Man, I have to say that's a deal-killer for me. Reading Step 2, it's clear that I would have NO advocate and NO one who shares my interest if I have a problem with the set. Virtually everyone else's interest is in that one tech saying "There's no problem...I think it's normal...end of story." And with a product where you yourself said there's only a 50-50 chance of getting a non-buzzer....

advocate would be your dealer and if we don't like one tech's opinion we get another one out. But I am giving too much info away now ;)

advocate would be your dealer and if we don't like one tech's opinion we get another one out. But I am giving too much info away now ;)

That's important info though! And certainly appreciated by your customers.

I would have burned it but my soon to be 3 year old son decided to remove a part from my Dell DVD drive, and it is inoperable at present.

The good news is the Break-in DVD just arrived in the mail. I was starting to go stir crazy watching "Cars" :D

T minus 150 hours and counting.....

Now I just need a Universal remote. I have 5 remotes right now. The biggest pain is the Directv remote changes the stations, while the Denon 3808CI remote must be used to change the volume.

Robert carries the UCR MX900I remote. Was almost deadset on the Harmony 890. Anybody use either one??
I have an 880 (similar to the 890) and have found it very capable. The Web-only programming - in the beginning - takes a little bit to get used to and can be frustrating at first until you figure out their GUI but once you get the hang of it the remote's flexibility is outstanding for function.

I have 8 components in my rack and the 880 controls them all....

Good luck on your choice....

advocate would be your dealer and if we don't like one tech's opinion we get another one out. But I am giving too much info away now ;)
But the best bet would probably be on the first tech visit b/c the second tech comes in to give a second opinion and they may or may not come with a neutral stance

But the best bet would probably be on the first tech visit b/c the second tech comes in to give a second opinion and they may or may not come with a neutral stance

I am talking about a different center :)

[QUOTE=D-Nice;14191456]I recommend Movie mode.


d-nice,

thanks for the reply... got it on all count... so i just do straight out movie mode, no tweaking needed??? thanks...

well i took the top off the entertainment center (read the manuel and i didn't have enough height clearance for cooling sopposedly you need 19"). made the rest of the night much much simpliar.

i forgot to mention it earlier but they ended up digged the entire street up today, so the delivery guy had to park about 4 houses away and he dollied it all the way up to my house through everyones lawns.

he seemed cool about it at first, but by time he got to the front door i think he was kinda ticked oh well. he flipped the box forward and it hit the ground kinda hard. so then i told him i was going to inspect it before i signed and i don't think he liked that. the first thing he started to say was something about that costs extra, then he stopped and told me the shipping companys policy was to make me sign first and that i could after inspection refuse it(kinda think he was pulling my leg)

i signed and everything looked mint, anyways the 151 is a great tv. ive been watching cable and it looks alot better than i expect. the only negitive thing i have to say about the set is that it is indeed a buzzer, i have to turn the sound up to 20 before it goes away. thats not 2 bad i guess, but that forces me to have the set a bit louder than i would like. the pitch changes sometimes so when youve kinda forgot about it that reminds you. this is my first day and my hearing is pretty good, so take it with a grain of salt.

just to be clear tho, overall i am happy with the set.

well i took the top off the entertainment center (read the manuel and i didn't have enough height clearance for cooling sopposedly you need 19"). made the rest of the night much much simpliar.

i forgot to mention it earlier but they ended up digged the entire street up today, so the delivery guy had to park about 4 houses away and he dollied it all the way up to my house through everyones lawns.

he seemed cool about it at first, but by time he got to the front door i think he was kinda ticked oh well. he flipped the box forward and it hit the ground kinda hard. so then i told him i was going to inspect it before i signed and i don't think he liked that. the first thing he started to say was something about that costs extra, then he stopped and told me the shipping companys policy was to make me sign first and that i could after inspection refuse it(kinda think he was pulling my leg)

i signed and everything looked mint, anyways the 151 is a great tv. ive been watching cable and it looks alot better than i expect. the only negitive thing i have to say about the set is that it is indeed a buzzer, i have to turn the sound up to 20 before it goes away. thats not 2 bad i guess, but that forces me to have the set a bit louder than i would like. the pitch changes sometimes so when youve kinda forgot about it that reminds you. this is my first day and my hearing is pretty good, so take it with a grain of salt.

just to be clear tho, overall i am happy with the set.

Congratulations on the 151!

When you get a chance, could you check for streaks as described above? Just want to find out if the elites have them also or if it's just the regular kuros. Thanks

I was wondering, wouldn't a good way to subjectively judge black levels be something like "Renaissance" on HD-DVD or "Persepolis" on Blu-Ray? These are animated films. Renaissance is highly stylized, and is solid black and white. There is no gray. I have yet to see Persepolis but I believe it is somewhat similar in that it's very stylized. Less-so than Renaissance.

But with material like this, wouldn't we be able to get a really good idea of how well the 9Gs (or any display) handle solid blacks? I would think that if anything is going to look crushed, it would be evident in these discs.

BTW, Renaissance is only available as am import right now. And neither of these are "kids" films, btw; if memory serves they are both mainly French productions, but both have English subtitles and English soundtrack options. In fact, the English language version of Renaissance is quite good, a rarity for dubs in my opinion. The movie itself isn't the greatest, but it's a good sci-fi film with decent characters and interesting visuals. But I digress....

I have an 880 (similar to the 890) and have found it very capable. The Web-only programming - in the beginning - takes a little bit to get used to and can be frustrating at first until you figure out their GUI but once you get the hang of it the remote's flexibility is outstanding for function.

I have 8 components in my rack and the 880 controls them all....

Good luck on your choice....

Thanks.
I was confused about the URC MX900 because I read that it classifies some components as "watch" and some components as "listen" With my setup, obviously the 6020 is a "watch" component, but to have sound, I have to also turn on my Denon 3808CI AVR and this is a "listen" component I imagine.
Wouldn't this complicate things on the menu of the URC MX900? Am I thinking too much?

Precisely my point. You are (mis)using a $160 illuminance meter (the AEMC CA813), which is meant to measure the degree to which something is illuminated, to measure the amount of light (i.e. black-level luminance) produced by an emissive PDP display.

And you have conveniently sidestepped my original query as to how you managed to record and publish a black level measurement which is below the accuracy limit of the CS-1000 spectroradiometer.



Talk about pot calling the kettle black. You were the one who initially questioned the light meter used by The Perfect Vision, and all I have tried to bring to light (no pun intended) is the fact that the Konica-Minolta LS-100 used by them is far more accurate and superior to your CS-1000 and CA813 when it comes to low-light luminance sensitivity.

Best regards
JohnJohn, take some friendly advise and spend some quality time in the calibration forum. When you are there, ask around about using the AEMC 813. Better yet, here are two well known AVS members that use it:

Tom Huffman
umr

When you finally figure out what the hell you can use the meter for, go purchase a 9G Kuro and report back what reading it gives you.

As far as side stepping your original question....well, I though you had all the answers....why do you of all people need a response from me :)

I do not have any experience with MX900 so I can;t say.

The 880 does not use those types of terms - once the devices are setup the user is then walked through the setup for "activities".

I have one command that turns on the TV and receiver; another that turns on the "main" DVD player (I have 4 in the rack - long story), etc. If for what ever reason the command did not execute what you expected there is a step by step help process. As it turned out, this ended up being a key feature with the Pioneer panel as getting the correct timing for the command to switch inputs (say from HDMI4 to ANT A) is challenging.

so is a 6020 a worthy upgrade from a 5010 or 5080?

General consensus here is, yes. The loss of some key adjustable features are about the only thing that's holding the 9G non-Elites back. Even with the restricted user adjustability, the image that the non-elites can put out still surpasses the 8G, from what I've seen personally. Also, D-Nice reviewed it and pretty much said the same thing. In one of his posts he stated he would choose a 9G non-elite over a 8g non-elite OR 8G Elite. But, that's just two opinions, you should go to your local store and check them out if they have them available and decide for yourself.

General consensus here is, yes. The loss of some key adjustable features are about the only thing that's holding the 9G non-Elites back. Even with the restricted user adjustability, the image that the non-elites can put out still surpasses the 8G, from what I've seen personally. Also, D-Nice reviewed it and pretty much said the same thing. In one of his posts he stated he would choose a 9G non-elite over a 8g non-elite OR 8G Elite. But, that's just two opinions, you should go to your local store and check them out if they have them available and decide for yourself.

D-Nice mentioned in his review that SD looked a bit soft on the 6020...softer than the 8G, apparently. So one question in my mind is whether the Elite 9G is better than the non-Elite 9G on SD material. I know we'll hear from D-Nice on this eventually, but has anyone been able to make a comparison in-store or elsewhere? (I haven't specifically tried my local stores but in the past they haven't been receptive to showing anything other than HD feeds, and I may need to make a decision before D-Nice gets his replacement unit and posts a review.)

this bugs me, too. I would much rather purchase from a forum sponsor than from another internet website or a BM vendor. they are terrific.

alas, our forum dealers have to live by the pioneer policies. this means that if you have a set with 5-7 bad pixels, you are as stuck as your pixels if I understand it correctly. I presume this would be the case at Best Buy, too, except that they have a "no questions asked" exchange policy. Afaik, this does not apply to our forum sponsors.

so, one day I am thinking that I will send Robert or Roman or ... my credit card number; the next day, I am wondering whether I want to just go B&M.

(add to this my indecision about the $150 white-glove charge, the fact that the safe packaging weighs 170lbs and thus is barely movable, and the fact that it is likely to be a space heater [300W?] when operating. (anyone know the 6020 power consumption?).)

/iaw

According to the manual, 524 watts, 0.3 standby.

Well Went To Local Best Buy The Other Day And Best Buy Does Not Do The Pioneer Justice They Had A 6010 In The Broad Showroom Lights And It Was The Dimmest Set On There Wall.. The Samsung 750 Series Was Hanging Next To It And It Was A No Brainer On What Set Looked Much Sharper And Brighter.. Its Tuff To Buy A Pioneer Set Under These Conditions It Makes The Set Look Like **** Literally.. It Even Made Me Scared To Buy A Pioneer...

Well Went To Local Best Buy The Other Day And Best Buy Does Not Do The Pioneer Justice They Had A 6010 In The Broad Showroom Lights And It Was The Dimmest Set On There Wall.. The Samsung 750 Series Was Hanging Next To It And It Was A No Brainer On What Set Looked Much Sharper And Brighter.. Its Tuff To Buy A Pioneer Set Under These Conditions It Makes The Set Look Like **** Literally.. It Even Made Me Scared To Buy A Pioneer...

Context.......understand the bright artificial lights in best Buy....so every set is competing to see who has a brighter more garish Torch mode. If in a home darkened environment this Torch mode is appealing AFTER seeing a properly calibrated Kuro playing a Blu ray in a darkened environment...then buy one of the torch TV's.

The eye reacts to "relatives". So the Pio will look dim in comparison. Again remember the context. I gurantee that if you watch Spiderman 3 (the hoverboard chase scene with lots of movement) in a darkened environment with Kuro next to another set the Kuro will make the other set look silly. The other set could be about any set out there right now. The way LCD's break down with motion is sometimes only readily apparent when seeing how motion should be handled....like on a Kuro. Just my 2 cents

Well Went To Local Best Buy The Other Day And Best Buy Does Not Do The Pioneer Justice They Had A 6010 In The Broad Showroom Lights And It Was The Dimmest Set On There Wall.. The Samsung 750 Series Was Hanging Next To It And It Was A No Brainer On What Set Looked Much Sharper And Brighter.. Its Tuff To Buy A Pioneer Set Under These Conditions It Makes The Set Look Like **** Literally.. It Even Made Me Scared To Buy A Pioneer...


Keep in mind that the 6010 is a good bit dimmer than the 6020, and other panels, but as you stated that's not how it will look in your home. Brighter, is not better.

I should note that "more shadow detail" statement (I pulled out the issue to check this) was with regard to a particular scene in the movie Black Book, where red brickwork in a mansion and a tree in front of it had more detail on the Samsung because (according to S&V) its black was less deep.

Hi prepress,

Wow. As I am not much of one for chick flicks, I confess I have never watched Black Book. In the review, were they watching this in HD or just on a standard DVD? I might actually have to rent the thing just to check this out.

If the reviewers were referring to greater image detail on the 81F in a bright scene, they'll have my full agreement. That definitely is where my 81F, at any rate, really shines. But in darker scenes and in dark regions of mixed scenes, it just can't stand up to an 8G, I think. I had assumed that the discussion about black levels and shadow detail was in reference to shadow detail down at the lower luminances; perhaps my assumption was wrong, though?

Yours,

David

so is a 6020 a worthy upgrade from a 5010 or 5080?

I didn't post this in this thread, but in case this is of any help to you, here are my thoughts as I sold my 6010 last Monday and picked up a 6020 in it's place:


I thought this info might be helpful to someone as I just sold my 6010 Monday night and picked up a 6020 Tuesday night. Unfortunately this time around with my TV upgrade I didn't have my 6010 and 6020 side by side to compare. Instead I have to go by memory. Thankfully it's only days apart so hopefully my memory is fresh enough to be helpful and accurate:).

6020 vs. 6010

Black levels with room lighting

The 6020 has mildly better black levels over the 6010. When you turn on the xx10 series you will see a slight glow whereas the xx20 series has no glow in this lighting.

