Burnsalkire

You have been on a campaign to convince anyone that will listen than there is no difference in 1080p vs 768p and Elite and Non-Elite based on your own visual assessment. I've glad you found a TV that you like but realize that there are many others who disagree with you.

No problem, disagree to your heart's content:D

Hey y'all. I'm trying to figure out what kind of remote to get with my new Kuro. I posted a thread in the remote section - but it's not getting many views, and no responses. If anybody here wants to give a total remote newbie a few tips, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463

Vashti,

the 880 is a very good remote and you can get it really cheap right now, as the Harmony One is replacing it....The One is likely a bit better, but you will pay about double for it right now on average. I have been quite happy with my 880. The 890 is the same but offers RF feature (control out of room components)

Hope this helps!

Vashti,

the 880 is a very good remote and you can get it really cheap right now, as the Harmony One is replacing it....The One is likely a bit better, but you will pay about double for it right now on average. I have been quite happy with my 880. The 890 is the same but offers RF feature (control out of room components)

Hope this helps!

What is the failure mechanism with these remotes? I've always been reluctant to spend a lot of money on a remote lest the 'last channel viewed' button gets sticky long before the remaining usefullness of the remote is finished.

Well...when I ordered my 151FD from Tweeter they told me I was 3rd in line for their Carolina region. Maybe they were right.

They contacted me today and told me that my 151FD is due in their store on June 24th and would I like to set up a delivery time. They did issue a discliamer, however, by saying the date could change as they were ultimately at the mercy of Pioneer. But based on their previous experiences with Pioneer, slippage dates have only been a matter of days.

If this turns out to be accurate, it puts me in a bit of a quandry. I've been waiting for more information on the Signature series to come out before I make a final decision on which model to choose.

Also, the AVR, BD player, and other gear I was planning to use with the TV won't even be released until late July or Aug. Heck...I don't even have a HD cable box!:p

Hooo boy...decisions, decisions.

San Francisco CA, Best Buy on Masonic ave. I also travel for work and this week I am in St Louis. The Best Buy here said they would have their non elite Pio's on display by this weekend, so I am assuming the higher volume Magnolia stores should have all recieved their non Elite Pio's by now. None of the stores I have visited thus far have been able to quote a price on the new Elites, and none of the stores that I have visited thus far have lowered their prices on thier 8g Elites. I will go to Minneapolis next week and check out the Magnolia's there as it is Best Buy's corporate headquarters they might be ahead of the curve.

Hello,

I have decided to buy a 5020, but will wait until the fall as I must make room and replacing my computer comes first. Supposedly the processor has been improved, which will be of great help as I would have budget conniptions if I have to get an upconverting player or Blu-Ray immediately. It will be interesting to see what the Pioneer looks like when fed from an Elite combi-player (DVL-91). I do have a Marantz DV-8400 (progressive scan, but no upconverting).

Meantime, I'd be interested to read any posts detailing experiences with this plasma and non-upconverting DVD players. Worst case, I'd go for an outboard processor when budget permitted, if results with current equipment alone aren't great. Insights welcome.

How does the processor/scaler in the 6020/151fd compare to those found in the latest pio elite receivers and blu-ray players?

How does the processor/scaler in the 6020/151fd compare to those found in the latest pio elite receivers and blu-ray players?None of those items are available for comparison except the 6020. ;)

Wow, I came home from class to a whole lot of answers. Thanks, y'all. To those who asked what I ordered, it's a 151!! I couldn't be happier. It might have taken me years to save for it - but I think the wait will prove worthwhile. :D

As for all those recommending the Harmony 880 and One, I won't be able to use those. I do need RF capabilities. I'm pretty much deciding between a Harmony 890 and MX-900 - though I'm open to other suggestions. If you want to see the whole story, check out my thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463

I posted there in an attempt not to hijack this one. Thanks.

Well...when I ordered my 151FD from Tweeter they told me I was 3rd in line for their Carolina region. Maybe they were right.

They contacted me today and told me that my 151FD is due in their store on June 24th and would I like to set up a delivery time. They did issue a discliamer, however, by saying the date could change as they were ultimately at the mercy of Pioneer. But based on their previous experiences with Pioneer, slippage dates have only been a matter of days.

If this turns out to be accurate, it puts me in a bit of a quandry. I've been waiting for more information on the Signature series to come out before I make a final decision on which model to choose.

Also, the AVR, BD player, and other gear I was planning to use with the TV won't even be released until late July or Aug. Heck...I don't even have a HD cable box!:p

Hooo boy...decisions, decisions.

Well if you decide to stick with the 151 I will certainly envy the early arrival of your 9g. Despite you and I being from the same area, I doubt I'll see the 111 I plan to buy for probably another 2 months at our local BB Magnolia.

Im thinking of going by there and asking a manager if I can pre order one from them but I have a feeling there just going to tell me they wont have them till late July or early Aug so why put money down on something I wont see for like 2 months:(

I guess you never know unless you ask right? Who knows maybe I'll get the same good news you did. I wont hold my breath though.

I was at my local Magnolia recently and spoke with the Manager. He was very nice and showed me that 7 151FDs had already been preordered and paid in full, at full MSRP. He also said that this whole area was getting 15 in the first shipment and that he thought they would all go very quickly...I agreed. The advice was that if I wanted to get one in the first shipment, that I'd better order now. I told him I didn't like paying full list for anything and he agreed. He said that those 7 preorders didn't even ask for a discount.

I was at my local Magnolia recently and spoke with the Manager. He was very nice and showed me that 7 151FDs had already been preordered and paid in full, at full MSRP. He also said that this whole area was getting 15 in the first shipment and that he thought they would all go very quickly...I agreed. The advice was that if I wanted to get one in the first shipment, that I'd better order now. I told him I didn't like paying full list for anything and he agreed. He said that those 7 preorders didn't even ask for a discount.

Good to know and I appreciate your help!

While I agree with you totally Nambit, especially now that I have a 6010FD on loan, but people only want to hear or believe whatever they want to believe. No matter how many times D-Nice or I have said, the Elites are better, every 5 pages there is a post about Elite vs Non-Elite and it starts again.

I have an 1140HD, had a 150FD, and a 6010FD and I'm sorry... out of the box the Elites were much better when put to the Pure mode setting compared to the non-elites Movie mode.

This may be different with the 9Gs, but so far with the 8Gs those are my thoughts.

Okay, I've gone from an Elite 8G to a non-elite (as I am moving I sold the TV
and have a non-elite to tide me over).

Let me get to the point:

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!

There, that's it. I've had an elite in my home, and I dearly miss it :(. The
non-elite is amazingly nice, but it's definitely not nearly as good, professionally
calibrated or not. In my case, $1000 extra is worth every single penny. Even
my brother and his wife notice the difference.

people only want to hear or believe whatever they want to believe.

I concur. On the other thread somebody actually claim that the Panasonic 800U is close to Kuro. :D

At 6'-7' I'd go 111FD. Looking at the viewing distance chartt, that's mighty close to a 60". You'll be at the realm of 1440p.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html


Cool thanks D-Nice!!





Any thoughts on why russwong and nambit (and his brother and wife) notice 'night and day' PQ difference after swapping out their Elite for non-Elites? and how much PQ difference there is between the two (without calibration)? If you had to go with a 111FD or 6020FD for a 6-7ft viewing distance what would you do?

This may be different with the 9Gs, but so far with the 8Gs those are my thoughts.

What do you predict though? I think it will be even more noticeable this time.

Wow, I came home from class to a whole lot of answers. Thanks, y'all. To those who asked what I ordered, it's a 151!! I couldn't be happier. It might have taken me years to save for it - but I think the wait will prove worthwhile. :D

As for all those recommending the Harmony 880 and One, I won't be able to use those. I do need RF capabilities. I'm pretty much deciding between a Harmony 890 and MX-900 - though I'm open to other suggestions. If you want to see the whole story, check out my thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463

I posted there in an attempt not to hijack this one. Thanks.
Go with the MX-900. I had a Harmony 550 and replaced it with a MX-980. Much better unit and definitely worth the extra money.

What do you predict though? I think it will be even more noticeable this time.

I am sorry to say that I am starting to think you might be right.
I hope you are wrong though, especially since I ordered a 6020 already instead of holding out for the 151. I never knew about the color temp setting being removed from the 6020 until I had already ordered. I guess I missed that one. Either way, If the Elite is much better, I still think the 6020 will have the second best PQ out there, and that includes last years 150 also. and thats still not too shabby!

Agreed :)

What do you predict though? I think it will be even more noticeable this time.

I predict that the Sponsors who sell the Elites, will concur the Elites are noticeably better ... :p

As for all those recommending the Harmony 880 and One, I won't be able to use those. I do need RF capabilities. I'm pretty much deciding between a Harmony 890 and MX-900 - though I'm open to other suggestions.Our Harmany 1000 has RF cababilities.

edit: 06/06/2008

I predict that the Sponsors who sell the Elites, will concur the Elites are noticeably better ... :p

I predict that those unbiased folks that review these units (say D-Nice and others) will concur the Elites are noticeably better.

I predict that the Sponsors who sell the Elites, will concur the Elites are noticeably better ... :p

:) All you have to do is look at my post history (it will take a while but you will know that I am unbiased) ;)

:) All you have to do is look at my post history (it will take a while but you will know that I am unbiased) ;)

I'll vouch for that.

Roman has always said that the Elites were the better sets, even when he was working for Invision (who don't sell Elites online).

Time will tell. Hopefully sooner than later.

I predict my prediction will have 100% accuracy ... and your prediction will have 90% accuracy ;)

Wow, I came home from class to a whole lot of answers. Thanks, y'all. To those who asked what I ordered, it's a 151!! I couldn't be happier. It might have taken me years to save for it - but I think the wait will prove worthwhile. :D

As for all those recommending the Harmony 880 and One, I won't be able to use those. I do need RF capabilities. I'm pretty much deciding between a Harmony 890 and MX-900 - though I'm open to other suggestions. If you want to see the whole story, check out my thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463

I posted there in an attempt not to hijack this one. Thanks.

Congratulations Vashti!!!

I am sorry to say that I am starting to think you might be right.
I hope you are wrong though, especially since I ordered a 6020 already instead of holding out for the 151. I never knew about the color temp setting being removed from the 6020 until I had already ordered. I guess I missed that one. Either way, If the Elite is much better, I still think the 6020 will have the second best PQ out there, and that includes last years 150 also. and thats still not too shabby!

I'll buy your 6020 off of you for a great price ;) in a few months when you decide that you can't live without the 151.

Time will tell. Hopefully sooner than later.

Agreed ... I am patiently waiting for D-nice's opinion (EDIT: plus Robert's 'Shoot-out') and then going to weigh the price differential

The 'predicting' was a joke :o

http://gizmodo.com/5013722/sony-hosts-xbr8-led-lcd-vs-plasma-shootout-youll-never-guess-who-wins

Let the analysis begin. I have no idea how real this is, or not, but would love to know.

[Update] just so its clear where Im headed, I have a 5020 on pre order - although nothing from inivision about when to expect it beyond late june :(

Agreed ... I am patiently waiting for D-nice's opinion and then going to weigh the price differential

The 'predicting' was a joke :o


Isn't it the pitts. The Elite is going to win out, but the price differential is in the eyes of the beholder and wallet. I have always been the believer that it only cost a few bucks more to go first class, unfortunately, I am retired and in a fixed income bracket now. Funny how prior beliefs come back to haunt you. Also, $1k isn't a few bucks more in most folks view. But I still reallllllly want the 151. If I never see it, the 6020 will probably do.

