No... The user calibration on the elites can get you much better PQ than the non-elites.
Much better? Might as well go with a more competitively priced and similarly (better?) performing plasma or LCD instead of the non-Elite (if that's your price range) in that case.:confused:

It's very refreshing to see other experts in their field finding ways to educate the laypeople.:o

I'd not really consider myself an expert. I only consider myself to be like Yogi, better than the average bear and not like the washed masses, Joe Six Pack. J6P and the other washed masses could educate themselves too. It's just a matter of caring. Lots of people just want back the olden days of buying a TV for the size they want and plug it in. Then the rabbit ears pick up whatever channel they want to flip to. Those days are long gone.

Well said ^^^^

-Robert

Unfortunately I seriously down the Canadian and American MSRPs will be the same, I'm relatively sure his pricing on the 20fd's is incorrect. I don't know of any confirmed Canadian pricing on them yet, but I would imagine the 5020 will be at least $4500CDN, and the 6020 will be around $6500CDN. I hope I'm wrong though.

Here's something good for people north of the border! :)

I got confirmation from a Pionner Canada Senior rep that availability AND pricing of Kuro plasmas should be the same in Canada and the US with "regular" sets available by end of June, Elite by mid-July and Signature in September. You can read his post (in French) at http://www.quebecaudio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16158&st=0&gopid=200369.

Again, this guy is a Senior rep from Pioneer Canada so he should be right. I must say that he wrote "should be the same" about the pricing so lets hope he's right.

That means that the article posted by Nambit (http://www.hereshow.ca/news_detail.asp?nid=1230) is indeed wrong: the MSRP for Elite models should be lower! :D

Cheers!

Pepin

Wow! I really hope you're right. I was going to get a 6020, but if the prices really will be the same in Canada, I might pick-up a 151 for my dad :)

pepin, I hope you and he are correct....I refuse to pay a 30-60% premium for my plasma this year, just because I am Canadian! Last year's Pioneers were so ridiculous in pricing here.....and we have no online stores here that even carry Pioneer, so we can't even get BB or FS to price match!

pepin, I hope you and he are correct....I refuse to pay a 30-60% premium for my plasma this year, just because I am Canadian! Last year's Pioneers were so ridiculous in pricing here.....and we have no online stores here that even carry Pioneer, so we can't even get BB or FS to price match!

Forget about BB and FS. I got a much better price for the Pro-150 in a BM shop in Montreal than the price I would get on a 6010 in FS. You read me right: the price for an Elite was like 700$ lower than the price I could get from FS on a regular Kuro. I sincerely think that despite the fact that the MSRP was much higher in Canada than in the US, the same was not quite true with the cost price of resellers, which gave us the possibility to get good rebates, depending on your dealing skills. :cool:

I PM you with the price I got for the Pro-150...

Pépin

Here's something good for people north of the border! :)

I got confirmation from a Pionner Canada Senior rep that availability AND pricing of Kuro plasmas should be the same in Canada and the US with "regular" sets available by end of June, Elite by mid-July and Signature in September.

That means that the article posted by Nambit (http://www.hereshow.ca/news_detail.asp?nid=1230) is indeed wrong: the MSRP for Elite models should be lower! :D

Cheers!

Pepin

Let's hope the guy is right! I think I'll wait for the Canadian press release
which, hopefully, will be happening soon. If I can get an Elite Pro-151 for
$6500 or below, then I might be back in action on the 9G front. I really
don't want to be stuck either waiting for the 10g or going for a laser TV
this fall (price should be good) because of my {now} limited budget.

(PS - Hey Pépin, I saw FS's cost on the 4280: $1330). :)

This is an impossible question to answer.

1) These displays have some significant variability. Some 8G Elites in the past can be setup to have nearly perfect color performance while others cannot. Some will work well in pure others will not. I had one for example the other day that was way desaturated in color space 2 and had to be calibrated in color space 1 to have good color performance. It seems to vary with the display factory calibration and phosphorus batch.

2) The 9G is not available so no one knows what they will look like.

3) Pioneer's CMS is not correctly implemented because the white will shift when non-white point CMS moves are made. This is not correct.

4) The difference in what is achievable with an external processor versus a display will depend on the sample chosen for comparison. In some cases the difference will be subtle while in others it will be less so.

I would purchase a RadianceXD with an Elite and calibrate it properly if you want to have certainty of the absolute best display performance. Unfortunately, that is a very expensive option. All other options are a crap shoot to some degree.

Thanks so much for all this info, Jeff. It's really useful! And after three years of researching, I learn from one of the most knowledgeable guys on the board, that it's basically all a crapshoot. :o LOL. Just as I suspected. I'll be asking some of these questions again after we've actually seen 9th generations. Thanks again!

When you say you had the "dreaded buzz", do you mean the type that came from the front of the panel (seemingly right out of the glass) or from the power supply? With my 8G, the buzz was not at all connected with the power supply. From the back, it was from both the left and right panels; in the front it seemed to coverge as a sound "beam" at its worst at ear level when someone sat across from the panel. Is this what you had before the fix? By the way, the reason I am using the past tense here is because I returned my 8G; I couldn't take the buzz.

If you did have a similar panel buzz, there is perhaps hope that there is a fix that will be engineered into the 9G's.

Hopefully rdb001 will respond. If it was indeed the directional panel buzz (heard from 0-15' away dead center) that was fixed it would be the first/only known fix of that issue and more specifics would be desired especially to those in the 8G Kuro buzz poll thread. If I had to wager, this did not fix the glass panel buzz but rather the power supply buzz (which has never been an issue to me since I have to go behind the TV to hear that one).

Forget about BB and FS. I got a much better price for the Pro-150 in a BM shop in Montreal than the price I would get on a 6010 in FS. You read me right: the price for an Elite was like 700$ lower than the price I could get from FS on a regular Kuro. I sincerely think that despite the fact that the MSRP was much higher in Canada than in the US, the same was not quite true with the cost price of resellers, which gave us the possibility to get good rebates, depending on your dealing skills. :cool:

I PM you with the price I got for the Pro-150...

Pépin

Send me a PM too please Pepin.

No disrespect to anyone asking for a PM, but I think it's better that you PM
the originator than leave the onus on that person to send you a PM. Just
click on their name and send them a PM with your inquiry. I just sent out a
PM to someone which they'll see when they login next. It's easier and it saves
the thread from a clutter of PM requests. Besides, your chances of getting a
PM response is much higher if you initiate the original PM. I mean, the person
might not see your request for a PM in a thread like this if they don't login
every day as the pages just keep climbing.

Hmm... the more I think about it, the more I think I should just get the 5020
if the Canadian MSRP ends up as cheap as $4K. I can at least afford that and
use it in the main room of the new house in January. I figure the 5020 will be
close to $3K by Christmas which would be awesome as that's when I'll be purchasing
it. Later next year I can consider a 10G (Mr. D-Nice kinda suggested it'll be later in
2009 anyhow) and move the 5020 to the master bedroom. I'd love to get the elite,
but I'd rather leave that distinction for the 60 inch 10G. I've already gotten used
to the 4280 which will be going into the spare bedroom next year. :)

(now, let's hope the 5020 is as cheap as the MSRP suggests)

Oh yeah: D-Nice... I know I'm asking a lot, but do you think the 10G's will be even
cheaper next year? Just curious as I may as well start planning from now. Also, what
is your take on the laser? I know it's a RP, but it sounds like a decent option for the
family room.

Oh yeah: D-Nice... I know I'm asking a lot, but do you think the 10G's will be even
cheaper next year? Just curious as I may as well start planning from now. Also, what
is your take on the laser? I know it's a RP, but it sounds like a decent option for the
family room.

I'm not D-Nice and I have absolutely no inside information - but I can't imagine how the 10G could fail to be cheaper. Panasonic will be producing the glass, creating massive economy of scale. And they will begin to implememt 10 lumen tech, which is supposed to lower costs significantly (are they still on target for that in 10th generation) Anyway, I predict next year's price news will be good.

I'm not D-Nice and I have absolutely no inside information - but I can't imagine how the 10G could fail to be cheaper. Panasonic will be producing the glass, creating massive economy of scale. And they will begin to implememt 10 lumen tech, which is supposed to lower costs significantly (are they still on target for that in 10th generation) Anyway, I predict next year's price news will be good.

True, but my big concern is his suggestion that there won't be a 60 inch panel
next year. If they go 70+, then I expect the price to be pretty high, so if
someone wants an inexpensive large screen, the 9G is their last hope. If they
go 65 inches (don't see this being the case) then perhaps the price will be
similar to this years.

Nambit, Pioneer may simply follow the Panny screen sizes...58"er, 65"er for their larger displays.

Nambit, Pioneer may simply follow the Panny screen sizes...58"er, 65"er for their larger displays.

Makes sense for the 58" model. Don't think Panasonic picked that odd size for any reason other than manufacturing efficiencies....which Pioneer didn't achieve with their 60" model.

Would be nice to have a 65" model. I've got a 60" (6070) and would be more inclined to buy a new set if I could increase the screensize a bit.

Here's some more detail re. Kuro Signatures from UltimateAVmag.com. If this is true then I don't have to go to the extra trouble and expense of having someone come and calibrate in my rural home in Oregon and my apartment in Bangkok. Also, hopefully, this means that the calibration costs will be lowered accordingly.

Here's the quote:
"The new, limited-edition 50-inch PRO-101FD and 60-inch PRO-141FD Elite Signature monitors (prices not available at press time) are designed specifically for the custom-install market and will have their own IP addresses, allowing for remote ISF calibration and dealer diagnostics. Both models will be built using hand-selected parts and hand-built sub-assemblies, and they will undergo an ultra-rigorous inspection process designed to produce superior results. An accompanying certificate will vouch for the authenticity of the product."

I have asked for permission so I can clarify/comment regarding the above (new feature).... I'm not sure it's time.. :(

Checked my email this evening and I have received permission to briefly comment on the "Remote ISF Calibration" feature (as it is being labeled here and elsewhere).

In a nutshell, an application like ControlCAL can connect via Winsock (LAN/WAN) on the models that support this to access the ISFccc Calibration Controls* (the serial connection is still an option).

Though ControlCAL has 9G support now (serial connection), work is progressing so that ControlCAL will be first to support the new connection capabilities.

This is all I can comment on now, hopefully soon I will be able to comment on other new features in regards to the calibration controls, both ISF and standard modes*.

SM/Serial/Winsock - which would you prefer? :D

IMHO, Owners/DIYers/Professional Calibrators will all love the new accessibility options.

-Shawn

Checked my email this evening and I have received permission to briefly comment on the "Remote ISF Calibration" feature (as it is being labeled here and elsewhere).

In a nutshell, an application like ControlCAL can connect via Winsock (LAN/WAN) on the models that support this to access the ISFccc Calibration Controls* (the serial connection is still an option).

Though ControlCAL has 9G support now (serial connection), work is progressing so that ControlCAL will be first to support the new connection capabilities.

This is all I can comment on now, hopefully soon I will be able to comment on other new features in regards to the calibration controls, both ISF and standard modes*.

SM/Serial/Winsock - which would you prefer? :D

IMHO, Owners/DIYers/Professional Calibrators will all love the new options.

-ShawnThat is excellent news!

I'll probably not be getting a 9G anyway since after 8G, 10G and zero luminance black level is what I am looking for now, but still, very nice. :)

I hope that Pio has put some effort into making the calibration controls more user friendly too, e.g. a true CMS, a 9 point gamma with finer adjustment steps, etc.

It is hard to say what would be best for a display that does not exist. The gray scale, gamma and color adjustments in the Lumagen unit's has been superior to what is in the prior model Elite's.

I will have to disagree with you here as you do not use ISFccc. I understand why you do not like it, however, looking only at the capabilities, the law of diminishing returns play a factor here.

D-Nice, what does using or not using ISFccc have to do with this? I'm not challenging what you're saying, I just want to understand your comment. Thanks.

There are additional calibration controls available with the ISFccc tool.

This is an impossible question to answer.

1) These displays have some significant variability. Some 8G Elites in the past can be setup to have nearly perfect color performance while others cannot. Some will work well in pure others will not. I had one for example the other day that was way desaturated in color space 2 and had to be calibrated in color space 1 to have good color performance. It seems to vary with the display factory calibration and phosphorus batch.

2) The 9G is not available so no one knows what they will look like.

3) Pioneer's CMS is not correctly implemented because the white will shift when non-white point CMS moves are made. This is not correct.

4) The difference in what is achievable with an external processor versus a display will depend on the sample chosen for comparison. In some cases the difference will be subtle while in others it will be less so.

I would purchase a RadianceXD with an Elite and calibrate it properly if you want to have certainty of the absolute best display performance. Unfortunately, that is a very expensive option. All other options are a crap shoot to some degree.

Well, #1 and #3 are really kind of discouraging. Seems like Pioneer's solution to #1 is to introduce the Signature series ... pay a premium and we'll cherry pick the panel and components and rigorously test everything. It probably also will guarantee the panel will have minimal buzz.

Is it unreasonable to demand good enough quality control so that we don't need to worry about #1 if we just buy a (non-Signature) Elite? Is the manufacturability of these sets so complex that this goal is unachievable?

Item #3 is also disappointing, but I guess we can't expect (even at the Elite price point) to get controls that are as effective as an external processor like a high-end Lumagen.

I mean, I still expect to get better results with an Elite, but these things make me less happy about the price premium.

And can someone please take a shot at explaining exactly what pure mode is? Thanks.

This is an impossible question to answer.

1) These displays have some significant variability. Some 8G Elites in the past can be setup to have nearly perfect color performance while others cannot. Some will work well in pure others will not. I had one for example the other day that was way desaturated in color space 2 and had to be calibrated in color space 1 to have good color performance. It seems to vary with the display factory calibration and phosphorus batch.



