Now you're freaking me out. I happen to be getting a terrific panel from a GREAT forum sponsor - but my panel has four HDMI inputs and only one component input.

I will have the same issue should I get a 9G Pioneer. I have no HDMI-capable equipment and can't afford to replace anything right now. My current setup (with an XBR tube) allows me to connect both a combi-player (remember those?) and a universal player to my TV, and either can play through both the stereo AND the TV so I can watch "on the fly." Both components have multiple outputs and the XBR has multiple inputs, so it's great. But with only one component and one S-video, any 9G will be problematic regarding connectivity. And PQ aside, this lack of analog connectivity is a drawback in my situation.

This isn't the first time I've heard that component is better than HDMI. A vendor (in Nashville) I spoke to said the same thing. In fact, that vendor connected his Runcos via component.

There's the possibility of getting a video switcher with more connections, however. These aren't too expensive, maybe less than $100.

are a lot of poeple here waiting for the sig. series?

Are there any forum sponsors in located in the Indiana/Chicago area? I'm looking to pick up a 5020. And I literally mean pick up, I'd prefer to avoid shipping it if possible.

Cleveland Plasma (Ohio), Plasma Concepts (Ohio), and MountAVision (Romeo, IL) may all be within driving distance of you.

are a lot of poeple here waiting for the sig. series?

I think a lot of people are waiting to see what D-Nice (otherwise known as the obe wan kanobe of Pioneer plasmas) has to say about the non-elite set.

Tweakability in the signature series is good if you actually need it. Not much point is spending 50% premium if you don't.

are a lot of poeple here waiting for the sig. series?

With no need for a tuner or speakers, I'm sitting tight awaiting reviews and pricing of the Sig series. The thought of a thinner set and a smaller bezel is appealing if I can get it for Elite pricing.

Still using a 15 year old Mitsubishi RPTV. Sooo, no hurry here.:)

Been reading these 9G threads for a month now and I must admit it has been quite an education. I'll go back to sleep now. ;)

are a lot of poeple here waiting for the sig. series?

I am.

John

post of the week Meridius, cheers

are a lot of poeple here waiting for the sig. series?

I'm not in line for an Elite (outside the 250 mi) but I would miss the speakers. Right now, my sound system is not working, I would be out of luck w/o my TV's speakers. I do see the advantages of the Sig despite my situation.

Bill

Does anyone else notice an unusual amount of blank space between the actual lit up screen and the bezel? That small part between the screen and the bezel that stays blank seems to be larger than my old 6010 on the new 6020 and also there is more on the right side than the left. Does anyone else notice this?

theres a space between the bezel and the screen? ive never heard of this before, is this with all plasma tv's or just pioneer tv's?

my lcd monitor uses the entire screen and i would feel cheated if it didn't. I thought the whole point of a bezel was to cover up anything none screen related, and to outline the actually viewing area :(

If I didn't use the break in DVD the first 200 hours on the 6020, will it help to start using it right around the 200 hour mark or is it too late to matter?

I agree makaveli, however I think that is with all plazmas. When I irst saw it I was turned off too, but learned to live with it. Now however, it seems to have gotten worse on the 6020 and lopsided as well. It almost looks like the bezel was put on crooked.

OK, seems like I've been reading this forum for years, and am finally close to pulling the trigger on a Kuro (probably the 6020 -- was going with the 6010 until the recent release). My question -- the set will go in a room that has lots of ambient light, particularly from windows across the room it will be facing. Is a Kuro the right set for these conditions? Or is it better designed for a home theater environment, and I should not be spending the extra thousands to plop it in my family room? Thoughts?

get some curtains and the 9g kuro-you wont look back

Simply because component video's un-encoded and un-compressed analog output is at least as good as any digitized video and the HDCP ruins the HDMI experience by forcing the HDCP hand shaking that is unreliable and slows the response time for most commands.

Other than BD and HD DVD HDMI should not be used.

-Robert

Hello Robert,

How does the component feed rom a cable box compare with the coax cable? What major improvement is there, in your view?

the set will go in a room that has lots of ambient light, particularly from windows across the room it will be facing. Is a Kuro the right set for these conditions? Or is it better designed for a home theater environment, and I should not be spending the extra thousands to plop it in my family room? Thoughts?

The Kuro will only look its best in a darkened room.

Due to the nature of the technology, in a room with the lights on, the blacks will actually look dark grey. This is because there is a filter between the pixels and the glass screen that reflects ambient light as grey. Without ambient light, you can't see the filter, so when a pixel isn't lit up, you don't see anything there, hence the dark black reputation of the Kuros.

So if you're going to be enjoying movies during the daylight and you can't darken the room, then I would recommend an LCD TV.

I don't mind this limitation myself. During the day we mostly have inconsequential television running and we watch movies in the evening when we can draw the shades and darken the room.

The Kuro will only look its best in a darkened room.

Due to the nature of the technology, in a room with the lights on, the blacks will actually look dark grey. This is because there is a filter between the pixels and the glass screen that reflects ambient light as grey. Without ambient light, you can't see the filter, so when a pixel isn't lit up, you don't see anything there, hence the dark black reputation of the Kuros.

So if you're going to be enjoying movies during the daylight and you can't darken the room, then I would recommend an LCD TV.

I don't mind this limitation myself. During the day we mostly have inconsequential television running and we watch movies in the evening when we can draw the shades and darken the room.

I have to disagree with this. While its true that a proper home theater set-up blocks most if not all ambient light, the blacks on the kuros in moderate ambient light are still very good, especially with bright content on the screen which causes your eyes to percieve black areas as deeper. I was watching blood diamond on blu-ray yesterday on my 5080 with quite a bit of ambient light coming in off a window, and the black bars still looked very very black and the contrast was still great, just not quite as good as with the lights off.

For someone interested in getting a Kuro, there is no reason to even think LCD as they came looking for a kuro for a reason. All the major drawbacks of flat-panels that they clearly know about will be apparent for years on anything but a Pioneer.

Even if you can't control ambient light during the day, you still have darkness every night where you can enjoy movies properly, and the daytime viewing will still look great with the right settings.

The Kuro will only look its best in a darkened room.

Due to the nature of the technology, in a room with the lights on, the blacks will actually look dark grey. This is because there is a filter between the pixels and the glass screen that reflects ambient light as grey. Without ambient light, you can't see the filter, so when a pixel isn't lit up, you don't see anything there, hence the dark black reputation of the Kuros.

So if you're going to be enjoying movies during the daylight and you can't darken the room, then I would recommend an LCD TV.



Please don't come on this forum with 8 posts and start spreading this kind of BS. You sound like you just gone done taking the Best Buy TV sales training course. :rolleyes:

Yes, it is only bad calibrated flatscreens that impresses with their torch-mode.

There is no need for brighter television. People tend to think so though.

The industri knows it, hence the "dynamic"-mode on almost all television we see in the stores.

The Kuro will only look its best in a darkened room.

Due to the nature of the technology, in a room with the lights on, the blacks will actually look dark grey. This is because there is a filter between the pixels and the glass screen that reflects ambient light as grey. Without ambient light, you can't see the filter, so when a pixel isn't lit up, you don't see anything there, hence the dark black reputation of the Kuros.

So if you're going to be enjoying movies during the daylight and you can't darken the room, then I would recommend an LCD TV.

I don't mind this limitation myself. During the day we mostly have inconsequential television running and we watch movies in the evening when we can draw the shades and darken the room.


I saw the 60" Elite at BB/Mag yesterday. It was facing out into the showroom and even with the demo BR, The blacks were *far* from black even in pure, movie mode. That'sa big deal for me cuz we rarely watch in a dark room. Would an 8G look better in a lit room?


bob

Please don't come on this forum with 8 posts and start spreading this kind of BS. You sound like you just gone done taking the Best Buy TV sales training course. :rolleyes:

I post about what I *see*. If the shades aren't drawn, blacks are *grey*, period. "Black" bars do NOT blend in with the bezel because, with ambient light, they aren't black, they're *grey*.

In a properly lighted room, you can't beat the blacks of a Kuro, but I'm sorry, if the room is lit up, you're going to be seeing the grey filter when the pixels aren't lit. If you see it as black, it's only because your eyes (just like a camera) can't handle the wide contrast with the close, brighter pixels.

are a lot of poeple here waiting for the sig. series?
I definitely am.

just been looking at the book and i can not beleave the VGA port can not do 1080p whats the point in that if ou have such a high spec tv why would pioneer put a VGA port on this tv and not be able to use 1080p

it only goes up to 1280x1024 why? why would pioneer do that so this port to me is useless who would use it you can not even conect a pc to it and get 1080p or even a games machine its pointless

I post about what I *see*. If the shades aren't drawn, blacks are *grey*, period. "Black" bars do NOT blend in with the bezel because, with ambient light, they aren't black, they're *grey*.

In a properly lighted room, you can't beat the blacks of a Kuro, but I'm sorry, if the room is lit up, you're going to be seeing the grey filter when the pixels aren't lit. If you see it as black, it's only because your eyes (just like a camera) can't handle the wide contrast with the close, brighter pixels.

Read my post above. I was really disappointed in the blacks in a lit situation.

Again, I ask: would an 8G show better blacks in a normally it room?


bob

it only goes up to 1280x1024 why? why would pioneer do that so this port to me is useless who would use it you can not even conect a pc to it and get 1080p or even a games machine its pointlessUse HDMI or a DVI to HDMI cable. Depending on your computer, and your needs, the results are very good.

Are there any forum sponsors in located in the Indiana/Chicago area? I'm looking to pick up a 5020. And I literally mean pick up, I'd prefer to avoid shipping it if possible.

I got mine from Tweeter in Orland Park and got normal delivery to my brothers house in Indiana (small shipping but no sales tax). Carted back to Indy myself. Good price and excellent service.

This guy said he has 3 big windows facing his set - looks pretty good to me.


http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/brucefannj/IMG_1369.jpg

Read my post above. I was really disappointed in the blacks in a lit situation.

Again, I ask: would an 8G show better blacks in a normally it room?


bob

With all due respect to the fan boys, in a normally lit room, a high quality LCD is going to look better than any Kuro. It's in a darkened room that an LCD suffers from its technology. You can see the glow from the backlight leaking through the LCD in the dark areas. In daylight, you can't see the glow, so blacks look very black.

You pay the extra money on Kuros for phenomenal detail and contrast in dimly lit movie scenes. But you can only see that detail if the room is darkened because the low light levels of the pixels won't be able to exceed the light level of the ambient light reflecting off the grey filter.

In contrast, on an LCD, there is no grey filter for the ambient light to reflect off of. So for a LOT less money, the picture looks as good or better than a Kuro in daylight, (again with a higher quality LCD).

I own both the Sharp Aquos LC-46SE94U and the PDP-6020FP.

You don't have to take my word on it. Just go to the store and turn the plasma display off. You'll see how black it can possibly get in daylight.

If you're only going to be watching the set in a "normally lit" room, then it's a waste of money to pay the premium for a Kuro. IMHO

I post about what I *see*. If the shades aren't drawn, blacks are *grey*, period. "Black" bars do NOT blend in with the bezel because, with ambient light, they aren't black, they're *grey*.

In a properly lighted room, you can't beat the blacks of a Kuro, but I'm sorry, if the room is lit up, you're going to be seeing the grey filter when the pixels aren't lit. If you see it as black, it's only because your eyes (just like a camera) can't handle the wide contrast with the close, brighter pixels.

Are you "seeing" this on a 9G kuro you have in your home, or is this something you are "seeing" in a retail showroom? What have you seen that offers better blacks than a Kuro?

With all due respect to the fan boys, in a normally lit room, a high quality LCD is going to look better than any Kuro. It's in a darkened room that an LCD suffers from its technology. You can see the glow from the backlight leaking through the LCD in the dark areas. In daylight, you can't see the glow, so blacks look very black.

In my experience LCDs can look blacker in daylight, but at the expense of shadow detail. I can see better shadow detail on plasmas even in bright lighting. I find the loss of shadow detail more annoying than slightly less-black blacks.

Are you "seeing" this on a 9G kuro you have in your home, or is this something you are "seeing" in a retail showroom? What have you seen that offers better blacks than a Kuro?

As I said, I have a 6020 and a 46" LCD.

Home or showroom, it doesn't matter. In daylight, a Kuro cannot deliver blacks that are blacker than the *GREY* filter.

With all due respect to the fan boys, in a normally lit room, a high quality LCD is going to look better than any Kuro.



Maybe for the two people lucky enough to get the couch in the center. Anyone else in the room gets a compromised picture. I'd take the Kuro off-center over the LCD in a normal daylight situation anyday.

If you're only going to be watching the set in a "normally lit" room, then it's a waste of money to pay the premium for a Kuro. IMHO

What is a waste of money is not getting a set of blinds to control your viewing conditions so you can appreciate that TV you spent all your money on - LCD or plasma.

What is a waste of money is not getting a set of blinds to control your viewing conditions so you can appreciate that TV you spent all your money on - LCD or plasma.

Believe it or not, there are people who insist on having the lights on while watching movies. :eek:

Can you imagine trying to watch Alien or Descent with all the lights on?!

