Yeah it will be interesting. While I don't think it was a color issue that I had problems with. The picture just wasn't 'as nice', looking at the same HD sources. Perhaps the temp 6010 I have is faulty, but it wasn't as crisp as either of my Elites (1140 or the 150).

Yes both are calibrated, but it's not a color issue. Anyways, I'll have the set for a little bit and we'll see if it improves. I don't want to go to the SM to adjust the RGB, because it's only a loaner.

Also, I don't know if it's just an indication of how useful a calibration might be, but it gives me something to ponder, while I wait for the 151.

Russ

The 6010 would look "redder" unless you made the SM RGB changes. Colors would and should look better on the 150FD.

It's going to be interesting to see how the 9G non-ELite stacks up against the 8G Elite.

Yeah it will be interesting. While I don't think it was a color issue that I had problems with. The picture just wasn't 'as nice', looking at the same HD sources. Perhaps the temp 6010 I have is faulty, but it wasn't as crisp as either of my Elites (1140 or the 150).

Hardware differences? software differences? Glass?

That's what I was thinking, because I remember switching to the Pure mode on the Elite pre-calibration and saying... wow this looks nice. With the 6010, I'm in the User setting with D-Nices and I'm kinda going, eh, it's okay.... I tried the movie setting too

Once again, this is just an observation. I'm sure the non-elites are great sets and the Elites are great sets too, but I thought it was interesting that so many people diminish the value down to the wohle warranty and speakers, that maybe it's more then just that...

Anyways, if I see more, I'll let you know.

russwong, I'm sure it's a combination of the Pure mode and the fact that your 150FD was ISF calibrated to your souse and room environment.

-Robert

Honestly, no idea... I'm leaning towards the Pure mode. Even my calibrated 7G Elite looked better. I wasn't looking at black levels either. Just looking at picture clarity and wow factor... Just looking at an HD broadcast and going, hmm that looks nice vs hmm that should look nicer.

Could be a bad 6010 for all I know.

Hardware differences? software differences? Glass?

If you're playing with the house's money at this point, I'd just suck it up with the XBR for a few months until the 151s come out. If money is no object, I'm not sure why you have been wasting your time with the 5080 and now the 6020. If money is a consideration, then I'm surprised you'd buy a set this year and then another next year. In any case, its your money and you can do with it whatever you please. In the meantime, you're leaving quite a set of open boxes in your wake. Given your high level of dissatisfaction with your previous sets, hope you didn't buy from an on-line dealer with a less than generous return policy.

The 6020 is going to be it for me until next year. At that time I willl auction off the 6020 online.
And my "high level of dissatisfaction" as you said was only with the LCD's.
In the beginning I thought that LCD was the best. That is until I saw a Kuro in action. That is why I returned/sold both the 71F and the XBR4.
Its been a long hard road but I have found my home with the Kuro. :)

The 6020 is going to be it for me until next year. At that time I willl auction off the 6020 online.
And my "high level of dissatisfaction" as you said was only with the LCD's.
In the beginning I thought that LCD was the best. That is until I saw a Kuro in action. That is why I returned/sold both the 71F and the XBR4.
Its been a long hard road but I have found my home with the Kuro. :)

then I'd shoot for the top either this year or next and sit back and enjoy the set with a cool brew for a few years ... and stop reading these forums ... advice I haven't taken myself yet ...

$$$

If you actually read the article it says that price was not considered in their ratings.

could someone please help answer me two questions:

[1] what exactly is Pioneer's dead pixel policy for the 6010?

[2] if I do not break in a 6010, will it produce a worse picture after, say, 500 hours? (In other words, is the break-in just so that the initial quality turns out to be better sooner?).

thanks, guys.

/iaw

could someone please help answer me two questions:

[1] what exactly is Pioneer's dead pixel policy for the 6010?

[2] if I do not break in a 6010, will it produce a worse picture after, say, 500 hours? (In other words, is the break-in just so that the initial quality turns out to be better sooner?).

thanks, guys.

/iaw

10 Pixels or 30 cells but I have seen them replace for less it just depends on different variables
I dont think that by not breakin in your Plasma you will have a worse picture. Its just recommended.

I got a call today that my 151 will be shipped on June 24th and in store the 26th for me to pickup.

Hope it holds true

AHHH the excitment of it all

Buy the house man, the sooner you buy a house the sooner you are investing in equity. Rent is a waste of money....the sooner in life you can buy a house the better. Hey don't get me wrong, TVs are a great thing and these Pioneers are something special, but this is a luxury item. Buy a house now, markets are down and you can always do a 2 year equal payments no interest deal on a TV later on if it's too tough to save up 4 or 5 grand cash. I bought my house the first chance I got and in 4 years I will be 33 years old with no mortgage.


If its to "tough" to save up 4-5 grand cash then you have no business buying a house. Housing market is in the toilet and will remain there for years because of no doc loans, no money down, not to mention and the huge discrepancy between salaries and house prices. Rent is a waste of money? I pay $1000/month rent, meanwhile the people who "own" the place are paying $2200/month in mortgage,HOA,taxes. Meanwhile the place is depreciating in value about 10K per month. Maybe you have not noticed but real estate does not always go up. The advice you gave above is horrible. There are a number of different factors that you look at when deciding to rent or buy.

The Sammy 650s are getting very positive reviews on the forum and elsewhere. Go check one out.

Unfortunately, the Sammy 650s don't come in a 37", only 32" (which would work, but be smaller than I have room for) or 40" (which is on the ragged edge of being too big for the wall space)...

If its to "tough" to save up 4-5 grand cash then you have no business buying a house. Housing market is in the toilet and will remain there for years because of no doc loans, no money down, not to mention and the huge discrepancy between salaries and house prices. Rent is a waste of money? I pay $1000/month rent, meanwhile the people who "own" the place are paying $2200/month in mortgage,HOA,taxes. Meanwhile the place is depreciating in value about 10K per month. Maybe you have not noticed but real estate does not always go up. The advice you gave above is horrible. There are a number of different factors that you look at when deciding to rent or buy.

rougebear....Dude, don't you think it would be prudent to find out where he was considering purchasing the home. Some markets are doing just fine and will continue to do so. I'm not saying it's good or bad advice...just that you can't possibly know either and your blanket statement is ridiculus. Heck, even here not even fifty miles from downtrodden Detroit are markets that haven't felt any pinch at all and at worst have stayed stable....admittedly not gaining in value, but you gotta live somewhere....lol.

IF the real estate market does stay in the toilet for years, as you put it. It will NOT be due to no doc loans or any other stupid lending practices....It WILL be because our own Government is rapidly selling us down the river and eliminating the middle class in this country. Let them pass Kyoto or any thing that closely resembles it and the ultimate goal of the Elites will have been acheived. A two class society with one controlling the other. The lower class thankful for the kind and plentiful handouts given them from cradle to grave. Franklin had it right, what did he say...."Heres your Republic, if you can keep it"!

remember one mans misfortune in real estate is often another's gain.....unfortunate, but true.


Sorry for the rant......I'm gonna go watch my 5080 and calm down....lol

chad i everyone agrees that mone better spent would be to buy each speaker then a htib and you get better sound.


Forgive me for getting off topic but I would like some opinions. I am needing a sound system to go with my 6020. I am thinking of buying the Onkyo HT-S5100 Home theater in box (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S5100&class=Systems&p=i). Does this seem like something that will go good with my 6020 to get optimal sound quality??

iwakuni you would want to ask Robert or D-nice as he knows which type of reflection is on the 9g kuros

I have a very large window that will be behind where I plan to place my flat screen. I have been visiting and reading the pio and panny forums trying to decide which panel will handle the ambient light the best. I have shades that can be pulled; however, during midday the light is still fairly intense. Will the 5020 with its sensor that adjusts the picture for ambient light affect the picture so as to nullify the difference between the 800 and 5020?

I got a call today that my 151 will be shipped on June 24th and in store the 26th for me to pickup.

Hope it holds true

AHHH the excitment of it all


Also are the PRO-151 arent those long away time from being avaiable? a member said that hes will have it deliverd soon?

I got a call today that my 151 will be shipped on June 24th and in store the 26th for me to pickup.

Hope it holds true

AHHH the excitment of it all

hey where is the ir sensor on the 6020 so i know where to put my center speaker?

i also have the pioneer elite vsx92 with bowers and wilkins speakers. it sounds very nice. i used to have an onkyo 601 receiver for years. but once i got that pioneer elite it sounded way better!


VSX82 here with B&W 805's across the front. Very nice combo.


bob

hey how high should the plasma be if i am about 10-12 feet away?

I pay $1000/month rent, meanwhile the people who "own" the place are paying $2200/month in mortgage,HOA,taxes.


You forget that the interest AND property tax is deductible. So not only are you not getting equity, you're getting killed on income tax compared to the home owner. That $2200 is ALOT closer to your $1000 than you think.


Meanwhile the place is depreciating in value about 10K per month. Maybe you have not noticed but real estate does not always go up.

And some of that depreciation will correct itself. Real estate always goes up in the long run. Unless a nuclear power plant melts down nearby, or a sink hole opens up and swallows your house, your property will appreciate. Market fluctuations happen with everything.

I just posted pics in the 9G non-Elite owners thread and my initial thoughts. One word, amazing! Check it out.

-kkgsxr

So I'm trying to get my home ready for the arrival of my 9G Kuro. My A/V custom installer is trying to push component video on me for the wiring between the receiver and the tv since it is more reliable than HDMI (and is also already behind the walls so we wouldn't need to run more wiring) but I really think I'd be doing the Kuro a disservice with component.

I'm trying to ensure that the A/V components will play nice before putting the wire behind the wall. If I use the actual HDMI wire that will go behind the wall and connect the receiver to the TV and it works am I good to go, or could adding another component to the receiver (blu-ray or cable box) possibly break the handshake?

Also is it a better idea to run two HDMI cables behind the walls (in case one doesn't work), or is it more about the components and less about the cable (I'll probably use the high end HDMI cable from Blue Jeans btw).

Any thoughts would be appreciated. My CI is willing to accommodate my requests for HDMI (I am paying the bill after all), but they are very concerned about using HDMI as in their experience components are incredibly reliable and their clients say that the HD picture looks great.

Well you're gonna lose 1080p over component due to the HDCP requirements. New players will only output 1080i over component.

and componet is analog it will degrade overtime hdmi is sharper more detail its better.

Run HDMI hands down. I just hooked up the 6020 to an HDMI 1.2 receiver without an issue.

-kkgsxr

Run HDMI hands down. I just hooked up the 6020 to an HDMI 1.2 receiver without an issue.

-kkgsxr

But based on your pictures you probably got away with a 3-6 ft cable. I need to run a 20-30 ft cable and it will be behind a wall so if there are any issues it will be a much bigger deal.

I'm still planning on going with HDMI, but I want to know what steps I can take to ensure that the stuff works before I put the wire behind the wall.

But based on your pictures you probably got away with a 3-6 ft cable. I need to run a 20-30 ft cable and it will be behind a wall so if there are any issues it will be a much bigger deal.

I'm still planning on going with HDMI, but I want to know what steps I can take to ensure that the stuff works before I put the wire behind the wall.


OH MAN if anything since you're running that long of a cable THEN IT MAKES all the sense to get digital, since componet is analog its OK and barely ok for short distince. and because if digital hdmi run a great risk in loosing quality over distince then what is to say of a componet????....

dont spend crazy money on monster of course but run proper wiring for longer distince

Is there an operating manual for the 151 posted anywhere yet? If so, can someone post a link? Thank you!

Yeah, I can't believe everyone is getting their 9G Kuro and yet we don't have PDF manuals yet.

But based on your pictures you probably got away with a 3-6 ft cable. I need to run a 20-30 ft cable and it will be behind a wall so if there are any issues it will be a much bigger deal.

I'm still planning on going with HDMI, but I want to know what steps I can take to ensure that the stuff works before I put the wire behind the wall.


For doing long HDMI runs you can put adapters on both ends and run CAT5 too. Not sure thats necessary with 20 ft. but its an option.

Can Cat5e do 1080P and is there any disadvantage (other than possible cost) to using that vs. an actual HDMI cable?

hey how high should the plasma be if i am about 10-12 feet away? How far away you are from a screen does not have much to do with the height. However hang the unit so little ones can not reach and the handmans' screwdriver in the back pocket can not scratch the screen, bottom of the unit should be 40" of the floor. That is where we hang them.

Can Cat5e do 1080P and is there any disadvantage (other than possible cost) to using that vs. an actual HDMI cable?

The problem is that players won't output 1080p on anything other than HDMI.

The problem is that players won't output 1080p on anything other than HDMI.

Even if cat5e is terminated with HDMI?

I'm still planning on going with HDMI, but I want to know what steps I can take to ensure that the stuff works before I put the wire behind the wall.You should be ok with HDMI at 20'-30'.

Can you test the cable with your gear before you put it in the wall?

Can you install PCB so that you can pull new calbe in the future?

Have you visited the "do it your self home theater contruction" forum here at AVS?

You should be ok with HDMI at 20'-30'.

Can you test the cable with your gear before you put it in the wall?

Can you install PCB so that you can pull new calbe in the future?

Have you visited the "do it your self home theater contruction" forum here at AVS?

No I can't do most of those things. The walls are already up and it is a very high end home so I don't want to do any of this myself. I'm hoping an experienced electrician can fish the wire through and if not then we'll make a few small cuts.

I'm hoping to test the equipment first with the HDMI wire but I may need to get it in the wall before I have all the equipment. Are there sometimes problems with the wire itself that it would make sense to run two (one as a backup) or if it doesn't work is it more a handshaking issue with two components?

I don't mind spending the extra money on getting a second cable in there but I don't know if that is pointless to do.

I'm hoping to test the equipment first with the HDMI wire but I may need to get it in the wall before I have all the equipment.Then you need some other way to test any cable that you are putting into a wall.

Are there sometimes problems with the wire itself that it would make sense to run two (one as a backup)No matter what kind of wire you put in your wall, it can be bad when installed. I don't think good wire fails after installation unless you drive a nail through it. :eek:

Ask the guys who are building their own theaters. They are the ones with the best experience. ;)

or if it doesn't work is it more a handshaking issue with two components?Equipment problems can be dealt with at either end of the cable so that's not the same kind of trouble.

Got it.

I guess you are recommending that I hook up the cable I buy before putting it in the wall just to make sure that it works. I'll certainly do that even if I don't have my final equipment I do have HDMI components and TVs. Assuming that I can pass video and audio through that cable I guess it is good to go in the wall.

ks-man

As much a pain as it might be, put a run of PVC pipe from your components to your display. You won't believe how often people (including myself) thought they had it all figured out to discover that specifications change or HDMI for some reason just won't work.

I got a call today that my 151 will be shipped on June 24th and in store the 26th for me to pickup.

Hope it holds true

AHHH the excitment of it all

What store did you buy it from? Tweeter? There's a chance that I might get mine about the same time too. But I would not expect a call till at least a couple weeks or so.

I guess you are recommending that I hook up the cable I buy before putting it in the wall just to make sure that it works.That's what good professionals would do.

