I'm curious about this question too. I don't fully understand the
24fps vs 60fps thing. I know an original film source is 24fps and that
a video (Hi-Def video or otherwise, like a video game) can be way
more than that. I'm a bit fuzzy as to what the TV actually DOES
with these signals. I'll be using a PS3 for Blu-Ray and some gaming,
so will I need to change settings on the 151FD or the PS3 depending
on what I'm using it for? Or is the display smart enough to know what
to do, depending on the signal it is receiving? I'll be using HDMI if it
matters.



Hi D-Nice,

I am waiting for my 6020 to be delivered tomorrow. I have a question for you on
1080p/60 and 1080p/24. When I have my HDMI cable connected directly between
PS3 and 5010, when I click screen size, I get "1080p 32bit User Auto", I have to
scroll through it to get it to "1080p 32 bit User Dot by Dot". So far I have used
your reference settings and still running burn it DVD. I have watched couple of
movies on PS3 (casino royale, spiderman 3 and Cars). Do I have to set something else to get 1080p/60 and 1080p/24?
My screen is typically set to User and Auto and automatically resizes to the best
resolution when I am watching Directv HR-21.

Thanks

I'm curious about this question too. I don't fully understand the
24fps vs 60fps thing. I know an original film source is 24fps and that
a video (Hi-Def video or otherwise, like a video game) can be way
more than that. I'm a bit fuzzy as to what the TV actually DOES
with these signals. I'll be using a PS3 for Blu-Ray and some gaming,
so will I need to change settings on the 151FD or the PS3 depending
on what I'm using it for? Or is the display smart enough to know what
to do, depending on the signal it is receiving? I'll be using HDMI if it
matters.

Do a Google search for the term "Telecine". This explains how 24fps film can be viewed on video display device(s), and how the many flavors of video influence the process and the final image quality.

It's interesting reading, but frankly outside the scope of this forum.

A_C

Yes, every year will bring about improvements. You stay at the top of the heap for months now, not years.


Does this mean that when I go to sell my 8g 150 in the spring of 2010 to partake in the luxury of an 11g elite that my decision will all be for not??? Man, how is one ever to be satisfied with a purchase decision...
:):confused::eek::mad::rolleyes::cool::p;):D:o:(

The 5080 is not an Elite. Also, umr has measured some 1150s with the same 0.004fL as mine.

I do not know what meter The Perfect Vision used in their review. You have to remember that light meter sensitivity will vary and you need something that is accurate down to 0.001fL to measure the 8Gs.


I thought the glass was the same between the elites vs non elites? The only thing I see different concerning the panel with the elites vs non elites was the color filter. Does the color filter contribute to the lower fL measurements? Or is something else a factor?

I thought the glass was the same between the elites vs non elites? The only thing I see different concerning the panel with the elites vs non elites was the color filter. Does the color filter contribute to the lower fL measurements? Or is something else a factor?Because the colorfilter it bonded to the glass, technically the glass is different.

If one does not modify the RGB Low SM values on the non-Elites, I can see how a 5080 will end up with a 0.008fL reading ;)

The PRO-1511FD was just listed on Pio's website:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-151FD.Kuro

The PRO-1511FD was just listed on Pio's website:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-151FD.Kuro

Yep, they have all the new models up on the site.

The PRO-1511FD was just listed on Pio's website:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-151FD.Kuro

Not on the Canadian Site as yet.

Pioneer PDP-5020FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/PioneerTVs/ci.PDP-5020FD.Kuro)
Pioneer PDP-6020FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/PioneerTVs/ci.PDP-6020FD.Kuro)
Elite PRO-111FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-111FD.Kuro)
Elite PRO-151FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-151FD.Kuro)

but frankly outside the scope of this forum.no it isn't, you're taking yourself too serious..........

I took some more pictures of the PDP-6020Fd and here they are:

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture034.jpg?t=1213309742


This is what it looks like in a pitch black room with no input. As you can see, its almost impossible to tell that the TV is even on (other than the blue LED):

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture035.jpg?t=1213309813

d-nice:

have you found out how to get in to the sm yet?

Here are some more Pictures of the 6020

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture039.jpg?t=1213310088
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture049.jpg?t=1213310802
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture050.jpg?t=1213310840
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture053.jpg?t=1213311129

Please note: My camera is junk.

I took some more pictures of the PDP-6020Fd and here they are:

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture034.jpg?t=1213309742


This is what it looks like in a pitch black room with no input. As you can see, its almost impossible to tell that the TV is even on (other than the blue LED):

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture035.jpg?t=1213309813

All I could see was the blue LED light, great pics by the way. Any buzzing on your screen or the the normal plasma hum?

All I could see was the blue LED light, great pics by the way. Any buzzing on your screen or the the normal plasma hum?

Yea, I am getting a little bit of buzzing. Its not loud though.
I can't hear it during regular viewing but when surfing the net of my PS3 I can hear it change pitch as the screen changes from dark to bright. Especially when showing an all white screen.
This is the first plasma I have ever had that buzzes like this. My 5080 and my Phillips didn't make a peep.
Is there any way to stop the buzz??
How loud does pioneer consider a defect??

On something like an 9G Kuro Elite would you go with a (God forbid) BB-Mag Audio or would you buy for $1000 less from a dealer who's outside the 250 mile radius?

Thanks.

So...are you happy with your 6020 Chad?

then what is the factory color temp going to be?or close to?

The movie mode will be the closest to D65.

Here are some more:

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture055.jpg?t=1213311214
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture061.jpg?t=1213311591http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture066.jpg?t=1213311674
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture068.jpg?t=1213311770
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture067.jpg?t=1213311934

^^^ Did your TV come with a bundle of Pioneer wood too??? :D

So...are you happy with your 6020 Chad?

So far so good.
I am having a hard time finding the perfect settings that I like. But then again I am no expert at calibration or anything like that.
I think I will be happier when D-nice releases his Reference settings.

^^^ Did your TV come with a bundle of Pioneer wood too??? :D

Yes it is a special robert has going on right now. lol.
Buy a 6020 and get a free bundle of firewood.lol



Disclaimer: This is intended as a joke and in no way obligates Robert to provide firewood with the Pioneer 9th generation PDP-6020FD.

Yes it is a special robert has going on right now. lol.
Buy a 6020 and get a free bundle of firewood.lol

Awesome! Now Im sold :p

Yea, I am getting a little bit of buzzing. Its not loud though.
I can't hear it during regular viewing but when surfing the net of my PS3 I can hear it change pitch as the screen changes from dark to bright. Especially when showing an all white screen.
This is the first plasma I have ever had that buzzes like this. My 5080 and my Phillips didn't make a peep.
Is there any way to stop the buzz??
How loud does pioneer consider a defect??

Loud meaning you can hear it from your setting distance, and it depends on the tech they would send to your home on whether it is to be serviced or not.
By the way the picture of the Hulk on your 6020 is freakin sick, excellent PQ.

Loud meaning you can hear it from your setting distance, and it depends on the tech they would send to your home on whether it is to be serviced or not.
By the way the picture of the Hulk on your 6020 is freakin sick, excellent PQ.

Yea I can hear it from about 9 feet away when surfing the net.
I think the pictures would have been alot better if I would have used a better camera. the camera I have blurrs out unless you hold it completely still. so what may look a little blurry is really the camera.

Some were asking about the new HDMI input Layout
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture066.jpg?t=1213312766


http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture073.jpg?t=1213312877
Voltron says: KURO ROCKS!

On something like an 9G Kuro Elite would you go with a (God forbid) BB-Mag Audio or would you buy for $1000 less from a dealer who's outside the 250 mile radius?

Thanks.

Is this a trick question?

Nope. I'm serious. Those are my two options right now, billybob. Color me an neophyte in the display category.

So far so good.
I am having a hard time finding the perfect settings that I like. But then again I am no expert at calibration or anything like that.
I think I will be happier when D-nice releases his Reference settings.

I'll like to see your panel after you do a DVE Basics BD disc calibration. It would be interesting to see the settings the disc came up with and your observations on pq.

-Robert

Some were asking about the new HDMI input Layout
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture066.jpg?t=1213312766
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture071.jpg?t=1213312842

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture073.jpg?t=1213312877
Voltron says: Get a Pioneer KURO!!

Couldn't have used anyone cooler like Optimus Prime to sell Pioneer. Is it the in thing now flipping the HDMI Ports sideways, alot of manufacturers are doing that now.

I mean this in a good way. I feel like D-Nice is like Tom Hank's character in "Saving Private Ryan" well respected by his peers, but nobody knows much about him. Should we start a separate thread and try to guess what D-Nice's real job is? All jokes aside, it has been great to receive so much info from him and the time he dedicates to this website. Thanks D-Nice.

Nope. I'm serious. Those are my two options right now, billybob. Color me an neophyte in the display category.

Are you asking about buying from an un-authorized dealer?

Hey Chad, did you opt for 'white Glove' delivery? If yes, did you think it was worth the extra $?

Chad, are you using your PS3 to run your break in DVD 24/7 for 150 hrs? I thought I read somewhere that it may harm the PS3 due to overheating...

Chad - That Voltron picture is hilarious!

Maybe I missed it, but do the 9g Elites still have the gloss black bezel or is it now a matte finish?

Hey Chad, did you opt for 'white Glove' delivery? If yes, did you think it was worth the extra $?

I did the white glove because I needed the help attaching the stand because everyone I knew to help was at work when the TV was delivered. I also liked being able to make sure the TV was fully functional before I accepted delivery also. To me it was worth it.

But the free deliver that Robert from **************** offers is almost just as good. If I would have had a friend to come and help attach the stand I would have just got the standard delivery.
And as far as making sure the TV is functional, You can just write "subject to inspection" on the invoice and don't sign it if you don't get to verify functionality. this leaves the Delivery company responsible for damages. And from what I have heard, Getting your replacement if the TV is DOA is really fast. You just basically call and they send it out immediatly.
This is correct right Robert?

billibob, the guys authorized but about 1000 miles away. MagAud has it now but I'd pay a premium. Really, I'd end up spending about $2000 more than a 5020 from one of the forum sponsors. I've never seen an Elite in a home setting. Actually, I;ve never seen a Kuro in a home setting.

Thanks for your help.

Chad - That Voltron picture is hilarious!

The Toys of my youth and my favorite new Toy together in harmony.:D

Chad, are you using your PS3 to run your break in DVD 24/7 for 150 hrs? I thought I read somewhere that it may harm the PS3 due to overheating...

I am using my Toshiba HD-DVD player to run the Break-in DVD.

billibob, the guys authorized but about 1000 miles away. MagAud has it now but I'd pay a premium. Really, I'd end up spending about $2000 more than a 5020 from one of the forum sponsors. I've never seen an Elite in a home setting. Actually, I;ve never seen a Kuro in a home setting.

Thanks for your help.

The forum sponsors are not the only authorized dealers, they are just the one's we prefer. I'm in the same boat. Go to pioneer site and search for authorized dealers. The pricing from the others is an unknown. Apparantly you can also contact Pioneer and request permission to buy from a dealer outside the 250 mile limit.

I am using my Toshiba HD-DVD player to run the Break-in DVD.

Good plan not to stress the PS3. I plan to dust off the PS2 and use that to break in mine. However, that brings up another question. The PS2 has no HDMI connection. Will it make a difference just using the yellow composite video connection to do the break in? I know it is a very poor video connection compared to HDMI so I wonder if the cells would be stressed sufficently:confused:........

Good plan not to stress the PS3. I plan to dust off the PS2 and use that to break in mine. However, that brings up another question. The PS2 has no HDMI connection. Will it make a difference just using the yellow composite video connection to do the break in? I know it is a very poor video connection compared to HDMI so I wonder if the cells would be stressed sufficently:confused:........

Honestly I don't see how it would matter as long as runs the disk but maybe one of the experts can answer that one.
the main goal is to illuminate the pixels and hdmi and component both do that.

Ah. Telecine. THAT was the term I could not remember.
I remember reading about this when the first anamorphic-capable
displays were new. I've forgotten everything I read. Go me.
That aside, how about the other, more-pertinent part of my question?
Do these displays "know" what kind of signal they are being fed?
What about the 8Gs? If you feed it a 16X9 anamorphic signal will it let you set the TV to 4:3? I know you wouldn't want to, I'm just using that as an example.
:)
regardless, I cannot WAIT for my 151.....


Do a Google search for the term "Telecine". This explains how 24fps film can be viewed on video display device(s), and how the many flavors of video influence the process and the final image quality.

It's interesting reading, but frankly outside the scope of this forum.

A_C

I did the white glove because I needed the help attaching the stand because everyone I knew to help was at work when the TV was delivered. I also liked being able to make sure the TV was fully functional before I accepted delivery also. To me it was worth it.

But the free deliver that Robert from **************** offers is almost just as good. If I would have had a friend to come and help attach the stand I would have just got the standard delivery.
And as far as making sure the TV is functional, You can just write "subject to inspection" on the invoice and don't sign it if you don't get to verify functionality. this leaves the Delivery company responsible for damages. And from what I have heard, Getting your replacement if the TV is DOA is really fast. You just basically call and they send it out immediatly.
This is correct right Robert?
So, you don't sign after writing "subject to inspection?" I thought that if you didn't sign, the driver cannot leave the television and will not leave until he has your signature. How does this work exactly?