Believe it or not, there are people who insist on having the lights on while watching movies. :eek:

Can you imagine trying to watch Alien or Descent with all the lights on?!

Maybe an ISF calibrated set *with* prope backlighting. Otherwise Eyestrain:eek:


bob

this whole discussion is pointless at the size the kuros are made in. Why would anyone ever buy a 50 or 60 inch display and then watch it with bright lights shinging in?

Plus even in a showroom, with bright flourescent lights that would never emulate even a living room in the day let alone a home theater environment, the Kuros still look amazing.

So, it comes down to this. If you are going to buy your set for at least SOME night time viewing, get a kuro. You should get the highest common denominator for the ideal viewing environment (night time). If you are actually going to watch a 50-60 inch television 100 percent in bright light, skip the high end of any tech and buy yourself a 700 dollar LCD. In this case the person clearly has no desire to have good PQ.

jet757f;14132862
The flaws you are mentioning were also inherent on the 8g Pioneer plasmas also. These are flaws that the average consumer would not even notice. The only people that would notice them are people who come on this forum and then you look for them.

Excuse me, but if I pay that kind of money for the "best" panel I damn well expect it to be perfect out of the box: no stuck or dead pixels, no streaks (this one's for you, Nambit!!) or any other crap that you may accept it as normal just because Pioneer says so. And don't be so confident that the "average consumer" won't notice stuff, we notice more than people like you frequent forum users think... Also, when I take delivery of the new 151 I'll make sure it can go back if it only has half a dead pixel:p

"That should represent a true random sample, not one self-selected after the fact. If anything it would be biased too positively by giving a "zero issues" bump for the people who never reported back on their delivery experience.

No matter how you spin it, there's no way anyone can get reliable data re. plasma flaws by reading these posts. In fact, given the nature of this forum, I'm betting we see a disproportionate number of "flaw" reports than we do of "no-flaw" reports. Either way, it's mere speculation.

Tweakability in the signature series is good if you actually need it. Not much point is spending 50% premium if you don't.

I'm always amused how people can determine such things even though they ... or anyone else ... have not actually seen the plasma itself. Ditto re. the supposed price.

Excuse me, but if I pay that kind of money for the "best" panel I damn well expect it to be perfect out of the box: no stuck or dead pixels, no streaks (this one's for you, Nambit!!) or any other crap that you may accept it as normal just because Pioneer says so. And don't be so confident that the "average consumer" won't notice stuff, we notice more than people like you frequent forum users think... Also, when I take delivery of the new 151 I'll make sure it can go back if it only has half a dead pixel:p

The pixel rule is not restricted to Pioneer. Most, if not all, warranties have some sort of minimum allowable pixel problems for replacement. As long as you buy from a "xx days, no questions asked return policy" you should be able to return a dead pixel monitor irrregardless (within that period). Chances are, you won't have any problem with dead pixels or anything else. Also, you will notice more things with the TV because you are on this thread and know what to look for. Good luck in your pursuit.

I saw the 60" Elite at BB/Mag yesterday. It was facing out into the showroom and even with the demo BR, The blacks were *far* from black even in pure, movie mode. That'sa big deal for me cuz we rarely watch in a dark room. Would an 8G look better in a lit room?


bob

Did you notice any difference from viewing from dead center compared to off angle? I thought Pioneer had implemented some kind of filter arrangement that would help with bright room viewing on the Elite line. It may be that the filter works only if light is coming in from above....something like a polarizer.

Home or showroom, it doesn't matter. In daylight, a Kuro cannot deliver blacks that are blacker than the *GREY* filter.

What's this "grey" filter you keep writing about? I've read thousands and thousands of posts on this forum about plasmas over the past three years and I've never seen one post that mentions a "grey" or "gray" filter .... except from you. No offense intended here but, personally, I think you don't know what you're talking about.

I saw the 60" Elite at BB/Mag yesterday. It was facing out into the showroom and even with the demo BR, The blacks were *far* from black even in pure, movie mode. That'sa big deal for me cuz we rarely watch in a dark room. Would an 8G look better in a lit room?

Look, I had a Pro-150FD before I sold my condo. It was in a bright room with
blinds that were often left open. My blacks were pretty black during the day
even at the brightest of times. The only time the blacks were grey were when
there was either direct or reflected sunlight on the panel.

LCDs don't fair too well with direct sunlight either. I'll post a few pics of my
Sharp LCD that I had a hard time taking pics of when I wanted to sell it. I
eventually realized I had to face it away from the window to get a good shot.
By the way, in the 2nd shot, I had the blinds mostly closed. A lot of the light
came from another room off to the side... and it still didn't do well.

The Kuro will only look its best in a darkened room.

Due to the nature of the technology, in a room with the lights on, the blacks will actually look dark grey. This is because there is a filter between the pixels and the glass screen that reflects ambient light as grey. Without ambient light, you can't see the filter, so when a pixel isn't lit up, you don't see anything there, hence the dark black reputation of the Kuros.

So if you're going to be enjoying movies during the daylight and you can't darken the room, then I would recommend an LCD TV.

I don't mind this limitation myself. During the day we mostly have inconsequential television running and we watch movies in the evening when we can draw the shades and darken the room.

This is not my experience with my Pio 8G. It's plenty bright and dark during the day and with lights on.

What's this "grey" filter you keep writing about? I've read thousands and thousands of posts on this forum about plasmas over the past three years and I've never seen one post that mentions a "grey" or "gray" filter .... except from you. No offense intended here but, personally, I think you don't know what you're talking about.

Fine. Forget I posted anything. Perhaps the screen of a Kuro isn't supposed to be gray when the room lights are on. My TV must be defective. And so is this guy's:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14126338#post14126338

Did you notice any difference from viewing from dead center compared to off angle? I thought Pioneer had implemented some kind of filter arrangement that would help with bright room viewing on the Elite line. It may be that the filter works only if light is coming in from above....something like a polarizer.

No, but I kept saying "where are the blacks?":D


bob

ps the 50" elites in the room had great, maybe too great blacks.


bob

Excuse my camera but here's a shot of a 4280 in my current place which
faces south. I also will attach a 3rd pic for comparison to show what it's
like with the window-screen down. You be the judge. Lots of reflected
light in the shots with the screen-door open, especially from the bright
wall behind me.

(note, camera loses a lot of details... Anyone with good Canon SD850 settings?)

Fine. Forget I posted anything. Perhaps the screen of a Kuro isn't supposed to be gray when the room lights are on. My TV must be defective. And so is this guy's:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14126338#post14126338

Just because it is gray, does that mean it is a gray filter? All of the CRT TVs in our house have a screen which is gray compared to the black masking around it. For example, here is a shot of my Mitsubishi TV in a room with the blinds completely closed (nice reflections, huh?). The border masking around the viewable area is black. The viewable area is a much lighter color.

Now THAT is a reflection!!

Fine. Forget I posted anything.

OK. ;)

Fine. Forget I posted anything. Perhaps the screen of a Kuro isn't supposed to be gray when the room lights are on. My TV must be defective. And so is this guy's:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14126338#post14126338


In the post you referenced the guy was talking about a Panasonic 800 series plasma. He didn't have a Kuro. Not sure why his statements about his Panasonic would apply to Kuros. When it comes to black level, Kuro's still beat Pannys on days ending in Y.

hey guys wow like someone said it if you blink you can miss alot lol, well in my case i moved away and just got internet service today at my home. i belive i was last active in page 168 or 169.

ps : is their something wrong with the webpage? i didnt get any notifications via email and my email is setup for this webpage and the settings to notify are setup as well any clues?

Someone here mentioned that none of us say nice things about our plasma monitors, so I'd like to say something nice.

My monitor for 6 years has been the Fujitsu 5001, the first 50" monitor on the market, I believe. It cost me $12,000 in 2002, and I was initially quite worried that it wouldn't live up to the hype. I had it calibrated about 6 months after I bought it, but I found the calibration settings too dark for my taste, and I upped the brightness level after a few days.

My worries quickly abated, and then vanished. The 5001 delivered an astounding picture, for both standard cable TV sources and high-def sources which were just arriving (like HBO). There were no dead pixels, and nothing unexpected ever happened. Sometimes the fans sounded a little loud, but if I vacuumed out dust from the air vents in the back, the fans got quieter.

I used a Boston Acoustics 7000 Home Theater, and a Panasonic RP82 DVD player. Everything looked great, particularly widescreen movies, and I ended up buying 2,500 DVDs. In 2007, I bought a Toshiba HD DVD player which also upscaled my DVDs.

That Fujitsu is going strong today, at my cousin's apartment. It has lost a little brightness, but there is no evidence of "burn" of any kind. I expect it will work fine for another 10 years.

My new plasma, ordered from Robert (who was recommended by Ken Ross), is the Pioneer 151FD, and apparently I'll be one of the first to receive it, perhaps in a couple of weeks. And the experience with Robert and Value Electronics, so far, has been exemplary, to say the least.

To go with my new apartment and my new 60" plasma (which is the best television in existence I believe), will be the Pioneer Elite receiver (x94?) and some high-end speakers I bought on eBay, the JM Lab/Focal Cobalt set which are simply divine-sounding, and I've also purchased from Robert the next-generation Pioneer BD player, which won't be coming until August.

I'm a happy camper (or at least, a happy viewer).

Does anybody have any experience with the 720p kuro vs 1080p kuro. There is a display model 5080 at a local best buy at a considerably discounted price. My current viewing distance is about 8 feet. Would I actually notice a large difference from 8 feet on the 1080p material? I know this is a highly debated topic.

I'm just looking for some insight. I am really really really tempted to pull the trigger. I just don't want to regret going 720p

Just for some background info, I currently have a 1080p 40" lcd.

no you won't see the difference. I have the pro-1150 and I can't see the difference from 7ft away.

Does anybody have any experience with the 720p kuro vs 1080p kuro. There is a display model 5080 at a local best buy at a considerably discounted price. My current viewing distance is about 8 feet. Would I actually notice a large difference from 8 feet on the 1080p material? I know this is a highly debated topic.

I'm just looking for some insight. I am really really really tempted to pull the trigger. I just don't want to regret going 720p

Just for some background info, I currently have a 1080p 40" lcd.


There is no broadcast 1080p material and will not likely be any time soon.
Some feel 1080i broadcasts are better with 1080p sets.
Obviously Blu ray or HD players will provide a 1080p source, but most people feel that they look fantastic and indistinguishable from a 1080p unit on a good 720p unit.
There is the SD effect thing at close range, but it varies if you can actually see it.

I had a 5080. It had great PQ. Would still have it if it did not buzz like a beehive.
If the unit is less than $2k-it is likely worth it as long a you get full warranty and it does not have any cosmetic issues.

Does anybody have any experience with the 720p kuro vs 1080p kuro. There is a display model 5080 at a local best buy at a considerably discounted price. My current viewing distance is about 8 feet. Would I actually notice a large difference from 8 feet on the 1080p material? I know this is a highly debated topic.


I went from a Pro-150FD (60 inch 1080P) to a 4280 (42 inch 720P - native 1024x768) and I sat/sit approx 7-8 feet away for each.
Now, I'm going from a 60 inch to a 42 inch, so the whole 1080P vs. 720P is complicated (especially with a 1024x768 720P). Still,
when I think about it, I'm very happy with the 4280. At 7-8 feet away, I don't sense any loss of PQ due to resolution. For you,
a 5080 should be fine. I would have picked one up myself but the 4280 I got was about 1/2 the price of the 5080. :)

Why did you make the change, Nambit?

^^ The guy who bought my condo was adamant in purchasing my 150FD too! It really made the condo shine. I bought a 4280 to tide me buy until my new house is built.

I have found that watching the same source on my plasma, and then on a smaller monitor, it always seemed sharper on the smaller monitor; sharper and a bit brighter.

But watching the large monitor is a more immersive experience, which is why it's more like watching a film in a theater.

I wish that Pioneer made a larger monitor than 60", because I'll be sitting 12 feet away from it in my new apartment. In my old apartment, I sat about 9' from the 50" monitor.

Quick question:

Is there any other major difference between the 151Fd and the 6020FD besides the ISF calibration items? Do they both accept 24fps? PQ the same? I have read the descriptions and there doesn't seem to be much difference.

Also, can anyone recommend a reputable dealer, online or otherwise? I would rather not buy from BB.

Thanks in advance!

I am also waiting to get more information on the Signature Series.

People are saying the panel will be the same (will they?), but I believe they said this for the elite and non-elite and it turns out they are different part numbers and supposedly, different panels.

The elite and non-elite have different software and ie processing. Will the elite and signature have the same software?

There is IP connectivity, but what does this really mean. You have to write custom code to take advantage of this feature or it will provide immediate user accessible features like web interface, PC connectivity, etc.

The sig has no stand, no tuner, and no speakers. If a xx20, 111, or 151 stand fit the signature series, I would like to be first in line to buy one from someone not using it here on the forum provided I decide to get a sig series after a lot of these questions are answered.

