D-nice, do you know if it possible to store adjustements for individual input in the service menu?No you cannot.

D-nice,

Have you received your second 111FD as of yet? If so (or if not and you know the answer to my upcoming question), can you please tell me what settings I should have it on when I first hook it up and start the burn-in process? and for how many hours should I be doing this for?

Thanks!
Replacement 111FD is scheduled to be here on Tuesday.

Just wanted to make the invitation, D, that the next time you are in the Charleston/Summervile area, you are more than welcome in my home. Just shoot me a PM. My new 151FD and I both would be glad to meet you.:D
Thanks. When I come down, I'll send you a PM :)

No unless you have the same ohmage speakers as the ones supplied with the TV.

Just picked up MY 151HD. Quick Question though. I know it comes with supplied speakers but I dont want to use them as it ruins the look of the TV. But I just sold my receiver (Waiting for the SC Series). Can I just run my front speakers (Paradigm Studio 40s) Through the TV using the speaker out until I get my receiver??

Thanks

Thanks, D-Nice. I want to be sure I understand correctly the concept of peak brightness. Is this linked to the capacity of the panel's processor to meet the peak demands of a signal it is driving? If you limit the power supply's maximum output by using Power Saver Mode 2, it lacks the "headroom" to fully process the signal's (millisecond measured) demand for increased brightness? If my assumption is correct, then the power saver setting limits the dynamic process of PQ rendering and is not something you can compensate for by just turning up the brightness setting or some other picture control. Is that right?Power save 2 limits the peak brightness from 60-100IRE. So yes it would place a cap on the panel's "maximum" dynamic range and one cannot compensate for the reduction through either the "Contrast" or "Brightness" setting.

No unless you have the same ohmage speakers as the ones supplied with the TV.

Are you sure? The dealer said it was ok.

my speakers are 8 ohms. What is the tv speaker ratings?

Are you sure? The dealer said it was ok.What is the lowest wattage your speakers can handle? You can damage your speakers with too little power just like you can with too much power.

D-Nice,

How are the SM adjustments going? I know you said there was some problems with keeping the adjustments to stay permanent after exiting the SM. Also, will you update your review after all your experimenting is done?

Thank you!

Speakers 6-16 ohm. 18 watt stereo digital amp

D-Nice,

How are the SM adjustments going? I know you said there was some problems with keeping the adjustments to stay permanent after exiting the SM. Also, will you update your review after all your experimenting is done?

Thank you!There is a "save" command. But I'm not exactly sure what its used for and do not want to experiment with the command until I figure that part out. I will not do an update to the 6020FD review. However, I will note my observations in the upcoming 111FD review.

Are you sure? The dealer said it was ok.I learned this the hard way about 15 years ago. 4 ohm speakers driven by a 8 ohm amp led to some sad times in my dorm room.

Yeah, used to be an electrical engineer and it's always funny to see those things. :)

Or you can trust the dealer....

I learned this the hard way about 15 years ago. 4 ohm speakers driven by a 8 ohm amp led to some sad times in my dorm room.

Ill trust the dealer! 3 year warrenty!!

Going to fire it up in 10,9,8,7,6,5..........
:D

Does anyone here know what chip pio uses to deinterlace in the display?

I plan on buying the new bdp-51 and using source direct mode, so I was curios as to the non-elite chip. Is it different from the elite?

Paul

Does anyone here know what chip pio uses to deinterlace in the display?

I plan on buying the new bdp-51 and using source direct mode, so I was curios as to the non-elite chip. Is it different from the elite?

PaulThe chip is proprietary to Pioneer and is the same in both the non-Elite and Elite.

Not sure, but I seem to recall there are good sized heatsinks all over down there.
The fans also may run, but quietly.

I am running my set 18 hours a day during break in and there is no noticeable fan noise.
Maybe they are larger slow RPM fans which are quiet-have no idea.

Thanks for the reply. My 5020 is on a stand so I can easily look behind the unit. The fans are visible and are not running at all, this is even after being on for hours on end. Interesting. Can anyone else that can see there fans on the back on the 5020 check to see if they are ever running?

Thanks in advance!

I recently saw a video of the Hitachi Plasma manufacturing process. It was really quite intriguing; I'm constantly amazed that any of this technology works at all.

Anyway, I digress. The narrator mentioned that Plasma's all have two sheets of glass between which is sandwiched the gas containing cells.

Do Pioneer plasma's have these two sheets of glass too? I thought I read somewhere that they have a single sheet design or something similar.

Is this accurate and if so, what's different between the two approaches?

thanks...
rwr

Thanks. When I come down, I'll send you a PM :)

If you have the time when your down, can you let me know via a PM as well? I and my 111 would appreciate your expertise as well. Maybe, if its still there, your magic touch can revive my stuck pixel too since nothing I do seems to work:(

If you have the time when your down, can you let me know via a PM as well? I and my 111 would appreciate your expertise as well. Maybe, if its still there, your magic touch can revive my stuck pixel too since nothing I do seems to work:(Yep :)

I recently saw a video of the Hitachi Plasma manufacturing process. It was really quite intriguing; I'm constantly amazed that any of this technology works at all.

Anyway, I digress. The narrator mentioned that Plasma's all have two sheets of glass between which is sandwiched the gas containing cells.

Do Pioneer plasma's have these two sheets of glass too? I thought I read somewhere that they have a single sheet design or something similar.

Is this accurate and if so, what's different between the two approaches?

thanks...
rwrPlasmas have more than two sheets of glass. The narrator spoke of the glass substrates. On top of those substrates are additional items, including glass. Pioneer removed the top most layer of glass in their 5G and forward models.

Plasmas have more than two sheets of glass. The narrator spoke of the glass substrates. On top of those substrates are additional items, including glass. Pioneer removed the top most layer of glass in their 5G and forward models.
Ahh...thanks for clearing that up.

I assume that also explains why other brands reflect two slightly offset images (one from the covering glass and one from the substrate) from a light-source and Pioneer's only reflect one.

Ahh...thanks for clearing that up.

I assume that also explains why other brands reflect two slightly offset images (one from the covering glass and one from the substrate) from a light-source and Pioneer's only reflect one.The reflection is due to the distance between the top glass to the next glass sub layer. Reducing or eliminating that gap would get rid of the reflections.

The chip is proprietary to Pioneer and is the same in both the non-Elite and Elite.

Will you be purchasing the 51 as well? If not what player are you considering? I would be interested in your opinion as I just need pcm for a 2.1 system and I like the reports of initial build quality.

Anyway, if your going to be in Atlanta pm me, I will barter legal advice lol and would like for you to take a listen to the Theta, JL and Aerial gear.

Paul

Will you be purchasing the 51 as well? If not what player are you considering? I would be interested in your opinion as I just need pcm for a 2.1 system and I like the reports of initial build quality.Yes, I'm looking at the BDP-51. I'm also looking at the Panasonic BD-50.

Anyway, if your going to be in Atlanta pm me, I will barter legal advice lol and would like for you to take a listen to the Theta, JL and Aerial gear.

PaulEveryone needs a good lawyer :) I'll look you up when I come.

Yes. Looks great and does the job nicely. I had the installer put it into 3 studs for a little extra peace of mind.
Originally Posted by grider
Is anyone else using and happy with the Sanus VMPL3B Mount for a 6020?

Thanks. I just picked up this mount today. I'm going to use the non-tilting brackets which puts the TV about 1.25" from the wall.

6020 arrives Monday.

Ill trust the dealer! 3 year warrenty!!

Going to fire it up in 10,9,8,7,6,5..........
:D

I am guessing they will work. Do not turn them up and it is not a long term solution.
As noted-speakers clip and blow from not enough power and amps blow from trying to drive something beyond it's ability.The Paradigms are reasonably efficient, but still much more demanding than the PIO attached speakers.


I would keep them at low volume if you must use them.

I am guessing they will work. Do not turn them up and it is not a long term solution.
As noted-speakers clip and blow from not enough power and amps blow from trying to drive something beyond it's ability.The Paradigms are reasonably efficient, but still much more demanding than the PIO attached speakers.


I would keep them at low volume if you must use them.

1 hour in and no fire yet! Works great. What a picture.

People have previously said the 8 and 9G North American Pioneer plasmas support "PAL" (meaning "PAL" DVD input) but I have more specific queries.

Do these 9G Pioneer plasmas accept 1080i/50 and 1080p/50 inputs via HDMI from upconverted "PAL" DVDs and native HD source?

What is the display frequency if the input is 50Hz (576i to 1080p) - does it have a 50Hz mode or a 100Hz mode for correct 2:2 pulldown?

I've seen some mentions about input delay around (like post#5577), but nothing definitive regarding the 9G Kuros.

I'm going to finally get me an HDTV and I have it down to either a Pioneer or Panasonic plasma. Now now, I know the Pioneers are a better display whichever way you look at it; I will solely be using the display for gaming (and the rare movie) but there's a key piece of information I haven't been able to aquire, and that is the amount of input lag that these panels add. I will be going for the one that has significantly the least lag; if both are close of course I'll get a Kuro Elite. (I will be posting this same question on the 9G elite thread and in the panasonic thread, don't take it the wrong way)

The question is a simple one, has any owner of a 9G panel (I'm planning on the 111FD) popped in some Guitar Hero III or Rock Band and done the in-game calibration? if so, what numbers did you get? This may not be the most scientific method to determine the input lag but it's leaps and bounds better than only doing a subjective evaluation (as in "I [do/don't] NOTICE any lag and [I/my son] play a lot").

There's a lot of valuable people and info on this site, thanks for that. Unfortunately for me, most people are not gamers and thus in close to 7000 posts this piece of data or measurement has not surfaced anywhere nor been significantly discussed about.

Man, I can't believe I read the whole thread during the last couple of weeks.

Thanks in advance to anyone who helps

1080p24 mode sucks on my ATI HD 3870. Anyone have any advice for getting smooth 1080p24 out of your HTPC? I\'m using PURE Mode, PureCinema: Standard, and selected 24hz refresh rate under the display settings. Is there anything else I should be doing? It makes 24p material look worse (i.e. choppy, frame dropping effect) than at 1080p60 and that can\'t be right can it??

HDCanHD, 24fps will look more choppy at first compared to 60fps. That said, you might want to try the Pure Cinema set to Advanced.

When you describe frame dropping, is it every second or so or does the motion look just a little bit jittery and look like it's missing multiple frames within a second?

HDCanHD, 24fps will look more choppy at first compared to 60fps. That said, you might want to try the Pure Cinema set to Advanced.

When you describe frame dropping, is it every second or so or does the motion look just a little bit jittery and look like it\'s missing multiple frames within a second?

Motion is unnatural intermittently. You can see frames missing in between people\'s eye blinks for instance, or hand movements, every few (5-15) seconds it seems like the frames are being multiplied incorrectly as movement will slow down seemingly for a few frames, also shows shot with a kind of \'freehand\' camera (like some stuff in LOST, the office) pans tends to cause the stuttering to occur. I thought Pure Cinema would handle all this stuff better. :S

Very strange. I\'m working on a E8400 Wolfdale too, so I don\'t think it\'s hardware it might be a software issue. But still, kinda disappointed I can\'t get 24p content from the PC to look smooth and flawless, so I\'m forced to keep it on 1080p60. :S

Thanks again, D-Nice. I know that Pioneer understands that the majority of the consumers who buy Kuro panels are videophiles looking for the best PQ possible. Under what conditions did they foresee power saver settings as appropriate and desirable, given the compromised PQ that results?

Power save 2 limits the peak brightness from 60-100IRE. So yes it would place a cap on the panel's "maximum" dynamic range and one cannot compensate for the reduction through either the "Contrast" or "Brightness" setting.

Thanks again, D-Nice. I know that Pioneer understands that the majority of the consumers who buy Kuro panels are videophiles looking for the best PQ possible. Under what conditions did they foresee power saver settings as appropriate and desirable, given the compromised PQ that results?How is the PQ compromised? Limiting maximum dynamic range isn't the same as "clipping" the dynamic range.

The power save mode limits the peak brightness.....nothing further.

Just picked up MY 151HD. Quick Question though. I know it comes with supplied speakers but I dont want to use them as it ruins the look of the TV. But I just sold my receiver (Waiting for the SC Series). Can I just run my front speakers (Paradigm Studio 40s) Through the TV using the speaker out until I get my receiver??

Thanks

If you would like to unload those speakers, PM me and let me know your price :D

T minus 20 hours and counting for the 150 hr break-in dvd.

Is it recommended to save the break-in DVD for future use...maybe for a stuck pixel down the road??

If people think it's not necessary to keep the DVD once the break-in is completed, then if anybody wants me to forward the DVD to them, PM me with your address and I will drop it in the mail.

