What is utart and what does it do?UART (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UART)

In simple terms -- I think D-Nice used some sort of a hardware controller connected to the RS-232 port to get to the Integrator Menu, instead of a key sequence on the remote. The logical conclusion would be the service menu, if available at all, will have access restricted in a similar manner.

UART (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UART)

In simple terms -- I think D-Nice used some sort of a hardware controller connected to the RS-232 port to get to the Integrator Menu, instead of a key sequence on the remote. The logical conclusion would be the service menu, if available at all, will have access restricted in a similar manner.Nope...key sequence :)

Excellent point. The KURO buzz is nothing compared to the ol' CRT whine/buzz/whistle.
Now, imagine a 40 inch CRT that does all that! Yup, my Sony started screaming
after 3 or so years. Was kinda bummed at the time... but I got used to it.

If the SM RGB controls are non-existent, you can't calibrate a non-Elite to D65. Movie mode has a grayscale of 6350 out of the box....and it looks damn good. FAR better than the 8G's Movie mode (minus SM RGB changes).

D-Nice, thanks for the preliminary info! So, here's the million dollar question for me...Based on what you've seen, considering the 9g XX20 has better blacks and the 8g XX10 had more adjustability...in your opinion, which is the better set?

Blueste, D-Nice has already said that the 6020 is already more impressive than even the previous gen's Elite line, even with the lack of certain features.

Hi folks,

I picked up my Pioneer 111 earlier today from Best Buy, and after transporting it to my house, transporting my old TV (a 30" Toshiba 1080i CRT, which had AWFUL black crush) to my sister's house, and playing around with the 111 for an hour or so before running the break in (off the home media center), I have my initial observations:

Buzzing:
No buzzing at all. Maybe my hearing is bad, but I'm 28, and I think I have decent hearing. Maybe I don't know what I'm supposed to hear, but I'm not hearing it. Awesome.

Stuck pixels:
None. I've searched, not super closely because I don't want to find one, but I haven't spotted any while running the break in disc, even on the white scenes.

Picture quality:
The picture looks excellent! Beyond my expectations. I was watching Planet Earth on Blu-ray, and there are scenes where there are dark darks (views of the ocean, etc.), and those totally blended in with the bezel. Ditto on the few minutes of widescreen movies I watched. I have noticed that now I wish my viewing distance was a bit better (I sit about 7 or 8 feet away), since my cable HD feed looks nowhere near as good as the Blu-ray discs, when my old TV didn't show such a drastic difference. Standard definition looks quite good, too. I haven't watched any regular DVDs yet, but I will experiment tomorrow.

Sound:
This set sounds awesome. I don't have a surround sound set-up yet, nor do I plan to get one for another 6 months or so (not because of cost but because my place is too small anyway), but this will definitely tide me over.

A/V Options:
So far, I think Movie mode looks best. Pure mode seems to give the picture a softer quality, which I'm not especially fond of. Again, I only watched about an hour of programming so far, so it's hard to tell. Also, is there something I need to do to set the TV to ColorSpace2?

Overall:
I'm loving the TV so far. It's like having a movie theatre in my living room!

D-Nice: Its well understood that your recommended 6020 settings will be post 150-hour Evangelos' Break-In DVD. But how long will your settings be valid for? That is until how many total viewing hours? All this begs the question, should recommended settings be "tiered" for total viewing hours?

How do I get Evangelos' 150 hour break-in DVD?

Congrats El Bandito!!! Enjoy your marvelous new TV!

LTCJack, in this Plastma Flat Panel Displays Forum, it's sticky'd up at the top. It should say something like Master Burn-In Thread or something like that.

My replacement 6020 arrived this afternoon. This time with no cracks in the screen! Woo hoo! No buzz or bad pixels either.

Prior to watching this TV in my living room, I was with the unwashed masses who didn't see enough difference between DVD and Bluray to substantiate the cost difference. I'm now a changed man. On a 60" screen, it's like night and day.

Of course this has a down-side. Like the Bandito, I'm sitting less than 8ft away from the screen and non-HD Dish Network TV just sucks! I sure wish I could push my chair back when watching standard def. :( Oh well, life goes on.

I have to say that Deb @ Invision was always professional in her dealings with me and their after-sale service (getting a replacement TV for the original broken screen in two days) was nothing short of phenomenal! That's not to say they can always perform that feat, but they could have easily told me that I'd need to wait another week for a replacement set from the distributer and they didn't.

On a different subject, folks who want a good scene to test upscaling abilities should check out the space station scene with Floyd and the Russians. The red chairs against the white background have a serious case of the jaggies at this resolution.

Bob

6020:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/derekfulford/DSC02292.jpg
PRO-151:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/loraxila/DSC00619.jpg

YIKES!:eek:

Probably just poor settings/poor camera with the 6020.

6020:

YIKES!:eek:

Probably just poor settings/poor camera with the 6020.

For the record, the PRO-151FD pic was taken with my gf's sony cybershot DSC-W30 in ISO mode. I think the TV was in standard picture mode with no adjustments.

are those pictures of a planet earth episode?

are those pictures of a planet earth episode?

Yes, from the "Ocean Deep" episode.

Will I be able to use a hd tivo with the 111 and verizon fios. I thought i remembered reading a prior post about cable cards and tivos, and I believe the 9g's do not have cable card slots. Does the verizon cable card plug into the tivo? Thanks

Regarding buzz . . .

Maybe it's important to point out that I'm using a Panamax power management box . . . maybe that's why I'm not hearing any, since it's "filtering the noise" in the electricity.

Regarding buzz . . .

Maybe it's important to point out that I'm using a Panamax power management box . . . maybe that's why I'm not hearing any, since it's "filtering the noise" in the electricity.You're not hearing the buzz for several reasons (the low level produced by your display, your room's acoustics, your seat location, and/or your hearing are some of the possible reasons), but your power management box is not one of them. :)

Will I be able to use a hd tivo with the 111 and verizon fios. I thought i remembered reading a prior post about cable cards and tivos, and I believe the 9g's do not have cable card slots. Does the verizon cable card plug into the tivo? Thanks

Check out http://www.tivocommunity.com you should find the answer there or go to the HDTV forum where there is the HDTV Recorder sub forum.

Will I be able to use a hd tivo with the 111 and verizon fios. I thought i remembered reading a prior post about cable cards and tivos, and I believe the 9g's do not have cable card slots. Does the verizon cable card plug into the tivo? ThanksFiOS providers (e.g. Verizon) are governed by the same FCC mandate as CATV providers to provide PODs (i.e. CableCARD or M-Card) at the subscriber’s request.

Pioneer dropped support for a direct digital input connection w/CATV/FiOS which means that 9G owners who subscribe to cable/FiOS TV will always have to front end their panels with some cheap STB.

The TiVo S3 and HD TiVo are uni-directional cable ready DVRs that support cable/FiOS CableCARDs/M-Cards but for cable TV networks these devices cannot receive channels on SDV. FiOS does not use SDV so all channels are available to one-way DCR devices.

Unless you have "pulled the trigger" and purchased an HD TiVo or 9G Pioneer and if interactive 2-way services w/o STB are important to you, I recommend waiting for the next generation of TiVos & the 10/11G quasi-Pioneer PDPs, which should support tru2way (http://www.tru2way.com/) by that point.

How do we know that the 10g Pioneers will have the cable card option? Seems like the TV manufacturers are moving away from the cable card option.

How do we know that the 10g Pioneers will have the cable card option? Seems like the TV manufacturers are moving away from the cable card option.Correct, which is why I'm hoping that tru2way (http://www.tru2way.com/) is supported by future PDPs.

But, will cable TV providers release us from their STBs... probably not anytime soon.

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

Who will be allowed to sell the Signature series?

If only Elite dealers, then will the standard rules apply (i.e., the 250 mile deal)?

Thank you.

How do we know that the 10g Pioneers will have the cable card option? Seems like the TV manufacturers are moving away from the cable card option.

I agree and would assume that Pioneer decided to eliminate the cable card slot for this reason. And I could care less as long as the cable companies/DTV come out with a set-top box that does native channel resolutions on the fly.

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

Who will be allowed to sell the Signature series?

If only Elite dealers, then will the standard rules apply (i.e., the 250 mile deal)?

Thank you.

I was told that the Signatures are a type of Elite - which would mean it will be Elite dealers selling them. That was information right after all the models were announced. Its possible that things could have changed.

I agree and would assume that Pioneer decided to eliminate the cable card slot for this reason.eliminate features, increase profit margins

Does anyone know if the 5020's have support for receiving and display without clipping full RGB via HDMI. You know, for PS3 games.

eliminate features, increase profit margins

Hey, as long as they are improving things that really matter, like black level and contrast, I can live with no cable card slot. What a silly thing to fixate on.

Correct, which is why I'm hoping that tru2way (http://www.tru2way.com/) is supported by future PDPs.

But, will cable TV providers release us from their STBs... probably not anytime soon.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't you still need a STB if you want DVR functionality (unless your set has a built in hard drive)?

I just don't see what the big deal about tru2way is. The cost of an expensive, after market DVR would offset the cost of renting a cable STB DVR. Native channel resolutions on the fly will probably be offered on future cable STBs. Games? That's what PS3 and 360 are for. Interactive services? That's what the internet is for. Not to mention both PSN and XBOX Live for interactive services.

What is so great about tru2way? What am I missing?

eliminate features, increase profit margins

You really need to get your facts right, the 9G prices are lower on both elite and non elite models than the 8G models. So how does this tally with your comment? Yes they eliminated features, but the price went down.

Tru2Way is mostly great for the cable companies who can provide pay-per-view and on-demand (both money makers) to those customers who do not want any extra boxes in their houses. They never liked cable card because it didn't permit these money-making services.

The advantage to the consumer is only to those who find extra boxes abominable.

You really need to get your facts right, the 9G prices are lower on both elite and non elite models than the 8G models. So how does this tally with your comment? Yes they eliminated features, but the price went down.How do you think they lowered the price? :rolleyes:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't you still need a STB if you want DVR functionality (unless your set has a built in hard drive)?

Exactly, and I don't think anyone who's had DVR is willing to go back to not having it.

Hey, as long as they are improving things that really matter, like black level and contrast, I can live with no cable card slot. What a silly thing to fixate on. "What's So Special About CableCARD?

Well for starters, if you move you simply relinquish the CableCARD to your cable provider and then pick up a new one once you reach your destination. You do not have to relinquish an entire cable box and relearn, reprogram and refrustrate yourself with a whole new unit (possibly of lesser quality) at your destination. Plus, that's one less box needed in your home theater/living room. But this is only a small advantage in my book.

The HUGE advantage comes in the picture quality. For those of you under the impression that the local cable company cares about quality and such things as accurate scaling, you are sorely mistaken. Local cable companies charge a small monthly fee (and usually no installation fee) for those utilizing their equipment. What this means is that they are concerned about features but certainly not about quality, since most of their customers are not aware of what they are missing.

CableCARDs allow the user to decrypt digital cable and use higher quality components to handle scaling and display of the cable channels. Mitsubishi showed off two televisions displaying standard definition cable channels side by side at the 2004 CEDIA Expo. One unit was displaying digital cable via a provided set-top box, the other was using CableCARD. The difference was astounding. The Mitsubishi's integrated scaler was of so much higher quality then the one provided by the cheap set-top cable box that clarity was improved, ghosting was dramatically reduced and (real) edge detail was preserved - so much so, that I wondered how I was conned into thinking that it was simply broadcast that way to begin with. THIS is why CableCARD is such a significant development." Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't you still need a STB if you want DVR functionality (unless your set has a built in hard drive)?No DVR currently.I just don't see what the big deal about tru2way is. The cost of an expensive, after market DVR would offset the cost of renting a cable STB DVR. Native channel resolutions on the fly will probably be offered on future cable STBs. Games? That's what PS3 and 360 are for. Interactive services? That's what the internet is for. Not to mention both PSN and XBOX Live for interactive services.

What is so great about tru2way? What am I missing?Don’t buy a one-way TiVo that cannot receive channels on SDV.

Whatever happened with the whole tuner resolver/adapter (http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-04/wheres-the-sdv-tuning-resolver/) mess anyway?

6020:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/derekfulford/DSC02292.jpg
PRO-151:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/loraxila/DSC00619.jpg

YIKES!:eek:

Probably just poor settings/poor camera with the 6020.

I took the first picture with a sony cybershot camera. The picture is not really indicative of what was showing on screen. The picture came out overly dark and oversaturated. The picture from the Elite does not really match up with the Planet Earth Blu Ray either. The colors are too muted.

This just goes to show you how comparison pics, while fun, are hardly worth arguing over.

I just don't see what the big deal about tru2way is. The cost of an expensive, after market DVR would offset the cost of renting a cable STB DVR. Native channel resolutions on the fly will probably be offered on future cable STBs. Games? That's what PS3 and 360 are for. Interactive services? That's what the internet is for. Not to mention both PSN and XBOX Live for interactive services.

What is so great about tru2way? What am I missing?

According to FIOS subscribers, their DVR service leaves alot to be desired in terms of guide reliability and firmware stability. They use the same Motorola box as Comcast (which I have) and while the guide is much better and the firmware more stable with Comcast, the box still sucks. Add to that, no native pass through for HD. You have to pick all 720 or all 1080 output which means something is getting de-interlaced and/or scaled by the crappy processor in the box. TivoHD's interface is much better and the box allows for native output. However, no two-way communication right now since tru2way hasn't hit the market. BTW, I've heard some serious delays with tru2way testing on a Panasonic panel that was slated to hit the market this Fall. Oh well.

How do I get Evangelos' 150 hour break-in DVD?

www.eaprogramming.com

There is a special thread on this forum for discussion of its use.

I've heard some serious delays with tru2way testing on a Panasonic panel that was slated to hit the market this Fall. Oh well."Panasonic Bombs Tru2way Certification Tests: Report
Blogger Cites Sources Describing ‘Disaster’ On Two-Way TV Test (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6569263.html)

"The testing of the Panasonic unit was a "disaster of spectacular proportions"

"The unusually poor results indicate that Panasonic’s first tru2way-based products won’t be ready in time for the 2008 holiday shopping season"

"Representatives for Panasonic did not respond to requests for comment"

YIKES!:eek: Probably just poor settings/poor camera with the 6020.

not yikes but certainly proves how difficult it is to use photos to make any kind of accurate comparisions to viewing the actual panel.

