Yes!!! # 8! I wonder which plasma does Phelps own? :p

Lezak, still the unsung hero in all of this. :(

Safe to say the review will not be available for another 24 hours?

slow proofer......patience

it's there

Thank you D-Nice for the review of the Elite 111.

I am thinking about purchasing the Elite 151. Is it reasonable to assume that the 151 would perform the same as the 111? Or is there something inherently different about the larger panel that might yield different results?

Also, you described the buzzing as negligible. Could you put it in terms like in the buzz poll?

Your efforts are greatly appreciated and are a tremendous help to those of us who are trying to decide which TV to get.

At this point I think I'm down to the 151 or 141. I'm very interested in seeing if Pioneer's claim to extra quality control on the Signature Series would solve some of the issues some are having, especially audible (or loud) buzzing at normal viewing distances. I might be worth a few more bucks for this assurance.

Thanks again!

Thank you D-Nice for the review of the Elite 111You're welcome :).

I am thinking about purchasing the Elite 151. Is it reasonable to assume that the 151 would perform the same as the 111?Identical except for size :)

Also, you described the buzzing as negligible. Could you put it in terms like in the buzz poll?It exists on the panel, but you have to be a few inches away to hear it.

slow proofer......patience

I take umbrage with that...:cool:

KDD

Nice Review D-nice. :) I would agree w/ what I've seen. I actually now own an Sony XBR960, and am surprised.. really at how far Plasma has come. This CRT destroys basically every flat panel I owned for movies that I have purchased. (I've seen my share sadly...)

BUT! The 110FD I remembered was SO comparable to this CRT, and I was so blown away w/ Ather's 151FD... that I honestly can safely say these Pioneer Kuros this year are the first flat panels that literally destroy even the best CRT on the consumer market.

Blacks that look inkier on a FLAT PANEL then a TUBE?!

Oh yes... its has happened.

Money doesn't allow me to purchase it yet, but I have a feeling Pioneer's Extreme Contrast is only going to be that more special. That's going to blow our minds. If anything... the Pioneer's are only gettin cheaper!

Here is my review of the 6020FD. Many thanks to Robert at Value Electronics for sending me an evaluation unit.


What happened to the 6020 review? The review for the 6020 has now been replaced by the 111 review.
:confused:

...
I have a feeling Pioneer's Extreme Contrast is only going to be that more special. That's going to blow our minds. If anything... the Pioneer's are only gettin cheaper!

I think you mean, less expensive :D

- Rich

I've tested 480I HDMI on the kuro and still seen jaggies-interlaced artifacts. Same thing with sony's. Never seen a tv outperform the player. Receivers i can not say. :)

What DVD player are you using? Can you point out some examples where you've seen jaggies? Maybe I can try them out on our setup.

I don't recall jaggies being a problem for a lot of Kuro owners. I haven't seen any jaggies from interlaced input (480i and 1080i) over HDMI from our Toshiba A30.

Our 6010 was calibrated with:

AV Selection = Movie Mode
Film Mode = Standard
All enhancements = OFF

Testing the new sony bdp-s350. For testing to see jaggies at 480i, it's hard to explain how to see it but it's the same idea of progressive scan removing the artifacts. 1080i is fine. 720p-1080i-p should be night and day over 480I and letting the display upconvert.

Any example scenes?

I've just checked the owner's thread and found these two posts.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14248470#post14248470

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14251351#post14251351

From these posts it seems the Sony may be based on the Panasonic which bobs 1080i providing less detail.

There's no Source Direct and I'm not sure about unaltered 480i over HDMI.

At least that's what the folks who are most interested in those features concluded in the area that I searched.

We watched "I Am Legend" on HD-DVD. I'll rent the SD version, and take a look after our vacation.I had a chance to watch "I Am Legend" today. At your suggestion, I checked the opening of Chapter II where there are abandoned cars and water where the street seems to be going underground. I used our Toshiba A30 outputting unaltered 480i, upscaled 1080i, and upscaled 1080p@24fps. I didn't see any jaggies with any of those settings.

Do you have any documentation showing that the Sony BDP-S350 is able to output unaltered 480i over HDMI?

Thank you D-Nice! I may just have to relegate my 6010 to the bedroom and pick up a 161.

What happened to the 6020 review? The review for the 6020 has now been replaced by the 111 review.
:confused:htwaits did it :D I've corrected the post.

htwaits did it :D I've corrected the post.Ha! You've got no proof. :p

htwaits did it :D I've corrected the post.

Thank you for both reviews. Very informative.

Very nice review D. After I read it I went over and gave my 151 a big hug.

Just an "olympic" interpretation of the Pioneer reviews.

Blu-Ray
gold 111FD
silver 6020FD
bronze 1150HD

SD-DVD
gold (tie) 111FD
gold (tie) 1150HD
bronze 6020FD

HD Cable
gold 1150HD
silver(tie) 111FD
silver(tie) 6020FD

SD Cable
gold(tie) 111FD
gold(tie) 1150HD
bronze 6020FD

Last year's Elite does (almost) as good or (almost) better than this year's Pioneers, except for Blu-ray?:confused:

OK, so this year's Pioneer is (probably) better, but for a penny-pinching HDTV shopper that won't be visiting BlockBuster Blu-ray aisle everyday ......:o

D, thanks for a great review of the 111FD. Kudos to Robert as well.

The 111FD was the panel I was going to get, but just before they came out, I picked up the 1150 "relic" at a great price and fell in love with it! (not quite on Chads level, but still :D )

This has nothing to do with your exceptional review and not to be picky, but since you capitalized the word, I will mention it fyi...

Page 6, under the "Contrast Ratio" heading, 3rd sentence... the capitalized word is UNDERSTANDING... I think you meant UNDERSTATING (I won't mention the missing "to" in the same sentence after "Due" ;))
Cheers.

I had a chance to watch "I Am Legend" today. At your suggestion, I checked the opening of Chapter II where there are abandoned cars and water where the street seems to be going underground. I used our Toshiba A30 outputting unaltered 480i, upscaled 1080i, and upscaled 1080p@24fps. I didn't see any jaggies with any of those settings.

Do you have any documentation showing that the Sony BDP-S350 is able to output unaltered 480i over HDMI?


Sorry you did not see no difference htwaits. It's very subtle but i think there is slightly more jaggies vs 480p. I don't know what you mean unaltered 480i, i know it outputs 480i. The upconversion for dvd is really good imo. Don't know if it will beat a oppo or toshiba but some claim it looks better than their oppo's.

D, thanks for a great review of the 111FD. Kudos to Robert as well.

The 111FD was the panel I was going to get, but just before they came out, I picked up the 1150 "relic" at a great price and fell in love with it! (not quite on Chads level, but still :D )

This has nothing to do with your exceptional review and not to be picky, but since you capitalized the word, I will mention it fyi...

Page 6, under the "Contrast Ratio" heading, 3rd sentence... the capitalized word is UNDERSTANDING... I think you meant UNDERSTATING (I won't mention the missing "to" in the same sentence after "Due" ;))
Cheers.

were you the guy I sent the 8g remote to a while back? I thought you had a 5080?

Nope, 1150 and your remote works just great with it. And the candle melt makes it almost a collectible! :D

Page 6, under the "Contrast Ratio" heading, 3rd sentence... the capitalized word is UNDERSTANDING... I think you meant UNDERSTATING (I won't mention the missing "to" in the same sentence after "Due" ;))
Cheers.Corrected and reposted :)

Corrected and reposted :)
Thanks!
On top of things, as usual. :)

I'm not sure if this has been addressed already or not, but can anyone comment on any possible resonance issues with their 9G? I've currently got a rather large (deep) 51inch Hitachi RPTV and I sometimes get some resonance when listening to music or movies at average volumes. I can even hear it resonating when I play my bass in the next room sometimes. (Granted, I'm playing through a 300 watt Ampeg SVT-VR tube amp and an 8X10 cab....and I usually only have the master volume at 3....but you get the idea.)

I've never taken the set apart, but I'm guessing it's almost like a big empty plywood box with some electronics inside, making it a prefect resonator. I've learned to live with it over the years and I'm expecting that my soon-to-arrive 151 won't have any such issues.

I don't know what you mean unaltered 480i, i know it outputs 480i.Based on what I've read here at AVS there is confirmation that the OPPO (480i models), the Toshiba HD-DVD players (except Toshiba A2 and A3), and now the Pioneer 51/05 Blu-ray players output 480i without any internal processing. I couldn't determine that the Sony Blu-ray player you were using will do the same thing. That's why I ask you if you had any confirmation. For instance, there might be some HDMI capable DVD players that deinterlace 480i to 480p, and then interlace the 480p signal back to 480i when it is requested. I've read of sillier processing that's done to allow using older chips. RCA did some very strange things with their first DLP RPTV models.

Of course we are only talking about HDMI outputs. Among Kuro owner's is a common belief that the Pioneer proprietary video processor is superior to most upscaling DVD players. In RPTV forums I know it's common for owners to compare their 480i output with upscaled output to see which device (player or display) is doing the best job.

I'm not an engineer, or someone who tests equipment, so I'm only stating what I understand from 8G and 9G 1080p Kuro threads. In my test with your suggested sample I couldn't see jaggies on a 60" screen at five feet.

I think you mean, less expensive :D

- Rich

Good call.

Based on what I've read here at AVS there is confirmation that the OPPO (480i models), the Toshiba HD-DVD players, and now the Pioneer 51/05 Blu-ray players output 480i without any internal processing. I couldn't determine that the Sony Blu-ray player you were using will do the same thing. That's why I ask you if you had any confirmation. For instance, there might be some HDMI capable DVD players that deinterlace 480i to 480p, and then interlace the 480p signal back to 480i when it is requested. I've read of sillier processing that's done to allow using older chips. RCA did some very strange things with their first DLP RPTV models.

Of course we are only talking about HDMI outputs. Among Kuro owner's is a common belief that the Pioneer proprietary video processor is superior to most upscaling DVD players. In RPTV forums I know it's common for owners to compare their 480i output with upscaled output to see which device (player or display) is doing the best job.

I'm not an engineer, or someone who tests equipment, so I'm only stating what I understand from 8G and 9G 1080p Kuro threads. In my test with your suggested sample I couldn't see jaggies on a 60" screen at five feet.You can scratch the Toshiba A2 and A3 from your list. Niether are capable of sending an unaltered 480i signal.

I don't see an option for 480i on the XA2 either unless I'm missing something

I don't see an option for 480i on the XA2 either unless I'm missing something
XA2 can't do 480i. Only the A2 and A3.

Would using another playing that is capable of 480i be favorable to using some like the XA2 on the NEs? Out of all the players I've got lying around I don't think one can pass 480i out of HDMI.