If anyone has some good inside information as to what we can expect with the sig series, please share as there seem to be many of us here interested in knowing what we are waiting for.

Hello Robert,

How does the component feed from a cable box compare with the coax cable? What major improvement is there, in your view?
To me they look the same, but many have said a direct coax cable feed directly into the cable input looks better than the cable decoder box image. Sorry I don't know which is true, but I think it somewhat depends on which cable carrier and STB they use as some decoders are slightly better than others.

-Robert

I am also waiting to get more information on the Signature Series.

People are saying the panel will be the same (will they?), but I believe they said this for the elite and non-elite and it turns out they are different part numbers and supposedly, different panels.

The elite and non-elite have different software and ie processing. Will the elite and signature have the same software?

There is IP connectivity, but what does this really mean. You have to write custom code to take advantage of this feature or it will provide immediate user accessible features like web interface, PC connectivity, etc.

The sig has no stand, no tuner, and no speakers. If a xx20, 111, or 151 stand fit the signature series, I would like to be first in line to buy one from someone not using it here on the forum provided I decide to get a sig series after a lot of these questions are answered.

If anyone has some good inside information as to what we can expect with the sig series, please share as there seem to be many of us here interested in knowing what we are waiting for.

Does the Sig have a separate control box? I thought the British salesman said that it did?

bob

I am also waiting to get more information on the Signature Series.

People are saying the panel will be the same (will they?), but I believe they said this for the elite and non-elite and it turns out they are different part numbers and supposedly, different panels.

The elite and non-elite have different software and ie processing. Will the elite and signature have the same software?

There is IP connectivity, but what does this really mean. You have to write custom code to take advantage of this feature or it will provide immediate user accessible features like web interface, PC connectivity, etc.

The sig has no stand, no tuner, and no speakers. If a xx20, 111, or 151 stand fit the signature series, I would like to be first in line to buy one from someone not using it here on the forum provided I decide to get a sig series after a lot of these questions are answered.

If anyone has some good inside information as to what we can expect with the sig series, please share as there seem to be many of us here interested in knowing what we are waiting for.

the panels are different part numbers because the bonded filter is different on the elite then the regular kuros. the internal cells, parts, other mechanicals etc are the same with the elites having some added quality controls specs and the sig series even further supposedly.

should be the same processor just with added/enabled settings to the software for the elites and even more for the sig series.

some canadian members were told a stand was included, but thats probably a mistatement by a dealer.

theres a space between the bezel and the screen? ive never heard of this before, is this with all plasma tv's or just pioneer tv's?

my lcd monitor uses the entire screen and i would feel cheated if it didn't. I thought the whole point of a bezel was to cover up anything none screen related, and to outline the actually viewing area :(

I agree makaveli, however I think that is with all plazmas. When I irst saw it I was turned off too, but learned to live with it. Now however, it seems to have gotten worse on the 6020 and lopsided as well. It almost looks like the bezel was put on crooked.

I have a 6010 (soon to be 151) and had not noticed this on my set. I recently received an Anthem AVM 50 with built in video processor; set it to output 1080p, and set the Kuro on dot-to-dot, then noticed the uneven spaces.:confused: I was viewing much more critically after the AVM install and may have missed what was there all along. However, that did not keep me from going bonkers, checking my video set-up, and even bypassing the Anthem and switching back to component from HDMI to see if that was the fix--it wasn't. Then I read the above post suggesting it is the Orbiter. I will try turning that off tomorrow. If that resolves the issue, I will turn it back on and live with it.

-Don

Dwwhitley, It has nothing to do with the orbiter. It is fixed into the bezel and is off center. You can't change or fix it if what you are seeing is what me and chadmak have. It probably is not though as I had a 6010 and did not have the crooked problem. When you get your 151, check it and let us know if you notice it as I think (note how I said think) it may only be inherent to the 9gs.

are they still saying fall for the sig series?

Perhaps Robert Can Answer The What If We Receive A Pioneer Plasma From His Company And It Has A Dead Pixel Would He Allow A Exchange

Has anyone seen the 9g 6020 in a Best Buy yet?

Fine. Forget I posted anything. Perhaps the screen of a Kuro isn't supposed to be gray when the room lights are on. My TV must be defective. And so is this guy's:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14126338#post14126338

I had a Panny 58PX600U and an SXRD in my family room which I do have a fair amount of light coming in. I do close the blinds as sunlight will degrade the picture no matter what type of TV you have.

Having said that, the SXRD's screen is a blackish brown color while the Panny was obviously gray (the Kuro's is darker than the Panny by a fair amount). What was surprising is that even though the SXRD's screen was darker, on regular content it still had deeper black levels and colors were richer on it. And if the Panny did better than the SXRD the Kuro will for sure as my 8G Kuro did MUCH better than my Panny with black levels (and it reflects less than my Panny did).

IMO Samsung did it right with tinting their LCDs with a jet black screen, however there's downsides to LCDs also so you have to weigh out the differences between LCD and plasma and determine which is a best fit for your taste.

Originally Posted by prepress
Hello Robert,

How does the component feed from a cable box compare with the coax cable? What major improvement is there, in your view?

To me they look the same, but many have said a direct coax cable feed directly into the cable input looks better than the cable decoder box image. Sorry I don't know which is true, but I think it somewhat depends on which cable carrier and STB they use as some decoders are slightly better than others.

-Robert

When I had the 5010, I had it hooked up with HDMI via Time Warner DVR cable box. Also, tried running cable box into Ant. A with the coaxial. HDMI was a much better picture. However, the coaxial was coming from the box and not directly out of the wall. I have component cables on order and will compare that to HDMI on the 5020. Blue

Originally Posted by prepress
Hello Robert,

How does the component feed from a cable box compare with the coax cable? What major improvement is there, in your view?



When I had the 5010, I had it hooked up with HDMI via Time Warner DVR cable box. Also, tried running cable box into Ant. A with the coaxial. HDMI was a much better picture. However, the coaxial was coming from the box and not directly out of the wall. I have component cables on order and will compare that to HDMI on the 5020. BlueA coax cable connection from STB --> TV will pass only SD. IMO, the component connection from your typical STB looks better than HDMI. When using a component connection, set up the STB to pass 480p (std.), 720p & 1080i, and on the 2nd settings menu select the "pass-through" option under picture settings.

Other than with BD and HD DVD players I would never use HDMI. Cable, Verizon and Satellite is best when connected via component video connections.

-Robert

Simply because component video's un-encoded and un-compressed analog output is at least as good as any digitized video and the HDCP ruins the HDMI experience by forcing the HDCP hand shaking that is unreliable and slows the response time for most commands.

Other than BD and HD DVD HDMI should not be used.

-Robert

Thanks for these suggestions Robert. However, for those of us setting up our first system, could you detail the connections a bit? That is,

1. I assume using component cables all the way you'd have: STB===> AVR ===> Kuro with a digital/optical audio from STB to AVR. OR, can you use HDMI between the STB and the AVR? Should we set the AVR to pass through if available?

2. Most newer cable/sat boxes allow one to choose your resoloution. What should we feed the AVR...480i, 720p, etc?

3. Using a BD player, the connection would be all HDMI calbes: BD===> AVR ===> Kuro. Again, what resolution should we set the BD player to feed to the AVR? Should we set the AVR to pass through if available?

If anyone else cares to chime in, I'm sure it would help a lot of new Kuro owners.

Thanks.

Edit: I was typing this up prior to your post, Optivity, so it would appear some of these questions are redundant. However, I've left my post here as I suppose it couldn't hurt to hear how others are making their connections as well.

Would using the PC input with a VGA to component adapter be as good as
using just the component?

I dont know if there's any point to my chiming in considering my low level of experience, (and I do agree with component being better for satellite compared to HDMI), but wouldn't it be best to just go straight from STB-->kuro? Why go through the AVR since Kuro's video processing is pretty good?

As far as your second and third questions, I set my STB to 1080i, I figure that the STB muts be involved in some proprietary signal decoding to a resolution and that it's not merely upconverting. It is after all a supposed HD signal. If the STB is outputting only 480p then by definition you're dealing with only an SD signal.

As far as the third question, that one seems obvious even to a noob like me. Why would you convert a signal from it's native 1080p? You shouldn't need to set a receiver to pass-through since it can't upconvert a 1080p signal.

Thanks for these suggestions Robert. However, for those of us setting up our first system, could you detail the connections a bit? That is,

1. I assume using component cables all the way you'd have: STB===> AVR ===> Kuro with a digital/optical audio from STB to AVR. OR, can you use HDMI between the STB and the AVR? Should we set the AVR to pass through if available?

2. Most newer cable/sat boxes allow one to choose your resoloution. What should we feed the AVR...480i, 720p, etc?

3. Using a BD player, the connection would be all HDMI calbes: BD===> AVR ===> Kuro. Again, what resolution should we set the BD player to feed to the AVR? Should we set the AVR to pass through if available?

If anyone else cares to chime in, I'm sure it would help a lot of new Kuro owners.

Unless you need the switching capabilities of your AVR, you are best off making a direct connection from STB, DVD player, etc., to your PDP.

You need to use an HDMI cable to support 1080p w/BD player.

No and it's a little more complicated then that, you would have to use a transcoder. Also, in past generations the vga video was very different from the component/hdmi video inputs, as it had many of the tuneable settings removed.

The best bet is to go DVI to HDMI.

Would using the PC input with a VGA to component adapter be as good as
using just the component?

Technically, 480p is EDTV :O

As far as the third question, that one seems obvious even to a noob like me. Why would you convert a signal from it's native 1080p? You shouldn't need to set a receiver to pass-through since it can't upconvert a 1080p signal.

Unless you need the switching capabilities of your AVR, you are best off making a direct connection from STB, DVD player, etc., to your PDP.

You need to use an HDMI cable to support 1080p w/BD player.
Thanks, guys. Maybe I'm making this too hard. I've also been reading one too many AVR & Pre/Pro manuals online, and I suppose it's made my head swim.

As far as the resolution settings from the STB box is concerned, I realize all of them are a bit different. I'm still not sure how SD and HD would be fed, but I would imagine a little experimentation will answer that question.

Thanks again.

Technically, 480p is EDTV :OWhich quite often looks better than SD being up converted to HD. ;)

I'm a little confused by all this. My new 151HD will be my first monitor with HDMI, and I'm buying a Pioneer receiver which will pass through HDMI, and also switch my various sources. I've bought a Harmony One remote to control everything.

I plan on hooking up my Time Warner DVR to the receiver with HDMI, and my HD DVD player with HDMI, and my eventual Blu Ray player with HDMI, all going to the receiver first, and then to the Kuro.

Is this wrong?

Watched Findind Nemo on 5020 over the weekend. Awesome! I used Optimum setting. Movie setting made it look pale while Sports made it look too bright. Colors were beuatiful. There is a scene when Dory drops the Goggles to the bottom of ocean and Nemo's Dad and Dory swim down. It's pitch black, just the sound. I have Olivia LCD and I remember seeing slight gray in this scene.

BTW, this DVD has a THX Optimizer for audio/video. I tried to use it but could not figure out how to change contrast/brightness, etc. Does Optimum setting inactivates all those controls?

I'm a little confused by all this. My new 151HD will be my first monitor with HDMI, and I'm buying a Pioneer receiver which will pass through HDMI, and also switch my various sources. I've bought a Harmony One remote to control everything.

I plan on hooking up my Time Warner DVR to the receiver with HDMI, and my HD DVD player with HDMI, and my eventual Blu Ray player with HDMI, all going to the receiver first, and then to the Kuro.

Is this wrong?
I've been looking at a Pioneer AVR as well. I believe it's manual suggests connecting this way (well...with the exception of using the SR+ control cable option). However, based on other's input, it would seem there are alternate suggestions for doing the connections.

The stock speakers on 5020 are OK, not great..... During FInding Nemo, I noticed sound distorted during loud passages, esp for low frequency. I would rather have my 5.1 system handling the sound during movie watching.

The stock speakers on 5020 are OK, not great..... During FInding Nemo, I noticed sound distorted during loud passages, esp for low frequency. I would rather have my 5.1 system handling the sound during movie watching.


Although obviously inferior to a true surround setup, the speaker performance of the Pio speakers can be dramatically increased by adding a small sub (say 6") and thus taking the low end off the tv speakers.

I'm a little confused by all this. My new 151HD will be my first monitor with HDMI, and I'm buying a Pioneer receiver which will pass through HDMI, and also switch my various sources. I've bought a Harmony One remote to control everything.

I plan on hooking up my Time Warner DVR to the receiver with HDMI, and my HD DVD player with HDMI, and my eventual Blu Ray player with HDMI, all going to the receiver first, and then to the Kuro.

Is this wrong?Not if this set-up looks best to you.

Try experimenting with both connectivity options:

1) From A/V device directly to TV (the pro-151fd is not a monitor)

2) From A/V device to AVR to TV

and then decide.

Other than with BD and HD DVD players I would never use HDMI. Cable, Verizon and Satellite is best when connected via component video connections.

-Robert

The previous HD cable box that I owned looked best over component. However, my current HD STB looks best over HDMI. YMMV.