Jeff, I find that fascinating and very revealing. It may explain in a nutshell why some, like myself, are totally convinced that CS1 provides better results. Of course I've seen many many 8g Pioneers and the magenta sky issue with CS2 always seems to be there regardless.

If you decide to go Elite, these are the forum sponsors who sell them:

BuyBestPlasma/Clarity
Axxis Audio
Value Electronics



Just wondering, is the warranty honored by Pioneer if you buy from one of these places? I'm sure I read somewhere that they don't honor the warranty if purchased online, but I'd just like to get clarification on that if possible. Thanks.

Just wondering, is the warranty honored by Pioneer if you buy from one of these places? I'm sure I read somewhere that they don't honor the warranty if purchased online, but I'd just like to get clarification on that if possible. Thanks.

I believe there's a "loophole" in the Pioneer Rule, and you have to actually give the seller a personal phone call to order the Elite. No big deal, and I would want to speak to a person at the business first in any regard. Basically, if the business is an "authorized Pioneer Elite seller" listed on Pioneer's website, then you're warranty is covered.

Just wondering, is the warranty honored by Pioneer if you buy from one of these places? I'm sure I read somewhere that they don't honor the warranty if purchased online, but I'd just like to get clarification on that if possible. Thanks.

I believe there's a "loophole" in the Pioneer Rule, and you have to actually give the seller a personal phone call to order the Elite. No big deal, and I would want to speak to a person at the business first in any regard. Basically, if the business is an "authorized Pioneer Elite seller" listed on Pioneer's website, then you're warranty is covered.

Just to be completely sure you will be covered, and the retailer is an authorized Elite dealer, go to Pioneer's "Find a Store" link http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/FindStore and enter the retailer's/forum sponsor's zip code (do not specify a product category or model). This will list all of the authorized Pioneer and Elite dealers in a 25 mile radius of that specific zip code. The radius can be changed in degrees of 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, & 200 miles.

If you select a specific product category, such as "Plasma Display - Elite," the list will show only those dealers who have been shipped any Elite plasma model in the last 90 days.

If you select a specific category and model, such as "Plasma Display - Elite" and "PRO-150FD," the list will only show those dealers who have been shipped a PRO-150FD in the last 90 days.

Finally, you may want to call or e-mail Pioneer CS about warranty coverage and potential loopholes.

I'm not D-Nice and I have absolutely no inside information - but I can't imagine how the 10G could fail to be cheaper. Panasonic will be producing the glass, creating massive economy of scale. And they will begin to implememt 10 lumen tech, which is supposed to lower costs significantly (are they still on target for that in 10th generation) Anyway, I predict next year's price news will be good.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. (I probably am :))
Will 10 lumen tech will be new to plasmas? If it is, despite Panasonic's more efficient productivity of glass, the implementation of new technology will command a higher price if not the same as this years MSRPs.
I have been following this thread (as well as the other ones on this forum) and have learned so much from everyone. Thank you for the insight. I am in the same boat as Vashti regarding which 9G to buy...either the 6020 or 151. As tempting as the 10G sounds, I can't wait that long. This plasma will be the last piece of my HT puzzle which includes an Integra 9.8, Sunfire Cinema Grand, OPPO 980, Panasonic BD30, Velodyne FSR-15 and Phase Technology PC-500's all around.
On a side note, where can I go to find out about a reputable ISF tech in the NY tri-state area? (Robert...Vashti...anyone else)

For pokerrx ... use this link
http://imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

Much better? Might as well go with a more competitively priced and similarly (better?) performing plasma or LCD instead of the non-Elite (if that's your price range) in that case.:confused:Better to the point where I (who has decent eyes) can see a noticeable difference. I would still think that the non-elites are the best you can get besides the elites.

Given what Tweeter is advertizing on the price of a 9g 60 Elite, does anyone thinks the Forum sponsors price will be lower than that. If its not I am very tempted to order it through Tweeter, have it delivered to my in-laws house in Virginia and then ship it from there to CA.

If I have to ship it myself, do i still use FedEx or UPS for that or there is a special delivery place that has more expert knowledge in how to deliver these big Plasma TVs.

And they will begin to implememt 10 lumen tech, which is supposed to lower costs significantly (are they still on target for that in 10th generation) Anyway, I predict next year's price news will be good.
You mean 5 lumen ;)

I found this on the new Signature line ...

While Pioneer has long boasted some of the most rigorous inspection standards for reliability and performance in the industry, Pioneer's Signature Series of Elite KURO plasma monitors exceed an even stricter examination process. Many parts of the Elite monitors are hand selected and hand assembled, making the monitor even more unique and distinct in its own right. This meticulous attention to detail is further reinforced by an accompanying certificate confirming the superior level of panel performance and near flawless aesthetics for every serial number created in this exclusive line of monitors.

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/482515.html

How many extra $$$??? Sounds like it might be expensive!!!

How many extra $$$???

Unknown at this time.:)

Last information I had was that the price was to be the same as the Elite line. Unconfirmed at this point, but that price differential might be covered because things like speakers, tuner, stands, etc are not included with the Signature Series.

I found this on the new Signature line ...

While Pioneer has long boasted some of the most rigorous inspection standards for reliability and performance in the industry, Pioneer's Signature Series of Elite KURO plasma monitors exceed an even stricter examination process. Many parts of the Elite monitors are hand selected and hand assembled, making the monitor even more unique and distinct in its own right. This meticulous attention to detail is further reinforced by an accompanying certificate confirming the superior level of panel performance and near flawless aesthetics for every serial number created in this exclusive line of monitors.

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/482515.html

How many extra $$$??? Sounds like it might be expensive!!!

Last information I had was that the price was to be the same as the Elite line. Unconfirmed at this point, but that price differential might be covered because things like speakers, tuner, stands, etc are not included with the Signature Series.

Perhaps... but because they're coming out later in the year, expect the prices
to be higher anyhow since the stores will likely have discounted prices (to a
certain degree) for the elites by then.

I think it's safer to get an elite as you can shove the TV in the bedroom down
the road and use the speakers. Otherwise, you'll have to get a sound system
for the bedroom as well, not that there's a problem with that. ;)

(and weren't the elites originally touted with such hand-assembled attention to detail?)

All Elites are tested to a higher QA standard than the non-elite line, hence the extra warranty. The tolerance levels in the Elite line are set to higher spec level, so parts that don't meet those specs are rejected.

The Signature series would appear to be exactly that at and even more strigent level.


Perhaps... but because they're coming out later in the year, expect the prices
to be higher anyhow since the stores will likely have discounted prices (to a
certain degree) for the elites by then.

I think it's safer to get an elite as you can shove the TV in the bedroom down
the road and use the speakers. Otherwise, you'll have to get a sound system
for the bedroom as well, not that there's a problem with that. ;)

(and weren't the elites originally touted with such hand-assembled attention to detail?)

All Elites are tested to a higher QA standard than the non-elite line, hence the extra warranty. The tolerance levels in the Elite line are set to higher spec level, so parts that don't meet those specs are rejected.

The Signature series would appear to be exactly that at and even more strigent level.Yep. If Pioneer were Sony, the Signature series would be a Qualia while the regular Elites with be the ES series.

D-nice or russwong,

Any signifanct changes to the CMS/processing in the new units or is it just last years setup with small improvements?

Mainly, outside of improved black levels, what else will be different PQ wise?

D-nice or russwong,

Any signifanct changes to the CMS/processing in the new unitsNo

If this is true... it sound like when a panel does not pass the test to be a signature series... they will use it in there elite and non elite TV's.

so maybe now would be the time to get a regular Elite before they filter out the best panels for the signature series coming out this Fall.

I don't like the fact that I may be getting a pannel that was rejected because of a flaw that didn't pass the Signature series test.


I found this on the new Signature line ...

While Pioneer has long boasted some of the most rigorous inspection standards for reliability and performance in the industry, Pioneer's Signature Series of Elite KURO plasma monitors exceed an even stricter examination process. Many parts of the Elite monitors are hand selected and hand assembled, making the monitor even more unique and distinct in its own right. This meticulous attention to detail is further reinforced by an accompanying certificate confirming the superior level of panel performance and near flawless aesthetics for every serial number created in this exclusive line of monitors.

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/482515.html

How many extra $$$??? Sounds like it might be expensive!!!

D-Nice: Hi, long time listener. First time caller. ;) I've watched your posts with interest for some time. Thank you for your continued dedication to these forums, and thanks in advance for tackling my questions below.

Like many I am trying to decide between the 800U and 5020FD/111FD (looking at about ~$4k, $5k, ~$6k respectively when all is said in done here in Canada (hopefully less).

I saw you stated that you planned to purchase an 800U a few posts back. I'm very interested to know (as I'm sure many readers are) how you came to this decision. Especially given your apparent admiration and extensive knowledge of the comparative advantages of going Kuro Elite with the picture processing, blacks, CR, 24p, Pure Mode, Calibration advantages, just to name a few. And your chastizing of Panasonic for it's CR numbers -- which I believe you described as extremely insulting to the consumer. As well as your belief that the 9G's Kuro Elite is the best and the 800U won't come close in many respects.

Can you please help the rest of us better understand how you came to your decision to go with an 800U (instead of a Kuro or Kuro Elite)? Do you already own any Kuro models? And can you shed light for those of us looking at the cost/value analysis between the two ends of the spectrum -- 800U and 111FD?

Do you figure the 800U is 'good enough' for now and better to save the added price of a 9G Kuro for future purchases? Do you think someone who purchases a 9G Kuro Elite for ~$2k more than an 800U is getting good value for that $2k, can you elaborate a bit on that?

What features are important to you that the 800U is adequate enough at or does well? Do you think there is much better technology coming down the pipe in the short term (say in 2-3 years) that would lead you to believe that laying down the additional cash for a 9G Kuro/Elite, is a poor investment at this time? (Q3 08) (ie. ECC Kuro, Panasonic+Pioneer, 2160p, 10G+ Kuro, etc.)

Issues that are keeping me from an 800U include reported poor 24p processing (48hz flicker reported), ghosting, CR, blacks, and of course, knowing that there is a (much?) better TV out there -- what do you think about the impact of these issues? (And do you have anything to add about the reports of 24p being flickery and noticably 'off'; compared 72hz Pure Mode of a 9G Elite?)

How can you live with second best being such a videophile and knowing what you know about the make, quality, design and features of these two panels. I'm very interested to hear you tackle these questions as I think it will help the rest of us thinking this through as well. Thanks for letting me pick your brain!! :D

i guess i have to choose between the PDP-5020FD/6020FD .. one more month to go :) i think i will get the 6020FD depending on DC :)

D-Nice Realize these are probably very basic questions, and your support is always appreciated ! ! !
Regarding your post on the cable card slot being stripped on the 9Gs:
1) What purpose will an internal High Def Tuner serve without a cable card to allow a directly connected cable signal to pass to?
2) Is this HD tuner removed also resulting in the depth reduction?
3) Will an HD over the air tuner still be included in the Elite?
4) I am trying to understand if I will need a crap Comcast HD Box with the 9G Elite?
5) Bottom line: Will I just be able to hook cable directly to the 9G Elite and get HDTV like one can with an 8G and a cable card (realize it is only one way, but thought this was the only path to get HD channels without a box)?

D-Nice: Hi, long time listener. First time caller. ;) I've watched your posts with interest for some time. Thank you for your continued dedication to these forums, and thanks in advance for tackling my questions below.

Like many I am trying to decide between the 800U and 5020FD/111FD (looking at about ~$4k, $5k, ~$6k respectively when all is said in done here in Canada (hopefully less).

I saw you stated that you planned to purchase an 800U a few posts back. I'm very interested to know (as I'm sure many readers are) how you came to this decision. Especially given your apparent admiration and extensive knowledge of the comparative advantages of going Kuro Elite with the picture processing, blacks, CR, 24p, Pure Mode, Calibration advantages, just to name a few. And your chastizing of Panasonic for it's CR numbers -- which I believe you described as extremely insulting to the consumer. As well as your belief that the 9G's Kuro Elite is the best and the 800U won't come close in many respects.

Can you please help the rest of us better understand how you came to your decision to go with an 800U (instead of a Kuro or Kuro Elite)? Do you already own any Kuro models? And can you shed light for those of us looking at the cost/value analysis between the two ends of the spectrum -- 800U and 111FD?

Do you figure the 800U is 'good enough' for now and better to save the added price of a 9G Kuro for future purchases? Do you think someone who purchases a 9G Kuro Elite for ~$2k more than an 800U is getting good value for that $2k, can you elaborate a bit on that?

What features are important to you that the 800U is adequate enough at or does well? Do you think there is much better technology coming down the pipe in the short term (say in 2-3 years) that would lead you to believe that laying down the additional cash for a 9G Kuro/Elite, is a poor investment at this time? (Q3 08) (ie. ECC Kuro, Panasonic+Pioneer, 2160p, 10G+ Kuro, etc.)

Issues that are keeping me from an 800U include reported poor 24p processing (48hz flicker reported), ghosting, CR, blacks, and of course, knowing that there is a (much?) better TV out there -- what do you think about the impact of these issues? (And do you have anything to add about the reports of 24p being flickery and noticably 'off'; compared 72hz Pure Mode of a 9G Elite?)

How can you live with second best being such a videophile and knowing what you know about the make, quality, design and features of these two panels. I'm very interested to hear you tackle these questions as I think it will help the rest of us thinking this through as well. Thanks for letting me pick your brain!! :D

Auditor?