Would using another playing that is capable of 480i be favorable to using some like the XA2 on the NEs? Out of all the players I've got lying around I don't think one can pass 480i out of HDMI.
Just get the BDP-51 and be done with it :)

I don't see an option for 480i on the XA2 either unless I'm missing something

Why wouldn't you just use the 1080p output of the XA2? That's probably one of the top 5 SD-DVD players ever.

I'll have to look into that :) been looking for a Blu Ray player for my old HD CRT anyways. I'll be able to banish the PS3 from my HT, not that it doesn't work well.. it just leaves to be desired as an A/V component.

Why wouldn't you just use the 1080p output of the XA2? That's probably one of the top 5 SD-DVD players ever.

I've read here that sending 480i to the Kuro is a better option, just wanted to confirm if that was true with the non elites as well, and of course excuses for another video player don't hurt.

I've read here that sending 480i to the Kuro is a better option, just wanted to confirm if that was true with the non elites as well, and of course excuses for another video player don't hurt.

Sending 480i via HDMI is probably the best route vs. 99% of standard upscaling players out there. But, I think there are a handful that are practically perfect in video levels and deinterlacing where it would be virtually impossible to improve upon by sending 480i to the Pioneer.

Those would be, IMO:
Toshiba XA2
Samsung 1200 Blu-ray
Oppo 983H
Denon DVD-2930CI
Denon DVD-3930CI

Not to mention, when you are sending 480i over HDMI, you have to concern yourself with proper video levels (i.e. clipping black/white), and the performance of the MPEG decoder.

Also, if you send 480i to the Pioneers, you're going to have to use Full mode, which is going to overscan by 2%. May not be a big deal to some, but if you send 1080p from one of the above players (none of which crop pixels IIRC), then you are getting full 1080x1920 output and the Pioneer can be set to Dot-by-Dot.

I've read here that sending 480i to the Kuro is a better option, just wanted to confirm if that was true with the non elites as well, and of course excuses for another video player don't hurt.

Excellent advice from Sam S. If you have the Toshiba XA2 you have a fantastic standard dvd player (not to mention hd dvd) and should be in great shape letting it handle the upscaling and deinterlacing chores.

Excellent advice from Sam S. If you have the Toshiba XA2 you have a fantastic standard dvd player (not to mention hd dvd) and should be in great shape letting it handle the upscaling and deinterlacing chores.

How does one turn off/on the upscaling and deinterlacing on the Elites? THank you.

Just get the BDP-51 and be done with it :)

I don't know if you have direct experience with the BDP-51, but do you think the upscaling of the Pioneer blu-ray player would be equal to the Elite 111/151? And if so, do you gain anything by upconverting before sending (can you use dot-by-dot instead of full) in that case?

I'm trying to put together all of my got-to-haves. Since I have no blu-ray, I may as well get one that upconverts DVDs at the same time as I get the 111.

The sound system is a whole other issue that I'll need to take to that forum.

Thanks.

Initial reports on the 51 are that the upscaling is good, not great, so I would let the Kuro do it.

How does one turn off/on the upscaling and deinterlacing on the Elites? THank you.

By simply setting your DVD player (or other source) to output a 1080p signal to the Kuro you keep it from peforming upscale and deinterlace tasks.

You can scratch the Toshiba A2 and A3 from your list. Niether are capable of sending an unaltered 480i signal.Thanks for the information. I've changed my list.

Sending 480i via HDMI is probably the best route vs. 99% of standard upscaling players out there. But, I think there are a handful that are practically perfect in video levels and deinterlacing where it would be virtually impossible to improve upon by sending 480i to the Pioneer.

Those would be, IMO:
Toshiba XA2
Samsung 1200 Blu-ray
Oppo 983H
Denon DVD-2930CI
Denon DVD-3930CI

Not to mention, when you are sending 480i over HDMI, you have to concern yourself with proper video levels (i.e. clipping black/white), and the performance of the MPEG decoder.

Also, if you send 480i to the Pioneers, you're going to have to use Full mode, which is going to overscan by 2%. May not be a big deal to some, but if you send 1080p from one of the above players (none of which crop pixels IIRC), then you are getting full 1080x1920 output and the Pioneer can be set to Dot-by-Dot.We are doing something similar. When UMR calibrated our 6010, he used 1080i output from our Toshiba A30. We are getting very good SD results.

Just get the BDP-51 and be done with it :)That's next. :D

can you use dot-by-dot instead of fullThe 8G 1080p sets need a 1080i or 1080p input to make dot by dot available. I think that the 9G models are the same.

I don't understand people that don't buy BD players when they buy a new Kuro for thousands of dollars. It should be a prerequisite as that is why these sets were made. DVD will still look great, but you NEED bluray if you want to see the full glory of the Kuro.
BTW, I saw/played with the new BDP-51FD at BB the other day, and they are FANTASTIC. I would definately recommend this player (Or PS3:)) at time of purchase with your new Kuro.

I don't understand people that don't buy BD players when they buy a new Kuro for thousands of dollars. It should be a prerequisite as that is why these sets were made. DVD will still look great, but you NEED bluray if you want to see the full glory of the Kuro.
BTW, I saw/played with the new BDP-51FD at BB the other day, and they are FANTASTIC. I would definately recommend this player (Or PS3:)) at time of purchase with your new Kuro.

I couldn't agree more. and beyond that, for articulate people who post here and are totally conversant in HD and related subjects only to disclose that they have no appropriate audio system amazes me as much. For not too much more $$$ than the diff between Elite and non-Elite or 50" and 60" displays one could enter a new world of sound and improve the experience 100%. ???

The 8G 1080p sets need a 1080i or 1080p input to make dot by dot available. I think that the 9G models are the same.

And here I show the level of my ignorance...

If your player upscales a standard DVD, can it output the signal as 1080i/1080p and, therefore, use dot-by-dot when received by the Kuro?

But Trackman already has reported that while good, the BDP-51FD has been shown not to do as good a job as the 9G Elite and, therefore, you would still want to output at 480i via HDMI.

Has anyone tried 480i via component to the 111? If so, how'd it look?

If your player upscales a standard DVD, can it output the signal as 1080i/1080p and, therefore, use dot-by-dot when received by the Kuro? Yes. That's what we are doing using a Toshiba A30 HD-DVD player.

But Trackman already has reported that while good, the BDP-51FD has been shown not to do as good a job as the 9G Elite and, therefore, you would still want to output at 480i via HDMI.It's a choice you have to make for yourself and for the equipment that you are using. All dot by dot means is that you will see each and every pixel of the image on your screen -- no overscan and no extra scaling.

With an unaltered 480i output you can also use a video processor that might be better than the Kuro. In that case you can have the best SD images with a dot by dot display. Such processors start around $1,000 and up.

I don't do much A/B testing so I'm happy if I don't see something that irritates me. :o

If your player upscales a standard DVD, can it output the signal as 1080i/1080p and, therefore, use dot-by-dot when received by the Kuro?

Yes, and I do that when I want zero overscan. Outputting at 1080i (as opposed to 1080p) has the added benefit of allowing Pure Cinema Advance to show it at 72hz. When I don't care about zero overscan (for some DVDs, I want some overscan due to some garbage they put at the edges of the picture), I output at 480p.

But Trackman already has reported that while good, the BDP-51FD has been shown not to do as good a job as the 9G Elite and, therefore, you would still want to output at 480i via HDMI.

That may be true. I don't have a BDP-51FD, so I can't comment on its performance. I have an older HDMI Pioneer DVD player that does very well at deinterlacing to 480p, so I let the player deinterlace. (And yes, Pure Cinema Advance will do 72hz for both 480p and 480i signals too).

I hope this helps. It is a confusing world.

-R

The Oppo 983 might be the way to go. You get (probably) the best DVD deinterlacing and scaling for less than $2k, and you can output at 1080p for "Dot by Dot", so there is zero overscan with DVDs.

The Pioneers may have good scalers, but I would rather have everything done as close to the source as possible.

Nope, 1150 and your remote works just great with it. And the candle melt makes it almost a collectible! :D

Yea, Me and my 5080 were having a candlelit dinner and had an accident.

The Oppo 983 might be the way to go. You get (probably) the best DVD deinterlacing and scaling for less than $2k, and you can output at 1080p for "Dot by Dot", so there is zero overscan with DVDs.

The Pioneers may have good scalers, but I would rather have everything done as close to the source as possible.

I'm using the Oppo 983H with my 151FD. Should have them both hooked up and running tomorrow.

Yea, Me and my 5080 were having a candlelit dinner and had an accident.
Just remember that any open "ports" on that set is for electronics ONLY.

Is the Oppo really that much better than something like say, the PS3? Am I really going to notice any difference? At what point are there diminishing returns?

I noticed that the 6020 only uses colorspace 1, but the 9g elites have the option
of colorspace 1 or 2. I believe with movies you would probably want to use
CS2 because it can create more realistic color rendering, but what about Video
Games? Would CS1 be a better match for High def video games, which have a less-than
relatistic look?

Just remember that any open "ports" on that set is for electronics ONLY.

The way some people talk about these TV's... I don't know. :eek:

A_C

The way some people talk about these TV's... I don't know. :eek:

A_C


Too much information... :eek:

Sending 480i via HDMI is probably the best route vs. 99% of standard upscaling players out there. But, I think there are a handful that are practically perfect in video levels and deinterlacing where it would be virtually impossible to improve upon by sending 480i to the Pioneer.

Those would be, IMO:
Toshiba XA2
Samsung 1200 Blu-ray
Oppo 983H
Denon DVD-2930CI
Denon DVD-3930CI

Not to mention, when you are sending 480i over HDMI, you have to concern yourself with proper video levels (i.e. clipping black/white), and the performance of the MPEG decoder.

Also, if you send 480i to the Pioneers, you're going to have to use Full mode, which is going to overscan by 2%. May not be a big deal to some, but if you send 1080p from one of the above players (none of which crop pixels IIRC), then you are getting full 1080x1920 output and the Pioneer can be set to Dot-by-Dot.

I would add the Samsung BD-UP5000 dual-format player to your list. It also uses the Reon processor to great effect.

pricing/ where to buy posts are not allowed...and some of you guys should know better.....

sorry guys my mistake will not happen again.where can i find a list of all pert. sponsors?

sorry guys my mistake will not happen again.where can i find a list of all pert. sponsors?There are links at the bottom of every page, and ads at the top of each page. For sponsers that sell displays, I would call and indicate that you are from AVS.

Based on what I've read here at AVS there is confirmation that the OPPO (480i models), the Toshiba HD-DVD players (except Toshiba A2 and A3), and now the Pioneer 51/05 Blu-ray players output 480i without any internal processing. I couldn't determine that the Sony Blu-ray player you were using will do the same thing. That's why I ask you if you had any confirmation. For instance, there might be some HDMI capable DVD players that deinterlace 480i to 480p, and then interlace the 480p signal back to 480i when it is requested. I've read of sillier processing that's done to allow using older chips. RCA did some very strange things with their first DLP RPTV models.