For the 8Gs, I remember that there is at least one report that the PRO-110FD didn't correctly detect the 3:2 pulldown in 1080i over the component input.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/907kuro/index1.html

When connected via HDMI, they did not have this problem. I verified this on my PRO-110FD. For me, HDMI is giving the best picture in my particular setup.

Is there any word whether or not the 9G's have any quirks when using the component input? I suspect it's a non-issue for many folks, but I am curious. The 7G's did not have this behavior.

Watched Findind Nemo on 5020 over the weekend. Awesome! I used Optimum setting. Movie setting made it look pale while Sports made it look too bright. Colors were beuatiful. There is a scene when Dory drops the Goggles to the bottom of ocean and Nemo's Dad and Dory swim down. It's pitch black, just the sound. I have Olivia LCD and I remember seeing slight gray in this scene.

BTW, this DVD has a THX Optimizer for audio/video. I tried to use it but could not figure out how to change contrast/brightness, etc. Does Optimum setting inactivates all those controls?

aks, I agree, I have a 2 year old and when watching kids "stuff" Optimum is my preferred setting. Optimum does not allow any adjustments, other than Film Mode and Text Optimization. It's all "automatic". Blue

I couldn't wait any longer for D-Nice's review to come in, so I picked up a 5020 at Magnolia yesterday. Plugged it in, turned it on, and got the WOW that I was hoping for. This was obviously with just default settings, right out of the box.

I had the Panny 46PZ800U for 14 days and struggled whether to return it (because it's pretty darn good) and try the 5020 and all I can say is the 5020 isn't even broken in yet and the picture is worlds ahead of the 800U. The colors are more accurate, the blacks are obviously great and better, and the contrast is so much better than the 800U.

I can't imagine how this thing will look in a couple of weeks after the break-in!

Totally worth the extra $1,000!

BTW: Not even a remote buzz on this machine, if I put my ear next to the back of it, I hear a little buzz, but almost neglible.

Not if this set-up looks best to you.

Try experimenting with both connectivity options:

1) From A/V device directly to TV (the pro-151fd is not a monitor)

2) From A/V device to AVR to TV

and then decide.

I think option 2 is your only real answer if you plan on doing blu-ray. Half the fun of a blu-ray is the better sound. You won't get those audio codecs unless you go through the AVR. This is the one reason I don't understand people telling others that they should go straight to TV. Sure, it might not effect your broadcast viewing (no HD-sound anyway), but if you go blu-ray....it's the only way....

I think option 2 is your only real answer if you plan on doing blu-ray. Half the fun of a blu-ray is the better sound. You won't get those audio codecs unless you go through the AVR. This is the one reason I don't understand people telling others that they should go straight to TV. Sure, it might not effect your broadcast viewing (no HD-sound anyway), but if you go blu-ray....it's the only way....

You can direct video direct to tv via component and audio to avr using digital or tos link.

You can direct video direct to tv via component and audio to avr using digital or tos link.


You can't pass the HD audio codecs via digital coax or tos link.

Not if this set-up looks best to you.

Try experimenting with both connectivity options:

1) From A/V device directly to TV (the pro-151fd is not a monitor)

2) From A/V device to AVR to TV

and then decide.




Theoretically, if the AVR is set to pass-through for the HDMI ins/outs, won't the signal be the exact same? It's either there, or it's not, correct? (I thought HDMI signal could not be degraded in short runs)

You can direct video direct to tv via component and audio to avr using digital or tos link.

Toslink: yet another dead or dying Toshiba technology....

You can't pass the HD audio codecs via digital coax or tos link.

This is the main reason why I am going through my AVR for all devices capable of HD audio like the new pio blu ray player.

I might still consider going directly from my DVR to the TV, though, because the best audio that my DVR does is Dolby Digital Plus. In that case, I could still use the toslink from the TV to the AVR.

any update on when D-Nice will post his review etc. of the 6020?

I post about what I *see*. If the shades aren't drawn, blacks are *grey*, period. "Black" bars do NOT blend in with the bezel because, with ambient light, they aren't black, they're *grey*.

My experience agrees with what Mycroft is saying. I received a 111fd last Friday.

My first real viewing time was Friday evening, in a fairly dark room, and blacks blended with the bezel. On Saturday, I opened some curtains, so the room had much brighter ambient light. I was surprised to see that onscreen blacks no longer blended with the bezel, but were gray (albeit, a very dark gray).

Also, with the TV turned off, in a bright room, it is easy to see that the entire screen is gray.

So, I concur with the recommendation to watch this TV in a room with curtains or blinds closed. It does not have to be a pitch black room, but it should be reasonably dark. In a bright room, it is still very good, but you will not see the best picture this TV can deliver.

hmmm, maybe I don't have a defective set after all. Or perhaps yours is defective just like mine.

hmmm, maybe I don't have a defective set after all. Or perhaps yours is defective just like mine.

For God's sake, the thing isn't a black hole - open the shades, put direct sunlight on the screen, and expect it to be blacker than black -

Thats not a defect , just a characteristic of every TV known to mankind. Any surface has reflections and that reflected light will only add to the emitted light.

D-Nice, please save us with some real information.

For God's sake, the thing isn't a black hole - open the shades, put direct sunlight on the screen, and expect it to be blacker than black -

Thats not a defect , just a characteristic of every TV known to mankind

+1

I never said it was a defect. All I said was that with the lights on, the Kuro does not have pure blacks and I got jumped on.

My opinion still stands, (fwiw - since I only have 15 posts, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about), if your spouse insists on having the lights on while watching movies, then don't bother spending the extra money on a Kuro.

Even with the lights on though, the dark gray shown under those conditions should be closer to black than what you would see on some other set.

if your spouse insists on having the lights on while watching movies, then don't bother spending the extra money on a Kuro.

Actually, with some side lights on in the room the benefits of the Kuro over other displays is still readily apparent--stunning blacks and overall contrast. One should not get the impression that the only benefit of a Kuro is in a really dark room. The fact that one can have a reasonable amount of ambient light in the room and still have amazing PQ is the real advantage of the Kuro over a front projector system. Having said that, bright sunshine streaming in through windows will indeed wash out the picture.

D-Nice, please save us with some real information.

I think it might be time to send out a search and rescue party for D-Nice. Maybe some other HDTV manufacturers kidnapped him to prevent him from posting his 6020 review.

I never said it was a defect. All I said was that with the lights on, the Kuro does not have pure blacks and I got jumped on.

My opinion still stands, (fwiw - since I only have 15 posts, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about), if your spouse insists on having the lights on while watching movies, then don't bother spending the extra money on a Kuro.

Relax. :) You are correct that in a brightly lit room an LCD has an advantage by cutting down on glare, and we know that glare degrades the PQ. But you must understand that this is the Pioneer Kuro owners thread, and the posters here aren't of the casual variety;). This being the plasma forum, most posters have accepted glare as something that must be avoided by controlling the viewing environment (shades, etc). So frequenters of this forum are well aware of the glare issue, but have chosen to address it because they LOVE the wonderful and accurate PQ of plasma's, especially the Kuro line. So you aren't gonna win many fsat friends by focusing on a known shortcoming of a technology in that tech's forum:D

The moral of the story is draw the curtains, wait until it's dark, or deal with the glare.

ETA for D-Nice's review? Anyone....

You can't pass the HD audio codecs via digital coax or tos link.


Sorry for the misinformation. The sad thing is, I knew that. Brain fa*t.

ETA for D-Nice's review? Anyone....Today. I'm going to have to post it in PDF format as its 8 pages long :eek:

Today. I'm going to have to post it in PDF format as its 8 pages long :eek:

NICE :)

I'm a little confused by all this. My new 151HD will be my first monitor with HDMI, and I'm buying a Pioneer receiver which will pass through HDMI, and also switch my various sources. I've bought a Harmony One remote to control everything.

I plan on hooking up my Time Warner DVR to the receiver with HDMI, and my HD DVD player with HDMI, and my eventual Blu Ray player with HDMI, all going to the receiver first, and then to the Kuro.

Is this wrong?

Nothing wrong at all. If you think about it, the signal starts off as digital so when you output via component, you're relying on the digital>analog conversion of the STB. In some cases it can be excellent and hard to distinguish from HDMI. In other cases, if the conversion isn't good, HDMI will look better.

What component can do is 'potentially' make your life easier by eliminating any handshake issues. Having lived through first iterations of HDMI, there were enough problems to make you want to jump out of the nearest, high window...only one that would lead to immediate death.

However the more recent implentations of HDMI are much improved, and I for one don't experience any handshake issues at all now. The one wire connection is neat and clean and helps eliminate the infamous rat's nest. But if you're experiencing handshake issues, try component.

Today. I'm going to have to post it in PDF format as its 8 pages long :eek:

D-Nice.................You're the MAN!

Today. I'm going to have to post it in PDF format as its 8 pages long :eek:

Getting paid by the page, eh? :D

Today. I'm going to have to post it in PDF format as its 8 pages long :eek:

Great News, can't wait to read. I'm holding off on pulling the trigger on a 5020 until I see the review.

Strange we haven't heard from D-Nice in the last few days. I hope all is well with D-nice and family.

edit;
Whew.... Just saw D-Nice posted since I posted this.

WB D......

Today. I'm going to have to post it in PDF format as its 8 pages long :eek:

Can't wait!

My 6020 should be here tomorrow, and boy am I nervous about receiving one in one piece that doesnt buzz....:o

Great D-nice! Two persons(probably a lot more....:D)in the old sweden eagerly awaits the review.

Hooray!!!

The previous HD cable box that I owned looked best over component. However, my current HD STB looks best over HDMI. YMMV.

For the 8Gs, I remember that there is at least one report that the PRO-110FD didn't correctly detect the 3:2 pulldown in 1080i over the component input.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/907kuro/index1.html

When connected via HDMI, they did not have this problem. I verified this on my PRO-110FD. For me, HDMI is giving the best picture in my particular setup.

Is there any word whether or not the 9G's have any quirks when using the component input? I suspect it's a non-issue for many folks, but I am curious. The 7G's did not have this behavior.

My word on it is that the component hookup seemed better than HDMI for my setup, dishnetwork HD receiver.

Getting paid by the page, eh? :DI wish.

I really want to get one of these sets, probably the 5020 but am concerned that the room I plan to place the unit in has too much light. It will be placed on one wall with windows behind the viewing. There are blinds so they can be shut but during the day there will be ambient light from the windows and the near by kitchen.

Anyone have any direct feedback on how the glare will be with this unit?

I really want plasma, not wanting to go the lcd route.

Thanks for your feedback.

Jim
I have the elite 111 in a very strange room - there are two pairs of french doors, a large bay window, and two normal windows. So there is a lot of light infiltrating to say the least. With some shades drawn, the picture quality is still very, very good. It looks best in optimum mode, when the contrast gets pumped up. Reflections are not a problem at all. I was not as impressed with the 5010 picture in my environment in direct daylight, so either the elite filter must be better and/or the 9g's are bright enough to compensate. I had a sony XBR4 before the 5010, and although it was better in the day, at night it was no contest. I would say that the 111 is better than the XBR4 was in daylight.

I forgot to ask. Where will the review be? On the main page, or here?

open the shades, put direct sunlight on the screen

Who said "direct sunlight"? It is ambient light.

You are correct that in a brightly lit room an LCD has an advantage by cutting down on glare, and we know that glare degrades the PQ.

The phenomenon in question is not "glare".

Mycroft's supposition is that light from the room is illuminating the color filter, which appears gray. From my observation, I am inclined to agree with this hypothesis.

A coax cable connection from STB --> TV will pass only SD. IMO, the component connection from your typical STB looks better than HDMI. When using a component connection, set up the STB to pass 480p (std.), 720p & 1080i, and on the 2nd settings menu select the "pass-through" option under picture settings.
The 5020's limited analog connectors could be a problem for me. I may have to get a switcher or something so I can maintain the level of connectivity I enjoy now. If only SD goes through coax, that's another headache to deal with.

The 5020's limited analog connectors could be a problem for me. I may have to get a switcher or something so I can maintain the level of connectivity I enjoy now. If only SD goes through coax, that's another headache to deal with.IMO, the only A/V device that benefits from using a component connection is our cable/satellite/fios provider's STB, which only supports 480p/720p/1080i signals anyway.

I forgot to ask. Where will the review be? On the main page, or here?

It's going to replace the entire website, just go to avsforum.com later today and the review will just appear. :)

It's going to replace the entire website, just go to avsforum.com later today and the review will just appear. :)

Thanks!

IMO, the only A/V device that benefits from using a component connection is our cable/satellite/fios provider's STB, which only supports 480p/720p/1080i signals anyway.

Then there would be no more component connections available. And I have older equipment, with no HDMI. That's my main difficulty with the 9Gs at this point (barring some fatal flaw rearing its head). If I still want one when it's time to buy, I'll have to consider an ancillary expense or two to accommodate it, effectively raising its cost to me.

Prepress, how many devices do you need to connect to the set?