Black levels in total darkness

My 6020 is ALMOST there. Not quite yet, but not too far off. If I were to guesstimate I'd say the 6020s black levels are about 70-80% of the way between a 6010s black levels and perfection. They are very good but not perfect quite yet.

Black levels in total darkness with a bias light behind the TV

In my setup I have a white rope light that I bought from Lowe's behind my 6020. In this environment, blacks are near perfect. An all black screen is very close to the bezel color. There is a difference, but you have to look for it. If your viewing is in this type of enviroment, then 10G black levels are likely only going to give you a very minor improvement over a 9G.

Brightness

The 6020 is noticable brighter than the 6010. In movie mode it is somewhat brighter, but in other modes it's very noticable. Whites are whiter as well on the 6020 as well. They are not LCD type whites but they have improved.

Shadow Detail

Shadow detail is difficult to give a good analysis on when you can't do a side by side comparison. However, I did have one particular scene on Spiderman where I spent time analyzing this scene as I compared it to my 60XBR1. When I viewed the scene where Mary Jane has been left on top of a bridge with suspending rails (not sure of the term I'm looking for), in a room with the lights the rails were very faint and hard to make out. On the SXRD they were obvious and it was clearly visible that a gap shown behind here was her shadow (since the rails were barely visible on the 6010 it just looked like missing details). In order to bring out those details on the 6010 I had to bump up the brightness to the point where black levels were rising. Obviously not ideal. However, at least in this particular scene the 6020 handled it much better. on movie mode with brightness at -1, the details were still faint with room lighting and better with the lights off. However, with brightness set at 0 or +1, the details came out. And black levels did not rise. So at least in this example, despite what those early pics showed, shadow details have improved.

On a side note, in this scene, Optimum handed it the worst! And I mean bad! No details were to be found period. Every other mode showed more details and to my surprise Dynamic showed far more details than optimum :confused:.

Picture controls

Here is where the 6020 disappoints somewhat. Having had a 6010 and replacing it with a 6020 I have to say I really miss the additional controls on the 6010. For the 8G I was satisfied with a non-elite but this time around I REALLY miss the color temp and DRE adjustments. For me, it's not worth spending an extra $1200 just to get an Elite when all I want out of the 6020 is color temp (which is available on $200 TVs!) and DRE adjustments. Is this too much to ask of Pioneer?!! Movie mode works well, but sometimes I'd like a little more pop out of the picture but outside of Movie mode I'm pretty much stuck with either heavy DRE(black crush), no picture adjustments, or cool temp :rolleyes:. Having said this, I would not want an 8G elite over a 9G non-elite.

My suggestions


If your main viewing is in normal lighting and you feel the 8G has adequate brightness then the 8G may be the one for you if you can get a good price.

If you love black levels and watch in a low lighting environment then a 9G is worth the extra money if you can afford it. The black levels on the 9G are quite impressive. Just a hop and a skip away from black level perfection in total darkness!

If you want a 9G and are planning on keeping your it for at least a few years, you control over your picture, and you can afford the premium, then get an elite.

syswei, don't forget to mention, though it looked softer, the resolution is 1080p for the 9G he reviewed and only 768p for the 8G he was comparing to. That difference alone makes them not really comparable.

T minus 125 hours until break-in DVD completed:D

Attached is a picture of my setup.

I can not wait until Saturday night!

First movie will either be Layer Cake, The Long Good Friday, No Country for Old Men, or The Departed...Tough choice. (Unless watching Cars for 60 minutes counts)

Well Went To Local Best Buy The Other Day And Best Buy Does Not Do The Pioneer Justice They Had A 6010 In The Broad Showroom Lights And It Was The Dimmest Set On There Wall.. The Samsung 750 Series Was Hanging Next To It And It Was A No Brainer On What Set Looked Much Sharper And Brighter.. Its Tuff To Buy A Pioneer Set Under These Conditions It Makes The Set Look Like **** Literally.. It Even Made Me Scared To Buy A Pioneer...

if you get a chance to see a pioneer in a real home theater showroom they look really nice.

Count me as another one of the unfortunate souls to have a cracked panel (6020) on delivery. Of course, I refused delivery. The strange part is the box was in excellent shape. No signs of damage whatsoever, so I suspect this panel might have been damaged at the factory. But to all you future purchasers, DON'T JUST GO BY THE SHAPE OF THE BOX WHEN YOU LOOK FOR DAMAGE. It takes just a few seconds to remove the box and inspect the panel, so have your delivery guys wait.

Count me as another one of the unfortunate souls to have a cracked panel (6020) on delivery. Of course, I refused delivery. The strange part is the box was in excellent shape. No signs of damage whatsoever, so I suspect this panel might have been damaged at the factory. But to all you future purchasers, DON'T JUST GO BY THE SHAPE OF THE BOX WHEN YOU LOOK FOR DAMAGE. It takes just a few seconds to remove the box and inspect the panel, so have your delivery guys wait.

Always do a thorough inspection inside and out. Panels can be sent from the factory cracked, they can be cracked at the warehouse loading them into the truck and they can be cracked during the delivery day. Always take the extra time like mlfarris said above, it will save you alot of headaches later.

if you get a chance to see a pioneer in a real home theater showroom they look really nice.


I'd love to sit down in front of a 6020 in a low light environment and pop in, say, a copy of Blackhawk Down. What I'm stuck with is seeing a 6010 on the wall o' TVs at BB (playing a store loop), or a 150 nicely set up at the Magnolia entrace, soaking in all the overhead store lighting. I stopped in again today and the sales guy says they're not slated to get any 9G floor models until maybe the end of the month. That leaves me with just the Elites at Tweeter (if the 9G's are on display). I'm not keen on making a decision on the 6020 based on viewing a 151, and I'm pretty sure there aren't any other options in my area. Any new owners of a 5/6020 in MD between Balt and DC interested in giving a visitor a demo? :D

I thought my 5 day old 5010 was perfect, but upon closer inspection, I too have a couple of "streaks"....... dirty screen effect if you will. It is VERY minor, and as you stated, there has to be a solid color or no pic on the screen to see it, and then you have to look hard. I can live with it. Glad it is just a couple though, and not all over the screen.

John

I wonder if using the "video swipe" feature would help?

How long does the swipe stay on?

Does anyone know if using this feature shortens the life of the screen?

T minus 125 hours until break-in DVD completed:D

Attached is a picture of my setup.

I can not wait until Saturday night!

First movie will either be Layer Cake, The Long Good Friday, No Country for Old Men, or The Departed...Tough choice. (Unless watching Cars for 60 minutes counts)

Very nice looking setup!

I wonder if using the "video swipe" feature would help?

How long does the swipe stay on?

Does anyone know if using this feature shortens the life of the screen?

If you mean the Video Pattern function, it runs for an hour and then the TV turns off by itself. I can't see how it would shorten the lifespan of the panel, but as I discovered with my older Sony plasma, these kinds of "wash" programs seem to do an excellent job of cleaning up any residual IR after watching a lot of content with black bars, static images, etc. Assuming I keep the 151, I expect that I will run the Video Pattern function once a week or so when I turn the TV off at night, just to keep the panel "clean."

Hi prepress,

Wow. As I am not much of one for chick flicks, I confess I have never watched Black Book. In the review, were they watching this in HD or just on a standard DVD? I might actually have to rent the thing just to check this out.

If the reviewers were referring to greater image detail on the 81F in a bright scene, they'll have my full agreement. That definitely is where my 81F, at any rate, really shines. But in darker scenes and in dark regions of mixed scenes, it just can't stand up to an 8G, I think. I had assumed that the discussion about black levels and shadow detail was in reference to shadow detail down at the lower luminances; perhaps my assumption was wrong, though?

Yours,

David

David, it was a Blu-ray disc. Black Book is a WW II story about Nazi resistance fighters. I haven't seen the movie either, but my take is that red brickwork and a tree would be lighter than a black sedan (night was descending in the scene, by the way) and it's conceivable that the Samsung could do its thing well in those lighter areas. But it apparently couldn't make the car stand out against the background to the degree the Elite did (hence the "low-level detail" comment), nor make the letterbox bars melt into the frame as well. It's interesting that each set apparently brought out something different in the same scene. And, the reviewers said, it seemed that the more challenging the material, the better the plasma was. They also used 2001, Vertical Limit and Happy Gilmore, all either HD DVD or Blu-ray.

There's a post on this thread by xb1032, about ten posts above this one, describing something very similar to what the S&V review talked about with regard to shadow detail. He mentions having to bring up brightness on a 6010 to see some details in a Spider Man scene which caused black levels to rise.

David, it was a Blu-ray disc. Black Book is a WW II story about Nazi resistance fighters. I haven't seen the movie either, but my take is that red brickwork and a tree would be lighter than a black sedan (night was descending in the scene, by the way) and it's conceivable that the Samsung could do its thing well in those lighter areas. But it apparently couldn't make the car stand out against the background to the degree the Elite did (hence the "low-level detail" comment), nor make the letterbox bars melt into the frame as well. It's interesting that each set apparently brought out something different in the same scene. ......

Just for reference, I wouldn't call Black Book a "chick flick," I watched it recently with my 20 yr old son and we both loved it. He wanted to show me that the "other" Paul Verhoeven (i.e., when he makes his European movies) is actually a very different director than the guy who turns out stuff like Showgirls and Robocop. He was right. It's a very interesting WWII movie in that it focuses on the plight of a small group of people, Dutch resistance fighters, that most WWII movies would gloss over. If it's a good reference film for evaluating plasmas, all the better, but it's worth seeing for its own sake. :)

David, it was a Blu-ray disc. Black Book is a WW II story about Nazi resistance fighters. I haven't seen the movie either, but my take is that red brickwork and a tree would be lighter than a black sedan (night was descending in the scene, by the way) and it's conceivable that the Samsung could do its thing well in those lighter areas. But it apparently couldn't make the car stand out against the background to the degree the Elite did (hence the "low-level detail" comment), nor make the letterbox bars melt into the frame as well. It's interesting that each set apparently brought out something different in the same scene. And, the reivewers said, it seemed that the more challenging the material, the better the plasma was. They also used 2001, Vertical Limit and Happy Gilmore, all either HD DVD or Blu-ray.

There's a post on this thread by xb1032, about ten posts above this one, describing something very similar to what the S&V review talked about with regard to shadow detail. He mentions having to bring up brightness on a 6010 to see some details in a Spider Man scene which caused black levels to rise.

Haha! I confused Black Book with The Notebook, which a female friend at the time was all about. I will rent Black Book now and check this out.

It sounds like Sound and Vision, xb1032, and I do all end up converging in our subjective experiences, then. At the higher IREs the locally dimmed LCDs do indeed dominate. One cost of this, though, is loss of clarity at the lower IREs. It makes perfect sense to me, actually, because the local dimming function allowed me to tune my set to a flat 2.22 gamma with a peak brightness of ~52-53 fL. I doubt one of today's plasmas can afford to get that bright (I imagine you already know this), so they'll have to give up something there.

In light of all this, I doubt the 9G sets will have to give up any more shadow detail than the 8Gs did, though, even at higher luminances. From what I understand, the 9Gs are able to get a decent bit brighter at their peak levels while still maintaining black levels that best their predecessors and apparently they do this without losing any of their low-IRE subtlety, so I'm guessing we'll actually actually see superior shadow detail on these latest sets, assuming they're properly calibrated. Pretty impressive, IMO.

Thanks for the clarification, anyway--things are adding up much better in my head now. Plus I totally want to see Black Book.

Yours,

David

so is a 6020 a worthy upgrade from a 5010 or 5080?Unless you're unhappy with your 8G PDPs, why rush to upgrade now when there will be something better next year?

Haha! I confused Black Book with The Notebook, which a female friend at the time was all about. I will rent Black Book now and check this out.

David

Oh god yeah, very different movies! Okay, so David, every time I see your post signature, I wonder what the heck the "rootkit" fiacso was...?

Unless you're unhappy with your 8G PDPs, why rush to upgrade now when there will be something better next year?

Isn't that always true? The 9Gs are the "something better next year" of last year....

Isn't that always true? The 9Gs are the "something better next year" of last year....

But a black level of 0ftl is going to be something else my friend if your viewing environment permits it. That is something that will not be able to be improved on by 11g... 12g... and beyond.

Contrast is so important to me that I say any other improvements... barring a whole new visual medium/screen size is going to be too too too incremental to be excited about.

Oh god yeah, very different movies! Okay, so David, every time I see your post signature, I wonder what the heck the "rootkit" fiacso was...?

Hi progprog,

Oh, dude--this was an absolute scandal that Sony very studiously covered up as fast as their immoral little PR dept. could spin it.

