his own time improving pioneer products, free of charge. I don't think I will buy from Invision.

"The truth will hurt, Have a nice day"

Grow up!

I think most of us around here aren't willing to chance it on buying from non-authorized dealers. If one of our plasmas were to break down and need repair work, the last thing we want is to get into is a legal battle with Pioneer.

It is a stressful thing when a purchase of this magnitude has problems and warranties are in place to relieve some of that stress. It puts us right back into the stressful situation if we think that we may have broken some rules (possibly unlawful) and thus will not be covered.

We'd also have a hard time rationalizing to Pioneer that people on the AVS forum told us that our warranty would be honored and our only recourse would be legal action (or threatening legal action) if it was denied. That is certainly not a situation I (and I'm guessing many others) want to get into.

If true I find it surprising. D-Nice has probably increased sales for Invision by offering his own time improving pioneer products, free of charge. I don't think I will buy from Invision.

"The truth will hurt, Have a nice day"

Grow up!


+1

Here is an item you need to pay close attention to:

"Pioneer is not able to identify all persons and companies who claim to be authorized Pioneer dealers"

It is this reason alone that Pioneer NA will never be able to enforce voiding a warranty. It is up to the manufacturer to enforce what dealers and distributors have access to it's products. That burden is of no consequence to the consumer.

If I were to literally go by the "Authorized" dealer list for plasma displays, Pioneer itself isn't authorized to sell the 8G and 9G Kuros. BB and Invision Displays aren't authorized to sell the 9Gs...per the list :) But we all know better.....right????

It would be great to know where you get your information? It would appear that you are misinformed. I will be most happy to send anyone our authorization agreement from Pioneer or you can go to www.pioneerelectronics.com and view the dealers and what their authorization entails. Invision Technologies is authorized to sell all Pioneer products online, except for the Elites, which are limited by Pioneer to a 250 mile radius.

Just for the record, Invision is an authorized dealer and has been in the plasma business since the beginning of plasma sales on the internet. We have been an authorized Pioneer dealer since Pioneer opened up the internet. We are one of 15 dealers listed at the top of the forum page and we been a strong supporter of the forum for 3 years. We are extremely excited that we now are preparing for shipment of both 6020's and 5020's and the manufacturers warranty does apply. I see no harm in being proud of offering this to our customers. I wish all well and if anyone has any questions feel free to pm.

So when do you expect to start shipping the 50/6020's (approximately)? I pre-ordered mine with Invision within the first few hours you opened it up for pre-orders.

So when do you expect to start shipping the 50/6020's (approximately)? I pre-ordered mine with Invision within the first few hours you opened it up for pre-orders.

The 6020's are shipping now! The 5020's should be shipping within a week from what I hear!

Chris

Just because someone(PioneerDude) gets passionate about his interpretation of a warranty contract doesnt mean the company he/she works for should be avoided, Invision been giving good service and insightful info for years here on AVS even when Roman was the there dedicated propaganda minister....ugh...well, I mean Spokesman

Just because someone(PioneerDude) gets passionate about his interpretation of a warranty contract doesnt mean the company he/she works for should be avoided, Invision been giving good service and insightful info for years here on AVS even when Roman was the there dedicated propaganda minister....ugh...well, I mean Spokesman

Well stated.

I see Invision posting the way it technically should be ... and D-nice posting the way it is.

Invision is saying ... 55MPH is the Speed Limit

D-nice is saying ... yeah, but here is the reality

Both are right ... if you are someone who will lose sleep over the Warranty, then you should drive 55

P.S. the more Sponsors the better ... so can we bury the hatchet on this topic

actually, some of the laws in the authorized sale arena has changed: http://www.perkinscoie.com/news/pubs_detail.aspx?publication=8f21d869-a803-4210-a62d-b050cff56598
. In June of 2007, the US Supreme Court overturned a century-old precedent that had outlawed resale restrictions. (I am an economist, not a lawyer. This used to be an antitrust clause, which is why I took notice.)

My guess is that this supreme court ruling now allows retailers to restrict who can sell their products now. So, D-Nice and others probably used to be right that manufacturers could not discriminate against resale. However, it is no longer the case.

Wow---I may actually have contributed a post that has a little bit of substance.

D-Nice: is there a way to PM you? Primarily, I would love to hear your recommendation of which dealer I should buy from, based on who has helped *you* personally.

/iaw

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln. How did you enjoy the Play ?

actually, some of the laws in the authorized sale arena has changed: http://www.perkinscoie.com/news/pubs_detail.aspx?publication=8f21d869-a803-4210-a62d-b050cff56598
. In June of 2007, the US Supreme Court overturned a century-old precedent that had outlawed resale restrictions. (I am an economist, not a lawyer. This used to be an antitrust clause, which is why I took notice.)

My guess is that this supreme court ruling now allows retailers to restrict who can sell their products now. So, D-Nice and others probably used to be right that manufacturers could not discriminate against resale. However, it is no longer the case.

Wow---I may actually have contributed a post that has a little bit of substance.

D-Nice: is there a way to PM you? Primarily, I would love to hear your recommendation of which dealer I should buy from, based on who has helped *you* personally.

/iaw

Would be interesting to get a lawyers take on this as people on this board have been advised that they could buy from anywhere without risk.

I am an atty and I don't know the answer to the consumer warranty issue debated above. I can say that regarding insurance it is not as simple as I bought a Hartford policy via my broker, who unbeknownst to me, was not an authorized Hartford agent (say for that class of insurance) or placed the coverage even though I didn't qualify for that program, thus I am out of luck enforcing the policy if the insurer disavows it after I make a loss claim. Whether that analogy fits the present situation I don't know, but I can say that it wouldn't surprise me if D-Nice is correct in his forecast of what would happen.

As to the Leegin case cited above by ivo welch, I would prefer to read the actual opnion. However, the linked summary suggests the case is dealing with a price-fixing issue between seller and retailer or distributor rather than a consumer warranty.

Is there anyone who recenlty bougtht a Pinoneer (especially Elite) from a non-authrized dealer and had a service request rejected? I am curious.

Michaelmorio

there is something wrong with pioneer rules.. otherwise I wouldn't be able to order 5010 online from costco.com with full manufacturer warranty . i do not see costco.com as authorized internet dealer.
thought i canceled that order and ordered 6020 from Robert.

Hello forum members! Brand new memeber Carl here. I've been trying to catch up with this thread but after several days I'm only up to post #1600. Wow, you guys and gals sure know your stuff.

I hope somebody can answer what, I think, is an easy one.

At the CES demo there was the ultra thin 10-lumen panel. But there was also the ECC panel in the dark room that showed no image until the flower (or fireworks) came on. I think these were demonstrating two different technologies?

Anyway, what I can't seem to determine is if the panel in the dark room IS the 9G, or not. If that demonstration was not the 9G then how close is the current 9G to the demo? What's missing? I like the idea of the 10-lumen saving power, etc. and I realize that technology is not in the 9G.

Thanks in advance!

Welcome Carl,

The information you want is scattered through this forum as well as its predecessors. You can learn a tremendous amount (as well as observe what is sometimes comical interactions by all of us fellow members ;-) by continuing to read through.

To answer your question directly, the 9G is not the ECC. It is however a significant step in that direction, and many of us (myself included) have decided to commit to purchasing now rather than wait at least another year (probably at least 18 months) for the ECC to arrive.

Best of luck as you commune with us HD addicts.

KDD

Ah, what blatant disrespect for California law... ;) California requires its residents to pay a use tax on all out-of-state purchases for which an equivalent sales tax was not paid. Perhaps you noticed the space for it on your 540? Sometimes, it seems that I'm the only sucker who pays it.

Michigan collects use tax for phone and internet sales where the collected sales tax (if any) is less than Michigan's 6%. There is a check box and line on the 1040 form, which the filer must clearly mark whether they own use tax. In other words, I will be paying 6% tax to MI on my 5020 purchase from Value Electronics, even though Robert did not collect NY sales tax.

All this legal stuff is giving me a headache...

And since I'm not a lawyer, I certainly can't comment in any more meaningful way. I'm actually sorry that I stirred this up more.

On another topic, one I'm better equipped to handle (since I AM a physician:cool:), I want to begin describing the following medical syndromes:

"9G Kuro anticipation disorder"

and

"Injuries directly attributable to 9G KUROs"

which of course are both part of the

"9G KURO Obsession syndrome"

So I'd like to hear about your symptoms, mental and physical, associated with thinking about these awesome machines!

(Hopefully we can have some fun with this, rather than the pent-up anger that seems to be expressing itself. Of course, this anger may all be attributable to "9G KURO Legal Anxiety and Paranoia Disease" :p)

KDD

KDD - I may need your services when I tell my wife don't touch the 151 for the next six days while the break-in disc runs.lol

While the terms may have changed for the 9G series, the Limited Warranty for my Pioneer Elite PRO-150FD states:

If this product was purchased from an unauthorized distributor, there are no warranties, express or implied, including the implied warranty of merchantability and the implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose and this product is sold strictly "as is" and "with all faults."
...I doubt that Magnuson-Moss prevents manufacturers from limiting the scope of applicability of their warranties, especially since it differentiates between limited and full warranties and only requires that a manufacturer offering a limited warranty clearly and conspicuously state the party or parties to whom a warranty is extended - in this case, limited to those who purchase from authorized dealers.

Perhaps distributors and dealers are not necessarily one and the same?

It would be great to know where you get your information? It would appear that you are misinformed. I will be most happy to send anyone our authorization agreement from Pioneer or you can go to www.pioneerelectronics.com and view the dealers and what their authorization entails. Invision Technologies is authorized to sell all Pioneer products online, except for the Elites, which are limited by Pioneer to a 250 mile radius.

Hello forum members! Brand new memeber Carl here. I've been trying to catch up with this thread but after several days I'm only up to post #1600. Wow, you guys and gals sure know your stuff.

I hope somebody can answer what, I think, is an easy one.

At the CES demo there was the ultra thin 10-lumen panel. But there was also the ECC panel in the dark room that showed no image until the flower (or fireworks) came on. I think these were demonstrating two different technologies?

Anyway, what I can't seem to determine is if the panel in the dark room IS the 9G, or not. If that demonstration was not the 9G then how close is the current 9G to the demo? What's missing? I like the idea of the 10-lumen saving power, etc. and I realize that technology is not in the 9G.

Thanks in advance!


The unit you saw in the dark room was a form of the 9G panel, it was not the final unit but it was like a 9G engineering model. The new thin panel is something Pioneer is still working on perfecting it still has some kinks that are not all worked out at this point, but it is a really great idea and hopfully it will be the thing of the future.

The unit you saw in the dark room was a form of the 9G panel, it was not the final unit but it was like a 9G engineering model. The new thin panel is something Pioneer is still working on perfecting it still has some kinks that are not all worked out at this point, but it is a really great idea and hopfully it will be the thing of the future.The panel in the room was the ECC. I would not call the 9g ECC (e.g. 0 idling luminance. The 9gs=0.001-0.0008 FL), and I'm sure almost everyone else would agree with me.