I'll certainly do that even if I don't have my final equipment I do have HDMI components and TVs.A working cable shouldn't fail. Just be sure you have a quality cable.

Assuming that I can pass video and audio through that cable I guess it is good to go in the wall.Do you plan on using the display's speakers? Many people never attach the speakers to their Kuro displays.

Is your professional installer the one who did a "hard" install of your component cable in the wall?

Is there some reason why you couldn't use the component cable that's already in the wall until you've tested all your new equipment with a HDMI cable? Doing it in that order will allow you to see for yourself if digital looks better than analog. It will also let you do a cost analysis for running the cable. The cable itself seems to be the cheapest part of the project.

Using the existing component cables would be simpler for the installer. Maybe that's why he prefers them.

There are custom installers that avoid HDMI for whole house setups, but your run is not very long, and it involves only one cable.

Also are the PRO-151 arent those long away time from being avaiable? a member said that hes will have it deliverd soon?

There will be some in VERY limited numbers about that time. Those with very early pre-orders and (at least in my case) a down payment, will be on the list to get their first shipments. I know I am so there's a chance I could be getting mine about the same time.

Otherwise, later July and very early Aug would be about right.

There will be some in VERY limited numbers about that time. Those with very early pre-orders and (at least in my case) a down payment, will be on the list to get their first shipments. I know I am so there's a chance I could be getting mine about the same time.

Otherwise, later July and very early Aug would be about right.

what about the PRO-111FD? does bestbuy have priority from pio considering they are their big bank?

what about the PRO-111FD? does bestbuy have priority from pio considering they are their big bank?


Sorry, I do not know about the PRO-111FD and/or Best Buy availability. I do know from reading this forum, the 20 series in the 60" and 50" will be first, followed by the Elite series (generally late July early Aug) and then the other series (monitor only) September?

Then you have to keep in mind (as far as what I've read in these forums) is Pioneer generally ships towards the end of the month. So if your expecting something, it will more likely arrive around the end of one of the following months or very early of the following months.

i was thinking about the bottom of the tv being at 24 inches.

What store did you buy it from? Tweeter? There's a chance that I might get mine about the same time too. But I would not expect a call till at least a couple weeks or so.

Yes Pre-ordered from Tweeter begining of May which seems like yrs ago now.

Yes Pre-ordered from Tweeter on May 3rd which seems like yrs ago now.

would you happend to know if they'll have the PRO-111FD anytime soon?

btw im not ignoring the last poster i just would like to know if tweeter is on based too

hey how high should the plasma be if i am about 10-12 feet away?

Ideally, you should have the midway height of the screen at eye height when seated. You could go higher at that distance. It is better to not go much higher than the bottom of the screen at eye height.

and componet is analog it will degrade overtime hdmi is sharper more detail its better.

Not true. Component will not degrade over time.

would you happend to know if they'll have the PRO-111FD anytime soon?

btw im not ignoring the last poster i just would like to know if tweeter is on based too

Sorry I'm not sure. I'm sure if you call them they can let you know. If you dont get anywhere let me know and I will call my local store and find out

So I'm trying to get my home ready for the arrival of my 9G Kuro. My A/V custom installer is trying to push component video on me for the wiring between the receiver and the tv since it is more reliable than HDMI (and is also already behind the walls so we wouldn't need to run more wiring) but I really think I'd be doing the Kuro a disservice with component.

I'm trying to ensure that the A/V components will play nice before putting the wire behind the wall. If I use the actual HDMI wire that will go behind the wall and connect the receiver to the TV and it works am I good to go, or could adding another component to the receiver (blu-ray or cable box) possibly break the handshake?

Also is it a better idea to run two HDMI cables behind the walls (in case one doesn't work), or is it more about the components and less about the cable (I'll probably use the high end HDMI cable from Blue Jeans btw).

Any thoughts would be appreciated. My CI is willing to accommodate my requests for HDMI (I am paying the bill after all), but they are very concerned about using HDMI as in their experience components are incredibly reliable and their clients say that the HD picture looks great.

In a later post you said your run is around 20' which is not all that long. If you get a good quality hdmi cable you will have no issues. I would check the cable before installing in the wall ideally with the equipment you will be using it. Keep the ends protected as you drag it through the wall.

There are still way to many issues with hdmi handshakes and it is good you already have a component cable in place. You may need it at some point. Component is an excellent video connection and with a properly shielded quality cable you can easily do runs of 50' and get a pristine HD image.

If cost is no issue, I would definitely put in at least 2 hdmi cables. You may want to directly connect something to the TV without passing through your receiver. Such as a PC.

As others have said. Though it may be a pain to do now, it would be much better to run a PVC conduit so you can change wires at will later.

One thought often overlooked for routing your new wire. Tie two STRONG pieces of string to your component cable and then use your component cable to pull through the string. Then use the string to pull through your component then the hdmi. Pull a third piece of string for the future.

I have 3 hdmi and 1 component running to an empty space above my fireplace ... waiting for a plasma. I used Central Vacuum tubing (2" diameter) as conduit.

Ideally, you should have the midway height of the screen at eye height when seated. You could go higher at that distance. It is better to not go much higher than the bottom of the screen at eye height.

Now this is confusing. The 40" to the bottom of the TV quoted by Chris from Cleveland Plasma is right about eye height or not too much off. I agree with centering the set at the eyesight, but at the same time that's gonna be too low on a wall to protect the TV. Being that low would seemingly work better on an A/V stand which naturally provides floorspace clearance from the front of the set. It also seems that the further you're seated from the TV, the less you'll notice a TV positioned above the center of your eyesight. Having a two year old and another on the way, I'm inclined to go with the 40" height since I'll be wall mounting, though I have yet to demo wall position with a cardboard cut-out.

Now this is confusing. The 40" to the bottom of the TV quoted by Chris from Cleveland Plasma is right about eye height or not too much off. I agree with centering the set at the eyesight, but at the same time that's gonna be too low on a wall to protect the TV. Being that low would seemingly work better on an A/V stand which naturally provides floorspace clearance from the front of the set. It also seems that the further you're seated from the TV, the less you'll notice a TV positioned above the center of your eyesight. Having a two year old and another on the way, I'm inclined to go with the 40" height since I'll be wall mounting, though I have yet to demo wall position with a cardboard cut-out.

As I said centered on eye height is IDEAL but you COULD go higher. A two year old would be a good reason :)

If you put the bottom of the screen at eye height you should be happy from 10' to 12' distant. Have someone measure it while you are sitting. Clearly it varies from couch to couch and torso to torso,..... but seated eye height is usually in the 38" to 45" range.

kyler13,

With small children in the house, protecting your display overides the need to have it at its ideal height. Put it where it won't be damaged.

As this is my first post (and new to home theater), let me start by saying I’m wowed with the wealth of information on this site – even though much of it is (admittedly) over my head. Thanks to posters here, my wife and I have met with Robert and Wendy this past weekend and are eagerly waiting their proposal for home theater system project that I should be done with in mid-August with a 151 at its heart. Grazie mille!

Is there an operating manual for the 151 posted anywhere yet? If so, can someone post a link? Thank you!
I was wondering this too. Usually, I'd download PDF manuals from the website, but the Pioneer website makes no mention any of the 9G Kuros in their listed plasma displays. I’d think that if they’re shipping 9Gs, the website (and PDFs) would be updated. Is this lag in updating the site/PDF manuals normal for Pioneer?...

D-Nice,

I am eagerly awaiting your 5020 vs. 800U shootout. As I mentioned before, I had the 800U for 12 days and really struggled about whether to return it or not as it is pretty darn good. I did return it as I wanted to make the 5020/800U decision after the reviews of both are in.

I did have a thought/question for you. My 800U definitely got better over the course of the 12 days. I assume this is break-in related. My question for you: Is your shoot-out going to be done on broken-in 5020 and 800U or fresh out of the box? I think fresh out of the box is not 100% valid.

Thanks again for all your insightful posts!

Not true. Component will not degrade over time.

It's also not really what I'd consider "analog" -- it's a digital signal embedded in an analog carrier (much like the VGA outputs used for CRT computer monitors). With a good setup, you should get the same output quality from either HDMI or component.

The downside is that long runs of cable, bad cables, a defective or poorly-designed device on either end, or a noisy electrical environment can all mess with a component signal. With HDMI, if it works at all you'll get out the exact data that was put in.

D-Nice,

I am eagerly awaiting your 5020 vs. 800U shootout. As I mentioned before, I had the 800U for 12 days and really struggled about whether to return it or not as it is pretty darn good. I did return it as I wanted to make the 5020/800U decision after the reviews of both are in.

I did have a thought/question for you. My 800U definitely got better over the course of the 12 days. I assume this is break-in related. My question for you: Is your shoot-out going to be done on broken-in 5020 and 800U or fresh out of the box? I think fresh out of the box is not 100% valid.

Thanks again for all your insightful posts!

He has already stated he would do it after the 150 hour break in.

Hey All, I just bought the 5010, although think I will return for the G9 when it hits, and when I am changing channels that go from different resolutions (480, 720, 1080) the screen goes to like a digital "goobly gook" of black with digital lines of color in it then the channel comes in. Hard to explain, but happens every time the resolution changes in channel changes. I have Time Warner Cable hooked up with HDMI. It does not do this when using Ant. A with direct feed from cable box. However, the HDMI is much better picture so do not want to use the Ant A. Switched out the cable box to see if this was the issue and it still happens. Is this normal. Any ideas? Thanks

Did I read in an earlier post that the 151FD is being delivered in late June? Is that possible? Didn't read much talk about it after that post.

Hey All, I just bought the 5010, although think I will return for the G9 when it hits, and when I am changing channels that go from different resolutions (480, 720, 1080) the screen goes to like a digital "goobly gook" of black with digital lines of color in it then the channel comes in. Hard to explain, but happens every time the resolution changes in channel changes. I have Time Warner Cable hooked up with HDMI. It does not do this when using Ant. A with direct feed from cable box. However, the HDMI is much better picture so do not want to use the Ant A. Switched out the cable box to see if this was the issue and it still happens. Is this normal. Any ideas? Thanks


I'm pretty sure that's normal via hdmi because of the digital "handshake" that has to take place between your cable box and your tv. I believe it has something to do with the hdcp (high def copy protection) that is required in the hdmi standard. Others will know more about this I'm sure, but that's the way I understand it.

Hey All, I just bought the 5010, although think I will return for the G9 when it hits, and when I am changing channels that go from different resolutions (480, 720, 1080) the screen goes to like a digital "goobly gook" of black with digital lines of color in it then the channel comes in. Hard to explain, but happens every time the resolution changes in channel changes. I have Time Warner Cable hooked up with HDMI. It does not do this when using Ant. A with direct feed from cable box. However, the HDMI is much better picture so do not want to use the Ant A. Switched out the cable box to see if this was the issue and it still happens. Is this normal. Any ideas? Thanks

1. Turn off autoscale if you haven't already
2. Try sending a component signal to the TV from your cable box
3. If this really bothers you, let the cable box do the scaling instead of the TV (not prefered) by resetting the NATIVE setting on the receiver.

I have a similar problem with the Direct TV HR21 receiver and was not sure if the problem was with the Pio or receiver. Especially obnoxious going from HD to SD. Seems the Pio tries to rescale the picture before actually receiving the signal. While it may be normal in terms of occurance (try telling that to a visitor), this seems like a problem Pio should clear up - given it happens with more than one receiver - like don't try to rescale the old picture with the scaling of the new picture, until the set is ready to display the new picture. Would be interesting to note if the 9Gs are any better with respect to this problem.

With HDMI, if it works at all you'll get out the exact data that was put in.

What about the possibility of "sparkles/sparklies" in various combinations of longer runs and less than ideal HDMI cables? In this case, it "works", but the signal has been degraded, true or not true?

Does (will) the 151 have an rs-232 port?

I had a question regarding the 5020/6020 bottom mount speaker and the internal speaker amp on the TV. I think I want to remove it (would rather have the side speakers like the elites) and I'm wondering how well the Pio would drive my small L/R satellites for a home theater set up. Here's what I'm thinking: I want to wall mount the TV and run the wiring in the wall. I'm also going to get a new 5-speaker system (small satellites) and wall mount them, again running the wiring in the walls, so everything has a floating effect. I was thinking of getting an A/B switch for the front L/R speakers to share them with the TV and my receiver. Why you ask? Because when the wife is home during the day, she won't want to mess around with having to turn on the receiver with the TV just to get sound. This way, I can switch control when we're watching a movie where we want to use the surround sound.

It's going to be interesting to see how the 9G non-ELite stacks up against the 8G Elite.

+1.

Can't wait to see your conclusion/observations...

Have your cable installer run them both. Run all the possible cables you will need from your TV, including S-Video, HDMI, Component, Optical, in multiple quantities if you have the connections. Why wouldn't you? The cost for the cable from monoprice is insignificant if you think about the hassle of having to run it later.

I have both component (2) and hdmi (3) going to my set. I also have vga and s-video, that are tucked away in case I need them. The wall isn't going to blow up if you have them in there...


So I'm trying to get my home ready for the arrival of my 9G Kuro. My A/V custom installer is trying to push component video on me for the wiring between the receiver and the tv since it is more reliable than HDMI (and is also already behind the walls so we wouldn't need to run more wiring) but I really think I'd be doing the Kuro a disservice with component.

I'm trying to ensure that the A/V components will play nice before putting the wire behind the wall. If I use the actual HDMI wire that will go behind the wall and connect the receiver to the TV and it works am I good to go, or could adding another component to the receiver (blu-ray or cable box) possibly break the handshake?

Also is it a better idea to run two HDMI cables behind the walls (in case one doesn't work), or is it more about the components and less about the cable (I'll probably use the high end HDMI cable from Blue Jeans btw).

Any thoughts would be appreciated. My CI is willing to accommodate my requests for HDMI (I am paying the bill after all), but they are very concerned about using HDMI as in their experience components are incredibly reliable and their clients say that the HD picture looks great.

No problems running a 30' HDMI cable with out adapters. Also have them run an extra string so you can pull another cable in the future if you needed to. Trust me, been there done that before.

But based on your pictures you probably got away with a 3-6 ft cable. I need to run a 20-30 ft cable and it will be behind a wall so if there are any issues it will be a much bigger deal.

I'm still planning on going with HDMI, but I want to know what steps I can take to ensure that the stuff works before I put the wire behind the wall.

Anybody else sitting around wondering when D-Nice received the 9g set and how soon 150 hrs break in will end?

Hey All, I just bought the 5010, although think I will return for the G9 when it hits, and when I am changing channels that go from different resolutions (480, 720, 1080) the screen goes to like a digital "goobly gook" of black with digital lines of color in it then the channel comes in. Hard to explain, but happens every time the resolution changes in channel changes. I have Time Warner Cable hooked up with HDMI. It does not do this when using Ant. A with direct feed from cable box. However, the HDMI is much better picture so do not want to use the Ant A. Switched out the cable box to see if this was the issue and it still happens. Is this normal. Any ideas? Thanks

That happened to me when I first hooked my HR21 to my Kuro. What I did was select "Native" on the HR21 and 1080i only. Then switched the color from gray to black. Now there's no lag between channels, including going from HD to SD.