In 2005 an enterprising programmer named Mark Russinovich discovered that the Sony Corporation, in total secrecy, had been putting an auto-installing rootkit (if you're not a tech guy, think "virtually indestructible super-trojan") on a bunch of its commercial music CDs. Sony did this as a strategy for foiling (or rather, attempting to foil) piracy. The rootkit would, without any warning or indication of its presence, silently install on the customer's PC, set up a means of "phoning home" to the Sony Corporation if the PC had any kind of internet connection (even bypassing commercial firewalls, as I understand it), and does seem to transmit specific information about the CD to Sony BMG. It is unclear what other data collection functions occur(red), and while Sony BMG violently denied and continues to deny that it collects any personal info about the user, their track record with the truth is simply abysmal in this entire affair. It was a wholesale violation of paying customers' privacy and computer security (very nasty hackers had exploits of the Sony rootkit up and working in the wild to steal people's personal info, etc. within two weeks). Numerous customers had their PCs permanently damaged by the rootkit and had to reformat their drives in order to get rid of it. Also, even after the whole thing blew up, Sony BMG did everything it could to prevent infected PC owners from effectively uninstalling the rootkit. The uninstaller they created was a complete nightmare that actually generated more security problems than it repaired, plus it (again secretly) somehow saw fit to install several interesting new bits of commercial software that Sony apparently thought enraged customers were just gonna love.:mad:

When the story first broke, Sony just flat out lied about the whole thing, saying there were no rootkits on their CDs (this was before people even knew what rootkits were). After Russinovich just plain proved that Sony was lying, they then admitted that they did put auto-installing rootkits on some of their music CDs, but argued (like Dave Barry, I absolutely AM NOT making this up) that since consumers didn't even know what rootkits were, they had no cause to worry about them, so everyone should just shut up (seriously--this is what they said).

Well, that little argument of theirs didn't last too long, so after another month or so, with the mounting threat of lawsuits from several states in the US, Sony mumbled an almost uniformly unapologetic [paraphrasing] "Sorry about that--here's a pittance of $$ for your lost data and compromised PC security, and btw, up yours Mr(s). Consumer."

That they so effectively managed to hush the whole thing up so soon afterward was, in my opinion, a breathtaking example of corporate media control. Within six months, most non-techies couldn't even remember what I was talking about.

What pisses me off more than anything else about this is the basic level of respect for individual human dignity and autonomy that Sony manifestly neither has nor cares to acquire. We are not even people to them. We are mindless, faceless revenue streams and nothing more. I will never forgive them for that.

Yours (sorry, man--you asked),

David

But a black level of 0ftl is going to be something else my friend if your viewing environment permits it. That is something that will not be able to be improved on by 11g... 12g... and beyond.

Contrast is so important to me that I say any other improvements... barring a whole new visual medium/screen size is going to be too too too incremental to be excited about.

QFT!

It's great to see you're still around, Johnny.

-David

But a black level of 0ftl is going to be something else my friend if your viewing environment permits it. That is something that will not be able to be improved on by 11g... 12g... and beyond.

Contrast is so important to me that I say any other improvements... barring a whole new visual medium/screen size is going to be too too too incremental to be excited about.

And this is why I'm not that interested in 10G or any other G that comes out next year. The 8G sets are very good; the 9G sets are better in some key areas (though I still dislike the loss of connectivity for older equipment). If I got either one I'd be pretty well set. There may be a point of diminishing returns not far down the road, and I'm not going to obsess over incremental improvements that are too subtle to matter (or see). This is about buying a TV eventually and enjoying it, not turning the process into work and worry over minutae. I fell into that rather expensive trap with audio, and do not want to repeat the mistake.

I've had my CRT for 16 years and would figure to have my next TV at least that long, longer if the rated hours (60,000 to half-brightness, I believe) are accurate, since I don't watch as much as I used to. In fact, barring theft or damage, my next TV could well be my last.

According to the manual, 524 watts, .03 standby.

I hope 524 watts is maximum power consumption, not average power consumption. At 524 watts, it qualifies as a space heater for winter. is there a figure for average power consumption?

/iaw

But a black level of 0ftl is going to be something else my friend if your viewing environment permits it. That is something that will not be able to be improved on by 11g... 12g... and beyond.

Contrast is so important to me that I say any other improvements... barring a whole new visual medium/screen size is going to be too too too incremental to be excited about.

Once we hit the "0" black level, they'll still have several things to work on. One for instance is to get it as bright as an LCD flat screen while keeping the "0" black level .

Once we hit the "0" black level, they'll still have several things to work on. One for instance is to get it as bright as an LCD flat screen while keeping the "0" black level .
And maybe a buzzless version...? There's something they could turn their attention to.

QFT!

It's great to see you're still around, Johnny.

-David

Right back at ya Dave.

And this is why I'm not that interested in 10G or any other G that comes out next year. The 8G sets are very good; the 9G sets are better in some key areas (though I still dislike the loss of connectivity for older equipment). If I got either one I'd be pretty well set. There may be a point of diminishing returns not far down the road, and I'm not going to obsess over incremental improvements that are too subtle to matter (or see). This is about buying a TV eventually and enjoying it, not turning the process into work and worry over minutae. I fell into that rather expensive trap with audio, and do not want to repeat the mistake.

I've had my CRT for 16 years and would figure to have my next TV at least that long, longer if the rated hours (60,000 to half-brightness, I believe) are accurate, since I don't watch as much as I used to. In fact, barring theft or damage, my next TV could well be my last.

:) I hope so my friend. I agree its getting close.

Once we hit the "0" black level, they'll still have several things to work on. One for instance is to get it as bright as an LCD flat screen while keeping the "0" black level .

I guess. For me its not too important. Plasmas are already bright enough for me. To get any benefit of 0ftl black.. you need a really dark room. I don't know many people looking for LCD brightness in that area of viewing. I've returned LCDs because they're need to be bright to look any good in fact.

But for those people sure... I agree. You'll have a 1,000,000:1 ANSI contrast ratio.

Although from what I hear, Extreme Contrast is dealing w/ both black/white spectrums anyway.

I wonder if using the "video swipe" feature would help?

How long does the swipe stay on?

Does anyone know if using this feature shortens the life of the screen?

I ran the swipe once. It stays on until you turn the plasma off. Did not help with streaking.

John

I'm curious, I've heard streaking come up several times and it has me a bit worried. Is this a prominent issue for the Pioneers? My first set didn't have streaks, I don't think. I've got a replacement set coming tomorrow and I'm hoping I don't have streaks now...

I ran the swipe once. It stays on until you turn the plasma off. Did not help with streaking.

John

How long did you leave it on for?

Someone else mentioned that it stays on for an hour then shuts itself down.

I've got the 151HD, and I'm here to tell you, I won't be able to stand waiting for 150 hours to actually watch anything.

I'm going to cheat.

;)

I ran the swipe once. It stays on until you turn the plasma off. Did not help with streaking.

John

How long did you leave it on for?

Someone else mentioned that it stays on for an hour then shuts itself down.

Unless we're talking about two different things. I thought you meant the feature called "Video Pattern," as I don't know of anything specifically called "video swipe." The Video Pattern does indeed run for one hour then shut off the TV by itself. Obviously, you could turn the TV off before the hour was up if you wanted.

Unless we're talking about two different things. I thought you meant the feature called "Video Pattern," as I don't know of anything specifically called "video swipe." The Video Pattern does indeed run for one hour then shut off the TV by itself. Obviously, you could turn the TV off before the hour was up if you wanted.


I'm pretty sure that's probably what I'm talking about since I don't know what it's called. I've never tried it.

From what I read is that the screen is black then there is a white bar that "sweep" up and down or across till it either shuts off after an hour or till someone shuts it off.

I have a screen that looks "dirty". If I put up a solid color no matter what the color is, I can see light and dark areas around the screen. Sometimes the light areas tend to be long and or short lines or "streaks" and the darker areas tend to surround the lighter areas.

I'm not sure at this point what part of the "Dirty Screen" look is "normal". Maybe the darker areas are the "normal" areas. From D-Nice when he was testing has a silky smooth look or something like that. In my case I don't see that effect. What I see is different light and darker shades of patterns across the screen.

What's starting to bug me is I can see it with normal video material. If there's a lot of sky or white and the camera pans, I can see the patterns that don't move with the panning of the video.

How long did you leave it on for?

Someone else mentioned that it stays on for an hour then shuts itself down.

About 5 minutes, removed the IR that occured by accident when I started a DVD, about 20 hours into breaking in the set. A black screen with GIANT wording that was in white and said "WARNING" lol, you know those copyright warnings. Well the warning wasn't a 2 or 3 second thing on the DVD, seemed like it stayed on the screen for an eternity. I was in the Kitchen, saw it, and when it didn't go away quickly ran to the remote and fast forwarded past it...... too late, image retention, but the "swipe" (technical name in the menu "video pattern") removed it in only a few passes. I call it "swipe" because the white bar swipes the screen from left to right :-)

john

What's starting to bug me is I can see it with normal video material. If there's a lot of sky or white and the camera pans, I can see the patterns that don't move with the panning of the video.

Hi Thebarnman,

This is disconcerting information. I was getting my heart nearly set on a 111, but unfortunately I have become very sensitive to just the kind of screen inconsistencies you're reporting. If this flaw is at all common, I will have to hold off and wait for the 10Gs in the hope that Pioneer will improve this QC aspect by then.

You are planning to replace your current set, then? If so, please do let everyone know how that one goes, especially after the break-in period. That could help to give me a rough feel for the frequency with which one can expect to encounter this flaw.

Sympathetically yours,

David

Hi Thebarnman,

This is disconcerting information. I was getting my heart nearly set on a 111, but unfortunately I have become very sensitive to just the kind of screen inconsistencies you're reporting. If this flaw is at all common, I will have to hold off and wait for the 10Gs in the hope that Pioneer will improve this QC aspect by then.

You are planning to replace your current set, then? If so, please do let everyone know how that one goes, especially after the break-in period. That could help to give me a rough feel for the frequency with which one can expect to encounter this flaw.

Sympathetically yours,

David

Hi David,

Here's what I've done..

And I really did not want to do this, is I called the place where I bought it (with a 30 day return policy) to have it exchanged. I figure I'll be having this set for some years and it's best to take care of it now rather than later.

Their next shipment of the 151FD are all accounted for and I guess that would be mid to late July. So I might be waiting for the replacement till mid to late August.

I'm fine with that since I can still enjoy my current 151FD till then. And at least that will be easier to wait for then if I did not have a 151FD!

I don't know if the "flaw" is common or not, or if it is indeed a "flaw", however I do know that D-Nice reported that his model was silky smooth or some such description. Mine I can see with regular video material, though you have to know what your looking for. At the same time, I have noticed it's distracting even if I'm not looking for it, however the conditions have to be right, such as a large area of one color.

Right now I'm going to try one or two things to see if I can get rid of this "Dirty Screen" look while I'm in the process of waiting. If so, I won't have to swap it out. Currently I'm running the video swipe pattern that comes built into the 151FD. It seems to continue to run till the power of the display is turned off. I'm not sure how long to run it for or at what settings.

One thing I have noticed is right in the perfect center of the screen, there's a horizontal thin white line that is easily seen all the way across while running this "swipe pattern". This may or may not be part of the design of the screen itself. I don't know as it's the first time I ever noticed it.

I don't know if the "flaw" is common or not, or if it is indeed a "flaw", however I do know that D-Nice reported that his model was silky smooth or some such description. Mine I can see with regular video material, though you have to know what your looking for. At the same time, I have noticed it's distracting even if I'm not looking for it, however the conditions have to be right, such as a large area of one color.

......

One thing I have noticed is right in the perfect center of the screen, there's a horizontal thin white line that is easily seen all the way across while running this "swipe pattern". This may or may not be part of the design of the screen itself. I don't know as it's the first time I ever noticed it.

Whoa, that doesn't sound good. I've used the Video Pattern a few times, and it has never had that horizontal line. I wouldn't run it anymore if I were you, as that line might eventually leave some IR.

As for the other problem, it's not normal, especially if it bothers you. The 151 I have, which happens to be a buzzer :(, has a very even brightness and color dispersal. Nothing like what you're describing. Between the weird horizontal line and the "dirty screen," I definitely think it sounds like you've got a flawed unit, and I think you'll be glad you exchanged it.

so is a 6020 a worthy upgrade from a 5010 or 5080?

just having 44% more screen area will be a HUGE upgrade.

just having 44% more screen area will be a HUGE upgrade.
One caveat would be if you watch much SD cable television. Without a CableCard slot, you're forced to use a cablebox. I find that the picture for regular channels, like CNN and Encore movies, doesn't look nearly as good on the 151 as on my Sony SXRD with CableCard. Whether this is the external tuner or not is kind of moot, since it's the only choice I have for watching those channels on the Kuro. Now, in my case, I watch less and less of that all the time, so it's not that big a deal for me. I make the point just because these are the kinds of bad pictures that are exacerbated as the screen gets bigger.

On the other hand, if you're talking movies, get the big one! The picture is outstanding.

Could some one please tell me (or better yet, provide a link) to D-Nice's 5020 review? And why is this site so difficult to navigate and why does no one who's bought the new Pioneer 9gs answer the most pertinent question which is how does the picture quality compare to the 8G? Not just black level, but also brightness, greens and reds...

Could some one please tell me (or better yet, provide a link) to D-Nice's 5020 review? And why is this site so difficult to navigate and why does no one who's bought the new Pioneer 9gs answer the most pertinent question which is how does the picture quality compare to the 8G? Not just black level, but also brightness, greens and reds...

DNice's review of the 6020 is in the 2nd post of the 1st page of this thread.

This site is difficult to navigate around because it is designed like a casino - the management are trying to confuse you so you spend more time wandering around.

The general comments about non-elite 9G vs 8G PQ are that the 9Gs have noticeably improved blacks and contrast, while the color points on the 8G Elite are more accurate. However, DNice seemed to favor the non-elite 9G overall, even over an 8G Elite. IMO, the improved contrast gives the 9G's much more pop than the previous gen. The 9G's also render a particularly 3D image taking the depth of the kuro image to a new level. The 9G Elite has not been professionally reviewed or evaluated by DNice yet, but the PQ is amazing and I suspect it will be superior in every category.