D-Nice Realize these are probably very basic questions, and your support is always appreciated ! ! !
Regarding your post on the cable card slot being stripped on the 9Gs:
1) What purpose will an internal High Def Tuner serve without a cable card to allow a directly connected cable signal to pass to?
2) Is this HD tuner removed also resulting in the depth reduction?
3) Will an HD over the air tuner still be included in the Elite?
4) I am trying to understand if I will need a crap Comcast HD Box with the 9G Elite?
5) Bottom line: Will I just be able to hook cable directly to the 9G Elite and get HDTV like one can with an 8G and a cable card (realize it is only one way, but thought this was the only path to get HD channels without a box)?
dam no more cable card slot :( so i guess i have to keep my ugly cable box then. or better yet get a HD one from cablevision then...

Auditor?

Unsure what this means?

Unsure what this means?

Sorry, that wasn't directed towards you, I was speaking to Panoneer.

I saw you stated that you planned to purchase an 800U a few posts back. I'm very interested to know (as I'm sure many readers are) how you came to this decision. Especially given your apparent admiration and extensive knowledge of the comparative advantages of going Kuro Elite with the picture processing, blacks, CR, 24p, Pure Mode, Calibration advantages, just to name a few. And your chastizing of Panasonic for it's CR numbers -- which I believe you described as extremely insulting to the consumer. As well as your belief that the 9G's Kuro Elite is the best and the 800U won't come close in many respects.I originally planned on getting one 46PZ850u for my daughter and have now decided to go with two 42PZ800u. Reason?


One 42PZ800u is going to one my daughters and she is only 3. She doesn't need a Kuro Elite. The second 42PZ800u will go into the guest bedroom....unless the 32" Vizio plasma is as impressive as others say it is. The non-Elite's oversaturated cyan, reds, and greens will not allow me to bring one home.
The THX mode on the 800u is suppose to give very accurate colors and I'll take a hit in black levels for more accurate colors.
LCDs can do nothing for me besides show the internet and/or Windows Vista.
I know that Samsung has much better colors than Panasonic. However, I do not buy Samsung products as I dislike the entire company.
After this year, I'm not allowed to purchase any new TV unless one breaks and cannot be repaired under warranty.....So I cannot wait on a 10G 42" Pioneer Kuro.
Keep the peace between Pioneer and Panasonic owners.


And yes I chastised Panasonic for their utter BS contrast ratio claims. I'll do the same for Pioneer, if they go the route of Panasonic.


Do you already own any Kuro models?I currently own a 1150 Elite Kuro.


And can you shed light for those of us looking at the cost/value analysis between the two ends of the spectrum -- 800U and 111FD?I don't get into these type of exchanges as you should evaluate both and see which one is more pleasing to your eyes....and checkbook (if money matters).


Do you figure the 800U is 'good enough' for now and better to save the added price of a 9G Kuro for future purchases?That is something you are gonna have to decide on your own.


Do you think someone who purchases a 9G Kuro Elite for ~$2k more than an 800U is getting good value for that $2k, can you elaborate a bit on that?Why do you think someone would have to pay 2K more for an Elite 9G Kuro?


What features are important to you that the 800U is adequate enough at or does well?For the specific applications the 800u will be used in my home, the only thing that matters is color reproduction and "acceptable" black levels. 0.009fL is acceptable in my book, but only for specific applications.


Do you think there is much better technology coming down the pipe in the short term (say in 2-3 years) that would lead you to believe that laying down the additional cash for a 9G Kuro/Elite, is a poor investment at this time? (Q3 08) (ie. ECC Kuro, Panasonic+Pioneer, 2160p, 10G+ Kuro, etc.) There is always something better in the development pipeline. If I could continue to upgrade every year I would. However, I've been told no...HELL not to be exact. The 9Gs will be a very good option for someone who plans to keep the TV greater than 4 years.


Issues that are keeping me from an 800U include reported poor 24p processing (48hz flicker reported), ghosting, CR, blacks, and of course, knowing that there is a (much?) better TV out there -- what do you think about the impact of these issues? (And do you have anything to add about the reports of 24p being flickery and noticeably 'off'; compared 72hz Pure Mode of a 9G Elite?) The "issues" you have pointed out are valid flaws. The 800u would not be my personal HT plasma due to said "issues". However, those things may be acceptable for someone else. Just like the buzz, streaking, and blotches "issues" some Kuro owners are having and cause them to return their panels for something else (my panel doesn't exhibit any of said issues).


How can you live with second best being such a videophile and knowing what you know about the make, quality, design and features of these two panels.It all boils down to application usage. I won't be using the 800u for any critical viewing or as a main display. As I've stated before, I'll take a hit in minimum luminance levels for more accurate colors (800u with THX mode only).

D-Nice Realize these are probably very basic questions, and your support is always appreciated ! ! !
Regarding your post on the cable card slot being stripped on the 9Gs:
1) What purpose will an internal High Def Tuner serve without a cable card to allow a directly connected cable signal to pass to?To tune digital and free HD channels that do not need a cable card to decode them.
2) Is this HD tuner removed also resulting in the depth reduction?The QAM tuner isn't being removed. The cable card slot is. It does not play a role in the depth reduction.
3) Will an HD over the air tuner still be included in the Elite?Yes
4) I am trying to understand if I will need a crap Comcast HD Box with the 9G Elite?More than likely you will...unless you do not care for premium channels (HBO, Starz, Cinemax, ESPN, etc).
5) Bottom line: Will I just be able to hook cable directly to the 9G Elite and get HDTV like one can with an 8G and a cable card (realize it is only one way, but thought this was the only path to get HD channels without a box)?You will get whatever HD channels Comcast broadcasts in the clear.

Wow. I've never been so insulted in all my life..

I am literally just some guy who has read this forum for a long time and registered because I wanted to get inside D-Nice's brain on the 800U vs 9G Kuro issue given his extensive experience and knowledge. I respect his opinion and would like to help myself make a better buying decision between these two sets.

Being familiar with Auditors posts -- because I read the 800U / 9G Kuro threads, lurking and soaking up the information as a great many readers do -- I am actually quite offended at the suggestion, on my first day as a member of this forum, in response to my very first post, that I am some troublemaker, especially given the genuine nature of my inquiry...

What in my post would indicate I am that person? As opposed to him, I'm asking a bunch of totally valid relevant questions in a constructive, polite and considerate way, for a constructive end, that will hopefully add substance, information and clarity to this forum -- completely the opposite of what Auditor does. I don't see any resemblance.. where did that come from...? :S

I expect an apology. :P Feel free to PM me your phone number and I can provide additional verification that I am just some nobody who registered to participate in this forum; and have absolutely no connection/relation/knowledge/sympathy/time for Auditor.

I don't know what you're smokin but it's not helping your paranoia any.. Welcome to the AVS forums!! right?.. Sheesh. PanoneerI don't think you are Auditor55. I'll apologize for HDPeeT.

I originally planned on getting one 46PZ850u for my daughter and have now decided to go with two 42PZ800u. Reason?

Why do you think someone would have to pay 2K more for an Elite 9G Kuro?


Canada MSRP:
PZ 800 = $3499 = $3953.87 (After PST+GST)
111FD = $5000/5500 = $5650/6215 (After tax)

Not sure what the true 111FD MSRP will be in Canada. Some have said 5500, yet Frédéric Bourgeois of Pioneer Canada was quoted yesterday as saying USA and Canada MSRPs will be the same.

It all boils down to application usage. I won't be using the 800u for any critical viewing or as a main display. As I've stated before, I'll take a hit in minimum luminance levels for more accurate colors (800u with THX mode only).

The 800u would not be my personal HT plasma due to said "issues" I guess that says it all. Doesn't it. Count me in for a big 'me too'.

Ok. So it's safe to say if you could/were allowed ;)/had to upgrade your main set this year your answer would be different on the question of 800U vs Kuro? If you could buy a main/critical use panel for this year, is there any doubt that it would be the 9G Kuro Elite?

The last TV I bought was a Sony SXRD 60A2000 last spring, I thought it sucked and returned it. I'm glad I did because I'll be using that money I saved to buy a plasma this year. I'm still wrestling over which I will be most happier with given the financial implications, but it's hard to put a price on happiness. Right? ;) (Thanks for responding btw! your input is appreciated and you answered most of my questions.)

I don't think you are Auditor55. I'll apologize for HDPeeT.

:) Thanks D, your the best.

Seriously though, if you're not Auditor55, I apologize completely.

I don't think you are Auditor55. I'll apologize for HDPeeT.

You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. :D Thanks! ;)

EDIT: Thanks HDPeet. I swear!! I just want the best plasma experience without selling either kidney! No FUDing going on here!

Canada MSRP:
PZ 800 = $3499 = $3953.87 (After PST+GST)
111FD = $5000/5500 = $5650/6215 (After tax)

Not sure what the true 111FD MSRP will be in Canada. Some have said 5500, yet Frédéric Bourgeois of Pioneer Canada was quoted yesterday as saying USA and Canada MSRPs will be the same.Ahh, you're Canadian. They don't give discounts on Pioneers north of the border?



Ok. So it's safe to say if you could/were allowed ;)/had to upgrade your main set this year your answer would be different on the question of 800U vs Kuro? If you could buy a main/critical use panel for this year, is there any doubt that it would be the 9G Kuro Elite? I'm upgrading my main set this year to a 9G Kuro Elite (or Signature). My 1150HD will go in the master bedroom (unless I can figure out how to get 2 9G Elite Kuros). Nothing in the PDP market this year will be acceptable for my main screens except a Kuro.

Ahh, you're Canadian. They don't give discounts on Pioneers north of the border?

Ya eh? didn't ya notice ya hoser? ;) Yes poor unwashed Canadians. Somehow, despite the USD and CAD being at virtual par (and ours being above in the past..) Canadians suffer from a much less competitive marketplace because of the smaller market and national boundaries. It's common for Plasma's to cost 500-2000 more here, you'd think we were in Siberia or something and not just a few hours from New York.. Unfortunately, this kind of situation, people just pay the price. I had the owner of an authorized Pioneer dealer here in town tell me to my face that "he didn't need" my business when I tried to get a lower than MSRP price, and that he was selling plenty of panels to other suckers in town with (infinitely) more money than brains, that he didn't need to deal with me at all.. Can you imagine being treated like this in the USA?

Hopefully this price parity disparity is coming to an end, according to that Pioneer Canada rep I cited, he said that Canadian and USA MSRP should be at par with the 9G's (it would be a first, which is why I'm not holding my breath) BUT the fact that this guy is employed by Pio Canada and put his name on such a claim in a public forum, setting those consumer expectations either means he's incredibly stupid, or he's right. Time will tell. ;) I hope it's the latter.

I'm upgrading my main set this year to a 9G Kuro Elite (or Signature) ... Nothing in the PDP market this year will be acceptable for my main screens. Sorry if I misunderstood but didn't you just contradict yourself? It wasn't clear, going from "Upgrading my main set to 9G Kuro Elite this year" to "nothing in the PDP market is acceptable as a main screen this year". Is the Kuro Elite good enough for you or not? :P lol and if not please tell me what you're buying next because it's tough keeping up with the D-Nice Jones' of the world ;) lol here's hoping for a bank error in your favor so you can afford the extra 9G K.E. (and one for me too)

Sorry if I misunderstood but didn't you just contradict yourself? It wasn't clear, going from "Upgrading my main set to 9G Kuro Elite this year" to "nothing in the PDP market is acceptable as a main screen this year". Is the Kuro Elite good enough for you or not?Nothing will be good enough for my main sets except the Kuros.

well this will be my first plasma as well as my first large tv

what can i except from my new purchase of either the pd-5020fd or the pdp-6020fd d-nice

Auditor?

I don't think so. The questions were too reasoned and not in the vein of 'plasmas suck because they're old technology'.

If this is true... it sound like when a panel does not pass the test to be a signature series... they will use it in there elite and non elite TV's.

so maybe now would be the time to get a regular Elite before they filter out the best panels for the signature series coming out this Fall.

I don't like the fact that I may be getting a pannel that was rejected because of a flaw that didn't pass the Signature series test.

You may already be too late to get a non-reject Elite. I would speculate that the reason the Signature line is coming out later is to give Pioneer some time to build up stock of cherry-picked panels from earlier prodution runs to finish building out as Signature Elites.

I don't think so. The questions were too reasoned and not in the vein of 'plasmas suck because they're old technology'.

OK OK perhaps I was blinded in anger, Auditor was really ****ing me off with his accusations and stupidness.

I noticed that Panoneer's first post was along the lines of the argument Auditor and I were having and then I noticed he just joined today so I got a little suspicious.

Anyways, like I said, if he's not Auditor (and you guys would probably know better than I), then I apologize.

I too would be very insulted if someone compared me to that "person"

:) Thanks D, your the best.

Seriously though, if you're not Auditor55, I apologize completely.

If you want to read the real Auditor55's latest posts, go over to the "Are Plasma TV's On The Way Out?" thread. Same old plasma hater BS.

The non-Elite's oversaturated cyan, reds, and greens will not allow me to bring one home.
The THX mode on the 800u is suppose to give very accurate colors and I'll take a hit in black levels for more accurate colors.


Is this mean that the panny 800u will have more accurate colors then the non-elite 5020 ? :confused:

Thanks, :)

Eric

Jeff, I find that fascinating and very revealing. It may explain in a nutshell why some, like myself, are totally convinced that CS1 provides better results. Of course I've seen many many 8g Pioneers and the magenta sky issue with CS2 always seems to be there regardless.
I agree...it would seem that even with an elite, there is the risk of not getting one's money's worth. Ken, you're the only one I've seen who is very pleased with the non-Elite PQ. It's the direction I'm leaning (mainly due to price concerns) as well.

You may already be too late to get a non-reject Elite. I would speculate that the reason the Signature line is coming out later is to give Pioneer some time to build up stock of cherry-picked panels from earlier prodution runs to finish building out as Signature Elites.

This is not directed to the Poster, but to the concept that Pioneer takes "rejects" and dumps them into the non-Elite products. If the part is "rejected" ... it will be thrown out!!!

The cost to the reputation of the Brand, and the cost of Warranty work, would make using "rejected" parts a costly mistake.

