... even longer to when SONY comes out with a affordable 40-46" OLED unit, decisions, decisions.

In the year 2525, if man is still alive, ...

This must be a world record for buyer's remorse and resolution.

It would appear that way, but it's not really buyer's remorse when I have full control over the entire transaction. And I still have 30 days from when I take possession of the unit to return if I like (not that I would unless something is wrong.)

So I'll go ahead and call this "buyers flexibility."

I need some help!

I'm looking to purchase my first plasma very, very soon.

I have enough money to buy a 5020. The downside to this is that I haven't read any real reviews - mostly speculation.

OR

I could buy a Panny 800U or 850U, have enough money left over to buy a PS3 and have a nice chunk of change saved up for a new A/V receiver. I have a Pio Elite A/V now, but it doesn't have HDMI capability/DTS-HD.

If I go by popular opinion, it would be the 5020. One of the forum sponsors emailed me and said that Panny's are about 85% good as Pioneer but Pioneer cost 30% more.

The bad thing for me is the layout of my living room. I don't know how I am going to do it.


I have a poorly laid out living room for surround sound as well--no back wall. The unit I'd suggest as a middle ground approach is the new Sony CT-100. It is a 3.1 sound bar/subwoofer combo that people are raving about. It got an excellent review at CNET as well. Of course, it isn't a surround sound set up, so it won't be able to give you true surround sound, but it would provide a simple, sleek, and easy upgrade to your TV's speakers. I know such a suggestion is blasphemous to audiophiles, but if you don't want to deal with setting up true 5.1 or 7.1, it is the best solution available. And, it doesn't need to bounce sound off a back wall like other speaker bars do. And it is only $300, so even if it doesn't prove to be your ultimate solution, it would make a nice, cheap upgrade to a surroundless bedroom TV.

I need some help!

I'm looking to purchase my first plasma very, very soon.

I have enough money to buy a 5020. The downside to this is that I haven't read any real reviews - mostly speculation.

OR

I could buy a Panny 800U or 850U, have enough money left over to buy a PS3 and have a nice chunk of change saved up for a new A/V receiver. I have a Pio Elite A/V now, but it doesn't have HDMI capability/DTS-HD.

If I go by popular opinion, it would be the 5020. One of the forum sponsors emailed me and said that Panny's are about 85% good as Pioneer but Pioneer cost 30% more.

The 5020's just started to ship so you may have to wait a little longer for a review of it, as fir the 850 Panasonics I do not know when they will start shipping.

In the year 2525, if man is still alive, ...

I'l fire up that hibernation unit. But seriously, I think SONY will have a affordable 40" OLED by 2010, just around the time I will be getting ready to upgrade again.

Of course, affordable is a relative term....

The 5020's just started to ship so you may have to wait a little longer for a review of it, as fir the 850 Panasonics I do not know when they will start shipping.

850 series Pannys have shipped. I have eight in my warehouse.

I will have to try to watch that Sweeny todd movie in surround sound. But to be honest, I tried watching it when it first hit DVD. I thought it would be awesome. But after watching it for about 10 minutes I was horrified as they busted into song and started singing:eek:.
I remember them singing about some pies in london and then I ran to the PS3 to get i out of there.lol. wasn't for me.lol. but maybe different with surround sound.lol

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but that Sweeney Todd is an adaptation of Stephen Sondheim's musical, so there'll be lots of singing.

I upgraded my sound system not long ago to an Onkyo 605 with a SVS speaker system. It sounds great, much better than my previous HTIB from Panasonic.

It would appear that way, but it's not really buyer's remorse when I have full control over the entire transaction. And I still have 30 days from when I take possession of the unit to return if I like (not that I would unless something is wrong.)

So I'll go ahead and call this "buyers flexibility."

So have you returned your 6020 yet, or, since you have 30 days then, when you have received your PRO-151FD, will you actually have both sets for a period of time before you return the 6020? It would be interesting to get impressions comparing the two.

I could buy a Panny 800U or 850U, have enough money left over to buy a PS3 and have a nice chunk of change saved up for a new A/V receiver. I have a Pio Elite A/V now, but it doesn't have HDMI capability/DTS-HD.

If I go by popular opinion, it would be the 5020. One of the forum sponsors emailed me and said that Panny's are about 85% good as Pioneer but Pioneer cost 30% more.

It's interesting when folks try to quantify subjective experience (my attempt failed earlier too). Here are a
few things I wish to convey:

1. Since your unsure of things, wait until all TVs are readily available and visit LOTS of stores to compare.
2. Consider your value now if you wish, but also consider yourself 6 months down the road asking if you made the right choice.
3. My PS3 is loud (60 gig ver) to a point where I must crank the sound system to drown out the damned fan.

Remember, TV's look tremendously different in the home than in a store. Heck, the room you put it in can make
all the difference in the world. IMHO, You won't see much difference between plasmas (if at all) in a very bright
room or setting (quite like a store). Also, don't get fooled into thinking a shared feed amongst TVs are good for
comparison. You need to see each TV with its own dedicated source to truly get a feel.

One last tip: Remember your budget. If you can afford a TV, that's what matters, not how much you can save.
Don't get me wrong, though, try to get the bests bargain that you can, but don't let that overshadow your original
goal: to get the best TV for your money. On the same token, don't equate price differences to be relative to the
value of a TV.

So have you returned your 6020 yet, or, since you have 30 days then, when you have received your PRO-151FD, will you actually have both sets for a period of time before you return the 6020? It would be interesting to get impressions comparing the two.


No, I never took possession of the 6020.

No, I never took possession of the 6020.

Ahh, I see, thanks for clarifying.

just saw this - the new signature line is about to be released in japan and the contrast ratio is 100,000:1. Last years 6010 was 20,000:1 and this years 6020 is about 40,000:1

I have to see this new one.

D-Nice, When are you going to be getting the display... No broken pictures Optivity. That was not building a better box, it was breaking a hole in the old on :DThe panel is here :) Getting it setup. Will post details later.

The panel is here :) Getting it setup. Will post details later.

WooHoo. My faith in humanity has been restored.

The panel is here :) Getting it setup. Will post details later.

ok everyone on the right chant: id-le
and everyone on the left, you chant: lu-min-e-scence!

GO! ;):D

Well, my 6020 came in today... but I decided to upgrade to a PRO-151FD, which will be here (Colorado) on Friday. :)

I'm tired of analyzing this stuff to death, I just want the best/most adjustable and to be done with it. I also figure that I get another year with the Elite's warranty and that, at 29, this is the time when my vision can easily discern a difference in superior PQ.

I am officially a PQ junkie.

OK. Does this mean that the Elite Pro 151FD will be available for delivery in Colorado, this Friday? I just called a Sacramento area Magnolia and they don't even have an availability date yet. How is this possible?

I just called a Sacramento area Magnolia and they don't even have an availability date yet. How is this possible?I know the feeling. :) I just pre-ordered my 151 at a Tweeter in Greenville, SC, and they didn't know when they'd be getting their sets shipped either.

Yeah, no kidding. I took my 5010 back and ordered the 5020. Although, with the preset settings, I wonder if I should go back to the 5010. If I keep spending all my time on AVS there will be a 111 in my family room when it's all said and done. :)

That's a danger of these forums. The sheer amount of information (not to mention speculation) can have you frazzled. The last time that happened to me was yesterday, when I read a post describing burn-in on a 5010, I think it was. I immediately second-guessed my tentative choice of a 5020, since burn-in fear was the reason I'd avoided considering plasmas at all. But it was resolved when I went into a BB and saw the 5010 look better than everything else on the wall with it. I'd not mind an Elite, but the form factor is problematic, plus the extra cost, especially since I also need to upgrade my computer (which, honestly, should come first). So unless the Elite is obviously, amazingly, incredibly better-looking, I'll stick with the 5020.

It appears that the 60" Signature series Pio plasmas were released in Japan today. They're calling it KRP-600M, but because its stand, speakers and tuner are optional I'm assuming this is the same plasma that's being called the Signature Series here in the USA.

Bad news is that it's retail price in Japan is 180,000 yen which translates to US$7,970 .... OUCH!! Of course, it remains to be seen what the street price will be in USA.

Here's the link: http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/11/pioneer-intros-60-inch-krp-600m-kuro-plasma-in-japan/

i was told at the pioneer store at south coast plasa that the new signature series tvs will be the same price as the elites.

they may have to change the model number - krp sounds too much like crap.

LOL "yes - i just got my crap pioneer tv." LOL

It appears that the 60" Signature series Pio plasmas were released in Japan today. They're calling it KRP-600M, but because its stand, speakers and tuner are optional I'm assuming this is the same plasma that's being called the Signature Series here in the USA.

Bad news is that it's retail price in Japan is 180,000 yen which translates to US$7,970 .... OUCH!! Of course, it remains to be seen what the street price will be in USA.

Here's the link: http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/11/pioneer-intros-60-inch-krp-600m-kuro-plasma-in-japan/

OK. Does this mean that the Elite Pro 151FD will be available for delivery in Colorado, this Friday? I just called a Sacramento area Magnolia and they don't even have an availability date yet. How is this possible?

I don't know how it is possible, but that is what they told me. They said they had them in stock at their distribution warehouse. Only time will tell if this is incorrect, but others have said similar things:

SLCentral, Yesterday, 8:20 pm:

"And here's the update:

The Princeton, NJ Magnolia store has EVERY SINGLE 9G KURO IN ITS WAREHOUSE. This means that pretty much any store in the central-NJ area can get any of these sets (PDP-5020, PDP-6020, PRO-111, PRO-151). As of today, if it is ordered today, it will get here in three days. That's right, the PRO-151/111 is available by Friday in the central-NJ area.

Confirmed!"

The panel is here :) Getting it setup. Will post details later.
Sweet!

The panel is here :) Getting it setup. Will post details later.

Excellent.

OK. Does this mean that the Elite Pro 151FD will be available for delivery in Colorado, this Friday? I just called a Sacramento area Magnolia and they don't even have an availability date yet. How is this possible?

Its possible but its hard to verify until they actually ship. Some places get units before others on the Elites.

Sound more important than video? I dunno about that.Right. ;)

I haven't set my mind on a surround system yet but I will probably get one this weekend.You might want to check out these if you are thinking of a home theater in a box set.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=553475&CTID=5000800

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=553474&CTID=5000800

Or this combinations of receiver/speakers.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance2.html

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?class=Receiver&m=TX-SR605&p=i

just saw this - the new signature line is about to be released in japan and the contrast ratio is 100,000:1. Last years 6010 was 20,000:1 and this years 6020 is about 40,000:1

I have to see this new one.

Are you sure about the 6020 CR because it should be 5X better than the 6010 (if blacks are .20 of last year and all other things equal)?
That would put the 6020 more in-line with the signature series.

no, i am not sure - its just the number i heard

Are you sure about the 6020 CR because it should be 5X better than the 6010 (if blacks are .20 of last year and all other things equal)?
That would put the 6020 more in-line with the signature series.

they may have to change the model number - krp sounds too much like crap.

LOL "yes - i just got my crap pioneer tv." LOL

That never stopped Toyota and their TuRD line.

The panel is here :) Getting it setup. Will post details later.Ok, the panel is setup and I just put a 0% stimuli test pattern on the screen......

Minimum luminance levels @ 730PM Eastern is DEFINITELY lower than my Elite 1150....and it's not by a small amount. Anyone who says the 9Gs vs 8Gs black level difference isn't obvious in your home with the blinds open is a damn lie. I'll get some real measurements when it's completely dark in my great room.

BTW, Movie mode is my preferred mode so far.

More to come later.........

^^^ Thanks D-Nice! I have a feeling that Im going to abandon the idea of an 1150hd and just go for the 5020 after reading your review :D

OK the time has come!!
Got my 6020 Today from Robert (*********************)!
No cracked screen, Powered up perfectly, Not one dead/stuck pixel.
Looks like the Kuro Gods have decided to shine thier light on me!
The delivery process went very well (some pictures added below).
Thanks Robert!!

The only bad thing is 35 minutes after the delivery was made I had to get dressed real quick and go to work :mad:.
Before I left I powered the TV on to make sure there was video on my PS3, Then entered D-Nices Break-in settings, and popped in the Break-in DVD.
I will be doing some experimenting when I get home from work tonight as well as taking some photos.
I took some photos of the delivery process and the TV.
Here they are::
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture004.jpg?t=1213229165
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture005.jpg?t=1213229252
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture006.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture007.jpg?t=1213229313
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture008.jpg?t=1213229357
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture009.jpg?t=1213229389
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture010.jpg?t=1213229417
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture012.jpg?t=1213229489
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture029.jpg?t=1213229537

It appears that the 60" Signature series Pio plasmas were released in Japan today. They're calling it KRP-600M, but because its stand, speakers and tuner are optional I'm assuming this is the same plasma that's being called the Signature Series here in the USA.