Anybody else sitting around wondering when D-Nice received the 9g set and how soon 150 hrs break in will end?

I believe he said that he was going to get it by the 10th and tweaked by the 14th.

What about the possibility of "sparkles/sparklies" in various combinations of longer runs and less than ideal HDMI cables? In this case, it "works", but the signal has been degraded, true or not true?

Maybe it's more accurate to say that if the signal is making it through the HDMI cables above some minimum threshold, the data will be intact. You can still have signal loss/interference even with "digital" signals, which can manifest as a variety of problems (often nasty digital artifacting and/or dropped frames.)

With a protocol like YPbPr component or VGA, you can have problems where, say, one part of the signal is delayed relative to the others, or your voltage levels (which get directly mapped back to color values) have been crushed or offset by EMI. So you might get a picture that seems to be coming through fine (it has the right resolution/timings), but the pixels you get out are messed up in some way. That won't happen with a digital signal -- but you might not get some pixels or frames at all!

Because digital signalling protocols like HDMI, Ethernet, Firewire, etc. are largely immune to electromagnetic noise, usually it's either going to work 100% or not work at all. But it is possible to have an intermittent problem, especially if there is bad hardware somewhere in the signal path.

anyone know yet when bestbuy will start carrying the 9gs so we can look at them first?

anyone know yet when bestbuy will start carrying the 9gs so we can look at them first?

Why would you want to look at them first? lol :) Kidding, I would guess by the end of the month.

What I did was select "Native" on the HR21 and 1080i only.

I don't understand this setting. Doesn't setting the receiver to pass only 1080i override the command to send a native signal (480i 480p 768p 1080i) to the Pio for processing?

I agree the blips don't occur with this setting but I'm not convinced that the Pio is doing the processing on all material with this combination of settings.

Anyone know the answer to this? I didn't see it on the cut sheet. Just wondering about length and width the stand will take up on my shelf.
Thanks,

Pioneer PDP-LX6090: (review)

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7136516&postcount=296

Why would you want to look at them first? lol :) Kidding, I would guess by the end of the month.

yeah i just want to look at one first before i pay about 4000 dollars!

I'm planning to buy my first plasma very soon, and have narrowed it down to a non-Elite Kuro. My dilemma right now is 8G versus 9G.

Quantatively I know the difference in specs, but since the 8G's are being offered at fire sale prices now (see the Costco threads) I'm wondering how much the half-G price difference is going to get me from a subjective enjoyment standpoint. I realize that this may be a question that can only be answered after a few more folks have their 9G's, so I hope I'm not premature with this question.

Also - I know it's subjective. I'm just wondering about people's OPINIONS on whether slightly better blacks, thinner panel, networking, etc are going to be worth it.

Thanks!

I don't understand this setting. Doesn't setting the receiver to pass only 1080i override the command to send a native signal (480i 480p 768p 1080i) to the Pio for processing?

I agree the blips don't occur with this setting but I'm not convinced that the Pio is doing the processing on all material with this combination of settings.

This seemed to be the best, glitch free setting for me.

With this setting, the Pioneer is not doing the processing for all signals. But it's a small sacrifice for glitch free channel changing.

Also - I know it's subjective. I'm just wondering about people's OPINIONS on whether slightly better blacks, thinner panel, networking, etc are going to be worth it.

Yes.

I'm planning to buy my first plasma very soon, and have narrowed it down to a non-Elite Kuro. My dilemma right now is 8G versus 9G.

Quantatively I know the difference in specs, but since the 8G's are being offered at fire sale prices now (see the Costco threads) I'm wondering how much the half-G price difference is going to get me from a subjective enjoyment standpoint. I realize that this may be a question that can only be answered after a few more folks have their 9G's, so I hope I'm not premature with this question.

Also - I know it's subjective. I'm just wondering about people's OPINIONS on whether slightly better blacks, thinner panel, networking, etc are going to be worth it.

Thanks!

Without comparing the 8G vs 9G in person, if I didn't care about the Home Media Gallery (which I do, personally), I would probably buy the 8G locally to give me more return options and save the $500.

I've just canceled my order with Costco for PDP5010. because I've already got my 6020. The price difference is not that much considering I've got bigger screen, blacker black and home networking features. I believe my money is well spent.

Without comparing the 8G vs 9G in person, if I didn't care about the Home Media Gallery (which I do, personally), I would probably buy the 8G locally to give me more return options and save the $500.

I'm actually leaning this way currently. I have an Xbox 360, a PS3, and a Squeezebox. The last thing I need is yet another way to get content onto my display ;)

For me, the only tangible benefit seems to be better blacks, unless there's something I'm missing.

I've just canceled my order with Costco for PDP5010. because I've already got my 6020. The price difference is not that much considering I've got bigger screen, blacker black and home networking features. I believe my money is well spent.

Thats a good choice. Even though you paid the extra mile, it will be worth it.

Chris

cydog well i dont have a tweeter anywhere near me i just wanted to know if they knew anything because sometimes i travel and can do the purchase around the states that surround me

Sorry I'm not sure. I'm sure if you call them they can let you know. If you dont get anywhere let me know and I will call my local store and find out

gregdpw mid june on the 9g non elite, for me i have to wait anyways to get employee discount on the PRO-111FD

anyone know yet when bestbuy will start carrying the 9gs so we can look at them first?

tebling i was told by robert and d-nice that the 9g will be better i wont get much into the question but why did you rule out the elite?

I'm planning to buy my first plasma very soon, and have narrowed it down to a non-Elite Kuro. My dilemma right now is 8G versus 9G.

Quantatively I know the difference in specs, but since the 8G's are being offered at fire sale prices now (see the Costco threads) I'm wondering how much the half-G price difference is going to get me from a subjective enjoyment standpoint. I realize that this may be a question that can only be answered after a few more folks have their 9G's, so I hope I'm not premature with this question.

Also - I know it's subjective. I'm just wondering about people's OPINIONS on whether slightly better blacks, thinner panel, networking, etc are going to be worth it.

Thanks!

tebling i was told by robert and d-nice that the 9g will be better i wont get much into the question but why did you rule out the elite?

Price / WAF

I had a question regarding the 5020/6020 bottom mount speaker and the internal speaker amp on the TV. I think I want to remove it (would rather have the side speakers like the elites) and I'm wondering how well the Pio would drive my small L/R satellites for a home theater set up. Here's what I'm thinking: I want to wall mount the TV and run the wiring in the wall. I'm also going to get a new 5-speaker system (small satellites) and wall mount them, again running the wiring in the walls, so everything has a floating effect. I was thinking of getting an A/B switch for the front L/R speakers to share them with the TV and my receiver. Why you ask? Because when the wife is home during the day, she won't want to mess around with having to turn on the receiver with the TV just to get sound. This way, I can switch control when we're watching a movie where we want to use the surround sound.

The 5020 and 6020 have HDMI-CEC control. So, if you have a compliant receiver, the 5020/6020 will turn the receiver on and off. That makes for the best of both worlds: Your wife can't complain and you have the surround sound system active any time the PDP is on.

Not sure if this has been asked already but will these 9G displays have up-dated front glass that is "touch-proof" (similiar to the Panasonic's)?

dont quote me on this but i belive it does not simply because d-nice said its the screen is fragil and its a known fact that pioneer did not add to the screen any stuff to affect the picture quality. so i dont think it has any touch proof or such matirials and im glad it doesnt because it would affect picture quality,

keep in mind that if you have a HT or a nice tv you would set it up where kids wont get near it via wall mount or off limit area...

Not sure if this has been asked already but will these 9G displays have up-dated front glass that is "touch-proof" (similiar to the Panasonic's)?

Pioneer PDP-LX6090: (review)

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7136516&postcount=296

I read the review and I'm still trying to figure out whether they thought it was a significant improvement over the 8g or not. After words like "Pyatipozitsionny", "vysokochetky" and "slitnosti" (I think they have medications for the last one), my head began to spin. :D

I read the review and I'm still trying to figure out whether they thought it was a significant improvement over the 8g or not. After words like "Pyatipozitsionny", "vysokochetky" and "slitnosti" (I think they have medications for the last one), my head began to spin. :D

What part of "The company Pioneer with the new ruler again surpassed itself: TV 9 - Series show even better than 8 - th Speaking on the same day today, note fact: TV Pioneer 9 - the first generation really visibly different from earlier the better and can once again claim the title of the best samples of technology. The cost of new models of television companies are usually not too much different from last year. So the question of whether to wait for the emergence of stalls shops Seri H09, is defined exit date only ruler in our market. If you have patience, is to use them - a reward would be generous." don't you understand?? ;););):D I feel like I just got lost in an IKEA.

Does anyone know the exact measurements for the Pro-151? I received my wallmount and plan on trying to do a mock up this weekend and realized it would help if I had the actually measurements. I have been using the 150s but I believe the 151 is slightly different. Thanks!

Did I read in an earlier post that the 151FD is being delivered in late June? Is that possible? Didn't read much talk about it after that post.

In VERY limited numbers. Unless you have a downpayment and ordered very early, and ordered from a store that has big volume with Pioneer Elites, your looking late July early Aug.

I don't understand this setting. Doesn't setting the receiver to pass only 1080i override the command to send a native signal (480i 480p 768p 1080i) to the Pio for processing?

I agree the blips don't occur with this setting but I'm not convinced that the Pio is doing the processing on all material with this combination of settings.

I think you miss read it. You have to go to the menu where "native" is and select 1080i is what I think he meant.

Blips or not, unless it does damage to the Kuro display, I would rather have the Kuro do the conversion than the satellite box.

Does anyone know if these constant blips and video noise hurts the display and or electronics in any way?

I had a question regarding the 5020/6020 bottom mount speaker and the internal speaker amp on the TV. I think I want to remove it (would rather have the side speakers like the elites) and I'm wondering how well the Pio would drive my small L/R satellites for a home theater set up. Here's what I'm thinking: I want to wall mount the TV and run the wiring in the wall. I'm also going to get a new 5-speaker system (small satellites) and wall mount them, again running the wiring in the walls, so everything has a floating effect. I was thinking of getting an A/B switch for the front L/R speakers to share them with the TV and my receiver. Why you ask? Because when the wife is home during the day, she won't want to mess around with having to turn on the receiver with the TV just to get sound. This way, I can switch control when we're watching a movie where we want to use the surround sound.

I would really encourage you to buy a Harmony remote. It does a great job of simplifying a complex A/V setup. In particular in the rare event that something goes wrong the remote has a help button that leads the operator through a few questions to fix the problem. It works great.

I used to come home and find my wife reading a book because she "couldn't get the damn thing working". With the Harmony it is no problem at all.

I have two Harmony 880's. One for my family room home theater and one for my basement home theater.

Robert, Roman, D-Nice, other Pioneer guru's: I saw the post quoted posted on another forum, anyone care to comment on the validity of these statements (discussing the advantages of an Elite vs a non-Elite)? tx!

I have actually had training on both models [the Elite and the non-Elite] from the vendors....The Elite model has a deeper cell structure, allowing for more gas to be filled in the cells which makes the picture richer. Also the cells act like a shotgun, versus a sawed off shotgun, the light path is straighter and doesnt "spray", making sure that the picture doesnt bleed into the other cells as much [as the non-Elite]. Also [the Elite has] a more advanced video processor allows for even deeper blacks, brighter whites, etc. The [Elite] video processor also makes SD broadcasting looker better ... Hope this helps. It is a lot better set [and worth the difference between the non-Elite]

I would really encourage you to buy a Harmony remote. It does a great job of simplifying a complex A/V setup. In particular in the rare event that something goes wrong the remote has a help button that leads the operator through a few questions to fix the problem. It works great.

I used to come home and find my wife reading a book because she "couldn't get the damn thing working". With the Harmony it is no problem at all.

I have two Harmony 880's. One for my family room home theater and one for my basement home theater.

Definitely as I purchased the lower end Harmony about 5 months ago and it's a great device. One push and I'm watching TV. One more push and I'm now watching Blu Ray and yet another push and everything is off (well except for the damn PS3, but I can live with that).

Pioneer PDP-LX6090: (review)

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7136516&postcount=296


From the review...

"Impractical glossy cover the hull"

What? They must be talking about the black finish around the screen. If that's the only negative they can find, then great! I happen to like the glossy cover!

Robert, Roman, D-Nice, other Pioneer guru's: I saw the post quoted posted on another forum, anyone care to comment on the validity of these statements (discussing the advantages of an Elite vs a non-Elite)? tx!

+1

If not BS ... then the 151 would be my choice (even with the looooooong wait :()


P.S. Any Sponsors have any 151 allocations (not already allocated) in the June delivery? ;)

Robert, Roman, D-Nice, other Pioneer guru's: I saw the post quoted posted on another forum, anyone care to comment on the validity of these statements (discussing the advantages of an Elite vs a non-Elite)? tx!

I have actually had training on both models [the Elite and the non-Elite] from the vendors....The Elite model has a deeper cell structure, allowing for more gas to be filled in the cells which makes the picture richer. Also the cells act like a shotgun, versus a sawed off shotgun, the light path is straighter and doesnt "spray", making sure that the picture doesnt bleed into the other cells as much [as the non-Elite]. Also [the Elite has] a more advanced video processor allows for even deeper blacks, brighter whites, etc. The [Elite] video processor also makes SD broadcasting looker better ... Hope this helps. It is a lot better set [and worth the difference between the non-Elite]



Ummm....I googled the quote, and they were talking about 8Gs not 9Gs.

Ummm....I googled the quote, and they were talking about 8Gs not 9Gs.

Umm... so?? Yes the quote was about the Elite 150FD versus the non-Elite 6010FD. 8G/9G have much in common. and I'd still be interested in knowing the answer as it applies to the 151/6020. PS: Congrats for mastering search engines. :rolleyes:

Robert, Roman, D-Nice, other Pioneer guru's: I saw the post quoted posted on another forum, anyone care to comment on the validity of these statements (discussing the advantages of an Elite vs a non-Elite)? tx!

I feel if a person is not going to get there set calibrated then the Pioneer Elites (Although a tad better) are not worth the extra costs. Elites can not really be bargan shoped since they can not be sold on the net, sold thru mail order, or over the phone.

Umm... so?? 8G/9G have many things in common. and i'd still be interested in knowing the answer.There is no such difference that I recall reading about in the past 8 months.

Why would you want to look at them first? lol :) Kidding, I would guess by the end of the month.
I went to 6th avenue electronics in NJ over the weekend and looked at different TV's for fun. They have a room dedicated to Pioneer and the Kuro sets. They looked like they needed to be setup. They had a 5080 and and 5010. I also looked at the Panasonic 60" plasma which didn't look that great either. I think the feed to the sets didn't help. No blueray players connected anywhere to any set... big disappointment. My point is don't put too much weight on seeing the set in the store like Best Buy. I still understand why you want to see it.