I am sorry, I don't think I phrased my question the right way. What I meant was if the power save modes limit the maximum dynamic range as regards brightness level, under what conditions would it be desirable to use one of those settings? Although not likely by design, we know mode 2 can serve as a panel buzz dampener, but what were these settings really designed for? For example, is there really enough reduction in energy consumption over, say, a month of an average 3 hours/day viewing that one can see the difference on one's electric bill? I know that, where energy conservation is concerned, every little bit counts, so I'm not criticizing this approach. But was that sort of goal the design engineer's intent or was it something else?

How is the PQ compromised? Limiting maximum dynamic range isn't the same as "clipping" the dynamic range.

The power save mode limits the peak brightness.....nothing further.

Hi all,
Apologies in advance, I do a lot of reading on AVS but don't engage much. I've been suffering with my ancient 19" CRT while waiting for technology to mature to the point where flat panels looked like they do with the 9G Kuros - so I don't have any experience to add to discussions.

I do have questions though:

1.) I live in NYC and I don't drive - does anyone know of a trustworthy vendor that will deliver a 111FD, unpack it, plug it in and let me turn it on to check for dead/stuck pixels on the spot? My thinking is: once it is delivered I have no way of returning it to the store -- so I'd need to refuse it and have the delivery person remove it. I'm a graphic designer and stare at pixels all day long so permanent dead/stuck pixels will drive me insane if seen from my couch.

2.) This is absurdly unlikely, but worth a shot -- does anyone know of vendors that do specialized services like checking the screens for dead pixels and running the 6-day break-in prior to delivery? I live in close quarters and having the TV shining colorful lights 24/7 will probably keep me up at night and distract me during the day. I'd obviously be willing to pay more for the service.

3.) I've been reading for a few hours and one thing I haven't read much about (other than a post here or there) is gaming with the KUROs. Are the folks on this forum not big on gaming -- or is this really the wrong kind of television to use for that purpose because of IR concerns? I have a PS3 and an XBox 360 that I am eager to play in full KURO glory. Though I know IR is not the threat it once was, it scares the crap out of me -- especially since a 6-day break-in is still necessary! I have no desire to settle for an LCD, though I know that is the safer tech to use...but do wonder if it would make sense to get a small, cheap one for now and then upgrade to a Pioneer LCD when those roll out (I'm assuming/hoping they'll be extra special.)

I've been waiting, researching and WAITING for so long -- I really want to bite the bullet and just buy one of these sets. But, as with any major purchase for me, caution prevails. I'd like as little hassle as possible, and to be able to enjoy this set for years to come for all the things I use my current dinosaur TV for.

Thanks!

contact robert at value electronics, his store is in scarsdale, ny, he is an avs forum sponsor and pioneer elite dealer in the nyc area. he has sold/delivered/setup many avs members elites and he should be able to take care of you with great service/prices too. he is having a flat panel shoot-out at his store around july 17/18 that you might consider attending if you can. link to the shoot out thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1031523

....the amount of input lag that these panels add.....

Good question. Hopefully, someone has some insight they can provide (since, there are so many lucky owners on here.):D

3.) I've been reading for a few hours and one thing I haven't read much about (other than a post here or there) is gaming with the KUROs. Are the folks on this forum not big on gaming -- or is this really the wrong kind of television to use for that purpose because of IR concerns?


Check the Kuro pictures thread, you should see plenty of Video Game shots.
The set has some the latest Anti-burn-in IR protection with it's orbitor modes. It seems to be working quite well from what I can see. I also appreciate the "no activity" setting that will turn the set off in the case of things like "falling asleep" with something on screen. I set it to 3 hours no activity and find that a great feature :o

I have a PS3 and an XBox 360 that I am eager to play in full KURO glory.
Though I know IR is not the threat it once was, it scares the crap out of me -- especially since a 6-day break-in is still necessary!


Both look fantasitic on Kuro. Break-in is strictly optional by practically all accounts on the latest plasmas.

I have no desire to settle for an LCD, though I know that is the safer tech to use...but do wonder if it would make sense to get a small, cheap one for now and then upgrade to a Pioneer LCD when those roll out (I'm assuming/hoping they'll be extra special.)

I use the consoles on LCD & LCoS as well. They look quite bright and vibrant on those set too however gaming has a different charm on plasma and on Kuro the rich colors give it an even more distinctive look.

D-Nice,
When you have time, could you PM me about the remote we mentioned before.

Appreciate the things you do for the forum members and thanks again. Will wait to read

111 review for info on the SM.

Thanks again
Ralph

Quick question for coursey, D-Nice, or anybody else "in the know":

Where did you guys get your copy of the service manual from? I have them for some of my other gear and would like to get one for my 5020, but I wasn't sure where to get one.

Thanks

Hey guys, This may seem like a dumb question but what does "pure" mode do? My 6020 does not have this. What are the benefits?
Also, Does the PRO-151FD save setting for each input? I know the 6020 only does this for standard mode but does the Elite do it for all?

Also, I read a post where someone was talking about the "elite color filter for enhansed contrast in bright environments" that the elites have and the non-elites don't. I did not see this on the specs for the elite from page one of this thread. Is this true?

Also, I have seen a few posts about the standard def processing on the elites being superior to the processing on the non-elites. Do the elites really have better processing?

With the 8thGen's the elites had slightly deeper blacks due to a filter, the blacks on the non-elites and elites this year are the same correct?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am considering getting a pro-151FD. I just want to find out exactly what al the differences are besides the obvious ability to adjust your color temp, NR, gamma, BLK LVL, and all the other settings that were stripped from the non-elites.

Thanks guys.
-The Chad

Hey guys, This may seem like a dumb question but what does "pure" mode do? My 6020 does not have this. What are the benefits?
Also, Does the PRO-151FD save setting for each input? I know the 6020 only does this for standard mode but does the Elite do it for all?

Also, I read a post where someone was talking about the "elite color filter for enhansed contrast in bright environments" that the elites have and the non-elites don't. I did not see this on the specs for the elite from page one of this thread. Is this true?

Also, I have seen a few posts about the standard def processing on the elites being superior to the processing on the non-elites. Do the elites really have better processing?

With the 8thGen's the elites had slightly deeper blacks due to a filter, the blacks on the non-elites and elites this year are the same correct?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am considering getting a pro-151FD. I just want to find out exactly what al the differences are besides the obvious ability to adjust your color temp, NR, gamma, BLK LVL, and all the other settings that were stripped from the non-elites.




Thanks guys.
-The Chad

The only one I can really speak to, and then only in anecdotal terms, is the Pure Mode question. The manual says it "reflects input signals as faithfully as possible for checking image materials, for example." To my eye, it seems to do just what the name implies- there doesn't appear to be any sharpness or color enhancement, and it yields a more "subdued" picture that has a more natural look with some material. I kind of prefer it for regular TV (things like CNN, Encore SD movies, etc., that aren't HD and aren't sports), as the other modes tend to exascerbate the weaknesses of SDTV rather than compensate for them. For high-res material, it has a slightly yellowish cast that I don't like as well.

I do like the extensive adjustability of the 151, although I'm still trying to figure out which settings can be retained per input. As I've posted elsewhere, I don't think the Kuro handles SD TV as well as my Sony SXRD, so the ability to really tweak around with that and come up with a watchable image is key. (I do watch a lot of news whenever the TV is on during the day...)

Another simple and obvious difference, but one that might matter to some, is that the Elites have the speakers on the sides. I think it looks better, but that's just me. I also think that the separation of side speakers sounds better than bottom-mounted speakers. For me, this matters because I just use TV sound for most TV watching. (Didn't really want to fire up the whole surround system for the gazillion hours of primary coverage I've watched over the past few months. :o)

Chad,

That is exactly what I want to know, contemplating the same transition.

Having read through the whole General, non-Elite, and part of the Elite thread in the last 3 days, I don't recall any quantifiable data specifying measured differences. I think we will have to wait for next weekend or the following week to read D-Nice's review of the 111 to find out what the actual differences are.

Sadly it's looking as if Pioneer is achieving there goal of pushing more people to the Elites, granted though they are priced at last years non-Elite pricing, but the whole PDP market is seeing per pixel price drops. If it weren't for the dealer constraints put on the Elite series I would already own one (local search turns up no less than 9 Magnolia/BB's which is a no-go).

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see, it's just too early into the game.

progprog,

If you can use digital photography to make a comparison, you always want to add some sharpening somewhere in the signal processing. Otherwise, the raw picture is too soft.

.....Sadly it's looking as if Pioneer is achieving there goal of pushing more people to the Elites, granted though they are priced at last years non-Elite pricing, but the whole PDP market is seeing per pixel price drops. If it weren't for the dealer constraints put on the Elite series I would already own one (local search turns up no less than 9 Magnolia/BB's which is a no-go).

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see, it's just too early into the game.
Just curious why that's a no-go.....

progprog,

If you can use digital photography to make a comparison, you always want to add some sharpening somewhere in the signal processing. Otherwise, the raw picture is too soft.
Thanks for the analogy. Sorry to be a little dense, but is your point that there's sharpening in Pure Mode as well? If that's the case, I didn't mean to claim there's no processing, just that it doesn't look as processed to me as the other modes. That seems to help with those crappy Comcast signals...:rolleyes: I would imagine the Comcast box does some type of processing of its own. (I sure wish Pioneer had continued to support CableCards....I really hate the set-top box.)

Just curious why that's a no-go.....

Went to purchase a 151 on the 4th, and they were unwilling to negotiate at all. The BB's in my area are thrashed, poorly staffed, with items strewn everywhere and always seem to be OOS of that one thing you needed.

My personal experience with BB is poor. It's too bad Good Guys went under, I used to live by the original store and had been buying A/V stuff from them long before the internet became popular. At least you got courteous, knowledgeable staff, and they were always willing to make a deal.

Went to purchase a 151 on the 4th, and they were unwilling to negotiate at all. The BB's in my area are thrashed, poorly staffed, with items strewn everywhere and always seem to be OOS of that one thing you needed.

My personal experience with BB is poor. It's too bad Good Guys went under, I used to live by the original store and had been buying A/V stuff from them long before the internet became popular. At least you got courteous, knowledgeable staff, and they were always willing to make a deal.

Thats how the best buy is here in huntsville alabama.
I asked one of the salesmen if I could talk to the manager about getting them to negotiate a price and he looked at me like I was crazy. He simply pointed to the sticker price and said "that is what the price is" and told me that they don't do that.
And thats the only best buy within hundreds of miles from here.

I think he thought I was joking or something. I think that some bestbuys will negotiate becasue they know that they buyers have alot more options in the large cities.
Here in huntsville, Bestbuy is the only place that sells Pioneer in the whole city.
He told me that they would match any other stores price in town, but alot of good that does when noone else sells pioneer.

The new Pio Kuros were just released here in Thailand. However, the model numbers are different than in USA and this has me confused. Does anyone here know where I can compare Thai model numbers with USA model numbers?

BTW, these new Thai Kuros are only available as one model in 42, 50 & 60 inch sizes, so I'm trying to figure out if they are "Elites" or what?

Thanks

Hi all,
Apologies in advance, I do a lot of reading on AVS but don't engage much. I've been suffering with my ancient 19" CRT while waiting for technology to mature to the point where flat panels looked like they do with the 9G Kuros - so I don't have any experience to add to discussions.

I do have questions though:

1.) I live in NYC and I don't drive - does anyone know of a trustworthy vendor that will deliver a 111FD, unpack it, plug it in and let me turn it on to check for dead/stuck pixels on the spot? My thinking is: once it is delivered I have no way of returning it to the store -- so I'd need to refuse it and have the delivery person remove it. I'm a graphic designer and stare at pixels all day long so permanent dead/stuck pixels will drive me insane if seen from my couch.

2.) This is absurdly unlikely, but worth a shot -- does anyone know of vendors that do specialized services like checking the screens for dead pixels and running the 6-day break-in prior to delivery? I live in close quarters and having the TV shining colorful lights 24/7 will probably keep me up at night and distract me during the day. I'd obviously be willing to pay more for the service.

3.) I've been reading for a few hours and one thing I haven't read much about (other than a post here or there) is gaming with the KUROs. Are the folks on this forum not big on gaming -- or is this really the wrong kind of television to use for that purpose because of IR concerns? I have a PS3 and an XBox 360 that I am eager to play in full KURO glory. Though I know IR is not the threat it once was, it scares the crap out of me -- especially since a 6-day break-in is still necessary! I have no desire to settle for an LCD, though I know that is the safer tech to use...but do wonder if it would make sense to get a small, cheap one for now and then upgrade to a Pioneer LCD when those roll out (I'm assuming/hoping they'll be extra special.)