Bad news is that it's retail price in Japan is 180,000 yen which translates to US$7,970 .... OUCH!! Of course, it remains to be seen what the street price will be in USA.

Here's the link: http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/11/pioneer-intros-60-inch-krp-600m-kuro-plasma-in-japan/

Do you mean 810,000 yen? 180k yen is about $1700. I guess I could click on the link to find out but I gotta get running.

AMEN! Keep the thoughts comin'!

Minimum luminance levels @ 730PM Eastern is DEFINITELY lower than my Elite 1150....and it's not by a small amount. Anyone who says the 9Gs vs 8Gs black level difference isn't obvious in your home with the blinds open is a damn lie.

.
Wow. A posted pic of a post by D-Nice displayed ON a Kuro, talking ABOUT Kuro's... I think you just blew my mind!!

OK the time has come!!
Got my 6020 Today from Robert (*********************)!
No cracked screen, Powered up perfectly, Not one dead/stuck pixel.
Looks like the Kuro Gods have decided to shine thier light on me this time!
The delivery process went very well (some pictures added below).
Thanks Robert!!

The only bad thing is 35 minutes after the delivery was made I had to get dressed real quick and go to work :mad:.
Before I left I powered the TV on to make sure there was video on my PS3, Then entered D-Nices Break-in settings, and popped in the Break-in DVD.
I will be doing some experimenting when I get home from work tonight as well as taking some photos.
I took some photos of the delivery process and the TV.
Here they are::



Congrats Chad! It has been a long wait for you. Now I need a 60" monitor to view one of your pictures without scrolling. :D:D:D

Congrats Chad! It has been a long wait for you. Now I need a 60" monitor to view one of your pictures without scrolling. :D:D:D

Yea its image shack.
It doesn't scale them correctly.
I am gonna fix it.
anyone know of a good image host??

Yea its image shack.
It doesn't scale them correctly.
I am gonna fix it.
anyone know of a good image host??

I like photobucket, it's very easy to upload images and select the size you want

Do you mean 810,000 yen? 180k yen is about $1700. I guess I could click on the link to find out but I gotta get running.

Sorry ... I made a typo. The price quoted in the article was 850,000 yen.

That's a danger of these forums. The sheer amount of information (not to mention speculation) can have you frazzled. The last time that happened to me was yesterday, when I read a post describing burn-in on a 5010, I think it was. I immediately second-guessed my tentative choice of a 5020, since burn-in fear was the reason I'd avoided considering plasmas at all. But it was resolved when I went into a BB and saw the 5010 look better than everything else on the wall with it. I'd not mind an Elite, but the form factor is problematic, plus the extra cost, especially since I also need to upgrade my computer (which, honestly, should come first). So unless the Elite is obviously, amazingly, incredibly better-looking, I'll stick with the 5020.


Yes the best way to do it is buy your plasma and then dont read these forums anymore and you will be very happy with your tv.

Looks good chadmak!

Chris

Yes the best way to do it is buy your plasma and then dont read these forums anymore and you will be very happy with your tv.

Amen, I drive myself crazy with so much reading, which is followed by contemplation :eek:

The panel is here :) Getting it setup. Will post details later.

woooohoooooo

hurry up..... ;) (jk)

Congrats Chad! It has been a long wait for you. Now I need a 60" monitor to view one of your pictures without scrolling. :D:D:D

Yea its image shack.
It doesn't scale them correctly.
I am gonna fix it.
anyone know of a good image host??

Ok the pictures are fixed now! Let me know if you guys think I should scale them down some more and I will.
Sorry thats all the pictures I have (above) so far and I apologize for how crappy some look. My camera is junk.
More are on the way.

-Chadmak09

Pioneer distributes to east coast first, then west coast.

Ok the pictures are fixed now! Let me know if you guys think I should scale them down some more and I will.
Sorry thats all the pictures I have (above) so far and I apologize for how crappy some look. My camera is junk.
More are on the way.

-Chadmak09

Theyre perfect now, before they were life size! :D

OK the time has come!!
Got my 6020 Today from Robert (*********************)!
No cracked screen, Powered up perfectly, Not one dead/stuck pixel.
Looks like the Kuro Gods have decided to shine thier light on me!
The delivery process went very well (some pictures added below).
Thanks Robert!!

The only bad thing is 35 minutes after the delivery was made I had to get dressed real quick and go to work :mad:.
Before I left I powered the TV on to make sure there was video on my PS3, Then entered D-Nices Break-in settings, and popped in the Break-in DVD.
I will be doing some experimenting when I get home from work tonight as well as taking some photos.
I took some photos of the delivery process and the TV.
Here they are::
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture004.jpg?t=1213229165
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture005.jpg?t=1213229252
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture006.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture007.jpg?t=1213229313
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture008.jpg?t=1213229357
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture009.jpg?t=1213229389
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture010.jpg?t=1213229417
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture012.jpg?t=1213229489
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture029.jpg?t=1213229537

Congrats, Chad! The 3rd times a charm. I must say, that's the nicest box I've ever seen. Definitely handled with care. I'm sure you're bouncing off the walls at work right now. Have fun tonight! Blue

Ok, the panel is setup and I just put a 0% stimuli test pattern on the screen......

Minimum luminance levels @ 730PM Eastern is DEFINITELY lower than my Elite 1150....and it's not by a small amount. Anyone who says the 9Gs vs 8Gs black level difference isn't obvious in your home with the blinds open is a damn lie. I'll get some real measurements when it's completely dark in my great room.

BTW, Movie mode is my preferred mode so far.

More to come later.........

Off to a good start! Thanks for the update, D-Nice. Look forward to more and the t-minus 7 review.

Chad

Do the 3 HDMI sockets on the back of the 6020 face back or do they face down (as on the 6010)

Sorry, guys, for the reply to Chad and having to scroll through the pics again. I'm learning.

Chad

Do the 3 HDMI sockets on the back of the 6020 face back or do they face down (as on the 6010)

They face to the back now.
Which I like much better as it was kind of a pain for me to unplugg/plug-in my HDMI outputs on the 5080 becasue it faced down.
Also,
It was much easier for me to hook up my 24AWG monoprice HDMI cable this time. The 24AWG's are not good at getting into tight spots becasue you can't bend thenm much.
I like this design much much better.

Sorry, guys, for the reply to Chad and having to scroll through the pics again. I'm learning.

you can click edit on the post and delete the "[IMG XXXXXXXx]" from the post and they will disappear!

Thanks for the tip. Now, get back to work. :) Actually, I think I've blown 3 whole work days in the last week and a half on this site and looking for 5020 vs 5010 stuff. Yikes!

Alright who got the fingerprints on that beautiful 6020 panel?????:eek:

Is the Kuro emblem permanently attached to the upper right side of the bezel or is it just a sticker?

Originally posted by Chadmak09
"They face to the back now.
Which I like much better as it was kind of a pain for me to unplugg/plug-in my HDMI outputs on the 5080 becasue it faced down.
Also,
It was much easier for me to hook up my 24AWG monoprice HDMI cable this time. The 24AWG's are not good at getting into tight spots becasue you can't bend thenm much.
I like this design much much better."

Thanks, I see you are going to use a stand. I wonder if the rear facing HDMI sockets would be a problem with a thin wall mount and the stiff 24 guage HDMI cables. Perhaps a flexible adapter would be needed. Can you (or anyone tell). I vaguely remember a post about this but I don' think I could find it.

Alright who got the fingerprints on that beautiful 6020 panel?????:eek:


That wipes right off with dry paper towels. :) j/k

Is the Kuro emblem permanently attached to the upper right side of the bezel or is it just a sticker?

Good question.

Thanks for the tip. Now, get back to work. :) Actually, I think I've blown 3 whole work days in the last week and a half on this site and looking for 5020 vs 5010 stuff. Yikes!

You too? :D

They face to the back now.
Which I like much better as it was kind of a pain for me to unplugg/plug-in my HDMI outputs on the 5080 becasue it faced down.
Also,
It was much easier for me to hook up my 24AWG monoprice HDMI cable this time. The 24AWG's are not good at getting into tight spots becasue you can't bend thenm much.
I like this design much much better.

Damn, that is counterproductive to any non-articulating wall mount.
The downwards connection is so much easier for a mounted display if you can't pull the mount out from the wall.
And as you said, these HDMI cables do not like bending.

I want to find out if this is the same on the Elites.

yeah i was so disapointed when they changed that. i would love hdmi connections on the bottom.

If the Elites are downwards facing like the 8g's it wouldn't suprise me. More little things to seperate the line-up.
Sigh.

If the Elites are downwards facing like the 8g's it wouldn't suprise me. More little things to seperate the line-up.
Sigh.

Yep

Yep, as in they are downwards or yep you agree.

Yep, I would agree.

Originally posted by gregdpw
"yeah i was so disapointed when they changed that. i would love hdmi connections on the bottom."
Monoprice has two very inexpensive adapters, #2891 which is an 8 inch very flexible adapter and part #3733 which is a 90 degree adapter.

Hi everyone,
I was at Best Buy today and saw a 6010 without the bottom mounted speaker and the stand was flush with no "skinny legs" visible. They either modified the stand or used a 150fd elite stand. The tv was very stable. Is there a way to a attach a non elite tv to an elite stand. I cannot wall mount but do not want the bottom mounted speaker. I think it looks awful with the "skinny legs." I am asking this in reference to a 5020. Any help appreciated, Ben

Nice info., thanks for your post Neil!

"Monoprice has two very inexpensive adapters, #2891 which is an 8 inch very flexible adapter and part #3733 which is a 90 degree adapter."

Is it at all possible to lose any signal quality by running through extra adaptors or even a pass-through AV Reciever? As I understand it, because HDMI is a digital signal you either have it or you don't. Is this right?

Damn, that is counterproductive to any non-articulating wall mount.
The downwards connection is so much easier for a mounted display if you can't pull the mount out from the wall.
And as you said, these HDMI cables do not like bending.

I want to find out if this is the same on the Elites.

I didn't think about how it would work with a wallmount. :eek:
But then again I have never wallmounted.

Also,
When I was setting the Break-in settings I definitly felt like something was missing without the temp controls.

I have a question,
I have not had time to really go into the setting but exactly what settings are gone now??

Picture Detail:
DRE Picture:
Black Level:
ACL:
Enhancer Mode:
Gamma:
Color Detail:
Color Temp: CTI:
Noise Reduction:
DNR:
Field NR:

Maybe its just that some are located in a different spot now but I did not see any of them.

Eagles
I'm very happy to contribute at least a little something after four years of learning so much from everyone else.

FocusedOne
IMO there is no chance of the adapters degrading the signal (except theoretically) unless they are defective, damaged or corroded. But I am not an expert, though I was a Ham Radio operator in my youth (vacuum tube days) and still have my ticket, K2OWY

A little video from the Canadian Pioneer Roadshow...

http://www.marketnews.ca/videos_detail.asp?vid=131

They briefly present the 9G vs 8G sets, the new Signature Series and new receivers.

Enjoy!

Pépin

I didn't think about how it would work with a wallmount. :eek:
But then again I have never wallmounted.

Also,
When I was setting the Break-in settings I definitly felt like something was missing without the temp controls.

I have a question,
I have not had time to really go into the setting but exactly what settings are gone now??

Picture Detail:
DRE Picture:
Black Level:
ACL:
Enhancer Mode:
Gamma:
Color Detail:
Color Temp: CTI:
Noise Reduction:
DNR:
Field NR:

Maybe its just that some are located in a different spot now but I did not see any of them.

From what I understand, all the above are GONE. Or should I say...
pre-determined for us.

If the Elites are downwards facing like the 8g's it wouldn't suprise me. More little things to seperate the line-up.
Sigh.

Nope. They're just like the 6020 (facing outward) according to the .pdf illustrations on the 151 manual. I'd actually have been surprised if Pioneer made two different connection panels for these displays.

Hey guys,

Can anyone explain or tell me where to find info on what luminance level is?? I tried to google it but all I get is techno talk. Is it referring to brightness by any chance, and why is lower better??

