No inside knowledge here but I think a lot has been made of remote callibration. My guess is that "remote callibration" is a tool to so that a custom installer can change settings on the panel remotely when the client does something to mess it up, saving the installer some hassle. The signature monitor appears to be a product is aimed at that segment.

If it did auto-calibration they would probably be touting special sensors or something, but it seems like pio is just touting the connectivity.

Time will tell, but, I think by September/October I will be the proud owner of a 120 lb baby Elite.

That's a long time to wait for your baby. http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/images/smilies/meditate.gif

if it is strictly a monitor that certainly puts a twist on things
Information in this thread and elsewhere indicate it's a pretty good chance the signature series is a monitor only product.

I too find that intriguing, but it makes me wonder if it wouldn't be advantageous to have a set of speakers attached to the TV. I don't have a HT set up as yet, so I'll ask others for comment...but are there times when it would be nice to simply use the set's speakers rather than fire up your entire audio system?

I mean, there are times such as just before I leave for work that I'd like to snap on the Weather channel for just a couple of minutes to catch my "local on the 8's". I'm thinking it might be kind of nice to not have to power up all the rest of the gear.

That's a long time to wait for your baby. http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/images/smilies/meditate.gif

Deep meditation will help. http://www.performanceprobe.com/forum/images/smilies/meditate.gif

I am hoping the Elite 60" MSRP will drop at least 20% by the time it ships. That's how much I am willing to pay

You are a tight wad :eek:

The Tweeter price is already 17% off MSRP. That extra 3% worth waiting for?

Now ... if you had said '30% by the time it ships' :p

Why such secrecy on the monitors? Is the road show suppose to cover those or not?

I mean, there are times such as just before I leave for work that I'd like to snap on the Weather channel for just a couple of minutes to catch my "local on the 8's". I'm thinking it might be kind of nice to not have to power up all the rest of the gear.

I think it might depend a lot on what it meant to power up all the rest of the gear. I have never used the speakers that are part of my current set and only watch via my HT sound system. I do have full separates and can often just get a quick watch of something by powering up my center channel amp and my processor/pro and the TV. I have never felt this presented any disadvantages and I have been watching TVs this way for over 10 years.

With a receiver and something like a Harmony remote it would be even simpler. I would think you could easily set up a watch basic TV mode that might only turn on the receiver and provide power to the front speakers or the front center only.

When I buy a 151, its speakers will probably end up being used with my computer, like I did with the detachable speakers from my old Sony CRT XBR set. I have a little low power receiver that can power them and that takes a feed from my computers sound output.

hmm so this signature series is interesting. ive been thinking since it has no speakers how would one go about bringing an audio signal from your cable box to a reciever?

better explained- the cable box only has one hdmi i assume, and it would go to the tv

so im thinking this is "strictly" just a monitor then?

also assuming its "just" a monitor, this would somewhat explain why you would have "IP" calibration, apposed to having someone come out to do it.

if it is strictly a monitor that certainly puts a twist on things


I believe the signature line is aimed at people with a more integrated set up.

You would need to run your cable box to either a pre-amp or receiver and then run the receiver to the monitor or you could run the hdmi or component to the monitor and separate audio cables to the receiver.

It is no different than a regular A/V set up that most people employ now. I have not used the speakers on a TV in my place for years, when I turn on the system the receiver and speakers turn on with the TV.

Bottom line, if you do not use TV speakers or an internal tuner (i.e. use cable box or sat) then this is a very interesting option, if it is indeed the same price as the regular elites.

Deep meditation will help. http://www.performanceprobe.com/forum/images/smilies/meditate.gif

Before you know it, the stork will deliver your shiny new Kuro. :cool:

Information in this thread and elsewhere indicate it's a pretty good chance the signature series is a monitor only product.

I too find that intriguing, but it makes me wonder if it wouldn't be advantageous to have a set of speakers attached to the TV. I don't have a HT set up as yet, so I'll ask others for comment...but are there times when it would be nice to simply use the set's speakers rather than fire up your entire audio system?

I mean, there are times such as just before I leave for work that I'd like to snap on the Weather channel for just a couple of minutes to catch my "local on the 8's". I'm thinking it might be kind of nice to not have to power up all the rest of the gear.

You hit the nail on the head.

I know I certainly wouldn't want to fire up a whole HT system every time I sit down to watch a little TV.

A lot of owners will probably use these strictly in a HT environment for watching movies, with another TV in the house for regular viewing. But not me! I'll be watching everything on it, from news and sports to video games, Blu-ray and DVD. Who needs to have reference level 5.1 sound when you're just checking the news............

So is it pretty much known that the elites will come at least a month after the non elites? I don't have a tv at all right now, but then again I shouldn't let a month or two make the decision for me.

So is it pretty much known that the elites will come at least a month after the non elites? I don't have a tv at all right now, but then again I shouldn't let a month or two make the decision for me.

No, the Elites will be arriving at the same time as the Non-Elites. They will be in short supply at first.

Pioneer is fantastic, but man they are expensive. :(

Fantastic and expensive often go together with tech toys, cars, houses, etc.

I know I certainly wouldn't want to fire up a whole HT system every time I sit down to watch a little TV.

I currently have a 42" monitor connected to my cable box (no tuner needed). It has speakers, but I never use them. I always leave my HT 'On' ... the amount of power it consumes with no signal going though it is minimal ( ... sorry Mother Earth :o)

since the 60inch kuro is around 4500 on amazon right now. do you think the new kuro will sell for around 4500 on amazon once it is released?

I believe the signature line is aimed at people with a more integrated set up.

You would need to run your cable box to either a pre-amp or receiver and then run the receiver to the monitor or you could run the hdmi or component to the monitor and separate audio cables to the receiver.

It is no different than a regular A/V set up that most people employ now. I have not used the speakers on a TV in my place for years, when I turn on the system the receiver and speakers turn on with the TV.

Bottom line, if you do not use TV speakers or an internal tuner (i.e. use cable box or sat) then this is a very interesting option, if it is indeed the same price as the regular elites.

I think somewhere back a month or so ago it was speculated the Signature could possibly be $500 less than the Elite MSRP due to no tuner, speakers, or stand. Unsure though, but hopefully this will be verified or denied this week?

but AFAIK they all do interpolation to achieve 120Hz

do any just repeat each frame 5 times?

Toshiba's new 540 and 550 series of 40", 42", 46" and 52".

-Robert

Toshiba's new 540 and 550 series of 40", 42", 46" and 52".

-RobertIt's about time we here from you :)

Welcome back Robert!

Fellow Canadians, I now have SKUs for the 5020 and 6020 in my Best Buy computer!!! Initial pricing looks like we Canadians are getting hosed as usual though! (Although sometimes prices are different when we actually get the product)

PM me if you want the MSRP that is in the system now for Canada.

since the 60inch kuro is around 4500 on amazon right now. do you think the new kuro will sell for around 4500 on amazon once it is released?

That low price for 8g Kuros is because the new 9g models are about to be released. If you want a similar lower price on the 9g models you will probably have to wait a year until the 10g models are about to come out.

You will see dates released as soon as end of week, as the Roadshow is now ending. You will also see set pricing released very soon. Pioneer has released some price information to dealers but keep in mind since these units are not even in the US yet, so nothing is set in stone. Also keep in mind that the dates Pioneer will be giving are not always the most accurate and that supplies will be very limited since the demand is really high for this new 9G unit. The end of June could happen but I would not hold my breath on it.

Actually final assembly is done in CA and has been in progress for a few weeks already. Also the road show ends tomorrow. Today is the actual first day of meetings and training.

They are keeping us very very busy so I am sorry I have not posted any new information yet. I have over 40 pages of notes so far and my technical training begins after lunch today. I'm scheduled for receivers and display today and Cinema and BD tomorrow. But I have already enjoyed meeting Chris Walker and Dave the AV VP last night at the pool party.

I'm just on a brief break so more to come very late tonight after we get back from dinner. So stay tuned...

-Robert

That low price for 8g Kuros is because the new 9g models are about to be released. If you want a similar lower price on the 9g models you will probably have to wait a year until the 10g models are about to come out.
10gs will be made by Panasonic right? - I would doubt that the 9g will drop in price then.

Fellow Canadians, I now have SKUs for the 5020 and 6020 in my Best Buy computer!!! Initial pricing looks like we Canadians are getting hosed as usual though! (Although sometimes prices are different when we actually get the product)

PM me if you want the MSRP that is in the system now for Canada.

Hmmm that doesn't quite jive with this:

"...Concernant les prix, Pioneer Canada et Pioneer USA devrait être au même prix pour tout les nouveaux modèles de Kuro de 2e génération..."
- Frédéric Bourgeois,CTS
Représentant Sénior, Pioneer Electronique du Canada

Translation:
"...Regarding prices, Pioneer USA and Pioneer Canada should be the same price for all new models of Kuro 2nd generation..."
- Frédéric Bourgeois,CTS
Senior Representative, Pioneer Canada

SOURCE (http://www.quebecaudio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16158&st=0&gopid=200369)

The Canadian MSRPs are not ridiculously higher than USA like they were last year, but we are still paying more....I wish we carried the Elite's here at BB/FS Canada though.

The Canadian MSRPs are not ridiculously higher than USA like they were last year, but we are still paying more....I wish we carried the Elite's here at BB/FS Canada though.

If the dollar is at par, we shouldn't be paying 10% more for a product that would cost the same across the border, for some just a short drive, on top of 13% in taxes. Oh, not to mention a 'Senior Pioneer Canada rep' setting the expectation for 'at par' pricing. These sets are already priced at a premium.

but are there times when it would be nice to simply use the set's speakers rather than fire up your entire audio system?


One little advantage which I do use is the option to be able to have 2 audio signals going at the same time and to take advantage of the 2nd HDMI on my hdtv.

For instance I run most devices hdmi thru my Pioneer elite receiver to my 70" JVC lcos but I run a PC straight to the TV. This allows me to switch inputs on the TV and get sound picture while the audio is still running from the other input.

