Hi all

I am a new member to this forum. I`ve been looking to buy a plasma and have been debating between Panasonic and Pioneer. So far, it looks like Pioneer has better plasma panels compared to panasonic. I have a few questions for the senior members of this forum

1) How does the pioneer 6020 compared to the panasonic 800 series with the THX mode.
I am talking about out of the box picture for both. I don`t like to spend 300-500 dollars for professional calibration. I would rather go with the reference settings suggested by the other forum members
2) Is there a real worthy difference between the 6020 and 151FD
3) When is the 141FD going to be available and what would the MSRP be like approximately
4) MOST IMPORTANT ---When would the 9mm pioneer panels be available? Is it going to be next year? I did notice that Hitachi is releasing the 1.5inch thick plasma next year

Sorry for the long post. This is just my anxiety being a new/first time plasm buyer

D-Nice, sorry to hear YET another one of your sets was damaged.

Hopefully the replacement of the replacement will get to your place real soon!

Hi iamonline2000 first of all welcome to avs forums

1)using D-nice reference settings overall the 6020 would be better.

2)on the 9g yes their is a difference in the non elite vs the elite because you have more tweekablity options to use in reference settings again by d-nice which would avoid a pro calibrator, the non elite is crippled so it has less features.

3)TBD

i would still take the 6020 over the panasonic (i own a panny px75u so i dont hate panny i just like PQ.

4)TBD but it will be outsourced with panasonic panel


Hi all

I am a new member to this forum. I`ve been looking to buy a plasma and have been debating between Panasonic and Pioneer. So far, it looks like Pioneer has better plasma panels compared to panasonic. I have a few questions for the senior members of this forum

1) How does the pioneer 6020 compared to the panasonic 800 series with the THX mode.
I am talking about out of the box picture for both. I don`t like to spend 300-500 dollars for professional calibration. I would rather go with the reference settings suggested by the other forum members
2) Is there a real worthy difference between the 6020 and 151FD
3) When is the 141FD going to be available and what would the MSRP be like approximately
4) MOST IMPORTANT ---When would the 9mm pioneer panels be available? Is it going to be next year? I did notice that Hitachi is releasing the 1.5inch thick plasma next year

Sorry for the long post. This is just my anxiety being a new/first time plasm buyer

:eek: Amazing! I would think with all the delivery damaged displays and all the "returns" because of dead pixels,blotching, buzzing, and dirty screen effect that Pio would try to fix these problems just to have a higher profit margin. I think this just go's to show how much money Pio "really makes" on their PDPS;)

Displays damaged during delivery are sales for Pio and no warranty issues for them.Not sure how to classify D's latest 111 though.

I don't know. There are some significant shifts that happen between 0-150 hours. If you are watching dynamic content during the first 0-150 hours, I can't say how far "off" the settings will be. However, I do know that they will off from someone that actually used the break-in DVD.

Since it is unknown how close the reference settings will be, Is the best method of achieving optimal settings, bar paying for a calibration, is to use the AVS709 disc?

I am assuming those significant shifts are more prominent during the first half of the 150 hours? Does it drop off in a linear or logarithmic fashion? Would it be beneficial to run the break-in DVD for 150 hours after the first 75 hours of dynamic viewing?

Amazing! I would think with all the delivery damaged displays and all the "returns" because of dead pixels,blotching, buzzing, and dirty screen effect that Pio would try to fix these problems just to have a higher profit margin. I think this just go's to show how much money Pio "really makes" on their PDPS

They may end up fixing the unit and selling it as refurbished (I don't know if Pioneer does this with their high-end TVs.)

If the damage is just cosmetic, or to just one part, they could strip out whatever works for use as spare parts for factory repairs.

If the unit is a total loss for some reason (which is unlikely), they would end up claiming it as a business expense, offsetting some of their tax liability.

Obviously a return costs them some money, but not as much as you might think.

PRO-111FD arrived yesterday, PRO-111FD was refused due to damage. Robert is sending another unit out.....the replacement of the replacement.

MAN, this is not good at all. I hope it works out, I think I only seen this once with 2 in a row.

PRO-111FD arrived yesterday, PRO-111FD was refused due to damage. Robert is sending another unit out.....the replacement of the replacement.

If only you were within our 250 mile radius... I would have been happy to send you one for testing and settings research. Sorry to hear the bad news.

D-Nice: I posted a thread on my calibrated Elite 150 with a couple of questions. Could you please look at post #11144 on the 8G Settings thread. Thanks.

Jim

PRO-111FD arrived yesterday, PRO-111FD was refused due to damage. Robert is sending another unit out.....the replacement of the replacement.

3rd times a charm!

I don't know. There are some significant shifts that happen between 0-150 hours. If you are watching dynamic content during the first 0-150 hours, I can't say how far "off" the settings will be. However, I do know that they will off from someone that actually used the break-in DVD.
D-Nice

Sorry to hear about that. All I can say is --it`s crazy that this has happened to the same person on two occasions

Hope you get the replacement very soon

D-Nice

Sorry to hear about that. All I can say is --it`s crazy that this has happened to the same person on two occasions

Hope you get the replacement very soon

It is very very rare to see this happen and I have only seen it happen twice before.

edit what i meant to say was is their any more benefit going beyond 150 hrsWell technically one should not get their Kuro calibrated until you have 400-500 hours on it as there's another color shift (although smaller in magnitude) at the 400-500 mark. However, it's not really necessary.

MAN, this is not good at all. I hope it works out, I think I only seen this once with 2 in a row.It will work out. Robert should have shipped a new one yesterday or today.

D-Nice: I posted a thread on my calibrated Elite 150 with a couple of questions. Could you please look at post #11144 on the 8G Settings thread. Thanks.

JimReplied :)

D-Nice, sorry to hear YET another one of your sets was damaged.

Hopefully the replacement of the replacement will get to your place real soon!
Thanks

If only you were within our 250 mile radius... I would have been happy to send you one for testing and settings research. Sorry to hear the bad news.Thanks

D-Nice

Sorry to hear about that. All I can say is --it`s crazy that this has happened to the same person on two occasions

Hope you get the replacement very soonYeah. My luck with Elites is very bad right now. However, everything will work out.

Thanks

No problem, just trying to lend a hand.

So, I've finally completed the work that needed to be done on our roof, and now I've got the go-ahead to order my "precious Kuro plasma:D". I'm 99% sure I'll be going with the Elite, but there is still one question nagging at me, and I'd like you guys to chime in.

Back when I first started my long journey towards HD perfection, I remember reading reviews of plasmas where the reviewer would say things like "it puts out a good image for a plasma this large" or something to that effect. Now I know some of that comes from the fact that the larger the screen, the more bad source material sticks out at you, and plasmas back then didn't have the higher resolutions that are available today, but I do remember D-Nice saying somewhere that the black levels on a 50" 1080p set would be deeper than on a 60" 1080p set because of the smaller pixels (smaller pixels equals less light ouput I guess).

My question is: If I go with the PRO-151FD, will I be losing picture quality vs. the smaller PRO-111FD?

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the obvious effects of blowing an image up 40% on a 60" screen (vs. a 50"). I'm asking if there are still fundamental challenges to manufacturing larger plasmas that would effect picture quality?

Is there something about plasma tech that would give smaller screens an intrinsic advantage in PQ?

I can go all the way down to 0.001fL.

The reference settings I post will be based on Pure mode. However I will also calibrate ISF Day and Night modes for each input. If you use my settings and use the break-in DVD, they should get you around the 95% mark of what any calibrator is capable of doing.
D-Nice,

I was wondering if you have any kind of information regarding what we can expect from the 10G 9mm panels....as far as their black levels and approximate year of release.

I am going insane if I should wait for the 9mm panels...But I can`t wait for more than 12-14 months (who knows? I might die by then)

If it is going to be next year,then I might just buy the 5020 and move it to my bedroom once I get the 9mm panel

How many panels have been returned for blotching, buzzing, blah, blah, blah compared to other manufacturers that have pixel issues, purple snakes, refresh rate flickering, black level fluctuations, color flickering, power supply problems, dead pixels, tuner problems, etc, etc?


That is just my point:rolleyes:
A fix for the problems I mentioned(any manufacturer) sure would go a long way to total customer satisfaction. Win Win...:)

D-Nice,

I was wondering if you have any kind of information regarding what we can expect from the 10G 9mm panels....as far as their black levels and approximate year of release.There aren't any 10G 9mm panels.

There aren't any 10G 9mm panels.
so what is this thing that I read about 9mm thick plasma panels
http://gizmodo.com/341431/pioneer-9mm+thin-concept-plasma-ogled-from-all-angles
....are they not the same ones that Pioneer is working on.....
Correct me if I`m mistaken

What exactly is pioneer working on for the next generation---

so what is this thing that I read about 9mm thick plasma panels
http://gizmodo.com/341431/pioneer-9mm+thin-concept-plasma-ogled-from-all-angles
....are they not the same ones that Pioneer is working on.....
Correct me if I`m mistaken

What exactly is pioneer working on for the next generation---9mm panels are 10 lumen tech. 2009 models will have 5 lumen tech. ECC is slated for the 10G Kuros.

Why is everyone talking about these things now anyway? Does the word "concept" not register with everyone? Look at "concept" cars, they all look ridiculous and end up nothing like the cars that actually are built. Even if the KURO concepts are close to being a reality, who says it's going to be next year or even the year after?

Sorry for the outburst, but sheesh.

My question is: If I go with the PRO-151FD, will I be losing picture quality vs. the smaller PRO-111FD?That depends on how far away you sit, and how you plan on using your display.

If you are a big movie fan, and sit about ten feet from your display the 111FD would cost you PQ in terms of immersion. If you mainly watch SD sitcoms from any distance, the 111FD might seem like the best deal. Under those circumstances a 5020 might be an even better choice.

It depends. ;)

Why is everyone talking about these things now anyway? Does the word "concept" not register with everyone? Look at "concept" cars, they all look ridiculous and end up nothing like the cars that actually are built. Even if the KURO concepts are close to being a reality, who says it's going to be next year or even the year after?

Sorry for the outburst, but sheesh.

Pioneer has a much better track record of delivering technology 'concepts' than Detroit.

Why is everyone talking about these things now anyway? Does the word "concept" not register with everyone? Look at "concept" cars, they all look ridiculous and end up nothing like the cars that actually are built. Even if the KURO concepts are close to being a reality, who says it's going to be next year or even the year after?

Sorry for the outburst, but sheesh.
Sorry about that outburst...But keep in mind that Hitachi is releasing a 1.5inch panel next year which they have already announced. I will not be surprised if Pioneer releases their 9mm panels in the next year or two.

That depends on how far away you sit, and how you plan on using your display.

If you are a big movie fan, and sit about ten feet from your display the 111FD would cost you PQ in terms of immersion. If you mainly watch SD sitcoms from any distance, the 111FD might seem like the best deal. Under those circumstances a 5020 might be an even better choice.

It depends. ;)
To be fair, watching SD doesn't mean you're watching sitcoms or that you don't have the taste for a TOTL television. :rolleyes: SD in general tends to look better on a smaller screen. As HDPeeT noted, larger screens do exacerbate image defects. I watch a lot of news programs, and most of them are still in SD, so I've been spending a lot of time in the past few days trying to come up with the best picture for those sources. Unfortunately, I think the 151 is a little weak in this area, but certainly makes up for when the lights go down and the hi-def goes up!

9mm panels are 10 lumen tech. 2009 models will have 5 lumen tech. ECC is slated for the 10G Kuros.
So how many lumen tech do the 9g panels have?

How much do you think would be the % of contrast & black levels difference between the 9G`s and 10G`s?

What is ECC that is slated for 10g panels?

What is ECC that is slated for 10g panels?

Extreme Contrast Concept

Just upgraded from a 52 inch LCD to a 60 inch Plasma - 151 and all I can say is wow! awesome PQ from 8 ft away. Although the ting builds up heat and I can hear a light buzz when my HTPC is connected.

9mm panels are 10 lumen tech. 2009 models will have 5 lumen tech. ECC is slated for the 10G Kuros.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11553477#post11553477

I was reading some of the older posts...and I ran into this link.

I`m still not clear if the 9G uses the 10 lumen or not

Just upgraded from a 52 inch LCD to a 60 inch Plasma - 151 and all I can say is wow! awesome PQ from 8 ft away. Although the ting builds up heat and I can hear a light buzz when my HTPC is connected.

Nice. A 60" 8ft away, how has your tan been building since you started watching your set.:D

That depends on how far away you sit, and how you plan on using your display.

If you are a big movie fan, and sit about ten feet from your display the 111FD would cost you PQ in terms of immersion. If you mainly watch SD sitcoms from any distance, the 111FD might seem like the best deal. Under those circumstances a 5020 might be an even better choice.

It depends. ;)

Thanks ht, but that's not exactly what I was getting at. We all understand that low quality sources such as SD sitcoms and over-compressed HD will look worse the larger the screen gets.

What I'm asking is: Are there limitations on larger screens, such as black level, contrast, gamma, color accuracy or other things that don't have to do with source quality?

For example, if I were to place a PRO-111FD and a PRO-151FD next to each other, or perhaps move the 151 back a few feet so that they both appear the same size, THEN, feed them a high quality Blu-ray, would one look just as good as the other?

To be fair, watching SD doesn't mean you're watching sitcoms or that you don't have the taste for a TOTL television. :rolleyes: I think you may be responding to a "for instance" that was only intended to exaggerate the need for more information. Before making an informed choice between a 60" and a 50" screen user requirements need to be analyzed by the one making the choice. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11553477#post11553477

I was reading some of the older posts...and I ran into this link.

I`m still not clear if the 9G uses the 10 lumen or notThere were manufacturing delays (among other items) after that post that has thrown a monkey wrench in 10 lumen tech. Next year, we will only see 5 lumen tech. We won't se 10 lumen tech until 2010 or 2011.

For example, if I were to place a PRO-111FD and a PRO-151FD next to each other, or perhaps move the 151 back a few feet so that they both appear the same size, THEN, feed them a high quality Blu-ray, would one look just as good as the other?The 111FD would look more "fluid" due to the smaller pixels. Both would still be outstanding.

I think you may be responding to a "for instance" that was only intended to exaggerate the need for more information. Before making an informed choice between a 60" and a 50" screen user requirements need to be analyzed by the one making the choice. :)

Agreed. Good point. I'm actually curious now with his last clarification of the question. I never really thought about that before. Hopefully, one of the experts can weigh in.

Thanks ht, but that's not exactly what I was getting at. We all understand that low quality sources such as SD sitcoms and over-compressed HD will look worse the larger the screen gets. I understood what you were getting at. I should have just asked you to describe your viewing habits. :o

Immersion is a big PQ deal for some people, and not for others. When it is a big deal for someone it's usually movies we're talking about. Believe it or not, there are Elite owner's who almost never watch movies.

What I'm asking is: Are there limitations on larger screens, such as black level, contrast, gamma, color accuracy or other things that don't have to do with source quality?

For example, if I were to place a PRO-111FD and a PRO-151FD next to each other, or perhaps move the 151 back a few feet so that they both appear the same size, THEN, feed them a high quality Blu-ray, would one look just as good as the other?If you ignore immersion, and have UMR calibrate both displays in a reasonably light controlled room, many people, including me, might not be able to tell the difference. If you were to watch the same two sets from the optimum 1080p distance, based on the visual acuity of your eyes, you might see a difference. For me, and for immersion into movies, I would go with the bigger screen. My wife would probably pick a 37" LCD panel. :eek:

I don't see any significant disadvantage for 60" Elite displays, but someone like D-Nice might have a more informed opinion.

So how many lumen tech do the 9g panels have?Upper 3 range.

How much do you think would be the % of contrast & black levels difference between the 9G`s and 10G`s?0fL blacks and infinite contrast ratio on the 10Gs. The differences would only be visible in dark room conditions.