-kkgsxr

Got my 6020 today!!

All I can say is Amazing PQ!!

I can't imagine it getting even better after some break in....

Am I missing something here though,, Can't seem to find a color temp setting?
And no NR settings either? Not that it needs it though......

lol what rock were you in bro :) not in a mean way, but it was said so many times that the 9g non elite would not have NR and other settings only the elite would. glad you enjoy your set congrats on it and hope to see some screen caps on iso settings :D


Got my 6020 today!!

All I can say is Amazing PQ!!

I can't imagine it getting even better after some break in....

Am I missing something here though,, Can't seem to find a color temp setting?
And no NR settings either? Not that it needs it though......

I received a price quote of $xxxx on the 6020 or $xxxx on the 9G 60" Elite? Is the Elite worth $xxxx??

No price talk.

No price talk. Read the rules before you post.

LTCJACK pm people insted :D i would go for better Picture Quality for an elite then bigger size if budget is a problem if not then both would be great :) edit your price and give a hint i guess insted of actual price

keep in mind that if you have a HT or a nice tv you would set it up where kids wont get near it via wall mount or off limit area...true, but I'd like to be able to wipe the damn thing off (with safe material). I'm afraid to clean my 8G Kuro display, the bezel scratches too easy (even with the supplied micr-fibre cloth). You pretty much can't touch the screen itself as the optical coating is too delicate. Rediculous.

I am getting the 60" tv...just a question of whether the elite is worth the extra dime. I won't get the set calibrated...probably just plug it in and watch some sports. Considering most TV's are 2 dimes, isn't 4 dimes enough to spend...How significant is the difference to bump up to 5 dimes....once the set is in your house, you have nothing next to it to actually compare it to...so isn't the 6020 decent enough? I might be willing to spend an extra dime if the elite is more aesthetically looking than the 6020 though. Is the bezel a sharper looking piece?

the elite does have quite a set of more controls to adjust if you desire, the speakers are set on the sides and i think out of box the elite is better due to the fact that it has better processing / or filters or something sorry i forgot but its been a great while of time since this thread started. i would say elite but if you want a official thing then ask d-nice

I am getting the 60" tv...just a question of whether the elite is worth the extra dime. I won't get the set calibrated...probably just plug it in and watch some sports. Considering most TV's are 2 dimes, isn't 4 dimes enough to spend...How significant is the difference to bump up to 5 dimes....once the set is in your house, you have nothing next to it to actually compare it to...so isn't the 6020 decent enough? I might be willing to spend an extra dime if the elite is more aesthetically looking than the 6020 though. Is the bezel a sharper looking piece?

LTCJACK pm people insted :D i would go for better Picture Quality for an elite then bigger size if budget is a problem if not then both would be great :) edit your price and give a hint i guess insted of actual price

the elite does have quite a set of more controls to adjust if you desire, the speakers are set on the sides and i think out of box the elite is better due to the fact that it has better processing / or filters or something sorry i forgot but its been a great while of time since this thread started. i would say elite but if you want a official thing then ask d-nice

+1 I'd definitely like D-Nice's / Robert (other experts) input on the processing and what if any cell structure differences there would be (such as suggested in my previous post), or ways to quantify the PQ differences between Elite and non-Elite, besides just the settings or lack thereof.

I am getting the 60" tv...just a question of whether the elite is worth the extra dime. I won't get the set calibrated...probably just plug it in and watch some sports. Considering most TV's are 2 dimes, isn't 4 dimes enough to spend...How significant is the difference to bump up to 5 dimes....once the set is in your house, you have nothing next to it to actually compare it to...so isn't the 6020 decent enough? I might be willing to spend an extra dime if the elite is more aesthetically looking than the 6020 though. Is the bezel a sharper looking piece?

I have no input on this but check at the top of the page. Chris, Cleveland Plasma - forum sponsor, gives his perception that a 6020 is preferrable to a non-calibrated Elite, mostly based on cost.

I have no input on this but check at the top of the page. Chris, Cleveland Plasma - forum sponsor, gives his perception that a 6020 is preferrable to a non-calibrated Elite, mostly based on cost.

No offence to Chris, but I'd like to hear opinions from people like D-Nice and Robert to get a better sense of where the best PQ is, how much better, and what hardware/software is behind it?

Is there anything in terms of processing or in terms of the hardware that the Elite has or does that the non-Elite doesn't? (Again, not in regards to settings). Chris didn't really elaborate much about his reasoning behind his opinion. And he factored cost / barriers in ordering into his opinion.

For many people, that won't be a factor. (Just as an example, there was a group buy in Canada last year (we're organizing another for this year, PM me for details) and it achieved a significant percentage discount for the Elite models such that the barriers Chris mentioned would not be a factor) So I'm much more interested in the question from a PQ / hardware difference perspective, less about the logistic difficulties of getting one model over another.

Myself I'm definitely ready to pull the trigger on a 111FD, but for the same price point I could just as well have a 6020FD. But given the added NR features, better speakers, (3 yr warranty in Canada), and reports of 'the best' (i.e better than non-Elite) PQ of Elite, I'm inclined to go 111FD for my 6-7ft viewing distance. I think the 6020FD might be too big. Also russwong's reports of going from a 150FD -> 6010FD and missing his 150FD (calibrated, with pure mode) really makes me wonder.. But I'm still tempted by the 6020FD, I just wish we could get more experienced opinion from people who spend most of their day looking at / dealing with the 8G/9G Elite/Non-elite (I'm looking at you Robert!! ;)) :D

well glad we're in the same page :D and quoting each other lol but im set on the PRO-111FD because once i make this big step up jump i cant upgrade my tv until the next big thing so this is for keeps, that being said at the same time regardless if said by pioneer or not but i rather be safe then sorry with the pioneer panasonic merge vs in hosue pioneer 100% once by the next big thing maybe pioneer will be by it self again insted of the merge being where it will be.

all in all i want the very best since i'm already spending alot why not do it all the way and based on our sitting distince yeah 60" would sound good but too akwerd so there you have it im set on the PRO-111FD

No offence to Chris, but I'd like to hear opinions from people like D-Nice and Robert to get a better sense of where the best PQ is and what hardware/software is behind it, is there anything in terms of processing or in terms of the hardware that the Elite has or does that the non-Elite doesn't? (Again, not in regards to settings).

Myself I'm definitely ready to pull the trigger on a 111FD, but for the same price point I could just as well have a 6020FD. But given the added NR features, better speakers, (3 yr warranty in Canada), and reports of 'the best' (i.e better than non-Elite) PQ of Elite, I'm inclined to go 111FD for my 6-7ft viewing distance. I think the 6020FD might be too big. Also russwong's reports of going from a 150FD -> 6010FD and missing his 150FD (calibrated, with pure mode) really makes me wonder.. But I'm still tempted by the 6020FD, I just wish we could get more experienced opinion from people who spend most of their day looking at /dealing with the 8G/9G Elite/Non-elite (I'm looking at you Robert!! ;)) :D

the elite does have quite a set of more controls to adjust if you desire, the speakers are set on the sides and i think out of box the elite is better due to the fact that it has better processing / or filters or something sorry i forgot but its been a great while of time since this thread started. i would say elite but if you want a official thing then ask d-nice

Speakers are non issue since they will be removed---running everything through B&W speakers and velo sub

No offence to Chris, but I'd like to hear opinions from people like D-Nice and Robert to get a better sense of where the best PQ is and what hardware/software is behind it, is there anything in terms of processing or in terms of the hardware that the Elite has or does that the non-Elite doesn't? (Again, not in regards to settings). Chris didn't really elaborate much about his reasoning behind his opinion. And he factored cost / barriers in ordered into his opinion. For many people, that won't be a factor. (Just as an example, there was a group buy in Canada last year (we're organizing another for this year, PM me for details) and it achieved a significant percentage discount for the Elite models such that the barriers Chris mentioned would not be a factor) So I'm much more interested in the question from a PQ / hardware difference perspective, less about the logistic difficulties of getting one model over another.

Myself I'm definitely ready to pull the trigger on a 111FD, but for the same price point I could just as well have a 6020FD. But given the added NR features, better speakers, (3 yr warranty in Canada), and reports of 'the best' (i.e better than non-Elite) PQ of Elite, I'm inclined to go 111FD for my 6-7ft viewing distance. I think the 6020FD might be too big. Also russwong's reports of going from a 150FD -> 6010FD and missing his 150FD (calibrated, with pure mode) really makes me wonder.. But I'm still tempted by the 6020FD, I just wish we could get more experienced opinion from people who spend most of their day looking at /dealing with the 8G/9G Elite/Non-elite (I'm looking at you Robert!! ;)) :D

I talked to Robert on the phone saturday and asked his opinion about me getting the 6020 instead of the 151. I told him that I had no intention of getting the set Professionally calibrated. He said the 6020 would probably be my best bet.

Robert, Roman, D-Nice, other Pioneer guru's: I saw the post quoted posted on another forum, anyone care to comment on the validity of these statements (discussing the advantages of an Elite vs a non-Elite)? tx!
Reading that quote makes me really want to go with an Elite! They should use that kind of language in the marketing materials! I'd calibrate the set myself.

No offence to Chris, but I'd like to hear opinions from people like D-Nice and Robert to get a better sense of where the best PQ is, how much better, and what hardware/software is behind it?

Is there anything in terms of processing or in terms of the hardware that the Elite has or does that the non-Elite doesn't? (Again, not in regards to settings). Chris didn't really elaborate much about his reasoning behind his opinion. And he factored cost / barriers in ordering into his opinion.

For many people, that won't be a factor. (Just as an example, there was a group buy in Canada last year (we're organizing another for this year, PM me for details) and it achieved a significant percentage discount for the Elite models such that the barriers Chris mentioned would not be a factor) So I'm much more interested in the question from a PQ / hardware difference perspective, less about the logistic difficulties of getting one model over another.

Myself I'm definitely ready to pull the trigger on a 111FD, but for the same price point I could just as well have a 6020FD. But given the added NR features, better speakers, (3 yr warranty in Canada), and reports of 'the best' (i.e better than non-Elite) PQ of Elite, I'm inclined to go 111FD for my 6-7ft viewing distance. I think the 6020FD might be too big. Also russwong's reports of going from a 150FD -> 6010FD and missing his 150FD (calibrated, with pure mode) really makes me wonder.. But I'm still tempted by the 6020FD, I just wish we could get more experienced opinion from people who spend most of their day looking at / dealing with the 8G/9G Elite/Non-elite (I'm looking at you Robert!! ;)) :D

My purchase is down the road abit. My viewing distance is around 9-10'. So I have set my one requirement to a 60". I have no problem in laying out the PQ priorities. 1. 151FD calibrated 2. 151 uncalibrated 3. 6020 calibrated and 4. 6020 uncalibrated. I think my decision will still be based on price/performance and wallet size.

I think your statement about the group buy could work with any of the choices so the pricing would still be relative. I am anxious to see some reviews of the elites but I don't think my wallet is thick enough. Good luck in your quest for the perfect tv for your situation.

My purchase is down the road abit. My viewing distance is around 9-10'. So I have set my one requirement to a 60". I have no problem in laying out the PQ priorities. 1. 151FD calibrated 2. 151 uncalibrated 3. 6020 calibrated and 4. 6020 uncalibrated. I think my decision will still be based on price/performance and wallet size.

I think your statement about the group buy could work with any of the choices so the pricing would still be relative. I am anxious to see some reviews of the elites but I don't think my wallet is thick enough. Good luck in your quest for the perfect tv for your situation.

Just a quick analogy that is not relative to this thread. Think of a looking at a Lexus IS350 as the 20 series Kuros, while the Lexus IS-F as the Elite Kuros. There is no difference in car itself, but the engine and cosmetic differences. The performance is better in terms of horsepower, quickness, handling, and acceleration, however, is it worth $25,000 more. That is what you should ask yourself. Same analogy of the Mercedes AMG vs. Non AMG series. I can go on and on, however, at the end of the day I can live with a IS350 in my driveway.

Chris

There are better cars than the Lexus IS-F at that price point, but let's not go there :p

Thanks Roman.

10 Pixels or 30 cells but I have seen them replace for less it just depends on different variables.

Yikes. A display with 29 broken cells would be awful. I would rather have a Vizio, RPTV, or LCD TV than a premium Kuro with 29 broken cells, any day. In fact, I would probably prefer any of these to a Kuro with 10 broken cells or 5 broken pixels.

I dont think that by not breaking in your Plasma you will have a worse picture. Its just recommended.

May I ask why it is recommended then?

Regards,

/iaw

because althought its not mandatory it evenly ages the phosphors will will greatly reduced the chances of frequent IR to disapear almost instanly and the almost non exisitent possbility of Burn in and some say that the picture on tv inproves as the hours pass.

as far as that many cell structures roman did not say it had happend to a kuro please dont quote kuro on it since it was said that a few pixels were stuck not nessary a whole cell structre




Thanks Roman.
Yikes. A display with 29 broken cells would be awful. I would rather have a Vizio, RPTV, or LCD TV than a premium Kuro with 29 broken cells, any day. In fact, I would probably prefer any of these to a Kuro with 10 broken cells or 5 broken pixels.

May I ask why it is recommended then?

Regards,

/iaw

Just a quick analogy that is not relative to this thread. Think of a looking at a Lexus IS350 as the 20 series Kuros, while the Lexus IS-F as the Elite Kuros. There is no difference in car itself, but the engine and cosmetic differences. The performance is better in terms of horsepower, quickness, handling, and acceleration, however, is it worth $25,000 more. That is what you should ask yourself. Same analogy of the Mercedes AMG vs. Non AMG series. I can go on and on, however, at the end of the day I can live with a IS350 in my driveway.

Chris

Does that mean you agree with me? or not?

Here is the difference.

Purchase an elite 50" and a non elite 50".

Warm them both up for 20 minutes.

Take $1000 cash go into your backyard with some gasoline and light your money on fire.

Signal to your wife to turn on the non-elite run in side and look at the PQ quality. Run back outside add more gasoline to your thousand bucks.

Run back inside signal to your wife to turn on the elite, if you can see a difference then perhaps it is worth your hard earned cash, otherwise you are burning your money away.

\You can't compare a merc AMG vs a non Merc AMG, sure they look the same but they drive a hell of a lot different.

Take a BMW M3 vs a 328 and tell me they drive the same - don't believe me, go drive one! Sure one costs a lot more but they are completely different cars, take an elite and a non elite, have them both calibrated by a professional and tell me if you can tell the difference. If a 328 tuned by a mechanic drove the same way as an M3 or even a 335, then people wouldn't be driving M3's.

Just a quick analogy that is not relative to this thread. Think of a looking at a Lexus IS350 as the 20 series Kuros, while the Lexus IS-F as the Elite Kuros. There is no difference in car itself, but the engine and cosmetic differences. The performance is better in terms of horsepower, quickness, handling, and acceleration, however, is it worth $25,000 more. That is what you should ask yourself. Same analogy of the Mercedes AMG vs. Non AMG series. I can go on and on, however, at the end of the day I can live with a IS350 in my driveway.