Ok, got my 5020 today and did a quick set up. My dad said several times he thought it had a better pic than the 5010 I had last week. A couple observations...the Optimum mode has no adjustability, not even color, contrast, etc. It is all automatic. I think the blacks are the deepest in optimum, but detail is lost. For instance, a scene with a black jacket did not show the pin stripes and barely showed the lapel, but when switched to Movie the details showed. I have to agree with D-Nice that Movie seems to be the best mode. On the 5010 I preferred the Optimum mode a little more than on the 5020. With the 5010 I saw a huge difference between Dynamic and Optimum. Don't notice as much difference between the two on the 5020. Not sure that's a good thing as Dynamic is so blown up. Don't have a Blu-Ray as I'm waiting to get one of the new Pioneers next month. I'm sure they will be incredible. Chad's pic of the Hulk was definitely sweet. Tough call for me now between the 5010 and 5020. I'd have to say I do miss the adjustability of the 5010 to dial in the pic, but the blacks are definitely incredible. Therefore based on a couple hours observation without tools/measuring devices...Elite all the way!
I should say I have never owned an Elite and I only owned the 5010 for two weeks and the 5020 for two hours. :)

that is correct. There is no adjustment in Optimum mode because the TV adjusts EVERYTHING including colour temperature depending on the scene analysis. To see what the TV is doing: press and hold "tool" for several seconds and Optimum Performance window will open and you'll see both the analysis and the adjustments done by the TV in real time.

The most accurate setting, as mentioned by me before, is the movie mode.

I should also add... didn't look at a lot of SD channels, but my initial impression is that the 5020 cleans up SD a little better than the 5010.

On the 6020 - how does one eliminate the top Pioneer banner that appears when you change channels? The banner blocks much of the Directv banner. I could not easily find anything in the 200 page manual!

Blueste, are you using the break in DVD on your new 5020?

All I could see was the blue LED light, great pics by the way. Any buzzing on your screen or the the normal plasma hum?

Keep in mind, that after about 30 seconds with no signal, the pixels shut off.

For a more meaningful example, apply a signal, remove it, then within 20 seconds take your photo.

The forum sponsors are not the only authorized dealers, they are just the one's we prefer. I'm in the same boat. Go to pioneer site and search for authorized dealers. The pricing from the others is an unknown. Apparently you can also contact Pioneer and request permission to buy from a dealer outside the 250 mile limit.

I did not know you can request a waiver to purchase Elite from an distant authorized dealer. I do know previous customers are OK for to sell Elite beyond the 200 mile restriction, but special requests are a great idea I had not know about.

Pioneer is a company that listens to it's customers and dealers. A rare company culture that I have always admired.

-Robert

I did the white glove because I needed the help attaching the stand because everyone I knew to help was at work when the TV was delivered. I also liked being able to make sure the TV was fully functional before I accepted delivery also. To me it was worth it.

But the free deliver that Robert from **************** offers is almost just as good. If I would have had a friend to come and help attach the stand I would have just got the standard delivery.
And as far as making sure the TV is functional, You can just write "subject to inspection" on the invoice and don't sign it if you don't get to verify functionality. this leaves the Delivery company responsible for damages. And from what I have heard, Getting your replacement if the TV is DOA is really fast. You just basically call and they send it out immediately.
This is correct right Robert?

Very true with one small change. The only thing I would like to add is you can sign as long as you print above your signature "Subject to Inspection" Technically this should only be done when the carton is damaged and the driver will not wait for you to inspect the contents.

Signing "Subject to Inspection" leaves the carrier responsible for a few days for shipping damage claims. Their is a lot more to this and we are instructing our customer on all procedures and rights.

Glad your panel was delivered defect free.

-Robert

Pioneer is a company that listens to it's customers and dealers.

I would hope they listen to me if I tell them that a MSRP of 1000$ more in Canada than in the US on the 151FD is a little too much even with one more year of warranty :rolleyes::D

How do you like the factory sound system on the 5020? Suppose to be a upgrade over the 8g

Blueste, are you using the break in DVD on your new 5020?

Not yet, but I know I need to, and will. I meant to download it today, but ran out of time. Would do it now, but I need some sleep! I'm fried, after being on here until the middle of the night and debating between the 5010 vs 5020!

I would hope they listen to me if I tell them that a MSRP of 1000$ more in Canada than in the US on the 151FD is a little too much even with one more year of warranty :rolleyes::D

+1000

How do you like the factory sound system on the 5020? Suppose to be a upgrade over the 8g

Haven't hooked it up, yet. Running through surround sound. Will hook it up tomorrow. On paper, they bumped it a little. Chad said he noticed a difference vs. 8g for the better.

+101 avssa and HDCanHD. I never understood why most products costs more in Canada. Hey didn't NAFTA eliminate most of the price discrepancy between US and Canadian prices on goods assembled in USA, CANADA and Mexico and traded between those countries?

Pioneer panels are made in the USA.

-Robert

Anyone know of other Elite dealers in So Cal besides BB. I know I can get a better price than what they are listing for the 151. If you know of any reputable dealers in So Cal please PM me.

Thanks in advance.

+101 avssa and HDCanHD. I never understood why most products costs more in Canada. Hey didn't NAFTA eliminate most of the price discrepancy between US and Canadian prices on goods assembled in USA, CANADA and Mexico and traded between those countries?

Pioneer panels are made in the USA.

-Robert

Hey Robert, any chance you can get a waiver to send some panels to Canada and have the warranties transferred to the care of Pioneer Canada? :D

Or better yet, how about a incorporating a Canadian dealership of your business to compete with all the non-competition up here! 'VE'.ca is available!! :D

luvnhateSony, how about making an offer on D-Nice's PDP-6020FD. I can tell you it will be very well broken in and calibrated. D-Nice and I are thinking about auctioning off his 6020 and giving all of the profits to D-Nice's favorite charity.

The profit is calculated from my actual net cost to the actual selling price all profit goes to D-Nice's charity choice.

-Robert

Robert, I think this is a great idea. I'm surprised there hasn't been any responce to this offer. I would love to get my hands on a set that D-nice has put his magic touch too. Too bad I'm in the middle of nowhere.:rolleyes: But someone has to live here:cool:.
Also, I think this is one of the most anticipated reviews in recent history on AVS. I have the utmost respect for D-nice's evaluation/review of any set regardless of who the manufacturer is. Many kudos to D-nice and to Robert at Value Electronic's for makeing this happen.

To whomever asked a question about power consumption, I'm still running in 150 hour break-in mode, but at least for an 8G 6010 its running about 480 watts. Label rating is 532 watts if I remember right.

Running with "normal" settings is a bit less, I'll post it tomorrow nite when the 150 hours are up and I set it to D-Nice's "Reference" settings. The power consumption will also change according to the picture on the display at that instant and according to different setting affecting the picture contrast and brightness too.

Standby power is 19-20 watts, and is also the same with the Main power switch (lower-left corner) set to "Off" as well.

Very true with one small change. The only thing I would like to add is you can sign as long as you print above your signature "Subject to Inspection" Technically this should only be done when the carton is damaged and the driver will not wait for you to inspect the contents.

Signing "Subject to Inspection" leaves the carrier responsible for a few days for shipping damage claims. Their is a lot more to this and we are instructing our customer on all procedures and rights.

Glad your panel was delivered defect free.

-Robert

Hi Robert,
Thanks for this clarification and it's comforting to know that your guidance is available for accepting delivery of our panels, it's a big deal to me. I live alone and will need assistance with set-up on delivery and plan to sign up for "White Glove"(?) service for delivery of my 151. I truly appreciate the personal attention you have given me so far and look forward to your instructions for delivery when the time comes. -Kerry in R.I.

So which sponsors are authorized Elite dealers? This waiver changes everything ??

thx

bob

[QUOTE= I would love to get my hands on a set that D-nice has put his magic touch too. Too bad I'm in the middle of nowhere.:rolleyes: But someone has to live here:cool:.
.[/QUOTE]

No............., you're in the middle of Heaven :D



bob

I should also add... didn't look at a lot of SD channels, but my initial impression is that the 5020 cleans up SD a little better than the 5010.


I also have the 5010 and am trying to decide between keeping it or getting the 5020. I was able to compare the 6010 and 6020 the other day and did not notice as much difference in the black levels when I set the 6020 to GAME mode. Blueste...Could you do me a favor and put the 5020 in game mode and tell me how you feel the blacks compare in this mode since this is the only mode that all contrast enhancers such as (DRE, Black level, etc.) are OFF. Preferably with the lights out because I am thinking I might have not noticed as much of difference because of the dim light area I was viewing the 6010 and 6020 in. Thanks.

Can the bottom speaker be removed from the 6020?

- Rich

Can the bottom speaker be removed from the 6020?

- Rich
yep..........in my case I never put it on. :)

Anyone else bothered by the greens in chad's pictures (all 3 pix)?

Here are some more Pictures of the 6020

...

Please note: My camera is junk.

Well, compared to my 1150, I caould tell that the colors were more saturated (especially green). However, it wasn't anything I would label as "ewww" or "yuck".

...

Over all, I would put the 6020 over the 8G Elites......minus the greens.

Robert,
What about doing a raffle on the set, on-loan to D-nice? Say a hundred bucks a ticket and the drawing would be held on the last day of your Flat Panel Shootout. Of course you would have to have so many ticket sold to cover costs. Don't know if the powers that be here at AVS would allow you to advertize something like this. But after all, it would be for charity.:cool: Anyways just a suggestion.

I did not know you can request a waiver to purchase Elite from an distant authorized dealer. I do know previous customers are OK for to sell Elite beyond the 200 mile restriction, but special requests are a great idea I had not know about.

Pioneer is a company that listens to it's customers and dealers. A rare company culture that I have always admired.

-Robert

I may have spoken out of place. I thought I read that in a couple of posts because I kinda burnt it into my memory to try when time for me to purchase. Whether I'm right or wrong, the worst that can happen is a "no".

Anyone else bothered by the greens in chad's pictures (all 3 pix)?


Thats the first thing I noticed about the Hulk pic but I was expecting to see that. That is why the only way I would consider going from the 5010 to the 5020 is when I have confirmation we can access the service menu and get the XX20 series close to 6500K.

Pioneer PDP-5020FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/PioneerTVs/ci.PDP-5020FD.Kuro)
Pioneer PDP-6020FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/PioneerTVs/ci.PDP-6020FD.Kuro)
Elite PRO-111FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-111FD.Kuro)
Elite PRO-151FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-151FD.Kuro)


Non of these work. At least right now they don't.

The Hulk movie has a pretty apparent green tinge throughout. I have the HD-DVD and that's the way it looks on any of my TVs.

If you look at the Call of Duty 4 picture below the Hulk picture you can see that the green-ness is no longer really there.

Still, from what D-Nice has mentioned, the greens are over emphasized on the set anyway.

Non of these work. At least right now they don't.

Must be broken links. Pioneer's website works fine.

Go to pioneerelectronics.com -> home entertainment -> plasma tvs -> view all models

Non of these work. At least right now they don't.

You're right.:confused: They were working when I posted them, I guess Pioneer is still in the middle of updating the site. The old models are now replaced by the new ones on the main plasma page (HERE (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors)), the links just don't work yet.

Must be broken links. Pioneer's website works fine.

Go to pioneerelectronics.com -> home entertainment -> plasma tvs -> view all models

What he said:D

Right here:http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/PioneerTVs

How do you like the factory sound system on the 5020? Suppose to be a upgrade over the 8g


The sound from my 6020 is very sad! Not nearlly as good as my
Pani pz58700u. But that is about all i can say the Pani had over it.
Picture wise makes the Pani look embarrassing!!

That's why I am in the mists of putting together a sound system as we speak.
I think a real must with the sound that comes with the 9G.

This is what it looks like in a pitch black room with no input. As you can see, its almost impossible to tell that the TV is even on (other than the blue LED):

Is this really true or is it possible you may be exaggerating a little bit? I'm certain the 9G is improved over the 8G but to this extent? (the pic doesn't real tell much, at least on my LCD screen).

Hey y'all. Check this out!

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/TheDome/DomeCodes?camp=email

If you click the link, you can see where the Pioneer Dome will be touring to. Here's a bit from the e-mail they sent:

From this morning until this Saturday, June 14, the Pioneer Dome is turning out New York City's Digital Downtown technology showcase with so much excitement you’ll definitely want to experience it first hand -- just look for the gigantic Dome.

Follow the sound of the bass and you’ll enter a 360 degree world of electrifying sounds and visuals. Get ready for an eye-catching lineup of Pioneer® system-loaded custom cars and an in-house DJ to rev everything up.

While you’re there, don’t forget to register at one of our Best Seat in the House kiosks for a special game piece to enter into the “Best Seat in the House” Sweepstakes. The prize code on the piece might be worth $500, $25,000, or even $100,000 at participating Pioneer dealers.*

Come for the fun, stay for the cars, and maybe leave with a prize.


Any NYers going to the Digital Downtown show? That's where the dome will be this weekend. Damn, I wish I wasn't so busy right now. If anybody goes, it would be great if you would report on it.

Robert,
What about doing a raffle on the set, on-loan to D-nice? Say a hundred bucks a ticket and the drawing would be held on the last day of your Flat Panel Shootout. Of course you would have to have so many ticket sold to cover costs. Don't know if the powers that be here at AVS would allow you to advertize something like this. But after all, it would be for charity.:cool: Anyways just a suggestion.

I like this suggestion.
Sign me up for a ticket if you decide to go this route.

Anyone else bothered by the greens in chad's pictures (all 3 pix)?

Even though D-Nice stated that the greens were more than the other colors, I'm sure what your seeing is not what D-Nice is talking about.

First, you have theatrical lighting, differences in color settings on the display, white balance between the new HDTV, white balance on the digital camera, differences in your computer monitor. I also see lots of blue that's next to a lot of green, I'm sure it was filmed that way, that is if in fact what I'm seeing on my end came through correctly.

Another words, never judge picture quality from a simple reproduction on your computer screen.

Pictures are fun, and it's great to see everyone's setups...even the images displaying video from the panels. But I never use any of these to decide a video display's qualities.