Last night, my son & I watched BladeRunner. I'd been playing around with settings yesterday and wanted to try the "Advanced" film mode, as I thought it was supposed to provide the optimal image for 1080p/24 film content. Not long into the movie, my son asked why the movement looked "weird." I honestly couldn't see what he meant, but he knows these films like the back of his hand, so if he was seeing something, I didn't doubt it was there.

I went in and changed film mode to "Standard" and whatever he was seeing disappeared. Can anybody explain what was going on there? I must not understand the details of what that mode does.

Hopefully, one of the experts can weigh in.One just did, but now that it's been disclosed that he is a multiple abuser of the Elite 111, I'm not sure what to think. ;)

One just did, but now that it's been disclosed that he is a multiple abuser of the Elite 111, I'm not sure what to think. ;)Hey, hey. Below the belt :D

What he was seeing could be the difference between the 3-2 pulldown conversion, which he may be used to and the standard 24fps motion. It's weird that it was happening on Advance and not Standard...

I don't know for sure, though.

Hey, hey. Below the belt :DIt's for your own good. Now, about that 12 step program ... :p

It's for your own good. Now, about that 12 step program ... :pI'm calling today :p

What he was seeing could be the difference between the 3-2 pulldown conversion, which he may be used to and the standard 24fps motion. It's weird that it was happening on Advance and not Standard...

I don't know for sure, though.

He must be extremely sensitive to this. Earlier in the day, I had swapped out my HD-DVD player to make a fan modification. I have two identical units, so he never knew it was a different player when he went to watch some scenes from The Matrix. On that too, he said the motion looked strange, though I couldn't see it. I hadn't made any TV adjustments, so I was really confused until I remembered that the HD player was different. I checked its settings and it was set to force 1080p/24. I changed it to Auto, and the "weird movement" was gone.

This amazes me, because in both cases, he had no idea that anything had been changed, and yet detected a difference that I myself could not see. (He described it as being like "those BBC shows where the movement is all messed up." I have no idea what that means. :confused:)

The 111FD would look more "fluid" due to the smaller pixels. Both would still be outstanding.

I understood what you were getting at. I should have just asked you to describe your viewing habits. :o

Immersion is a big PQ deal for some people, and not for others. When it is a big deal for someone it's usually movies we're talking about. Believe it or not, there are Elite owner's who almost never watch movies.

If you ignore immersion, and have UMR calibrate both displays in a reasonably light controlled room, many people, including me, might not be able to tell the difference. If you were to watch the same two sets from the optimum 1080p distance, based on the visual acuity of your eyes, you might see a difference. For me, and for immersion into movies, I would go with the bigger screen. My wife would probably pick a 37" LCD panel. :eek:

I don't see any significant disadvantage for 60" Elite displays, but someone like D-Nice might have a more informed opinion.

Thanks guys.

HT, my viewing habits are HDTV (DirecTV) and Blu-ray. I rarely watch SD anymore (I'm an HD snob:p), mostly Comedy Central and a few cable news channels. My seating distance would best be described as "dynamic", sometimes I'm sitting on the couch, which is about 8'-9' away, and sometimes I like to plop myself on the floor at maybe 5' away.

I definitely want the 60" screen, as I watch a lot of 2.40:1 movies on Blu-ray and the immersion is very important to me. I'm not worried about 60" being "TOO LARGE". I'm just wondering if there are sacrifices in picture quality (black level, contrast, color.........) that have to be made when manufacturing large panels.

Upper 3 range.

0fL blacks and infinite contrast ratio on the 10Gs. The differences would only be visible in dark room conditions.
Thanks for those answers

One more question-- You probably answered this one before.But now this thread is 236 pages long and I don't know where to look

I see that you prefer the 151FD elite over the 6020. Is it because of the tweaking options or are there more reasons to it?

Hi all

I am a new member to this forum. I`ve been looking to buy a plasma and have been debating between Panasonic and Pioneer. So far, it looks like Pioneer has better plasma panels compared to panasonic. I have a few questions for the senior members of this forum

1) How does the pioneer 6020 compared to the panasonic 800 series with the THX mode.
I am talking about out of the box picture for both. I don`t like to spend 300-500 dollars for professional calibration. I would rather go with the reference settings suggested by the other forum members
2) Is there a real worthy difference between the 6020 and 151FD
.
.
.

Sorry for the long post. This is just my anxiety being a new/first time plasm buyer

If you live anywhere near Scarsdale, NY, you should join everyone at the Flat Panel Shootout held at Value Electronics on July 18th (eve) and 19th (morn). Look for the Flat Panel Shootout thread. Alternatively, I expect the folks attending will post answers to your first two questions.

Originally Posted by iamonline2000
Hi all

I am a new member to this forum. I`ve been looking to buy a plasma and have been debating between Panasonic and Pioneer. So far, it looks like Pioneer has better plasma panels compared to panasonic. I have a few questions for the senior members of this forum

1) How does the pioneer 6020 compared to the panasonic 800 series with the THX mode.
I am talking about out of the box picture for both. I don`t like to spend 300-500 dollars for professional calibration. I would rather go with the reference settings suggested by the other forum members
2) Is there a real worthy difference between the 6020 and 151FD
.
.
.

Sorry for the long post. This is just my anxiety being a new/first time plasm buyer

1. to answer your frist question: the difference is night and day

To be fair, watching SD doesn't mean you're watching sitcoms or that you don't have the taste for a TOTL television. :rolleyes: SD in general tends to look better on a smaller screen. As HDPeeT noted, larger screens do exacerbate image defects. I watch a lot of news programs, and most of them are still in SD, so I've been spending a lot of time in the past few days trying to come up with the best picture for those sources. Unfortunately, I think the 151 is a little weak in this area, but certainly makes up for when the lights go down and the hi-def goes up!

Fox News Channel and CNN have HD stations, if either is your cup of tea. As for your SD, perhaps NR on a low setting will help?

It sounds as if it's coming back to viewing habits and the proper screen size for them. I will be watching everything (no Blu-ray any time soon), so I want the best all-around TV.

There were manufacturing delays (among other items) after that post that has thrown a monkey wrench in 10 lumen tech. Next year, we will only see 5 lumen tech. We won't se 10 lumen tech until 2010 or 2011.

So next year = ECC + likely a little more brightness?

Fox News Channel and CNN have HD stations, if either is your cup of tea. As for your SD, perhaps NR on a low setting will help?

It sounds as if it's coming back to viewing habits and the proper screen size for them. I will be watching everything (no Blu-ray any time soon), so I want the best all-around TV.

Thanks for the tip. I'm still playing around with the settings...got it looking pretty good for most of the SD I watch. Unfortunately, Comcast in my area doesn't offer CNN HD, but I assume it's only a matter of time. (Fox Noise doesn't happen at my house.:))

Last time I bought a TV, about 2-1/2 years ago, I wanted the best all-around TV as well. The technology that best fit that bill then, and still does, IMHO, was Sony's SXRD, but it's not made anymore. :( The Kuro tops it on movies, looks about the same with HDTV, but doesn't hold a candle to it for SD TV. I think most TV content is rapidly going hi-def anyway, so this wasn't as big a consideration this time.

Last time I bought a TV, about 2-1/2 years ago, I wanted the best all-around TV as well. The technology that best fit that bill then, and still does, IMHO, was Sony's SXRD, but it's not made anymore. :( The Kuro tops it on movies, looks about the same with HDTV, but doesn't hold a candle to it for SD TV. I think most TV content is rapidly going hi-def anyway, so this wasn't as big a consideration this time.

But upconverting SD, the Kuro really shines; I have a complete set of X-Files DVDs; a box set for each season. I think it was probably season 3 when they started shooting those episodes is 16:9 SD. I played one of these discs on my Denon 3800 Blu Ray player last night, and turned off the upconversion, allowing the Kuro to do it. These episodes looked about as close to HD quality as any SD TV material I've yet seen, they fill the screen, and they are from, I think, 1995-1996.

But upconverting SD, the Kuro really shines; I have a complete set of X-Files DVDs; a box set for each season. I think it was probably season 3 when they started shooting those episodes is 16:9 SD. I played one of these discs on my Denon 3800 Blu Ray player last night, and turned off the upconversion, allowing the Kuro to do it. These episodes looked about as close to HD quality as any SD TV material I've yet seen, they fill the screen, and they are from, I think, 1995-1996.

Yeah, Mike, I have those too. (We're BIG X-Files fans around here.:D) Haven't played them on the Kuro yet, but I'm sure they look amazing. (FYI: Frank Spotnitz says there won't be HD versions of the show...:() I was referring specifically to SD television signals, in all their flawed glory. I just can't get an equivalent quality on the Kuro as I had with the Sony. Though I am getting closer.

I definitely want the 60" screen, as I watch a lot of 2.40:1 movies on Blu-ray and the immersion is very important to me.Do it! :D

Nice. A 60" 8ft away, how has your tan been building since you started watching your set.:D


My tan is coming in nicely. I am 6 1/2 feet away from my 6020. I am turning a nice deep black ;)

On Sunday night, I am having my Pro 111FD calibrated. I have been running the break in dvd now for 6 days and in the last 24 hours I have noticed an improvement. While watching the color levels, everything seems more uniform. I thought in the beginning there was a slight muddiness or blotchiness which now seems to have disappeared. While watching tv or dvd's there was no noticeable effect but when watching the pure colors changing on the screen, you could tell a difference. the person who will be calibrating my set has the following equipment: Color Facts 5.5
AEMC CA 183 light meter
Accupel HDG 3000TPG
Spyder 2 and Eye One sensors with Trichomat
Avia Pro

Any comments or suggestions on what to ask during the calibration process upcoming is appreciated. D-Nice, my sympathies to you on another bad delivery, we anxiously awaait your review .;)

ok guys i purchased my 5020 on amazon in order to get the 3 months no interest no payment deal.. now it shows being delivered on monday by ceva.. is there anyway i can call them to scheduel a delivery time of after 500 since i work.. how does this work and with amazon on the shipping is it white glove

Eddy, call Ceva and see if they can work something out for you. 800 888 4949. I've been talking to them almost every day since I placed my order, lol.

While tracking your order have either of you guys noticed that CEVA (eagle) edits the tracking info and changes things around to make it look better?

When I ordered a 6010, I noticed that my TV would sit in one location for 4-5days. Then mysteriously, the tracking info would change ,showing that the package was only at those locations for 1 day or so.
This happened both with the original set and with the replacement set. It was as if someone had edited the data to cover the fact that it sat in one location for 5 days or so.

On Sunday night, I am having my Pro 111FD calibrated. I have been running the break in dvd now for 6 days and in the last 24 hours I have noticed an improvement. While watching the color levels, everything seems more uniform. I thought in the beginning there was a slight muddiness or blotchiness which now seems to have disappeared. While watching tv or dvd's there was no noticeable effect but when watching the pure colors changing on the screen, you could tell a difference. the person who will be calibrating my set has the following equipment: Color Facts 5.5
AEMC CA 183 light meter
Accupel HDG 3000TPG
Spyder 2 and Eye One sensors with Trichomat
Avia Pro

Any comments or suggestions on what to ask during the calibration process upcoming is appreciated. D-Nice, my sympathies to you on another bad delivery, we anxiously awaait your review .;)
I remember D-Nice mentioning somewhere that it is better to wait abt 500 hrs bfore calibration

I remember D-Nice mentioning somewhere that it is better to wait abt 500 hrs bfore calibrationFor the absolute best calibration, yes. However, it is not manditory that you wait that long. 150 hours is fine.

While tracking your order have either of you guys noticed that CEVA (eagle) edits the tracking info and changes things around to make it look better?

When I ordered a 6010, I noticed that my TV would sit in one location for 4-5days. Then mysteriously, the tracking info would change ,showing that the package was only at those locations for 1 day or so.
This happened both with the original set and with the replacement set. It was as if someone had edited the data to cover the fact that it sat in one location for 5 days or so.

More likely, I think, is that it was en route during that time and they updated the dates at the final destination.

While tracking your order have either of you guys noticed that CEVA (eagle) edits the tracking info and changes things around to make it look better?

When I ordered a 6010, I noticed that my TV would sit in one location for 4-5days. Then mysteriously, the tracking info would change ,showing that the package was only at those locations for 1 day or so.
This happened both with the original set and with the replacement set. It was as if someone had edited the data to cover the fact that it sat in one location for 5 days or so.

I placed my 5020 order July 3, and as far as I know it is STILL in its origin state of OH. I just got off the phone with CEVA and they don't even know if it's going here to Charleston SC or if it has to stop in Atlanta first. I'm not very happy with Amazon, I think they dropped the ball and didn't actually ship the item when they said they did, despite charging my credit card.

That said, as long as it arrives eventually in one piece and with no major technical problems, I'll be a happy camper.

While tracking your order have either of you guys noticed that CEVA (eagle) edits the tracking info and changes things around to make it look better?

When I ordered a 6010, I noticed that my TV would sit in one location for 4-5days. Then mysteriously, the tracking info would change ,showing that the package was only at those locations for 1 day or so.
This happened both with the original set and with the replacement set. It was as if someone had edited the data to cover the fact that it sat in one location for 5 days or so.

Haven't noticed that with my current 6020 order. Amazon shipped it Monday, CEVA called this morning and we setup delivery for tomorrow afternoon. I've been tracking it along the way and the older info hasn't been edited.

It sounds like with your tracking that for some reason their systems weren't updating in realtime. So it just kept showing you the last known location, day after day. Eventually the tracking system got the updated data and showed it. I don't think there is anything nefarious going on, just slow to update.

I got to compare a 5010 and 5020 side-by-side the other day. I used the same remote to take them out of Dynamic mode. I adjusted them by eye to look as similar as possible. What did I think? Well, to be honest, besides the slightly better color saturation, I wasn't terribly impressed. The blacks were a little deeper, but if they weren't side-by-side I'd probably either not notice at all or only notice in a lowly lit environment.

I think one of the things that really urked me was the lack of picture options. As we all found out from D-Nice's review, everything is kind of locked out or hard wired and chosen by Pioneer to give the best overall picture. I am very unhappy about this. I feel that I can tweak the picture of the 5010 more to my liking. No, the blacks aren't as deep and there is a little red push, but I know how to remove the red push using the SM. As for the blacks, sure I wish I had the deeper ink, but the 5010 was actually sharper and more detailed to my eyes than the 5020. I'll take the sharper SD and HD picture over the slightly better blacks any day.

So am I the only one? If so, oh well. I just wanted to post my $0.02. I am a very happy 8th gen owner. :)

P.S. This is in no offense to anyone.

Does anyone have a Nintendo Wii that they have played on the 9G's? I am just wondering how it looks and whether or not I should buy a component cable to make it 480p when I get my 151.

I have a Nintendo Wii and have played it some on the 151. It would be wise to get a component cable to make the Wii look it's best. I don't think you can get a progressive scan picture without it.

I placed my 5020 order July 3, and as far as I know it is STILL in its origin state of OH. I just got off the phone with CEVA and they don't even know if it's going here to Charleston SC or if it has to stop in Atlanta first. I'm not very happy with Amazon, I think they dropped the ball and didn't actually ship the item when they said they did, despite charging my credit card.

That said, as long as it arrives eventually in one piece and with no major technical problems, I'll be a happy camper.

Another Charleston member, interesting.

John

Hey Chad, I keep waiting for one of your next posts to say..."Well, I ordered my 151 today!" :)

While tracking your order have either of you guys noticed that CEVA (eagle) edits the tracking info and changes things around to make it look better?

When I ordered a 6010, I noticed that my TV would sit in one location for 4-5days. Then mysteriously, the tracking info would change ,showing that the package was only at those locations for 1 day or so.
This happened both with the original set and with the replacement set. It was as if someone had edited the data to cover the fact that it sat in one location for 5 days or so.

Hey Chad, I keep waiting for one of your next posts to say..."Well, I ordered my 151 today!" :)
I know, eh! Jeez, it's like this guy is procrastinating for the sake of it. You know you waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant it! Chad... ;)

I got to compare a 5010 and 5020 side-by-side the other day. I used the same remote to take them out of Dynamic mode. I adjusted them by eye to look as similar as possible. What did I think? Well, to be honest, besides the slightly better color saturation, I wasn't terribly impressed. The blacks were a little deeper, but if they weren't side-by-side I'd probably either not notice at all or only notice in a lowly lit environment.