Chris

\You can't compare a merc AMG vs a non Merc AMG, sure they look the same but they drive a hell of a lot different.

Take a BMW M3 vs a 328 and tell me they drive the same - don't believe me, go drive one! Sure one costs a lot more but they are completely different cars, take an elite and a non elite, have them both calibrated by a professional and tell me if you can tell the difference. If a 328 tuned by a mechanic drove the same way as an M3 or even a 335, then people wouldn't be driving M3's.

Yes flagship performance cars vs. their top of the line sports sedan will drive different. I am trying to illustrate to individuals is that are you maximizing your value or can you justify the price increase for slight or better performance?

I agree with your analogy!

Chris

Does that mean you agree with me? or not?

Yes I agree with you...I thought I would add two pennies...;)

Chris

I called my local bb/magnolia to find out if they knew when the new pioneerswill be arriving, and the sales person said they should be hitting stores june 27th... I hope this is true.

I called my local bb/magnolia to find out if they knew when the new pioneerswill be arriving, and the sales person said they should be hitting stores june 27th... I hope this is true.

yep that should be correctly but so sorry to say its only the non elite 9g aetherhole yep they didnt know .... remember pioneer ships once a month so by next month if the bestbuy stores are lucky you'll see some here and there i hope...

I went into my local best buy inquiring about the new Elites. They said "By the end of this year"

haha. I guess they didn't know that much...

I went into my local best buy inquiring about the new Elites. They said "By the end of this year"

haha. I guess they didn't know that much...

Thats about as crazy as what a Best buy employee told me when I asked him the same question.
He told me that Panasonic will be shipping the 9G's to them by October becasue they were building them.lol.

Here is the difference.

Purchase an elite 50" and a non elite 50".

Warm them both up for 20 minutes.

Take $1000 cash go into your backyard with some gasoline and light your money on fire.

Signal to your wife to turn on the non-elite run in side and look at the PQ quality. Run back outside add more gasoline to your thousand bucks.

Run back inside signal to your wife to turn on the elite, if you can see a difference then perhaps it is worth your hard earned cash, otherwise you are burning your money away.

Okay, I've gone from an Elite 8G to a non-elite (as I am moving I sold the TV
and have a non-elite to tide me over).

Let me get to the point:

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!

There, that's it. I've had an elite in my home, and I dearly miss it :(. The
non-elite is amazingly nice, but it's definitely not nearly as good, professionally
calibrated or not. In my case, $1000 extra is worth every single penny. Even
my brother and his wife notice the difference.

Okay, I've gone from an Elite 8G to a non-elite (as I am moving I sold the TV
and have a non-elite to tide me over).

Let me get to the point:

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!

There, that's it. I've had an elite in my home, and I dearly miss it :(. The
non-elite is amazingly nice, but it's definitely not nearly as good, professionally
calibrated or not. In my case, $1000 extra is worth every single penny. Even
my brother and his wife notice the difference.

Ahhh
Nambit!
Don't say that. I just ordered a 6020 instead of the 151fd.
No but really, I think I will be amazed with the 6020.
I have been using a pooperphillips for about 2 months, so I am sure the 6020 will blow me away.

I called my local bb/magnolia to find out if they knew when the new pioneerswill be arriving, and the sales person said they should be hitting stores june 27th... I hope this is true.

Were they talking about Elites, non Elites or both? Anyway, that sounds about right. If they are talking about Elites, then it will probably be a very limited number and will be delivered to the people who already pre-ordered them.

didnt you see my post ? better yet here i quoted it...

yep that should be correctly but so sorry to say its only the non elite 9g that will be on mid 27th or so aetherhole yep they didnt know .... remember pioneer ships once a month so by next month if the bestbuy stores are lucky you'll see some elite here and there i hope...

Were they talking about Elites, non Elites or both? Anyway, that sounds about right. If they are talking about Elites, then it will probably be a very limited number and will be delivered to the people who already pre-ordered them.


chad be happy your making a huge jump! but i hope nambit is right as im getting the PRO-111FD
Ahhh
Nambit!
Don't say that. I just ordered a 6020 instead of the 151fd.
No but really, I think I will be amazed with the 6020.
I have been using a pooperphillips for about 2 months, so I am sure the 6020 will blow me away.


Okay, I've gone from an Elite 8G to a non-elite (as I am moving I sold the TV
and have a non-elite to tide me over).

Let me get to the point:

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!

There, that's it. I've had an elite in my home, and I dearly miss it :(. The
non-elite is amazingly nice, but it's definitely not nearly as good, professionally
calibrated or not. In my case, $1000 extra is worth every single penny. Even
my brother and his wife notice the difference.

As for the non elite models, last year my local BB had them in the back but wouldn't but them on display because they had to clear out the earlier sets.

Having them in stock isn't the same as has having them on display for us to oogle at.

Robert, Roman, D-Nice, other Pioneer guru's: I saw the post quoted posted on another forum, anyone care to comment on the validity of these statements (discussing the advantages of an Elite vs a non-Elite)? tx!False.

False.

Cool thanks D-Nice!!

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!! There, that's it. I've had an elite in my home, and I dearly miss it . The non-elite is amazingly nice, but it's definitely not nearly as good, professionally calibrated or not.

Same sources, same everything, except for the sets... not to knock the non-elites, but there is a difference that isn't quantifiable in the list of feature differences that I've posted for the various models. I don't know if it's because my 150FD was calibrated and the 6010 is using D-nices settings. I don't know if it's the Pure mode vs the User mode, but man it just doesn't look as nice.

Any thoughts on why russwong and nambit (and his brother and wife) notice 'night and day' PQ difference after swapping out their Elite for non-Elites? and how much PQ difference there is between the two (without calibration)? If you had to go with a 111FD or 6020FD for a 6-7ft viewing distance what would you do?

true, but I'd like to be able to wipe the damn thing off (with safe material). I'm afraid to clean my 8G Kuro display, the bezel scratches too easy (even with the supplied micr-fibre cloth). You pretty much can't touch the screen itself as the optical coating is too delicate. Rediculous.If you have a 768p Kuro, the 1080p Kuro's bezel is completely different. The 1080p Kuros have a acrylic bezel while the, now discontinued, 768p Kuros have a regular plastic bezel. You should see no microscratches on the 1080p Kuro's bezel.

Any thoughts on why russwong and nambit (and his brother and wife) notice 'night and day' PQ difference after swapping out their Elite for non-Elites? and how much PQ difference there is between the two (without calibration)? If you had to go with a 111FD or 6020FD for a 6-7ft viewing distance what would you do?I'll let you know after I get the 6020 :)

Does anyone know the exact measurements for the Pro-151? I received my wallmount and plan on trying to do a mock up this weekend and realized it would help if I had the actually measurements. I have been using the 150s but I believe the 151 is slightly different. Thanks!
From the spec sheet PDF -

With Speakers (in inches): 66-1/32 (W) x 34-1/2 (H) x 3-21/32 (D)
Without: 57-11/16 (W)

The Value Electronics site has a link with PDF spec sheets on it for the 151 and other 9G Kuros for more stats.

I'll let you know after I get the 6020 :)

:D thanks, I look forward to it :D

From the spec sheet PDF -

With Speakers (in inches): 66-1/32 (W) x 34-1/2 (H) x 3-21/32 (D)
Without: 57-11/16 (W)

The Value Electronics site has a link with PDF spec sheets on it for the 151 and other 9G Kuros for more stats.

HarsimusJC

Could you provide the link to the 151 pdf ... thanks

HarsimusJC

Could you provide the link to the 151 pdf ... thanks


Check the first post of this thread.

Thanks HarsimusJC for the info and the link. I checked there but missed the pdf. This helps me out a lot!

Is the network remote (virtual remote) functionality available on all 9g Elite models or just the 141?
Thanks,
John

Yikes. A display with 29 broken cells would be awful. I would rather have a Vizio, RPTV, or LCD TV than a premium Kuro with 29 broken cells, any day. In fact, I would probably prefer any of these to a Kuro with 10 broken cells or 5 broken pixels.

I don't doubt what Roman said about the pixel policy, but I don't think Pioneer adheres to the letter of that policy. In fact, from the 110 manual:

"Plasma screens display information using pixels. Pioneer plasma display panels contain a very large number of pixels. (Depending on the panel size; over 3.1 million pixels for a 50 inch/60 inch display). All Pioneer display panels are manufactured using a very high level of ultra-precision technology and undergo individual quality control.

In rare cases, some pixels can be permanently switched off, or on, resulting in either a black or colored pixel permanently fixed on the screen. This effect is common to all plasma displays because it is a consequence of the technology.

If the defective pixels are visible at a normal viewing distance of between 2.5 and 3.5 meters (8.2 and 11.5 feet) while viewing a normal broadcast (i.e. not a test card, still image or single color display) please contact Pioneer Customer Support Div. (USA) or Customer Satisfaction Dept. (CANADA). See back cover.

If, however, they can only be seen close up or during single color displays then this is considered normal for this technology."

Question to past and present Kuro owners, Can the kuro removable speaker be used as the center channel within your audio system?, and if so how would you do this? Would you just run the wires to your amp instead of the T.V.? I would love to hear everyone's input because I have a great Bose center Channel but, if I could use the Pionner speaker it would look alot beter than throwing a bulky speaker below the panel.

As for the non elite models, last year my local BB had them in the back but wouldn't but them on display because they had to clear out the earlier sets.

Having them in stock isn't the same as has having them on display for us to oogle at.


hopefully it wont take that long. on the website they say they are on clearence. so i hope we see the new ones soon.

Question to past and present Kuro owners, Can the kuro removable speaker be used as the center channel within your audio system?, and if so how would you do this? Would you just run the wires to your amp instead of the T.V.? I would love to hear everyone's input because I have a great Bose center Channel but, if I could use the Pionner speaker it would look alot beter than throwing a bulky speaker below the panel.

The fundamental problem is getting the same sound quality from each speaker in a surround system. Mixing speakers typically doesn't lend to that...but you won't know until you try.

The correct method would be to not connect the wire from the Pioneer speaker to the wire connection on the back of the set, but rather connect the wire from the speaker to your preamp/receiver.

Okay, I've gone from an Elite 8G to a non-elite (as I am moving I sold the TV
and have a non-elite to tide me over).

Let me get to the point:

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!

There, that's it. I've had an elite in my home, and I dearly miss it :(. The
non-elite is amazingly nice, but it's definitely not nearly as good, professionally
calibrated or not. In my case, $1000 extra is worth every single penny. Even
my brother and his wife notice the difference.

If there was a mixed batch of 50 Elites and 50 non-Elites with no speakers and identical bezels with no logos, I'd bet a $100 bill that 9 out of 10 Elite owners could NOT pick out all 50 Elites.

If there was a mixed batch of 50 Elites and 50 non-Elites with no speakers and identical bezels with no logos, I'd bet a $100 bill that 9 out of 10 Elite owners could NOT pick out all 50 Elites.

I'm hoping that's the case.

Speaking of non-elites, has anyone heard any news about shipments for the 5020s and additional 6020s? Rumor last week was that they were going to ship this week from certain online dealers (I think Invision and Robert and Roman all confirmed this). Any updates?

If there was a mixed batch of 50 Elites and 50 non-Elites with no speakers and identical bezels with no logos, I'd bet a $100 bill that 9 out of 10 Elite owners could NOT pick out all 50 Elites.

The best thing about the 9Gs is that we don't have to have those discussions about 1080p and 768p. Maybe with the dumbing down of the non-Elites we can put this discussion to bed soon too.

Question to past and present Kuro owners, Can the kuro removable speaker be used as the center channel within your audio system?, and if so how would you do this? Would you just run the wires to your amp instead of the T.V.? I would love to hear everyone's input because I have a great Bose center Channel but, if I could use the Pionner speaker it would look alot beter than throwing a bulky speaker below the panel.

You can't use "Great" and "Bose" in the same sentence..


JUST KIDDING :D




bob

An oxymoron.

You can't use "Great" and "Bose" in the same sentence..


JUST KIDDING :D




bob

Here is the difference.

Purchase an elite 50" and a non elite 50".

Warm them both up for 20 minutes.

Take $1000 cash go into your backyard with some gasoline and light your money on fire.

Signal to your wife to turn on the non-elite run in side and look at the PQ quality. Run back outside add more gasoline to your thousand bucks.

Run back inside signal to your wife to turn on the elite, if you can see a difference then perhaps it is worth your hard earned cash, otherwise you are burning your money away.

I agree. I think the Elite being better thing is perceived. It cost more, it has that sleek look with side mounted speakers and.... it has that Elite logo on the bezel. The Elite has to be the best. NOT

An Elite was well within my budget. After many hours of comparison viewing, I thought the lowly 5080 had the best picture quality and purchased one. Perhaps I haven't a pair of descerning eyes:)

The fundamental problem is getting the same sound quality from each speaker in a surround system. Mixing speakers typically doesn't lend to that...but you won't know until you try.

The correct method would be to not connect the wire from the Pioneer speaker to the wire connection on the back of the set, but rather connect the wire from the speaker to your preamp/receiver.

Thanks, that's what I thought, I guess it can't hurt to try it out and see how it sounds.

If there was a mixed batch of 50 Elites and 50 non-Elites with no speakers and identical bezels with no logos, I'd bet a $100 bill that 9 out of 10 Elite owners could NOT pick out all 50 Elites.


Honestly, how can u make that assumption?

Honestly, how can u make that assumption?

LOL well, he did say "all" 50 Elites. Nobody's perfect. So he set a standard that doesn't really get to PQ differences. It's true, 90% of people probably wouldn't get all 50/50 of them. Most of the people aren't going to be perfect all the time. But that doesn't prove anything as far as which set has better PQ between Elite and non-Elite.

But let's say you did the PEPSI challenge: SET A and SET B side by side, out of the box. Just 2 sets, choose the best. Which would most people choose? And would there be a noticeable difference?? Both Nambit and russwong have had Elites, gone to non-Elites, and said 'hey... where's the WOW?'. They've noticed an appreciable difference in PQ drop. Presumably Robert and others at the Roadshow had time to see both sets side by side. Any observations as far as the PQ difference (if any) is concerned?

I think this is a debate which really calls for some of the experts to give their opinion (based on what they saw in 8G and/or if they attended the roadshow and saw 9G). Because there's a lot of back and forth about the value of going with an Elite where a non-Elite might do just fine. I hope a lot of this is more conclusive by the time D-Nice's report comes around.

In the meantime, people with experience and knowledge would be helpful. :D Is the Elite difference a matter of psychology and hype? Or is there an appreciable difference in PQ??

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!

$1000 extra is worth every single penny.

That's why I am going with the 151. I figured out since I am keeping the set for at least 7 to 9 years, I rather have the best now and wait for a major breakthrough if happens years from now.

My father-in-law has an old Elite and every time I see it I become so jealous! :D

I Elites can not really be bargan shoped since they can not be sold on the net, sold thru mail order, or over the phone.

The 8g Elites could definitely be bargain shopped and the 9Gs will also.

Honestly, how can u make that assumption?