Of course we are only talking about HDMI outputs. Among Kuro owner's is a common belief that the Pioneer proprietary video processor is superior to most upscaling DVD players. In RPTV forums I know it's common for owners to compare their 480i output with upscaled output to see which device (player or display) is doing the best job.

I'm not an engineer, or someone who tests equipment, so I'm only stating what I understand from 8G and 9G 1080p Kuro threads. In my test with your suggested sample I couldn't see jaggies on a 60" screen at five feet.


Do you have Star Wars dvd's? Try empire strikes back or revenge sith. Pay attention to the begining where the yellow text scrolls. 480i should look noticeably unsmooth (jaggies) like the sharpness is up all the way.

Thanks to Tropical Storm Fay, I got to spend some time inside watching my 6020. It is Awesome (the TV, not the storm). I would like to thank all the forum members for the information provided in these posts.

I know people lurk the forum and wonder if the internet is a safe place to buy high dollar items. I wondered the same thing, and thanks to this forum, I purchased my 6020 from Value Electronics. I also purchased a 94TXH, a BDP 51FD, and a Direct TV system with 4 receivers. I saved a ton, the process was painless, and I would not hesitate to order again from Value Electronics (I anticipate some Christmas purchases from Robert).

The true measure of customer service is when things go wrong. The first 6020 was cracked, so Robert had another one shipped the same day. The second one arrived in a couple days and is flawless. In addition, it appears Pioneer hosed Robert on his shipment of Blu Ray players. Normally you don't hear from a business when things are delayed. I just received an unsolicited email from Robert, offering a refund or several gifts if I remain on the wait list. I was going to stay on the list regardless, so this is an appreciated bonus.

Anyway, just wanted to say Value Electronics has great prices and great customer service. Most of my future electronics purchases will be made from them. Hope this helps anyone wondering if it is safe to buy online.

I sure am glad the storm didnt blow off my new Direct TV satellite dish.

quote from gator12-
"it appears Pioneer hosed Robert on his shipment of Blu Ray players. Normally you don't hear from a business when things are delayed. I just received an unsolicited email from Robert, offering a refund or several gifts if I remain on the wait list. I was going to stay on the list regardless, so this is an appreciated bonus"



Hi gator12,
I received a nice offer of a gift as well and it came AFTER I had already committed to hanging with V.E. till the BDP 51's come in.
And the thing that kills me about the "hosing" is that there has been one voice and one voice only here on AVS extolling the virtues of the BDP 51 and the one voice has been Robert's. It was his strong recommendation here that caused me to change my mind about a competing product and order the BDP 51 from V.E.
Shame on Pioneer for not priortizing V.E. with the debut of this product.-bird

I noticed that the 6020 only uses colorspace 1, but the 9g elites have the option
of colorspace 1 or 2. I believe with movies you would probably want to use
CS2 because it can create more realistic color rendering, but what about Video
Games? Would CS1 be a better match for High def video games, which have a less-than
relatistic look?

Hey gator12, congrats on your new Pio gear, and look forward to your owner's opinions & experiences. Yeah, I've been hunkered down all day too, and that damn Fay Storm has stalled right over us here in Cocoa Beach. It ain't over yet, that's for sure. Watching a lot of the Olympics!

it appears Pioneer hosed Robert on his shipment of Blu Ray players. Normally you don't hear from a business when things are delayed. I just received an unsolicited email from Robert, offering a refund or several gifts if I remain on the wait list. I was going to stay on the list regardless, so this is an appreciated bonus



Hi gator12,
I received a nice offer of a gift as well and it came AFTER I had already committed to hanging with V.E. till the BDP 51's come in.
And the thing that kills me about the "hosing" by Pioneer is that there has been one voice and one voice only here on AVS extolling the virtues of the BDP 51 and the one voice has been Robert's. It was his strong recommendation here that caused me to change my mind about a competing product and order the BDP 51 from V.E.
Shame on Pioneer for not priortizing V.E. with the debut of this product.-bird

Robert has proven time and time again that he will go the extra mile for you, a real class act!

I would call and indicate that you are from AVS.

Very good idea!
In terms of Blu Rays for everyone its been bad since last year.

In terms of Blu Rays for everyone its been bad since last year.
Any idea why?

From D-Nice's Pro-111 review:

"The Bat Mobile chase through crime-plagued Gotham caused me to randomly call out biblical entities."

Funniest thing I've read in a while! ;)

Any idea why?

It all started out because they got so popular after they won the war, hope it gets better.

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a manufacturer code, namely, Kaon Media code, code of my set-top-box HD Receiver. Simply, to teach LX-5090 remote to operate that receiver. Here, in Poland, the only distributor and support centre for people like myself did not bother to answer my emails. At the same time Kaon Media in Germany told me to go to Pio support. This way I'm in the middle of nowhere, sort of. Maybe someone at this thread uses Kaon Media (Korea) receiver, already, or maybe someone from Pio side knows the proper code for that specific manufacturer to enter to LX-5090 remote ...?

Thanks in advance

surething
LX-5090 (european sort of equivalent for Pro-111FD)

Hi guys its been quite a while since i'v last posted here wow thanks for your review D-nice! i must add normally i dont read 10 pages on pdf but your review sure was quick!

Theirs 2 questions i too would like answerd from anyone

one is in regards to use CS1 best for gaming? since it pushes the colors more out? (over satured) and CS2 bset for movies? (realistic)

and is the oppo better (noticeably?) compared to the ps3?

i got the ps3 (explains most of my time not being here:D) with MGS4 and after i poped American gangster on my xbox 360 i was botherd with my xbox 360 noise (and this is an elite people) i went to my ps3

boy was it quiet as far as quality between both i feel the ps3 really is great!!! which is why i could not imagen a oppo being better? and also i think the audio from the movie was better on the ps3 vs the xbox 360. i do not thank it has to do with the fan, you hear everything louder better from the diologue to the shooting.

both the ps3 and the xbox 360 are running in koo aid monster hdmi and digital optical toslink cable, was only watching on tv speakers (was 1 am)

Excellent movie HIGHLY recommended.

sorry my ps3 vs xbox 360 playback sounds more like a dvd player comparison insted of Pioneer related :D

PLEASE do not get the ps3 vs xbox 360 this is just based on my personal opinon.


Is the Oppo really that much better than something like say, the PS3? Am I really going to notice any difference? At what point are there diminishing returns?

Hey D-NICE, when watching the 6020 or elite 111fd, can you distinguish the black screen from the bezel?(when displaying a black screen?)

I'm not D-NICE but I can definitely see the bezel from the black bars although they are almost totally indistinguishable.

Hey D-NICE, when watching the 6020 or elite 111fd, can you distinguish the black screen from the bezel?(when displaying a black screen?)In a pitch black room, yes

so can anyone answer my question in regards to cs1 and cs2? is the thought correctly? cs1 creates a fluid like for gaming or cartoons persay? and cs2 is for more realistic with more shadow detail?

In a pitch black room, yes

by how much?

oh wow lazy boy D-nice just gave you an answer now you asking how much?

well numbers wise the lowest i'v seen hit is 0.00066 MIL

what is it that you trying to find? to see if its already black enough?

just wondering :p

by how much?

oh wow lazy boy D-nice just gave you an answer now you asking how much?

well numbers wise the lowest i'v seen hit is 0.00066 MIL

what is it that you trying to find? to see if its already black enough?

just wondering :p

:D i always thought that the 9gs have bezel blacks, but then D-nice said that they are distinguishable, so i just wanna know by how much, that's all.:p

I have strange bug on the 5090H.

Sometimes the aspect gets screwed somehow. It seams that something in the incoming signal triggers the bug. It only occurs when watching DVB broadcast and the picture is stretched horisontally and moved sideways when it happens.

Changing aspect does not remedy anything and the only solution so far is to go into EPG and out again. Then the aspect and picture returns to normal.
In a months time it has happened 4 times.

:D i always thought that the 9gs have bezel blacks, but then D-nice said that they are distinguishable, so i just wanna know by how much, that's all.:p


Even if the panel can produce 100% black, you will still see the difference between the bezel and the screen since they are of different reflectivity levels. So the light from the screen itself will reflect on the bezel a bit.

Hi all....Im new to this thread. Just exchanged my hitachi p60x901 (directors series) to the 151. WHOA....what a destruction....the pioneer is UNREAL. Just got it set up right out of box and am blown away. Havent set the color sensor yet and was curious if it offered any significant improvement in picture quality in different lighting environments. I do have a tv room that gets VERY VERY bright during the day (so those 10am football games can get hairy). Any advice on this??? Also a question to any of those real TV guys/gals out there.....any good advice on which calibration DVD is recommended or a link to some good calibration settings for my new 151. I am currently stoked by the way.........

Hi all....Im new to this thread. Just exchanged my hitachi p60x901 (directors series) to the 151. WHOA....what a destruction....the pioneer is UNREAL. Just got it set up right out of box and am blown away. Havent set the color sensor yet and was curious if it offered any significant improvement in picture quality in different lighting environments. I do have a tv room that gets VERY VERY bright during the day (so those 10am football games can get hairy). Any advice on this??? Also a question to any of those real TV guys/gals out there.....any good advice on which calibration DVD is recommended or a link to some good calibration settings for my new 151. I am currently stoked by the way.........

Congrats! A very good start is the first page here provided by Mr. Nice
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1053444

hey guys, some people in the forums are saying that the whites of the Kuros have a pinkish tint. Now i know i've asked many questions about brightness, but this one is about tint. Has anyone noticed this pink tint?

hey guys, some people in the forums are saying that the whites of the Kuros have a pinkish tint. Now i know i've asked many questions about brightness, but this one is about tint. Has anyone noticed this pink tint?

On my 151FD, whites are white. They are not pinkish, grayish, yellowish or bluish.

hey guys, how is DVD upscaling on the 5020? Should I get an OPPO to upscale instead of the Kuro.

hey guys, how is DVD upscaling on the 5020? Should I get an OPPO to upscale instead of the Kuro.Which OPPO?

Many Kuro owners use the OPPO 980 because it outputs unaltered 480i over HDMI. At $169 it's the cheapest OPPO.

The best OPPO, for those that want to convert the SD DVD signal in their DVD player, is the 983 which has a MSRP of $399.

Hi everyone

Im new to this forum but I have bought a PDP-LX6090H as it is called in Denmark, I haven't run the break-in but what settings should I use, from what I can see you dont have the same model numbers?

Hi everyone

Im new to this forum but I have bought a PDP-LX6090H as it is called in Denmark, I haven't run the break-in but what settings should I use, from what I can see you dont have the same model numbers?

Check the settings on the first page of this thread, that is where you should start.