I was told that the Signatures are a type of Elite - which would mean it will be Elite dealers selling them. That was information right after all the models were announced. Its possible that things could have changed.

Pretty sure this will be the case. Trying to get more info.

has d-nice posted his thoughts on the 6020? Any suggestions on getting 5010 vs 5020?

has the review been uploaded by D-Nice yet at all

Just got my 6020 (thanks Roman!). Installers are working on hanging it right now.

Question #1: Can the Ethernet port be used for control via TCP/IP? I have a Crestron system and would prefer to control the monitor with TCP/IP. Where is the protocol documented?

Question #2: Assuming the answer to the above is "no", can the RS-232 port be used for control? Where is the protocol documented?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2592661275_538703765e.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/2592663763_232ae07a66.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/2593499674_9d082fe0e4.jpg

eliminate features, increase profit margins

Sorry to say I don't agree. Cable Card was not used by more than 99% of the Pioneer panel owners and Cable Cards have poor GUI and program guides,no DVR service and does not work well in most cable carriers systems. The removal of the menu settings for non-Elite models was unfortunate for those who want the very best ISF calibration, but Pioneer did a great job on calibrating the sets in the final QC so this is a non-issue to most users.

And if you look at the advantages of the 9G vs the 8G Kuro's you will enjoy deeper blacks, more detail in the image, a more 3D look and a real film like image quality. Plus I love the Media Gallery that was only available on Elite models last year. And this year Pioneer lowered the price by $1k

So if you compare the features, improved pq and value this year's Kuros are very well positioned against other premium panels and last year's 8G Kuro offering.

-Robert

Hey, as long as they are improving things that really matter, like black level and contrast, I can live with no cable card slot. What a silly thing to fixate on.


I guess it is "out of sight out of mind" If you have never had one and used one you will never realize the benefit and how much better they perform then a cable box. Also the luxury of being able to actually use one remote. The TV Guide on the Pioneer works beautifully with the cable card too!!!!
Of course the cable companies would prefer that you dont have one because they will lose money.

People are concerned because it is sad to see a superior system go by the wayside because money hungry cable companies will not support it. Not only do I use it on my Pioneer but also used it on my Sony CRT TV for many years.

No it is not a deal breaker not having it on the TV.... obviously the PQ is the most important thing but it was nice while it lasted.

I guess it is "out of sight out of mind" If you have never had one and used one you will never realize the benefit and how much better they perform then a cable box. Also the luxury of being able to actually use one remote. The TV Guide on the Pioneer works beautifully with the cable card too!!!!
Of course the cable companies would prefer that you dont have one because they will lose money.

People are concerned because it is sad to see a superior system go by the wayside because money hungry cable companies will not support it. Not only do I use it on my Pioneer but also used it on my Sony CRT TV for many years.

No it is not a deal breaker not having it on the TV.... obviously the PQ is the most important thing but it was nice while it lasted.

That's fair, I've never had one or used one. But just from the comments on this page, it seems like there are many potential issues from poor GUI and program guide to needing a DVR and beyond.

If PQ is improved by tru2way like optivity claims, then I would be more interested. I plan on reading more about this.

"CableCARDs allow the user to decrypt digital cable and use higher quality components to handle scaling and display of the cable channels. Mitsubishi showed off two televisions displaying standard definition cable channels side by side at the 2004 CEDIA Expo. One unit was displaying digital cable via a provided set-top box, the other was using CableCARD. The difference was astounding. The Mitsubishi's integrated scaler was of so much higher quality then the one provided by the cheap set-top cable box that clarity was improved, ghosting was dramatically reduced and (real) edge detail was preserved - so much so, that I wondered how I was conned into thinking that it was simply broadcast that way to begin with. THIS is why CableCARD is such a significant development."

I'm not discrediting this info, but that was 4 1/2 years ago. Is it possible that STB's have improved since then?

I'm not discrediting this info, but that was 4 1/2 years ago. Is it possible that STB's have improved since then?Some, but probably not as much as a PRO-151FD.

Just got my 6020 (thanks Roman!). Installers are working on hanging it right now.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2592661275_538703765e.jpg


Cute installers... ;)

A_C

That's fair, I've never had one or used one. But just from the comments on this page, it seems like there are many potential issues from poor GUI and program guide to needing a DVR and beyond.

If PQ is improved by tru2way like optivity claims, then I would be more interested. I plan on reading more about this.

"CableCARDs allow the user to decrypt digital cable and use higher quality components to handle scaling and display of the cable channels. Mitsubishi showed off two televisions displaying standard definition cable channels side by side at the 2004 CEDIA Expo. One unit was displaying digital cable via a provided set-top box, the other was using CableCARD. The difference was astounding. The Mitsubishi's integrated scaler was of so much higher quality then the one provided by the cheap set-top cable box that clarity was improved, ghosting was dramatically reduced and (real) edge detail was preserved - so much so, that I wondered how I was conned into thinking that it was simply broadcast that way to begin with. THIS is why CableCARD is such a significant development."

I'm not discrediting this info, but that was 4 1/2 years ago. Is it possible that STB's have improved since then?

I have to read up on the tru2way also. Im not familiar with that.

Just got my 6020 (thanks Roman!). Installers are working on hanging it right now.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/2592663763_232ae07a66.jpg


Yikes! I'm surprised they laid your 6020 on the floor. Although, the manual displays laying it flat, I would have preferred it stay upright. Also per the manual, they should have hung it on the wall before installing the speaker.

Yikes! I'm surprised they laid your 6020 on the floor. They should have kept it upright. Also, they should have hung it on the wall before installing the speaker.They are following the instructions provided by Pioneer. ;)

I have Brighthouse cable and have had 3 cable cards for my bedroom tv (AQUOS, 1st flat panel). Lockups , dropped channels and other problems. Repair people dread cablecard service calls. "All have problems" they say. Maybe it's just my service in Tampa. No box is nice and 2way would be great but I will not miss this feature based on my problems with it.

I have Brighthouse cable and have had 3 cable cards for my bedroom tv (AQUOS, 1st flat panel). Lockups , dropped channels and other problems. Repair people dread cablecard service calls. "All have problems" they say. Maybe it's just my service in Tampa. No box is nice and 2way would be great but I will not miss this feature based on my problems with it.I have Time Warner Cable & (2) SA-4250HDC's with "Lockups , dropped channels and other problems too. ;)

has the review been uploaded by D-Nice yet at allNot yet. I'm at work right now :)

But it will be tonight ? :D

Not yet. I'm at work right now :)

Not yet. I'm at work right now :)

You mean all you do for the forum doesn't provide you with a nice six figure income and you have to do "side" work?:D Really,thanks for all you do and I (we) appreciate how much time and your expertise you provide to the forum. Looking forward to your review later today.

Mike

I remember someone asking D-NICE for his paypal account and he would not take money, thats how good he is :)

I agree and would assume that Pioneer decided to eliminate the cable card slot for this reason. And I could care less as long as the cable companies/DTV come out with a set-top box that does native channel resolutions on the fly.

Is this true of the 9Gs also? Having the option would be nice.

I remember someone asking D-NICE for his paypal account and he would not take money, thats how good he is :)He can always donate the proceeds to the "optivity" 9G PRO-151FD fund. :D

He can always donate the proceeds to the "optivity" 9G PRO-151FD fund. :D

Opti, if you can afford to pay full $7500 + tax for your Pro150 and take Ms Opti on all those cruises :):) do you really need donations?

thanks d-nice
mmm the uk versions are out now and say that the 9g are brighter than the 8g models here in the uk we only have the elite models

But it will be tonight ? :D

Hahahahahahaha...

Poor D-nice--he's got half the forum veritably breathing down his neck, here (and that includes me, natch).

You really did set the gold standard with all your work in this forum on the 8Gs, D, so if the rest of us seem to be chomping at the bit to read your reviews and settings, please forgive us. I think everyone is just really psyched, is all.

Yours,

David

yes, were all fortunate that he "unretired", lol.

Sorry to say I don't agree. Cable Card was not used by more than 99% of the Pioneer panel owners
-Robert

I would have liked CableCard myself ...

My guess is it was remove for the Energy Star Rating. The Standby power consumption was been nearly eliminated this year .. and if 99% of users never used it, they are paying to keep their Cable Box 'warm' and the unused CableCard slot 'warm' too :(

He can always donate the proceeds to the "optivity" 9G PRO-151FD fund. :D

Since you only seem to complain about Pioneer and the 9G's ... why would you want one? :confused:


P.S. from the numerous posts of people complaining about your complaining ... I bet you could raise a lot more by having a 'get optivity to stop posting fund' :eek: :D

Since you only seem to complain about Pioneer and the 9G's ... why would you want one? :confused:


P.S. from the numerous posts of people complaining about your complaining ... I bet you could raise a lot more by having a 'get optivity to stop posting fund' :eek: :D

Let's see... You have 82 posts and he has 10K.........

One source says availability of the 141 will be August with a price basically the same at the 151 (slightly more non-MSRP price).

Is there any more detailed information on differences between the 141 and 151 other than no speakers, no stand, no tuner, etc?

Does anyone know if the stand from the 151 will fit on the 141. If so, those who are hanging their 151's on the wall may be able to sell their unused stands to some 141 owners.

One source says availability of the 141 will be August with a price basically the same at the 151 (slightly more non-MSRP price).

Is there any more detailed information on differences between the 141 and 151 other than no speakers, no stand, no tuner, etc?

Does anyone know if the stand from the 151 will fit on the 141. If so, those who are hanging their 151's on the wall may be able to sell their unused stands to some 141 owners.

Well..I do have a 6020 stand and speaker if anyone is interested.

:DI have Time Warner Cable & (2) SA-4250HDC's with "Lockups , dropped channels and other problems too. ;)

Well I have never had any issues with the cable cards otherwise I wouldnt be giving them such a good review. In fact I took the cable card out of my Sony 36 HDTV and put it into the 5010 when I got it. It has worked flawlessly in both TVs. If I was having the problems you mentioned I would have gone back to the cable box in a heartbeat. I have no tolerance for things that dont work right.
Maybe that is why Im on my 3rd marriage.......:D

D-nice,

Will you be providing the the grayscale measurements for all the modes on the xx20's in your upcoming review? I know you have already said movie mode has a 6350 average, and game mode has 8k+. I was curious about the other modes as well.

If it is not too much of a hassle, that information would be great.

Here are some more Optimum vs. Movie Mode picture comparisons from my 6020 as promised:

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/opt.jpg?t=1213920388
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/movieD.jpg?t=1213920428


Dexter is the flat out awesome!
I can't wait to watch season 3 on my 9G!!

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/op.jpg?t=1213920600
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/movie3.jpg?t=1213920628

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/Optimum.jpg?t=1213920721
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/movie.jpg?t=1213920759

I checked out the new 60" elite at BB and was surprisingly disappointed. They had just set up the TV the night before and I expect that they didn't even get to muck around with the settings. Out of the box is the PIO's black levels kinda "meh." I know the lighting of a BB (even the magnolia section) is a little unrepresentative of home viewing so don't flame me. I just want to better understand the issue here. I did notice that I did not see much screen backlight when the screen went black but overall the screen just looked sorta gray (when there was no picture) relative to the black border. Is this just a case of the BB guys turning up the brightness level to compete with LCDs given all the extra lighting in the store?

Again, i'm just trying to understand because I am really contemplating purchasing a 9th gen pio despite already owning a 50" plasma already and given that I am currently in school getting my MBA.

Also, without getting into specific pricing, I was wondering if anybody knew of a thread that helped me understand the huge mark-up in traditional brick and mortar stores vs the vendors on AVS? Is it simply not having to deal with inventory, returns, and an actual store? I would imagine that BB or a similar store would be able to get some volume discounts which makes the difference in price even more disconcerting.

I checked out the new 60" elite at BB and was surprisingly disappointed. They had just set up the TV the night before and I expect that they didn't even get to muck around with the settings. Out of the box is the PIO's black levels kinda "meh." I know the lighting of a BB (even the magnolia section) is a little unrepresentative of home viewing so don't flame me. I just want to better understand the issue here. I did notice that I did not see much screen backlight when the screen went black but overall the screen just looked sorta gray (when there was no picture) relative to the black border. Is this just a case of the BB guys turning up the brightness level to compete with LCDs given all the extra lighting in the store?

Again, i'm just trying to understand because I am really contemplating purchasing a 9th gen pio despite already owning a 50" plasma already and given that I am currently in school getting my MBA.

Also, without getting into specific pricing, I was wondering if anybody knew of a thread that helped me understand the huge mark-up in traditional brick and mortar stores vs the vendors on AVS? Is it simply not having to deal with inventory, returns, and an actual store? I would imagine that BB or a similar store would be able to get some volume discounts which makes the difference in price even more disconcerting.

Go back and check what mode it was in. Try movie or optimum. My experience at mag was the opposite. Blacks looked too crushed in all modes!


bob

Let's see... You have 82 posts and he has 10K.........

I get it .... He complains a lot more than me!!! :p

I don't want to say yes nor do I want to say no. No one @ Pioneer wants to give that info up right now and my main contact is MIA.

Hi D-Nice, Do you think that your contact is deliberately MIA, that is, do you think Pioneer has him under wraps for some reason? What reason would Pioneer have in not giving up the service menu goods?

Chad, those are some great comparisons between optimum and Movie mode. Do you think Movie mode crushes blacks to any extent or is it about perfect?

I was at BB today and saw a 5020 next to a 6010 and a Panny pz85u all showing the same feed. One thing that was very noticeable was a delay (maybe a quarter of a second, probably significant if you're a gamer) on the 5020.

Sorry to say I don't agree. Cable Card was not used by more than 99% of the Pioneer panel owners and Cable Cards have poor GUI and program guides,no DVR service and does not work well in most cable carriers systems.
-Robert
And guys like myself in Canada don't even have the CC support, so you can
imagine that if removing the CC helped save a few $$, we're all for it as we
get screwed in pricing compared to our southern friends.

Be happy guys.