They may 'claim' to "cherry-pick" parts for the Signature Series ... but that is something that sounds good to the consumer, and may get a premium price for the unit's, but makes no sense from a Corporate perspective.

For what it's worth, I've only seen 1 Non-Elite owner second guess himself because he did not spend the extra money on the Elite. 99.99% of the people who bought a 5010/6010 said they were "blown away" by the picture quality and know they made the right decision.

The Elites are better, but that doesn't mean the standard models are "bad" by any stretch.

99.99% of the people who bought a 5010/6010 said they were "blown away" by the picture quality and know they made the right decision.

...yes ;) but then you don't get a TV that says "ELITE" on the front, re-assuring you of your own Elite-ness.

Is this mean that the panny 800u will have more accurate colors then the non-elite 5020 ? :confused:

Thanks, :)

EricYep....THX mode only (that's one of the requirements of THX certification).

Just to clarify, I believe Ken owns an Elite.

I agree...it would seem that even with an elite, there is the risk of not getting one's money's worth. Ken, you're the only one I've seen who is very pleased with the non-Elite PQ. It's the direction I'm leaning (mainly due to price concerns) as well.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0804.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0805.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0807.jpg




http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0830.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0832.jpg
(Images courtesy of briansemerick)

I sure wouldn't mind having that "Non-Elite" on my TV stand right now.......

On a side note, where can I go to find out about a reputable ISF tech in the NY tri-state area? (Robert...Vashti...anyone else)

The callibrator I know and will use is Jeff Meier (whose forum name is umr) of accucalhd.com. He is not in New York but does callibration tours and comes here several times a year. His next NY tour will be in August. I know there are others. I haven't really tracked them because of my good experiences with Jeff. Htwaits has collected reports on lots of callibrators in a link under his signature. This can also be a good resource.

Yep....THX mode only (that's one of the requirements of THX certification).

The THX mode in the 800U has more accurate colors than a 5010/6010/5020/6020?

The THX mode in the 800U has more accurate colors than a 5010/6010/5020/6020?Per the THX guidelines, yep.

To tune digital and free HD channels that do not need a cable card to decode them.
The QAM tuner isn't being removed. The cable card slot is. It does not play a role in the depth reduction.
Yes
More than likely you will...unless you do not care for premium channels (HBO, Starz, Cinemax, ESPN, etc).
You will get whatever HD channels Comcast broadcasts in the clear.

Question if I may...will the "B" side for Pip now include an HD Tuner...or will it continue to tune only SD OTA?

Per the THX guidelines, yep.

Is a pro calibration of the 5010/5020 can bring colors accuracy (or near) to the non-elite ?

Thanks,

Eric

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0830.jpg



I sure would mind having that "Non-Elite" on my TV stand right now.......
what brand tv stand is that?

Per the THX guidelines, yep.
What about per other guidelines? And what about the 111FD? You're not telling me that THX Mode on the 800U produces better OR more accurate colors than an ISF Calibrated 111FD can, are you?

It is rather strange situation here in Canada.

When one of the main Elite dealers in this city decide to just specialize in custom home theatre installations and close their store, another high end dealer (who has 8 or 9 demo rooms) applied to Pioneer Canada for a dealership. A dealer that continues to win awards for top sales in Canada for certain of their brands. Yet Pioneer Canada said they had enough Elite dealers here and denied their application.

The current top Elite dealer here continues to refuse to set up a Pro-150FD or 110FD for demo purposes. They say they don't have to because they have enough customers buying sight unseen!!! They do however give discounts off the MSRP.

Question if I may...will the "B" side for Pip now include an HD Tuner...or will it continue to tune only SD OTA?Don't know about that one.

Is a pro calibration of the 5010/5020 can bring colors accuracy (or near) to the non-elite ?

Thanks,

EricNear-er yes....accurate no.

What about per other guidelines? And what about the 111FD? You're not telling me that THX Mode on the 800U produces better OR more accurate colors than an ISF Calibrated 111FD can, are you?What do you mean other guidelines? The 111FD will have just as accurate (or better) colors as the 800's THX mode with 9G black levels to boot.

What do you mean other guidelines? The 111FD will have just as accurate (or better) colors as the 800's THX mode with 9G black levels to boot.

All hail 111FD Kuro ELITE! I think the most rewarding thing will be when I can post pics of mine. At least for me. ;) As for other guidelines, maybe I misunderstood, but I just meant what other objective methods can be used to measure color accuracy of THX Mode vs Kuro/Kuro Elite other than what the THX guidelines say.

D-Nice, I own a panny 600u. Decent black levels. But with the lights turned off, the black bars look grey. Have started noticing this more after reading the numerous threads on this forum :(
With the kuro 8Gs and 9Gs, do the black bars disappear (by melding with the panel's frame)?
Also, a side question (unrelated to this thread). How do the panny 800s measure up against the older 720p panny's (600 series) w.r.t. black levels
I would have gone with the 8Gs by now but the buzz thread really spooked me :(

All hail 111FD Kuro ELITE! I think the most rewarding thing will be when I can post pics of mine. At least for me. ;) As for other guidelines, maybe I misunderstood, but I just meant what other objective methods can be used to measure color accuracy of THX Mode vs Kuro/Kuro Elite other than what the THX guidelines say.THX is suppose to conform to the Rec709 colorspace. The Elites already conform to the 709 colorspace. Which one conforms better? I don't know yet. However, if the 9G Elites are like te 8G Elites, the 800u has a very tall mountain to climb.

D-Nice, I own a panny 600u. Decent black levels. But with the lights turned off, the black bars look grey. Have started noticing this more after reading the numerous threads on this forum :(
With the kuro 8Gs and 9Gs, do the black bars disappear (by melding with the panel's frame)?With everything besides low APL scenes (8Gs only), yes. The 9Gs will have much deeper blacks to handle those low APL scenes....far better than the 8Gs. But will never match the color of the bezel as the actual screen material isn't "bezel black". Neither will ever produce a "gray" black.

Also, a side question (unrelated to this thread). How do the panny 800s measure up against the older 720p panny's (600 series) w.r.t. black levels
I would have gone with the 8Gs by now but the buzz thread really spooked me :(They will be much better than the 600u.

Thanks D-Nice. Much appreciated

...yes ;) but then you don't get a TV that says "ELITE" on the front, re-assuring you of your own Elite-ness.

Well maybe if that badge said "L33T" instead, then it might be worth it. :D

Yep....THX mode only (that's one of the requirements of THX certification).
I don't suppose you know if THX certification checks the luminance of the colours at all?

If I remember correctly, with the 8Gs, while you could get an ‘accurate’ gamut/saturation with Colour Space 2, they were under-luminanced and that wasn't correctable. (colours started to clip before that)

You had to choose between the correct luminance or saturation, and luminance looked far more natural anyway, so if the 9Gs are the same, you wouldn't be missing out with a non-elite.

D-Nice, I own a panny 600u. Decent black levels. But with the lights turned off, the black bars look grey. Have started noticing this more after reading the numerous threads on this forum :(
With the kuro 8Gs and 9Gs, do the black bars disappear (by melding with the panel's frame)?
We're still at least a generation or two away from that, but the 9Gs should be very close.

Well maybe if that badge said "L33T" instead, then it might be worth it. :D

Can you say CUSTOM DESIGN/MOD? :D

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7324/leetgq5.jpg

Well maybe if that badge said "L33T" instead, then it might be worth it. :D

Can you say CUSTOM DESIGN/MOD? :D

I wonder what kind of warranty service you would get on that?:rolleyes:

With everything besides low APL scenes (8Gs only), yes. The 9Gs will have much deeper blacks to handle those low APL scenes....far better than the 8Gs. But will never match the color of the bezel as the actual screen material isn't "bezel black". Neither will ever produce a "gray" black.


I imaging the 9G should be close with the lights out.

- Rich

I wonder what kind of warranty service you would get on that?:rolleyes:

Haha, well my Elite is so L33T it will never break. Plus maybe I'll just custom mod it onto a temporary piece of (absolute) black electrical tape, and peel it off should the impossible happen. L33T MOD '08! Believe! ;)

Custom Pioneer Kuro ELITE --> L33T Tape Mods: Only $999! I'll even calibrate the tape for you. ;) LOL

Which movies would you guys say are the best tests of a sets black level abilities? Master & Commander on Blu-ray comes to mind, but what do you guys think?

I don't suppose you know if THX certification checks the luminance of the colours at all?

If I remember correctly, with the 8Gs, while you could get an ‘accurate’ gamut/saturation with Colour Space 2, they were under-luminanced and that wasn't correctable. (colours started to clip before that)The was a UK issue. NA models didn't really have issues with desaturation.

For what it's worth, I've only seen 1 Non-Elite owner second guess himself because he did not spend the extra money on the Elite. 99.99% of the people who bought a 5010/6010 said they were "blown away" by the picture quality and know they made the right decision.

The Elites are better, but that doesn't mean the standard models are "bad" by any stretch.


how much better? 10 percent 20 percent 50???????

Which movies would you guys say are the best tests of a sets black level abilities? Master & Commander on Blu-ray comes to mind, but what do you guys think?
2001
Dark City
Doom
World Trade Center
Pitch Black
AVP Requiem
Sin City
Aliens
Underworld

2001
Dark City
Doom
World Trade Center
Pitch Black
AVP Requiem
Sin City
Aliens
Underworld


That's what I'm talking about!

That's what I'm talking about!I have every single one of those... Good.

Which movies would you guys say are the best tests of a sets black level abilities? Master & Commander on Blu-ray comes to mind, but what do you guys think?
Pan's Labyrinth should be a good test.

The was a UK issue. NA models didn't really have issues with desaturation.
It wasn't a saturation issue, it was luminance. (brightness)

You say there weren't any issues, do you have any data on that? All I've ever seen is CIE charts which only deal with xy and not Y.

2001
Dark City
Doom
World Trade Center
Pitch Black
AVP Requiem
Sin City
Aliens
Underworld

Superman begins seems to challenge shadow details as well. A much darker
movie than I'd anticipated.

Sigh... 9G or not.... I'm still debating thanks to a major budget change. :(

It is rather strange situation here in Canada.

When one of the main Elite dealers in this city decide to just specialize in custom home theatre installations and close their store, another high end dealer (who has 8 or 9 demo rooms) applied to Pioneer Canada for a dealership. A dealer that continues to win awards for top sales in Canada for certain of their brands. Yet Pioneer Canada said they had enough Elite dealers here and denied their application.

The current top Elite dealer here continues to refuse to set up a Pro-150FD or 110FD for demo purposes. They say they don't have to because they have enough customers buying sight unseen!!! They do however give discounts off the MSRP.

I can assure you that this is not the case in the Montreal area. There are a few dealers with very nice dedicated setups showing Elite displays AND giving a good discount off the MSRP.

Pepin

I'll be getting 2001, I haven't seen it in years and I heard the new re-master is outstanding.

Dark City
Sin City
Aliens

Those are on my shortlist once they hit Blu-ray.

Is Pitch Black any good?

Your website is down. Also I sent you a couple times and have not heard back from you. Not feeling the love, what gives?

I just went to Invision it is up and running.

no it aint.....:rolleyes:
has some log in page..

http://www.invisiondisplays.com/

It wasn't a saturation issue, it was luminance. (brightness)Sorry, that's what I meant.

You say there weren't any issues, do you have any data on that? All I've ever seen is CIE charts which only deal with xy and not Y.Not on me right now. However, I'll dig some up for you.

Superman begins seems to challenge shadow details as well. A much darker
movie than I'd anticipated.

Sigh... 9G or not.... I'm still debating thanks to a major budget change. :(Superman Returns has elevated blacks.....intentional elevated blacks.

Hey D-nice, are the ECC still on track for next year? I just want to know because I'm debating selling my 1150 and going for a 111.

Hey D-nice, are the ECC still on track for next year? I just want to know because I'm debating selling my 1150 and going for a 111.Yep.

once again D you are the man.

Hey D-nice, are the ECC still on track for next year? I just want to know because I'm debating selling my 1150 and going for a 111.

Yep.

In sizes greater than 65 Inches?

- Rich

Yep.

Is there any technical info on how much blacker the ECC will be compared to the 9G? (How much blacker is there?) And when you say on track for next year, do you mean in 12 months from now we'll likely be awaiting the release of the ECC? Or could it be sooner?.. And what about the issue of the possible bumps in the road in marrying Pioneer Tech to Panny glass? will there be any risks of problems relating to ghosting? How does the ECC play into your thinking on planning to get a 9G Kuro Elite. Do you think the ECC is extremely hyped? or do you see yourself getting one of those as well (despite the 'hell no' warnings) ;) Thanks!

In sizes greater than 65 Inches?

- RichNo comment.

Televisions
US NEWS: Pioneer launches new Kuro TVs and projector, hand-selected Elite Signature screens and new Blu-ray players
May 08, 2008

There's still a fortnight to go until Pioneer's UK launch of its new Kuro TV line-up, but the company's US launch, held yesterday, may give some ideas what to expect.

Shown at the New York event were four new Kuro plasma TVs - two each in 50in and 60in sizes, plus a new range of Signature Elite monitors, hand-selected for quality.

And the company also launching its first Kuro projector, a three-chip D-ILA model.

The new mainstream Kuro models are said to offer five times deeper black levels than the current TVs, and are around 9.4cm thick, said to be a 30% reduction on last year's models. And the Signature models are even thinner, at under 7cm.

Optimum Mode Adjustment
They have a new Optimum Mode automatic adjustment, monitoring both ambient light and video brightness, and an improved remote control and on-screen graphical user interface. They also have a USB input and DLNA/Windows PlaysForSure networking compatibility for streaming music, stills and HD video files.