Thanks

From what I understand, all the above are GONE. Or should I say...
pre-determined for us.
really? :eek:

that kind of sucks. what's left....just contrast/brightness/tint/sharpness? its hard to believe they've eliminated something as basic as color temp. :confused:

really? :eek:

that kind of sucks. what's left....just contrast/brightness/tint/sharpness? its hard to believe they've eliminated something as basic as color temp. :confused:

Yep. That's all folks. Pioneer is really pushing the new Optimum mode and how it creates the best pic possible. D-NICE posted a nice table that shows the presets for each AV mode. I printed it out, too lazy to type it all in. If I can find the post, I'll link it.

That wipes right off with dry paper towels. :) j/k

Actually a dry paper towel can sometimes leave small scratches. Better to use a micro-fiber cloth that's dampened with some plain water.

Yep. That's all folks. Pioneer is really pushing the new Optimum mode and how it creates the best pic possible. D-NICE posted a nice table that shows the presets for each AV mode. I printed it out, too lazy to type it all in. If I can find the post, I'll link it.

A/V Mode ---- DRE --- Black Level --- ACL --- Enhancer --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic------ High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance-- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie-------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game-------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard----- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On

The NR features are on for every A/V mode. Optimum mode changes these settings depending on what the light/color sensor detects. Also, there is no way in the SM to adjust these features.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by D-Nice : 05-21-08 at 03:56 PM.

Chad,

congrats on getting your Kuro damage free this time! You are hilariously hard-core taking pics of the delivery guy, lol! Only one prob, gotta put the speaker back on to hide the chicken legs!

OK......

I just finished playing with the set.....and yeah I "cheated" a little by playing the Transformers HDDVD :D

Minimum luminance levels.....I say levels because there are a few of them.....

Power On: 0.010fL
20 seconds after Power On: 0.0014fL
0% Stimuli: 0.0014fL
After 30-33 seconds of a 0% Stimuli test pattern: immeasurable (aka 0fL)That's right boys and girls the 9G Kuros are capable of an infinite on/off contrast ratio!!!!! Unfortunately this 0fL black level will not hold when regular content is on the screen (reverts to 0.0014fL). But "technically", absolute zero is in the Kuros.....if one strictly adheres to the method of calculating On/Off contrast ratios.

Peak brightness on a 100% full field white pattern is up compared to the 8G Kuros. I registered 19.3fL in Movie mode with the contrast set to 38.

Color points are extremely close to last year's non-Elite Kuros (spot on blues, over saturated green and red). Yellow and cyan are still outside of the HD colorspace (damn hardcoded Colorspace 1).

I post some charts tomorrow. I'm putting the 6020 into break-in mode.

Any questions, let me know :)

Just a big thanks to you, D-Nice!

Have a good break-in night! ;)

Just a big thanks to you, D-Nice!

Have a good break-in night! ;)

x2 :cool:

I cant wait!

That's awesome, D-Nice. Thanks for the update! What are your initial thoughts..better than the XX10 even without the tweakability?

OK......

I just finished playing with the set.....and yeah I "cheated" a little by playing the Transformers HDDVD :D

Minimum luminance levels.....I say levels because there are a few of them.....

Power On: 0.010fL
20 seconds after Power On: 0.0014fL
0% Stimuli: 0.0014fL
After 30-33 seconds of a 0% Stimuli test pattern: immeasurable (aka 0fL)That's right boys and girls the 9G Kuros are capable of an infinite on/off contrast ratio!!!!! Unfortunately this 0fL black level will not hold when regular content is on the screen (reverts to 0.0014fL). But "technically", absolute zero is in the Kuros.....if one strictly adheres to the method of calculating On/Off contrast ratios.

Peak brightness on a 100% full field white pattern is up compared to the 8G Kuros. I registered 19.3fL in Movie mode with the contrast set to 38.

Color points are extremely close to last year's non-Elite Kuros (spot on blues, over saturated green and red). Yellow and cyan are still outside of the HD colorspace (damn hardcoded Colorspace 1).

I post some charts tomorrow. I'm putting the 6020 into break-in mode.

Any questions, let me know :)


Thanks D-Nice.

Did you notice anything negative with regards to the hard coded
settings in the various A/V modes?

Thanks for the info D-Nice, very encouraging news. I'm looking forward to your full review once the set is broken-in and calibrated.

What are your thoughts on the lack of NR, gamma and other controls? Did you notice any artifacts while watching Transformers? How are the shadow details?

Any questions, let me know :)

Thanks for the review! If it's not too much touble, whenever you are listing your new measurements, can you include your previous 8G measurement.

Thanks!

A little video from the Canadian Pioneer Roadshow...

http://www.marketnews.ca/videos_detail.asp?vid=131

They briefly present the 9G vs 8G sets, the new Signature Series and new receivers.

Enjoy!

Pépin

Nice video. I'm going to post some screen captures that I thought were interesting. Even though what the displays really look like in person are hard to tell from a web video, at least both displays are subject to the same parameters of the limitations of the video in these comparisons. Since I am able to tell a difference with these limitations, I would think in person it would be noticeable, too.

In the below pics, the 8G is on top and the 9G is on the bottom.

This first pic is a couple seconds apart in the video (so her head is slightly more turned in one of them) but close enough to tell some differences. The flowers and her shirt seem to have more shadow detail.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2cohm5x.jpg

This one shows the blacker background on the 9G:
http://i25.tinypic.com/28ai9aw.jpg

Here is a pic of the 9G image as it pans lower down so it can be seen that it wasn't that the background was lighter under her arm - even under her arm on the 9G, it still shows blacker.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2955lxs.jpg

Below you can see more folds in the clothing of her dress on her hip. Also note the differences in the light cast on the ground to the left of her knee.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2wchcgw.jpg

His sleeves seem to have more shadow detail on the 9G, plus the objects near his hands do as well.
http://i26.tinypic.com/dqsweb.jpg

The glow behind her and also the shadow detail of her dress.
http://i27.tinypic.com/24e6s9i.jpg

The reflection of the flowers, especially the one all the way to the left, seems to have more detail.
http://i25.tinypic.com/qqwepe.jpg

OK......

I just finished playing with the set.....and yeah I "cheated" a little by playing the Transformers HDDVD :D

Minimum luminance levels.....I say levels because there are a few of them.....

Power On: 0.010fL
20 seconds after Power On: 0.0014fL
0% Stimuli: 0.0014fL
After 30-33 seconds of a 0% Stimuli test pattern: immeasurable (aka 0fL)That's right boys and girls the 9G Kuros are capable of an infinite on/off contrast ratio!!!!! Unfortunately this 0fL black level will not hold when regular content is on the screen (reverts to 0.0014fL). But "technically", absolute zero is in the Kuros.....if one strictly adheres to the method of calculating On/Off contrast ratios.

Peak brightness on a 100% full field white pattern is up compared to the 8G Kuros. I registered 19.3fL in Movie mode with the contrast set to 38.

Color points are extremely close to last year's non-Elite Kuros (spot on blues, over saturated green and red). Yellow and cyan are still outside of the HD colorspace (damn hardcoded Colorspace 1).

I post some charts tomorrow. I'm putting the 6020 into break-in mode.

Any questions, let me know :)




For peak brightness, what did the 8G displays register? How much of an increase are the 9G's?

Well Guys and Gals,

I ended up ordering a 151fd tonight.:-) I had no intention on doing this as I have been waiting for D-nice's review of the 6020.

I walked into BB to see if they had any 6020 on display which they didn't but the sales guy walked up and I started talking about the new 9G with him and I stated that I was going to order shortly. He said, stay right here and I'll see what I can do. He went off to a manager and he came back with thumbs up. He said he could match the lowest price I got. So I threw my card down and he said that they have over a 100 in the warehouse and I will get it on Saturday. I don't know if that will hold up but he did say that the computer shows they are in stock at the warehouse.

Does anyone have any experience with BB's calibration service? I purchased it but I'm not sure if I should cancel it but I don't know of any good services around.

Thank you to all the members here for all the information. I have been following this thread from the beginning and you guys and gals have been a great help in making my decision.

Congratulations asystole! Are you in New York City? I went to BB today to see if they had a ..20 in yet - but no luck.

I think the consensus here is that the BB callibration is at best a crap shoot. Some folks know what they're doing. Many went to get their certificate but are brand new callibrators. Also, many have less than ideal equipment. If you're in NYC, there's lots of world class callibrators that come through here. Check the signature of htwaits. He has a link to tons of callibration reports. UMR, who will be callibrating my 151, will be in NY in August. You can find him at accucalhd.com

Enjoy your 151!!

Like the comparison pics. Although they aren't of high quality, but really gives the members a chance to see the striking differences. Great job of pointing out the differences. The upgrade from a 10 to 20 looks to be worth it. This should lay to rest all of the questions of making the upgrade.

Chris

I can ALMOST guarantee you that they do not have 151s in stock.

It would be outrageous if they did.

Dennis

D-Nice, I'm so glad to hear your post on the black levels! Amazing. I think this set will be my final set for years to come!

Congrats asystole! With all this talk about the 151 "in warehouses", it makes me absolutely giddy to get mine! I hope that we on the west coast will be able to get them in a week or so.

OK......

I just finished playing with the set.....and yeah I "cheated" a little by playing the Transformers HDDVD :D

Minimum luminance levels.....I say levels because there are a few of them.....

Power On: 0.010fL
20 seconds after Power On: 0.0014fL
0% Stimuli: 0.0014fL
After 30-33 seconds of a 0% Stimuli test pattern: immeasurable (aka 0fL)That's right boys and girls the 9G Kuros are capable of an infinite on/off contrast ratio!!!!! Unfortunately this 0fL black level will not hold when regular content is on the screen (reverts to 0.0014fL). But "technically", absolute zero is in the Kuros.....if one strictly adheres to the method of calculating On/Off contrast ratios.

Peak brightness on a 100% full field white pattern is up compared to the 8G Kuros. I registered 19.3fL in Movie mode with the contrast set to 38.

Color points are extremely close to last year's non-Elite Kuros (spot on blues, over saturated green and red). Yellow and cyan are still outside of the HD colorspace (damn hardcoded Colorspace 1).

I post some charts tomorrow. I'm putting the 6020 into break-in mode.

Any questions, let me know :)


Is the process the same to get into the Service Menu as the XX10 series? There was a couple of members who said they tried the same sequence but it did not work on the XX20 series. This will determine my decision to keep the 5010 or go with the 5020. After making the adjustments to the offsets of the 5010 I could not go back to watching it not close to 6500K, the depth and detail in dark scenes was night and day. I noticed you said you were measuring peak brightness of 19.3 in MOVIE mode is this the mode you also measured minimum luminance levels in? If it was I am curious to the effects that Black Level ON has on the measurements. Since I noticed a big difference when changing the 6020 to GAME mode that has black level off when comparing to the 6010. If this does have a effect, can you measure the 6020 in game mode since that is the only mode in the XX20 series that has all contrast enhancers (DRE, Black Level,etc.) to OFF. I am sure this information will help some of us trying to make a decision between the XX10 or XX20 series. Thanks D-Nice.

The BB in Tustin, CA also says they have them in the wherehouse. I tried to make a deal but the KID I was talking too said list price or nothing. I might try again tomorrow with a manager.

Color points are extremely close to last year's non-Elite Kuros (spot on blues, over saturated green and red). Yellow and cyan are still outside of the HD colorspace (damn hardcoded Colorspace 1).


Do you think that colors are slightly better or slightly worse compared to the 8G non-elites? That is, do you think that Pioneer pushed red and green even harder this year in order to make these sets "pop" for the masses?

Any questions, let me know :)
Thanks for all the great info D-Nice. After watching the transformer HDDVD on the 6020, what are your initial thoughts on how it compares to the 8G Elites? Fair to say better PQ on the whole?

even though i dont know what you said D-nice i like the sound of your specs, can you explain to me ? lol


Ok, the panel is setup and I just put a 0% stimuli test pattern on the screen......

Minimum luminance levels @ 730PM Eastern is DEFINITELY lower than my Elite 1150....and it's not by a small amount. Anyone who says the 9Gs vs 8Gs black level difference isn't obvious in your home with the blinds open is a damn lie. I'll get some real measurements when it's completely dark in my great room.

BTW, Movie mode is my preferred mode so far.

More to come later.........

HUH??

Wow. A posted pic of a post by D-Nice displayed ON a Kuro, talking ABOUT Kuro's... I think you just blew my mind!!