This site is difficult to navigate around because it is designed like a casino - the management are trying to confuse you so you spend more time wandering around.

And doing a fine job of it I might add. :D

I would have burned it but my soon to be 3 year old son decided to remove a part from my Dell DVD drive, and it is inoperable at present.

The good news is the Break-in DVD just arrived in the mail. I was starting to go stir crazy watching "Cars" :D

T minus 150 hours and counting.....

Now I just need a Universal remote. I have 5 remotes right now. The biggest pain is the Directv remote changes the stations, while the Denon 3808CI remote must be used to change the volume.

Robert carries the UCR MX900I remote. Was almost deadset on the Harmony 890. Anybody use either one??


Were did you order the Break-in DVD from??

Were did you order the Break-in DVD from??

http://www.eaprogramming.com/

http://www.eaprogramming.com/

Thanks! Just ordered it.

I'm not sure at this point what part of the "Dirty Screen" look is "normal". Maybe the darker areas are the "normal" areas. From D-Nice when he was testing has a silky smooth look or something like that. In my case I don't see that effect. What I see is different light and darker shades of patterns across the screen.


I never seen the streaks in person but from alot of screenshots their seems to be lines going down the middle of alot of them.. Some say it's 'moire' effect but i don't know what to believe. Also try PC mode to see if it improves any.

Can anyone please tell me what my PS3 settings should be on with the 5020? RGB:full or limited? cross color reduction filter: on or off? cinema conversion: automatic or video? help is apprecaited. thanks

I hope 524 watts is maximum power consumption, not average power consumption. At 524 watts, it qualifies as a space heater for winter. is there a figure for average power consumption?

/iaw

I haven't seen one. It may be you would have to measure with the appropriate tools. For comparison, the 5020 is 436 watts, 0.2 standby.

HEY guys is buying from Amazon.com safer than lets say one of the forum sponsers like value electronics or invision... i heard amazon.com provides better return policy.. the price on the 5020 is like 75 bucks more with amazon.. what are the pros and cons i want to be able to return my tv if it has stuck pixels or anythign wrong with it if it has any certain problems..

HEY guys is buying from Amazon.com safer than lets say one of the forum sponsers like value electronics or invision... i heard amazon.com provides better return policy.. the price on the 5020 is like 75 bucks more with amazon.. what are the pros and cons i want to be able to return my tv if it has stuck pixels or anythign wrong with it if it has any certain problems..Robert @ Value Electronics has far better customer service and support than you would EVER find @ Amazon.

Can anyone please tell me what my PS3 settings should be on with the 5020?On the PS3 set the RGB settings and to "Full" and the super-white setting to "On."

On the PS3 set the RGB settings and to "Full" and the super-white setting to "On."
Incorrect for BD sources. RGB should be set to LIMITED and superwhite set to On.

HEY guys is buying from Amazon.com safer than lets say one of the forum sponsers like value electronics or invision... i heard amazon.com provides better return policy.. the price on the 5020 is like 75 bucks more with amazon.. what are the pros and cons i want to be able to return my tv if it has stuck pixels or anythign wrong with it if it has any certain problems..

I thought somebody said that the 5020s from Amazon came from 6th Avenue Electronics in NY. and the 6020s directly from Amazon. Please correct me if I am wrong.

There are Amazon defenders here but I wouldn't be one of them for a purchase of this kind.

HEY guys is buying from Amazon.com safer than lets say one of the forum sponsers like value electronics or invision... i heard amazon.com provides better return policy.. the price on the 5020 is like 75 bucks more with amazon.. what are the pros and cons i want to be able to return my tv if it has stuck pixels or anythign wrong with it if it has any certain problems..

I ordered my Sammy 4665f from Amazon, but chose to order my 111 from Robert at VE. The return policy with Amazon is great...you have a problem within 30 days or the price goes down, they'll replace the set or refund the difference without any question. I would have no qualms ordering from Amazon, but I decided that the personal service I'd receive from Robert was the way to go. At first I was considering the 5020, but decided to go with the 111 for space reasons which required going through Robert anyway.

Plus, all Amazon TV orders use free white glove delivery...and the local warehouse is 20 mins from my house...

Incorrect for BD sources. RGB should be set to LIMITED and superwhite set to On.What about games and DVDs. The black levels seem incomplete on my 5010 on limited on DVDs

What about games and DVDs. The black levels seem incomplete on my 5010 on limited on DVDsI don't know about games however DVDs and BDs are mastered and encoded to Studio RGB (16-235) not PC RGB(0-255).

I don't know about games however DVDs and BDs are mastered and encoded to Studio RGB (16-235) not PC RGB(0-255).Thanks again. But again, why would that not limit black levels??

Thanks again. But again, why would that not limit black levels??
It's not limiting black levels. It correctly mapping the black setup. If something is encoded in Studio RGB, displaying it in PC RGB would distort the grayscale.

It's not limiting black levels. It correctly mapping the black setup. If something is encoded in Studio RGB, displaying it in PC RGB would distort the grayscale.Ok thanks. I was just wondering because I'm relatively unimpressed with my 5010s black levels. Just can't wait until the 151 comes in tomorrow.

Well after having a nearly perfect 111 for about 4 days I get up yesterday morning and after running the break in DVD through the night like I have been I turn it off to watch Sportcenter and I notice a stuck pixel at the far left side of the screen:eek::mad:

I couldnt believe it! It wasnt there the first couple days and some how one pops up. How does that even happen? I thought normally if you have a stuck pixel it shows up right away but i guess not. I threw the break in DVD to see what colors it shows up on and it seems to be the really blue screen and the reds. UUUUGH!!! When watching normal programming its not always there, I guess becuase it only shows up on certain colors, but its definetly visible even from 12ft away when in particular espn has the black bars with the espn logo on either side it shows up on the grey letter P in espn on the left side where its located.

I reeeeally hope the pixel reactivates or becomes unstuck. Ive tried massaging it a few times with the micro fiber cloth the panel came with and it didnt really do anything but cuase it to flicker a few times. I do notice it flickers on its own from time to time but not sure if thats a good sign or not. If anybody has some helpful advice I would really appreciate it. I really DON'T want to return this set since it is basically buzz free, unlike my previous ELITES, and possibly have to wait for another 111 since there in limited supply and potentially get one with more stuck or even dead pixels.

I thought somebody said that the 5020s from Amazon came from 6th Avenue Electronics in NY. and the 6020s directly from Amazon. Please correct me if I am wrong.

There are Amazon defenders here but I wouldn't be one of them for a purchase of this kind.

Items on Amazon.com come from Amazon.com unless it's indicated on the product page. For those products, it will say "ships from xxx" or "ships from and sold by xxx" in the middle near the MSRP price and near the "add to shopping cart" button. Availability changes, so check the page when ordering to see where it's actually coming from.

It's not limiting black levels. It correctly mapping the black setup. If something is encoded in Studio RGB, displaying it in PC RGB would distort the grayscale.

Learn something new every day. I'm pretty sure at one time the suggested settings were Full and YPb/Cb Pr/Cr. I guess I'll have to change my PS3 settings.

Ok thanks. I was just wondering because I'm relatively unimpressed with my 5010s black levels. Just can't wait until the 151 comes in tomorrow.

Just curious, but what made you decide to get a 5010 and a 151 instead of a 5020 and a 151?

I haven't seen one. It may be one would have to measure with the appropriate tools. For comparison, the 5020 is 436 watts, 0.2 standby.

For the 5080, zdnet measured 331W in default mode and 229W in calibrated mode. The spec sheet says 371W.

So, I hope that the actual power consumption in movie mode is closer to 2/3 of the quoted 524W power consumption on the 6020---hopefully, 350W.

D-Nice---how about trying a Kill-A-Watt meter on your next review to see how much juice they really use?

regards,

/iaw

For the 5080, zdnet measured 331W in default mode and 229W in calibrated mode. The spec sheet says 371W.

So, I hope that the actual power consumption in movie mode is closer to 2/3 of the quoted 524W power consumption on the 6020---hopefully, 350W.

D-Nice---how about trying a Kill-A-Watt meter on your next review to see how much juice they really use?

regards,

/iaw

I'll be able to throw a kill-a-watt on my 6020 tonight.

Incorrect for BD sources. RGB should be set to LIMITED and superwhite set to On.

I thought BD output on the PS3 should be set to XYC?

Well after having a nearly perfect 111 for about 4 days I get up yesterday morning and after running the break in DVD through the night like I have been I turn it off to watch Sportcenter and I notice a stuck pixel at the far left side of the screen:eek::mad:

I couldnt believe it! It wasnt there the first couple days and some how one pops up. How does that even happen? I thought normally if you have a stuck pixel it shows up right away but i guess not. I threw the break in DVD to see what colors it shows up on and it seems to be the really blue screen and the reds. UUUUGH!!! When watching normal programming its not always there, I guess becuase it only shows up on certain colors, but its definetly visible even from 12ft away when in particular espn has the black bars with the espn logo on either side it shows up on the grey letter P in espn on the left side where its located.

I reeeeally hope the pixel reactivates or becomes unstuck. Ive tried massaging it a few times with the micro fiber cloth the panel came with and it didnt really do anything but cuase it to flicker a few times. I do notice it flickers on its own from time to time but not sure if thats a good sign or not. If anybody has some helpful advice I would really appreciate it. I really DON'T want to return this set since it is basically buzz free, unlike my previous ELITES, and possibly have to wait for another 111 since there in limited supply and potentially get one with more stuck or even dead pixels.

My 1 stuck pixel became unstuck after running the break-in dvd for 30 hrs.
Maybe I am too easy going but I never thought of even considering returning the set even if it did not become unstuck. I mean it's one pixel. No big deal.

My 1 stuck pixel became unstuck after running the break-in dvd for 30 hrs.
Maybe I am too easy going but I never thought of even considering returning the set even if it did not become unstuck. I mean it's one pixel. No big deal.

Here is another example for me :)

thanks for the info D-Nice, I will set my PS3 to Limited when I get home, I also have super white already on. Also, I have YPb/Cb Pr/Cr on as well. Do you know what cross color reduction filter does? should it be on or off? lastly, what does the Cinema Conversion feature do on the ps3? should it be on Auto or Video? thanks

Roman,

I also have one stuck pixel (actually, it's the green subpixel of a pixel), and I too wouldn't return it for that.

I have some other problems (uniformity in bright scenes) that are leading me to return my 5010 (to a b&m).

-R

Has anyone connected a stb to a 9G via DVI? If so, is grayscale accurate? 8Gs would auto-recognize.

Thanks,
-R

Roman,

I also have one stuck pixel (actually, it's the green subpixel of a pixel), and I too wouldn't return it for that.

I have some other problems (uniformity in bright scenes) that are leading me to return my 5010 (to a b&m).

-R

If you have the opportunity to return it then its worth a shot.

My 1 stuck pixel became unstuck after running the break-in dvd for 30 hrs.
Maybe I am too easy going but I never thought of even considering returning the set even if it did not become unstuck. I mean it's one pixel. No big deal.

Thats GREAT and promising news! My stuck pixel appeared about 75 hours into break in for some reason but hopefully I have the same result as you did after several more hours and it'll dissapear. The more I realize how I have to look for it to see it the more I think I would not return it either.

Just curious, but what made you decide to get a 5010 and a 151 instead of a 5020 and a 151?Availability (and a decent deal on the 5010). In the new house, I didn't even have a TV.... I needed one right then (that was on saturday the 28th). I didn't want to wait until thursday (the third of july) to get both TVs, so I got the 5010 right then and I'm getting the 151 tomorrow.

quick question, I noticed each time I put in a movie I check which display mode is being shown and it always goes to Auto. I always end up switching this to Dot By Dot. does anyone know why this might be happening? help is apprecaited. thanks

I also have one stuck pixel (actually, it's the green subpixel of a pixel), and I too wouldn't return it for that.
I have some other problems (uniformity in bright scenes) that are leading me to return my 5010 (to a b&m).
-R
Pioneer service technicians have a program they can run thru the "service menu" to fix dead and stuck pixels. Something they will not allow you to do personally, however call 1-800-PIONEER and set up a service apointment.

I noticed each time I put in a movie I check which display mode is being shown and it always goes to Auto. I always end up switching this to Dot By Dot. does anyone know why this might be happening?

Setup->Option->Auto Size

Set it to "Off".

Then it will stay on your chosen setting.

I don't know about games however DVDs and BDs are mastered and encoded to Studio RGB (16-235) not PC RGB(0-255).

Most games should be at video levels (16-235) as well since the developers understand that the PS3 is being used on televisions and not for the most part on PC based monitors. I believe I recall that King Kong (360) was thought to be using PC levels causing users to complain about it being too dark and difficulty seeing in dark areas (crush). IIRC MS did add PC level support for using the VGA connection later.

Wrt to the PS3 though too bad Sony used technical terms "FULL" and "Limited" in menus when most users naturally assume that "FULL" must be better while in fact "Limited" will usually be the better choice, unless of course you have a display set to expect 0-255.

Some have reported that the PS3 XMB may look better for them on Full however but content best on Limited. I'd go with content. ;)

Pioneer service technicians have a program they can run thru the "service menu" to fix dead and stuck pixels. Something they will not allow you to do personally, however call 1-800-PIONEER and set up a service apointment.