It's a small convenience but I still wouldn't hestiate to pass up audio from the hdtv if it saved a good chunk of cash. ;)

If the dollar is at par, we shouldn't be paying 10% more for a product that would cost the same across the border, for some just a short drive, on top of 13% in taxes. Oh, not to mention a 'Senior Pioneer Canada rep' setting the expectation for 'at par' pricing. These sets are already priced at a premium.

you at least get an additional year of warranty coverage!

10gs will be made by Panasonic right? - I would doubt that the 9g will drop in price then.
For the love of god, NO the 10G's won't be made by Panasonic. The glass will be made by someone other than Pioneer (probably Panasonic) to Pioneer specs, but the rest will be made and assembled by Pioneer. I'm sorry, but doesn't ANYBODY ever read and search before posting anymore?

On a similar note, would people PLEASE can it on the pricing and vendor talk? As said numerous times before, this line of discussion is against the forum rules that everyone is expected to READ.

When a thread has 5+ pages of posts a day, it's really frustrating for those of us who are going to the effort to keep up with it that easily half of it is consumed by questions that have been answered a page or 2 back (every day) and by pricing talk that's against forum rules.

I know I'm not adding any new information here, but I did answer a question (even if it's been addressed numerous times already) and hope that at least a few people will take the rest of my comments to heart and not consider them personal attacks.

you at least get an additional year of warranty coverage!

An extra year of warranty coverage for $565-$1130.... let me think a little bit about that one... :rolleyes:

you at least get an additional year of warranty coverage!In canada the warranty is 1 year on non-elite and 3 years on elite. So the extra 1 year is only for elite models.

In canada the warranty is 1 year on non-elite and 3 years on elite. So the extra 1 year is only for elite models.

Hey Raps_fan [et tout le gang!]: I checked the Canadian BestBuy numbers you [Raps_fan] sent me versus the Pioneer USA press release listing USA MSRP's (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Continues+to+Surpass+Black+Level+Performance+with+Ne w+Line+of+2008+KURO+Televisions) -- ;) LOL I hope I won't be breaking any forum rules when I report to you that they are IDENTICAL. :D

So the pricing you have for BB Canada *IS* the MSRP pricing in the USA. So actually, it's confirmation of GOOD/GREAT news for Canadians from what I can tell!! :D http://www.maj.com/gallery/BackCap/Emoticons/canada-flag.gif

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Press+Room/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Continues+to+Surpass+Black+Level+Performance+with+Ne w+Line+of+2008+KURO+Televisions

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Press+Room/Press+Releases/%28clone+of%29+Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Disp lays+with+New+Signature+Series+of+Monitors

Seems like just a copy of the US release but look at the warranty of the elites :)

For the love of god, NO the 10G's won't be made by Panasonic. The glass will be made by someone other than Pioneer (probably Panasonic) to Pioneer specs, but the rest will be made and assembled by Pioneer. I'm sorry, but doesn't ANYBODY ever read and search before posting anymore?

On a similar note, would people PLEASE can it on the pricing and vendor talk? As said numerous times before, this line of discussion is against the forum rules that everyone is expected to READ.

When a thread has 5+ pages of posts a day, it's really frustrating for those of us who are going to the effort to keep up with it that easily half of it is consumed by questions that have been answered a page or 2 back (every day) and by pricing talk that's against forum rules.

I know I'm not adding any new information here, but I did answer a question (even if it's been addressed numerous times already) and hope that at least a few people will take the rest of my comments to heart and not consider them personal attacks.


First, CHILL.

Second, not probably panasonic, yes panasonic, the deal has already been announced.

First, CHILL.

Second, not probably panasonic, yes panasonic, the deal has already been announced.

And to add to this ... Panny will make only the glass component of Pios 10g plasmas ... and will do so according to Pio's specifications and with the help of 100-plus Pio workers and engineers who are being transferred to Panny's plant.

Also, Panny's capabilities to make much larger runs and their production efficiencies and economy of scale will allow Pio to have significantly less expensive glass ... which will then be shipped to Pio's plant to be fitted with Pio-engineered processors, logarithms, bells, whistles, etc.

In the end the 10g Pios will by no means be a Panny ... and most likely they will be less expensive. (notice I didn't say cheaper because they aren't cheap in the first place).

If people would bother to read past posts they would have already read and know all this.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Press+Room/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Continues+to+Surpass+Black+Level+Performance+with+Ne w+Line+of+2008+KURO+Televisions

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Press+Room/Press+Releases/%28clone+of%29+Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Disp lays+with+New+Signature+Series+of+Monitors

Seems like just a copy of the US release but look at the warranty of the elites :)


With the MSRP the same in the US & Canada I wonder why Pioneer Canada
still gives the 3 year warranty on Elites & Elite Signature.

Pioneer Canada always used the excuse of an extra year's warranty on Elites
for a higher MSRP in Canada.

Maybe this is payback!!

Just a curiosity - with all the discussions of speakers/no speakers with the Signature series, I wonder if they could be added. That is, will the panel itself have the speaker outputs that are a part of the Elite and Non-Elite models? If so, one could still opt for the presumably better panel and wire an appropriate pair of speakers to the back. Thoughts?

Just a curiosity - with all the discussions of speakers/no speakers with the Signature series, I wonder if they could be added. That is, will the panel itself have the speaker outputs that are a part of the Elite and Non-Elite models? If so, one could still opt for the presumably better panel and wire an appropriate pair of speakers to the back. Thoughts?

It won't have an amp to power the speakers.

For the love of god, NO the 10G's won't be made by Panasonic.

... hope that at least a few people will take the rest of my comments to heart and not consider them personal attacks.

No apologies necessary as a good beating behind the woodshed would have been appropriate

No apologies necessary as a good beating behind the woodshed would have been appropriate

LOL!

The Kuros have a 1 year warranty, and the Elite Kuros have a 3 year warranty in Canada.
Thanks a lot Dragon.

-Coggs

No

Just a curiosity - with all the discussions of speakers/no speakers with the Signature series, I wonder if they could be added. That is, will the panel itself have the speaker outputs that are a part of the Elite and Non-Elite models? If so, one could still opt for the presumably better panel and wire an appropriate pair of speakers to the back. Thoughts?

As D-Nice indicated, no cable card.

Elites will have a newer/better color filter then the non-elites.

Signature Series have no audio in or out, no media receiver, no speakers, no stand.

Elites glass are hand picked grade "A" (whatever that means)

Is it really worth the extra money to get the Elite? I mean, I think I'm already stretching to get a Pioneer (I was going to go Panasonic and still might), but I don't want to regret going a little more to get the "right" tv. .

Russ offered me advice last year when I asked the same question. One point he mentioned then was to consider the price difference over the life of the set (assuming you plan to own it for five or more years). If the price difference is divided by five [years], ask yourself if paying the extra $150/200 per year is worth it to you.

I consider myself a Joseph SixPackage (a slightly more sophisticated Joe SixPack) because I hang out here and absorb a tiny bit of everyone's collective wisdom. Will I notice the difference between features? If so, will it be important in two months? five months? If no, then maybe I don't spend the extra funds that way. Sometimes I can't appreciate the difference between the best and the really, really good.

Elites glass are hand picked grade "A" (whatever that means)

...it comes with Steak? ;):D

Sorry guys, my bad on the CDN pricing.....looks like we will be the same as Pio USA MSRPs!!! USA retail will still be lower I am sure, but at least we are in the ballpark this year! Hooray!

Sorry guys, my bad on the CDN pricing.....looks like we will be the same as Pio USA MSRPs!!! USA retail will still be lower I am sure, but at least we are in the ballpark this year! Hooray!

By the way are the sets now "on order" or are they simply in the system?

Elites glass are hand picked grade "A" (whatever that means)All plasma manufacturers have grades of PDP glass. Grade A is basically 85%+ defect free glass. This is the same grade the normal Elites have, however, the Signature series will get the absolute best Grade A glass.

The Filet mignon of plasma glass.

Is it really worth the extra money to get the Elite?

I am struggling with the same question, but here is my logic ...

I have a very nice 1080p 42" LCD (very crisp picture, but my eye's hurt from watching it for more than a couple hours. It's like staring at a light bulb). My LCD has numerous controls to adjust picture quality, but after many 'fun' hours of playing with these controls ... I find hitting 'Reset' to the factor settings to be just as good (more of this ... hurts more of that). So if factory settings are nearly perfect ... then why pay a premium for the Elite and then pay someone to come to my house to set the picture (how much is that, and is that a one time thing or every couple years???)

My Time Warner Cable HD channels are only transmitted in 720p ... so to truly benefit from 1080p I need a Blu-ray player, and some Blu-ray disks ... so why not take the difference in the price of the Elite plus having it 'tuned', and buy 50 (to 100?) Blu-ray disks to enjoy on my 'almost' perfect 6020???

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand why everyone is asking about prices - they're in the first post in this thread, aren't they?

All plasma manufacturers have grades of PDP glass. Grade A is basically 85%+ defect free glass. This is the same grade the normal Elites have, however, the Signature series will get the absolute best Grade A glass.
Can I buy a stand from Pioneer as an option for the Signature series? I like everything about the Signature series except the "no stand" thing. :(

Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand why everyone is asking about prices - they're in the first post in this thread, aren't they?

Everyone is looking for the prices the forum sponsers will be selling them at.

Can I buy a stand from Pioneer as an option for the Signature series? I like everything about the Signature series except the "no stand" thing. :(

Who said anything about no stand? The fist post of this thread shows a Pro-141FD Elite Signature 60" with a stand. :confused:

As D-Nice indicated, no cable card.

Elites will have a newer/better color filter then the non-elites.

Signature Series have no audio in or out, no media receiver, no speakers, no stand.

Elites glass are hand picked grade "A" (whatever that means)

Hopefully one thing it means is a guarantee of no stuck pixels.

The stand is sold separately.

No offense, but no factory settings are close to perfect or nearly perfect, regardless of plasma or LCD. If you think that, then you have other issues.

Russ

I am struggling with the same question, but here is my logic ...