Chad: I like your (the) dog.

Is there anyone who recenlty bougtht a Pinoneer (especially Elite) from a non-authrized dealer and had a service request rejected? I am curious.

Michaelmorio

good question

there is something wrong with pioneer rules.. otherwise I wouldn't be able to order 5010 online from costco.com with full manufacturer warranty . i do not see costco.com as authorized internet dealer. thought i canceled that order and ordered 6020 from Robert.
Are you ready for a new rule? I am serious here though, When a unit is being closed out by Pioneer, as the PDP-5010FD and PDP-6010FD, all restrictions are removed and anyone can sell the product.

Well stated.

I see Invision posting the way it technically should be ... and D-nice posting the way it is.

Invision is saying ... 55MPH is the Speed Limit

D-nice is saying ... yeah, but here is the reality

Both are right ... if you are someone who will lose sleep over the Warranty, then you should drive 55

P.S. the more Sponsors the better ... so can we bury the hatchet on this topic
I live in NY and pre-ordered a 151 from Robert because, quite frankly, I don't need the headaches of warranty disputes. I do have to pay sales tax but that gets me peace of mind knowing that: 1. If I do have a warranty issue, I won't have to jump through hoops to have it taken care of, and 2. I am supporting my local small business owner who loves what he does for a living which is obvious through his great customer service. :)
All this legal stuff is giving me a headache...

And since I'm not a lawyer, I certainly can't comment in any more meaningful way. I'm actually sorry that I stirred this up more.

On another topic, one I'm better equipped to handle (since I AM a physician:cool:), I want to begin describing the following medical syndromes:

"9G Kuro anticipation disorder"

and

"Injuries directly attributable to 9G KUROs"

which of course are both part of the

"9G KURO Obsession syndrome"

So I'd like to hear about your symptoms, mental and physical, associated with thinking about these awesome machines!

(Hopefully we can have some fun with this, rather than the pent-up anger that seems to be expressing itself. Of course, this anger may all be attributable to "9G KURO Legal Anxiety and Paranoia Disease" :p)

KDD

That's it..................XANAX FOR EVERYONE!!! You write the scripts Doc and I'll fill 'em !!!

It would be great to know where you get your information? It would appear that you are misinformed. I will be most happy to send anyone our authorization agreement from Pioneer or you can go to www.pioneerelectronics.com and view the dealers and what their authorization entails. Invision Technologies is authorized to sell all Pioneer products online, except for the Elites, which are limited by Pioneer to a 250 mile radius.I was going by the authorized dealers list on Pioneer's website. It specifically says that Invision Displays is only authorized to sell the 8G models. Now of course we know that that really isn't the case.

What I was trying to point out is Pioneer's authorized internet dealer list needs to be updated.

Look for yourself to see how old the model list is:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/FindStore/Buy+Pioneer+Products+on+the+Internet

Just because someone(PioneerDude) gets passionate about his interpretation of a warranty contract doesnt mean the company he/she works for should be avoided, Invision been giving good service and insightful info for years here on AVS even when Roman was the there dedicated propaganda minister....ugh...well, I mean Spokesman
I agree.

actually, some of the laws in the authorized sale arena has changed: http://www.perkinscoie.com/news/pubs_detail.aspx?publication=8f21d869-a803-4210-a62d-b050cff56598
. In June of 2007, the US Supreme Court overturned a century-old precedent that had outlawed resale restrictions. (I am an economist, not a lawyer. This used to be an antitrust clause, which is why I took notice.)

My guess is that this supreme court ruling now allows retailers to restrict who can sell their products now. So, D-Nice and others probably used to be right that manufacturers could not discriminate against resale. However, it is no longer the case.

Wow---I may actually have contributed a post that has a little bit of substance.

D-Nice: is there a way to PM you? Primarily, I would love to hear your recommendation of which dealer I should buy from, based on who has helped *you* personally.

/iawNo need for PMs regarding this. For non-Elites I personally recommend Robert @ Value Electronics, Roman @ Buybestplasma, and Chis @ Clevelandplasma.

BTW, I have a 6020 enroute and will giving it a workout next week.

A BIG thank you goes out to Robert for sending me this evaluation unit :)

BTW, I have a 6020 enroute and will giving it a workout next week.



My decision to purchase a 6020 or upgrade to an Elite 151FD is hinging on your review, D-Nice, so no pressure or anything. :D

Perhaps distributors and dealers are not necessarily one and the same?

My interpretation of Pioneer's own language, irrespective of consumer warranty laws, is that you're covered as long as there is an authorized Pioneer distributor in the chain of possession. You might need the "unauthorized" dealer's help tracing the origin of the set to an authorized distributor (assuming Pioneer demands that), but it'd be hard for them to argue that the end consumer wasn't a "subsequent owner."

By the way, I doubt that anyone is suggesting to people on the forum that they make multi-thousand dollar purchasing decisions willy nilly based on their personal opinions of whether or not Pioneer will honor the warranty. By all means, everyone should do their own research and do what they're comfortable with in spending their hard earned income. As Roman stated earlier, you have to trust your dealer to back the product they're selling.

I apologize in advance if I missed this.
Have any of the dealers who participate here seen a 9G Elite and a 9G non-Elite demo side by side?

First, there needs to be some clarification of language here:

1. Authorized verus non-authorized dealers.

2. ELITE vs NON-ELITE dealers.

I'm not sure what the difference is? There appears to be MANY fine authorized forum sponsors including Invision, Clarity, Value Electronics, etc, etc, etc.

BUT Elites are only supposed to be sold within a 250 mile radius.

If ANYONE thinks that Pioneer is going to deny warranty for Elites purchased from so-called non authorized dealers, they are crazy.

First of all, let's apply some common sense here. How many Elites do you think are going to be sold in the first place at 6500 dollars a pop with sales tax? Of those Elites, how many are going to break down necessitating repair and/or replacement?

THINK about the numbers. THINK about the odds.

Are you telling me, Pioneer is going to waste time and money chasing it's own tail making sure every stinking Elite was bought from an authorized dealer?

What about complications like someone buying while on vacation or who have multiple homes? You know, rich people who buy 6500 dollar T.V. sets tend to have that. How about one in California and a vacation spot in Arizona? You telling me that the T.V. has to be in Arizona to be serviced if it was bought there and then for whatever reason moved to California?

How about if I bought it from somebody who bought it from an authorized Elite dealer? Where does the warranty go there? If the original owner I bought it from is still involved, can't he/she mandate service?

Pioneer is going to waste time and money suing, getting counter-sued, getting its name DRAGGED through the mud, having the entire 2 year warranty selling point of the Elite line made a laughing stock . . .

For what? The 1/10th of 1 percent Elite T.V.s that fall into this category?

If you've got an Elite T.V. and you've got a receipt proving you didn't buy it in a back alley from Osama bin Laden, you're getting your stinking T.V. serviced and you can take that to the bank.

The consumer law of COMMON SENSE will dictate that.

Now back to reality. And reality states that the odds in general are going to be that VERY FEW of you are going to need this warranty ever.

Of course for those of you already planning on demanding a brand new Elite 151FD from Pioneer because of that 1 stuck pixel on the upper left corner of the T.V. that you can only see running full screen white on your Break-In DVD or that supersonic buzz that only Superman can hear . . . then I suggest you hasten IMMEDIATELY to your local brick and mortar AUTHORIZED Pioneer Elite dealer to pay the extra 600 dollars plus in sales tax for that piece of mind.

Dennis

They specifically address internet sales and warranty here:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/FindStore/Unauthorized+Internet+Dealers KDD

It's interesting the way this is written. The title says "Unauthorized Internet Dealers" and they then state "Pioneer does NOT offer a manufacturer's limited warranty for products purchased from anyone who is not an authorized dealer" ... and .... "Pioneer does NOT authorize any of its dealers to sell new products on eBay." BUT nowhere do they actually say they do not offer a warranty for products purchased over the internet.

So, in spite of Pio's tricky legalese, it reads like you could buy from an "authorized" dealer on the internet and still get a valid warranty ... at least to me it does. But what the hell do I know? I'm only speculating here.

Soooo, let's hear it from the horses' mouths (i.e., our forum sponsors): Does your dealer contract with Pio allow you to sell Pio plasmas ... with a valid warranty ... over the internet? Also, if the customer is within the 250 mile radius, can you sell the Pio Elites over the internet?

If you've got an Elite T.V. and you've got a receipt proving you didn't buy it in a back alley from Osama bin Laden, you're getting your stinking T.V. serviced and you can take that to the bank.

The consumer law of COMMON SENSE will dictate that.

Dennis

Exactly.:cool:

Have the 9G user manuals been made available anywhere? I don't remember seeing anything here on that. I would like to be ready when my 151 arrives in July.

Yes the Onmi mount will work great with your new PDP-5020FD.

-Robert

Thanks for the info.

By the way, as I mentioned I am selling my Panny 700U but I am having a tough time coming up with a fair price. Any info would be greatly appreciated in coming up with such a price. Sorry for going way off topic but I have no idea where to ask this question.

All this legal stuff is giving me a headache...

And since I'm not a lawyer, I certainly can't comment in any more meaningful way. I'm actually sorry that I stirred this up more.

On another topic, one I'm better equipped to handle (since I AM a physician:cool:), I want to begin describing the following medical syndromes:

"9G Kuro anticipation disorder"

and

"Injuries directly attributable to 9G KUROs"

which of course are both part of the

"9G KURO Obsession syndrome"

So I'd like to hear about your symptoms, mental and physical, associated with thinking about these awesome machines!

(Hopefully we can have some fun with this, rather than the pent-up anger that seems to be expressing itself. Of course, this anger may all be attributable to "9G KURO Legal Anxiety and Paranoia Disease" :p)

KDD

Hey Doc, I've got this pain in my back when I try to pick up my 150 by myself. Is that a form of Kuro Lumbar disorder? ;)

I am wondering about how much difference there will actually be in the picture quality between the 6020 and the 151? Does anyone have an idea? I realize that the 151 has not been released yet, but does anyone have an educated guess based on last years models? I know that there are more "tweaking options" on the Elites but can an ISF calibrator dial in a picture close to the Elites on the 6020? This will be my first Pioneer Plasma purchase and I want to get it right. I am very anxious to get one of these in my home asap. Thanks for any light you guys can shed on this it will be a real help for me.
Ralph

coursey,

Welcome to AVS.

D-Nice is getting a 6020 next week and should be able to tell us a lot about the set. I don't know if he can make any comparisons to the 151, but he should be able to tell us just how black the blacks are, gamma, color accuracy, etc.