I am going to get a 6020 from Amazon next week. Does the 6020 come with a stand
attached to the panel in the box, so I can stand it on the ground as soon as it is unpacked? I have white glove delivery so I would like to test it out before signing.
Or do I have to first build the stand and screw it on the Panel in order to stand the
panel up-right after unpacking it???

I thought white glove delivery included them "installing it", meaning at least having it plugged where you want?

The 6020 comes from its shipping container with its stand and speakers detached. The White Glove delivery guys should attach the speakers, mount the TV on its stand, and insure that if displays an image when it is turned on. At least the local White Glove delivery guys did that for me when my 6020 arrived from Amazon.

The 6020 comes from its shipping container with its stand and speakers detached. The White Glove delivery guys should attach the speakers, mount the TV on its stand, and insure that if displays an image when it is turned on. At least the local White Glove delivery guys did that for me when my 6020 arrived from Amazon.


I just took White Glove delivery of a 6020 from Amazon thru Ceva Logistics. A very nice father and son team showed up, long on enthusiasm and short on Pioneer set up knowledge. I knew I was in trouble when one of them said "I ain't never seen a Panasonic like this." They struggled with the speaker and stand and couldn't get it to turn on initially. I found the manual and started digging out info as they installed.

I have no complaints about the service and would use it again, but I do recommend downloading a PDF copy of the manual and printing out installation pages concerning the stand and speaker ahead of time so they can quickly refer to it. And also, suggest that they assemble the included stand on the floor, attach the TV to it with the stand still on the floor. Now attach the speaker. Last, lift the whole unit onto the cabinet.

ALSO: There is an master on/off button on the bottom right, looking at the panel from the back, that must be turned on before the plasma will turn on.

And also, suggest that they first attach the speaker to the TV, then assemble the stand on the floor, attach the TV to it, and then lift it all in one piece to the stand.



On the 6070, you put the speaker on last. That way you don't crush it while lifting it onto the stand. A 50" model may be different.

I had a similar experience with Ceva from Amazon. They were very nice and were willing to do the full setup and everything down in the basement. I'm very ocd at times and just wanted to do it all myself, so I had them plug it in while sitting in the base of the box and it was fine. I would definitely buy from a company that ships with Ceva again.

The OKC White Glove delivery guys weren't terribly knowledgeable about setup, either. Nevertheless, they were willing workers and got the job done, although they and I nearly had heart failure before I found the master power switch on the back of the TV.

Great, thanks for sharing your information in the above previous messages about
what exactly occurs during white glove delivery.

On the 6070, you put the speaker on last. That way you don't crush it while lifting it onto the stand. A 50" model may be different.

Good point. I edited my earlier post to reflect this change in assembly.

hey guys, how is DVD upscaling on the 5020? Should I get an OPPO to upscale instead of the Kuro.

I have an Oppo 981H connected to my 6020 and I let the Oppo do the upconversion to 1080p over hdmi. The Oppo 981H has the Faroudja chip which I think makes it a superb upscaling player; however, it costs a bit more than the 980. I think on a 60" plasma it's worth the extra to get the 981H. For a 50" tv, I think the 980 is fine (I have a a42" 720p Panny plasma in the bedroom with a Oppo 980 connected to it - I also let the Oppo do the scaling on that setup).

I splurged a bit and got both and the Oppo 981 and a Sony S350 blu ray player when I bought my Pioneer 6020 about a month ago. I really like how the features on the Oppo players.

I splurged a bit and got both and the Oppo 981 and a Sony S350 blu ray player when I bought my Pioneer 6020 about a month ago. I really like how the features on the Oppo players.


Thats a nice combo. Do you think the oppo upscales better?

Thats a nice combo. Do you think the oppo upscales better?

I also have the Oppo 981 and Sony S350 connected to a 6020. I would say the up-scaling is similar from both of these players when used with the 6020.... I'm happy them both. However, I think the colour is better with the S350. I find the Oppo tends to give a bit of green push.

If you don't already own the Oppo, I would pass on buying one and just go with the S350. IMO, it's not worth the cost of buying both and the Oppo can not do blu-ray of course.

YMMV

sorry for waking up this old thread but Hey guys i know this is off topic but i would like to know if anyone has purchased a 5020 or a 6020 or a pioneer recently off costco, i was just given the green light to purchase a 5020 for one of my room.

reason of me asking is because it has 2 delivery options, threshold and white glove, except both are same cost to me.

is white glove just the delivery guys getting doing the work Or is it also faster shipping?'

im going to get an elite pro-111 later this year but for now a PDP-5020 will do

ps : i posted this on the non elite thread

im going to get an elite pro-111 later this year but for now a PDP-5020 will do

ps : i posted this on the non elite thread

:confused: Why don't you just go elite right away? Are you planning on getting both or selling the NE?

i plan to have both, the 5020 for our " not so important daily use" and out 111for that ht situation.

another reason why is because costco doesnt sell the 111 right now and that means a bigger pricer regardless of onlinesponers or local mom&pop stores or Bestbuy.

and i perfer to deal with local stores (costco bb) rather then online due to the quick exchange and limitless exchanges for whatever reason.

i can also return the 5020 within 3 months and get 1 extra year.

btw whats NE?



:confused: Why don't you just go elite right away? Are you planning on getting both or selling the NE?

btw whats NE?Non-Elite.

HELLLLPPPPPP!!!!

I got my 6020 today and set up the panel with the stand.
I plugged the power cable in and there is a red light that i can see that is on in the middle
of the back side.

When I try to turn it on --- NOTHING happens. I tried the remote and the manual
stand by switch on the left side. I don't see a blue or red light on the front side at all.
HELLPPPP!!!!!

HELLLLPPPPPP!!!!

I got my 6020 today and set up the panel with the stand.
I plugged the power cable in and there is a red light that i can see that is on in the middle
of the back side.

When I try to turn it on --- NOTHING happens. I tried the remote and the manual
stand by switch on the left side. I don't see a blue or red light on the front side at all.
HELLPPPP!!!!!

Try this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14560864#post14560864

He said he tried that...

He said he tried that...

I guess I am used to answering it that way. Ok unplug for a while and plug back in and try again, after that does not work, call for support and have it exchanged.

I tried the remote and the manual stand by switch on the left side.Is this stand by switch on the front, end or back of the left corner (facing the TV) of your display.

If what you've called the stand by switch isn't on the back then Roman's link will will solve your problem. If it is on the back of the display, then try pressing it again. You may have pressed it twice in your excitment.

By the way, the switch on the back is NOT a stand by switch.

If none of that works try Roman's second suggestion. :p

ThANK YOUOUOUOU!!!

I will name my first child after you.

I LOVE my 6020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ThANK YOUOUOUOU!!!

I will name my first child after you.

I LOVE my 6020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thank you, and I'm honered, but I think Roman is a better choice. :D

ThANK YOUOUOUOU!!!

I will name my first child after you.

I LOVE my 6020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what a cruel parent! ;) :p

thank you, and i'n honered, but i think roman is a better choice. :d

lol :)

If I have a boy:
Roman 6020FD Dominguez

what a cruel parent! ;) :pOK, so I've aged a bit, and my wife doesn't understand the deep meaning behind my AVS user name, and I think Roman would be a better choice, but it wouldn't be cruel if the kid has the right AVS genetic building blocks. :mad:;)

what is the width of the bezel surrounding the 5020 plasma panel itself...is it 2" or less?
trying to find out so if i set a yamaha 4000 sound bar in front of it if it will it block any of the screen. the sound bar is 7 5/8" tall
thanks, alan

Hi will the price of the 5020 drop a little more come Jan 09'?

maybe less than $3k?

Hi will the price of the 5020 drop a little more come Jan 09'?

maybe less than $3k?

Yes and yes.

what is the width of the bezel surrounding the 5020 plasma panel itself...is it 2" or less?
trying to find out so if i set a yamaha 4000 sound bar in front of it if it will it block any of the screen. the sound bar is 7 5/8" tall
thanks, alan

Hi Alan,

Were you able to find out answer for question on Yamaha YSP 4000 & pioneer 5020 ? I am trying to do the same set up.

Hi Alan,

Were you able to find out answer for question on Yamaha YSP 4000 & pioneer 5020 ? I am trying to do the same set up.
Velaga - since we're outa stock presently (we're doing this for a client), i went to BB and measured a 5010 (they had no 9g models in stock) and the bottom bezel measures 1 7/8" between the top of the Pioneer speaker bar and the bottom of the plasma panel itself.
I am figuring the 5020 may be a little thinner, but not by much ( i hope ) because...
the overall ht of the 5020 (as per Pioneer's website) is 34 1/8 tall with the stand. Without the stand it is 28 15/32 tall. Subtract that and u get 5 5/8 from the bottom of the stand to the bottom of the bezel. Add the 1 7/8 for the bezel and u get 7 5/8, which is the exact height of the Yamaha 4000 projector.
Thereoretically, the Pioneer will NOT have to be raised up in order for the viewing portion to 'clear' the sound projector.
Check the math...whew!
alan in cc,tx

im a little skeptical on pioneers decision to swipe gray scale and advanced color control out of the 9g's. does anyone know if they will be back in the 10g models? what other advancements are coming with the 10g's?

whityfrd are you trying to say that you are scared of the 9g NON elite short coming of the reduced picture settings?

picture settings are mostly removed on NON elite 5020/6020

the Elite is not modified.

and you will have a better picture then anything else out there despite the shortcoming.

if you can budge for more then the elite is worth it.

let me/us know if you this answers your question and if you have any more.


im a little skeptical on pioneers decision to swipe gray scale and advanced color control out of the 9g's. does anyone know if they will be back in the 10g models? what other advancements are coming with the 10g's?

This is the main reason why I am going through my AVR for all devices capable of HD audio like the new pio blu ray player.

I might still consider going directly from my DVR to the TV, though, because the best audio that my DVR does is Dolby Digital Plus. In that case, I could still use the toslink from the TV to the AVR.

So this means I can connect my Scientific Atlanta 4250HD box directly to the 151fd and run a digital audio cable to the AVR since HDTV broadcast audio in Dobly Digital 5.1.

So this means I can connect my Scientific Atlanta 4250HD box directly to the 151fd and run a digital audio cable to the AVR since HDTV broadcast audio in Dobly Digital 5.1.

exactly what i do. better picture results as well imho.

Hi will the price of the 5020 drop a little more come Jan 09'?

maybe less than $3k?

It's at that price point NOW at a very popular on-line book vendor.

Price drop for PDP-5020 and PRO-111 (not msrp) check your dealer for more info

There is a link at the top of AVS for plasmatv4less they have really cheap prices on these sets. Doing a google search didn't come up with anything on reviews for the site and resellerratings didnt list them. I only found a small handful of posts from members here saying they bought from them. Are their prices too good to be true?