To the guy that has money but wants to get a cheaper panny over a pioneer dont do that lol get better PQ over more stuff, what good is it for the guy that has low end stuff quickly when later he can get the best tv best BD etc because everytime theirs a better unit for cheaper over time

for the guy that got lucky wow a bestbuy matched a price of forum sponser? regardless if the date got pushed back you did it and got the best price from a local store...

After 30-33 seconds of a 0% Stimuli test pattern: immeasurable (aka 0fL)[/LIST]That's right boys and girls the 9G Kuros are capable of an infinite on/off contrast ratio!!!!! Unfortunately this 0fL black level will not hold when regular content is on the screen (reverts to 0.0014fL). But "technically", absolute zero is in the Kuros.....if one strictly adheres to the method of calculating On/Off contrast ratios.
Is this 0fL only achieved when the full screen gets "black"? What happens e.g. if you put up a test screen for half a minute which is half black and half white? Do the black pixels go to 0fL after half a minute?

Is this 0fL only achieved when the full screen gets "black"? What happens e.g. if you put up a test screen for half a minute which is half black and half white? Do the black pixels go to 0fL after half a minute?

0.0014fL from the sound of it. That's damn good (the 8Gs measure 0.008-0.004fL).

I agree, that's pretty darn good! I can be COMPLETELY happy with those numbers!

Does anyone have any experience with BB's calibration service? I purchased it but I'm not sure if I should cancel it but I don't know of any good services around.

I'd say cancel the calibration with BB, and look for a real pro to do it. There are way too many people that have posted in the forums here, that did have had BB do it, and they were not at all really happy with it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14054657#post14054657


About the only people who have posted anything postive about their calibrations that they had done by Best Buy, also seem to work for Best Buy in some capacity.

Does anyone know if I can attach a pair of decent quality bookshelf speakers (looking at kef iq1) directly to the back of a 5020? I do not want a receiver. Thanks

Hmm panel with ISF calibration support that has no AV optimum mode and panel with no ISF calibration but has AV optimum mode, if one has NO intention of doing ISF calibration at all ,what panal should one go for ?

ben are you saying that you dont like 5.1 surround sound since you dont want a receiver? and if the back of the tv has plugs to run the wire yes you can run speakers but you gotta see the watts the tv can drive them since you can damage the speakers and the tv

Does anyone know if I can attach a pair of decent quality bookshelf speakers (looking at kef iq1) directly to the back of a 5020? I do not want a receiver. Thanks

at first you confused me and i re read it and i think i understand, are you saying that if you should get a panel with isf calibration that has almost no av modes? vs a panel with no isf calibration but has options for av modes and fianly if you have no intention to do an isf calibration? is that your question? please try to make more sense :D but i think thats what you mean

Hmm panel with ISF calibration support that has no AV optimum mode and panel with no ISF calibration but has AV optimum mode, if one has NO intention of doing ISF calibration at all ,what panal should one go for ?

ben are you saying that you dont like 5.1 surround sound since you dont want a receiver? and if the back of the tv has plugs to run the wire yes you can run speakers but you gotta see the watts the tv can drive them since you can damage the speakers and the tv



at first you confused me and i re read it and i think i understand, are you saying that if you should get a panel with isf calibration that has almost no av modes? vs a panel with no isf calibration but has options for av modes and fianly if you have no intention to do an isf calibration? is that your question? please try to make more sense :D but i think thats what you mean

Hi Gus,

That is correct, i do not want 5.1 sound or additional equipment. I just want to connect two speakers that are of higher quality than the stock ones. If this cannot be done, I will just stick with the 5020, or maybe go with the 111 if it has better speakers.

Thanks :)

Well,
I just got thru setting up my 6020 and watching some of Transformers (HD-DVD), Troy (HDDVD), No country for old men (BLU-ray), I am Legend (Blu-ray), and Hulk (HD-DVD) in the new OPTIMUM mode. My initial impressions were that the colors looked pretty good and the overall quality was very good. The HD-DVD player I use is a Toshiba HD-A30 (1080p via HDMI) and my Blu-ray player is a PS3.
One thing that reallly stood out to me was the Blacks!
When I watched a widescreen BLu-ray, I honestly could not tell where the black bars ended and the Bezel began from 7 feet. No joke
I like the Optimum Performance Monitoring feature.
When engaged you can monitor the adjustments of the Histogram, RGB, Roomlight, Contrast, Brightness, color, sharpness, color temp, gamma and sound. that are automatically done as they are done. Just to play around, I engaged it and turned the lights in my living room on and off. You can see the roomlight bar increase and the settings start to adjust accordingly.
The average TV watcher would probably be happy with just putting it in Optimum mode and leaving it there.
Myself, I preferred going into Movie mode and adjusting a few things to my liking. I was able to get a better image for my taste. And to be honest I really miss the features that were taken away. There is really not that many settings to adjust. Just your A/V setting/mode (movie, optimum, standard, game, etc) and the basics.
But overall I was able to dial it in pretty good. I am anxiously awaiting to out in D-Nices reference settings. I am sure my picture will improve drastically and I will be changing all of them.
I also watched a little HD cable (Comcast 1080I with my Motorola HD-DVR DCT6412 connected via HDMI).
I was very impressed to say the least. And Standard Def comcast cable looked as good as I have ever seen it on a HDTV.
I then put in Call of duty4 on PS3 in game mode. It looked great! Motion looked absolutley wonderful.
Does anyone know if they improved the Speaker or the sound setup? Because the Sound was very good. It seemed a little better than my 5080.

Unfortunalty, I have experienced the "Buzz" for the first time. When the screen goes from dark to bright, I can hear the pitch of the Buzz change. When surfing the net on my PS3 I can hear it from about 9 feet away. When watching normal programming it is had to hear it unless the movie comes to a part where it gets quite all of a sudden in a movie, Then I can hear it.
Is there anything that can be done about this??

I took some more pictures and will be adding them in tommorrow.

-Chadmak09

it can be done if it has the connections like i said but as far as how many watts it can handle is the issue, usualy low end speakers are suttible. the elite does have better speakers then the regular non elite although that is a good ideal to upgrade its certainly not the only reason:D

although i gotta ask have you ever experience 5.1 surround sound? why not get a 5.1 set up? its not about being loud but crisp and clear as if you were there, i feel without 5.1 set up its the the same experience

Hi Gus,

That is correct, i do not want 5.1 sound or additional equipment. I just want to connect two speakers that are of higher quality than the stock ones. If this cannot be done, I will just stick with the 5020, or maybe go with the 111 if it has better speakers.

Thanks :)


chad well said! i just hope i dont get a PRO-111FD with a annoying buzz although i have a directv hd dvr hr20 (the one with ota plug yep old set)and its loud when im sleeping lol

Does anyone know if they improved the Speaker or the sound setup? Becasue the Sound was very good. It seemed a little better than my 5080.
-Chadmak09

Chand, Thanks for the update. The speakers did improve a little. They went from 17 to 18watts and added a sound enhancement (SRS Definition which is supossed to improve midrange and clarify voice) which I believe all the sound enhancements are Low/Mid/High/off.

it can be done if it has the connections like i said but as far as how many watts it can handle is the issue, usualy low end speakers are suttible. the elite does have better speakers then the regular non elite although that is a good ideal to upgrade its certainly not the only reason:D

although i gotta ask have you ever experience 5.1 surround sound? why not get a 5.1 set up? its not about being loud but crisp and clear as if you were there, i feel without 5.1 set up its the the same experience




chad well said! i just hope i dont get a PRO-111FD with a annoying buzz although i have a directv hd dvr hr20 (the one with ota plug yep old set)and its loud when im sleeping lol


Gus,
Thanks for the reply. My living arrangement will not allow a surround sound system. Also, i do not watch many movies....maybe one a month or so. If I can hook up some better speakers I will, if not ill stick with the ones that come with the tv. Thanks again

hey chad... did you ever see the 6010 perform or the 8 g elite for that matter.. i wonder how this set compares in comparison.. im just awaiting a review from d nice to go ahead and take the plunge.. i want the best panel for just about no more than 3500 dollars.. a elite is out of the question but i wonder how this tv set compares to the 6020 last years elite and to that of the best lcds out there like the sonys xbr series and the samsungs 750...any input from anyone that has done a comparison please let me know...

well the lcd you can throw that off the list and you cant budge to put another amount to the elite? and theirs an diffrence in upgrade. i know its hard to keep up tho this 146 page but some of the members said that the tv looks blacker then the 5010 they returned.. and all was based on a judgement from viewing a picture (out of a low end camera) out of a downsized and conpressed picture out of a pc moniter.

if budget permits or you can gain on the extra to get 9g elite i'd say do so if not get the 9g non elite ...'

sorry i gues you wanted chad's answer but i thought i'd say what i would think

I like the Optimum Performance Monitoring feature.
When engaged you can monitor the adjustments of the Histogram, RGB, Roomlight, Contrast, Brightness, color, sharpness, color temp, gamma and sound. that are automatically done as they are done. Just to play around, I engaged it and turned the lights in my living room on and off. You can see the roomlight bar increase and the settings start to adjust accordingly.
-Chadmak09

I can see myself doing the same thing, even after I've had the set awhile. I can also hear my wife saying, "Will you turn that d@*mn thing off??!! I can't even enjoy the movie!!" :)

Congratulations asystole! Are you in New York City? I went to BB today to see if they had a ..20 in yet - but no luck.

I think the consensus here is that the BB callibration is at best a crap shoot. Some folks know what they're doing. Many went to get their certificate but are brand new callibrators. Also, many have less than ideal equipment. If you're in NYC, there's lots of world class callibrators that come through here. Check the signature of htwaits. He has a link to tons of callibration reports. UMR, who will be callibrating my 151, will be in NY in August. You can find him at accucalhd.com

Enjoy your 151!!

Thanks Vashti,

I live on long island.

The sales guy at best buy said they only have 2 guys that do all there calibrations on long Island and they do alot so they are very experienced. Of course I'm not going by his word alone. I'll have to check out umr or some other locals.

I can ALMOST guarantee you that they do not have 151s in stock.

It would be outrageous if they did.

Dennis

I'll let you know tomorrow night. He said it will be in friday night but I can't pick it up until saturday because I have to get my friend truck. They offered to deliver it but I would have had to wait until next week so I told him I would pick it up.



Congrats asystole!

Thanks Aetherhole

The BB in Tustin, CA also says they have them in the wherehouse. I tried to make a deal but the KID I was talking too said list price or nothing. I might try again tomorrow with a manager.

Try another salesman. They can definitely move on the price as I found out.

The BB in Tustin, CA also says they have them in the wherehouse. I tried to make a deal but the KID I was talking too said list price or nothing. I might try again tomorrow with a manager.

Which BB did you go to in Tustin? The one at The District or at the Tustin Marketplace?

One of the salesmen at The District BB gave me a real attitude when I try to get a lower price on a 5080 display model. Actually got very hostile. Tried to tell me that his store is different and they dont have to discount prices.

Im sure all of the BBs in our area are pulling from the same wherehouse. Might be hard to make a good deal right now since they dont even have them on the floor yet.

OK......

I just finished playing with the set.....and yeah I "cheated" a little by playing the Transformers HDDVD :D

Minimum luminance levels.....I say levels because there are a few of them.....

Power On: 0.010fL
20 seconds after Power On: 0.0014fL
0% Stimuli: 0.0014fL
After 30-33 seconds of a 0% Stimuli test pattern: immeasurable (aka 0fL)That's right boys and girls the 9G Kuros are capable of an infinite on/off contrast ratio!!!!! Unfortunately this 0fL black level will not hold when regular content is on the screen (reverts to 0.0014fL). But "technically", absolute zero is in the Kuros.....if one strictly adheres to the method of calculating On/Off contrast ratios.

Peak brightness on a 100% full field white pattern is up compared to the 8G Kuros. I registered 19.3fL in Movie mode with the contrast set to 38.

Color points are extremely close to last year's non-Elite Kuros (spot on blues, over saturated green and red). Yellow and cyan are still outside of the HD colorspace (damn hardcoded Colorspace 1).

I post some charts tomorrow. I'm putting the 6020 into break-in mode.

Any questions, let me know :)

Thanks for posting the hard numbers. However, does that not mean that the 9G Kuros actually exhibit black level fluctuation?

Warmest regards
John

That's awesome, D-Nice. Thanks for the update! What are your initial thoughts..better than the XX10 even without the tweakability?Movie mode is better than any mode available on the xx10 series......minus accessing the SM.

Thanks for posting the hard numbers. However, does that not mean that the 9G Kuros actually exhibit black level fluctuation?

Warmest regards
JohnNo. The power on sequence is just like the 8Gs (initially brighter, then 0.004fL after 20 seconds).