I have a very nice 1080p 42" LCD (very crisp picture, but my eye's hurt from watching it for more than a couple hours. It's like staring at a light bulb). My LCD has numerous controls to adjust picture quality, but after many 'fun' hours of playing with these controls ... I find hitting 'Reset' to the factor settings to be just as good (more of this ... hurts more of that). So if factory settings are nearly perfect ... then why pay a premium for the Elite and then pay someone to come to my house to set the picture (how much is that, and is that a one time thing or every couple years???)

My Time Warner Cable HD channels are only transmitted in 720p ... so to truly benefit from 1080p I need a Blu-ray player, and some Blu-ray disks ... so why not take the difference in the price of the Elite plus having it 'tuned', and buy 50 (to 100?) Blu-ray disks to enjoy on my 'almost' perfect 6020???

The stand is sold separately.

Where did you hear that? I read the whole thread and his post was the first "no stand" comment I read. I thought only those Panasonic dorks with their "awesome" first 1080p 65" did that? The first post says "Info TBA." Does that mean the stand will cost over $1,000 like what Panny's 65" stand did? :(

Yes

Can I buy a stand from Pioneer as an option for the Signature series? I like everything about the Signature series except the "no stand" thing. :(

I've posted it a couple of times and so has Robert that the signature series is monitor only. No stand, no speakers, no audio, no tuner. Thinner depth, other exclusive firmware features.

Where did you hear that? I read the whole thread and his post was the first "no stand" comment I read. I thought only those Panasonic dorks with their "awesome" first 1080p 65" did that? The first post says "Info TBA." Does that mean the stand will cost over $1,000 like what Panny's 65" stand did? :(

Everyone is looking for the prices the forum sponsers will be selling them at.

I knew that... somewhere in the deep, dark recesses of my mind!

Okay, let me ask one more question - since the Elite seems to be "the one" - am I correct in saying that one cannot buy one online?

Maybe I should just ask how one goes about buying an Elite so that it might be possible to get one below MSRP and with sales tax savings?

btw - THANKS to all here for the enormous amount of information present. I would have NEVER considered Pioneer if it had not been for this forum.

I know oman is a forum sponsor that sells Elites, are there any others that sell Elites?
I was ready to place my pre release order from Roman only to be crushed to find out that they have no financing....:(

I know oman is a forum sponsor that sells Elites, are there any others that sell Elites?
I was ready to place my pre release order from Roman only to be crushed to find out that they have no financing....:(Robert @ Value Electronics

All plasma manufacturers have grades of PDP glass. Grade A is basically 85%+ defect free glass. This is the same grade the normal Elites have, however, the Signature series will get the absolute best Grade A glass.

Does that mean there will be a lot less 100% defect free glass going into Elite panels?.. Do you see diversion of better panels for the Signature series as a factor reducing availability of the most defect free glass for the Elites?

Is Pioneer robbing from Elite Peter to pay Signature Paul?

Robert @ Value Electronics

Robert told me he is no longer allowed to ship wherever he wants to, that Pioneer is making it more territorial. Is this true for other forum sponsors as well?

Does that mean there will be a lot less 100% defect free glass going into Elite panels?No.

Do you see diversion of better panels for the Signature series as a factor reducing availability of the most defect free glass for the Elites? What?

Is Pioneer robbing from Elite Peter to pay Signature Paul?What?

Robert @ Value Electronics

If he's within 250 miles.

Robert told me he is no longer allowed to ship wherever he wants to, that Pioneer is making it more territorial. Is this true for other forum sponsors as well?
I take it we are talking about Pioneer Elites. They have always been very restricted on how they are sold. These terms and conditions change all the time....

I've posted it a couple of times and so has Robert that the signature series is monitor only. No stand, no speakers, no audio, no tuner. Thinner bezel, thinner depth, other exclusive firmware features.

I do not think you are right on this one. From all accounts the Bezel is not thinner just the Depth. That is what I have heard and read. As to the stand, monitor only does not necessarily mean no stand, so you need something else to back that up.


I think I will wait to hear from Robert, he seems a bit more knowledgeable and is currently at the road show.

No.
Hahaha. Ok well you just answered all the questions right there. I guess I was just asking, If Elite is Grade A, and Signature is 'Super' Grade A, is there a ceiling on the 85%+ figure on the quality of glass going into the Elites? i.e. anything over 90-95% goes to signature?

A few of us figured, used to other companies skimping on quality, that an increase in quality in one model is bound to come at the cost of another and of the consumer, That if Pioneer needs the best panels for the Signature series, there will be less (or lesser quality) left over for the Elite series.

The Canadian MSRPs are not ridiculously higher than USA like they were last year, but we are still paying more....I wish we carried the Elite's here at BB/FS Canada though.


Hey RAPS_FAN, I just check RSS for any of the new pioneers (pio and pio elite) and didn't see any of the new sku's. I'm looking to get one for myself. Can you help me out and send me the 5020 sku through a PM. The sku should be the same for canada bb and usa bb right? Thanks for your help.

-MagnoliaPro2

If he's within 250 miles.
Yeah, I forgot about that one. This one of Pioneer's policies I really dislike. Completely counter-productive.

Yeah, I forgot about that one. This one of Pioneer's policies I really dislike. Completely counter-productive.

Not expected to change this year?

News story regarding Pioneer's plans to outsource its plasmas to Matsushita. No company can continue to suffer those kinds of financial losses ...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2304691,00.asp

From what I have heard if Pioneer had not made the deals with Sharp and Matsushita they would have gone bankrupt.

I think I will wait to hear from Robert, he seems a bit more knowledgeable and is currently at the road show.I'm not exactly sure how long you have been "lurking in the shadows" before registering on AVS, but you really do not know who russwong is and what type of connections he has. I suggest you do your homework before attempting to pass judgment on "knowledgeable" ;)

Not expected to change this year?Nope

Not expected to change this year?

Will be more enforced than any of the past years, you will see.

News story regarding Pioneer's plans to outsource its plasmas to Matsushita. No company can continue to suffer those kinds of financial losses ...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2304691,00.asp

God I hate when these "professional" journalist do this..........

Pioneer Ditches Plasma Panels, Plans LCD Return

That is such a bogus headline, I don't know what to say. It's like saying an automotive company isn't making vehicles anymore because they outsourced the engine.........

Will be more enforced than any of the past years, you will see.

Oh goody...................

Not expected to change this year?

Nope

Robert will find out Friday if Pioneer will let him go nationwide.

Oh goody...................

lol

Anyone else worried that pioneer might have tried too hard to reduce the price of the 9g by building it more "cheap" or using cheaper parts? They already had great losses from previous models, I would think they would try to at least reduce some of their costs somehow. The question is how hard did they try?

Since they are completely reorganizing the way they sell plasmas they could always use the excuse that they had to cut costs on the 9g because pioneer was losing money, and that's why it wasn't as reliable as previous models or future models. That is if the 9g ends up not being as reliable.

Am I just thinking too much into this?

News story regarding Pioneer's plans to outsource its plasmas to Matsushita. No company can continue to suffer those kinds of financial losses ...http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2304691,00.aspFrom what I have heard if Pioneer had not made the deals with Sharp and Matsushita they would have gone bankrupt.
We will see what happens. Heck the economy is so bad and unstable, no one and no company is really safe any more.

Is Pioneer's website down?

yep, see what you guys did :confused: LOL

Is Pioneer's website down?

Yes. I just tried it myself.

Anyone else worried that pioneer might have tried too hard to reduce the price of the 9g by building it more "cheap" or using cheaper parts? No

They already had great losses from previous models, I would think they would try to at least reduce some of their costs somehow.Pioneer's stance on Quality of quantity has not change.

The question is how hard did they try?To do what?

Since they are completely reorganizing the way they sell plasmas they could always use the excuse that they had to cut costs on the 9g because pioneer was losing money, and that's why it wasn't as reliable as previous models or future models. That is if the 9g ends up not being as reliable. So how do other manufacturers reduce costs? PDP prices go down every year. It has nothing to do with using cheaper parts.

Am I just thinking too much into this?Asolutely.

While, I'm sure you feel good about your backhanded slap at my knowledge, I'm a big boy. You are more then welcome to listen to whomever you want. You are correct though, bezel thickness is the same for the Sig series, it's only depth that is different, I mis-typed on that and will modify the previous post.

For those of you that are interested for the information that I have to share:
August for 60" Signature Series
Sept for 50" Signature Series

The current plan is to have the same pricing as the Elites, but Pioneer and the engineers want to push them at a higher price, so we'll see what the market will take.

Oh and yes, I'm still sticking to no stand with the Signature Series. But hey, what do I know?

Robert's a very knowledgeable man, so he's a great person to listen to. I hope he saw my open seat at the roadshow. I was too busy playing in a golf tournament to make it down there.

I will try and post pictures from the roadshow, but I think Robert's going to do the same.


I do not think you are right on this one. From all accounts the Bezel is not thinner just the Depth. That is what I have heard and read. As to the stand, monitor only does not necessarily mean no stand, so you need something else to back that up.


I think I will wait to hear from Robert, he seems a bit more knowledgeable and is currently at the road show.

So, you can only buy an Elite from a forum sponsor if they're located within 250 miles of you? Is that correct?

He sure is no D-Nice though! :)

I'm not exactly sure how long you have been "lurking in the shadows" before registering on AVS, but you really do not know who russwong is and what type of connections he has. I suggest you do your homework before attempting to pass judgment on "knowledgeable" ;)

russwong knows his stuff, its been proven for many years.

No


So how do other manufacturers reduce costs? PDP prices go down every year. It has nothing to do with using cheaper parts.



I really don't know this, but it seems like pioneers prices fell more than anyone elses in there "class level", no?

So, you can only buy an Elite from a forum sponsor if they're located within 250 miles of you? Is that correct?

It's a gray area.

Just like LCDs;).

So, you can only buy an Elite from a forum sponsor if they're located within 250 miles of you? Is that correct?