I would suggest going with a forum member sponser thare are known and repuable like Roman o robert @ ve alex@invision and so on.

as far as that company im all out of ideals but are you going for a non elite or elite ?

I'm probably going to wait for a 10G to come out before I purchase, but I'm searching for vendors now so I can have a few lined up when they come out and considering the prices there were so cheap, just wanted to see if they are legit. I have a friend who I'm trying to talk into the 5020, so I was just browsing for prices now.

Keep in mind this is the last year pioneer wil do 100% in house production meaning that it wont be 100% pioneer parts, panasonic wil be outsourcing the glass/panel and according to pioneer specs' although many of us have speculations of something being wrong or the first year of a hybrid with diffrent issues and so fourth.

Also its the last year "elite" will be made in case for aesthetic appearance and that "status" of elite :D

also many like me want the last tv made by pioneer 100% parts, and last by not least, the 10g if i remember correctly has to be in a pitch black in order to maybe see the difference.

and keep in mind if you wait for it its going to be a long wait (late 09 to early 2010)

also if its not a step up in quality it will be too late to get a 9g by then so i wouldnt take a chance, If however you have this year pioneer and decide to get next year's then just upgrade.

last but not least the PRO-111 50" elite 1080p and PDP-5020 50" 1080p non elite are currently on sale with our repuable forum sponsers its not a price cut from msrp

I'm probably going to wait for a 10G to come out before I purchase, but I'm searching for vendors now so I can have a few lined up when they come out and considering the prices there were so cheap, just wanted to see if they are legit.

Well, I have to wait until April anyways as that is when the money for a new set will be available for me. I have a CD that I put in as soon as I got back from overseas with the military a couple years back and it matures then. Planned on purchasing at that time or later. Was really hoping that maybe they decide to do a 65" panel as well. Currently have a 60" CRT RPTV 4:3 and hate losing that tall of a picture.

I'm probably going to wait for a 10G to come out before I purchase, but I'm searching for vendors now so I can have a few lined up when they come out and considering the prices there were so cheap, just wanted to see if they are legit. I have a friend who I'm trying to talk into the 5020, so I was just browsing for prices now.

Nothing wrong with waiting either.
It's certainly possible that the 10G could be better than the 9G and maybe even correct a few (minor) shortcomings of 9G.

It's also possible that by the time the 10g is ready you will also have the option of buying a 9G on closeout prices if you'd prefer just as arrival of 9G's produced some good prices on 8G models.

Nothing wrong with waiting either.
It's certainly possible that the 10G could be better than the 9G and maybe even correct a few (minor) shortcomings of 9G.

It's also possible that by the time the 10g is ready you will also have the option of buying a 9G on closeout prices if you'd prefer just as arrival of 9G's produced some good prices on 8G models.

Not sure that strategy works. I mean I hear of it happening but it seems to be the exception and not the rule. Next generation panels are generally cheaper than the ones before. My local BB is still trying to unload 6010's. And at prices higher then what the 6020's go for on-line. They must be counting on those who will only make such an investment at a B&M.

and to take that risk of not being able to get the only elite series made (10g later no more elite) or the risk that something with the 10g is not inproved or worse (better blacks are obviously not going to be that issue) but rather something else ~ big risk

I'm just hoping that with the 10Gs I am able to get absolute black in all environments with ECC. I want the set to be on in the dark and not be able to tell it at all. I just feel like I'm so close to perfection in that sense and don't want to miss it by a year because TV upgrades are generally ever 3-5 years at my current income. Next upgrade after that will presumably be OLED or some other new display.

Also hoping for a 65" set from Pio since they are partnering up with Panny, I love my 60" set, but already wish it was a little bigger and my only other option is to go DLP and the black levels just aren't at Pio's levels and probably never will be....I was hoping the Laservue would change that, but I haven't heard the statement made that they rival or even equal Pioneer blacks. Just have to wait and see what time brings I suppose.

like I said its always worth going to a 9g and if you decide to get the 10g move the 9g to a room or sell it, but if you wait and 10g is here you won't be able to get 9g.

For me it wasn't worth the risk because the 10g improvement is only noticeable in pitch black (d-nice or someone else correct me if im wrong) otherwise PQ wil be slightly better.

So I received my Pioneer Elite PRO-111 today :D

and laservue not only isnt to pioneer level its also more expensive, at 7k for 65"

Well I'm only going to be able to purchase a new TV every 3-5 years so moving the 9g to another room if 10g is alot better isn't a option. I just have to weigh my options to see what is best. Since the end of the year is almost here and possible Black Friday sales and also CES coming soon, I think it's best for me to see what new tech is coming out, especially since I would have to put it on a CC or something since I won't have the cash available until April.

honest opinions, thank you

Is that really true, that the Elite line is going away with the 10gs?

Is that really true, that the Elite line is going away with the 10gs?

i woudlnt be surprised. they currently have the non-elite, elite, and elite signature. with the general population flocking toward lcd's, very likely a line or two of plasmas is going to get cut.

Not sure that strategy works. I mean I hear of it happening but it seems to be the exception and not the rule. Next generation panels are generally cheaper than the ones before. My local BB is still trying to unload 6010's. And at prices higher then what the 6020's go for on-line. They must be counting on those who will only make such an investment at a B&M.

Well if that's the case then you can simply go with the newer model and probably get better performance on top of the lower price.

I was interested in 60" Kuro less than a year ago and ended up buying a 70" LCOS for a super low price because I though the bang for buck difference didn't make sense and prices might drop.

Less than a year later I get a 60" Kuro non-elite that is by many accounts better than the previous years elite but for literally thousands of dollars less.:) On top of that I still have a great LCOS with both sets costing less than ONE 8g Elite. :eek: If the 9G Elite's don't drop but the 10g (or some other high quality plasma) is cheaper with a better black level then either way the wait would have paid off.

Of course at some point you're simply ready to buy and start enjoying.

A lot depends on what happens to prices but right now they continue to trend downward.

Hi

First post in this forum. Just purchased the 60 inch, and having read several pages of discussion, I see numerous references to the "break in period".

The TV has yet to be delivered, but reading through the online manual from the Pioneer site I don't see references to a recommended break-in period, or maybe I just missed it.

There is talk in the manual (page 52) about extending the panels life using the orbiter, and other settings, but I don't see a time period associated with this.

Any help or suggestions appreciated

Hi

First post in this forum. Just purchased the 60 inch, and having read several pages of discussion, I see numerous references to the "break in period".

The TV has yet to be delivered, but reading through the online manual from the Pioneer site I don't see references to a recommended break-in period, or maybe I just missed it.

There is talk in the manual (page 52) about extending the panels life using the orbiter, and other settings, but I don't see a time period associated with this.

Any help or suggestions appreciated

See this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14191456&postcount=6451) post for your answers.

Is that really true, that the Elite line is going away with the 10gs?

I hope not :) Where did you see that info?

seems he got it from gus posting........


and to take that risk of not being able to get the only elite series made (10g later no more elite) or the risk that something with the 10g is not inproved or worse (better blacks are obviously not going to be that issue) but rather something else ~ big risk

seems he got it from gus posting........

I think he was talking about the glass being made by Panasonic.

Hi

First post in this forum. Just purchased the 60 inch, and having read several pages of discussion, I see numerous references to the "break in period".

The TV has yet to be delivered, but reading through the online manual from the Pioneer site I don't see references to a recommended break-in period, or maybe I just missed it.

There is talk in the manual (page 52) about extending the panels life using the orbiter, and other settings, but I don't see a time period associated with this.

Any help or suggestions appreciated
Many 9G Kuro owners, including me, have decided not to do a break in. I have been moderately careful to avoid leaving a single image in place for a very long time on my 6020 but haven't taken any other special steps. Note, however, I use Movie mode almost all the time and usually avoid the brighter settings. After nearly 2 months I have never seen a hint of either image retention or burn in.

Well I'm only going to be able to purchase a new TV every 3-5 years so moving the 9g to another room if 10g is alot better isn't a option. I just have to weigh my options to see what is best. Since the end of the year is almost here and possible Black Friday sales and also CES coming soon, I think it's best for me to see what new tech is coming out, especially since I would have to put it on a CC or something since I won't have the cash available until April.
You can buy a TV every 3 to 5 years? Wow, wish I could do that. Not because I want a new TV that often (certainly not after buying a 111 and all the ancillaries that go with the purchase), but to have the money. That would mean there are other things I could do.

You can buy a TV every 3 to 5 years? Wow, wish I could do that. Not because I want a new TV that often (certainly not after buying a 111 and all the ancillaries that go with the purchase), but to have the money. That would mean there are other things I could do.

What exactly are your "ancillaries"? :)

Keep in mind this is the last year pioneer wil do 100% in house production meaning that it wont be 100% pioneer parts, panasonic wil be outsourcing the glass/panel and according to pioneer specs' although many of us have speculations of something being wrong or the first year of a hybrid with diffrent issues and so fourth.

Also its the last year "elite" will be made in case for aesthetic appearance and that "status" of elite :D

also many like me want the last tv made by pioneer 100% parts, and last by not least, the 10g if i remember correctly has to be in a pitch black in order to maybe see the difference.

and keep in mind if you wait for it its going to be a long wait (late 09 to early 2010)

also if its not a step up in quality it will be too late to get a 9g by then so i wouldnt take a chance, If however you have this year pioneer and decide to get next year's then just upgrade.

last but not least the PRO-111 50" elite 1080p and PDP-5020 50" 1080p non elite are currently on sale with our repuable forum sponsers its not a price cut from msrp

The tech is moving so rapidly, that I find it hard to believe that the 10G won't blow the 9G out of the water. (even with Panny glass)

If 500 of VW employees are building engines (designed exclusively by VW) in Chrysler's manufacturing plant using their tools together with some of their employees (to VW standards and contractually won't allow any access of the technology to Chrysler), does it mean VW is buying the engine from Chrysler?

What exactly are your "ancillaries"? :)

All the other things I'm buying as a result of having bought the TV, such as a new stand, cables, probably a calibration, a processor/switcher, etc.

All the other things I'm buying as a result of having bought the TV, such as a new stand, cables, probably a calibration, a processor/switcher, etc.

well, you need a stand and cables even if you buy a $1k tv and the calibation, processor/switch are probably not needed.

I'm picking up my new 6020FD today from Best Buy. I've been reading a little about the break in DVD you can download from eaprogramming.com. Is that something I HAVE to do? And if yes, do I really need to run it for 24 hours? I would like to be able to enjoy some Blu-ray's tonight on my new TV. Any other advice I should be aware of with this TV? This will be my first plasma so any advice would be great. Thanks!