Chad, Great comparison pics. Thanks for passing along. Just curious did your HD Basics disk show up and have you had a chance to use it? Is it worthwhile? How does it compare to using set up menu in a THX DVD?Thanks, Blue

I was at BB today and saw a 5020 next to a 6010 and a Panny pz85u all showing the same feed. One thing that was very noticeable was a delay (maybe a quarter of a second, probably significant if you're a gamer) on the 5020.

Anyone with the xx20 or the new elite has the video delay??

Chad, those are some great comparisons between optimum and Movie mode. Do you think Movie mode crushes blacks to any extent or is it about perfect?

Not that I have seen.

I was at BB today and saw a 5020 next to a 6010 and a Panny pz85u all showing the same feed. One thing that was very noticeable was a delay (maybe a quarter of a second, probably significant if you're a gamer) on the 5020.

Somebody that works at BB was posting the same thing on this forum. Do a search and you will find his postings.

Chad, Great comparison pics. Thanks for passing along. Just curious did your HD Basics disk show up and have you had a chance to use it? Is it worthwhile? How does it compare to using set up menu in a THX DVD?Thanks, Blue

Got the DVE disk today. I paid for overnight shipping thru amazon and it took 3 days to get. Haven't had a chance to start using it yet. It is in Bluray format.
And my my luck keeps getting worse and worse, yesterday my PS3 stopped reading disks correctly. Which needless to say, sucks! If I take the disk out and put it back in over and over again, It will read the disk usually after about 10-15 trys though.
Hopefully I can get it to read the disk this weekend after I take the PS3 apart and clean the blu-ray lens.
I will post my results when I run the DVE disk.
-Chad

I was at BB today and saw a 5020 next to a 6010 and a Panny pz85u all showing the same feed. One thing that was very noticeable was a delay (maybe a quarter of a second, probably significant if you're a gamer) on the 5020.

Now that I think about it, I wish I had tried game mode to see if the delay went away.

Anyone know if D-Nice's review of the 6020 is up yet?

I was at BB today and saw a 5020 next to a 6010 and a Panny pz85u all showing the same feed. One thing that was very noticeable was a delay (maybe a quarter of a second, probably significant if you're a gamer) on the 5020.

Hmm,
Can't say I am familiar with what you are speaking of.
No delay issues here.
And Gaming has never been so good. I play COD4 like a madman and have had no such issues.

Anyone know if D-Nice's review of the 6020 is up yet?

Also would it be posted in the OP of the 2nd post so we don't have to constantly search for it?

....Also, without getting into specific pricing, I was wondering if anybody knew of a thread that helped me understand the huge mark-up in traditional brick and mortar stores vs the vendors on AVS? Is it simply not having to deal with inventory, returns, and an actual store? I would imagine that BB or a similar store would be able to get some volume discounts which makes the difference in price even more disconcerting.

your a bright kid, in college going for a mba...can afford a plasma already blah blah ...... it shouldn't take a thread to understand the difference in sales practices. bb starts at the retail sales price as suggested by pioneer. they do that with thousands of other items too. it makes them money so they can afford to stay in business. they give discounts like 10-12% all the time and yes they can and do give more at times too.

there are millions of items/products/services etc out there that have much larger markups then pioneer plasmas.

of course with such a huge $$ item as a Pro151 which retails at $6500 even a 10% discount is $650 which is a big chunk of change. plus add saving sales tax could easily get you over $1k in savings on that initial 10% discount. that makes a difference. it gets peoples attention and makes them consider those options even more so at 20-30%. most people do not mind paying retail for those other millions of products/services that retail for average priced items such as a $4 hamburger, a $50-$100 pair of shoes etc etc......

bottom line is it's a free market, the avs vendors can set the prices where they need them to make profits, gain sales, stay in business etc.
.

personally i think that stinks - this is a $5500 - not a $599 tv - so, absolutely no calibration on the 5020 or 6020!!!!!!!

its pioneers way or the highway!!!!

I assume you paid much more for your car. Do you ever have to tune it up? Or, do you expect it to never need it?

I guess my point was perhaps the other way around...BB has op margins last year of about 5.4%. That is with some rather ridiculous gross margin on the product. Obviously BB spends a ton on advertising, sales force, and depreciation on buildings owned or perhaps on operating leases. That is what gets them on average to an operating profit of 5.4% (pretax).

However, we also have vendors on here who may also have b&m showrooms, have a salesforce (maybe less but more knowledgeable), and don't have volume discounts from the supplier and yet are still able to stay in business and offer significantly larger discounts? I guess I need to look at the financials of BB as I may be underestimating the cost of the infrastructure of large B&M or advertising? Either that or maybe these smaller vendors are basically operating at break-even or 1% margins....They must make the margin up somewhere else? Or perhaps the large B&M's have such high bad debt expense, return reserves, and large warehousing costs...anyway, sorry guys...back on top with the thread.

I was wondering if we ever see small incremental performance improvements or less defects that pop up down the road if we wait a few months to purchase the product? I mean, do plasmas on their first run have bugs that need to be worked out via firmware or even have certain hardware issues that get resolved? I am thinking of buying in the next month or so but perhaps it is smart to wait longer? Or is this a non-issue on plasma technology now.

Has anyone watched any sports on these new 9Gs ... I keep thinking how great these EURO 2008 soccer matches (the HD coverage has been outstanding) could look on a 60" Pioneer Plasma!

I came home tonight (Thursday) looking forward to D-Nice's comprehensive 6020 review that he promised no later than tonight... :-( Just kidding man, I'm only giving you a hard time -- we know you have a life, and we appreciate your time and effort, thanks! :-) Any idea when you might post it? I'm ready to buy one but I thought it might be wise to hear from the resident guru first...

Bill

Best Buy told me that as the pioneers age, the picture actually gets better. I personally think those guys will tell you that if you buy whatever they tell you that 3 months later a genie will pop out of your shoes and grant you three wishes but for some reason, curiosity persueded me to ask about this. Anyone got any knowledge on this?

I assume you paid much more for your car. Do you ever have to tune it up? Or, do you expect it to never need it?

:confused::confused:

D-Nice or anyone that can answer

My 151 came in last night andI posted some pics in owners thread. Question I have are the 8g Breakin Settings still vaild for the 9g? Any other settings need to be changed? Also is the USB version as good as the DVD for breakin. Using the USB I wouldnt have to have my dvd player for 6 days straight

Thanks in advance for your help

That's a bummer on the PS3. It's probably worn out from the last week + of use! :)

Got the DVE disk today. I paid for overnight shipping thru amazon and it took 3 days to get. Haven't had a chance to start using it yet. It is in Bluray format.
And my my luck keeps getting worse and worse, yesterday my PS3 stopped reading disks correctly. Which needless to say, sucks! If I take the disk out and put it back in over and over again, It will read the disk usually after about 10-15 trys though.
Hopefully I can get it to read the disk this weekend after I take the PS3 apart and clean the blu-ray lens.
I will post my results when I run the DVE disk.
-Chad

Dont know if pioneer gets better with aging because Im so used to it but my 5 year old 433cmx sure has not gotten worse.Still has the wow factor.

Best Buy told me that as the pioneers age, the picture actually gets better. I personally think those guys will tell you that if you buy whatever they tell you that 3 months later a genie will pop out of your shoes and grant you three wishes but for some reason, curiosity persueded me to ask about this. Anyone got any knowledge on this?

They may be talking about the first couple hundred hours of use.

I bought a 6070 in October 2006. In the mid color temperature, out of the box, the overall picture was bluish. As I got time on the set, the blue shift went away and the picture was fairly neutral in color temp.

Fast forward 20 months. I recently noticed that my brightness setting was a notch high so I had to lower it one position. As much as I'd like to buy a new set, I'm having a hard time giving up a set that looks this good.

I'm fairly fanatical about picture (and sound) quality and I'm certain that these shifts occurred.

Has anyone watched any sports on these new 9Gs ... I keep thinking how great these EURO 2008 soccer matches (the HD coverage has been outstanding) could look on a 60" Pioneer Plasma!

I watched some baseball and some of game six of the NBA finals on my 5020. Everything looked great. But that was just a quick test; I'm not going to watch a lot or look closely until I finish breaking my set in.

However, we also have vendors on here who may also have b&m showrooms, have a salesforce (maybe less but more knowledgeable), and don't have volume discounts from the supplier and yet are still able to stay in business and offer significantly larger discounts? I guess I need to look at the financials of BB as I may be underestimating the cost of the infrastructure of large B&M or advertising? Either that or maybe these smaller vendors are basically operating at break-even or 1% margins....They must make the margin up somewhere else? Or perhaps the large B&M's have such high bad debt expense, return reserves, and large warehousing costs...anyway, sorry guys...back on top with the thread.


I may be wrong, but I kinda figure the avs sponsors that have their own shops charge more for the TVs in the shop than they do to avs members. They may still be discounting below msrp (unlike BB) in the shop, but that covers the cost of having a B&M location. I also figure that sales to guys like us that are a couple states away or farther are just gravy since we're not in their natural service area. A guy like Robert can make slim margins on sets that are simply drop shipped from a distributor because we'll never really be foot traffic for his store.

Any word on that 6020 review?

Ok so how much better can or is PQ of the 151 compared to the 150? I love the 150 PQ.

I am still shocked Pioneer has replaced a new line in less than a year it just does not makes sense to me.

My FD150 is being replaced today for excessive buzzing from the panel and they are replacing with the last new in box FD150 they have.

Best Buy told me that as the pioneers age, the picture actually gets better. I personally think those guys will tell you that if you buy whatever they tell you that 3 months later a genie will pop out of your shoes and grant you three wishes but for some reason, curiosity persueded me to ask about this. Anyone got any knowledge on this?

I actually belive this, I've owned two Pannys and now the 6020 and at least with both Pannys I felt that the picture got even better over time. I have no idea why this would be or if it could have been all in my head, but it seemed like after a year or so the panels P.Q. improved.

Anyone know if D-Nice's review of the 6020 is up yet?
Sorry guys, I had a harddrive failure last night and have to get a new hardrive today. Hopefully I'll be able to post the review late tonight as I store all of my data on a secondary drive in my desktop PC :)

Sorry for the disappointment :(

Hi D-Nice, Do you think that your contact is deliberately MIA, that is, do you think Pioneer has him under wraps for some reason?No

What reason would Pioneer have in not giving up the service menu goods?Don't know. The Service Manual will have the code documented. However, it's not available yet for download and/or order.

D-Nice

I would like to know your thoughts on the SD DVD quality between the 1150vs
6020. A one word answer will do. The suspense is killing me

Thanks

D-Nice or anyone that can answer

My 151 came in last night andI posted some pics in owners thread. Question I have are the 8g Breakin Settings still vaild for the 9g?Yes

Any other settings need to be changed?No

Also is the USB version as good as the DVD for breakin.Yes

D-Nice

I would like to know your thoughts on the SD DVD quality between the 1150vs
6020. A one word answer will do. The suspense is killing me

ThanksThat's in the review :)

I was told that the Signatures are a type of Elite - which would mean it will be Elite dealers selling them. That was information right after all the models were announced. Its possible that things could have changed.

Thank you V.

Has anyone watched any sports on these new 9Gs ... I keep thinking how great these EURO 2008 soccer matches (the HD coverage has been outstanding) could look on a 60" Pioneer Plasma!

Sports looks great on the Kuros but I would be worried watching soccer as the ZERO for both teams could get burned in.

Soccer looks unbelievable amazing on true wide HD. with 5.1 setup and Kuro it looks like you are actually sitting there at the stadium. Euro was a main reason I rushed with 6020. Yes, its potentially harmful to a TV since those ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD both have constant channel logo and information bar at the bottom. I am switching back and force between Zoom and Auto so those constant images do not stay long in one place.

Sports looks great on the Kuros but I would be worried watching soccer as the ZERO for both teams could get burned in.

It was only one 0:0 game so far and I was lucky not to watch that game so I did not burn my TV. joke:p

Anyone had any issues with the break-in DVD? I noticed last night that the DVD wasnt playing 2 of the darker grey shades. It would play white, then two slightly darker shades then switch to white again and start the transition to red, etc. It works fine on my other sony DVD player connected to an LCD, but will not show the darker grey colors on my sony DVD player connected to the 151 and they would also not show up on when I played them on my PS3 connected to the 151. I switched to the USB slideshow option and all the grey colors are showing up fine. With the HMG USB option there are 20 slides I put them on repeat set the diplay time for 30 seconds and there is about a 3 second black screen between colors is that correct and is it ok to play this for the full 150 hours of break in? The color shades are definitely different on the DVD versus the 20 slides. The slides are darker. I am just afraid of uneven ware on the phosphors. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Marc

Guys, I thought everyone was over the "Burn-In" hysteria.

The Wii has been used on my 150fd for hours, Ive played PC games for hours, even done web surfing - slide shows - and vid gazing for hours, all on a set that was a month old. And when on the PC setting, I was running it on dot by dot with orbiter off, and NOTHING, not a trace or hint of retention.

Remember, Burn-In is a severe case when the panel has been abused and it would take a long time for it to recover. Image Retention is far more likely (though still rare sans abuse) that can be fixed within minutes or hours, which is why it is called abuse to get Burn-In, since you have to completely ignore the signs of retention to truly damage the panel.

Ive been watching tons of soccer, and completely forgot about espns logos and bars, at least as it pertains to Burn-In. The only time I think of them is when I am constantly annoyed that they have to repeatedly tell me the same irrelevant facts minute after minute, especially when they do not pertain to watch Im watching. truly asinine.

Which also reminds me of the 720p 1080i/p hysteria. Those euro games (and everything hd on espn) is in 720p, and it looks fantastic on my 60" from 9' and closer!

Image Retention is far more likely (though still rare sans abuse) that can be fixed within minutes or hours, which is why it is called abuse to get Burn-In, since you have to completely ignore the signs of retention to truly damage the panel.

How do you get rid of retention? Sometimes I have a <half inch side line on the left of the screen which looks more like a shift/repetition of the video stream. it's usually gone when I switch channels/modes.
Not sure if it's retention or problem with cable/STB. I am new to plasma world.

Sorry guys, I had a harddrive failure last night and have to get a new hardrive today. :(

This is killing me :(, as my 5020/111 orders are on hold pending the outcome of your review. However, I appreciate your time and effort, and will wait for whatever you can share, whenever you are able :). Thanks.