While I agree with you totally Nambit, especially now that I have a 6010FD on loan, but people only want to hear or believe whatever they want to believe. No matter how many times D-Nice or I have said, the Elites are better, every 5 pages there is a post about Elite vs Non-Elite and it starts again.

I have an 1140HD, had a 150FD, and a 6010FD and I'm sorry... out of the box the Elites were much better when put to the Pure mode setting compared to the non-elites Movie mode.

This may be different with the 9Gs, but so far with the 8Gs those are my thoughts.

Originally Posted by Nambit View Post
Okay, I've gone from an Elite 8G to a non-elite (as I am moving I sold the TV
and have a non-elite to tide me over).

Let me get to the point:

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!

There, that's it. I've had an elite in my home, and I dearly miss it . The
non-elite is amazingly nice, but it's definitely not nearly as good, professionally
calibrated or not. In my case, $1000 extra is worth every single penny. Even
my brother and his wife notice the difference.


OK I think most of us agree that Elite's will most likely be a tad better however "THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!! is a little over the top. The 6020's look great so the Elite's would have to be mind-blowingly better than any display ever seen or dreamed of to be "night and day different".

OK I think most of us agree that Elite's will most likely be a tad better however "THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!! is a little over the top. The 6020's look great so the Elite's would have to be mind-blowingly better than any display ever seen or dreamed of to be "night and day different".

I think that the "night and day" reference could only be determined by someone that has had both units in a home environment. This seems to be strictly a PQ reference without regard to price difference.

Not all of us have the pocket book to go to an elite. I am already stretching mine pretty far to go from the 58" Panny 800U to the Pioneer 6020. I just can't stretch anymore. I know some of you can see the difference and have deeper pockets than mine. I'm sure I'll be thrilled with the 6020 when it arrives and I'm not looking back.

Congrats to all of you who get the tv that is best for you. The 6020 is best for me. :)

Hello,i;m ordering a Pioneer Pro1150 tomorrow but not getting one with a pioneer waranty and was wondering how long have you had your pioneer and how quick you waranty company responded and whose your company who responded.How did it go.?

I need to buy an extended waranty and read alittle on this site about MACK and N.E.W. from amazion but didnt see them at amazon.Anyway trying to get some feedback on who might be good to go with ?? in the new york new jersery area ?? and also curious how much yours have broke ??these models did come out about a year ago,now there $1000 to $1300 less.

I think that the "night and day" reference could only be determined by someone that has had both units in a home environment. This seems to be strictly a PQ reference without regard to price difference.

"Night and Day" is like "Black and White"..... sorry.... they're just not going to be THAT different.

http://gizmodo.com/5013722/sony-hosts-xbr8-led-lcd-vs-plasma-shootout-youll-never-guess-who-wins

Let the analysis begin. I have no idea how real this is, or not, but would love to know.

[Update] just so its clear where Im headed, I have a 5020 on pre order - although nothing from inivision about when to expect it beyond late june :(

That's great and all, but unless the 55" XBR8 is priced in between the 50" and 60" non-elite Kuros (doubtful), the Pioneer is still the superior choice for value. I mean, what's the point in claiming your as good as the competing technology if your 2x the price to achieve that? In my book, that's the fast track to extinction.

I would love it if someone would do a blind test of the elites and non-elites with only the screen showing to see if even videophiles can tell the difference between the two, calibrated or not calibrated.

grider, the thing you are noticing is that "The Difference is Night and Day!!" is a subjective comment; just like your "a little over the top" comment is subjective, as well.

I would love it if someone would do a blind test of the elites and non-elites with only the screen showing to see if even videophiles can tell the difference between the two, calibrated or not calibrated.

I'd love to see something like that done as well, but I doubt we'll see such a comparison for quite some time(if at all).

I'd love to see something like that done as well, but I doubt we'll see such a comparison for quite some time(if at all).

That would be a great thing to do.

Robert had mentioned a flat-panel shoot out coming soon.
It would be cool if they did this then wouldn't it?
but I am not sure if Pioneer would appreciate that. What if it concluded that most could not tell a difference? elite sales would suffer probably.

That would be a great thing to do.

Robert had mentioned a flat-panel shoot out coming soon.
It would be cool if they did this then wouldn't it?

+1

Hello,i;m ordering a Pioneer Pro1150 tomorrow but not getting one with a pioneer waranty and was wondering how long have you had your pioneer and how quick you waranty company responded and whose your company who responded.How did it go.?

I need to buy an extended waranty and read alittle on this site about MACK and N.E.W. from amazion but didnt see them at amazon.Anyway trying to get some feedback on who might be good to go with ?? in the new york new jersery area ?? and also curious how much yours have broke ??these models did come out about a year ago,now there $1000 to $1300 less.

I am sorry to say that I am starting to think you might be right.
I hope you are wrong though, especially since I ordered a 6020 already instead of holding out for the 151. I never knew about the color temp setting being removed from the 6020 until I had already ordered. I guess I missed that one. Either way, If the Elite is much better, I still think the 6020 will have the second best PQ out there, and that includes last years 150 also. and thats still not too shabby!
Chad,

I've followed a few of your posts and I have to say I feel your angst over this purchase. I have been squarely in your shoes on many such items in my life, (although it's usually been over camera gear or, long ago, high end audio gear).

What I've learned over the years is that on those times where I've stretched to get the top dog piece of gear instead of "settling" for second best, I've later come to realize that 9 times out of 10 the lower ranking/priced item would probably have been the wiser choice. I suspect I have quite a few years on you, so I thought I'd take a chance and offer a view from my perspective.

While I am getting the Elite (or perhaps the Signature) I highly suspect that the 6020 would be more than good enough for my purposes. It's just that I'm fortunate to have finally reached a point in my life where a purchase like this is not all that large, relatively speaking.

After all...this is only a TV, for goodness sake. It's not quite the same as trying to decide between paying for the top ranked cancer surgeon in the region vs. the local sawbones. Looking down the barrel of something like that really puts things in perspective, let me tell you.

It sounds like you've made a great choice with the 6020. This is going to be an outstanding TV and give you many years of great enjoyment. Virtually 99% of the rest of the TV owning world won't have anything nearly as nice.

After you get it, do yourself a favor and stop reading this doggon forum! I had to do that with my camera gear as posts on the next latest and greatest thing only stoked my gear lust.

Hope I haven't intruded with my take on your situation. It's just that I've indentified with you in your angst, and thought I'd give my unsolicited two cents...for whatever it's worth.

I preordered a 111-FD (that hopefully arrives at the end of the month) and also plan on getting the 05 blue-ray player (which will arrive whenever). Does anyone know whether the 05 will do 480i out through HDMI without upscaling so I can use the better internal scaler of the 111-FD itself?

That would be a great thing to do.

Robert had mentioned a flat-panel shoot out coming soon.
It would be cool if they did this then wouldn't it?
but I am not sure if Pioneer would appreciate that. What if it concluded that most could not tell a difference? elite sales would suffer probably.

chadmak09, I've already decided to have the following panels next to each other;

PRO-111FD, PRO5010FD, PRO5020FD plus the usual suspects from Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Toshiba, Sony and whoever else you or anyone else recommends that is in or near the same category, Of course, we are only looking or the top of the line flagship models of LED, LCD and plasma technologies.

We still need a volunteer to set-up an IP cast and for members to recommend any additional panels they want to see. Only very high end panels please.

Here's the link to the AVS Forum flat panel shoot out thread.

-Robert

Chad,

I've followed a few of your posts and I have to say I feel your angst over this purchase. I have been squarely in your shoes on many such items in my life, (although it's usually been over camera gear or, long ago, high end audio gear).

What I've learned over the years is that on those times where I've stretched to get the top dog piece of gear instead of "settling" for second best, I've later come to realize that 9 times out of 10 the lower ranking/priced item would probably have been the wiser choice. I suspect I have quite a few years on you, so I thought I'd take a chance and offer a view from my perspective.

While I am getting the Elite (or perhaps the Signature) I highly suspect that the 6020 would be more than good enough for my purposes. It's just that I'm fortunate to have finally reached a point in my life where a purchase like this is not all that large, relatively speaking.

After all...this is only a TV, for goodness sake. It's not quite the same as trying to decide between paying for the top ranked cancer surgeon in the region vs. the local sawbones. Looking down the barrel of something like that really puts things in perspective, let me tell you.

It sounds like you've made a great choice with the 6020. This is going to be an outstanding TV and give you many years of great enjoyment. Virtually 99% of the rest of the TV owning world won't have anything nearly as nice.

After you get it, do yourself a favor and stop reading this doggon forum! I had to do that with my camera gear as posts on the next latest and greatest thing only stoked my gear lust.

Hope I haven't intruded with my take on your situation. It's just that I've indentified with you in your angst, and thought I'd give my unsolicited two cents...for whatever it's worth.

+1 Certainly some needed and wise advice for anyone struggling with the same decision.

chadmak09, I've already decided to have the following panels next to each other;

PRO-111FD, PRO5010FD, PRO5020FD plus the usual suspects from Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Toshiba, Sony and whoever else you or anyone else recommends that is in or near the same category, Of course, we are only looking or the top of the line flagship models of LED, LCD and plasma technologies.

We still need a volunteer to set-up an IP cast and for members to recommend any additional panels they want to see. Only very high end panels please.

Here's the link to the AVS Forum flat panel shoot out thread.

-Robert


Robert, did you get my PM?

chadmak09, I've already decided to have the following panels next to each other;

PRO-111FD, PRO5010FD, PRO5020FD plus the usual suspects from Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Toshiba, Sony and whoever else you or anyone else recommends that is in or near the same category, Of course, we are only looking or the top of the line flagship models of LED, LCD and plasma technologies.

We still need a volunteer to set-up an IP cast and for members to recommend any additional panels they want to see. Only very high end panels please.

Here's the link to the AVS Forum flat panel shoot out thread.

-Robert

Robert,
Any 8g elites? Would you be opposed to someone bring their own if not?
Would help me with my process :)

I would love it if someone would do a blind test of the elites and non-elites with only the screen showing to see if even videophiles can tell the difference between the two, calibrated or not calibrated.

What are your thoughts on it? I think many could tell at least a small difference...but could be dead wrong.
I may have been biased and wanted my Elite to look better, but it at least seems to over the 5080 I had before it.

What are your thoughts on it? I think many could tell at least a small difference...but could be dead wrong.
I may have been biased and wanted my Elite to look better, but it at least seems to over the 5080 I had before it.
My gut tells me that just as in many blind wine tastings a significant percentage of people (maybe even a majority) will PREFER the non-Elite picture to the Elite, even videophiles.
But that's just my instinct talking, I could be dead wrong.

What do you predict though? I think it will be even more noticeable this time.

With limited color adjustment controls on the 9g non-Elites Roman, I think you're right on target.

Wow, I came home from class to a whole lot of answers. Thanks, y'all. To those who asked what I ordered, it's a 151!! I couldn't be happier. It might have taken me years to save for it - but I think the wait will prove worthwhile. :D



Vashti, I didn't think I'd live to see it!!!! :D

Congrats and a half! You'll soon see what all the fuss has been with the Kuros. Good luck (you won't need it!). :)

Hey y'all. I'm trying to figure out what kind of remote to get with my new Kuro. I posted a thread in the remote section - but it's not getting many views, and no responses. If anybody here wants to give a total remote newbie a few tips, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036463

Harmony One, best remote I've had...and I've had more than I care to mention! Up until this one, I always had problems with one design feature or another on the Harmony.

chadmak09, I've already decided to have the following panels next to each other;

PRO-111FD, PRO5010FD, PRO5020FD plus the usual suspects from Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Toshiba, Sony and whoever else you or anyone else recommends that is in or near the same category, Of course, we are only looking or the top of the line flagship models of LED, LCD and plasma technologies.

