The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread [Text View] - Page 20

chadmak09

06-13-08, 07:59 PM

prepress

06-13-08, 08:01 PM

spongebob

06-13-08, 08:05 PM

Chad

How is your AC there? Do you have 120 Volts of clean power? Have you tried a power strip with supressor, etc?

bob

I used to think the exact same way.
When I had my 5080, I saw the Buzz poll thread on here and thought to myself "the buzz is not that bad". And the buzz on my 5080 was so light that you really had to get close and listen, but you could hear it slightly if you really tried. So I dismissed the buzz issue as just "picky" buyers.

Until now.

When I am watching a movie on my new 6020 and it gets silent, I can hear the buzz clearly, And when I see scenes with High Bright Whites it gets even louder to the point that I hate it when a bright scene comes because i think to myself "here it comes".
I just don't like being distracted like that when watching a movie.
I thought that maybe it was a speaker problem so I unplugged the speakers but it did not stop. It is definitly coming from the front of the screen. Its louder in the front than the back.
Maybe it will get better after break-in. I sure hope so.

David Susilo

06-13-08, 08:06 PM

Someone posted a photo of the double-image on a Panasonic. But, most people won't notice it. By the same token, most people will not be bothered by the buzz on the Pioneer.
.

Won't notice it? All you need is to sit just a tad off axis and you'll see the double image.

hingis_fan

06-13-08, 08:20 PM

Chad,

optimum mode looks pretty darn good on that pic....Movie should be very good too once you tweak it.

Mr. 568

06-13-08, 08:21 PM

I suspect that this is a Pioneer power supply problem. I've had an Elite RPTV for years, and it emits a pitched buzz. The more white on the screen, the louder it is. Hopefully these plasmas are not as bad as my RPTV.

chadmak09

06-13-08, 08:25 PM

Chad,

optimum mode looks pretty darn good on that pic....Movie should be very good too once you tweak it.

Yes movie is my favorite.

E-A-G-L-E-S

06-13-08, 08:28 PM

How you could have taken that to mean I was implying anyone here were 'dults' is truly beyond me.

It's been my experience that discussions about Telecine get very lengthy and for a group like this, would be unnecessarily redundant. Quite the opposite of how you seem to have interpreted my remarks.

Sorry if anyone felt slighted, it was not my intention, but you've completely misinterpreted my motives.

A_C

Picture inserted:

{Foot-mouth}
I mistook your words.

Agent_C

06-13-08, 08:31 PM

Picture inserted:

{Foot-mouth}
I mistook your words.

No biggie.

:)

manuc

06-13-08, 08:38 PM

Been following the kuro forums for over a year and finally invested in my first HDTV - a KURO from one of the most well regarded forum sponsors here.

Got a call on Tuesday that my TV was ready to ship, got verification it was going to ship from southern California to the bay area so I was expecting I would get it today - I was told maybe if we get lucky, but worst case Monday. I was extactic! A 3 year wait for my first HDTV was coming to a close finally. The KURO was a big stretch on us financially but I rationalized that the three year wait could be considered as money invested instead of spent.

Bode farewell to our old TV (worked flawlessly for 11 years!). Started to get worried when I didnt get the tracking number on email. Called the seller and left a message on Thursday, asking them to call me back - but no call as of Friday afternoon.

Finally called them 30 minutes back to ask about delivery and was told worst case next Friday, maybe a day or two early but theres no way to tell!!!

I was pretty upset at that point. We are without a tv, my kids are expecting it today - my four year old daughter who is listening to the conversation is in tears because she's realized shes not going to see dora another week!

So I dig deeper to understand why it would take a tv from southern california 9 calendar days to get here and learned the TV IS SHIPPING FROM GEORGIA !!!

At this point, Im pretty much feaking out - I had been explicit when placing the order as well as when I confirmed I still wanted it (prior to them shipping it) that I would only buy from them if the TV shipped from southern california - and I was assured that was the case.

Now I find out that isnt the case and there was no transparency around this - I would not have known if I had not pressed. Thats just wrong. Not wanting to jeopardize a sale is one thing but to withhold material information is just not ethical.

What makes all this worse is that I had the option to buy at Best Buy - they agreed to price match and guaranteed me delivery by today - and it would have given me the option to return the tv for 60 days, no questions asked. My wife thought I was crazy to go with an online vendor - but I had confidence in them given their reputation and ratings are stellar and given delivery was about the same time, it just felt right to buy from where I had placed the order first.

I'm still trying to come to terms with the cross country shipment - have read in a lot of forums that it isnt a good idea. Not sure what the risks are - a broken screen is easy to spot and fix - but what does 2000 miles of road vibration do to equipment that wasnt designed for it! Does it reduce the life of any of the components? Does it increase the risk of buzz? Does it impact the quality of the picture or sound .. who knows!!!

Any suggestions on what I should do?

Do I wait for the TV and accept shipment if there isnt any obvious damage?
Do I cancel and go back to the best buy and try my luck on the price match again.
Do I ask them to ship me one from southern california whenever it is available (could be weeks or more)

My wife doesnt see the diff between the panasonic plasma and the 5010 on the floor at costco. She gets employee pricing on the panasonic so it would have been a lot less. Maybe I should tell my wife that she was right all along and just buy the panasonic (yeah like thats going to happen after waiting for the Kuro for over a year and a half!)

All of this disappointment and worry could have been avoided if the vendor had just been upfront about where they were shipping from and when the tv would arrive. I feel let down - trust is very hard to regain once it is lost.

How worried should I be about what the extended road trip does to the TV and to the life of the TV?

More decisions - ugh! :(

Thebarnman

06-13-08, 08:40 PM

Ryan1

06-13-08, 08:42 PM

ROMAN O

06-13-08, 08:48 PM

How worried should I be about what the extended road trip does to the TV and to the life of the TV?

More decisions - ugh! :(

In the dealers defense it really does not matter if it ships from across the road or from the other side of the country in terms of damage. I have done these tests before. It is your decision on what steps to take.

rougebear

06-13-08, 08:53 PM

I used to think the exact same way.
When I had my 5080, I saw the Buzz poll thread on here and thought to myself "the buzz is not that bad". And the buzz on my 5080 was so light that you really had to get close and listen, but you could hear it slightly if you really tried. So I dismissed the buzz issue as just "picky" buyers.

Until now.

When I am watching a movie on my new 6020 and it gets silent, I can hear the buzz clearly, And when I see scenes with High Bright Whites it gets even louder to the point that I hate it when a bright scene comes because i think to myself "here it comes".
I just don't like being distracted like that when watching a movie.
I thought that maybe it was a speaker problem so I unplugged the speakers but it did not stop. It is definitly coming from the front of the screen. Its louder in the front than the back.
Maybe it will get better after break-in. I sure hope so.

You are going from a 50 inch panel that was 768p to a 60 inch 1080p. Why does the resolution make a difference? Because the buzz on the Pioneer Kuro panels is actually being emitted from the panel itself. Unlike Panasonic and most other panel manufactures the Pioneer only uses a single layer glass design and the others use double glass so the buzz from the panel is not noticeable. I recall you saying that you don't have surround sound so if you are just using the TV speakers then I could easily see how it might be a distraction. If you had a 5.1 system and listened to movies at moderate levels it would drown out the noise from the panel except for silent passages.

chadmak09

06-13-08, 09:08 PM

Wow, isn't there some serious black crush in the pics above?

The light detail on the left of the screen is totally missing in both movie and optimum.

(At the same time, some of the highlights are blown.)

Keep in mind th pictures were taken with a low quality camera, No calibration/settings adjustments were made whatsoever to ANY of the modes. I re-set all modes to factory defaults before taking picture.

townofturley

06-13-08, 09:15 PM

Ok here are some more Pictures as promised.
I know that its impossible to make totally accurate comparisions from pictures on a computer. (but it sure is fun)
I set all modes (performance, movie, Standard, etc) at the factory default before I took these pictures.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture001.jpg?t=1213401390
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture002-1.jpg?t=1213401431
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture003-1.jpg?t=1213401454
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture004-1.jpg?t=1213401471
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture005-1.jpg?t=1213401493
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture006-1.jpg?t=1213401518
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture007-1.jpg?t=1213401544

:D:D:D

I sure hope these images aren't what your set looks like. If my 150 looked like this, I never would have purchased it.

manuc

06-13-08, 09:15 PM

In the dealers defense it really does not matter if it ships from across the road or from the other side of the country in terms of damage. I have done these tests before. It is your decision on what steps to take.

Roman, good to hear that - but they why do so many people say its not a good idea to ship cross country?

Also, I can understand not volunteering that information to your customers, but if they ask, do you not disclose it?

sailwind

06-13-08, 09:15 PM

Keep in mind th pictures were taken with a low quality camera, No calibration/settings adjustments were made whatsoever to ANY of the modes. I re-set all modes to factory defaults before taking picture.

So are there supposed to be that vertical bar to the left in the movie? It's there in certain pics but not in movie/optimum/other modes. When watching physically do you see it in that mode?

townofturley

06-13-08, 09:18 PM

Now I find out that isnt the case and there was no transparency around this - I would not have known if I had not pressed. Thats just wrong. Not wanting to jeopardize a sale is one thing but to withhold material information is just not ethical.

(

I agree. This is completely unethical. Refuse delivery and get a set locally. This is only one of the reasons I'd never make a major purchase such as a TV from an online dealer, regardless of how much more I'd have to pay a local B&W store. And in fact, I've always been able to bargain a local store into a price that isn't too far off from online vendors.

When I got my 150, initially everything was fine. Then it started to shut off for now obvious reason. After the second time, I called the store. Two days later, they brought out a new unit, took the old one off the stand, mounted the new one, and it's been fine ever since. If I had purchased from an online vendor, I would have had to repack the original, send it back, receive the new one, mount it. No thanks.

chadmak09

06-13-08, 09:27 PM

rougebear

06-13-08, 09:30 PM

asystole13

06-13-08, 09:52 PM

Hi Guys and Gals,

I just got home with the 151fd and started to set it up. I will put up some pics in a little while.

Ken Ross

06-13-08, 09:55 PM

Panasonic has two layers of glass, and Pioneer has one. The extra layer blocks more of the buzz from the plasma panel. It also introduces an internal reflection, so that, from side angles, you see a double image on the Panasonic. Another sheet of glass also adds considerable weight to the TV.

So, you can choose between louder buzz (Pio) or double images (Panny).

I don't think it's that simple. I can well remember when I had gotten my Fujitsus and they were at the top of the flat panel heap, there were a number of reports on buzzing. Fujitsu was using Panasonic glass for the most part. All of these panels buzz in varying intensities.

abc123puck

06-13-08, 09:56 PM

I'm new to this whole Pio warranty thing. if I order a 5020 from buy.com, will I still receive the 1 year warranty

Ken Ross

06-13-08, 09:56 PM

I'm sure it's in here and I missed it:

Do any 9G's have a matte bezel? I actually returned an 1140 because the shiny/wavy reflections on the bezel were so distracting!

bob

Yeah, I never got an answer to that same question on the 9g Elites.

Nambit

06-13-08, 09:56 PM

When I am watching a movie on my new 6020 and it gets silent, I can hear the buzz clearly, And when I see scenes with High Bright Whites it gets even louder to the point that I hate it when a bright scene comes because i think to myself "here it comes".
I just don't like being distracted like that when watching a movie.
I thought that maybe it was a speaker problem so I unplugged the speakers but it did not stop. It is definitly coming from the front of the screen. Its louder in the front than the back.
Maybe it will get better after break-in. I sure hope so.

As a former buzzing 8g owner (Pro-150FD), I gotta give my viewpoints on the
subject. Keep in mind, mine often buzzed like a barber shop razor:

For the first 2 or so months, I was big time bothered by the buzzing of my 60
inch panel. So much so that I had a tech show up to my place 2 different
times (and got the infamous "It's within normal parameters" routine). Let's just
say that I was peeved that I spent over $8K on a TV and felt i deserved a lot
better support.

Well, there was another more serious issue that made me forget about the buzzing:
Streaks. For some reason, dealing with the streaks on my TV (never resolved)
actually steered my attention away from the buzzing. I eventually forgot the panel
actually buzzed and it never bothered me since. Even now, I am not as concerned
of the buzzing (although I want a buzz-free 9g) as the streaks were far worse!

My simple advice (that works) is to enjoy the movie and forget the buzz. You will
always hear it if you look for it, but it'll go away if you don't. Believe me, I
had one of the worse buzzers I'm sure. If you hear it through a movie still, then
the movie wasn't that good as watching a decent movie makes the buzz go away.

By all means, however, try to get rid of the buzz anyhow, but don't be surprised if
nothing can be done.

HDPeeT

06-13-08, 09:59 PM

Hi Guys and Gals,

I just got home with the 151fd and started to set it up. I will put up some pics in a little while.

:eek:http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/drool.gifhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/hyper.gifhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/rock.gif

spongebob

06-13-08, 10:00 PM

Been following the kuro forums for over a year and finally invested in my first HDTV - a KURO from one of the most well regarded forum sponsors here.

Bode farewell to our old TV (worked flawlessly for 11 years!). Started to get worried when I didnt get the tracking number on email. Called the seller and left a message on Thursday, asking them to call me back - but no call as of Friday afternoon.

More decisions - ugh! :(

Confucious say: "Neva get rid of old TV until new one set up and workie"

:p

bob

Ken Ross

06-13-08, 10:00 PM

spongebob

06-13-08, 10:00 PM

:eek:http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/drool.gifhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/hyper.gifhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/rock.gif

Hurry!!

spongebob

06-13-08, 10:02 PM

Yeah, I never got an answer to that same question on the 9g Elites.

Some of the promo shots look matte but who knows?

bob

Nambit

06-13-08, 10:03 PM

Do I wait for the TV and accept shipment if there isnt any obvious damage?
Do I cancel and go back to the best buy and try my luck on the price match again.
Do I ask them to ship me one from southern california whenever it is available (could be weeks or more)
Sorry to hear that you and the kids have no TV and are going through this.
Personally, I'd try to price-match BB with store and get it from there. It seems
to me that piece of mind is more important to you than anything else.

Aetherhole

06-13-08, 10:05 PM

Hi Guys and Gals,

I just got home with the 151fd and started to set it up. I will put up some pics in a little while.

Hurry with the pictures already!!! I'll be getting mine on Tuesday (I believe).

Congrats, by the way!

Nambit

06-13-08, 10:07 PM

Hi Guys and Gals,

I just got home with the 151fd and started to set it up. I will put up some pics in a little while.
:eek:

Need toilet paper.

abc123puck

06-13-08, 10:12 PM

Sry I am new here, but who are the forum sponsors that sell the pio's such as the 5020

mips33

06-13-08, 10:16 PM

Hurry with the pictures already!!! I'll be getting mine on Tuesday (I believe).

Congrats, by the way!
Hey Aetherhole may I ask where you ordered yours from? I'm right near Tustin in Irvine and there aren't many dealers near here that will take an order and least thats whats been told to me.

ddgtr

06-13-08, 10:18 PM

... I recall you saying that you don't have surround sound so if you are just using the TV speakers then I could easily see how it might be a distraction. If you had a 5.1 system and listened to movies at moderate levels it would drown out the noise from the panel except for silent passages.

For the money, that damn tv should be dead quiet. I am not paying $6K for a high quality amp, preamp and other components that give me excellent sound and transparency only to have the stupid buzz interfere... This is totally unacceptable folks...:(

asystole13

06-13-08, 10:21 PM

Here is the unpacking of the 151.