How do you get rid of retention? Sometimes I have a <half inch side line on the left of the screen which looks more like a shift/repetition of the video stream. it's usually gone when I switch channels/modes.
Not sure if it's retention or problem with cable/STB. I am new to plasma world.

What you are seeing does not sound like image retention to me. Sounds like something from the STB.

Image retention is when you see a ghosted image of some still image/graphic that was on your screen for awhile - like a ticker or scoreboard. You should not experience this on a kuro. However, if you do for some reason, you get rid of it by watching full screen programming (no bars or graphics) or by running the break-in DVD. This will effectively wash the image retention.

What you are seeing does not sound like image retention to me. Sounds like something from the STB.

Image retention is when you see a ghosted image of some still image/graphic that was on your screen for awhile - like a ticker or scoreboard. You should not experience this on a kuro. However, if you do for some reason, you get rid of it by watching full screen programming (no bars or graphics) or by running the break-in DVD. This will effectively wash the image retention.

Thanks. I assume that this defect is coming from STB. As well as a green side line in DotbyDot mode - it was reported by few people including myself - and it was purely STB fault.

that's my point - based on the current info - the 5020 and the 6020 can not be calibrated. Let me reiterate - can not be calibrated. That's why i ordered a 151 (and i got an unbelievable price on it)

I assume you paid much more for your car. Do you ever have to tune it up? Or, do you expect it to never need it?

that's my point - based on the current info - the 5020 and the 6020 can not be calibrated. Let me reiterate - can not be calibrated.You mean to say, it cannot have it's grayscale calibrated to D65 per the SM :) RGB control's aren't going to do jack about the color points on the xx20 series.

yes, that is what i wanted to say - thank you.

You mean to say, it cannot have it's grayscale calibrated to D65 per the SM :) RGB control's aren't going to do jack about the color points on the xx20 series.

I have been Using the D-Nice reference settings on my 6020, but the skin tones still seem to be a little off. Hopefully there are additional tweaks on the way! :)

You mean to say, it cannot have it's grayscale calibrated to D65 per the SM :) RGB control's aren't going to do jack about the color points on the xx20 series.

So, it sounds like 6350K is it? Would you consider this "good enough" (without moving up to the Elite) for casual/daily viewing requirements? Or is the green push you observed going to be a sticking point in color accuracy?

So, it sounds like 6350K is it? Would you consider this "good enough" (without moving up to the Elite) for casual/daily viewing requirements?For the average person, yet. If you are video buff and MUST have D65, you will need to look at the Elites.

Or is the green push you observed going to be a sticking point in color accuracy?You mean oversaturated greens :)

You mean oversaturated greens :)

May I get a quick lesson here? Push means everything has a green tinge to it, whereas oversaturated means only the green is excessive? Would this also imply that any colors where the G component of the RGB mix is non-zero will be skewed towards green, but if G is 0 (only R and/or B), the colors will be fairly accurate?

Soccer looks unbelievable amazing on true wide HD. with 5.1 setup and Kuro it looks like you are actually sitting there at the stadium. Euro was a main reason I rushed with 6020. Yes, its potentially harmful to a TV since those ESPN HD and ESPN2 HD both have constant channel logo and information bar at the bottom. I am switching back and force between Zoom and Auto so those constant images do not stay long in one place.

Fortunately TSN HD and Sportsnet HD here in Canada do not use those bloody information bars (I hate those with a passion .... not only are they potentially damaging but are very distracting and annoying!!!), their logoes are quite faint and they occasionally remove the time/score block giving a nice clean screen.

Anyway, I am envious! I am watching Euro 2008 on my Sony tube set which gives me a 33" widescreen view.

My 5020 is scheduled to arrive this afternoon. Am so excited. Took the afternoon off from work, burned the break in dvd, made the right connections to my htpc and audio equipment. Most importantly, arranged to have the kids out of the house for the afternoon so I can setup the tv in peace :)

Waited so long, cannot believe the day is finally here.

Pics soon.

Since you only seem to complain about Pioneer and the 9G's ... why would you want one? :confused:


P.S. from the numerous posts of people complaining about your complaining ... I bet you could raise a lot more by having a 'get optivity to stop posting fund' :eek: :D Let's see... You have 82 posts and he has 10K.........Don’t forget spongebob that it is the “quality” of timberwolf10014’s 82 posts, like the “gem” above, that matter more than the “quantity” of mine.



Opti, if you can afford to pay full $7500 + tax for your Pro150 and take Ms Opti on all those cruises :):) do you really need donations?I'm getting kind of tired paying out 40% - 50% of my income in the form taxes & fees... it's time to get in line with my hand out for some of the freebies being given away.

:D

Well I have never had any issues with the cable cards otherwise I wouldnt be giving them such a good review. In fact I took the cable card out of my Sony 36 HDTV and put it into the 5010 when I got it. It has worked flawlessly in both TVs. If I was having the problems you mentioned I would have gone back to the cable box in a heartbeat. I have no tolerance for things that dont work right.
Maybe that is why Im on my 3rd marriage.......:DMy experience has been that CableCARDs are no more problematic than STBs, but cable companies provide minimal support for PODs that don't generate enough revenue to make it worthwhile.

I think for all D-Nice does for Pioneer he should get a pay check, or at the very least a free unit each year......

I thought D-Nice was uping a review on thursday can not find it on here have i missed it or somthing

I thought D-Nice was uping a review on thursday can not find it on here have i missed it or somthing

He had hard drive issues. Stay tuned...:)

I used the Digital video essentials BD-ROM last night a little. From what I was able to dial in using the Test patterns, The 6020 did pretty good.
Brightness was easy to dial in, and the end result for best brightness was -1 (same as D-Nice reference).

The optimal setting for the contrast per the Test pettern was 37 (D-Nice's reference was 38, which is about the same. Probably differs a little per set).

Using the Color decoder was a little tricky and I was unable to get it completly right. Red and Blue did perfect per the decoder included with the disk but I was unable to get the Green totally correct. And with no seperate controls for each color I don't think I ever will be able to (unless you can do it in the SM?). I found -2 to be just about as good as I could get it. (which is the same as D-Nice's reference again)

Contrast, Brightness, and color were the only test patterns I had time to do. I will do the others later.
So far the DVE disk has been a good learning tool, But so far I could have just used D-nices reference settings and called it a day.

chad, D-Nice's settings are a GREAT starting point, but every TV and viewing environment are different so a lot of people's settings will vary a bit.

I find DVE and AVIA useful because you an see how D-Nice's settings apply and what to look for as well. I find it especially useful for setting Grayscale, which I know the 6020 won't let you adjust, but still. It's better that you have that disc for future reference, anyway.

Sorry guys, I had a harddrive failure last night and have to get a new hardrive today. Hopefully I'll be able to post the review late tonight as I store all of my data on a secondary drive in my desktop PC :)

Sorry for the disappointment :(

And THAT is why I probably won't be able to afford an Elite. My computer is due for replacement. The hard drive often clicks when it starts up, one sign it's on its way out. Computer comes first, and that's also why I'm waiting for fall to buy a TV.

Anyone know where I can get a new 9g Kuro in Toronto? Do any of the forum sponsors ship to Canada for a reasonable price?

Something got messed up in shipping. Dealer is trying to help out with a saturday delivery - I'm counting on it coz theres NO way I can take another day off to take delivery!

chad, D-Nice's settings are a GREAT starting point, but every TV and viewing environment are different so a lot of people's settings will vary a bit.

I find DVE and AVIA useful because you an see how D-Nice's settings apply and what to look for as well. I find it especially useful for setting Grayscale, which I know the 6020 won't let you adjust, but still. It's better that you have that disc for future reference, anyway.

Yea, I think the DVE disk would be awesome to have for a television that allows you to adjust a fair amount of settings. But with the 6020, I kinda feel handicapped.

And THAT is why I probably won't be able to afford an Elite. My computer is due for replacement. The hard drive often clicks when it starts up, one sign it's on its way out. Computer comes first, and that's also why I'm waiting for fall to buy a TV.Why don't you just buy a new HDD (http://www.newegg.com/store/category.aspx?Category=15&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA) for $100?

Why don't you just buy a new HDD (http://www.newegg.com/store/category.aspx?Category=15&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA) for $100?

Word. Hard drives are dirt cheap these days, man--even the good ones. I would go to Anandtech.com, look up their HDD reviews to see who has the most reliable drive these days, and then buy one from Newegg. Installing them is an absolute snap, too, so there's really nothing to fear.

Yours,

David

Word. Hard drives are dirt cheap these days, man--even the good ones. I would go to Anandtech.com, look up their HDD reviews to see who has the most reliable drive these days, and then buy one from Newegg. Installing them is an absolute snap, too, so there's really nothing to fear.

Yours,

DavidHell, I'll send the guy a "licensed" copy of Ghost so he can clone his current HDD to the new one.

Actually, I am interested in upgrading to a X38 (http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/X48/index.htm) platform, if/when/never, the digital "gods" can get their HDCP (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/H/HDCP.html) house in order.

(does anyone know what "grub (http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/lawnchallenge/lesson7.html)" stands for, besides the bug that destroys a happy home owner's lawn?)

Best Buy told me that as the pioneers age, the picture actually gets better. I personally think those guys will tell you that if you buy whatever they tell you that 3 months later a genie will pop out of your shoes and grant you three wishes but for some reason, curiosity persueded me to ask about this. Anyone got any knowledge on this?


They are correct on this one.

Don’t forget spongebob that it is the “quality” of timberwolf10014’s 82 posts, like the “gem” above, that matter more than the “quantity” of mine.



I'm getting kind of tired paying out 40% - 50% of my income in the form taxes & fees... it's time to get in line with my hand out for some of the freebies being given away.

My experience has been that CableCARDs are no more problematic than STBs, but cable companies provide minimal support for PODs that don't generate enough revenue to make it worthwhile.

As I said I have been using the same cable card for around 3 yrs now with no problems with Cox Cable. I have had more problems with the cable box and HDMI issues.

Don’t forget spongebob that it is the “quality” of timberwolf10014’s 82 posts, like the “gem” above, that matter more than the “quantity” of mine

+1

(working on getting my count up ... since that seems to matter :D)

As I said I have been using the same cable card for around 3 yrs now with no problems with Cox Cable. I have had more problems with the cable box and HDMI issues.

Other than with BD and HD DVD players I would never use HDMI. Cable, Verizon and Satellite is best when connected via component video connections.

-Robert

I agree with Robert - I use component cables for 2 of my 3 sat boxes and can discern no difference in quality.

Other than with BD and HD DVD players I would never use HDMI. Cable, Verizon and Satellite is best when connected via component video connections.

-Robert

Robert, That's good to know. Why is that?

^^ Go DUKE !!

-Robert

Other than with BD and HD DVD players I would never use HDMI. Cable, Verizon and Satellite is best when connected via component video connections.

-Robert


Are you saying that the PQ with component is better than HDMI? I have never really seen a difference. The cable card of course doesnt use either of these.
Can you send me a nice Pioneer 60" so I can do some more tests?

Robert, That's good to know. Why is that?

Simply because component video's un-encoded and un-compressed analog output is at least as good as any digitized video and the HDCP ruins the HDMI experience by forcing the HDCP hand shaking that is unreliable and slows the response time for most commands.

Other than BD and HD DVD HDMI should not be used.

-Robert

(does anyone know what "grub (http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/lawnchallenge/lesson7.html)" stands for, besides the bug that destroys a happy home owner's lawn?)

you mean GNU Grand Unified Bootloader? I use it on my linux machine.

Are you saying that the PQ with component is better than HDMI? I have never really seen a difference. The cable card of course doesnt use either of these.
Can you send me a nice Pioneer 60" so I can do some more tests?

HDMI and component video deliver the same pq.

PM or email me with your address and I'll have your 60" Kuro delivered to your home. D-Nice's calibrated and signed panel is going to the highest bidder. Hey, let call it "The One and Only Limited Edition Signature Series"

-Robert

So let me get this clear, are you saying that lets say Directv will actually look better when hooked up with component cables? Is this a fact?

Simply because component video's un-encoded and un-compressed analog output is at least as good as any digitized video and the HDCP ruins the HDMI experience by forcing the HDCP hand shaking that is unreliable and slows the response time for most commands.

Other than BD and HD DVD HDMI should not be used.

-Robert

Thanks, Robert. That probably explains why my picture gets sloppy, ie. digital interference, everytime I change channels from one resolution to another with my Time Warner Cable DVR hooked up with HDMI. I'll get some component cables tomorrow!

I was at BB today and saw a 5020 next to a 6010 and a Panny pz85u all showing the same feed. One thing that was very noticeable was a delay (maybe a quarter of a second, probably significant if you're a gamer) on the 5020.

How much difference in price was it between the 6020 and 6010 or did they just have the 5020 and no 6020?

As far as a delay, i have a fhd1 hooked to a Pioneer 92txh receiver. In the den i can tell on an older Sony, they are talking just a second or so before my fhd1 does, so i have really looked to find any lag or delay watching people speak on my fhd1, it looks like they are right on sync. I caught one broadcast or show one time that wasn't since i have had the fhd1. It is weird if i have the Sony on and the fhd1 because it seems to be just behind the Sony(the sound). That one time it did, it did bother me and i wouldn't like that.

Quick question, i just ordered the pdp-151fd, and was wondering if there is a consensus on wall mounts for that model? I am looking for just a "tilt wall mount" nothing special, but high quality. Sorry if this question is redundant, but I'm new, and not to "hip" on if I can just buy ANY 60" plasma wall mount?

thanks, I really appreciate all the info I learn here.
-Mike:)

HDMI and component video deliver the same pq.

PM or email me with your address and I'll have your 60" Kuro delivered to your home. D-Nice's calibrated and signed panel is going to the highest bidder. Hey, let call it "The One and Only Limited Edition Signature Series"

-Robert

Ok I understand what you are saying. The HDMI is a pain when you are switching to different inputs because you get that long delay as it goes through the handshake. I am using all 4 of my hdmi inputs on my 5010 and 1 of the component. The component is a lot smoother when switching.

Yes that Pioneer 60 panel is awesome. It is just a real stretch for me to afford it.