I asked this earlier but never got an answer, does anyone know the panel half-life on the 9Gs? Thanks. :)

[/SIZE]Originally Posted by MegaByte
Robert,
What about doing a raffle on the set, on-loan to D-nice? Say a hundred bucks a ticket and the drawing would be held on the last day of your Flat Panel Shootout. Of course you would have to have so many ticket sold to cover costs. Don't know if the powers that be here at AVS would allow you to advertize something like this. But after all, it would be for charity. Anyways just a suggestion

I like this suggestion.
Sign me up for a ticket if you decide to go this route.


I think you would get an overwhelming response if you did a $100 raffle!

Great idea!

Count me in!

Is this really true or is it possible you may be exaggerating a little bit? I'm certain the 9G is improved over the 8G but to this extent? (the pic doesn't real tell much, at least on my LCD screen).

With no signal after about 30 seconds, it's true.

I asked this earlier but never got an answer, does anyone know the panel half-life on the 9Gs? Thanks. :)It's not going to be less than last year's 60,000 hours.

It's not going to be less than last year's 60,000 hours.


Do I have this figured correctly?
35 years with 4.5 hours of viewing average per night? Wow! I guess after 35 years, you might want to bump up the contrast a little.

nbb1 you download it off here http://www.eaprogramming.com/

I just ordered a PRO-151FD from Robert (thanks!) and have been reading here about the break-in DVD. Does that come with the TV or is that some third-party disc I should pick up in advance?

I apologize if this was asked already, but I didn't see it.

Hdpeet i think this would be a good sticky

Anyone else think it's time this thread be made a sticky?

are the 9g kuro smart enough to do it automaticaly?

I'm curious about this question too. I don't fully understand the
24fps vs 60fps thing. I know an original film source is 24fps and that
a video (Hi-Def video or otherwise, like a video game) can be way
more than that. I'm a bit fuzzy as to what the TV actually DOES
with these signals. I'll be using a PS3 for Blu-Ray and some gaming,
so will I need to change settings on the 151FD or the PS3 depending
on what I'm using it for? Or is the display smart enough to know what
to do, depending on the signal it is receiving? I'll be using HDMI if it
matters.

Rougebear PLEASE dont tell me your judgement was based on a bestbuy/in store viewing right?:rolleyes:

I also have the 5010 and am trying to decide between keeping it or getting the 5020. I was able to compare the 6010 and 6020 the other day and did not notice as much difference in the black levels when I set the 6020 to GAME mode. Blueste...Could you do me a favor and put the 5020 in game mode and tell me how you feel the blacks compare in this mode since this is the only mode that all contrast enhancers such as (DRE, Black level, etc.) are OFF. Preferably with the lights out because I am thinking I might have not noticed as much of difference because of the dim light area I was viewing the 6010 and 6020 in. Thanks.

I also have the 5010 and am trying to decide between keeping it or getting the 5020. I was able to compare the 6010 and 6020 the other day and did not notice as much difference in the black levels when I set the 6020 to GAME mode. Blueste...Could you do me a favor and put the 5020 in game mode and tell me how you feel the blacks compare in this mode since this is the only mode that all contrast enhancers such as (DRE, Black level, etc.) are OFF. Preferably with the lights out because I am thinking I might have not noticed as much of difference because of the dim light area I was viewing the 6010 and 6020 in. Thanks.

Will do. Give me until this evening. Plus, the room will be a little darker. Need to actually get some work done before I get fired. :)

I've looked a lot of places but still cannot find what the wall mounting pattern of the 50x0 is. I assume the 5020 is the same as the 5010, but for the life of me all I can find is the 6010/6020 dimensions. Can anyone help?

Hey y'all. Check this out!

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/TheDome/DomeCodes?camp=email

If you click the link, you can see where the Pioneer Dome will be touring to. Here's a bit from the e-mail they sent:

From this morning until this Saturday, June 14, the Pioneer Dome is turning out New York City's Digital Downtown technology showcase with so much excitement you’ll definitely want to experience it first hand -- just look for the gigantic Dome.

Follow the sound of the bass and you’ll enter a 360 degree world of electrifying sounds and visuals. Get ready for an eye-catching lineup of Pioneer® system-loaded custom cars and an in-house DJ to rev everything up.

While you’re there, don’t forget to register at one of our Best Seat in the House kiosks for a special game piece to enter into the “Best Seat in the House” Sweepstakes. The prize code on the piece might be worth $500, $25,000, or even $100,000 at participating Pioneer dealers.*

Come for the fun, stay for the cars, and maybe leave with a prize.


Any NYers going to the Digital Downtown show? That's where the dome will be this weekend. Damn, I wish I wasn't so busy right now. If anybody goes, it would be great if you would report on it.

I was there Tuesday night when they were setting it up. The dome was already setup and there was a huge pioneer truck parked next to it.I might stop by today after work. It is located at the World Financial Center, right next to PJ Clarks.

no it isn't, you're taking yourself too serious..........

By all means, be my guest then...

A_C

The Hulk movie has a pretty apparent green tinge throughout. I have the HD-DVD and that's the way it looks on any of my TVs.

If you look at the Call of Duty 4 picture below the Hulk picture you can see that the green-ness is no longer really there.

Still, from what D-Nice has mentioned, the greens are over emphasized on the set anyway.

Hehhe, probably not the best movie to qualitatively analyze greens. My anxiety is somewhat tempered now.

I'll just await additional impressions. But no more Hulk pictures, please! ;)

when are the 9g's out in Canada?

With no signal after about 30 seconds, it's true.

That almost sounds like a form of power save or something if black levels drop after no signal for 30 seconds. However, I typically watch TV with a signal so that doesn't help much ;). I'm anxious to see how much improvement there is this year. Although in store probably won't help much so I'll be looking forward to hearing more insight from D-Nice and other previous 8G owners on how much improvement has been made.

ABOUT THE PIONEER ELITE WARRANTY:

I just got off the phone with a Pioneer. Spoke with a man named David in the Elite plasma division. I'm only reporting to you what he told me. He said that the warranty is void if the Elite is shipped over 250 miles. I asked about a waiver. He said there is no such thing. I asked how they could track that I didn't happen to live in the area and order the plasma before I moved outside of the 250 mile radius. He responded that they can track shipping, everything from the invoice and that it's the dealer’s responsibility to record everything carefully. He continued that if the invoice reveals that the plasma traveled more than 250 miles to reach me then the warranty is void, no if's and's or but's. He closed by telling me that the average Pioneer plasma repair is $1,000.

That's all I got. If I forgot to ask any questions or if any further clarity is needed then please call Pioneer at 1.800.421.1404.

Very true with one small change. The only thing I would like to add is you can sign as long as you print above your signature "Subject to Inspection" Technically this should only be done when the carton is damaged and the driver will not wait for you to inspect the contents.

Signing "Subject to Inspection" leaves the carrier responsible for a few days for shipping damage claims. Their is a lot more to this and we are instructing our customer on all procedures and rights.

Glad your panel was delivered defect free.

-Robert


Robert,

I meant to tell you thanks when I posted about receiving my 6020. I know we had a mix-up on getting tracking info to me, but I can't say enough good things about the freight company you went through (PilotAir). They were very professional. I received a call to set a delivery time even before the 6020 arrived at local shipping hub. They basically got it to me immediately after they received it, and they arrived exactly when they said they would. The driver was very helpful and went out of his way to get the panel right where I wanted it, help me get the box off, and hook it up to make sure it was functioning properly. I offered a tip, and he refused to accept saying that he was just doing the job he was paid to do.

Maybe these are things I should expect, but it seems like customer service has dropped to the point where I am very happy for someone to just do what they say they are going to do.

Anyway, I couldn't be happier with the TV. Thanks!

i think its bs and i dont belive that if you happen to live in x place and you move and your not coverd what happens court claim > usualy pioneer would not show up and if they did the paper has to have some loop hole or you have to have a letter saying that if you the customer bought at x distince it would not cover it. if they simply say " oh i told my dealer or ditubuitor" or i told the customer over the phone.... all that talk is useless it has to be known to the customer in a letter before he/she made a purchase not when the tv took a crap


ABOUT THE PIONEER ELITE WARRANTY:

I just got off the phone with a Pioneer. Spoke with a man named David in the Elite plasma division. I'm only reporting to you what he told me. He said that the warranty is void if the Elite is shipped over 250 miles. I asked about a waiver. He said there is no such thing. I asked how they could track that I didn't happen to live in the area and order the plasma before I moved outside of the 250 mile radius. He responded that they can track shipping, everything from the invoice and that it's the dealer’s responsibility to record all everything carefully. He continued that if the invoice reveals that the plasma traveled more than 250 miles to reach me then the warranty is void, no if's and's or but's. He closed by telling me that the average Pioneer plasma repair is $1,000.

That's all I got. If I forgot to ask any questions or if any further clarity is needed then please call Pioneer at 1.800.421.1404.

By all means, be my guest then...

A_C

I believe he was inferring that you should have gone into detail about your topic instead of calling us dults ;)
As he said, you take yourself to seriously if you think people wouldn't like to learn about it that don't know or discuss if they do.
You know what they say about assumptions.

I just want to watch TV without fear. I don't want to have to worry about hiring a legal team if the plasma breaks.

ABOUT THE PIONEER ELITE WARRANTY:

I just got off the phone with a Pioneer. Spoke with a man named David in the Elite plasma division. I'm only reporting to you what he told me. He said that the warranty is void if the Elite is shipped over 250 miles. I asked about a waiver. He said there is no such thing. I asked how they could track that I didn't happen to live in the area and order the plasma before I moved outside of the 250 mile radius. He responded that they can track shipping, everything from the invoice and that it's the dealer’s responsibility to record everything carefully. He continued that if the invoice reveals that the plasma traveled more than 250 miles to reach me then the warranty is void, no if's and's or but's. He closed by telling me that the average Pioneer plasma repair is $1,000.

That's all I got. If I forgot to ask any questions or if any further clarity is needed then please call Pioneer at 1.800.421.1404.


Obviously I didn't hear the call, but if that's how it went down not only is it a horrible rule(imo) but he seemed cavalier about it.
I will call and ask the same thing to hear the response and how it is presented to a person who has already spent a boat load on a 8g Elite....an existing customer.

ABOUT THE PIONEER ELITE WARRANTY:

I just got off the phone with a Pioneer. Spoke with a man named David in the Elite plasma division. I'm only reporting to you what he told me. He said that the warranty is void if the Elite is shipped over 250 miles. I asked about a waiver. He said there is no such thing. I asked how they could track that I didn't happen to live in the area and order the plasma before I moved outside of the 250 mile radius. He responded that they can track shipping, everything from the invoice and that it's the dealer’s responsibility to record all everything carefully. He continued that if the invoice reveals that the plasma traveled more than 250 miles to reach me then the warranty is void, no if's and's or but's. He closed by telling me that the average Pioneer plasma repair is $1,000.

That's all I got. If I forgot to ask any questions or if any further clarity is needed then please call Pioneer at 1.800.421.1404.

How completely outragious... Are those terms clearly stated in the written Warranty? If not, that guy was talking straight out of his butt...

This is the sort of thing the State Attorneys General can be very helpful with. ;)


A_C

no i understand but what i mean is that pioneer shoulnt bs with its customers, if we pay a preimum and dont void/abuse the product they have to service it without asking for an invoice.

E-A-G-L-E-S, I have no reason to lie or exaggerate.

I believe he was inferring that you should have gone into detail about your topic instead of calling us dults ;)
As he said, you take yourself to seriously if you think people wouldn't like to learn about it that don't know or discuss if they do.
You know what they say about assumptions.

How you could have taken that to mean I was implying anyone here were 'dults' is truly beyond me.

It's been my experience that discussions about Telecine get very lengthy and for a group like this, would be unnecessarily redundant. Quite the opposite of how you seem to have interpreted my remarks.

Sorry if anyone felt slighted, it was not my intention, but you've completely misinterpreted my motives.

A_C

That almost sounds like a form of power save or something if black levels drop after no signal for 30 seconds. However, I typically watch TV with a signal so that doesn't help much ;). I'm anxious to see how much improvement there is this year. Although in store probably won't help much so I'll be looking forward to hearing more insight from D-Nice and other previous 8G owners on how much improvement has been made.It's not a power save function. This is the first step to 0fL blacks regardless of screen content.

You guys really want to be at the forefront of a lawsuit? You'd be willing to spend your time contacting and following up with the AG? If you don't like the news that's fine. I don't like it. I want to buy an Elite from the dealer I want to buy it from but to say the guy doesn't know what he's talking about or to say he's talking out of his butt is wrong unless you have something concrete. Call them. I posted the number. You're welcome to roll the dice but don't discredit good information unless you can back it with better information based on facts rather than opinions.

You guys really want to be at the forefront of a lawsuit? You'd be willing to spend your time contacting and following up with the AG? If you don't like the news that's fine. I don't like it. I want to buy an Elite from the dealer I want to buy it from but to say the guy doesn't know what he's talking about or to say he's talking out of his butt is wrong unless you have something concrete. Call them. I posted the number. You're welcome to roll the dice but don't discredit good information unless you can back it with better information based on facts rather than opinions.I'm personally sick and tired of Pioneer CS telling customers this BS when it has ZERO enforcement capabilites.

Pioneer will not and does not track PDPs per a customer's invoice. They do it per the serial number. As long as that panel was processed thru a authorized distributor, not dealer, the warranty is valid....plain and simple.

Pioneer personel that are watching the thread and forum (I know you are here ;)), stop the BS. Or would you like a nice National News special about how you are attempting to violate consumer warranty rights thru your warranty threats?? :)

I'm personally sick and tired of Pioneer CS telling customers this BS when it has ZERO enforcement capabilites.