:confused: There seems to be a broad concensus, including amongst other dealer-posters, that dead pixels aren't fixable. You have seen this service menu program literally fix dead pixels?

Well after having a nearly perfect 111 for about 4 days I get up yesterday morning and after running the break in DVD through the night like I have been I turn it off to watch Sportcenter and I notice a stuck pixel at the far left side of the screen:eek::mad:

I couldnt believe it! It wasnt there the first couple days and some how one pops up. How does that even happen? I thought normally if you have a stuck pixel it shows up right away but i guess not..........

luvhatesony, sorry you having trouble after it was delivered pixel perfect.

yes, it was dicussed and just part of the reason the manufacturers do not offer pixel perfect warranties. it left the assmebly plant perfect and then went stuck/dead.

keep running the breakin dvd or pixar movies like roman suggest and hopefully it will work out.

John, take some friendly advise and spend some quality time in the calibration forum. When you are there, ask around about using the AEMC 813. Better yet, here are two well known AVS members that use it:

Tom Huffman
umr

When you finally figure out what the hell you can use the meter for, go purchase a 9G Kuro and report back what reading it gives you.

As far as side stepping your original question....well, I though you had all the answers....why do you of all people need a response from me :)

Believe me, I have trawled and searched through the calibration forum. The discussion surrounding the use of an illuminance meter to measure luminance is largely applied to projectors where screen gain and distance can be factored into the equation. As far as I'm aware, you're the only respected forum contributor who uses the CA813 to measure black level on a emissive display panel.

Some time ago I posted this question (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14011674), asking about how to accurately measure black-level luminance on a flat screen television using an illuminance meter, and not even TomHuffman could give a satisfactory answer.

Best regards
John

thanks chmilar, appreciate it.

My 1 stuck pixel became unstuck after running the break-in dvd for 30 hrs.
Maybe I am too easy going but I never thought of even considering returning the set even if it did not become unstuck. I mean it's one pixel. No big deal.

Good to hear that the break-in DVD raised that pixel from the dead. :cool:

Here is another example for me :)

My Uncle, upon buying a new car, had a ritual. he would take the key, and discreetly scratch the key into the car's paint where it would not be noticeable.

He always told me it was an easy way to get the first "ding" out of the way immediately. Then he wasn't uptight about keeping the car perfect, because inevitably something happens.

For people to return the TV over a pixel or two, is absolutely anal.

My Uncle, upon buying a new car, had a ritual. he would take the key, and discreetly scratch the key into the car's paint where it would not be noticeable.

He always told me it was an easy way to get the first "ding" out of the way immediately. Then he wasn't uptight about keeping the car perfect, because inevitably something happens.

For people to return the TV over a pixel or two, is absolutely anal.

:confused:

Anal would be keying your own new car.:eek::eek::eek: That inevitable thing that happens is called "rust." ;)

Availability (and a decent deal on the 5010). In the new house, I didn't even have a TV.... I needed one right then (that was on saturday the 28th). I didn't want to wait until thursday (the third of july) to get both TVs, so I got the 5010 right then and I'm getting the 151 tomorrow.

Congratulations! You'll have to do some side by side comparisons and let us know how they compare in shadow details, blacks, whites, etc it at all possible. And pics too. I'm a little disappointed I didn't have my 6010 side by side with my 6020 since I sold the 6010 first. Oh well.

Does anyone know what lumen tech the 9Gs are? Nambit says they are not 5 lumen tech (but I thought they were).

...
I have a screen that looks "dirty". If I put up a solid color no matter what the color is, I can see light and dark areas around the screen. Sometimes the light areas tend to be long and or short lines or "streaks" and the darker areas tend to surround the lighter areas.

I'm not sure at this point what part of the look is "normal". Maybe the darker areas are the "normal" areas. From D-Nice when he was testing has a silky smooth look or something like that. In my case I don't see that effect. What I see is different light and darker shades of patterns across the screen.

What's starting to bug me is I can see it with normal video material. If there's a lot of sky or white and the camera pans, I can see the patterns that don't move with the panning of the video.

Same here! :confused:
While running the break-in images from an USB Stick I could easily see this effect. Especially on color red.
Break-In was running for about 50 hours so far on my non-elite 9G Kuro.
Fortunately I did not see the "dirt" with normal video.

Who's the next one?

I plugged my 6020 into a kill-a-watt. During normal TV watching, it fluctuated from around 250 to 500 watts. If I were to guess an average, it would probably be around 380.

Same here! :confused:
While running the break-in images from an USB Stick I could easily see this effect. Especially on color red.
Break-In was running for about 50 hours so far on my non-elite 9G Kuro.
Fortunately I did not see the "dirt" with normal video.

Who's the next one?

I see that too on my 6020.

Believe me, I have trawled and searched through the calibration forum. The discussion surrounding the use of an illuminance meter to measure luminance is largely applied to projectors where screen gain and distance can be factored into the equation. As far as I'm aware, you're the only respected forum contributor who uses the CA813 to measure black level on a emissive display panel.You are incorrect sir. I gave you two references because they actually use it on emissive displays.

Some time ago I posted this question (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14011674), asking about how to accurately measure black-level luminance on a flat screen television using an illuminance meter, and not even TomHuffman could give a satisfactory answer.

Best regards
JohnI'm well aware of that thread and I fully understand why Michael TVL, TomHuffman and the others stopped trying to assist you in that thread. Hopefully you will figure out why too :o

As the others have done, I'm now going to bow out of this discussion with with you. If you have any other topics, I'll be happy to attempt to find a resolution for you.

I plugged my 6020 into a kill-a-watt. During normal TV watching, it fluctuated from around 250 to 500 watts. If I were to guess an average, it would probably be around 380.

Suggesting that manufacturers' figures refer to maximum consumption. I do remember seeing one manual (I forget what set, I think a Panasonic) state that the power figure was a maximum.

I'm curious after hearing so much comment on what to expect for delivery service. Some say the panel is dropped off and there's also information on "white glove" service which includes complete set up of the panel and insuring that it is in working condition.
I recently saw the following article:


TV Market Gets Tough For Pioneer
By Branko Miletic | Friday | 27/06/2008


Pioneer has pulled the plug on its free delivery and installation service of its 50 and 60 inch plasma TVs, saying the toughening market and economic conditions were behind the move.

The electronics company, which over the past couple of years used the free service as a selling and differentiation tool, at the same time also managed to raise the ire of both retailers and AV installers alike, when it claimed one reason behind this free service was because installers and retailers were incorrectly installing and setting up its large screen TV's, has now promptly axed this value-added service.

According to a press release from Pioneer, the company claimed that due to "…a very competitive flat panel market…the company has made a decision to cease the current market offer of free installation and delivery with every Pioneer plasma TV, effective September 1st 2008.

Furthermore, the company says that its "…offer of free installation and delivery was launched into the market five years ago with great success".

In its press statement, Pioneer also seems to infer that due to the economy and new technology, getting the installation right is no longer such an issue for TV buyers.

"Under current market conditions, ‘future-readiness' of the product, energy efficiency and product reliability have substituted both installation and delivery as primary purchase concerns of today's consumer", the company says


-My question is, can we expect this "free installation" delivery service from all Pioneer dealers between now and Sept. 08?What does this Pioneer AU decision have to do with the North American market? Pioneer NA never had a "free installation and delivery" agreement with NA distributors and dealers.

You will have to contact Pioneer AU if you live in Australia and want an answer to your question.

I was at BB/Magnolia yesterday, and saw they had a 110 and a 111 on the same wall, with a Panasonic 850 between them. There was a program on about Ferraris, and during a scene of a driveway with a nice blue sky, dark patches with deep blue halos appeared in all corners on both the Elites, but not on any other sets and only in that scene (which was shown several times). Has anyone seen anything like that before?

By the way, both Elites had blacks that were better than the 850 in the middle, though it took an interview segment against a solid black background for this to be obvious. Otherwise, all three looked fairly close. And in comparison, the 110's background looked somewhat bluish. Yes, they're all out-of-the-box, but the difference was still obvious.

And in comparison, the 110's background looked somewhat bluish.Perhaps the color temp option was set to "cool?"

Hey,

Just thought I would give a heads up to those who may not know about visa extending warranties.

I wasn't able to use my Amex, which doubles mfr warranties, but I found out visa has a similar program.

Check it out here;
http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/bft_warranty_mgr_eclaims.html

I'm going to duplicate this post somewhere here at AVS, for those unfortunate people not getting a Pioneer! :D

Hope this helps someone!

OK 2 IMPORTANT QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL... I am going to buy a 5020 from Amazon.com because there return policy are of that of a retail store.. Now My question is I have a a wall mount for my older panasonic plasma that was 42 inches would that fit the new 5020 and should i purchase a extended warranty and if so from whom...

the more important question would be whether the mount can handle the weight of the 50".

OK 2 IMPORTANT QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL... I am going to buy a 5020 from Amazon.com because there return policy are of that of a retail store.. Now My question is I have a a wall mount for my older panasonic plasma that was 42 inches would that fit the new 5020 and should i purchase a extended warranty and if so from whom...Do you know the model of your wall mount? If it is a universal mount, do you still have the package of bolts that came with it?

Extended warranty.......never got one for a plasma.

OK 2 IMPORTANT QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL... I am going to buy a 5020 from Amazon.com because there return policy are of that of a retail store.. Now My question is I have a a wall mount for my older panasonic plasma that was 42 inches would that fit the new 5020 and should i purchase a extended warranty and if so from whom...

You need to determine what the maximum vertical gap on your side mounts. When I upgraded from a Panasonic 58PX600U I was unable to use the Peerless mount that I had purchased from Costco because Pioneer spaced their mounting holes 2" further apart than the Panasonic.

its soemthing like a psm2000 i think im not home now and maximum weight it says 170 pounds...and as far as extended warranties do i get it from amazon or another company.. what should i get

its soemthing like a psm2000 i think im not home now and maximum weight it says 170 pounds...and as far as extended warranties do i get it from amazon or another company.. what should i get

The 6020 w/o the stand is only 110-120lbs so the weight isn't going to be an issue.

As far as the warranty goes that's totally your call. Warranties are often a waste of money. The way I look at it is I just don't buy them and if something breaks then the money I've saved over the years can be spent on what breaks(Unless of course you are talking about an Xbox 360, the only gaming console in the history of video games that requires an EW :rolloeyes). It will come with a 1 year warranty and the TV might be worth 1/2 of what you pay for it this time next year. That's my take anyways.

Cleveland,

Thanks for the help. Fortunately, I was able to return my 5010 to (unnamed giant retailer) without any fuss. I was then able to purchase a 5020 from a different b&m on the way home. The 5020 is much better (quieter, better uniformity, and I can't believe it, a more detailed picture).


D-Nice,

Thanks for all of your contributions. You've been a huge help.

-R

I plugged my 6020 into a kill-a-watt. During normal TV watching, it fluctuated from around 250 to 500 watts. If I were to guess an average, it would probably be around 380.

Did you try the kW setting and watch the tv for a few hours? it gives a more accurate reading.

Cleveland,

Thanks for the help. Fortunately, I was able to return my 5010 to (unnamed giant retailer) without any fuss. I was then able to purchase a 5020 from a different b&m on the way home. The 5020 is much better (quieter, better uniformity, and I can't believe it, a more detailed picture).


D-Nice,

Thanks for all of your contributions. You've been a huge help.

-R

Congrats! That worked out great for you. I'm much happier with my 6020 over my 6010 as well (well, except a few missing picture controls!).

SO GUYS WILL MY WALL MOUNT WORK AND IF I DO WANT A EXTENDED warrant from whom

SO GUYS WILL MY WALL MOUNT WORK AND IF I DO WANT A EXTENDED warrant from whom

Don't know about the mount. But i hear good things about warranty from SquareTrade.

You can usually find coupon code for 30-50% off. Do a google search for it.

-D

SO GUYS WILL MY WALL MOUNT WORK AND IF I DO WANT A EXTENDED warrant from whom


Did you even bother reading my post? YOU need to find out first whether your mount will be able to handle the weight of the 50". And WTF with the shouting? :rolleyes:

You are incorrect sir. I gave you two references because they actually use it on emissive displays.

I'm well aware of that thread and I fully understand why Michael TVL, TomHuffman and the others stopped trying to assist you in that thread. Hopefully you will figure out why too :o

As the others have done, I'm now going to bow out of this discussion with with you. If you have any other topics, I'll be happy to attempt to find a resolution for you.

I'm sorry if my comments have come across as overly aggressive, or if my forum demeanor have upset you and other posters. All I'm trying to do is to establish the factual truth (as to whether the CA813 illuminance meter can accurately measure black-level luminance), but hiding behind a veil of secrecy and "you-should-know-better" air of superiority hardly helps your case.

Ah well, there's probably a reason why every respected magazines uses the Konica-Minolta LS-100 rather than a cheap illuminance meter to measure black level. It's been fun discussing this with you... please don't let my skepticism hinder your unselfish contribution to this forum (I, for one, am quite grateful).

Best regards
John

D-Nice

Is it possible to adjust the factory settings in the 6020 ? If so,

how do you do this and is it worth it to try to adjust

gamma and color level presets from the original factory settings.

I also

wanted to thank you for all of your work here. It has been very educational and helpful.