Is monitoroutlet a good place to get a 6020 from? I got mine from them for 4,180.00 with free shipping. It almost seemed too good to be true but it got here fast and in good condition.

I thought D-Nice was uping a review on thursday can not find it on here have i missed it or somthing

yup you missed his post #5604 that explained the delay to another member who asked where it was.

D-nice
"Sorry guys, I had a harddrive failure last night and have to get a new hardrive today. Hopefully I'll be able to post the review late tonight as I store all of my data on a secondary drive in my desktop PC

Sorry for the disappointment :( "

Is monitoroutlet a good place to get a 6020 from? I got mine from them for 4,180.00 with free shipping. It almost seemed too good to be true but it got here fast and in good condition.

OK you guys are making me want to sell my 5010 and get a 6020. Please stop torturing me.

Is monitoroutlet a good place to get a 6020 from? I got mine from them for 4,180.00 with free shipping. It almost seemed too good to be true but it got here fast and in good condition.

just consider the total as the shipping is included in the price anyway when it says "free shipping"....... you coulda got it fast and cheaper from an avs forum sponsor. but it's in good condition so congrats and enjoy the new Kuro welcome to the club:).

Simply because component video's un-encoded and un-compressed analog output is at least as good as any digitized video and the HDCP ruins the HDMI experience by forcing the HDCP hand shaking that is unreliable and slows the response time for most commands.

Other than BD and HD DVD HDMI should not be used.

-Robert

It sounds like you are saying, that the video quality is exactly the same between the two type of connections.

What is this "HDMI experience" you speak of?

And what commands are "slowed down" because of "unreliable" HDCP hand shaking?

What can help improve "hand shaking?

Would getting all Pioneer equipment help?

Other than with BD and HD DVD players I would never use HDMI. Cable, Verizon and Satellite is best when connected via component video connections.

-Robert

According to the 5020 manual, component is only available on one input while HDMI has 4. Shouldn't they have more component connections?

Whats the cheapest I could get a 151 elite on here? Oh and does anyone know if the 151 is brighter than the 6020?

It sounds like you are saying, that the video quality is exactly the same between the two type of connections.

What is this "HDMI experience" you speak of?

And what commands are "slowed down" because of "unreliable" HDCP hand shaking?

What can help improve "hand shaking?

Would getting all Pioneer equipment help?

I'm going home after a 18 hr day. But I do want to say that this has nothing to do with the synergy appreciated with connecting Pioneer SC05/07 AVR, BDP-51FD/05FD BD player and any 8G and or any 9G Kuro. Their exclusive benefits of improved audio and video performance is independent of my HDMI vs component video claims.

-Robert

According to the 5020 manual, component is only available on one input while HDMI has 4. Shouldn't they have more component connections?

No because the world is going HDMI. Further, you only need one component input to connect your cable, Verizon or satellite box via component video. Your HD DVD and BD player need HDMI. And OTA is connected directly from the OTA antenna via coax directly to the TV input so its internal ATSC tuner can do its job.

More to come tomorrow and for those who attend my TV educational classes at my store 7/18-19/08. See you there.

Good night and good luck....

-Robert

Is monitoroutlet a good place to get a 6020 from? I got mine from them for 4,180.00 with free shipping. It almost seemed too good to be true but it got here fast and in good condition.

The forum sponsors are less expensive.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/dvihdmicomponent.htm

Short answer "it depends" on several things so it seems like you have to check for the equipment your using.


"You may even find, say, that your DVD player looks better through its HDMI output, while your satellite or cable box looks better through its component output, on the same display. In this case, there's no real substitute for simply plugging it in and giving it a try both ways."

Thanks, Robert. That probably explains why my picture gets sloppy, ie. digital interference, everytime I change channels from one resolution to another with my Time Warner Cable DVR hooked up with HDMI. I'll get some component cables tomorrow!

Please let us know if you actually see a difference .... better, worse or same.

Whats the cheapest I could get a 151 elite on here? Oh and does anyone know if the 151 is brighter than the 6020?

i heard 5gs

If there is anyone out there that can mail me a break-in DVD for my 6020 for $10 or $20 or whatever please pm me.

If there is anyone out there that can mail me a break-in DVD for my 6020 for $10 or $20 or whatever please pm me.

LTC, you can order one for $6.50 here. http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm
I had an extra one, but was accidently put out with the trash today.

If there is anyone out there that can mail me a break-in DVD for my 6020 for $10 or $20 or whatever please pm me.

http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm

Other than BD and HD DVD HDMI should not be used.
-Robert

Now you're freaking me out. I happen to be getting a terrific panel from a GREAT forum sponsor - but my panel has four HDMI inputs and only one component input.

Here's an interesting little tidbit from HDTVexpert.com about that XBR8 vs. Pioneer showcase Sony held a few weeks ago:http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Sony2008BraviaShowcase.html

Upstairs, Sony showed the cream of the crop - two XBR8-series LCD HDTVs, equipped with Triluminous LED backlights that use local dimming for lower black levels and higher contrast. In the demo, Sony’s 55-inch KDL-55XBR8 was paired off against an “unnamed” current model 50-inch plasma “that begins with a P.”

Results? The LCD black levels were really deep and colors popped off the screen. The “unnamed” plasma was later determined to be a Pioneer model, but apparently not from the KURO line, as its black levels were too high (and maybe set that way). The 46-inch KDL-46XBR8 also uses Triluminous backlighting, based on small LED arrays with two green emitters, one red emitter, and one blue emitter (no word on how many arrays are used in the 55-inch and 46-inch backlights).

I have no idea what panel Sony used as a comparison to the XBR8, but judging from the photos that have been posted, I seriously doubt it was a Kuro.

So, the next time you see some idiot (you know who they are:D) spewing BS about how much better the XBR8s are going to be, just ignore them, 'cause until these panels are actually available, they don't what the **** they're talking about.

So let's get this straight...

There is NO POINT on getting an HDMI cable box??? :confused:

Is this because the stations braodcast are NOT 1080p?

Also, is there any way to hook up a cable box in component AS WELL AS a DVD recorder that is ONLY component to the Kuro?

Would I need a switcher? Or could I do this through my stereo receiver?

Reason I need to know is...I was going to order my HDMI cables from MonoPrice and I need to know if I should order one for the Cable Box and switch cable boxes to the 4250 instead of the 3250 I already have.

Thanks for any info in advance!

Simply because component video's un-encoded and un-compressed analog output is at least as good as any digitized video and the HDCP ruins the HDMI experience by forcing the HDCP hand shaking that is unreliable and slows the response time for most commands.

Other than BD and HD DVD HDMI should not be used.

-Robert


So, my DTV HD DVR (HR20-700) should look better into my 720P NEC plasma with component? I tried both when I got it and thought hdmi looked better but I'll try again.


thx


bob

So let's get this straight...

There is NO POINT on getting an HDMI cable box??? :confused:Of course there is a reason to get a STB with HDMI. There is also a reason to get a STB that includes DVR capability. Robert and many others take one philosophical point of view, and other folks take a different position. It's up to you to pick the approach that works best for you. :)

Is this because the stations braodcast are NOT 1080p?It's more complicated than that. Many cable or satelite boxes force you to select a single output resolution. I happen to have one of those boxes. :eek:

I use HDMI and force all output to 1080i. That means that the Fox, ABC, and ESPN (720p) channels get some misstreatment (converted from 720p to 1080i) before they are output. Also analog 480i channels are converted to digital 1080i by the STB which isn't a very good video processor. None of that is ideal.

On the other hand, all the other digital HDTV channels are 1080i, which means they are passed on to my display without the STB messing with them. That seems ideal to me.

If I use a component connection with my STB, all outputs have to be converted from digital to analog. When those signals reach the TV they have to be converted back to digital before they can be displayed.

For me, getting all HDTV channels passed through our STB, except Fox, ABC, and ESPN, is the best choice for my viewing habits. The signal stays digital the whole way to our screen, and I don't notice anything that bugs me when I watch football on Fox, ABC or ESPN. I don't have any interest in the analog 480i channels. A component connection might cover up some of their problems, but they work fine when we watch tennis, but not so good when watching hocky in SD. Again, that's a personal choice.

Some STBs have a native mode that will pass the original signal. If you use HDMI then you will get a few seconds of scrambled signal as the STB and the display establish a new hand shake each time you change to a channel with a different resolution. Some folks, who are not channel hoppers get along fine with that setup. Using a component connection will eliminate the handshake problem, but you still have the double conversion from digital to analog and back again for all channels including HD.

All this amounts to each person having to chose the setup that best satisfies their needs.

Also, is there any way to hook up a cable box in component AS WELL AS a DVD recorder that is ONLY component to the Kuro?

Would I need a switcher? Or could I do this through my stereo receiver?Again, your choice.

Reason I need to know is...I was going to order my HDMI cables from MonoPrice and I need to know if I should order one for the Cable Box and switch cable boxes to the 4250 instead of the 3250 I already have.In most cases good HDMI cables are cheaper than good quality component cable, so it's probably cheaper to test HDMI first.

I run HDMI directly from the STB to the 6010, and a digital optical cable for audio to our receiver. You can substitute component for HDMI and use the same setup. Or, if you have a component only DVD player, you can run it and the STB to your receiver (depending on which one you have) using component. Then another set of component cables to the TV. That's nine video cables plus two digital audio cables. :eek:

Our Kuro 6010 has three device connected to it using a HDMI connection -- the STB, HTPC, and A/V Receiver.

Our A/V Receiver has a HD-DVD player connected to it using HDMI. We will be adding a new Blu-ray DVD player (Roger!;)) soon. It will also be connected to the receiver using HDMI. Both the STB and the HTPC have a digital audio cable connected to the A/V receiver. We didn't install the 6010's speakers. If you want audio from your TV then you need more cables. ;)

Of course there is a reason to get a STB with HDMI. There is also a reason to get a STB that includes DVR capability. Robert and many others take one philosophical point of view, and other folks take a different position. It's up to you to pick the approach that works best for you. :)

It's more complicated than that. Many cable or satelite boxes force you to select a single output resolution. I happen to have one of those boxes. :eek:

I use HDMI and force all output to 1080i. That means that the Fox, ABC, and ESPN (720p) channels get some misstreatment (converted from 720p to 1080i) before they are output. Also analog 480i channels are converted to digital 1080i by the STB which isn't a very good video processor. None of that is ideal.

On the other hand, all the other digital HDTV channels are 1080i, which means they are passed on to my display without the STB messing with them. That seems ideal to me.

If I use a component connection with my STB, all outputs have to be converted from digital to analog. When those signals reach the TV they have to be converted back to digital before they can be displayed.

For me, getting all HDTV channels passed through our STB, except Fox, ABC, and ESPN, is the best choice for my viewing habits. The signal stays digital the whole way to our screen, and I don't notice anything that bugs me when I watch football on Fox, ABC or ESPN. I don't have any interest in the analog 480i channels. A component connection might cover up some of their problems, but they work fine when we watch tennis, but not so good when watching hocky in SD. Again, that's a personal choice.

Some STBs have a native mode that will pass the original signal. If you use HDMI then you will get a few seconds of scrambled signal as the STB and the display establish a new hand shake each time you change to a channel with a different resolution. Some folks, who are not channel hoppers get along fine with that setup. Using a component connection will eliminate the handshake problem, but you still have the double conversion from digital to analog and back again for all channels including HD.

All this amounts to each person having to chose the setup that best satisfies their needs.

Again, your choice.

In most cases good HDMI cables are cheaper than good quality component cable, so it's probably cheaper to test HDMI first.

I run HDMI directly from the STB to the 6010, and a digital optical cable for audio to our receiver. You can substitute component for HDMI and use the same setup. Or, if you have a component only DVD player, you can run it and the STB to your receiver (depending on which one you have) using component. Then another set of component cables to the TV. That's nine video cables plus two digital audio cables. :eek:

Our Kuro 6010 has three device connected to it using a HDMI connection -- the STB, HTPC, and A/V Receiver.

Our A/V Receiver has a HD-DVD player connected to it using HDMI. We will be adding a new Blu-ray DVD player (Roger!;)) soon. It will also be connected to the receiver using HDMI. Both the STB and the HTPC have a digital audio cable connected to the A/V receiver. We didn't install the 6010's speakers. If you want audio from your TV then you need more cables. ;)

You explained it well.
In my case, I use a Motorola DCT6412 HD-DVR. This box has both HDMI and Component. So I use Both.
I have a monoprice HDMI cable AND a high quality Component cable both hooked up to the Box and TV.
I usually use HDMI For HD channels and HD On-demand. But if I am watching a Standard Def channel I switch over to Component.

Well...here is my scenario and maybe someone can explain my best setup...

Right now I have everything COMPONENT as I have nothing that can use HDMI except for my PS3. Right now my current TV is 1080i rear projection HDTV - no HDMI. I have a DVD recorder - no HDMI. I have a receiver - no HDMI. I have a SA 3250 cable box - no HDMI (has DVI, but I use component).

I am getting a KURO and was wondering how to hook things up so I can buy appropriate cables, etc...

I want to know if there is any point to switch the SA 3250 cable box for the SA 4250 cable box that uses HDMI or component?

Otherwise, I figure I only need 1 HDMI cable for the PS3, right?

I'm going home after a 18 hr day. But I do want to say that this has nothing to do with the synergy appreciated with connecting Pioneer SC05/07 AVR, BDP-51FD/05FD BD player and any 8G and or any 9G Kuro. Their exclusive benefits of improved audio and video performance is independent of my HDMI vs component video claims.

-Robert

I have 2 questions:

1. Will use of component video (instead of HDMI) on a STB limit the audio quality in any way? I don't think any STB can deliver HD audio yet, but I thought I remember reading that they can do Dolby Digital Plus. I suppose that using a digital optical audio cable in conjunction with component video could alleviate any audio hindrance?

2. Why did you not list the 94-txh? It is supposed to have almost all of the same capabilities as the sc05/07, utilizes the SR+ connection, does all the HD audio codecs... shouldn't the 94 work with a 9G with the same synergy? I've been reading about the differences and so far have failed to identify what separates the new sc05/07... maybe an improved GUI?