I've been waiting, researching and WAITING for so long -- I really want to bite the bullet and just buy one of these sets. But, as with any major purchase for me, caution prevails. I'd like as little hassle as possible, and to be able to enjoy this set for years to come for all the things I use my current dinosaur TV for.

Thanks!

Robert at Value Electronics http://www.*********************/ . They are delivering my 111FD tomorrow (Staten Island). Your warranty will be good (250 mile radius as Pioneer states), give you a great price, free delivery and stand behind it if problems arise.

Hey guys, This may seem like a dumb question but what does "pure" mode do? My 6020 does not have this. What are the benefits?


Thanks guys.
-The Chad


I can not speak concerning the pure mode for the 151 but I will say that with my 150, in pure mode, with d-nice reference settings the pq is outstanding.I have gone through different mode options and I ALWAYS end up back to pure mode with d-nice settings,its that good:)

Thanks d-nice:D

"chadmak09,
Also, Does the PRO-151FD save setting for each input? I know the 6020 only does this for standard mode but does the Elite do it for all?"

Same with the Elite 151. Standard only.

I am sorry, I don't think I phrased my question the right way. What I meant was if the power save modes limit the maximum dynamic range as regards brightness level, under what conditions would it be desirable to use one of those settings? Although not likely by design, we know mode 2 can serve as a panel buzz dampener, but what were these settings really designed for? For example, is there really enough reduction in energy consumption over, say, a month of an average 3 hours/day viewing that one can see the difference on one's electric bill? I know that, where energy conservation is concerned, every little bit counts, so I'm not criticizing this approach. But was that sort of goal the design engineer's intent or was it something else?

I'm not D-Nice and I don't own a Kuro, but I adjust the backlight(Samsung calls it "E-Saving") on my LCD throughout the day to match outside lighting conditions. What is normal during daytime viewing is blinding at night.

I understand that the Kuros have the ability to do this on their own, but using this function would allow users to manually adjust peak brightness to match the lighting conditions.

You can't go solely by what these, or any other TV, looks like in the showroom.

Especially in a place like J&R! I've known this merchant to deliberately tweak flat-screens to look poor, for the sole purpose of steering you to something else. The salesmen are sharks, who habitually lie, withhold, or are deceitful regarding the specs. This is not a merchant that I would ever buy a flat-screen from.

A_C

I wasn't planning to buy from them, just looking. But the effect on the 9G stood out and I was curious. One IT guy from the job once said he'd never buy anything from J&R costing more than $100.

This has been alluded to before, but I have a question about channel configuration. I have cable and one over-the-air digital station. Up until now, I've used an A-B switch to go back and forth between cable and an antenna. Since I got the 111, I've tried the A-B switch and a splitter, but every time I try to program the digital channels, it either keeps the QAM cable channels or the one over-the-air station. I can't keep both! (Even though the manual says, "and/or cable and antenna").

Has anyone had any luck with that? Otherwise, I'm calling Pioneer tomorrow. Thanks!

Just as quickly as it appeared, the 6020 appears to be gone from Costco's website. Did anyone snag one? Thought it would be nice to have another area buying option, or a price match headache for BB (LOL) but alas, it's gone.

I was surprised Costco had the 6020 at all as they are not Pioneer dealers. They got the end of life 5010s from a distributor. Costco will not have any current Pioneer products and I don't think you'll see them with close-out Pioneer products in the future.

-Robert

Just as quickly as it appeared, the 6020 appears to be gone from Costco's website. Did anyone snag one? Thought it would be nice to have another area buying option, or a price match headache for BB (LOL) but alas, it's gone.

I wouldn't be surprised if those were mismarked 6010's. It said something like "limited to supplies on hand" on the product page.

^^. likely the case as I do not think Costco had any 6020s.

-Robert

I was surprised Costco had the 6020 at all as they are not Pioneer dealers. They got the end of life 5010s from a distributor. Costco will not have any current Pioneer products and I don't think you'll see them with close-out Pioneer products in the future.

-Robert

Yes, I got one of those "end of run" 5010s manufactured in April '08. Price was too good and knocked me out of waiting for a signature 9G. "smiles"

John

The new Pio Kuros were just released here in Thailand. However, the model numbers are different than in USA and this has me confused. Does anyone here know where I can compare Thai model numbers with USA model numbers?

BTW, these new Thai Kuros are only available as one model in 42, 50 & 60 inch sizes, so I'm trying to figure out if they are "Elites" or what?

Thanks

I think you'd have to compare their specs (on Pioneer's Thai or Asian website, whatever has these models) to the models you see on the US site. One easy indicator might be the speakers. The Elites have vertical, side-mounted speakers, while the non-Elites have the speakers in a horizontal bar under the screen.

...

Just as quickly as it appeared, the 6020 appears to be gone from Costco's website. Did anyone snag one? Thought it would be nice to have another area buying option, or a price match headache for BB (LOL) but alas, it's gone.

Amazing that it was there. I saw it in the morning yesterday. Was surprised at the price and that it was there at all. Logged-off, made coffee and thought about it as I have not seen the display yet so it needed some thought.

Logged in about an hour and half later and it was gone....Wow. That was quick...

Rick

Yes, I'm looking at the BDP-51. I'm also looking at the Panasonic BD-50.

Everyone needs a good lawyer :) I'll look you up when I come.
D-Nice
Which one would you pick among the two

You might want to look at this one
http://review.zdnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/panasonic-dmp-bd50/4505-6463_16-32815617.html

What about PS3 .... from what I have read the BD 50 is no good for Standard DVD`s.....
Can you tell me what your conclusions are so far,if any

I actually ordered a 6020 from Costco last Thursday when the info was first posted. Received a confirmation email for the order but will have to wait and see if it works out.

I had a general question regarding upconversion/scaling and I guess this would apply to the 8G's as well? Is the tv upconverting/scaling process to its native resolution the same for all video inputs?

For example, if you are sending a 480i signal from a DVD player using composite or S-video, would a different upconversion algorithm be used if the same 480i signal was sent through the component video? I would think that for all analog inputs it would be the same and for HDMI it would be different.

wow what i miss alot lol but i'v been trying to catch up and it took a while! D-nice is your 111 schld for tomorrow? i thought you already had it? or did it arrived cracked as well?

also so does this mean that the 9g non elite as close as an elite as as its ever going to be? of course im aiming for an elite i want total control and nothing less



RGB Gamma Color point modification (RGB only)
Colorspace selection
A/V modes ISF Day/Night/Auto, Pure, User
Color temps High, Mid-High, Mid, Mid-Low, Low
Brightness limitation


are all listed in the SM. The trick is getting them to stay active after you exit the SM. JimP is correct as you can REALLY screw things up in the SM....especially this one.

EDIT: but persay it woud be possible to save the settings then its closer to an elite since it has atruibutes such as colorspace and such?

D-Nice
Which one would you pick among the two

You might want to look at this one
http://review.zdnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/panasonic-dmp-bd50/4505-6463_16-32815617.html

What about PS3 .... from what I have read the BD 50 is no good for Standard DVD`s.....
Can you tell me what your conclusions are so far,if anyI don't know which one I would pick. I will never use the PS3 as a BD player. I classify it as a game console regardless of it's additional features.

wow what i miss alot lol but i'v been trying to catch up and it took a while! D-nice is your 111 schld for tomorrow? i thought you already had it? or did it arrived cracked as well? First 111FD was damaged by the delivery person. Replacement is scheduled for tomorrow.

also so does this mean that the 9g non elite as close as an elite as as its ever going to be?Huh? The things I listed are RS232C commands that are available for the 6020FD. However, I have not found a way to save any of the commands so that they work outside of the SM.

First 111FD was damaged by the delivery person. Replacement is scheduled for tomorrow.

Huh? The things I listed are RS232C commands that are available for the 6020FD. However, I have not found a way to save any of the commands so that they work outside of the SM.

I have a question about this SM thing - just because we don't quite understand it yet, doesn't mean that another professional calibrator wouldn't, does it? For example, if I wanted to have my 5020 ISF calibrated, they'd know how, right?

I know that sounds like a silly question but calibration's never even been a consideration before this TV. It seems to me like ISF would be worth it. Can anyone with experience getting ISF calibration on a 8G or 9G share their thoughts?

6020 is now back on the costco website! I guess it was not a fluke.
Does this mean Costco is now an authorized dealer?

6020 is now back on the costco website! I guess it was not a fluke.
Does this mean Costco is now an authorized dealer?

I doubt Pioneer would not cover a unit bought from Costco. I guess Pioneer decided to move some more numbers this year as you see more and more places have these.

they will not deny coverage of warranty regardless of costco being authorized or not, im glad costco and more places are seeing pioneers and i would of wished an elite would be ready from them.... that would be awesome if the elite would be a 3yr warranty insted of two since costco extends the manufacture warranty. also i strongly belive the policys as with authorized or the 250 miles rules is being forgotten or forgive to a certain extend in costco example but i guess the excuse could be that theirs one almost in every city even if purchaesd online ....

again this is my point of view, IT it in NO way any official information.

I'm extremely excited to be purchasing a 5020FD soon (been shopping for a year now). But I was a little concerned when I saw a 5020 at Best Buy... the picture had alot of artifacts (as if it was SD television), and in no way looked like I had imagined it. It was receiving the store's feed and was NOT connected to Blu Ray.

I've read in the forums that you shouldn't judge overall picture quality since stores don't set up "ideal" settings.

Does BB actually stream in true, 1080p HD to their in-store displays, or is that feed lower quality?

They had a 5080HD on closeout and that unit's picture looked far better than the new 5020... which was really scary.

forget everything you see in bestbuy, they are among the worse when it comes to signal, insted if you want to try it buy it from them and if you dont like it (which i doulbt) return it

also compare other stores if possible, but the newer 9g will be better with a minor setbacks that lack of certain ajustments,... overall d nice perferd the 9g non elite even over an 8g elite

Most Best Buys definitely don't send hi-def to their screens, it's usually 480p at best unless it's got the Blu-ray player right there with the screen. Still, it gives you an idea how the SD processing will be. :P

forget everything you see in bestbuy, they are among the worse when it comes to signal, insted if you want to try it buy it from them and if you dont like it (which i doulbt) return it

also compare other stores if possible, but the newer 9g will be better with a minor setbacks that lack of certain ajustments,... overall d nice perferd the 9g non elite even over an 8g elite
how about restocking fees etc when you buy from best buy

restocking fees do not apply to tvs i know it may sound dishonest to buy and simply return but well they arent honest entirely to begain with

Restocking Fee
A 15% restocking fee will be charged on opened notebook computers, projectors, camcorders, digital cameras, radar detectors, GPS navigation and in-car video systems. A 25% restocking fee will be charged on special order products, including appliances. These fees apply unless the item is defective or damaged, you received the wrong item, or the fee is prohibited by law.


how about restocking fees etc when you buy from best buy

Regarding Costco and Amazon.com selling 6020s.... I believe it was Cylon 6 (the hot one) that said..."something has changed."

who's cylon 6 and what you mean? something has changed?

Jim was making an obscure cross-reference to the TV series "Battlestar Gallactica". Cylon number 6 (of twelve models) was one of the characters in the show.

it's interesting to see that Costco has only 20 units as of 1:50pm EST. Guess how long they will last this time. According to my observation they sold at least 250 units of 5010 in May.

it's interesting to see that Costco has only 20 units as of 1:50pm EST. Guess how long they will last this time. According to my observation they sold at least 250 units of 5010 in May.

The 2 Costco's near me still had 5010's on the floor 3 weeks ago

quick question, is there a way on the 5020 to display the information on screen of what is being outputted? Such as 1080p/24? i am curious as to if there is a way to see when the TV is displaying the 1080p/24 and some other things.

:)I got my 111 last Thursday. I have been running Evangelos's break in disc almost constantly since then. Watched 2 blu ray movies on it this weekend. The picture just blows you away even without being calibrated yet.
I watched National Treasure II first on my Samsung LCD which is actually very nice, picture was excellent. Then watched the same movie on the Pioneer and must say there was so much more detail,very discernible difference. This set really has a wow factor. If you are on the fence about buying this, jump now, worth every penny.:D

:)I got my 111 last Thursday. I have been running Evangelos's break in disc almost constantly since then. Watched 2 blu ray movies on it this weekend. The picture just blows you away even without being calibrated yet.
I watched National Treasure II first on my Samsung LCD which is actually very nice, picture was excellent. Then watched the same movie on the Pioneer and must say there was so much more detail,very discernible difference. This set really has a wow factor. If you are on the fence about buying this, jump now, worth every penny.:D

Will we be seeing some pictures very soon?:)

This has been alluded to before, but I have a question about channel configuration. I have cable and one over-the-air digital station. Up until now, I've used an A-B switch to go back and forth between cable and an antenna. Since I got the 111, I've tried the A-B switch and a splitter, but every time I try to program the digital channels, it either keeps the QAM cable channels or the one over-the-air station. I can't keep both! (Even though the manual says, "and/or cable and antenna").