The 5020's limited analog connectors could be a problem for me. I may have to get a switcher or something so I can maintain the level of connectivity I enjoy now. If only SD goes through coax, that's another headache to deal with.

Having only one set of component inputs is a serious shortcoming, IMO. Those with Wii consoles would grab that one input, leaving nothing else for older sources. I have a 5080, and I'm happy that it has two sets of component inputs, used by the Wii and the XBox 360. I didn't like having the second set on the side terminals, but at least I don't have to use a component switcher or an AV receiver to do the switching.

Nothing wrong at all. If you think about it, the signal starts off as digital so when you output via component, you're relying on the digital>analog conversion of the STB. In some cases it can be excellent and hard to distinguish from HDMI. In other cases, if the conversion isn't good, HDMI will look better.

What component can do is 'potentially' make your life easier by eliminating any handshake issues. Having lived through first iterations of HDMI, there were enough problems to make you want to jump out of the nearest, high window...only one that would lead to immediate death.

However the more recent implentations of HDMI are much improved, and I for one don't experience any handshake issues at all now. The one wire connection is neat and clean and helps eliminate the infamous rat's nest. But if you're experiencing handshake issues, try component.

Interesting.

Given the general preference for component that I've observed here, I was planning on purchasing some good component cables (from BJC), running them directly to my 5020 (with optical to my AVR), and doing some A/B tests vs. HDMI to decide which way to go for my TV viewing. But does this mean that there's no real point in bothering if I have no handshake issues?

Right now I run a 2' HDMI cable from my Moto DVR to my HDMI 1.3 AVR and a 3' HDMI (which I may drop to 2') to my 5020. So far, no handshake issues apparent--but I haven't done much viewing yet (just some "proof of concept" stuff to be sure everything is working properly); still breaking in.

My LX5090 arrived today (here in the UK).

THe camera is not quite set up but I'll take some improved shots over the next few days. Here's some from the LX5090 with Blu-ray.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3280/2604688911_78fb07959f_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2604688581_d6f211f76c_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/2605518846_3d0d1abb0c_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/2604687815_af90128eb0_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/2605518072_288b193dc8_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3058/2605517582_f6d78e3df6_o.jpg

I forgot to ask. Where will the review be? On the main page, or here?I'll stick it in post 1 of this thread.

I'm a little confused by all this. My new 151HD will be my first monitor with HDMI, and I'm buying a Pioneer receiver which will pass through HDMI, and also switch my various sources. I've bought a Harmony One remote to control everything.

I plan on hooking up my Time Warner DVR to the receiver with HDMI, and my HD DVD player with HDMI, and my eventual Blu Ray player with HDMI, all going to the receiver first, and then to the Kuro.

Is this wrong?

No, and that's how I'm going to do it.

Theoretically, if the AVR is set to pass-through for the HDMI ins/outs, won't the signal be the exact same? It's either there, or it's not, correct? (I thought HDMI signal could not be degraded in short runs)

That's how I understand it. And it's why I'm going to pass everything through the receiver via HDMI. Also that way all I have to do is switch only the source on the receiver if I want to change sources.

I'm a little confused by all this. My new 151HD will be my first monitor with HDMI, and I'm buying a Pioneer receiver which will pass through HDMI, and also switch my various sources. I've bought a Harmony One remote to control everything.

I plan on hooking up my Time Warner DVR to the receiver with HDMI, and my HD DVD player with HDMI, and my eventual Blu Ray player with HDMI, all going to the receiver first, and then to the Kuro.

Is this wrong?

It's not wrong. But with every source going through the receiver, you lose the ability to have different settings for each source. That's a big penalty, IMO. Defeats the purpose of having 4 HDMI inputs.

My word on it is that the component hookup seemed better than HDMI for my setup, dishnetwork HD receiver.

Shamoo1,

Have you checked your settings while using HDMI? From what you describe, the differences are so big, that it just does not seem like HDMI alone would give you all the problems with video quality your talking about.

mark800, congrats on the new Kuro in the UK :)
nice clean pics, keep 'em comin.

the LX5090 is the equivielent of which US model, the Kuro 5020 or the Elite Pro111?

HDTV's should have at least 1 HDMI output so you can send the sound to a receiver. As it stands, if you want HD sound you need to go to the receiver first, which should be unnecessary and kinda complicated to grasp to newbies.

D-NICE, welcome back!!! Hey, I know I am sacrificing some detail, but my eyes only like the performance setting. I think I remember you saying it crushes blacks less than standard. If I am using performance mode, what should I have the brightness set to so as to see as much detail as possible but yet keep the blacks as rich as possible? Also, what settings should I use to get the picture on this setting looking the best it can? I'd really appreciate your help with this as I have been wrestling with it for awhile.

D-Nice,
Thank you for the review. It is in-depth yet easy to read..

I forgot to ask. Where will the review be? On the main page, or here?

Here's what I predict will happen:

1) D-Nice will post his review, along with a post proclaiming that he has posted the .pdf file.

2) People will post excitedly that D-Nice has finally posted the review.

3) People will post messages thanking D-Nice.

4) People will post messages dissecting the review, probably fixating on one element taken out of context until the "sky is falling" mentality resurfaces, most likely to do with access to the service menu.

5) Someone will post a question asking if D-Nice has posted his review.

6) The more patient people will respond with a link. The less patient people will respond with a terse "yes." The impatient people will respond with some comment about doing a search or some other sarcastic response in an effort to shame the person who was too lazy to read earlier posts.

7) Cycle will repeat from step 2.

Ok, the reveiw has been posted in post 2 of this thread. I had to omit some details and a few charts (some charts were actually lost with my failed harddrive) due to the length of the review....it was getting too damn long.

I wrote the review in a format similar to what one would see on CNet, HT magazine, etc, so that prospective buyers could get a relative idea on how the 6020 performs against a predecessor and competitor .

Let me know what you guys think and, as always, enjoy :)

Here's what I predict will happen:

1) D-Nice will post his review, along with a post proclaiming that he has posted the .pdf file.

2) People will post excitedly that the D-Nice has finally posted the review.

3) People will post messages thanking D-Nice.

4) People will post messages dissecting the review, probably fixating on one element taken out of context until the "sky is falling" mentality resurfaces, most likely to do with access to the service menu.

5) Someone will post a question asking if D-Nice has posted his review.

6) The more patient people will respond with a link. The less patient people will respond with a terse "yes." The impatient people will respond with some comment about doing a search or some other sarcastic response in an effort to shame the person who was too lazy to read earlier posts.

7) Cycle will repeat from step 2.Absolutely hilarious :D

HDTV's should have at least 1 HDMI output so you can send the sound to a receiver. As it stands, if you want HD sound you need to go to the receiver first, which should be unnecessary and kinda complicated to grasp to newbies.

+100

D-NICE, welcome back!!! Hey, I know I am sacrificing some detail, but my eyes only like the performance setting. I think I remember you saying it crushes blacks less than standard. If I am using performance mode, what should I have the brightness set to so as to see as much detail as possible but yet keep the blacks as rich as possible?Also, what settings should I use to get the picture on this setting looking the best it can? I'd really appreciate your help with this as I have been wrestling with it for awhile.
Picture:
AV Selection: Performance
Contrast: 30
Brightness: +4
Color: -4
Tint: R3
Sharpness: -15

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Advance
Text Optimization: Off



Power Save Mode: Off

Here's what I predict will happen:

1) D-Nice will post his review, along with a post proclaiming that he has posted the .pdf file.

2) People will post excitedly that the D-Nice has finally posted the review.

3) People will post messages thanking D-Nice.

4) People will post messages dissecting the review, probably fixating on one element taken out of context until the "sky is falling" mentality resurfaces, most likely to do with access to the service menu.

5) Someone will post a question asking if D-Nice has posted his review.

6) The more patient people will respond with a link. The less patient people will respond with a terse "yes." The impatient people will respond with some comment about doing a search or some other sarcastic response in an effort to shame the person who was too lazy to read earlier posts.

7) Cycle will repeat from step 2.


funniest post of the year so far.....!


oh and, thanks D-Nice....

My LX5090 arrived today (here in the UK).

THe camera is not quite set up but I'll take some improved shots over the next few days. Here's some from the LX5090 with Blu-ray.

Looks great!

HDTV's should have at least 1 HDMI output so you can send the sound to a receiver. As it stands, if you want HD sound you need to go to the receiver first, which should be unnecessary and kinda complicated to grasp to newbies.
That's a pretty good post for a guy with only 2 to his name. <no sarcasm intended>

Great review, D-Nice! Thanks for spending the time to give us your insight :)

Ok, the reveiw has been posted in post 2 of this thread. I had to omit some details and a few charts (some charts were actually lost with my failed harddrive) due to the length of the review....it was getting too damn long.

I wrote the review in a format similar to what one would see on CNet, HT magazine, etc, so that prospective buyers could get a relative idea on how the 6020 performs against a predecessor and competitor .

Let me know what you guys think and, as always, enjoy :)

D-nice, thanks very much, the review was indeed very helpful. I am confident waiting for my -151.

Can I PM you something about the review? (don't want to clog the thread...)

KDD

I'll stick it in post 1 of this thread.

Great! Thanks!

http://avforum.no/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/6/LX6090.JPG

LX6090

Awesome thanx D-NICE.

Just got this in from Pioneer Service --


NEW INNOVATIONS IN PLASMA PRODUCTION
9th Generation Plasma Shipped to Dealers
ASC Training is being scheduled
Inside this issue:
G9 Information 2
Meet the FSEs 2
Retirements 2
Zone Map 3
Reorganization 3
Pioneer will continue to focus on what it does best, which includes engineering game-changing plasma technology and producing
proprietary components that differentiate Pioneer plasma televisions from the rest of the market.
The next generation KURO flat panel televisions will be coming this summer as planned with no change in Pioneer production.
The only difference starting in 2009 will be that Pioneer will outsource mass production of the plasma modules before they go to finishing and
assembly plants to become Pioneer televisions.
Outsourcing product components is common practice among successful consumer electronics (CE) companies all over the
world. This is widely regarded as smart business as it allows companies to focus on their specialties. Some specialize in engineering
and innovation, like Pioneer, while others specialize in efficiency and quality mass production.
There are three core parts to a plasma television. Pioneer's plan to outsource production of only the plasma panel modules will
not impact Pioneer's technologic superiority. This will enable Pioneer to bring high-definition display innovations more efficiently
to the customer's living room, home cinema and all of the corners of our life where we can't live without HD.
We will have the ability to continue to differentiate and maintain our KURO DNA within these other areas.
For example, Pioneer utilizes powerful video processing and color filter technologies that are added in the assembly phase. All of these components work
together harmoniously to create the magic of Pioneer's quality KURO displays.

thanks, alan

audio video designs
corpus christi, tx 78411
Authorized Pioneer & Elite service & sales
361 857-7236
alanl715@aol.com

D-NICE one more question. Does turning the contrast down lower the brightness? I originally had it at 49.

Holy Crap, no one has mentioned that you can now name the inputs on the 9G!

bout time Pioneer.

overall very nice writeup/review.

Thanks, D-Nice well done. Look forward to the Elite Pro111 review soon.

http://avforum.no/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/6/LX6090.JPG

LX6090

Wow :eek: Nice setup!!

Holy Crap, no one has mentioned that you can now name the inputs on the 9G!

bout time Pioneer.


+1!

I didn't know that either. It's something I was hoping for in the 9Gs.

D-NICE one more question. Does turning the contrast down lower the brightness? I originally had it at 49.49???? That's way too high. The contrast setting controls peak brightness while the brightness setting controls the blacks (including shadow detail).

So do I turn contrast up if my room is lit during the day? What does turning contrast up do to degrade the PQ?

D-NICE, I have a moderately lit room. Do I turn the contrast up when the lights are on? What does contrast do to degrade PQ? Is 40 too high?

Awesome review D-Nice! ;)

It's very helpfully for all who want to buy the first time a plasma or want to upgrade their previous plasma to a 9G! :D Also the comparisons to the Panasonic plasma and the 8G are very good to see how the performance of the new generation against other plasma TVs is. I'm glad about your review! :)

Regards

Dnice, you do have a Pro111 coming in this week and will have a review soon on it too?

so no luck yet on the sm access to the regular 9G Kuros?

Pioneer obviously changed it, should we be conspiracists and question if they setup a log in the software to note when/if it has been accessed? hmmm.

D-Nice, was the 6020 able to fully resolve a 1080x1920 resolution test pattern when using "Dot by Dot"? I recall UMR mentioning that the orbiter would cause "smearing" on the 8Gs when using resolution tests, did you encounter that?

Thanks sooo much for your review!

My LX5090 arrived today (here in the UK).

THe camera is not quite set up but I'll take some improved shots over the next few days. Here's some from the LX5090 with Blu-ray.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3058/2605517582_f6d78e3df6_o.jpg

Holy Sh**!! That looks awesome. What model is that in English? :)

Settings, etc?

thx

bob

Wow :eek: Nice setup!!

Where's the center speaker?


bob

Holy Sh**!! That looks awesome. What model is that in English? :)

Settings, etc?

thx

bob


That is the English model....the American model is the 111fd.