Please please just contact the dealers, no reason to have this here :)

I really don't know this, but it seems like pioneers prices fell more than anyone elses in there "class level", no?No

No offense, but no factory settings are close to perfect or nearly perfect, regardless of plasma or LCD. If you think that, then you have other issues.

Russ

LOL ... your are right. I have a life outside my computer and TV!!!

Glad to see you at least play golf :p

Prices are disappointing...5020 streets same as 5010 did in july 07. For people on the fence grabbing a 5010 now may be a good choice.

:) Tell me about it. Ultimately whatever makes a person happy, including factory settings for a display is just up to the person.

LOL ... your are right. I have a life outside my computer and TV!!!

Glad to see you at least play golf :p

Do you know ,D-Nice or Russ, will the panels automatically go into 72hz mode when fed a 1080p/24 signal?

Have there been any changes to the 72hz feature?

Anyone else worried that pioneer might have tried too hard to reduce the price of the 9g by building it more "cheap" or using cheaper parts? They already had great losses from previous models, I would think they would try to at least reduce some of their costs somehow. Hmm... (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hmm) this seems more like Panasonic's market strategy to me. :rolleyes:

Who will be manufacturing Pioneer's glass next year?

Will shifting FP assembly to ":eek:" Mexico ":eek:" for quick shipment to the masses :) in the USA & Canada (http://www.lakegeorge.com/) be next?

Remember what they say "You get what you pay for (http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/NEWS/research/mktg_shiv_pricing.shtml)." ;)

I'm not exactly sure how long you have been "lurking in the shadows" before registering on AVS, but you really do not know who russwong is and what type of connections he has. I suggest you do your homework before attempting to pass judgment on "knowledgeable" ;)

I do know the difference b/t facts and inferences as I am an attorney with a background in philosophy, so I merely ask for facts to back statements up, not inferences without solid foundations. If the pictures you posted are accurate representations, then the 151 and the 141 do have the same bezel. So are your postings correct? If so you should not refute my statement. Furthermore, unless he is at the road show, I will trust what Robert is told TODAY. Sorry D Nice!

I do know the difference b/t facts and inferences as I am an attorney with a background in philosophy, so I merely ask for facts to back statements up, not inferences without solid foundations. If the pictures you posted are accurate representations, then the 151 and the 141 do have the same bezel. So are your postings correct? If so you should not refute my statement. Furthermore, unless he is at the road show, I will trust what Robert is told TODAY. Sorry D Nice!

Calm down buddy!

This isn't a court room, these guys are willing to spend some of their spare time to share information we otherwise might not be privy to.

You're badgering the witness!

You are a funny man... I'm not sure what they taught you in law school, but in case you forgot, this place that we are meeting on is called the internet. If you are looking for hardened facts, then you better wait for press releases and stick to corporate websites. For someone who gets so riled up about having the facts, you might feel better not looking at the forums, because I think you might explode. Have you met Auditor55, I think you'd get a kick out of him!

As I already posted, the bezel is the same size on the Elites and the Sig Series. You won your case! That law degree sure paid off.

As a side note, when you find out about the stand in the Signature Series, let me know what you think!

Now back to the thread..


I do know the difference b/t facts and inferences as I am an attorney with a background in philosophy, so I merely ask for facts to back statements up, not inferences without solid foundations. If the pictures you posted are accurate representations, then the 151 and the 141 do have the same bezel. So are your postings correct? If so you should not refute my statement. Furthermore, unless he is at the road show, I will trust what Robert is told TODAY. Sorry D Nice!

I do know the difference b/t facts and inferences as I am an attorney with a background in philosophy, so I merely ask for facts to back statements up, not inferences without solid foundations. If the pictures you posted are accurate representations, then the 151 and the 141 do have the same bezel. So are your postings correct? If so you should not refute my statement. Furthermore, unless he is at the road show, I will trust what Robert is told TODAY. Sorry D Nice!When I quoted your post, did you see exactly what I quoted? I targeted one specific line of that post.....so there is nothing to refute.

Speaking on just the facts, pictures of the Signature series were available last week on Engadget and Gizmodo. per the New York press demo. You being a lawyer should know how important it is to research information FIRST ;)

These are the fact that have been handed to you @ 8:01PM on Wednesday May, 13, 2008 :)

D-Nice, now you're giving out too much info! I'm just a fan like all of you.

The current plan is to have the same pricing as the Elites, but Pioneer and the engineers want to push them at a higher price, so we'll see what the market will take.
Actually, it's pretty amazing that Pioneer feels they are able to lower the MSRP of the 9G's relative to the 8G's. I just know there's gotta be a VP of Finance somewhere in Japan right now sweating bullets. :D (I say this from experience.)

Oh sure...with electronics and other types of manufacturing you do obtain economies of scale...and the amortization of your R&D helps production generally get cheaper as you move through the product's life; but I guarantee you...when the production budget was being formulated for the 9G's, I'm sure no one built into the budget the huge run-up in fuel/shipping costs, through-the-roof commodity prices, or the massive slide of the dollar that we've seen.

If Pioneer somehow does end up pricing the Signature series the same as the Elite's, it'll either be one of the most foolish of financial moves or one of the smartest. I'm sure they are watching fuel prices and the currency markets very closely before they announce pricing on the Signature series.

It's a gray area.

Just like LCDs;).

Not per my Pioneer contract it is not a gray area!

So, you can only buy an Elite from a forum sponsor if they're located within 250 miles of you? Is that correct?

Yes, as a Pionner Elite dealer, this is correct. Anyone tells you different they are incorrect!

My Time Warner Cable HD channels are only transmitted in 720

Are you sure about that? TW in my area pass through what they receive, 720p or 1080i, it can change as you flick the channels. If you're not seeing this your STB might be set to output everything as 720p. Mooch around in the config, you can probably turn this off. I did, but then I jumped to FiOS TV as soon as they switched it on in my area.

Actually, it's pretty amazing that Pioneer feels they are able to lower the MSRP of the 9G's relative to the 8G's. I just know there's gotta be a VP of Finance somewhere in Japan right now sweating bullets. :D (I say this from experience.)

They'll probably make it up in quantity of sales. I'm probably getting an elite for me and one for my folks. :D

It's a much better year to buy a Kuro. Especially in Canada!!

Calm down buddy!

You're badgering the witness!

LOL :D

Here are some "crappy" pictures....

Yes, as a Pionner Elite dealer, this is correct. Anyone tells you different they are incorrect!

You know, just the fact that you could mispell Pioneer makes the information you are trying to relay hard to believe.

Yes, as a Pionner Elite dealer, this is correct. Anyone tells you different they are incorrect!

That doesn't mean customers can't buy from an Authorized dealer who's not within those boundaries.

Here are a few more "crappy" pics...

Here are some pictures....

Haha congratulations on killing the Kuro blacks with your cam flash lol :rolleyes:

lol but thanks for the pics! it's cool to see the bezel etc

Yes, as a Pionner Elite dealer, this is correct. Anyone tells you different they are incorrect!

You are a Pioneer Elite dealer? Whats the company name? You work for Invision

For those of you that are interested for the information that I have to share:
August for 60" Signature Series
Sept for 50" Signature Series

The current plan is to have the same pricing as the Elites, but Pioneer and the engineers want to push them at a higher price, so we'll see what the market will take.

Oh and yes, I'm still sticking to no stand with the Signature Series. But hey, what do I know?

Robert's a very knowledgeable man, so he's a great person to listen to. I hope he saw my open seat at the roadshow. I was too busy playing in a golf tournament to make it down there.

I will try and post pictures from the roadshow, but I think Robert's going to do the same.

100% totally accurate and likely even more than I would have posted as this is truly insider information. Pioneer engineers and senior marketing and sales management is deciding on the price levels of the Signature series this evening so we should have pricing before we leave tomorrow afternoon. Engineering is pushing for the Signature series monitors to be higher priced than the TVs.

The monitors have some very special and powerful features not found on any TV or monitor before.

I'm on a very brief break before we go to dinner so more to come later tonight, assuming these Kuro guys don't get me drunk.

I've taken tons of pictures and even more notes from the meetings.

-Robert

You know Dnice,

I gotta ask. With all due respect.You seem a little too interested in this product lately.

Are you being endorsed or paid in some way by Pioneer?

If this is offensive to some i dont care and dont bother polluting the thread with your posts. I expect as always an honest answer.

PaulNope...not at all. I do not work for any display manufacturer nor would I ever take money or any type of "compensation" from a display manufacturer.

This is a limited time offer

To enjoy AVS forums with 25% less arrogance, follow the following instructions:

1 - Left-click on PIONEER MAN name and choose “View public profile”
2 – Click on “Add PIONEER MAN to Your Ignore List (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=7967666)”

Enjoy!

Hahaha,

Lets add Pioneer "dude" to the list.

Hey russwong are you at the road show?

-Robert

Here are some pictures....

Why does the 141FD Signature Elite have speakers attached? Does it have a way to attach the regular Elite's speakers, but just doesn't come with them?

We all wait with baited breath. And Robert, you know you can tell us anything. We won't tell a soul. ;)

Nope...not at all. I do not work for any display manufacturer nor would I ever take money or any type of "compensation" from a display manufacturer.

OK, Thats satisfactory with me.

So I am curious, straight up and no insinuations what industry are you in and what led you to be interested in displays?

Paul

After you read this forum for a while, you can make your own judgment as to which participants provide useful, accurate information you can trust.

Why does the 141FD Signature Elite have speakers attached? Does it have a way to attach the regular Elite's speakers, but just doesn't come with them?

I don't see any speakers on the 141?:confused:

The monitors have some very special and powerful features not found on any TV or monitor before.

Hi Robert thanks for the info and keeping us up to date as promised! Can you elaborate on the above statement? (ie. what features?) Also have you seen the 111FD? Any impressions?

I know that Magnolia carried the Elite, but will they possibly also carry the Signature? Who is expected to carry the Signature, is it just custom installers?

OK, Thats satisfactory with me.

So I am curious, straight up and no insinuations what industry are you in and what led you to be interested in displays?