Here's an interesting little tidbit from HDTVexpert.com about that XBR8 vs. Pioneer showcase Sony held a few weeks ago:http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Sony2008BraviaShowcase.html



I have no idea what panel Sony used as a comparison to the XBR8, but judging from the photos that have been posted, I seriously doubt it was a Kuro.

So, the next time you see some idiot (you know who they are:D) spewing BS about how much better the XBR8s are going to be, just ignore them, 'cause until these panels are actually available, they don't what the **** they're talking about.

Agreed. Everyone should go buy a Sony.. and Pioneer and side by side them in a house to test it. :D The only true and tried way.

Or.. we can do the usual... Photo and Flame Wars!

Why don't you just buy a new HDD (http://www.newegg.com/store/category.aspx?Category=15&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA) for $100?

Thanks for the link to newegg, and I am going to check them out. The hard drive has been the main reason for the switch, but the computer (a Mac G4) is also seven years old and has only a 466MHz processor. I've begun to find that some internet pages don't load or don't load well (they do at work, but that's a more powerful machine). My G4 has two hard drives and I could switch over to the other one. But the processor would still be an issue, and newer software would do best on a new machine.

As for the TV, the delay (projecting October) allows me to digest the new TVs, especially those at Robert's shoot-out. And to put a bit more money away should I decide that the extra money AND form factor issues of the Elite (if tht's my choice) won't be an issue. Right now, they are, and so the 5020 is still the front runner.

The forum sponsors are less expensive.

Holy hand of Buddha that is a good deal then. Really wish they would ship to Canada somehow. For those kind of prices I could upgrade to a bigger size or go Elite and still end up paying less than I ever could hope for in Canada.

Here's an interesting little tidbit from HDTVexpert.com about that XBR8 vs. Pioneer showcase Sony held a few weeks ago:http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Sony2008BraviaShowcase.html



I have no idea what panel Sony used as a comparison to the XBR8, but judging from the photos that have been posted, I seriously doubt it was a Kuro.

So, the next time you see some idiot (you know who they are:D) spewing BS about how much better the XBR8s are going to be, just ignore them, 'cause until these panels are actually available, they don't what the **** they're talking about.

Agreed. Everyone should go buy a Sony.. and Pioneer and side by side them in a house to test it. :D The only true and tried way.

Or.. we can do the usual... Photo and Flame Wars!

I had started a thread on that article a couple of weeks ago called "XBR8 vs Kuro" in the "flat panel General and FP Tech" Forum.
It got kinda heated between D-Nice and the usual Kuro trolls. But it was interesting.
Unfortunatly, The Mods locked the Thread. :(
Myself, I would bet money that the Plasma in that article was not a Kuro. It had a blue screen when powered off and as anyone who knows kuros knows, These babys are black!

Well...here is my scenario and maybe someone can explain my best setup...

Right now I have everything COMPONENT as I have nothing that can use HDMI except for my PS3. Right now my current TV is 1080i rear projection HDTV - no HDMI. I have a DVD recorder - no HDMI. I have a receiver - no HDMI. I have a SA 3250 cable box - no HDMI (has DVI, but I use component).

I am getting a KURO and was wondering how to hook things up so I can buy appropriate cables, etc...

I want to know if there is any point to switch the SA 3250 cable box for the SA 4250 cable box that uses HDMI or component?

Otherwise, I figure I only need 1 HDMI cable for the PS3, right?

I tell you what I would do. I would get the cheapest Yamaha or Dennon receiver with at least 2-3 HDMI inputs and the ability to upscale or reroute its component inputs to its HDMI output. Then I would put everything I got, HDMI, component, what have you into the receiver and let it output everything over a single HDMI cable into the Kuro.

Then there would never be any need to change the channel on the TV, only switch between outputs on the receiver. It will minimize the clutter of cables going up to the Kuro and in general behind the entertainment center. I would also always choose HDMI over component because of 2 reasons.

1: I hate analogue interfaces and all the problems they potentially can bring to the table.

2: A single digital HDMI cable does the job of 5 analogue cables (3 component and 2 audio) which reduces the spaghetti of cables behind ones setup.

The Yamaha RX-V663 can be had for about 500$ and seems to fit the bill in the above scenario.

http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm

Thanks. Only $6.95 too. Bargain. Two weeks ago my soon to be 3 year old son says he pulled an orange part out of my dvd drive so I currently have no cd/dvd playback on my Dell computer. Of course he does not know what he did with the part, either, so I can't just snap it back in.

Anybody know where I can get a cheap replacement cd/dvd/dvd-rw drive for a Dell Inspiron 1720??:)

Thanks for the Advice K!

Not sure if I will be able to get the new receiver after paying all the dough for the Kuro - at least not at this point...

Would it matter if I don't care about the wires behind?

Just curious...cause right now I don't have to change channels anyways, as I just use the cable box to do that...and use the receiver to switch inputs/outputs.

I keep reading everywhere on the net, that there is NO DIFFERENCE between HDMI and component for video through a cable box. In fact, I keep reading that it is LESS HASSLE to use component as HDMI causes all sorts of issues with the cable boxes I have a choice from through my cable company (SA 4250 or SA 8300 PVR).

Of course there is a reason to get a STB with HDMI. There is also a reason to get a STB that includes DVR capability. Robert and many others take one philosophical point of view, and other folks take a different position. It's up to you to pick the approach that works best for you. :)

It's more complicated than that. Many cable or satelite boxes force you to select a single output resolution. I happen to have one of those boxes. :eek:

I use HDMI and force all output to 1080i. That means that the Fox, ABC, and ESPN (720p) channels get some misstreatment (converted from 720p to 1080i) before they are output. Also analog 480i channels are converted to digital 1080i by the STB which isn't a very good video processor. None of that is ideal.

On the other hand, all the other digital HDTV channels are 1080i, which means they are passed on to my display without the STB messing with them. That seems ideal to me.

If I use a component connection with my STB, all outputs have to be converted from digital to analog. When those signals reach the TV they have to be converted back to digital before they can be displayed.

For me, getting all HDTV channels passed through our STB, except Fox, ABC, and ESPN, is the best choice for my viewing habits. The signal stays digital the whole way to our screen, and I don't notice anything that bugs me when I watch football on Fox, ABC or ESPN. I don't have any interest in the analog 480i channels. A component connection might cover up some of their problems, but they work fine when we watch tennis, but not so good when watching hocky in SD. Again, that's a personal choice.

Some STBs have a native mode that will pass the original signal. If you use HDMI then you will get a few seconds of scrambled signal as the STB and the display establish a new hand shake each time you change to a channel with a different resolution. Some folks, who are not channel hoppers get along fine with that setup. Using a component connection will eliminate the handshake problem, but you still have the double conversion from digital to analog and back again for all channels including HD.

All this amounts to each person having to chose the setup that best satisfies their needs.

Again, your choice.

In most cases good HDMI cables are cheaper than good quality component cable, so it's probably cheaper to test HDMI first.

I run HDMI directly from the STB to the 6010, and a digital optical cable for audio to our receiver. You can substitute component for HDMI and use the same setup. Or, if you have a component only DVD player, you can run it and the STB to your receiver (depending on which one you have) using component. Then another set of component cables to the TV. That's nine video cables plus two digital audio cables. :eek:

Our Kuro 6010 has three device connected to it using a HDMI connection -- the STB, HTPC, and A/V Receiver.

Our A/V Receiver has a HD-DVD player connected to it using HDMI. We will be adding a new Blu-ray DVD player (Roger!;)) soon. It will also be connected to the receiver using HDMI. Both the STB and the HTPC have a digital audio cable connected to the A/V receiver. We didn't install the 6010's speakers. If you want audio from your TV then you need more cables. ;)



Just to confirm, if I AM NOT using the 6020 speakers and I am running everything through my Denon 3808CI/ B&W 5.1 speakers do I need any other connection other than an HDMI cable from my TV to the Denon 3808CI?

Hey all I am wondering if anyone knows of elite dealers in the Detroit area? Or if anyone can recommend a fourm sponser that will ship to this area.
I am in Canada and about to close a deal on the Canadian 9G group buy but want to compare prices on a 111FD, if it is that much cheaper across the border then that's who will get my business.

If this is posted in the wrong area please move it or scold me accordingly.

Thanks

I tell you what I would do. I would get the cheapest Yamaha or Dennon receiver with at least 2-3 HDMI inputs and the ability to upscale or reroute its component inputs to its HDMI output. Then I would put everything I got, HDMI, component, what have you into the receiver and let it output everything over a single HDMI cable into the Kuro.


I am planning on setting up everything this way as well. However, if you use the SR+ feature between an Elite AVR and a Kuro, it will provide even better functionality:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll128/FilmMIxer/SC09SR.jpg


1: I hate analogue interfaces and all the problems they potentially can bring to the table.

2: A single digital HDMI cable does the job of 5 analogue cables (3 component and 2 audio) which reduces the spaghetti of cables behind ones setup.

The Yamaha RX-V663 can be had for about 500$ and seems to fit the bill in the above scenario.

This is another reason why I like HDMI. I feel like if both my AVR and TV are the same brand and there are no handshake issues, then HDMI is a better way to go. Not only does it reduce the amount of cables, but it is also the only way to pass any of the new HD audio codecs. Even Digital optical audio cables (Toslink) cannot pass HD audio codecs, from what I have read.

http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm
DOES THE BREAK IN DVD HELP IDENTIFY DEAD PIXELS...... AND IF SO HOW DOES A DEAD PIXEL LOOK LIKE?

IS IT TRUE THAT THE EXCESSIVE BLACKS IN PIONEER KUROS ARE KILLING THE DETAILS OF THE PICTURE

Thanks for the Advice K!

Not sure if I will be able to get the new receiver after paying all the dough for the Kuro - at least not at this point...

Would it matter if I don't care about the wires behind?

Just curious...cause right now I don't have to change channels anyways, as I just use the cable box to do that...and use the receiver to switch inputs/outputs.

I keep reading everywhere on the net, that there is NO DIFFERENCE between HDMI and component for video through a cable box. In fact, I keep reading that it is LESS HASSLE to use component as HDMI causes all sorts of issues with the cable boxes I have a choice from through my cable company (SA 4250 or SA 8300 PVR).

If you don't care about many cables behind your set and don't want to buy a new receiver then just route all your component cables to your TV via the your current receiver and just hook up the PS3 directly via HDMI. I assume your receiver does have component switching?

If not then the single (it is just the one, right?) component input on the Kuro won't be enough for all your component devices. In that case you might have to go with a HDMI box to reduce the component input usage.

The HDMI problems with the boxes, I imagine, might just be because most of them are cheaply make crap, not designed to be hooked up to 4000$ equipment.

Thanks. Only $6.95 too. Bargain. Two weeks ago my soon to be 3 year old son says he pulled an orange part out of my dvd drive so I currently have no cd/dvd playback on my Dell computer. Of course he does not know what he did with the part, either, so I can't just snap it back in.

Anybody know where I can get a cheap replacement cd/dvd/dvd-rw drive for a Dell Inspiron 1720??:)

Check out newegg.com.

I am planning on setting up everything this way as well. However, if you use the SR+ feature between an Elite AVR and a Kuro, it will provide even better functionality:

That looks nice. Unfortunately when I checked out the Pioneer receivers they left me wanting in a lot of other areas, though I cannot remember which now. Right now I think I will be going with the new Denon's, but I will have to give those Elite AVR's another gander before I purchase.

The HDMI problems with the boxes, I imagine, might just be because most of them are cheaply make crap, not designed to be hooked up to 4000$ equipment.


BINGO!

I am just hoping that they make a better more state of the art box...as I am confined to 1 Cable Company living in an apartment that has exclusive rights with this company...(ROGERS)...so I am stuck with what they can offer...can't get satellite or anything (in the lease).

Yes - I do have component switching so it is all good...I will just run everything via component, the PS3 via HDMI and get an extra HDMI cable (Monoprice :)) just in case a future STB comes a calling!

No because the world is going HDMI. Further, you only need one component input to connect your cable, Verizon or satellite box via component video. Your HD DVD and BD player need HDMI. And OTA is connected directly from the OTA antenna via coax directly to the TV input so its internal ATSC tuner can do its job.

-Robert

Actually, I need the component input to connect my HD camcorder to the plasma, as it an older model w/o HDMI.

I run my OTA through the Dish HD DVR so I can record events and timeshift. Forgot about the potential loss of PQ due to all the resolution changes happening. I hate to split my incoming signal, but may have to revisit when the new Pioneer arrives.

Hey all I am wondering if anyone knows of elite dealers in the Detroit area? Or if anyone can recommend a fourm sponser that will ship to this area.
I am in Canada and about to close a deal on the Canadian 9G group buy but want to compare prices on a 111FD, if it is that much cheaper across the border then that's who will get my business.

If this is posted in the wrong area please move it or scold me accordingly.

Thanks

Try Audio/Video System in Royal Oak and Gramophone in Birmingham. There are probably others, too.

Try Audio/Video System in Royal Oak and Gramophone in Birmingham. There are probably others, too.

Gramaphone quoted me MSRP for the pre-order. I found one dealer on the west side of the state which quoted 5% discount. He also said this was the best they gave when on sale.

Hey all I am wondering if anyone knows of elite dealers in the Detroit area? Or if anyone can recommend a fourm sponser that will ship to this area.

Check with the first two names on this list (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14091440#post14091440).

Anybody else getting a warning message on there 6020 or 5020 that says
(powering up?) when turning it on...

Just randomly started getting this a few days ago??

HOW DOES A DEAD PIXEL LOOK LIKE?
Dead pixels don't light up -- in other words they are always black.

IS IT TRUE THAT THE EXCESSIVE BLACKS IN PIONEER KUROS ARE KILLING THE DETAILS OF THE PICTURE
No.

You know, I think we forgot something important about the new optimum
mode on the 9G's. There's a difference between the Elites and the non-elite
that I think we should consider:

The elites have an external sensor (that apparently YOU have to hook up to
the TV) which analyzes room colour conditions and such. I'm not talking a
brightness sensor, but a colour one. I mean, after all, colour from external
light sources do affect perceived image colours. Has anyone with an elite
made any comments on how good optimum mode is on their TV using this
sensor. I read that it's pretty good for the non-elite, but that TV doesn't use
this sensor (which I think is a sham if the sensor makes optimum better).