D-Nice,

thanks for taking the time to post the review it is great, it is better than most professional reviews I have read. I still watch a lot of SDTV including european soccer on fox and setanta, so it looks like I will be going with an 1150 or 111. Do you think the 111 will be able to match the 1150 on hdtv and sdtv with its multiple settings and ability to turn filters off, or do you think it is more a function of 768p vs. 1080p?

regards

also consider he was comparing sd on the 60" to the 2 50" he had there. that 44% more screen area could easily bring out more flaws in the sd material.

Great review D-Nice! You are a treasure to this forum. I appreciate your expertise, your attention to detail, and your unbiased point of view. You clearly point out the strengths and any weaknesses which affords us the ability to use the information you share in a measured balanced way when evaluating our options. I've never owned a consumer product with this much shared information and support - even from the folks who actually made the product. You have made owning my 8G a much more enjoyable and educational experience. Thanks.

D-Nice,

Very nice review. I am extremely appreciative of the direct comparison between the 6020 and Panasonic 50PZ800U. I, like many others, were curious of how these two sets compared in the same room. We all expected the 6020 to prevail but it was interesting to see the detailed comparison with the array of content type. Thanks again for the review.

Thanks, D-nice. Great job. To all of those concerned about the break in DVD....notice the line item about the resulst of the 150 hr. break-in. Unless I'm mistaken D uses the break in dvd and settings.

D-Nice,

Great review!!! And thank you for taking the time to write it all out!..I know, easier said then done.

I'd be interested in the SD quality viewpoint from the 151FD or any Elite you might get your hands on.

At what point will you get an Elite to test? I think you mentioned you would get the smaller one first.


Also,

You did mention at the end about "Blotching". However I'm seeing a "Dirty-Screen" effect (with the color patterns) on my 151FD.

I may or may not see that effect with regular video content. I'll find out later tonight (with regular settings)

At the same time, I'm going to continue to break-in the set up to 200 with the break-in DVD (break-in settings) and then some regular (full screen) video content (regular settings) up to 500 hours.

Some say that "dirty screen" effects do go away. If you've ever seen that effect, has it ever gone away for you?

Here is my review of the 6020FD. Many thanks to Robert at Value Electronics for sending me an evaluation unit.

Thanks for the review. A few quick thoughts:

Got a good chuckle from your absolute distaste for several of the A/V modes:


Performance Mode
Now, one would think that Performance mode would be the mode that makes the Pioneer 6020FD shine. Well, this is not the case and its one of the worst A/V modes available on the
6020FD.

Dynamic Mode
By all means, STAY AWAY from this mode!!!!!!!

Sports Mode
This is an absolutely horrible A/V mode.

Standard Mode
This is the only that each individual A/V input can house discrete settings. Unfortunately, this is the absolute worst A/V mode available on the 6020FD.

Of those modes Performance is the only one I would defend because it can produce a "punchy" image as you point out which reminds me in many ways of images I've seen on a good Panasonic or Samsung. However since standard A/V mode is the only one with per input memory retention wouldn't it be helpful to provide settings for that mode to get the most out of it?

HDMI Overscan 0% with Dot by Dot and 2% with Full

So Dot by Dot Mode is best used for what type of source material?
PC 1080p?

I find this quote interesting in that you choose a subjective interpretation ("creamy smoothness") over the calibration numbers:
Although, the 50PZ800uwas fully calibrated to D65 and had better primary color plots, the 6020FD had a certain quality the Panasonic just didn't quite have: a creamy smoothness to the image. And this feeling remained seered into my subconscious; even though the numbers say otherwise.

I have no problem with the subjectiveness however, somethings are hard to put into numbers....

Blotching Still present. Only visible on a completely black screen.

Thanks for noting that, I wondered if it was a temp defect or an issue.

D Nice

Thanks so much for all your work and the great review. I almost hate to see the Elite review as where I live, I can only purchase one for MSRP minus a pittance discount.

Do you know if satellite dish (dish network) has less compression than cable, thereby reducing some of the shortcomings of the sd/hd cable shortcomings?

Do you think the pio new bd players will reduce some of these shortcomings?

D-Nice, great review. I'm wondering on the SD performance side, how much of this was due to comparing a 60" screen with two 50" screens? As you well know SD can't take a whole lot of 'enlargement', and I'm wondering if it wasn't at a disadvanatge because of that.

http://avforum.no/gallery/files/1/7/0/5/6/LX6090.JPG

LX6090


Two subs. COOL!

...Do you know if satellite dish (dish network) has less compression than cable, thereby reducing some of the shortcomings of the sd/hd cable shortcomings?

Do you think the pio new bd players will reduce some of these shortcomings?

the source quality of the sat and cable cos varies alot with sd. some sd material can actually look decent on one channel and you can change to another sd channel and its crap. hd sources vary too with them but usually more within expected range of good quality for a hd pq. best way to really tell is to get sat and cable feeds in your area and see for yourself if there are differences then choose.

a bluray player should give you one of the very best sources for hd material. as for upscaling sd dvd it maybe decent or even good but remember its still faux hd.

also consider he was comparing sd on the 60" to the 2 50" he had there. that 44% more screen area could easily bring out more flaws in the sd material.


Good point

Dnice, you do have a Pro111 coming in this week and will have a review soon on it too?

so no luck yet on the sm access to the regular 9G Kuros?

Pioneer obviously changed it, should we be conspiracists and question if they setup a log in the software to note when/if it has been accessed? hmmm.

"so no luck yet on the sm access to the regular 9G Kuros?"

I would be really dissapointed if the SM is un-accessable for us who like to tweak. Even though D-nice comments about how the Movie-mode colour temperature looked so right, I want to be able to correct this myself. Kudos though to pioneer to have an such correct colour temperature right out of the box. I am shure this will look impressive.

But it is a little strange that cheaper models of other plasmas sometimes includes simple RGB-cuts and gains. However, it would be very strange if not even these parameters could be found in the service menu.

If I was a ISF-calibrator, I would be VERY surprised if Pioneer didnt include those parameters.

Robert

Where's the center speaker?


bob

You don't need one if you tell the pre-amp/receiver there is no center speaker. That's what I do and for me, it solves some issues I was having with my center speaker.

So do I turn contrast up if my room is lit during the day? What does turning contrast up do to degrade the PQ?

If im not wrong, a higher contrast can sometimes change the colour in the whites. This change would be best seen on a greyscale-pattern.

Maybe some of the colour, R B, or G run out of "steam", i dont know.

What component can do is 'potentially' make your life easier by eliminating any handshake issues...

However the more recent implentations of HDMI are much improved, and I for one don't experience any handshake issues at all now. The one wire connection is neat and clean and helps eliminate the infamous rat's nest. But if you're experiencing handshake issues, try component.

How about Robert's opiniont that it potentially "slows the response time for most commands"? If there's a lag between the time the button on the remote is pushed and when the command takes effect compared to component, I can see how this would be a downside to an HDMI connection.

It's not wrong. But with every source going through the receiver, you lose the ability to have different settings for each source. That's a big penalty, IMO. Defeats the purpose of having 4 HDMI inputs.
You raise a very good point. If you wish to do, say, an ISF calibration for two sources, it sounds like this would be a disadvantage.

HDTV's should have at least 1 HDMI output so you can send the sound to a receiver. As it stands, if you want HD sound you need to go to the receiver first, which should be unnecessary and kinda complicated to grasp to newbies.
Ok, color me unable to grasp. How, exactly, are you saying the connections should be done when trying to use HDMI out on the HDTV?

Quote:
Performance Mode
Now, one would think that Performance mode would be the mode that makes the Pioneer 6020FD shine. Well, this is not the case and its one of the worst A/V modes available on the
6020FD.

Quote:
Dynamic Mode
By all means, STAY AWAY from this mode!!!!!!!

Quote:
Sports Mode
This is an absolutely horrible A/V mode.

Quote:
Standard Mode
This is the only that each individual A/V input can house discrete settings. Unfortunately, this is the absolute worst A/V mode available on the 6020FD.
*****************************

just one man's opinion, on a particular day, in a particular mood...can it really be that bad?

anyway, thanks, D-nice, for your evaluation.

Holy Crap, no one has mentioned that you can now name the inputs on the 9G!

bout time Pioneer.

overall very nice writeup/review.

Thanks, D-Nice well done. Look forward to the Elite Pro111 review soon.

Yea I got my HD-Cable labeled: "COMCRAP".
And I have my HD-DVD player Labeled : "DEFUNCT". lol

D-Nice, great review. I'm wondering on the SD performance side, how much of this was due to comparing a 60" screen with two 50" screens? As you well know SD can't take a whole lot of 'enlargement', and I'm wondering if it wasn't at a disadvanatge because of that.


I think the SD performance has alot to do with the 1150 being a 768p and the 6020 being a 1080p.
From what I have seen, Standard never looks too great on 1080p televisions. The more scaling the worse it looks.
I had the 5080HD (768p) and standard looked a hair better on it than my 6020. But I will tell you this, The 6020 renders the best SD picture I have ever seen on a 1080p set. As for the 151, We will see. but I suspect it will do a little better than the 6020 due to it having a good amount of settings to choose from.

How about Robert's opiniont that it potentially "slows the response time for most commands"? If there's a lag between the time the button on the remote is pushed and when the command takes effect compared to component, I can see how this would be a downside to an HDMI connection.




I honestly haven't noticed that in my setup. Whether it's BR, HD-DVD or FIOS, commands are quick with no noticeable delay.

I think the SD performance has alot to do with the 1150 being a 768p and the 6020 being a 1080p.
From what I have seen, Standard never looks too great on 1080p televisions. The more scaling the worse it looks.
I had the 5080HD (768p) and standard looked a hair better on it than my 6020. But I will tell you this, The 6020 renders the best SD picture I have ever seen on a 1080p set. As for the 151, We will see. but I suspect it will do a little better than the 6020 due to it having a good amount of settings to choose from.

As has been said, much has to do with your service provider. On FIOS, most of the SD channels look great and on my Pro 150, the SD picture is as good as I've seen.

Ken Ross,

I remember there was a small debate about the CS2 blues on the 8G's not looking real world like CS1. Have you heard anything about this being different in the 9G Elites?

I'm probably asking too soon, but just wanted to throw it out there. Thanks.

D-Nice,

Any comments if one is using an Oppo 980 to view and upscale DVD's? Did you have a chance to view any DVD's this way? Would you have the Oppo do the upscaling or would you have the Kuro?

Ken Ross,

I remember there was a small debate about the CS2 blues on the 8G's not looking real world like CS1. Have you heard anything about this being different in the 9G Elites?

I'm probably asking too soon, but just wanted to throw it out there. Thanks.

I haven't heard anything, but I've always felt as long as I've got CS1, I'll be fine. I've never switched back to CS2 because of that issue.

I have the elite 111 in a very strange room - there are two pairs of french doors, a large bay window, and two normal windows. So there is a lot of light infiltrating to say the least. With some shades drawn, the picture quality is still very, very good. It looks best in optimum mode, when the contrast gets pumped up. Reflections are not a problem at all. I was not as impressed with the 5010 picture in my environment in direct daylight, so either the elite filter must be better and/or the 9g's are bright enough to compensate. I had a sony XBR4 before the 5010, and although it was better in the day, at night it was no contest. I would say that the 111 is better than the XBR4 was in daylight.

And I thought my setup was bright with one set of French doors, an equal size half round above it (cathedral ceiling), and two sets of large double-casement windows on either side. All on a southern exposure.

I have a moderately lit room. Do I turn the contrast up when the lights are on? What does contrast do to degrade PQ? Is 40 too high?

Thanks D-Nice :)

I find this interesting:

"Dynamic Mode
By all means, STAY AWAY from this mode!!!!!!!"

This is the only Mode the xx20 has that the Elite does not ... one would think it was added for a reason :confused:

Great job with the review D-Nice, thanks for sharing it with us, it really helped me to keep my decision of buying a Pioneer 5020FD (had some 2nd thoughts of buying a Panasonic 50PZ800u, but not anymore :P).

I have a question though, did you professionally calibrate your 6020FD panel for the review? because I live in a country where unfortunately there are no professional calibrators at all. I'd really appreciate if you could give me some hints about what to buy/do to get a picture even close to the picture you're getting by myself.

Holy Sh**!! That looks awesome. What model is that in English? :)

Settings, etc?

thx

bob

BTW, What is that movie?


thx

bob

BTW, What is that movie?


thx

bob

Chicken Little?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371606/

thanks, D-nice. well worth the wait.

For SD DVDs and even HD cable, sounds like my 1150HD has some distinct advantages (helping me resist the temptation to upgrade!). But perhaps you will find that the elite version of the 9G overcomes some of the flaws of the 6020--so we'll have to stay tuned!

Chicken Little?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371606/

Yep,

I didn't remember it looking that incredible ;)


bob

Thanks D-Nice for a nice technical review. Quick question. You recommended Movie mode for all viewing. Are there also recommended settings for picture such as contrast, brightness, color, etc? Would they need to be continullay changed when one watches cable vs dvd vs BR? Also would it require modifications during daytime viewing vs nighttime? Wouldn't Optimum serve all these needs?