We still need a volunteer to set-up an IP cast and for members to recommend any additional panels they want to see. Only very high end panels please.

Here's the link to the AVS Forum flat panel shoot out thread.

-Robert

I wish you could also set up a PRO-110FD. Mainly I want to see how it compares with the 5020. I think it would be more interesting than having the 5010 present.

I am sorry to say that I am starting to think you might be right.
I hope you are wrong though, especially since I ordered a 6020 already instead of holding out for the 151. I never knew about the color temp setting being removed from the 6020 until I had already ordered. I guess I missed that one. Either way, If the Elite is much better, I still think the 6020 will have the second best PQ out there, and that includes last years 150 also. and thats still not too shabby!

You're going to want a 10G anyway next year. I suggest not worry about the elites and put the $1k+ you saved this year into next years models and I'm guessing there will be 58", 65", and possibly largers sizes available.

While I agree with you totally Nambit, especially now that I have a 6010FD on loan, but people only want to hear or believe whatever they want to believe. No matter how many times D-Nice or I have said, the Elites are better, every 5 pages there is a post about Elite vs Non-Elite and it starts again.

I have an 1140HD, had a 150FD, and a 6010FD and I'm sorry... out of the box the Elites were much better when put to the Pure mode setting compared to the non-elites Movie mode.

This may be different with the 9Gs, but so far with the 8Gs those are my thoughts.

Russ,

Have you tried the SM change settigs Dnice posted a while back?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13001984&postcount=6763

Would love to hear your feedback after trying those out.

Congrats to all of you who get the tv that is best for you. The 6020 is best for me. :)

How sure are you the 6020 is better than the 6010? The 6010 may be better if you are going to calibrate it. More freedom to fine tune. If you hate Movie mode because its too dim and want DRE off, then the 6020 is a terribly ill-advised choice because based on early reports those two settings are locked with each other. Nearly every review I have ever read has all the noise reduction turned off, but with the 5020 that will be locked on. Add the colorspace issue, less flexibilty gamma, and fewer inputs, that reduction in blacks better be pretty good rather than barely perceptible. Otherwise, the 6010 will be the better choice.

Why can't we just wait until the damn thing gets reviewed by people in the know before jumping to conclusions on every page of this thread? :rolleyes:

Wow, I came home from class to a whole lot of answers. Thanks, y'all. To those who asked what I ordered, it's a 151!! I couldn't be happier. It might have taken me years to save for it - but I think the wait will prove worthwhile. :D


Congrats and I too have wanted you to have a TV for so long! Glad you finally did and I know you will be thrilled. :) Hopefully your roommate won't think it too large......;)

OK I think most of us agree that Elite's will most likely be a tad better however "THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!! is a little over the top. The 6020's look great so the Elite's would have to be mind-blowingly better than any display ever seen or dreamed of to be "night and day different".

Why is it that folks still don't understand what I mean about the difference
being night and day? You get a completely different image because of the extra
settings. Ever used a photo editor on a picture? Notice how you can change
the photo to look like it was made in the 60's with some tools? Heck, notice
how some commercials are made to look retro thanks to the way they film it?
That's what I mean. Because of a complete change in colour palette and gamma
settings, the entire experience of viewing may change, hence my term. Why
is it so hard to understand we are not talking apples to apples here?! I've
already said it's using the stuff that's not available on the non-elite that makes
things different, otherwise it's similar.

Bah, that's all I'm going to say on the matter. I've tried to explain things and help
folks out, but apparently being an owner of a TV automatically makes you 'biased',
yet folks come clamoring to you for opinions on a new set. It's irritating and not
worth my time to explain. Russwong is kinda right: People's minds are made up so
don't bother explaining yourself. Folks can go on comparing a 5.1 sound system to
a 2.1 sound system by disabling the extra 3 speakers and feeding it 2.1 input as
that's what we're dealing with here. You don't know until you allow the 5.1 to show
its extras. Anyhow, I'm done with this debate and explaining myself. As a professional
store once explained to me: "We calibrate the elite & non-elite under similar conditions
as it would mislead the consumer otherwise" (referring to a professional calibrator over
an average joe calibration).

Why is it that folks still don't understand what I mean about the difference
being night and day?

Bah, that's all I'm going to say on the matter. I've tried to explain things and help
folks out, but apparently being an owner of a TV automatically makes you 'biased',
yet folks come clamoring to you for opinions on a new set. It's irritating and not
worth my time to explain. Russwong is kinda right: People's minds are made up so
don't bother explaining yourself. In terms of the viewer's experience there is a "night & day" difference between SD & HD content... after that... not so much.

D-Nice,
Did you receive your 6020? :)

Eric

D-Nice,
Did you receive your 6020? :)

Eric2PM today :)

I would love it if someone would do a blind test of the elites and non-elites with only the screen showing to see if even videophiles can tell the difference between the two, calibrated or not calibrated.

I said the same thing earlier in this thread and it wasn't received very well.
It was like "how dare you say such a thing"!!:eek:

2PM today :)
Need a hand unpacking it? I could make a 90 min drive up the road.:D
(Just kidding, of course)

The monitor version of this that will come out in October will be

A. Higher in price
B. Lower
C. Same

TIA

Edit: Well after reading the article again, apparently they will be more. I guess now the question is "How much more?"

Need a hand unpacking it? I could make a 90 min drive up the road.:D
(Just kidding, of course):D

2PM today :)

Do you intend to do a little first impression comments? ;)

It will help us to wait the after break-in full review.... :)

Eric

Do you intend to do a little first impression comments? ;)

It will help us to wait the after break-in full review.... :)

Haha help is a relative term. :rolleyes: First impressions would rule! :D

D-Nice, do you live in NC?

;14026371']D-Nice, do you live in NC?SC

Do you intend to do a little first impression comments? ;)

It will help us to wait the after break-in full review.... :)

EricThe first thing I want to do is measure the minimum luminance level. I doubt I'll put any real video to the panel until after the break-in proceedure.....but that may change ;)

SC

Ah, small freaking world! NC Here. 30 minutes from the SC state line.

I doubt I'll put any real video to the panel until after the break-in proceedureIs this going to be your PDP... or is it "borrowed?" (nod, wink)

If you own this display, will you use the break-in DVD?

;14026410']Ah, small freaking world! NC Here. 30 minutes from the SC state line.

Only 6 hrs from here. :mad:

Is this going to be your PDP... or is it "borrowed?" (nod, wink)Evaluation unit.

If you own this display, will you use the break-in DVD?I'm going to use the break-in DVD on this display just as I've used it on the displays I own.

D-Nice....I am really on the fence between a 5020 or the Elite version (if the Elite will be available in Sweden) and the XBR8. I think they will all be great sets, and price versus performance will probably play a part in my decision.

Please gets some initial impressions up this weekend if at all possible with Blu ray demo material. Preferably something challenging in terms of shadow detail. Possibly even some non-final initial impressions regarding if the non-defeatable image enhancements reak any obvious havok.

That would MAKE my weekend!:)

Thanks in advance and I look forward to the full review as it will be my baseline review for the Non elite 9g and help inform my purchase decision.

Who is this D-Nice guy and why are we waiting on his evaluation?! Is he some PDP God????

Just kidding! Haha :)

D-Nice, I really can't wait to hear your impressions of the 6020. I really want to hear how the 9g's stack up even with some of the menu options missing. What set are you going to be owning? Are you getting the 151?

Who is this D-Nice guy and why are we waiting on his evaluation?! Is he some PDP God????Yup

Evaluation unit.

I'm going to use the break-in DVD on this display just as I've used it on the displays I own.

Do you have the ability to check gray scale, etc since there are no color temps?

bob

Now you guys know D-Nice is going to break that thing in before he posts impressions. Maybe he could post pictures of the box to hold everyone over. Have fun D!

Hey D,

How long until you think you may have some first thought's posted??

Hey D, How long until you think you may have some first thought's posted??

The thread-equivalent of 'Are we there yet???' :rolleyes: 'When we get there I'll letcha know. Here, play with this PSP. And don't make me pull over the car!!' ;):D

Is he some PDP God????



Yes. :D

Let him do his thing in his usual manner.
:)

The thread-equivalent of 'Are we there yet???' :rolleyes: 'When we get there I'll letcha know. Here, play with this PSP. And don't make me pull over the car!!' ;):D

I need to go to the bathroom!!:D:D

D-Nice....I am really on the fence between a 5020 or the Elite version (if the Elite will be available in Sweden) and the XBR8. I think they will all be great sets, and price versus performance will probably play a part in my decision.

Please gets some initial impressions up this weekend if at all possible with Blu ray demo material. Preferably something challenging in terms of shadow detail. Possibly even some non-final initial impressions regarding if the non-defeatable image enhancements reak any obvious havok.

That would MAKE my weekend!:)

Thanks in advance and I look forward to the full review as it will be my baseline review for the Non elite 9g and help inform my purchase decision.

You may have to wait a bit. The break in period alone will take 6.25 days. So he probably won't have any "real" evaluations about video quality till the 12th or 13th of June. He might ring in before then about very first impressions, but they probably will be brief and could change after the break-in.

The break in period alone will take 6.25 days.

It scares me to have the display on all this time for the break-in. Do you really need to go trough that? Oh my.:confused:

Hey D,

How long until you think you may have some first thought's posted??


One whole Year :)

I would just like to hear from someone who has the 8g and 9g side by side for comparison. As it stands right now a normal person is not going to know the difference when they receive the 9g.

It scares me to have the display on all this time for the break-in. Do you really need to go trough that? Oh my.:confused:


This thought has crossed my mind too. I haven't decided if I really NEED to do a break-in or not. I'll probably be watching mine for 3-4 hours a night anyway; a mixture of SD content, HD cable content, a little PS3 and 360 gaming, and Blu-Ray movies. I would think that (as long we're not using the "torch settings") we'd be quite safe.

FYI...BB in Ohio said they could order the 5020 today, 6/6, and have it at their store for pick up on 6/10. So, to the previous posts, they do have it in their warehouse and available for purchase, just not on display or website.

Alright... Hate to do this, but...
D-Nice has had the thing for about 1 hour (give or take a couple of minutes) assuming the delivery was on schedule...

AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING!!!
AHHHHHH!
The sky is falling!

It scares me to have the display on all this time for the break-in. Do you really need to go trough that? Oh my.:confused:I do not like the idea of running a PDP continuously & unmonitored for many hours at a stretch. Turn it off for awhile & give it a rest. Watching full-screen content will achieve the same result.

Alright... Hate to do this, but...
D-Nice has had the thing for about 1 hour (give or take a couple of minutes) assuming the delivery was on schedule...

AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING!!!
AHHHHHH!
The sky is falling!


I hear ya. I tune in like every half hour to see if D has posted anything...
The wait is torturous.

Alright... Hate to do this, but...
D-Nice has had the thing for about 1 hour (give or take a couple of minutes) assuming the delivery was on schedule...

AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING!!!
AHHHHHH!
The sky is falling!Perhaps his display was DOA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_on_arrival) :eek:

or maybe it arrived in this condition :eek::eek:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/cracked_panny.JPG

If it arrived in that condition then everyone would have to wait another 2 weeks..........:eek:

I do not like the idea of running a PDP continuously & unmonitored for many hours at a stretch. Turn it off for awhile & give it a rest. Watching full-screen content will achieve the same result.