I think one of the things that really urked me was the lack of picture options. As we all found out from D-Nice's review, everything is kind of locked out or hard wired and chosen by Pioneer to give the best overall picture. I am very unhappy about this. I feel that I can tweak the picture of the 5010 more to my liking. No, the blacks aren't as deep and there is a little red push, but I know how to remove the red push using the SM. As for the blacks, sure I wish I had the deeper ink, but the 5010 was actually sharper and more detailed to my eyes than the 5020. I'll take the sharper SD and HD picture over the slightly better blacks any day.

So am I the only one? If so, oh well. I just wanted to post my $0.02. I am a very happy 8th gen owner. :)

P.S. This is in no offense to anyone.

As a 5010 owner who has not yet seen a 5020, but talked to some other owners prior to pulling the trigger on a fantastic deal......... I would have to say I agree with you. There is no argument that the 5020 has deeper blacks, but I don't watch in a totally blacked out room, just a dimmly lit one. The removal of too many adjustments in the 5020 was more than I could live with, and the price for an Elite was double my 5010. Also, your comments about the sharpness pan out with some other comments I've read. While not as black, I personally prefer the additional adjustment capability and the very sharp picture. To each his own, the 5020/6020 still beats everything out there except an Elite. Had the price I paid for the 5010 been close to a 5020 I think I would have had a real dilemma.

John

For the absolute best calibration, yes. However, it is not manditory that you wait that long. 150 hours is fine.
D-Nice

I asked you this before....I guess you did not notice my post

I see that you prefer the 151FD elite over the 6020. Is it because of the tweaking options or are there more reasons to it?
Personally, I just like the way elite looks but I am not sure about the picture difference btwn the two of them

Actually i noticed this in the previous posts ....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13882681#post13882681

Would that be your answer over why you prefer the elite

I have a Nintendo Wii and have played it some on the 151. It would be wise to get a component cable to make the Wii look it's best. I don't think you can get a progressive scan picture without it.

Thanks. So how does it look?

Can anyone verify if they have successfully used the following Peerless Slimline Ultra-Thin mount for a 60" Kuro or Elite? Since the HDMIs come straight out, I would assume you would also need to use their recessed box accessory IAB1 for power/cables to go into since it is so tight to the wall. This appears to be the thinnest I have found, and it should look "Very Tight" with the Signature !

http://www.peerlessmounts.com/ProductDocs/PeerlessSlimlineBrochure-email.pdf

Last night, my son & I watched BladeRunner. I'd been playing around with settings yesterday and wanted to try the "Advanced" film mode, as I thought it was supposed to provide the optimal image for 1080p/24 film content. Not long into the movie, my son asked why the movement looked "weird." I honestly couldn't see what he meant, but he knows these films like the back of his hand, so if he was seeing something, I didn't doubt it was there.

I went in and changed film mode to "Standard" and whatever he was seeing disappeared. Can anybody explain what was going on there? I must not understand the details of what that mode does.

Tell you son what he's seeing is the same "movement" that one would see at the movie theater.

What he is probably seeing is more of a step/still motion (like film)...rather than a blur that would be caused by the repeating of frames or fields with the "Standard".

"Advanced" is the correct setting if you want film content to look more like film.

But upconverting SD, the Kuro really shines; I have a complete set of X-Files DVDs; a box set for each season. I think it was probably season 3 when they started shooting those episodes is 16:9 SD. I played one of these discs on my Denon 3800 Blu Ray player last night, and turned off the upconversion, allowing the Kuro to do it. These episodes looked about as close to HD quality as any SD TV material I've yet seen, they fill the screen, and they are from, I think, 1995-1996.

That's very interesting. I, too, have the 3800, and I'm eager to test its scaling and deinterlacing capabilities relative to the 151. I'm in Lansing, and I'm still waiting for my TV. Where did you order yours from? So you're saying that sending DVD material from the Denon at 480i to the Kuro looks better than sending 1080i or 1080p?

Last night, my son & I watched BladeRunner. I'd been playing around with settings yesterday and wanted to try the "Advanced" film mode, as I thought it was supposed to provide the optimal image for 1080p/24 film content. Not long into the movie, my son asked why the movement looked "weird." I honestly couldn't see what he meant, but he knows these films like the back of his hand, so if he was seeing something, I didn't doubt it was there.

I went in and changed film mode to "Standard" and whatever he was seeing disappeared. Can anybody explain what was going on there? I must not understand the details of what that mode does.

What kind of Blu-ray player, and what are the settings on it?

one quick question i just bought the pioneer 5020 would a ps3 do 1080p 24 ot does it just do 1080p i was lookign for the best blue ray player for this set and ive heard the ps3 is up there..

That's very interesting. I, too, have the 3800, and I'm eager to test its scaling and deinterlacing capabilities relative to the 151. I'm in Lansing, and I'm still waiting for my TV. Where did you order yours from? So you're saying that sending DVD material from the Denon at 480i to the Kuro looks better than sending 1080i or 1080p?

I've tried it both ways, and there's very little difference, if any, that I can see, with the X-Files episodes. With other SD DVDs, though, (particularly Lord of the Rings, and Memories of a Geisha, which is one of the best looking SD DVDs ever, I think) the Denon does a slightly better job, I think.

I got my 151 from American TV & Electronics, in Marquette, MI. They ordered it from Pioneer, and it was sent to American's main store, which is in Madison, WI. It was then shipped up to me. American is an Elite dealer, but doesn't stock them in their stores, so it was a one-item order.

I got to compare a 5010 and 5020 side-by-side the other day. I used the same remote to take them out of Dynamic mode. I adjusted them by eye to look as similar as possible. What did I think? Well, to be honest, besides the slightly better color saturation, I wasn't terribly impressed. The blacks were a little deeper, but if they weren't side-by-side I'd probably either not notice at all or only notice in a lowly lit environment.

I think one of the things that really urked me was the lack of picture options. As we all found out from D-Nice's review, everything is kind of locked out or hard wired and chosen by Pioneer to give the best overall picture. I am very unhappy about this. I feel that I can tweak the picture of the 5010 more to my liking. No, the blacks aren't as deep and there is a little red push, but I know how to remove the red push using the SM. As for the blacks, sure I wish I had the deeper ink, but the 5010 was actually sharper and more detailed to my eyes than the 5020. I'll take the sharper SD and HD picture over the slightly better blacks any day.

So am I the only one? If so, oh well. I just wanted to post my $0.02. I am a very happy 8th gen owner. :)

P.S. This is in no offense to anyone.


No, you are not the only one, but I have already offered $10 of my two cents.

Also, your comments about the sharpness pan out with some other comments I've read. While not as black, I personally prefer the additional adjustment capability and the very sharp picture.
John

A DRE setting of low or mid can add a degree of 'apparent' sharpness to the picture. Some find the effect artificial, others find it adds some pop to the picture. To each their own, but it is nice to have control of the setting. I use it for sports, but turn it off for movies.

There were manufacturing delays (among other items) after that post that has thrown a monkey wrench in 10 lumen tech. Next year, we will only see 5 lumen tech. We won't see 10 lumen tech until 2010 or 2011.

D-Nice,

I was going to ask this in a separate thread but since we are talking about the future plans...Do you or anyone else know if Pioneer plans on making a "wireless" plasma TV similar to Samsung's FP-T5894W?

I've read about Pioneer wanting to add value to using all Pioneer components and if they would integrate something like this into on of their AV receivers it could simplify a lot of installations.

one quick question i just bought the pioneer 5020 would a ps3 do 1080p 24 ot does it just do 1080p i was lookign for the best blue ray player for this set and ive heard the ps3 is up there..

The PS3 can output 1080p/24.

Had the price I paid for the 5010 been close to a 5020 I think I would have had a real dilemma.

John

Where did you find a 5010 signficantly cheaper than a 5020? I'd lean the same way, but never was I able to find a 5010 that was more than a couple hundred less than a 5020 (at forum sponsor price) which to me is close.

I was wondering if there's any sponsor who is in the delivery radius of zip code 92249 in California... Otherwise i'll have to go to Best Buy... last year I tried to order a 110FD online and they downgraded my order and it was a complete mess, don't want to go through that again....

I was wondering if there's any sponsor who is in the delivery radius of zip code 92249 in California... Otherwise i'll have to go to Best Buy... last year I tried to order a 110FD online and they downgraded my order and it was a complete mess, don't want to go through that again....

Contact a sponsor, a lot of them ship nationwide I think.

Where did you find a 5010 signficantly cheaper than a 5020? I'd lean the same way, but never was I able to find a 5010 that was more than a couple hundred less than a 5020 (at forum sponsor price) which to me is close.

I am sure some local stores had some blow outs :)

I was wondering if there's any sponsor who is in the delivery radius of zip code 92249 in California... Otherwise i'll have to go to Best Buy... last year I tried to order a 110FD online and they downgraded my order and it was a complete mess, don't want to go through that again....
Contact the forum sponsor above my post....he has a good dealer network/friends almost all over the country

I was wondering if there's any sponsor who is in the delivery radius of zip code 92249 in California... Otherwise i'll have to go to Best Buy... last year I tried to order a 110FD online and they downgraded my order and it was a complete mess, don't want to go through that again....

www.pioneerelectronics.com type in your zip code it will show you your options.

Where did you find a 5010 signficantly cheaper than a 5020? I'd lean the same way, but never was I able to find a 5010 that was more than a couple hundred less than a 5020 (at forum sponsor price) which to me is close.

My local Costco got 4 in, they were gone in 3 or 4 days.

John

As a 5010 owner who has not yet seen a 5020, but talked to some other owners prior to pulling the trigger on a fantastic deal......... I would have to say I agree with you. There is no argument that the 5020 has deeper blacks, but I don't watch in a totally blacked out room, just a dimmly lit one. The removal of too many adjustments in the 5020 was more than I could live with, and the price for an Elite was double my 5010. Also, your comments about the sharpness pan out with some other comments I've read. While not as black, I personally prefer the additional adjustment capability and the very sharp picture. To each his own, the 5020/6020 still beats everything out there except an Elite. Had the price I paid for the 5010 been close to a 5020 I think I would have had a real dilemma.

John

I just came from Costco, where they had 5010s. I've never looked at these at all before, but I like the picture so much on my new 151 that I've thought of getting a Kuro for my exercise room. Is that a decent price for those? I really have no idea since Pioneer doesn't have MSRPs for those on the web site.

What kind of Blu-ray player, and what are the settings on it?

It was a Toshiba A35 HD-DVD player. It was set to output maximum 1080p/24.

But upconverting SD, the Kuro really shines; I have a complete set of X-Files DVDs; a box set for each season. I think it was probably season 3 when they started shooting those episodes is 16:9 SD. I played one of these discs on my Denon 3800 Blu Ray player last night, and turned off the upconversion, allowing the Kuro to do it. These episodes looked about as close to HD quality as any SD TV material I've yet seen, they fill the screen, and they are from, I think, 1995-1996.

Since I don't have the Denon player, does anyone know if it's possible for the PS3 to send a raw 480i signal via HDMI to the Kuro?

Really? Think I should pull the trigger at that price? Several posters seem to prefer it over the 5020, and this is for the exercise room, not the HT. And of course, can't beat that 90-day return policy.

Since the 5010's will be hard to find soon and that is a killer price, I would pull the trtigger.

Okay Mark gave me permission so this one is now stuck to replace the 8g thread.

Hurray sticky!

Boo Amazon and CEVA taking over 10 days to get me my 5020! :(

Yay stickied!!!

I'm with ya there buddy. Sort of. I paid for my 151 about a month ago.
Hasn't shipped yet, although the place that has my money has been prompt and helpful via email. I think supplies are just low and demand is high.
I'm also guessing the weather/fires out there in SoCal aren't helping either.
:(


Hurray sticky!

Boo Amazon and CEVA taking over 10 days to get me my 5020! :(

You guys are going to be ticked but I think I'm going to replace this sticky with the non elite 9g thread. It's only fair to have an elite and non elite sticky.

Plus this thread hasn't exactly always run smoothly.;)

chris

You guys are going to be ticked but I think I'm going to replace this sticky with the non elite 9g thread. It's only fair to have an elite and non elite sticky.

Plus this thread hasn't exactly always run smoothly.;)

chris

Who care's if it's sticky?

Take advantage of the User Control Panel..... you can make any thread you want sticky in your own personal page.

You guys are going to be ticked but I think I'm going to replace this sticky with the non elite 9g thread. It's only fair to have an elite and non elite sticky.

Plus this thread hasn't exactly always run smoothly.;)

chris

why not sticky all three? I think the post count in this thread warrants it. Plus I think we need a thread about issues or comparisons that affect the entire kuro line, and do not easily fit into a specific elite or non-elite thread.

It may seem unfair to sticky 3 pioneer related threads, but it has been shown that the demand is there.

This is for D-Nice or anyone that knows the real answer to this question.
I have the ps3 and the 5020. I have been using D-Nice's movie settings and they are great. I only tweaked teh colour up to my liking. However, last night i was playing with teh ps3 settings during a movie so i could get direct comparisons. I went into video settings and was switching between RGB colour and Yp/Cb/Rc/Bp or whatever the letters are. and the setting i usually had the ps3 on was the Yp/Cb... so when i switched to RGB i noticed the colours in the movie had alot more pop to them. then went i swtiched back the colours were more soft. So i was thinking if I did not tweak D-Nice's colours up a couple notches on the RGB setting would the be the correct ps3 setting. So in other words, my question is should i be using the RGB colour or the Yp/Pb/Rc.. thing? Let me know, thanks

why not sticky all three? I think the post count in this thread warrants it. Plus I think we need a thread about issues or comparisons that affect the entire kuro line, and do not easily fit into a specific elite or non-elite thread.

It may seem unfair to sticky 3 pioneer related threads, but it has been shown that the demand is there.Honestly? This thread has caused issues in the past and I don't think it should be rewarded with a sticky regardless of thread views. Second reason is we don't want anymore stickies. The number stuck now is the same as yesterday afternoon. Just newer gen threads of the same brands

Hope this helps,

chris

Woodrow

Any way of transferring DNice's first few posts to the sticky threads

Those first posts are very valueable

Can't merge posts but I posted a link to the general thread in the first post of both stickies. Each one referring to the first two posts of the general thread as guidance.

Hope this helps,

chris

just ot make sure it doesnt get missed:

This is for D-Nice or anyone that knows the real answer to this question.
I have the ps3 and the 5020. I have been using D-Nice's movie settings and they are great. I only tweaked teh colour up to my liking. However, last night i was playing with teh ps3 settings during a movie so i could get direct comparisons. I went into video settings and was switching between RGB colour and Yp/Cb/Rc/Bp or whatever the letters are. and the setting i usually had the ps3 on was the Yp/Cb... so when i switched to RGB i noticed the colours in the movie had alot more pop to them. then went i swtiched back the colours were more soft. So i was thinking if I did not tweak D-Nice's colours up a couple notches on the RGB setting would the be the correct ps3 setting. So in other words, my question is should i be using the RGB colour or the Yp/Pb/Rc.. thing? Let me know, thanks

Honestly? This thread has caused issues in the past and I don't think it should be rewarded with a sticky regardless of thread views. Second reason is we don't want anymore stickies. The number stuck now is the same as yesterday afternoon. Just newer gen threads of the same brands

Hope this helps,

chris

Fair enough. Similar to the above post by irwinroad, my concern is that since D-nice posted most of his info in this thread, it has garnered the most attention of the 9g threads. But if there is a way to at least insert his first few posts of this thread to the other ones, that would be sweet. If he wanted this of course :)

Fair enough. Similar to the above post by irwinroad, my concern is that since D-nice posted most of his info in this thread, it has garnered the most attention of the 9g threads. But if there is a way to at least insert his first few posts of this thread to the other ones, that would be sweet. If he wanted this of course :)I responded to irwinroad two posts back..hope it solves the issue enough to be acceptable. :)

chris

Since I don't have the Denon player, does anyone know if it's possible for the PS3 to send a raw 480i signal via HDMI to the Kuro?