D-Nice,

In regards to Robert's comment that a SA 8300 HD should be connected to the Pioneer via component, did you have your SA 8300 connected via HDMI or Component? Which do you prefer?

D-Nice:

Bravo on a very nice write up. I see that your usual economy with words used here on the fourms was thankfully not practiced in writing your review.:p

Regarding your findings with cable and the SA 8300HD STB...
Because you and I are in the same cable provider service area and use the same STB, I'm natually disappointed in your findings. A few pages back in this thread the discussion had turned on the best way to connect A/V gear to the Pio. Opinions varried, so could you share how you were connected up during your tests? That is, were you running HDMI or component, and were you going through an AVR? (My apologies if you've specified this elsewhere.)

BTW, my 151FD is now in-house (running the break-in disk) so if there's any reason you need access to one, feel free to make the 90min drive. You are welcome in my home anytime.

-Dean

Thanks for the review. After reading the review it sounds like the only settings worth watching are Movie and Optimum. The problem i have is Optimum your at the mercy of the display controlling every setting. The Movie mode is close to 6500k but i like my color temp slightly higher. I usually use medium temp. I will have to see this PDP in person before i buy one. I feel pioneer is forcing people to buy the Elite.:mad:

Good review Dnice. I wonder when Cnets review will come out to compare.


The blothches sound like a concern and also the no RGB adjustments in the service menu. Can the 6020 be able to be 'calibrated' to spec officially? Sounds like no.

D-Nice, great review. I'm wondering on the SD performance side, how much of this was due to comparing a 60" screen with two 50" screens? As you well know SD can't take a whole lot of 'enlargement', and I'm wondering if it wasn't at a disadvanatge because of that.

This is the very thought I had while reading the review. Going to 60 inches does add a non-trivial 1/5 to the 50-inchers' diagonal length. That's a tidy bit.

D-Nice, I tried--I honestly tried to stay quiet and behind the scenes and express my deep gratitude to you via a private message, but as you do not accept PMs, I have to do it here. Your review was exactly the sort of thing AVS'ers crave and seek on these forums. You answered all the really important questions I had and thereby convinced me that, at a minimum, I'll have to wait for an Elite or, if justified, maybe even a Signature.

The apparent (unconfirmed, I know, but my unhappy suspicions are growing) absence of CMS controls and even just the basic RGB and gamma controls in the service menu is a total deal-breaker for me. As you implied in your review, why would anyone want to pay $6,000 for a display that looks to be almost pathologically resistant to proper calibration?? I just don't get it; I really don't. It seems like Pioneer consciously tried to lock us out of all those beautiful controls that the 8Gs had and that any ISF'er/serious tweaker so ardently desires. But why?? That was one of the great beauties of those sets. Are they hoping, by this tactic, to sell more Elites, perhaps? I'm at a loss. I mean, good Heavens--we can't even get proper D65 now, which I regard as basic. And no hope of flattening out the gamma?? What is up with that? Kuros, all Kuros, are, by their nature, appealing to a niche market--specifically, fussy guys like us. I think Pioneer would do well to reassess the desires and priorities of that niche market.

I'm still thinking very hard about skipping this iteration altogether, though, and waiting for the 10Gs to roll out (assuming that the 10G Elites, at any rate, will still have all the proper SM controls). 10 lumen still sounds doggoned sexy to me. We'll see...

Anyway, thanks very much for working so long on that review. It answered a lot for me.

Your newly repaired PC is well, I hope and trust? No actual data loss? HD crashes are the worst. I've had 'em and I hate 'em so bad, I don't know where to begin.

Yours,

David

My LX5090 arrived today (here in the UK).

THe camera is not quite set up but I'll take some improved shots over the next few days. Here's some from the LX5090 with Blu-ray.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3280/2604688911_78fb07959f_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2604688581_d6f211f76c_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/2605518846_3d0d1abb0c_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/2604687815_af90128eb0_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/2605518072_288b193dc8_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3058/2605517582_f6d78e3df6_o.jpg


Awesome pics. Thanks for sharing

Is there a HD image gallery for pioneer like the panasonic viera has? I am currently running the break in images in loop off of my USB jumpdrive on 5020. It would be nice to run HD images in loop when friends are over. Of course we can watch a movie but till then.... Nice way to show off the pio.
Also can we use our digital camera to capture HD images? General questions. Apologies if asking in the wrong forum.

D-Nice, thanks for the 6020FD review. Really has me thinking even more seriously about the Elite models, though. Are the rumors true that you may be viewing an Elite soon?

If you decide to include any of those other rescued graphs or charts in a separate PDF, that would be sweet.

This is the very thought I had while reading the review. Going to 60 inches does add a non-trivial 1/5 to the 50-inchers' diagonal length. That's a tidy bit.....


yes, that non trivial, tidy bit is a HUGE 44% more screen area for the 60" over the 50".

when will cnet be reviewing the 9g's?

Fantastic job on the review D! Cant wait to hear what you think of the Elites once you get your 111. I wish I could have my by this week:( I guess I'll just have to live vicariously through you for now:)

D-Nice, Thank you for the great write up on the 6020, it really helped answer some questions I had about the 9Gs. It sounds like Pioneer made it such that you can, in the famous words of Ron Popeil: "Set it and forget it" in Movie mode and be happy with a videophile picture w/o all the hassell of tweaking and extra expense of hiring a professional calibration.

You did mention that the build quality seemed slightly worse than the 8Gs. Could you eleaborate a little more on that point?

thanks again!

D-Nice,

I had really been looking forward to your review and now that I've read it I truly appreciate your thorough insights on the 6020FD. Unfortunately, though, I'm even more torn now on whether to buy that panel or move up to the Elite 151FD. In your expert opinion, does the omission of settings that were available on the 8G cripple this set enough for you to recommend moving up to the Elite? Also, do you think SD DVD and standard def programming performance on the Elite will be better than you found it to be on the 6020? Finally, if you were spending your own money, which one would you buy? Again, I appreciate your review and all the other contributions you've made to this site and I want to personally thank you for all the time and effort you have put into helping us make informed purchase decisions. :cool:

So do I turn contrast up if my room is lit during the day? What does turning contrast up do to degrade the PQ?Yes, you can increase the contrast during daytime viewing.....just make sure you do not go beyond 43 as you will start to crush whites.

D-NICE, I have a moderately lit room. Do I turn the contrast up when the lights are on? What does contrast do to degrade PQ? Is 40 too high?40 is fine for a contrast setting.

Dnice, you do have a Pro111 coming in this week and will have a review soon on it too?Yes. It should be here on Wednesday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will not be damaged.

so no luck yet on the sm access to the regular 9G Kuros?Not yet. If and when I get access to the SM and verify the existence of RGB controls, I'll update the review.

Pioneer obviously changed it, should we be conspiracists and question if they setup a log in the software to note when/if it has been accessed? hmmm.Yes they changed it. However, they won't be able to keep the access sequence a secret much longer ;)

D-Nice, was the 6020 able to fully resolve a 1080x1920 resolution test pattern when using "Dot by Dot"?Yes

I recall UMR mentioning that the orbiter would cause "smearing" on the 8Gs when using resolution tests, did you encounter that?

Thanks sooo much for your review!There was slight smearing when setting the Orbiter to Mode 2.

Thanks D-Nice :)

I find this interesting:

"Dynamic Mode
By all means, STAY AWAY from this mode!!!!!!!"

This is the only Mode the xx20 has that the Elite does not ... one would think it was added for a reason :confused:
Are you talking about the 9G only as Dynamic was definitely in the 8G elite. I
kinda hope they got rid of it because it was really pointless.

D-Nice,

thanks for taking the time to post the review it is great, it is better than most professional reviews I have read.Thanks for the kind words.

I still watch a lot of SDTV including european soccer on fox and setanta, so it looks like I will be going with an 1150 or 111. Do you think the 111 will be able to match the 1150 on hdtv and sdtv with its multiple settings and ability to turn filters off, or do you think it is more a function of 768p vs. 1080p?

regardsWe shall see :)

It's been said many times but great review D-Nice! The review was very professional looking and flowed very good.

I know that with a signal 9Gs are near infinite contrast, and I know letter box black levels blend in the darkness, but how close are "dim" scenes to reaching perfect blacks?

BTW, the 8G has been sold and I'll likely buy a 9G this week :D.

Great review D-Nice! You are a treasure to this forum. I appreciate your expertise, your attention to detail, and your unbiased point of view. You clearly point out the strengths and any weaknesses which affords us the ability to use the information you share in a measured balanced way when evaluating our options. I've never owned a consumer product with this much shared information and support - even from the folks who actually made the product. You have made owning my 8G a much more enjoyable and educational experience. Thanks.Thanks for the kind words :)

D-Nice,
I gotta say, your review was a whole lot better than I expected. I expected
it to be overly technical and stuff, but you were to the point and yet had so
much information/insight. Thanks for the review. I gotta say, my views on
the 6020 has changed quite a bit after reading it. I still want my 141, but I
sure do think the 6020 will do well in stores like BB and such.

PS - I forgot to mention, I liked your review a whole lot better than the
professional ones. I can't wait for your comments on the Elite later. Heh,
I'm sure you just about sold that 6020 that was donated with that review. :)

D-Nice,

Very nice review. I am extremely appreciative of the direct comparison between the 6020 and Panasonic 50PZ800U. I, like many others, were curious of how these two sets compared in the same room. We all expected the 6020 to prevail but it was interesting to see the detailed comparison with the array of content type. Thanks again for the review.Thanks for the kind words. To be honest, I initially thought my 1150 would best the 6020 in every category besides black level and the 50PZ800u would be a formidable adversary in the color department. Boy was I wrong.

Thanks, D-nice. Great job. To all of those concerned about the break in DVD....notice the line item about the resulst of the 150 hr. break-in. Unless I'm mistaken D uses the break in dvd and settings.I practice what I preach :)

Great review! Thank you!

Did you try upconverting the sd dvd's? To me movies look best on the oppo 980 with it set to 720p. Did you think movies looked better when they were upconverted first? And if so, then would you think it would be worthwhile to get a better dvd player like the 983, since I wouldn't need to send the signal through 480i anymore?

D-Nice,

Great review!!! And thank you for taking the time to write it all out!..I know, easier said then done.

I'd be interested in the SD quality viewpoint from the 151FD or any Elite you might get your hands on.

At what point will you get an Elite to test? I think you mentioned you would get the smaller one first. Thanks for the Kind words. I'll have the 111FD this week. Give me 1.5 weeks to post a review.


Also,

You did mention at the end about "Blotching". However I'm seeing a "Dirty-Screen" effect (with the color patterns) on my 151FD.

I may or may not see that effect with regular video content. I'll find out later tonight (with regular settings)

At the same time, I'm going to continue to break-in the set up to 200 with the break-in DVD (break-in settings) and then some regular (full screen) video content (regular settings) up to 500 hours.

Some say that "dirty screen" effects do go away. If you've ever seen that effect, has it ever gone away for you?I've never seen the "dirty screen effect" on any Kuro. I'll keep an eye out for it on the 111FD.

Awesome pics. Thanks for sharing

What model camera?

thx

bob

Thanks for the review. A few quick thoughts:

Got a good chuckle from your absolute distaste for several of the A/V modes:


Of those modes Performance is the only one I would defend because it can produce a "punchy" image as you point out which reminds me in many ways of images I've seen on a good Panasonic or Samsung. However since standard A/V mode is the only one with per input memory retention wouldn't it be helpful to provide settings for that mode to get the most out of it? I'll send you some tomorrow.

So Dot by Dot Mode is best used for what type of source material?
PC 1080p? 1080i/p

I find this quote interesting in that you choose a subjective interpretation ("creamy smoothness") over the calibration numbers:


I have no problem with the subjectiveness however, somethings are hard to put into numbers.... It's still hard for me to fathom this conclusion. However, it's the truth based on what I saw.

Thanks for noting that, I wondered if it was a temp defect or an issue.Hopefully the blotching will be minimized, if not eradicated, in later production batches...which was suppose to be done already (Pioneer!?!?!?!).

D Nice

Thanks so much for all your work and the great review. I almost hate to see the Elite review as where I live, I can only purchase one for MSRP minus a pittance discount.Thanks for the kind words. You need to press for a better discount with your Elite dealer ;)

Do you know if satellite dish (dish network) has less compression than cable, thereby reducing some of the shortcomings of the sd/hd cable shortcomings?Nope. It might actually be worse.

Do you think the pio new bd players will reduce some of these shortcomings?Doubt it.

D-Nice, great review. I'm wondering on the SD performance side, how much of this was due to comparing a 60" screen with two 50" screens? As you well know SD can't take a whole lot of 'enlargement', and I'm wondering if it wasn't at a disadvanatge because of that.Great question. However I don't know the answer just yet. I'm going to check this screen size theory with the 111FD.

D-Nice, is the movie mode also the dimmest of all the presets? I find the Cinema mode on the new Panny's rather dull and yellow, just wondering how the movie mode on the 6020 compares.