Has anyone had any luck with that? Otherwise, I'm calling Pioneer tomorrow. Thanks!
I can 'feel' your pain. Right now, (while waiting patiently for the 10G), because I live in a private residence, and not an apartment, I'm enjoying analog OTA PIP via an ancient Somy XBR. This is really nice since I can switch between the two displays while independantly scrolling either one.
However, on page 70 of the Elite 151FD's manual states that viewing from two independant OTA sources is not possible. Additionally, on the same page is a WARNING that any attemp to do so would likely lead to IR.
Additionally, the 51S has only one ATSC tuner, which means after 2009, dual OTA, (as described, above), is not possible.
Further, Pioneer, Sony, Samsung, etc, have redefined what is ment by PIP, namely PIP is possible but only one direct OTA source is permitted, this the other has to be from a DVR, etc.
After 2009 to have dual OTA PIP, you would have to have two ATSC tuners in the plasma or have one ATSC tuner in the plasma PLUS suscribe to cable HD for the other.
That being said, one possibility would to have the OTA split and send one coax to the Elite, the other coax would go to a terrestial tuner, (such an Samsung or LG or the DVR-LX70D HDD recorder). From the tuner, then run HDMI or component as second source to the plasma.
I'm not certain, but I don't believe you can enjoy dual OTA reception, (as described, above), by using a single remote, (like the Harmony 890), but you'll probably have to use two.
G

This has been alluded to before, but I have a question about channel configuration. I have cable and one over-the-air digital station. Up until now, I've used an A-B switch to go back and forth between cable and an antenna. Since I got the 111, I've tried the A-B switch and a splitter, but every time I try to program the digital channels, it either keeps the QAM cable channels or the one over-the-air station. I can't keep both! (Even though the manual says, "and/or cable and antenna").

Has anyone had any luck with that? Otherwise, I'm calling Pioneer tomorrow. Thanks!

What I did was, scan analog cable channels then disconnect cable when digital channels are scanned. You must let it complete both scans (analog and digital). Then go into setup, set for antenna Leave antenna off for analog antenna scan and connect for digital OTA channels. Put OTA in one a/b input and cable in the other. It took me quite a while to accomplish this. If I am not clear and it doesn't work for you let me know and I will more closely review my steps. Pioneer told me it could not be done this way, said I would have to scan Ota and cable each time I switched.:eek:

Huh? The things I listed are RS232C commands that are available for the 6020FD. However, I have not found a way to save any of the commands so that they work outside of the SM.


have you tried making a change, then hitting the select button? this works on most Hitachi's, and Panasonics

They said that shipping is free. However, do they come back and try to charge a shipping insurance fee like some Internet retailers? Also, how was your experience with them?

They said that shipping is free. However, do they come back and try to charge a shipping insurance fee like some Internet retailers? Also, how was your experience with them?

Absolutly not!!
I bought my 6020 from them and I can't say enought good stuff about Robert! Very professional. You will not regret buying from him. You can take that to the Bank.


Oh, and by the way.
WAR DAMN EAGLE!!

Just noticed this in the Gizmodo review

"The PRO-111FD measured a Gamma of 1.91. The 2007 Elite model had the ability for a calibrator to correct Gamma errors with special software; Pioneer appears to have dropped the feature in this year’s Elite plasma."

Notice they are talking about ELITES not the 5020 or 6020. Are they talking about ISF calibration modes only here?

Does anyone else have any information to confirm if this is true?

Just noticed this in the Gizmodo review

"The PRO-111FD measured a Gamma of 1.91. The 2007 Elite model had the ability for a calibrator to correct Gamma errors with special software; Pioneer appears to have dropped the feature in this year’s Elite plasma."

Notice they are talking about ELITES not the 5020 or 6020. Are they talking about ISF calibration modes only here?

Does anyone else have any information to confirm if this is true?9-point gamma correction is available with the 9G Elites. You can use ControlCal to access that feature. I'm not sure what's going on with Gary lately, but his review is kind of scary. How can he say "This is an improvement over the 2007 Pioneer model, which tended to crush dark and light parts of the image" and in the very next sentence say "The PRO-111FD measured a Gamma of 1.91"???? A 1.91 gamma is horrible.

They said that shipping is free. However, do they come back and try to charge a shipping insurance fee like some Internet retailers? Also, how was your experience with them?
You will not get a better retailer who is so customer friendly like VE. I have ordered my 151FD from them. Very smooth buying experience.

Absolutly not!!
I bought my 6020 from them and I can't say enought good stuff about Robert! Very professional. You will not regret buying from him. You can take that to the Bank.


Oh, and by the way.
WAR DAMN EAGLE!!
Did you get any assistance from VE regarding the buzz issue

[QUOTE=chadmak09;14228611].......

Does the PRO-151FD save setting for each input? I know the 6020 only does this for standard mode but does the Elite do it for all?

No.

I read a post where someone was talking about the "elite color filter for enhansed contrast in bright environments" that the elites have and the non-elites don't. I did not see this on the specs for the elite from page one of this thread. Is this true?


The 8G and 9g elites do have a slightly different bonded filter than the regular Kuro models.

I have seen a few posts about the standard def processing on the elites being superior to the processing on the non-elites. Do the elites really have better processing?

They use the same processor.

With the 8th Gen's the elites had slightly deeper blacks due to a filter, the blacks on the non-elites and elites this year are the same correct?

The 1080p 8G models had slightly higher contrast then the 768p models. Yes, the 9G Kuro and Kuro Elite models should have the same black levels.

Did you get any assistance from VE regarding the buzz issue
I never asked for assistance. I decided that using Powersave mode2 while I am surfing the net took care of the buzz during internet use. The loss of brightness does not bother me one bit while surfing the net (mainly going to this forum and Ebay.) And while I am watching programming the sound drowns out the buzz unless there is a bright silent scene and I have kinda gotten used to it and it doesn't bother me that much anymore.
The Set that I got is Pixel Perfect.
I decided that asking for a trade-in would not be in my best interest because there is always a posibility that the replacement set could be damaged during transit, could have a dead pixel or two, and may also buzz. And there is always the fact that shipping the TV back takes time and I do not want to have to do without a TV for a week or two.

Absolutly not!!
I bought my 6020 from them and I can't say enought good stuff about Robert! Very professional. You will not regret buying from him. You can take that to the Bank.


Oh, and by the way.
WAR DAMN EAGLE!!

+1

Does anyone have any experience purchasing from MacMall? I'm looking to get a 6020 and they seem to have a price that can't be beat, which makes me question perhaps their reputation and whether or not they are truly an authorized dealer.

Does anyone have any experience purchasing from MacMall? I'm looking to get a 6020 and they seem to have a price that can't be beat, which makes me question perhaps their reputation and whether or not they are truly an authorized dealer.

Just call Pioneer and ask them if they are authorized or not. 1 800 421 1404

Just call Pioneer and ask them if they are authorized or not. 1 800 421 1404

Though Pioneer's phone chain is a bit annoying, I did find out (despite them saying that they were) that they are NOT an authorized dealer.

Thanks for the heads up!

Publically traded company, co-founded in 1987 by it's current CEO and President, Frank F. Khulusi) :

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AMALL

They have three main sites:
pcmall.com (where it's $120 more than macmall.com)
macmall.com
onsale.com (where it's $90 less than macmall.com, BTW...)

All of which are based out of their corporate HQ at:
2555 West 190th Street
Torrance, CA 90504

They also have a retail stores, at their Corporate HQ above, on Wilshire Blvd. in Santa Monica, CA., and at their distribution warehouse in Memphis, TN.

Back in the early 90's, when I was a certified Macintosh repair technician, I interviewed for a job with them for the Santa Monica store (was already doing a lot of on-site install/repair work for their entertainment industry customers by referral)...

All of the above said, the price is A LOT lower than I've seen anywhere (even from forum sponsors), so I've got to assume it's a pricing error and the order will be canceled and never fulfilled...


Does anyone have any experience purchasing from MacMall? I'm looking to get a 6020 and they seem to have a price that can't be beat, which makes me question perhaps their reputation and whether or not they are truly an authorized dealer.

Though Pioneer's phone chain is a bit annoying, I did find out (despite them saying that they were) that they are NOT an authorized dealer.

Thanks for the heads up!

I am authorized to tell you they do not need authorization to sell a new product.

Your warranty is with the manufacturer.

Paul

Can anyone who has received their PRO-111FD / PDP-6020 / PRO-151FD measure the spacing of the wall-mount attachment holes on the back of the panel, and also provide the distance for the bottom holes from the bottom of the panel? I'm in the process of mounting my PRO-930HD above the fireplace (that is never used, so heat/soot isn't an issue) and doing in-wall wiring; but, intend to replace it with one of the above when I recover from the $8K new Heat/AC system I just had installed and want to get the wall portion of the mounting bracket and wiring in the right place...

TIA!!

Is it just me or isn't it about time that this thread becomes a sticky??

Is it just me or isn't it about time that this thread becomes a sticky??

That's what I said a month ago!

No sticky love for one of the fastest growing threads on AVS.:confused:

OK, I will ask for a THIRD time since no one has responded..

is there a way on the 5020 to display the information on screen of what is being outputted? Such as 1080p/24? i am curious as to if there is a way to see when the TV is displaying the 1080p/24 and some other things.

That's what I said a month ago!

No sticky love for one of the fastest growing threads on AVS.:confused:

If we post enough no need for a sticky lol

OK, I will ask for a THIRD time since no one has responded..

is there a way on the 5020 to display the information on screen of what is being outputted? Such as 1080p/24? i am curious as to if there is a way to see when the TV is displaying the 1080p/24 and some other things.


The only way I know of is to go into PC mode. (i learned that from Peet by the way)
Video mode will not.

Is there a way to get rid of black bars at top and bottom when watching WS format DVDs? I watched LOTR sourced from Philips 5982 @ 480p and Cinema mode on 5020 which gave smaller bars. Full mode gives bigger bars. If upconverted to 1080p then Cinema mode is not available and big bars don't go away. I am using D-Nice's settings of Movie. Am I missing something?

Am I missing something?You might be.

Why do you want to get rid of the black bars that allow you to see the film in it's natural aspect ratio without distortion or cropping?

If you are new to black bars and aspect ratios, check the link at the bottom of my post.

what is the difference between PC mode and Video mode? i would have guessed PC mode is only for computer hook ups...

what is the difference between PC mode and Video mode? i would have guessed PC mode is only for computer hook ups...

You would not want to watch in PC mode. But if you are wondering about a source you can switch over that mode.

I can still be hooked up via hdmi correct? also if i switch to PC mode to view the output the tv is displaying, do i hit the display button as i would in video mode?

You might be.

Why do you want to get rid of the black bars that allow you to see the film in it's natural aspect ratio without distortion or cropping?

If you are new to black bars and aspect ratios, check the link at the bottom of my post.

I feel like it is a waste of the TV screen. A completely filled picture looks better than with those annoying bars.

But looks like there is no choice. BTW I get the impression that HD-DVD/BRay resolved this issue. Is that right?

Anyway, I should have got a 6020 instead of 5020. Anybody wants to swap?

I feel like it is a waste of the TV screen. A completely filled picture looks better than with those annoying bars.

But looks like there is no choice. BTW I get the impression that HD-DVD/BRay resolved this issue. Is that right?



we're still on this? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

go to http://widescreenadvocate.org/whatis.html

I feel like it is a waste of the TV screen. A completely filled picture looks better than with those annoying bars.

But looks like there is no choice. BTW I get the impression that HD-DVD/BRay resolved this issue. Is that right?

Anyway, I should have got a 6020 instead of 5020. Anybody wants to swap?

It's a waste of a movie when you butcher it with pan and scan. If you like a full screen, use the zoom button on movies that are not filmed in 1:85film.

There is nothing to "fix" and BR/HD DVD maintains the originial aspect ratios. Thankfully.

we're still on this? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

go to http://widescreenadvocate.org/whatis.html

Thanks David for pointing out that I am still behind on some facts! Did not feel the need to know earlier. With $3K TV, I need to know why am I wasting 10% or so of it when watching movies. Also kicking myself for not getting 60" in the first place.
Take it easy.