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151a.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151b.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151c.jpg

More to come!

botcher

06-13-08, 10:29 PM

Make sure both the left and right sides of the speaker are working.

When I first installed my 6020, I wasn't to impressed all that much with the sound. Then, the next day while playing MP3s over the LAN connection and playing in the menus, I tried the balance control, and was shocked to find out the left side was bad. I quickly flipped the left/right leads from the set itself to confirm that the set was ok; just that the speaker was defective.

The next day I called Pioneer directly to see if they could send me a replacement speaker, to which their response was that a service tech would need to come out to troubleshoot it.. Troubleshoot what? The damn thing was bad. Even after telling them I would return the 24 hour old set before playing the service call game, they would not budge. Fortunately my dealer stood behind me and pulled the speaker carton from another 6020 in his warehouse, and he's dealing with them. Glad I bought local this time around!

Anyway, back to the speaker - The thing sounds awesome. My 6020 is in my master bedroom, so I have no need for surround sound, but never the less, the sound from the speaker is awesome for a tv.

In case anyone is wondering, the defective speaker S/N ended in the 300 range. The replacement was in the 800 range, some 500 or so higher. Yet my set and the set the new speaker came from were only a few S/N away from each other. Maybe Pioneer had a bad batch of speaker assemblies?

Botcher

The sound from my 6020 is very sad! Not nearlly as good as my
Pani pz58700u. But that is about all i can say the Pani had over it.
Picture wise makes the Pani look embarrassing!!

That's why I am in the mists of putting together a sound system as we speak.
I think a real must with the sound that comes with the 9G.

zackmario

06-13-08, 10:42 PM

Georgia to California! Ahhh Hell naw! Those Georgia truckers are known to actually hook up the Kuro's to generators during the summer to catch some of the Braves game at the rest stop on the way to Cali...Do the Braves play next week?:eek:

Hang on, I need to go throw up. Will be right back.

fallenbuddha

06-13-08, 10:43 PM

Roman, good to hear that - but they why do so many people say its not a good idea to ship cross country?

I think it might have something to do with the intuitive, if not necessarily accurate, belief that the longer the trip, and the greater the incidence of handling, the greater the risk of something going awry to break the glass or affect some other component of the set - a sudden swerve of the truck that unsettles the cargo, running over potholes in the road, etc.

asystole13

06-13-08, 10:51 PM

Very easy to setup the stand and speakers. I will be running the break-in disc. It will stay on the kitchen table so we can continue to watch the other TV.

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151d.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151e.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151f.jpg

I have a catherdal ceiling with all 15 recessed lights on so that is why the bad reflection.

HDPeeT

06-13-08, 10:54 PM

Keep those pictures coming asystole13. :)

syncros

06-13-08, 11:03 PM

Wow! Can't wait to get my hands on one of those!:eek: Beautiful, glad to see they starting to get the 151's to customers.

Make sure that table can handle the TV's weight, we don't want you to have any mishaps on Friday the 13th.;)
(My first post)

Very easy to setup the stand and speakers. I will be running the break-in disc. It will stay on the kitchen table so we can continue to watch the other TV.

I have a catherdal ceiling with all 15 recessed lights on so that is why the bad reflection.

chadmak09

06-13-08, 11:03 PM

Oh god,
Those Elite pictures hurt like a knife!!!
Heaven help ME!!!

Now that there are elite pictures, Nobody cares about my 6020 pictures. :(

fallenbuddha

06-13-08, 11:04 PM

Excuse me, but the people making the biggest fuss over Elite online sales are those interested in acquiring these units without being left in the lurch if any problems arise.

I go away for an afternoon to play in a golf tournament and end up missing all the fun with the warranty discussion. :D

Actually, I'm not really interested at picking at this scab, since people seem to have gotten emotional over the issue, but I do want to make the point that I agree with ProShooter that the people making the fuss over the Elites are those of us who wish to purchase them and finding few options other than Best Buy/Magnolia, not any dealer wishing to cash in. I would love to be within the 250 miles of Robert, but that's not going to happen out here in Martinez, California. In the end, after doing considerable research, including reading through Pioneer's warranty language and various California and U.S. warranty statutes, as well as doing a search for the "authorized dealers" in my area, I decided that I'd rather go with a dealer I trust rather than those on Pioneer's list, which I now find is likely out of date. If, God forbid, my 111 ends up requiring warranty service, I am certain that my dealer will step up and help out as needed.

BC Beagle

06-13-08, 11:11 PM

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151f.jpg

I have a catherdal ceiling with all 15 recessed lights on so that is why the bad reflection.

I love that hanging just above a Pio Elite PDP is a plate identifying the goal to "Live Simply" :p

jdmi

06-13-08, 11:12 PM

I ordered a 151 from my local specialty dealer. (I'm so envious of those who are already getting them!) I've been in the store a lot to check out the 150 they have on display, and every time I come in, they say, "Make yourself at home." I would bring in some discs, plop myself down with the remote, and play with all the settings for as long as I liked. Are they the most knowledgeable A/V people I've met? No. But do they want to make me happy, and do they really care about my business? Yes. Sure I could have gotten a better deal online, but helping my local dealer and my local economy was important to me, as was having a local staff to help with delivery/setup and any issues that might arise. The extra service, convenience, and community support are worth the higher price IMHO.

asystole13

06-13-08, 11:22 PM

Here's the back & side panels. I will get some menu pics up.

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151g.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151h.jpg

ptlurking

06-13-08, 11:27 PM

...So I dismissed the buzz issue as just "picky" buyers.

Until now.

When I am watching a movie on my new 6020 and it gets silent, I can hear the buzz clearly, And when I see scenes with High Bright Whites it gets even louder to the point that I hate it when a bright scene comes because i think to myself "here it comes".
I just don't like being distracted like that when watching a movie.
I thought that maybe it was a speaker problem so I unplugged the speakers but it did not stop. It is definitly coming from the front of the screen. Its louder in the front than the back.
Maybe it will get better after break-in. I sure hope so.

Sorry folks...to me this is a deal killer.
I don't care how nice the picture looks...if the set buzzes...I aint buying it!:mad:

antennahead

06-13-08, 11:33 PM

I have always heard the buzz on a plasma before and have not thought anything of it. Funny thing is I have never heard the irregular buzz on the Pioneer yet. We have had customers have the buzzing problem before and had the unit sent back to our showroom and there was no buzzing at all when we hooked it up. I don't know what it comes from but it happens in some places and not in others.

"We have had customers have the buzzing problem before and had the unit sent back to our showroom and there was no buzzing at all when we hooked it up."

Is there any possibility the quality of the electricity could be affecting this? Those with clean or "power conditioned" power not experiencing it, and dirty power causing the units to buzz? Would explain why a unit would buzz at a customer's home and not buzz back on the showroom, assuming clean and dirty power was involved. I have one piece of electronic equipment in my computer room that buzzes like crazy, clearly heard through the speakers if I have a group of lights in the house on "dimmer".

John

rougebear

06-13-08, 11:38 PM

Here are some more pictures to emphasize how the blacks disappear into the bezel.
I made sure that I took these pictures when there was an actual input being displayed (instead of after the 30second pixel shutoff) These pictures were taken with in a totally dark room. One shot with the camera flash, One without.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture016.jpg?t=1213406641
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture017.jpg?t=1213406759

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture008-1.jpg?t=1213406809
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture009-1.jpg?t=1213406827

Chad I don't know if you have Edward Scissor Hands or Chicken Little but could you post the same shots I did below with the lights off using Game mode. The camera I used was a nikon coolpix all settings to auto and no flash. Thanks.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm36/jkv4/moviepics002.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm36/jkv4/moviepics003.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm36/jkv4/moviepics010.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm36/jkv4/moviepics013.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm36/jkv4/moviepics019.jpg

ROMAN O

06-13-08, 11:38 PM

I think it might have something to do with the intuitive, if not necessarily accurate, belief that the longer the trip, and the greater the incidence of handling, the greater the risk of something going awry to break the glass or affect some other component of the set - a sudden swerve of the truck that unsettles the cargo, running over potholes in the road, etc.

Correct

Audiguy3

06-13-08, 11:39 PM

Wow Stunning pics

ROMAN O

06-13-08, 11:41 PM

This is definitely good news that some are starting to show up early, we will see if that is true for all dealers.

Nambit

06-13-08, 11:52 PM

Very easy to setup the stand and speakers. I will be running the break-in disc. It will stay on the kitchen table so we can continue to watch the other TV.

Oh man, congratulations! It's good to see a familiar TV (I had a pro-150FD).
I hate to ask, but care to comment on any buzzing? My 150 had it pretty bad
but I am curious to know if the 151 is better. I'm actually looking into the 141
in August but I'm curious to know how the successor to the 150 is doing.

Damn, it's nice to see this beauty again, though. Folks just don't understand
how nice the stand that comes with the TV is. It sits on it so beautifully. :)

I can't wait for more screens and feedback. Thanks for the posts.

xrox

06-13-08, 11:52 PM

"We have had customers have the buzzing problem before and had the unit sent back to our showroom and there was no buzzing at all when we hooked it up."

Is there any possibility the quality of the electricity could be affecting this? Those with clean or "power conditioned" power not experiencing it, and dirty power causing the units to buzz? Would explain why a unit would buzz at a customer's home and not buzz back on the showroom, assuming clean and dirty power was involved. I have one piece of electronic equipment in my computer room that buzzes like crazy, clearly heard through the speakers if I have a group of lights in the house on "dimmer". It could be room acoustics, air pressure, variations in hearing ability....etc. But more than likely it is due to OCD. And if you truly understand OCD as I do, you know how damaging it can be to life's enjoyments such as Kuro.

Thankfully, even though I have OCD, I also have a CRT that sounds like a hair trimmer so the 151FD will seem quiet in comparison.

This forum and OCD don't mix very well. This is usually what happens:

1 - you read this forum (buzz,trails...etc)
2 - subconciously you are always looking for it
3- once you notice it you always notice it
4 - once you always notice it you focus on it
5 - once you focus on it you're screwed

rlarsen462

06-13-08, 11:56 PM

htwaits

06-13-08, 11:59 PM

When I go to my local store, I politely turn the sales person away so not to waste their time.I've been doing that since early 2004. The only exception was recently when I ask a BB sales person if they would match a price at the local Fry's Electronics store. I was shopping for a relative.

After three managers up their "command" chain, and three different "car salesmen" pitches it was finally determined by a slightly older kid that they would match the local price if the item was in stock. I don't buy cars that way, so I'm sure not going to buy a TV for someone else that way.

I'm sure they were using their "sales training" to the best of their combined abilities. :rolleyes:

For the record, my HDTV purchases have been at Magnolia Audio-Video at $700 over a price I could have had through a Samsung emplyee (no complaints), and Invision where Roman gave me outstanding service(no complaints).

Cheers :)

ROMAN O

06-14-08, 12:03 AM

Disclaimer: Roman is not with Invision anymore. Ht just had to make sure there is no confusion for new members :)

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 12:05 AM

I hate it when a bright scene comes because i think to myself "here it comes".

I was thinking what movies would I know where white covers most of the screen. Then you mentioned the break-in DVD, oh ok, I now understand!

Off the top of my head, I can only think of a few 007 movies where James goes down a white snow covered mountain. Usually there's funky music playing while all that is happening. Other than that, I can't think of too many movies where I would know where white would cover the screen.

jet757f

06-14-08, 12:06 AM

Oh god,
Those Elite pictures hurt like a knife!!!
Heaven help ME!!!

Now that there are elite pictures, Nobody cares about my 6020 pictures. :(

I like yours better never could get used to the speakers on the side.

manuc

06-14-08, 12:09 AM

manuc

06-14-08, 12:11 AM

Confucious say: "Neva get rid of old TV until new one set up and workie"

:p

bob

I think my wife has been talking to this confucious person COZ THATS WHAT SHE SAID - along buy from best buy!

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 12:13 AM

spongebob

06-14-08, 12:17 AM

Nambit

06-14-08, 12:17 AM

I like yours better never could get used to the speakers on the side.
But if you remove the speakers, you're stuck with a stand that exposes a
gap with cables and such. Also, the stand elevates the TV by 3+ inches
which makes it even harder to sit at eye level with normal tables. I barely
found a table that was 18 inches high for an elite TV to get proper eye level.
With the non-elite's elevated stand, I'd need a table of max 15 inches height
to get proper viewing. 60 inch TVs are damned huge!! Of course, this all doesn't
matter if you mount the TV on a wall.

(PS - not to diss the 6020... just figured I'd point that out)

asystole13

06-14-08, 12:21 AM

Remote Pics. Not the brightest backlite remote I've ever seen.

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151i.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151k.jpg

manuc

06-14-08, 12:25 AM

Correct
Originally Posted by View Post
I think it might have something to do with the intuitive, if not necessarily accurate, belief that the longer the trip, and the greater the incidence of handling, the greater the risk of something going awry to break the glass or affect some other component of the set - a sudden swerve of the truck that unsettles the cargo, running over potholes in the road, etc.
Correct

Correct

The issue isnt a cracked screen - thats easy. The issue is damage you cannot see.

Electronic components in car electronics are especially designed to handle road vibration. There is mechanical stress caused by repeated contraction and expansion that eventually causes these components to fail. I know this, Im a mechanical engineer - Ive studied this.

What I dont know is if 2500 miles is 2250 miles too many. Almost makes me wonder if the 250 mile elite rule has anything to do with this.

Am going to do some more research on this over the weekend. Am scheduled to talk to the dealer again on Monday when they will have a tracking number for me.

A couple of people have pm'ed me and shared exactly the same experience. Dealers need to be honest about where a unit is shipping from if the buyer asks for the information. In my case I didnt go with the online dealer because they had a better price. I went with them because they have excellent ratings which tells me they care about their customers and have stood by them.

Someone had posted about buying from a local store to support local businesses because they care - I used to believe the same was possible online and one could look at the dealers reputation to gauge them. I hope Im not proved wrong.

htwaits

06-14-08, 12:25 AM

Disclaimer: Roman is not with Invision anymore. Ht just had to make sure there is no confusion for new members :)Right. :)

sereeninvision

06-14-08, 12:26 AM

Disclaimer: Roman is not with Invision anymore. Ht just had to make sure there is no confusion for new members :)

Thank you for that quote.

dashculpepper

06-14-08, 12:26 AM

Sorry folks...to me this is a deal killer.
I don't care how nice the picture looks...if the set buzzes...I aint buying it!:mad:
No buzz in my 6020

chadmak09

06-14-08, 12:28 AM

It could be room acoustics, air pressure, variations in hearing ability....etc. But more than likely it is due to OCD. And if you truly understand OCD as I do, you know how damaging it can be to life's enjoyments such as Kuro.

Thankfully, even though I have OCD, I also have a CRT that sounds like a hair trimmer so the 151FD will seem quiet in comparison.

This forum and OCD don't mix very well. This is usually what happens:

1 - you read this forum (buzz,trails...etc)
2 - subconciously you are always looking for it
3- once you notice it you always notice it
4 - once you always notice it you focus on it
5 - once you focus on it you're screwed

The fact that the 5080hd and the Phillips plasma I have do not Buzz like this when hooked up to the same surge protector and in the exact same position in my living room makes me think it is not a power or room acoustics thing. Granted, the 6020 is 10 inches bigger, but I don't think thats why. I have read numerous threads of 5080's with a buzz problem.
I have all carpet floor also.
I am pretty positive that this is not the typical plasma "buzz" inherit to the technology.