The Elite Signature models, also in 50in and 60in versions, come without TV tuners, and have been hand-assembled from selected parts. They come with a certificate confirming this, and have an IP connectivity function to allow a dealer to connect to the screen over the internet and make adjustments.

Hold the truck roll
Or, as Russ Johnston, Pioneer’s home business solutions groups marketing and product planning executive vice-president, puts it, "Often adjustments will be possible over the internet without requiring a truck roll."

The Pioneer Kuro three-chip D-ILA projector is designed to produce contrast ratios meaning its black levels are similar to those of the TVs, and has a rich color gamut, a wide lens shift capacity, dual HDMI 1.3 support, and a wide range of image adjustments and calibration settings.

Profile 1.1, but no BD-Live - yet...
The company's new Blu-ray Disc players offer BonusView capability, as part of their Profile 1.1 compatibility, but US customers will have to wait until the Fall - sorry, Autumn - to get BD Live-capable machines.

The machines have a system to upscale colour resolution, giving an effective 36-bit colour depth, use Wolfson DACs for improved audio quality, and also implement a strategy designed to eliminate jitter when playing music CDs via HDMI into a Pioneer receiver.

As soon as we have pictures of the new products we'll bring you them – until then, only two weeks to wait for the official UK announcements...

Is there any technical info on how much blacker the ECC will be compared to the 9G? (How much blacker is there?)ECC equals zero idle luminance. The 9G Kuros will have a idle luminance around the 0.001fL mark (I'm being very lenient here). You do the math :)

And when you say on track for next year, do you mean in 12 months from now we'll likely be awaiting the release of the ECC?Fall 2009.

And what about the issue of the possible bumps in the road in marrying Pioneer Tech to Panny glass? will there be any risks of problems relating to ghosting? How does the ECC play into your thinking on planning to get a 9G Kuro Elite. Do you think the ECC is extremely hyped? or do you see yourself getting one of those as well (despite the 'hell no' warnings) ;)Too many questions and I've already stated that the PDPs I purchase this year will have to last for at least 4 years :)

ECC equals zero idle luminance. The 9G Kuros will have a idle luminance around the 0.001fL mark (I'm being very lenient here). You do the math :)

Math was never my strong suit. But how much can a person notice the -0.001fL (or 1/100th) of luminance, going from 9G --> ECC?

Too many questions;) Ok sorry. Didn't realize I had gone past three wishes. ;)

and I've already stated that the PDPs I purchase this year will have to last for at least 4 years :) Well I presume then you don't feel it's worth waiting the 12-16 months for the ECC to be your four year PDP over getting the 9G now-ish.

D-NICE---
The new Elite blu-ray player has a metal remote. Will the new Elite TVs have metal remotes? Can you please tell me what changes have been made to the new remotes for the 9Gs? I am very interested. Thanks.

Is there any technical info on how much blacker the ECC will be compared to the 9G? (How much blacker is there?) And when you say on track for next year, do you mean in 12 months from now we'll likely be awaiting the release of the ECC? Or could it be sooner?.. And what about the issue of the possible bumps in the road in marrying Pioneer Tech to Panny glass? will there be any risks of problems relating to ghosting? How does the ECC play into your thinking on planning to get a 9G Kuro Elite. Do you think the ECC is extremely hyped? or do you see yourself getting one of those as well (despite the 'hell no' warnings) ;)
ECC is supposed to be ‘perfect’ contrast, 9G is just very dark grey. I thought chances were that they wouldn't be coming next year due to the Panasonic deal.

I do kind-of need a new display now, and I had told myself I could justify it with next year's displays potentially not being a big leap over this one due to them moving to Panasonic glass (personally I don't like it at all) but this throws doubt into my mind. There's also the fact that last year I tried to convince myself I'd be happy with one of the 8G Kuros but they still lit up the room plenty.

I already know that I'm so critical that I'm not going to be satisfied by the 9G black levels, but I'm stuck with a 15 year-old Trinitron right now and it's absolutely terrible. The convergence is way off and the white-balance/colour reproduction is poor. (not due to its age, just how Sony set things up) Thing is, if I do buy one this year, that's me stuck with it for at least another five if not more. If I go for the 60ʺ I'd really want to keep it until it dies at that price. (expected to be about £5000; $10,000)

Math was never my strong suit. But how much can a person notice the -0.001fL (or 1/100th) of luminance, going from 9G --> ECC?
Depends on your setup really; anything other than ‘perfect’ blacks is going to be noticeable in my room – I've got a window film that cuts out a significant amount of the light/heat coming in, and then blackout blind on top of that which keeps the room extremely dark even if the sun is at its brightest during the day. I've got all my equipment LEDs covered up/disabled where possible, and will be painting the ceiling/walls black in the near future.

I have the room ready, they just don't make any displays suitable for it yet. :(

Just some advice for everyone out there... I have been working in the electronics business for a few years now and I can tell you that the mark-up on televisions is usually 22 points (or 22%). I know for a fact (here in Canada anyway) that the cost of the PRO-110FD is $4700 (22% off MSRP). I do not know what dealer cost will be on the new Elites, but use the 22% as a guideline when trying to negotiate a deal at an electronics shop. So, if the new Elites are selling at $5500 for example, an offer of $5000 would still make the dealer money and you happy (although some dealers don't discount).
Anyways, just thought I'd let you guys know that TVs generally have a 22% mark-up (sometimes more... I've worked for Best Buy ;)

Having found this site only last month (looking for info on the "resurrection" of M&K Sound), I must say all you folks are great.

I purchased 2 Pioneer 8Gs in Oct '07 (5010 and 6010) and despite all of the debate over non-Elite or Elite I am not disappointed whatsoever. (I was waitng for SED but got discouraged.)

The technical data you folks provide is outstanding (if not tedious at times) and fun to watch the debates and exchanges. D-Nice and UMR posts alone are worth the effort to keep up on reading all of the entries.

While I may not be personally in the market for a display anytime soon, these forums are a huge benefit as I provide "advice" to the many friends and co-workers who do not grasp the complexities of this "passion" this group has for perfection!!!

I have recommended and installed several 5070s, 6070s, and a 5080 for my "customers" (but also other technologies as conditions dictated) so this thread and others will be of great interest.

The part about having "remote" calibration capabilities is quite interesting and based on all of the "fixing" I end up doing for un-educated purchasers of display and HT systems buyers I can see why the mfg's are heading in the direction (not to mention expanding their revenue streams).

Thanks!!!!!

I agree...it would seem that even with an elite, there is the risk of not getting one's money's worth. Ken, you're the only one I've seen who is very pleased with the non-Elite PQ. It's the direction I'm leaning (mainly due to price concerns) as well.

You guys seem to be thinking this is just a Pioneer problem when it is not limited to them.

Less than perfect performance can happen with any display. I have yet to see a single display manufacturer that makes 100% perfect products. For example, I worked on a $50,000 projector the other day that could not reproduce red properly. The client is trying to get it exchanged. I would say about 1% of the Elite units I have seen have significantly poorer color performance than desired. While about 20% of the surround systems I work on have a speaker that needs to be returned. If you never get your system checked though you may never know if you have problems.

On a completely off topic note, it's a great night to be from San Antonio!!!! :D:D:D

On a completely lame attempt to link to topic note, this is the fourth and last Spring I'll be muttering to myself that by next year's NBA playoffs, I'll be watching on my new plasma. Next year, I'll be watching on a 9th generation Pioneer. :D:D:D

On a completely off topic note, it's a great night to be from San Antonio!!!! :D:D:D

On a completely lame attempt to link to topic note, this is the fourth and last Spring I'll be muttering to myself that by next year's NBA playoffs, I'll be watching on my new plasma. Next year, I'll be watching on a 9th generation Pioneer. :D:D:D

Be strong Vashti, the 9Gs will be here soon.

For pokerrx ... use this link
http://imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

The callibrator I know and will use is Jeff Meier (whose forum name is umr) of accucalhd.com. He is not in New York but does callibration tours and comes here several times a year. His next NY tour will be in August. I know there are others. I haven't really tracked them because of my good experiences with Jeff. Htwaits has collected reports on lots of callibrators in a link under his signature. This can also be a good resource.

Thanks to the both of you for the info. One more thing...


GO SPURS GO!!!!!!!!:D:D:D

To everyone here,you'll may not understand how excited i am about getting my151. From going from a 60" Vizio to a pioneer is going to be crazy. I know my wife will never let me get another pdp for atleast another 4 years so I know this will be it. Thanks for all the info you all gave to make my decision easier.By the way Robert(value electronics) I got your reply and you will be hearing from me soon!

On a completely off topic note, it's a great night to be from San Antonio!!!! :D:D:D

On a completely lame attempt to link to topic note, this is the fourth and last Spring I'll be muttering to myself that by next year's NBA playoffs, I'll be watching on my new plasma. Next year, I'll be watching on a 9th generation Pioneer. :D:D:D

Way to go, Vashti! :D Looking forward to your 9G Owner Reviews!

no it aint.....:rolleyes:
has some log in page..

I think it is your problem, I have gone there from two different computers now, including one that has never visited the site.

I agree...it would seem that even with an elite, there is the risk of not getting one's money's worth. Ken, you're the only one I've seen who is very pleased with the non-Elite PQ. It's the direction I'm leaning (mainly due to price concerns) as well.I'm very happy with our calibrated 6010. I'm so far behind this thread today, you may never see my coment. :rolleyes:

The banner link is not working not the site.

The callibrator I know and will use is Jeff Meier (whose forum name is umr) of accucalhd.com. He is not in New York but does callibration tours and comes here several times a year. His next NY tour will be in August. I know there are others. I haven't really tracked them because of my good experiences with Jeff. Htwaits has collected reports on lots of callibrators in a link under his signature. This can also be a good resource.As you know, UMR did our audio/video calibration and we are very happy with it.

Others that I know about who work in that area are Eliab and Gregg Loewen (both are AVS user names). They have also had very good customer reviews in the two lists linked at the bottom of my post. ;)

Anyways, just thought I'd let you guys know that TVs generally have a 22% mark-up (sometimes more... I've worked for Best Buy ;)Thirty percent discounts were available for the Kuro 6010 from an AVS sponsor who is still in business after selling many many units to AVS members. I don't think BB Canada is sharing it's actual cost with it's sales people. ;)

Just some advice for everyone out there... I have been working in the electronics business for a few years now and I can tell you that the mark-up on televisions is usually 22 points (or 22%). I know for a fact (here in Canada anyway) that the cost of the PRO-110FD is $4700 (22% off MSRP). I do not know what dealer cost will be on the new Elites, but use the 22%
Anyways, just thought I'd let you guys know that TVs generally have a 22% mark-up (sometimes more... I've worked for Best Buy ;)

22% off of msrp is not a 22% mark up. And drop the cost talk, unless its advertised:rolleyes:

I have gen 7 pioneer plasma.. should I go for gen 9 or wait for gen 10 ?

Which movies would you guys say are the best tests of a sets black level abilities? Master & Commander on Blu-ray comes to mind, but what do you guys think?

Sunshine!

I have gen 7 pioneer plasma.. should I go for gen 9 or wait for gen 10 ?
Do the black levels on the 7G bother you? The 9G would be a significant upgrade, but 10G would be even more significant if D-Nice is right about them using the ECC tech.

I have gen 7 pioneer plasma.. should I go for gen 9 or wait for gen 10 ?If you like Pioneer get a 9G Kuro PDP, because next year's models will be Pioneer/Panasonic hybrids and no one really knows how those 1st generation panels will turn out.

BTW... has anyone been able to determine if the 9G Pioneer PDPs will support tru2way (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/opencable-officially-becomes-true2way/)?

If you like Pioneer get a 9G Kuro PDP, because next year's models will be Pioneer/Panasonic hybrids and no one really knows how those 1st generation panels will turn out.

BTW... has anyone been able to determine if the 9G Pioneer PDPs will support tru2way (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/opencable-officially-becomes-true2way/)?I think it was said a while
back (a couple days maybe a week) that tru2way left with the cable card slot. I may still be wrong.

That's right - no cable card of any kind.

What happen to "USER MODE" on this years models???? I loved this mode especially for day time.

What is the equivalent to the old "user" mode on the new panels "performance"?

I pulled the Trigger on buying a 9G Elite from Tweeter in Virginia. I decided to get an Elite as I do plan to keep the TV 8-10 years and figured get the best. I have put 20% down. Actually I could'nt do it over the phone, but my brother-in-law was able to go to the store in Virginia and buy 2 9G Elites. That particular Tweeter store is getting 20 in their first shipment and they already have 10 spoken for. If I compare the price of 8G Elite from Forum Sponsors vs Retail the price difference is very similar to whats being charged by Tweeter for a 9G Elite. I have not seen more than 17% price difference on Elites, ofcourse on non-Elites, you get a better price difference from a Forum Sponsor vs Retail. Yep I will have to pay sales tax but Virgiinia sales tax is 3.5% less than CA. I will be in Virginia middle of June and that is when I plan to pick up the TV.

I live in Bay Area, CA, so now the challenge is going to be getting it shipped. Any recommendations on who should I get it shipped through. I want to avoid FedEX or UPS as I am not sure they have experience in shipping such a big TV. The shipping is making me nervous and is making me question if its a smart decision :confused: I can fully insure the shipment but would like to get help with who is the best shipment company I should look into.

I will still wait to see what price Forum Sponsors come up with as I have the option to cancel my Tweeter order anytime and get full refund.

Thanks for your help.

D-Nice-
Pioneer is using a metal remote for the new Elite Blu-Ray player. Are they using the same type of metal remote for the new Elite TVs? Can you please tell me more about the new remotes (slimmer design? More buttons? Whats new?) Thanks D-Nice I appreciate everything you do on here for us :)

D-Nice-
Pioneer is using a metal remote for the new Elite Blu-Ray player. Are they using the same type of metal remote for the new Elite TVs? Can you please tell me more about the new remotes (slimmer design? More buttons? Whats new?) Thanks D-Nice I appreciate everything you do on here for us :)I don't know anything about the remotes beyond a new design.