Would you take me up on my bet?:D

true, but I'd like to be able to wipe the damn thing off (with safe material). I'm afraid to clean my 8G Kuro display, the bezel scratches too easy (even with the supplied micr-fibre cloth). You pretty much can't touch the screen itself as the optical coating is too delicate. Rediculous.

Use a microfiber cloth and clean water and medium pressure. It's not that delicate.

The 8g Elites could definitely be bargain shopped and the 9Gs will also.

I thought the 8g elites are pretty scarce. From what I've read some of the vendors here had trouble sourcing them months ago already.

LOL well, he did say "all" 50 Elites. Nobody's perfect. So he set a standard that doesn't really get to PQ differences. It's true, 90% of people probably wouldn't get all 50/50 of them. Most of the people aren't going to be perfect all the time. But that doesn't prove anything as far as which set has better PQ between Elite and non-Elite.

But let's say you did the PEPSI challenge: SET A and SET B side by side, out of the box. Just 2 sets, choose the best. Which would most people choose? And would there be a noticeable difference?? Both Nambit and russwong have had Elites, gone to non-Elites, and said 'hey... where's the WOW?'. They've noticed an appreciable difference in PQ drop. Presumably Robert and others at the Roadshow had time to see both sets side by side. Any observations as far as the PQ difference (if any) is concerned?

I think this is a debate which really calls for some of the experts to give their opinion (based on what they saw in 8G and/or if they attended the roadshow and saw 9G). Because there's a lot of back and forth about the value of going with an Elite where a non-Elite might do just fine. I hope a lot of this is more conclusive by the time D-Nice's report comes around.

In the meantime, people with experience and knowledge would be helpful. :D Is the Elite difference a matter of psychology and hype? Or is there an appreciable difference in PQ??

I'll take it a step further. Put the Elite speakers, bezel and logo on a non-elite Kuro. 90% of the Elite owners would believe they're viewing an Elite picture.:) The point is the PQ quality of all the 8G Kuro models is so very, very close that the average eye cannot tell the difference.

I'll take it a step further. Put the Elite speakers, bezel and logo on a non-elite Kuro. 90% of the Elite owners would believe they're viewing an Elite picture.:) The point is the PQ quality of all the 8G Kuro models is so very, very close that the average eye cannot tell the difference.

Burnsalkire

You have been on a campaign to convince anyone that will listen than there is no difference in 1080p vs 768p and Elite and Non-Elite based on your own visual assessment. I've glad you found a TV that you like but realize that there are many others who disagree with you.

Quick questions:
1. Does anyone have pictures of the user interface for the home media gallery?
2. Does anyone have a list of file formats that can be accessed?

I'm trying to decide if I need to get myself a popcorn hour, or if I should just wait for my new Kuro :)

Burnsalkire

You have been on a campaign to convince anyone that will listen than there is no difference in 1080p vs 768p and Elite and Non-Elite based on your own visual assessment. I've glad you found a TV that you like but realize that there are many others who disagree with you.

+1

Would you take me up on my bet?:D

I wouldn't.
To me the elites and the non-elites are absolutly astounding.
From seeing the pro-150fd and the 6010, I had a hard time telling a difference.
I would bet if someone put an elite bezel on a 6020 I would never know the differences (at least until I try to change some settings). One thing I do not like at all is the fact that the color temp option changed. I don't get that. But thats just me.

Question to past and present Kuro owners, Can the kuro removable speaker be used as the center channel within your audio system?, and if so how would you do this? Would you just run the wires to your amp instead of the T.V.? I would love to hear everyone's input because I have a great Bose center Channel but, if I could use the Pionner speaker it would look alot beter than throwing a bulky speaker below the panel.

Just tell your am/pre-amp that you have no center speaker. Your amp/pre-amp will send the center channel info to both front speakers (you won't miss anything) and you will get same audio quality across the front.

Just tell your am/pre-amp that you have no center speaker. Your amp/pre-amp will send the center channel info to both front speakers (you won't miss anything) and you will get same audio quality across the front.


Thanks, I'll have to try out a couple of differen't set ups. ;)

Hey Robert and D-Nice:

How would you rank the non-Elite 9G and Elite 9G upscaling versus Anchor Bay VRS and Faroudja DCDi?

if i get an oppo 980 and hook hdmi up through the pioneer 94thx then to the kuro. Can I get both the oppo and the 94thx to only let the kuro do the upconverting?

If you had to go with a 111FD or 6020FD for a 6-7ft viewing distance what would you do?

I think you might of been asking D-nice, but if it was me, I would definitely go for the 111 for a viewing distance of 5.5-7ft. 7-7.5ft is a bit of a grey-area, further than 7.5ft I would go for the 6020.

-Coggs

It seems from the "Official 9g owners" thread that the picture controls in the user menu available in the 6020 are somewhat crippled compared to the 6010. Do any of the jedi masters on this thread feel that this could be a serious issue that would tip the scales in favor of the 8Gs. I am just a young padawan out to buy his first HDTV... on the fence regarding the 8G vs 9G question.

Thanks.

It seems from the "Official 9g owners" thread that the picture controls in the user menu available in the 6020 are somewhat crippled compared to the 6010. Do any of the jedi masters on this thread feel that this could be a serious issue that would tip the scales in favor of the 8Gs. I am just a young padawan out to buy his first HDTV... on the fence regarding the 8G vs 9G question.

Thanks.

This just in from Yoda: Question not, 8G vs. 9G. Reach deep down into your wallet you must. Buy a 9G Elite today. When lightyear has past, sell on E-Bay. Reach deep down into wallet again. Buy a 10G Elite. Endless cycle is the dark force of the Kuro black.

It seems from the "Official 9g owners" thread that the picture controls in the user menu available in the 6020 are somewhat crippled compared to the 6010.Still no "Pure" A/V picture selection either, if I were in the market, I'd hold out for the 151FD instead.

JUST PLACED MY ORDER FOR THE 151FD with Robert..... there is only one thing I can say about him....he is in business not for the sake of business but because he has a passion for it....absolute smooth buying experience...I must say

I've got a 151FD pre-ordered. Trying to catch up on all this reading material.
Cannot WAIT to replace my old RPTV (Hitachi 51UWX20B). It has served me well, but will be finding a new home soon.
I take it the consensus is that the Elites will start shipping near the end of the month?

I noticed a few people have been talking about the network abilitys and what files it can play ect.

My question is, to use the network you have to use a computer currect? So why don't people just plug the computer into the tv and use it as a monitor and avoid the network all together?

I think I read the network card on the tv is only 10/100 so thats somewhat limiting I imagine.

The only reason I can think a person would want to use the network is that maybe the tv will process the video somehow?

However this leads me to an observation, using the tv as a monitor, the programs you view video with usually have settings to adjust the picture, as well as your graphic's cards settings....purhaps you can make a non-elite more elite this way?

All this speculation is really pointless until D-Nice chimes in with his findings. He'll give a fair, unbiased review and let everyone know if they should go for the 6020 or step up to the Elite.

Don't forget audio.

I noticed a few people have been talking about the network abilitys and what files it can play ect.

My question is, to use the network you have to use a computer currect? So why don't people just plug the computer into the tv and use it as a monitor and avoid the network all together?

I think I read the network card on the tv is only 10/100 so thats somewhat limiting I imagine.

The only reason I can think a person would want to use the network is that maybe the tv will process the video somehow?

However this leads me to an observation, using the tv as a monitor, the programs you view video with usually have settings to adjust the picture, as well as your graphic's cards settings....purhaps you can make a non-elite more elite this way?

what about the audio?

Has anybody seen a 6020 or 151 PDF manual yet?

Europeans have PDP-LX6090 manual (http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeservice/RegistrInstrMan.nsf/search?openform&Modelnr=lx6090) up on their website already...

It seems from the "Official 9g owners" thread that the picture controls in the user menu available in the 6020 are somewhat crippled compared to the 6010. Do any of the jedi masters on this thread feel that this could be a serious issue that would tip the scales in favor of the 8Gs. I am just a young padawan out to buy his first HDTV... on the fence regarding the 8G vs 9G question.

Thanks.

I seriously doubt that the loss of a couple of settings is going to make an 8G better than a 9G.
I would bet that the 6020 renders a better picture than even the elite 8G 150fd. 5X better blacks, filter improvement, processing improvements, and Improved Optimum Mode will probably make a good difference I bet.
Oh well, I will know tomorrow if my 6020 makes it here by then.
Only bad thing is there are no D-Nice reference settings for the 6020 yet. So I am kinda flying blind.
I guess I will mimic the 8G 6010 reference settings as much as possible and then tweak to my liking.
Wish me luck.
And I will need some special prayers from those who are familiar with the way the Kuro gods have released thier wrath upon me in the past.
http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif Please, I humbly ask you Kuro gods to spare me this time and deliver me a defect free 6020. http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif

I was at a Best Buy on Saturday and they had the 6020 on the wall and still had a 110fd on the floor. I was glancing back and forth between the two sets in rapid succession trying to discern PQ differrences. They both were running a blu-ray of a Shakira concert that was dark and it was very,very,very difficult to see a discernible PQ differrence between the two screens.

Both pictures were bad ass with good shadowing detail! Even when the crowd was zoomed in on you could see strands of hair on the people in the crowd with the dim lighting. I gave up trying to see the differrence and preordered a 151 fd!

I was at a Best Buy on Saturday and they had the 6020 on the wall and still had a 110fd on the floor. I was glancing back and forth between the two sets in rapid succession trying to discern PQ differrences. They both were running a blu-ray of a Shakira concert that was dark and it was very,very,very difficult to see a discernible PQ differrence between the two screens.

Both pictures were bad ass with good shadowing detail! Even when the crowd was zoomed in on you could see strands of hair on the people in the crowd with the dim lighting. I gave up trying to see the differrence and preordered a 151 fd!

I wouldn't put to much stock in what you see at best buy.
-just my opinion.

I was at a Best Buy on Saturday and they had the 6020 on the wall and still had a 110fd on the floor. I was glancing back and forth between the two sets in rapid succession trying to discern PQ differrences. They both were running a blu-ray of a Shakira concert that was dark and it was very,very,very difficult to see a discernible PQ differrence between the two screens.

Both pictures were bad ass with good shadowing detail! Even when the crowd was zoomed in on you could see strands of hair on the people in the crowd with the dim lighting. I gave up trying to see the differrence and preordered a 151 fd!

LOL wait a second. You practically couldn't tell a difference and still went with the Elite? Why not take the $1k difference and put it towards HT/Blu-ray or savings for 10G or beyond?

I wouldn't put to much stock in what you see at best buy.
-just my opinion.


and that's not a problem unique to Best Buy, is it? It's a problem common to all big box showrooms with horrendously bright light, right?

I seriously doubt that the loss of a couple of settings is going to make an 8G better than a 9G.
I would bet that the 6020 renders a better picture than even the elite 8G 150fd. 5X better blacks, filter improvement, processing improvements, and Improved Optimum Mode will probably make a good difference I bet.
Oh well, I will know tomorrow if my 6020 makes it here by then.
Only bad thing is there are no D-Nice reference settings for the 6020 yet. So I am kinda flying blind.
I guess I will mimic the 8G 6010 reference settings as much as possible and then tweak to my liking.
Wish me luck.
And I will need some special prayers from those who are familiar with the way the Kuro gods have released thier wrath upon me in the past.
http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif Please, I humbly ask you Kuro gods to spare me this time and deliver me a defect free 6020. http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif

I can't believe you ordered on the internet again after receiving two broken 6010's in a row. Brave man. Also, we will have to wait till some reviews are out...it is very possible the 150 will be superior to the 6020.

I went with the 151 fd for the better video processing and upscaling. In my mind the logic is as follows for PQ: 8g elites < 9g non elites < 9g elites.

I also was ready to purchase a 150fd in February and had some monetary emergencies come up which prevented me from doing so. It ended up being a blessing in disguise as now I can get a 151fd for $1,000 cheaper. I still have had to cope with watching my GF's crappy 24" Phillips (piece of my soul dies everyday) crt ever since I left my 340lb 36" Sony Wega in my old appartment as I did not want to have to move it down 2 flights of stairs and then up 3 flights of stairs. I had that Sony for 5 years and was always happy with it. At the time when I bought it, it was the best.

I am also operating under the theory that I will have this TV for the next 5 or 6 years and having the second best for that length of time is not acceptable to me. 151 fd all the way!

LOL wait a second. You practically couldn't tell a difference and still went with the Elite? Why not take the $1k difference and put it towards HT/Blu-ray or savings for 10G or beyond?

My first thought was, "a 6020 on display?" ... that would be the first one spotted

My second thought was exactly HDCan's ...

6020 and the 110 fd were on display, there was not a 9g elite on display. From my judgement (normal guy 20/20 vision) the 6020 looked as good as an 8g elite (110fd)running the same content. That being said if what all of the sponsors have been saying is true a 9g elite will have a better PQ then a 9g non elite.

I could wait till the end of the month to see an elite 9g in a Magnolia and then make an educated guess as to which one has a better PQ, but I don't want to miss the first wave of 151's by not preordering. Im not worried about paying the msrp for the new elite as much as it is $1,000 dollars cheaper than last year.

I mean come on if your buying a Pioneer your not doing it to save money, your doing it to get the best PQ. If you want to save money go post in the Vizio forum so you can get a "I got a huge flat of bran muffins and a new HDTV from Costco!" shirt.

I went with the 151 fd for the better video processing and upscaling. In my mind the logic is as follows for PQ: 8g elites < 9g non elites < 9g elites.

I also was ready to purchase a 150fd in February and had some monetary emergencies come up which prevented me from doing so. It ended up being a blessing in disguise as now I can get a 151fd for $1,000 cheaper. I still have had to cope with watching my GF's crappy 24" Phillips (piece of my soul dies everyday) crt ever since I left my 340lb 36" Sony Wega in my old appartment as I did not want to have to move it down 2 flights of stairs and then up 3 flights of stairs. I had that Sony for 5 years and was always happy with it. At the time when I bought it, it was the best.

I am also operating under the theory that I will have this TV for the next 5 or 6 years and having the second best for that length of time is not acceptable to me. 151 fd all the way!

If having the second best is not acceptable then you better rethink your decision. 10 lumen tech is right around the corner and they are rumors that LG will be releasing a "infinite contrast" plasma at the end of the summer. The Pioneer elite 151 will be much worse the "second best" in two years tops so your time frame of 5-6 years and having "the best plasma" is wishful thinking.

"And here you were thinking Pioneer would stand alone forever as the only outfit with an "infinite contrast" plasma in its arsenal. Not so, as LG has reportedly developed its own technology in order to produce a PDP with "absolute blackness," and if all goes to plan, we could see it surface by the end of July. Aside from that, we don't know much more about the PG7000 just yet, and while we're told the first model will indeed be 1080p, lower-resolution flavors are slated to follow. Get ready folks -- the battle for blackerness is about to get even darker."
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/14/lgs-pg7000-plasma-claims-infinite-contrast-too/

Well you can never future proof your purchase, but for me in this current slice of time I will not be mad if better TV's come out 6 months down the road or even 3 years down the road. I have over a year of research on this forum into this purchase and am upgrading from a 24" Phillips crt.