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 12:30 AM

Hi Guys and Gals,

I just got home with the 151fd and started to set it up. I will put up some pics in a little while.

Wow, I think your the first one to get the 151FD on this forum! Can't wait to see your pixs. How's the buzz on it?

I guess we will have a Elite G9 thread started pretty soon!!!

asystole13

06-14-08, 12:31 AM

Oh man, congratulations! It's good to see a familiar TV (I had a pro-150FD).
I hate to ask, but care to comment on any buzzing? My 150 had it pretty bad
but I am curious to know if the 151 is better.

I haven't played any video yet but while using the menus. I do hear a slight buzz but it's only when I put my head behind the back of the set. In front, I can't hear it.

Nambit

06-14-08, 12:32 AM

The fact that the 5080hd and the Phillips plasma I have do not Buzz like this when hooked up to the same surge protector and in the exact same position in my living room makes me think it is not a power or room acoustics thing.
I have all carpet floor also.
I am pretty positive that this is not the typical plasma "buzz" inherit to the technology.

2 things that you must realize are new to you:

1. Your TV is now 1080P.
2. Your TV is now 60 inches. (HUGE)

Believe me, this is a dynamic duo in terms of Panel and Power supply stress.

My 4280 buzzes a lot less than my 150FD did because:
1. It's 720P
2. It's 42 inches.

ROMAN O

06-14-08, 12:37 AM

The issue isnt a cracked screen - thats easy. The issue is damage you cannot see.

Electronic components in car electronics are especially designed to handle road vibration. There is mechanical stress caused by repeated contraction and expansion that eventually causes these components to fail. I know this, Im a mechanical engineer - Ive studied this.

It could be but never seen this as a concern. But either way just contact your dealer to make sure you are happy.

p59teitel

06-14-08, 12:37 AM

Of course, this all doesn't
matter if you mount the TV on a wall.

Or you could decide it's hacksaw time (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14051843#post14051843)!

chadmak09

06-14-08, 12:39 AM

Maybe I can start wearing headphones or earplugs (joke) when I surf the internet on my PS3. That way it won't be so annoying.
And I could start listening to the volume real loud so it will drown it out.

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 12:43 AM

Oh god,
Those Elite pictures hurt like a knife!!!
Heaven help ME!!!

Now that there are elite pictures, Nobody cares about my 6020 pictures. :(

I care!

Nambit

06-14-08, 12:46 AM

I haven't played any video yet but while using the menus. I do hear a slight buzz but it's only when I put my head behind the back of the set. In front, I can't hear it.

Good so far. I'm kinda surprised poor chadmak09 has issues with his TV. I
guess we'll see this variance again in 9g's. Let's just hope his case is an
isolated one and that it can somehow be resolved.

So, how about more pics. :)

Aetherhole

06-14-08, 12:47 AM

I concur! More pictures please! :D

asystole13

06-14-08, 12:49 AM

Should I start a owner's thread for the elite so I can post my pics in there. It seems that they are getting buried in this thread because it very busy.

BdoUK

06-14-08, 12:50 AM

Should I start a owner's thread for the elite so I can post my pics in there. It seems that they are getting buried in this thread because it very busy.

Sounds like a good idea to me! Thanks for the pictures you've posted so far.

ROMAN O

06-14-08, 12:52 AM

Should I start a owner's thread for the elite so I can post my pics in there. It seems that they are getting buried in this thread because it very busy.

Yes you deserve it!! :) Mods can change if needed

Aetherhole

06-14-08, 12:52 AM

Errr, I JUST made one! :D

Nambit

06-14-08, 12:52 AM

Maybe I can start wearing headphones or earplugs when I surf the internet on my PS3. That way it won't be so annoying.
And I could start listening to the volume real loud so it will drown it out.
Seriously, if it's that bad then report it to whom you purchased it from. I find
dealers have better luck with manufacturers than the consumer. You can try
pioneer if you want, but I could dig up an old response from a regional manager
of some sort that isn't pleasant. They do suggest, however, that there is a
point where the buzzing is a serviceable issue so perhaps that applies to you.
So long as your speakers are on, mention how far you sit from the TV and the
volume the TV is at. It might help. I really hope the best for you man.

PS - post more pics too. I'm just as interested in your 6020 as I am in the
elite when it comes to pics. :)

Kurisu2

06-14-08, 12:54 AM

Remote Pics. Not the brightest backlite remote I've ever seen.

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151i.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151k.jpg

Hey, it's a Kuro remote!

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

xb1032

06-14-08, 01:05 AM

I love that hanging just above a Pio Elite PDP is a plate identifying the goal to "Live Simply" :p

I noticed that and got a kick out of that as well. That plate would be better suited in a pic with a Vizio instead :p.

Tayja

06-14-08, 01:07 AM

Here is the unpacking of the 151.

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151a.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151b.jpg

http://www.twhq.com/picture/151c.jpg

More to come!

sock needed......:D
i need more Kuro Elite porn...

FocusedOne

06-14-08, 01:10 AM

I picked my PRO-151FD today. After watching a couple of the Planet Earth Blu-rays (I plan on starting the break-in dvd soon, but couldn't resist) I am left amazed. This is my first Kuro and it is head and shoulders above anything I've ever experienced. I had the same sort of visual epiphany tonight that I remember experiencing when I first saw HD content in 2004. The depth of the image is remarkable and breathtaking.

I can't wait to continue to read here and learn about how I should tweak my settings, but the image right out of the box is stunning. I am a really anal and particular person, and I can say without a doubt that this display lives up to all it's hype and then some.

Just some little observations:

I thought the display was packaged very well, extremely reinforced. I can understand the larger sizes being more prone to breakage, but it would still have take a pretty significant hit, imo.

Putting the sticker on the bezel is dumb. It's like saying, "here, have some adhesive residue to clean off your tv right away." Not a big deal, just funny to me on such a nice tv.

The remote, while long, is very nice. Brushed aluminum face with red backlighting.

Haven't played with optimum mode, yet. I watched in movie and standard. I lack the technical prowess that many here have, but I can't wait to try some settings from DNice and others. If the picture is this good right away, I can't even imagine the possibilities. This is by far the most 3D image I have ever witnessed.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/loraxila/DSC00619.jpg

Tayja

06-14-08, 01:16 AM

asystole13

06-14-08, 01:17 AM

Ok, I started one

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14080916&posted=1#post14080916

FocusedOne

06-14-08, 01:20 AM

It has a very slight buzz, virtually inaudible with any audio on. When the room was dead silent, I could hear it only when I got up close to the display.

My sammy 5053 buzzed like a neon sign in a bar.

Vashti

06-14-08, 01:32 AM

Ok here are some more Pictures as promised.
I know that its impossible to make totally accurate comparisions from pictures on a computer. (but it sure is fun)
I set all modes (performance, movie, Standard, etc) at the factory default before I took these pictures.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture001.jpg?t=1213401390
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture002-1.jpg?t=1213401431
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture003-1.jpg?t=1213401454
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture004-1.jpg?t=1213401471
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture005-1.jpg?t=1213401493
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture006-1.jpg?t=1213401518
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Picture007-1.jpg?t=1213401544

:D:D:D

Chad, thanks for this post! It's one of the more illuminating in the last several pages (gone 22 hours and it will take 22 more to read all this warranty debate - gotta learn to skim)

I had guessed on the basis of many comments before that I would like only the movie setting - but that optimum setting looks pretty great to me. And hell, no setting can keep Ben Kingsley's eyes from being a force of nature. That man can ACT (even in dynamic) Congrats on the new set!

Waboman

06-14-08, 01:36 AM

Hi Guys and Gals,

I just got home with the 151fd and started to set it up. I will put up some pics in a little while.

Congrats man! Time to rock out to your beautiful new Elite.http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/images/smilies/action-smiley-035.gif

fallenbuddha

06-14-08, 01:37 AM

What I dont know is if 2500 miles is 2250 miles too many. Almost makes me wonder if the 250 mile elite rule has anything to do with this.

So...the sets just magically appear at distribution and/or dealer warehouses?

I realize that Roman usually makes this point. Figured I'd scoop him this time. :)

jet757f

06-14-08, 01:43 AM

Errr, I JUST made one! :D

I hate to tell you but they already had a 9g non elite thread and a 9g kuro elite thread. Now we have two of each.:confused:

ROMAN O

06-14-08, 01:46 AM

I hate to tell you but they already had a 9g non elite thread and a 9g kuro elite thread. Now we have two of each.:confused:

One will survive and one wont :)

Vashti

06-14-08, 01:46 AM

It could be room acoustics, air pressure, variations in hearing ability....etc. But more than likely it is due to OCD. And if you truly understand OCD as I do, you know how damaging it can be to life's enjoyments such as Kuro.

Thankfully, even though I have OCD, I also have a CRT that sounds like a hair trimmer so the 151FD will seem quiet in comparison.

This forum and OCD don't mix very well. This is usually what happens:

1 - you read this forum (buzz,trails...etc)
2 - subconciously you are always looking for it
3- once you notice it you always notice it
4 - once you always notice it you focus on it
5 - once you focus on it you're screwed

I had set a private goal for myself to understand an xrox post before I hit my 1000th post. I'm early!!! There's not a single concept in here that I don't understand. ;):D:o

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 01:50 AM

... I'm kinda surprised poor chadmak09 has issues with his TV. I guess we'll see this variance again in 9g's. Let's just hope his case is an isolated one and that it can somehow be resolved.......

but unfortune nambit there have been several other 6020 owners already even D nice too reporting the buzz. seems very much in line with the 8g buzzing problem from the front panel as it varied from set to set, some get no buzz, some low and some more noticeable and problematic buzzing.

Aetherhole

06-14-08, 01:54 AM

Honestly, I don't care which thread gets closed down, but for the record I posted the "Elite" one first. :)

It's all the same to me, though - a place where I can share one another's enjoyment of the new Elites!

Vashti

06-14-08, 01:55 AM

Will you folks still respect me if I admit that asystole and FocusedOne's pictures brought a tear to my eye? Congratulations, you guys! Keep the pics coming.

chadmak09

06-14-08, 01:56 AM

I was thinking what movies would I know where white covers most of the screen. Then you mentioned the break-in DVD, oh ok, I now understand!

Off the top of my head, I can only think of a few 007 movies where James goes down a white snow covered mountain. Usually there's funky music playing while all that is happening. Other than that, I can't think of too many movies where I would know where white would cover the screen.

Actually its during bright scenes not whites only. And the Break-in disk is not a movie.
In fact, Its really not so bothersome with the break-in DVD in. When it is bothersome to me is the switch from a dark scene to a brigher scene. The sudden change in low pitch buzz to high pitch buzz makes it much more noticable to me. If it were just a constant faint buzz it wouldn't be too bad for me becasue after hearing it for a bit I would forget about it.
But when the pitch is constantly going high then low, its hard to forget about. During movies the sound drowns it out unless it is a silent scene. So its only bothersome about a third of the time. But when I browse the internet on my PS3, it is very bothersome. It sounds like I am playing a musical instrument with my keyboard becasue the pitch changes every time I change pages. When I scroll down thru this thread it goes wheeee oooowheeeooo (lol, best I can describe it) as the dark pictures i posted scroll thru the screen and the screen goes dark, bright,dark then bright again.
But I am going to wait and see i it decreases any after break-in. Who knows, maybe it will.

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 02:01 AM

I used to think the exact same way.
When I had my 5080, I saw the Buzz poll thread on here and thought to myself "the buzz is not that bad". And the buzz on my 5080 was so light that you really had to get close and listen, but you could hear it slightly if you really tried. So I dismissed the buzz issue as just "picky" buyers.

Until now.

When I am watching a movie on my new 6020 and it gets silent, I can hear the buzz clearly, And when I see scenes with High Bright Whites it gets even louder to the point that I hate it when a bright scene comes because i think to myself "here it comes".
I just don't like being distracted like that when watching a movie.
I thought that maybe it was a speaker problem so I unplugged the speakers but it did not stop. It is definitly coming from the front of the screen. Its louder in the front than the back.
Maybe it will get better after break-in. I sure hope so.

chad sorry you have the buzz problem. it certainly sounds like the same as some 8g owners had. the main buzzing coming out striaght directly from the panel and no acoustic treaments are going to fix that. although sitting off center may help some.

you definately need to call Pioneer and have them send a tech out asap. even if they say it is normal it needs to be done so they will have more notification about the problem. i do not remember any 8g owners who noticed a reduction after their sets broken in. Maybe Robert can help with Pioneer if it needs exchanging.

fallenbuddha

06-14-08, 02:05 AM

Actually its during bright scenes not whites only. And the Break-in disk is not a movie.
In fact, Its really not so bothersome with the break-in DVD in. When it is bothersome to me is the switch from a dark scene to a brigher scene. The sudden change in low pitch buzz to high pitch buzz makes it much more noticable to me. If it were just a constant faint buzz it wouldn't be too bad for me becasue after hearing it for a bit I would forget about it.
But when the pitch is constantly going high then low, its hard to forget about. During movies the sound drowns it out unless it is a silent scene. So its only bothersome about a third of the time. But when I browse the internet on my PS3, it is very bothersome. It sounds like I am playing a musical instrument with my keyboard becasue the pitch changes every time I change pages. When I scroll down thru this thread it goes wheeee oooowheeeooo (lol, best I can describe it) as the dark pictures i posted scroll thru the screen and the screen goes dark, bright,dark then bright again.
But I am going to wait and see i it decreases any after break-in. Who knows, maybe it will.

Sounds like the gods were spiteful in mysterious ways. Perhaps you might want to try going monotheistic for a while, just so that you can log in more quality lobbying time before one deity instead of splitting your attention praying to the many.

Vashti

06-14-08, 02:06 AM

Somebody did recently. I don't remember who. It struck me because it was the first time I remember somebody saying that the buzz had radically decreased. I'm hoping a wall mount will solve this problem since at least last year, the buzz was pretty directional. I don't know if you can try that Chad. Probably simpler to just move over a foot. I'm a bit worried as I have all hardwood floors. Any buzz will be amplified (no rugs because of roommate's allergies)

manuc

06-14-08, 02:07 AM

Correct

So...the sets just magically appear at distribution and/or dealer warehouses?

I realize that Roman usually makes this point. Figured I'd scoop him this time. :)

No they dont magically appear - but they dont necessarily travel cross country either. I can only assume that ports on both coasts is where tv's come into the country if imported.

I also assume pioneer takes more care when shipping rigs full of their tv's compared to the shipping companies that deal with retail delivery.

I was under the impression the Kuro's are assembled in Southern California. Anyone know if that true? If so, are they also assembled anywhere else in the country? Did the set go from california to atlanta only to make the trip back?

Lots of assumptions I know and Im open to having them shot down - just dont want to worry and regret my decision after waiting so long and spending so much.

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 02:14 AM

Actually its during bright scenes not whites only.

Do you have your set at break-in settings? I think the contrast is up higher than when it's set for regular video watching.

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 02:20 AM

No they dont magically appear - but they dont necessarily travel cross country either. I can only assume that ports on both coasts is where tv's come into the country if imported.

I also assume pioneer takes more care when shipping rigs full of their tv's compared to the shipping companies that deal with retail delivery.