That's how I feel too. I understand the importance of the break-in but man, I can't imagine having the monitor non-stop for 6 or 7 days straight. I would not sleep well, specially knowing the money I am spending on it.:eek:

chadmak09, I've already decided to have the following panels next to each other;

PRO-111FD, PRO5010FD, PRO5020FD plus the usual suspects from Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Toshiba, Sony and whoever else you or anyone else recommends that is in or near the same category, Of course, we are only looking or the top of the line flagship models of LED, LCD and plasma technologies.

We still need a volunteer to set-up an IP cast and for members to recommend any additional panels they want to see. Only very high end panels please.

Here's the link to the AVS Forum flat panel shoot out thread.

-Robert

Robert, perhaps include the 150HD in there as the token 720p panel?

I do not like the idea of running a PDP continuously & unmonitored for many hours at a stretch. Turn it off for awhile & give it a rest. Watching full-screen content will achieve the same result.
I've had my set for a week and watched a mix of content, HD, SD, and DVD's. I also used the break-in disc D-nice recommended, overnight and while I was at work.
The pic looks great.

-kkgsxr

Robert, perhaps include the 150HD in there as the token 720p panel?The 150 is 1080p. Did you mean the 1150??

Perhaps his display was DOA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_on_arrival) :eek:

or maybe it arrived in this condition :eek::eek:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/cracked_panny.JPG

Can anyone say suicidal? Or homicide of the delivery driver?
P.S. I that a Pani? If so, just goes to prove that Pio is better! LOL ;)

That's how I feel to. I understand the importance of the break-in but man, I can't imagine having the monitor non-stop for 6 or 7 days straight. I would not sleep well, specially knowing the money I am spending on it.:eek:I've got $13,000 invested into (2) PDPs, a TH-50PX50U and a PRO-150FD. I have never used the break-in DVD with either panel and neither screen has any IR.

Of course my viewing habits are good for phosphor based displays: I'm not a gamer (although I will let my nephew game "occasionally" on my PRO-150FD), I don't mind watching "stretched" SD content and I don't rent a lot of DVDs, although I have no problem watching DVDs that are typically encoded with 2.35:1 OAR. I was very cautious with my panels during the first few hundred hours of operation but watch them any way I want to now, while keeping in mind to balance out the use of black bars & static images with as much full-screen content as possible.

I practice what I preach.

Can anyone say suicidal? Or homicide of the delivery driver?
P.S. I that a Pani? If so, just goes to prove that Pio is better! LOL ;)Yes that was a pic of another member's Panasonic PDP, in my "image repository" of "broken" dreams...

here is another:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/deathOfaPanny.bmp

or maybe it arrived in this condition :eek::eek:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/cracked_panny.JPGThis is exactly how it came. Sorry guys, I had to refuse the 6020 as the screen had multiple cracks in it. I've already spoken to Robert and a new panel is on it's way.

Wow. That sucks big time. I think moreso for us, though! We were all anticipating your thoughts.

Hopefully you'll get the replacement very soon!

Wow. That sucks big time. I think moreso for us, though! We were all anticipating your thoughts.

Hopefully you'll get the replacement very soon!
Yes, Robert said he is expediting a new one.

This is exactly how it came. Sorry guys, I had to refuse the 6020 as the screen had multiple cracks in it. I've already spoken to Robert and a new panel is on it's way.:(:(:(

This is exactly how it came. Sorry guys, I had to refuse the 6020 as the screen had multiple cracks in it. I've already spoken to Robert and a new panel is on it's way.

You're joking aren't you? That silence is everyone with their mouth ajar.

This is exactly how it came. Sorry guys, I had to refuse the 6020 as the screen had multiple cracks in it. I've already spoken to Robert and a new panel is on it's way.

WTF! This is unacceptable. It's the second time in 2 days. Who ends up paying for this? The insurance companies or the shipping companies?

You're joking aren't you? That silence is everyone with their mouth ajar.No joke. First ever damaged plasma

WTF! This is unacceptable. It's the second time in 2 days. Who ends up paying for this? The insurance companies or the shipping companies?

This is how my first 700U showed up, if my 6020 shows up broken, some one is getting beat. :mad:

This is exactly how it came. Sorry guys, I had to refuse the 6020 as the screen had multiple cracks in it. I've already spoken to Robert and a new panel is on it's way.D-Nice... I am sorry... I was kidding with "dbgrayson" and didn't really believe you would be the unlucky recipient of a damaged PDP too.

No joke. First ever damaged plasma

Unbelievable. Now I've gotta wait even longer to make my decision. Uggggggggh.

Perhaps his display was DOA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_on_arrival) :eek:

or maybe it arrived in this condition :eek::eek:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/cracked_panny.JPG

Dude! You totally jinked him! :(

+1

Dude! You totally jinked him! :(Oh now c'mon... I'm ~1000 miles away.

No joke. First ever damaged plasma

Wow what are the odds :(

WTF! This is unacceptable. It's the second time in 2 days. Who ends up paying for this? The insurance companies or the shipping companies?

Depends, majority of the time shipping companies

Again... Suicidal? Or wait, D-Nice can you give us the driver's name and a brief description?

That's how I feel to. I understand the importance of the break-in but man, I can't imagine having the monitor non-stop for 6 or 7 days straight. I would not sleep well, specially knowing the money I am spending on it.:eek:

I would run my breakins 24 hours at a time, then give it a few hours rest. I would periodically check in to make sure all is well. It is also a good way to see if you have a problem with the power supply or electronics. As long as the room is ventilated, it shouldn't be a problem.

I know it has been discussed a million times, but the solid colors of the breakin DVD with D-Nice's hot settings do a much better job of uniformly aging the phosphors than just full screen material does in my opinion. I've used the breakin DVD on 4 plasma sets now and have never had a hint of IR or burn in. I've also been fortunate to have no dead or stuck pixels either. I'm not attributing that to the break in procedure, just mentioning it as a side note.

Just as anything else in life, it is your set and do with it as you see best.

Perhaps his display was DOA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_on_arrival) :eek:

or maybe it arrived in this condition :eek::eek:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/cracked_panny.JPGThat may have been one of the worst possible things to say, as the HDTV Gods saw D-Nice's TV as inferior. Maybe they are trying to secretly convince him that he should give up on the non-elites (NOOOOO) and buy more Elites... Maybe they are saying that he needs to stay as our settings man for Pioneers forever. IT IS A SIGN!

Sorry D-Nice; following this thread is better than watching an episode of 24! Still very much looking forward to your impressions. Also glad you opened the box before the driver left.

Sorry D-Nice; following this thread is better than watching an episode of 24! Still very much looking forward to your impressions. Also glad you opened the box before the driver left.errr. 24 is pretty good. This thread still has its fair share of action/drama.

Depends, majority of the time shipping companiesI took delivery of a $1400(+) clothes washer last Saturday:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/lg-steam-washer.JPG

while the delivery men were professional & knew what they were doing (strapped walked it into my home) they were not shy about moving the appliance around. If it had been a PDP... well

Now you guys know D-Nice is going to break that thing in before he posts impressions. Maybe he could post pictures of the box to hold everyone over. Have fun D!

Looks like the shipper broke it in for him...:(

No pictures of the cracked panel D?

Looks like the shipper broke it in for him...:(Literally :( He broke it in. All of us wish a speedy new 6020 for all of our sakes.


I know you already meant that.

This is exactly how it came. Sorry guys, I had to refuse the 6020 as the screen had multiple cracks in it. I've already spoken to Robert and a new panel is on it's way.


Awwww Fu.......dge......
Why Plasma Gods, Why?????????

First post, but a long time reader from Chicago. For those of you going to BB Magnolia or the other B&M stores and being pressured to pay list, I recommend you push back a little - remember these are big ticket items with decent margins to be had.

I purchased an AV receiver (Pioneer Elite 94TXH) several months ago and recently pre-ordered the 151 both from BB Magnolia and both times paid way below list. I have found that as long as you find the item lower than list at an authorized dealer, you can make a case to pay below list. On the AV receiver, I got a verbal from 6th Ave Electronics below List (by mentioning I am an AVS forum member) and asked BB to call their 1-800 number to verify the price - they did and they matched it. On the pre-ordered 151 from BB, here's what I did: I knew about the Tweeter pre-oder discount (15%-20%), so I called ABT Electronics (another Local Authorized Dealer) and asked if they could match. ABT not only matched but gave a lower price (I didn't have to prove the discount - they knew about it). I placed an order over the phone and made sure I could get my deposit back. They e-mailed me an invoice. I then took the ABT invoice to BB Magnolia. They not only matched it but lowered it again.

The moral of the story - Don't give-in on price, apply pressure back. The Forum sponsors are awesome with awesome prices, but in my case I am outside the 250mile limit and am paranoid about the shipping. Use your knowledge from this forum, do a little leg work and you can save some money. Never pay list!

No pictures of the cracked panel D?

:D Wait.. You mean you didn't bother to check idle luminescence? :D;)

No joke. First ever damaged plasma

Don't worry D-Nice,
I have felt your pain.
Don't worry. I am sure Robert will have you a new one real Quick!
Thats the good thing about buying (or getting an Eval unit to do reviews/settings for the forum in your case) from someone like Robert, You are taken care of. And you don't have to contact customer service call centers in India. You deal straight with him. Can't beat that.
This kinda thing is part of the buisness.
In a way, A cracked screen is the best kind of Defect IMO. Its totally noticable and can be immediatly rejected and your new set will be on its way. Much better than having to hunt down the problem.
My 2 Dead 6010's from Amazon showed with no cracks in the screen. I didn't know there was anything wrong until after I had went thru the trouble of attaching the stand and unboxing it. turns out the cracks were on the internal glass.
Another thing to notice is that Robert is expediting the replacement. This means the replacement will come fast.
With Amazon there is no expedited shipping for returns. You have to wait for the Bad TV to get back to them, and then wait another 1-2 (probably two) weeks for the replacement. Imagine going thru all that only to get a dead replacement TV also and then having to start the process all over again.
So don't fret, It could be worse.

Don't worry D-Nice,
I have felt your pain.
Don't worry. I am sure Robert will have you a new one real Quick!
Thats the good thing about buying from someone like Robert, You are taken care of. And you don't have to contact customer service call centers in India. You deal straight with him. Can't beat that.
This kinda thing is part of the buisness.
In a way, A cracked screen is the best kind of Defect IMO. Its totally noticable and can be immediatly rejected and your new set will be on its way. Much better than having to hunt down the problem.
My 2 Dead 6010's from Amazon showed with no cracks in the screen. I didn't know there was anything wrong until after I had went thru the trouble of attaching the stand and unboxing it. turns out the cracks were on the internal glass.
Another thing to notice is that Robert is expediting the replacement. This means the replacement will come fast.
With Amazon there is no expedited shipping for returns. You have to wait for the Bad TV to get back to them, and then wait another 1-2 (probably two) weeks for the replacement. Imagine going thru all that only to get a dead replacement TV also and then having to start the process all over again.
So don't fret, It could be worse.

He did not buy. Robert magnanimously agreed to send the set for D-Nice to review for the forum. Not that Robert wouldn't take care of you.

He did not buy. Robert magnanimously agreed to send the set for D-Nice to review for the forum. Not that Robert wouldn't take care of you.

Yes I know, correction made

Today I called a reputable dealer in Alberta, and received pricing on the Elite and Signature lines of 9G Pioneers. I can't be sure about the USA, or even if the dealer I spoke to is 100% correct, but he sure sounded like he knew his stuff, and said he was positive about this this. He also confirmed that the Signature line will be available (even in Canada) by August, or Sept. at the latest.

Canadian 9G Pricing:

5020: $4000
6020: $5500
111: $5000
151: $7000 (will probably drop to $6500 in 2-4 months when most of the 150's are sold)
101: $5000
141: $7000 (will probably drop to $6500 in 2-4 months when most of the 150's are sold)

So it sounds like at very least in Alberta, Canada, The Signature line will be priced the same as the Elite line.