Nope, it can send 480p but not 480i over HDMI.

I responded to irwinroad two posts back..hope it solves the issue enough to be acceptable. :)

chris

oops didn't see that. Just read it, sounds good to me.

100% agree, I love widescreen even with the bars on the top and bottom and I hate when the bars are on the sides, it just bugs me. But, I know more people who prefer the bars on the sides, it is just one of those things.

I think you all have taken my original query on aspect ratio in wrong spirit. I do not recall suggesting cropping/distorting image to fill screen is better than widescreen. I merely observed that widescreen results in wasting pixels - but that's how it is intended by the film producer and that's fine.

I remember D-Nice's comments that Pioneer's own upscaling is much better than most of the upconverting dvd players. I think I agree with him. To use Pioneer's upscaling, one has to send 480i or p signal. When doing so, I found that I can use "Cinema" mode which almost fills up the screen. I looked hard and compared it with WS but cannot find or determine if the image is cropped or distorted. Just want to know if my finding is correct or am I missing something?

Again, please understand I am not pushing to fill up the screen at the expense of image quality so don't bombard me with those remarks.

BTW, the cheapest way to send 480i raw to pioneer xx20s is using toshiba hd-a30. This is an HD-DVD player and can be had in barely used condition for less than $100 on ebay. They also send 1080p24. SD DVDs look great. Audio is very good too. Am waiting on Emotiva UMC-1 to try out TrueHD.

I remember D-Nice's comments that Pioneer's own upscaling is much better than most of the upconverting dvd players. I think I agree with him. To use Pioneer's upscaling, one has to send 480i or p signal.Just to add a little more detail:

Deinterlacing is a big Kuro advantage so D-Nice suggests sending 480i using a HDMI connection. Letting the DVD player deinterlace 480i to 480p would be a disadvantage. Using a component connection would also be a disadvantage.

I think you all have taken my original query on aspect ratio in wrong spirit.The replies that you've gotten may stem from your first questions on that topic.

Is there a way to get rid of black bars at top and bottom when watching WS format DVDs? I watched LOTR sourced from Philips 5982 @ 480p and Cinema mode on 5020 which gave smaller bars. Full mode gives bigger bars. If upconverted to 1080p then Cinema mode is not available and big bars don't go away. I am using D-Nice's settings of Movie. Am I missing something?

Deinterlacing is a big Kuro advantage so D-Nice suggests sending 480i using a HDMI connection.
The video geek in me is curious: does it use motion compensation or is it just motion adaptive? (Well, I assume it is at least motion adaptive and not just a simple bobber.)

The video geek in me is curious: does it use motion compensation or is it just motion adaptive? (Well, I assume it is at least motion adaptive and not just a simple bobber.)It's not a bobber, but beyond that, I don't know.

It's not motion adaptors or enhancers. It's simple deinterlacing, or rather not-so-simple deinterlacing since so many components get it wrong.

It's not motion adaptors or enhancers.
I believe that given the tests I've read that the Kuro does pass, it must be at the very least motion adaptive. Otherwise the motion resolution would be much lower than seems to be reported.

But I'm hoping it's one of the few deinterlacers that use motion compensation. It's much more computationally expensive, and tough to get right, but the quality improvement over the comparatively simpler motion adaptive approaches is very apparent.

I believe that given the tests I've read that the Kuro does pass, it must be at the very least motion adaptive. Otherwise the motion resolution would be much lower than seems to be reported.

But I'm hoping it's one of the few deinterlacers that use motion compensation. It's much more computationally expensive, and tough to get right, but the quality improvement over the comparatively simpler motion adaptive approaches is very apparent.

The 151 has a setting for the de-interlacing function. As the manual doesn't really explain what the different options actually do, may one of you guys who know a lot about this could give some insight, and maybe even some advice on when to use which settings. The options are:
1 = optimizes video images
2 = standard setting
3 = optimizes still images

The options are:
1 = optimizes video images
2 = standard setting
3 = optimizes still images

Based on this I strongly suspect it is strictly motion adaptive, and these settings allow one to tune the motion threshold.

In other words, when set to 1, it will be more likely to consider a block in motion (and therefore bob it), whereas with option 3 it will be more likely to consider a block as static (and therefore weave it).

Without experimenting with the settings I have nothing to say about them, but I'd suspect leaving it set to 2 probably is the better default.

It's a bit disappointing, but I'm not terribly surprised. Motion compensating deinterlacers seem to exist in only very high end equipment. (Maybe some of the better outboard processors do it?)

Please forgive me if this has been answered, but I want to make sure I understand. Reading through the thread, I understand that the Kuro (mine is the 151) automatically upconverts 480i/p, 720i/p and 1080i to 1080p, which is it's native resolution. However, when I pass a 480p signal, I press "Display" and it shows 480p on the Plasma. I can also see that the picture is lower quality than 1080p. When I have the PS3 or DVD player upconvert to say 1080i/p, then I see the much better quality picture on the Plasma and the "Display" reads 1080i/p. So what am I doing wrong or is there a setting on the Kuro that I am overlooking, that makes the Kuro upconvert? Manual was of no use to me in this regard. As always, I appreciate the help provided by this forum's members.

Please forgive me if this has been answered, but I want to make sure I understand. Reading through the thread, I understand that the Kuro (mine is the 151) automatically upconverts 480i/p, 720i/p and 1080i to 1080p, which is it's native resolution. However, when I pass a 480p signal, I press "Display" and it shows 480p on the Plasma. I can also see that the picture is lower quality than 1080p. When I have the PS3 or DVD player upconvert to say 1080i/p, then I see the much better quality picture on the Plasma and the "Display" reads 1080i/p. So what am I doing wrong or is there a setting on the Kuro that I am overlooking, that makes the Kuro upconvert? Manual was of no use to me in this regard. As always, I appreciate the help provided by this forum's members.
The Kuro automatically upconverts to the native resolution. It is hard to explain why 480p is lower quality than 1080p unless you are down-scaling a 1080p source to 480p in the player. If you feed the Kuro a 480p signal from a 480p source the signal will most like be as good or better than having the player upscale it to 1080p. The Kuros are excellent at scaling.

Please forgive me if this has been answered, but I want to make sure I understand. Reading through the thread, I understand that the Kuro (mine is the 151) automatically upconverts 480i/p, 720i/p and 1080i to 1080p, which is it's native resolution. However, when I pass a 480p signal, I press "Display" and it shows 480p on the Plasma. I can also see that the picture is lower quality than 1080p. When I have the PS3 or DVD player upconvert to say 1080i/p, then I see the much better quality picture on the Plasma and the "Display" reads 1080i/p. So what am I doing wrong or is there a setting on the Kuro that I am overlooking, that makes the Kuro upconvert? Manual was of no use to me in this regard. As always, I appreciate the help provided by this forum's members.

When you press "display" on your remote, the resolution that it shows on the screen (480p/1080i/etc) is only to show you the resolution on the incoming signal.
When it says "480i", that means what you are seeing is 480i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "480p", that means what you are seeing is 480p upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "720i", that means what you are seeing is 720i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "720p", that means what you are seeing is 720p upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "1080i", that means what you are seeing is 1080i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "1080p", that means what you are seeing is 1080p upconverted to 1080p.

you are always seeing 1080p. the quality and resolution of the source is why you see differences

The Kuro automatically upconverts to the native resolution. It is hard to explain why 480p is lower quality than 1080p unless you are down-scaling a 1080p source to 480p in the player. If you feed the Kuro a 480p signal from a 480p source the signal will most like be as good or better than having the player upscale it to 1080p. The Kuros are excellent at scaling.

At least with the HQV test DVD, the PS3 (with current software) is actually better at deinterlacing 480i than my 150. I have also compared the PS3 to a Denon DVD 3930 (which has the Realta chip) and the two are comparably good at deinterlacing video material (using not only the HQV test DVD but also real-world program material). However, the Denon is slightly better at sharpening the image and doing noise reduction.

The 150's deinterlacer came in well behind the PS3 and Denon. It took a long time to lock onto the 3:2 cadence in the "Speedway" test (both the Denon and the PS3 were extremely quick) and also showed substantially more "feathering" or "combing" artifacts with real-world video-originated material. The 150's deinterlacing is good, but I would not call it "excellent." It's clearly not up to the current state of the art.

Everyone,

I'm happy to report that the 9G non-Elites can officially be calibrated :)

Colorspace selection may also be capable. I will report back later.

Cool, D-Nice.

Let us know what tools we'll need and to the extent that regular Kuros can match their Elite counterparts.

At least with the HQV test DVD, the PS3 (with current software) is actually better at deinterlacing 480i than my 150. I have also compared the PS3 to a Denon DVD 3930 (which has the Realta chip) and the two are comparably good at deinterlacing video material (using not only the HQV test DVD but also real-world program material). However, the Denon is slightly better at sharpening the image and doing noise reduction.

The 150's deinterlacer came in well behind the PS3 and Denon. It took a long time to lock onto the 3:2 cadence in the "Speedway" test (both the Denon and the PS3 were extremely quick) and also showed substantially more "feathering" or "combing" artifacts with real-world video-originated material. The 150's deinterlacing is good, but I would not call it "excellent." It's clearly not up to the current state of the art.
De-interlacing is one thing, but scaling is another. When we are talking about the difference between 480p and 1080p we talking about scaling -- and that the Kuros do very well.

I also compared my 8G Kuro's de-interlacing to the PS3 and found the Kuro to be better. The image had more detail and was more realistic with well authored titles like Star Wars. I wasn't so much looking at torture tests as real world viewing. I remember the Kuro having troubles with certain cadences compared to the HD-XA2 or the OPPO 983, but I don't put much value on that compared to the overall image that you get with the vast majority of released DVDs. I guess it depends on what is important to you. I personally tend to spend more time watching movies than calibration discs:)

At least with the HQV test DVD, the PS3 (with current software) is actually better at deinterlacing 480i than my 150. I have also compared the PS3 to a Denon DVD 3930 (which has the Realta chip) and the two are comparably good at deinterlacing video material (using not only the HQV test DVD but also real-world program material). However, the Denon is slightly better at sharpening the image and doing noise reduction.

The 150's deinterlacer came in well behind the PS3 and Denon. It took a long time to lock onto the 3:2 cadence in the "Speedway" test (both the Denon and the PS3 were extremely quick) and also showed substantially more "feathering" or "combing" artifacts with real-world video-originated material. The 150's deinterlacing is good, but I would not call it "excellent." It's clearly not up to the current state of the art.

I agree. Another one that beats it as well is the OPPO 983 with ABT de-interlacing. I think sometimes people confuse the excellent scaling capabilities of the Pio's with the de-interlacing capability....... two different things altogether. Not that the Pio de-interlacing is bad, just not the king of the hill some think it is.

John

Everyone,

I'm happy to report that the 9G non-Elites can officially be calibrated :)

Colorspace selection may also be capable. I will report back later.

Can you possibly change the layout of the NR,DRE,BLK LVL,ACL,ENHAN, GAMMA,CTI for each video mode(movie, Game, standard,etc)?

This is for D-Nice or anyone that knows the real answer to this question.
I have the ps3 and the 5020. I have been using D-Nice's movie settings and they are great. I only tweaked teh colour up to my liking. However, last night i was playing with teh ps3 settings during a movie so i could get direct comparisons. I went into video settings and was switching between RGB colour and Yp/Cb/Rc/Bp or whatever the letters are. and the setting i usually had the ps3 on was the Yp/Cb... so when i switched to RGB i noticed the colours in the movie had alot more pop to them. then went i swtiched back the colours were more soft. So i was thinking if I did not tweak D-Nice's colours up a couple notches on the RGB setting would the be the correct ps3 setting. So in other words, my question is should i be using the RGB colour or the Yp/Pb/Rc.. thing? Let me know, thanks

Can you possibly change the layout of the NR,DRE,BLK LVL,ACL,ENHAN, GAMMA,CTI for each video mode(movie, Game, standard,etc)?No. Just like last year's non-Elite, you can only calibrate one set of RGB controls. That means the changes will be global. I will be calibrating Movie mode as it is still the most accurate mode.

BTW, it may be possible to modify the gamma.

Everyone,

I'm happy to report that the 9G non-Elites can officially be calibrated :)

Colorspace selection may also be capable. I will report back later.



Thanks for your persistence on researching the SM.
Will be interested to hear what you think the improvement can be from calibrating on the non-Elites.

Is anyone using their 9G with an HTPC? What settings are you using on the Pioneer, and what settings on the PC?

I've got a 6020 and an ATI HD4850, but I can't figure out what to set on each. Regular 1920x1080 @ 60hz looks fine when playing Batman Begins Blu-ray, with the 6020 in simple movie mode. Anything else that would improve this? Thanks a bunch!

D-Nice - is calibrating the non-elites via the service menu something the average avsforum user will be able to do with a proper guide, and is it something that a professional calibrator would do, or would they not want to mess with the service menu...?

Thanks for all your work. I just watched Apocolypto on Blu-Ray w/ your reference settings and it looked absolutely fantastic.

This is for D-Nice or anyone that knows the real answer to this question.
I have the ps3 and the 5020. I have been using D-Nice's movie settings and they are great. I only tweaked teh colour up to my liking. However, last night i was playing with teh ps3 settings during a movie so i could get direct comparisons. I went into video settings and was switching between RGB colour and Yp/Cb/Rc/Bp or whatever the letters are. and the setting i usually had the ps3 on was the Yp/Cb... so when i switched to RGB i noticed the colours in the movie had alot more pop to them. then went i swtiched back the colours were more soft. So i was thinking if I did not tweak D-Nice's colours up a couple notches on the RGB setting would the be the correct ps3 setting. So in other words, my question is should i be using the RGB colour or the Yp/Pb/Rc.. thing? Let me know, thanksIt's best just to leave it on Auto.

D-Nice - is calibrating the non-elites via the service menu something the average avsforum user will be able to do with a proper guide.....Not sure. However, it's really quite easy.

and is it something that a professional calibrator would do, or would they not want to mess with the service menu...?A REAL calibrator would want to use the SM as it is the only place you can adjust the grayscale on the non-Elites.

Thanks for all your work. I just watched Apocolypto on Blu-Ray w/ your reference settings and it looked absolutely fantastic.Thanks for the kind words.

Not sure. However, it's really quite easy.

A REAL calibrator would want to use the SM as it is the only place you can adjust the grayscale on the non-Elites.

Thanks for the kind words.

Hey D-man ( I say that with the greatest respect and smile on my face) :)

As a 5010 owner, would I be correct to assume the instructions on how to get to the SM on my model and the values for the grey scale calibration are somewhere in the 8G calibration/settings thread? (wonders if I could bribe you enough to come to Charleston to oversee the process :)

Oh, btw, had a good friend that owns a sign business cut down my stand and drill new holes in the stand for the bolts..................... got it back today, my 5010 now sits nice and flush like an Elite with no gap at the bottom :D

John

D,

I trust your valuable input on this forum and I guess i'm looking for a little 'extra' reassurance .... I posted my auditioning experience today with the 5020 while at BB on the non-elite 9g thread. Tell me i'm off base and that this set will, in fact, really excel on 'movie' mode in a darkened HT environment :D i've re-read your review and noted you suggest avoiding 'dynamic' mode explicitly, (which I can usually understand under dark room conditions) however, at our local BB this mode simply looked stunning! Creating a 3D depth and richness to the pic that no other display in the store could match (even the 5010 sitting next to it). And, yes, I understand it should look impressive with the brighter environment.And,of course, 'Movie' mode (understandably) looked less than impressive considering the lighting. Bottom line is .... I guess i'm affraid of getting this set home and the recommended 'Movie' mode still looking a little too suttle for my taste and not having a viable alternative setting to use (considering your opinion on the remaining picture modes and the limited user adj.) Am I needlessly worrying about this :confused:

I was in BB the other day as well, and I compared the 5010 to the 5020 and the 5020 IMO was the better TV by quite a good margin. (8G still better than everyother plasma besides 9Gs). It impressed me so much that I bought it and took it home right then and there (well, after about an hour of drooling.) Believe me, Movie mode with D-Nice settings can't be beat. The colors are so natural not over-saturated at all, and the gray-scale/shadow detail can't be beat. With those settings, it is simply the best TV/PQ I have ever experienced in my life. With movie mode you can just set it and forget it.