I was under the impression the Kuro's are assembled in Southern California. Anyone know if that true? If so, are they also assembled anywhere else in the country? Did the set go from california to atlanta only to make the trip back?

Lots of assumptions I know and Im open to having them shot down - just dont want to worry and regret my decision after waiting so long and spending so much.

yes all the Kuro/Kuro Elites are assembled in CA and then sent to various Pioneer distributors around the country..

My Kuro Elite(s) were air freighted from a Denver, CO Pioneer distribution center to me in MS. the airport is 5 miles from my house so it had a short trucking voyage compared to the air miles. the first one came with big time cracks in the glass and the second one came pixel perfect and clean glass.

HDPeeT

06-14-08, 02:23 AM

No they dont magically appear - but they dont necessarily travel cross country either. I can only assume that ports on both coasts is where tv's come into the country if imported.

I also assume pioneer takes more care when shipping rigs full of their tv's compared to the shipping companies that deal with retail delivery.

I was under the impression the Kuro's are assembled in Southern California. Anyone know if that true? If so, are they also assembled anywhere else in the country? Did the set go from california to atlanta only to make the trip back?

Lots of assumptions I know and Im open to having them shot down - just dont want to worry and regret my decision after waiting so long and spending so much.

I don't think the long distance really makes much difference to whether or not your panel gets damaged in shipping, once it's secured in the truck, it's pretty safe. When they're shipping across the country, they aren't going to be driving over dirt back roads, it's all smooth highway driving. I think a most of the damage occurs when the boxes are being loaded and unloaded by careless individuals, and blind/retarded fork-lift operators driving into the boxes.

manuc

06-14-08, 02:37 AM

yes all the Kuro/Kuro Elites are assembled in CA and then sent to various Pioneer distributors around the country..

My Kuro Elite(s) were air freighted from a Denver, CO Pioneer distribution center to me in MS. the airport is 5 miles from my house so it had a short trucking voyage compared to the air miles. the first one came with big time cracks in the glass and the second one came pixel perfect and clean glass.

So the TV headed to me will have made a full round trip of the country. Wow!

creemail

06-14-08, 02:38 AM

Chad,
Which settings do you prefer? I believe Movie looks the most natural...

Chris

LKDog

06-14-08, 03:02 AM

That is bad news that the buzz issue has persisted into this year. Here is over 50 pages discussing this issue.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949003

As far as I can tell, no one who had this problem and called in for service ever had it fixed. I was just about to pull the trigger on a 150 last year, and just couldn't go forward spending this amount of money and risking this problem. I was hoping it would be addressed in the new models. I am very disappointed.

Correct. There is not a Pioneer Service tech fix. Do not waste your time on a service call.
Pioneer officially considers the buzzing which is present to varying degrees from the front of set (on an apparent continuum from inaudible to audible at 20+ feet) as all normal and inherent in the technology. They will not authorize a replacement and no one has ever had a Service Tech do anything to make the buzz go away in the history of service calls.

When I dealt with Pioneer Service Managers who had my case the only advice they gave me was to angle the unit slightly up by placing something under the stand (rubber spacer) which might direct the buzz above your head and you may notice it less. Alternately some people mount the unit at an angle that helps.
It is directional for most people from directly at eye level in front of set.
Mine was diffuse from anywhere in room.

It does not exist to an audible degree in some units.
It exist to only a small degree at close proximity in others.
It exists to a larger degree in other units.
Most people do not really care about it.

It does not bother some people at all even though they hear it.
Some people cannot hear it even though it exists on their unit.

It has nothing to do with room treatment ( I have a very high end audio setup with extensive sound diffusion and absorption).

It has nothing to do with power delivery or your electricity current in your environment.
I have dedicated lines with rock solid power and line filters.

It does have a lot to do with your general level of ambient noise and your hearing.
Low ambient noise and even decent hearing and it might then be a problem if you happen to have one that buzzes. (Everyone could hear my buzz in my setup FWIW).

You will not hear a buzz in any showroom, of course, due to high ambient noise.

It does not improve with break in.

It is likely not an issue for most people. It bothered me FWIW, but that is just my opinion and my right as a consumer. I do not have any agenda at all about Pioneer. Clearly the best PQ and a wonderful viewing experience.

It sounds like the buzz issue is pretty much what it was with the 2007 models.

Good luck. My suggestion if you like the set and cannot return it is to try different stand height/angle setups or mounting and enjoy the set.

I am also disappointed like OaklandRobb. Not sure if I am going to try another Kuro or get a Panasonic, or try one of the better LCD's. I am not a videophile like many here, but do appreciate the natural presentation of plasma in general over LCD, and can discern the black level and contrast of the Kuros over the others.
If I choose to get a 9G from an online dealer it will be with the full understanding that it might have a buzz that I will be able to hear and I will have already decided that I am willing to live with it.

B and M's will usually take returns so that would be your safest bet if you want that option.

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 03:17 AM

I came home tonight and there were two calls waiting for me...both from Showcase. The message was that there was some very pressing information they wanted to talk to me about the 151FD. And that it was important that I contact them ASAP.

Unfortunately it's going to have to wait till I wake up on Saturday before I can call back. The pressing urgency almost makes it sound like if I don't call back right away, that the set that's being held for me will go to someone else. I'm sure it will still be waiting for me as the sales person said in the 2nd message that I could call back on Sat and Sun during normal business hours.

So I probably won't get delivery on Saturday as there's probably too little time to arrange that.

Looks like soon I'll be moving over to the Elite owners thread!!!

Dawgneck

06-14-08, 03:23 AM

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 03:34 AM

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 03:44 AM

Ok,

I have the 150-FD and of course I would like to know how big of a difference there is between it and the 151-FD, and if I should upgrade.

Can someone who owns the 150-FD and has seen/ tinkered with the 151-FD kindly give us a comparison?

Of course I'd like to know how drastic/slight the black level differences are, HMG differences, buzz, etc.

BTW, I've owned the 150-FD for almost 1 year now and I have absolutely no buzz. My monitor is on a wall mount which is approx 2 1/2 feet from the wall. I strongly believe the closer to the wall your monitor is, the louder the buzz. Thanks in advance.

may take awhile as there are only 2 pro151 owners so far :) and dont think they had Pro150s.

as for any difference in the buzz well that varies with each set, some have no buzz, some a low or little and some a noticeable/problematic buzz issue on the 8g models and already being reported on the 9g too.

IF you have a Pro150 that does not buzz I would recommend keeping it. if you got a Pro151 that does have the buzz issue any slight amount of pq increase would not be worth that problem. it's different if you can just afford to get a new one or sell the Pro150 easily and also have a local dealer who would exchange the new Pro151 easily if it did have the buzz issue, so your choice depending on your situation.

jlaavenger

06-14-08, 04:47 AM

chadmak09

06-14-08, 05:47 AM

Do you have your set at break-in settings? I think the contrast is up higher than when it's set for regular video watching.

No, I have the break-in settings set for Standard mode. I don't use standard so I am just leaving the break-in settings in standard mode.
When I get home and turn off the break-in disk, I switch to movie mode, And it reverts back to the settings I am using for movies, cable, etc.
So all I have to do is switch back to standard mode and pop in the break-in DVD when I go to sleep, leave for work, or any other time I am not watching the TV.

chadmak09

06-14-08, 05:51 AM

Chad,
Which settings do you prefer? I believe Movie looks the most natural...

Chris

Movie definitly.
And to be honest, I actually like the optimum mode.

corpfan1

06-14-08, 06:17 AM

Hi,

I am new to the forum and an thinking about buying the new 6020 or the Elite version.

I would really like some help with making the decision between the two sets. Although price is not a major issue, I don't want to waste extra money if the extra features are not worth it.

Here are some things I would like to know / am concerned about:

1. What are the differences between the 9G Elite and Non-Elite models...or is there a published list of the differences somewhere?

2. I have heard about this "BUZZ" issue over and over. I have read the posts here and admit I am concerned about this. I don't want a suspenseful scene of Alien or another great "quiet" movie ruined. Do you just "send it back" if the buzz is excessive?

3. I have started to hear about the "green fringing" issue more and more - is this a real problem? Is it "personalized" to each individual's eyes?

4. I live in an apartment - would it be tough to get the Kuro in and set up?

5. I am in Canada. Any fellow Canadians here who might suggest a date when this reaches the stores here and what stores might be the best to buy from for such a high end product? (I am in the Toronto area).

Thanks - I have been reading the threads here for the last few days and am eagerly learning about the new TVs. I have never had a plasma and want a top-notch set that will be with me for 10+ years as my primary or secondary TV down the road. I really appreciate all the info here at the forums and can't wait to communicate more - any responses to my concerns/questions above are MUCH APPRECIATED! :)

Ken Ross

06-14-08, 06:57 AM

"We have had customers have the buzzing problem before and had the unit sent back to our showroom and there was no buzzing at all when we hooked it up."

Is there any possibility the quality of the electricity could be affecting this? Those with clean or "power conditioned" power not experiencing it, and dirty power causing the units to buzz? Would explain why a unit would buzz at a customer's home and not buzz back on the showroom, assuming clean and dirty power was involved. I have one piece of electronic equipment in my computer room that buzzes like crazy, clearly heard through the speakers if I have a group of lights in the house on "dimmer".

John

I think it's more a function of room acoustics than anything else. I've never had a plasma buzz to any degree that I found objectionable. Yes, if you go very close and there's no noise in the room you can hear some buzzing with bright scenes, but not at viewing distance and certainly not with any degree of ambient noise. So I suppose if you have a very sound reflective room, there could be a problem...particularly if you have acute hearing.

Ken Ross

06-14-08, 07:06 AM

So the pix answer the question about the Elite's bezel. It remains glossy like the 150, but it appears the base is now glossy too. It used to be a matte finish...unless the pictures are deceiving.

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 07:56 AM

I think it's more a function of room acoustics than anything else. I've never had a plasma buzz to any degree that I found objectionable. Yes, if you go very close and there's no noise in the room you can hear some buzzing with bright scenes, but not at viewing distance and certainly not with any degree of ambient noise. So I suppose if you have a very sound reflective room, there could be a problem...particularly if you have acute hearing.

ken fortunately your two kuro plasmas do not have the noticeable buzz issue that many Kuro owners have as noted in the 8g buzz poll thread and also already noted by some 6020 owners. IF you had it is not a matter of room conditions and cannot be fixed with sound treatments as the buzz comes directly from the front panel and basically beams at the main front center viewing postion. So unless you put sound treatment in direct view of the screen and your sitting position......duh i know, but no way to correct for it other then exchange and hope for a no/very low buzzer, well moving your viewing position away from center mid screen will also help somewhat. But what new Kuro/Kuro Elite owner wants to pay good money for their new Pioneer plasma and be told well Pioneer considers it to be within parameters and will not do anything to fix it but if it does bother you just move over and sit to the left or right of center and it will not bother you as much :(

spongebob

06-14-08, 09:43 AM

Besides clean power, how about using a Voltage Stabilizer?

I'd like a line voltage reading, including fluctuation.

bob

LTCJack

06-14-08, 09:46 AM

sunarf

06-14-08, 09:47 AM

Correct. There is not a Pioneer Service tech fix. Do not waste your time on a service call.
Pioneer officially considers the buzzing which is present to varying degrees from the front of set (on an apparent continuum from inaudible to audible at 20+ feet) as all normal and inherent in the technology. They will not authorize a replacement and no one has ever had a Service Tech do anything to make the buzz go away in the history of service calls.

If I choose to get a 9G from an online dealer it will be with the full understanding that it might have a buzz that I will be able to hear and I will have already decided that I am willing to live with it.

This is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE to me.

I wanted SO MUCH to pull the trigger on a 6020, but there is NO WAY IN HELL I will drop 4k on a TV that has a "known issue" (which Pio has already set up "parameters" for acceptance), and they won't do anything to fix it. I can't believe their "fixes" are to either angle it up so the buzzing goes over your head, or sit off to the side so it goes past you.....ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?!?

I have a VERY quiet room, so ANY buzzing will not work for me. I have two Panny plasmas right now and NEITHER of them buzzes.....NOT AT ALL.

I'm just not willing to take a chance that I MIGHT get a 6020 that DOESN'T buzz.

I will GLADLY sacrifice a little black level for a panel that is quiet.

spongebob

06-14-08, 09:48 AM

So the pix answer the question about the Elite's bezel. It remains glossy like the 150, but it appears the base is now glossy too. It used to be a matte finish...unless the pictures are deceiving.

Ken,

I thought the pics on page one looke more matte like? Wishful thinking!

bob

LKDog

06-14-08, 10:13 AM

Besides clean power, how about using a Voltage Stabilizer?

No. Been tried by many people.
Read above post or read the Buzz Poll thread.
Everything has been tried-trust me.
Best thing to do is mount it at an angle that reduces the impact or adjust the height of the unit on a stand by a couple millimeters.

My voltage did not vary and was on a dedicated line with several high end filters.
I am just one of many who tried several variations to see if it made any difference (different circuits, no filters, etc). Some guys took their unit to different houses.
No luck.
If it buzzes, it buzzes.

Like I said-most people do not care about it and accept it as a fact of life with Pioneer and to a lesser extent with plasmas. You may or may not be that type of person.

sbwtwo

06-14-08, 10:13 AM

I'll take a stab at a few of your questions.

1. There is no list of the differences between the Elites and Non-elites, but if you go to post one of this thread, at the very end of the post there are four pdf files. Open either the 111 or the 151 and look for the 'E' icon to the left of a particular feature (p.2 is where they really appear). That icon is supposed to indicate that the feature is exclusive to the Elite models.

2. It depends. Given that Pioneer thinks that buzz is a feature and not a bug, if the buzz is excessive for you and you purchased it from a local dealer, you may be able to swap it out for another set, hoping that the buzz on that set will be inaudible in your sensing range and environment. I would make sure I had that option specified at the time of the initial purchase.

3. I don't know nothin' 'bout no green fringing. Hopefully an expert here will take up that Q.

4. Back to the spec sheet, there are dimensions in and out of the box, including weight.

5. I am not Canadian, but I did play one on TV (well, it was part of my distance education program at Queens.) Some real Canadian will jump in with availability information, I'm sure.

LKDog

06-14-08, 10:19 AM

dashculpepper

06-14-08, 10:20 AM

"I'm just not willing to take a chance that I MIGHT get a 6020 that DOESN'T buzz.

I will GLADLY sacrifice a little black level for a panel that is quiet."

Well, there you go.........problem solved

FocusedOne

06-14-08, 10:24 AM

I have a VERY quiet room, so ANY buzzing will not work for me. I have two Panny plasmas right now and NEITHER of them buzzes.....NOT AT ALL.

I'm just not willing to take a chance that I MIGHT get a 6020 that DOESN'T buzz.

I will GLADLY sacrifice a little black level for a panel that is quiet.

I am just the opposite. I will GLADLY sacrifice a tiny amount of buzzing for the best PQ available. I had a 50PZ85U and while it was virtually silent, it's PQ was not even close to a Kuro.

I am young, extremely OCD and have excellent hearing - the small buzz I hear when the room is silent doesn't bother me at all. With any audio on, I am hard-pressed to hear it unless I get within a few feet of the set. With my surround on at a normal viewing distance, I didn't notice it at all. It is also a marked improvement over my last plasma (sammy 5053) which buzzed much louder. I was very panicked when I first bought my 5053 and contemplated returning it. My OCD raged and was fueled by reading about others with the same issue. In the end, I decided to live with it. Now, I am probably more conditioned to ignore it.