Thanks for the response. Until D-Nice can do his thing with the 6020, I will continue to read everything I can in the forums and elsewhere as to make an informed decision. I do feel that no matter which Pioneer I decide on, it will be fantastic as everthing i have read or seen about Pioneer shows their superiority in the Plasma market. Any other info from anyone is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Ralph

I am wondering about how much difference there will actually be in the picture quality between the 6020 and the 151? Does anyone have an idea? I realize that the 151 has not been released yet, but does anyone have an educated guess based on last years models?
Ralph

Hi Ralph:

I recall the figure of 5% being tossed around comparing the 8G and 8G Elites last year. But what does that mean? How do you define 'better'? The blacks are 5% blacker? The reds are 5% redder? Is that better? You really have to judge with your own eyes and determine the correlation between eye candy and wallet sugar. I think all can agree that the Elites are different and, based on the price premium, offer better-ness qualities.

Good luck with making your decision.

BTW, I have a 6020 enroute and will giving it a workout next week.


Your impressions on this panel will be the post I'm REALLY looking forward to reading.

As others have said before, thanks for everything you bring to this board D-Nice. :)

D-Nice: Will you provide us with CIE charts, gamma curves, and grayscale tracking. And any other of those measurements (blacks in FL)

No need for PMs regarding this. For non-Elites I personally recommend Robert @ Value Electronics, Roman @ Buybestplasma, and Chis @ Clevelandplasma.

BTW, I have a 6020 enroute and will giving it a workout next week.

A BIG thank you goes out to Robert for sending me this evaluation unit :)

COOL !!! :D

Thanks D-Nice and thanks Robert!

D-Nice: Will you provide us with CIE charts, gamma curves, and grayscale tracking. And any other of those measurements (blacks in FL)If you want it :)

COOL !!! :D

Thanks D-Nice and thanks Robert!I say thank Robert WAY above/before me. He is going above and beyond for all of us.

I have just purchased/pre-ordered the 151FD from Robert at Value Electronics. So far, I'm very happy with the experience.

Are you ready for a new rule? I am serious here though, When a unit is being closed out by Pioneer, as the PDP-5010FD and PDP-6010FD, all restrictions are removed and anyone can sell the product.

Would that time frame be termed "The Deal Of Century"??:D

Would that time frame be termed "The Deal Of Century"??:D

If you can find those units right now the prices are incredibly low, even the B&M stores have them at great deals but the stock on them are getting very slim. Deal of the Century is correct.

If you can find those units right now the prices are incredibly low, even the B&M stores have them at great deals but the stock on them are getting very slim. Deal of the Century is correct.
The units I saw @ Sams Club were manufactured in April, anyone know if they have the 'new power supply".

I say thank Robert WAY above/before me. He is going above and beyond for all of us.

Amen to that. Who else would go the extra mile like Robert (and D-Nice) to keep AVS'rs informed.

The units I saw @ Sams Club were manufactured in April, anyone know if they have the 'new power supply".

April of this year correct?

April 08, yes! Boxes looked fresh.

I say thank Robert WAY above/before me. He is going above and beyond for all of us.

Thanks Robert! You are the coolest!!!

April 08, yes! Boxes looked fresh.

From what I have seen and heard all Pioneer 2008 built units have had significantly less problems. Again, that is the feedback I have been given. D-Nice, could you elaborate on this?

I wish that people would refrain from asking personal questions to sponsors regarding pricing/purchases. Please PM them....it's easy enough. I am all for keeping the thread alive and top of the mountain, but other members have to sift through these personal appleals to our wonderful forum sponsors.

I understand the excitement surrounding these sets.....that much closer to the perfect reference image.:) But the forum sponsors would probably even prefer PM's....as they have previously stated. Thanks.:)

I wish that people would refrain from asking personal questions to sponsors regarding pricing/purchases. Please PM them....it's easy enough. I am all for keeping the thread alive and top of the mountain, but other members have to sift through these personal appleals to our wonderful forum sponsors.

I understand the excitement surrounding these sets.....that much closer to the perfect reference image.:) But the forum sponsors would probably even prefer PM's....as they have previously stated. Thanks.:)

I agree 100%. Price questions should be sent via PM and all other personal stuff in another thread. I leave the forum alone at nights and all anarchy breaks loose. Lets stick to the units at hand and gets some reviews going. I apologize for any inconvenience.

I wish that people would refrain from asking personal questions to sponsors regarding pricing/purchases. Please PM them....it's easy enough. I am all for keeping the thread alive and top of the mountain, but other members have to sift through these personal appleals to our wonderful forum sponsors.

I understand the excitement surrounding these sets.....that much closer to the perfect reference image.:) But the forum sponsors would probably even prefer PM's....as they have previously stated. Thanks.:)


maybe you should click the "report this post" on the post that shows pricing.and let the mods do thier job.
By creating a post complaining about it you are just as guilty of cluttering up the thread as they are (and so am I for posting this, i apologize). And the cycle goes on and on. Lets simply report the post and be done with it.

Greetings

Forum rules are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/announcement.php?f=167&a=119

If you see a problematic post: please don't respond to it: use the 'report post' button and let a mod handle it

Please guys: no price talk other than MSRP: and certainly no selling on these forums: no exceptions please

Thank you

I just came back from visiting my local Showcase (Tweeter) to ask a couple simple questions. I told the sales person I was expecting them to receive the new Elites around later July. He looks into the computer and notices that his shipping dates have been pushed back from mid June to later June like around June 26 or so.

The interesting part is they sell ONLY Elites (they don't sell non Elites)

I was told that the area I'm in will get 15 units and the store that I'm buying from here in Scottsdale will be getting about 5. With my pre-order and down payment, I will be getting their first shipment.

I may be one of the few in my area that will get one of the very early limited run G9 Elites.

Thats good news, I am hoping to hear the same, that would be great.

Thats good news, I am hoping to hear the same, that would be great.

Indeed it would! http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/113.gif

Thats good news, I am hoping to hear the same, that would be great.
There will be a small distro of Elites the latter part of June.

I heard that but it does not mean ALL dealers will get some nationwide :)

I heard that but it does not mean ALL dealers will get some nationwide :)You are correct. However, you should be taken care of ;)

so sorry for my miss spelling and this long post and if its off topic

UMR of course the a650 wont get close once the elite is calibrated right?

I actually said the color performance with the A650 is close to an Elite Pioneer plasma post calibration.


optivity seriously you and everyone else that has mentioned that matching same branded is just sales gimic... i would agree to the point where if its not been proven AND guess what ROBERT aka dtv tivo dealer has INFACT seen this to be true, so please cut the crap and if YOU think its just sales gimic DONT buy it together its that SIMPLE.

everyone has this problem for an example , i CANNOT and WILL not understand why people think cable is good, even if i had the power to cause a warning via cyber space DONT GET CABLE ITS POS it wont matter people dont listen, everyone says this and that but really everyone is wrong in some way, if we were right then we be perfect civilisation , heck i cant even spell right

HERE is another one for you optivity, you canNOT judge products based on manufacture SPECS because if you just give links like you did with the 2 branded bd players, guess what then you are contridcintg yourself;):rolleyes: by saying belive market specs then you just are going in circle fool example " Contrast ratio is 1 million :eek: this tv is soo good" / sarcasim!


This is nothing more then a sales gimmick that was concocted by Pioneer to get you to buy their overpriced Blu-ray player to go along with one of their overpriced PDPs.

You will see no significant difference with the play-back of Blu-ray discs regardless if the Blu-ray player is a PS3, a BDP-S550 (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/sony-announces-bdp-s350-bdp-s550-first-new-blu-ray-players-sin/) (my recommendation) or a BDP-05FD.

Compare the BDP-05FD & BDP-S550 (http://www.blu-ray.com/players/compare.php?checkbox14=37&checkbox34=63&submitA=Compare&action=compare) for yourself.

I heard that but it does not mean ALL dealers will get some nationwide :)

Roman, what are the odds you'll get one of the early shipments?

Been reading for about 6 months. Will be purchasing, likely a 50" plasma. 800 and 5020 seem like great choices. A major reason for the 5020 would be the ability to watch two sources at once. I am a huge sports fan and would like to be able to watch two games on a split screen.

Q. With the 5020, can I watch picture side picture with one source coming from digital cable > AVR > HDMI and the other as coax feed into the 5020 (I know in this case it would be SD)? Or would I have to get a second STB with HDMI to the 5020? Or some other configuration?

It is either that or buy a small LCD and find somewhere to put it (see pic). Viewing distance is 8'. Thanks in advance.

You are correct. However, you should be taken care of ;)

Way cool.:cool:

I am not very lucky. I've been told it was shipped on Wednesday from a neighbor state but still no info.:confused:

Jesus. That's a very understated TV for the setup you have there.

It is either that or buy a small LCD and find somewhere to put it (see pic). Viewing distance is 8'. Thanks in advance.

My 6020 was also going to arrive today but it never arrived. Hope to see it monday.

Pioneer can write whatever it wants into its policies. They can put a piece of paper in your television's box that says if you watch the TV, they get to rape your wife. ...

Unfortunately, they do set the 250 mile limit in the contract with the dealer, which the dealer IS obligated to adhere to.

I picked up my 6020 today at 5PM. Still working on getting it put up.

I tell you what, Chris from ClevelandPlasma was great. I called to inquire about TV, decided to go ahead with order because they had a warehouse just 25miles away. This was done at about 3:30PM. Went to pick up TV at 5PM. Was running a little late, the guy at the warehouse actually waited till i got there at 5:20PM and now the TV is here and i need to set it up.

Wasn't going to pull the trigger so quick, but it was one of those things. What the heck. :)

Anyhow....will go try to get it set up, my room is not even done yet so it's going to be interesting.

Only HD source i have right now is my Xbox 360. So I will try to post some pics later tonight if i have some exra time.

-D

Only HD source i have right now is my Xbox 360. So I will try to post some pics later tonight if i have some exra time.

Cool! Does your Xbox 360 have a HD-DVD player?

Just want to make sure that I am notified of any new posts. Sorry for the O. T.

I picked up my 6020 today at 5PM. Still working on getting it put up.

I tell you what, Chris from ClevelandPlasma was great. I called to inquire about TV, decided to go ahead with order because they had a warehouse just 25miles away. This was done at about 3:30PM. Went to pick up TV at 5PM. Was running a little late, the guy at the warehouse actually waited till i got there at 5:20PM and now the TV is here and i need to set it up.

Wasn't going to pull the trigger so quick, but it was one of those things. What the heck. :)

Anyhow....will go try to get it set up, my room is not even done yet so it's going to be interesting.

Only HD source i have right now is my Xbox 360. So I will try to post some pics later tonight if i have some exra time.

-D


Hurry

:)

Been reading for about 6 months. Will be purchasing, likely a 50" plasma. 800 and 5020 seem like great choices. A major reason for the 5020 would be the ability to watch two sources at once. I am a huge sports fan and would like to be able to watch two games on a split screen.