-Coggs

Okay, I've gone from an Elite 8G to a non-elite (as I am moving I sold the TV
and have a non-elite to tide me over).

Let me get to the point:

AS A FORMER OWNER OF AN ELITE, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!

There, that's it. I've had an elite in my home, and I dearly miss it :(. The
non-elite is amazingly nice, but it's definitely not nearly as good, professionally
calibrated or not. In my case, $1000 extra is worth every single penny. Even
my brother and his wife notice the difference.

Hmm. The Elite's form factor makes it inappropriate for my space, and the extra $1000 may be difficult to justify given my circumstances. But I do plan to see both in person, and who knows? Either way I'll have a great picture, and I can be satisfied with that. Since I never saw the 5010 and PRO-110 side by side or with the same material, it's tough to say. But the 5010 blew away everything else on display near it, and the 5020 should do the same based on the reports I've read.

Any word on when 5020's will be moving?

jollyrogr, ^^ I just got confirmation we'll get our first allocation next week.

-Robert

Any word on when 5020's will be moving?

No word yet, but guess within a week or two.

Chris

Chris, looks like I beat you by 59 seconds or maybe a little less.

-Robert

Why is it that folks still don't understand what I mean about the difference
being night and day?

What don't folks understand?

Simple..... your comparison is too extreme.... "night and day" there's no way.

"Night and Day" different is:

TV on versus TV off
SD versus HD
Black versus white
and ummmmm night versus day

Night and Day different is not:

A relatively minor incremental improvement to an already fantastic image.

Awwww Fu.......dge......
Why Plasma Gods, Why?????????

The Plasma Gods work in mysterious ways.
We must honor thier wishes and remember they know best. There may be a reason for this happening. I mean who are we to question the plasma gods plan??
Fear not, Honor the Gods.
http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif
http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif
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http://www.highdefforum.com/images/smilies/bowdown.gif

jollyrogr, ^^ I just got confirmation we'll get our first allocation next week.

-Robert

Thanks Robert! I can't hardly wait!

Get over it grider, it's a figure of speach indicating in his eyes he could see a noticable difference in the two units.

What don't folks understand?

Simple..... your comparison is too extreme.... "night and day" there's no way.

"Night and Day" different is:

TV on versus TV off
SD versus HD
Black versus white
and ummmmm night versus day

Night and Day different is not:

A relatively minor incremental improvement to an already fantastic image.

D-Nice - PM me...

Get over it grider, it's a figure of speach indicating in his eyes he could see a noticable difference in the two units.

+1 Are you still talking about this??? :rolleyes:

Now D-Nice that looks Like a VIERA Logo in the Top Left are you sure it was the Pioneer ?
Glenee

:D Wait.. You mean you didn't bother to check idle luminescence? :D;)

I think the exciting news is that this set has achieved zero idle luminescence without having to wait for the next gen technology! :D

Now D-Nice that looks Like a VIERA Logo in the Top Left are you sure it was the Pioneer ?
GleneeAlthough the picture above wasn't exactly a Kuro, it surely had cracks similar to the pictured Viera :)

What don't folks understand?

Simple..... your comparison is too extreme.... "night and day" there's no way.

"Night and Day" different is:

TV on versus TV off
SD versus HD
Black versus white
and ummmmm night versus day

Night and Day different is not:

A relatively minor incremental improvement to an already fantastic image.
Agree, I wouldn't even say it is night and day different from my old HP MD5880n. The picture is better but no way night and day different. So how can I believe the Elite version will be night and day better...it won't to me, and that all that matters.
Maybe I have low standards but I don't think I do.

-kkgsxr

Very sad news ... and one less 'initial shipment' 6020. Now someone will have to wait until July for theirs :(

Waiting for the review ... only makes the 151 just a little closer :)

No joke. First ever damaged plasma

Wow! Talk about bad luck.http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/13.gif

I would just like to hear from someone who has the 8g and 9g side by side for comparison. As it stands right now a normal person is not going to know the difference when they receive the 9g.

That makes two of us! ;)

I would just like to hear from someone who has the 8g and 9g side by side for comparison. As it stands right now a normal person is not going to know the difference when they receive the 9g.

That makes two of us! ;)

Come to NY to see for yourself at our "Flat Panel Shoot-Out". (www.*********************/avstc.htm) I will have Pioneer's Elite 9G PRO-111FD flanked by my PDP-5010FD and PRO-150FD. I have turned down several offers to sell these end of life panels as we need them for the shoot out.

jet757f get on your jet and visit NY, see a Broadway play and attend our shoot-out. Ken have you signed up yet?

-Robert

I didn't sign up Robert, but I will be there. Where do I sign...where is the dotted line? ;)

Have you seen the 9g in action robert? Do the blacks look 5 times better?

Today I called a reputable dealer in Alberta, and received pricing on the Elite and Signature lines of 9G Pioneers. I can't be sure about the USA, or even if the dealer I spoke to is 100% correct, but he sure sounded like he knew his stuff, and said he was positive about this this. He also confirmed that the Signature line will be available (even in Canada) by August, or Sept. at the latest.

Canadian 9G Pricing:

5020: $4000
6020: $5500
111: $5000
151: $7000 (will probably drop to $6500 in 2-4 months when most of the 150's are sold)
101: $5000
141: $7000 (will probably drop to $6500 in 2-4 months when most of the 150's are sold)

So it sounds like at very least in Alberta, Canada, The Signature line will be priced the same as the Elite line.

-Coggs

+1 Thanks Coggs, this is great news for Canadians!!

Finally! AT PAR PRICING!! :D Also as many already know, there is a FANTASTIC group buy deal being organized right now in Canada for the 9G Pioneer Elites. Prices that would make many Americans drool! Canadians: PM me for the details!

Have you seen the 9g in action robert? Do the blacks look 5 times better?

Zues, when I first viewed a shoot-out Pioneer had in a private suite at Ceaser's Palace during CES 2008 I could easily see the increased black level and better detailed image, but it was somewhat marginal.

Last month I attended Pioneer's dealer show in Marina Del Ray and they had the same shoot-out set up. But this time the blacks were much blacker and the detail and 3-D look was much greater on the 9G. So I asked engineering and was told at CES I was seeing early pre-production units and in following months they were able to further increase the black level and maintain the brightness to greatly increase the actual contrast ratio.

-Robert

Awesome, thanks robert. I know the CR ratio is so good pio is not putting no CR ratio spec this year compared to the 20:000:1 from last years 8g.

Zues, when I first viewed a shoot-out Pioneer had in a private suite at Ceaser's Palace during CES 2008 I could easily see the increased black level and better detailed image, but it was somewhat marginal.

Last month I attended Pioneer's dealer show in Marina Del Ray and they had the same shoot-out set up. But this time the blacks were much blacker and the detail and 3-D look was much greater on the 9G. So I asked engineering and was told at CES I was seeing early pre-production units and in following months they were able to further increase the black level and maintain the brightness to greatly increase the actual contrast ratio.

-Robert

Robert,
are you talking about the Elite's or non-Elite?

gugy, Pioneer only demonstrated Elite models. I'll have Elite and no-Elite models at our shoot out.

Zues, I was told the 9G contrast ratio is 30,000:1. I plan on measuring the actual ANSI contrast ratio of every panel at the shoot-out.

-Robert

Thanks,
I am looking forward to hear about the shoot out. I am sold on the Elite, but if you tell me the 6020 is almost as good as the 151, you are getting my business.
I wished you could ship me here in San Diego an Elite 151.:(

Take care

I see on pg. 56 of the euro lx6090 manual that there is a video pattern setting for ir screen wipe. Is this feature on 8g elites? Will this feature be included on U.S. 9g models?

Night and Day different is not:

A relatively minor incremental improvement to an already fantastic image.

How about a customized picture that is set up the way you like it versus one you can live with? All the difference in the world.

highheater, sorry to say I don't totally agree. I understand your point and it is somewhat valid with the following consideration. It's not about that you can set up the display as you like it... In this space it's more about having the panel ISF calibrated to TV standards. And the advantage is nice, but please keep in mind that Pioneer does an excellent job of calibrating their panels and have lots of pre-set a/v modes. The movie mode is as close as a non-Elite panel can get to the Elite Pure mode for BD and HD DVD playback.

Plus non-Elite panels do ISF calibrate very well so I would not say the difference is anywhere near day and night or all the difference in the world.

-Robert

Sorry D-Nice; following this thread is better than watching an episode of 24! Still very much looking forward to your impressions. Also glad you opened the box before the driver left.

I've heard from inside sources that 24 has been shifting their storyline for the next season while in the midst of filming. Maybe they should try a computer terrorism plot line that revolves around AV enthusiasts. Heart pounding suspense!

About to buy 5020FD (well, pre-order, anyway). Can anyone tell me whether the stand that comes with it swivels?? Want to have my furniture lined up beforehand! :)

Thanks so much, and Woohoo!! :)

Along these same lines, can anyone recommend a good TV stand to support the 151FD? I know this is a bit off-topic and have also asked in another, seemingly far-less-active area of the forum. I don't need anything fancy. Heck, I'd REALLY like to keep it around $100-$150 if that's humanly possible. Any suggestions?

About to buy 5020FD (well, pre-order, anyway). Can anyone tell me whether the stand that comes with it swivels?? Want to have my furniture lined up beforehand! :)

Thanks so much, and Woohoo!! :)
The stand does not swivel.

Zip, it'll be hard to find something in that price range and on that same note, you may want to spend a bit more anyway just to be on the safe side. You'll want to ensure that the stand is sturdy and built well enough and so your TV won't fall/break in any way shape or form.

Plus non-Elite panels do ISF calibrate very well so I would not say the difference is anywhere near day and night or all the difference in the world.

-RobertThat is why I bought a 6010 and had UMR calibrate it. :)

One advantage that I have is that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless I had UMR calibrate a 6010 and a 150 for me to view side by side. ;)

I can't worry about 2008, or 2009 models because I spent all my money in 2007. :eek:

I was told the 9G contrast ratio is 30,000:1. I plan on measuring the actual ANSI contrast ratio of every panel at the shoot-out.

-Robert


How does that compair to the older rear projection Pioneer Elite CRTs such as the X20 series or rear CRT projection in general?

Yeah definitely. I'm doing a lot of searching online and it seems like once you get above stands meant 40-something-inches, you start paying for aesthetics as well as quality. I'd prefer something slightly ugly, yet overbuilt.
I'd go for a wall mount but that's a no-go in my apt.
Bollocks!


Zip, it'll be hard to find something in that price range and on that same note, you may want to spend a bit more anyway just to be on the safe side. You'll want to ensure that the stand is sturdy and built well enough and so your TV won't fall/break in any way shape or form.

I keep hearing about cracked plasmas being delivered to customers homes.
Makes me wonder how often retailers receive damaged plasmas. It seems to be quite common. Does the retailer check the plasma before it is shipped to the customer?

Along these same lines, can anyone recommend a good TV stand to support the 151FD? I know this is a bit off-topic and have also asked in another, seemingly far-less-active area of the forum. I don't need anything fancy. Heck, I'd REALLY like to keep it around $100-$150 if that's humanly possible. Any suggestions?


Damn that's kinda like putting ketchup on a steak. You'll spend $$$ for a 151FD but wont go over $150 for a stand?

lol, I appreciate the comparison. But I look at technology and furniture as two vastly different worlds. I know full-well that, given the time and a minimal amount of research, I could build a TV stand for a fraction of the retail cost. Not so with a plasma display. I mean, I guess I could try but I believe I'd be destined for failure.
Plus, it's not like the rest of my furniture is that great either. I'd hate for my recliner to feel....inadequate.
:o
::edit::
plus, what I was getting at was that I don't even know what a decent price IS for a TV stand that I can trust.
But I trust that a few of you folks will. If the consensus is "hey crackhead, you really need to spend at least X
unless you want to come home and find your television on the floor, in pieces," then I'll have a baseline.