However, this year, on a 0% stimuli signal the pixels shut completely off after 30-33 seconds on the pattern.

Panasonics exhibit black fluctuation. I saw zero black level changes during regular video content on the 6020.

Is this 0fL only achieved when the full screen gets "black"?Yes

What happens e.g. if you put up a test screen for half a minute which is half black and half white?[/QUOTE]0.0014fL.

Do the black pixels go to 0fL after half a minute?No

Any questions, let me know :)Are the blacks are noticeably better than the 8G's you've seen in your time?

Do you think the average viewer will notice the change from 8G blacks -> 9G blacks more than they will 9G blacks -> 10G blacks?

PS: How's the buzzing?.. :rolleyes: :D
PPS: Any general impressions after watching Transformers?

Thanks for all the great info D-Nice. After watching the transformer HDDVD on the 6020, what are your initial thoughts on how it compares to the 8G Elites? Fair to say better PQ on the whole?Well, compared to my 1150, I caould tell that the colors were more saturated (especially green). However, it wasn't anything I would label as "ewww" or "yuck".

When Blackout attacked the US airbase, picture depth was noticably improved....much, much deeper blacks. The black bars on the top and bottom of the screen were so black during high and average APL scenes, I literally could not see the difference between the screen and bezel......regarless of angle and/or distance. On my 1150, I could just barely make out the screen. With low APL scenes, I could distinguish between the bezel and screen. However, it was MUCH improved over my 1150.

Over all, I would put the 6020 over the 8G Elites......minus the greens.

Are the blacks are noticeably better than the 8G's you've seen in your time? Absolutely

Do you think the average viewer will notice the change from 8G blacks -> 9G blacks more than they will 9G blacks -> 10G blacks?Low APL scenes...yes. High/average APL scenes....probably not.

PS: How's the buzzing?.. :rolleyes: :DFull field white has a very faint buzz. I would say equal or slightly less than my 1150. Niether have a "loud" buzz.

Thanks D-Nice.

Did you notice anything negative with regards to the hard coded
settings in the various A/V modes?I only delt with Movie mode. I'll test the other modes after break-in. I found nothing wrong with how the hardcoded settings were setup. Pioneer should get kudos for "doing them right" :)

What are your thoughts on the lack of NR, gamma and other controls? Did you notice any artifacts while watching Transformers? How are the shadow details?Excellent shadows and zero artifacts. There is a slight hump on the lower end of the gamma curve. I'll study it more after break-in.

Thanks for the review! If it's not too much touble, whenever you are listing your new measurements, can you include your previous 8G measurement.

Thanks!Will do.

Well, compared to my 1150, I caould tell that the colors were more saturated (especially green). However, it wasn't anything I would label as "ewww" or "yuck".

Thanks for getting technical ;):rolleyes::D What I really wanna know is: does the 6020 constitute a "woohoo!"? ;):D

Over all, I would put the 6020 over the 8G Elites......minus the greens.
I believe that is an "ouch" to all the 8Gers out there. ;)

Excellent shadows and zero artifacts. There is a slight hump on the lower end of the gamma curve. I'll study it more after break-in.


Not sure if you saw this post a couple of pages back.... Is the process the same to get into the Service Menu as the XX10 series? There was a couple of members who said they tried the same sequence but it did not work on the XX20 series. This will determine my decision to keep the 5010 or go with the 5020. After making the adjustments to the offsets of the 5010 I could not go back to watching it not close to 6500K, the depth and detail in dark scenes was night and day. I noticed you said you were measuring peak brightness of 19.3 in MOVIE mode is this the mode you also measured minimum luminance levels in? If it was I am curious to the effects that Black Level ON has on the measurements. Since I noticed a big difference when changing the 6020 to GAME mode that has black level off when comparing to the 6010. If this does have a effect, can you measure the 6020 in game mode since that is the only mode in the XX20 series that has all contrast enhancers (DRE, Black Level,etc.) to OFF. I am sure this information will help some of us trying to make a decision between the XX10 or XX20 series. Thanks D-Nice.

Is the process the same to get into the Service Menu as the XX10 series?No. I'm working on getting the new sequence.

I noticed you said you were measuring peak brightness of 19.3 in MOVIE mode is this the mode you also measured minimum luminance levels in?Yes

If it was I am curious to the effects that Black Level ON has on the measurements.From the initial tests, I saw nothing that was detrimental. This might change after I do more thorough tests.

If this does have a effect, can you measure the 6020 in game mode since that is the only mode in the XX20 series that has all contrast enhancers (DRE, Black Level,etc.) to OFF. I am sure this information will help some of us trying to make a decision between the XX10 or XX20 series. Thanks D-Nice.I'll check all modes and compare them after break-in.

Do you think that colors are slightly better or slightly worse compared to the 8G non-elites? That is, do you think that Pioneer pushed red and green even harder this year in order to make these sets "pop" for the masses?They are very similar to last year's non-Elites. I personally prefer colorspace 2 on the Elites.

I'll check all modes and compare them after break-in.


OK....Thanks for taking the time D-Nice.

wow Thanks D-nice if the 9g non elite out performed the 8g elite i can only imagen what the 9g elite will do.


Well, compared to my 1150, I caould tell that the colors were more saturated (especially green). However, it wasn't anything I would label as "ewww" or "yuck".

When Blackout attacked the US airbase, picture depth was noticably improved....much, much deeper blacks. The black bars on the top and bottom of the screen were so black during high and average APL scenes, I literally could not see the difference between the screen and bezel......regarless of angle and/or distance. On my 1150, I could just barely make out the screen. With low APL scenes, I could distinguish between the bezel and screen. However, it was MUCH improved over my 1150.

Over all, I would put the 6020 over the 8G Elites......minus the greens.

Movie mode is better than any mode available on the xx10 series......minus accessing the SM.

I'd say pioneer may of hit the nail on the head wouldn't you say so D-nice?

I only delt with Movie mode. I'll test the other modes after break-in. I found nothing wrong with how the hardcoded settings were setup. Pioneer should get kudos for "doing them right" :)


Rougebear i would say based on what D-nice has i think that is enought to determine that the 9g is better then the 8g, give him more time to know the results about close to d65k he barely got the set :D

Not sure if you saw this post a couple of pages back.... Is the process the same to get into the Service Menu as the XX10 series? There was a couple of members who said they tried the same sequence but it did not work on the XX20 series. This will determine my decision to keep the 5010 or go with the 5020. After making the adjustments to the offsets of the 5010 I could not go back to watching it not close to 6500K, the depth and detail in dark scenes was night and day. I noticed you said you were measuring peak brightness of 19.3 in MOVIE mode is this the mode you also measured minimum luminance levels in? If it was I am curious to the effects that Black Level ON has on the measurements. Since I noticed a big difference when changing the 6020 to GAME mode that has black level off when comparing to the 6010. If this does have a effect, can you measure the 6020 in game mode since that is the only mode in the XX20 series that has all contrast enhancers (DRE, Black Level,etc.) to OFF. I am sure this information will help some of us trying to make a decision between the XX10 or XX20 series. Thanks D-Nice.


THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS Oh D-nice can i fianly claim that (so far the 9g non elite have outperformed the 8g elite) well that is how i feel. Holy SH*T was my first word that came out when i read D-nice post

What I really wanna know is: does the 6020 constitute a "woohoo!"? ;):DI'll let you know after I see the 9G Elites ;)

I'll let you know after I see the 9G Elites ;)

Oooh. When is that by the way? Any plans to have one in your hands soon? :D

Any plans to have one in your hands soon? :D;)

No. The power on sequence is just like the 8Gs (initially brighter, then 0.004fL after 20 seconds).

However, this year, on a 0% stimuli signal the pixels shut completely off after 30-33 seconds on the pattern.

Panasonics exhibit black fluctuation. I saw zero black level changes during regular video content on the 6020.

Thanks for your quick reply. May I know the instruments you are using to measure such low black levels, where accuracy may be suspect? I'm not doubting your numbers of course, but just curious.

Warmest regards
John

Maybe I've missed the answer to this question, though I've kept up with this thread pretty well, or maybe it hasn't been addressed because it hasn't been an issue with recent models (though it was with my 5070HD):

On the 9G Pioneers, are the side bars for 4:3 material black? Or are they gray (like they were defaulted to on my 5070HD and which I had to make black through the service menu)?

I detest(ed) the gray sidemask and wanted to be sure not to be stuck with it.

Any information would be appreciated. Sorry if this has been addressed already.

Update: Having checked the 6020 manual (should have thought of that before), I have more, related questions. Page 60 of the 6020 manual says:

"Lighten Side Masks
If content appears with bars (side masks) on each side of a picture when the screen size is 4:3 and Side Mask Detection is set to Mode 1 or Mode 2, the bars automatically change from black to gray. However, the gray is fairly dark. To change the bars to a lighter shade of gray, follow the steps below.
1 ) Access the Option through the Setup.
2 ) Select Side Mask from the Option menu.
3 ) Select Brightness Sync. from the submenu.
4 ) Select the desired parameter."

This does not say, but it may suggest, that there is no mode for black (as opposed to "fairly dark" gray) sidemasks. Does anyone know if that is right?

D,

As many have observed and acknowledged, including yourself I believe, there is a definte differnce in brightness between the 768p 8g's and the 1080p 8g's (pre calibration of course)

That being said my question to you is would you say the 9g you currently have actually look as bright or brighter as your 768p Elite before tweaking and ultimatley brighter than the 1080p 8g's?

I know you posted your measurement of peak brightness but since Im still a novice at all this technical stuff a simple comparison in brightness pre calibration between the 8g's and 9g's would be very helpful to me.

This is only of intrest to me as you know because of all the light I have coming in during the day and would like a little more flexability than I did with the 110 or as at least as much as I had with my 1150.

THANKS AS ALWAYS!

My 5020 is on its way. Estimated delivery is next Wednesday. :)

Now I have to figure out how to get rid of my Sony 50A10.

Movie mode is better than any mode available on the xx10 series......minus accessing the SM.

Thanks for the reply, D. That helps my decision in picking up the 5020 today as opposed to getting back the 5010 I took back last week. Although, like I said, if I stay on AVS I'll have a 111 before long!

D nice,

Grayscale accuracy is really important to me. After doing the RGB SM adjustments to my 5010 I was completly happy with the picture. Will the 5020 be able to be tweaked to achieve that accurate measurment of grayscale?

he has yet to find out a way to get into service menu

In reading the owners manual for the pdp-5020,Isaw no color temp control.Is that something else that has been taken away and put on the elite?

In reading the owners manual for the pdp-5020,Isaw no color temp control.Is that something else that has been taken away and put on the elite?


its answerd a few post back but a somewhat settings have been removed and hardcoded into the picture modes oh and the SM cannot change it i belive

A/V Mode ---- DRE --- Black Level --- ACL --- Enhancer --- Gamma --- CTI

Dynamic------ High ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Performance-- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Movie-------- Off -------- On ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 1 ------ On
Sports------- Mid -------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Game-------- Off -------- Off ------- Off ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On
Standard----- Mid ------- On ------- On ------- 2 ---------- 2 ------ On

The NR features are on for every A/V mode. Optimum mode changes these settings depending on what the light/color sensor detects. Also, there is no way in the SM to adjust these features.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Over all, I would put the 6020 over the 8G Elites......minus the greens.

Isn't this like saying I'll take the 6020 over the 8G ELITES if you don't mind getting the wrong color?

I've think I've seen some pre and post calibration reports on 8G Elites, that were initially set up with your reference settings, that indicated the color points were pretty 'spot on' even before calibration.

I don't think that was the case with the 8G Non-Elites pre-calibration. And most of your comments thus far have indicated the color of the 6020 is slightly more oversaturated as compared to the 8G Non-Elites.

Is it your hope that setting up the RGB parameters in the service menu, even with the hard-coded colorspace 1, you'll be able to get better color mapping than even the 8G ELITES?

Or are you saying that the 2/3 reduction in blacks (.004 > .014 fL) is enough of a difference that you would choose the 6020 even if you can never get the color as good as the 8G Elites?

Or are you simply saying, based on black levels and leaving color out of the equation, I'd choose the 6020.

Unfortunately this 0fL black level will not hold when regular content is on the screen (reverts to 0.0014fL).


How did this compare with your measurements (same instrumentation) from last year...or did you do it on a 6010?

Thanks for your quick reply. May I know the instruments you are using to measure such low black levels, where accuracy may be suspect? I'm not doubting your numbers of course, but just curious.