Pretty sure I will be happy with a 151 fd as my display of choice for the next 5 or 6 years. Will be even happier the day I get to call Comcast and cancel my $55 a month basic cable package because my Direct Tv will be installed!

Would you take me up on my bet?:D

i would....:D

rougebear

10 lumen is at least 2 years away......LG can claim infinite contrast and even if true their processing and glass I think will always be inferior to Pio.

Hi folks,

Stopped by BB last weekend, no 6020s.

Stopped by BB today (Minneapolis, St. Paul) both 5020s and 6020s in their warehouse, saw the inventory on the cpu monitor. I could have purchased one, they will not be on display until older stock sells off a little more, this is from a sales person. Stopped by a second BB - same story.

I noticed there was a dealcatcher.com BB coupon for 10% - 12% off, I did not look at it in detail. I also did not check pricing level changes on the 5010s or 5080s at BB (I forgot). I would assume they have the same discount and have not lowered it. One could use the coupon for a 5080, 5010 and 5020.

Costco still has the 5010FD up on the web.

I plan on the 5020, would prefer not to go thru BB. I will probably (eventually) go through an an online/forum vendor, there is concerns about shipping and warranty but let's not discuss the warranty thing again - please.

Thought I should pass this info on since I've benefited so much from other's posts.

Thanks all,

rgs

[QUOTE=turbo10019;14015897]6020 and the 110 fd were on display

What state in the U.S. do you live in that was lucky enough to get a 6020 on display at BB, especially when there not even up on there web site yet?


I could wait till the end of the month to see an elite 9g in a Magnolia

Were you told by BB that they would have a 9g elite at there Magnolia store at the end of this month? Ive been hearing all along they wouldnt carry them till the end of next month.

Again if what there telling you is true, the BB in your part of the country must be the first or one of them. I wish this was the case were Im from:(

Hi folks,

Stopped by BB last weekend, no 6020s.

Stopped by BB today (Minneapolis, St. Paul) both 5020s and 6020s in their warehouse, saw the inventory on the cpu monitor. I could have purchased one, they will not be on display until older stock sells off a little more, this is from a sales person. Stopped by a second BB - same story.

I noticed there was a dealcatcher.com BB coupon for 10% - 12% off, I did not look at it in detail. I also did not check pricing level changes on the 5010s or 5080s at BB (I forgot). I would assume they have the same discount and have not lowered it. One could use the coupon for a 5080, 5010 and 5020.

Costco still has the 5010FD up on the web.

I plan on the 5020, would prefer not to go thru BB. I will probably (eventually) go through an an online/forum vendor, there is concerns about shipping and warranty but let's not discuss the warranty thing again - please.

Thought I should pass this info on since I've benefited so much from other's posts.

Thanks all,

rgs
Good stuff, thanks.

For some of us that live in Southern California. The Pioneer store in Costa Mesa has the 6020 on display. Is very nice, BUT I have to say that the 8G Elite that was close to it had a better picture. Not sure if the 6020 was calibrated or not. Don't get me wrong, the picture was very nice but the feeling I had was the elite was sharper and the colors more saturate and more dimensional. Not sure why.

I ask the saleswoman (She was hot by the way!:D:eek:) if the Pio Store would consider lowering the MSRP price to match some authorized dealers were quoting me here for the Elite 151. When I told her the quote and she thought I was wrong or joking for sure, saying that I was quoting the 6020 instead of the 151. I said I was positive about the price of the 151. She thought, I was trying to bait her.
Anyway, I don't think they are willing to match the prices their authorized dealers are quoting. I find it interesting. Not sure why they are doing that, since the folks here are way more informed than the average consumer out there. I guess they will not get my business at that store.

By the way, the store there is a Kuro heaven with displays all over the place. The sales woman said the 151 will be available in 3 weeks max, so towards end of June.

I seriously doubt that the loss of a couple of settings is going to make an 8G better than a 9G.
I would bet that the 6020 renders a better picture than even the elite 8G 150fd. 5X better blacks, filter improvement, processing improvements, and Improved Optimum Mode will probably make a good difference I bet.
Oh well, I will know tomorrow if my 6020 makes it here by then.
Only bad thing is there are no D-Nice reference settings for the 6020 yet. So I am kinda flying blind.
I guess I will mimic the 8G 6010 reference settings as much as possible and then tweak to my liking.
Wish me luck.
And I will need some special prayers from those who are familiar with the way the Kuro gods have released thier wrath upon me in the past.
http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif Please, I humbly ask you Kuro gods to spare me this time and deliver me a defect free 6020. http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gifhttp://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif
chadmak, You must be like a kid on Christmas eager to receive your present! May the Kuro gods smile on you. Would love to hear about your past purchase experiences. Thinking about taking 5010 back to BB and order 5020 online when they pop. steve.blue22@yahoo.com Thanks

I will probably (eventually) go through an an online/forum vendor, there is concerns about shipping

Please fill me in on what you mean by this. Are you saying units from forum sponsors more likely to be damaged during shipping, as compared to buying from BB and having them deliver?

luvnhateSony,

The 6020s are not on display but are available to BB stores in Minneapolis and St. Paul Minnesota from the BB warehouse, BB is headquartered in Minneapolis. Sets may be available in other states, I would assume there are state/regional BB warehouses. Call your local BB in ask.

As mentioned, I stopped in BB this past weekend spoke to a manager and he seemed angry that others (some of you guys) had received 6020s. Yes, I enjoyed his response.

It seems like a good time to start looking at prices relative to which Pioneer people are considering, whether it is a 7g, 8g, 9g or whatever. As these new models start showing up prices on the older models may fall further.

rgs

Well you can never future proof your purchase, but for me in this current slice of time I will not be mad if better TV's come out 6 months down the road or even 3 years down the road. I have over a year of research on this forum into this purchase and am upgrading from a 24" Phillips crt.

Pretty sure I will be happy with a 151 fd as my display of choice for the next 5 or 6 years. Will be even happier the day I get to call Comcast and cancel my $55 a month basic cable package because my Direct Tv will be installed!

Best advice I can give you is to get the 151FD and then never visit this forum again UNTIL you're ready for a new display. That way you don't have to worry about "the next best thing". ;)

D-Nice,
Are the bezels on the new 111 and the signature series the same ACRYLIC type of bezel used on the Pro-110FD or are they the plastic bezels? Is the Elite logo hidden inside the bezel or is it on the front of the bezel like the 1150?
Also.. is it a more sophisticated remote control for the signature series?
Please let me know. Thanks D :-)

syswei,

I'm not suggesting ordering online or from a forum sponsor is more likely to be damaged during shipping. My concern is if a box is shipped with a large delicate piece of technology there is always a chance something could happen. If you peek at the non-elite owners thread there is a picture of a damaged box - nothing was wrong with the unit. There is always the chance and the potential increases IMO the more times a box is moved and the further it has to travel.

I guess it's a time in transit phobia.

I could personally drive over to BB pickup the box and personally drop it when I got it home.

rgs

syswei,

I'm not suggesting ordering online or from a forum sponsor is more likely to be damaged during shipping. My concern is if a box is shipped with a large delicate piece of technology there is always a chance something could happen. If you peek at the non-elite owners thread there is a picture of a damaged box - nothing was wrong with the unit. There is always the chance and the potential increases IMO the more times a box is moved and the further it has to travel.

I guess it's a time in transit phobia.

I could personally drive over to BB pickup the box and personally drop it when I got it home.

rgs

man, you can't even imagine how they abused TV during transit to BB:D

;14015666']and that's not a problem unique to Best Buy, is it? It's a problem common to all big box showrooms with horrendously bright light, right?

yes BB, CC, most of them. bright lights and torch mode settings look alot different when you get the set home.

Wow.. I just heard what kind of deal a group of Canadians are getting on the Elite's in an open group buy... Pretty freakin' unbelievable and impressive. Canadians will want to PM me. :D

PS: Does anyone in the know, know about a possible MSRP drop in August when supply increases and 8G is phased out?

PPS: In Canada they've split up the Elite/Non-Elite line. Now ELITE products are an only available from authorized dealers (as they have always been, and not available at big box stores here). BUT non-Elite Kuro's will apparently no longer be available from authorized dealers, only in big box stores. In order to get non-Elite Pioneer product you will have to buy from Future Shop or Best Buy. (Who don't carry Elite products here).

I can't believe you ordered on the internet again after receiving two broken 6010's in a row. Brave man. Also, we will have to wait till some reviews are out...it is very possible the 150 will be superior to the 6020.

I bought from Big River last time. Needless to say thier shipping methods were bad. This time I bought from a forum sponsor (Robert @*********************).
there is no way I am paying bestbuy prices. Period. I live in Alabama and there is no negotiating prices at the store here. I tried it once and they looked at me like I was crazy.

As to all the people who keep inferring that the 6020 is going to be such a let down and The Elite is going to be so much better, I would wait until you either get one in your home or D-Nice does his initial eval and review before making such assumptions. So far I have heard no complaints.
D-nices comment on it was that Greyscale will be the same, color will be superior on the elite, and only time will tell about Gamma. And when I asked Robert about it Saturday on the phone he said if I am not going to calibrate professionally then the 6020 should be just as good for me.
So can we please wait until the set is reviewed a little before we get disappointed with it.:)

So can we please wait until the set is reviewed a little before we get disappointed with it.:)

Amen.

syswei,

I'm not suggesting ordering online or from a forum sponsor is more likely to be damaged during shipping. My concern is if a box is shipped with a large delicate piece of technology there is always a chance something could happen. If you peek at the non-elite owners thread there is a picture of a damaged box - nothing was wrong with the unit. There is always the chance and the potential increases IMO the more times a box is moved and the further it has to travel.

I guess it's a time in transit phobia.

I could personally drive over to BB pickup the box and personally drop it when I got it home.

rgs

Dont you think units get shipped to your local stores as well? Just make sure the units are insured and there is nothing to worry about.

I bought from Big River last time. Needless to say thier shipping methods were bad. This time I bought from a forum sponsor (Robert @*********************).
there is no way I am paying bestbuy prices. Period. I live in Alabama and there is no negotiating prices at the store here. I tried it once and they looked at me like I was crazy.

As to all the people who keep inferring that the 6020 is going to be such a let down and The Elite is going to be so much better, I would wait until you either get one in your home or D-Nice does his initial eval and review before making such assumptions. So far I have heard no complaints.
D-nices comment on it was that Greyscale will be the same, color will be superior on the elite, and only time will tell about Gamma. And when I asked Robert about it Saturday on the phone he said if I am not going to calibrate professionally then the 6020 should be just as good for me.
So can we please wait until the set is reviewed a little before we get disappointed with it.:)

However I read in the 9g owners thread that dnice originaly thought the non-elites had color temp settings, apparently this is not the case. Its looking as if the gap keeps getting bigger and bigger

Dont you think units get shipped to your local stores as well? Just make sure the units are insured and there is nothing to worry about.

Roman,

Yes! of course, I realize that products do not magically appear at BB. Also, I do not believe I would walk out of BB with a $3,000.00 cardboard box if it had a hole in it. Someone in the non-Elite 9g Owners forum had a 6020 box with serious damage, they were extremely lucky there was no damage to the unit. I would not want that to happen to anyone, even receiving a damaged box is not a good way to start a relationship.

chadmak09 mentioned getting two bad 6010 orders done online - that would not be fun to deal with.

Again, I do not believe anyone would walk out of a brick and mortar store with a $3,000.00 box that had a hole in it.

My biggest concern is my time.

rgs

Roman,

Yes! of course, I realize that products do not magically appear at BB. Also, I do not believe I would walk out of BB with a $3,000.00 cardboard box if it had a hole in it. Someone in the non-Elite 9g Owners forum had a 6020 box with serious damage, they were extremely lucky there was no damage to the unit. I would not want that to happen to anyone, even receiving a damaged box is not a good way to start a relationship.

chadmak09 mentioned getting two bad 6010 orders done online - that would not be fun to deal with.

Again, I do not believe anyone would walk out of a brick and mortar store with a $3,000.00 box that had a hole in it.

My biggest concern is my time.

rgs


I ordered my 6020 from Value Electronics sight unseen. It arrived without a dent in the box and the picture, to my eyes, is amazing. I believe the Elite models will take the picture to another level above my 6020 but I won't care one bit since it won't be sitting next to my set... my opinion only.

-kkgsxr

rougebear

10 lumen is at least 2 years away......LG can claim infinite contrast and even if true their processing and glass I think will always be inferior to Pio.

Thats why in my post I stated...."The Pioneer elite 151 will be much worse the "second best" in two years tops so your time frame of 5-6 years and having "the best plasma" is wishful thinking."

Roman,

Yes, of course, I realize that products do not magically appear at BB. Also, I do not believe I would walk out of BB with a $3,000.00 cardboard box if it had a hole in it. Someone in the non-Elite 9g Owners forum had a 6020 box with serious damage, they were extremely lucky there was no damage to the unit. I would not want that to happen to anyone, even receiving a damaged box is not a good way to start a relationship.

chadmak09 mentioned getting two bad 6010 orders done online - that would not be fun to deal with.

Again, I do not believe anyone would walk out of a brick and mortar store with a $3,000.00 box that had a hole in it.

My biggest concern is my time.

rgs

I understand you concerns.
Buying from a B&M store would be much easier. That way if there is damage to the set you can just take it right back and exchange. With online buying you have to wait for a new set to be shipped to you.
The problem for most is that the B&M stores charge so much more money than online dealers. I just cannot pay MSRP. You get a better deal from them.
The trick is to find a reputable dealer that will work with you if something happens.
And most of the forum sponsors are very reputable. Thats why I decided to buy from one this time.
One of the biggest things that made me almost not buy from an online dealer is that with most online sellers, if there are pixel issues you have to deal with the manufacturer policys instead of just being able to exchange. IMO a few dead pixels is flat out unacceptable on a brand new top-of-the-line set like a pioneer. I know Pioneer may consider it acceptable but I sure don't.
I wish there was something that could be done about this.
Wouldn't it be nice if some online dealers would offer an optional "pixel perfect guarantee" that you could pay extra 100 bucks or so for? Sorta like an extended warranty but it would only cover pixel defects. I would buy it, how bout you guys? And if Pixel defects are as rare as I have heard, then it could be quite profitable for a company to offer this i think. The extra piece of mind would be worth it for me at least

Oh, and just to make it clear, The two dead 6010's in a row that I got were not from any forum sponsor. They were from Amazon, Which I will never buy a TV from again. Dealing with problems like that with them is a nightmare. Thier customer service reps (at least the ones I dealt with) were located in India and could barely speak english. Talk about a nightmare!