Damn that's kinda like putting ketchup on a steak. You'll spend $$$ for a 151FD but wont go over $150 for a stand?

I've been searching for some time and have come to the conclusion that the price range will be $400 up. Go to the official flat panel furniture thread for numerous suggestions, many with pictures.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=416358

Along these same lines, can anyone recommend a good TV stand to support the 151FD? I know this is a bit off-topic and have also asked in another, seemingly far-less-active area of the forum. I don't need anything fancy. Heck, I'd REALLY like to keep it around $100-$150 if that's humanly possible. Any suggestions?

Thanks for that link! I swear I searched but I didn't see that particular thread.
I blame my meds.
;)

lol, I appreciate the comparison. But I look at technology and furniture as two vastly different worlds. I know full-well that, given the time and a minimal amount of research, I could build a TV stand for a fraction of the retail cost. Not so with a plasma display. I mean, I guess I could try but I believe I'd be destined for failure.
Plus, it's not like the rest of my furniture is that great either. I'd hate for my recliner to feel....inadequate.
:o
::edit::
plus, what I was getting at was that I don't even know what a decent price IS for a TV stand that I can trust.
But I trust that a few of you folks will. If the consensus is "hey crackhead, you really need to spend at least X
unless you want to come home and find your television on the floor, in pieces," then I'll have a baseline.

zipflint,

I always build my tv stands, or at least have someone build them to my specs. And they look good, too. My last one, which I've just sold with my 70" tv to make room for a 151 was simple yet super sturdy, welded to my specs. I put on it a nice black granite top and that thing was getting almost as much attention as my tv... I built it for cheaper than what they were charging for a cheapo plastic stand.

How about a customized picture that is set up the way you like it versus one you can live with? All the difference in the world.

Finally a person that understands what I meant. Remember, I was talking about
my own personal view and not making a general statement. I guess I kinda blew
it in trying to explain myself, but whatever...

I DEFINITELY like the sound of that! Would you care
to share your construction specs? That way I could adjust
them to fit my needs. Or is this the sort of thing where, if
I'm talking to the right builder, I'll know it and he'll keep me
from suggesting something boneheaded?
This sort of project (welding, granite, etc.) is way beyond
my (mostly nonexistent) skills and equipment.



zipflint,

I always build my tv stands, or at least have someone build them to my specs. And they look good, too. My last one, which I've just sold with my 70" tv to make room for a 151 was simple yet super sturdy, welded to my specs. I put on it a nice black granite top and that thing was getting almost as much attention as my tv... I built it for cheaper than what they were charging for a cheapo plastic stand.

Along these same lines, can anyone recommend a good TV stand to support the 151FD? I know this is a bit off-topic and have also asked in another, seemingly far-less-active area of the forum. I don't need anything fancy. Heck, I'd REALLY like to keep it around $100-$150 if that's humanly possible. Any suggestions?

Whatever you do, don't buy (or build:D) a stand made out of glass!

This is a warning about the Avdeco line of plasma and TV stands.

Last fall I purchased an Avedeco HR420 TV stand for my bedroom. This stand runs about $1000, so it is definately not cheap. One of the reasons I chose this stand was that the top shelf had a "stated" capacity of 250lbs. Since I was putting my Panasonic 50PX500U Plasma on it, I wanted to make sure it was solid. Since the Panny was only 114lbs, I figured I had plenty of support for it.

All was fine for many months, and then, just last month, I happened to be sitting in the next room, when I heard a tremendous crash. I thought that a plane had hit my house, and I ran into my bedroom to see what happened.

The top shelf of the Avdeco stand EXPLODED sending shards of glass to every corner of my bedroom. Fortunately for me, I wasn't sleeping at the time, or I would have been hit by flying glass.

Amazingly, my plasma tv, fell straight down, and was resting precariously on the next two shelves. I quickly called my wife in to help me lift it off and to the ground. It is really a miracle that the plasma didn't fall over on its face.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8815/avdeco1smallzt1.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2040/avdeco3smallfl4.jpg

For the last several weeks, I have been calling and e-mailing Avdeco Inc, and the online dealer Threshold Concepts, but have recieved no response, either via e-mail or phone call. It is obvious that both the dealer, and the manufacturer is not interested in any repeat business, or taking care of the customer. I am left with a useless tv stand and am out $1000.

Anyone considering purchasing one of these stands, even a different model, I would strongly caution you to consider a different manufacturer.

O_o
"The horror.....the horror."
Guy is lucky to be ALIVE.

I've heard from inside sources that 24 has been shifting their storyline for the next season while in the midst of filming. Maybe they should try a computer terrorism plot line that revolves around AV enthusiasts. Heart pounding suspense!

Wow, cracked plasmas and exploding stands. I'm getting a bit nervous! Where is Jack Bauer when you need him.....:)

Whatever you do, don't buy (or build:D) a stand made out of glass!

My stand is made of glass :eek:
I bought it at CC a few years ago. I saw that picture and pulled the specs on it is rated to hold a maximun of 260 pounds. What does the 6020 wiegh? Its around 130 right?

I DEFINITELY like the sound of that! Would you care to share your construction specs? That way I could adjust
them to fit my needs. Or is this the sort of thing where, if
I'm talking to the right builder, I'll know it and he'll keep me
from suggesting something boneheaded? This sort of project (welding, granite, etc.) is way beyond my (mostly nonexistent) skills and equipment.

zipflint, ddgt makes a good point. you might just try a small local welding shop or a furniture/cabinet maker. a stand to your liking would be pretty easy to draw up and for them to build/weld up for you. and check some local granite places and good chance you can find a scrap peice of granite that they will cut and finish and sell you alot cheaper then you think.

My stand is made of glass :eek:
I bought it at CC a few years ago. I saw that picture and pulled the specs on it is rated to hold a maximun of 260 pounds. What does the 6020 wiegh? Its around 130 right?

One has to wonder how they rate those stands. Is the weight distributed evenly across the sheet of glass or is it placed in the center where the glass is weakest and most vulnerable to shattering (and right where you would place your TVhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/ohnoes.gif). Wood is just a much better material to place heavy (and expensive!) items on.

My stand is made of glass :eek:
I bought it at CC a few years ago. I saw that picture and pulled the specs on it is rated to hold a maximun of 260 pounds. What does the 6020 wiegh? Its around 130 right?
Don't worry, I trusted my glass stand with a Pro-150FD and it was great! I Believe
it could handle about 250 pounds or so. Seriously heavy tempered glass. Each piece
of glass weighed about 50 pounds and about 3/4 inch thick. No need to worry if it's solid.

Don't worry, I trusted my glass stand with a Pro-150FD and it was great! I Believe
it could handle about 250 pounds or so. Seriously heavy tempered glass. Each piece
of glass weighed about 50 pounds. No need to worry if it's solid.

If check out that post I quoted on the last page, you'll see that the poor guy had spent $1000 on a stand rated for 250lbs. The thing exploded into a million pieces! Luckily for him, his plasma fell straight down onto his receiver, instead of doing a face plant onto the floor.

I can't see putting a $4000 TV at risk, just so I can have a prettier (uglier if you ask me) looking stand.

If check out that post I quoted on the last page, you'll see that the poor guy had spent $1000 on a stand rated for 250lbs. The thing exploded into a million pieces! Luckily for him, his plasma fell straight down onto his receiver, instead of doing a face plant onto the floor.

I can't see putting a $4000 TV at risk, just so I can have a prettier (uglier if you ask me) looking stand.

True, but high price doesn't necessarily make it strong. That example is likely
a rare case amongst the many stands out there. I mean, I know where you
are getting at with the expensive TV, but glass can be very strong too. Just
look at the glass that makes up your car windshield as an example. Heck, the
glass windows on office buildings are another example:)

By the way, the arrangements of the posts in that stand are pretty bad. It
would definitely put more stress on the glass.

Hey D nice, sorry to hear ya got a broken one.........it does happen, I know Roberts taking care of you. That's why I bought my Kuro Elite from an AVS forum sponsor, John Marty at Axxis Audio had me another PRO150FD out asap and it came in perfect condition and been enjoying it ever since. Besides the great deal he had to step up and show great service and that made waiting on the replacement not so bad.

For anyone getting one delivered soon make sure you check it out whether the box is pristine or shows damage.
back side with big hole
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7169/crackedpro150fd1hugeholsa5.jpg

glass side, three more holes
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1941/crackedpro150fd2frontbogl6.jpg

quick inspection shows glass cracked big time
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4812/crackedpro150fd3rightsiio1.jpg

left side of glass
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1329/crackedpro150fd4leftsidut9.jpg

noted puncture damage on back side of box
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6093/crackedpro150fd5damagenwm3.jpg

noted puncture damage to glass side of box
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5156/crackedpro150fd6damagenjr2.jpg

Wow! Those are some discouraging pictures. Is there a protocol for receiving/refusing delivery on these panels? What's the best thing to do when accepting delivery? Can you at least get the delivery people to remove the packaging to determine that there's no physical damage?

Robert, Do you offer delivery service where packaging is removed by the delivery folks and the panel's condition can be seen to be undamaged?
Thanks, Kerry in R.I.

Does it make sense or is it even possible to pick the panel up yourself?

dont be discouraged, it's just a numbers game. I knew I got an excellent price but i also considered the risk and knew this was a possibility. I did my homework and felt confident in my choice of an avs forum sponsor like John and it paid off in a great price and excellent service even though I got a busted one first.

Just be ready to recieve it, be prepared in case only one delivery guy is sent out. Be ready with ample space to open and check it out. If your ready it should only take 5-10 to open and plug er in, tell the driver you just need a few minutes to check it out and give them a cold refreshment, then if it's ok tip the driver a $20 and enjoy your new Kuro:).

A good dealer will take care of you but even if you picked it up from a dealer like Robert in NY or a local BB unless you check it right then and there you will not know until you get it all the way home and plugged in whether it's aok, cracked DOA etc.

Robert, Do you offer delivery service where packaging is removed by the delivery folks and the panel's condition can be seen to be undamaged?
Thanks, Kerry in R.

I am not Robert but I can answer your question.
Yes he does, It is called "White glove" delivery.
I paid a little xtra for the white glove myself when I orderd my 6020 from Robert. The Delivery guys will bring the TV into the house, Remove it from its box, and let you power on the TV to make sure everything is working properly.
I opted for it becasue I will be home by myself and will need the delivery guys to help me attach the stand and put the TV on my furniture stand.
It is also good to remember that even if you dont get white glove, alot of the forum sponsors (not sure if Robert does but I would bet so) will allow an "inspection" period if you write "subject to inspection" on the Invoice and give it back to the delivery guys. So if you notice something like busted glass you can get your replacement faster.
This may not be exactly how it works but it is something like that.

While I agree with you totally Nambit, especially now that I have a 6010FD on loan, but people only want to hear or believe whatever they want to believe. No matter how many times D-Nice or I have said, the Elites are better, every 5 pages there is a post about Elite vs Non-Elite and it starts again.

I have an 1140HD, had a 150FD, and a 6010FD and I'm sorry... out of the box the Elites were much better when put to the Pure mode setting compared to the non-elites Movie mode.

This may be different with the 9Gs, but so far with the 8Gs those are my thoughts.

In an Ultimate AV review of the 6010 it was noted that the Elites have a different screen filter, which allowed for deeper blacks. I don't know if the Pure mode is involved or not, though.