When I picked up my PRO-111 (9G) I just run the white wash as soon as I installed the TV and run it for a couple of times. Then I moved the video settings to movie mode and start watching movies that way. No IR let alone burn in on the screen.

roman and dssturbo ask D-nice for a clear answer but im pretty sure thats what he said that more likely their wont be an "elite" model in 10g and on foward

I hope not :) Where did you see that info?

seems he got it from gus posting........

I think he was talking about the glass being made by Panasonic.

seems he got it from gus posting........

That is where I saw it and was asking for clarification. I hope the line doesn't go away.....

well, you need a stand and cables even if you buy a $1k tv and the calibation, processor/switch are probably not needed.

Actually, if I'd gone with my initial idea (a 46" LCD) I wouldn't have needed a stand, as the Sanus I have would have held it easily; that stand's been repurposed for computer equipment. The processor/switcher would be needed because I have older, non-HDMI equipment and so cannot take advantage of the multiple HDMI inputs, and my laserdiscs (so far) don't look that great with the direct connection via s-video, only okay. A processor would upgrade everything. Then, I could feed everything to the TV via HDMI.

Part of this also is that the 111 has only one component input, whereas I have multiple devices to connect.

roman and dssturbo ask D-nice for a clear answer but im pretty sure thats what he said that more likely their wont be an "elite" model in 10g and on foward

Wheres D at? :)

roman and dssturbo ask D-nice for a clear answer but im pretty sure thats what he said that more likely their wont be an "elite" model in 10g and on foward

Not according to my Pioneer contacts. It's business as usual, Pioneer and the step-up Elite brands will continue.

-Robert

Not according to my Pioneer contacts. It's business as usual, Pioneer and the step-up Elite brands will continue.

-RobertYou are correct Robert. I'm not sure who and/or why I've been quoted as saying that there would not be any Elites when i specifically responded to a post with that type of comment as "False".

D-Nice, sounds like a political debate. Regardless of what you actually say you will be mis-quoted.

-Robert

You are correct Robert. I'm not sure who and/or why I've been quoted as saying that there would not be any Elites when i specifically responded to a post with that type of comment as "False".

Its just a misunderstanding from a post ;)

I know the pdp4280hd's are no longer available, but I found a dealer who has a couple of NOS 4280's. He wants $1650 new in box + tax. I can buy a new Panasonic TH42PZ85U for $440 less. Is the Pioneer really that much better?

hi everyone , i went to Tweeter yesterday to look at the PRO-111 kuro on display and was simply amazed. I am a current owner of a 70inch jvc hd70fh96 DILA TV thats ISF calibrated. I sit from the 70inch 9 feet away. If i were to get the 60 inch Kuro i would be sitting 11 feet since it would be then wall mounted.

Is 11 feet from a 60 inch Kuro too far to be sitting from? Will i not see all the 1080P detail?

Also do they plan on a 65 or 70 inch model soon?

Ive falling in love with a KURO and dont know what to do. IT truely is the best TV. It handled motion blur like ive never seen and contrast was soo good i felt like i can dip my hand into the display......

Help me decide guys , thanx Chris

You are correct Robert. I'm not sure who and/or why I've been quoted as saying that there would not be any Elites when i specifically responded to a post with that type of comment as "False".

Sorry, I hope I didn't start anything! I was just asking for clarification because an earlier post from Gus I believe indicated that the Elites were going away. :)

Sorry, I hope I didn't start anything! I was just asking for clarification because an earlier post from Gus I believe indicated that the Elites were going away. :)

No its good :) Now we are clear

Sorry, I hope I didn't start anything! I was just asking for clarification because an earlier post from Gus I believe indicated that the Elites were going away. :)I know, it's ok :)

D-Nice, sounds like a political debate. Regardless of what you actually say you will be mis-quoted.

-Robert

Great definition of a political debate. :D

Its just a misunderstanding from a post ;)

Or perhaps like Roger Clemens, the post got misremembered:D

Or perhaps like Roger Clemens, the post got misremembered:D

Lol. Good one. http://emoticons4u.com/happy/028.gif

Yes and yes.

Actually they had it (5020) at the BB by me just breaking that barrier, I was all set to buy it until I saw the 111fd for only $500 more... which seems to be about where the cheaper online guys have been selling it.

Just got the 111 (barely) set up last night. I had been happily running a Pio 5030HD for about 6 years (got it at a 'bargain' $10k back in 2002 ) but just moved cross country so I had a good excuse to get rid of old trusty (sold it before the move) and upgrade.

So far all I can say is that the picture is stunningly good (yes the black levels are amazing) , and I havent even adjusted anything yet or run through break in.

Prob will eventually get it calibrated.

Prob will eventually get it calibrated.I will be in Atlanta mid November. If you want your 111FD calibrated, PM me :)

I will be in Atlanta mid November. If you want your 111FD calibrated, PM me :)

So are you coming to Boston :p

- Rich

So are you coming to Boston :p

- RichNot anytime soon. However, I recommend you contact Gregg Lowen if you want to get your panel calibrated this year :)

Not anytime soon. However, I recommend you contact Gregg Lowen if you want to get your panel calibrated this year :)

Still thinking about doing it myself.
I prefer a bit more detail in the low end on the 5020.
Will increasing the Low values equally add detail?

Is Movie mode the only one that can be calibrated?

- Rich

Still thinking about doing it myself.
I prefer a bit more detail in the low end on the 5020.
Will increasing the Low values equally add detail?The RGB Lows on the non-Elites are useless. I think the problem here is you are use to a higher minimum luminance level. Your 5020, even before calibration, has a ruler flat gamma. The only way to create the shadow detail you "think" is correct is through an Elite ISFccc modes with a very large hump in the lower gamma range.

Is Movie mode the only one that can be calibrated?

- RichMovie mode is the only mode that has a ruler flat gamma.

The RGB Lows on the non-Elites are useless. I think the problem here is you are use to a higher minimum luminance level. Your 5020, even before calibration, has a ruler flat gamma. The only way to create the shadow detail you "think" is correct is through an Elite ISFccc modes with a very large hump in the lower gamma range.


The RGB-Lows do not do anything?


Movie mode is the only mode that has a ruler flat gamma.

I want to calibrate move mode. But I thought I could get a bit more out of one of the other modes: Performance, Dynamic, Sport, Game, or Standard if I could get a better gray-scale on them. Is that doable?

Thanks,

Rich

The RGB-Lows do not do anything?Nope.



I want to calibrate move mode. But I thought I could get a bit more out of one of the other modes: Performance, Dynamic, Sport, Game, or Standard if I could get a better gray-scale on them. Is that doable?

Thanks,

RichYou will get higher peak light output if you calibrate Performance/Standard mode. However, your gamma will be in the toilet.

You will get higher peak light output if you calibrate Performance/Standard mode. However, your gamma will be in the toilet.

OK. Thanks for the info.

- Rich

Nope.



You will get higher peak light output if you calibrate Performance/Standard mode. However, your gamma will be in the toilet.


I have calibration settings for both movie and standard. You also pickup a bit of non-defeatable edge ehancement in standard that you don't see in movie mode.

Getting rdy to buy the PDP5020 or the Elite version. Since this will be in the family room for sports/HD TV and the occasional bluray which would be a better choice? 5020 or the Elite version? Also, how are HD sports?

Thanks,

The RGB Lows on the non-Elites are useless. I think the problem here is you are use to a higher minimum luminance level. Your 5020, even before calibration, has a ruler flat gamma. The only way to create the shadow detail you "think" is correct is through an Elite ISFccc modes with a very large hump in the lower gamma range.

Movie mode is the only mode that has a ruler flat gamma.
D-Nice -- That must be why I have been so happy with the PQ of my uncalibrated 6020 in Movie mode, slightly tweaked according to your suggestions.

The RGB-Lows do not do anything?



I would say these are the most important adjustments on the 9g. Atleast it is on the elite imo.

The RGB Lows on the non-Elites are useless. I think the problem here is you are use to a higher minimum luminance level. Your 5020, even before calibration, has a ruler flat gamma. The only way to create the shadow detail you "think" is correct is through an Elite ISFccc modes with a very large hump in the lower gamma range.

Movie mode is the only mode that has a ruler flat gamma.

I'm scheduled for a calibration this Saturday (Kevin Miller). I'd planned to have Pure and Movie modes calibrated, as both are easier on my eyes than other modes to start with and Pure has very good color out of the box (I've been watching exclusively in Pure). I didn't notice any big difference between the two in casual viewing, but is there any reason (theoretical or technical) I should consider Movie over Pure?

Getting rdy to buy the PDP5020 or the Elite version. Since this will be in the family room for sports/HD TV and the occasional bluray which would be a better choice? 5020 or the Elite version? Also, how are HD sports?

Thanks,


I picked up the 111fd for only $500 more than the 5020 (which was also on sale), for that little of a price differential it was an easy decision for me.

If you aren't going to have it calibrated and you will mostly watch sports and like to use the more 'amped up' modes for that then the 5020 may make more sense. That said the more flat line modes like movie still look quite good on the 5020 (better than most plasma's in general) so it is not shabby regardless, you just won't get it up to "11" like a 111 ;)

HD sports depend a lot on the quality of the broadcast, some of them are amazing to watch, some are annoying because they just digitize a crappy analog broadcast so you just get to see the flaws in high definition. On the whole though it is improving over time and you are getting more of the former than the latter.

I'm scheduled for a calibration this Saturday (Kevin Miller). I'd planned to have Pure and Movie modes calibrated, as both are easier on my eyes than other modes to start with and Pure has very good color out of the box (I've been watching exclusively in Pure). I didn't notice any big difference between the two in casual viewing, but is there any reason (theoretical or technical) I should consider Movie over Pure?The post you quoted was for non-Elite Pioneers :)

Pure has more color saturation compared to Movie mode.

You will get higher peak light output if you calibrate Performance/Standard mode. However, your gamma will be in the toilet.

Can I calibrate movie mode and say standard mode independently so I can have two modes.

- Rich

Can I calibrate movie mode and say standard mode independently so I can have two modes.

- RichNo

I'm scheduled for a calibration this Saturday (Kevin Miller). I'd planned to have Pure and Movie modes calibrated, as both are easier on my eyes than other modes to start with and Pure has very good color out of the box (I've been watching exclusively in Pure). I didn't notice any big difference between the two in casual viewing, but is there any reason (theoretical or technical) I should consider Movie over Pure?

Just had Kevin calibrate my living room 141 and JVC RS2/HD100 theater yesterday. Looks like he puts in a solid 7 days a week working.

Very nice improvement in pq on both systems. Kevin has done most of my store displays as well. Kevin loves ControlCAL and gets a very bright white in the ISF day mode so it stands up to any LCD rooms with high ambient light.

You will truly love the results.

-Robert

The post you quoted was for non-Elite Pioneers :)

Pure has more color saturation compared to Movie mode.