Pioneer will not and does not track PDPs per a customer's invoice. They do it per the serial number. As long as that panel was processed thru a authorized distributor, not dealer, the warranty is valid....plain and simple.

Pioneer personel that are watching the thread and forum (I know you are here ;)), stop the BS. Or would you like a nice National News special about how you are attempting to violate consumer warranty rights thru your warranty threats?? :)

Willingly? forget it! They'll wait till they're sued for it, lose miserably and then be forced to have a policy change which will get the usual PR spin of "To better server our customers......."

Willingly? forget it! They'll wait till they're sued for it, lose miserably and then be forced to have a policy change which will get the usual PR spin of "To better server our customers......."Putting it on a National News channel has more of an impact that court case ever will :) The faster you can impact their wallet, the faster change will happen ;)

I'm personally sick and tired of Pioneer CS telling customers this BS when it has ZERO enforcement capabilites.

Pioneer will not and does not track PDPs per a customer's invoice. They do it per the serial number. As long as that panel was processed thru a authorized distributor, not dealer, the warranty is valid....plain and simple.

Pioneer personel that are watching the thread and forum (I know you are here ;)), stop the BS. Or would you like a nice National News special about how you are attempting to violate consumer warranty rights thru your warranty threats?? :)

How does one (us) tell if an authorized *distributor* is used?

thx


bob

D-nice, does one have to have an invoice for warranty repair?

D-Nice,

how long till your full review? Are you doing a full break-in first?

Thanks!

Thank you D-nice yes that's what im trying to point out

I'm personally sick and tired of Pioneer CS telling customers this BS when it has ZERO enforcement capabilites.

Pioneer will not and does not track PDPs per a customer's invoice. They do it per the serial number. As long as that panel was processed thru a authorized distributor, not dealer, the warranty is valid....plain and simple.

Pioneer personel that are watching the thread and forum (I know you are here ;)), stop the BS. Or would you like a nice National News special about how you are attempting to violate consumer warranty rights thru your warranty threats?? :)

yes some kind of receipt or paperwork showing that you purchased the tv

D-nice, does one have to have an invoice for warranty repair?

the full results will be 7 days from the day he posted due to the break in
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/779/plasma-vs-lcd-round-ii.html

which would be 18th

D-Nice,

how long till your full review? Are you doing a full break-in first?

Thanks!

You guys really want to be at the forefront of a lawsuit? You'd be willing to spend your time contacting and following up with the AG? If you don't like the news that's fine. I don't like it. I want to buy an Elite from the dealer I want to buy it from but to say the guy doesn't know what he's talking about or to say he's talking out of his butt is wrong unless you have something concrete. Call them. I posted the number. You're welcome to roll the dice but don't discredit good information unless you can back it with better information based on facts rather than opinions.

Once again, what does the written warranty say about this? If there's no mention of this 250 mile business, of what value is anything this guys says?

A_C

Hey lets boycott Pioneer! That'll hit 'em where it hurts. ;)

I couldn't tell you. I want to buy my first Elite. Anybody got an Elite warranty they can examine? Anybody who bought an Elite from outside of the radius ever get it repaired?

I'm personally sick and tired of Pioneer CS telling customers this BS when it has ZERO enforcement capabilites.

Pioneer will not and does not track PDPs per a customer's invoice. They do it per the serial number. As long as that panel was processed thru a authorized distributor, not dealer, the warranty is valid....plain and simple.

Pioneer personel that are watching the thread and forum (I know you are here ;)), stop the BS. Or would you like a nice National News special about how you are attempting to violate consumer warranty rights thru your warranty threats?? :)

I've not seen territorial sales restrictions enforced against warranties, but I have seen a dealer selling such products outside of their territory lose their right to sell them to anyone, local or at a distance.

Why do firms restrict sales? They're going to be paid their unit costs regardless of outlet. It must be related to protecting their brick and mortar outlets who will try to sell products at the MSRP. The B&Ms do have more overhead than their kitchen table internet counterparts. But the B&Ms usually offer a higher level of service.

I don't mean to take this off-topic (though we are already discussing it--for a second time:cool:), but it would be nice if Pioneer explained their reasoning for establishing this policy for their Elite line (but not their non-Elite products). If they've been watching this thread, they will see a number of posters have said that they will not be able to purchase an Elite model because there is no authorized dealer within the 250 mile radius. It's been a while since I've taken a marketing class, but I thought manufacturers were interested in selling their products.:confused:

ABOUT THE PIONEER ELITE WARRANTY:

I just got off the phone with a Pioneer. Spoke with a man named David in the Elite plasma division. I'm only reporting to you what he told me. He said that the warranty is void if the Elite is shipped over 250 miles. I asked about a waiver. He said there is no such thing. I asked how they could track that I didn't happen to live in the area and order the plasma before I moved outside of the 250 mile radius. He responded that they can track shipping, everything from the invoice and that it's the dealer’s responsibility to record everything carefully. He continued that if the invoice reveals that the plasma traveled more than 250 miles to reach me then the warranty is void, no if's and's or but's. He closed by telling me that the average Pioneer plasma repair is $1,000.

That's all I got. If I forgot to ask any questions or if any further clarity is needed then please call Pioneer at 1.800.421.1404.

Sorry to say, but this is exactly what Pioneer tells me and I have asked more than once. Now I'm not saying that if push comes to shove Pioneer won't cover an Elite product that was purchased from an authorized dealer. BTW, their is no way for Pioneer to track the shipment unless it is shipped from a distributor as they do get summary of all distributor shipments and Pioneer uses the data to properly pay their sales reps in each territory .

-Robert

How does one (us) tell if an authorized *distributor* is used?

thx


bobThat's the key. It's not the consumers problem to backtrack Pioneer's distro channels. It's their problem as they are the ones who are "suppose" to only take alloment orders from "authorized" distributors.

I would love for them to explain how an unarthorized distributor can purchase product from their own hub.

Some were asking about the new HDMI input Layout
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture066.jpg?t=1213312766
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture071.jpg?t=1213312842

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture073.jpg?t=1213312877
Voltron says: KURO ROCKS!
LOL +1 for Voltron Kuro Plug!

D-nice, does one have to have an invoice for warranty repair?

Yes and every manufacturer requires a valid receipt for warranty service.

-Robert

I've not seen territorial sales restrictions enforced against warranties, but I have seen a dealer selling such products outside of their territory lose their right to sell them to anyone, local or at a distance. That's my point. It's not the consumers problem. The problem belongs to Pioneer and their authorized distributors and dealers.

Robert,

I meant to tell you thanks when I posted about receiving my 6020. I know we had a mix-up on getting tracking info to me, but I can't say enough good things about the freight company you went through (PilotAir). They were very professional. I received a call to set a delivery time even before the 6020 arrived at local shipping hub. They basically got it to me immediately after they received it, and they arrived exactly when they said they would. The driver was very helpful and went out of his way to get the panel right where I wanted it, help me get the box off, and hook it up to make sure it was functioning properly. I offered a tip, and he refused to accept saying that he was just doing the job he was paid to do.

Maybe these are things I should expect, but it seems like customer service has dropped to the point where I am very happy for someone to just do what they say they are going to do.

Anyway, I couldn't be happier with the TV. Thanks!

VIP service for a VIP customer.

-Robert

GO COLTS!

I'm personally sick and tired of Pioneer CS telling customers this BS when it has ZERO enforcement capabilites.

Pioneer will not and does not track PDPs per a customer's invoice. They do it per the serial number. As long as that panel was processed thru a authorized distributor, not dealer, the warranty is valid....plain and simple.

Pioneer personel that are watching the thread and forum (I know you are here ;)), stop the BS. Or would you like a nice National News special about how you are attempting to violate consumer warranty rights thru your warranty threats?? :)

Well and if you can find anything about 250 mile radious here below, please let us know. Maybe we should send this to that rep that was on the phone :D

Here it is again http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/29529538HEelite.pdf

I would guess this is an internal policy that is not strictly enforced. But I tell you for sure Pioneer has told me this on several occasions. It is not written into any consumer notices that I know of, but is clearly written in every Elite dealer contract.

-Robert

I understand it is written but the question from the poster was what the rep on the phone told him and you and I know its BS.

I would guess this is an internal policy that is not strictly enforced. But I tell you for sure Pioneer has told me this on several occasions. It is not written into any consumer notices that I know of, but is clearly written in every Elite dealer contract.

-RobertYou are correct. It just pisses me off when they tell this stuff to the consumer. These terms can only be enforced per a contract presented before the purchase. It cannot be enforced thru a warranty that the consumer normally has access to only after they have purchased the product.

D-nice this is exactly what i said

i think its bs and i dont belive that if you happen to live in x place and you move and your not coverd what happens court claim > usualy pioneer would not show up and if they did the paper has to have some loop hole or you have to have a letter saying that if you the customer bought at x distince it would not cover it. if they simply say " oh i told my dealer or ditubuitor" or i told the customer over the phone.... all that talk is useless it has to be known to the customer in a letter before he/she made a purchase not when the tv took a crap


You are correct. It just pisses me off when they tell this stuff to the consumer. These terms can only be enforced per a contract presented before the purchase. It cannot be enforced thru a warranty that the consumer normally has access to only after they have purchased the product.

D-Nice, thanks for the settings. IMO, the value proposition then is this for people like me for whom 2008 dollars are increasingly significant -
% improvement of Elite over 5020 vs. % price increase plus factoring in time (at an hourly billable rate) invested fighting Pioneer (if they choose to fight) if the Elite plasma breaks. Not including attrition to health worrying about the whole damn mess created if it breaks.

Not an exact scientific formula but you see what I mean.

Never seen it get to the point that you would have to fight Pioneer.

Hi,

I am in the process of looking for a new TV and I could make my purchase in the next few days.

I am very interested into the PRO-151FD model and I was under the impression that this model is supposed to be available this month.

The salesperson I spoke to, told me that he was not expecting them to become available before next fall. Therefore, I should buy the PRO-150FD.

I have read several pages of this thread without seeing any update about the Kuro Elite 60" 9G release date.

Does someone could help me?

Thank you,

Rumor has it that some dealers might see them this month, very small amounts. The rest July/Aug

The salesman is lying to you. Check with forum sponsors through the banners above or the textlinks below.

I would guess this is an internal policy that is not strictly enforced. But I tell you for sure Pioneer has told me this on several occasions. It is not written into any consumer notices that I know of, but is clearly written in every Elite dealer contract.

-Robert

Pioneer can and apparently does put pressure on dealers to stay within the 250 mile restriction with the threat of having the "authorized dealer" label stripped from them. But, as Roman points out, no such terms are in the end-user warranty and "internal policies" are not enforceable in a court of law. This is especially the case when actual warranty language expressly covers all subsequent owners as long as the set, at some point in time, was purchased through an authorized distributor or dealer. (The logical conclusion from this, unless the set was initially stolen directly from Pioneer, is that every set is covered since Pioneer can hardly argue that they sold sets to distributors who were not authorized or, for that matter, that they themselves are not authorized distributors - though there might be some issues as to the point when warranty coverage period begins.)

For those worried about fighting warranty coverage in court, it is unlikely that Pioneer will push the issue on a set legitimately purchased from an honest retailer (see stolen set remark above). Even if they do, a little help from your retailer, authorized or not, (assuming they are conscientious in keeping records) will establish warranty coverage.

more likely the salesman is lieing but sometimes certain shops dont get those units, try buying from forum sponsers or check out another store

btw im sorry guys that i pushed some rant about the warranty but i feel pioneer gotta read this and hopefully understand why they never

1) have enough or more elite sales

2)be aware that we are in the know and deserve service for a high end tv that cost a pretty penny

I couldn't tell you. I want to buy my first Elite. Anybody got an Elite warranty they can examine? Anybody who bought an Elite from outside of the radius ever get it repaired?


I have never had need for a repair yet on my pro150 but i did purchase the unit outside of the supposedly 250 mile radius area and the seller(6th ave.) never mentioned any type of warranty limitations when the transaction was done.

I too was concerned about said warranty coverage and called 6th ave. and asked and their response was if ever any warranty problems arose with my pro150 they would honor warranty with no questions asked,period...;) Works for me:D

You guys really want to be at the forefront of a lawsuit? You'd be willing to spend your time contacting and following up with the AG? If you don't like the news that's fine. I don't like it. I want to buy an Elite from the dealer I want to buy it from but to say the guy doesn't know what he's talking about or to say he's talking out of his butt is wrong unless you have something concrete. Call them. I posted the number. You're welcome to roll the dice but don't discredit good information unless you can back it with better information based on facts rather than opinions.

A lawsuit need occur only if Pioneer actually denied coverage, regardless of their posturing to control distribution of their product. ;) As Roman said, he's never heard of Pioneer denying coverage and no one on this forum, to my knowledge, has ever reported Pioneer denying coverage for not having purchased from a non-authorized dealer.

It's not a power save function. This is the first step to 0fL blacks regardless of screen content.

So does this action take place when there's actual contect on the screen? Is the 9G that close to 0fL? I know the numbers but to an unlearned one the numbers don't paint the same picture in my mind as an expert such as yourself. Thanks!

Thanks all. I guess I'm clear then that the consumer has no risk and the dealer is at risk, right?

I have never had need for a repair yet on my pro150 but i did purchase the unit outside of the supposedly 250 mile radius area and the seller never mentioned any type of warranty limitations when the transaction was done.

I too was concerned about said warranty coverage and called and asked and their response was if ever any warranty problems arose with my pro150 they would honor warranty with no questions asked,period...;) Works for me:D

I would bet if you called Pioneer and said you had a problem the local center would come out and try to fix your unit for sure :)

So does this action take place when there's actual contect on the screen? Is the 9G that close to 0fL?No. However, the blacks with full screen content is MUCH better than the 8Gs. Glow from the black bars on 2.35:1 type movies are non-existent (except low APL scenes).