With $3K TV, I need to know why am I wasting 10% or so of it when watching movies. You ask if you were missing something. I suggested that you read about aspect ratio using the link at the bottom of my post. It's still a good idea. ;)

The bottom line is that you can use your display any way that you want. :)

Can anyone who has received their PRO-111FD / PDP-6020 / PRO-151FD measure the spacing of the wall-mount attachment holes on the back of the panel, and also provide the distance for the bottom holes from the bottom of the panel? I'm in the process of mounting my PRO-930HD above the fireplace (that is never used, so heat/soot isn't an issue) and doing in-wall wiring; but, intend to replace it with one of the above when I recover from the $8K new Heat/AC system I just had installed and want to get the wall portion of the mounting bracket and wiring in the right place...

TIA!!

If no one's offered this yet, these are those measurements on the 151:
Holes are 33-15/32" apart horizontally, o.c.
Holes are 19-11/16" apart vertically, o.c.
Bottom holes are 7-13/32" from the bottom of the panel, o.c.

It's a waste of a movie when you butcher it with pan and scan. If you like a full screen, use the zoom button on movies that are not filmed in 1:85film.

There is nothing to "fix" and BR/HD DVD maintains the originial aspect ratios. Thankfully.


On my PRO-1150, there is no zoom and crop function to "fix" his needs. Once you're running HD signal, "zoom" will actually "zoom and stretch".

I don't know about the 9G panels. I assume it's the same situation.

Most Best Buys definitely don't send hi-def to their screens, it's usually 480p at best unless it's got the Blu-ray player right there with the screen. Still, it gives you an idea how the SD processing will be. :P

Actually, EVERY best buy sends HD signals to most, if not all of the TVs that are on display. We have to occasionally put some open-item TVs on DVD players, but other than those every one is hooked up to either a blu ray player or a company wide HD stream. Of course it's not of the same quality as blu ray as all of the problems associated with compressed HD signals apply for our stream as well. So it's on par with what you would see with HD cable or HD satellite. And D-Nice, what's wrong with the ps3 as a blu ray player? Of all the players I've dealt with from working at two different retailers, the ps3 is by far the most fully featured and best performing. I mean, I don't know about you, but I prefer NOT waiting as much as 1 minute for even a HINT that my player is turning on, plus as much as another 3 minutes to get into the disc's menu. I also don't like the idea of having to get a new player every time they update the blu ray spec. Just saying...

What I did was, scan analog cable channels then disconnect cable when digital channels are scanned. You must let it complete both scans (analog and digital). Then go into setup, set for antenna Leave antenna off for analog antenna scan and connect for digital OTA channels. Put OTA in one a/b input and cable in the other. It took me quite a while to accomplish this. If I am not clear and it doesn't work for you let me know and I will more closely review my steps. Pioneer told me it could not be done this way, said I would have to scan Ota and cable each time I switched.:eek:

Did your process get you digital by antenna only? I'm trying to get my cable's digital QAM channels PLUS OTA digital. So cable would be analog + digital and antenna would be digital.

Before calling Pioneer I just went to Vann's (where I bought the 111) and asked. They told me to get a cable set-top-box and connect it via HDMI, leaving my antenna in the RF input. Or get an RF Modulator and connect the antenna by whatever means the Modulator has (most likely S-Video) out to the TV, thus having separate inputs. But I still don't know if the 111 will let me program that way.

I'll try your way first. Thank you!

All of the above said, the price is A LOT lower than I've seen anywhere (even from forum sponsors), so I've got to assume it's a pricing error and the order will be canceled and never fulfilled...
I placed an order through OnSale.com with an additional 2% back through cash back program and extra 1 year warranty through my credit card. I will report when/if they ship the TV. I was going to order the Elite originally, but for $1,500 less it's way better deal for 6020FD instead.

ask434 dont want to sound rude but you should read up in regards to aspect ratios the majority of people i belive know widescreen is better, As long as the original source was filmed in ws and not modify in any way. actually BD/HDVD are more MORE widescreen then dvds dvd are usualy 1:85:1 and bd/hd are 2:35:1 their are more aspect ratios but these are the most common

"btw i get the inpression that hd-dvd/blu ray ressoved this issue"

theirs no issues with black bars


I feel like it is a waste of the TV screen. A completely filled picture looks better than with those annoying bars.

But looks like there is no choice. BTW I get the impression that HD-DVD/BRay resolved this issue. Is that right?

Anyway, I should have got a 6020 instead of 5020. Anybody wants to swap?




highheater & D-nice gary said that the 2007 pioneer model tended to crush dark and light parts of the image not towards the PRO-111 i read that part carefully

9-point gamma correction is available with the 9G Elites. You can use ControlCal to access that feature. I'm not sure what's going on with Gary lately, but his review is kind of scary. How can he say "This is an improvement over the 2007 Pioneer model, which tended to crush dark and light parts of the image" and in the very next sentence say "The PRO-111FD measured a Gamma of 1.91"???? A 1.91 gamma is horrible.

lukfilm congrats on the purchase owning a fine pioneer kuro tv and i want to take a moment to just let you know that the non elite is handi capped with reduced ajustments and Service menu are still an issue, reason i mentioned this is because some buyers buy the non elite but are un ware of the changes pioneer did with the 9g. until its too late and they purchased 9g non elite

onsale doesnt seem to have very good selling/buisness results have you considerd asking forum sponsers for prices? or to see if they would work with you?
i wonder with on sale and hows it might affect pioneers warranty
because pioneer might seem picky to who authorized and whos not.

once again sorry if i sounded like i attacked you and thus i re edited my post, where ever you purchase your kuro good luck

I placed an order through OnSale.com with an additional 2% back through cash back program and extra 1 year warranty through my credit card. I will report when/if they ship the TV. I was going to order the Elite originally, but for $1,500 less it's way better deal for 6020FD instead.

lukfilm dont want to burst your bubble but did you knew that the non elite is handi capped with reduced ajustments? and Service menu are still an issue?
also did you bother asking forum sponsers for prices? i wonder on sale hows their pioneer going to validate your warranty .... :rolleyes:

LOL @ the warranty issue, my set will be under warranty. Like I said, it's a $1,500 difference between this price and Elite price (and still $500 below sponsor price on 6020FD) which in my eyes is not worth such a gap in pricing. Like I said, I was going to get Elite, but the price gap is too big. Anyway, it will probably be canceled anyway due to price mistake.

lukfilm dont want to burst your bubble but did you knew that the non elite is handi capped with reduced ajustments? and Service menu are still an issue?
also did you bother asking forum sponsers for prices? i wonder on sale hows their pioneer going to validate your warranty .... :rolleyes:

Geez, the guy just ordered his new TV. What's all the attitude about? How about just "Congrats on the purchase- I hope it works out for you!"

LOL @ the warranty issue, my set will be under warranty. Like I said, it's a $1,500 difference between this price and Elite price (and still $500 below sponsor price on 6020FD) which in my eyes is not worth such a gap in pricing. Like I said, I was going to get Elite, but the price gap is too big. Anyway, it will probably be canceled anyway due to price mistake.

Yea I would not worry about the warranty, what most are wondering today is if they will honor that price. Please let us know and good luck!

Does anyone have any experience purchasing from MacMall? I'm looking to get a 6020 and they seem to have a price that can't be beat, which makes me question perhaps their reputation and whether or not they are truly an authorized dealer.


They are not looking good in reseller ratings either <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/MacMall)

They are not looking good in reseller ratings either <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/MacMall)

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Onsale
Onsale is the same company as MacMall, as I mentioned above I am all for competition as long as they deliver

They are not looking good in reseller ratings either <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/MacMall)

Get it from OnSale then, much better rating and cheaper pricing - http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Onsale

LukFilm, congrats and good luck to you. hope it would work for you. after reading reviews like one below I personally would never order anything more expensive than $1 from such sellers. You might waste your time with these guys. here is one of reviews:

OnSale.com, I assume it is the same company as PC Mall, Mac Mall and Club Mac. They all have the same item numbers and same web design. Matter of fact,the billing and email are from PC Mall.

On 10/19/07, I ordered a Samsung HLT5087S for $1,030 including shipping with OnSale.com. It is a about $300 less than the lowest price I saw any where.

On 10/22/07, OnSale.com stated that "we currently don’t have an update of when we are be getting the item from the
manufacturer. It might take another 2 weeks to get an update from them." But all four web sites still continue listing the same item as in stock and will ship next business day.

On 11/5/07, I received a telephone call from OnSale.com advising me that they still do not have an expected delivery date from Samsung to their central warehouse. Furthermore, in order for me to purchase this item at $1,030. It must be shiped from their central warehouse. But OnSale.com will be able to ship me the TV from their affiliate/assoicates' warehouse( PC Mall? Mac Mall? Club Mac ? or who ever their associates are?) for $1,495 plus shipping. Well, I declined their offer, told them I would wait.

On 11/7/07, I was informed by onsale.com via telephone that they have to cancel my order since Samsung is no longer shipping to their central warehouse???? Then, received an email stating that I've requested the cancellation of the order. It appears to me that this is a classic case of bait and switch. Anyway, I've filed a compliant with BBB in their local area.

ask434 dont want to sound rude but step up your game even my 10yr sister knows widescreen is better, As long as the original source was filmed in ws and not modify in any way. LOL actually BD/HDVD are more MORE widescreen then dvds!!! dvd are usualy 1:85:1 and bd/hd are 2:35:1 their are more aspect ratios but these are the most common



Hey man, give the guy a break. Glad to know your sister is a smart kid, but in dealing with different tv brands I've noticed each has different names or settings for dealing with aspect ratios and derived stretch modes. The OP was wandering if there was something he might have missed, and that is a legit question. For example I'll never forget my friend's Toshiba big screen: to this day we couldn't figure out which was the true 16x9 mode, that's how strangely they named all the options.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the enlightment!:D:D
""LOL actually BD/HDVD are more MORE widescreen then dvds!!! dvd are usualy 1:85:1 and bd/hd are 2:35:1 their are more aspect ratios but these are the most common""

lukfilm sorry if my post attacked you i should of better writen my post sorry:o

I HAVE RE EDIT MY POST pleaes forgive for my rudeness

progprog attitude? ok so it came out wrong i should of added "congrats but did you know about the handi etc over the elite", and because what onsale history report such as the other poster i quoted, and seeing how mostly everywhere pioneer will validate warranty but when a company is kind of fishy it brings statitcs pretty low.

Geez, the guy just ordered his new TV. What's all the attitude about? How about just "Congrats on the purchase- I hope it works out for you!"

LukFilm, congrats and good luck to you. hope it would work for you. after reading reviews like one below I personally would never order anything more expensive than $1 from such sellers. You might waste your time with these guys. here is one of reviews:

OnSale.com, I assume it is the same company as PC Mall, Mac Mall and Club Mac. They all have the same item numbers and same web design. Matter of fact,the billing and email are from PC Mall.

On 10/19/07, I ordered a Samsung HLT5087S for $1,030 including shipping with OnSale.com. It is a about $300 less than the lowest price I saw any where.

On 10/22/07, OnSale.com stated that "we currently don’t have an update of when we are be getting the item from the
manufacturer. It might take another 2 weeks to get an update from them." But all four web sites still continue listing the same item as in stock and will ship next business day.

On 11/5/07, I received a telephone call from OnSale.com advising me that they still do not have an expected delivery date from Samsung to their central warehouse. Furthermore, in order for me to purchase this item at $1,030. It must be shiped from their central warehouse. But OnSale.com will be able to ship me the TV from their affiliate/assoicates' warehouse( PC Mall? Mac Mall? Club Mac ? or who ever their associates are?) for $1,495 plus shipping. Well, I declined their offer, told them I would wait.

On 11/7/07, I was informed by onsale.com via telephone that they have to cancel my order since Samsung is no longer shipping to their central warehouse???? Then, received an email stating that I've requested the cancellation of the order. It appears to me that this is a classic case of bait and switch. Anyway, I've filed a compliant with BBB in their local area.

No problem, let's see what happens :)

Don't think this has been posted yet but Pioneer apparently removed the SR+ feature. For those that dont know what SR+ is, it was used to connect Pioneer equipment to Pioneer equipment for extra control and display features. For example I had a pro-110 before exchanging it for the pro-111, I had it connected to my VSX-94 and would get on screen volume display and it would show other info from the receiver on the TV (sound fields, sound decoder mode etc) without having to use HDMI Control. Connected to the pro-111 it does nothing even though there is a port called SR on the back of the pro-111. Confirmed with Pioneer over the phone that the + feature was removed so it is basically just a control connection now (using the Tv remote for other components). Pioneer was nice enough to refund me the price of the cable, but wanted to give you all a heads up.

Does anyone have any experience purchasing from MacMall? I'm looking to get a 6020 and they seem to have a price that can't be beat, which makes me question perhaps their reputation and whether or not they are truly an authorized dealer.