Okay. Thanks for the reply. There may be times when program content demands less saturated color, and a calibrated Movie mode may fit the bill, rather than altering a calibrated Pure mode. Already, here and there I've dialed back my Pure color settings a bit based on program content, and don't want to do much of that once the set is calibrated. But if I can have only one calibrated mode I'll just make it Pure and turn the color saturation down when needed.

Just had Kevin calibrate my living room 141 and JVC RS2/HD100 theater yesterday. Looks like he puts in a solid 7 days a week working.

Very nice improvement in pq on both systems. Kevin has done most of my store displays as well. Kevin loves ControlCAL and gets a very bright white in the ISF day mode so it stands up to any LCD rooms with high ambient light.

You will truly love the results.

-Robert

Hello Robert,

I have sensitive eyes, and my living room is less bright than your main showroom during the day, based on what I saw when I was there. What mode were the store displays calibrated in?

I am SO lost. Since I won't be able to get calibration, can I just use the post-break-in picture settings? What's the mode with the least image processing? (I will use the tv for blu ray movies and general videogaming)

Pure, but you could use game mode with game preference on for the biggest reduction in lag.

I am SO lost. Since I won't be able to get calibration, can I just use the post-break-in picture settings? What's the mode with the least image processing? (I will use the tv for blu ray movies and general videogaming)
I have a 6020 and think that D-Nice's recommended settings are a good starting point, see Post #2 in the linked thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1034208

I have further tweaked those settings:

Movie Mode

Contrast 40
Brightness 0
Color 0
Tint Red 1
sharpness -15

Also, I use Power Save 1

Otherwise, my settings are identical to D-Nice's recommendations. I have had my 6020 for 3 months and watch a lot of BD movies. I could not be happier. As to gaming, you are on your own as I haven't done any of that.

I just wanted to pop in and say my uncalibrated 6020 looks fantastic. I use GAME mode mostly and play with MOVIE mode every now and then. I also ride the BRIGHTNESS per source so I can see more shadow detail... -1 to +2 usually. And sometimes inscrese/decrease COLOR from +2.

Couldn't be happier with it. :)

I am SO lost. Since I won't be able to get calibration, can I just use the post-break-in picture settings? What's the mode with the least image processing? (I will use the tv for blu ray movies and general videogaming)

On the Elite's you want to use Pure Mode or enable the ISFccc modes. On the non-elites it's the movie mode.

D-Nice, my 5020 is broken in using the breakin dvd at 150 hrs. and was wondering if it is necessary to wait a period of time before calibrating. From what I am reading folks are satisfied that calibrating is worth the money?

Although the PQ is good using your settings (with a couple of tweaks) I wanted to ask if that is a negative 15 on the sharpness? If so, why? Also, if I increase the contrast to 60, will it negatively affect the overall PQ? Thanks.

Steve

D-Nice, my 5020 is broken in using the breakin dvd at 150 hrs. and was wondering if it is necessary to wait a period of time before calibrating.If you are finished with the break-in period, you can get your set calibrated at any time.

From what I am reading folks are satisfied that calibrating is worth the money?I haven't met a 5020 owner who said calibration wasn't worth it.

I wanted to ask if that is a negative 15 on the sharpness? If so, why?Yes, to turn off EE.

Also, if I increase the contrast to 60, will it negatively affect the overall PQ?You cannot increase your contrast beyond 40 without clipping whites.

Can anyone tell me if the 9g's have the same red-push in warm/movie mode as the 8g's did?

Can anyone tell me if the 9g's have the same red-push in warm/movie mode as the 8g's did?

H, Do you own one of these sets or are you planning on purchasing one to watch you new HD locals on?:)

H, Do you own one of these sets or are you planning on purchasing one to watch you new HD locals on?:)

I own a 5080. I understand that the tweaking options are fairly limited on the 9g's, so I'm curious to see how the color temperatures/picture modes affect the picture.

I know on many of the 8g's (including mine), low color temp/movie mode introduces way too much red into the picture. Even after going into the service menu (per D-Nice's tweaks), everything just looked too yellowish.

Lovin' my 6020 Kuro. One concern I have though is overheating. I have my screen mounted on a lift that lowers into a half-wall. While in use, the screen is clear, but when I lower it into the wall there is almost no clearence in front or back. Which leads me to ask, does anyone know the cool-down time for the 6020s? I'm concerned that if I lower it too soon, it could still be too hot and result in damage for overheating. Kind of a drag when I want to go to bed and have to wait for my t.v. to cool down. Am I being overly-cautious?

In your half wall that it lowers into is it completely sealed off....ie is there a top to it as well or can air escape/ventilate through the top. If it can escape I would wait about 5 minutes as that should be sufficient, but if it is sealed off completely (ie like in a box) then I might let it sit out for minimum 30min.

Thanks Vili. No, it's completely sealed in. I mean, it's not air-tight or anything, but there is definitely no air-flow. Back of the set seems to cool down rather quickly, it's the front of the screen I have concerns about. Wish I could put the lift on a timer so it can lower itself a half hour after I shut off the screen.

... I'm concerned that if I lower it too soon, it could still be too hot and result in damage for overheating. ...
The Kuro's go into standby when you power them off and they still draw a small amount of power and therefor continue to dissipate heat while they're "turned off". You should consider installing an electric fan and a vent into your half-wall.

The Kuro's go into standby when you power them off and they still draw a small amount of power and therefor continue to dissipate heat while they're "turned off". You should consider installing an electric fan and a vent into your half-wall.This is not necessary for any Kuro in standby mode.

The Kuro's go into standby when you power them off and they still draw a small amount of power and therefor continue to dissipate heat while they're "turned off". You should consider installing an electric fan and a vent into your half-wall.

9 gen only burns about 0.5 watt in standby since energy star, I dont think that generates much heat. Previous gens burned a lot more power so they might have issues

Considering a 6020. I just wanted to know if by turning off power save, will the panels brightness increase ? I will be using this in a reasonably well lit bedroom and wanted to know how bright this set can get for daytime viewing.

I answered your question in your thread. It will outperform any other plasma during daytime viewing due to its single pane construction, and AR coating.

If you are finished with the break-in period, you can get your set calibrated at any time.

I haven't met a 5020 owner who said calibration wasn't worth it.

Yes, to turn off EE.

You cannot increase your contrast beyond 40 without clipping whites.

D-Nice, I am really going to show my lack of knowledge here, but you say the sharpness is set to -15 to turn off EE. What is EE?

Also, concerning the calibration of my 5020, do you travel to IL.? I live in Bloomington, which is 30 miles East of Peoria. If you do not come out this way, can you reccomend someone in my area who can do the job?

Thanks so much for your time.

Steve

D-Nice, I am really going to show my lack of knowledge here, but you say the sharpness is set to -15 to turn off EE. What is EE?Edge enhancement

Also, concerning the calibration of my 5020, do you travel to IL.? I live in Bloomington, which is 30 miles East of Peoria. If you do not come out this way, can you reccomend someone in my area who can do the job?

Thanks so much for your time.

SteveIL + Winter = Nooooooo. Maybe in the spring :)

Had my 111 calibrated last Saturday (by Kevin Miller) and notice that I now have more detail in blacks, less crushing. One of the Weather Channel meteorologists was wearing a black top last week which looked like a solid black shape in my uncalibrated Pure mode, but in ISF night (ISF day was unnecessary since my eyes are very sensitive and it doesn't get very bright in here anyway, so it wasn't needed) all kinds of detail popped out; there was a pattern in the blouse and I could even see the trim on the pockets of the top. Good stuff. And this came without the TV being much brighter. I'm not sure it was brighter, in fact.

Since I have no access to the ISF picture controls, I make adjustments using the new DVDO Edge installed along with the calibration. I have backed the brightness off a bit, hoping not to have to turn it down much more.

Has anyone had a calibration in Movie mode? How does that look versus, say, Pure?

Has anyone had a calibration in Movie mode? How does that look versus, say, Pure?A wee bit less color saturated compared to Pure.

That doesn't sound bad at all. I'll experiment with the two (also comparing with ISF night) and perhaps later on have one of them calibrated. Thanks.

That doesn't sound bad at all. I'll experiment with the two (also comparing with ISF night) and perhaps later on have one of them calibrated. Thanks.

D-Nice did mine using Movie Mode, I am very happy. The "wee bit less saturated" is easily compensated for with a minor increase to the color control.

John

Edge enhancement

IL + Winter = Nooooooo. Maybe in the spring :)

Can't blame you for that D-Nice. 29 degrees this morning. Please let me know if you are planning a trip to the Mid West, or perhaps you know of someone in my area that can do a great job? Thanks!

Steve

I patiently waited 4 months, and now my Elite Kuro Signature PRO-101FD is in my Living Room. It arrived safely (big thanks to Robert & Wendy @ Value Electronics) and it is spectacular. For those who might be curious, it has no streaks, no blotching, and no buzzing. It is absolutely perfect and was worth the wait.

Since everything I tested worked as expected, I have begun the recommended break-in. Even though the picture is pretty good right out of the box, I intend to have Kevin Miller calibrate the set after it clocks a few hundred hours.

That's all I've got for now!

Does anyone know if there is a dedicated PRO-101FD Owners Thread?

Thanks rxrepli, ^^ very nice working with you. Our senior tech enjoyed your audiophile dream set-up.

Enjoy!

-Robert

Does anyone know if there is a dedicated PRO-101FD Owners Thread?

Congrats! I have not see a thread, people just post in the 141FD. You can always start one :)

I patiently waited 4 months, and now my Elite Kuro Signature PRO-101FD is in my Living Room. It arrived safely (big thanks to Robert & Wendy @ Value Electronics) and it is spectacular. For those who might be curious, it has no streaks, no blotching, and no buzzing. It is absolutely perfect and was worth the wait.

Since everything I tested worked as expected, I have begun the recommended break-in. Even though the picture is pretty good right out of the box, I intend to have Kevin Miller calibrate the set after it clocks a few hundred hours.

That's all I've got for now!

Does anyone know if there is a dedicated PRO-101FD Owners Thread?

Yes, it is the Signature Thread.

Thanks rxrepli, ^^ very nice working with you. Our senior tech enjoyed your audiophile dream set-up.

Enjoy!

-Robert

O rly?! How bout some pics rxrepli? ;)

Congrats! I have not see a thread, people just post in the 141FD. You can always start one :)

At this time I do not have enough information that would justify starting a new thread. For learning and posting, I'll visit the Signature Elite 141 Owners Thread.

Yes, it is the Signature Thread.


O rly?! How bout some pics rxrepli? ;)

Fanaticalism,

I will do my best, but it will be some time before I can get some pictures posted.

Do the 9g's have sleep timers or an auto-off function?

That's one common sense feature that I missed on my 5080 coming over from a Samsung plasma. An actual function that will turn your TV off at the same point every day.