Paul
:)

I'm not a big fan of this new sport: ridiculing new members.

Welcome, guys.

Why does the 141FD Signature Elite have speakers attached? Does it have a way to attach the regular Elite's speakers, but just doesn't come with them?That is a 151 not 141.

We all wait with baited breath. And Robert, you know you can tell us anything. We won't tell a soul. ;)

While you're catching fish with your breath, I'll be waiting anxiously for August to see what the difference between the 151FD and 141FD. :D

Excellent! And just because you made me laugh so hard, I won't edit it.

Addition: Do you think we'll have to wait until August? I think if they're showing the 141 at the Dealer show, they should
give us the info on it too; right? I hope so. I'm sure hoping to make my decision in the next week or two.

I don't see any speakers on the 141?:confused:

That is a 151 not 141.

I see now. The other pictures clearly showed the 141 placard, the 151 placard was darker. I'm only on a lowly Proview VGA only LCD. I can't even get 1G black levels on this thing :(

Excellent! And just because you made me laugh so hard, I won't edit it.
:p;)

Hahaha... I modified the post to indicate "crappy"... you should have seen the ones I didn't post. Posted more for aesthetics... Not going to be able to take pictures from an image perspective. (Yes, what good is that... sorry.) I'm relying on Robert to do that. :)


Haha congratulations on killing the Kuro blacks with your cam flash lol :rolleyes:

lol but thanks for the pics! it's cool to see the bezel etc

The one with the speakers is not the Signature series. It's the 151. I think I mixed the pictures up..

Why does the 141FD Signature Elite have speakers attached? Does it have a way to attach the regular Elite's speakers, but just doesn't come with them?

Addition: Do you think we'll have to wait until August? I think if they're showing the 141 at the Dealer show, they should
give us the info on it too; right? I hope so. I'm sure hoping to make my decision in the next week or two.

To actually see it, yes :(

I want to know what this near "perfect" glass looks like. If the current 8G Elite glass is 85%, I want to know what 99.9% looks like.

The one with the speakers is not the Signature series. It's the 151. I think I mixed the pictures up..

I got confused. I was hoping that if it really was the 141FD, it would possibly mean all the 151FD accessories could fit on the 141FD, just not included. That way I hope the stand on the 141FD could use a stand from say the 151FD that no one wants. I'd hate the stand to cost $1,500+ like Panasonic did when they first came out with their 65" 1080p.

I don't like mounting a PDP on the wall. I'd put it strapped to a wooden carpet covered stand secured to the wall.

Excellent! And just because you made me laugh so hard, I won't edit it.

Addition: Do you think we'll have to wait until August? I think if they're showing the 141 at the Dealer show, they should
give us the info on it too; right? I hope so. I'm sure hoping to make my decision in the next week or two.You won't have to wait until August for the Signature series pricing.....much much much sooner :)

To actually see it, yes :(

I want to know what this near "perfect" glass looks like. If the current 8G Elite glass is 85%, I want to know what 99.9% looks like.I can assure you that Elites do not have 85% or less defect free glass. As I've said before, it's 95%+.....just like the Signature series.

You won't have to wait until August for the Signature series pricing.....much much much sooner :)

Seems strange that both the US and Canadian websites are down!

This is a limited time offer

To enjoy AVS forums with 25% less arrogance, follow the following instructions:

1 - Left-click on PIONEER MAN name and choose “View public profile”
2 – Click on “Add PIONEER MAN to Your Ignore List (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=7967666)”

Enjoy!I remember when "optivity" could determine the number of AVSF members "ignore" lists he was on. Now I can only "imagine" how many Forum participants I have alienated.

Too bad AVSF doesn't show this information because "inquiring" minds would like to know.

Seems strange that both the US and Canadian websites are down!

Their DNS entry both point to the same IP address...

Means they most probably are hosted on the same infrastructure (same servers).

I would like sooo much to see the Canadian Press Release!

I remember when "optivity" could determine the number of AVSF members "ignore" lists he was on. Now I can only "imagine" how many Forum participants I have alienated.

Too bad AVSF doesn't show this information because "inquiring" minds would like to know.

Haha!

How's it going? Haven't seen you in a bit. I'm probably on them too. But who cares.

A little OT but..........

This thread must be setting some kind of record here at AVS, 1100 post in 7 days!

Seems strange that both the US and Canadian websites are down!

They're probably updating their sites to include something about the new sets being released in a few months.

They're probably updating their sites to include something about the new sets being released in a few months.

LOL That's the first thought that popped into my head. We can only wait and see.:)

On the other hand, Panasonic STILL hasn't added the PZ800Us to their site...............http://www.performanceprobe.com/forum/images/smilies/dunno.gif

They're probably updating their sites to include something about the new sets being released in a few months.

If there site is down because they are adding content, they need to have a better corporate website strategy... ever heard of a Under Construction sign or something?

Better yet, do the maintenance in the wee hours of the morning.

LOL That's the first thought that popped into my head. We can only wait and see.:)

On the other hand, Panasonic STILL hasn't added the PZ800Us to their site...............http://www.performanceprobe.com/forum/images/smilies/dunno.gif

Yea I know and they have been out for a while now :confused:

If there site is done because they are adding content, they need to have a better corporate website strategy... ever heard of a Under Construction sign or something?

I guess this is all part of their new financial strategy.

They both save the design costs of the "Under Construction" page AND the bandwidth to transmit the data. ;)

As long as they keep the MSRP (and the manufacturer cost (and the dealer cost)) lower, I'm happy. :cool:

The monitors have some very special and powerful features not found on any TV or monitor before.

I've taken tons of pictures and even more notes from the meetings.

-Robert

You got our attention Robert. :cool:

I would like to see if these features are noticeably improve picture quality over a regular Elite. I hope is not the engineers "geeking out" on things that would not add any real world value to the picture quality for calibration.

That said, I hope the price is equal to the regular Elites...

Sorry D Nice if I came off hostile, I just do not like to see conflicting info. When I saw the incorrect bezel statement it made it hard to accept the rest of the assertions with blind faith.

100% totally accurate and likely even more than I would have posted as this is truly insider information. Pioneer engineers and senior marketing and sales management is deciding on the price levels of the Signature series this evening so we should have pricing before we leave tomorrow afternoon. Engineering is pushing for the Signature series monitors to be higher priced than the TVs.

The monitors have some very special and powerful features not found on any TV or monitor before.

I'm on a very brief break before we go to dinner so more to come later tonight, assuming these Kuro guys don't get me drunk.

I've taken tons of pictures and even more notes from the meetings.

-Robert

I sure hope they don't price them higher. Special features should equal out no tuner, speaker, or stand......... price them the same, but not higher. Just my opinion :)

John

I sure hope they don't price them higher. Special features should equal out no tuner, speaker, or stand......... price them the same, but not higher. Just my opinion :)

John

You would think, right? :rolleyes:

You would think, right? :rolleyes:

Yes, lol, works in my marketing model :D

John

Can you settle this speculation about whether the Signature series designed for NA uses a media/feature box or not? The European AV Forum keeps referring to a media box with one of the 9G models slated for their market.

As D-Nice indicated, no cable card.

Elites will have a newer/better color filter then the non-elites.

Signature Series have no audio in or out, no media receiver, no speakers, no stand.

Elites glass are hand picked grade "A" (whatever that means)

Can you settle this speculation about whether the Signature series designed for NA uses a media/feature box or not? The European AV Forum keeps referring to a media box with one of the 9G models slated for their market.It does not

Sorry D Nice if I came off hostile, I just do not like to see conflicting info. When I saw the incorrect bezel statement it made it hard to accept the rest of the assertions with blind faith.At the end of the day, no hard feelings :)

The maximum native (on/off) contrast ratio is 100,000:1. Post calibration, with a peak brightness level set @ 40fL, the contrast ratio will be between 40,000:1 and 50,000:1.

Wow! Any chance of a 70+ inch?

Elites glass are hand picked grade "A" (whatever that means)

I still want to know what happens to the "A-" glass? I highly doubt it's thrown away. Maybe they sell it to Vizio, since they're in California too. I bet that'll make Auditor55 happy.

Wow! Any chance of a 70+ inch?
Not for the 9G's.

Robert, I am hoping that you have learned whether the engineering and/or assembly of the 9G models will have (at least somewhat) dampened down the infamous "panel buzz" problem that has been present with a significant number of the 8G panels.

100% totally accurate and likely even more than I would have posted as this is truly insider information. Pioneer engineers and senior marketing and sales management is deciding on the price levels of the Signature series this evening so we should have pricing before we leave tomorrow afternoon. Engineering is pushing for the Signature series monitors to be higher priced than the TVs.

The monitors have some very special and powerful features not found on any TV or monitor before.

I'm on a very brief break before we go to dinner so more to come later tonight, assuming these Kuro guys don't get me drunk.

I've taken tons of pictures and even more notes from the meetings.

-Robert

Robert, I am hoping that you have learned whether the engineering and/or assembly of the 9G models will have (at least somewhat) dampened down the infamous "panel buzz" problem that has been present with a significant number of the 8G panels.I would not call the "buzzing" reports a significant number of total owners.

Anyone else worried that pioneer might have tried too hard to reduce the price of the 9g by building it more "cheap" or using cheaper parts? They already had great losses from previous models, I would think they would try to at least reduce some of their costs somehow. The question is how hard did they try?

Since they are completely reorganizing the way they sell plasmas they could always use the excuse that they had to cut costs on the 9g because pioneer was losing money, and that's why it wasn't as reliable as previous models or future models. That is if the 9g ends up not being as reliable.

Am I just thinking too much into this?

No, you're not thinking. Read previous posts on this thread and the Pio-is-making-cheaper-plasma's myth will be dispelled.

If the PDP prices go down, isn't that 'cheaper parts' by definition? ;)

Cheaper price perhaps, but not necessarily cheaper quality. In fact, because the tech is ever evolving, I assume that a lot of parts improve in quality.

Pioneer's Site back up, no new info that I can see.