I love my 6020. Got it from Robert at VE.

Thanks
Ralph

Is it posssible to adjust factory presets?

Hey,

Just thought I would give a heads up to those who may not know about visa extending warranties.

I wasn't able to use my Amex, which doubles mfr warranties, but I found out visa has a similar program.

Check it out here;
http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/bft_warranty_mgr_eclaims.html

I'm going to duplicate this post somewhere here at AVS, for those unfortunate people not getting a Pioneer! :D

Hope this helps someone!

This is good info to know, and it has been discussed here. You should be clear on the info though, so as to not mislead anyone. The AmEx extension doubles the manufacturer's warranty up to one additional year, and only on warranties of five years or less. The Visa extension also doubles the manufacturer's warranty up to one additional year but on warranties of three years or less.

People will be disappointed if they only see "doubled" and think their warranties are always being doubled.

I was at BB/Magnolia yesterday, and saw they had a 110 and a 111 on the same wall, with a Panasonic 850 between them. There was a program on about Ferraris, and during a scene of a driveway with a nice blue sky, dark patches with deep blue halos appeared in all corners on both the Elites, but not on any other sets and only in that scene (which was shown several times). Has anyone seen anything like that before?


I found this quote about Vignetting. It has to do with photography and light fall off in the corners of images. Sometimes it's done intentionally, and other times it's because of poor design with photographic equipment...This effect happens with dark room enlargers too.

It's possible that the "Vignetting" was suppose to be there and the Pioneer Elites were the only ones that could properly display the intended effect.

Here are some good examples of vignetting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting



Vignetting (seen as excessive darkening of the corners of a rectangular image) is a tendency, of course, and like many issues in photography it's not entirely a technical issue, but partly an aesthetic one.

SO GUYS WILL MY WALL MOUNT WORK AND IF I DO WANT A EXTENDED warrant from whom

Geez! There have been responses, but you have to do a little work on your own. You have to determine whether the mount will work. Obviously, we're not all using your particular combination of equipment, and not inclined to do the research for you.

And you'll have to decide for yourself if you want a warranty, and read the fine print to know what you're getting, and decide which one. If you are buying from Amazon (not one of their third-party sellers), you are getting a return policy, not a warranty. The manufacturer's warranty applies.

I'm sorry if my comments have come across as overly aggressive, or if my forum demeanor have upset you and other posters. All I'm trying to do is to establish the factual truth (as to whether the CA813 illuminance meter can accurately measure black-level luminance), but hiding behind a veil of secrecy and "you-should-know-better" air of superiority hardly helps your case.Of course it can. If it could not, myself and the others would have told you so. There is no "veil of secrecy" regarding the meter. It's more of a comprehension of the replies you have received from myself, Michael TVL, TomHuffman, CT_Wiebe, and thomasl.

Ah well, there's probably a reason why every respected magazines uses the Konica-Minolta LS-100 rather than a cheap illuminance meter to measure black level.You sure every one uses the same meter? I've seen otherwise. Also, just because something cost more doen't mean it's better ;)

It's been fun discussing this with you... please don't let my skepticism hinder your unselfish contribution to this forum (I, for one, am quite grateful).

Best regards
JohnIt won't. Here is some good advise others have pointed out to me:

"It's not always what you say, it's how you say it".

D-Nice

Is it possible to adjust the factory settings in the 6020 by using rs232 commands? If so,

(I have list of commands in SM) how do you do this and is it worth it to try to adjust

gamma and color level presets from the original factory settings. It is not possible to

access SM with supplied remote. Only PDP service remote or rs232 commands. I also

wanted to thank you for all of your work here. It has been very educational and helpful.

I love my 6020. Got it from Robert at VE.

Thanks
RalphI've never used rs232 commands on a non-Elite.

How to enter Service Factory Mode by Using the
supplied Remote Control Unit
• From this model, can not enter the Service Factory Mode
by operating the supplied remote control unit keys.

From 6020FD Service Manual
So the service manual is out???? I know what service remote you are talking about. However, finding one is a PITA.

guys what im saying is my mount says it takes up to 170 pounds.... so i dont know if it will adjust to the 50 inch and as far as extended warranty i do want to get one but i was asking if there is a specific company that provides a good one for cheap

This is good info to know, and it has been discussed here. You should be clear on the info though, so as to not mislead anyone. The AmEx extension doubles the manufacturer's warranty up to one additional year, and only on warranties of five years or less. The Visa extension also doubles the manufacturer's warranty up to one additional year but on warranties of three years or less.

People will be disappointed if they only see "doubled" and think their warranties are always being doubled.

Right, good point. Thanks for expanding on that for me. Yes, discussed before but I figure never hurts to acquaint the newer members with this info.

Thanks D-Nice, I kind of thought so about getting the service remote. I am very happy

anyway. Just wanted to try to find out if it could be tweaked easily with good results.

Appreciate all of you hard work here for us forum readers.

Thanks
Ralph

Thanks D-Nice, I kind of thought so about getting the service remote. I am very happy

anyway. Just wanted to try to find out if it could be tweaked easily with good results.

Appreciate all of you hard work here for us forum readers.

Thanks
Ralph
Thanks. Yes, it can be tweaked if you have the rs232 codes. Do you have a PDF copy of the Service Manual or did you purchase it?

Coursey,

Does it list the model number of the necessary service remote?

Anybody know if there is a code script available to run on a Pronto or other universal, with serial extenders, to mimick this remote?

Last, does the manual list what parameters are adjustable through the serial interface, if so could you list any pertinent to picture quality, processing, and color.

Thanks

CNET UK has a very humorous un-boxing of the PDP-LX6090:

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/televisions/0,39029474,49297957,00.htm

I found something. Would you like to see one?
Ralph

Incorrect for BD sources. RGB should be set to LIMITED and superwhite set to On.

When I'm playing DVDs on my PS3, and I set the RGB setting to limited, I immediately and obviously lose details in the dimmer portions of the picture. The dimmer portions get darker and I lose the detail. When I put it back on "Full", I can see the details again. How is limited better in this case? I'm not real techy when it comes to this stuff, just telling you what my eye is seeing and what looks better. But, i want to try and understand. Thanks, in advance.

Jason

service remote?


PDP service remote.

Ralph

I purchased a pdf copy. Would you like a copy?
Ralph
Sure. Just PM me a link to it.

Does it list the model number of the necessary service remote?

Does not list model number, jut says PDP service remote.

RalphI know someone who has one. I'll ask them where they got it and PM you that info.

I know someone who has one. I'll ask them where they got it and PM you that info.

Thanks D-Nice,
I can email you
if you like.

Ralph

Does not list model number, jut says PDP service remote.

Ralph

Thanks for the quick reply

Would like to know how to get one and then, learn how to use it to tweak the 6020. Would be great. I would need help with kind of software etc. So much to learn.
Thanks all for your help. After all thats what this forum is all about. Members helping others.
Ralph

interesting...

When I'm playing DVDs on my PS3, and I set the RGB setting to limited, I immediately and obviously lose details in the dimmer portions of the picture. The dimmer portions get darker and I lose the detail. When I put it back on "Full", I can see the details again. How is limited better in this case? I'm not real techy when it comes to this stuff, just telling you what my eye is seeing and what looks better. But, i want to try and understand. Thanks, in advance.

Jason

Most likely, you will have to recalibrate your TV settings to display properly with the Limited Setting. The limited should actually not crush blacks like the RGB setting would. So if I were you, set it to limited, then work the brightness and contrast to see what works best.

Got to go to therapy.

Thanks guys for all the help,

Ralph

I found this quote about Vignetting. It has to do with photography and light fall off in the corners of images. Sometimes it's done intentionally, and other times it's because of poor design with photographic equipment...This effect happens with dark room enlargers too.

It's possible that the "Vignetting" was suppose to be there and the Pioneer Elites were the only ones that could properly display the intended effect.

Here are some good examples of vignetting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting

Vignetting (seen as excessive darkening of the corners of a rectangular image) is a tendency, of course, and like many issues in photography it's not entirely a technical issue, but partly an aesthetic one.

It did look something like that, though much more abrupt. If intentional, the video people didn't know how to do it properly. It was abrupt so as to look completely out of place. It could have been that the other sets scaled the image to fill the screen, being fooled by the dark (almost black) corners, though I don't think so.

Cleveland,

Thanks for the help. Fortunately, I was able to return my 5010 to (unnamed giant retailer) without any fuss. I was then able to purchase a 5020 from a different b&m on the way home. The 5020 is much better (quieter, better uniformity, and I can't believe it, a more detailed picture).-R
Good choice to go with the 5020FD for a little more $

In case this hasn't been posted, Costco.com now carries the 6020FD for a pretty good price (my assumption).

By the way, has any of you emailed **************** before? I just emailed them earlier today about the pricing of the 5020FD vs 111FD and wonder how long does it take for them to give me a reply back.

Thanks in advance.

In case this hasn't been posted, Costco.com now carries the 6020FD for a pretty good price (my assumption).

By the way, has any of you emailed **************** before? I just emailed them earlier today about the pricing of the 5020FD vs 111FD and wonder how long does it take for them to give me a reply back.

Thanks in advance.

I believe Robert the owner has been out of town on holiday and I'm sure he'll reply as soon as he can. He is pretty good about that.

By the way, has any of you emailed **************** before? Call toll free? ;)

Cool, thanks for the quick response guys, :)

In case this hasn't been posted, Costco.com now carries the 6020FD for a pretty good price (my assumption).

By the way, has any of you emailed **************** before? I just emailed them earlier today about the pricing of the 5020FD vs 111FD and wonder how long does it take for them to give me a reply back.

Thanks in advance.

The 6020 can be had cheaper from Forum sponsors.

a 90 day return policy is tempting

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will this wall mount work for the pioneer 5020 or do i need to buy a new one...

also would i have to provide reinforcemnt because my older 42 inch pwd7uk panasonic 42 inch is currently hanging there now and im moving up to the 50 should i have to chang anything

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

Schweet

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

D-Nice,
I don't know the first thing about getting into the service menu or what to do when I am in there and I have no intention of entering the service menu until I know exactly what I am doing.
What can we achieve by going into the service menu??
Better color accuracy?
Can you possibly change the layout of the NR,DRE,BLK LVL,ACL,ENHAN, GAMMA,CTI for each video mode?
I am very interested in hearing as much about this as possible.
Thanks,-Chad

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........
This is great news!

D-Nice or somebody, can you explain waht RS232C commands are? Also, will I need to purchase a remote, SM in pdf, ect.. ?

Thank you.

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Ohh, thank heavens! This is the best news I've had all day.

-David

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

Great news! Can't wait to hear what improvements can be made and how to make them. Happy 4th of July! :D

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

Big Drool. :D

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

Next you're gonna tell us everything they took away can be accessed, and I am gonna feel terrible for buying the 5010 :D

John

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

:eek:

This is great news!

D-Nice or somebody, can you explain waht RS232C commands are? Also, will I need to purchase a remote, SM in pdf, ect.. ?

Thank you.

RS-232C is the serial port on your computer. They may be using a simple DOS program or terminal comm package to send bytes out the serial port through a connected serial cable to the plasma.

guys what im saying is my mount says it takes up to 170 pounds.... so i dont know if it will adjust to the 50 inch and as far as extended warranty i do want to get one but i was asking if there is a specific company that provides a good one for cheap

If you are asking about an extended warranty for the plasma, read this CPS or Mack thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027267).

ok, so how will we be able to get this cable or software?

RS-232C is the serial port on your computer. They may be using a simple DOS program or terminal comm package to send bytes out the serial port through a connected serial cable to the plasma.
Thanks for the info.

Obviously, Enter the Service Mode at your own risk.

Happy 4th of July...

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

Happy days are here again! Now, THAT deserves a rap! :D

D-nice, are you going to start a Settings Thread?

D-nice, are you going to start a Settings Thread?Yes, but I need your help with something. I'll send it thru PM.

Thanks to Coursey, Turbe, D-Nice,

D-Nice, looking at the manual do you think we'll be able to unlock Pure mode?

Again, Nice Work you guys

guys what im saying is my mount says it takes up to 170 pounds.... so i dont know if it will adjust to the 50 inch and as far as extended warranty i do want to get one but i was asking if there is a specific company that provides a good one for cheap

several of the avs forum sponsors like roman at buybestplasma, john marty at axxisaudio, chris at clevelandplasma, mountavision, robert at value electronics offer ext warranties at decent prices. check their websites, contact them through their ads or text links at the top or bottom of this avs forum page.

ok, so how will we be able to get this cable or software?

should be a normal straight db9 serial cable, almost any computer store will have one or try monoprice.com

see turbe for the software post 6678

suggest you let dnice check it out a little and hopefully he'll be bringing good news about it soon.

D-Nice,
I don't know the first thing about getting into the service menu or what to do when I am in there and I have no intention of entering the service menu until I know exactly what I am doing.
What can we achieve by going into the service menu??
Better color accuracy?
Can you possibly change the layout of the NR,DRE,BLK LVL,ACL,ENHAN, GAMMA,CTI for each video mode?
I am very interested in hearing as much about this as possible.
Thanks,-Chad
Exactly what I want to know!

-Thanks D-Nice and Turbe!

Chad,

From the looks of it you'll be able to get those black side masks, instead of the annoying grey.