Just curious.

Edit: Notice what the fellow in the video below is saying about this sensor.
It not only analyzes the colour but the temperature as well. This suggests
that gamma levels are indeed being adjusted:

http://www.marketnews.ca/videos_detail.asp?vid=131

PS - In the video, the fellow says the monitor is the same price as the elite.
(This is in Canada, by the way)

The Yamaha RX-V663 can be had for about 500$ and seems to fit the bill in the above scenario.The Onkyo 606 is also available at the same price in the US.

Just to confirm, if I AM NOT using the 6020 speakers and I am running everything through my Denon 3808CI/ B&W 5.1 speakers do I need any other connection other than an HDMI cable from my TV to the Denon 3808CI?No. That's what I'm doing from a Denon 3806 to a 6010. My speakers aren't as good as yours, but the hookup is fine. The Denon 3806 only has two HDMI inputs so I reserve those for high definition DVD inputs. ;)

Anybody else getting a warning message on there 6020 or 5020 that says
(powering up?) when turning it on...

Just randomly started getting this a few days ago??You might get a better response in the owner's thread for non-Elite 9G Kuro panels.

What does text optimization do to degrade the PQ as it suggetsts not to use it in the forum?

I am planning on setting up everything this way as well. However, if you use the SR+ feature between an Elite AVR and a Kuro, it will provide even better functionality:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll128/FilmMIxer/SC09SR.jpg



This is another reason why I like HDMI. I feel like if both my AVR and TV are the same brand and there are no handshake issues, then HDMI is a better way to go. Not only does it reduce the amount of cables, but it is also the only way to pass any of the new HD audio codecs. Even Digital optical audio cables (Toslink) cannot pass HD audio codecs, from what I have read.

where do you get the cable for the SR+ features?

where do you get the cable for the SR+ features?

From Pioneer:

The 3-ringed SR+ cable from Pioneer is commercially available under the part number ADE7095. Contact the Pioneer Customer Support division for more information on obtaining an SR+ cable (you can also use a commercially available 3-ringed mini phone plug for the connection).

Would + 5 on performance be too much? It seems +5 is the only setting for brightness where I can see detail in dark scenes. What brightness level would you reccomend for performance mode? If anyone knows the answer to this please let me know. Ive been wrestling with this for awhile now.

I have a 6020. I'm hooking up my computer via the computer monitor jack. It defaulted to displaying 800x600. Are there display drivers i can use? the computer just detects the 6020 as generic monitor. I can switch around the resolution but i can't figure out which one works the best. If it matters i'm using an ati aiw card.

faffle,

if your pc has a dvi connection, ue a dvi to hdmi cable, thats the best possible connection you can have between the two.

and if you dont have it, consider upgradeing your video card, if you plan to game at 1080p youre going to need the extra horsepower anyway.

From Pioneer:

The 3-ringed SR+ cable from Pioneer is commercially available under the part number ADE7095. Contact the Pioneer Customer Support division for more information on obtaining an SR+ cable (you can also use a commercially available 3-ringed mini phone plug for the connection).


This is correct. Someone else in the 94-txh thread advised that the cord is called a "6 ft Mini AV 3.5mm 4-pole plug A/V camcorder cable M/M" and a generic version can be had on ebay for less (currently $5 shipped). The Pioneer cable retails for $33.50 (currently $34.32 on ebay).

hey guys... i was just about to buy the 5010 when i went to the pioneer website and saw the 5020.... i had no idea it was coming out and thank god i saw it on there... i will likely buy my plasma online and have found some decent prices... from known online dealers, the 5010 is for about $2800 and the 5020 for about $3000 (give or take on both).... so if i am spending this much, i much rather have the 5020 since it sounds as though it will be much nicer....

i am waiting for the full review though... and especially how it stacks up againsta not only the older generation pioneers, but its competitors as well, specifically the panny 800u.... apparently, d-nice is getting a little something reay for all of us... so any word on when it will be available??? and also, will it have the above comparo's that i mentioned???

thanks in advance...

Just to confirm, if I AM NOT using the 6020 speakers and I am running everything through my Denon 3808CI/ B&W 5.1 speakers do I need any other connection other than an HDMI cable from my TV to the Denon 3808CI?

I have a similar 5.1 set-up and am not using the 6020's speakers. A single HDMI cable from my receiver to the 6020 is sufficient.

DOES THE BREAK IN DVD HELP IDENTIFY DEAD PIXELS...... AND IF SO HOW DOES A DEAD PIXEL LOOK LIKE?

IS IT TRUE THAT THE EXCESSIVE BLACKS IN PIONEER KUROS ARE KILLING THE DETAILS OF THE PICTURE

Yes..... Stuck off or stuck on a particular color.

No.

The HDMI problems with the boxes, I imagine, might just be because most of them are cheaply make crap, not designed to be hooked up to 4000$ equipment.

Oppo makes an excellent HDMI switch box. Check it out at www.oppodigital.com

Ok Guys I am looking to buy the 5020 this week.. I see Amazon is now selling these. I have heard that Amazon offers the best return policy.. stuck pixels, buzzing they will take it in and swap it for you , while with other companies may be stuck.. do you guys trust such a high price item with amazon.. or if i go with a one of the avs sponsers like robert would that be best.. Also as far as warranties for this tv.. what company should i purchase a ext warranty.... if i go with amazon do i get the one they use or do i go with another warranty seperate how about if i choose robert at value electronics..

Eddy13,
You can't go wrong with Robert at VE. Excellent customer service and very

knowledgeable. I got my 6020 from him last week with "white glove" delivery. All I can

say is fantastic!!!
Ralph

Could someone please list the best settings to use for the performance preset in a moderately lit room. The content will be 1080i Directv HDDVR. I know this setting is not reccomended but I like it so if someone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.

You can't go wrong

That's really way too strong of a statement.

In the past 3 weeks of reading the 9g threads, I've seen reported around a half-dozen separate types of flaws in the 9g that people have run across so far that are not things any forum dealer will allow you to return the panel for.

If you were to calculate on a percentage basis the reports of 9g panels I've read about on here that were totally flawless it is probably only 70%. That's my guess but I'm not going to go tabulate it. Pioneer's quality control on these panels is clearly nowhere near the levels many AVS forum members desire, so it's roulette at this point whether you get a perfect one or not.

Buying from a forum dealer is a great deal except you have a SIGNIFICANT non-zero percent chance you're going to get stuck with some kind of flaw that you'll either have to live with or go round n' round for months with Pioneer over.

Due solely to this, I am going to have to get my 6020 from Amazon. Now if they would only discount it as much as their other plasmas...

That's really way too strong of a statement.

In the past 3 weeks of reading the 9g threads, I've seen reported around a half-dozen separate types of flaws in the 9g that people have run across so far that are not things any forum dealer will allow you to return the panel for.

If you were to calculate on a percentage basis the reports of 9g panels I've read about on here that were totally flawless it is probably only 70%. That's my guess but I'm not going to go tabulate it. Pioneer's quality control on these panels is clearly nowhere near the levels many AVS forum members desire, so it's roulette at this point whether you get a perfect one or not.

Buying from a forum dealer is a great deal except you have a SIGNIFICANT non-zero percent chance you're going to get stuck with some kind of flaw that you'll either have to live with or go round n' round for months with Pioneer over.

Due solely to this, I am going to have to get my 6020 from Amazon. Now if they would only discount it as much as their other plasmas...

I dont see any of the new generation Pioneers on the Amazon site. I see the 5010 and that is about it.

The flaws you are mentioning were also inherent on the 8g Pioneer plasmas also. These are flaws that the average consumer would not even notice. The only people that would notice them are people who come on this forum and then you look for them.

Due solely to this, I am going to have to get my 6020 from Amazon. Now if they would only discount it as much as their other plasmas...

LOL! you want perfect product, best service AND and super discounted price. :rolleyes:

No. That's what I'm doing from a Denon 3806 to a 6010. My speakers aren't as good as yours, but the hookup is fine. The Denon 3806 only has two HDMI inputs so I reserve those for high definition DVD inputs. ;)

Thanks. I went to Best Buy yesterday and contracted with them to mount it. The manager wanted to know why I did not buy my TV from them. I let him know I could give him about 1500 non taxable reasons. Best Buy/Magnolia in Atlanta will not even have the 9g until September.

Best Buy was trying to hit me up for some pre-mount in-house consultation. I told them the pre-mount consultation was not necessary, cos everything was set. Just did not want any surprises.

Thanks. I went to Best Buy yesterday and contracted with them to mount it. The manager wanted to know why I did not buy my TV from them. I let him know I could give him about 1500 non taxable reasons. Best Buy/Magnolia in Atlanta will not even have the 9g until September.

Best Buy was trying to hit me up for some pre-mount in-house consultation. I told them the pre-mount consultation was not necessary, cos everything was set. Just did not want any surprises.

Dont really understand why you would contract BB to mount your TV anymore then it makes sense to have them calibrate it.

Best Buy was trying to hit me up for some pre-mount in-house consultation. Sell! Sell! Sell! ;)

The flaws you are mentioning were also inherent on the 8g Pioneer plasmas also. These are flaws that the average consumer would not even notice. The only people that would notice them are people who come on this forum and then you look for them.

+1. I know someone who sells pioneers (non-elites) at a local B&M and I asked him how often they are returned. He told me practically never, and they get the best customer feedback of any tv they sell on the pioneers. Other brands, he said, are not so lucky.

That's really way too strong of a statement.

In the past 3 weeks of reading the 9g threads, I've seen reported around a half-dozen separate types of flaws in the 9g that people have run across so far that are not things any forum dealer will allow you to return the panel for.

If you were to calculate on a percentage basis the reports of 9g panels I've read about on here that were totally flawless it is probably only 70%. That's my guess but I'm not going to go tabulate it. Pioneer's quality control on these panels is clearly nowhere near the levels many AVS forum members desire, so it's roulette at this point whether you get a perfect one or not.

Buying from a forum dealer is a great deal except you have a SIGNIFICANT non-zero percent chance you're going to get stuck with some kind of flaw that you'll either have to live with or go round n' round for months with Pioneer over.

Due solely to this, I am going to have to get my 6020 from Amazon. Now if they would only discount it as much as their other plasmas...

Last year I thought exactly the way you are thinking. I was worried to death that if I bought from a forum sponsor that I would get a set with dead pixels and I would have to worry about fighting with pioneer for monts trying to get them to consider it a defect.
Also, I was worried that the customer service of a forum sponsor would be nowhere near the customer support level I would get with Amazon.
So I ordered my 6010 from amazon.
Turned out to be a horrible mistake!!
The first TV showed up 4 days late and only one driver showed up for thier "whiteglove" delivery. The box was damaged badly and when we tried to power the TV up it was DOA.
So I had to reject delivery and wait another week before amazon shipped me another.
When the replacement came it was also DOA and the box was damaged. And by the way, only one delivery guy showed up again.
Amazon had no more in stock so I ended up getting a refund.
I went thru over a month of a customer service nightmare and all ended up with was my money back.

I put my review on the Amazon website. It goes further into detail about my horry story with Big River!

If you go to the 2nd page of reviews for the PDP-6010Fd at amazon, It is the one on the page with the title "Great TV but I wish I wouldn't have bought from Amazon". by C.Mcelyea "Chad"
I would put in a link but my PS3 won't let me copy and paste.

This time around I bought from a forum sponsor (Robert@****************) and am very happy that I did.
When I recieved it the box was in perfect shape and after looking for dead/stuck pixels I found that the Panel is absolutly Pixel Perfect!
And you can't beat buying from someone who you can ask questions and truly wants to help you and considers you a person and not an order number like amazon.
Customer service is not a high priority at amazon. This is why they out-source thier CS to countries like India. It saves them money and that's what matters to them.

Best Buy/Magnolia in Atlanta will not even have the 9g until September.

Odd, I was at the Magnolia in Bellevue, WA, on Thursday night and they had the 6020 on display (it looked GREAT) and they said they had the Elites in the warehouse and they'd be in the store the next day. It's a dedicated Magnolia though.

Last year I thought exactly the way you are thinking. I was worried to death that if I bought from a forum sponsor that I would get a set with dead pixels and I would have to worry about fighting with pioneer for monts trying to get them to consider it a defect.
Also, I was worried that the customer service of a forum sponsor would be nowhere near the customer support level I would get with Amazon.
So I ordered my 6010 from amazon.
Turned out to be a horrible mistake!!
The first TV showed up 4 days late and only one driver showed up for thier "whiteglove" delivery. The box was damaged badly and when we tried to power the TV up it was DOA.
So I had to reject delivery and wait another week before amazon shipped me another.
When the replacement came it was also DOA and the box was damaged. And by the way, only one delivery guy showed up again.
Amazon had no more in stock so I ended up getting a refund.
I went thru over a month of a customer service nightmare and all ended up with was my money back.

I put my review on the Amazon website. It goes further into detail about my horry story with Big River!

If you go to the 2nd page of reviews for the PDP-6010Fd at amazon, It is the one on the page with the title "Great TV but I wish I wouldn't have bought from Amazon". by C.Mcelyea "Chad"
I would put in a link but my PS3 won't let me copy and paste.

This time around I bought from a forum sponsor (Robert@****************) and am very happy that I did.
When I recieved it the box was in perfect shape and after looking for dead/stuck pixels I found that the Panel is absolutly Pixel Perfect!
And you can't beat buying from someone who you can ask questions and truly wants to help you and considers you a person and not an order number like amazon.
Customer service is not a high priority at amazon. This is why they out-source thier CS to countries like India. It saves them money and that's what matters to them.


I think I would buy from Robert at Value Electronics if I decide to buy again. I have read his postings and he seems very dedicated and genuine person that really cares about his customers. Not really sure how his prices compare to everyone else but Im guessing that they are reasonable.

What makes you say that this is too strong a statement? Have you purchased anything from any forum sponsors? Also, you say a half-dozen or so "flaws" ,which most people would never notice, is a very low number compared to the number of PDP's sold to forum members. ;) That's really way too strong of a statement.

In the past 3 weeks of reading the 9g threads, I've seen reported around a half-dozen separate types of flaws in the 9g that people have run across so far that are not things any forum dealer will allow you to return the panel for.