As far as the word "authorized" in Pioneer's eyes, they do this to help alleviate stores that abuse their pricing structure and unfair selling tactics. We all know that their are stores out there that do this. It does not represent value, expertise, and knowledge of their products.

Chris

Do I have this figured correctly?
35 years with 4.5 hours of viewing average per night? Wow! I guess after 35 years, you might want to bump up the contrast a little.I won't last that long. :rolleyes:

wasn't somone supposidly getting a 151 today?

No. However, the blacks with full screen content is MUCH better than the 8Gs. Glow from the black bars on 2.35:1 type movies are non-existent (except low APL scenes).

I am definetly intrigued :).

so, regarding the monitor series due out later this fall...

i have come to understand that it is not simply an elite model with the tuner/speaker/stand removed.

it is in fact a thinner display than the elite series, with greater contrast and more display customization.

i haven't seen a price yet but it sounds like it will probably cost a bit more than the elite series.

so my question is, a few hundred dollard aside, for those of us with reciever/speakers, why would you ever buy the elite?

D-Nice, thanks for the settings. IMO, the value proposition then is this for people like me for whom 2008 dollars are increasingly significant -
% improvement of Elite over 5020 vs. % price increase plus factoring in time (at an hourly billable rate) invested fighting Pioneer (if they choose to fight) if the Elite plasma breaks. Not including attrition to health worrying about the whole damn mess created if it breaks.

Not an exact scientific formula but you see what I mean.You seem to be the guy Pioneer is targeting. :eek:

Pioneer can and apparently does put pressure on dealers to stay within the 250 mile restriction with the threat of having the "authorized dealer" label stripped from them. But, as Roman points out, no such terms are in the end-user warranty and "internal policies" are not enforceable in a court of law. This is especially the case when actual warranty language expressly covers all subsequent owners as long as the set, at some point in time, was purchased through an authorized distributor or dealer. (The logical conclusion from this, unless the set was initially stolen directly from Pioneer, is that every set is covered since Pioneer can hardly argue that they sold sets to distributors who were not authorized or, for that matter, that they themselves are not authorized distributors - though there might be some issues as to the point when warranty coverage period begins.)

For those worried about fighting warranty coverage in court, it is unlikely that Pioneer will push the issue on a set legitimately purchased from an honest retailer (see stolen set remark above). Even if they do, a little help from your retailer, authorized or not, (assuming they are conscientious in keeping records) will establish warranty coverage.

So let me put this out there...
Why doesn't Robert or the other sponsors simply sell them to a middle-middle man (say a man in the back alley- that is right before it hops on the shipping truck) for $1 extra. Then that new middle-middle man will officially do the shipping with all transfer of paperwork. Sounds like a win for everyone and much more business for the sponsors. Anyone live close to a sponsor want to become a middle-middle man? :D

it is in fact a thinner display than the elite series,Yes

with greater contrastNo

and more display customization.Yes

i haven't seen a price yet but it sounds like it will probably cost a bit more than the elite series.Nope

so my question is, a few hundred dollard aside, for those of us with reciever/speakers, why would you ever buy the elite?So that one can move it into a bedroom when it gets replaced in the future :)

I would bet if you called Pioneer and said you had a problem the local center would come out and try to fix your unit for sure :)

The only waranty I have on my 4270 is the 1 year from Pioneer .They fixed my set 14 months past the purchase date. It was 1 phone call and I faxed the proof of purcahse and service history . They replied the next day and approved the the service :) I have posted these results on a couple of other threads.

D-Nice;

Thanks for the info. Will you be posting for your 6020 review some material that shows the black level difference between your 1150 and the 6020 when watching a movie? When I saw the 6020 and the 6010 in my local Magnolia store with 300 on Bluray I could not see a large difference, in fact the biggest difference was that the brown hues were more subdued in the 6020. When I posted the information here the feedback was that it was an effect of the viewing conditions, but to be honest although the room was not pitch black it was dark and the TVs were set to Movie mode (which I do understand has changed). I hope your report will put all this into perspective.

So let me put this out there...
Why doesn't Robert or the other sponsors simply sell them to a middle-middle man (say a man in the back alley- that is right before it hops on the shipping truck) for $1 extra. Then that new middle-middle man will officially do the shipping with all transfer of paperwork. Sounds like a win for everyone and much more business for the sponsors. Anyone live close to a sponsor want to become a middle-middle man? :D

It's a win for us, but the sponsor stands to loose the Pioneer dealership. It's not worth it to them to take that chance. If Pioneer seen TV after TV going to one person, they would know something was amiss. I would really like to find a way around it as I doubt that we can find similar pricing from other dealers (haven't even checked). It is not worth putting these sponsors in jeopardy, they are doing all they can and then some.

Back to this 250 mi warranty policy on the Elites.
How would an average consumer who is not on this forum even know about this rule?

And even if you do know about this rule is it my responsibility to measure exactly how many miles I am from an authorized dealer? If I happen to be 251 miles away I get no warranty?

I really cant understand Pioneers logic on this. Why would they care and how does 250 miles make a difference on whether you get a warranty or not? They still get your money and usually the warranty cost is built into the price of the TV.

Back to this 250 mi warranty policy on the Elites.
How would an average consumer who is not on this forum even know about this rule?

And even if you do know about this rule is it my responsibility to measure exactly how many miles I am from an authorized dealer? If I happen to be 251 miles away I get no warranty?

I really cant understand Pioneers logic on this. Why would they care and how does 250 miles make a difference on whether you get a warranty or not? They still get your money and usually the warranty cost is built into the price of the TV.

My guess is that the policy is not in the warranty, it is with the contract with the dealer. This puts the burden of following the 250 mile restriction on the dealer. He either follows the agreed on policy or stands to lose his authorization.

We need to inundate Pioneer with our concern over this issue. They should allow AVS members to support our forum supporters. Maybe AVS has enough buying power amongst it's members to get a waiver for any purchase made through the forum to our forum sponsors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bouhhan
it is in fact a thinner display than the elite series,

Yes


Quote:
with greater contrast

No

Quote:
and more display customization.

Yes

Quote:
i haven't seen a price yet but it sounds like it will probably cost a bit more than the elite series.

Nope

Quote:
so my question is, a few hundred dollard aside, for those of us with reciever/speakers, why would you ever buy the elite?

So that one can move it into a bedroom when it gets replaced in the future :)

thanks for the response. :)

actually, i was speaking with one of the forum reps here (i don't want to call anyone out, but if they are reading this they know who they are and can speak up if they want to) and they sounded pretty sure that the contract is in fact much greater on the monitor series. they gave me exact numbers - i can't remember them now.

they also described the customization in detail and called it a 'customizers dream'.

they were also pretty sure that it will be more expensive than the elite series - are you saying you think it will be less?

i'm basically looking to decide between the elite and monitor series. i have a reciever and speakers. i guess i need to see the final price difference.

thanks in advance for any info.

I'm personally sick and tired of Pioneer CS telling customers this BS when it has ZERO enforcement capabilites.

Pioneer will not and does not track PDPs per a customer's invoice. They do it per the serial number. As long as that panel was processed thru a authorized distributor, not dealer, the warranty is valid....plain and simple.

Pioneer personel that are watching the thread and forum (I know you are here ;)), stop the BS. Or would you like a nice National News special about how you are attempting to violate consumer warranty rights thru your warranty threats?? :)

AMEN!
Maybe we should all pick a day to call pioneer customer service and ask them why they are threatening to void a legal warranty.
Then we could all call the proper legal departments to report this.
With enough complaints something should be done about it.
I think it is total BS that we as valuable customers are forced to worry about Pioneer honoring a legal warranty when deciding who to buy our TV from.

thanks for the response. :)

actually, i was speaking with one of the forum reps here (i don't want to call anyone out, but if they are reading this they know who they are and can speak up if they want to) and they sounded pretty sure that the contract is in fact much greater on the monitor series. they gave me exact numbers - i can't remember them now.

they also described the customization in detail and called it a 'customizers dream'.

they were also pretty sure that it will be more expensive than the elite series - are you saying you think it will be less?

i'm basically looking to decide between the elite and monitor series. i have a reciever and speakers. i guess i need to see the final price difference.

thanks in advance for any info.You mean the 100,000:1 contrast ratio? Thats the same as the current 9G models.

Good Problem: Talked to my local dealer today (Tweeter). It seems the expected delivery date for my PRO 151FD has been moved UP from June 24th to June 20th (next Friday).

Bad Problem: Most of the rest of the gear for my HT setup isn't even scheduled for release until mid to late August. And...with the way dates have a way of slipping, it could be even later.

Dilemma: In spite of no pre/pro or AVR...in spite of no BD player...etc., wife is anxious for her new TV (I'm in it mainly for a new audio system). However, she doesn't care or know about better networking/ integration options available on the Signature series...she's just tired of waiting.

What Would You Do?
A) Risk sleeping on the couch for a couple of months and tell Tweeter to hold off delivery of the 151FD, and then wait to see what shakes out with the 141FD Signature? (BTW, they don't even have these in their system...don't know about pricing...and aren't sure if I'd get the same early-bird Memorial day discount I got for the 151FD.)

-OR-

B) Tell Tweeter to bring it on and use the 151FD's built in audio and speakers for a couple of months and risk huge feelings of envy when I read about new 141FD owner's experiences? (Of course, the "physical comforts" of not having to sleep on the couch during this period should be factored in as well.)

Your input would be greatly appreciated! :D

they sounded pretty sure that the contract is in fact much greater on the monitor series.


It's going to be the same as any other G9 series. I say this with confidence based on everything I've read in this whole thread and others.

You mean the 100,000:1 contrast ratio? Thats the same as the current 9G models.

no, they said it was greater.

Authorized dealers here on the forum and some B&M stores have a better price than the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa, CA.
I asked the saleswoman there if they would match the price the AD were charging me and when I told how much they quoted me the 151 she laughed and said I was for sure wrong quoting the 6020. I said, I was positive about the lower than MSRP price for the 151. She said no way. She said she would have some room to play but definitely not as much as I quoted for.

So, I am surprise why the Pioneer store does not match the discount Authorized dealers are asking. very strange to me.

B) Tell Tweeter to bring it on and use the 151FD's built in audio and speakers for a couple of months and risk huge feelings of envy when I read about new 141FD owner's experiences?The only risk involved with this option is your imagination. ;)

no, they said it was greater.Well, unfortunately the contrast ratio will NOT be different than the regular Elites and/or non-Elites.

Feel free to get both and compare them in your own home.

Authorized dealers here on the forum and some B&M stores have a better price than the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa, CA.
I asked the saleswoman there if they would match the price the AD were charging me and when I told how much they quoted me the 151 she laughed and said I was for sure wrong quoting the 6020. I said, I was positive about the lower than MSRP price for the 151. She said no way. She said she would have some room to play but definitely not as much as I quoted for.

So, I am surprise why the Pioneer store does not match the discount Authorized dealers are asking. very strange to me.

Perfect example on why they try to restrict sales as much as possible out of area :)

wasn't somone supposidly getting a 151 today?

I read something a few days ago to the order of someone said IF you ordered a certain model on a certain day, from a certain place that had a warehouse with ALL the new models, that the shipping would arrive today.

So yes, if all this information was correct, AND if someone put in a order for the 151FD, that day, they would have received it today or they are still waiting for the truck to arrive today.

I also remember reading that someone stated that the new models were at a certain warehouse but had a "official" release date of later this month. Then there was some going back and forth if it was a mistake or not.

All of this was surprising to read since everything else I've read had a very early release date of mid to late June. It's almost mid June now, however the later June release sounded more likely.

For example, there's a couple people in this thread who said they received a call from their store saying that their 151FD will be arriving soon (later this month) and was given a certain delivery date.

In my case, I received a call saying that (making a long story short) my 151FD will arrive between the 24th and 30th of this month.

Now if someone DOES receive a 151FD today, maybe we should get D-Nice to start a new 9G Elite owners thread.

Perfect example on why they try to restrict sales as much as possible out of area :)

Seems like, even my local San Diego B&M offer a better price. Pioneer does strange things with the restrictions on their policy. For a company that is on the red, seems like they do not want to do business.

Go figure.

Authorized dealers here on the forum and some B&M stores have a better price than the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa, CA.
I asked the saleswoman there if they would match the price the AD were charging me and when I told how much they quoted me the 151 she laughed and said I was for sure wrong quoting the 6020. I said, I was positive about the lower than MSRP price for the 151. She said no way. She said she would have some room to play but definitely not as much as I quoted for.

So, I am surprise why the Pioneer store does not match the discount Authorized dealers are asking. very strange to me.

Because they have more overhead? And or want to make a profit?

no, they said it was greater.

They must be confusing it with next year's model.

Because they have more overhead?

Could be, they have an amazing large store in a really expensive area of the South Coast Plaza shopping Center. One of the best in SoCal and most expensive places.

But hey, a sale is a sale. I am not asking for much, just for them to sell at the same price their dealers are selling.

Could be, they have an amazing large store in a really expensive area of the South Coast Plaza shopping Center. One of the best in SoCal and most expensive places.

But hey, a sale is a sale. I am not asking for much, just for them to sell at the same price their dealers are selling.

You got to remember that most of those sale people are on commision as well, so that will affect there judgement on what they sell it at.

Authorized dealers here on the forum and some B&M stores have a better price than the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa, CA.
I asked the saleswoman there if they would match the price the AD were charging me and when I told how much they quoted me the 151 she laughed and said I was for sure wrong quoting the 6020. I said, I was positive about the lower than MSRP price for the 151. She said no way. She said she would have some room to play but definitely not as much as I quoted for.