I am sure that these units will buzz to varying degrees, but I honestly feel like this is very normal plasma buzz and an overall improvement/lower buzz in general. The best solution I could recommend is surround sound - the experience with SS is so immersing that you will be quickly distracted even if you can faintly pick up any buzzing during quiet scenes.

In general, I am not going to watch my Kuro like a kitchen TV at low volumes - it will most often be viewed at night with surround in all of it's glory.

coltsfreak18

06-14-08, 10:24 AM

From the PDF (and a little editing on russwong's list) on the 151 Elite ONLY features:

- ISFccc

- Independent Gamma Control (R / G / B) for heightened color calibration

- Remote Control - Illuminated / Present Mode / Learning Mode

- A/V Selection Memory – 10 options for viewing preferences:
Optimum / Performance / Sports / Movie / PURE / Game /
Standard / ISF-Day / ISF-Night / ISF-Auto (PC input: only Standard)

- Advanced Picture-in-Picture (4 positions), Picture-side-Picture for use with Home Media Gallery & Broadcast (3 positions) and Still Picture capability

- Intelligent Mode (off/mode1/mode2)

- Picture Detail Settings* – DRE Picture (Off / High / Mid / Low),
Black Level (Off / On), ACL (Off / On), Enhancer Mode (1 / 2 / 3),
Gamma (1 / 2 / 3)

- Color Temperature Adjustment – 5 settings (High / Mid-High /
Mid / Mid-Low / Low)

-Color Temperature Manual Adjustment

- Color Management

- Color Space (1 / 2)

-Noise Reduction Settings – 3 DNR (Off / High / Mid / Low),
Field NR (Off / High / Mid / Low), Block NR (Off / On),
Mosquito NR (Off / On), Tuner NR (Off / On – for each channel)

- 3 DYC (Off / High / Mid / Low)
- I-P Mode (1/2/3)
- IR Repeater
- 2 year warranty

-Color Filter Pro versus Color Filter Plus (or something like that). Elite Color Filter for enhanced contrast in bright
environments

ptlurking

06-14-08, 10:32 AM

...Given that Pioneer thinks that buzz is a feature and not a bug...
LOL :D

I will continue sitting on the sidelines until there is a "BUZZ" consensus on the Elites.

FocusedOne

06-14-08, 10:33 AM

KNace

06-14-08, 11:03 AM

I just placed my order for a Pio 5020 with Robert and *********************. I have to give a nod and a hats off to all of the forum sponsors... the prices are very competitive and for me it really came down to Robert being located the closest to me here in NY. Thank you all and I look forward to getting the new Pio on WEDNESDAY!

hdmount

06-14-08, 11:05 AM

On Buzzing -
I second LKdog's assessment. The buzz "feature" is inherent to a particular panel and there is NOT a thing the service tech can do to reduce or eliminate the issue.
Speaking from experience, I had a Panasonic 37" Plasma in my living room in 2004, and Mr Buzz said I am here - even @ 11 ft viewing distance. It was loud, clear, in bright scenes with volume setting @ 12-15%. I could not tolerate the buzz, and returned the unit after 2 weeks trying to convince myself it was not so bad. My replacement, a 42 Inch Panasonic has NO Buzz and still no Burn-in after thousands of hours watching 3X4 material in non-stretch mode on the unit.

I am now ready to upgrade, but will wait for the "Buzz" consensus on the 5020 before jumping.

Nambit

06-14-08, 11:08 AM

If it were just a constant faint buzz it wouldn't be too bad for me becasue after hearing it for a bit I would forget about it.
But when the pitch is constantly going high then low, its hard to forget about.
This is exactly what I said about my buzzing last year. If it were constant, it
would be fine and easy to get used to, but it's the variance of buzzing during
certan scenes that make it difficult to ignore. However, this is more of an issue
with PC's and the internet (see the below quote).

During movies the sound drowns it out unless it is a silent scene. But when I browse the internet on my PS3, it is very bothersome. It sounds like I am playing a musical instrument with my keyboard becasue the pitch changes every time I change pages.

Now, hook a laptop up to this thing and see just how nasty it can get. Since
you're likely (hopefully) using HDMI inputs, try this to see if it helps. Set your
HDMI signal type to PC (if it exists on the 9g). You do this by going into
OPTIONS, then HDMI INPUT, then SIGNAL TYPE. For some reason, the
PC signal buzzing is different and seems to be quite the bit more tolerable.
(or at least, it was more tolerable back then). It'll still work on your PS3
and such so give it a go. You'll lose video modes and such, but at least
you can adjust the RGB (if it's anything like the 8G). Let me know how it goes.

Oh, one last thing, try setting your power control to ENERGY SAVE mode 2.
That'll make things a bit dimmer but the buzzing should almost disappear.

Dahlsim

06-14-08, 11:09 AM

DTV TiVo Dealer

06-14-08, 11:20 AM

Nambit

06-14-08, 11:26 AM

So is anyone else interested in getting a 141? I had a 150 and was thinking of
going 151, but I figured "Why not get something different and go for the monitor
one?". Well, 141 it is. I'm thinking it'll be way cool to hang that one and the
reduction of electronics hopefully will reduce any chance of buzzing and artifacts.

timberwolf10014

06-14-08, 11:31 AM

From the PDF (and a little editing on coltsfreak18's list) ... the 151 Elite ONLY features and in brackets are [xx20 only]:

- ISFccc

- Independent Gamma Control (R / G / B) for heightened color calibration

- Remote Control - Illuminated [xx20 is Glow in the dark] / Learning Mode

- A/V Selection Memory – options for viewing preference: PURE / ISF-Day / ISF-Night / ISF-Auto [xx20 has Dynamic]

- PIP w/ Home Media Gallery [xx20 just PIP]

- Intelligent Mode (off/mode1/mode2)

- Picture Detail Settings – DRE Picture (Off / High / Mid / Low), Black Level (Off / On), ACL (Off / On), Enhancer Mode (1 / 2 / 3), Gamma (1 / 2 / 3)

- Color Temperature Adjustment – 5 settings (High / Mid-High / Mid / Mid-Low / Low)

- Color Space (1 / 2)

-Noise Reduction Settings – 3 DNR (Off / High / Mid / Low), Field NR (Off / High / Mid / Low), Block NR (Off / On), Mosquito NR (Off / On), Tuner NR (Off / On – for each channel)

- 3 DYC (Off / High / Mid / Low)

- I-P Mode (1/2/3)

- IR Repeater

- 2 year Warranty [xx20 1 year]

- Elite Color Filter for enhanced contrast in bright environments [xx20 has just a "filter for enhanced contrast in bright environments" :confused:]

- New ››Advanced Redesigned GUI

- 2 Side Speakers [xx20 has 1 below]

- Weight +4 oz :p

Shutterman

06-14-08, 11:37 AM

I am honestly not trying to be flippant, but there is an insurance policy (of sorts) to deal with the dreaded buzz issue, or any other issue you might have with these sets.

It’s called “buying from a local reputable dealer”. Granted, on a purchase this large the difference may be a few hundred dollars, but given the known buzz issues with some of these panels, I'm amazed that more folks don't take advantage of buying local and gain some peace of mind.

I find it ironic how some folks are willing to fork over money for other types of insurance, such as extended third-party warranties, but yet would never consider buying from their local B&M. (BTW, if you’ve ever tried to collect on one of these add-on policy’s you’ve no doubt learned the lengths they’ll go to weasel out of paying.)

Don’t get me wrong; I think our forum sponsors do an admirable job at customer service and they provide some excellent pricing. But on a purchase this large, price isn't everything.

In my case, I’m paying a premium of a little over 7.4 percent to buy local vs. what some of the online dealers are able to offer (to those in their 250 mi radius, that is). What I get for this premium is the peace of mind knowing that should the panel arrive broken…I won’t be the one packing it up and spending time in voice-mail hell trying to take care of things. If I’m bothered by the dreaded buzz, I can do an easy exchange without even worrying about needing to pack it back up as my dealer has pledged to take care of that. If there happens to be some stuck pixels I can, again, do an easy exchange without packing it up. If I get buyers remorse and want something different…well, you get the idea.

Yes, I know the extra coin may seem like a lot at first, but if you think of it as an insurance policy, it might make it seem more palatable.

Nambit

06-14-08, 11:39 AM

1. What are the differences between the 9G Elite and Non-Elite models...or is there a published list of the differences somewhere?

See this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14082505&postcount=4898

Then look at this post (below) and understand that many of these features are not in the non-elite:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14080965&postcount=6

teiring

06-14-08, 11:48 AM

Hey guys, can I use the same break-in settings for the 9Gs like for the 8Gs?

Hoping to get an answer!

Dahlsim

06-14-08, 11:48 AM

It’s called “buying from a local reputable dealer”. Granted, on a purchase this large the difference may be a few hundred dollars, but given the known buzz issues with some of these panels, I'm amazed that more folks don't take advantage of buying local and gain some peace of mind.

I'm seeing differences of much more than a "few hundred" dollars between local and online, at least on the 60". Then there is tax...

LKDog

06-14-08, 11:54 AM

LOL :D

I will continue sitting on the sidelines until there is a "BUZZ" consensus on the Elites.

It is the same with the Elites. It is Equal Opportunity buzz based upon the Buzz poll thread.
Only you can decide if it is an issue. Everyone is different.

Honestly, the issue really is not a big deal for probably 95% of the people out there.
If you are a person who definitely thinks it will be-then buy from a local dealer who will accept a return, or try a Panny.

coltsfreak18

06-14-08, 11:56 AM

Hey guys, can I use the same break-in settings for the 9Gs like for the 8Gs?

Hoping to get an answer!D-Nice posted break-in settings on the first page of the non-elite owners thread.

P.S. Post some pictures.

P.P.S. How is the buzz?

Edit: Yeah you can... You could anyway, but they are still the same settings as on the first page of the 9g owners discussion thread.

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 11:57 AM

Hey guys, can I use the same break-in settings for the 9Gs like for the 8Gs?

Yes.

hamsamish09

06-14-08, 11:57 AM

Hey guys, can I use the same break-in settings for the 9Gs like for the 8Gs?

Hoping to get an answer!

Yes

Shutterman

06-14-08, 12:15 PM

I'm seeing differences of much more than a "few hundred" dollars between local and online, at least on the 60". Then there is tax...
Nope. In my case at least, the few hundred is inclusive of tax for the 151FD.

billybob0405

06-14-08, 12:20 PM

I don't think the long distance really makes much difference to whether or not your panel gets damaged in shipping, once it's secured in the truck, it's pretty safe. When they're shipping across the country, they aren't going to be driving over dirt back roads, it's all smooth highway driving. I think a most of the damage occurs when the boxes are being loaded and unloaded by careless individuals, and blind/retarded fork-lift operators driving into the boxes.

I totally agree. I also think that damage is mostly occurring in what is called the "last mile", the delivery truck. I worked in the general offfice of a large trucking firm for 28 years and damage claims were one of the leading issues affecting their bottom line. The term "last mile" was used as an area to concentrate on to reduce claims. As items on the truck (assuming there was more than one) are delivered, the load pattern can change, increasing the possibility of shifting. Several posts indicated that the tv was not upright at delivery time - bad news. The large trucking firms know how to move freight across country with the minimum of damage, no one has yet learned how to do that 100%. Just hope the "last mile" is a term used for final delivery and not the lifespan of the tv.

TheTonik

06-14-08, 12:24 PM

I'm seeing differences of much more than a "few hundred" dollars between local and online, at least on the 60". Then there is tax...

Ditto.

In my case, it's $1,850 more expensive to buy it locally, as all Elite dealers within a 100 mile radius of me are selling for full MSRP ($6,500) and will not budge. Not one of them will go for anything less than full MSRP. Add $420 to that for tax. Then add another $25 or so for fuel costs as none of them will deliver.

Speaking for myself, it would be foolish to purchase an Elite locally.

teiring

06-14-08, 12:26 PM

Thank you guys ;)

I've ordered today my 5090H in Germany. I'll post some pictures as soon as I get my TV. ;)

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 12:30 PM

Is this to turn off the screen displays? Or is this to turn off the screen to black after 30 seconds of no signal?

From the manual...

AV/PC Source - Picture Off
To save energy and extend the life of your flat panel TV, have the screen turn Off. To deactivate the screen, follow
the steps below.
1 ) Press TOOLS on the remote control.
The TOOLS Menu appears on screen.
2 ) Select Picture Off from the TOOLS Menu.
3 ) Press ENTER.
The screen display turns Off.
To restore the screen display, press any buttons other than VOL +/– and MUTING.
Note: The Picture Off setting is not memorized by the system.

Thebarnman

06-14-08, 12:34 PM

Would it be a good idea to turn this feature on while using the break-in DVD?

AV Source - No Signal
To save energy and extend the life of your flat panel TV, the panel can enter Standby automatically if the AV source
signal fails for 15 consecutive minutes.

chadmak09

06-14-08, 12:35 PM

This is exactly what I said about my buzzing last year. If it were constant, it
would be fine and easy to get used to, but it's the variance of buzzing during
certan scenes that make it difficult to ignore. However, this is more of an issue
with PC's and the internet (see the below quote).

Now, hook a laptop up to this thing and see just how nasty it can get. Since
you're likely (hopefully) using HDMI inputs, try this to see if it helps. Set your
HDMI signal type to PC (if it exists on the 9g). You do this by going into
OPTIONS, then HDMI INPUT, then SIGNAL TYPE. For some reason, the
PC signal buzzing is different and seems to be quite the bit more tolerable.
(or at least, it was more tolerable back then). It'll still work on your PS3
and such so give it a go. You'll lose video modes and such, but at least
you can adjust the RGB (if it's anything like the 8G). Let me know how it goes.

Oh, one last thing, try setting your power control to ENERGY SAVE mode 2.
That'll make things a bit dimmer but the buzzing should almost disappear.

OMG!!!!!
THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!
The buzzing decreased drastically when I switched to Energy save mode2.
Thank GOD!!!!!!!
Now, What are the disadvantages of running at energy save mode 2??

Again,
Thanks soooooo much!!!
Your post just made my weekend!!!!
YOu have no idea how "down in the dumps" I have been.
Now I can get back to enjoyingmy new Kuro!!!

THIS FORUM ROCKS!!!!!!

-Chadmak09

coltsfreak18

06-14-08, 12:40 PM

OMG!!!!!
THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!
The buzzing decreased drastically when I switched to Energy save mode2.
Thank GOD!!!!!!!
Now, What are the disadvantages of running at energy save mode 2??

Again,
Thanks soooooo much!!!
Your post just made my weekend!!!!
YOu have no idea how "down in the dumps" I have been.
Now I can get back to enjoyingmy new Kuro!!!

THIS FORUM ROCKS!!!!!!

-Chadmak09But how is the PQ in energy save 2? Is there a discernible difference between ES1 and ES2??

cwest54

06-14-08, 12:43 PM

If you have the directional buzz out of the front of the panel that some of us experienced with the 8Gs, there is something you can try to reduce your being in the "target zone" where the buzz is the loudest. To test whether you are a candidate for this fix, sit directly across from the panel as you normally would. Now stand up slowly in front of the chair/couch and pay careful attention to whether the buzz grows fainter as you ears rise to a level that is above the top of the panel across the room. If the buzz is much less when reaching that position, then you have established that you have the directional panel buzz. Moving about two feet off center when seated in front of the panel and noting a reduction in the buzz will prove the same point.