So you put no stock in the AVS forum thread that includes a poll of owners, and you do not think it's reasonable to extrapolate from the survey findings to the population of owners as a whole -- most of whom have been no where near the AVS Forum ? Go back and look at the data. If Pioneer had directly surveyed all 8G owners (which, of course, they would never do), I believe the results would have underscored the term "significant" in every sense, including statistical. Do you have your own survey data that contradicts the findings of the AVS thread? If so, let's hear it.

I would not call the "buzzing" reports a significant number of total owners.

You know, just the fact that you could mispell Pioneer makes the information you are trying to relay hard to believe.

What?? You've never made a typo while typing?? if you're this picky then all of your future posts better be spelled perfectly with not one letter out of place. Actually ... even with perfect spelling ... you're hard to believe.

You know, just the fact that you could mispell Pioneer makes the information you are trying to relay hard to believe.

BTW, genius ... it's "misspelled" not mispelled.

Common, this is a good thread lets get along :)

I'm anxiously awaiting pictures from Robert and a reply from you, Roman. :p

Obviously, you have some pent up anger over spelling corrections. I whole heartily apologize if my post directed at someone else has caused you to get yourself into a tizzy.

What?? You've never made a typo while typing?? if you're this picky then all of your future posts better be spelled perfectly with not one letter out of place. Actually ... even with perfect spelling ... you're hard to believe.

Sorry that I've been gone everybody. Even though I am no insider, I can still sum up everything pretty well. So the 141/101 will have the same MSRP as the elites, except that they may be more if engineering gets what they want. They will also have unheard of features (something to do with remote cal.???) included in the firmware. Robert??? Those 40 pages of notes can turn into lots of information for us ;). Russ, thanks for all the info you give to us. As to you D. Robert... Can we have those high quality pictures that was was hinting at. Thanks for everything guys. Wow I love this forum.

Excellent! And just because you made me laugh so hard, I won't edit it.o.

Sorry, I can't help myself. Not sure how I became the thread's spellchecker but ....

"The spelling : baited breath instead of bated breath is a common mistake that, in addition to perpetuating a cliché, evokes a distasteful image. Before using the expression bated breath, think of the verb : abate, as in : the winds abated, not fish bait" .......... In other words, bated breath means held breath.

Sorry, I can't help myself. Not sure how I became the thread's spellchecker but ....


Just use Firefox. It'll check spelling for you. Words misspelled will show up as such, underlined in red. But it won't fix grammar mistakes like, bated versus baited. :(

Obviously, you have some pent up anger over spelling corrections. I whole heartily apologize if my post directed at someone else has caused you to get yourself into a tizzy.

You misinterpret my amusement for anger and my poking fun at you as a tizzzy. You're the one who started with criticizing a minor typo and how it casts doubts on Pioneerdudes' info reliability ... so I figured you were fair game.

Wow!! Here I am again with this spelling thing. I promise to stop.

Just use Firefox. It'll check spelling for you. Words misspelled will show up as such, underlined in red. But it won't fix grammar mistakes like, bated versus baited. :(

I'm using Safari which does the same thing. But I promise only to use it on my spelling and not others. I've learned my lesson.

Wake me up when Robert comes back...

Obviously, you have some pent up anger over spelling corrections. I whole heartily apologize if my post directed at someone else has caused you to get yourself into a tizzy.

It is just one word, and it is "wholeheartedly".:)

I'm on a very brief break before we go to dinner so more to come later tonight, assuming these Kuro guys don't get me drunk.-Robert

Me thinks Robert is being a bad boy tonight:p

I suspect he will be posting soon, as dinner is from 5:30 to 10:00.

Russ

Me thinks Robert is being a bad boy tonight:p

I visited Magnolia in San Jose today, they now have the 6020 in their system at MSRP with a date of June 10th, but they could not confirm whether they will actually have them on that date or not. They purchased 50 units.

It's a gray area.

Just like LCDs;).I'm having to catch up on three days of crazy talk, but that's the best one liner of the year!

:D:D:D

So if I understand correctly, are the Elites manufactured in Japan and assembled in California??

So if I understand correctly, are the Elites manufactured in Japan and assembled in California??

All Pioneer is.

What's written on the box. Does it only say "assembled in the USA" or does it say something like "Design from Japan/Parts from Japan, assembled in USA"

All Pioneer is.

I would not call the "buzzing" reports a significant number of total owners.So you put no stock in the AVS forum thread that includes a poll of owners, and you do not think it's reasonable to extrapolate from the survey findings to the population of owners as a whole ...For anyone with training in statistical analysis and design, it's clear that no survey can be statistically significant if participants select themselves.

All you can learn from such answers is the opinion of the individuals who participate. The people who participate enjoy getting to record their opinion on a topic, but that's where the "value" ends. The collected opinions can't be used to predict responses or experiences for a wider population.

I'm having to catch up on three days of crazy talk, but that's the best one liner of the year!

:D:D:D

Why thank you ht.:D:D http://www.performanceprobe.com/forum/images/smilies/bravo.gif

Why thank you ht.:D:D http://www.performanceprobe.com/forum/images/smilies/bravo.gif:)

Oh man I really hope that will be the MSRP in Canada. Such a large margin from last year's models.


http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Press+Room/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Continues+to+Surpass+Black+Level+Performance+with+Ne w+Line+of+2008+KURO+Televisions

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Press+Room/Press+Releases/%28clone+of%29+Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Disp lays+with+New+Signature+Series+of+Monitors

Seems like just a copy of the US release but look at the warranty of the elites :)

What's written on the box. Does it only say "assembled in the USA" or does it say something like "Design from Japan/Parts from Japan, assembled in USA"

Assembled in the USA with Japan and USA parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopup2u
You know, just the fact that you could mispell Pioneer makes the information you are trying to relay hard to believe.

BTW, genius ... it's "misspelled" not mispelled.



actually, in that particular case, it would be:...misspell...

both of you, go finish your homework now!!!:eek: :-)

Is spelling class over yet?

Let's get back to Pioneer PDP 101.:D

Hi there, Im a swedish user who is very interested in the 9g "Signatures series" (especially since it may have the separate "mediabox" here in Europe! :cool: ), but Im wondering a little about the stand, since it may not be included...? Will you be able to buy this separatelly (surely this must be an option?) or do you have to mount the monitor on the wall?

Thanx for an excellent thread and forum by the way! :)

Hi there, Im a swedish user who is very interested in the 9g "Signatures series" (especially since it may have the separate "mediabox" here in Europe! :cool: ), but Im wondering a little about the stand, since it may not be included...? Will you be able to buy this separatelly (surely this must be an option?) or do you have to mount the monitor on the wall?

Thanx for an excellent thread and forum by the way! :)
It doesn't come with a stand, but you will be able to buy it separately.

-Coggs

Oh man I really hope that will be the MSRP in Canada. Such a large margin from last year's models.

Unfortunately, they seem to stress "Pioneer USA" at the beginning of the
press release. I'm assuming there's still a Pioneer Canada announcement.

So if I understand correctly, are the Elites manufactured in Japan and assembled in California??This year... but next year it may be China/Mexico.

So you put no stock in the AVS forum thread that includes a poll of owners, and you do not think it's reasonable to extrapolate from the survey findings to the population of owners as a whole -- most of whom have been no where near the AVS Forum ?Nope.

Go back and look at the data. If Pioneer had directly surveyed all 8G owners (which, of course, they would never do), I believe the results would have underscored the term "significant" in every sense, including statistical.That an opinion that you cannot backup with factual statisitcal information. A "Significant" manufacturing defects is above 30% of all panels produced. Contrary to what you think the AVS buzz poll means, the buzz issue is no where near those numbers.

Do you have your own survey data that contradicts the findings of the AVS thread? If so, let's hear it.Don't need it. Feel free to conduct your own survey of ALL Pioneer Kuro owners.

All Pioneer is.All Pioneer PDPs for the US :)

Just want to thank the "insiders" that have added lots to this thread via their time and effort. It means a lot to all us psychos:p

I can't wait until someone gets their hands on one of these and can post some measured critiques.

This year... but next year it may be China/Mexico.Please stop spreading mis-information. Pioneer WILL NOT assemble PDPs for the US in China or Mexico.

Let's not try to deflect the issue through conveniently adopting a high-minded position of academic purity. All of us who have had formal training in statistics are aware of the limitations of deviating from a randomly selected sample and having to deal with a sample of people who have stepped forward (a so-called self-selected sample) . That's why I said that ideally it would have been important for Pioneer to have conducted a proper survey of owners and learned from it. But we are talking real world here with real world limitations for surveying a problem that could tarnish a company's reputation for quality.The online poll and calls into the Customer Support Center hopefully served as sufficient cause for Pioneer to (quietly) further investigate the problem. That is what I hope we'll see reflected in the performance of the 9G panels.

Again, the online poll should have been treated as a starting point for a more rigorous study of the problem. There's certainly enough there to be concerned. I find it very interesting how your approach to the issue raised here about panel buzz was to attempt to discredit the messenger and minimize the problem from the outset. That raises questions about your impartiality and your being committed to getting at the truth in the service of owners of Pioneer products.



For anyone with training in statistical analysis and design, it's clear that no survey can be statistically significant if participants select themselves.

All you can learn from such answers is the opinion of the individuals who participate. The people who participate enjoy getting to record their opinion on a topic, but that's where the "value" ends. The collected opinions can't be used to predict responses or experiences for a wider population.

Let's not try to deflect the issue through conveniently adopting a high-minded position of academic purity. All of us who have had formal training in statistics are aware of the limitations of deviating from a randomly selected sample and having to deal with a sample of people who have stepped forward (a so-called self-selected sample)......

Bueller........? Bueller........?

You are putting many of us to sleep. We are here for a crash course in Kuro's, not a statistics lesson.

Let's keep the two paragraph fight-picking rants directed at a certain "you" to PM. What a waste of space.

Unfortunately, they seem to stress "Pioneer USA" at the beginning of the
press release. I'm assuming there's still a Pioneer Canada announcement.


I think the 3 year warranty on the Elites backs up your assumption.