Q. With the 5020, can I watch picture side picture with one source coming from digital cable > AVR > HDMI and the other as coax feed into the 5020 (I know in this case it would be SD)? Or would I have to get a second STB with HDMI to the 5020? Or some other configuration?

It is either that or buy a small LCD and find somewhere to put it (see pic). Viewing distance is 8'. Thanks in advance.

I know it's off topic, but how's that JL sub treatin' you? I've read about them and they look pretty interesting.

I know it's off topic, but how's that JL sub treatin' you? I've read about them and they look pretty interesting.

The first thing I saw was the sub lol. How is it? And is it the 10" or 12'?

Been reading for about 6 months. Will be purchasing, likely a 50" plasma. 800 and 5020 seem like great choices. A major reason for the 5020 would be the ability to watch two sources at once. I am a huge sports fan and would like to be able to watch two games on a split screen.

Q. With the 5020, can I watch picture side picture with one source coming from digital cable > AVR > HDMI and the other as coax feed into the 5020 (I know in this case it would be SD)? Or would I have to get a second STB with HDMI to the 5020? Or some other configuration?

It is either that or buy a small LCD and find somewhere to put it (see pic). Viewing distance is 8'. Thanks in advance.
Not sure about the 5020, but what you describe works for the 5010.

UMR of course the a650 wont get close once the elite is calibrated right?

...

A properly calibrated A650 LCD will have color very close to a calibrated Pioneer Elite. LCD from Samsung is coming much closer to the best performance possible. I would suggest you read the review from the client for whom I calibrated his Samsung which replaced his 8G Elite Pioneer. He prefers the Samsung LCD.

Hard to imagine. My buddy got a 750 and it can't touch my Elite in both his opinion and mine.
When I go over I can't even get passed the blur(sample-hold) to see what the finer points are. The black levels, although reportedly pretty low, do not look that spectacular during BR viewing.
Everything still looks like a video instead of a film as well.

A properly calibrated A650 LCD will have color very close to a calibrated Pioneer Elite. LCD from Samsung is coming much closer to the best performance possible. I would suggest you read the review from the client for whom I calibrated his Samsung which replaced his 8G Elite Pioneer. He prefers the Samsung LCD.

One client does not a revolution make. :rolleyes:

I would suggest you read the review from the client for whom I calibrated his Samsung which replaced his 8G Elite Pioneer. He prefers the Samsung LCD.Could you link it? :) TIA

LL3HD....
Actually DMCfan's words were that in his opinion it gave his 1150(I'm guessing un-calibrated) a run for its' money, while in his opinion it was possibly better in a few areas.
It is in the 650 thread.

I wonder what he didn't like so much about his 1150 that he went looking at LCD's?!?

LL3HD....
Actually DMCfan's words were that in his opinion it gave his 1150(I'm guessing un-calibrated) a run for its' money, while in his opinion it was possibly better in a few areas.
It is in the 650 thread.

I wonder what he didn't like so much about his 1150 that he went looking at LCD's?!?I'm curious too. I don’t follow the LCD threads, that’s why I asked for the link but I’ll look for it. :cool:

LL3HD....

I wonder what he didn't like so much about his 1150 that he went looking at LCD's?!?
Thats a good question. I have never heard of anyone going from a Kuro to any LCD. Its usually the other way around.

A properly calibrated A650 LCD will have color very close to a calibrated Pioneer Elite. LCD from Samsung is coming much closer to the best performance possible. I would suggest you read the review from the client for whom I calibrated his Samsung which replaced his 8G Elite Pioneer. He prefers the Samsung LCD.



How were the black levels on the Samsung compared to the Pioneer 8G Elite and the Panasonic 800u's?

The first thing I saw was the sub lol. How is it? And is it the 10" or 12'?

Definitely OT, but it is ridiculous. F113. 13.5"D, 2500W RMS. Pearl Harbor, WOTW, Cloverfield lows are accurate and powerful. Need the PDP to complete the system.

Now we return to the regularly scheduled discussion. Hopefully someone answers my picture side picture question.

Dee-troit Basketball!

How were the black levels on the Samsung compared to the Pioneer 8G Elite and the Panasonic 800u's?

The black levels are good enough on the Samsung to satisfy many, but they are not the best. I would say they are close to the 800u's. Many people are looking for a lower cost or higher light output alternative to the Pioneer plasma's. The Samsung LCD's are an option that person should consider.

Sorry for OT but what is the ftl post calibration on those?

So are any 6020's still availible from any forum sponsors?
Or are they all gone now? :mad::(:mad::(

Could you link it? :) TIA

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13896571&postcount=9164

Sorry for OT but what is the ftl post calibration on those?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13892707&postcount=9116

A single ftL is the wrong way to look at an LCD because of the backlight. The maximum was 72 ftL. The minimum is probably around 20 ftL. You just adjust the backlight as needed for the given room light level. This is where LCD has an advantage to plasma.

LL3HD....
Actually DMCfan's words were that in his opinion it gave his 1150(I'm guessing un-calibrated) a run for its' money, while in his opinion it was possibly better in a few areas.
It is in the 650 thread.

I wonder what he didn't like so much about his 1150 that he went looking at LCD's?!?

He did not like the processing for film.

Doesn't make sense that higher light output would be a need for a calibrated display in a dark room. Perhaps this particular client had some strange needs? Is he saying he needed a higher peak light output than the kuro with the brightness jacked? this looks insanely bright in a dark room on mine and i could'nt imagine actually wanting more brightness.

Also they A650s are nice, but I can't imagine them getting rated anywhere near the kuros. black levels are nowhere close, and they have still have all the same LCD issues as any other. just my .02

He adjusts the backlight to match the room light level. His room is not dark in the day, but it can be at night. This is the type of situation LCD is good at. When I calibrate an LCD I take the measurements with the backlight at maximum and then tone it down to look good in the room as it is. This is what any user should do.

Ok....here are a few pics that i was able to take.

OTA HD and XBOX 360 over component. Optimum mode for OTA HD and game mode for XBOX.

I didn't have much time to mess with it, thought I would take a few shots and post up here.

The black levels are very impressive. I was debating on waiting for the panasonic 800 series to release the 58 inch and compare. I also looked at the samsung 52a750 LCD (this was first LCD that i ever considered) but i can't stay away from the plasmas.

Anyhow....hope to get to play with it more this weekend, while trying to work on getting the room done.

-D

He did not like the processing for film.

:confused:
Does he use the motion enhancer?
That is stunning as that is one of Pioneer's strong points and an LCD weakpoint - imo.
But if he is happy that is all that matters for him.

If people want to discuss the A650 more they should go to the A650 thread. The only reason I posted any of this here is because I was misquoted.

Ok....here are a few pics that i was able to take.

The black levels are very impressive. I was debating on waiting for the panasonic 800 series to release the 58 inch and compare. I also looked at the samsung 52a750 LCD (this was first LCD that i ever considered) but i can't stay away from the plasmas.

That is impressive. I think you should post them in the owner's thread (if you haven't already).

Ok....here are a few pics that i was able to take.

OTA HD and XBOX 360 over component. Optimum mode for OTA HD and game mode for XBOX.

I didn't have much time to mess with it, thought I would take a few shots and post up here.

The black levels are very impressive. I was debating on waiting for the panasonic 800 series to release the 58 inch and compare. I also looked at the samsung 52a750 LCD (this was first LCD that i ever considered) but i can't stay away from the plasmas.

Anyhow....hope to get to play with it more this weekend, while trying to work on getting the room done.

-D

Thanks for posting up the first set of pics!!

I've tried a few lcds, and I'm fed up with the defects, flaws, etc. So, here I am lurking and reading about the quality control that seems to be inherent in the units manufactured by Pioneer. My question will probably have to be answered by someone who has experience with a couple of different units, and this is a little of topic, but I really need some experienced input.
I'm really wanting to wait and pay the big price for a new Gen9 Pioneer panel. However, the reality is that I probably can't justify the cost. So, I have just started looking at the Pioneers currently available. I am thinking that a Pioneer Elite Pro 1150 HD would be a better choice over a Panny 800 and the Pioneer non Elite 1080p- even though the 1150 is not 1080p. This is especially true for me, since I want a 50 inch model and I'll be sitting seven to eight feet away (I'm sure you are all familiar with the cnet below 55 inches/resolution argument). I would be using the unit for console gaming and watching movies in all formats. How accurate is my line of reasoning, and is the difference in resolution going to be more noticeable in console gaming (ps3, XB360, wii, older consoles) than it would be for movies? I have been reading articles and opinions that truly contradict each other all evening long. My hunch is that the color accuracy and processing of the Elite is going to be far more important than the native resolution if I have to give something up to stay under 4 grand. I guess I need some reassurance that I'm on the right track. Thanks!

Ok....here are a few pics that i was able to take.

OTA HD and XBOX 360 over component. Optimum mode for OTA HD and game mode for XBOX.

I didn't have much time to mess with it, thought I would take a few shots and post up here.

The black levels are very impressive. I was debating on waiting for the panasonic 800 series to release the 58 inch and compare. I also looked at the samsung 52a750 LCD (this was first LCD that i ever considered) but i can't stay away from the plasmas.

Anyhow....hope to get to play with it more this weekend, while trying to work on getting the room done.

-D


What display are you coming from previously?
What are your thoughts?

Hawgfin....your line of resoning sounds good to me.
I own an 1150. :)

...
It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up to the 9G, though.

I am sure the 9G will be a fabulous product. It just may not be the best choice for everyone.

My hunch is that the color accuracy and processing of the Elite is going to be far more important than the native resolution if I have to give something up to stay under 4 grand. I guess I need some reassurance that I'm on the right track. Thanks!

You mentioned a dollar value and you can get a 60 inch 9G inch non-elite for near that (and a 50 inch for way less than that). PM one of the sponsors and see. :)

I am sure the 9G will be a fabulous product. It just may not be the best choice for everyone.

I take it will be a while before somebody with a Non-Elite 9G can get on your schedule and you can give us your impression whether the loss of Picture Detail settings in both the user and SERVICE menu and the constant ON for Noise reduction will affect your ability to perform a calibration and get it close to an 9G Elite (or an 8G Non-Elite for that matter)?

I take it will be a while before somebody with a Non-Elite 9G can get on your schedule and you can give us your impression whether the loss of Picture Detail settings in both the user and SERVICE menu and the constant ON for Noise reduction will affect your ability to perform a calibration and get it close to an 9G Elite (or an 8G Non-Elite for that matter)?

It appears Pioneer is intentionally making the distance between the Elite and non-Elite units greater than the 8G units based on what I have read. I will not know until I see one. I also do not generally post negative news because of previous issues with people flaming the messenger.

Ok....here are a few pics that i was able to take.

OTA HD and XBOX 360 over component. Optimum mode for OTA HD and game mode for XBOX.