If you find it an annoying compromise to have sit off center to accommodate the buzz problem, there is something else you can do. Go to your local hardware store and pick up, say, 20 rubber washers that are about 2" in diameter. Create three equal stacks of washers that are about .75 inches high. Tilt the panel back on its stand slightly so that you can place the washers at left, center and right positions under the front of the stand. This maintains a slight, but key backward tilt to the panel. The .75 " tilt at a 10 foot distance from a centered viewing area raises the directional buzz "target zone" a good 20" higher and reduces the buzz you hear quite a bit. You might have to experiment with the amount of backward tilt needed to achieve the desired effect, but I would be surprised if the stack of washers has to be more than 1 inch. When you are satisfied with the result,
take the washers back out and cover them with black electrical tape. That will give the stacks a finished look that won't be noticed. You also will want to put three single washers under the back of the stand if the stand is on a wooden piece of furniture; that will prevent the backward tilt of the stand from allowing the stand edge to gouge the wood and also creates some more stability to the whole tilt setup. Let me know how that works for you.

Actually its during bright scenes not whites only. And the Break-in disk is not a movie.
In fact, Its really not so bothersome with the break-in DVD in. When it is bothersome to me is the switch from a dark scene to a brigher scene. The sudden change in low pitch buzz to high pitch buzz makes it much more noticable to me. If it were just a constant faint buzz it wouldn't be too bad for me becasue after hearing it for a bit I would forget about it.
But when the pitch is constantly going high then low, its hard to forget about. During movies the sound drowns it out unless it is a silent scene. So its only bothersome about a third of the time. But when I browse the internet on my PS3, it is very bothersome. It sounds like I am playing a musical instrument with my keyboard becasue the pitch changes every time I change pages. When I scroll down thru this thread it goes wheeee oooowheeeooo (lol, best I can describe it) as the dark pictures i posted scroll thru the screen and the screen goes dark, bright,dark then bright again.
But I am going to wait and see i it decreases any after break-in. Who knows, maybe it will.

E-A-G-L-E-S

06-14-08, 12:45 PM

Decreased brightness and you'll want to ask D-Nice if at some point he could give you settings using ES2.

abc123puck

06-14-08, 12:53 PM

Anyone know what the rated hours for the life of the 5020 or 6020 is?

Dahlsim

06-14-08, 01:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim
I'm seeing differences of much more than a "few hundred" dollars between local and online, at least on the 60". Then there is tax...

Nope. In my case at least, the few hundred is inclusive of tax for the 151FD.

Congrats on finding a great local deal then. I doubt everyone will have as much luck however.

BTW are you also factoring in an AVS member discount online? Any differences in extended warranty prices?

prepress

06-14-08, 01:09 PM

birdliver

06-14-08, 01:13 PM

All plasma TVs buzz.

as we age you loose the ability to hear that particular frequency.

-Robert

Wow, Not only does he provide excellent service, now he's actually making me glad that I'm an old bird! -ko

prepress

06-14-08, 01:25 PM

darkeyes1

06-14-08, 01:31 PM

can any one tell me how to ask a question

avssa

06-14-08, 01:32 PM

can any one tell me how to ask a question

you just did :D

birdliver

06-14-08, 02:16 PM

Nope. In my case at least, the few hundred is inclusive of tax for the 151FD.

You mentioned a 7.4% premium for your local B&M store. That's reasonable, but far from typical in my experience locally. Here, there's 8% tax alone. Plus delivery charge and as much as a $1,400 premium on the price, and I've checked a few stores. That's over 2K all together which is more like 40%.

Geordon

06-14-08, 02:28 PM

gugy

06-14-08, 02:36 PM

timberwolf10014

06-14-08, 02:42 PM

You mentioned a 7.4% premium for your local B&M store. That's reasonable, but far from typical in my experience locally. Here, there's 8% tax alone. Plus delivery charge and as much as a $1,400 premium on the price, and I've checked a few stores. That's over 2K all together which is more like 40%.

I agree ... no way a "few hundred" unless you live in Oregon (with no Sales Tax) and own a truck to pick it up yourself ... which excluded 99% of the people on this Forum :p

BestBuy in NY will charge you MSRP, but you can get a 10% Coupon if you search ... so, $6,500 minus 10%, plus Delivery and Sales Tax (8.45% NY) equals about $6,600 'Delivered'. Do your own PM'ing ... but my research shows the Sponsor's are offering a price MUCH more than a "few hundred" below that ... unless by a "few" you mean MANY :eek:

EDIT: I would like to add ... that the Sponsor's on this Forum have been incredibly helpful, but if I could get a Pioneer for a "few hundred" more than their PM'ed prices ... I would. The benefit of being able to easily return a 'Buzzer' (even a mild 'Buzzer'), or a few Dead Pixels, would be worth the extra money. Besides, the B&M's have over the years helped me enormously with the ability to walk down the street and see the product in person ... so for the many times I did not buy from them, but benefited by my own hands on research ... it would be good Karma ;)

htwaits

06-14-08, 02:43 PM

Unfortunately that 250 rule makes a problem for me regarding the Elite.The only way a "rule" for dealers can be a problem for you is if you are a dealer. The whole issue was thrashed out yesterday. ;)

timberwolf10014

06-14-08, 02:47 PM

can any one tell me how to ask a question

you just did :D

It helps if you add a 'question mark' (?) to the end of the sentence :D

billybob0405

06-14-08, 02:54 PM

Wow, Not only does he provide excellent service, now he's actually making me glad that I'm an old bird! -ko

+1

mrein205

06-14-08, 02:58 PM

Just got a 5020. Check out my post in the non-elite thread regarding buzz.

Nambit

06-14-08, 03:21 PM

OMG!!!!!
THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!
The buzzing decreased drastically when I switched to Energy save mode2.

-Chadmak09

I'm glad things are a bit better. Even though you'll probably notice a slight
decrease in brightness, I'm guessing the 9G's energy save 2 is probably the
same brightness as the 8G's energy save OFF mode (since the peak brightness
is supposedly significantly higher in the 9G).

Still, when you get a chance, let Pioneer (and your retailer) know about the
buzz and see if there's anything that can be done.

gugy

06-14-08, 03:27 PM

The only way a "rule" for dealers can be a problem for you is if you are a dealer. The whole issue was thrashed out yesterday. ;)

Cool, thanks for the update

htwaits

06-14-08, 03:34 PM

Cool, thanks for the updateYou're welcome. If you blink in this thread, you can miss a lot. ;)

timberwolf10014

06-14-08, 03:47 PM

From the PDF (and a little editing on coltsfreak18's list) ... the 151 Elite ONLY features and in brackets are [xx20 only]:

- 2 Side Speakers [xx20 has 1 below]

After I posted my comparison of the Elite's vs xx20's ... I got to thinking about the Speakers. The PDF claims they both have:

Sound Technology
Improved ››18-Watt Stereo Digital Amplifier w/2-Way Stereo Speakers
SRS››® WOW HD / SRS FOCUS / SRS TruBass / SRS Definition®

The Elite has separate speakers on the sides. The xx20 has one speaker on the bottom. Is Pioneer using the same number of Tweeters and Woofers; and just packing them in tighter on the xx20's? ... Is there any additional benefit to the Elite set-up, beside the better Stereo effect (and no 'Chicken Legs')???

Kurisu2

06-14-08, 03:59 PM

Ok, so here's my issue:

50" non-Elite + outboard scaler _or_ 50" Elite?

We will watch a lot of downloaded content through an HTPC (my wife is Japanese -- it's the only way to get her programming in Canada). Maybe only 30% blu ray.

Will the Elite help make the crappy avi quality look better? Or will an outboard scaler do a better job of that?

I was thinking the extra block reduction, sharpening, etc. features of the Elite might be the way to go, but then I read about the Gefen TV Scaler Pro...

A second question about viewing distance -- is 9-10' distance too close for a 60" if you're watching downloaded content?

Any ideas? Thanks!!

RickAVManiac

06-14-08, 04:28 PM

OMG!!!!!
THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!
The buzzing decreased drastically when I switched to Energy save mode2.
Thank GOD!!!!!!!

THIS FORUM ROCKS!!!!!!

-Chadmak09

Hi, I am happy for you...

Did you notice a difference is PQ?

Also, can you tell me what the height of the stand is? I will place my center speaker in front of my Kuro and I don’t want to hide screen detail with my speaker… So I am looking for the number of inch between the bases of the TV to the top of bottom bezel just where the display zone begins...

Thanks for your help,

Eric

LKDog

06-14-08, 04:47 PM

I'm glad things are a bit better. Even though you'll probably notice a slight
decrease in brightness, I'm guessing the 9G's energy save 2 is probably the
same brightness as the 8G's energy save OFF mode (since the peak brightness
is supposedly significantly higher in the 9G).

Still, when you get a chance, let Pioneer (and your retailer) know about the
buzz and see if there's anything that can be done.

Interesting information.
Using Power Saver modes on the 8G's had little effect on the buzz, and killed the PQ.
Everything looked crappy and dim IMO.

Glad to hear that it helps the buzz and that it does not hamstring the PQ in your opinion.
Maybe that is a change in the 9G sets.

chadmak09

06-14-08, 05:08 PM

Interesting information.
Using Power Saver modes on the 8G's had little effect on the buzz, and killed the PQ.
Everything looked crappy and dim IMO.

Glad to hear that it helps the buzz and that it does not hamstring the PQ in your opinion.
Maybe that is a change in the 9G sets.

I still havent got a chance to see how the PQ is with powersave 2.
I had to leave for work right after I changed it to powersave2.
But buzz decreased significantly!
I hope it does not harm the PQ.

LKDog

06-14-08, 05:12 PM

I still havent got a chance to see how the PQ is with powersave 2.
I had to leave for work right after I changed it to powersave2.
But buzz decreased significantly!
I hope it does not harm the PQ.

Let us know what you think.
Thx.

hoehne

06-14-08, 05:14 PM

I just got back from my local Best Buy. They have the 151's in their warehouse and could deliver to me in four days.

While they can deliver in 4 days, they do not have any xx20's or 151 or 111 on display.

They have also been good enough to match the best price I have received on the forums (pre tax of course). Another local store has done the same, they are ABT Electronics. I am going back and forth from people on this forum to purchase from and my local BB simply because of warranty concerns and shipping. The best price will win, I just wish I had pricing on the 141. Some speculate it will also MSRP at $6500 as posted previously in this thread, but no official release has been made.

The other thing holding me back right now are the advantages and price of the 141. BB also offers the 36 month 0% financing. While paying cash for the TV is possible, financing is a nice way to alleviate the pain.

D-Nice mentioned he would take the 151 over the 141, but did not make a case as to why. I am curious why he made that claim and based on what info. I am also curious of the price on the 141 as others and as others have inquired, what advantages the 141 will have. Will it have a deeper cell structure, better blacks, less buzz, etc.

darita

06-14-08, 05:16 PM

Just got off the phone with Magnolia in Sacramento area. They said the computer says they are due for a delivery on the 19th to the Northern CA area stores, but did not know how many will appear. I believe he said there are 121 preordered for this region. That's more than I expected.

chadmak09

06-14-08, 05:19 PM

Has d-nice emntioned when he might release his reference settings for the 6020??

darbycrash

06-14-08, 05:23 PM

Has d-nice emntioned when he might release his reference settings for the 6020??

He did:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13971311#post13971311

Glashub

06-14-08, 05:24 PM

Anybody with experience downloading the burn-in dvd? I downloaded the iso file and then extracted it. There's an iso image file and a mds file. I can't open the mds file and I don't what it is or what it's for. So I burned the iso to a dvd-r using roxio. Tested it and it seems to work fine. Did I do it right? Will the dvd-r run 24 hours and loop? I'm using an Onkyo 805 HD-DVD player. I don't think it loops but I'll check.

Thanks

timberwolf10014

06-14-08, 05:27 PM

D-Nice mentioned he would take the 151 over the 141, but did not make a case as to why

He did ... he said he would be able to move it to his bedroom someday ... which made 100% sense to me :cool:

FocusedOne

06-14-08, 05:39 PM

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 05:39 PM

All plasma TVs buzz. In most cases a larger panel has a slightly lower pitched frequency and may be a little louder as the reflective surface is larger.

Here are four reasons why some folks hear the buzz and some can't.
First, the frequency the glass osculates at can only be heard by a relativity small segment of the population.
Second, as we age you loose the ability to hear that particular frequency.
Third, most rooms have some ambient background noise that makes the buzz inaudible.
And Forth, as soon as you add a moderate TV volume the buzz can't be heard.

In 2001 I had a LG and Panasonic plasma panel that buzzed and as years passed by the buzz diminished and in 2008 the buzz is completely gone, but so has my ability to hear the buzz frequency. So in my case Mother Nature fixed my buzz issue.-Robert

Robert, your reasons have some serious flaws and there has to be at least one more reason and that is that some panels buzz more then others and are at a level that is noticeable/problematic.

reason one?? so what if Pioneer sends out a service tech and that service tech cannot hear the buzz? does that mean there is no buzz issue with your display?

reason two?? I would not expect Pioneer to say hey we consider it ok now and don't worry about it anyway since you will not hear it in 7 years or so.

reason three, ok for those people then they have no issues whether they do or don't have a buzz issue.

reason four?? since no matter the volume once you have a quiet or lull in the sound you immediately get hit with the buzz instead of the intended quiet/low volume period as intended.

Pioneer instead of taking a blanket approach that it is all normal and acceptable should step up as a company and give the techs a way to measure it or at least listen to them as to it effecting the viewing experiece ( although remember many service tech will not be able to hear it anyway:(:( ) and admit and warranty those sets where it is noticeable/problematic.

Robert, I'm sure as you are an excellent and reputable Pioneer Kuro/Kuro Elite dealer that you would take care of your customers if they had this issue. But it really needs to be pushed by you and other dealers here on the forums up to Pioneer as well as called in by owners who have the buzz issue. Like when you took issues with the Toshiba HD dvd players to Toshiba and it helped with features/upgrades/fixes.

chadmak09

06-14-08, 05:50 PM

Robert, your reasons have some serious flaws and there has to be at least one more reason and that is that some panels buzz more then others and are at a level that is noticeable/problematic.

reason one?? so what if Pioneer sends out a service tech and that service tech cannot hear the buzz? does that mean there is no buzz issue with your display?

reason two?? I would not expect Pioneer to say hey we consider it ok now and don't worry about it anyway since you will not hear it in 7 years or so.

reason three, ok for those people then they have no issues whether they do or don't have a buzz issue.

reason four?? since no matter the volume once you have a quiet or lull in the sound you immediately get hit with the buzz instead of the intended quiet/low volume period as intended.

Pioneer instead of taking a blanket approach that it is all normal and acceptable should step up as a company and give the techs a way to measure it or at least listen to them as to it effecting the viewing experiece ( although remember many service tech will not be able to hear it anyway:(:( ) and admit and warranty those sets where it is noticeable/problematic.

Robert, I'm sure as you are an excellent and reputable Pioneer Kuro/Kuro Elite dealer that you would take care of your customers if they had this issue. But it really needs to be pushed by you and other dealers here on the forums up to Pioneer as well as called in by owners who have the buzz issue. Like when you took issues with the Toshiba HD dvd players to Toshiba and it helped with features/upgrades/fixes.