I find it very interesting how your approach to the issue raised here about panel buzz was to attempt to discredit the messenger and minimize the problem from the outset. That raises questions about your impartiality and your being committed to getting at the truth in the service of owners of Pioneer products.Hmmm, let's see how we should go forward from here.....

"panel buzz was to attempt to discredit the messenger and minimize the problem from the outset" - I highly suggest you do your research before you attempt to post claims like this. There are 2...count with me....2 types of buzz on Pioneer displays. One was from the power supply and the other was from the panel itself. The 9G Kuros, and some of the later batches of 8G Kuros, have new power supplies. I posted this info about 1.5 weeks ago. The buzz from the actual panel is inherent to the lack of an additional front glass covering (replaced by the bonded color filter) and cell firing technique. Panel buzz is NOT going anywhere. Pioneer has a notice within the documentation that comes with the Kuros (it’s actually taped to the front of the PDP) regarding panel buzz.

Also, I personally notified my contact of the buzz reports last year. So please do not attempt to tell me I'm trying to minimize the. The number of actual reported buzzing panels is miniscule per Pioneer's investigations.

So once you digest what I just post, please explain how Pioneer or myself aren't getting the truth out about panel buzz????

so if a notice comes with the 9g's and it buzz's from the panel how annoying is this buzz? *assuming its similar to the 8g panel buzz that is*

and since they post a notice is the tv returnable or under warranty if the buzzing accurs?

The number of actual reported buzzing panels is miniscule per Pioneer's investigations.

In an attempt to keep this thread useful, I have some ?'s for you D:

1) Does this mean not all 9G panels buzz? (Or do all panels buzz and just the few people with good ears / quiet environment notice it?)

2) If one was to get a buzzing 9G Kuro and the retailer agreed to swap it, would you have a good chance of getting a NON-buzzing panel the second time?

3) Is buzzing something Pioneer covers under its warranty if it develops after the retailer warranty period? Can they repair it? Thanks!

so if a notice comes with the 9g's and it buzz's from the panel how annoying is this buzz? *assuming its similar to the 8g panel buzz that is*

and since they post a notice is the tv returnable or under warranty if the buzzing accurs?The notice states that the buzz is normal. I'm not sure why it would be a warranty issue.

1) Does this mean not all 9G panels buzz? (Or do all panels buzz and just the few people with good ears / quiet environment notice it?) All PDPs buzz. Some louder than others. It is the nature of how plasma works. I've already posted why Pioneer models would buzz louder than, say, Samsung. This additional panel buzz has been with Pioneer displays since the bonded color filter was introduced (5G models). It's not a "new" issue.

2) If one was to get a buzzing 9G Kuro and the retailer agreed to swap it, would you have a good chance of getting a NON-buzzing panel the second time? Please see my answer to number 1.

3) Is buzzing something Pioneer covers under its warranty if it develops after the retailer warranty period? Can they repair it? Thanks!Please see my answer to number 1.

the buzz is normal.

The number of actual reported buzzing panels is miniscule.

Well? Which is it? :confused:

All PDPs buzz. Some louder than others. It is the nature of how plasma works. I've already posted why Pioneer models would buzz louder than, say, Samsung. This additional panel buzz has been with Pioneer displays since the bonded color filter was introduced (5G models). It's not a "new" issue.

Please see my answer to number 1.

Please see my answer to number 1.

Q2 and Q3 aren't answered. Do people ever get non buzzing panels? Do some buzz worse than others? Is it uniform for every panel produced?

I have a retailer who said if I wasn't happy (and I specifically listed a buzzing panel as a possible reason I wouldn't be happy, knowing the 8G history) he would replace it.

Also when you say "The number of actual reported buzzing panels is miniscule." Does that mean most panels don't buzz? Or the buzzing isn't pronounced? or that most people don't bother to report it? or that most people don't notice it? Will any Kuro not buzz at all this year? .....the signature series even??

Hahaha,

Lets add Pioneer "dude" to the list.

What is it with you.....Do you consider it your mission to create a small group that meets your approval ?? You spend most of your time trying to sabatoge other Forum members and diminish their value. I do not see you listed anywhere that gives you ultimate authority in determining who's right and who's wrong . Maybe you could compare your credentials with the members you would like to have deleted.

Maybe you could...

Maybe you could keep the personal messages to PM.

Well? Which is it? :confused:The reported excessive buzzing.

Q2 and Q3 aren't answered. Do people ever get non buzzing panels? Do some buzz worse than others? Is it uniform for every panel produced?I did answer all three of your questions. There isn't a PDP in the world that does not have a buzz. As I've said before, it's how plasma works.

The reported excessive buzzing.

You both say it's normal for buzzing AND that the reports of it are "miniscule".

So if it's so miniscule but it's uniform across the board in all panels. Either people are too lazy to report it, it's not noticed by most people, people don't know how to report it, or it doesn't exist in the majority of panels.

Which is it?

(or how to you reconcile buzzing being normal but barely reported??)

AND will the Signature series have the same problem? I guess there are some things Super Grade A glass and hand crafting can't fix. :P

You both say it's normal for buzzing AND that the reports of it are "miniscule".

So if it's so miniscule but it's uniform across the board in all panels. Either people are too lazy to report it, it's not noticed by most people, people don't know how to report it, or it doesn't exist in the majority of panels.

Which is it?

(or how to you reconcile buzzing being normal but barely reported??)
Oh for heaven's sake...let it go already. This thread is certainly not the place to do verbal sparring in order to satisfy your petty intellectual machismo.

D-Nice...don't take the bait.

You both say it's normal for buzzing AND that the reports of it are "miniscule".

So if it's so miniscule but it's uniform across the board in all panels. Either people are too lazy to report it, it's not noticed by most people, people don't know how to report it, or it doesn't exist in the majority of panels.

Which is it?

(or how to you reconcile buzzing being normal but barely reported??)Why is it so hard for you to grasp what I posted? ALL plasmas buzz. Some louder than others. Speaking specifically of Pioneer, their plasmas buzz louder than others due to their design. There have been reports of excessive buzzing on AVS per the buzzing poll.....key word is excessive. That excessive buzzing is miniscule.

D-Nice...don't take the bait.It's ok. However, I'm not posting anything further on buzzing as it has been covered in depth per other threads.

It's ok. However, I'm not posting anything further on buzzing as it has been covered in depth per other threads.

LOL Why get so defensive. You didn't use the word 'excessive'. I'm not baiting anyone. I'm just asking for clarification on the matter. The nuance between EXCESSIVE and regular buzzing was not explained in your original posts and again I am surprised at how when someone asks questions suddenly it's baiting and time to get defensive.

Fine, don't answer questions about buzzing in the future. That's not going to help newcomers get new information. I'm sure you've said something similar in the past and I've only recently joined the forums as a participating member to be able to interact and discuss these issues, so I for one, am glad you took the time to answer my questions which I don't think were offensive for flippant. They are pretty pertinent to a consumers enjoyment and satisfaction, and I don't understand you or the guy above you's interpretation of questions surrounding negative features of a panel as an assault upon Pioneer or yourselves. There's nothing to fear from the free exchange and discussion of information and ideas. And if these new panels are coming out, and if this is a negative feature about them and you have information to share then let's have it shared, not just the sugary sweet things about this panel.

It seems to me this is just a miscommunication / misunderstanding about the nature of the buzzing. Who would want to have a HT setup with a TV that sounded like a fire alarm?

D-Nice, I presume that buzzing deemed 'EXCESSIVE' would be covered by warranty? Or at least if you had an 'EXCESSIVE' buzzing panel, you might get one with 'normative' buzzing if you returned it for exchange?

That's all I'm trying to get at, is useful information about what consumers should expect in terms of a fully functioning and non-defective set.

'...Hey watch out, don't take all that bait!!' :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So if it's so miniscule but it's uniform across the board in all panels. Either people are too lazy to report it, it's not noticed by most people, people don't know how to report it, or it doesn't exist in the majority of panels.



People perceive things differently. One person's ear may not focus on the buzz so much when the sound is loud enough on their TV. Others are more anal about it.

You both say it's normal for buzzing AND that the reports of it are "miniscule".

So if it's so miniscule but it's uniform across the board in all panels. Either people are too lazy to report it, it's not noticed by most people, people don't know how to report it, or it doesn't exist in the majority of panels.

Which is it?

(or how to you reconcile buzzing being normal but barely reported??)

AND will the Signature series have the same problem? I guess there are some things Super Grade A glass and hand crafting can't fix. :P

You're in the wrong thread. There's been several "plasma buzz" threads going on AVS Forum for a long time and it's packed full of posts for you to satisfy your curiosity. Please feel free to read & post on those ongoing buzz threads, and please stop trying to derail this one.

No Signature series panels have entered our system yet. I'm on the lookout for them.
Still no dates on 111's or 151's either, but are in the system..(South Jersey).

You're in the wrong thread. There's been several "plasma buzz" threads going on AVS Forum for a long time and it's packed full of posts for you to satisfy your curiosity. Please feel free to read & post on those ongoing buzz threads, and please stop trying to derail this one.

Boy, I'm not trying to derail anything. This was a pretty simple consumer information question about what level of buzzing to expect from the new sets. It's not OT, and hardly the derailing posts we have seen on previous pages. but thanks for your valuable contribution. :rolleyes:

Hi Guys, Did'nt see too many posts from Robert yesterday. I hope he did'nt have too many Magaritas:D

Waiting for more reports from you Robert. More pictures will be awesome :).
Any confirmation on dates??

The buzz from the actual panel is inherent to the lack of an additional front glass covering (replaced by the bonded color filter) and cell firing technique. Panel buzz is NOT going anywhere. Pioneer has a notice within the documentation that comes with the Kuros (it’s actually taped to the front of the PDP) regarding panel buzz.

The number of actual reported buzzing panels is miniscule per Pioneer's investigations.



On the other hand, just because the reports to Pioneer are minimal (# / sets sold) doesn't mean the problem as you described doesn't exist on every set. Any business, tracking field complaints, has the good sense to realize the full scope of a problem is not simply limited to those calling in a defect.