If your computer doesn't have a Serial Port (RS232) than you can use the Keyspan (ControlCAL officially supports it, they were kind enough to send one to me :D ). You would still need a Serial Cable as Posted above.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29


.

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

FRACKIN COOL!!!...Great news indeed!! Your expertise is a tremendous help to AVS. Thanks. Now D-Nice, can we have "Round 2" for a calibrated 6020??:D

Great news about the SM access D-Nice! Now if only DRE and color temp were adjustable in there for preset modes :).

I must be blind tonight, can someone point me in the right direction (if it exsists) to detailed information on how to get the break in DVD working on a usb drive.


Thank You

Great news about the SM access D-Nice! Now if only DRE and color temp were adjustable in there for preset modes :).

I saw in post# 2197 of this thread that D-Nice stated these features will not be adjustable in the service menu. So he may already know the answer to whether any of these features can be changed in the service menu.
But maybe something has changed. I hope so very much.

I must be blind tonight, can someone point me in the right direction (if it exsists) to detailed information on how to get the break in DVD working on a usb drive.


Thank You

Go into the "flat panel general & new FP tech forum.
then go into the "download break-in DVD" thread and find a post from evangelo. On his signature there is a link to his website. once you get in the website click where it says "free download availible in 3 formats" when the page opens, scroll down where it says "Plasma DVD break-in images". There is a zip file there. Open the zip file and put the files on your thumb USB drive. Then plug it into your Kuro and select slideshow. Make sure you adjust the screen size so the image covers the whole screen. I would put the slideshow interval on about 60 seconds. make sure the slideshow is set to repeat itself.
Hope that helps.
-Chadmak09

I've just heard a funny thing:

Some ISF calibrator here in Germany claims that he will have a 80" 9mm demo Kuro by the end of this year. It's supposed to cost 20k Euros. I'm quite doubtful that this can be true cause I thought that the 9mm panels would need 10 Lumen/W technology.

D-Nice?

Hi guys,

I have a couple questions about the new 9th generation Kuro's that I was hoping some of you here could answer. :)

With Panasonic starting to make the glass panels for the 10th generation Kuro's, I was wondering if Panasonic makes 50 inch plasma glass panels now? Because if they don't, that may well mean that there will be no 50 inch 10th generation Kuro's next year (I read about sizes like 58 inch and 65 inch mentioned for Panasonic). The 50 inch is the size we wanted to get, so that would mean we would have to get a 9th gen Kuro, as there may be no 10th gen Kuro 50 inch set to buy.

Also, I've seen Best Buy mentioned as one of the stores where you can return a t.v. like a Kuro with no questions asked if there is any problem at all in the opinion of the customer (like dead/stuck pixels, or buzzing that is louder than normal, etc.). Is Circuit City also a store that allows returns of expensive t.v.'s like a Kuro for exchange for a new-in-the-box t.v. with no questions asked like Best Buy does?

Thanks for any info. :)

Hello, on page 15 of user manual under the installation sites checklist, it is stated that the 5020 and 6020 be "Away from Ar Conditioners"

Now my setup has the 5020 on a stand at about 3 ft away from the back of the top right of the Kuro diagnal to the A/C. . The wall mount 18k BTU a/c is also about 1 foot higher then where the top of the 5020 lies.

How bad is this? Do I just make sure to have the A/C off while watching, but if I cover the Kuro it should be ok no? I thought A/C dehumidifies by nature, could this warning just be a lawyer warning in case someone has a swamp cooler or something?

If you have any information on this, it would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks so much!

It's probably due to the nature of extreme cold to hot adversely affecting electronics in general. I know this somehow affects glass in general, so this would be a particular issue with a plasma's glass panel. But, I would imagine having a display close to to an air conditioner would possibly cause warping of something or anything on or within the set itself. I could be way off base here, though.

Great news about the SM access D-Nice! Now if only DRE and color temp were adjustable in there for preset modes :).
Color temp changes are available in the SM thru RS232C commands. There are a LOT of things available thru RS232C commands (I now know why Pioneer locked out the SM ;)). The problem is having the changes stick after you exit the SM. The RGB changes are only valid for Standard mode.....so far.

More testing is needed. Will report back later.

I've just heard a funny thing:

Some ISF calibrator here in Germany claims that he will have a 80" 9mm demo Kuro by the end of this year. It's supposed to cost 20k Euros. I'm quite doubtful that this can be true cause I thought that the 9mm panels would need 10 Lumen/W technology.

D-Nice?Is he making it himself cause Pioneer won't have one for him?

Hello all,

Can someone please tell me where were the Pioneer 6020FD & 5020FD made ? Is it Japan or USA ?

Color temp changes are available in the SM thru RS232C commands. There are a LOT of things available thru RS232C commands (I now know why Pioneer locked out the SM ;)). The problem is having the changes stick after you exit the SM. The RGB changes are only valid for Standard mode.....so far.

More testing is needed. Will report back later.

Good news,

Curious, what other options are available?

Why did you "now know" the reason Pioneer locked the SM?

Good news,

Curious, what other options are available?

Why did Pioneer lock out the SM?

One of the primary differentiation between the elite and non-elite 9G Kuro is tweakability. Many aficionados aren't going to want to spend $1,000-$1,500 extra just for the speakers and extra year warranty. If they have access to the color tweaks, then they'll buy the non-elite and Pioneer would lose out on the extra profits.

Good news,

Curious, what other options are available?

Why did Pioneer lock out the SM?

To keep geeks (that us :)) from mucking up the TV.

I say this from experience as I surely screwed up a Mitsubishi several years ago. Who would have thought that there would not be an "undo" button somewhere? :eek: Although I spent several hours(think weeks) trying to get the convergence back, it never was quite right. That probably happens more than people realize....maybe not with convergence of a flat panel...but you get the gest. My best advice about going into a service menu is to have a video camera running so you can go back and return setting to where they were. You'd be surprised how easy it is to think you're in one area when you're somewhere else.

One of the primary differentiation between the elite and non-elite 9G Kuro is tweakability. Many aficionados aren't going to want to spend $1,000-$1,500 extra just for the speakers and extra year warranty. If they have access to the color tweaks, then they'll buy the non-elite and Pioneer would lose out on the extra profits.

However, some may just pass on Pioneer and buy something else.

Before we loose sight of this....lets see what all can be adjusted in the service menu. Gray scale is nice, but there's a whole lot more that can make it worthwhile or not.

Got a follow-up question for you about the buzzing problem with your panel that you have dealt with by using Power Saver Mode 2. Have you determined whether doing that affects your panel's performance at all? As you know, some people reported that using the Power Saver Mode 2 with 8G panels affected picture brightness. Did D-Nice end up weighing in on this for you since he had a 6020 to evaluate? I have a 111 which, knock on wood, is only a slight buzzer, but a friend of mine has a 6020 with a buzzing problem similar to the one you described.



I saw in post# 2197 of this thread that D-Nice stated these features will not be adjustable in the service menu. So he may already know the answer to whether any of these features can be changed in the service menu.
But maybe something has changed. I hope so very much.

One of the primary differentiation between the elite and non-elite 9G Kuro is tweakability. Many aficionados aren't going to want to spend $1,000-$1,500 extra just for the speakers and extra year warranty. If they have access to the color tweaks, then they'll buy the non-elite and Pioneer would lose out on the extra profits.

Right, I understand that but he said he "knows now" why they locked it.

There must be something interesting lurking in there that he didnt originally realize.

Paul

Right, I understand that but he said he "knows now" why they locked it.

There must be something interesting lurking in there that he didnt originally realize.

Paul

RGB Gamma Color point modification (RGB only)
Colorspace selection
A/V modes ISF Day/Night/Auto, Pure, User
Color temps High, Mid-High, Mid, Mid-Low, Low
Brightness limitation


are all listed in the SM. The trick is getting them to stay active after you exit the SM. JimP is correct as you can REALLY screw things up in the SM....especially this one.

RGB Gamma Color point modification (RGB only)
Colorspace selection
A/V modes ISF Day/Night/Auto, Pure, User
Color temps High, Mid-High, Mid, Mid-Low, Low
Brightness limitation


are all listed in the SM. The trick is getting them to stay active after you exit the SM. JimP is correct as you can REALLY screw things up in the SM....especially this one.

Thats really great news.

question, does this mean the non-elites can now jump out of Color Space 1?

Paul

Russ, I continue to struggle with the concept of Grade A glass vs. the best of Grade A glass. Bear with my hypothetical numbers to show my point:
If in the past, the top 5% of all glass went into the elite and now the top 2% will go into the Signature, doesn't that mean that the very best glass that used to go into the Elite is no longer available to it, meaning some Elite sets will take a hit in quality. Is this difference so miniscule as to be irrelevant? Or am I just not understanding something here?

Also, can you ask your contacts for the final specs on energy usage?

Thanks for filling us in!
How about the blotching,buzz and dead/stuck pixels....If Pioneer claims the signature panels are hand picked they better be free of the above defects....esp if they are going to charge the same or more money for the same

I was in J&R Music World earlier and got my first look at a 5020, with an HD feed of a Yankees pre-game show. I noted, during an interview with David Ortiz (they play the Red Sox today) the white background of the dug out wasn't, nor the white top of the interviewer; both were a light gray, and the picture had an overall gray cast to it. I'm sure this is an out-of-the-box picture, but does this improve with calibration? None of the LCDs had this issue, but then they were brighter overall.

Will the warranty be void if entering the SM on the 6020?

several of the avs forum sponsors like roman at buybestplasma, john marty at axxisaudio, chris at clevelandplasma, mountavision, robert at value electronics offer ext warranties at decent prices. check their websites, contact them through their ads or text links at the top or bottom of this avs forum page.
Does matter who I buy the extended warranty from as long as it is from the same 3rd party like Mack or whoever...Reason I`m asking this question is b/c one of my friends is a digital camera dealer and he said he can give the ext warranty at his cost price....

Will the warranty be void if entering the SM on the 6020?
Yes

Thats really great news.

question, does this mean the non-elites can now jump out of Color Space 1?

PaulI dont know.

no, it does NOT matter where u purchase your ext. warranty. Just check out the company first. Call em up and find out if it is 'in home' or 'carry in' service, no deductible, and if they have servicenters within the area.
Also, make sure they will allow you to pay the bill (and reimburse u) to the local Pioneer servicenter (since u do not want anyone but authorized Pioneer people inside) just in case the local Pioneer guy is NOT set up with your friend's extd. warr. company.
Questions?
Contact us...thx, alan
audio video designs
cc,tx 78411
361 8577236
alanl715@aol.com
Pioneer Elite sales and SERVICE

I was in J&R Music World earlier and got my first look at a 5020, with an HD feed of a Yankees pre-game show. I noted, during an interview with David Ortiz (they play the Red Sox today) the white background of the dug out wasn't, nor the white top of the interviewer; both were a light gray, and the picture had an overall gray cast to it. I'm sure this is an out-of-the-box picture, but does this improve with calibration? None of the LCDs had this issue, but then they were brighter overall.

Whites are plenty white.
9G units are noticeably brighter than the 8G units IMO, and I had no problems with the whites on the 8G's.
You can make the 9G's look LCD-ish if you like I would imagine.

I was in J&R Music World earlier and got my first look at a 5020, with an HD feed of a Yankees pre-game show. I noted, during an interview with David Ortiz (they play the Red Sox today) the white background of the dug out wasn't, nor the white top of the interviewer; both were a light gray, and the picture had an overall gray cast to it. I'm sure this is an out-of-the-box picture, but does this improve with calibration? None of the LCDs had this issue, but then they were brighter overall.Did you have the remote? If so, what where the picture settings and what power save mode was the set in?

These things are very important.

Here is an interesting comparison/review of the 151 to a Sony Qualia, by an owner of both. Though it’s like comparing papayas with watermelons, it’s still interesting.:cool:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14221334#post14221334

RGB Gamma Color point modification (RGB only)
Colorspace selection
A/V modes ISF Day/Night/Auto, Pure, User
Color temps High, Mid-High, Mid, Mid-Low, Low
Brightness limitation


are all listed in the SM. The trick is getting them to stay active after you exit the SM. JimP is correct as you can REALLY screw things up in the SM....especially this one.

OMG!!! once D-Nice figures out all the tricks in the service menu, it seems as though the non-elites may turn into Elites!!!

Please say it's so D-Nice!!!

Here's a short review of the PDP-LX5090 (Euro model):
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/reviews/review.phtml/3272/4296/pioneer-kuro-pdp-lx5090-plasma.phtml

I dont know.

Wow,

I have never seen you say that. I am sure you will figure it out over time.

You work on this could be an Elite killer. :rolleyes:

Paul

Will the warranty be void if entering the SM on the 6020?
If you screw something up and tell Pioneer that you accessed the SM, absolutely.

RGB Gamma Color point modification (RGB only)
Colorspace selection
A/V modes ISF Day/Night/Auto, Pure, User
Color temps High, Mid-High, Mid, Mid-Low, Low
Brightness limitation


are all listed in the SM. The trick is getting them to stay active after you exit the SM. JimP is correct as you can REALLY screw things up in the SM....especially this one.

Hhhmmm, so no controls for noise reduction setting and other image processing controls? Interesting.