Warmest regards
JohnI borrowed a CS-1000. I had to return it today :(

Going forward I'll be using a good ol' AEMC-813.

Thanks for all the great info D-Nice. After watching the transformer HDDVD on the 6020, what are your initial thoughts on how it compares to the 8G Elites? Fair to say better PQ on the whole?

I'll guess that blacks will be better and color will be worse than 8g Elites. I see no way the color could be the equal of the Elites given the lack of adjustability. So it's give and take.

Nope. They're just like the 6020 (facing outward) according to the .pdf illustrations on the 151 manual. I'd actually have been surprised if Pioneer made two different connection panels for these displays.

Thanks Ken!
What a shame.

D,

As many have observed and acknowledged, including yourself I believe, there is a definte differnce in brightness between the 768p 8g's and the 1080p 8g's (pre calibration of course)

That being said my question to you is would you say the 9g you currently have actually look as bright or brighter as your 768p Elite before tweaking and ultimatley brighter than the 1080p 8g's?

I know you posted your measurement of peak brightness but since Im still a novice at all this technical stuff a simple comparison in brightness pre calibration between the 8g's and 9g's would be very helpful to me.

This is only of intrest to me as you know because of all the light I have coming in during the day and would like a little more flexability than I did with the 110 or as at least as much as I had with my 1150.

THANKS AS ALWAYS!The 6020 is equal and sometimes brighter than my 1150 .

D nice,

Grayscale accuracy is really important to me. After doing the RGB SM adjustments to my 5010 I was completly happy with the picture. Will the 5020 be able to be tweaked to achieve that accurate measurment of grayscale?Once I get into the SM, it will be easy to achieve D65.

In reading the owners manual for the pdp-5020,Isaw no color temp control.Is that something else that has been taken away and put on the elite?Yep

hey dnice, others are reporting the buzz issue already. does your 6020 have that noticeable buzz too?

so pioneer has changed the service menu access method on the 9g, hmmm maybe they are reading the forums and wanted to keep us outta there, for a short time, lol till someone gets the info :)

Excellent shadows and zero artifacts. There is a slight hump on the lower end of the gamma curve. I'll study it more after break-in.

Thanks D-nice.:D

When you do your full review, could you use a test pattern to verify that the 6020 is resolving every line/pixel of a 1080i/p signal (when using "Dot by Dot"), please.

Thanks

Isn't this like saying I'll take the 6020 over the 8G ELITES if you don't mind getting the wrong color?Pretty much....but please remember this is based on one movie and a few test patterns. I'll give a full report next week.

I don't think that was the case with the 8G Non-Elites pre-calibration. And most of your comments thus far have indicated the color of the 6020 is slightly more oversaturated as compared to the 8G Non-Elites.No they are about equal.

Is it your hope that setting up the RGB parameters in the service menu, even with the hard-coded colorspace 1, you'll be able to get better color mapping than even the 8G ELITES?No

Or are you saying that the 2/3 reduction in blacks (.004 > .014 fL) is enough of a difference that you would choose the 6020 even if you can never get the color as good as the 8G Elites?With Movie mode, I could see how someone would choose the non-Elite 9Gs over an Elite 8G. However, I want it all so that means a 9G Elite :D

Thanks D-nice.:D

When you do your full review, could you use a test pattern to verify that the 6020 is resolving every line/pixel of a 1080i/p signal (when using "Dot by Dot"), please.

ThanksYes

Thanks for getting technical ;):rolleyes::D What I really wanna know is: does the 6020 constitute a "woohoo!"? ;):D


I believe that is an "ouch" to all the 8Gers out there. ;)

Is and isn't. The more accurate colors and controls are nice.
The deeper blacks on the 9g's are very nice along with the increased contrast.
Now the 9g Elites, that's what I'm eager to see.
Personally the non-elites will not get me to sell my 8g Elite, the 9g Elites most likely will.

How did this compare with your measurements (same instrumentation) from last year...or did you do it on a 6010?I was using a CS-1000 last night (just testing the meter). Going forward I'll use a AEMC-813 for luminance readings and PR-655 for grayscale (what I used with my 1150 and other 8G Kuros I calibrated).

I didn't realy need any instrument to discern the difference in black levels. It's quite obvious...especially with all of the lights out. At one point last night, my 1150 was a backlight for the 6020 :)

Once I get into the SM, it will be easy to achieve D65.


D-Nice, I do not know if you know this off hand but do you know what preset modes use the "MID" color space on the XX20 series?

hey dnice, others are reporting the buzz issue already. does your 6020 have that noticeable buzz too?

so pioneer has changed the service menu access method on the 9g, hmmm maybe they are reading the forums and wanted to keep us outta there, for a short time, lol till someone gets the info :)Best believe Pioneer employees are on the forum....watching ;)

Yes the 6020 buzzes. However it does not buzz any louder than my 1150. My refrigerator's compressor has a louder buzz than my 1150 or 6020....ditto when compared to my SA8300 cable box.

Please remember that room acoustics play a huge role in "buzzing"

D-Nice, I do not know if you know this off hand but do you know what preset modes use the "MID" color space on the XX20 series?I'm not sure as I only used Movie mode last night.

I just ordered a PRO-151FD from Robert (thanks!) and have been reading here about the break-in DVD. Does that come with the TV or is that some third-party disc I should pick up in advance?

I apologize if this was asked already, but I didn't see it.

I'm so excited about these plasmas! I just ordered a ton Blu-rays, including such blackfests as 2001, Dark City, Batman Begins and The Lives of Others. These titles should beautiful on the 9g plasmas with their excellent black level! Hopefully the Elites will go even deeper than 6020's 0.0014fL, 0.0008fL anybody?

Dnice,

You have any way of testing motion resolution? If so, that'd be greatly appreciated. Also, thanks much for all your feedback!

I just ordered a PRO-151FD from Robert (thanks!) and have been reading here about the break-in DVD. Does that come with the TV or is that some third-party disc I should pick up in advance?

I apologize if this was asked already, but I didn't see it.

Check out the first post of this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858851

Hopefully the Elites will go even deeper than 6020's 0.0014fL, 0.0008fL anybody?

:D D-Nice is this possible?

Originally Posted by FocusedOne:

Well, my 6020 came in today... but I decided to upgrade to a PRO-151FD, which will be here (Colorado) on Friday. :)

This must be a world record for buyer's remorse and resolution.

____________________________________________________________ ____

Isn't this like saying I'll take the 6020 over the 8G ELITES if you don't mind getting the wrong color?

I've think I've seen some pre and post calibration reports on 8G Elites, that were initially set up with your reference settings, that indicated the color points were pretty 'spot on' even before calibration.

I don't think that was the case with the 8G Non-Elites pre-calibration. And most of your comments thus far have indicated the color of the 6020 is slightly more oversaturated as compared to the 8G Non-Elites.

Is it your hope that setting up the RGB parameters in the service menu, even with the hard-coded colorspace 1, you'll be able to get better color mapping than even the 8G ELITES?

Or are you saying that the 2/3 reduction in blacks (.004 > .014 fL) is enough of a difference that you would choose the 6020 even if you can never get the color as good as the 8G Elites?

Or are you simply saying, based on black levels and leaving color out of the equation, I'd choose the 6020.

Uh oh! Sounds like one of the first cases of 8G buyer's remorse. :rolleyes:

The new Elites are in the warehouse and are currently available. its a glitch in the system, they are not supposed to be available till the release date. it will be fixed soon so I would hurry.

Focusedone........I think you read his post wrong.

Dnice,

You have any way of testing motion resolution? If so, that'd be greatly appreciated. Also, thanks much for all your feedback!Will the Silicon Optix disc do?

:D D-Nice is this possible?Not sure. I know my AEMC-813 will not read 0.0008fL. It only goes down to 0.001fL.

Will the Silicon Optix disc do?

I don't see that listed here: http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm

After some googling the best I can come up with is this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1014030

Focusedone........I think you read his post wrong.

If I did, then I apologize. It came across as snide to me. I guess I've read into posts a little more since 'optivity' asked whether I had a home to put my new display in - which I also thought was kind of condescending. You'd think that somebody with 8,000+ posts could stay on topic.

I borrowed a CS-1000. I had to return it today :(

Going forward I'll be using a good ol' AEMC-813.

Wow, that's probably as accurate as you can get (within home/ pro settings). Shame you had to return it.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought AEMC-813 is an illuminance meter which measures in lux or foot-candles? Can it be relied upon to provide ftL (i.e. luminance) readings?

Warmest regards
John

Which BB did you go to in Tustin? The one at The District or at the Tustin Marketplace?

One of the salesmen at The District BB gave me a real attitude when I try to get a lower price on a 5080 display model. Actually got very hostile. Tried to tell me that his store is different and they dont have to discount prices.

Im sure all of the BBs in our area are pulling from the same wherehouse. Might be hard to make a good deal right now since they dont even have them on the floor yet.
I went to the BB in Tustin Market Place. The one at the District is smaller IMO and doesn't have a Magnolia Room.

Pre-ordered our PRO-111FD from Vann's (we have a store close) and they're delivering the last day of June or the first of July. I'm excited and nervous!

I only delt with Movie mode. I'll test the other modes after break-in. I found nothing wrong with how the hardcoded settings were setup. Pioneer should get kudos for "doing them right" :)

So far, it sounds as if Pioneer has done them right.:)

This will make many people who were worried about the hard coded
settings having an ill effect on pq feel better.

Thanks for the updates.

I think we all wish they were able to be manula controlled though, regardless.
But if they presumibly set them up in the best possible way for HD sources then I would agree it is better than was worried.

The new Elites are in the warehouse and are currently available. its a glitch in the system, they are not supposed to be available till the release date. it will be fixed soon so I would hurry.

Just checked and its not a glich. BBY received their shippment 3 weeks ahead of time. wont be online or in stores for 3 weeks though.

I think we all wish they were able to be manula controlled though, regardless.
But if they presumibly set them up in the best possible way for HD sources then I would agree it is better than was worried.

In all honesty, I would love to have total control of those settings
too, just like in my 8G, but as long as Pioneer set them up properly it
shouldn't be a problem.

So far, D-nice hasn't seen anything negative with the hardcoded
settings but keep in mind he only tested Movie mode.

In using the Evangelo2's Break-in DVD I understood that we were supposed to use the break-in settings D-Nice posted for the 6010. But,as some of those setting cannot be made on the 6020 because of its lack of adjustability, should we ignore those and just make the settings we can or are there a whole new set of settings.
Thanks

In all honesty, I would love to have total control of those settings
too, just like in my 8G, but as long as Pioneer set them up properly it
shouldn't be a problem.

So far, D-nice hasn't seen anything negative with the hardcoded
settings but keep in mind he only tested Movie mode.

I actually change some things depending on the soucre, such as DRE to Low for less than stellar sources and "Off' for good sources.
So they wont always be perfectly set-up for everyone.
This is not a bash as I am a Pioneer guy for the Kuro's.

In using the Evangelo2's Break-in DVD I understood that we were supposed to use the break-in settings D-Nice posted for the 6010. But,as some of those setting cannot be made on the 6020 because of its lack of adjustability, should we ignore those and just make the settings we can or are there a whole new set of settings.
Thanks

Yes, ignore the missing settings. This question was already answered by profis.

Uh oh! Sounds like one of the first cases of 8G buyer's remorse. :rolleyes:

No, I just wanted to clarify D-Nice's words.

Seems like others took them as an endorsement of the 6020 over the 8G Elites - which it wasn't - unless color isn't important to you.

In using the Evangelo2's Break-in DVD I understood that we were supposed to use the break-in settings D-Nice posted for the 6010.Keep in mind that the DVD can be used with any settings - like the reference settings for the 8G model closest to your 9G set.

The break-in settings must NOT be used without the DVD.

Wow, that's probably as accurate as you can get (within home/ pro settings). Shame you had to return it.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought AEMC-813 is an illuminance meter which measures in lux or foot-candles? Can it be relied upon to provide ftL (i.e. luminance) readings?

Warmest regards
JohnYes the 813 is only for luminance. I have a PR-655 plus my eyes for everything else :)

It's quite easy to convert to fL from lux....just mulitply by 0.929.

So far, it sounds as if Pioneer has done them right.:)

This will make many people who were worried about the hard coded
settings having an ill effect on pq feel better.

Thanks for the updates.

I'm not sure how someone can reach that conclusion given that he has only checked out MOVIE mode.

Personally I find MOVIE mode incredibly dark and, if I had to use it full time, I'd look elsewhere.