Many as myself probably filed a complaint, had a service rep come to their house, and had their file closed because the buzz was determined to be nothing unusual. As a matter of fact, there are very few reports of Pioneer acknowleding the problem to the extent they replaced a set under warranty. That was the extent of Pioneer's investigations in my case.

My effort consisted of taking my 150 back to Tweeter and setting it up side-by-side with two other units only to hear the same buzz in all three. Big time KUDOS to Tweeter for accommodating me. I asked that the Buzz Poll thread be started so I could I could determine whether others had a similiar problem.

There is a tremendous amount of diversity expressed in the Pio Buzz Poll thread but the poll itself is the best effort we have to capture the differing experiences. Not scientific, but a hell of a lot better than a collection of anecdotal posts.

The poll has consistently showed that 4% of respondents returned their units because of the buzz, another 20% have found the buzz annoying, and another 13% can hear the buzz from normal seating distances but are not annoyed with it. Those percentages have remained virtually unchanged as the poll numbers have gone from 50 to nearly 900 respondants.

My personal take is that frequency of the buzz has been underreported (as every set has the design characteristics you noted above but individual users can't hear it because of different home setups, ambient noise, ears) while the severity of the buzz has been overblown (as it is noticable under about 1% of actual viewing conditions).

Don't get me wrong. I love my Pio and wouldn't want any changes that messed with the pitcure. I wouldn't discourage anyone from considering a Pio because of the buzz. I just don't think that the problem is that severe. You'd be missing out on a great picture. But for those that are bothered by it - move on.

No Signature series panels have entered our system yet. I'm on the lookout for them.
Still no dates on 111's or 151's either, but are in the system..(South Jersey).I highly doubt you will see anything in Tweeter's database regarding the Signature series until July.

Tweeter's 111FD/151FD delivery dates will be in the July timeframe...not June ;)

Boy, I'm not trying to derail anything. This was a pretty simple consumer information question about what level of buzzing to expect from the new sets. It's not OT, and hardly the derailing posts we have seen on previous pages. but thanks for your valuable contribution. :rolleyes:

Sneer, please tell us how anyone can evaluate a "plasma buzz" on a display that is not even in the stores yet?

I highly doubt you will see anything in Tweeter's database regarding the Signature series until July.

Tweeter's 111FD/151FD delivery dates will be in the July timeframe...not June ;)

Does the July time frame go for BB Magnolia's as well?

Does the July time frame go for BB Magnolia's as well?Magnolia should be one of the first to get them.

The poll has consistently showed that 4% of respondants returned their units because of the buzz, another 20% have found the buzz annoying, and another 13% can hear the buzz from normal seating distances but are OK with it. Those percentages have remained virtually unchanged as the poll numbers have gone from 50 to nearly 900 respondants.

My personal take is that frequency of the buzz has been underreported (as every set has the design characteristics you noted above but individual users can't hear it because of different home setups, ambient noise, ears) while the severity of the buzz has been overblown (as it is noticable under about 1% of actual viewing conditions).

Hi Highheater, thanks for your post and insights into this issue. So after taking the set back to tweeter and finding side by side they all buzzed you just took your original set home right? Did you see any reports of someone returning a buzzing set and getting back one which buzzed less noticeably? Or the opposite?

Do you have a link to the original poll?

D-Nice, a bit off-topic for this thread, but I posted this question (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13830787#post13830787) to you a few days back in the Settings/Issues thread. If you have the time, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

Magnolia should be one of the first to get them.

TERRIFIC THANKS!

Fine, don't answer questions about buzzing in the future. That's not going to help newcomers get new information.


There is an entire thread (Pioneer 8G Kuro Buzz Poll) committed to discussing the buzz issue that shouldn't be too hard to find under the collection of normal threads. I'd suggest you read some of the material there as there is quite a diversity of opinion on the subject. Read about the experiences of others and perhaps you could make your own conclusions.

With respect to the 9Gs, D-Nice has offered all of the information he currently has available.

The 9 Gs will have

1. a new power supply
2. same single glass design
3. same firing sequence

So we owe him our thanks.

Panoneer, just look. That thread is usually on the 1st page. Now it's in the top third of the first page. You can't miss it.

Please stop spreading mis-information. Pioneer WILL NOT assemble PDPs for the US in China or Mexico.

Thanks for standing strong on this information.

If there's additional information you are looking for, let me know and I can see what I can find out or will pass to Robert to find out.

New power supplies in 9G
Elite Glass Grade "A" and Signature Series the best of the Grade "A" Glass
Elite will have a different color filter then then non-elite
Signature Series - no speakers, no audio in/out, no stand, no media receiver, thinner depth (stand can be purchased)
Firmware enhancements related to calibration - calibration via IP, special calibration screens, more to come
August for 60" Sig Series
Sept for 50" Sig Series
Pricing is currently the same, but Engineering thinks it's worth more.
No Cable-Card
All Elites tested to a higher QA standard

People wonder why guys like D-nice and others semi-retire..

What would the internet be without some of these characters though.... oh a better place. :)

Russ, I continue to struggle with the concept of Grade A glass vs. the best of Grade A glass. Bear with my hypothetical numbers to show my point:
If in the past, the top 5% of all glass went into the elite and now the top 2% will go into the Signature, doesn't that mean that the very best glass that used to go into the Elite is no longer available to it, meaning some Elite sets will take a hit in quality. Is this difference so miniscule as to be irrelevant? Or am I just not understanding something here?

Also, can you ask your contacts for the final specs on energy usage?

Thanks for filling us in!

For those wondering about the buzz, go to some stores and check for yourself. D-Nice is correct that all plasmas buzz to some extent. I have access to 3 60" Elites and none have what I would call excessive buzzing and none have any at all audible after 3 feet or so with no audio on at all. Seems to me that this is really a none issue. However, check for yourself before you buy. Don't buy one of these babies sight unseen. I never spend this kind of cash sight unseen no matter the reputation of the product.

I would like to know if there are any more inputs on the Signature series?

Russ, I continue to struggle with the concept of Grade A glass vs. the best of Grade A glass. Bear with my hypothetical numbers to show my point:
If in the past, the top 5% of all glass went into the elite and now the top 2% will go into the Signature, doesn't that mean that the very best glass that used to go into the Elite is no longer available to it, meaning some Elite sets will take a hit in quality. Is this difference so miniscule as to be irrelevant? Or am I just not understanding something here?

+1, what she said. ;)

Sorry guys and gals, I'm running late to class. Elite will be one month late, so expect to see PRO-111 and PRO151 start to roll out in early August.

Pricing will be announced later today at the road show.

I have photo's but need more time to get them on-line.

-Robert

Russ, I continue to struggle with the concept of Grade A glass vs. the best of Grade A glass. Bear with my hypothetical numbers to show my point:
If in the past, the top 5% of all glass went into the elite and now the top 2% will go into the Signature, doesn't that mean that the very best glass that used to go into the Elite is no longer available to it, meaning some Elite sets will take a hit in quality. Is this difference so miniscule as to be irrelevant? Or am I just not understanding something here?

Also, can you ask your contacts for the final specs on energy usage?

Thanks for filling us in!

I'm sort of curious myself about what specific quality factors are considered in rating and then sorting the glass.

Elite will be one month late, so expect to see PRO-111 and PRO151 start to roll out in early August.

BOOO-URNS! The 2008 models won't 'start' to be available until there are 3-4 months until 2009... That sucks. :(

I'm sort of curious myself about what specific quality factors are considered in rating and then sorting the glass.I'm sorry but detailed information regarding grades will never be posted on an open internet forum for any manufaturer. Just keep in mind that ALL manufacturers grade glass.

Elite will be one month late, so expect to see PRO-111 and PRO151 start to roll out in early August.-Robert
:eek: Arrghhh...not what we wanted to hear, Robert. Does this mean the signature series will be pushed back as well? Sept/Oct?

2 types of buzz on Pioneer displays. One was from the power supply and the other was from the panel itself. The 9G Kuros, and some of the later batches of 8G Kuros, have new power supplies. I posted this info about 1.5 weeks ago. The buzz from the actual panel is inherent to the lack of an additional front glass covering (replaced by the bonded color filter) and cell firing technique. Panel buzz is NOT going anywhere. Pioneer has a notice within the documentation that comes with the Kuros (it’s actually taped to the front of the PDP) regarding panel buzz.


Despite the contention in the thread I'm glad to see it resulted in this being reposted since I wasn't aware of it. Thread research can take a lot of time so it's nice to have key information reposted sometimes. If everyone in these threads were simply Pioneer cheerleaders that wouldn't serve consumers as a well as having a few detractors chime in IMO ;)

I wondered about the buzz issue in considering kuro against Panasonic / Samsung. As an impending Pioneer PDP purchaser I find it helpful to know. Thx.

Sorry guys and gals, I'm running late to class. Elite will be one month late, so expect to see PRO-111 and PRO151 start to roll out in early August.

Pricing will be announced later today at the road show.

I have photo's but need more time to get them on-line.

-Robert

Last year some came a little earlier so lets hope this happens again. Robert the pricing has been announced through the grape vine ;)

3) Is buzzing something Pioneer covers under its warranty if it develops after the retailer warranty period? Can they repair it? Thanks!

My 5070 buzzed so bad, I put in a service call. I got routed through to a local repair center, never even spoke to anyone from Pio. Pioneer made packs available that the service techs use to try to reduce (not fix) the buzz. First they cover the bead strips on the driver boards living on each side of the panel in special electrical caulk like silicone, and then they cover air vents on the rear adjacent to these with black strips. If you have a Pio, you can look on the back near the ends. They're quite obviously extra plastic strips stuck on, if you have them.

According to the engineers, the buzzing is variable between the same model, and only in the worse cases would Pio replace the driver boards. They also stated that the muffling exercise they performed on my panel was how Pio were sending them out at the time. So I must have got an early build.

I was hoping two generations later this will be vastly improved. So I'll be waiting for the early adopters to report findings.