They are not looking good in reseller ratings either <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/MacMall)

I have never heard of Macmall but be careful. I almost ordered from a place call pricemad a while back until I asked around about them. Thank goodness I didn't. I heard that they have a tendancy of luring you in with a great price on a certian TV, then once you have paid with your credit card they call you and say that the product is out of stock, "But they have XXXX in stock and it is just as good". From what I have heard from most dealers and people who know what they are talking about is if it seems too good to be true it probably is. If thier price is much less than the forum sponsors then I would ask myself how they are making a profit, becasue it might be by ripping people off. You never know.
Anyway, I hope it all works out for you, good luck getting your Kuro!

9-point gamma correction is available with the 9G Elites. You can use ControlCal to access that feature. I'm not sure what's going on with Gary lately, but his review is kind of scary. How can he say "This is an improvement over the 2007 Pioneer model, which tended to crush dark and light parts of the image" and in the very next sentence say "The PRO-111FD measured a Gamma of 1.91"???? A 1.91 gamma is horrible.
D-Nice

When do you think the 9mm panels will become available....are those the same as the 100%black level plasmas that pioneer is boasting of

also is it true that the 9mm panels are gonna come only in 50inch

Just noticed this in the Gizmodo review

"The PRO-111FD measured a Gamma of 1.91. The 2007 Elite model had the ability for a calibrator to correct Gamma errors with special software; Pioneer appears to have dropped the feature in this year’s Elite plasma."

Notice they are talking about ELITES not the 5020 or 6020. Are they talking about ISF calibration modes only here?

Does anyone else have any information to confirm if this is true?

9-point gamma correction is available with the 9G Elites. You can use ControlCal to access that feature. I'm not sure what's going on with Gary lately, but his review is kind of scary. How can he say "This is an improvement over the 2007 Pioneer model, which tended to crush dark and light parts of the image" and in the very next sentence say "The PRO-111FD measured a Gamma of 1.91"???? A 1.91 gamma is horrible.

I was over my friends house last night viewing his 151. I did notice the blocking with the lights out but no during content. I could find no banding or horizontal bleeding from white lettering etc.l The screen has fantastic blacks, contrast and content.

Toying with Pure mode I found low to low and mid-low too blue. I felt vindicated when I came home. With the lights out, you can see the screen but it is very very good.

The black level adjustments steps were a bit large. +1 added default, +2 washed out the picture.

My primary concern remained was the facial tones. They seemed too white.
Could this be an effect from deviations in the gamma tracking?

- Rich

Does anyone know if costco is going to be selling the 5020 along with the 6020?

IN another thread on AVS forum of the 141 vs. 151 content, someone said the 141 was starting to show up in their dealers system for a MSRP of $6500.

Is there any additional information available for the 141?

Does anyone know if the 151 or 6020 stand will work with the 141?

Are availability or updated features lists information available for the 141 over the basic stuff we have all be reading about?

Sponsors, please chime in.

Does anyone know if costco is going to be selling the 5020 along with the 6020?

the models sold by costco are always hit and miss, especially those offered online. depends on how bad pioneer/pioneer distributors need to push products. you will probably see them on there sometime but when and for how long they are available is just a guessing game.

Please, not another "expert" who thinks that they have to tell me how to watch television. If you really studied the issue, you would realize that a letterbox format with bars results in LESS total picture content. Hint: count the active (those not used for the bars) pixels and you will realize that less is not more.

DelJ



You might be.

Why do you want to get rid of the black bars that allow you to see the film in it's natural aspect ratio without distortion or cropping?

If you are new to black bars and aspect ratios, check the link at the bottom of my post.

You prefer using all the pixels on the tv, which is full screen and does feels better, at the cost of cropping the edges of the movie or stretched aspect ratio.

Others prefer sacrificing the usage of the top and bottom of the tv so they can see the complete picture, the sides, at the correct aspect ratio, just like at the movie theatre.

Its really just a personal preference. Watch how you want.

You prefer using all the pixels on the tv, which is full screen and does feels better, at the cost of cropping the edges of the movie or stretched aspect ratio.

Others prefer sacrificing the usage of the top and bottom of the tv so they can see the complete picture, the sides, at the correct aspect ratio, just like at the movie theatre.

Its really just a personal preference. Watch how you want.

100% agree, I love widescreen even with the bars on the top and bottom and I hate when the bars are on the sides, it just bugs me. But, I know more people who prefer the bars on the sides, it is just one of those things.

the models sold by costco are always hit and miss, especially those offered online. depends on how bad pioneer/pioneer distributors need to push products. you will probably see them on there sometime but when and for how long they are available is just a guessing game.


Costco had the 6020 online this weekend for a couple of days with a decent price, not the best but not too bad either, a little above the forum sponsors.

Costco had the 6020 online this weekend for a couple of days with a decent price, not the best but not too bad either, a little above the forum sponsors.

I saw them online as well, did anyone see them in a Costco store this weekend?

You prefer using all the pixels on the tv, which is full screen and does feels better, at the cost of cropping the edges of the movie or stretched aspect ratio.

Others prefer sacrificing the usage of the top and bottom of the tv so they can see the complete picture, the sides, at the correct aspect ratio, just like at the movie theatre.

Its really just a personal preference. Watch how you want.

100% agree, I love widescreen even with the bars on the top and bottom and I hate when the bars are on the sides, it just bugs me. But, I know more people who prefer the bars on the sides, it is just one of those things.

That's how I prefer to watch also, at the original aspect ratio. With a plasma, care would need to be exercised because of possible burn-in, but it can be done. Lots of us are used to letterbox bars top and bottom because of our 4:3 sets; the sides would be okay if the sidebar color isn't too distracting and the PQ is really good. Or, if the TV's screen sizes can scale without distorting, that works too.

Please, not another "expert" who thinks that they have to tell me how to watch television. If you really studied the issue...


We have studied the issue. Please don't assume that the differences in preferences are due to a failure to study an issue.

-R

Did your process get you digital by antenna only? I'm trying to get my cable's digital QAM channels PLUS OTA digital. So cable would be analog + digital and antenna would be digital.

Before calling Pioneer I just went to Vann's (where I bought the 111) and asked. They told me to get a cable set-top-box and connect it via HDMI, leaving my antenna in the RF input. Or get an RF Modulator and connect the antenna by whatever means the Modulator has (most likely S-Video) out to the TV, thus having separate inputs. But I still don't know if the 111 will let me program that way.

I'll try your way first. Thank you!

No I only scanned lower channels 1-99 so my daughter can watch without powering up my surround. I use a SA 8300 dvr for regular and HD channels via cable, then hdmi to 151 . I would be interested to see if you can get it to work ( QAM & OTA ) on the tuner.

LOL @ the warranty issue, my set will be under warranty. Like I said, it's a $1,500 difference between this price and Elite price (and still $500 below sponsor price on 6020FD) which in my eyes is not worth such a gap in pricing. Like I said, I was going to get Elite, but the price gap is too big. Anyway, it will probably be canceled anyway due to price mistake.

I'm told that Onsale.com is offering a very attractive price on their 6020s because Best Buy is selling to them at an appreciable discount.

Problem is that, at least as of July 7th, Pioneer does not recognize this vendor as an authorized Pio dealer. Hence, warranty issues could crop up, as have been much discussed on this thread. Good luck!

100% agree, I love widescreen even with the bars on the top and bottom and I hate when the bars are on the sides, it just bugs me. But, I know more people who prefer the bars on the sides, it is just one of those things.

I agree and love the cinescope widescreen too. One of the great things about the Kuro, I have found, is the dramatic effect you get watching a 2.35:1 movie in a darkened room. The black bars are totally black and essentially disappear along with the black frame of the TV. It's like that big wide picture just floats in the darkness! Obviously, as prepress noted, you have to take precautions to prevent burn-in, but that minor inconvenience pales next to the beauty of the true widescreen feel you get with the Kuro.

I saw them online as well, did anyone see them in a Costco store this weekend?
The 6020 is only available online. They are again available. I just called Pioneer and was told Costco is an authorized dealer only for the 5010. The Pioneer warranty is not valid for the 6020.

LukFilm, congrats and good luck to you. hope it would work for you. after reading reviews like one below I personally would never order anything more expensive than $1 from such sellers. You might waste your time with these guys. here is one of reviews:

OnSale.com, I assume it is the same company as PC Mall, Mac Mall and Club Mac. They all have the same item numbers and same web design. Matter of fact,the billing and email are from PC Mall.

On 10/19/07, I ordered a Samsung HLT5087S for $1,030 including shipping with OnSale.com. It is a about $300 less than the lowest price I saw any where.

On 10/22/07, OnSale.com stated that "we currently don’t have an update of when we are be getting the item from the
manufacturer. It might take another 2 weeks to get an update from them." But all four web sites still continue listing the same item as in stock and will ship next business day.

On 11/5/07, I received a telephone call from OnSale.com advising me that they still do not have an expected delivery date from Samsung to their central warehouse. Furthermore, in order for me to purchase this item at $1,030. It must be shiped from their central warehouse. But OnSale.com will be able to ship me the TV from their affiliate/assoicates' warehouse( PC Mall? Mac Mall? Club Mac ? or who ever their associates are?) for $1,495 plus shipping. Well, I declined their offer, told them I would wait.

On 11/7/07, I was informed by onsale.com via telephone that they have to cancel my order since Samsung is no longer shipping to their central warehouse???? Then, received an email stating that I've requested the cancellation of the order. It appears to me that this is a classic case of bait and switch. Anyway, I've filed a compliant with BBB in their local area.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Buyer Beware.

That's how I prefer to watch also, at the original aspect ratio. With a plasma, care would need to be exercised because of possible burn-in, but it can be done. Lots of us are used to letterbox bars top and bottom because of our 4:3 sets; the sides would be okay if the sidebar color isn't too distracting and the PQ is really good. Or, if the TV's screen sizes can scale without distorting, that works too.

Okay, while we're on this subject. I can't seem to get the 151 to stretch 4:3 material to "full" automatically. I watch enough 4:3 news content that I want the TV to stretch it so don't have to worry about BI. But the default stretch seems to be a Wide mode that progressively stretches, which I find kind of nauseating. Does anybody know how I can change that so it uses the evenly-stretched "full" instead?

I agree and love the cinescope widescreen too. One of the great things about the Kuro, I have found, is the dramatic effect you get watching a 2.35:1 movie in a darkened room. The black bars are totally black and essentially disappear along with the black frame of the TV. It's like that big wide picture just floats in the darkness! Obviously, as prepress noted, you have to take precautions to prevent burn-in, but that minor inconvenience pales next to the beauty of the true widescreen feel you get with the Kuro.

I have noticed that as well when watching the Kuro in our showroom. It is amazing that the blacks bars just disappear into the bezel. It is the only TV I have seen do that so far.

Please, not another "expert" who thinks that they have to tell me how to watch television. Pleased to meet you. :)

I don't recall ever telling you how to watch your television.

Enjoy.

If you really studied the issue, you would realize that a letterbox format with bars results in LESS total picture content. Hint: count the active (those not used for the bars) pixels and you will realize that less is not more.You're welcome to read about the differences between Anamorphic Widescreen and Letterbox by using the link at the bottom of my post.

You are free to make use of that information, or ignore it. Agian, it's your choice.:)

I have noticed that as well when watching the Kuro in our showroom. It is amazing that the blacks bars just disappear into the bezel. It is the only TV I have seen do that so far.
Me, too. My last TV was great, but you were always aware of the not-quite-black bars in the dark. The complete blackness of the Kuro raises the question for me: There's all this talk of 10g and what's coming next year, etc. I honestly don't see how black can get any blacker than matching the bezel! What will these new ones supposedly have or be able to do that would be worth waiting for?

Me, too. My last TV was great, but you were always aware of the not-quite-black bars in the dark. The complete blackness of the Kuro raises the question for me: There's all this talk of 10g and what's coming next year, etc. I honestly don't see how black can get any blacker than matching the bezel! What will these new ones supposedly have or be able to do that would be worth waiting for?

Not entirely sure on the 10G but Pioneer will find a way to make the blacks blacker, they always do.

It appears OnSale & the other related compaies have pulled the 6020 from their Websites. Hmmmm

LukFilm, did they contact you?

The 6020 is only available online. They are again available. I just called Pioneer and was told Costco is an authorized dealer only for the 5010. The Pioneer warranty is not valid for the 6020.
Hmm... Costco Canada {as usual:rolleyes:} only lists 1 TV online for plasma. No variety at all. Nice price you guys have there.

The 6020 is only available online. They are again available. I just called Pioneer and was told Costco is an authorized dealer only for the 5010. The Pioneer warranty is not valid for the 6020.

Recalling your conversation with Pioneer; did they ask you if you'd already bought a unit before giving you that information?

A_C

Recalling your conversation with Pioneer; did they ask you if you'd already bought a unit before giving you that information?