First post, but a long time reader from Chicago. For those of you going to BB Magnolia or the other B&M stores and being pressured to pay list, I recommend you push back a little - remember these are big ticket items with decent margins to be had.

I purchased an AV receiver (Pioneer Elite 94TXH) several months ago and recently pre-ordered the 151 both from BB Magnolia and both times paid way below list. I have found that as long as you find the item lower than list at an authorized dealer, you can make a case to pay below list. On the AV receiver, I got a verbal from 6th Ave Electronics below List (by mentioning I am an AVS forum member) and asked BB to call their 1-800 number to verify the price - they did and they matched it. On the pre-ordered 151 from BB, here's what I did: I knew about the Tweeter pre-oder discount (15%-20%), so I called ABT Electronics (another Local Authorized Dealer) and asked if they could match. ABT not only matched but gave a lower price (I didn't have to prove the discount - they knew about it). I placed an order over the phone and made sure I could get my deposit back. They e-mailed me an invoice. I then took the ABT invoice to BB Magnolia. They not only matched it but lowered it again.

The moral of the story - Don't give-in on price, apply pressure back. The Forum sponsors are awesome with awesome prices, but in my case I am outside the 250mile limit and am paranoid about the shipping. Use your knowledge from this forum, do a little leg work and you can save some money. Never pay list!

In January I was in a BB Magnolia and saw the PRO-110 for $1000 off. A Magnolia rep told me that they usually don't discount the high-end TVs, but this was a special sale, one week only (probably tied in with the impending Super Bowl). I was thinking about the 5020, but if I decide on an Elite instead, I'll keep your comments in mind. Thanks.

I am not Robert but I can answer your question.
Yes he does, It is called "White glove" delivery.
I paid a little xtra for the white glove myself when I orderd my 6020 from Robert. The Delivery guys will bring the TV into the house, Remove it from its box, and let you power on the TV to make sure everything is working properly.
I opted for it becasue I will be home by myself and will need the delivery guys to help me attach the stand and put the TV on my furniture stand.
It is also good to remember that even if you dont get white glove, alot of the forum sponsors (not sure if Robert does but I would bet so) will allow an "inspection" period if you write "subject to inspection" on the Invoice and give it back to the delivery guys. So if you notice something like busted glass you can get your replacement faster.
This may not be exactly how it works but it is something like that.

Hi Chadmak,
That's just what I hoped to hear. I live alone and like you will be home alone to receive my set. I did order from Robert and I could not feel more confident about him or be happier after dealing with him, he's been really terrific. I'm just concerned about something happening after it leaves Robert and becomes the responsibility of the delivery company. I'm 65 yrs old and the set is going one flight up so I'm happy to pay for the additional service and will tip the delivery guys with pleasure for extending a hand.
I frequently order things on line and it often stretches the limits of my imagination when wondering what could have possibly happened to some of the packages that have "landed" on my doorstep. Thanks Chadmak -bird

Zues, I was told the 9G contrast ratio is 30,000:1. I plan on measuring the actual ANSI contrast ratio of every panel at the shoot-out.

-RobertActually the maxed-out contrast ratio is 100,000:1 and post calibration contrast ratio is 40,000:1 or better (40fL peak light output).

zipflint,

I always build my tv stands, or at least have someone build them to my specs. And they look good, too. My last one, which I've just sold with my 70" tv to make room for a 151 was simple yet super sturdy, welded to my specs. I put on it a nice black granite top and that thing was getting almost as much attention as my tv... I built it for cheaper than what they were charging for a cheapo plastic stand.

+1

I have always built my own TV stands and other furniture too. You end up with a stand that is exactly what YOU need, looks great, far more robust than most stands you can purchase and much personal satisfaction.

It is easier than you may think....

Here's a fantastic & practical thread that will help you build your own TV stand:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=470259

I've heard from inside sources that 24 has been shifting their storyline for the next season while in the midst of filming. Maybe they should try a computer terrorism plot line that revolves around AV enthusiasts. Heart pounding suspense!

The story should revolve around oil price increases used to control the world economies.

hey guys its been a few days since i left and i gotta say WOW~~~ what are the odds of D-nice set being damged:confused::(


hmm even though lcd was inferior and despite being more expensive the xbr8 seems a step up but truely not there yet, D-nice what do you think of the xbr8 do you really think its a fair compairsion to the kuro? i am in no way or fashion accepting a lcd or even thinking about it but for a laugh rather :D

http://gizmodo.com/5013722/sony-hosts-xbr8-led-lcd-vs-plasma-shootout-youll-never-guess-who-wins
Let the analysis begin. I have no idea how real this is, or not, but would love to know.

nemozorro i agree lol

Sorry D-Nice; following this thread is better than watching an episode of 24! Still very much looking forward to your impressions. Also glad you opened the box before the driver left.

Actually the maxed-out contrast ratio is 100,000:1 and post calibration contrast ratio is 40,000:1 or better (40fL peak light output).

Thanks D-Nice.

-Robert

I DEFINITELY like the sound of that! Would you care
to share your construction specs? That way I could adjust
them to fit my needs. Or is this the sort of thing where, if
I'm talking to the right builder, I'll know it and he'll keep me
from suggesting something boneheaded?
This sort of project (welding, granite, etc.) is way beyond
my (mostly nonexistent) skills and equipment.

I will look for some good pictures this weekend and also draw a sketch with dimensions and materials used. Not sure if I can post it here, but will pm you.

Cheers

+1

Here's a fantastic & practical thread that will help you build your own TV stand:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=470259

Thanks for this link. I've now decided to build my own rather than buy the junk I see in the stores.

This will give me something to do while I wait for the reviews of the 9G models.

If history is any indication, the 10G models will be out before I'm done. :rolleyes:

My stand is made of glass :eek:
I bought it at CC a few years ago. I saw that picture and pulled the specs on it is rated to hold a maximun of 260 pounds. What does the 6020 wiegh? Its around 130 right?
Remember there are no guarantees...what IF the glass breaks...who will bear the costs of the TV and the stand...YOU --not CC or the stand manufacturer

Glass stands are good looking but I would never take a chance with my $5K+ plasma

Are there any updates on the US pricing for the Signature series Elites, PRO-141FD in particular?

lol, I appreciate the comparison. But I look at technology and furniture as two vastly different worlds. I know full-well that, given the time and a minimal amount of research, I could build a TV stand for a fraction of the retail cost. Not so with a plasma display. I mean, I guess I could try but I believe I'd be destined for failure.
Plus, it's not like the rest of my furniture is that great either. I'd hate for my recliner to feel....inadequate.
:o
::edit::
plus, what I was getting at was that I don't even know what a decent price IS for a TV stand that I can trust.
But I trust that a few of you folks will. If the consensus is "hey crackhead, you really need to spend at least X
unless you want to come home and find your television on the floor, in pieces," then I'll have a baseline.
Hell with the Stand you need the IDIOCRACY CHAIR for your Kuro - to perform all bodily functions and viewing without ever moving.

Check out Costco. ;)

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/idiocracy-tv-dvd.jpg

I have my Kuro on a glass stand from z-line, the maxim magazine version. It is solid and rated at 300lbs. Not one issue with my old DLP, 2+ years sitting on it, and now the 6020.

-kkgsxr

My stand is made of glass :eek:


I have this stand made out of glass. It has supported a 70" XBR2 and a 150FD. I removed the middle shelf and that's where my center channel speaker resides. It's a big speaker. No worries.

http://bello.com/images/products/AVS-2572-Naked.jpg

If check out that post I quoted on the last page, you'll see that the poor guy had spent $1000 on a stand rated for 250lbs. The thing exploded into a million pieces! Luckily for him, his plasma fell straight down onto his receiver, instead of doing a face plant onto the floor.

I can't see putting a $4000 TV at risk, just so I can have a prettier (uglier if you ask me) looking stand.

For what it's worth, Sanus makes good stands. I have their EFAVII stand (top shelf rated at 250 lbs.) which has been supporting my 108-lb. Sony XBR tube for about 6 years. They also have the AVF48b, where even the lower shelves are rated at 200 lbs. This is the likely stand I'll get to hold my PDP-5020, assuming I actually buy one. They have glass stands, too.

The stand I plan on getting is glass because it is the only one I've found that meets my requirements. Glad to see there are still supporters even after the unfortunate accident. I will inspect the shelves for defects much closer now.

That is why I bought a 6010 and had UMR calibrate it. :)

One advantage that I have is that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless I had UMR calibrate a 6010 and a 150 for me to view side by side. ;)

I can't worry about 2008, or 2009 models because I spent all my money in 2007. :eek:

Hey, at least your screen name is still valid right?

htwaits ;)

Are there any updates on the US pricing for the Signature series Elites, PRO-141FD in particular?

I have not seen anything yet.

Hey, at least your screen name is still valid right?

htwaits ;)Coyote always waits. So does HT. ;)

Thanks much for the link. Looks very informative, I'll definitely
keep this in mind as well.



+1

I have always built my own TV stands and other furniture too. You end up with a stand that is exactly what YOU need, looks great, far more robust than most stands you can purchase and much personal satisfaction.

It is easier than you may think....

Here's a fantastic & practical thread that will help you build your own TV stand:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=470259

i went over to the Pioneer store today in south coast plaza and spent about an hour checking out the new 6020. As i see it, the blacks are about 20% darker (in theory they may be 5X, but in reality they are not) than my 5080 and it is a really nice tv - i checked out all the user selectable modes and - optimum was great and the rest were very, very good - movie is stuck in low temp - so that mode would not be good for me. All in all - great tv - the sales person stated that the whole company is waiting for the 10Gs (perfect blacks) next year as this 9g is just an incrementally improved tv from the 8g. I agree with his assessment.

JUST PLACED MY ORDER FOR THE 151FD with Robert..... there is only one thing I can say about him....he is in business not for the sake of business but because he has a passion for it....absolute smooth buying experience...I must say
HI

HOW MUCH DID YOU PAY FOR THE PRO151 ELITE ....DO YOU THINK 5150 IS A GOOD PRICE (delivery included)

Hey guys,
I was wondering about getting the 6020 ISF calibrated.
Would it be worth doing?
Around how much does it cost and who performs this? I wonder if there is anyone who can do this is Huntsville alabama?
I had a guy who does calibrations and lives about 50 miles from me PM me and offer to come by and do the calibration free of charge because he is interested in the 6020 and can't find one around here. Would this be worth doing? I am kinda hesitant about letting a stranger mess with my TV but if his crediitentials are good I might. What do you guys think? Should I?

Can Any One Of You Guys Around Tell Me If $5150 Delivered Is A Good Price For The Pro151fd

samkk0891,
talking about prices other than MSRP is against forum rules

Can Any One Of You Guys Around Tell Me If $5xxx Delivered Is A Good Price For The Pro151fd

Heck yeah!!

samkk0891,
talking about prices other than MSRP is against forum rules
WELL I am not revealing the name of the dealer nor will I do that even with PM`s....so I am not hurting any of the forum sponsors

BUT anyways i apologize if I am still violating the rule

WELL I am not revealing the name of the dealer nor will I do that even with PM`s....so I am not hurting any of the forum sponsors

BUT anyways i apologize if I am still violating the rule

There is a new rule that not many new people know about,
If you ask a Price question like that then you must buy the Television you are asking prices about from a forum sponsor and send it to the regular Kuro thread members and we share the TV in 1 month intervals. j/k

Hi Chad, I know you are torn between the 6020 and the elite 151. I know it will be difficult, but I think if you wait to experience the full glory of the elite you won't ever have any second thoughts. However, if you go through with your purchase of a 6020, you might get buyers remorse and be wondering what you are missing once those 9G elites finally come out. BTW...don't just have anyone calibrate...really get someone who knows what they are doing like umr from this forum, especially if you get the elite. I am sure he could swing by your area if you get in touch with him.