When you press "display" on your remote, the resolution that it shows on the screen (480p/1080i/etc) is only to show you the resolution on the incoming signal.



Sure you don't want to rethink this one:

"When it says "1080p", that means what you are seeing is 1080p up-converted to 1080p"

A_C

......As a 5010 owner, would I be correct to assume the instructions on how to get to the SM on my model and the values for the grey scale calibration are somewhere in the 8G calibration/settings thread? ......

yes the SM access for 8g models is on page 2, post #58 of the 8g settings thread. d-nices reference settings are on page 1.

many post later in the thread have the offsets that owners are using when they do go into the SM.

D,

I trust your valuable input on this forum and I guess i'm looking for a little 'extra' reassurance .... I posted my auditioning experience today with the 5020 while at BB on the non-elite 9g thread. Tell me i'm off base and that this set will, in fact, really excel on 'movie' mode in a darkened HT environment :D i've re-read your review and noted you suggest avoiding 'dynamic' mode explicitly, (which I can usually understand under dark room conditions) however, at our local BB this mode simply looked stunning! Creating a 3D depth and richness to the pic that no other display in the store could match (even the 5010 sitting next to it). And, yes, I understand it should look impressive with the brighter environment.And,of course, 'Movie' mode (understandably) looked less than impressive considering the lighting. Bottom line is .... I guess i'm affraid of getting this set home and the recommended 'Movie' mode still looking a little too suttle for my taste and not having a viable alternative setting to use (considering your opinion on the remaining picture modes and the limited user adj.) Am I needlessly worrying about this :confused:


My AV room is a basement with limited natural light during day and none at night.
I use D-Nice Movie mode settings. Looks great on everything.
The Dynamic mode in a darkened AV environment looks a little bright to me as do all of the others based on how they are set stock from factory. Some may prefer the LCD -ish look though.

Movie mode is excellent and I previously had a 5080 with more user settings and this is better by a significant margin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyns78 View Post
D-Nice - is calibrating the non-elites via the service menu something the average avsforum user will be able to do with a proper guide.....


Not sure. However, it's really quite easy.


D-Nice - So is this guide something you feel comfortable sharing with end users here?

I think D-Nice has indicated that he is still not through figuring out exactly how much can be done with these sets. Having followed his posts for a long time, I expect he will be very thorough in his testing but that, when he is finished, we will all get to see those results. I think a little patience is called for.

yes the SM access for 8g models is on page 2, post #58 of the 8g settings thread. d-nices reference settings are on page 1.

many post later in the thread have the offsets that owners are using when they do go into the SM.

Thank you very much!!! :)

John

Everyone,

I'm happy to report that the 9G non-Elites can officially be calibrated :)

Colorspace selection may also be capable. I will report back later.

Hot diggity dog! :D

I got to compare a 5010 and 5020 side-by-side the other day. I used the same remote to take them out of Dynamic mode. I adjusted them by eye to look as similar as possible. What did I think? Well, to be honest, besides the slightly better color saturation, I wasn't terribly impressed. The blacks were a little deeper, but if they weren't side-by-side I'd probably either not notice at all or only notice in a lowly lit environment.

I think one of the things that really urked me was the lack of picture options. As we all found out from D-Nice's review, everything is kind of locked out or hard wired and chosen by Pioneer to give the best overall picture. I am very unhappy about this. I feel that I can tweak the picture of the 5010 more to my liking. No, the blacks aren't as deep and there is a little red push, but I know how to remove the red push using the SM. As for the blacks, sure I wish I had the deeper ink, but the 5010 was actually sharper and more detailed to my eyes than the 5020. I'll take the sharper SD and HD picture over the slightly better blacks any day.

So am I the only one? If so, oh well. I just wanted to post my $0.02. I am a very happy 8th gen owner. :)

P.S. This is in no offense to anyone.

As a 5010 owner who has not yet seen a 5020, but talked to some other owners prior to pulling the trigger on a fantastic deal......... I would have to say I agree with you. There is no argument that the 5020 has deeper blacks, but I don't watch in a totally blacked out room, just a dimmly lit one. The removal of too many adjustments in the 5020 was more than I could live with, and the price for an Elite was double my 5010. Also, your comments about the sharpness pan out with some other comments I've read. While not as black, I personally prefer the additional adjustment capability and the very sharp picture. To each his own, the 5020/6020 still beats everything out there except an Elite. Had the price I paid for the 5010 been close to a 5020 I think I would have had a real dilemma.

John

These comments are very similar to my thinking on this issue. I saw the 8G 110 and 9G 111 almost side-by-side (a Panasonic 850 was between) and if it weren't for an interview scene with an all-black background, I wouldn't have noted much of a difference either. With the right kind of feed the 9G blacks will look obviously better, I think, but this isn't to say the 8G sets are bad. As important as they are, black levels are only one part of PQ, and for many (such as yourselves) picture controls are also important. I'm trying to weigh all important (to me) aspects of a TV, and mainain a sense of perspective about it all. Reality (aka "budget") has a lot to say as well. I hope to see both generations set up properly and fed the same variety of material next week; that should settle it for me once and for all. The remaining 8Gs won't be around forever, so a decision must be made soon.

Plus, there's that nagging issue of the 9G having fewer analog connections than the 8G (and other TVs as well).

I was in BB the other day as well, and I compared the 5010 to the 5020 and the 5020 IMO was the better TV by quite a good margin. (8G still better than everyother plasma besides 9Gs). It impressed me so much that I bought it and took it home right then and there (well, after about an hour of drooling.) Believe me, Movie mode with D-Nice settings can't be beat. The colors are so natural not over-saturated at all, and the gray-scale/shadow detail can't be beat. With those settings, it is simply the best TV/PQ I have ever experienced in my life. With movie mode you can just set it and forget it.

They finally put up a 5020 (and it's currently on sale, surprisingly) at one of the BB's in the area here and I got to see it today. There was a 5010 above it, a Panasonic to the left (unsure of the model number) and Samsung plasma beyond that. On the BB loop where you see the field of red tulips (or whatever), the 5020 had a much richer red. The Panasonic and Samsung reds were actually brighter and a bit washed out in comparison. No idea what mode was set and I didn't even try to ask for the remote since it was a quick stop. The 5020 definitely had better blacks than the 5010 above it (and overall was brighter than the 5010) and trumped anything nearby including a Samsung LCD to the right. I did, however, notice a distinct glow at the end of the video loop when the screen goes black, and this is in the lit store, not the Magnolia room. On a side note, I hate looking at 50" plasmas lined up and stacked on a huge wall with other TVs. It makes the 50" look too small. Thus I'm back and forth between the 5020 and 6020.

These comments are very similar to my thinking on this issue. I saw the 8G 110 and 9G 111 almost side-by-side (a Panasonic 850 was between) and if it weren't for an interview scene with an all-black background, I wouldn't have noted much of a difference either. With the right kind of feed the 9G blacks will look obviously better, I think, but this isn't to say the 8G sets are bad. As important as they are, black levels are only one part of PQ, and for many (such as yourselves) picture controls are also important. I'm trying to weigh all important (to me) aspects of a TV, and mainain a sense of perspective about it all. Reality (aka "budget") has a lot to say as well. I hope to see both generations set up properly and fed the same variety of material next week; that should settle it for me once and for all. The remaining 8Gs won't be around forever, so a decision must be made soon.

Plus, there's that nagging issue of the 9G having fewer analog connections than the 8G (and other TVs as well).

"I hope to see both generations set up properly and fed the same variety of material next week"

I look forward to you sharing the results with us!

John

When you press "display" on your remote, the resolution that it shows on the screen (480p/1080i/etc) is only to show you the resolution on the incoming signal.
When it says "480i", that means what you are seeing is 480i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "480p", that means what you are seeing is 480p upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "720i", that means what you are seeing is 720i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "720p", that means what you are seeing is 720p upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "1080i", that means what you are seeing is 1080i upconverted to 1080p.
When it says "1080p", that means what you are seeing is 1080p upconverted to 1080p.

you are always seeing 1080p. the quality and resolution of the source is why you see differences

at 1080p, does it show 30fps or 60fps? (video sources, not film sources).

at 1080p, does it show 30fps or 60fps?

No, just the resolution of the incoming signal.

No, just the resolution of the incoming signal.


Since the native resolution of the display is 1080p, I can only assume that everything is converted to 1080p.

However there's also the issue of FPS. I know video is generally 30fps.

So I was wondering if the 151FD also converts the FPS to 60 on all video sources.

Or does the 151FD show all video sources at 30fps?


(I know that film sources is shown at 72fps with the advanced setting, but that's something different.)

So I was wondering if the 151FD also converts the FPS to 60 on all video sources.Yes.

They finally put up a 5020 (and it's currently on sale, surprisingly) at one of the BB's in the area here and I got to see it today. There was a 5010 above it, a Panasonic to the left (unsure of the model number) and Samsung plasma beyond that. On the BB loop where you see the field of red tulips (or whatever), the 5020 had a much richer red. The Panasonic and Samsung reds were actually brighter and a bit washed out in comparison. No idea what mode was set and I didn't even try to ask for the remote since it was a quick stop. The 5020 definitely had better blacks than the 5010 above it (and overall was brighter than the 5010) and trumped anything nearby including a Samsung LCD to the right. I did, however, notice a distinct glow at the end of the video loop when the screen goes black, and this is in the lit store, not the Magnolia room. On a side note, I hate looking at 50" plasmas lined up and stacked on a huge wall with other TVs. It makes the 50" look too small. Thus I'm back and forth between the 5020 and 6020.

that is sooo true when you go to bb and you see the 50 inch plasmas. they look tiny! could be a selling plow to make you buy a bigger tv. when you go into realy home theater stores and u see those 50 inch plasmas on their own they look big.

I was in BB the other day as well, and I compared the 5010 to the 5020 and the 5020 IMO was the better TV by quite a good margin. (8G still better than everyother plasma besides 9Gs). It impressed me so much that I bought it and took it home right then and there (well, after about an hour of drooling.) Believe me, Movie mode with D-Nice settings can't be beat. The colors are so natural not over-saturated at all, and the gray-scale/shadow detail can't be beat. With those settings, it is simply the best TV/PQ I have ever experienced in my life. With movie mode you can just set it and forget it.



Thanks to Piobeer and LKDog for taking the time for a response to my post.

Frankly, I think i'm trying to over analyze this decision (to MUCH reading on the forum:rolleyes:) Far easier to just go buy one of the damn things and see for myself:D

Since the native resolution of the display is 1080p, I can only assume that everything is converted to 1080p.

However there's also the issue of FPS. I know video is generally 30fps.

So I was wondering if the 151FD also converts the FPS to 60 on all video sources.

Or does the 151FD show all video sources at 30fps?


(I know that film sources is shown at 72fps with the advanced setting, but that's something different.)

Sorry, barnman, I though you were just asking what info the display gave. :o

Thanks to Piobeer and LKDog for taking the time for a response to my post.

Frankly, I think i'm trying to over analyze this decision (to MUCH reading on the forum:rolleyes:) Far easier to just go buy one of the damn things and see for myself:D

That's an important aspect of the process, keeping things natural. All the analysis, minutae and debate can make it more difficult. I plan to see the sets on my list, compare them, and buy according to my budget and needs.

just got a 5020 from Amazon with the CEVA white glove shipping and here was my experience. fyi, i'm located in West L.A.

- placed order Tue Jul 1, shipped the next day from "Columbus". i'm guessing that was Ohio.
- CEVA called on Mon Jul 7 to schedule delivery... we settled on Wed Jul 9 from 1-5pm
- on Wed, CEVA gave me a call right at 1p saying they'd be there in 20 minutes. they showed up at 2p. when i went down to the truck, i only noticed one box on the truck... it was a Panasonic 800U! "WTF guys?" apparently, they had dropped off my 5020 by mistake at their last delivery. luckily it was just a drop off and not the white glove install there. they went back and got my 5020 (just down the street) and brought it in. no cracks and no dead pixels.

Amazon/CEVA Pros: communication, delivery time, seemed to be careful with the product
Amazon/CEVA Cons: they might almost give your plasma to someone else ;)

nice street with 2 50" plasmas getting delivered on the same day :)

just got a 5020 from Amazon with the CEVA white glove shipping and here was my experience. fyi, i'm located in West L.A.

- placed order Tue Jul 1, shipped the next day from "Columbus". i'm guessing that was Ohio.
- CEVA called on Mon Jul 7 to schedule delivery... we settled on Wed Jul 9 from 1-5pm
- on Wed, CEVA gave me a call right at 1p saying they'd be there in 20 minutes. they showed up at 2p. when i went down to the truck, i only noticed one box on the truck... it was a Panasonic 800U! "WTF guys?" apparently, they had dropped off my 5020 by mistake at their last delivery. luckily it was just a drop off and not the white glove install there. they went back and got my 5020 (just down the street) and brought it in. no cracks and no dead pixels.

Amazon/CEVA Pros: communication, delivery time, seemed to be careful with the product
Amazon/CEVA Cons: they might almost give your plasma to someone else ;)

The person who got the 5020 was probably hoping the delivery guys wouldn't come back with his 800u.

just got a 5020 from Amazon with the CEVA white glove shipping and here was my experience. fyi, i'm located in West L.A.

- placed order Tue Jul 1, shipped the next day from "Columbus". i'm guessing that was Ohio.
- CEVA called on Mon Jul 7 to schedule delivery... we settled on Wed Jul 9 from 1-5pm
- on Wed, CEVA gave me a call right at 1p saying they'd be there in 20 minutes. they showed up at 2p. when i went down to the truck, i only noticed one box on the truck... it was a Panasonic 800U! "WTF guys?" apparently, they had dropped off my 5020 by mistake at their last delivery. luckily it was just a drop off and not the white glove install there. they went back and got my 5020 (just down the street) and brought it in. no cracks and no dead pixels.

Amazon/CEVA Pros: communication, delivery time, seemed to be careful with the product
Amazon/CEVA Cons: they might almost give your plasma to someone else ;)

Question....I'm thinking of getting a 6010 via Amazon, but I want to check something. Everyone around here has just great experiences with Amazon, but I have never purchased anything from there. I've noticed that even if you are buying on Amazon.com...the "seller" may be someone else other than them. Is it still the same thing? Are you still going to be dealing with Amazon for everything...including any possible returns?

Question....I'm thinking of getting a 6010 via Amazon, but I want to check something. Everyone around here has just great experiences with Amazon, but I have never purchased anything from there. I've noticed that even if you are buying on Amazon.com...the "seller" may be someone else other than them. Is it still the same thing? Are you still going to be dealing with Amazon for everything...including any possible returns?

NO! If you're buying from another seller there, you are subject to that seller's return policies, NOT Amazon's. Very important distinction.

NO! If you're buying from another seller there, you are subject to that seller's return policies, NOT Amazon's. Very important distinction.

Oh wow...I'm glad I asked! Thank you.

De-interlacing is one thing, but scaling is another. When we are talking about the difference between 480p and 1080p we talking about scaling -- and that the Kuros do very well.