So, I am surprise why the Pioneer store does not match the discount Authorized dealers are asking. very strange to me.

The costs associated with having a B&M, such as the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa, far surpass the costs of an online dealer. My of these discount Authorized dealers can cut vast amounts of overhead by drop-shipping and having next to nothing in flooring costs.

So, I am surprise why the Pioneer store does not match the discount Authorized dealers are asking. very strange to me.

Not strange at all. Pioneer is simply protecting their dealers. If you were an authorized Pioneer dealer, what would you think of being undercut by the Mothership?

A_C

tell Tweeter to hold off delivery of the 151FD, and then wait to see what shakes out with the 141FD Signature?


You have everything you need with the 151FD. Unless you REALLY need and or want a screen that's thinner just get the 151FD.

The only thing that's going to shake loose with the 141FD, are a bunch of IP features that will never get used. And according to a well known ISF person on these threads, the calibration you get via on line, won't be the same as having a ISF tech right there for the best possible calibration.

Also, getting the 151FD earlier, will allow more time for you to "break-in" your set, get it calibrated, and all this before your really ready to use it.

The costs associated with having a B&M, such as the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa, far surpass the costs of an online dealer. My of these discount Authorized dealers can cut vast amounts of overhead by drop-shipping and having next to nothing in flooring costs.

Not strange at all. Pioneer is simply protecting their dealers. If you were an authorized Pioneer dealer, what would you think of being undercut by the Mothership?

A_C


Good points,

But like I said, if I am willing to buy and I know the price the AD are asking, there is no reason for them to not make a sale. People on this forum are the large minority of well informed consumers. Is not like Pioneer will be losing money.

Hi Folks,
Am curious. Could someone PM me ballpark price of Elite 50"? I am in Greenville, SC area. I know I might have to rely on Tweeter because I am probably out of 250 miles radius from every forum sponsor. I know Tweeter price. Just want to know if I were in NY/NJ area, how much would I have to pay for an Elite?

You got to remember that most of those sale people are on commision as well, so that will affect there judgement on what they sell it at.

Not only that, if there is no profit for the store, and/or nothing to gain for the sales person, it's a waist of their time. The salesperson and store's time is valuable.

When I got home last night and started to surf the Net on my PS3 I noticed that the Buzzing on my 6020 has increased some.
I decided to see how far away I could hear it.
I was able to hear it from 16 feet away. Which is as far away from it I could get in my small living room area. When the screen changes from dark to bright is when I can hear the pitch change from not so bad to worse. Total white screen is the worse.
Maybe the room acoustics are playing a part, but my 5080 I had never buzzed anywhere near this loud. I could hear the 5080 if I stuck my head behind the TV and really listened but I can hear this one in front of the TV.
It seems to get louder when you sit down at ear level with the TV directly in front(which is where I watch TV from obviously.
I am debating whether or not to call pioneer. I probably will. Hearing if from 16 feet away can't be normal.
Is there anything that I cna do to reduce this? Doe the buzz get softer as the TV breaks-in?

What would you guys do, would you call pioneer?

Thanks,
Chad

I agree....go with the known as opposed to the unknown....take the good deal on the 151 and enjoy.

Good points,

But like I said, if I am willing to buy and I know the price the AD are asking, there is no reason for them to not make a sale. People on this forum are the large minority of well informed consumers. Is not like Pioneer will be losing money.

They are loosing money if they sell it pretty much for what they bought it for. It's not worth their time, and you are waisting their time.

When I got home last night and started to surf the Net on my PS3 I noticed that the Buzzing on my 6020 has increased some.
I decided to see how far away I could hear it.
I was able to hear it from 16 feet away. Which is as far away from it I could get in my small living room area. When the screen changes from dark to bright is when I can hear the pitch change from not so bad to worse. Total white screen is the worse.
Maybe the room acoustics are playing a part, but my 5080 I had never buzzed anywhere near this loud. I could hear the 5080 if I stuck my head behind the TV and really listened but I can hear this one in front of the TV.
It seems to get louder when you sit down at ear level with the TV directly in front(which is where I watch TV from obviously.
I am debating whether or not to call pioneer. I probably will. Hearing if from 16 feet away can't be normal.
Is there anything that I cna do to reduce this? Doe the buzz get softer as the TV breaks-in?

What would you guys do, would you call pioneer?

Thanks,
Chad

Call them.

You have everything you need with the 151FD. Unless you REALLY need and or want a screen that's thinner just get the 151FD.

The only thing that's going to shake loose with the 141FD, are a bunch of IP features that will never get used. And according to a well known ISF person on these threads, the calibration you get via on line, won't be the same as having a ISF tech right there for the best possible calibration.

Also, getting the 151FD earlier, will allow more time for you to "break-in" your set, get it calibrated, and all this before your really ready to use it.
Ahhh...clarity raises her voice above the cacophony of human angst!

Thanks. You're probably right...all the fancy IP addressability may, in fact, go unused. Add to that, the benefits that marital harmony can bring and we have a powerful argument for taking delivery of the 151FD.:p

Not only that, if there is no profit for the store, and/or nothing to gain for the sales person, it's a waist of their time. The salesperson and store's time is valuable.

Correct, if the salesman feels like there is no point in trying to deal they will just move onto the next customer who is willing to pay close to if not full price.

Is there anything that I cna do to reduce this? Doe the buzz get softer as the TV breaks-in?

What would you guys do, would you call pioneer?

Thanks,
Chad

Do you have any throw rugs you can put down? I would also try to put stuff on the walls...it would also help to improve your audio. Do you have lots of tile or do you have carpet?

Hi Folks,
Am curious. Could someone PM me ballpark price of Elite 50"? I am in Greenville, SC area. I know I might have to rely on Tweeter because I am probably out of 250 miles radius from every forum sponsor. I know Tweeter price. Just want to know if I were in NY/NJ area, how much would I have to pay for an Elite?

Only MSRP is allowed but again I thought we made a point about the 250 mile radios already (hundreds of times :), just call around and its simple as that.

Call them.

I would wait after it is broken in.

Back to this 250 mi warranty policy on the Elites.
How would an average consumer who is not on this forum even know about this rule?

And even if you do know about this rule is it my responsibility to measure exactly how many miles I am from an authorized dealer? If I happen to be 251 miles away I get no warranty?

I really cant understand Pioneers logic on this. Why would they care and how does 250 miles make a difference on whether you get a warranty or not? They still get your money and usually the warranty cost is built into the price of the TV.

The average consumer who is not on this forum should not be able to find an online price for an Elite if all the authorized dealers were abiding by their contracts. Hence, they would only see them at their local or surrounding B&M store.

Secondly, if you are picking the unit up then you would be within 250 miles of the store. Or driving more than 250 miles from your location this rule would not apply as you would be picking it up in person.

Pioneer's logic is to protect the integrity of the Elite line and maintain its "elite" status. I hope I am not the first to inform you on this but Pioneer is in the business to make money. By keeping the margins "healthy" on the Elite lines it allows them to continue to produce these awesome screens that everyone loves.

Also, this protects a store who pays the flooring cost on Elite models. If online sales were permitted, you could go into your local store, take the sales persons time and expertise, and then just go buy the unit from on online dealer. This makes no sense.

Upon approval from Pioneer I will be posting the section of their dealer contract the state the territory rules regarding Elite sales.

Ahhh...clarity raises her voice above the cacophony of human angst!

Thanks. You're probably right...all the fancy IP addressability may, in fact, go unused. Add to that, the benefits that marital harmony can bring and we have a powerful argument for taking delivery of the 151FD.:p

We have a 150FD and I can't fathom how it could get much better than this. Take the 151FD, snuggle with your wife, and call it a day! ;)

Only MSRP is allowed but again I thought we made a point about the 250 mile radios already (hundreds of times :), just call around and its simple as that.

So are you saying you are willing to pay people's attorneys fees to get any issues with Pioneer resolved? Sound like a big investment to undertake, just to bend the rules... ;)

We have a 150FD and I can't fathom how it could get much better than this. Take the 151FD, snuggle with your wife, and call it a day! ;)

I would agree go with the 151 and you will be happy IMO

The average consumer who is not on this forum should not be able to find an online price for an Elite if all the authorized dealers were abiding by their contracts. Hence, they would only see them at their local or surrounding B&M store.

Secondly, if you are picking the unit up then you would be within 250 miles of the store. Or driving more than 250 miles from your location this rule would not apply as you would be picking it up in person.

Pioneer's logic is to protect the integrity of the Elite line and maintain its "elite" status. I hope I am not the first to inform you on this but Pioneer is in the business to make money. By keeping the margins "healthy" on the Elite lines it allows them to continue to produce these awesome screens that everyone loves.

Also, this protects a store who pays the flooring cost on Elite models. If online sales were permitted, you could go into your local store, take the sales persons time and expertise, and then just go buy the unit from on online dealer. This makes no sense.

Upon approval from Pioneer I will be posting the section of their dealer contract the state the territory rules regarding Elite sales.

That same argument could be used for a reversal of the policy, no online sales within a 250 mile limit (so as not to compete with local b&M).

It's kinda like "Do I want to sell 1 widget for a million dollars or a million widgets for $1?". I don't know what the local b&m's are selling them for, but I might be able to stretch my budget for an online buy, but not at MSRP. One Elite sell gone, possibly. How many sells are lost?

So are you saying you are willing to pay people's attorneys fees to get any issues with Pioneer resolved? Sound like a big investment to undertake, just to bend the rules... ;)

I dont think that was what he meant.

Nevertheless, I would consider representing them for free.

Paul

I took some more pictures of the PDP-6020FDwow, pretty cool, thanks! Can you take a shot of the profile view, under normal light conditions, to show the thickness (or depth) of the display chassis, appreciate it.

I dont think that was what he meant.

Nevertheless, I would consider representing them for free.

Paul

Paul,

Let's be honest here we both know that the people who are making the biggest fuss about the online sales of the elite line are those who stand to profit from it. Most people prefer to build relationships based on integrity and honesty. With this in mind, it makes me wonder why someone would want to buy from these online dealers who are so willing to break Pioneer's policies. I think I would take everything that is said by these "dealers" (that is in quotes on purpose) with a HUGE grain of salt.

Authorized dealers here on the forum and some B&M stores have a better price than the Pioneer store in Costa Mesa, CA.
I asked the saleswoman there if they would match the price the AD were charging me and when I told how much they quoted me the 151 she laughed and said I was for sure wrong quoting the 6020. I said, I was positive about the lower than MSRP price for the 151. She said no way. She said she would have some room to play but definitely not as much as I quoted for.

So, I am surprise why the Pioneer store does not match the discount Authorized dealers are asking. very strange to me.

Unfortunately, it's not surprising to me at at all for a couple reasons.

1) The don't want to be seen as taking business from their authorized dealers - this would certainly piss me off if I was a dealer in the area and the Pioneer store was undercutting me on price.

2)The bigger reason however is that I don't believe that the Pioneer retail store is in business specifically to make money for itself (at least anytime soon). Rather, the retail operation is simply to build the brand (and awareness) for sales thru all channels (not necessarily thru the retail store). I mean if it was to make money, would they really have put in in South Coast Plaza (with sky-high rents) rather than a highly visible location on a high traffic intersection (with easier parking and access)?

However, maybe the retail store is designed to make money and the company is testing a method to capture more of the value chain of their product to see if it a viable method to sell their products (and eliminate dealers in targeted markets).

I could (and probably are ) be wrong in my assessments but I thought I would throw it out there. Who knows (not me)?

D-Nice,

Given the choice between 151 and 141, which one would you get? Thanks.

When I got home last night and started to surf the Net on my PS3 I noticed that the Buzzing on my 6020 has increased some.
I decided to see how far away I could hear it.
I was able to hear it from 16 feet away. Which is as far away from it I could get in my small living room area. When the screen changes from dark to bright is when I can hear the pitch change from not so bad to worse. Total white screen is the worse.
Maybe the room acoustics are playing a part, but my 5080 I had never buzzed anywhere near this loud. I could hear the 5080 if I stuck my head behind the TV and really listened but I can hear this one in front of the TV.
It seems to get louder when you sit down at ear level with the TV directly in front(which is where I watch TV from obviously.
I am debating whether or not to call pioneer. I probably will. Hearing if from 16 feet away can't be normal.
Is there anything that I cna do to reduce this? Doe the buzz get softer as the TV breaks-in?

What would you guys do, would you call pioneer?

Thanks,
Chad


That is bad news that the buzz issue has persisted into this year. Here is over 50 pages discussing this issue.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949003

As far as I can tell, no one who had this problem and called in for service ever had it fixed. I was just about to pull the trigger on a 150 last year, and just couldn't go forward spending this amount of money and risking this problem. I was hoping it would be addressed in the new models. I am very disappointed.

The only thing that's going to shake loose with the 141FD, are a bunch of IP features that will never get used. And according to a well known ISF person on these threads, the calibration you get via on line, won't be the same as having a ISF tech right there for the best possible calibration.


I was curious about this online calibration. I assume that the ISF person can't actually measure the output of the television and determine the proper settings. Is that correct? Therefore, isn't it safe to assume they would be inputing a fixed group of settings based on some information and/or formula?

And isn't it also safe to assume that somebody, D-Nice for example, will be posting settings for the 151FD at some point?

Therefore, for a forum user, isn't the IP feature basically irrelevant since there's nothing the remote ISF person could do that the owner/forum user couldn't in a few minutes?

D-Nice,

Given the choice between 151 and 141, which one would you get? Thanks.151

I'm considering stand vs. flat wall-mount for a new 6020. I was originally planning for wall-mount, but I'll be moving in 6-12 months so I'm having second thoughts. Advice from some existing 6010 or 150FD owners would be ideal!