Sounds simple, but it's a nice safety feature when you have careless roommates.

Hello All --

I've been following both 9G threads -- very educational and worthwhile reading. Can anyone (D-Nice?) provide an "executive summary" comparison of the PDP-6020FD with the PRO-151FD? (Or point me to a link if this has already been posted.) I'm looking for both spec and relative performance differences, with some objective and subjective pro/con thoughts on each model and what type of user may favor one over the other.

Also, what are the near- to mid-term possibilities for prices? I'd like to get one for the holidays but am willing to wait into the new year if significant savings result.

Thanks in advance for your help.

In terms of Pricing Pioneer said they wont lower pricing soon. Especially on the Elite model. 151FD has the ability to be calibrated and have the best possible picture out there. It all depends on the budget but Elite IMO is worth the extra.

D-Nice did mine using Movie Mode, I am very happy. The "wee bit less saturated" is easily compensated for with a minor increase to the color control.

John

The difference between Pure and Movie is very slight, to my eyes; in casual viewing it's all but impossible for me to see. In fact, I'm not sure I do see it. "Wee" indeed. Still,if I do get another mode calibrated, it'll likely be Movie.

Has anyone compared these two sets against each other?Also how well do the pioneers handle in rooms with a lot of ambient light?Thanks in advance

Has anyone compared these two sets against each other?Also how well do the pioneers handle in rooms with a lot of ambient light?Thanks in advance
I'm assuming you're referring to the Sony XBR8.
In a high-end showroom, with both sets properly adjusted, (I don't know if they were professionally calibrated):
1) The XBR was very bright compared to the KURO. It had a good picture even when viewed at an angle. However at extreme angle viewing (>120°) or when standing up (the XBR was on a stand 22" from the floor), there was some noticeable decrease in brightness. Not to the point where the picture was unpleasant, in fact it was still quite good, but it was about similar to a good non-LED backlit LCD at those angles
2) The Sony XBR produced very convincing blacks, as good as any LCD I've seen, but the Kuro black levels were just so much better! It was not just blacker but there were so many more visible grades of black, giving dark scenes more detail and making colors look amazingly more realistic. Of note, though, the XBR maintained better black-level detail with the lights in the showroom on high.
3) Except for high detail in extreme dark scenes, the Kuro held it's own in a fairly well-lit room. The image was bright and detailed with good contrast and very accurate colors. There was no glare except if a light was shining on a dark part of the screen at the exact opposite angle i was viewing from. In a comletely dark room, the XBR was, dare i say, too bright. It was a bit annoying. If i had this TV at home, i'd have to turn the brightness down before watching a movie in the dark.:(
4) I'm not familiar with the technical terms for all of the artifacts that you sometimes see in fast moving scenes, and there really wasn't a specific problem with the XBR that i can point out, but during fast moving scenes and pans the picture on the Kuro looked better.

In summary, I'm somewhat partial to Plasmas over LCDs. I own the Kuro 5020. With the exception of their superior brightness, each LCD technology improvement (120Hz, LED backlight etc.), is just an incremental step closer to the quality of a plasma. Yes, there are plasmas that are difficult to watch in the light, but unless you're going to be watching in a bright sunlit room with bay windows and glass patio doors, there's no need to settle on an LCD- even the best LCD on the market when the Pioneer Kuro produces a better picture and provides a more satisfying viewing experience even in ambient lighting.
I watch my Kuro 5020 very often during the day or at night with a lamp on in the corner of the room. The picture is very pleasing with no glare, sufficient brightness, excellent contrast and accurate color. When I turn the lights off and watch a Blu-Ray, there is not an LCD panel on the market (and won't be for years-if ever) that can reproduce the vivid detail and life-like color of the Pioneer Kuro!:D

regardless of technology (OLED, LCD, Plasma), properly calibrated, they are supposed to have the same approximate brightness of 45 ft lambert max.

I watch my TVs in complete darkness, so I set my brightness to 20 ft lambert, closer to a properly calibrated commercial movie projector of 16 ft lambert max.

regardless of technology (OLED, LCD, Plasma), properly calibrated, they are supposed to have the same approximate brightness of 45 ft lambert max.

I watch my TVs in complete darkness, so I set my brightness to 20 ft lambert, closer to a properly calibrated commercial movie projector of 16 ft lambert max.

You're right. But out of the box, in the dark, the LED backlit LCDs just plain HURT. Of course one is going to adjust a TV before serious viewing, but with a good plasma, such as the Kuro, once the brightness and grey level are properly set, it can be used in various light conditions with little further adjustment.

Haven't visted this site since my last HDTV purchase. Good to be back! Been reading plenty of posts, but confused on one matter. Seems one of the biggest differences between the Elites vs. Non Elites, is the extra calibration features. Would that even matter if you where going to get the set professionally calibrated anyway? Hope that makes sense. One more thing, whats the general opinion on purchasing a 50" set in regards to 1080p. Would it make a noticable difference from a viewing range of 10 feet. Currently using a 50" 1080i only set. Thanks!

Haven't visted this site since my last HDTV purchase. Good to be back! Been reading plenty of posts, but confused on one matter. Seems one of the biggest differences between the Elites vs. Non Elites, is the extra calibration features. Would that even matter if you where going to get the set professionally calibrated anyway? Hope that makes sense. One more thing, whats the general opinion on purchasing a 50" set in regards to 1080p. Would it make a noticable difference from a viewing range of 10 feet. Currently using a 50" 1080i only set. Thanks!
I suggest that the lack of the extra calibration features on the XX20s but present on the Elite models is a much bigger deal to some of the folks who post here than it is to the mass of XX20 owners, including me. I simply have not missed the arcane extra adjustments available in the Elites. I setup my 6020 in Movie mode and made only incremental changes from the defaults. Nevertheless, the PQ has been awesome, particularly when viewing 1080p BDs.

I don't mean to be judgmental and want to make clear that what I say here is based solely on my own experience.

Thanks for the input gwsat. So would the lack of the extra calibration feature be needed if getting the set professionally calibrated?

I've got what might be a simple question, but... AVS threads refer to 9th Generation Kuros, but recent articles in the last issue of Widescreen Review referred to the 1st and 2nd generation Kuros from the last two years.

How many model iterations has the Kuro been through, elite or non-elite?

Pioneer's 8th gen panel is = 1st gen Kuro.
9th gen = 2nd gen Kuro

Thanks for the clarification. A recent widescreen review compared a Sony LCD to a Gen 1 Kuro, and I thought they were comparing a new Sony to an 8-yr old Pioneer, which seemed really bad reporting :)

David susilo the pioneer elite can get 51 fl without clipping whites IF calibrated correctly via the ISF ccc mode.

regardless of technology (OLED, LCD, Plasma), properly calibrated, they are supposed to have the same approximate brightness of 45 ft lambert max.

I watch my TVs in complete darkness, so I set my brightness to 20 ft lambert, closer to a properly calibrated commercial movie projector of 16 ft lambert max.

alma either way the elite is worth it for the settings but if you PLAN on getting it professionaly calibrated then theirs no reason why hesitate as you WILL get better results on a ELITE vs a non elite. Especially on a professionaly calibrated one!

Thanks for the input gwsat. So would the lack of the extra calibration feature be needed if getting the set professionally calibrated?

regardless of technology (OLED, LCD, Plasma), properly calibrated, they are supposed to have the same approximate brightness of 45 ft lambert max.

That's high for this technology (for critical viewing), 30-40fL is recommended with most Professionals calibrating at approx. around 30fL for their customer's Pioneer displays for (critical viewing) - I know a few that like it a little lower in their own HT too (thought 20fL is on the low side from my conversations with the Pro's who have these in their own man caves). Of course, as previously stated, Pioneer's ISFccc Interface is able to achieve >40fL (>50fL) without clipping white or destroying gamma.

Many owners also want to use their Pioneer with lights or during the day with windows open.. this is where Pioneer's 9G ISFccc Interface has a lot of benefit over PURE.

Im not saying that 45 ft lambert is the max the Pioneers can do, but the number is as per Joel Silver of ISF for daytime viewing of any kind of flat panel display.

As previously mentioned, I personally set mine to approx 20 ft lambert.

Yes, I re-read what you posted.. I am talking about critical viewing in a light controlled environment.

For environments without light control, the Calibrator (Pro or DIY) will need to adjust per that environment and to the customer's wishes.. it ranges from 38fL to 50fL for those environments (i.e. during the Day, windows open) from my conversations with Professionals. Most likely, this will vary even more so than for those environments for critical viewing.

Reference is always for critical viewing......

That's high for this technology (for critical viewing), 30-40fL is recommended with most Professionals calibrating at approx. around 30fL for their customer's Pioneer displays for (critical viewing) - I know a few that like it a little lower in their own HT too (thought 20fL is on the low side from my conversations with the Pro's who have these in their own man caves). Of course, as previously stated, Pioneer's ISFccc Interface is able to achieve >40fL (>50fL) without clipping white or destroying gamma.

Many owners also want to use their Pioneer with lights or during the day with windows open.. this is where Pioneer's 9G ISFccc Interface has a lot of benefit over PURE.

I have ISF Night on my set, around 30fL, and it's plenty bright even in the day (but then, my eyes are sensitive to excess light). Plus, it's better than Pure; cleaner, more balance to the image.

Could the Elite speakers of a 111FD be mounted onto a non-Elite 5020?

Has anybody tried this? And does everything "line up" properly?

Could the Elite speakers of a 111FD be mounted onto a non-Elite 5020?

Has anybody tried this? And does everything "line up" properly?Yes they can and vise-versa.

Could the Elite speakers of a 111FD be mounted onto a non-Elite 5020?

Has anybody tried this? And does everything "line up" properly?

Yes they can and vise-versa.

Woot! D-Nice, you have made my day!!! :D

If only I could find someone willing to sell me their 111FD speakers ...

Now, on to my follow-up question:

I've only seen eBay listing for older Pioneer side-speakers (i.e. not the SMW2025 that the 111FD comes with), so can I assume these may not fit properly due a difference in mounting hole patterns and/or brackets? :confused:

Woot! D-Nice, you have made my day!!! :D

If only I could find someone willing to sell me their 111FD speakers ...

Now, on to my follow-up question:

I've only seen eBay listing for older Pioneer side-speakers (i.e. not the SMW2025 that the 111FD comes with), so can I assume these may not fit properly due a difference in mounting hole patterns and/or brackets? :confused:Do not purchase previous years' speakers as they are not designed for the 9Gs.

I just helped a friend install a new 6020. He would like to use the speaker(s) provided with the 6020 for his center channel. His receiver only has one center channel output. How do you wire the L&R speaker terminals together to combine the two speakers into one. I know you are not supposed to wire two +/- leads from one terminal on the amplifier as it could damage the amplifier.

What is the proper way, if any, to do this?