If you were to calculate on a percentage basis the reports of 9g panels I've read about on here that were totally flawless it is probably only 70%. That's my guess but I'm not going to go tabulate it. Pioneer's quality control on these panels is clearly nowhere near the levels many AVS forum members desire, so it's roulette at this point whether you get a perfect one or not.

Buying from a forum dealer is a great deal except you have a SIGNIFICANT non-zero percent chance you're going to get stuck with some kind of flaw that you'll either have to live with or go round n' round for months with Pioneer over.

Due solely to this, I am going to have to get my 6020 from Amazon. Now if they would only discount it as much as their other plasmas...

Odd, I was at the Magnolia in Bellevue, WA, on Thursday night and they had the 6020 on display (it looked GREAT) and they said they had the Elites in the warehouse and they'd be in the store the next day. It's a dedicated Magnolia though.Magnolia Home Theater is a department in some BB stores, and is under the control of the BB store manager. You were in the "original" Magnolia Audio-Video store which was a small family chain of high-end stores before BB bought them. I bought our first HDTV from Magnolia Audio-Video in 2004. With new technology (DLP), I wanted the best customer support that I could get. Our son has that set now, and it will be under it's Magnolia warranty until November.

The Magnolia Audio-Video chain has separate management, and it's own purchasing department. At least when I was dealing with them, they went out of their way to provide good costumer service. The price difference was so great, when I bought our Kuro 6010, that I bought from a forum sponser (Roman). That worked out well too.

According to a salesperson at a local AV store, the Signature series is supposed to have slightly better blacks than the Elites. Is there any truth to that? D-Nice? Robert?

no truth, it will have the same panel/glass, processor etc the blacks should be the same. the biggest difference should be the added software settings that will allow even better isf calibrations.

I am planning on setting up everything this way as well. However, if you use the SR+ feature between an Elite AVR and a Kuro, it will provide even better functionality:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll128/FilmMIxer/SC09SR.jpg



This is another reason why I like HDMI. I feel like if both my AVR and TV are the same brand and there are no handshake issues, then HDMI is a better way to go. Not only does it reduce the amount of cables, but it is also the only way to pass any of the new HD audio codecs. Even Digital optical audio cables (Toslink) cannot pass HD audio codecs, from what I have read.
The way I read the manual for the SC-07 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/SC-07_OperatingInstructions0523.pdf) if you wish to use the SR+ control cable, you have to also run component cables and turn HDMI control off if you want to take advantage of most of the OSD features. See pages 70-71 of the pdf.

But to tell you the truth, I'm still confused as to which way would be best to hook it all up.

According to a salesperson at a local AV store, the Signature series is supposed to have slightly better blacks than the Elites. Is there any truth to that? D-Nice? Robert?The first rule of life: Never believe a salesperson unless you varify it for yourself.

In this case it's obvious. No one knows how the Signature series will perform until they are produced, and sold to the public. Most people will assume that they are extremely similar to the Elite sets until they are available for viewing.

I dont see any of the new generation Pioneers on the Amazon site. I see the 5010 and that is about it.

Search for PDP-6020FD. It's been there for close to a week now sold by Amazon itself. It was on there sold by other companies before that.

The 5020 is there too.

Sell! Sell! Sell! ;)

Sometimes, I feel so bad for these high school kids working at Magnolia/Best Buy.

Search for PDP-6020FD. It's been there for close to a week now sold by Amazon itself. It was on there sold by other companies before that.

The 5020 is there too.

Wow the 5020 is less than the 5010.

LTC, you can order one for $6.50 here. http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm
I had an extra one, but was accidently put out with the trash today.

Thanks. I bought it.

Now for a few dumb questions that I know have been answered already somewhere in this lengthy thread.

How many hours do I run the break-in dvd--is it 150 hours??
Are there specific settings that need to be inputted to run the break in dvd?
Lastly, regarding the different modes available---Movie, Optimum, Game, etc. I understand that D-Nice prefers Movie---are there different reference settings for each specific mode, or do I input D-Nice's settings for every mode?

Thanks.

Thanks. I bought it.

Now for a few dumb questions that I know have been answered already somewhere in this lengthy thread.

How many hours do I run the break-in dvd--is it 150 hours??
Are there specific settings that need to be inputted to run the break in dvd?
Lastly, regarding the different modes available---Movie, Optimum, Game, etc. I understand that D-Nice prefers Movie---are there different reference settings for each specific mode, or do I input D-Nice's settings for every mode?

Thanks.

Yes, 150 hrs.

Break in settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858851)

I am guessing that DNice will offer different reference settings for several/all modes.

I think I would buy from Robert at Value Electronics if I decide to buy again. I have read his postings and he seems very dedicated and genuine person that really cares about his customers. Not really sure how his prices compare to everyone else but Im guessing that they are reasonable.

I have spoken with Robert on the phone, and this technology is his passion, which clearly shows in his written and spoken conversation. And his prices are right there with the other forum sponsors.

That's really way too strong of a statement.

In the past 3 weeks of reading the 9g threads, I've seen reported around a half-dozen separate types of flaws in the 9g that people have run across so far that are not things any forum dealer will allow you to return the panel for.

If you were to calculate on a percentage basis the reports of 9g panels I've read about on here that were totally flawless it is probably only 70%. That's my guess but I'm not going to go tabulate it. Pioneer's quality control on these panels is clearly nowhere near the levels many AVS forum members desire, so it's roulette at this point whether you get a perfect one or not.

Buying from a forum dealer is a great deal except you have a SIGNIFICANT non-zero percent chance you're going to get stuck with some kind of flaw that you'll either have to live with or go round n' round for months with Pioneer over.

Due solely to this, I am going to have to get my 6020 from Amazon. Now if they would only discount it as much as their other plasmas...

So, from a forum you estimate that 70% have no problems... And that you'll have a "SIGNIFICANT non-zero percent chance" of a flaw.

Significant? As Inigo Montoya said, I do not think it means what you think it means. This is a textbook example of sample bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_bias) or selection bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias).

I wouldn't worry too much about the new Pioneers.

Sorry guys, I had a harddrive failure last night and have to get a new hardrive today. Hopefully I'll be able to post the review late tonight as I store all of my data on a secondary drive in my desktop PC :)

Sorry for the disappointment :(

I have chewed off all my finger nails :eek:

Are there any forum sponsors in located in the Indiana/Chicago area? I'm looking to pick up a 5020. And I literally mean pick up, I'd prefer to avoid shipping it if possible.

The first rule of life: Never believe a salesperson unless you varify it for yourself.

Everybody knows that.


In this case it's obvious. No one knows how the Signature series will perform until they are produced, and sold to the public. Most people will assume that they are extremely similar to the Elite sets until they are available for viewing.
The spec must be set. Therefore someone must know if there are differences in terms of hardware components and/or software. I was hoping that someone with insider information could shed some light. That's all there is.

So, from a forum you estimate that 70% have no problems... And that you'll have a "SIGNIFICANT non-zero percent chance" of a flaw.

Significant? As Inigo Montoya said, I do not think it means what you think it means. This is a textbook example of sample bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_bias) or selection bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias).

I wouldn't worry too much about the new Pioneers.

"Textbook" selection bias would apply if we were looking at reports of random 9g new owners who were posting to these 9g threads for the first time. Likely many of them would be random folks who found a problem with their set and came here looking for answers. And meanwhile you'd never hear a peep from folks with trouble-free units. I am of course well aware of this kind of bias in forums.

In this case I think we can easily avoid that and get a non-biased sample. Only count the reports from folks who posted to these threads prior to receiving their 9g: folks stating their expected delivery date, or stating they had just purchased a 9g and were waiting on delivery. By now most of those deliveries have been made, so we can count up the number of reports of "zero issues" and the number of reports of one or more issues. And if a particular person never posted a delivery report, count that as a "zero issues" report.

That should represent a true random sample, not one self-selected after the fact. If anything it would be biased too positively by giving a "zero issues" bump for the people who never reported back on their delivery experience.

That should represent a true random sample, not one self-selected after the fact. The entire population at AVS is self selected, with a pronounce ability to find fault. ;)

Among the AVS population there are large numbers who never post about fault free equipment, but who do report when trouble happens. There are also vast numbers of people here at AVS who would never think to post that they ordered a piece of equipment.

The best use that I've been able to make of AVS trouble reports is that they make a list of things to watch out for easy to compile. Unfortunately they also contribute to the "sky is falling" syndrome which comes back with each and every new model release, regardless of the manufacturer or the technology.

well truth is if you buy a panel from robert or any forum sponser and you get a dead pixel or 2 or 3 or any flaw on the set.. they should swap it out.. when u buy a item it should be 0 percent defected... so my question is if i buy from robert and i have a dead pixl or any other flaw is would he swap it out for me..

Eddy

That's a question that you should be asking the etailer directly.

well truth is if you buy a panel from robert or any forum sponser and you get a dead pixel or 2 or 3 or any flaw on the set.. they should swap it out.. when u buy a item it should be 0 percent defected... so my question is if i buy from robert and i have a dead pixl or any other flaw is would he swap it out for me..You need to ask the merchant you are buying from what they will do in the situations that worry you. With AVS sponsors you should get straight answers.

If you want a 100%, no questions asked, no expense to you, return policy for 60 days, then shop at CostPlus. You can get a thirty day return policy from some chains or local dealers like BB.

You may have noticed that the forum sponsors charge a lot less than those folks. That leads me to believe that most of the returns that they accept are due to DOA and shipping damage. I had twentyfour hours to examine our 6010 for problems that were serious enough to warrant an exchange by a forum sponsor. For the discount that I got, that seemed like a reasonable policy for them, and a reasonable risk for me. Win-win. :)

well truth is if you buy a panel from robert or any forum sponser and you get a dead pixel or 2 or 3 or any flaw on the set.. they should swap it out.. when u buy a item it should be 0 percent defected... so my question is if i buy from robert and i have a dead pixl or any other flaw is would he swap it out for me..

That would be a question to ask Robert.
But I will tell you this, I have the worse luck of anyone I know and My set was Pixel Perfect and I bought from Robert.
Another thing is, Don't go hunting for dead pixels. I did that and I really shouldn't have. If you can't see it during normal viewing then does it really matter? If you are one of the unfortunate people to find one dead/stck pixel, I can promise you that you will wish you would have never found it. On a 1080p set (especially 50 inch and lower), One dead/stuck pixel is almost impossible to see at regular viewing distance.

Hi found this on another forum so i thought i would post it and thanks to -ad_ for the post

Kuro 5090 9G Demo Today

Spent nearly 5 hours down at TLC today, and here is the site that greeted me as I walked in [4mp = :/]

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1752/11245978/19928993/322287894.jpg

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1752/11245978/19928993/322287890.jpg

Back wall is the new 60 9G, then from the back right, 50 PF10, 5090 9G, LX 508, and 508XD [4280XD out of picture.]

Initially steve put on Casino-royale Blu-ray, and immediately the 5090 showed a massive leap in black levels over the 8G, I was truly astounded that the difference was so profound We watched a bit longer, and it became more apparent that the dynamic range was also far great than the LX 8G sitting next to it, then a shot with Bond recovering in hospital showed that the 9G can produce a lovely bright white, much more so than the old 8G sets, and even a bit brighter than the PF10 next to it. So:


Black levels
To be frankly honest, the PF10 was noticeably the worst here for black levels, massively compared to the 5090, and even fell behind all 8G sets, including the 4280XD [not in picture], but this was not really surprising. But the amazing thing was the detail in the dark blacks on peoples clothing, and in darker areas of the picture on the new 5090. I really can't put it into words properly, but Pioneer have reached the pinnacle of black levels here, and even in a pitch black room it was nearly impossible to differentiate the black bars on the screen from the bezel around the set.

Overall Picture Quality [On blu-ray]
Again, I find it hard to express the picture quality in words, but I'l give it a bash .

What I saw initially just looked like a black version of the 8G LX, but after seeing some different scenes in casino royale I realised this was a general leap up the scale in all areas. Like I said in the introduction, white levels were brighter than the 8G sets when they needed to be, but never overpowering, and the sheer 3D depth of the picture was breathtaking, especially on the beginning scene in 'Hellboy' Blu-ray, with the dark gritty colours and hard rain. Even steve stopped mid-sentence and just pointed at the sceen in sheer disbelief.

Starship Troopers Blu-ray went in, and straight away I put it on the reference scene of my reference demo disc [staging area with young troops before they go to get the brainbug]. Now this scene really sold me the set, the detail of the desert scape, people, and even being able to tell that Casper van diens scar was actually make up, then the ships in orbit being annihilated, was just ****** SENSATIONAL, jaw dropping stuff.

Not the most comprehensive review of the PQ, but Blu-rays show that this set makes everything else in the market bow down and kiss its feet. Breathtaking stuff from the Pio engineers.

Sky HD + SD
HD cricket and BBC HD really were the stars of the show, perfect picture, with bags of detail and depth. Even the worst SD channels looked as good as what the old 8G sets produced, and trounced the panasonic which really couldn't keep up at all with its inferior processing.

Motion Handling
Matches the 8G sets, so very smooth throughout fast panning shots in both HD films, HD sky, and even SD channels. Not much else to say here other than

PWM Noise
Massive reduction compared to the 8G sets, but you might be able to see a bit if you look hard enough. But the biggest surprise was the Panasonic PF10 that had spades of noisy pixels dancing around like Morris Dancers in the darker scenes. truly horrific, but then again this wasn't really noticable in dark scenes.


Conclusions
A brief insight into the new 9G sets, but most importantly the blacks, reduced PWM noise, and massive dynamics really take tv watching to a new level. the professional PF10 is left trailing behind even the 8G kuros which still put up a very respectable showing, especially the bargain price 508XD.

These sets have better build that the 8G XD sets, but not quite as good as the LX model from the previous gen, but hey...... more monies for the electronics.

Gotta shoot off now being shouted at But the new 9G sets are truly astonishing, so get yourself a demo down at TLC Broadcast if you can, Tony has done a great job with the place, and good ol Steve has got bumtious to bring out the best in all the sets on display. Great service from 2 enthusiasts who want you to get the best set for your eyes and budget, and good cups of tea too......... Many thanks

Don't really need to say what I have ordered