I don't see that listed here: http://www.hqv.com/benchmark.cfm

After some googling the best I can come up with is this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1014030

I have the HDDVD version listed here:
http://www.hqv.com/benchmark/purchaseForm.cfm?productID=6b417002-102d-1076-5500-c31041318153

I might purchase the BD version today or tomorrow.

I'm not sure how someone can reach that conclusion given that he has only checked out MOVIE mode.

Personally I find MOVIE mode incredibly dark and, if I had to use it full time, I'd look elsewhere.On the 9Gs, you must make sure you turn the power save mode to "Off" ;)

On the 9Gs, you must make sure you turn the power save mode to "Off" ;)

D-Nice, you know most of us just blindly follow all your recommendations and really appreciate your help here:). I am just wondering what is wrong with Energy Save Modes? if you have a minute:)

D-Nice, you know most of us just blindly follow all your recommendations and really appreciate your help here:). I am just wondering what is wrong with Energy Save Modes? if you have a minute:)It significantly reduces peak light output.

Anyone else think it's time this thread be made a sticky?

Sorry, but I have to ask again: any improvements in the pure cinema modes
(especially smooth?). I'm very interested in knowing. Thanks.

PS, can someone remind me the thickness of the elite/non-elite vs. the signature series?

I was one reportomg buzzing last night. My room is pretty square with good acoustics..so would here everything. However, as the burn in DVD was being used oin the 6020...it actually was pretty quiet. I think it has gotten much better as the unit gets broken in.

What is Smooth for on the 8G Elites?
I never see anyone reccomend it for any source?

D-Nice,

Simple question: if you could trade in your 1150HD elite 8G Kuro for a non-elite 9G Kuro, would you do it? Is it a close call, or a "no brainer" decision based on the improvement in black levels?

I was one reportomg buzzing last night. My room is pretty square with good acoustics..so would here everything. However, as the burn in DVD was being used oin the 6020...it actually was pretty quiet. I think it has gotten much better as the unit gets broken in.

That is starnge that breaking it in would make the buzzing go away. D-Nice any buzzing reports on your screen.

That is starnge that breaking it in would make the buzzing go away. D-Nice any buzzing reports on your screen.
Nothing that I would classify as excessive.

Sorry, but I have to ask again: any improvements in the pure cinema modes
(especially smooth?). I'm very interested in knowing. Thanks...


I'm interested in this as well on the non-elites.

D-Nice,

Simple question: if you could trade in your 1150HD elite 8G Kuro for a non-elite 9G Kuro, would you do it? Is it a close call, or a "no brainer" decision based on the improvement in black levels?I can't give a complete answer to this question right now as I have not had a chance to fully test everything out. If I only went with what I saw last night, I would have to say probably. However, I have yet to test any SDTV, SD DVD, or HD cable sources.

Nothing that I would classify as excessive.

The same as any other plasma you would get?

Sorry, but I have to ask again: any improvements in the pure cinema modes
(especially smooth?). I'm very interested in knowing. Thanks.

PS, can someone remind me the thickness of the elite/non-elite vs. the signature series?I only used Advance Pure Cinema last night. I'll test Smooth mode later.

The same as any other plasma you would get?Same as my 1150.....which has the simplistic "plasma buzz"

D-Nice,

1. Is the screen on the 9G tinted any darker than the 8G?
2. I assume the answer is yes, but now in a room with lighting when you first turn the 9G on I assume you can't see the screen glow at on when you've turned the power on correct? I can see the screen slightly glow on my 8G when I turn the TV on.
3. Not sure you can answer this or not yet but is shadow detail equal or better than non-elite 8Gs given there's no gamma adjustment?

Thanks!

The 6020 is equal and sometimes brighter than my 1150 .

Good to know and thanks for confirming this for me! Your impressions thus far, especially in regards to black levels, have me extremley anxious to finally see one of these bad boys in action.

Come to think of it I have plans next week w/ the wife to head up to your neck of the woods for a long weekend to see and stay with some old friends.
I was thinking maaaaybe while Im up there, you know with the set pretty much broken in and all ;);) I could take a little sneak peak :D

To all 8G and 9G owners.

I've pretty much talked myself into the 151 with only one concern. This is "How much power does a 60" panel consume?". I know from the posted manual that the maximum power rating is over 500W (I can't remeber the exact number). But what I'm wondering is how this releates to a typical usage. In other words, would two of these things feel like my wife's 1000W hairdryer? Or, do they typically run much cooler when watching the news, Vanna White and the occasional movie?

I'm thrilled that the standby power has been reduced from 20W down to less than 1W (again trying to get these numbers from memory).

I can maybe resist the urge to upgrade from my 36" tube TV if I thought that the 10G will be a significant power reduction. But, then again, if these do not run all that hot I can maybe upgrade this year.

Thanks for all of your help.

Carl

I have the HDDVD version listed here:
http://www.hqv.com/benchmark/purchaseForm.cfm?productID=6b417002-102d-1076-5500-c31041318153

I might purchase the BD version today or tomorrow.

I don't think there is a motion resolution test on the HQV. Only on the disc in the other link I gave you.

I only used Advance Pure Cinema last night. I'll test Smooth mode later.

Was your HD-DVD player outputting 1080p/24 or 1080i?

Yes the 813 is only for luminance. I have a PR-655 plus my eyes for everything else :)

It's quite easy to convert to fL from lux....just mulitply by 0.929.

Thanks again for the formula... can't wait to read your full review after break-in. One last question, because lux is affected by distance, do you place the sensor (not sure if you're using the diffuser or not) directly on the screen when you make your measurement?

Warmest regards
John

D-Nice,

1. Is the screen on the 9G tinted any darker than the 8G?Nope. Looks identical.
2. I assume the answer is yes, but now in a room with lighting when you first turn the 9G on I assume you can't see the screen glow at on when you've turned the power on correct? I can see the screen slightly glow on my 8G when I turn the TV on.After the initial "brighter" power up sequence, no.

3. Not sure you can answer this or not yet but is shadow detail equal or better than non-elite 8Gs given there's no gamma adjustment?

Thanks!It's better due to the slight hump at the lower end of the gamma curve.

I was thinking maaaaybe while Im up there, you know with the set pretty much broken in and all ;);) I could take a little sneak peak :DThis might be possible :)

This might be possible :)

Did I hear party at D-Nice's house.:)

Was your HD-DVD player outputting 1080p/24 or 1080i?I tested 1080i, 1080p/60, and 1080p/24. All worked flawlessly with Pure Cinema Advance.

Thanks D-Nice!

I tested 1080i, 1080p/60, and 1080p/24. All worked flawlessly with Pure Cinema Advance.

Great news, but when I looked through the owner's manual the other day, it said PureCinema Advance wasn't available for 1080p/60, same as the 8Gs. Oh well, I don't plan on sending 1080p/60 from Blu-ray anyways.

Great news, but when I looked through the owner's manual the other day, it said PureCinema Advance wasn't available for 1080p/60, same as the 8Gs. Oh well, I don't plan on sending 1080p/60 from Blu-ray anyways.You'e right. However, I never switched the pure cinema setting while using any of the resolutions. At any rate, I did not see any judder....regardless of refresh rate.

I tested 1080i, 1080p/60, and 1080p/24. All worked flawlessly with Pure Cinema Advance.
Hi D-Nice,

I am waiting for my 6020 to be delivered tomorrow. I have a question for you on
1080p/60 and 1080p/24. When I have my HDMI cable connected directly between
PS3 and 5010, when I click screen size, I get "1080p 32bit User Auto", I have to
scroll through it to get it to "1080p 32 bit User Dot by Dot". So far I have used
your reference settings and still running burn it DVD. I have watched couple of
movies on PS3 (casino royale, spiderman 3 and Cars). Do I have to set something else to get 1080p/60 and 1080p/24?
My screen is typically set to User and Auto and automatically resizes to the best
resolution when I am watching Directv HR-21.

Thanks

This might be possible :)

:):):):)
Seriously though, no pressure.

Good to know and thanks for confirming this for me! Your impressions thus far, especially in regards to black levels, have me extremley anxious to finally see one of these bad boys in action.

Come to think of it I have plans next week w/ the wife to head up to your neck of the woods for a long weekend to see and stay with some old friends.
I was thinking maaaaybe while Im up there, you know with the set pretty much broken in and all ;);) I could take a little sneak peak :D

luvnhateSony, how about making an offer on D-Nice's PDP-6020FD. I can tell you it will be very well broken in and calibrated. D-Nice and I are thinking about auctioning off his 6020 and giving all of the profits to D-Nice's favorite charity.

The profit is calculated from my actual net cost to the actual selling price all profit goes to D-Nice's charity choice.

-Robert

I can't give a complete answer to this question right now as I have not had a chance to fully test everything out. If I only went with what I saw last night, I would have to say probably. However, I have yet to test any SDTV, SD DVD, or HD cable sources.


Isn't the Pioneer Elite 1150 the 8G 720P model? Correct me if I am wrong D-Nice but I recall you saying the 8G 720P models had a minimum luminance level of 0.08 while the 8G 1080P models had a minimum luminance level of 0.04? If this is the case why is everyone so concerned with the differences between the 8G 720P Kuro vs the 9G 1080P Kuro models? D-Nice, I am assuming that you have experience viewing the 8G 1080P Kuro models. What would you call the difference between the minimum luminance level of 0.04 of 8G 1080P vs 0.01 of 9G 1080P?

anyone actually get a 9G model delivered yet?

anyone actually get a 9G model delivered yet?

There are quite a few out there with 6020's. 5020's just started to ship and I am not sure if anyone has recieved their unit yet.

anyone actually get a 9G model delivered yet?

:confused:

luvnhateSony, how about making an offer on D-Nice's PDP-6020FD. I can tell you it will be very well broken in and calibrated. D-Nice and I are thinking about auctioning off his 6020 and giving all of the profits to D-Nice's favorite charity.

The profit is calculated from my actual net cost to the actual selling price all profit goes to D-Nice's charity choice.

-Robert

If I could I would, especially knowing it would go to charity. Aside from that, since the set will be in our living room and not a media room which we dont have, my wife and I comprimised on only going as big as 50" since anything bigger than that would be the center of attention in our modest sized living room. Besides Robert, Ive only experienced Elites, you know we Elite owners cant go with anything but:D

I do have a good friend though that is looking to upgrade to a 60" Kuro pretty soon and if you guys still decide to auction it off Im sure he would love to make D an offer. Heck he'd probably drive up the 90 min to pick it up!

luvnhateSony, how about making an offer on D-Nice's PDP-6020FD. I can tell you it will be very well broken in and calibrated. D-Nice and I are thinking about auctioning off his 6020 and giving all of the profits to D-Nice's favorite charity.

The profit is calculated from my actual net cost to the actual selling price all profit goes to D-Nice's charity choice.

-Robert

How about you give it to me and I will give it to my favorite charity:D

I believe that is an "ouch" to all the 8Gers out there. ;)

Not for 8g owners looking for the technology to move forward! But as I predicted, overall colors on the 8g Elites are probably still better than the 9g non-Elites. I'm not sure how they couldn't be given the Pure mode and multitude of adjustment possibilities that simply don't exist on the 9g non-Elites. ;)

wow Thanks D-nice if the 9g non elite out performed the 8g elite i can only imagen what the 9g elite will do.


I think you need to re-read his posts. Unless I misunderstood, he stated the black levels are superior in the non-Elite 9g to the Elite or non-Elite 8g. He did not say that the color was superior in the 9g non-Elite to the 8g Elite. Color is a major part of picture quality.

It will be safe to predict that the 9g Elite will have both superior color and black levels to the 8g Elites and superior color and gray scale to the 9g non-Elites.

Robert,

BTW, Im going to be up in Southington,Connecticut the weekend of your shootout to visit my wifes family. Do you happen to know about how far you are from that area?

Since Im going to be there for a week and a half my wife said I can get away from my in laws for a day and check it out if its not to long a drive:D

Isn't the Pioneer Elite 1150 the 8G 720P model? Correct me if I am wrong D-Nice but I recall you saying the 8G 720P models had a minimum luminance level of 0.08 while the 8G 1080P models had a minimum luminance level of 0.04?Incorrect nor have I ever said that. I have measured my 1150 @ 0.004fL....same as a 110FD and 150FD.

What would you call the difference between the minimum luminance level of 0.04 of 8G 1080P vs 0.01 of 9G 1080P?You mean 0.004fL vs 0.001fL :) I can easily see the difference with the blides open in the evening and in a pitch black room. I don't know about a mid day senario as I only had yesterday evening to test.