I didn't have much time to mess with it, thought I would take a few shots and post up here.

The black levels are very impressive. I was debating on waiting for the panasonic 800 series to release the 58 inch and compare. I also looked at the samsung 52a750 LCD (this was first LCD that i ever considered) but i can't stay away from the plasmas.

Anyhow....hope to get to play with it more this weekend, while trying to work on getting the room done.

-D

Thanks for the pics!

What's up with that "KURO" in the upper right of the bezel? That's just some sort of sticker correct (e.g. removable)?

bucd

Nice pics!! Good to see a fellow Buckeye on the thread. I hope to have a 5020/111 sometime this summer before the first game this fall.

BucD,

Could you post a few pics of the set itself rather than the screenshots? Maybe a shot of the rear connections area, one of side edges, and maybe one of the front trim/frame?

Are the sides still silver like the 6010, or black like the Elites?

It's hard to tell, but from your GTA shot, it looks like the front frame/edges are smaller than the 6010, no?

Also, has the GUI been updated from the 6010 series, or is it the same? I've seen conflicting info.

Thanks
Botcher

Bezel looks the same as my 1150 without speakers.

Ok....here are a few pics that i was able to take.

OTA HD and XBOX 360 over component. Optimum mode for OTA HD and game mode for XBOX.

I didn't have much time to mess with it, thought I would take a few shots and post up here.

The black levels are very impressive. I was debating on waiting for the panasonic 800 series to release the 58 inch and compare. I also looked at the samsung 52a750 LCD (this was first LCD that i ever considered) but i can't stay away from the plasmas.

Anyhow....hope to get to play with it more this weekend, while trying to work on getting the room done.

-D

Nice to finally see some pics, glad we could help ;)

I take it will be a while before somebody with a Non-Elite 9G can get on your schedule and you can give us your impression whether the loss of Picture Detail settings in both the user and SERVICE menu and the constant ON for Noise reduction will affect your ability to perform a calibration and get it close to an 9G Elite (or an 8G Non-Elite for that matter)?

I have availability in LA and Phoenix for June if someone has one they want adjusted.

The black levels are good enough on the Samsung to satisfy many, but they are not the best. I would say they are close to the 800u's. Many people are looking for a lower cost or higher light output alternative to the Pioneer plasma's. The Samsung LCD's are an option that person should consider.

In terms of black levels, I'd buy that part of it. But to me (and many others) the 120Hz effect is too distracting and degrades the experience. Toshiba and Sharp and Sony do that better than Samsung, in my view.

I take it will be a while before somebody with a Non-Elite 9G can get on your schedule and you can give us your impression whether the loss of Picture Detail settings in both the user and SERVICE menu and the constant ON for Noise reduction will affect your ability to perform a calibration and get it close to an 9G Elite (or an 8G Non-Elite for that matter)?
Let me be very clear about this, there NEVER were picture detail settings on the non-Elites beyond RGB controls in the Service Menu. I'm not sure why people continue to think that it was originally there....it wasn't.

We will have a full calibration report and review of the 6020 hopefully by 6/10/08 by yours truly.

Thanks, D-Nice. I look forward to using your calibration report on my new 6020 which I have preordered.

^^^Why is the unit on pre-order. There are more than a few around town.

Alex at Invision said there were only "a couple hundred 6020's available nationwide" as of now. He said he didn't have enough to fill all his preorders at this time and that I'd need to wait until he gets more in.

I also do not generally post negative news because of previous issues

Kind of like the FOX News of TV reviews. ;) Fair in that balanced kind of way. :rolleyes:;) (j/k!)

Kind of like the FOX News of TV reviews. ;) Fair in that balanced kind of way. :rolleyes:;) (j/k!)

Kind of makes it tough to do any valid research when getting only one side of the picture.

Apparently the 8G Kuros will do 50Hz (PAL) frame rates and work on international voltage (240V / 50Hz).

Are there any indications that this will hold true for the 9G as well?

Pioneer can write whatever it wants into its policies. They can put a piece of paper in your television's box that says if you watch the TV, they get to rape your wife. However, just as with a policy of warranty application based on purchase source, enforcement of such a provision would be in violation of the law. Furthermore, purchasing the product does not constitute agreement to any terms set forth by the manufacturer, legal or not. You must first explicitly agree to the provisions verbally or in writing.

All goods are warrantied by the manufacturer, not the retailer. This was established by Magnussen-Moss. The manufacturer cannot legally deny service based on from whom the product was purchased because the warranty does not come from the retailer. What Pioneer and most consumer electronics manufacturers do is prey upon the ignorance and laziness of the public to maintain their anti-competitive price fixing network which they use to create perception of product quality or value.

It doesn't matter from where you purchase your TV, Pioneer *will* fulfill its warranty because they know they are legally obligated to do so. They will certainly try to weasel out of it at first, but when they know you are serious about taking legal action they will buckle. I know this from experience.

Despite what Pioneer wants consumers to believe, Pioneer is not Congress. Pioneer does not establish laws.

Well said and welcome to the forum,

I would just like to add that Pioneer cannot give a blanket "disclaimer" on the products they sell. Unless they can prove you had "notice" of their policy and even then you would have a legal backdrop as stated above.

Also, you as a consumer cannot "waive" the provisions inherent in a warranty. All products that are new have implied warranties that can be enforced.

Paul

Kind of like the FOX News of TV reviews. ;) Fair in that balanced kind of way. :rolleyes:;) (j/k!)

And just like FOX news, taking the statement out of context. :rolleyes:

And just like FOX news, taking the statement out of context. :rolleyes:

I think you guys should keep the politics out of this...

Apparently the 8G Kuros will do 50Hz (PAL) frame rates and work on international voltage (240V / 50Hz).

Are there any indications that this will hold true for the 9G as well?

I doubt they would take out this feature on this GEN since they have not on previous ones :)

A properly calibrated A650 LCD will have color very close to a calibrated Pioneer Elite. LCD from Samsung is coming much closer to the best performance possible. I would suggest you read the review from the client for whom I calibrated his Samsung which replaced his 8G Elite Pioneer. He prefers the Samsung LCD.

Can you tell us whey he perfers the Samsung LCD?

Hi All just thought i would put this review up for you all as i found this info on another forum for the Pioneer LX-6090H

so here it is

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.hemmabiocenter.se%2Fcategory%2 Ftv-apparater%2F&hl=sv&ie=UTF8&sl=sv&tl=en

enjoy

Wow, that is the best review I've ever seen. Plus, it's fun to figure out the Swedish words for calibration, contrast ratio, gamma curve and so on. Well worth the time.

This is a really big thumbs up for the 9G Elite, assuming the CMS and other calibration controls on the US Elite are the same as on the European model reviewed.

Anyone have any news or information from the Pioneer Canada road show this weekend?

Long time reader, first time poster and just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the great information. I just finished pre-ordering a 151 which will be my first plasma. Also a recommendation to anyone looking for a 151, I ordered through John at Axxis Audio, a forum sponsor. They are one of the three companies recommended by the board for Elite's. I couldn't find their forum ad (which he's looking into) so I PM'd him at Axxis Audio John and his price was very competitive. Thanks again for everyone’s postings especially D-Nice who goes above and beyond. Take care.

David

Dumb question time:

Will the high-colour and super-special-pioneer-magic benefits of the new elite receivers and blu-ray player be restricted to the 9G Elite Kuros, or will the 5020 and 6020 also benefit? I'm a bit confused on that, and can't seem to find a definitive answer. I need to get a new receiver soon, and this will be important info: I can afford the 5020, but not the elite version :( Thanks!

Dumb question time:

Will the high-colour and super-special-pioneer-magic benefits of the new elite receivers and blu-ray player be restricted to the 9G Elite Kuros, or will the 5020 and 6020 also benefit? I'm a bit confused on that, and can't seem to find a definitive answer. I need to get a new receiver soon, and this will be important info: I can afford the 5020, but not the elite version :( Thanks!Any Kuro will benefit from the BDP-51 or Elite 05. The receivers have nothing to do with whats going on in the BD player besides sending an unaltered 12bit 4:4:4 signal over HDMI 1.3

Alright,
I pulled the trigger today and ordered a 6020 form Robert at Value Electronics!
He was very helpful and knowledgable and My 6020 should be here Thursday 6/5 at the soonest.
I had originally decided on the 151FD but have decided that the 6020 will be the better bet for me since I do not plan on pro calibration and could use the extra money for an Audio system.
I will just be using D-Nices reference settings once he gets his 6020 from Robert.
From what I have read, Robert is sending D-Nice an evaluation unit to do his settings/calibration/workup basically to help us all out. This will help myself and many others tremedously!
So a HUGE Thank you to Robert!
-Chad

Alright,
I pulled the trigger today and ordered a 6020 form Robert at Value Electronics!
He was very helpful and knowledgable and My 6020 should be here Thursday 6/5 at the soonest.
I had originally decided on the 151FD but have decided that the 6020 will be the better bet for me since I do not plan on pro calibration and could use the extra money for an Audio system.
I will just be using D-Nices reference settings once he gets his 6020 from Robert.
From what I have read, Robert is sending D-Nice an evaluation unit to do his settings/calibration/workup basically to help us all out. This will help myself and many others tremedously!
So a HUGE Thank you to Robert!
-ChadYes he is. And it looks like your panel will get to you before mine (scheduled for 6/6). You ol' bama :D

I'll be more than happy to walk you thru SM RGB changes once I complete my calibration.

Has anyone seen a 6020 in a Best Buy this weekend?

Question on the 6020. I use to watch standard def "4:3" with black bars on the side. I am having difficultly getting my current set stretching the 4:3 or 480i content and NOT stretching the HD channels. Does anyone know if the 6020 can do this or if there is a setting on my SA 8300 to do this? I tried everything on the 8300 but it stretched HD and non-HD channels.

Edit: The reason I want to do this is to limit any chance of burn in on the new Pio.
Thanks, -kkgsxr

As long as you are mixing up your viewing content you will be ok. (To burn a set and actually harm it, your unit would have to be on pause for about a week 24-7.) Different units and even units of the same make very as far as the stretch mode. The 8300 cable box has nice stretch modes. just a note, the # button will stretch the content with one touch on the remote ;)

That is my problem, a lot of my viewing is in 4:3. Fox even puts black bars up on HD broadcasts during some shows, like Simpsons and Seinfeld.

-kkgsxr

I'll be more than happy to walk you thru SM RGB changes once I complete my calibration.

Will the process for accessing the Service Menu to make your recommended RGB settings be posted to the Non-Elite 9G Thread? Or is this something that we need to PM you for? If the latter, please put me on your list as I have a 6020 on order.

kkgsxr dont worry much but if you want be on the safe side run the break in disc like a week non stop that way it settles in.

but on my 42px75u i just wach black bars 4:3 or letterbox and i usual once that show over i just change the channel to something that fills it up. or usual once im getting ready to sleep i put like non logo fill screen channel and let it clean off the ir and its good .