I agree,
There has to be a better way to handle this issue. And whether many want to believe it or not, it is an issue. The powersave2 may help me with the buzz but that cannot be the fix. Especially if it decreases brightness.
I think alot of people write this issue off as OCD or justy being hard to please. Trust me its not.
Pioneer should put the sets thru some kind of noise test to check for irregular buzzing. And the measuring should not be done in a loud factory.
For me I hope the powersave 2 doesn't hurt the PQ any. I noticed that D-nice's reference settings have powersave off.:(

chadmak09

06-14-08, 05:53 PM

He did:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13971311#post13971311

whew.
Man, is it just me or does the reference settings list look small.lol

Picture:
AV Selection: Movie
Contrast: 38
Brightness: -1
Color: -2
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15
Pure Cinema
Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off
Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 1 (All screen size modes except Dot-by-Dot)
Mode 2 (Dot-by-Dot screen size mode ONLY)

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 06:04 PM

I am currently running the break in dvd and discovered 3 stuck/dead pixels. One of them is in the center of the screen about 4 inches from the top, and another is about 10 inches below that (not exactly an ignorable location). The last one is about an inch off of the left side in the upper corner. On some of the colored screens they blend in more and are harder to see, but on others they are unmistakable. They are visible up to about 3 feet away on lighter colored screens. But on a blue/dark blue screen, they show up as distinctive black dots and can be seen up to about 5 feet away. Luckily I bought my 151FD through bigboxville, but returning it is still a hassle. I love this TV, I hope my next one is defect free.

Does anybody know what Pioneer's take on dead/stuck pixels is? Do they have a certain number before the classify is as a defect? Just curious. This is a bummer.

focusone, really sorry to hear that.
unfortunately it is just a numbers game and is going to happen to some panels.

here's a recent thread on it.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021112

at least one Elite owner in there with one stuck pixel got a replacement panel, but it wasn't easy at first but he had help from Roman and his dealer and also filed a complaint with the bbb.

although you may get a good final outcome with Pioneer in your case even though a return and replacement is a hassle your much better served having it done under the bb 30 day return policy.

cwest54

06-14-08, 06:09 PM

If Powersaver 2 has messed up your PQ, you might want to try what I suggest in entry #4915

I still havent got a chance to see how the PQ is with powersave 2.
I had to leave for work right after I changed it to powersave2.
But buzz decreased significantly!
I hope it does not harm the PQ.

LTCJack

06-14-08, 06:18 PM

rougebear

06-14-08, 06:22 PM

D-Nice mentioned he would take the 151 over the 141, but did not make a case as to why. I am curious why he made that claim and based on what info. I am also curious of the price on the 141 as others and as others have inquired, what advantages the 141 will have. Will it have a deeper cell structure, better blacks, less buzz, etc.

Everything I have read says the 141 and 101 will be the same panel and same specs as the elite. The differences will be it will not have a tuner or speakers and be only 2.7 inches in depth along with more custom settings. D-Nice actually confirmed some things earlier in this thread. Here was his responses to questions regarding the differences between the sig and elite.

it is in fact a thinner display than the elite series?
Yes

with greater contrast?
No

and more display customization?
Yes

i haven't seen a price yet but it sounds like it will probably cost a bit more than the elite series?
Nope

so my question is, a few hundred dollard aside, for those of us with reciever/speakers, why would you ever buy the elite?
So that one can move it into a bedroom when it gets replaced in the future :)

I actually spoke to a local elite dealer on the phone when inquiring about pricing on the PRO-111FD this morning. I asked him if he knew what the pricing would be on the PRO-101FD that is being released in the Fall. He said officially it is TBA but he told me his elite rep said to expect 300-500 less than the PRO-111FD. I think Pioneer and its sellers will be very hush-hush on this model because it does not release until the Fall and they are trying to sell Elites that are available right now. I can't imagine they would sell too many of the PRO-101FD if they priced them the same as the PRO-111FD. The Elite already has plenty of user settings so if the Sig panels have the same specs as reported I find it hard to believe they would not be less expensive. Pioneer probably intends for the PRO-101/141 to compete with the 11UK commercial models being released in the Fall by Panasonic. In fact it would be a perfect 3 tier pricing structure for Pioneer and its another reason to suspect they removed the user settings from the XX20 series.

5020= $4000
PRO-101FD=$4500
PRO-111FD=$5000

highheater

06-14-08, 06:35 PM

I still can't get over just how good the PQ is. I am the type of person that can really build up something in my head and often times be ultimately disappointed because it cannot live up to my expectations. Well, I did this with the kuro and my goodness, it delivers in spades. This is one of the RARE instances in which a product has actually exceeded all of my expectations - I am blown away.

This could have been my post with my 150. And the reason why I live with the buzz that I hear < 1% of the time.

LK Dog's summary of the buzz thread was fairly accurate. I personally believe that the problem has been unreported in frequency (due to differences in hearing, setup, etc) but grossly overstated in terms of severity.

Robert - your list of causes for buzz from plasmas is fine but you left out the most important reason that is / was unique to Pio's - the single glass design - and the primary reason the problem is worse with Pios.

The very things that bring us the picture we love - single glass and a firing sequence for those blacks - also make the buzz an issue. That is why I never thought this was going to get solved with the 9Gs.

Chadmack09 is one of the few people that heard the buzz on one set but not another. Most people heard it on multiple sets or never heard it at all on any set.

I can live with an audio annoyance 1% of the time for the spectacular Kuro picture 100% of the time.

dssturbo1

06-14-08, 06:42 PM

I am planning to run the sound of my 6020 through my B&W 5.1 system/Denon AVR. I am just going to connect a single HDMI cable from my 6020 to my Denon 3808CI. I am planning to detatch the TV's speakers prior to mounting it, and run the sound through my B&W CM1's.

My friend suggests that I should also connect the component cables prior to mounting the tv because it will save me the time of unmounting the tv later if I ever decide I need to connect the component cables. He says I will need the component cables if I ever want to attach the the TV speaker and listen to the sound through the TV. he says I will get tired of listening to every TV program through my B&W speakers.

I am confused. I don't plan to ever re-attach the TV Speaker, nor do i think i will not like the sound coming through my audio system. Also, I thought the HDMI cable eliminated the need for component cables.

Please advise if it is necessary to fish any other cable behind my wall and through my wall unit than a single HDMI cable from my receiver to the back of my TV.

Also, I was planning to connect the HDMI cables from the DVD player and the Directv DVR directly to the Denon 3808CI AVR as well. Please advise if this is proper or if I could get a better picture otherwise by running the HDMI cables from those units to the Pioneer 6020 rather than to the Denon 3808CI. I do not have a blu-ray player, although I am sure I will get one in a few months.

By the way, how does one get the uploaded photo to display in these messages, rather than having a link within the message?

the 3808 is a very nice receiver. yes just connect your sources (dvd/hd dvr etc)to the 3808 by hdmi or other connections if hdmi is not available from the source equipment.

Would suggest you run 2 hdmi cables from the 3808 to the 6020. one actually connected and the second as a spare. easy to do with good inexpensive cables from a place like monoprice.com

really no need to but IF you do run component cables you would also need to run red/white rca type cables for the audio into your 6020 as well as add the speakers back on it.

as for the photos, most host photo sites like imageshack will give you a text link for forums that you can copy and paste into the reply box and it will show as a pic in the actual post.

nice ent center, it looks like a throne that your new 6020 will be king of :)

Shutterman

06-14-08, 06:43 PM

Everything I have read says the 141 and 101 will be the same panel and same specs as the elite. The differences will be it will not have a tuner or speakers and be only 2.7 inches in depth along with more custom settings. D-Nice actually confirmed some things earlier in this thread. Here was his responses to questions regarding the differences between the sig and elite.
One other aspect to the Signature series that wasn't mentioned is the supposed extra quality control steps these panels are supposed to go through. Pioneer seems to make an issue of touting this feature. Not sure if that would translate out to higher tolerance hand-picked parts when building them, or just an extra couple of tests by the QC engineers. Makes me wonder if these panels would for sure be "buzzless".

FocusedOne

06-14-08, 06:57 PM

focusone, really sorry to hear that.
unfortunately it is just a numbers game and is going to happen to some panels.

here's a recent thread on it.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021112

at least one Elite owner in there with one stuck pixel got a replacement panel, but it wasn't easy at first but he had help from Roman and his dealer and also filed a complaint with the bbb.

although you may get a good final outcome with Pioneer in your case even though a return and replacement is a hassle your much better served having it done under the bb 30 day return policy.

Thanks for that link. I can't imagine going through what relevante had to do. But at least they ultimately replaced his set.

This is definitely why I bought from bb - having the 30 day return policy is the best insurance I could have. I am just disappointed that I got so unlucky. I guess thats what happens when you take possession of a TV on Friday the 13th.

Even though I've been bitten, I am more excited about Kuros than ever. After experiencing this picture I wouldn't settle for anything else.

walkoflea

06-14-08, 07:09 PM

I am planning to run the sound of my 6020 through my B&W 5.1 system/Denon AVR. I am just going to connect a single HDMI cable from my 6020 to my Denon 3808CI. I am planning to detatch the TV's speakers prior to mounting it, and run the sound through my B&W CM1's.

My friend suggests that I should also connect the component cables prior to mounting the tv because it will save me the time of unmounting the tv later if I ever decide I need to connect the component cables. He says I will need the component cables if I ever want to attach the the TV speaker and listen to the sound through the TV. he says I will get tired of listening to every TV program through my B&W speakers.

I am confused. I don't plan to ever re-attach the TV Speaker, nor do i think i will not like the sound coming through my audio system. Also, I thought the HDMI cable eliminated the need for component cables.

Please advise if it is necessary to fish any other cable behind my wall and through my wall unit than a single HDMI cable from my receiver to the back of my TV.

Also, I was planning to connect the HDMI cables from the DVD player and the Directv DVR directly to the Denon 3808CI AVR as well. Please advise if this is proper or if I could get a better picture otherwise by running the HDMI cables from those units to the Pioneer 6020 rather than to the Denon 3808CI. I do not have a blu-ray player, although I am sure I will get one in a few months.

By the way, how does one get the uploaded photo to display in these messages, rather than having a link within the message?
Not sure what the basis your friend is coming from but I have the Denon 3808CI and I run all of my TV audio through it to my surround sound speakers. You will never grow tired of it.

rougebear

06-14-08, 07:31 PM

One other aspect to the Signature series that wasn't mentioned is the supposed extra quality control steps these panels are supposed to go through. Pioneer seems to make an issue of touting this feature. Not sure if that would translate out to higher tolerance hand-picked parts when building them, or just an extra couple of tests by the QC engineers. Makes me wonder if these panels would for sure be "buzzless".

They both will have a 2 year warranty so "extra quality control steps" or "hand picked parts" would not be anything somebody would pay extra for when you get the same warranty as the 111/151. I think what you might be referring to (because I also read it on this forum) was the initial speculation that the Sig. series would be using higher quality panels than the 111/151 and that was the reason they would cost more. D-Nice confirmed the panels would have the same contrast ratio as the 111/151. I think it all comes down to Pioneer and its dealers have 111/151 plasmas to sell now so any information that does not help sales of 111/151 don't expect to hear it.

propulsionjohn

06-14-08, 07:46 PM

Not sure what the basis your friend is coming from but I have the Denon 3808CI and I run all of my TV audio through it to my surround sound speakers. You will never grow tired of it.

Me too (I have B&W speakers also) and for me even the idea of listening to the tv through the built in speakers seems crazy.....but the idea of having extra cables fished sounds like a good one.

On an unrelated note I went to my local BB today and they told me I could have the 151 for 10% off MSRP (after telling me that I really didn't want to wait beyond this weekend because once word got out that these were the last non Panasonic displays they would have trouble finding one for me:rolleyes:), Ultimate Eletronics offered 15% and my local independent dealer said he didn't have a price list yet but would beat the 15% and throw in an ISF calibration.
I had bought audio gear from them (my B&W setup) 2 years ago and the manager still remembered me by first name.
I urge any of you to find a local independent dealer and support them (or one of the forum sponsors) you really aren't gaining anything in price, product knowledge or after sales care by going to BB even armed with a 10% off coupon.
Just my $0.02

dashculpepper

06-14-08, 07:51 PM

Hey LTCJack

I like the Jazzy............I am waiting on mine to get here......another 2 weeks I believe

Nambit

06-14-08, 07:54 PM

They both will have a 2 year warranty so "extra quality control steps" or "hand picked parts" would not be anything somebody would pay extra for when you get the same warranty as the 111/151. I think what you might be referring to (because I also read it on this forum) was the initial speculation that the Sig. series would be using higher quality panels than the 111/151 and that was the reason they would cost more. D-Nice confirmed the panels would have the same contrast ratio as the 111/151. I think it all comes down to Pioneer and its dealers have 111/151 plasmas to sell now so any information that does not help sales of 111/151 don't expect to hear it.
If QC means less chance of buzzing and dead pixels, then yeah it could be worth it. Personally I like the minimalistic idea of the signature.

Shutterman

06-14-08, 08:01 PM

I think what you might be referring to (because I also read it on this forum) was the initial speculation that the Sig. series would be using higher quality panels than the 111/151 and that was the reason they would cost more.
Actually, no, I was referring to Pioneer's press release regarding hand picked parts and extra quality control from their press release (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Home+Entertainment/Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Displays+with+New+S ignature+Series+of+Monitors) on the signature series:

While Pioneer has long boasted some of the most rigorous inspection standards for reliability and performance in the industry, Pioneer’s Signature Series of Elite KURO plasma monitors exceed an even stricter examination process. Many parts of the Elite monitors are hand selected and hand assembled, making the monitor even more unique and distinct in its own right. This meticulous attention to detail is further reinforced by an accompanying certificate confirming the superior level of panel performance and near flawless aesthetics for every serial number created in this exclusive line of monitors.

Duncan_McDougal

06-14-08, 08:08 PM

So we got in out new 5020 at BB today. After setting it up right next to the 5010 I noticed a horrible delay between cut shots. It seemed to have a lag a couple milliseconds behind the 5010 and the other televisions on the wall. Also during fast action seems to have that 120hz unnatural motion like the samsungs. Anyone know of this problem or a solution?

HDPeeT

06-14-08, 08:23 PM

Maybe the ATSC tuner just isn't very good, assuming that's the way it's connected.

htwaits

06-14-08, 08:26 PM

My friend suggests that I should also connect the component cables prior to mounting the tv because it will save me the time of unmounting the tv later if I ever decide I need to connect the component cables. He says I will need the component cables if I ever want to attach the the TV speaker and listen to the sound through the TV. he says I will get tired of listening to every TV program through my B&W speakers.I replied to your post in the 8G thead so I'm adding a link to include it in with the other replies that you've gotten here. It's pretty much the same.

Using HDMI through a Denon 3808 A/V receiver. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14080361#post14080361)

Nambit

06-14-08, 08:38 PM

Also during fast action seems to have that 120hz unnatural motion like the samsungs. Anyone know of this problem or a solution?
That's probably smooth mode and it works wonders in certain situations.

rougebear

06-14-08, 09:18 PM

If QC means less chance of buzzing and dead pixels, then yeah it could be worth it. Personally I like the minimalistic idea of the signature.