NanoRish as an end user it is going to be very very hard for you to get a Plasma shipped cheap and to have them cover it with insurance. I mean that for most freight companies, just an FYI. Also recently other companies were blowing out last years models that is why you saw a good deal with local stores that only happens once a year.

I pulled the Trigger on buying a 9G Elite from Tweeter in Virginia. I decided to get an Elite as I do plan to keep the TV 8-10 years and figured get the best. I have put 20% down. Actually I could'nt do it over the phone, but my brother-in-law was able to go to the store in Virginia and buy 2 9G Elites. That particular Tweeter store is getting 20 in their first shipment and they already have 10 spoken for. If I compare the price of 8G Elite from Forum Sponsors vs Retail the price difference is very similar to whats being charged by Tweeter for a 9G Elite. I have not seen more than 17% price difference on Elites, ofcourse on non-Elites, you get a better price difference from a Forum Sponsor vs Retail. Yep I will have to pay sales tax but Virgiinia sales tax is 3.5% less than CA. I will be in Virginia middle of June and that is when I plan to pick up the TV.

I live in Bay Area, CA, so now the challenge is going to be getting it shipped. Any recommendations on who should I get it shipped through. I want to avoid FedEX or UPS as I am not sure they have experience in shipping such a big TV. The shipping is making me nervous and is making me question if its a smart decision :confused: I can fully insure the shipment but would like to get help with who is the best shipment company I should look into.

I will still wait to see what price Forum Sponsors come up with as I have the option to cancel my Tweeter order anytime and get full refund.

Thanks for your help.

I too have taken advantage of Tweeter's current offer (sorry, Roman :-). And yes...I had to go into the store to complete the transaction as well. I was told I'm 3rd on the list for the store's "region" (I'm in South Carolina), but the sales rep couldn't tell me how many were supposed to be coming in either.

Once real-world pricing starts filtering out, I'm sure I'll probably end up paying a good deal more than what I might pay if I were to do a phone order with one of the forum's sponsors. From what I've been able to research, it seems our sponsors do some pretty agressive pricing and they know how to treat their customers.

However, the 151FD will be part of a larger HT project that just might end up being installed by Tweeter. I've talked to the local head of their integration unit and he seems to know his stuff. He's coming out to scope the project out later this week. In my case, while I'm sure I'll be paying more (perhaps a lot more), I will end up with the peace of mind and the other advantages that comes with buying local.

On a purchase this large, I'd normally suggest that others to do likewise...especally if they are doing a full HT integration project. However, in your case, I'm wondering if you might want to reconsider your plans.

It would seem to me that any price advantage you might have from not buying local will be outweighed by having to ship the unit cross country yourself. From several different aspects, this does not seem to be a good idea.

If buying local just won't do, I would think it would be far, far more advantageous to go with one of the forum's sponsors. They know all the ins and outs of shipping and do this sort of thing on a regular basis. They also apparently know how to provide service after the sale. The testimony of this is evident all over the forum.

Of course, this is only one man's opinon. But right now, it appears the potential downsides are huge in comparison to any advantages you might gain with your current plan.

I too have taken advantage of Tweeter's current offer (sorry, Roman :-). And yes...I had to go into the store to complete the transaction as well. I was told I'm 3rd on the list for the store's "region" (I'm in South Carolina), but the sales rep couldn't tell me how many were supposed to be coming in either.

Once real-world pricing starts filtering out, I'm sure I'll probably end up paying a good deal more than what I might pay if I were to do a phone order with one of the forum's sponsors. From what I've been able to research, it seems our sponsors do some pretty agressive pricing and they know how to treat their customers.

However, the 151FD will be part of a larger HT project that just might end up being installed by Tweeter. I've talked to the local head of their integration unit and he seems to know his stuff. He's coming out to scope the project out later this week. In my case, while I'm sure I'll be paying more (perhaps a lot more), I will end up with the peace of mind and the other advantages that comes with buying local.

On a purchase this large, I'd normally suggest that others to do likewise...especally if they are doing a full HT integration project. However, in your case, I'm wondering if you might want to reconsider your plans.

It would seem to me that any price advantage you might have from not buying local will be outweighed by having to ship the unit cross country yourself. From several different aspects, this does not seem to be a good idea.

If buying local just won't do, I would think it would be far, far more advantageous to go with one of the forum's sponsors. They know all the ins and outs of shipping and do this sort of thing on a regular basis. They also apparently know how to provide service after the sale. The testimony of this is evident all over the forum.

Of course, this is only one man's opinon. But right now, it appears the potential downsides are huge in comparison to any advantages you might gain with your current plan.Which Tweeter did you go to?

I too have taken advantage of Tweeter's current offer (sorry, Roman :-). And yes...I had to go into the store to complete the transaction as well. I was told I'm 3rd on the list for the store's "region" (I'm in South Carolina), but the sales rep couldn't tell me how many were supposed to be coming in either.

Once real-world pricing starts filtering out, I'm sure I'll probably end up paying a good deal more than what I might pay if I were to do a phone order with one of the forum's sponsors. From what I've been able to research, it seems our sponsors do some pretty agressive pricing and they know how to treat their customers.

However, the 151FD will be part of a larger HT project that just might end up being installed by Tweeter. I've talked to the local head of their integration unit and he seems to know his stuff. He's coming out to scope the project out later this week. In my case, while I'm sure I'll be paying more (perhaps a lot more), I will end up with the peace of mind and the other advantages that comes with buying local.

On a purchase this large, I'd normally suggest that others to do likewise...especally if they are doing a full HT integration project. However, in your case, I'm wondering if you might want to reconsider your plans.

It would seem to me that any price advantage you might have from not buying local will be outweighed by having to ship the unit cross country yourself. From several different aspects, this does not seem to be a good idea.

If buying local just won't do, I would think it would be far, far more advantageous to go with one of the forum's sponsors. They know all the ins and outs of shipping and do this sort of thing on a regular basis. They also apparently know how to provide service after the sale. The testimony of this is evident all over the forum.

Of course, this is only one man's opinon. But right now, it appears the potential downsides are huge in comparison to any advantages you might gain with your current plan.

Would this happen to be the Tweeter in Charleston, SC? Reason I ask is because Im in that area and asked them last week about there 9g offers (after they pulled it from there ad's) and they kinda played dumb and acted very unsure as to when they would get them and tried to sell me a 110 instead which I already own.

Also, sort of off topic, but do you know of any reputable ISF certified calibraters in the SC area, preferably Charleston. I dont have a whole lot of faith on BB's geek squad.

Would this happen to be the Tweeter in Charleston, SC? Reason I ask is because Im in that area and asked them last week about there 9g offers (after they pulled it from there ad's) and they kinda played dumb and acted very unsure as to when they would get them and tried to sell me a 110 instead which I already own.

Also, sort of off topic, but do you know of any reputable ISF certified calibraters in the SC area, preferably Charleston. I dont have a whole lot of faith on BB's geek squad.None. Perhaps one day I'll pay you a visit ;)

luvnhateSony & D-Nice,

It was the Tweeter in Mt. Pleasant, SC, which is, as you guys probably know, part of the greater Charleston, SC area.

As far as calibrators go, I was hoping to use Jeff (posts under the name of UMR) when he does one of his tours out this way. Other than that, I don't know of anyone else locally. That is, unless, D-Nice is trying to hint that he is local to us??:)

If so, that would be a hoot. Our little metro area is so far behind the times in most things, it would be ironic to have one of the forum's preminante plasma authorities living in our own back yard.:D

Televisions
US NEWS: Pioneer launches new Kuro TVs and projector, hand-selected Elite Signature screens and new Blu-ray players
May 08, 2008

There's still a fortnight to go until Pioneer's UK launch of its new Kuro TV line-up, but the company's US launch, held yesterday, may give some ideas what to expect.

Shown at the New York event were four new Kuro plasma TVs - two each in 50in and 60in sizes, plus a new range of Signature Elite monitors, hand-selected for quality.
And the company also launching its first Kuro projector, a three-chip D-ILA model.

The new mainstream Kuro models are said to offer five times deeper black levels than the current TVs, and are around 9.4cm thick, said to be a 30% reduction on last year's models. And the Signature models are even thinner, at under 7cm.

Optimum Mode Adjustment
They have a new Optimum Mode automatic adjustment, monitoring both ambient light and video brightness, and an improved remote control and on-screen graphical user interface. They also have a USB input and DLNA/Windows PlaysForSure networking compatibility for streaming music, stills and HD video files.

The Elite Signature models, also in 50in and 60in versions, come without TV tuners, and have been hand-assembled from selected parts. They come with a certificate confirming this, and have an IP connectivity function to allow a dealer to connect to the screen over the internet and make adjustments.

Hold the truck roll
Or, as Russ Johnston, Pioneer’s home business solutions groups marketing and product planning executive vice-president, puts it, "Often adjustments will be possible over the internet without requiring a truck roll."
The Pioneer Kuro three-chip D-ILA projector is designed to produce contrast ratios meaning its black levels are similar to those of the TVs, and has a rich color gamut, a wide lens shift capacity, dual HDMI 1.3 support, and a wide range of image adjustments and calibration settings.

Profile 1.1, but no BD-Live - yet...
The company's new Blu-ray Disc players offer BonusView capability, as part of their Profile 1.1 compatibility, but US customers will have to wait until the Fall - sorry, Autumn - to get BD Live-capable machines.

The machines have a system to upscale colour resolution, giving an effective 36-bit colour depth, use Wolfson DACs for improved audio quality, and also implement a strategy designed to eliminate jitter when playing music CDs via HDMI into a Pioneer receiver.

As soon as we have pictures of the new products we'll bring you them – until then, only two weeks to wait for the official UK announcements...

Kuro Projector ? YES! please

I'm guessing larger than 70" of Pio pleasure is going to get a LOT more affordable than I thought.

My 5070 is great for a bedroom TV, my 5080 in the living room....adequate
But in the basement man-cave it's gotta be 140"+

luvnhateSony & D-Nice,

It was the Tweeter in Mt. Pleasant, SC, which is, as you guys probably know, part of the greater Charleston, SC area.

As far as calibrators go, I was hoping to use Jeff (posts under the name of UMR) when he does one of his tours out this way. Other than that, I don't know of anyone else locally. That is, unless, D-Nice is trying to hint that he is local to us??:)

If so, that would be a hoot. Our little metro area is so far behind the times in most things, it would be ironic to have one of the forum's preminante plasma authorities living in our own back yard.:DI am 118 miles north of you....taking I-26 West :D

I am 118 miles north of you....taking I-26 West :D

Amazing. Go 'Cocks! (That's the SC Gamecocks to all of you from "off"). Come down sometime for a little shrimp-n-grits!:D

Also, sort of off topic, but do you know of any reputable ISF certified calibraters in the SC area, preferably Charleston. I dont have a whole lot of faith on BB's geek squad.You can check for tours to your area by these members of AVS -- UMR, Eliab, and Gregg Loewen. Those are all AVS user names so you can get their contact information by doing an advanced search by user name and then clicking on their name associated with any of their posts.

You can also check out their work by reading the two lists that are linked at the bottom of my post.

As far as calibrators go, I was hoping to use Jeff (posts under the name of UMR) when he does one of his tours out this way. Other than that, I don't know of anyone else locally. I just posted two others that might do tours to your area. :)

None. Perhaps one day I'll pay you a visit ;)

It would be a pleasure and an honor! A legend like youself is more than welcomed at my home! My pioneer elite especially would welcome your visit:)

As far as there being NO certified ISF calibraters in chuck town, well thats just depressing for a guy who would love his elite to unleash its full fury. And like I said before I'll live strictly on your settings before I have geek squad lay there unqualified hands on my Kuro.

Tell you what D-nice you bless my elite with your greatness and I'll officially drop Sony from my member name and change it all together to luvnothingbutKuro.:D

Im starting to wonder if we met already;)

Quote: I live in Bay Area, CA, so now the challenge is going to be getting it shipped.

Shipping from Virginia to California?? You are a bigger gambler than I. Whatever money you saved will be spent .... or even more so ... to ship it cross country. And you better hope there's no problem and you have to ship it back. Good luck.

:Amazing. Go 'Cocks! (That's the SC Gamecocks to all of you from "off"). Come down sometime for a little shrimp-n-grits!:D

AMAZING INDEED! Let me know when everybodys getting together for dinner:D

By the way Shutterman, the Mt.Pleasant Tweeter was the one I refered to on my earlier post and was wondering if they gave you an idea as to when the 111's will be in or available?

Just got off the phone with Pioneer. After being re-directed to about 5 different reps, I finally got some info. on the new Elites. The rep at head office in Canada has seen the new demos and confirmed that the new remotes (for the Elites anyway) have a metallic finish with silver trimming. He said they are just about as long as the old remotes, they are not as thick but they are heavy and durable. He said they really compliment the new TVs.
He also said that the difference between the 8G 110FD and his demo of the 111FD is minimal, but definitely noticable in a dark room. He said the blacks do look darker when the two ar side-by-side with the right lighting conditions.
So... it sounds like these new TVs will be totally awesome and I am very excited!!:)

The rep at head office in Canada has seen the new demos and confirmed that the new remotes (for the Elites anyway) have a metallic finish with silver trimming.

By the word "finish" I assume this means the remote is metal-colored plastic as opposed to being made from actual metal. Did he specify? Not that plastic's a bad thing ... in fact unless made out of way-too-expensive magnesium or titanium, a metal remote would be to heavy anyway.

does anyone have a copy of the tweeter add?
i went into my local sound advice (tweeter) and they had no idea what i was talking about.