That is my problem, a lot of my viewing is in 4:3. Fox even puts black bars up on HD broadcasts during some shows, like Simpsons and Seinfeld.

-kkgsxr

Any Kuro will benefit from the BDP-51 or Elite 05. The receivers have nothing to do with whats going on in the BD player besides sending an unaltered 12bit 4:4:4 signal over HDMI 1.3

Just to clarify, you DON'T need a Pioneer receiver per se, nor a 9th generation KURO. You need a 12-bit 4:4:4 Deep Color capable display, (which both 8G and 9G Kuros are) and a receiver that passes the 12-bit 4:4:4 signal without modifications to the display. The BD player is responsible for handling the upsampling of the native 8-bit 4:2:0 data from the Blu-Ray disc and sending it onward. I've read here on the forums that either of the new Pioneer players (Elite and non-Elite) do the upsampling required.

KDD

Just to clarify, you DON'T need a Pioneer receiver per se, nor a 9th generation KURO. You need a 12-bit 4:4:4 Deep Color capable display, (which both 8G and 9G Kuros are) and a receiver that passes the 12-bit 4:4:4 signal without modifications to the display. The BD player is responsible for handling the upsampling of the native 8-bit 4:2:0 data from the Blu-Ray disc and sending it onward. I've read here on the forums that either of the new Pioneer players (Elite and non-Elite) do the upsampling required.

KDD

I asked this question earlier and didn't get a response. Are you saying that 12-bit 4:4:4 is synonymous with Deep Color capable display?

Just to clarify, you DON'T need a Pioneer receiver per se, nor a 9th generation KURO. You need a 12-bit 4:4:4 Deep Color capable display, (which both 8G and 9G Kuros are) and a receiver that passes the 12-bit 4:4:4 signal without modifications to the display. The BD player is responsible for handling the upsampling of the native 8-bit 4:2:0 data from the Blu-Ray disc and sending it onward. I've read here on the forums that either of the new Pioneer players (Elite and non-Elite) do the upsampling required.

KDDCorrect

Alright,
I pulled the trigger today and ordered a 6020 form Robert at Value Electronics!
-Chad

That's awesome Chad. Let the rock-o-meter commence the countdown until your 6020 arrives.http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/images/smilies/action-smiley-035.gif

A little off topic, but remember Cronin? I thought he had a few ideas about the new 9g thread. What happened to him?

I was going to post the same thing about a week ago...he's been MIA.
I hope all is well.
Anyone here know him personally?

A little off topic, but remember Cronin? I thought he had a few ideas about the new 9g thread. What happened to him?
last i saw of him, he started some inflammatory thread that the mods locked, then proceeded to immediately start a new thread on the same topic with snide references to the old thread.

methinks he was given a long vacation. :eek:

That explains that. He was passionate about his A/V.:D

Has anyone seen a 6020 in a Best Buy this weekend?

I've concluded worst buy is the worst place to view a kuro..

I've concluded worst buy is the worst place to view a kuro..

Totally Agree, just wanted to get my 9th Gen Fix until my 111 arives.

That's awesome Chad. Let the rock-o-meter commence the countdown until your 6020 arrives.http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/images/smilies/action-smiley-035.gif

http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/rock.gif It's going to be REALLY hard resisting the temptation to buy a 6020, once all the owners start posting reviews and pics.http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/drool.gif

It's funny reading these threads every year. I can't believe the amount of people who go through TVs like some people go through sneakers.

Correct

Thanks D-Nice and Drkddell! That's good news indeed. Now I just have to wait for the Canadian group buy on the kuros to work itself out. I wish I could buy from one of the sponsors here, but something tells me the delivery to Canada would be a chore!

Point of curiosity, D-Nice (appropriate name, by the way): will the 50" sets be able to use the same reference settings as the 60" sets?

Thanks again :)

Wow, that is the best review I've ever seen. Plus, it's fun to figure out the Swedish words for calibration, contrast ratio, gamma curve and so on. Well worth the time.

This is a really big thumbs up for the 9G Elite, assuming the CMS and other calibration controls on the US Elite are the same as on the European model reviewed.

Thist much better:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7109930&postcount=137

Thist much better:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7109930&postcount=137

Thanks for the link enator.:)

Thist much better:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7109930&postcount=137

Yes, thanks enator, that is a better translation. It's a good review for those interested in calibration-related changes in G9. Hopefully, we'll see whether D-Nice and umr concur when they get to test US Elites.

Just to clarify, you DON'T need a Pioneer receiver per se, nor a 9th generation KURO. You need a 12-bit 4:4:4 Deep Color capable display, (which both 8G and 9G Kuros are) and a receiver that passes the 12-bit 4:4:4 signal without modifications to the display. The BD player is responsible for handling the upsampling of the native 8-bit 4:2:0 data from the Blu-Ray disc and sending it onward. I've read here on the forums that either of the new Pioneer players (Elite and non-Elite) do the upsampling required.

KDD

Makes you wonder why the Pioneer panels themselves do not do this upsampling? That way any source connected to the panel would benefit from it, not just Blu-rays.

Makes you wonder why the Pioneer panels themselves do not do this upsampling? That way any source connected to the panel would benefit from it, not just Blu-rays.
Sorry if this is off topic.
I have the Pioneer vsx81tsv elite receiver. It only supports hdmi 1.2, but I believe it will pass the video signal without modification. If I get the pioneer BD player, can I plug it into the receiver or do I need to get an HDMI splitter?

Thanks, -kkgsxr

hey does anyone know when best buy is going to have the new pioneers on display to look at? i kinda want to see it first before i spend a bunch of money.

Thanks D-Nice and Drkddell! That's good news indeed. Now I just have to wait for the Canadian group buy on the kuros to work itself out. I wish I could buy from one of the sponsors here, but something tells me the delivery to Canada would be a chore!

Point of curiosity, D-Nice (appropriate name, by the way): will the 50" sets be able to use the same reference settings as the 60" sets?

Thanks again :)

+1

No, only HDMI 1.3 can transfer Deep Colour information. You would have to hook your player directly to the panel in order to pass the Deep Colour information but then you would have to settle for the audio coming out of your TV rather than your receiver.

Sorry if this is off topic.
I have the Pioneer vsx81tsv elite receiver. It only supports hdmi 1.2, but I believe it will pass the video signal without modification. If I get the pioneer BD player, can I plug it into the receiver or do I need to get an HDMI splitter?

Thanks, -kkgsxr

No, only HDMI 1.3 can transfer Deep Colour information. You would have to hook your player directly to the panel in order to pass the Deep Colour information but then you would have to settle for the audio coming out of your TV rather than your receiver.

Not necessarily. If the Blu-Ray player has analog 7.1 channel outputs, you could send the sound to the receiver that way. You would need to send the video directly to the plasma through HDMI as Kamikaze said. Until the firmware of the new players is updated, they will not be able to send DTS-HD Master Audio over analog, but the other advanced codecs will be fine. There are some issues that make this a little more complicated but it is very possible. For more information, try looking at the threads for the new Blu-Ray players.

KDD

I am thinking about getting a Pioneer bluray player. i currently have a PS3. does the PS3 output HDMI 1.3 transfer Deep Colour information?

Also,
Forgive me for getting off topic but I would like some opinions. I am needing a sound system to go with my 6020. I am thinking of buying the Onkyo HT-S5100 Home theater in box (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S5100&class=Systems&p=i). Does this seem like something that will go good with my 6020 to get optimal sound quality??

I am thinking about getting a Pioneer bluray player. i currently have a PS3. does the PS3 output HDMI 1.3 transfer Deep Colour information?

It does, if there are any, and there aren't. Neither games not Blu-ray movies support Deep Colour. Games can support Deep Colour but according to a developer I asked the cost of doing so is prohibitive. So essentially Deep Colour is useless, at least for now.

I have a very large window that will be behind where I plan to place my flat screen. I have been visiting and reading the pio and panny forums trying to decide which panel will handle the ambient light the best. I have shades that can be pulled; however, during midday the light is still fairly intense. Will the 5020 with its sensor that adjusts the picture for ambient light affect the picture so as to nullify the difference between the 800 and 5020?

I am thinking about getting a Pioneer bluray player. i currently have a PS3. does the PS3 output HDMI 1.3 transfer Deep Colour information?

Also,
Forgive me for getting off topic but I would like some opinions. I am needing a sound system to go with my 6020. I am thinking of buying the Onkyo HT-S5100 Home theater in box (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S5100&class=Systems&p=i). Does this seem like something that will go good with my 6020 to get optimal sound quality??

All depends on what your budget is but I've never been a huge fan of the HT in a box as you're usually compromising quality. Pioneer has some new receivers coming out along with Denon that are priced very competitively. As for the PS3, it's an excellent Blu Ray player and does meet the 1.3 spec. I currently have a Pioneer Elite VSX 92 and it's a great home theater receiver.

It's funny reading these threads every year. I can't believe the amount of people who go through TVs like some people go through sneakers.

Actually to be totally honest, This will be six TV's in the past year I have been thru (Sony KDSR60XBR1 SXRD, Samsung LNT5271F, Sony KDL52XBR4, Pioneer 5080HD, I now use the Phillips 50PFP5332D/37, and I just ordered my new PDP-6020FD). And I did not count the two DOA PDP-6010Fd's that I got and returned.
I have only been thru one pair of shoes.lol
i guess some of us are just obsessed.

I am new to Pioneer and it seems they are the best of the plasma selection which this is my first. I am looking to purchase the 60" model, but I do not clearly understand the difference between the 6020 & 151 other than the 151 is more expensive. I know the 6020 is now available whereas the 151 will out in another couple of months and the speakers on 6020 are on the bottom compare to on the side on the 151.

I've read a bit that the 151 will give you more options to set your own picture settings, but if I have it professionally calibrated should that take care of that issue - if done correctly?

What else?

The room the TV will be in is fairly dark and I will be using it mostly for sport viewing, but some movies.

Thanks for your help...

"Forgive me for getting off topic but I would like some opinions. I am needing a sound system to go with my 6020. I am thinking of buying the Onkyo HT-S5100 Home theater in box. Does this seem like something that will go good with my 6020 to get optimal sound quality??" -chadmark09
__

The HT-S5100 gets you 2 main speakers, a center speaker, four surround speakers, a subwoofer and a receiver for a bit over $400. I wouldn't expect too much.