I also compared my 8G Kuro's de-interlacing to the PS3 and found the Kuro to be better. The image had more detail and was more realistic with well authored titles like Star Wars. I wasn't so much looking at torture tests as real world viewing. I remember the Kuro having troubles with certain cadences compared to the HD-XA2 or the OPPO 983, but I don't put much value on that compared to the overall image that you get with the vast majority of released DVDs. I guess it depends on what is important to you. I personally tend to spend more time watching movies than calibration discs:)

It depends on whether you care about material (like concerts) that were originated from 480i video cameras, or whether you are exclusively interested in material originated at 24p (like feature films). It's relatively easy for a deinterlacer/scaler to do 3:2 pulldown compared to deinterlacing video-originated 480i material. The 150's scaler appears to do an adequate job of 3:2 pulldown as long as the 3:2 cadence is not broken. (This can happen if telecine-originated material is edited in the 480i domain; the Secrets web site has a good explanation of how this can happen and why it is important for a display's deinterlacer to re-acquire a broken 3:2 cadence quickly and smoothly.)

Would you guys purchase a floor model 6010 for $3499? I just got tempted at Best Buy... (I'm assuming demo pricing would probably be okay to discuss, I apologize if it is not)

I m interested in the 3:3 pulldown feature of this sets (5020)however in the manuel the 72HZ mode seems not available in 1080p@60! that is very strange, looks like the blu-ray 24p output is not supported? can anyone test that ?

Question....I'm thinking of getting a 6010 via Amazon, but I want to check something. Everyone around here has just great experiences with Amazon, but I have never purchased anything from there. I've noticed that even if you are buying on Amazon.com...the "seller" may be someone else other than them. Is it still the same thing? Are you still going to be dealing with Amazon for everything...including any possible returns?

My experience with Amazon was horrible and I would never buy from them again.
Got 2 dead 6010's in a row, both times only one delivery guy showed up instead of the two they promised, and everytime I called them I had to talk to someone in India who read all thier responses from a monitor. they send american jobs over to India to save thierselves money, but the customer ends up paying. Why not buy from a forum sponsor? You will probably get a better deal and will be giving your buisness to a "Down home" store where a handshake and a guarantee really mean something.
I like to be dealt with like a person and not an order number. And with Amazon, all you are is a number.
My experience with Robert@**************** was far better than my experience with amazon. And if I have problems or something I know Robert will be there on my side. you just can't beat that.

My experience with Amazon was horrible and I would never buy from them again.
Got 2 dead 6010's in a row, both times only one delivery guy showed up instead of the two they promised, and everytime I called them I had to talk to someone in India who read all thier responses from a monitor. they send american jobs over to India to save thierselves money, but the customer ends up paying. Why not buy from a forum sponsor? You will probably get a better deal.
I like to be dealt with like a person and not an order number. And with Amazon, all you are is a number.
My experience with Robert@**************** was far better than my experience with amazon. And if I have problems or something I know Robert will be there on my side. you just can't beat that.
I would gladly buy from a forum sponsor if I can get a better deal. Check the 9g Elite thread...I just asked you a question in there about this actually.

My experience with Amazon was horrible and I would never buy from them again.
Got 2 dead 6010's in a row, both times only one delivery guy showed up instead of the two they promised, and everytime I called them I had to talk to someone in India who read all thier responses from a monitor. they send american jobs over to India to save thierselves money, but the customer ends up paying. Why not buy from a forum sponsor? You will probably get a better deal and will be giving your buisness to a "Down home" store where a handshake and a guarantee really mean something.
I like to be dealt with like a person and not an order number. And with Amazon, all you are is a number.
My experience with Robert@**************** was far better than my experience with amazon. And if I have problems or something I know Robert will be there on my side. you just can't beat that.

After dealing with Amazon I have to agree with Chad here. Although my 5020 came in great shape after 8 days, it was a very stressful 8 days with trouble tracking my package and having to call Amazon and CEVA several times to even figure out where the TV was. I don't doubt that working with a forum sponsor would have some great benefits on a personal level, but if you're not going to be too uptight about it, then Amazon wasn't so bad. I'm satisfied.

I m interested in the 3:3 pulldown feature of this sets (5020)however in the manuel the 72HZ mode seems not available in 1080p@60! that is very strange, looks like the blu-ray 24p output is not supported? can anyone test that ?

I could very well be wrong, but that makes perfect sense to me. I think you might be confused - if you have 1080P @ 60hz source material, then you don't want 72hz - you would want 60hz or some multiple of 60. If you have 24hz material, such as films, you would want 72hz or some multiple of 24hz, such as 48hz or 120hz. The point of 72hz is to avoid the judder introduced when mashing it into a 60hz display. Most BluRay players, if not all, will be able to output 1080P @ 24hz - such as the PS3. Your 5020 will use the 72hz mode to effectively display the 24hz source without having to modify it to 60hz.

Feel free to correct me, I'm by no means an expert ;)

This is for D-Nice or anyone that knows the real answer to this question.
I have the ps3 and the 5020. I have been using D-Nice's movie settings and they are great. I only tweaked teh colour up to my liking. However, last night i was playing with teh ps3 settings during a movie so i could get direct comparisons. I went into video settings and was switching between RGB colour and Yp/Cb/Rc/Bp or whatever the letters are. and the setting i usually had the ps3 on was the Yp/Cb... so when i switched to RGB i noticed the colours in the movie had alot more pop to them. then went i swtiched back the colours were more soft. So i was thinking if I did not tweak D-Nice's colours up a couple notches on the RGB setting would the be the correct ps3 setting. So in other words, my question is should i be using the RGB colour or the Yp/Pb/Rc.. thing? Let me know, thanks

PS3 has applicable settings in the BD/DVD Video output format for HDMI and the General Display Settings.

If you were going to set it manually for your set the best setting generally is BD/DVD to YPb/CbPr/Cr however as D-Nice points out Automatic should be safest allowing the PS3 to negotiate it based on source and your set's input capabilities. Most times you should find it using YPb/CbPr/Cr that setting anyway.

Also in general display settings using your Kuro you should also have YPb/CbPr/Cr/SuperWhite to On.

Here's an excellent post by MS video professional sspears on the subject.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10630977&&#post10630977

Everyone,

I'm happy to report that the 9G non-Elites can officially be calibrated :)

Colorspace selection may also be capable. I will report back later.

Excellent news, if for no other reason than make us "non-elites" feel better about our investment. Whether we actually calibrate it or not, we know that we can. :D

Thanks D-nice. Looking forward to the how-to guide as it sounds a like any prospective pro ISF calibrator will need some specific knowledge about the 9G Non-elites to do a good calibration anyway.

I would gladly buy from a forum sponsor if I can get a better deal. Check the 9g Elite thread...I just asked you a question in there about this actually.

It really DOES matter whom you buy from as problems can arise unexpectedly, and it is the support from the Seller that means most in these unfortunate circumstances. If going the online buying route, checkout the AVS Forum Sponsors first & foremost. These guys have a good long reputation of satisfying their clients.

jrcorwin,

You basically have as options, buying from a brick and mortar store like Best Buy(probably the most expensive option), buying from a Forum sponser, and buying from somebody like Amazon which actually subdivides into it being a direct sale from Amazon or a sale from one of their associate merchants.

With each option, you have pros and cons.

Questions that should be asked are: When will it arrive, who will bring it in and set it up(many of us help if only one guy delivers the set if we're physically capable), if it arrives damaged what then and one other issue that I experienced that I don't see anyone else mentioning and that is what if there is a price drop the day after you order it..do you get benefit for the drop? On that last one, the forum sponser I purchased a plasma from didn't pass along the $500 price drop (the day after I ordered it) even though I have reason to believe that he was aware of it coming and said nothing. Had it been Amazon(purchase from Amazon and not one of their affiliates), I believe you can get credited with the price drop within so many days.

As far as loosing your money due to damage with any of these sellers, I think as long as you put it on your credit card, you're covered. One of the better known forum sponsers that we hear about a lot on this forum tried to burn me on a bad component a few years ago. My credit card company stepped in and got my money back. Don't just assume that all forum sponsers are golden and will act in your best interest. Just be sure that you put it on a credit card.

Ultimately, I think the biggest concern is that if your set arrives damaged that you're out your payment. Given that if you put it on your credit card, your downside risk is the same regardless who you purchase it from. Next question in my book, is what happens if there is a price drop within 30 days. That needs to be weighed against current price. If Amazon has it for the same price as a forum sponser and Amazon gives you a 30 day price protection and the sponser doesn't, then I'd go with Amazon.

Now I'll probably get flamed for not blindly supporting forum sponsers, but I say do support them. Just be sure to ask the right questions and be satisfied with the answers.

It really DOES matter whom you buy from as problems can arise unexpectedly, and it is the support from the Seller that means most in these unfortunate circumstances. If going the online buying route, checkout the AVS Forum Sponsors first & foremost. These guys have a good long reputation of satisfying their clients.

Service is a sales tool. Not every vendor gets that. I try to buy (especially on an expensive item like a TV) from one who does. I'll remember how well I was treated and be back the next time I'm in the market for something.

It really DOES matter whom you buy from as problems can arise unexpectedly, and it is the support from the Seller that means most in these unfortunate circumstances. If going the online buying route, checkout the AVS Forum Sponsors first & foremost. These guys have a good long reputation of satisfying their clients.


Certainly can recommend Robert at Value Electronics and Roman O at Clarity.
Not just because I got units from them-they actually handled problem issues that came up for me very professionally.

jrcorwin,

You basically have as options, buying from a brick and mortar store like Best Buy(probably the most expensive option), buying from a Forum sponser, and buying from somebody like Amazon which actually subdivides into it being a direct sale from Amazon or a sale from one of their associate merchants.

With each option, you have pros and cons.

Questions that should be asked are: When will it arrive, who will bring it in and set it up(many of us help if only one guy delivers the set if we're physically capable), if it arrives damaged what then and one other issue that I experienced that I don't see anyone else mentioning and that is what if there is a price drop the day after you order it..do you get benefit for the drop? On that last one, the forum sponser I purchased a plasma from didn't pass along the $500 price drop (the day after I ordered it) even though I have reason to believe that he was aware of it coming and said nothing. Had it been Amazon(purchase from Amazon and not one of their affiliates), I believe you can get credited with the price drop within so many days.

As far as loosing your money due to damage with any of these sellers, I think as long as you put it on your credit card, you're covered. One of the better known forum sponsers that we hear about a lot on this forum tried to burn me on a bad component a few years ago. My credit card company stepped in and got my money back. Don't just assume that all forum sponsers are golden and will act in your best interest. Just be sure that you put it on a credit card.

Ultimately, I think the biggest concern is that if your set arrives damaged that you're out your payment. Given that if you put it on your credit card, your downside risk is the same regardless who you purchase it from. Next question in my book, is what happens if there is a price drop within 30 days. That needs to be weighed against current price. If Amazon has it for the same price as a forum sponser and Amazon gives you a 30 day price protection and the sponser doesn't, then I'd go with Amazon.

Now I'll probably get flamed for not blindly supporting forum sponsers, but I say do support them. Just be sure to ask the right questions and be satisfied with the answers.


You do not have to and should not accept a damaged unit.
You need to inspect the unit before acceptance and should be allowed to look at the glass before you sign off. If they will not allow that-do not accept it.
Additionally you can sign as "accepting pending internal inspection".

The vendors and PIO distribution centers have insurance on the shipping to your house.

I had a damaged unit delivered with forklift holes in the side of a taped up box. The stand and lower bezel were smashed.
Refused delivery and had a new one shipped out promptly by the forum sponsor.

I think that buying from a brick and mortar does offer easier return/replacement policies for non-warranty reasons(buzzing, or simply do not like it).
You will pay a much higher price and unless you pay for delivery, you have to get it to your house yourself.
If you dump it over in the back of the family pickup it is your $4000 doorstop then.:D

I think that buying from a brick and mortar does offer easier return/replacement policies for non-warranty reasons(buzzing, or simply do not like it).
You will pay a much higher price and unless you pay for delivery, you have to get it to your house yourself.
If you dump it over in the back of the family pickup it is your $4000 doorstop then.:D

:eek: If you don't know how to load a pick-up to the point that your TV might dump over back there, by all means pay the extra $75 for delivery! For both units that I've had, my son and I brought it home and set it up, without problem. With the first one, the store guys loaded the truck, first handtrucking it up their stairs, then laying it down on its back in my truck. It was when we were unloading that I saw the warning NOT to do that. So with the second unit, we loaded it and kept it upright the whole time. I trust our handling of these things way more than I trust any salesman or delivery guys.

I just wanted to add, for clarification, that some very well-known B&Ms will price match under the right circumstances, so the "much higher price" statement isn't necessarily true. I have been extremely satisfied with both the price and service that I've received from my local B&M.

Okay, enough price/buying talk. The moderators have been very sensitive about this lately, as it probably doesn't sit well with the forum sponsors.

Sounds like a good deal - I would add an additional warranty with it. Not quite as good as the 6020, but a lot better than most...and your saving close to a G.

Would you guys purchase a floor model 6010 for $3499? I just got tempted at Best Buy... (I'm assuming demo pricing would probably be okay to discuss, I apologize if it is not)

jrcorwin,

You basically have as options, buying from a brick and mortar store like Best Buy(probably the most expensive option), buying from a Forum sponser, and buying from somebody like Amazon which actually subdivides into it being a direct sale from Amazon or a sale from one of their associate merchants.

With each option, you have pros and cons.

Questions that should be asked are: When will it arrive, who will bring it in and set it up(many of us help if only one guy delivers the set if we're physically capable), if it arrives damaged what then and one other issue that I experienced that I don't see anyone else mentioning and that is what if there is a price drop the day after you order it..do you get benefit for the drop? On that last one, the forum sponser I purchased a plasma from didn't pass along the $500 price drop (the day after I ordered it) even though I have reason to believe that he was aware of it coming and said nothing. Had it been Amazon(purchase from Amazon and not one of their affiliates), I believe you can get credited with the price drop within so many days.

As far as loosing your money due to damage with any of these sellers, I think as long as you put it on your credit card, you're covered. One of the better known forum sponsers that we hear about a lot on this forum tried to burn me on a bad component a few years ago. My credit card company stepped in and got my money back. Don't just assume that all forum sponsers are golden and will act in your best interest. Just be sure that you put it on a credit card.

Ultimately, I think the biggest concern is that if your set arrives damaged that you're out your payment. Given that if you put it on your credit card, your downside risk is the same regardless who you purchase it from. Next question in my book, is what happens if there is a price drop within 30 days. That needs to be weighed against current price. If Amazon has it for the same price as a forum sponser and Amazon gives you a 30 day price protection and the sponser doesn't, then I'd go with Amazon.

Now I'll probably get flamed for not blindly supporting forum sponsers, but I say do support them. Just be sure to ask the right questions and be satisfied with the answers.

Thanks for the info.

:eek: If you don't know how to load a pick-up to the point that your TV might dump over back there, by all means pay the extra $75 for delivery! For both units that I've had, my son and I brought it home and set it up, without problem. With the first one, the store guys loaded the truck, first handtrucking it up their stairs, then laying it down on its back in my truck. It was when we were unloading that I saw the warning NOT to do that. So with the second unit, we loaded it and kept it upright the whole time. I trust our handling of these things way more than I trust any salesman or delivery guys.

I just wanted to add, for clarification, that some very well-known B&Ms will price match under the right circumstances, so the "much higher price" statement isn't necessarily true. I have been extremely satisfied with both the price and service that I've received from my local B&M.

Okay, enough price/buying talk. The moderators have been very sensitive about this lately, as it probably doesn't sit well with the forum sponsors.
I got my pro1150 from a local B&M at a great price. Their warehouse guy help me load it and assured me that laying it on its side will not affect it. They said they do it all the time and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. What's the logic behind it? Anybody?

I got my pro1150 from a local B&M at a great price. Their warehouse guy help me load it and assured me that laying it on its side will not affect it. They said they do it all the time and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. What's the logic behind it? Anybody?

When it bounces in a truck or van while lying flat there is a greater chance it can break I believe. There is a reason you see those trucks transporting glass standing upright.

I got my pro1150 from a local B&M at a great price. Their warehouse guy help me load it and assured me that laying it on its side will not affect it. They said they do it all the time and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. What's the logic behind it? Anybody?

When it bounces in a truck or van while lying flat there is a greater chance it can break I believe. There is a reason you see those trucks transporting glass standing upright.