A_C

Are they allowed to ask you that question?

Hi
This may be a new guy question but is there a list somewhere of Canadian sponsors on AVS .I'm looking for the 6020 and have received all my info from here it's only right to give something back.

Pioneer has 0 chance of turning down your warranty just because you bought it at Costco. Absolutely ridiculous what the customer service is telling you.

Hi
This may be a new guy question but is there a list somewhere of Canadian sponsors on AVS .I'm looking for the 6020 and have received all my info from here it's only right to give something back.

All the sponsors are above and bottom of the pages. Dont know of any Canadian sponsors :(

Are they allowed to ask you that question?

I can’t think of any reason why not.

When I called to obtain warranty information, it was the first thing they asked. When I said 'No', the rep went on to inform me that the merchant I was considering buying a 5010 from (lcdtvs.com) was not a ‘Pioneer authorized dealer’ and that I’d have no warranty.

Subsequent reading in the 8G forum suggests that this simply isn’t true. (D_Nice has some very strong feelings on this matter)

Interestingly, when I called last week to obtain warranty service (I subsequently bought a 5010 from Amazon) they didn’t even ask where I bought the unit, or the serial number. They just referred me to an authorized repair partner. The service just said to have a copy of my sales receipt available and didn’t seem interested where I bough the unit.

I’m not sure what to conclude from all this, other than to assume they want to steer prospective buyers to their preferred dealers. I find the method however, just a bit misleading.

A_C

Basically every major CE manufacturer would like to disallow the factory warranty for purchases through unauthorized dealers, but I don't think they would actually try to enforce the policy unless it was a gray market product.

Costco is not authorized to sell the 6020FD, but I am sure Pioneer's warranty is likely OK.

-Robert

Agent-C

I think Pioneer is walking the tight rope between keeping their dealers happy, increasing sales, and not getting sued over not extending their warranty.

Besides, doesn't Costco extend their own warranty that's basically an exchange for a new set?

Pioneer has 0 chance of turning down your warranty just because you bought it at Costco. Absolutely ridiculous what the customer service is telling you.

What would your recourse be, specifically, if they did?

Would you sue them? - (3 to 6 months with a broken TV while you fight it out in Small Claims Court doesn't strike me as an attractive option).

Would you file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau? (BFD might be their attitude)

Would you file a complaint with the Attorney General? (This might ultimately get results... In the next millennium)

Lets face it, you're kind of at their mercy when it comes to warranty issues.

A_C

The 6020 is only available online. They are again available. I just called Pioneer and was told Costco is an authorized dealer only for the 5010. The Pioneer warranty is not valid for the 6020.

Dumb question: How is Costco (or other "non authorized" retailers) able to get TVs that Pioneer does not authorize them to sell? Does Pioneer just dump its TVs to a distributor that sells them to anybody? I don't want to restart the entire debate of whether or not Pioneer is obligated to honor its warranty, but this just seems strange. One would think that a company that wants to control the price and distribution of its product through threats of breaching the terms of its warranty support would put more effort into determining where the TVs are distributed. I can't possibly imagine that someplace like Costco would be getting their TVs from anywhere other than the regular Pioneer distribution channel, as the middleman fees would prevent them from offering any reasonable discounts on them.

Basically every major CE manufacturer would like to disallow the factory warranty for purchases through unauthorized dealers, but I don't think they would actually try to enforce the policy unless it was a gray market product.

Costco is not authorized to sell the 6020FD, but I am sure Pioneer's warranty is likely OK.

-RobertDidn't we have a HUGE discussion about this topic, with the verdict being that they HAVE to honor the warranty or you could sue them??
Edit: Or was that about the 250 mile elite rule... Or both?

What would your recourse be, specifically, if they did?

Would you sue them? - (3 to 6 months with a broken TV while you fight it out in Small Claims Court doesn't strike me as an attractive option).

Would you file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau? (BFD might be their attitude)

Would you file a complaint with the Attorney General? (This might ultimately get results... In the next millennium)

Lets face it, you're kind of at their mercy when it comes to warranty issues.

A_C

It would never come to this.

I can’t think of any reason why not.

When I called to obtain warranty information, it was the first thing they asked. When I said 'No', the rep went on to inform me that the merchant I was considering buying a 5010 from (lcdtvs.com) was not a ‘Pioneer authorized dealer’ and that I’d have no warranty.

Subsequent reading in the 8G forum suggests that this simply isn’t true. (D_Nice has some very strong feelings on this matter)

Interestingly, when I called last week to obtain warranty service (I subsequently bought a 5010 from Amazon) they didn’t even ask where I bought the unit, or the serial number. They just referred me to an authorized repair partner. The service just said to have a copy of my sales receipt available and didn’t seem interested where I bough the unit.

I’m not sure what to conclude from all this, other than to assume they want to steer prospective buyers to their preferred dealers. I find the method however, just a bit misleading.

A_C
I think this is probably true. Consumer rights' legislation in many states has narrowed the many loopholes that manufacturers used to use to escape warranty service. Remember when they used to try to deny coverage if you didn't "register" within x number of days? Some still try to say that, but they cannot deny coverage if you don't. It wouldn't surprise me if the same thing applies to their attempting to deny coverage based on the nature of their relationship with the seller. It may be an effort to steer customers to certain retailers, but it shouldn't affect the buyer's warranty contract with the manufacturer.

All the sponsors are above and bottom of the pages. Dont know of any Canadian sponsors :(

Would any sponsors be willing to ship up North :D

What would your recourse be, specifically, if they did?

Would you sue them? - (3 to 6 months with a broken TV while you fight it out in Small Claims Court doesn't strike me as an attractive option).

Would you file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau? (BFD might be their attitude)

Would you file a complaint with the Attorney General? (This might ultimately get results... In the next millennium)

Lets face it, you're kind of at their mercy when it comes to warranty issues.

A_C

Agree 100% just play by the rules and save yourself the hassle.

They are a good company. Just make sure you have a warranty on your Elite. If you didn't buy it from an authorized dealer then there is nothing to extend. I recommend purchasing the warranty with the set from the dealer as you do get a price break.
:)

It appears OnSale & the other related compaies have pulled the 6020 from their Websites. Hmmmm

LukFilm, did they contact you?

Yes, I was contacted to verify that I indeed placed the order. I was told that it will be shipped shortly. We'll see...

Good news for Pioneer Europe fans (specifically Sweden)....The 5090H (kinda the equivelant of the 5020) is actually better than 5020. There is no "Elite", and the 5090H has full adjustments and defeatable picture "enhancements", as well as some other "Elite" features. The rep said that Pio only makes one model and that they are all Elites. I think the point is that they don't have as much differentiation in their European lineup and the quality is quite good.:) I was shown the picture menu and the amount of adjustability was sick. Tweaking here I come!

Would any sponsors be willing to ship up North :D

Please remember that the warranty would not be valid in Canada :(

Dumb question: How is Costco (or other "non authorized" retailers) able to get TVs that Pioneer does not authorize them to sell? Does Pioneer just dump its TVs to a distributor that sells them to anybody?

Very good question. Maybe one of our dealers with good contacts should ask Pioneer that question since it is cannibalizing their sales.

Agent-C

I think Pioneer is walking the tight rope between keeping their dealers happy, increasing sales, and not getting sued over not extending their warranty.

Besides, doesn't Costco extend their own warranty that's basically an exchange for a new set?


Actually, Costco's warranty is far superior to Pio's, at least on the non-Elite.

From Costco's website promotion for the 6020:

"Costco extends manufacture warranty to 2 years
Returns accepted within 90 days from date of purchase"

Actually, Costco's warranty is far superior to Pio's, at least on the non-Elite.

From Costco's website promotion for the 6020:

"Costco extends manufacture warranty to 2 years
Returns accepted within 90 days from date of purchase"

0 years extended is still zero :(

Please remember that the warranty would not be valid in Canada :(

Theoretically, no, it would not be. However, I am sure that Pioneer has had to deal with TVs crossing borders before: people move all the time. Worst case scenario is driving the TV to a friend's place and getting it serviced from there. Best case is that the TV never needs servicing :)

Theoretically, no, it would not be. However, I am sure that Pioneer has had to deal with TVs crossing borders before: people move all the time. Worst case scenario is driving the TV to a friend's place and getting it serviced from there. Best case is that the TV never needs servicing :)

;)

Theoretically, no, it would not be.

All this discusion about warranties is theoretical. I'd like to see a thread started that actually discusses fullfilled warranty claims so we could find out who puts their money where their mouth is whether it be manufacturer (Pio, Panny), TV seller (Best Buy, Circuit City), or warranty seller (Mack).

If such a thread exists, please point me in that direction. Thanks.

All this discusion about warranties is theoretical. I'd like to see a thread started that actually discusses fullfilled warranty claims so we could find out who puts their money where their mouth is whether it be manufacturer (Pio, Panny), TV seller (Best Buy, Circuit City), or warranty seller (Mack).

If such a thread exists, please point me in that direction. Thanks.There was a large discussion about warranties in general called, "CPS or Mack". It has loads of useful information about warranties.
Found it http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1027267

Actually, Costco's warranty is far superior to Pio's, at least on the non-Elite.

From Costco's website promotion for the 6020:

"Costco extends manufacture warranty to 2 years
Returns accepted within 90 days from date of purchase"

0 years extended is still zero :(

Isn't the warranty already two years? Your quote doesn't say it extends the warranty by two years, so I would assume it extends a lesser warranty out to two.

The 90 return policy is the real selling point, IMHO. I would jump on it for that alone. In fact, if the 5020s show up there, I'd probably pick one up for my exercise room. Anybody know if they've sold those yet?

All this discusion about warranties is theoretical. I'd like to see a thread started that actually discusses fullfilled warranty claims so we could find out who puts their money where their mouth is whether it be manufacturer (Pio, Panny), TV seller (Best Buy, Circuit City), or warranty seller (Mack).

If such a thread exists, please point me in that direction. Thanks.

+1 Excellent suggestion.

However, I have not found a way to save any of the commands so that they work outside of the SM.

I think you mentioned earlier that there is a Save option in there, but you were afraid to try it. Is that still the case, or did you try it and it doesn't do anything?

OK, Thank you!!!

Back on topic D-nice hows the 111 treating you? Any early reports/ observations?

PAul

OK, Thank you!!!

Back on topic D-nice hows the 111 treating you? Any early reports/ observations?

PAulI think he either is getting it today or hasn't gotten it yet. Probably the latter :(

Isn't the warranty already two years? Your quote doesn't say it extends the warranty by two years, so I would assume it extends a lesser warranty out to two.

The 90 return policy is the real selling point, IMHO. I would jump on it for that alone. In fact, if the 5020s show up there, I'd probably pick one up for my exercise room. Anybody know if they've sold those yet?

I don't think they will have them this early in the game. My contact at Pioneer tells me they needed to unload lots of 6020's thus the costco approach.

I don't think they will have them this early in the game. My contact at Pioneer tells me they needed to unload lots of 6020's thus the costco approach.We were just ask to restrict posts to technical questions. ;)

Your contact at Pioneer is off topic. :)

pricing, where to buy, and related issues are not allowed on AVS

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/announcement.php?f=167&a=119

that goes for every member posting here: limit your posts to technical issues

We were just ask to restrict posts to technical questions. ;)

Your contact at Pioneer is off topic. :)

sorry, my bad

sorry, my badWe are all interested, but it does make a mess every once in a while. :)

We were just ask to restrict posts to technical questions. ;)

Your contact at Pioneer is off topic. :)

Actually, I think his contact at Pioneer may be on topic. Let's think about this: the 6020 is a brand new set, just released. Suddenly, just after the set is released, Pioneer wants to liquidate large quantities of them by sending them to a channel that they traditionally use for end-of-line merchandise? Furthermore, a (presumably real) Pioneer contact is saying that Pioneer WANTS to get rid of a bunch of 6020s. Automatically, I ask "why?"

Did Pioneer build up a huge stockpile of 6020s this early in the model's life, and have no place to store them?

Did Pioneer realize that there is something wrong with part of the model run, and therefore needs to dump them through channels used by less discerning shoppers (present company excluded... most TV shoppers don't research TV's and don't go to high-end places any more)?

Is there a new panel coming for the 60" 9Gs?

Did Pioneer suddenly discover new production capacity and more efficient production methods?

Did Pioneer feel that their MSRP was too high but that they couldn't tick off early adopters by lowering it, so try to artificially lower the price of the sets through encouraging stores to match discount prices?

These are just a few questions that immediately come to mind. I think they are of a sufficiently technical nature (well, possibly not the last one) that they qualify as "on-topic".