QC has nothing to do with buzzing. You are talking about Pioneer's top of the line elite models 111/151, do you think it will sit well with current elite owners if the same price or less expensive (it won't be more as D-Nice has already stated) models are released and they have "better QC"? The reason you might hear the Kuro buzz more than other plasmas is because they use a single glass design instead of the double. Will the Sig line have less buzz? Its possible, but it won't have anything to do with QC. It will be because there is less electronics (no speakers,no tuner,etc.) Since the main cause of the buzz comes from the panel itself then I would guess you will also hear buzzing in a quite room with the Sig series.

bequi

06-14-08, 09:23 PM

Can someone help me understand the following (and, trust me, I already checked before deciding to post, but I must have missed it if the question has been posted before)

1) Can anyone tell me the new features - besides the blacker blacks - of the 151FD compared to the 150FD? I have the 150 and just want to know if it is worth upgrading.

2) What kind of extra calibrations does the Signatures have? Can someone give me an example of what I can calibrate in the Sig that I cannot in the 151?

3) The Signatures can be calibrated remotely, but they also can be calibrated by a calibrator coming to your house so you can get the best calibration possible, right?

I would really appreciate help with these questions if anyone knows the answers because, like a lot of you, I am in the deciding stage of upgrade or not upgrade and, if upgrade, then should I get the 151 or the Signature.

Thanks a MILLION for any assistance you can provide.

sbwtwo

06-14-08, 09:28 PM

Everything I have read says the 141 and 101 will be the same panel and same specs as the elite. The differences will be it will not have a tuner or speakers and be only 2.7 inches in depth along with more custom settings.

it is in fact a thinner display than the elite series?
with greater contrast?
and more display customization?
i haven't seen a price yet but it sounds like it will probably cost a bit more than the elite series?
so my question is, a few hundred dollard aside, for those of us with reciever/speakers, why would you ever buy the elite?

I actually spoke to a local elite dealer on the phone when inquiring about pricing on the PRO-111FD this morning. I asked him if he knew what the pricing would be on the PRO-101FD that is being released in the Fall. He said officially it is TBA but he told me his elite rep said to expect 300-500 less than the PRO-111FD. I think Pioneer and its sellers will be very hush-hush on this model because it does not release until the Fall and they are trying to sell Elites that are available right now.

5020= $4000
PRO-101FD=$4500
PRO-111FD=$5000

Which is all fine and dandy if you plan to wall mount it. However, if you want to put it on a stand...well, guess how much a stand costs? (I don't really know, but I expect it more than makes up for the price differential.)

rougebear

06-14-08, 09:33 PM

Actually, no, I was referring to Pioneer's press release regarding hand picked parts and extra quality control from their press release (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Home+Entertainment/Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Displays+with+New+S ignature+Series+of+Monitors) on the signature series:

After reading the press release I guess this is also why it was stated that the panels would have better contrast than the 111/151.

"Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. today announces the new Signature Series of Elite® KURO monitors tailored specifically for custom installers with a unique set of features for seamless high-end installations. The new Elite KURO monitors join Pioneer’s 2008 line of high-definition televisions and accomplish yet another milestone in Pioneer’s Project KURO initiatives. The end result is an even greater improvement to industry leading black levels accountable for added contrast, deeper colors and the supreme picture quality the KURO name has become synonymous with."

According to D-Nice, the above info is false. D-Nice also said they will not be more expensive than the 111/151. I think I will go with what D-Nice says instead of a marketing fluff piece from Pioneer. You can also see in the press release that the Sig Series has the same 2 year warranty as the 111/151.

chadmak09

06-14-08, 09:41 PM

Ok just got thru watching "the great debaters" with powersave mode2 on.
I did notice it was slighly dimmer. I decided to just put it back to OFF while watching movies. PQ just means too much to me.
Since Powersave helps so much, Could it be possible that a power conditioner may help?
Also,
I wrote down D-Nice's Reference settings and went to put them in.
I immedialty started laughing becasue I did not have to change one thing. His reference settings are exactly the way I had mine set up. I too preferr movie mode.
I like the overal PQ ,But I must be completely honest, I do not understand what in the world Pioeer was thinking when they removed all of the color temp settins

rougebear

06-14-08, 09:42 PM

Which is all fine and dandy if you plan to wall mount it. However, if you want to put it on a stand...well, guess how much a stand costs? (I don't really know, but I expect it more than makes up for the price differential.)

I agree. The whole point is that Pioneer has not had a product to compete with Panasonic's commercial models. Now they can offer the option if you don't need speakers,stand,tuner,etc for a little less than the 111/151 and compete with Panasonic's commercial line.

rougebear

06-14-08, 09:44 PM

But I must be completely honest, I do not understand what in the world Pioeer was thinking when they removed all of the color temp settins

They were thinking: How can we sell more Elites?;)

ROMAN O

06-14-08, 09:45 PM

Thanks for that link. I can't imagine going through what relevante had to do. But at least they ultimately replaced his set.

This is definitely why I bought from bb - having the 30 day return policy is the best insurance I could have. I am just disappointed that I got so unlucky. I guess thats what happens when you take possession of a TV on Friday the 13th.

Even though I've been bitten, I am more excited about Kuros than ever. After experiencing this picture I wouldn't settle for anything else.

Keep in mind that I have seen hundreds of instances where pixels have been fixed after break in and after people ran Pixar animated DVD's. When it doesnt there is always a way to get taken care of by your vendor as noted above. Good luck and congrats!

ROMAN O

06-14-08, 09:47 PM

I agree. The whole point is that Pioneer has not had a product to compete with Panasonic's commercial models. Now they can offer the option if you don't need speakers,stand,tuner,etc for a little less than the 111/151 and compete with Panasonic's commercial line.

Unless Panasonic lowers their pricing even more but when Pioneer had the CMX series those were flying like crazy.

coltsfreak18

06-14-08, 10:01 PM

Unless Panasonic lowers their pricing even more but when Pioneer had the CMX series those were flying like crazy.Maybe Pioneer is aiming for the signatures to be like the CMX series??

ROMAN O

06-14-08, 10:05 PM

Maybe Pioneer is aiming for the signatures to be like the CMX series??

Could be but the CMX were on the same level as the consumer IMO. To me this time it seems the SIg will be closer to ELite.

john482

06-14-08, 10:20 PM

You will find some B&M stores that will price lower than MSRP. Not many. If the salesperson see that you are well informed they will work with you.
The problem is when you go to those stores and say how much Authorized Dealers are charging they laugh and try to fool you. Here in San Diego I went to a B&M and they were saying so much bull that I decide not to give my business to them, even though they had a reasonable price. I am still trying to find a B&M store around here that have good reputation and offer great service and good price of course. :-)

I much rather order from the sponsors here that have a good reputation. Unfortunately that 250 rule makes a problem for me regarding the Elite.

Wow, you want good rep., great service, and a good price, thats asking a lot these days. Your lucky if you can get one, I think if you've already researched and you know the specs and pricing then who cares about the B.S. I 've been to most of the B&M's in San Diego and BB Mags are your best bet right now, especially considering Elites. The smaller dealers can't even budge on price, I read earlier post that you that you were in Costa mesa ??????? Why???
I've talk to most of the super. at the local BB Mags and most of them were pretty clueless, except one store where the super. new quite a bit ( relatively speaking) and even said the he would match any auth. dealers price even on-line retailers. I'm just wait to here from him about their pricing and when they will receive their first shipments. West coast seems to be laging.

Keeping my fingers crossed that he will stand by what he said.

P.S.-Just talk to the local BB Mag. super., he said their receiving a shipment of 17 diff. type of displays on wed. and some should be Pios 's They only know what they get when they start to unload the truck. Corp. is in charge of allocating.

rougebear

06-14-08, 10:24 PM

Unless Panasonic lowers their pricing even more but when Pioneer had the CMX series those were flying like crazy.

Yeah, the Panasonic 50" commercial 1080P MSRP is $3500 so if the Pioneer 50 inch Sig series comes in at $4500 I figure that a decent amount of people would be willing to pay 1K difference for the Pioneer. Once you get above that mark it becomes a tougher sell. Another factor is how they took away the settings for the XX20 series. I have the 5010 now but would like to get the XX20 series but I know in the end I could not live with the lack of adjustments in the XX20 series. I can not see the value in stepping up to the elite 111 for an extra 1K for the extra settings, but I would pay an extra $500 for the Sig 101 to regain those settings and extra year warranty, since I would not need the stand,speakers,tuner, etc. That would give Pioneer a good 3 level pricing tier that makes sense. I guess we will find out in a few months.

LKDog

06-14-08, 10:40 PM

PioBeer

06-14-08, 10:59 PM

LTCJack

06-14-08, 11:00 PM

Hey LTCJack

I like the Jazzy............I am waiting on mine to get here......another 2 weeks I believe

It's not really the Jazzy. I gave the picture of it to my contractor and he just looked at the picture and built it for me. He also built this bar. See attached.

ROMAN O

06-14-08, 11:02 PM

PioBeer
Seen many units and have not had seen this happen. And I have been watching a while now and no complaints. I would not worry about it.

ben88

06-14-08, 11:20 PM

After I posted my comparison of the Elite's vs xx20's ... I got to thinking about the Speakers. The PDF claims they both have:

Sound Technology
Improved ››18-Watt Stereo Digital Amplifier w/2-Way Stereo Speakers
SRS››® WOW HD / SRS FOCUS / SRS TruBass / SRS Definition®

The Elite has separate speakers on the sides. The xx20 has one speaker on the bottom. Is Pioneer using the same number of Tweeters and Woofers; and just packing them in tighter on the xx20's? ... Is there any additional benefit to the Elite set-up, beside the better Stereo effect (and no 'Chicken Legs')???

+1
any answers on this?

dashculpepper

06-14-08, 11:35 PM

It's not really the Jazzy. I gave the picture of it to my contractor and he just looked at the picture and built it for me. He also built this bar. See attached.
damn good likeness

Vashti

06-15-08, 12:22 AM

I went by Harvey's (in Manhattan) today to see if they had any Elites in yet - and it was closed/shuttered. :eek: Somebody told me they had gone bankrupt. Dang. This is in my neighborhood. I used to love to stop by to visit the Elites.

LTCJack

06-15-08, 12:33 AM

the 3808 is a very nice receiver. yes just connect your sources (dvd/hd dvr etc)to the 3808 by hdmi or other connections if hdmi is not available from the source equipment.

Would suggest you run 2 hdmi cables from the 3808 to the 6020. one actually connected and the second as a spare. easy to do with good inexpensive cables from a place like monoprice.com

Why would I need a second HDMI cable as a spare from the 6020 ???:confused:

birdliver

06-15-08, 12:34 AM

One other aspect to the Signature series that wasn't mentioned is the supposed extra quality control steps these panels are supposed to go through. Pioneer seems to make an issue of touting this feature. Not sure if that would translate out to higher tolerance hand-picked parts when building them, or just an extra couple of tests by the QC engineers. Makes me wonder if these panels would for sure be "buzzless".

Hi Sman,
I was wondering the same thing. It also got me wondering that if you assume(yeah, I know) that these panels get some kind of final Q A inspection by Pioneer, do they allow a percentage of buzzers and pixel challenged panels to pass through their Q.A. process? Is the alternative that they just don't have such a process for their...."Elite" line. Either way it's not very impressive. I'm making a major investment in their premier, state of the art, #1 rated plasma panel and I'm very apprehensive about it. Something's wrong with this picture.

LTCJack

06-15-08, 12:35 AM

damn good likeness

Yeah, they did a good job, but for all the headaches we experienced with our contractor, maybe it would have been a lot easier to just order the Jazzy! How much does it cost anyway??? 3 grand??

rougebear

06-15-08, 12:44 AM

Vashti

06-15-08, 12:48 AM

Now there's an idea. :) Actually, where does their old stock go? I wonder if its being sold super cheap somewhere?

Zues

06-15-08, 12:57 AM

Say I get a new 9G Kuro, I throw in the Break-in DVD before I go to bed, and at some point in the night my DVD player (will be the PS2 for break-in not the PS3 (overheating issue)) malfunctions and gets stuck on bright red for hour and hours. How bad would that be? Would that cause IR? Has this happened to anyone before? I have a feeling that Pioneer would not warrant IR caused while trying to break-in:eek:

Don't worry about break in dvd imo. Running the break in for 150hrs is just wasted time that you could be watching the tv. There still will be IR after even years of use, pioneer will just have less than other brands. They are very IR resistent. Don't think you can run the break in and wont never get IR.

Duck05

06-15-08, 12:58 AM

Up until the 9Gs, I had not seen too much justification to pay the delta for the extra's in the Elite (not even the extra year of warranty coverage).

It may be too early to judge the impact of this move by Pioneer but forum members are fairly vocal on the loss of these options (that most "normal" consumers won't miss anyway). I'm glad to have these on the XX10's.

The prior posts covering the whole Elite "authorized" dealer list, 250 mile radius, possible loss of warranty, etc. topics is down right disturbing and makes no sense on any level. Everyone should have an equal opportunity and/or choice to get the best $$$ value for their situation. For those that want the "security" of a local dealer versus the buyers seeking the best possible price (including shipping and sales tax impacts) should be a choice made by the consumers - not Pioneer policies (which are not administered consistently from the experiences shared here).

PioBeer

06-15-08, 01:05 AM

PioBeer
Seen many units and have not had seen this happen. And I have been watching a while now and no complaints. I would not worry about it.

That's good to know, however, there is a first time for everything. Would a good 5 hours of bright red on a new 9G kuro be enough to turn it into a new coffee table, or are the new plamas capable of withstanding this kind of abuse?

Actually, I should be more worried about my wife pausing her soap opera on the DVR for hours like she does with our current sony CRT. We will definately have to have a talk about that one:eek:

htwaits

06-15-08, 01:07 AM

... and at some point in the night my DVD player (will be the PS2 for break-in not the PS3 (overheating issue)) malfunctions and gets stuck on bright red for hour and hours. How bad would that be?The red sub-pixels would be aged more than the blue and green sub-pixels. After the first 150 hours I mixed in normal viewing with all the recommended precausions.

What I was worried about was having the DVD player issue an error message that would be on the screen all night. That might cause visible burn-in. That's why I used the break-in DVD with normal viewing settings, and not the "hot" settings for a fast break-in.

Would that cause IR?There wouldn't be a pattern, but the colors might theoretically be slightly different.

Has this happened to anyone before?It seems like I've read one or two posts about DVD players failing. It's certainly not common enough for it to be a big issue. I just chose to be extra carfull.

I have a feeling that Pioneer would not warrant IR caused while trying to break-in:eek:I don't think burn-in is ever covered, and image retention is a temporary condition that goes away with further use of the display.

serlenbeck

06-15-08, 01:25 AM

So I have been searching for a good wall mount and here is my choices:

For 5020 (Bedroom, corner mount)

Omnimount UCL-X
Premier Mount AM3

For 151 (Living Room) Clearance from wall in inches is in parenthesis

Omnimount U3 Tilt (2.46)
Sanus VMPL3 (2.89)
Premier Mounts VMPL3 (3.348)
Peerless SF670 (3.04)

The suggested clearance for proper ventilation on these 9G pio's is 3 15/16" none of which I've listed under the 151 choices are sufficient.

Do you guys have a suggestion? I am ok with the 5020 choices because they are articulating models and have over 4 inches of clearance. I would love to get both mounts listed under the 5020 choices (and see which one is better for my bedroom corner mount) but that is a lot of money for the gain of 1 inch but on the second hand I don't want to short change my kuro's of their breathing room :D