The popular stand seems to be the BDI deploy series (http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/deploy_9629.shtml), but the 19" top shelf seems pretty high for the 6020.

I did some measurements this morning..

Bottom of screen (image w/o border) would be at ~28". Top of screen would be at ~57". My normal viewing height when sitting on my couch is ~42"-44".

If I were to wall-mount, I would probably mount about 5"-10" lower, so that the top of the screen would be at around 50" (thoughts?).

Anyone have any advice for other good stands out there?

Have any of the 6010 owners found a good way to lower the TV height on the stand? I don't need to attach the bottom speaker.

Paul,

Let's be honest here we both know that the people who are making the biggest fuss about the online sales of the elite line are those who stand to profit from it. Most people (might be a stereotype type that doesn't apply to lawyers) prefer to build relationships based on integrity and honesty. With this in mind, it makes me wonder why someone would want to buy from these online dealers who are so willing to break Pioneer's policies. I think I would take everything that is said by these "dealers" (that is in quotes on purpose) with a HUGE grain of salt.

Didn't Roman used to work for you? Clearly there is a conflict of interest here between the two parties, but I think you guys should take that elsewhere rather than airing your differences on this forum. Just a thought.

Paul,

Let's be honest here we both know that the people who are making the biggest fuss about the online sales of the elite line are those who stand to profit from it. Most people (might be a stereotype type that doesn't apply to lawyers) prefer to build relationships based on integrity and honesty. With this in mind, it makes me wonder why someone would want to buy from these online dealers who are so willing to break Pioneer's policies. I think I would take everything that is said by these "dealers" (that is in quotes on purpose) with a HUGE grain of salt.

Excuse me, but the people making the biggest fuss over Elite online sales are those interested in acquiring these units without being left in the lurch if any problems arise. The input from these "dealers" has been very helpful in determining that there is indeed no risk of voiding an Elite warranty if outside of the 250 mile zone. These "dealers" have first-rate reputations within these forums, and have been of great value.

It is clear you have your own self-serving motives for making these comments.

Didn't Roman used to work for you? Clearly there is a conflict of interest here between the two parties, but I think you guys should take that elsewhere rather than airing your differences on this forum. Just a thought.

My discourse on this subject is within the parameters as described by the forum rules. The reason I mention these points is for the protection of the members of the forum. And to hopefully avoid any legal proceedings due to a warranty dispute.

I'm considering stand vs. flat wall-mount for a new 6020. I was originally planning for wall-mount, but I'll be moving in 6-12 months so I'm having second thoughts. Advice from some existing 6010 or 150FD owners would be ideal!

The popular stand seems to be the BDI deploy series (http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/deploy_9629.shtml), but the 19" top shelf seems pretty high for the 6020.

I did some measurements this morning..

Bottom of screen (image w/o border) would be at ~28". Top of screen would be at ~57". My normal viewing height when sitting on my couch is ~42"-44".

If I were to wall-mount, I would probably mount about 5"-10" lower, so that the top of the screen would be at around 50" (thoughts?).

Anyone have any advice for other good stands out there?

Have any of the 6010 owners found a good way to lower the TV height on the stand? I don't need to attach the bottom speaker.

I'm not an existing owner, just a wannabe future owner, but I will give you my reasoning for deciding for a stand. I'm not planning on moving, but you never know and the repair work on the wall would not be minimal. The second reason is if I wall mount, I would run the wires in the wall. This really complicates any future additions or replacements of cables.

Also, my tv will probably be sitting higher than yours, largely due to a very tall center speaker (10"). I was concerned about this, but my viewing distance is 9" - 11' so I can go a little higher. I also remember one of the dealers mentioning they normally installed the bottom of the tv 40" from the floor, to help prevent inadvertant damage.

Many others went the other way, but that is my $.04 (inflation).

can you buy elites online? or do you have to go to a B&m store?

Why not call Pioneer?

After about 48 hours of break-in, I can hear buzzing from the back of my 6020, but not from the front, and definitely not from 16 feet away. My living room is all carpet & drapes, so the acoustics may help dampen any excess noise.

If it were audible from a 'minimum comfortable' viewing distance from the front of the panel (around 8' for me), I would call.

JimmyStyx

When I got home last night and started to surf the Net on my PS3 I noticed that the Buzzing on my 6020 has increased some.
I decided to see how far away I could hear it.
I was able to hear it from 16 feet away. Which is as far away from it I could get in my small living room area. When the screen changes from dark to bright is when I can hear the pitch change from not so bad to worse. Total white screen is the worse.
Maybe the room acoustics are playing a part, but my 5080 I had never buzzed anywhere near this loud. I could hear the 5080 if I stuck my head behind the TV and really listened but I can hear this one in front of the TV.
It seems to get louder when you sit down at ear level with the TV directly in front(which is where I watch TV from obviously.
I am debating whether or not to call pioneer. I probably will. Hearing if from 16 feet away can't be normal.
Is there anything that I cna do to reduce this? Doe the buzz get softer as the TV breaks-in?

What would you guys do, would you call pioneer?

Thanks,
Chad

Why not call Pioneer?

After about 48 hours of break-in, I can hear buzzing from the back of my 6020, but not from the front, and definitely not from 16 feet away. My living room is all carpet & drapes, so the acoustics may help dampen any excess noise.

If it were audible from a 'minimum comfortable' viewing distance from the front of the panel (around 8' for me), I would call.

JimmyStyx

I would call them as well, it is the best option for fixing the problem.

Excuse me, but the people making the biggest fuss over Elite online sales are those interested in acquiring these units without being left in the lurch if any problems arise. The input from these "dealers" has been very helpful in determining that there is indeed no risk of voiding an Elite warranty if outside of the 250 mile zone. These "dealers" have first-rate reputations within these forums, and have been of great value.

It is clear you have your own self-serving motives for making these comments.

I hate to break it to you but there is a risk of voiding your warranty if outside the 250 mile zone. Here is a better question: Can you really be dealer if you are not authorized? Pioneer does have ways of tracking such things and I have seen claims denied by Pioneer in the past.

As per my own self serving motives for these comments, I stand to gain nothing from making these statements. We do not and will not sell Elites online until Pioneer (if they ever do) authorizes those sales.

before I fork over the money for an upgrade,what is the secret recipe for the sm for color temp calibration?

I don't post much, but because DNice said Pioneer watches this forum here is my message to them: I have $10,000 to spend, but I will not be ripped off by paying MSRP at a local B&M.

Here is an email I sent them expressing my concerns about the warranty policy. They did not respond:
I am interested in an Elite Pro 151FD, an Elite SC-07 Receiver, and an Elite BDP-05FD Blu-Ray Player. Please explain Pioneer’s purchase and warranty policy for these items.
My main area of concern is online/phone purchases and a 250 mile rule. I understand I must purchase from an authorized dealer, that makes sense. However, I have heard of a 250 mile ban on Elite sales. Quite frankly, this makes no sense. I don't mind supporting the local Best Buy or Tweeter and paying a few hundred dollars more, but it is irresponsible to purchase from them when I can save thousands of dollars from an out of town or online authorized dealer.
As I enjoy top quality products, I will most likely purchase a Pioneer plasma. However, I can easily purchase Denon or other top end audio and Blu-Ray products at a significant savings online. I don't understand why you would want to tie the hands of your authorized dealers that are more knowledgeable and sell your product better than the high school kid working at Best Buy.
If I am in New York on business and buy an Elite product and bring it back to Florida, will the warranty be valid?
Any clarification you can provide regarding your policy is greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time

For some reason, they never responded to my email. I understand business is business, but I work hard to earn a living and I WILL shop around for the best deal. Even if that means waiting until next year and getting a Panasonic with Pioneer's technology.

If the Pioneer reps watching this thread have not noticed Panasonic wisely does not restrict their dealers. Please give this message and all of the others posting the same sentiment to your bosses.

My discourse on this subject is within the parameters as described by the forum rules. The reason I mention these points is for the protection of the members of the forum. And to hopefully avoid any legal proceedings due to a warranty dispute.

The cheapshots at Roman since he departed from Invision staff has been ridiculous and discussing it with other members on the forums, I'm not the only one who can see them.

Maybe he's calling you nasty names behind close door. If so, follow it up there and don't pollute the forum with it. Stick to promoting your business. These "but I'm looking out for the consumer!" posts aren't really doing a good job at masking the cheap shots.

If people are comfortable buying Elites from Roman, they'll do so. If not, they won't.

That is bad news that the buzz issue has persisted into this year. Here is over 50 pages discussing this issue.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949003

As far as I can tell, no one who had this problem and called in for service ever had it fixed. I was just about to pull the trigger on a 150 last year, and just couldn't go forward spending this amount of money and risking this problem. I was hoping it would be addressed in the new models. I am very disappointed.

I have owned 5 Pio plasmas dating back to 3G models, and each has had a varying degree of buzzing, none of which was ever bad enough to keep me from enjoying the set. We usually watch with sound, which completely drowns out the buzzing. We also have tile that might accentuate the buzzing a bit. Pio and other manufacturers put a note about the possibility in the manuals. It appears to be a side effect of the technology.

Frankly, I don't understand all the "buzz" about this issue! ;)

Has anybody used Costco's installation services, Install LLC? They offer great price for a wall mount.

I have owned 5 Pio plasmas dating back to 3G models, and each has had a varying degree of buzzing, none of which was ever bad enough to keep me from enjoying the set. We usually watch with sound, which completely drowns out the buzzing. We also have tile that might accentuate the buzzing a bit. Pio and other manufacturers put a note about the possibility in the manuals. It appears to be a side effect of the technology.

Frankly, I don't understand all the "buzz" about this issue! ;)

To add I think the reports have been minimal so far. We will know more once allot more units are out there.

Frankly, I don't understand all the "buzz" about this issue! ;)

If I could hear the buzz from my seating positions during quiet passages, that would be a deal breaker for me. :eek:

I can't for the life of me understand how Pioneer could not have fixed this for 2008. If it's a side-effect of the technology, how come it's not a problem with the Pannys? Although one can reasonably speculate that Pios will not buzz starting next year. ;)

...

Also, this protects a store who pays the flooring cost on Elite models. If online sales were permitted, you could go into your local store, take the sales persons time and expertise, and then just go buy the unit from on online dealer. This makes no sense.

...



I was drinking a beer, reading this thread, and I almost spit it out all over my laptop. Seriously, in this day and age, what expertise? The last salesperson that truly knew what they were talking about was the guy who sold me my Definitive speakers back in 1998 from a now closed, local, high-end audio/video shop. I've been to BB Magnolia and to a Tweeter and I clearly knew more than both sales people. Add to that, they tried to convince me that the 9G models couldn't possibly be that much better and that I'd be better off getting a deal on an 8g (we know this to be a joke with the drop in MSRP). When I go to my local store, I politely turn the sales person away so not to waste their time. That way they can go misinform someone else.

...Even if that means waiting until next year and getting a Panasonic with Pioneer's technology.


:rolleyes: :D :p :rolleyes:

That's the key. It's not the consumers problem to backtrack Pioneer's distro channels. It's their problem as they are the ones who are "suppose" to only take alloment orders from "authorized" distributors.

I would love for them to explain how an unarthorized distributor can purchase product from their own hub.

Thank you, my point exactly!


bob

If people are comfortable buying Elites from Roman, they'll do so. If not, they won't.

I for one, am comfortable buying an Elite from Roman. His reputation here speaks for itself. He's a class act.:)

I hate to break it to you but there is a risk of voiding your warranty if outside the 250 mile zone.

Seriously, enough on this warranty issue already.

While I hate to bring it up in forums, I can tell you as an attorney with a fair amt. of experience dealing with consumer protection issues that there is basically a ZERO percent chance that Pioneer could succeed in voiding someone's warranty if push came to shove for many of the reasons already stated by D-Nice. Let me say it again: ZERO. The terms of the written warranty apply: what's there is what's there, and Pioneer can't somehow read in additional, unstated terms.

The separate issue is whether some self-important Pioneer employee can tell you that your warranty is void if you do x-y-z. As members have already seen, this kind of baloney happens all of the time. I've lost track of the number of times that I've had an employee of an insurance company tell me that my client does not have coverage for a specific loss only to see the same joker swallow those words when confronted with the actual language of the policy.

Bottom line: the warranty is the warranty and empty threats are just that and should be treated accordingly.

Now can everyone stop wringing their hands and get this thread back on track?

If I could hear the buzz from my seating positions during quiet passages, that would be a deal breaker for me. :eek:

I can't for the life of me understand how Pioneer could not have fixed this for 2008. If it's a side-effect of the technology, how come it's not a problem with the Pannys? Although one can reasonably speculate that Pios will not buzz starting next year. ;)

I would agree that if it is so loud you can hear it 10 feet away while watching material, then that would be a problem and I would contact Pio. I haven't had that issue so maybe I'm just lucky. Settings also have alot to do with buzzing; the more aggressive settings seem to have louder buzzing.

Also, everyone has a different tolerance level, so what is loud for you may not be bothersome for me.

I can't speak for the Pannys because I don't own one, but I can verify that the Vizio plasmas our church owns buzz alot more than our Pios ever have. But like has been mentioned before, but buzzing (even what ours do) is usually only when I'm very close or parallel with the set. It seems to be directed to the rear, and probably is bouncing off the wall for those to hear it so far away.

I guess if it bothers you, then you need to address it with Pio, but be aware that you might get the "consequence of the techology" speech, which does have some validity to it.

Has anybody used Costco's installation services, Install LLC? They offer great price for a wall mount.

I believe they work with Installs Inc. That is what Best Buy used before they went all Magnolia. From what I remember they do great work, the only problem is the scheduling issue, they are awful as making the appointments. Unless they have fixed it.