Pio doesn't have Pro-adjust settings and Elite does.
Pio doesn't have room colour analyzer
Pio doesn't have ISFccc setting, Elite have ISFccc day and ISFccc night

Hi Chad, I know you are torn between the 6020 and the elite 151. I know it will be difficult, but I think if you wait to experience the full glory of the elite you won't ever have any second thoughts. However, if you go through with your purchase of a 6020, you might get buyers remorse and be wondering what you are missing once those 9G elites finally come out. BTW...don't just have anyone calibrate...really get someone who knows what they are doing like umr from this forum, especially if you get the elite. I am sure he could swing by your area if you get in touch with him.He may go to 'Bama, but that is a pretty random place for UMR to go to on his road tours.

Hey guys,
I was wondering about getting the 6020 ISF calibrated.
Would it be worth doing?
Around how much does it cost and who performs this? I wonder if there is anyone who can do this is Huntsville alabama?
I had a guy who does calibrations and lives about 50 miles from me PM me and offer to come by and do the calibration free of charge because he is interested in the 6020 and can't find one around here. Would this be worth doing? I am kinda hesitant about letting a stranger mess with my TV but if his crediitentials are good I might. What do you guys think? Should I?


Here's a pointer to Image Science list of trained ISF calibration search engine.

http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

I just saw sony's new OLED first hand the other day and was quite impressed. blacks were super black and colors were great, not to mention the panel was super thin. Based on what people know about OLED tech, how do you think it will stack up against the 9G Kuros? (I heard Sony might have large OLED screen sizes in less than a year).

Hi Chad, I know you are torn between the 6020 and the elite 151. I know it will be difficult, but I think if you wait to experience the full glory of the elite you won't ever have any second thoughts. However, if you go through with your purchase of a 6020, you might get buyers remorse and be wondering what you are missing once those 9G elites finally come out. BTW...don't just have anyone calibrate...really get someone who knows what they are doing like umr from this forum, especially if you get the elite. I am sure he could swing by your area if you get in touch with him.

I am not really torn yet.
Until I get the 6020 and really see what its capable of I am not drawing any conclusions.
I still have no doubt that the 6020 will be the best Flat panel I have ever seen.
Until D-Nice does his intial Review and I have the 6020 broke in and I start to see what it is capable of, I don't think it is good to doubt the 6020 at all.
Although I loved the color temp controls, only time will tell if its really that big of a deal.
So far I have heard from a couple of members that the skin tones are dead on and the 6020 is amazing. Thats is the word I keep hearing "amazing".
So my outlook is still very positive about the 6020.

Pio doesn't have Pro-adjust settings and Elite does.
Pio doesn't have room colour analyzer
Pio doesn't have ISFccc setting, Elite have ISFccc day and ISFccc night

And according to Pioneer literature, the 5020 is Energy Star compliant; the PRO-111 is not.

WELL I am not revealing the name of the dealer nor will I do that even with PM`s....so I am not hurting any of the forum sponsors

BUT anyways i apologize if I am still violating the rule

The rule has nothing to do with forum sponsors.

I am not really torn yet.
Until I get the 6020 and really see what its capable of I am not drawing any conclusions.
I still have no doubt that the 6020 will be the best Flat panel I have ever seen.
Until D-Nice does his intial Review and I have the 6020 broke in and I start to see what it is capable of, I don't think it is good to doubt the 6020 at all.
Although I loved the color temp controls, only time will tell if its really that big of a deal.
So far I have heard from a couple of members that the skin tones are dead on and the 6020 is amazing. Thats is the word I keep hearing "amazing".
So my outlook is still very positive about the 6020.

How long is shipping taking? It seems like you ordered several days ago.

Here's a pointer to Image Science list of trained ISF calibration search engine.

http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

Thanks!
Looks like the closest ISF trained dealers with calibration equipment are in Birmingham alabama. That is about 200 miles from me.
Maybe they can make a house call?

What I want to know is if the PQ of the 6020 would be significantly improved if I was to ISF calibrate it? I really don't need to know that the Elites have this and that and how much easier they are to calibrate, etc. I already know all that.
I just want to know how much the PQ of the 6020 would be improved if I was to get it ISF calibrated. And if the difference would be worth the $.
And what is the average price of a calibration (no names of the specific buisnesses and thier price, avs rules)?
Thanks! -Chad M.

Chad the thing is it is NOT how easy it is to get it calibrated or how easy to get into service menu But the fact that the elite has more tweekablity that yeilds to better PQ then the non elite, Earlier you said you were not going to get it pro calibrated so why the change?:eek: If your really thinking or even having a small possiblity of calibrating it FOR HD GOD SAKE:p Get yourself an ELITE


I'am no expert but i know D-nice will agree to me that the non elite will not offer as good quality as an elite calibrated, as far as being significant i dont know but i doulbt it since even in service menu you cant adjust color temp Noise reduction and a handful of features.

Get someone very repablue and i think its over 300 and depends on what tools you want the isf to bring or what extensive tests.

Thanks!
Looks like the closest ISF trained dealers with calibration equipment are in Birmingham alabama. That is about 200 miles from me.
Maybe they can make a house call?

What I want to know is if the PQ of the 6020 would be significantly improved if I was to ISF calibrate it? I really don't need to know that the Elites have this and that and how much easier they are to calibrate, etc. I already know all that.
I just want to know how much the PQ of the 6020 would be improved if I was to get it ISF calibrated. And if the difference would be worth the $.
And what is the average price of a calibration (no names of the specific buisnesses and thier price, avs rules)?
Thanks! -Chad M.


Piobeer Oled are going to be soo expensive that a kuro is going to sound like a bargin:eek: compare to oled, EVEN though lets SAY that its not as expensive it will have its MAJOR flaws durring its first run, picture 1st 2nd 3rd gen plasmas and lcd's:(:p

Forget about oled for now

I just saw sony's new OLED first hand the other day and was quite impressed. blacks were super black and colors were great, not to mention the panel was super thin. Based on what people know about OLED tech, how do you think it will stack up against the 9G Kuros? (I heard Sony might have large OLED screen sizes in less than a year).

EDIT: C'mon GUYS read my post i stated chad' lil PQ with isf pending and piobeer oled Q or comment

I just saw sony's new OLED first hand the other day and was quite impressed. blacks were super black and colors were great, not to mention the panel was super thin. Based on what people know about OLED tech, how do you think it will stack up against the 9G Kuros? (I heard Sony might have large OLED screen sizes in less than a year).

OLED is still a long ways off. From what I've read, Sony's "large" OLED tv will be about 27", though Samsung is purportedly shooting to push out its 40" to 42" OLED displays in 2010 or 2011. Plus, given Sony's $2500 price tag on its 11" display, it'll probably be a while before OLED comes down in prices sufficient to compete with plasma or LCD. Best case scenario, OLED will be competing against the 10G Kuros and will have considerably less screen real estate.

Chad, with how passionate you are about good PQ, it is ELITE all the way for you my friend. You won't miss the extra dough.......

Chad the thing is it is NOT how easy it is to get it calibrated or how easy to get into service menu But the fact that the elite has more tweekablity that yeilds to better PQ then the non elite, Earlier you said you were not going to get it pro calibrated so why the change?:eek: If your really thinking or even having a small possiblity of calibrating it FOR HD GOD SAKE:p Get yourself an ELITE


I'am no expert but i know D-nice will agree to me that the non elite will not offer as good quality as an elite calibrated, as far as being significant i dont know but i doulbt it since even in service menu you cant adjust color temp Noise reduction and a handful of features.

Get someone very repablue and i think its over 300 and depends on what tools you want the isf to bring or what extensive


Oh I totally agree, The Elite are better for Calibration. No doubt.
I am just weighing my options thats all. That guy offering to calibrate my 6020 for free got me wondering thats all. I was just wondering if the Color Temp setting removal causes PQ loss, would it help to calibrate to kind of "even out" the diiffernce. But who knows yet, the Temp control change may not be a big deal. Can't wait to get my 6020.

Chad, with how passionate you are about good PQ, it is ELITE all the way for you my friend. You won't miss the extra dough.......

Elite.........Elite..........Elite.........:D

chad the 6020 will be the best tv you ever gotten as its proven kuro is already on par or beyond crt But still a limited calibrated non elite wont stand a chance to a calibrated elite, take it from russ or or someone else, i'd say pitch out for the better PQ now then later focus on a good HT surround because god forbid your always going to going to have the buyers remorse and the thought of hmm i wonder if the elite with calibration or whta if?

oh and i wouldnot let anyone calibrate a tv especially an expensive one unless the guy is very repable regardless of a free or low cost because Service menu adjustments are not to be honnor by pioneer ( i think!) in case if your friend brick's it :( and that is the only way to calibrate a non elite by going through service menu

The Kuro of watermelons.:eek:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24997464/?GT1=43001

Manuals have been posted.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PDP-5020FD_OperatingInstructions0428.pdf

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PRO-111FD_OperatingInstructions0514.pdf

Hey guys,
I was wondering about getting the 6020 ISF calibrated.


I'd wait for someone like UMR to comment on the restrictions to calibration imposed by the unavailibilty of certain settings in both the user and SERVICE menu.

There were discussions last year 6010 + calibration = 150 ???
But since the 6020s are already handcuffed I don't think its makes sense to chase this set with a calibration. At least wait for an experienced calibrator to comment.

And according to Pioneer literature, the 5020 is Energy Star compliant; the PRO-111 is not.


The literature is wrong. both Pio and Elite will be Energy Star 3.0 (yes, three-point-oh) compliant.

So the U.S.version also has a video pattern feature for ir. Good to know. Easier to use than break-in disk after using break-in disk perhaps?

The literature is wrong. both Pio and Elite will be Energy Star 3.0 (yes, three-point-oh) compliant.

any way of reading what standards are 3.0? and is this by reducing the PQ or right off the bat ?

i know its an inprovement at .02 wats in stanby compare to 8g at 22 wats


hamsamish09 you can use this if you feel that theirs hint of ir , pop that video partern mode have a cold one or eat/ shower while it cleans it up :D

9G Kuros are all Energy Star complainant when set to the Standard mode. The cut power consumption by 20% to 25% with a very slight drop in brightness.

Some of the video modes features and settings have changed.

-Robert

robert thanks for the info that being said since some of the members are going to take D-nice settings and some others are going pro calibrated which will involve service menu, my question would be if the values are alterd in service menu to yeild a better PQ would the energy star be set off ? or what would happen?

i sure dont mind saving some money but not if it means sacrifising somewhat PQ as i got a tv for PQ not for saving electricity

I can't say exactly what entails in EnergyStar 3.0 but it's more stringent than 2.0

In terms of brightness, I've compared it side-by-side with Panasonic 800u and Kuro's brightness level is MUCH higher than 800u (which is EnergyStar 2.0 in standard mode). It doesn't sacrifice PQ of the Kuro at all.

Hamsamish09: video pattern only run for 1 hour and then the TV shuts itself down.

Yes I saw that. My 1140 doesn't have that feature. I think it is a nice feature rather than digging out my break-in disk after doing so. I have never seen any ir with my 7g but, it's a nice quick feature that I may never have to use.

Robert, D-Nice: What's the panel half life on the 9G? How many hours before brightness on the display is halved? Thanks! :)

Robert, D-Nice: What's the panel half life on the 9G? How many hours before brightness on the display is halved? Thanks! :)

Great question, I'd like to know that also...