...
You have been on a campaign to convince anyone that will listen than there is no difference in 1080p vs 768p and Elite and Non-Elite based on your own visual assessment. I've glad you found a TV that you like but realize that there are many others who disagree with you.
This is one of the reasons why I try to emphasize what I state is in my opinion. (I took the OP's name out in respect)

All this speculation is really pointless until D-Nice chimes in with his findings. He'll give a fair, unbiased review and let everyone know if they should go for the 6020 or step up to the Elite.
I agree to a point. Going for an elite vs. a non-elite is a preferential thing (see my post below to turbo10019). D-Nice's assessment is more important to those who are concerned about the loss of a few feature-related controls that might compromise PQ (stuff like noise, DRE, etc). Being that these controls are on the elite, he can make a good comparison between the two (keeping the other shared settings the same) to determine if Pioneer's decision to force certain settings works out or not. If the PQ difference is huge, then folks' fears from a few pages back might be realized (ie: having DRE/Noise/etc forced on users per mode may make the TV less desirable).


6020 and the 110 fd were on display, there was not a 9g elite on display. From my judgement (normal guy 20/20 vision) the 6020 looked as good as an 8g elite (110fd)running the same content. That being said if what all of the sponsors have been saying is true a 9g elite will have a better PQ then a 9g non elite.

I have to say this again as I have already stated it before when it comes to the 8g (and I'll put it in bold to get it in people's heads as I can't believe after all these threads folks still don't get it): With the same settings, the elite is about the same as a non-elite. It is with the added settings and such that the elite starts to look completely different. If folks have read my postings in other threads, you'll notice I value 2 settings that, for me, dramatically affects the viewing experience: colorspace and gamma control. I have countless times used Star Wars as an example. These 2 controls are *NOT* on the non-elite and make a HUGE difference. I have said time and time again that Star Wars looks Theatrical (read: i feel like i'm in the 70s watching the screen) as opposed to feeling I am watching a Fox-TV movie special. I truly miss this flexibility on my current non-elite. Make no mistake, the difference for me is night and day... no lie. Of course, there are other features that can make quite the difference as well (pure mode and distinct colour settings are a couple of them). Anyhow, As said before it is in my opinion it's only if one owns an elite, they'll appreciate the difference. Otherwise, people won't know what they're missing. Notice I highlight *OWN* as in take it home and understand how to use your TV, not stare a the thing in a store and mess with general settings. Standing/sitting in a store does not give you that home-theater experience since you're not at home.

An analogy that I can think of is 2 office chairs made by the same manufacturer and of the same family. They have a similar structural design (similar armrest, legs, etc) with some shared features (hydraulic adjustment to raise/lower seat) as well as generally similar buildiing material (foam inside seat). One chair, however, has the ability to adjust the height of the armrest, a tilt/recline feature with lock, and the seat is made up of real leather (as opposed to synthetic). The first seat is locked in an upright place and the armrest is set to the height of an average woman. One could set up the 2nd seat to be almost exactly like the first seat by adjusting its controls, with only a slight difference due to the real leather. The first seat is designed to be comfortable, however, the 2nd seat can be adjusted much better to the users preferences and body structure to make things much more comfortable. In this case, comfort is synonymous to PQ. Another analogy, I suppose, is my car: 1997 Integra RS vs. GSR (more powerful under certain conditions and has some added features, but basically the same car).

Anyhow, it's up to you guys what you want. I provided my feedback as an owner, not a reviewer, which i think is important. As said before, I owned an elite, sold it, and now i miss it. If I never owned an elite, I would still have loved the non-elite anyhow. You never know what you're missing until it you get the chance to experience it. This is not some fanboy crap... just observations based on experience. It's your loss if you think otherwise.

**EDIT - PLS READ**: By the way, since you said the 6020 looked similar to a Pro-150FD, I am wondering if they decided to use the more pro-settings native to the elite as a default. Stuff like colorspace2 palette (8g non-elites used only colorspace1) as a default would be pretty good for many. This would be really good for some folks out there. One way for you to find out is to go back to the store, and check the elite's settings. If it was set to colorspace2 and looked similar to the 6020, then that's confirmation enough as the difference between colorspace1 & 2 is, well, night and day so you'd notice it right away. :)

LOL wait a second. You practically couldn't tell a difference and still went with the Elite? Why not take the $1k difference and put it towards HT/Blu-ray or savings for 10G or beyond?Elite supports a "Pure" A/V selection, the 50/6020s don't.

If you need someone else to validate this purchase decision for you... look at D-Nice "reference" settings for the 8G Elite Kuros.

If having the second best is not acceptable then you better rethink your decision. 10 lumen tech is right around the corner and they are rumors that LG will be releasing a "infinite contrast" plasma at the end of the summer. The Pioneer elite 151 will be much worse the "second best" in two years tops so your time frame of 5-6 years and having "the best plasma" is wishful thinking.

"And here you were thinking Pioneer would stand alone forever as the only outfit with an "infinite contrast" plasma in its arsenal. Not so, as LG has reportedly developed its own technology in order to produce a PDP with "absolute blackness," and if all goes to plan, we could see it surface by the end of July. Aside from that, we don't know much more about the PG7000 just yet, and while we're told the first model will indeed be 1080p, lower-resolution flavors are slated to follow. Get ready folks -- the battle for blackerness is about to get even darker."
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/14/lgs-pg7000-plasma-claims-infinite-contrast-too/Next year Panasonic will have it's hands on the "secret kuro sauce" too. Can Samsung be far behind?

Does anyone have any further information with respect to the 141FD - i.e. MSRP, ship date, specs, cut sheet, etc.

Additionally, there appears to be some talk that the 141FD doesn't come with a stand. However, the photograph in the first post put up by D-Nice shows it on a stand. Which is it? And if it doesn't come with a stand, how much would it cost to get one from Pioneer - vs buying one from a 151FD owner that is going to mount theirs on the wall.

D-Nice,
Are the bezels on the new 111 and the signature series the same ACRYLIC type of bezel used on the Pro-110FD........? Is the Elite logo hidden inside the bezel........?Yes and yes.

Also.. is it a more sophisticated remote control for the signature series?
Please let me know. Thanks D :-)Not that I know of. The Sig and regular Elites are suppose to share the same remote.

Does anyone have any further information with respect to the 141FD - i.e. MSRP, ship date, specs, cut sheet, etc.

Additionally, there appears to be some talk that the 141FD doesn't come with a stand. However, the photograph in the first post put up by D-Nice shows it on a stand. Which is it? And if it doesn't come with a stand, how much would it cost to get one from Pioneer - vs buying one from a 151FD owner that is going to mount theirs on the wall.The Signature series stand will be sold separately.

One of the biggest things that made me almost not buy from an online dealer is that with most online sellers, if there are pixel issues you have to deal with the manufacturer policys instead of just being able to exchange. IMO a few dead pixels is flat out unacceptable on a brand new top-of-the-line set like a pioneer. I know Pioneer may consider it acceptable but I sure don't.
I wish there was something that could be done about this.
Wouldn't it be nice if some online dealers would offer an optional "pixel perfect guarantee" that you could pay extra 100 bucks or so for? Sorta like an extended warranty but it would only cover pixel defects. I would buy it, how bout you guys? And if Pixel defects are as rare as I have heard, then it could be quite profitable for a company to offer this i think. The extra piece of mind would be worth it for me at least


Did you contact Chris at MountAVision?

The Sig and regular Elites are suppose to share the same remote.

The Sig and regular Elite remotes have differing layouts and the "tool" button on the Sig doesn't work for regular Elite and vice versa.

It seems from the "Official 9g owners" thread that the picture controls in the user menu available in the 6020 are somewhat crippled compared to the 6010. Do any of the jedi masters on this thread feel that this could be a serious issue that would tip the scales in favor of the 8Gs. I am just a young padawan out to buy his first HDTV... on the fence regarding the 8G vs 9G question.

Thanks.

$ 64,000 question

I understand you concerns.
Buying from a B&M store would be much easier. That way if there is damage to the set you can just take it right back and exchange. With online buying you have to wait for a new set to be shipped to you.
The problem for most is that the B&M stores charge so much more money than online dealers. I just cannot pay MSRP. You get a better deal from them.
The trick is to find a reputable dealer that will work with you if something happens.
And most of the forum sponsors are very reputable. Thats why I decided to buy from one this time.
One of the biggest things that made me almost not buy from an online dealer is that with most online sellers, if there are pixel issues you have to deal with the manufacturer policys instead of just being able to exchange. IMO a few dead pixels is flat out unacceptable on a brand new top-of-the-line set like a pioneer. I know Pioneer may consider it acceptable but I sure don't.
I wish there was something that could be done about this.
Wouldn't it be nice if some online dealers would offer an optional "pixel perfect guarantee" that you could pay extra 100 bucks or so for? Sorta like an extended warranty but it would only cover pixel defects. I would buy it, how bout you guys? And if Pixel defects are as rare as I have heard, then it could be quite profitable for a company to offer this i think. The extra piece of mind would be worth it for me at least

Oh, and just to make it clear, The two dead 6010's in a row that I got were not from any forum sponsor. They were from Amazon, Which I will never buy a TV from again. Dealing with problems like that with them is a nightmare. Thier customer service reps (at least the ones I dealt with) were located in India and could barely speak english. Talk about a nightmare!


This is very true, I had back to back problems with two 700U panels, but I had the support of the Forum Sponsor I bought from, so in the end things worked out. Even though it didn't go as I had hoped, the Forum sponsor earned my business, and future business because of they way they helped me deal with the problem, even though Panasonic themselves where awful to deal with. The bottom line is if you buy on-line to save money, you have to understand what could happen and be ready to deal with it if it does.

$ 64,000 question

And for me a good reason to hold off on any purchases. I refuse to buy something I will regret buying in the coming months.

We have the 5020/6020 in the warehouse already!!! to bad we wont be releasing them till the 21st:mad:
BB

Wouldn't it be nice if some online dealers would offer an optional "pixel perfect guarantee" that you could pay extra 100 bucks or so for? Sorta like an extended warranty but it would only cover pixel defects. I would buy it, how bout you guys? And if Pixel defects are as rare as I have heard, then it could be quite profitable for a company to offer this i think. The extra piece of mind would be worth it for me at least


One of the forum sponsors used to offer this to forum members. Do not remember who it was, or, if they are still a sponsor. I think I may have bought ny 5050 from them, but would have to double check.

It was TVA. They offered a Pixel Perfect Protection. I think that's what it was called. They are no longer in business.

It was TVA. They offered a Pixel Perfect Protection. I think that's what it was called. They are no longer in business.

So much for being profitable. :D

It was TVA. They offered a Pixel Perfect Protection. I think that's what it was called. They are no longer in business.Hmm, TVA. I seem to recall they had a penchant for charging one's credit card w/o delivering the PDP.

Read the archives my friend.

I was going to place an order with TVA but the website seems a bit different now :(

"IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING ANY UNFILLED ORDER FROM TV AUTHORITY, PLEASE CALL THE SANTA MONICA CITY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE AT (310) 458-8336 ATTN.: PAULA ROCKENSTEIN"

So much for being profitable. :D

I don't think the pixel perfect protection was their problem. Depending on your perspective, they either had lots of unscrupulous practices that led to their demise or they got caught in the cross-fire with others' unscrupulous practices. A visit to the archives will net you some of the most contentious AVS threads I've had the pleasure to read. Anyway, I wouldn't use them as any indication of how that kind of plan could work.

It was TVA. They offered a Pixel Perfect Protection. I think that's what it was called. They are no longer in business.

Since the manufacturer wont take the units back in some cases you would have to sell it as open box and you can imagine how that could go.

It was TVA. They offered a Pixel Perfect Protection. I think that's what it was called. They are no longer in business.

Well that was both good and bad, the good, they offered Pixel Perfect protection, the bad, they never intended to ship the panels they sold anyway. :D:D:D

Hate to bring up TVA but how did that whole saga conclude? Last I remember "Neil" the owner posted a long "poor me" explanation and promised to right everything but a couple of weeks later, no one heard from him. What happened after that?

Well that was both good and bad, the good, they offered Pixel Perfect protection, the bad, they never intended to ship the panels they sold anyway. :D:D:D


Well, nobody received a panel with stuck pixels, right? :rolleyes:

Hate to bring up TVA but how did that whole saga conclude? Last I remember "Neil" the owner posted a long "poor me" explanation and promised to right everything but a couple of weeks later, no one heard from him. What happened after that?I'm pretty sure they just went out of business.

Hey y'all. I'm trying to figure out what kind of remote to get with my new Kuro. I posted a thread in the remote section - but it's not getting many views, and no responses. If anybody here wants to give a total remote newbie a few tips, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463

Hey y'all. I'm trying to figure out what kind of remote to get with my new Kuro. I posted a thread in the remote section - but it's not getting many views, and no responses. If anybody here wants to give a total remote newbie a few tips, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463

I have the Harmony One and couldn't be happier. Simple to use and all equipment old and new is easily downloaded from Logitech's website via usb.

As much as I enjoy my Harmony 880 it's not without fault. It tends to reboot a fair boot. When tha happens I have to put my hand over the IR and hit the activity again or it'll toggle through the different macro's, turning stuff on/off. Occasionally it'll just forget that it was in an activity and jump back out to the main screen. I have to repeat the hand over the IR again....Weird enough, it used to be fine until I started doing the firmware and software updates!

Next year Panasonic will have it's hands on the "secret kuro sauce" too. Can Samsung be far behind?

Yeah they're far behind and will probably stay that way unless they come up with something on their own. Matsushita (Panasonic) and Pioneer both being Japanese companies will cooperate with each other, but Korean companies LG and Samsung are on their own.

Hey y'all. I'm trying to figure out what kind of remote to get with my new Kuro. I posted a thread in the remote section - but it's not getting many views, and no responses. If anybody here wants to give a total remote newbie a few tips, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463

The new Logitech Harmony One is getting good reviews.

Yes, the pixel guarentee was TVA. They were very reputable at one time, then fell apart.

"And you offer you a 30 day pixel promise on this unit. If you have any visible pixel problems give us a call and we will send you out a new unit."

I bought from Big River last time. Needless to say thier shipping methods were bad. This time I bought from a forum sponsor (Robert @*********************).
there is no way I am paying bestbuy prices. Period. I live in Alabama and there is no negotiating prices at the store here. I tried it once and they looked at me like I was crazy.

As to all the people who keep inferring that the 6020 is going to be such a let down and The Elite is going to be so much better, I would wait until you either get one in your home or D-Nice does his initial eval and review before making such assumptions. So far I have heard no complaints.
D-nices comment on it was that Greyscale will be the same, color will be superior on the elite, and only time will tell about Gamma. And when I asked Robert about it Saturday on the phone he said if I am not going to calibrate professionally then the 6020 should be just as good for me.
So can we please wait until the set is reviewed a little before we get disappointed with it.:)


Certainly not to derail the thread, but try another Best Buy! It's pretty much up to the store manager's discretion whether or not they will negotiate prices. That was a great day for me as an associate when my store decided to begin the practice.

Hey y'all. I'm trying to figure out what kind of remote to get with my new Kuro. I posted a thread in the remote section - but it's not getting many views, and no responses. If anybody here wants to give a total remote newbie a few tips, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463
You pulled the trigger! What model did you decide to go with?