22% off of msrp is not a 22% mark up. And drop the cost talk, unless its advertised:rolleyes:

Thank you :)

Roman, do you know what the prices are yet?

I just posted two others that might do tours to your area. :)

Do you know who does a tour in Florida by any chance?

does anyone have a copy of the tweeter add?
i went into my local sound advice (tweeter) and they had no idea what i was talking about.

was the tweeter add in a flier? was it on the web, does someone have a copy of it please?

Please?thx

Roman, do you know what the prices are yet?

Not yet boss :(

Well, keep us informed:D.

I asked this question before but didn't get any responses and thought this thread might have enough Kuro experts reading it to answer me: have any of you with current Elite models been able to stream your blu ray rips from your pc, or hook up an external hard drive to your elite kuro and play blu ray rips like that. I currently use my PS3 and a tvix 6500 to stream blu ray rips, but am going to be getting either the current 5010 or the 5020. I have looked on Pioneer's site and it states MPEG2 files and WMV9 (is this all VC-1 or just certain VC-1 files). If th 5020 will allow me to stream these rips then I might be better off going he slightly cheaper route of the 5010. Thanks in advance for any info.

D-NICE, where are you getting this info from on the 9G, according to PIONEER, there are no units out there yet. And they only have 2 Engineering samples, curious?

Not yet boss :(

How come my local Sound Advice is quoting me prices? and already has a pre-order going?

Have any members on this thread received a spam PM from a fellow thread member? I just received the following unsolicited PM:

"Give Invision Technologies a call and ask for Alex, they can work with you on price and they are authorized with Pioneer. 888-(XXX-XXX)."

I added the XXXXs.

I'm assuming this is against forum rules. At this point I'll leave the sender's name anonymous unless specifically asked by the thread moderator.

are we supposed to know the prices by this week??

How come my local Sound Advice is quoting me prices? and already has a pre-order going?

what prices are the quoting you? Please PM me.
thx

How come my local Sound Advice is quoting me prices? and already has a pre-order going?

I can make a guess and take pre orders (not saying that is what they are doing) we just want to be 100% accurate, I dont know what they are quoting so cant comment.

Sorry Roman. My appologizies for discussing cost.
What I was trying to get across to people was that there is "room to play with" when negotiating a deal on an Elite. Many dealers here in Canada refuse to discount MSRP which is ridiculous. I have seen posts from fellow Canadian members saying that dealers won't discount. So, I was basically trying to let other members know that there is some room to move on these panels. Again, my appologizies for discussing cost.

I am 118 miles north of you....taking I-26 West :D

Man, I would have taken your posts much less seriously if I had known you lived in Columbia...

I have an opportunity to purchase a PRO-110FD at a great price point. I am considerng the deal. I want to know, would the 110 be a good investment for the next few years? Assuming you're getting a phenomenal deal on it, would you guys go with the 110??!! I am seriously considering it, as it is a great panel and I assume it won't be outdated for the next few years. Any comments?

9g Kuros retail prices have been announced. Actually at the press realease last week. The Pioneer Elite road show is taking place this week in CA. We should start see pricing by end of week or early next. Contact an authorized Pioneer dealer next week and see what they say.

I can make a guess and take pre orders (not saying that is what they are doing) we just want to be 100% accurate, I dont know what they are quoting so cant comment.


You can take pre orders, I do not see you on Pioneer web site. Let me know.

D-NICE, where are you getting this info from on the 9G, according to PIONEER, there are no units out there yet. And they only have 2 Engineering samples, curious?

According to Pioneer? I was not aware that Pioneer was a person, what is his number? I have a lot of questions for that guy.:rolleyes:

I have an opportunity to purchase a PRO-110FD at a great price point. I am considerng the deal. I want to know, would the 110 be a good investment for the next few years? Assuming you're getting a phenomenal deal on it, would you guys go with the 110??!! I am seriously considering it, as it is a great panel and I assume it won't be outdated for the next few years. Any comments?

It is definitely a great product. I understand how you feel the new models will be out but there are thousands of happy people with 110FD, you cant go wrong with the 110FD is you can find one.

D-NICE, where are you getting this info from on the 9G,Not Pioneer NA ;)

according to PIONEER, there are no units out there yet. And they only have 2 Engineering samples, curious?2 engineering samples of what model?

Thanks for the advice Roman!
The only thing I was worried about was if the new Elites had superior blacks to the 110. From what I understand, the blacks will be 5X better, but, the difference will be marginal... meaning most people won't notice a huge difference.
I do have a few questions for you Roman;
If I get the 110 professionally calibrated, will it have "almost" the same quality image as the new Elites?
What is the luminance of the 110? (So I can compare it to the new Elites)
And do you think the 110 is a good investment for the next few years?

Thanks for everything Roman :)

Yes the 110FD is a good investment for many years. It is hard for me to tell you how much difference you will notice, I have not seen both side by side and probably wont, the dilemma is being able to find a 110 to compare when the 111 come out so you just have to make the decision.

Does anyone know when the new Elite blue-ray player (BDP-05FD) will be available? Pioneer customer service was non-commital about it.

Superman begins seems to challenge shadow details as well. A much darker
movie than I'd anticipated.

Sigh... 9G or not.... I'm still debating thanks to a major budget change. :(

Does anyone know when the new Elite blue-ray player (BDP-05FD) will be available? Pioneer customer service was non-commital about it.

Looking like late August, but that can always change.

...As far as there being NO certified ISF calibraters in chuck town, well thats just depressing for a guy who would love his elite to unleash its full fury. And like I said before I'll live strictly on your settings before I have geek squad lay there unqualified hands on my Kuro....


I travel to Charlestown in February and October.

Why do so many people live in South Carolina??? UMR, do you ever take a visit to cincinnati? Ever?

If you don't mind I will run your question by the Pioneer specialist. I think they might be able to let you know the effects of the calibration in comparison to the new Elite's

Alex is correct we just received word from Pioneer today that the Blu-Ray will be out late July, the 6020 and 5020, late June along with the Receiver's. They even listed the Elite's for late June. Hopefully these dates will stand.

According to Pioneer? I was not aware that Pioneer was a person, what is his number? I have a lot of questions for that guy.:rolleyes:

You can always call me at 310-952-2000

You can always call me at 310-952-2000lol. Way to make my day slightly brighter. :D:D Anybody have any more news on the remote??

I have a few days left to return the BDP-95FD I bought. I assume the new BDP-05FD will be a better unit with a $200 MSRP price drop. The slow boot and disc-load times with the 95 are pretty irritating. I have read the 05 is almost as fast as DVD players and has other features the 95 doesn't. Any significant improvement in PQ with the 05 ,though, or pretty comparable?

Alex is correct we just received word from Pioneer today that the Blu-Ray will be out late July, the 6020 and 5020, late June along with the Receiver's. They even listed the Elite's for late June. Hopefully these dates will stand.

I travel to Charlestown in February and October.

Thanks for the heads up UMR!

D-Nice,

I live in Atlanta; but just bought a mountain home at Cliffs Valley, north of Greenville. If you have Greenville dealer recommendations for Pioneer 9G or Signature, please PM me. If you play golf, I'll have you up as thanks from the many forum members and all your efforts.

Thanks for the advice Roman!
The only thing I was worried about was if the new Elites had superior blacks to the 110. From what I understand, the blacks will be 5X better, but, the difference will be marginal... meaning most people won't notice a huge difference.
I do have a few questions for you Roman;
If I get the 110 professionally calibrated, will it have "almost" the same quality image as the new Elites?
What is the luminance of the 110? (So I can compare it to the new Elites)
And do you think the 110 is a good investment for the next few years?

Thanks for everything Roman :)

If I may help you out. The new panels to the human eye will look about 10-15% darker in the blacks. The question of luminance is one that will not be posted by Pioneer, nor will any major technical spec of this nature. There are tooooooo many variables, with out fileter, with filter. Room environment is a big one, and the list goes on. Video quality will be the same, and you can calibrate all color to look the same, but again, Roman is correct, a reference monitor is best for best calibration to take place. Pure Cinema III is still in affect, not much new here. To many people caught up in these "specs" how about taking a look at source. Great source, great image, crappy source, ok image. When is the FCC going to wrap this whole HD thing up.

I sold Lucas Film several plasma screens for editing episode III of Star Wars. These were industrial monitors, but we gave them the option of sub color adjustment, etc. In thei situation, a broadcast monitor was used for calibration. What looks good to one does not always look good to another.

When you get into calibration, which in the new panels is highly unnecessary, you open yourself up to a whole new world. Having calibrated panels, having sit throught ISF SCHOOL, I can tell you this, 90% of those people out there will never know the difference between a "calibrated panel" and one out of the box.

Bye the way, the new KRP Pioneer monitors coming out in August will be the bomb. Who needs a tuner anyway. Stand by for PURE excellence when they arrive!

Not Pioneer NA ;)

2 engineering samples of what model?

9g product, all that can be said!

Hahahaha,

Dnice, his eminence, is being courted in the SE of America.

Its unbelievable, really, that we have to rely on this or "his" source in Japan for info that we need to intelligently buy a product in North America that is sold worldwide.

While I appreciate his efforts, where is the management and marketing in this company? It is quite simply non-existent.

What is it that pioneer doesnt understand? They never produced enough units to sell in 2008 ( especially Elite models) to meet sales projections, and then they turn around and say they lost millions of dollars from lack of sales.

I predict the same this year. Limited supply and zero marketing support.

Paul

Why do so many people live in South Carolina??? UMR, do you ever take a visit to cincinnati? Ever?

Next week I will be there, but I am already booked for that trip. I will return later in the year.

Hahahaha,

Dnice, his eminence, is being courted in the SE of America.

Its unbelievable, really, that we have to rely on this or "his" source in Japan for info that we need to intelligently buy a product in North America that is sold worldwide.

While I appreciate his efforts, where is the management and marketing in this company? It is quite simply non-existent.

What is it that pioneer doesnt understand? They never produced enough units to sell in 2008 ( especially Elite models) to meet sales projections, and then they turn around and say they lost millions of dollars from lack of sales.

I predict the same this year. Limited supply and zero marketing support.

Paul

Your superlatives are overstated but you definitely have a point. Pio's marketing has been very poor ... but they seem to be getting somewhat better at it. They obviously have a great product ... superior at this point ... but have a problem selling it. Anyway, Pio sure has most of us here hot and lusting for these new ultra plasmas.

What they need is some innovative, Apple style marketing that's the same quality as their wares. And they could even make their higher (highest?) price points a marketing tool ... just like BMW.

OK. I gotta ask. What's a KRP Monitor?

Special thanks goes out to Pioneerdude!!
I have made up my mind that I will be purchasing the 110FD tommorow (the price is too good to pass up and I love the look). I have read several reviews that say the 110 "is built like a $6,000 TV" so it must have premium parts :)
I also looked up a few luminance specs. Most reviews I read say the 8G measured at .0004 and the new 9G is expected to measure at .0001 So, you are completely right in saying there is probably a 10-15% difference to the human eye. I am sure I will be thrilled for years to come with the 110.
In the meantime, I love discussing the new panels on this forum. I think Pioneer makes the best flat panel on this earth and I am sure the 9G's will rock!!
Thanks again for all the support Pioneerdude!

Bye the way, the new KRP Pioneer monitors coming out in August will be the bomb. Who needs a tuner anyway. Stand by for PURE excellence when they arrive!

Okay, let me get this straight. If I draw my HD signal from a cable box or from a DVD/Blu-ray player, then I can get by with a monitor? I live in a town where cable is essential--no reception OTA. (Some folks say that cable started out here, but who really knows?)

On the other hand, if by monitor, we mean > $,$$$ or 'less is more $', then I may have to save my funds and buy one with a tuner. I'm just startin' out with HD and have to get everything--ca-ching, ca-ching, ca-ching!

Hey ColtsFreak18 and UMR:

I will be living in the Cincinnati area beginning this summer (July). If UMR will be in that area this fall, maybe ColtsFreak18 and I can coordinate times for a visit? I should have at least one, possibly two KUROs for attention...:)

KDD

Hey ColtsFreak18 and UMR:

I will be living in the Cincinnati area beginning this summer (July). If UMR will be in that area this fall, maybe ColtsFreak18 and I can coordinate times for a visit? I should have at least one, possibly two KUROs for attention...:)

KDD

I work on way more than just Kuro's, but that would be a possibility this winter.

You may disagree with Pioneer's marketing and limited supply but they have always cared more about quality rather than quantity. They are the most desirable screen in the industry. That is why they place such a high premium on authorized dealership.

The 60" Elite 9G is only $900 more than the 50" Elite 9G.
for a little less than $500 a month payments for one year I could own the 151FD.

Or I could save $500 a month and buy a 10G.

or I could get a 50" Vizio HQV for less than 2 grand.

or a Black Friday Special for less than a grand.

oh well.... back to watching my girlfriends 37" panasonic plasma.

Hey ColtsFreak18 and UMR:

I will be living in the Cincinnati area beginning this summer (July). If UMR will be in that area this fall, maybe ColtsFreak18 and I can coordinate times for a visit? I should have at least one, possibly two KUROs for attention...:)

KDDHopefully... if I end up getting a Kuro. Not sure if I will wait until the 10g so I don't have to move a 9g once I move to knoxville (moving about may or june of next year). I'll PM you if I end up getting a 9g. New question to UMR. Do you ever go on tour to Knoxville? I won't need it for a while, but I'm just wonderin.

for a little less than $500 a month payments for one year I could own the 151FD.

When you say it like that, it makes it sound so expensive:eek:.

How about a 36 month payment plan.:D

I am 118 miles north of you....taking I-26 West :D

Wow, never realized you were in Cola :)

John

You may disagree with Pioneer's marketing and limited supply but they have always cared more about quality rather than quantity. They are the most desirable screen in the industry. That is why they place such a high premium on authorized dealership.