Forgive me for getting off topic but I would like some opinions. I am needing a sound system to go with my 6020. I am thinking of buying the Onkyo HT-S5100 Home theater in box (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S5100&class=Systems&p=i). Does this seem like something that will go good with my 6020 to get optimal sound quality??
a TV like the 6020 deserves a better sound system than an HTIB. the Onkyo's are OK, but the speakers and sub are bottom of the barrel.

you can put together your own 5.1 system using separate components, and remain in the HTIB ballpark in terms of budget. i highly recommend checking out the Official HTIB Alternatives Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809777) ;) :D

I am new to Pioneer and it seems they are the best of the plasma selection which this is my first. I am looking to purchase the 60" model, but I do not clearly understand the difference between the 6020 & 151 other than the 151 is more expensive. I know the 6020 is now available whereas the 151 will out in another couple of months and the speakers on 6020 are on the bottom compare to on the side on the 151.

I've read a bit that the 151 will give you more options to set your own picture settings, but if I have it professionally calibrated should that take care of that issue - if done correctly?

What else?

The room the TV will be in is fairly dark and I will be using it mostly for sport viewing, but some movies.

Thanks for your help...
151 has better color accuracy, has 2 year warranty , had a pure picture mode ..... if you are not a kind of person who is into micro details of the picture then you are better off with the 6020....but all the pros in this thread favor the 151

All depends on what your budget is but I've never been a huge fan of the HT in a box as you're usually compromising quality. Pioneer has some new receivers coming out along with Denon that are priced very competitively. As for the PS3, it's an excellent Blu Ray player and does meet the 1.3 spec. I currently have a Pioneer Elite VSX 92 and it's a great home theater receiver.

i also have the pioneer elite vsx92 with bowers and wilkins speakers. it sounds very nice. i used to have an onkyo 601 receiver for years. but once i got that pioneer elite it sounded way better!

I am thinking about getting a Pioneer bluray player. i currently have a PS3. does the PS3 output HDMI 1.3 transfer Deep Colour information?

Also,
Forgive me for getting off topic but I would like some opinions. I am needing a sound system to go with my 6020. I am thinking of buying the Onkyo HT-S5100 Home theater in box (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S5100&class=Systems&p=i). Does this seem like something that will go good with my 6020 to get optimal sound quality??

Hi chadmak09,

From what I read, the HT-S5100 is a decent system; however, the HT-SP908 has more features, including DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD decoding. I have used one for about 6 months and have been quite pleased with it. I'll PM you some info as well.

KDD

I am thinking about getting a Pioneer bluray player. i currently have a PS3. does the PS3 output HDMI 1.3 transfer Deep Colour information?

Also,
Forgive me for getting off topic but I would like some opinions. I am needing a sound system to go with my 6020. I am thinking of buying the Onkyo HT-S5100 Home theater in box (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S5100&class=Systems&p=i). Does this seem like something that will go good with my 6020 to get optimal sound quality??

I have the Pioneer VSX-94TXH and I love it! I am running an 7.1 setup with Infinity Beta series speakers that I purchased off ebay (2 Beta 50s, 1 Beta C360, 2 Beta 20s and 2 Beta ES250s). I have a HSU VTF-3HO subwoofer. The whole package cost me around $3k. If you could hold off on buying a new plasma every 2 months, you could easily afford a nice audio system. ;)Video is only half of the home theater equation! I am hoping to get a 6020, but I have a baby on the way and my disposable income is being rerouted to disposable diapers. :p

i noticed the non-elites say 24p and the elites say "True 24p"
can anyone clear up what the difference is?

also could someone go into what the settings difference on the elite compared to the non-elite do briefly? mainly concerned with settings not involving a professional calibrator coming to my house.

are there any other differences between the non-elite and the elite that arn't obvious for someone who has never owned a HD TV. For example ive heard about black bars and the non elites can stretch the picture, but you have to hit a button everytime to do it, do the elites do this automatic?

It does, if there are any, and there aren't. Neither games not Blu-ray movies support Deep Colour. Games can support Deep Colour but according to a developer I asked the cost of doing so is prohibitive. So essentially Deep Colour is useless, at least for now.

This has been hashed out many times in this thread. Pioneer IS implementing an algorithm that upsamples the standard 8-bit 4:2:0 Blu-Ray data into a Deep Color (12-bit 4:4:4 space that is optimized for the KURO plasmas) realm, which can be accepted directly by a Deep Color enabled display and also passed by a Deep Color enabled HDMI 1.3 receiver. The only member who acknowledges seeing the results of this is Robert from ****************, who saw it at the Elite Dealer training session. He was very impressed.

Please do not make blanket comments like this without all of the data. For details, look at the previous comments by Robert, me, and D-nice, among others.

KDD

i noticed the non-elites say 24p and the elites say "True 24p"
can anyone clear up what the difference is?

also could someone go into what the settings difference on the elite compared to the non-elite do briefly? mainly concerned with settings not involving a professional calibrator coming to my house.

are there any other differences between the non-elite and the elite that arn't obvious for someone who has never owned a HD TV. For example ive heard about black bars and the non elites can stretch the picture, but you have to hit a button everytime to do it, do the elites do this automatic?

They both accept and display 1080p/24 at 72hz. Why the Elite brochure says "True 24 FPS" and the Standard Line doesn't, I don't know, but they did the same thing last year and both Elites and Non accepted 1080p/24.

What does the Elite have over the non-elites?
*2 year warranty instead of 1
- Improved ››Elite Color Filter for enhanced contrast in bright environments
- ISFccc Calibration Ready for professional customization of plasma ››picture according to personal preferences for contrast, tint, color as well as room conditions for both day and nighttime viewing. Includes:
Independent Gamma Control (R / G / B) for heightened color ––calibration
- Remote Control – Illuminated / Preset Mode / Learning Mode
- A/V Selection Memory – 10 options for viewing preferences:
››Optimum / Performance / Sports / Movie / PURE / Game / Standard / ISF-Day / ISF-Night / ISF-Auto (PC input: only Standard)
- Intelligent Mode (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
- Picture Detail Settings* – DRE Picture (Off / High / Mid / Low), ››Black Level (Off / On), ACL (Off / On), Enhancer Mode (1 / 2 / 3), Gamma (1 / 2 / 3)
- Color Temperature Adjustment – 5 settings (High / Mid-High / ››Mid / Mid-Low / Low)
- Color Temperature Manual Adjustment ››
- Color Management››
- Color Space (1 / 2)››
-3 DYC (Off / High / Mid / Low)››
- I-P Mode (1 / 2 / 3)
- IR Repeater
(Courtesy of Russwong)

Actually to be totally honest, This will be six TV's in the past year I have been thru (Sony KDSR60XBR1 SXRD, Samsung LNT5271F, Sony KDL52XBR4, Pioneer 5080HD, I now use the Phillips 50PFP5332D/37, and I just ordered my new PDP-6020FD). And I did not count the two DOA PDP-6010Fd's that I got and returned.
I have only been thru one pair of shoes.lol
i guess some of us are just obsessed.

For the obsessed, I would have gotten the 151 and ended my search. The return shipping on all those could have made up the difference between the Non-Elite and Elite.

This has been hashed out many times in this thread. Pioneer IS implementing an algorithm that upsamples the standard 8-bit 4:2:0 Blu-Ray data into a Deep Color (12-bit 4:4:4 space that is optimized for the KURO plasmas) realm, which can be accepted directly by a Deep Color enabled display and also passed by a Deep Color enabled HDMI 1.3 receiver. The only member who acknowledges seeing the results of this is Robert from ****************, who saw it at the Elite Dealer training session. He was very impressed.

Please do not make blanket comments like this without all of the data. For details, look at the previous comments by Robert, me, and D-nice, among others.

KDD



So will an older HDMI receiver (such as the Denon AVR-4806CI) pass this information, or only a newer HDMI 1.3 unit?

Every device in the chain must be HDMI 1.3 compliant.

For the obsessed, I would have gotten the 151 and ended my search. The return shipping on all those could have made up the difference between the Non-Elite and Elite.

The 151 is not availible yet. And none of those TV's I mentioned were return shipped. I still have the KDSR60XBR1, and the Phillips plasma.
I had the extended warranty for the KDSR60XBR1 at CC and they had a very dumb repairman come try to fix the TV. He claimed the TV was unfixable. So CC gave me a gift card for the total purchase price of the KDSR60XBR1 and I bought the LNT5271F with the gift card. Circuit city said that I should throw away the "Broken" KDSR60XBR1. But instead I had a buddy of mine who works on TV's look at it and after changing the fan out it now works just fine. It cost me 79 bucks to fix and Circuit citys repair guy said he could not fix it.lol. So I basically got a free TV.
After having the LNT5271F for about 2 weeks I carried it back to CC and traded it for the KDL52XBR4 then after seeing the Pioneer 5080 I decided to sell the XBR4 to a lady I work and use the money to buy a new 5080 at best buy. but after finding out the 9th gens were coming so soon I decided to take the 5080 back to best buy and hold out for the 6020 or Pro-151fd.
I am using a cheap phillips I got at walmart right now and will either be selling it or I might put it upstairs in the bedroom.
The 6020FD will be it for me util next year when the 10G ECC comes out.

I am thinking of buying the Onkyo HT-S5100 Home theater in box (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S5100&class=Systems&p=i). Does this seem like something that will go good with my 6020 to get optimal sound quality??

I agree with the consensus here. I believe you can piece together separates, (I'm a separates man myself) or a good receiver for not much more then the HTiB.

I'm officially have my pre-order in for the Elite 151!!! I'm excited!

D-Nice,
Could you also PM me? I live in San Diego, CA. I am looking for the 151.

I appreciate.

Could you PM me as well? I'm in SoCal and none of the dealers I went to this weekend even had a clue that the 111 was coming (probably pretending to know nothing so they can continue to sell the 110 for $500 over the MSRP of the 111 as they were trying to do with me)...

I know this is a 9G Pioneer thread, I'm hoping that since I've got a like-minded audience, you can help me... I've presently got a PRO-930HD, which I'm going to move to the bedroom once I upgrade to a new PRO-111FD.

That said, I've also got a need in the guest bedroom, problem is, the wall where it's going to be mounted only allows up to a 37" display (overall width maxes-out at ~42"). I thought I was going to get a Panny TH-37PH10UK (http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/plasmas.asp), Commercial Display (I'd be fine with 720p, particularly in a 37" PLASMA screen) but once you put the speakers on the sides, it's 44.5" wide...

I've always avoided LCD because of the grey-levels and nauseating motion blurr, but it looks like I don't have a choice... Can anyone make mfg/series (or model) recommendations for a fellow Plasma-whore that is going to have to "slum it" for an LCD because of size?

Thanks!

I know this is a 9G Pioneer thread, I'm hoping that since I've got a like-minded audience, you can help me... I've presently got a PRO-930HD, which I'm going to move to the bedroom once I upgrade to a new PRO-111FD.

That said, I've also got a need in the guest bedroom, problem is, the wall where it's going to be mounted only allows up to a 37" display (overall width maxes-out at ~42"). I thought I was going to get a Panny TH-37PH10UK (http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/plasmas.asp), Commercial Display (I'd be fine with 720p, particularly in a 37" PLASMA screen) but once you put the speakers on the sides, it's 44.5" wide...