The guys at my B&M said they do it all the time, too. So it kind of annoyed them, I think, when I said I'd prefer to go by Pioneer's recommendation that is clearly indicated on the box. :rolleyes:

One guy claimed the warning came from the earlier days of plasmas, when there was something about the gasses having to "re-settle" after the unit was in anything but its upright position. That one sounds kind of urban-legendish, but could be true for all I know. Another guy said it was just a common sense way to protect the glass panel. This one sounds more intuitive to me, but I really have no idea. I just know that Pioneer says to keep them upright, so I wanted the second one done that way. :)

Tweeter loaded ours in the truck flat, too. They said it was more important to be upright when traveling for longer periods of time. It arrived home with no problems.

jrcorwin,

You basically have as options, buying from a brick and mortar store like Best Buy(probably the most expensive option), buying from a Forum sponser, and buying from somebody like Amazon which actually subdivides into it being a direct sale from Amazon or a sale from one of their associate merchants.

With each option, you have pros and cons.

Questions that should be asked are: When will it arrive, who will bring it in and set it up(many of us help if only one guy delivers the set if we're physically capable), if it arrives damaged what then and one other issue that I experienced that I don't see anyone else mentioning and that is what if there is a price drop the day after you order it..do you get benefit for the drop? On that last one, the forum sponser I purchased a plasma from didn't pass along the $500 price drop (the day after I ordered it) even though I have reason to believe that he was aware of it coming and said nothing. Had it been Amazon(purchase from Amazon and not one of their affiliates), I believe you can get credited with the price drop within so many days.

As far as loosing your money due to damage with any of these sellers, I think as long as you put it on your credit card, you're covered. One of the better known forum sponsers that we hear about a lot on this forum tried to burn me on a bad component a few years ago. My credit card company stepped in and got my money back. Don't just assume that all forum sponsers are golden and will act in your best interest. Just be sure that you put it on a credit card.

Ultimately, I think the biggest concern is that if your set arrives damaged that you're out your payment. Given that if you put it on your credit card, your downside risk is the same regardless who you purchase it from. Next question in my book, is what happens if there is a price drop within 30 days. That needs to be weighed against current price. If Amazon has it for the same price as a forum sponser and Amazon gives you a 30 day price protection and the sponser doesn't, then I'd go with Amazon.

Now I'll probably get flamed for not blindly supporting forum sponsers, but I say do support them. Just be sure to ask the right questions and be satisfied with the answers.

The 30 day price increase/decrease policy of Amazon is great and all but it doesn't benifit that many people. Sometimes it does.
I would not let that be a deciding factor in my choice becasue there is a possibility you won't benefit from it.
And when you receive the unit you need to inspect it on delivery. If they don't allow it then write "subject to inspection" when you sign for it. When I had my 6020 delivered from Robert, I wrote "subject to inspection" even though we plugged the TV up and verified there was video.
The speakers take a while to put on and some delivery guys won't wait that long for you to verify the sound works. Instead of asking the delivery guys to wait whie I attached the speaker system, I just wrote "subject to inspection" because I had not verified that the sound worked.
Writing "subject to inspection" keeps the shipping company liable for damages even after delivery.
If the set is damaged or won't power up then simply reject delivery. If you were not allowed to inspect, then call the forum sponsor (whichever one) and tell them your set doesn't work. More than likely they will expedite you a new set immediatly (Amazon does NOT do this). With Amazon, they have to recieve the bad unit back before they will send the replacement (which could take up to a week). And when they send the replacement, they WILL NOT expedite it to you. You have to wait the 1-2 weeks all over again. It took me almost 3 weeks to get the 1st replacement 6010 from amazon, Which turned out to be DOA also so I had to reject delivery again then wait almost a week for them to recieve the 2nd damaged set back, Only to be told that they were out of 6010 stock and I would be getting a refund (that took over 3 weeks for them to put back on my Credit card).
I went thru over a month and a half of crap with amazon only to get my money back. What a big waste of time that was. And all the time there were people here on AVS telling me to go with a forum sponsor but I didn't.
From what I was told by Robert @ ****************, You don't have to deal with all this mess with a forum sponsor. They expedite the replacement to you as soon as they find out that your set is DOA.
IMO it is the smarter move to deal with a company that specializes in shipping and customer service of large flat-panel televisions, than it is to deal with a company that sells everything under the sun like Amazon.

I just calibrated the 50" Elite, and got excellent results. This is one case where manufacturer's claims are not just marketing hype.

I measured the on/off contrast as almost exactly double last year's models (28.2/0.0035 or 8,057:1 fL vs. 40.1/0.002 fL or 17,875:1).

What I find truly amazing about these displays is not the on/off CR, as great as it is (CRTs and the JVC RS2 front projector measure even higher). Where they are truly game-changing is their ANSI (checkerboard) CR. I got 6,500:1 on this set! This is 6 or 7 times better than any display I have ever encountered.

BTW, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the Elite model. Both versions have the high CR, but only the Elites will offer excellent color performance as well.

The 30 day price increase/decrease policy of Amazon is great and all but it doesn't benifit that many people. Sometimes it does.
I would not let that be a deciding factor in my choice becasue there is a possibility you won't benefit from it.
And when you receive the unit you need to inspect it on delivery. If they don't allow it then write "subject to inspection" when you sign for it. When I had my 6020 delivered from Robert, I wrote "subject to inspection" even though we plugged the TV up and verified there was video.
The speakers take a little while to put on and most delivery guys won't wait that long for you to verify the sound works. So I wrote "subject to inspection because I had no verified that the sound worked.
Signing "subject to inspection" keeps the shipping company liable for damages even after delivery.
If the set is damaged or won't power up then simply reject delivery. If you were not allowed to inspect, then call the forum sponsor (whichever one) and tell them your set doesn't work. More than likely they will expedite you a new set immediatly (Amazon does NOT do this). With Amazon, they have to recieve the bad unit back before they will send the replacement (which could take up to a week). And when they send the replacement, they WILL NOT expedite it to you. You have to wait the 1-2 weeks all over again. It took me almost 3 weeks to get the 1st replacement 6010 from amazon, Which turned out to be DOA also so I had to reject delivery again then wait almost a week for them to recieve the 2nd damaged set back, Only to be told that they were out of 6010 stock and I would be getting a refund (that took over 3 weeks for them to put back on my Credit card).

From what I was told by Robert @ ****************, You don't have to deal with all this mess with a forum sponsor. They expedite the replacement to you as soon as they find out that your set is DOA.
IMO it is the smarter move to deal with a company that specializes in shipping and customer service of large flat-panel televisions, than it is to deal with a company that sells everything under the sun like Amazon.

When you purchased from Robert...how long did it take from payment to delivery?

I just calibrated the 50" Elite, and got excellent results. This is one case where manufacturer's claims are not just marketing hype.

I measured the on/off contrast as almost exactly double last year's models (28.2/0.0035 or 8,057:1 fL vs. 40.1/0.002 fL or 17,875:1).

What I find truly amazing about these displays is not the on/off CR, as great as it is (CRTs and the JVC RS2 front projector measure even higher). Where they are truly game-changing is their ANSI (checkerboard) CR. I got 6,500:1 on this set! This is 6 or 7 times better than any display I have ever encountered.

BTW, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the Elite model. Both versions have the high CR, but only the Elites will offer excellent color performance as well.

6500:1

:eek:

Tom, did you use the standard Controls or the ISFccc Interface?


-S

When you purchased from Robert...how long did it take from payment to delivery?

From what I remember , it was about 6 buisness days. But I would have to go look up my records to find out for sure. I have heard of some getting them faster.

From what I remember , it was about 6 buisness days. But I would have to go look up my records to find out for sure. I have heard of some getting them faster.

Don't worry about looking it up. That sounds fine. I was curious. Thanks.

chadmak09,

Was your purchase from Amazon or one of their affiliate dealers?

6500:1

:eek:

Tom, did you use the standard Controls or the ISFccc Interface?The standard controls, which are quite good for this display.

The 30 day price increase/decrease policy of Amazon is great and all but it doesn't benifit that many people. Sometimes it does.
I would not let that be a deciding factor in my choice becasue there is a possibility you won't benefit from it.
And when you receive the unit you need to inspect it on delivery. If they don't allow it then write "subject to inspection" when you sign for it. When I had my 6020 delivered from Robert, I wrote "subject to inspection" even though we plugged the TV up and verified there was video.
The speakers take a while to put on and some delivery guys won't wait that long for you to verify the sound works. Instead of asking the delivery guys to wait whie I attached the speaker system, I just wrote "subject to inspection" because I had not verified that the sound worked.
Writing "subject to inspection" keeps the shipping company liable for damages even after delivery.
If the set is damaged or won't power up then simply reject delivery. If you were not allowed to inspect, then call the forum sponsor (whichever one) and tell them your set doesn't work. More than likely they will expedite you a new set immediatly (Amazon does NOT do this). With Amazon, they have to recieve the bad unit back before they will send the replacement (which could take up to a week). And when they send the replacement, they WILL NOT expedite it to you. You have to wait the 1-2 weeks all over again. It took me almost 3 weeks to get the 1st replacement 6010 from amazon, Which turned out to be DOA also so I had to reject delivery again then wait almost a week for them to recieve the 2nd damaged set back, Only to be told that they were out of 6010 stock and I would be getting a refund (that took over 3 weeks for them to put back on my Credit card).
I went thru over a month and a half of crap with amazon only to get my money back. What a big waste of time that was. And all the time there were people here on AVS telling me to go with a forum sponsor but I didn't.
From what I was told by Robert @ ****************, You don't have to deal with all this mess with a forum sponsor. They expedite the replacement to you as soon as they find out that your set is DOA.
IMO it is the smarter move to deal with a company that specializes in shipping and customer service of large flat-panel televisions, than it is to deal with a company that sells everything under the sun like Amazon.

Chad, was this bad experience with Amazon itself, or a third-party seller on their site? The reason I ask is because every time I have ever had to replace a defective product with Amazon (it was few times and never a big TV), they sent replacement immediately and gave me something like a month to send the defective item back. On the other hand, I have dealt with third-party sellers that I would now avoid like the plague....

I just calibrated the 50" Elite, and got excellent results. This is one case where manufacturer's claims are not just marketing hype.

I measured the on/off contrast as almost exactly double last year's models (28.2/0.0035 or 8,057:1 fL vs. 40.1/0.002 fL or 17,875:1).

What I find truly amazing about these displays is not the on/off CR, as great as it is (CRTs and the JVC RS2 front projector measure even higher). Where they are truly game-changing is their ANSI (checkerboard) CR. I got 6,500:1 on this set! This is 6 or 7 times better than any display I have ever encountered.

BTW, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the Elite model. Both versions have the high CR, but only the Elites will offer excellent color performance as well.

Tom,

In real world content what do 17,875:1 to 1 and 6,500:1 translate to?

Also, did you notice CS2 in accuracy as it was discussed a few days ago?

Chad, was this bad experience with Amazon itself, or a third-party seller on their site? The reason I ask is because every time I have ever had to replace a defective product with Amazon (it was few times and never a big TV), they sent replacement immediately and gave me something like a month to send the defective item back. On the other hand, I have dealt with third-party sellers that I would now avoid like the plague....

This was amazon itself not a third party. I was just like you and avoided third partys. The 30 day return policy is why I ended up going with Amazon (but alot of good that did me with 2 dead TV's).
With televisions you have to send them back and before they send the replacement.
I had sent them an email asking all about this and got a response from India telling me there was no expediting of replacements and they have to confirm return delivery of the defective set before they will start the process of sending you a new one. Wish I would have saved that email I would post it for everyone.
And explaining that the replacement was also defective to the guy from India was not fun. I kept saying "I can't understand you, could you please repeat that sentence?" and the guy was actualy laughing at me like there was something wrong with me because I could not understand his accent. lol.

Tweeter loaded ours in the truck flat, too. They said it was more important to be upright when traveling for longer periods of time. It arrived home with no problems.

The are WRONG. You should always keep it vertical when transporting. It is glass, torsion will crack it. Even if the glass does not break you can have other problems. I had a NEC plasma delivered years ago that on its back that did not crack but the menus displayed in Klingon. I had it replaced.

Clearly knuckle draggers :p

- Rich

I just calibrated the 50" Elite, and got excellent results. This is one case where manufacturer's claims are not just marketing hype.

I measured the on/off contrast as almost exactly double last year's models (28.2/0.0035 or 8,057:1 fL vs. 40.1/0.002 fL or 17,875:1).

What I find truly amazing about these displays is not the on/off CR, as great as it is (CRTs and the JVC RS2 front projector measure even higher). Where they are truly game-changing is their ANSI (checkerboard) CR. I got 6,500:1 on this set! This is 6 or 7 times better than any display I have ever encountered.

BTW, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the Elite model. Both versions have the high CR, but only the Elites will offer excellent color performance as well.

Wow, Tom.

This is just the sort of information I've been wanting. Thank you so much--you've saved me a big bunch of research time.

Yours,

David

I own the pro 111 fd that Tom Huffman calibrated yesterday and would say the difference in picture quality is very noticeable. Even the standard analog channels on Comcast come in much better. Watched a bluray disc last night and wow , it was just fantastic.
Tom did a great job and if you are in the Baltimore Washington area, I would highly recommend him to you. and yes he was very impressed with the contrast ratios on the checkerboard pattern. You have to see it to believe it. He also discovered that my film mode was off, not set to standard, smooth, or advanced, perhaps the factory settings are not that reliable. Something for prospective owners to check right away. This week I will be getting the new Pioneer vsx 1018AH receiver to complement the setup. Thanks again to Tom for a great job.
Mary

In real world content what do 17,875:1 to 1 and 6,500:1 translate to?The high on/off CR means that dark scenes will look realistic and not suffer from a gray haze that displays with significantly lower CR are often afflicted by. The effects of the high ANSI contrast are less well understood. It is one measure of the display's ability to produce intra-image contrast and it may have an effect on image depth, as on/off CR does as well.

By way of comparison, the latest Panasonics are about 4000:1 on/off, 800:1 ANSI. Now contrast is just one measurement of image performance. There are a lot of other factors that play a big role in how satisfying an image appears. For example, I really like the new Samsung plasmas and their contrast is a fraction of the Kuro's. The great thing about the Kuro Elites is that they seem to do just about everything else well also.

Also, did you notice CS2 in accuracy as it was discussed a few days ago?Absolutely. In Color Space 2, the color is scarily accurate. The only tweaks I made were some minor adjustments to the secondaries in the CMS. I also had to turn the main Color control up a couple of ticks, because the color brightness was a little low by default. This may have been what a couple of reviewers saw when they reported that CS2 measured well but preferred CS1 because CS2 looked like it was clipping color. All they had to do was adjust the Color control a little.

After those two small adjustments, in the CS2 mode this display's color is very close to perfect. Putting it in CS1 would be a big mistake IHMO.

Nice numbers Tom :) However, I think your On/Off contrast number is off. 40.1fL peak/0.002fL minimum luminance = 20,050:1

ok just got my 5020 via ceva eagle from amazon and upon initial inspection everythign appears fine.... no cosmetic damage and it turns on for now.... now question.... i need to wall mount this sucker.. does best buy wall mount peoples panel if u buy the tv from else where.. and if they dont who should i try im in miami....

BB will do it for you, their Geek Squad, also you can try some of the smaller stores locally.

ok just got my 5020 via ceva eagle from amazon and upon initial inspection everythign appears fine.... no cosmetic damage and it turns on for now.... now question.... i need to wall mount this sucker.. does best buy wall mount peoples panel if u buy the tv from else where.. and if they dont who should i try im in miami....

BB will try to entice you to return the unit to amazon by dropping there price, they always do. But they will no doubt mount your screen for you, that is where they make most of there money anyway.

Nice numbers Tom :) However, I think your On/Off contrast number is off. 40.1fL peak/0.002fL minimum luminance = 20,050:1I was rounding the lower number. It is slightly higher than 0.002.

I was rounding the lower number. It is slightly higher than 0.002.Ahh. I can't even read the minimum luminance level on the 6020 I have anymore. It comes in at 0fL.