Authorized Dealership? You cant be more disallusioned.

If Pioneer doesnt make a profit this year, I wouldnt be too vested about your authorized anything. Your "franchise" is on egg shells my boy. I wonder if they have projections about sales in 2008. The late June or July intro leaves very little time to get it right this year.

I am just weary of this secretive forum method of one man who is just an afficiando of the tech, and knows someone, somewhere, releasing a majority of the info about this product ( and 10g) when we are speaking of a multi billion dollar company. Its just ridiculous.

I dont want Apple, just Pioneer telling us what we can expect thats all.

Good Luck

Paul

Authorized Dealership? You cant be more disallusioned.

If Pioneer doesnt make a profit this year, I wouldnt be too vested about your authorized anything. Your "franchise" is on egg shells my boy. I wonder if they have projections about sales in 2008. The late June or July intro leaves very little time to get it right this year.

I am just weary of this secretive forum method of one man who is just an afficiando of the tech, and knows someone, somewhere, releasing a majority of the info about this product ( and 10g) when we are speaking of a multi billion dollar company. Its just ridiculous.

I dont want Apple, just Pioneer telling us what we can expect thats all.

Good Luck

Paul


You are an idiot if you think that the world relies on D Nice for info about Pioneer panels. There are plenty of D Nice's around the world, many of them just do not sit at a computer and answer forum questions with their free time. Many more people are in the know, than you think Paul.

Wow, never realized you were in Cola :)

JohnIt wasn't hard to find out if you have been on the forums for awhile. He used to have his location in binary and when you ran it through, SC came up. I thought it meant southern california at first. Nice to hear you are a southerner (kind of) like me.:cool:

Hopefully... if I end up getting a Kuro. Not sure if I will wait until the 10g so I don't have to move a 9g once I move to knoxville (moving about may or june of next year). I'll PM you if I end up getting a 9g. New question to UMR. Do you ever go on tour to Knoxville? I won't need it for a while, but I'm just wonderin.

Yes. I will be there next week.

Yes. I will be there next week.Really. That is pretty nice. How many times a year do you go there. Too bad I'm not in the future with a kuro and a house in knox.

Alex is correct we just received word from Pioneer today that the Blu-Ray will be out late July, the 6020 and 5020, late June along with the Receiver's. They even listed the Elite's for late June. Hopefully these dates will stand.

Is the VSX-1018TXH-K AVR included in that June date or just the Elites?

You are an idiot if you think that the world relies on D Nice for info about Pioneer panels. There are plenty of D Nice's around the world, many of them just do not sit at a computer and answer forum questions with their free time. Many more people are in the know, than you think Paul.

Yeah,

Here comes the guy with 11 posts.

OK, im a lawyer, and I like to see evidence. Where are the people in the know? Care to share a link?

You dont get it do you? Even if I accept the notion that a few more people are in the know, what about the 800k people that decide on buying it and dont have that information?

North America Pioneer is retarded. You would have to be a fool if you didnt realize the marketing is broken.

On a positive note, I will be buying a 9g. However, I fear the franchise is in serious financial question and I would like to see it continue.

Paul

Is the VSX-1018TXH-K AVR included in that June date or just the Elites?

Late June for Standard Elite Receivers, late August for the SC-05 and SC-07 Elite Line.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/new-pioneer-elite-av-receivers,383223.shtml

The Link above talks about the new Elite Receivers.

Why are you so worried about Pioneer's profitability? As you know profits do not always reflect the health of the company. It is the quality of the screens I am eluding to. First things first, I am not a boy and I have been in business for 33 years. I founded Invision with my daughter 10 years ago when plasmas first hit the street and we have been a Pioneer dealer since the beginning. We are not a franchise but rather a small business that takes pride in our reputation. I don't know about anyone else but our conversations come directly from Pioneer. There is not a middle man or heresay. Call it the way you like it but your comments should be relegated to a pm, I would be most happy to discuss this with you.
__________________

Paul, it's not like Pioneer is holding out the information and relying on D-Nice to get the word out. They just haven't released it. I think we'll get lots more info from Pioneer this week. We just happen to be lucky enough to have someone here with contacts who gets info earlier and shares it.

Really. That is pretty nice. How many times a year do you go there. Too bad I'm not in the future with a kuro and a house in knox.

Usually twice a year, but that frequency is likely to change soon.;)

Bye the way, the new KRP Pioneer monitors coming out in August will be the bomb. Who needs a tuner anyway. Stand by for PURE excellence when they arrive!

Can you say anything else about the Signature series? What does KRP stand for? Differences between this and Elite other than no tuner and speakers and thinner?

I'm wondering if the introduction of the new model could lead to a deterioration in Elite quality. If the best models were cherry-picked before and became Elites (lower tolerance for variability from standards) and now the best components will be cherry picked to be put into Signature monitors, does that mean the Elites will be getting a lower quality of panel?

The number of posts should never be the consideration for the value of the knowledge imparted by forum members whether it be 11 or 2000. Everyone contributes to the success of the forum.

Paul, it's not like Pioneer is holding out the information and relying on D-Nice to get the word out. They just haven't released it. I think we'll get lots more info from Pioneer this week. We just happen to be lucky enough to have someone here with contacts who gets info earlier and shares it.

Vashti,

Thats the point. They just release it and dont sell or market it right. When they do its a load. Eyes blinking on a chest?

You know what Im talking about. Thats why you are here my dear. We have to rely on this forum, which is great but limited.

To all of those that think that profitability is NOT important in corporations, post me in 2009.

Paul

I think we can all agree that Pioneer seriously fumbled marketing last year. I just don't think I have enough information yet to say they'll do the same this year. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I'm still hopeful.

If the best models were cherry-picked before and became Elites (lower tolerance for variability from standards) and now the best components will be cherry picked to be put into Signature monitors, does that mean the Elites will be getting a lower quality of panel?

+1, D-Nice? Anyone have any information to share on that?

+1, D-Nice? Anyone have any information to share on that?

I doubt you would be able to make a case that the Signature would be more reliable or vise versa.

I doubt you would be able to make a case that the Signature would be more reliable or vise versa.

Exactly,

More of the same marketing load.

Exactly,

More of the same marketing load.

Haha they should call it the Kuro Elite-ER, or Elite-EST ;)

Exactly,

More of the same marketing load.

They are for different clients one tuner one without :)

Pioneer is still a great product and definitly worth waiting for.

D-Nice, can you comment on what Bumtious mentions in the European AV Forum:
"... the sets with the media box in September will be known as the KP or KR range IE KP509/609 and will be slimmer due to the some of the electronics in the media box." Is this what is being called the Signature series in the NA market or is it another model that won't be available in NA?

Paul, it's not like Pioneer is holding out the information and relying on D-Nice to get the word out. They just haven't released it. I think we'll get lots more info from Pioneer this week. We just happen to be lucky enough to have someone here with contacts who gets info earlier and shares it.

This thread now reads like a post-modern version of Waiting for Godot.

Mr. Beckett and myself now hoist a couple of creamy pints of Guinness Kuro to salute your patience Vashti.:)

This thread now read like a post-modern version of Waiting for Godot.

Mr. Beckett and myself now hoist a couple of creamy pints of Guinness Kuro to salute your patience Vashti.:)

Ouch! Just feel off chair laughing.

Satuday, I saw a spoof of waiting for Godot with sock puppets as part of a one-act festival. :eek:

Greenland, are you jumping in this year or continuing to wait for more energy efficiency?

D-Nice, can you comment on what Bumtious mentions in the European AV Forum:
"... the sets with the media box in September will be known as the KP or KR range IE KP509/609 and will be slimmer due to the some of the electronics in the media box." Is this what is being called the Signature series in the NA market or is it another model that won't be available in NA?I'd assume that it would be the signature series, even though I'm not sure if our signature series will have an external box or not.

Pioneer is still a great product and definitly worth waiting for.

Alex and Sereen are such the invisionists.:rolleyes:

Your superlatives are overstated but you definitely have a point. Pio's marketing has been very poor ... but they seem to be getting somewhat better at it. They obviously have a great product ... superior at this point ... but have a problem selling it. Anyway, Pio sure has most of us here hot and lusting for these new ultra plasmas.

What they need is some innovative, Apple style marketing that's the same quality as their wares. And they could even make their higher (highest?) price points a marketing tool ... just like BMW.


Unfortunately PIONEER'S new marketing firm for KURO is also Apples.

I'd assume that it would be the signature series, even though I'm not sure if our signature series will have an external box or not.

From PIO UK site, the box is just an HDMI splitter add-on, and I do not think, based on prior posts, the US Signature's will have this. Really no reason to have this if the Videophile buying it also has the appropriate Audiophile HDMI Receiver.

Yeah,

Here comes the guy with 11 posts.

OK, im a lawyer, and I like to see evidence. Where are the people in the know? Care to share a link?

You dont get it do you? Even if I accept the notion that a few more people are in the know, what about the 800k people that decide on buying it and dont have that information?

North America Pioneer is retarded. You would have to be a fool if you didnt realize the marketing is broken.

On a positive note, I will be buying a 9g. However, I fear the franchise is in serious financial question and I would like to see it continue.

Paul

First, the product has not yet been released, only preliminary info has been released, there is a difference. How often does the mass consumer audience know about a product that has better pre-release info than pioneer? Most do not know anything BEFORE the product actually hits brick and motor stores, unless it is a new type of product, such as an iphone, a wii, a ps3, but not merely an update to an already existing line of pdp's. Why does it matter if you have the info now or in late June? It doesn't Mr. Lawyer, you cannot have the product now, when you can have the product there will be more info concerning the product. Get it? This is not exactly the Erie Doctrine, but you probably never got that whole Rules of Enabling Act vs. Rules of Decisions Act dichotomy anyways, right?

Second, as an attorney you should not make an idiotic statement equating internet posts with knowledge of a product. You mentioned apple earlier, how many people have details of the 3g iphone? A lot, but many are employees of apple or one of its suppliers and are not online posting the info due to confidentiality agreements, you should know about those too, Mr. I Like to See Evidence.

Joke.

Ouch! Just feel off chair laughing.

Satuday, I saw a spoof of waiting for Godot with sock puppets as part of a one-act festival. :eek:

Greenland, are you jumping in this year or continuing to wait for more energy efficiency?

Energy comes first. Waiting to see the power usage rating on the 9G. I will not have my solar panels up and working until the fall, so I will probably hold out until next year. Samuel, being a grand auld Dubliner, would probably approve of my existential endurance.;)

Do any of the forum sponsors carry the Elite Line.

If any of the forum sponsors want to contact me I am interested in buying 2
Pro 151FD's. PM me details.

With all do respect I would do your research even in this thread has much info. I would like to keep this thread as much non sales related as possible and I am sure most will agree! :) We have to follow the rules and will not PM anyone unless contacted first.

9g product, all that can be said!There are more than 2 engineering models. The panels that Pioneer Europe demoed last month are not the ones that will be demo'ed in Cali....or the press demo last week.

Amazing. Go 'Cocks! (That's the SC Gamecocks to all of you from "off"). Come down sometime for a little shrimp-n-grits!:DI plan on taking a trip down there this summer. Need to go to the Market for some Bubba Gump :) I'm not making any promises right now, but if time permits, I'll be more than happy to calibrate your panel.

It would be a pleasure and an honor! A legend like youself is more than welcomed at my home! My pioneer elite especially would welcome your visit:)

As far as there being NO certified ISF calibraters in chuck town, well thats just depressing for a guy who would love his elite to unleash its full fury. And like I said before I'll live strictly on your settings before I have geek squad lay there unqualified hands on my Kuro.

Tell you what D-nice you bless my elite with your greatness and I'll officially drop Sony from my member name and change it all together to luvnothingbutKuro.:D

Im starting to wonder if we met already;)No need to change your name. If time permits when I come down, I'll be more than happy to calibrate your panel.

D-Nice,
I have decided to get the Pro-110fd as I am getting a phenomenal deal on it. I am getting it tommorow.
Can I use your "Reference Settings" for the first 200 hr. break-in period? Also, how come the color is boosted to +6 on the reference settings (shouldn't color normally be 0?)
Anyways, I am excited to get the tv. I am hoping your reference settings will give deep blacks and solid colors for both tv and blu-rays. Please get back to me. Thanks D-Nice.

Why do so many people live in South Carolina??? UMR, do you ever take a visit to cincinnati? Ever?Stop hating :D

South Carolina here as well :)

D-Nice,

I live in Atlanta; but just bought a mountain home at Cliffs Valley, north of Greenville. If you have Greenville dealer recommendations for Pioneer 9G or Signature, please PM me. If you play golf, I'll have you up as thanks from the many forum members and all your efforts.
I only know of Tweeter in that area. However, I'm sure there are some small local dealers up there. Go to Pioneer's website and enter a Geenville zipcode. That will show you the dealers in that area.

Golf? Sure :)

I only know of Tweeter in that area. However, I'm sure there are some small local dealers up there. Go to Pioneer's website and enter a Geenville zipcode. That will show you the dealers in that area.

Golf? Sure :)

The local Best Buy sales Kuro's at least the non-elite version.

Hey is the cliffs the one on Hwy 11 with the water fall out front?

Wow, never realized you were in Cola :)

John
Or as some call it...the "Metro" :)

Authorized Dealership? You cant be more disallusioned.

If Pioneer doesnt make a profit this year, I wouldnt be too vested about your authorized anything. Your "franchise" is on egg shells my boy. I wonder if they have projections about sales in 2008. The late June or July intro leaves very little time to get it right this year.

I am just weary of this secretive forum method of one man who is just an afficiando of the tech, and knows someone, somewhere, releasing a majority of the info about this product ( and 10g) when we are speaking of a multi billion dollar company. Its just ridiculous.

I dont want Apple, just Pioneer telling us what we can expect thats all.

Good Luck

PaulI don't get it.