As for getting them to stay active, we may be SOL -- the whole reason for the service menu is to allow a technician to diagnose problems in the field. As such, they may have simply not put the hooks into the firmware to allow changed settings to be saved. However, knowing engineers the way I do, I'll bet someone put a backdoor in. I assume that the RS232 connection presents a text menu of operations for the things you listed above. If we could get a copy of the firmware binary we could run a search on it to see if there are any interesting strings like "SaVe", etc. in it ...

We'll just have to see how your playing comes along. Have fun and try to get out at least a bit -- it's a beautiful day over here in the California Bay Area on the Fourth of July!

Casey

What are the effects on PQ when using Power Saver Mode 2 with a Kuro panel? Any difference between Elite and non-Elite panels? Thanks for responding.

Did you have the remote? If so, what where the picture settings and what power save mode was the set in?

These things are very important.

All,

I'm happy to report that access to the SM has been achieved!!!!! The layout is identical to the 8G series and RGB High/Low controls are available :) You have to use RS232C commands to access the SM, but once in there the regular remote works fine to maneuver through it.

Special thanks goes to coursey for providing the Service Manual and turbe for creating the GUI to enter and exit the SM.

I'm going to be tinkering with this SM for awhile and will report what I have done later.........

Sounds great D-Nice. I have 50 hours to go before the break in is done, and then I can finally watch the TV. Will you please PM me and quote me your fee for flying round trip into Atlanta to program my 6020 personally. I will buy your round trip ticket, provide transportation from Hartsfield International to the Alpharetta suburbs, and anything else you need in addition to your programming consult fee. Thanks in advance.:D

Seriously though, I need you to fly in. I am too much of a newbie to get into the SM.

Sounds great D-Nice. I have 50 hours to go before the break in is done, and then I can finally watch the TV. Will you please PM me and quote me your fee for flying round trip into Atlanta to program my 6020 personally. I will buy your round trip ticket, provide transportation from Hartsfield International to the Alpharetta suburbs, and anything else you need in addition to your programming consult fee. Thanks in advance.:D

Seriously though, I need you to fly in. I am too much of a newbie to get into the SM.

+1,

Buckhead here.

Paul

Will the warranty be void if entering the SM on the 6020?

Yes

OUCH!!!

Got a follow-up question for you about the buzzing problem with your panel that you have dealt with by using Power Saver Mode 2. Have you determined whether doing that affects your panel's performance at all? As you know, some people reported that using the Power Saver Mode 2 with 8G panels affected picture brightness. Did D-Nice end up weighing in on this for you since he had a 6020 to evaluate? I have a 111 which, knock on wood, is only a slight buzzer, but a friend of mine has a 6020 with a buzzing problem similar to the one you described.

The difference in brightness between Powersave off and powersave2 is minor to my eyes. But it is still there. Some say they cannot make out the difference.
I bet if someone sneaked into my settings and changed it to powersave2 without telling me, I would not notice the difference.
I asked D-Nice if he could maybe measure the difference and explain what the bottom line difference is.
One thing I would like to know is if the 9G set to Powersave2 is as bright as an 8G set to powersave off. Becasue the 8G's are bright enough for most of us and that would be a good comparison.
Maybe D-nice can do the comparison if he gets time, but I know he is totally busy right now working with the service menu so we should probably let him do ihis stuff. Thanks D, for all you do. It does not go unnoticed believe me.

Hello all, Can someone please tell me where were the Pioneer 6020FD & 5020FD made ? Is it Japan or USA ?

for the US models the panels and other parts are shipped in and assembled in Ccalifornia.

Sounds great D-Nice. I have 50 hours to go before the break in is done, and then I can finally watch the TV. Will you please PM me and quote me your fee for flying round trip into Atlanta to program my 6020 personally. I will buy your round trip ticket, provide transportation from Hartsfield International to the Alpharetta suburbs, and anything else you need in addition to your programming consult fee. Thanks in advance.:D

Seriously though, I need you to fly in. I am too much of a newbie to get into the SM.

might be easier to drive over from SC to Atlanta :).

Most likely, you will have to recalibrate your TV settings to display properly with the Limited Setting. The limited should actually not crush blacks like the RGB setting would. So if I were you, set it to limited, then work the brightness and contrast to see what works best.

Just to add to this, I am using D-Nice's reference settings on Movie mode, so I'm not sure I want to deviate from those settings. Also, if I have the PS3 output the BD/DVD video in Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr, it looks the same as if I have it set to RGB output with RGB set to full.

Jason

I live in Canada, and just got my delivery of the 111-FD. I plan to install it tomorrow and I will post some pictures, etc. I really want to work with D-Nice to ensure I set it up properly and do the burn-in properly.

I'm looking at getting the 6020 at a B&M store because I'm afraid of the Buzzing issue. Have people in this forum compared the XX20 to the pz800, and knowing the Kuro issues what made you decide on the Pioneer? I ask this only because the XX20 sets are still not on display here yet, and I truly respect the well researched views of this Forum

Thanks

might be easier to drive over from SC to Atlanta :).

It's a 5 hour drive from the Charleston area, vs. a 45 minute flight. Airtran flies the route along with Delta. I live in Mt. Pleasant, where is D-Nice? Wanna come admire my 5020 with me when it arrives next week? ;)

What are the effects on PQ when using Power Saver Mode 2 with a Kuro panel? Any difference between Elite and non-Elite panels? Thanks for responding.It drops peak brightness.by 15-20%

Sounds great D-Nice. I have 50 hours to go before the break in is done, and then I can finally watch the TV. Will you please PM me and quote me your fee for flying round trip into Atlanta to program my 6020 personally. I will buy your round trip ticket, provide transportation from Hartsfield International to the Alpharetta suburbs, and anything else you need in addition to your programming consult fee. Thanks in advance.:D

Seriously though, I need you to fly in. I am too much of a newbie to get into the SM.I may be coming to Atlanta next month.

It's a 5 hour drive from the Charleston area, vs. a 45 minute flight. Airtran flies the route along with Delta. I live in Mt. Pleasant, where is D-Nice? Wanna come admire my 5020 with me when it arrives next week? ;)I'm in Columbia so it's a 3 hour drive or 30 minute flight :D I won't be able to come to Charleston next week as I'll have my hands full with the 111FD :)

It's a 5 hour drive from the Charleston area, vs. a 45 minute flight. Airtran flies the route along with Delta. I live in Mt. Pleasant, where is D-Nice? Wanna come admire my 5020 with me when it arrives next week? ;)

Now I might like to see this, I'm on James Island. I couldn't wait and pulled the trigger on a 5010 at a great price, I might get buyers remorse if I see your 5020 :)

John

no, it does NOT matter where u purchase your ext. warranty. Just check out the company first. Call em up and find out if it is 'in home' or 'carry in' service, no deductible, and if they have servicenters within the area.
Also, make sure they will allow you to pay the bill (and reimburse u) to the local Pioneer servicenter (since u do not want anyone but authorized Pioneer people inside) just in case the local Pioneer guy is NOT set up with your friend's extd. warr. company.
Questions?
Contact us...thx, alan
audio video designs
cc,tx 78411
361 8577236
alanl715@aol.com
Pioneer Elite sales and SERVICE

I just have to add something here. Call them up by all means and ask your questions about their coverage, but the last question MUST be "Could you please send me a complete copy of the contract?" so that you can read it before you sign it. There is absolutely NO such thing as a verbal contract when it comes to this sort of thing, so anything you hear over the phone is irrelevant if it is not explicitly and clearly stated in the contract itself.

If you want an extended warranty, by all means get one. But be sure to read it first and know exactly what you do and don't get. People selling these have a way of, shall we say, "sugar-coating" the details.

Just picked up MY 151HD. Quick Question though. I know it comes with supplied speakers but I dont want to use them as it ruins the look of the TV. But I just sold my receiver (Waiting for the SC Series). Can I just run my front speakers (Paradigm Studio 40s) Through the TV using the speaker out until I get my receiver??

Thanks

RGB Gamma Color point modification (RGB only)
Colorspace selection
A/V modes ISF Day/Night/Auto, Pure, User
Color temps High, Mid-High, Mid, Mid-Low, Low
Brightness limitation


are all listed in the SM. The trick is getting them to stay active after you exit the SM. JimP is correct as you can REALLY screw things up in the SM....especially this one.

That's great! With the exception of DRE and noise reduction it sounds like we may have more control via the service menu in the 6020 than what we had last year on the 6010 if you can figure out how to get the changes retained.

Changing the brightness limitation setting sounds like something that a novice shouldn't be messing with :).

I may be coming to Atlanta next month.

Let me know if you have some time to make my 6020 look "Nice", no pun intended.:) Name your fee and it's done;)

Just picked up MY 151HD. Quick Question though. I know it comes with supplied speakers but I dont want to use them as it ruins the look of the TV. But I just sold my receiver (Waiting for the SC Series). Can I just run my front speakers (Paradigm Studio 40s) Through the TV using the speaker out until I get my receiver??

Thanks

Sure, give it a try. The worse that could happen is that you discover the Pioneer's little internal amp is not powerful enough to adequately drive the speakers. Since this is all temporary as you say you are waiting to buy Pioneer's SC series AVR, why not tough it out w/the supplied speakers which are definitely matched for the TV's little internal amp?? I mean, they aren't THAT pugly, and the new SC AVR's will be out in about 60-90 days.

D-nice, do you know if it possible to store adjustements for individual input in the service menu?

D-nice,

Have you received your second 111FD as of yet? If so (or if not and you know the answer to my upcoming question), can you please tell me what settings I should have it on when I first hook it up and start the burn-in process? and for how many hours should I be doing this for?

Thanks!

Is anyone else using and happy with the Sanus VMPL3B Mount for a 6020?

Mean you'll ONLY be able to fit 4 3" lag bolts into studs instead of 6? :rolleyes:

Do you have any idea how strong a connection that is? With 4 lag bolts properly installed, you'd probably rip the studs clean out of the wall before you'd rip the bolts out.

I put up a VMPL3B and did pullups on the bracket (I weigh 210lbs.) without it so much as budging or making a funny noise. Only into 2 studs.

The sarcasm in this post isn't directed at you by the way, but at the ridiculous overkill required by the mount companies to cover their butts. I would venture to guess that with 4 lag bolts in 2 different studs, you'd need nearly 1000lbs to compromise the connection.

At least you didn't make my first mistake and buy the VMPL2 that states it's good for a 60" set only to find out it was 1" to short in every dimension. I took it back to BB and got $20 knocked off the VMPL3 for my trouble, since it was $60 more and the product (VMPL2) was mislabeled.

Sounds great D-Nice. I have 50 hours to go before the break in is done, and then I can finally watch the TV. Will you please PM me and quote me your fee for flying round trip into Atlanta to program my 6020 personally. I will buy your round trip ticket, provide transportation from Hartsfield International to the Alpharetta suburbs, and anything else you need in addition to your programming consult fee. Thanks in advance.:D

Seriously though, I need you to fly in. I am too much of a newbie to get into the SM.



Why not buy the 151???

Did you have the remote? If so, what where the picture settings and what power save mode was the set in?

These things are very important.

Unfortunately, no remote. But having seen the same effect on a 5010 in a BB, it's obvious this is strictly out-of-the-box PQ and settings, and the set won't look like that after tweaking.

I was in J&R Music World earlier and got my first look at a 5020, with an HD feed of a Yankees pre-game show. I noted, during an interview with David Ortiz (they play the Red Sox today) the white background of the dug out wasn't, nor the white top of the interviewer; both were a light gray, and the picture had an overall gray cast to it. I'm sure this is an out-of-the-box picture, but does this improve with calibration? None of the LCDs had this issue, but then they were brighter overall.

You can't go solely by what these, or any other TV, looks like in the showroom.

Especially in a place like J&R! I've known this merchant to deliberately tweak flat-screens to look poor, for the sole purpose of steering you to something else. The salesmen are sharks, who habitually lie, withhold, or are deceitful regarding the specs. This is not a merchant that I would ever buy a flat-screen from.

A_C

I'm in Columbia so it's a 3 hour drive or 30 minute flight :D I won't be able to come to Charleston next week as I'll have my hands full with the 111FD :)
Just wanted to make the invitation, D, that the next time you are in the Charleston/Summervile area, you are more than welcome in my home. Just shoot me a PM. My new 151FD and I both would be glad to meet you.:D

Is anyone else using and happy with the Sanus VMPL3B Mount for a 6020?

Yes. Looks great and does the job nicely. I had the installer put it into 3 studs for a little extra peace of mind.

I have a 5020fd, the heat exahust fans on the rear never seem to be on. This is even after running the panel for over 8 hours! Does anyone know at what point the fans turn on?

Thanks, D-Nice. I want to be sure I understand correctly the concept of peak brightness. Is this linked to the capacity of the panel's processor to meet the peak demands of a signal it is driving? If you limit the power supply's maximum output by using Power Saver Mode 2, it lacks the "headroom" to fully process the signal's (millisecond measured) demand for increased brightness? If my assumption is correct, then the power saver setting limits the dynamic process of PQ rendering and is not something you can compensate for by just turning up the brightness setting or some other picture control. Is that right?

It drops peak brightness.by 15-20%

I have a 5020fd, the heat exahust fans on the rear never seem to be on. This is even after running the panel for over 8 hours! Does anyone know at what point the fans turn on?

Not sure, but I seem to recall there are good sized heatsinks all over down there.
The fans also may run, but quietly.

I am running my set 18 hours a day during break in and there is no noticeable fan noise.
Maybe they are larger slow RPM fans which are quiet-have no idea.