Ahh. I can't even read the minimum luminance level on the 6020 I have anymore. It comes in at 0fL.

This is because you have recently discovered how to calibrate that 6020, correct?

I love the 6020 price, but was afraid I would regret not having the Elite control. I love what you are doing. Keep up the good work.

This is because you have recently discovered how to calibrate that 6020, correct?Yep.

This is because you have recently discovered how to calibrate that 6020, correct?

I love the 6020 price, but was afraid I would regret not having the Elite control. I love what you are doing. Keep up the good work.

Yep.

Interesting. Does that mean it looks blacker to your eyes with no signal in a dark room?

- Rich

Interesting. Does that mean it looks blacker to your eyes with no signal in a dark room?

- Rich

I don't know if my experience is typical, but my Kuro actually looks less black with no signal than the blacks (or black bars) do when playing content. With no signal, it's kind of a dirty dark grey... looks ugly right before the movie starts. :rolleyes:

After dealing with Amazon I have to agree with Chad here. Although my 5020 came in great shape after 8 days, it was a very stressful 8 days with trouble tracking my package and having to call Amazon and CEVA several times to even figure out where the TV was. I don't doubt that working with a forum sponsor would have some great benefits on a personal level, but if you're not going to be too uptight about it, then Amazon wasn't so bad. I'm satisfied.

Dont assume buying from a forum sponsor will mean a good shipping experience. My TV shipped from Atlanta after I was promised a TV from southern california. The forum sponsor did not disclose this information (which at a minimum was unethical), and then provided false information about the actual ship date. The TV finally arrived over a week and a half later than originally promised. It was simply the worst buying experience I could have anticipated.

On the flip side, the sponsor took responsibility and both offered to cancel the order (which would mean even more delay) as well as worked with me as best they could to work out the situation.

They upgraded me to white glove delivery at no extra cost to me - but all I got was two people to carry the tv inside and open the case. They had NO idea how to even turn it on, let alone set it up.

My conclusion at the end was that the sponsor in question does care about its customers but they are limited in what they can and cannot do.

If Amazon had offered its current price 4 weeks ago (sponsor was higher) I would have bought from them simply because of the return policy.

I got lucky - no stuck pixels, no buzz, no cracked screen. But I am not so sure about buying from a smaller company. Yes, they will try harder to look after you - and I really did appreciate their efforts, but they are more limited than a larger company like Amazon.

Just my opinion - enjoy the kuro no matter where you buy from - its an AMAZING TV.

Guys, I plan on receiving my 6020 any day now and I have a question about burn-in/image retention on plasmas in general. I've ready numerous articles on this and most say to try to avoid leaving logos, etc. on the screen for long periods of time. My question is, how long is long? I was watching VH1-Classic the other day and noticed they had their logo displayed in the bottom right corner. It would disappear every now and then to show other advertisements, and it would also change colors from time to time and go away during commercials, but It was there the majority of the time during this 2-hour program. Would there be a concern with watching a single program (say 2 hours or so) with the logo displayed?

I own the pro 111 fd that Tom Huffman calibrated yesterday and would say the difference in picture quality is very noticeable.Thanks for the FIRST 9G calibration report! I've included your report along with Tom's two main posts in the new Pioneer Elite 111FD section of the list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Enjoy!

A coupe hours I think is a long time, even then it should yield only a brief, temporary IR even then. The first 150-200 hours of use you'll likely want to be a bit more cautious because the sets are more susceptible during this time period, but even then I don't think you'll need to worry too much.

Use the Orbiter mode, which will shift the picture a couple of pixels every-so-often to prevent IR even further.

ok guys... d nice the other day u told me if i had a psm 2000 or the other codes on there are psm 2051 and psm 2250 that i currently use to mount my panasonic comm model 42 inch.. well today i got my new 5020 and the holes are shorter in width while the panny are spread out 26 inch width the pioneer is 20 inch width... so this mount wont do i thought u guys told me it should work..

So is it time to start a 10G general discussion thread yet? :) I can't wait to here some more stuff about the Extreme Contrast Concept and the 10mm thick panels. Sorry, don't mean to thread crap here, but maybe someone here has heard new info on the 10Gs?

Hi everyone. I hope this question/topic would be okay in this thread, if not, please direct me to the right one. I just got the Elite 111 and currently on day 3 of the break in dvd. I plan on getting a PS3 for HD. Is it possible to use the PS3 as the media server to link to the Elite? BTW, no dead pixels, no clouding, just a faint buzz on the break in settings. Thank you.

hey d nice is there a official 9g calibration thread and why did my new 5020 kuro come without the kuro sticker...

......why did my new 5020 kuro come without the kuro sticker...

I've had two 151s. One had the Kuro sticker, the other one didn't. Your guess is as good as mine. :confused:

This has been asked several times, on both the 8G and 9G forums. I have not found an answer yet.

Are the elite 151FD stand legs (or what Pioneer calls 'stand pipes') interchangeable with the non-elite 6020 stand legs?

I have a wall-mount (thanks, Roman), but at the moment I can't drill in my apartment. The TV sits a little too tall to fit in my old entertainment center, so I need to lose about 4 inches of height...

The replacement stand legs are the STAND PIPE L ASS'Y listed here:
PRO-151FD (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PRO-151FD) part #AXY1222
PDP6020FD (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PDP6020FD) part #AXY1211

If any elite 151 owners need 4 inches of extra height on their panel, let me know if you're interested in a trade. Otherwise, it's off to parts & accessories I go!

maybe Pioneer figured out how ugly it looked especially on an Elite and stopped wasting $$ and time putting them on......

This has been asked several times, on both the 8G and 9G forums. I have not found an answer yet.

Are the elite 151FD stand legs (or what Pioneer calls 'stand pipes') interchangeable with the non-elite 6020 stand legs?

I have a wall-mount (thanks, Roman), but at the moment I can't drill in my apartment. The TV sits a little too tall to fit in my old entertainment center, so I need to lose about 4 inches of height...

The replacement stand legs are the STAND PIPE L ASS'Y listed here:
PRO-151FD (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PRO-151FD) part #AXY1222
PDP6020FD (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PDP6020FD) part #AXY1211

If any elite 151 owners need 4 inches of extra height on their panel, let me know if you're interested in a trade. Otherwise, it's off to parts & accessories I go!

you might get a local machine shop to do it. could be much faster and cheaper. pioneer like panasonic usually way overcharge for stands.

I've had two 151s. One had the Kuro sticker, the other one didn't. Your guess is as good as mine. :confused:

My 111 was sticker free as well.

The high on/off CR means that dark scenes will look realistic and not suffer from a gray haze that displays with significantly lower CR are often afflicted by. The effects of the high ANSI contrast are less well understood. It is one measure of the display's ability to produce intra-image contrast and it may have an effect on image depth, as on/off CR does as well.

By way of comparison, the latest Panasonics are about 4000:1 on/off, 800:1 ANSI. Now contrast is just one measurement of image performance. There are a lot of other factors that play a big role in how satisfying an image appears. For example, I really like the new Samsung plasmas and their contrast is a fraction of the Kuro's. The great thing about the Kuro Elites is that they seem to do just about everything else well also.

Absolutely. In Color Space 2, the color is scarily accurate. The only tweaks I made were some minor adjustments to the secondaries in the CMS. I also had to turn the main Color control up a couple of ticks, because the color brightness was a little low by default. This may have been what a couple of reviewers saw when they reported that CS2 measured well but preferred CS1 because CS2 looked like it was clipping color. All they had to do was adjust the Color control a little.

After those two small adjustments, in the CS2 mode this display's color is very close to perfect. Putting it in CS1 would be a big mistake IHMO.

Thanks Tom for detailed explanation. I saw in the previous discussions about CS2 you had also mentioned that turning up the color brightness could be the culprit in CS2 not looking right even since the the color chart is not 3D. Is this a service menu setting or you mean move the "color" slider up?

does anyone have the link t owhere some users have a calibration thread up going for the 6020 or 5020.... i find movie to dull performance and standard when tweakd right looks crisp...optimum is smooth

guys i have another qustion.. well my tv looks amazing the blacks are awesome but my question is when theres no signal selected the tvs blacks doesnt look at all like the frame it looks like a black gray with light gray blotches all over the screen but as soon as a signal appears and it goes pitch black it looks ink black it just happens when theres no signal showing is this normal..

perfectly normal, every 6020/5020 has this blotching affect with no signal.

Is this a service menu setting or you mean move the "color" slider up?No. It's the color control in the user menu.

really thank god because i thought i had some image retention some blotching so soon... i thought without a signal output the 5020 was supposed to be almost pure black like the bezel or close enough with a slight glow.... anyways ive noticed that with direct tv hd the settings have to be tweaked over ps3 settings.. also would like to learn about the dot by dot settings, orbiter 2 settings and and on the zoom options if i leave it in auto... for some sort of reason in movie mode it seems way to soft for me so i tweak performance mode...

Some of you will think I'm nuts, but as an 8g owner I find myself lusting after one feature that the new 9g's have. The simple ability to transcode HDMI inputs and output them over the optical digital output is something I sorely miss in my 8g.

My wish list for my 10g.....

A. Give back the user controls in the User Menu.
B. Dual ATSC tuners, seems likely, how can they possibly include an NTSC tuner any longer, when they aren't even supported.
C. True two way cable card or something along those lines.
D. Infinite Contrast.

Some of you will think I'm nuts, but as an 8g owner I find myself lusting after one feature that the new 9g's have. The simple ability to transcode HDMI inputs and output them over the optical digital output is something I sorely miss in my 8g.

Wait...I must have missed something. I'm probably going to purchase a 6020. I missed this completely. Does what you are talking about apply to both Elite and non-Elite?

Just to clarify: Are you saying that if you have a component (let's say a DVD player for instance) connected via HDMI to the Kuro...that the optical output on Kuro will send the audio to your receiver in 5.1?

since the 9G pro monitor is 1920.. any chance for a 2560 pro monitor 10G ?

come on pioneer if theres a manufacturer that will take a plunge is you guys.. how about a 10G 2560 pro monitor? :)

no chance, not happening in the 10g.

So what is happening in the 10G? :D

no chance, not happening in the 10g.

11G ? :)

This is because you have recently discovered how to calibrate that 6020, correct?

I love the 6020 price, but was afraid I would regret not having the Elite control. I love what you are doing. Keep up the good work.

Yep.


steps/settings posted yet?

Some of you will think I'm nuts, but as an 8g owner I find myself lusting after one feature that the new 9g's have. The simple ability to transcode HDMI inputs and output them over the optical digital output is something I sorely miss in my 8g.



Do the 9G's maintain 5.1 when they do this? I thought it was forbidden by HDCP.

what is the best dvd player you use to get the most out of your SD DVD films i herd that if you get a dvd player that outputs 480i or 576i and let the pioneer do the rest is the best you can get from your SD DVDs is this true and what dvd player would you recomend for this tv

thanks for any help

The high on/off CR means that dark scenes will look realistic and not suffer from a gray haze that displays with significantly lower CR are often afflicted by. The effects of the high ANSI contrast are less well understood. It is one measure of the display's ability to produce intra-image contrast and it may have an effect on image depth, as on/off CR does as well.

By way of comparison, the latest Panasonics are about 4000:1 on/off, 800:1 ANSI. Now contrast is just one measurement of image performance. There are a lot of other factors that play a big role in how satisfying an image appears. For example, I really like the new Samsung plasmas and their contrast is a fraction of the Kuro's. The great thing about the Kuro Elites is that they seem to do just about everything else well also.


That's an important reminder, I think, since there seems to be so much focus on the Kuro black levels (they are good, of course). Other aspects of PQ count also.

This has been asked several times, on both the 8G and 9G forums. I have not found an answer yet.

Are the elite 151FD stand legs (or what Pioneer calls 'stand pipes') interchangeable with the non-elite 6020 stand legs?

I have a wall-mount (thanks, Roman), but at the moment I can't drill in my apartment. The TV sits a little too tall to fit in my old entertainment center, so I need to lose about 4 inches of height...

The replacement stand legs are the STAND PIPE L ASS'Y listed here:
PRO-151FD (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PRO-151FD) part #AXY1222
PDP6020FD (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PDP6020FD) part #AXY1211

If any elite 151 owners need 4 inches of extra height on their panel, let me know if you're interested in a trade. Otherwise, it's off to parts & accessories I go!

I have been really curious about this myself. Personally I think it would work, it just sounds logical not to design the two models that differently if only from a cost perspective. Also for that price I am tempted to give it a try as well. If you give it a go please post the results. Thanks for finding the part #'s and links!

I have been really curious about this myself. Personally I think it would work, it just sounds logical not to design the two models that differently if only from a cost perspective. Also for that price I am tempted to give it a try as well. If you give it a go please post the results. Thanks for finding the part #'s and links!

I can tell you that I spoke with a Pioneer Tech, and he confirmed that the Elite stands for the 50" 8G would fit the non-elite 5010 just fine, dropping it the 3" that was elevated for the below screen speaker. You can go to Pioneer Parts online, get the part number, then call their number and speak to a tech. In the end I saved the $200 cost of stand and shipping, and had a friend who fabricates as part of his sign business, cut my stand down. Now it looks perfect and sits just like the Elites. I need to take pics and post.

John

I can tell you that I spoke with a Pioneer Tech, and he confirmed that the Elite stands for the 50" 8G would fit the non-elite 5010 just fine, dropping it the 3" that was elevated for the below screen speaker. You can go to Pioneer Parts online, get the part number, then call their number and speak to a tech. In the end I saved the $200 cost of stand and shipping, and had a friend who fabricates as part of his sign business, cut my stand down. Now it looks perfect and sits just like the Elites. I need to take pics and post.

John

Heck yes you need to post pictues.:)

what is the best dvd player you use to get the most out of your SD DVD films i herd that if you get a dvd player that outputs 480i or 576i and let the pioneer do the rest is the best you can get from your SD DVDs is this true and what dvd player would you recomend for this tv

thanks for any help
Boy, I'm sure this question has a few dozen answers, as this is sort of subjective. For me, I get the very best SD DVD picture by letting my Pioneer 95FD Blu-Ray player do the upconversion and sending that to my TV. I have other equipment that can play the SDs well, and I have an excellent Denon pre-pro with some of the best video processing available, but nothing seems to beat the 95FD to my eye. Of course, Blu-Rays also look fantastic. :D

These settings are currently off on my set. Can someone explain why CTI should be on and 3DYC set to mid? I was on another thread and someone had set these this way. Thanks;)

Not that I didn't post this about 2 months ago indicating that the pricing would be the same, but to make people feel better, this is confirmed:

Confirmed:

101FD MAP - $5000 (Oct)
141FD MAP - $6500 (Aug)

KRP-TS01 - $400 (Stand for 60")
KRP-TS02 - $200 (Stand for 50")

Posted in the Elite thread and the random Sig vs Elite thread as well...

Do the 9G's maintain 5.1 when they do this? I thought it was forbidden by HDCP.


I had posted a similar question in the Elite forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14279744#post14279744). I didn't get any responses, but it bet your assumption is the reason why I'm not getting 5.1.

Basically, I've tried to connect my DirecTv DVR to my 111 via HDMI and ouput a 5.1 signal to my reciever via back optical jack (so I can also use the home media gallery for playing music), but the only thing the reciever sees is Dolby Surround. Works fine if i connect optical out from the DVR directly, but not though the 111 despite having a menu feature that allows you to set "Dolby Digital" out. Very disappointing. :(

Very disappointing. :(It's also an industry standard. :(

Not that I didn't post this about 2 months ago indicating that the pricing would be the same, but to make people feel better, this is confirmed:

Confirmed:

101FD MAP - $5000 (Oct)
141FD MAP - $6500 (Aug)

KRP-TS01 - $400 (Stand for 60")
KRP-TS02 - $200 (Stand for 50")

Posted in the Elite thread and the random Sig vs Elite thread as well...


russ,

Any price drops coming from Pioneer like the other manufacturers?