I've always avoided LCD because of the grey-levels and nauseating motion blurr, but it looks like I don't have a choice... Can anyone make mfg/series (or model) recommendations for a fellow Plasma-whore that is going to have to "slum it" for an LCD because of size?

Thanks!

The Sammy 650s are getting very positive reviews on the forum and elsewhere. Go check one out.

I'm lucky enough to have a chance to upgrade to the 151FD and in that process, I've temp replaced my calibrated 150FD with a 6010FD. The 150FD was calibrated, while the 6010FD is using D-Nice's reference settings...

Same sources, same everything, except for the sets... not to knock the non-elites, but there is a difference that isn't quantifiable in the list of feature differences that I've posted for the various models. I don't know if it's because my 150FD was calibrated and the 6010 is using D-nices settings. I don't know if it's the Pure mode vs the User mode, but man it just doesn't look as nice.

Maybe it's one of those, once you go one way you can't go back. But, I'm a little sad I'm using the 6010 as a temporary display till the 151FDs come out, because compared to the 150, it's just not there.

Russ

According to MSN Tech & Gadgets, the Kuro is the #20 out of 100 best products of the year.


20. Pioneer Kuro PDP-5010FD (50-inch plasma HDTV, $3,500)
The Kuro's great design, vivid color and deep black levels impress us mightily. Too bad you have to take out a loan to buy one.
http://blstb.msn.com/i/17/3824B1E368395164ECEEFB8D3D371.jpg


Full list here: http://tech.msn.com/products/articlepcw.aspx?cp-documentid=7745601

I'm lucky enough to have a chance to upgrade to the 151FD and in that process, I've temp replaced my calibrated 150FD with a 6010FD. The 150FD was calibrated, while the 6010FD is using D-Nice's reference settings...

Same sources, same everything, except for the sets... not to knock the non-elites, but there is a difference that isn't quantifiable in the list of feature differences that I've posted for the various models. I don't know if it's because my 150FD was calibrated and the 6010 is using D-nices settings. I don't know if it's the Pure mode vs the User mode, but man it just doesn't look as nice.

Maybe it's one of those, once you go one way you can't go back. But, I'm a little sad I'm using the 6010 as a temporary display till the 151FDs come out, because compared to the 150, it's just not there.

Russ

ehhh.
I hate to hear something like that. Esecially since I have just ordered the 6020 instead of waiting 4 the 151fd.
But I have never had an elite so I am sure I will be happy with the 6020.
I am sure the 150 looks amazing, So how does the 6020 compare to the 150fd?

According to MSN Tech & Gadgets, the Kuro is the #20 out of 100 best products of the year.


20. Pioneer Kuro PDP-5010FD (50-inch plasma HDTV, $3,500)
The Kuro's great design, vivid color and deep black levels impress us mightily. Too bad you have to take out a loan to buy one.
http://blstb.msn.com/i/17/3824B1E368395164ECEEFB8D3D371.jpg


Full list here: http://tech.msn.com/products/articlepcw.aspx?cp-documentid=7745601

Wonder why the Pro-110fd isn't on there instead?

JimmyJunk1234567 ...
When you say "It doesn't matter from where you purchase your TV, Pioneer *will* fulfill its warranty because they know they are legally obligated to do so. They will certainly try to weasel out of it at first, but when they know you are serious about taking legal action they will buckle. I know this from experience."

Was your experience with Pioneer? Or some other company? If Pioneer, what was the situation?

Note...... the 6010 wasn't calibrated.

Don't draw conclusion when comparing a calibrated set to one that's not.

ehhh.
I hate to hear something like that. Esecially since I have just ordered the 6020 instead of waiting 4 the 151fd.
But I have never had an elite so I am sure I will be happy with the 6020.
I am sure the 150 looks amazing, So how does the 6020 compare to the 150fd?

If you are going to get a 10G anyways the way I see it is save the $1000 + and put it towards the 10G. If I get a 9G like yourself it will likely be a one year deal and go on the auction block after that for something I've been waiting to see for years, perfect black levels;).

This has been hashed out many times in this thread. Pioneer IS implementing an algorithm that upsamples the standard 8-bit 4:2:0 Blu-Ray data into a Deep Color (12-bit 4:4:4 space that is optimized for the KURO plasmas) realm, which can be accepted directly by a Deep Color enabled display and also passed by a Deep Color enabled HDMI 1.3 receiver. The only member who acknowledges seeing the results of this is Robert from ****************, who saw it at the Elite Dealer training session. He was very impressed.

Please do not make blanket comments like this without all of the data. For details, look at the previous comments by Robert, me, and D-nice, among others.

KDD

Try to read the comment I am answering before commenting on my comment. I know very well what pioneer is doing. In fact on the same page I made comment about it. What the guy was asking was PS3 specific and my answer was too.

Can someone provide a link to or information on the 10g EEC due next year. I've searched and googled in vain and just can't find anything.
Thanks, -bird

I'm lucky enough to have a chance to upgrade to the 151FD and in that process, I've temp replaced my calibrated 150FD with a 6010FD. The 150FD was calibrated, while the 6010FD is using D-Nice's reference settings...

Same sources, same everything, except for the sets... not to knock the non-elites, but there is a difference that isn't quantifiable in the list of feature differences that I've posted for the various models. I don't know if it's because my 150FD was calibrated and the 6010 is using D-nices settings. I don't know if it's the Pure mode vs the User mode, but man it just doesn't look as nice.

Maybe it's one of those, once you go one way you can't go back. But, I'm a little sad I'm using the 6010 as a temporary display till the 151FDs come out, because compared to the 150, it's just not there.

RussThe 6010 would look "redder" unless you made the SM RGB changes. Colors would and should look better on the 150FD.

It's going to be interesting to see how the 9G non-ELite stacks up against the 8G Elite.

Wonder why the Pro-110fd isn't on there instead?

$$$

Elite and non-elite 8G thoughts...
I'm lucky enough to have a chance to upgrade to the 151FD and in that process, I've temp replaced my calibrated 150FD with a 6010FD. The 150FD was calibrated, while the 6010FD is using D-Nice's reference settings...

Same sources, same everything, except for the sets... not to knock the non-elites, but there is a difference that isn't quantifiable in the list of feature differences that I've posted for the various models. I don't know if it's because my 150FD was calibrated and the 6010 is using D-nices settings. I don't know if it's the Pure mode vs the User mode, but man it just doesn't look as nice.

Maybe it's one of those, once you go one way you can't go back. But, I'm a little sad I'm using the 6010 as a temporary display till the 151FDs come out, because compared to the 150, it's just not there.
--------------------------------

Thanks for these comments, Russ. I'm sort of in the same boat, using a temp 5010 to hold me over until my 151FD arrives. O.K., it's not calibrated, but "it's just not there" compared to the stock-setting out of the box 150FD at the local store nearby. The 151FD will be my first plasma - We've been spoiled with our 2 Sony '40 HD CRTs. I can see already that SD over the air is an iffy proposition - the CRT being much more forgiving with the various source quality levels. But obviously with Blu-ray and the like, it's a whole new world.

The 151 is not availible yet. And none of those TV's I mentioned were return shipped. I still have the KDSR60XBR1, and the Phillips plasma.
I had the extended warranty for the KDSR60XBR1 at CC and they had a very dumb repairman come try to fix the TV. He claimed the TV was unfixable. So CC gave me a gift card for the total purchase price of the KDSR60XBR1 and I bought the LNT5271F with the gift card. Circuit city said that I should throw away the "Broken" KDSR60XBR1. But instead I had a buddy of mine who works on TV's look at it and after changing the fan out it now works just fine. It cost me 79 bucks to fix and Circuit citys repair guy said he could not fix it.lol. So I basically got a free TV.
After having the LNT5271F for about 2 weeks I carried it back to CC and traded it for the KDL52XBR4 then after seeing the Pioneer 5080 I decided to sell the XBR4 to a lady I work and use the money to buy a new 5080 at best buy. but after finding out the 9th gens were coming so soon I decided to take the 5080 back to best buy and hold out for the 6020 or Pro-151fd.
I am using a cheap phillips I got at walmart right now and will either be selling it or I might put it upstairs in the bedroom.
The 6020FD will be it for me util next year when the 10G ECC comes out.

If you're playing with the house's money at this point, I'd just suck it up with the XBR for a few months until the 151s come out. If money is no object, I'm not sure why you have been wasting your time with the 5080 and now the 6020. If money is a consideration, then I'm surprised you'd buy a set this year and then another next year. In any case, its your money and you can do with it whatever you please. In the meantime, you're leaving quite a set of open boxes in your wake. Given your high level of dissatisfaction with your previous sets, hope you didn't buy from an on-line dealer with a less than generous return policy.

And just like FOX news, taking the statement out of context. :rolleyes:

Or CNN, or NBC, or CBS, or ABC........:rolleyes:

Fox may be biased, but not nearly enough to tilt the scales to the right when combined with the liberal-biased media in general..

Off the soap-box now, and back to the topic at hand...

Just to clarify, you DON'T need a Pioneer receiver per se, nor a 9th generation KURO. You need a 12-bit 4:4:4 Deep Color capable display, (which both 8G and 9G Kuros are) and a receiver that passes the 12-bit 4:4:4 signal without modifications to the display. The BD player is responsible for handling the upsampling of the native 8-bit 4:2:0 data from the Blu-Ray disc and sending it onward. I've read here on the forums that either of the new Pioneer players (Elite and non-Elite) do the upsampling required.

KDD

Just wondering how to verify if my receiver passes 12-bit 4:4:4 w/o modification per this post.

I will have BDP-51FD >HDMI> Onkyo TX-SR705 >HDMI> PRO-111FD.

Or CNN, or NBC, or CBS, or ABC........:rolleyes:

Nope. Everyone knows FAUX News is in a class of its own..

russwong, I'm sure it's a combination of the Pure mode and the fact that your 150FD was ISF calibrated to your souse and room environment.

-Robert

russwong, I'm sure it's a combination of the Pure mode and the fact that your 150FD was ISF calibrated to your souse and room environment.

What kind of combination are we talkin here? 60 Pure mode / 40 ISF calibration? ;) I'd kinda like to know, because I'm still torn between the 111FD vs. 6020FD (which are about the same price point) it's hard to know if you're getting the 'Kuro' standard (best PQ) that everyone expects from the Elites with a non-Kuro, or just a good/very good PQ (akin to the 800U).

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with the 111FD for my 7ft viewing distance, I just want to make sure there is actual value for the reduction in screen size at a similar price, better understand what it is, and know if like russwong I will notice and appreciate it. (I don't plan on having the set ISF calibrated either way. I will be relying on D-Nice's hard work. Thx again D. and thanks for your posting your observations Russ!)

Waiting patently for my 151FD to arrive.