Great review. Can't wait to hear the elite review. Now a question for you folks out there. Funds permitting I may try to replace my current panny 50" 60U with the pio. I unfortunately am not made of money, however, and its unlikely that I can afford a 60" elite. So here are my options:

1) 5020 which I can mount on my BDI furniture (see my link below). Use the money saved on not buying the elite on gas.

2) 50" Elite which I can mount and then I suppose get ISF calibrated.

3) 6020 which I cannot mount (it is too large) but place on the BDI Avion 5029.

I sit 10 ft away from the TV right now. My current 50" plasma seems like a good size but seems a bit small when I am watching letterbox material (especially 2.35 to 1 material). However, I am also concerned of the size of a 60". First, will a 60" be too large at 10ft away? Alternatively, does getting the 50" elite ISF calibrated trump the extra 10" in size?

Second, I live in a condo on the 2nd fl and plan on moving in the next 3-4 years (and this will be my next TV for at least the next 5 years). Is it just a dumb idea to buy such a large TV that could get damaged in a move in a few years? Is it even advisable to move such a large set in a move? As I live in a condo, there is no storage for the box so it must be thrown out. Thoughts are appreciated.

Are there also recommended settings for picture such as contrast, brightness, color, etc?Post 1 of the non-Elite owner's thread :)

Would they need to be continually changed when one watches cable vs dvd vs BR?Nothing beyond the brightness setting.

Also would it require modifications during daytime viewing vs nighttime?Perhaps the Contrast setting would need to be lowered at night. However, you can engage the room light control to alleviate constant setting changes.

Wouldn't Optimum serve all these needs?Yes, but it's performance is not where near Movie mode.

D-Nice -

Thanks for your review. Great stuff.

:D

Possible dumb question, but would satellite dish (dish network) display better on the 6020 or 111fd or a Samsung LCD LN52A750?

Post 1 of the non-Elite owner's thread :)

Nothing beyond the brightness setting.

Perhaps the Contrast setting would need to be lowered at night. However, you can engage the room light control to alleviate constant setting changes.

Yes, but it's performance is not where near Movie mode.

Good Review D,
I thought it was a great review and above all, Honest! You were very honest and straight about your disappointment with Pioneer on taking the amount of settings away that they did. I totally agree. Like you said, You never give customers something and then take it away.
Although I think the Elites look even more like the better alternative for Die-hard HD fans this year than last, I still think the 6020 is the best display out there with the exception of the Elite.
This gets me to thinking that the Elite will be so awesome that words will be hard to describe it.
I am eager to hear if the Elite is "far above" the 6020 or if it is "just a little better".

Anyway,
Great review.

-The Chad:D

I have Dish Network, and frankly, the picture quality is pretty bad. The smaller the TV the better it will look. :(

Great review D-Nice. It takes a lot of guts to publish a review. I guess I need to take a look at that 6020 vs 6010 (if they still have it) again. To be honest the advantage of the 1150 in non Bluray performance was also a surprise. As one other posted mentioned, one would want to rethink things if you want to watch a lot of broadcast content.

Any chance you'll publish a similar review of your 1150? You have all the data. I have an interest since I can find a new one below 3k.

I sit 10 ft away from the TV right now. My current 50" plasma seems like a good size but seems a bit small when I am watching letterbox material (especially 2.35 to 1 material). However, I am also concerned of the size of a 60". First, will a 60" be too large at 10ft away? Alternatively, does getting the 50" elite ISF calibrated trump the extra 10" in size?

Second, I live in a condo on the 2nd fl and plan on moving in the next 3-4 years (and this will be my next TV for at least the next 5 years). Is it just a dumb idea to buy such a large TV that could get damaged in a move in a few years? Is it even advisable to move such a large set in a move? As I live in a condo, there is no storage for the box so it must be thrown out. Thoughts are appreciated.

I think I can answer both questions and I share(d) your situation with respect
to a condo:

1. 60 inches is *PERFECT* for 10 feet away. My couch in my previous condo
was 8-feet away which was a tad bit close, but when I moved the couch
and stood at the wall (10-feet away) it was absolutely perfect! (I owned a
Pro-150FD 60 inch elite)

2. 3-4 years is a long time, so you should concentrate more on enjoying the
TV *NOW* and worry about moving later. You can always use the TV as
leverage when selling the condo. I didn't expect to sell my 150FD, but someone
actually loved the TV as much as my condo and made an extra offer over
his original bid to get it. If you decide to keep the TV, then simply be careful
and get lots of insurance for your TV. I'd suggest having it moved separately,
on its own.

This gets me to thinking that the Elite will be so awesome that words will be hard to describe it.
I am eager to hear if the Elite is "far above" the 6020 or if it is "just a little better".

I hear ya, a whole slew of options more.


Do you notice any blothches in the blacks chad, anything to worry about ?

I have Dish Network, and frankly, the picture quality is pretty bad. The smaller the TV the better it will look. :(

But will it look better on Plasma or LCD? I watch a lot of Broadcast shows. ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, Sci/Fi, ABC Family, Life Time, USA, TNT and the CW.

D-nice, thanks for the review of the 6020.

Do you recommend leaving the "Room Light Sensor" on or off?

Any chance you'll publish a similar review of your 1150? You have all the data.

+1 Although I already own the 1150 (mostly due to your praise of the PQ and adjustability :)) I would love to hear an added pro review especially in conjunction with your upcoming review of the 111FD Elite.

I hope I need not mention how much your contribution to this forum as well all your help has been appreciated & for me at least keeps me coming back to these threads daily. :cool:

From the PDP-6020FD manual, page 111:

Note: When signals are input from the HDMI terminals, no signals are output from the DIGITAL OUT terminal if they are copy guarded.

To set the DIGITAL OUT terminal (OPTICAL) for your AV Receiver, follow the steps below.

Access the System Setup through the Setup.
Select Digital Audio Output from the System Setup menu.
Select an option from the submenu.

Dolby Digital outputs in Dolby Digital for the Dolby format and
outputs in PCM for the PCM format (default)
PCM outputs in the PCM format regardless of signal type



What is the meaning of that first sentence? Does it mean that copy-protected HDMI content won't output a signal through the TV's digital output even if the menu is set to PCM? I assume "PCM" here means a standard 2-channel LPCM signal, so why won't the TV output that? I thought the point of copy protection is to protect the full-resolution digital content, not a downmixed low-resolution signal. I believe (but I could be mistaken) that any blu-ray player will output 2-channel LPCM though an S/PDIF output if you ask it to. So why not the TV?

It's actually an important feature for me to get a downmixed 2-channel PCM signal from my TV with all content. The Samsung and Panasonic TVs I'm looking at don't have this menu selection and will always output Dolby Digital from ATSC broadcast signals. It sounds like Pioneer can do PCM with that menu setting, but I want to make sure I also get PCM from my HDMI sources, also.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

This is the very thought I had while reading the review. Going to 60 inches does add a non-trivial 1/5 to the 50-inchers' diagonal length. That's a tidy bit.

D-Nice, I tried--I honestly tried to stay quiet and behind the scenes and express my deep gratitude to you via a private message, but as you do not accept PMs, I have to do it here. Your review was exactly the sort of thing AVS'ers crave and seek on these forums. You answered all the really important questions I had and thereby convinced me that, at a minimum, I'll have to wait for an Elite or, if justified, maybe even a Signature.

The apparent (unconfirmed, I know, but my unhappy suspicions are growing) absence of CMS controls and even just the basic RGB and gamma controls in the service menu is a total deal-breaker for me. As you implied in your review, why would anyone want to pay $6,000 for a display that looks to be almost pathologically resistant to proper calibration?? I just don't get it; I really don't. It seems like Pioneer consciously tried to lock us out of all those beautiful controls that the 8Gs had and that any ISF'er/serious tweaker so ardently desires. But why?? That was one of the great beauties of those sets. Are they hoping, by this tactic, to sell more Elites, perhaps? I'm at a loss. I mean, good Heavens--we can't even get proper D65 now, which I regard as basic. And no hope of flattening out the gamma?? What is up with that? Kuros, all Kuros, are, by their nature, appealing to a niche market--specifically, fussy guys like us. I think Pioneer would do well to reassess the desires and priorities of that niche market.

I'm still thinking very hard about skipping this iteration altogether, though, and waiting for the 10Gs to roll out (assuming that the 10G Elites, at any rate, will still have all the proper SM controls). 10 lumen still sounds doggoned sexy to me. We'll see...

Anyway, thanks very much for working so long on that review. It answered a lot for me.

Your newly repaired PC is well, I hope and trust? No actual data loss? HD crashes are the worst. I've had 'em and I hate 'em so bad, I don't know where to begin.

Yours,

David

Thank you for the review, d-nice.

"The apparent (unconfirmed, I know, but my unhappy suspicions are growing) absence of CMS controls and even just the basic RGB and gamma controls in the service menu is a total deal-breaker for me."

This quote is to important to be forgotten. If this is true, I will not buy Pioneer. Although it would be strange if those control was absent. Especially for a ISF-calibrator.....:eek:

Robert

Dnice,

Thanks for the review and your honesty. Personally, thanks for the motion resoution test :) It'll be interesting to see what the Pro111 can offer and I certainly look forward to that review also. I wonder if the fit n' finish as you stated took a hit but would be improved in the Elites. What about the fit and finish would say took a hit?

Prepress, how many devices do you need to connect to the set?

Having only one set of component inputs is a serious shortcoming, IMO. Those with Wii consoles would grab that one input, leaving nothing else for older sources. I have a 5080, and I'm happy that it has two sets of component inputs, used by the Wii and the XBox 360. I didn't like having the second set on the side terminals, but at least I don't have to use a component switcher or an AV receiver to do the switching.

Actually, I have two components to connect: A Pioneer Elite DVL-91 and a Marantz DV-8400. The Marantz is double-connected, meaning I have both video and audio going to the TV on one terminal, and a video-only connection with the audio going to my stereo (through the CD terminal on my preamp). The Pioneer is also connectable this way, though at present I'm using only one connection for it. So if I don't have time or desire to fire up the main rig, I can just turn on the player and TV (the sound is good from my current TV). With a new TV, if I include a cable box, I'd need three component connections to maintain current configuration, plus an extra S-video. The current TV has no component connections; everything is S-video.

If the 5020 is my final choice, then I'll have to buy something for connectivity's sake or give up the convenience of my current set-up. So the 5020 will have to be not just better, but WAY better than every other TV I'm considering, essentially forcing me to buy it.

Great review. Can't wait to hear the elite review. Now a question for you folks out there. Funds permitting I may try to replace my current panny 50" 60U with the pio. I unfortunately am not made of money, however, and its unlikely that I can afford a 60" elite. So here are my options:

1) 5020 which I can mount on my BDI furniture (see my link below). Use the money saved on not buying the elite on gas.

2) 50" Elite which I can mount and then I suppose get ISF calibrated.

3) 6020 which I cannot mount (it is too large) but place on the BDI Avion 5029.

I sit 10 ft away from the TV right now. My current 50" plasma seems like a good size but seems a bit small when I am watching letterbox material (especially 2.35 to 1 material). However, I am also concerned of the size of a 60". First, will a 60" be too large at 10ft away? Alternatively, does getting the 50" elite ISF calibrated trump the extra 10" in size?

Second, I live in a condo on the 2nd fl and plan on moving in the next 3-4 years (and this will be my next TV for at least the next 5 years). Is it just a dumb idea to buy such a large TV that could get damaged in a move in a few years? Is it even advisable to move such a large set in a move? As I live in a condo, there is no storage for the box so it must be thrown out. Thoughts are appreciated.

If you watch a lot of material with extreme close-ups, it could get overpowering if you're too close. Room size is a factor also.

I Finally got to really watch a Blu-ray on my 6020.
I watched "house of 2000 corpses".
Believe it or not, This is one of my favorite movies for showing off what an HDTV can do.
And the 6020 Did extremly well. I have never seen this movie look so good.
The best part I think is the beginning when The Travelling teenagers make a pit stop at Captain Spaldings fried chicken and Murder ride.
It starts out when the teenagers are in the gas station talking to Spalding and Spalding has his clown makeup on. I could really see alotof detail in Spaldings face. From the wrinkles on his face to the runny clown makeup. And the colors are great also,
Next, Spalding take the teenagers on the "murder ride".
I have never seen this scene look so good and the shadow detail to be so great. The entire murder ride is in the "semi dark" with neon blacklight colors glowing on the walls.
Man it looks good on the 6020.
I am very glad that I was able to get my Playstation working again.
It had completly stopped reading the blu-ray disks. I was already looking into buying another one when I decided to just take the PS3 totally apart and clean the Blu-ray lens with a q-tip and some isopropyl alcohol.
As soon as I re-assembled it I put a Blu-ray in and Bingo! It read the disk immediatly. So I tried puting in 10 different movies and every single one read just fine. My luck is getting better!
Taking apart the PS3 was flat out simple. If one needed to change out the disk player it is simple.
When my Camera Batteries get charged I will take some more pictures of the 6020 and post them.

-The Chad