Robert,

BTW, Im going to be up in Southington,Connecticut the weekend of your shootout to visit my wifes family. Do you happen to know about how far you are from that area?

Since Im going to be there for a week and a half my wife said I can get away from my in laws for a day and check it out if its not to long a drive:D

I'm not Robert, but it's approximately 84 miles and change. Courtesy of Google.

Is it my understanding that with the new 5020 kuro's,that there is no service menu availability,and what you get on color temp is whatever the factory programs it to be?

D-Nice, any chance of more 'cheating' tonight? I would like to get your impression of how Planet earth on blu ray looks on the 9G, as that is some great BD reference material.

Is it my understanding that with the new 5020 kuro's,that there is no service menu availability,and what you get on color temp is whatever the factory programs it to be?

no pro-adjust, but I think service menu will still be available. How would the technicians service it otherwise?

I didn't realy need any instrument to discern the difference in black levels. It's quite obvious...especially with all of the lights out. At one point last night, my 1150 was a backlight for the 6020 :)

Me thinks that says it all! ;)

no pro-adjust, but I think service menu will still be available. How would the technicians service it otherwise?

then what is the factory color temp going to be?or close to?

I'm not sure how someone can reach that conclusion given that he has only checked out MOVIE mode.

Personally I find MOVIE mode incredibly dark and, if I had to use it full time, I'd look elsewhere.


Yes, I agree that is why I posted this shortly after my original post.;)

In all honesty, I would love to have total control of those settings
too, just like in my 8G, but as long as Pioneer set them up properly it
shouldn't be a problem.

So far, D-nice hasn't seen anything negative with the hardcoded
settings but keep in mind he only tested Movie mode.


I actually prefer Movie mode on my 8G Pioneer, it seems to be the
most accurate(6500K) to my eyes and what I like. Obviously tastes
vary and I'm sure one of the other modes would be more satisfying
to you. I use User mode for cable tv viewing and Movie mode for
Blu-ray and HD DVD.

Me thinks that says it all! ;)For this year maybe. ;)

Incorrect nor have I ever said that. I have measured my 1150 @ 0.004fL....same as a 110FD and 150FD.

You mean 0.004fL vs 0.001fL :) I can easily see the difference with the blides open in the evening and in a pitch black room. I don't know about a mid day senario as I only had yesterday evening to test.


Sorry about misquoting you D-Nice. I had to do a search and prove to myself I was not going crazy about reading the8G 768p models measuring 0.008fL. Here are some sources.

I measured the black level finally on a PDP-5080HD today. It was 0.008 fL. With 40 fL maximum light output that equals 5000:1 on/off contrast ratio.


Here is another review that measured the 1150HD at 0.007fL.
http://www.avguide.com/the-perfect-vision/82/pioneer.php

Here they measured the 5080HD at 0.008 like UMR
http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index7.html

Same magazine measured the 6010 at 0.004
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1107piokuro6010/index5.html


D-Nice, I know UMR is considered a high end calibrator but the other magazines I am not sure about. Are you using a different method of measuring or is it that the Kuro panels measure different for each individual panel? And to think things were not confusing enough I saw this measurement for the PRO-150FD reviewed by Thomas Norton who aslo did the 6010.

"All of the measurements were taken in the Pure mode, adjusted for the most accurate picture. The Power Save mode was set to Off. Using a window pattern, I measured a peak contrast ratio of 44,160:1 (that’s not a typo) with an astonishing black level of 0.001 foot-lamberts—the minimum sensitivity of our lab-grade Minolta light meter. Even the full-screen white contrast ratio measured 18,220:1 (18.22 ft-L peak white, 0.001 ft-L video black)."
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/508piok150/index4.html


So is it correct to assume that these panels vary individually? Thanks in advance.

Yes, I agree that is why I posted this shortly after my original post.;)




I actually prefer Movie mode on my 8G Pioneer, it seems to be the
most accurate(6500K) to my eyes and what I like. Obviously tastes
vary and I'm sure one of the other modes would be more satisfying
to you. I use User mode for cable tv viewing and Movie mode for
Blu-ray and HD DVD.Have you seen "Pure" mode on a Pioneer Elite PDP? Once viewed, nothing else will do.

There are quite a few out there with 6020's. 5020's just started to ship and I am not sure if anyone has recieved their unit yet.I see, thanks!

Is this just the same as 141FD?

http://www.technologyowl.com/i95731-c134-Pioneer-KRP-600M-Plasma-Display

What is Smooth for on the 8G Elites?
I never see anyone reccomend it for any source?

In layman's terms, it's effective in reducing or eliminating the 'stuttering' effect (judder) you see when a camera pans across a scene in a movie. Some people like it and some don't. Those that don't feel it creates an unnatural look since they're accustomed to seeing this stutter in the movies.

That's what advanced does for 1080p/24Hz movies?

Optivity......I don't think he has an elite.

Have you seen "Pure" mode on a Pioneer Elite PDP? Once viewed, nothing else will do.


Just great guys... I am trying to decide between keeping my 5010 or getting the 5020. Comments like these have me thinking dirty thoughts:eek: Dirty like PRO-111FD :cool:
I swear this place makes me think I need to be committed.

Have you seen "Pure" mode on a Pioneer Elite PDP? Once viewed, nothing else will do.

Unfortunately, no.


......But after looking into my crystal ball the 10G Elite is in my future.:D;)

luvnhateSony, how about making an offer on D-Nice's PDP-6020FD. I can tell you it will be very well broken in and calibrated. D-Nice and I are thinking about auctioning off his 6020 and giving all of the profits to D-Nice's favorite charity.

The profit is calculated from my actual net cost to the actual selling price all profit goes to D-Nice's charity choice.

-Robert

That's a class act folks!

Sorry about misquoting you D-Nice. I had to do a search and prove to myself I was not going crazy about reading the8G 768p models measuring 0.008fL. Here are some sources.




Here is another review that measured the 1150HD at 0.007fL.
http://www.avguide.com/the-perfect-vision/82/pioneer.php

Here they measured the 5080HD at 0.008 like UMR
http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index7.html

Same magazine measured the 6010 at 0.004
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1107piokuro6010/index5.html


D-Nice, I know UMR is considered a high end calibrator but the other magazines I am not sure about. Are you using a different method of measuring or is it that the Kuro panels measure different for each individual panel? And to think things were not confusing enough I saw this measurement for the PRO-150FD reviewed by Thomas Norton who aslo did the 6010.

"All of the measurements were taken in the Pure mode, adjusted for the most accurate picture. The Power Save mode was set to Off. Using a window pattern, I measured a peak contrast ratio of 44,160:1 (that’s not a typo) with an astonishing black level of 0.001 foot-lamberts—the minimum sensitivity of our lab-grade Minolta light meter. Even the full-screen white contrast ratio measured 18,220:1 (18.22 ft-L peak white, 0.001 ft-L video black)."
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/508piok150/index4.html

So is it correct to assume that these panels vary individually? Thanks in advance.

I do think the panels vary. I had two different 110FD panels... the black levels were slightly different. Even within the Elite series themselves its not consistent. On average the Elites have better black levels according to reviews and measurements. Having 1080p also makes the black level drop.

I think the black levels are getting pretty dark that measuring these things accurately is getting tough. 0ftl blacks are here... all be it more of a measuring spiffy big numbers type deal. Must look great either way. Woohoo.

For this year maybe. ;)

Yes, every year will bring about improvements. You stay at the top of the heap for months now, not years.

Sorry about misquoting you D-Nice. I had to do a search and prove to myself I was not going crazy about reading the8G 768p models measuring 0.008fL. Here are some sources.




Here is another review that measured the 1150HD at 0.007fL.
http://www.avguide.com/the-perfect-vision/82/pioneer.php

Here they measured the 5080HD at 0.008 like UMR
http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index7.html

Same magazine measured the 6010 at 0.004
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1107piokuro6010/index5.html


D-Nice, I know UMR is considered a high end calibrator but the other magazines I am not sure about. Are you using a different method of measuring or is it that the Kuro panels measure different for each individual panel? And to think things were not confusing enough I saw this measurement for the PRO-150FD reviewed by Thomas Norton who aslo did the 6010.

"All of the measurements were taken in the Pure mode, adjusted for the most accurate picture. The Power Save mode was set to Off. Using a window pattern, I measured a peak contrast ratio of 44,160:1 (that’s not a typo) with an astonishing black level of 0.001 foot-lamberts—the minimum sensitivity of our lab-grade Minolta light meter. Even the full-screen white contrast ratio measured 18,220:1 (18.22 ft-L peak white, 0.001 ft-L video black)."
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/508piok150/index4.html


So is it correct to assume that these panels vary individually? Thanks in advance.

Is it possible that the panel variance (unless it is calibrator variance...) is related to the production date/time. What I'm wondering is whether the panels might get "blacker" due to improvements in the production run?

Just speculation here--any comments from those in the know?

KDD

I originally posted this in the owner's thread, but since it's a review, it's probably more useful to people who are not yet owners. ;)

Received my 6020 on Tuesday. Everything was in perfect condition. Despite the fact that I only had curbside delivery, the delivery guy from Roadway was kind enough to help me get it inside, let me unpack it and inspect it, then wait for me to put on the mounting brackets and help get it up on the wall. And he wouldn’t even accept a tip! You have to love the good neighbor mentality of people in small towns.

Anyway – on to the TV – it looks phenomenal. There is a noticeable buzzing, but when you’re watching anything w/ sound, you can’t hear it. The buzzing is quieter than a refrigerator on the floor above (despite having acoustic ceiling tile), the air coming out of the A/C vents, the cable box, etc. etc. You have to be looking for it during silent moments to hear it (and pretty obsessive to worry about it, IMO).

The image looks nice and bright to my eyes (although I can’t compare to previous generations). I watched some SD DVD last night and it was as good as or better than I’d hoped for. You won’t mistake it for HD, but it’s more than watchable. I’m looking forward to the D-Nice settings, but I thought colors were quite good out of the box. From my first few days of viewing, I’m of the opinion that all the concern over the “missing” features has been a waste of everybody’s time. Perhaps some who are very picky about their colors will disagree, but I’m more than satisfied with the options available.

The black levels are better than the Sony Trinitron CRT that I had been watching, as it’s set right now. After watching “I am Legend” and “No Country for Old Men” on Blu-Ray, I’m also pleased with how it handles motion. Will Smith racing around in his Cobra looked very smooth.

Keeping in mind that I’ve only seen the TV for 2 days, I’m tremendously satisfied and would highly recommend it. And for those of you who have the willpower to get this TV and watch nothing but a break-in dvd for a week, I’m awed by your restraint.

Is it possible that the panel variance (unless it is calibrator variance...) is related to the production date/time. What I'm wondering is whether the panels might get "blacker" due to improvements in the production run?

Just speculation here--any comments from those in the know?

KDD

I think much of the variation is in the tools being used by those that are doing the measuring. There's also the issue of calibration of these tools. Those two issues can bring about quite a bit of variance.

Sorry about misquoting you D-Nice. I had to do a search and prove to myself I was not going crazy about reading the8G 768p models measuring 0.008fL. Here are some sources.




Here is another review that measured the 1150HD at 0.007fL.
http://www.avguide.com/the-perfect-vision/82/pioneer.php

Here they measured the 5080HD at 0.008 like UMR
http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index7.html

Same magazine measured the 6010 at 0.004
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1107piokuro6010/index5.html


D-Nice, I know UMR is considered a high end calibrator but the other magazines I am not sure about. Are you using a different method of measuring or is it that the Kuro panels measure different for each individual panel? And to think things were not confusing enough I saw this measurement for the PRO-150FD reviewed by Thomas Norton who aslo did the 6010.

"All of the measurements were taken in the Pure mode, adjusted for the most accurate picture. The Power Save mode was set to Off. Using a window pattern, I measured a peak contrast ratio of 44,160:1 (that’s not a typo) with an astonishing black level of 0.001 foot-lamberts—the minimum sensitivity of our lab-grade Minolta light meter. Even the full-screen white contrast ratio measured 18,220:1 (18.22 ft-L peak white, 0.001 ft-L video black)."
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/508piok150/index4.html


So is it correct to assume that these panels vary individually? Thanks in advance.The 5080 is not an Elite. Also, umr has measured some 1150s with the same 0.004fL as mine.

I do not know what meter The Perfect Vision used in their review. You have to remember that light meter sensitivity will vary and you need something that is accurate down to 0.001fL to measure the 8Gs.