Team Kuro,

A question for everyone on the evolution of the 9G threads.

I love the concept of the general discussion thread being broken out from the “Owners” threads, and I think it was a great idea to separate the elite and non-elite “Owners” threads. But is there a plan for the “Settings/Issues” thread(s)?

Personally, I think that (like the “Owners” threads) there should not be a single “Settings/Issues” thread dedicated to both elite and non-elite panels. Further, I think it makes sense that there should be an Elite “Settings/Issues” thread—but also that no such thread should exist for the non-elite panels. There just doesn’t seem to be enough settings to warrant a thread separate from the “Owners” thread. :)

I don’t have any particular hard and fast feelings on this; most of you have been at this far longer than I have. But I just wanted to throw the topic out there and put in my two cents. I’m a relatively new member, but I’ve been lurking a long time and have been reading the 8G threads for the better part of the past year.

P.S. I think we should start “The Official Kuro Elite Warranty Discussion Thread.” Only half-kidding here. . .

P.P.S. 5020 has shipped! Whoo Hoo!

D-Nice,

Given the choice between 151 and 141, which one would you get? Thanks.

I don't understand these kinds of questions!

There are so many variables that go into making a decision about any purchace of this value that you cannot simply ask which would you get of the forum expert.

I could ask which car would you get a Bugatti veyron 16.4 or a Volkswagen Ludo same parent company, but a ridiculous question.

I know it is your first question in this forum and I hate to criticize you like this, but do some research first, understand the differences and decide what your parameters are, cost, convenience, quality, flecibiillty, etc. and make your purchace decision base upon this. Don't forget that all this customizing can lead you to screw thing up big time if you are not willing to make the effort (or money) into all calibrations required.

If it's a side-effect of the technology, how come it's not a problem with the Pannys?

Panasonic has two layers of glass, and Pioneer has one. The extra layer blocks more of the buzz from the plasma panel. It also introduces an internal reflection, so that, from side angles, you see a double image on the Panasonic. Another sheet of glass also adds considerable weight to the TV.

So, you can choose between louder buzz (Pio) or double images (Panny).

As Thebarnman said... why don't you support a local Authorized Dealer then who is already willing to give you a good price?

People wonder why Vizio and other brands do well, because as consumers we speak with our money and in general we say we want quality, but when it comes to paying, people want to nickle and dime everything even the forum sponsors. Support your independant shops or all you will have left are BB/Mag stores.

Russ

Good points,

But like I said, if I am willing to buy and I know the price the AD are asking, there is no reason for them to not make a sale. People on this forum are the large minority of well informed consumers. Is not like Pioneer will be losing money.

They are loosing money if they sell it pretty much for what they bought it for. It's not worth their time, and you are waisting their time.

why don't you support a local Authorized Dealer then who is already willing to give you a good price?



I will. :)

Just shopping around in order to get the best deal. That's all.

The cheapshots at Roman since he departed from Invision staff has been ridiculous and discussing it with other members on the forums, I'm not the only one who can see them.

Maybe he's calling you nasty names behind close door. If so, follow it up there and don't pollute the forum with it. Stick to promoting your business. These "but I'm looking out for the consumer!" posts aren't really doing a good job at masking the cheap shots.

If people are comfortable buying Elites from Roman, they'll do so. If not, they won't.

First of all I was directing those comments towards any Elite online dealer. If you are making that connection directly to Roman that is at your digression. The information I offered is valuable to those who are not familiar with the policies. And you are wrong if you think I will sit by and let people "pollute" this forum with false information.

Can we please get back to discussing the panels, not having vendor wars? The warranty discussions were more valuable than some of the vendor comments here. I would encourage everyone to patronize those vendors that help and support instead of those who knock down other vendors.......

Perhaps the perception is that you are trying to discourage Elite sales, because you can not sell Elites. So if you are able to discourage Elite sales, you might get more non-elite sales. As someone else noticed, Invision's subtle attacks on another forum sponsor is quite disappointing.

The information provided by people like D-Nice and the forum sponsors is a postive. No need to pollute with this other garbage.

I hate to break it to you but there is a risk of voiding your warranty if outside the 250 mile zone. Here is a better question: Can you really be dealer if you are not authorized? Pioneer does have ways of tracking such things and I have seen claims denied by Pioneer in the past.

As per my own self serving motives for these comments, I stand to gain nothing from making these statements. We do not and will not sell Elites online until Pioneer (if they ever do) authorizes those sales.

I'm sure it's in here and I missed it:

Do any 9G's have a matte bezel? I actually returned an 1140 because the shiny/wavy reflections on the bezel were so distracting!



bob

That's good, my comment was a general view of the state of affairs. People wonder why there aren't mom and pop stores and why there are walmarts, targets, home depots, and BB everywhere.

It's because people are trying to get the best deal and the ones that are suffering is the buyer and these smaller shops because you are losing customer service and buliding a relationship.

Look at Robert and what he provides to the forum, you aren't going to get that from any BB.

Russ

I will. :)

Just shopping around in order to get the best deal. That's all.

Perhaps the perception is that you are trying to discourage Elite sales, because you can not sell Elites. So if you are able to discourage Elite sales, you might get more non-elite sales. As someone else noticed, Invision's subtle attacks on another forum sponsor is quite disappointing.

The information provided by people like D-Nice and the forum sponsors is a postive. No need to pollute with this other garbage.

On the contrary, We are authorized to sell Elite with in our 250 mile radius :p

Paul,

Most people (might be a stereotype type that doesn't apply to lawyers) prefer to build relationships based on integrity and honesty.With this in mind, it makes me wonder why someone would want to buy from these online dealers who are so willing to break Pioneer's policies. I think I would take everything that is said by these "dealers" (that is in quotes on purpose) with a HUGE grain of salt.

The reason I mention these points is for the protection of the members of the forum. And to hopefully avoid any legal proceedings due to a warranty dispute.

I hate to break it to you but there is a risk of voiding your warranty if outside the 250 mile zone. Here is a better question: Can you really be dealer if you are not authorized? Pioneer does have ways of tracking such things and I have seen claims denied by Pioneer in the past.

As per my own self serving motives for these comments, I stand to gain nothing from making these statements. We do not and will not sell Elites online until Pioneer (if they ever do) authorizes those sales.

Wow! :eek:

Nice slam of some of our very helpful Elite dealers and attorneys too!

Since you cannot sell Elites, what warranty dispute are you concerned with?

As for the purity of your motives.....hmmmm.....Wouldn't scaring potential buyers away from Elites possibly increase your business as a non-Elite-only dealer?

I have seen nothing that would scare me from my purchase, even if mileage from my dealer was not within the radius.

And if something did turn me away from the Elite, I know which way I would not run.

Also, everyone has a different tolerance level, so what is loud for you may not be bothersome for me.

I think this is what it comes down to. Everyone has their own priorities. And different sets buzz at different loudnesses; my impression is that the great majority of Pios do not have an objectionable buzz. I ended up choosing Panny due to budget reasons, but the chance of getting a buzzer would have concerned me if I were going Pio. I still would have chanced it, however, if Pio had been my choice.

Panasonic has two layers of glass, and Pioneer has one. The extra layer blocks more of the buzz from the plasma panel. It also introduces an internal reflection, so that, from side angles, you see a double image on the Panasonic. Another sheet of glass also adds considerable weight to the TV.

Thanks for the explanation - it makes sense. FWIW, I have the 50PZ800U and don't see any double images even from my far-right seating position. I love the Panny, but would have gotten the Kuro if the budget had been there. If I got a buzzer, it would go back for another.

Wow! :eek:

Nice slam of some of our very helpful Elite dealers and attorneys too!

Since you cannot sell Elites, what warranty dispute are you concerned with?

As for the purity of your motives.....hmmmm.....Wouldn't scaring potential buyers away from Elites possibly increase your business as a non-Elite-only dealer?

I have seen nothing that would scare me from my purchase, even if mileage from my dealer was not within the radius.

And if something did turn me away from the Elite, I know which way I would not run.

Refer to previous post :)

Don't feed the troll (with comments or orders).

Panasonic has two layers of glass, and Pioneer has one. The extra layer blocks more of the buzz from the plasma panel. It also introduces an internal reflection, so that, from side angles, you see a double image on the Panasonic. Another sheet of glass also adds considerable weight to the TV.

So, you can choose between louder buzz (Pio) or double images (Panny).

Is there a buzzing issue with the PZ800 series now it is only single pane of glass. Just wondering if there is a problem with both of just the one.

I think this is what it comes down to. Everyone has their own priorities. And different sets buzz at different loudnesses; my impression is that the great majority of Pios do not have an objectionable buzz. I ended up choosing Panny due to budget reasons, but the chance of getting a buzzer would have concerned me if I were going Pio. I still would have chanced it, however, if Pio had been my choice.
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True, plus it also depends on your homes setup, hardwood floors as an example.

Is there a buzzing issue with the PZ800 series now it is only single pane of glass. Just wondering if there is a problem with both of just the one.

It's not actually a single pane of glass. It's a single pane of glass "design", i.e. it appears to have a single pane. There are still two panes in there.

I think this is what it comes down to. Everyone has their own priorities. And different sets buzz at different loudnesses; my impression is that the great majority of Pios do not have an objectionable buzz. I ended up choosing Panny due to budget reasons, but the chance of getting a buzzer would have concerned me if I were going Pio. I still would have chanced it, however, if Pio had been my choice.


You certainly have a nice panel as Panny makes a great unit. :) I think sometimes we (me definitely included) obsess a bit too much about such things and forget to enjoy our toys once we bring them home....

FWIW, I have the 50PZ800U and don't see any double images even from my far-right seating position.

Someone posted a photo of the double-image on a Panasonic. But, most people won't notice it. By the same token, most people will not be bothered by the buzz on the Pioneer.

Is there a buzzing issue with the PZ800 series now it is only single pane of glass. Just wondering if there is a problem with both of just the one.

Isn't the PZ800 a single glass sheet "look"? ie., it still has two sheets of glass.

You certainly have a nice panel as Panny makes a great unit. :) I think sometimes we (me definitely included) obsess a bit too much about such things and forget to enjoy our toys once we bring them home....

I feel the same way, enjoy what we have and tell yourself you made the right choice when get it home.

Someone posted a photo of the double-image on a Panasonic. But, most people won't notice it. By the same token, most people will not be bothered by the buzz on the Pioneer.



Isn't the PZ800 a single glass sheet "look"? ie., it still has two sheets of glass.

I am pretty sure you are right, only the Pio and the new LG's have single sheet of glass.

I think this warranty concern for forum members could be alleviated if we could find a few more Elite dealers across the US which would offer significant discounts to us. Then, even if a potential buyer was outside the imaginary circle, they could still consider making a day trip or carpooling with another forum member to visit the store and pick up an Elite product in person. I know of multiple forum sponsors and contributors on the west coast, in New York, and in Colorado.

How about scrounging up a Pioneer Elite dealer in the midwest (Chicago or Columbus) and a couple down south (Texas and Georgia)?

That's interesting information. You may want to tell Pioneer to update their website as you are not listed as an Authorized Elite Dealer. Also, you may want to update Invision's website and your retail store website, as there is no mention of being authorized for Elites there either.


On the contrary, We are authorized to sell Elite with in our 250 mile radius :p

That's interesting information. You may want to tell Pioneer to update their website as you are not listed as an Authorized Elite Dealer. Also, you may want to update Invision's website and your retail store website, as there is no mention of being authorized for Elites there either.

Russwong,

It is under Poulsbo Audio Video, our showroom and can only be sold locally.

That's interesting information. You may want to tell Pioneer to update their website as you are not listed as an Authorized Elite Dealer. Also, you may want to update Invision's website and your retail store website, as there is no mention of being authorized for Elites there either.

It should be updated in the next few weeks, thanks for reminding me. Our local site is currently being redone. :)

Frankly, I don't understand all the "buzz" about this issue! ;)

I used to think the exact same way.
When I had my 5080, I saw the Buzz poll thread on here and thought to myself "the buzz is not that bad". And the buzz on my 5080 was so light that you really had to get close and listen, but you could hear it slightly if you really tried. So I dismissed the buzz issue as just "picky" buyers.

Until now.

When I am watching a movie on my new 6020 and it gets silent, I can hear the buzz clearly, And when I see scenes with High Bright Whites it gets even louder to the point that I hate it when a bright scene comes because i think to myself "here it comes".
I just don't like being distracted like that when watching a movie.
I thought that maybe it was a speaker problem so I unplugged the speakers but it did not stop. It is definitly coming from the front of the screen. Its louder in the front than the back.
Maybe it will get better after break-in. I sure hope so.

I used to think the exact same way.
When I had my 5080, I saw the Buzz poll thread on here and thought to myself "the buzz is not that bad". And the buzz on my 5080 was so light that you really had to get close and listen, but you could hear it slightly if you really tried. So I dismissed the buzz issue as just "picky" buyers.

Until now.

When I am watching a movie on my new 6020 and it gets silent, I can hear the buzz clearly, And when I see scenes with High Bright Whites it gets even louder to the point that I hate it when a bright scene comes because i think to myself "here it comes".
I just don't like being distracted like that when watching a movie.
I thought that maybe it was a speaker problem so I unplugged the speakers but it did not stop. It is definitly coming from the front of the screen. Its louder in the front than the back.
Maybe it will get better after break-in. I sure hope so.

I have always heard the buzz on a plasma before and have not thought anything of it. Funny thing is I have never heard the irregular buzz on the Pioneer yet. We have had customers have the buzzing problem before and had the unit sent back to our showroom and there was no buzzing at all when we hooked it up. I don't know what it comes from but it happens in some places and not in others.