Don't think this has been posted yet but Pioneer apparently removed the SR+ feature. For those that dont know what SR+ is, it was used to connect Pioneer equipment to Pioneer equipment for extra control and display features. For example I had a pro-110 before exchanging it for the pro-111, I had it connected to my VSX-94 and would get on screen volume display and it would show other info from the receiver on the TV (sound fields, sound decoder mode etc) without having to use HDMI Control. Connected to the pro-111 it does nothing even though there is a port called SR on the back of the pro-111. Confirmed with Pioneer over the phone that the + feature was removed so it is basically just a control connection now (using the Tv remote for other components). Pioneer was nice enough to refund me the price of the cable, but wanted to give you all a heads up.


This is correct I spoke to Pioneer today and the 9G series have just SR functionability which means you can control other Pioneer equipment through the IR only and the + Plus function which allowed viewing of Pioneer AVR OSD is no long availible. It seems they removed many functions of the 8G line.

The Analog Tuner was removed.
Moved one back HDMI to the side postion and removed the Component that was there.


A 5% increase in Black Level is this just a marketing ploy? Is it worth even considering upgrading to a 9G series from a 8G series?

Mr. Abulia its actually easier than that. They just realized after not doing that well last year they need to do something else :)

I don't think they will have them this early in the game. My contact at Pioneer tells me they needed to unload lots of 6020's thus the costco approach.

Is there a non-publicly acknowledged technical issue with the 6020 that Pioneer felt the need to unload units to Costco who is upping the warranty a year?

Trying to keep it on topic, but curious minds want to know.


EDIT -Mr. Abulia beat me to it

The Analog Tuner was removed.

I don't think that part is true. Mine tuned in a bunch analog channels.

A 5% increase in Black Level is this just a marketing ploy? Is it worth even considering upgrading to a 9G series from a 8G series?

5% increase? I thought it's 5 TIMES blacker and not 5% blacker.

Regardless of the number, from the demos I've seen, the increase in black level is quite significant.

Mr. Abulia its actually easier than that. They just realized after not doing that well last year they need to do something else :)

Will definitely sell more through this channel than hard nose BB managers asking retail.

Though I think they could improve their profits by addressing what SOME consider chronic issues i.e buzzing, blotching, etc. to lower return rates.

I wonder what percentage of parts are salvageable from a less than 30 day old panel and if they re-use anything in new panels or break them out for use in warranty repairs, anybody with Pio insight know?

I agree and love the cinescope widescreen too. One of the great things about the Kuro, I have found, is the dramatic effect you get watching a 2.35:1 movie in a darkened room. The black bars are totally black and essentially disappear along with the black frame of the TV. It's like that big wide picture just floats in the darkness! Obviously, as prepress noted, you have to take precautions to prevent burn-in, but that minor inconvenience pales next to the beauty of the true widescreen feel you get with the Kuro.

What precautions are required/appropriate?

I watch varied programming.... 60-70% of the time full screen HD mixed with 20% 4x3 content and probably 10% Wide Aspect (movies) content.

......

I wonder what percentage of parts are salvageable from a less than 30 day old panel and if they re-use anything in new panels or break them out for use in warranty repairs, anybody with Pio insight know?
I've wondered this myself. What does happen to the returns with something this big & costly?

warranty discussions go here please:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1047176

warranty discussions go here please:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1047176


I am confused, that thread was locked quite some time ago.

I am confused, that thread was locked quite some time ago.

try it again? it should be open now

try it again? it should be open now

thank you Mark, we appriciate your hard work here.

There we go, nice!

warranty discussions go here please:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1047176

You're awesome man. Thanks a bunch!

Liar... :p

Pleased to meet you. :)

07/08/2008 Discontinued 60" KURO 1080P FLAT PANEL HDTV 1 $3,569.99 N/A

My order with OnSale.com for those curious. Oh well, didn't have much hope for it anyway. Now I can proceed with my Elite purchase :)

I honestly hoped it would work out but have seen it so many times :( Good luck!

07/08/2008 Discontinued 60" KURO 1080P FLAT PANEL HDTV 1 $3,569.99 N/A

My order with OnSale.com for those curious. Oh well, didn't have much hope for it anyway. Now I can proceed with my Elite purchase :)

After you get your Elite set up, you'll forget all about onsale.com.:cool:

Liar... :p;)

!Thanks Much! Hoping that someone will chime-in with similar measurements for the 111 and 6020 (both with and without speaker attached, relative to the bottom holes)...

I can honestly say I'm surprised that Pioneer doesn't have this posted on their site (nor do these measurements appear in the Owners Manuals)...


If no one's offered this yet, these are those measurements on the 151:
Holes are 33-15/32" apart horizontally, o.c.
Holes are 19-11/16" apart vertically, o.c.
Bottom holes are 7-13/32" from the bottom of the panel, o.c.

!Thanks Much! Hoping that someone will chime-in with similar measurements for the 111 and 6020 (both with and without speaker attached, relative to the bottom holes)...

I can honestly say I'm surprised that Pioneer doesn't have this posted on their site (nor do these measurements appear in the Owners Manuals)...

It is actually on their site. My original measurements were done with a tape, but I thought I should check just in case you were relying on them being super-accurate. If you go to the Pioneer site and look in the custom install section, they have pdf CADs of the units' measurements.


http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/485886690PDP-6010FD_CAD%20Drawing.pdf
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/PRO-111FD%20Dimensions.pdf

(P.S. All my measurements were off by 1/32. I think I did pretty well!)

D-nice PRO-111 was sopposed to arrive yesterday right? i must of missed that post, did he write it here ? or only on the 9g elite thread?



Pixel count more important then the whole image? with WS you see everything not crop where a letterbox FS and pan scale messes with the picture.... please try to think about it.

Please, not another "expert" who thinks that they have to tell me how to watch television. If you really studied the issue, you would realize that a letterbox format with bars results in LESS total picture content. Hint: count the active (those not used for the bars) pixels and you will realize that less is not more.

DelJ

Pixel count more important then the whole image? with WS you see everything not crop where a letterbox FS and pan scale messes with the picture.... please try to think about it.

He already got jumped on for this, gus, but it seems this is his preference. :)

and in regards to D-nice? did he post about the arrival of the 111?


EDIT:

imminent? anyways any post link?

and in regards to D-nice? did he post about the arrival of the 111?
Last I recall was a mention that it was imminent.

ok guys i purchased my 5020 on amazon in order to get the 3 months no interest no payment deal.. now it shows being delivered on monday by ceva.. is there anyway i can call them to scheduel a delivery time of after 500 since i work.. how does this work and with amazon on the shipping is it white glove

D-nice PRO-111 was sopposed to arrive yesterday right? i must of missed that post, did he write it here ? or only on the 9g elite thread?PRO-111FD arrived yesterday, PRO-111FD was refused due to damage. Robert is sending another unit out.....the replacement of the replacement.

isnt this the 3rd time within 2 weeks u receive a panel damaged.. you would think they would learn..

PRO-111FD arrived yesterday, PRO-111FD was refused due to damage. Robert is sending another unit out.....the replacement of the replacement.

Incredible.

I would not want to be the insurer for these carriers. Was it the same carrier?

If not who was it?
Paul

D say it isnt so man thats the 2nd one.... was it the same company / delivery people? this seems to be an example to advice robert for better delivery company? so how long until the next one?

once you break it in and calibrate it where would you post results ? is it going to be in the elite thread?

im assuming ur going to make the settings/issue thread ?


PRO-111FD arrived yesterday, PRO-111FD was refused due to damage. Robert is sending another unit out.....the replacement of the replacement.

There were 2 tuners in the 8G Elite line there is only one tuner in the 9G per Pioneer. I don't think IGT will matter much in the long run.

There were 2 tuners in the 8G Elite line there is only one tuner in the 9G per Pioneer. I don't think IGT will matter much in the long run.

Well it might have made a difference if both tuners in the 8G were digital. Then you could have used the PIP to show 2 OTA HD stations.

Can the 9Gs show two HD pictures from any sources in the PIP?

PRO-111FD arrived yesterday, PRO-111FD was refused due to damage. Robert is sending another unit out.....the replacement of the replacement.

Are these coming directly from Robert or from the distributor that sources him?

D say it isnt so man thats the 2nd one.... was it the same company / delivery people? this seems to be an example to advice robert for better delivery company? so how long until the next one?The damage was on the back of the panel (upper right-hand). The damage looked like it was done @ Pioneer as the box was flawless.


once you break it in and calibrate it where would you post results ?Yes

is it going to be in the elite thread?Yes

im assuming ur going to make the settings/issue thread ?Yes

Are these coming directly from Robert or from the distributor that sources him?Not sure.

ok guys i purchased my 5020 on amazon in order to get the 3 months no interest no payment deal.. now it shows being delivered on monday by ceva.. is there anyway i can call them to scheduel a delivery time of after 500 since i work.. how does this work and with amazon on the shipping is it white glove

Eddy, call Ceva and see if they can work something out for you. 800 888 4949. I've been talking to them almost every day since I placed my order, lol.

Me, too. My last TV was great, but you were always aware of the not-quite-black bars in the dark. The complete blackness of the Kuro raises the question for me: There's all this talk of 10g and what's coming next year, etc. I honestly don't see how black can get any blacker than matching the bezel! What will these new ones supposedly have or be able to do that would be worth waiting for?

Hi progprog,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm waiting for the increased peak brightness that the 10Gs are supposed to have.

Yours,

David

Just an FYI. I just got off the phone with Pioneer because I thought I was having a problem with the HDMI Control. I have the 151FD and the 94TXH Elite Receiver and when I raise or Lower the volume on the Reciever, the displayed volume on the PDP shows a different number. So, when the Reciever shows say -40, the Display shows -20 (after a delayed response). Pioneer tells me that this is normal, the two do not match! What?? What's the purpose of the volume display on the PDP then? The only thing you can use it for is to show that you are adjusting the volume and more or less guess by how much! I had hoped that if I connect the SR+ control, it would resolve this, but as someone already confirmed, and I now re-confirmed, the 151 does not have SR+ and only has SR (mono).

PQ is still great though! Batman Begins is awesome on this Plasma! :)

D-nice whats the lowest measurement your equipment goes? lumes levels and such?

also say i do your future to be reference mode you'll be based on the elite calibration mode of course, but how would you rate your settings to say UMR if he were to calibrate it?

PRO-111FD arrived yesterday, PRO-111FD was refused due to damage. Robert is sending another unit out.....the replacement of the replacement.


:eek: Amazing! I would think with all the delivery damaged displays and all the "returns" because of dead pixels,blotching, buzzing, and dirty screen effect that Pio would try to fix these problems just to have a higher profit margin. I think this just go's to show how much money Pio "really makes" on their PDPS;)

D-nice whats the lowest measurement your equipment goes? lumes levels and such?I can go all the way down to 0.001fL.

also say i do your future to be reference mode you'll be based on the elite calibration mode of course, but how would you rate your settings to say UMR if he were to calibrate it?The reference settings I post will be based on Pure mode. However I will also calibrate ISF Day and Night modes for each input. If you use my settings and use the break-in DVD, they should get you around the 95% mark of what any calibrator is capable of doing.

thanks.... i guess that will do meanwhile umr gets here... although when a calibration done by him and such is it based on all inputs ? picture modes?

:eek: Amazing! I would think with all the delivery damaged displays and all the "returns" because of dead pixels,blotching, buzzing, and dirty screen effect that Pio would try to fix these problems just to have a higher profit margin. I think this just go's to show how much money Pio "really makes" on their PDPS;)How many panels have been returned for blotching, buzzing, blah, blah, blah compared to other manufacturers that have pixel issues, purple snakes, refresh rate flickering, black level fluctuations, color flickering, power supply problems, dead pixels, tuner problems, etc, etc?

thanks.... i guess that will do meanwhile umr gets here... although when a calibration done by him and such is it based on all inputs ? picture modes?You need to ask him that.

I can go all the way down to 0.001fL.

The reference settings I post will be based on Pure mode. However I will also calibrate ISF Day and Night modes for each input. If you use my settings and use the break-in DVD, they should get you around the 95% mark of what any calibrator is capable of doing.

Lets say someone used the break-in DVD to 150 hours after 86 hours of normal viewing (64 hours on DVD break-in). How close would one get? :)

Lets say someone used the break-in DVD to 150 hours after 86 hours of normal viewing (64 hours on DVD break-in). How close would one get? :)
I don't know. There are some significant shifts that happen between 0-150 hours. If you are watching dynamic content during the first 0-150 hours, I can't say how far "off" the settings will be. However, I do know that they will off from someone that actually used the break-in DVD.

i would assume 150hr for break in to 200 500 hr etc is all as one would want to do so right? edit what i meant to say was is their any more benefit going beyond 150 hrs or it benefits the longer you go until certain hrs have been broken into?