im uneducated avs'er which is the reason why im here otherwise i'd get the best choice, its rather simple from my view points

1080p is more expensive which is more resolution....

then again i might achive higher PQ because the kuro adjustments?

again this the only view point i can tell. i would most defitanly get it calibrated once umr would come but in your stand point which should i do? the elite 720p is cheaperPicture adjustment controls trump resolution in my book.

Has anybody seen one of the 9G panels yet? I'm still debating between the Pioneer 6020 and the Panny 58pz800u. I know I'll have to wait longer for the Panny, but at least some of their smaller 800 series tvs are out to look at.

While you are sure to pay more for a signature series PDP, I doubt you will 'see' any tangible benefit for the ROI (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp).

The whole thing just seems like a swan song for Pioneer glass fans who will no longer get Pioneer built glass. "Get the last and best Pioneer glass that will ever be made with your 9G". At a yet to be disclosed price of course.

The way Robert explains it, it would seem as if the bulk of the features of the Signature line may depend on how the user exploits them to his/her full benefit. Not just calibration but all the other extras and applications that may be possible. Basically, the full benefit of owning one of these may not be that tangible to the average user. It then becomes a prestige thing and nothing more.

I don't know about you but I am ready to hear the pricing info already.

Has anybody seen one of the 9G panels yet? I'm still debating between the Pioneer 6020 and the Panny 58pz800u. I know I'll have to wait longer for the Panny, but at least some of their smaller 800 series tvs are out to look at.

Yes somebody here in Sweden.

(Google translation )

I ordered a 5090H yesterday after having seen it live.
As I said to myself many times before, it can not be better now .........
In show room hanging 508XD, PZ85 and one Samsung LCD, and the judgement was rather pale by G9 (LX6090)

Now, it will be a long wait .................

http://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=186361&st=420&p=1914622&#entry1914622

Wow I had the same feeling reading your post!... :rolleyes:

:) :) :)

so its safe to say that we wont be getting any new info until months from now? man has this been a werid thread that i dont know how it survied this long before a mod closes it.

but if the tour is over then how come robert is failing to give pictures??? didnt he state earlier that he would do so and give mre info?

also d-nice this should be easy for you, would you get a PRO-1150 for under $2400 or a 5010FD for 2999?

1. Very limited allocations of Pioneer panels will begin showing up in store early July, followed in about 3 weeks by Elite PRO-111 and PRO151s.

2. Sorry my mini USB - USB cable is defective so I can't transfer my photo's from the hotel. I'll be home very very late this evening and if I can stay awake long enough I'll put some very cool shots on my site so everyone can see.

3. At this moment I would chose the PRO-1150 over the PDP-5010 as the price/performance ratio favors the 768 resolution Elite.

-Robert

hey i just finish reading this whole thread so is their any news regarding robert? is the pioneer tour thing still going on? d-nice do you have any more info that you can release? and if robert is back shouldnt he be posting pictures or more info?

I do post tid-bits as I can, this has been a very exhausting past few days. Some great photo's will be up on my site no later than tomorrow morning.

-Robert

Does anyone have more information on the new external color sensor on the Elites? Is this a sensor that would be placed at the viewing position and only used during setup or is this somehow used during normal viewing? What specifically is controlled with use of this sensor?

The signature series looks interesting to me but I would place the panel on a stand. Does anyone have an idea what the price of the stand will be? Also, are these integrator tools available to the general public? Will there be an SDK available or is this simply documentation.

The sensor is very cool and is very advanced from the sensors used by Pioneer or any other manufacturer in the past. The new intelligent sensor system Pioneer integrated into the 9G panels looks at the room lighting and reflected colors as well as the actual content on the screen to make the best possible adjustments. For example if you are watching sports the contrast ratio is increased and if it's golf the greens will be enhanced with more detail visible. For swimming events the blue water looks better with the sensor engaged.

When watching a movie the contrast ratio is lowered for a more detailed image. Of course, the image sensor can be shut off if the user does not want these features automatically adjusted for day/night and content correctons.

-Robert

Wow I had the same feeling reading your post!... :rolleyes:

To each his own....If you enjoyed the last five pages of "info", all the more power to you. I know I would rather discuss more technical issues with the 9g's, rather than have people ask if they should buy an 8g because they think the glass quality is better! My point was simple, I never heard anybody being concerned with glass quality (elite vs. non-elite) before the statements about the sig series. Why is it now such a major concern? It's a non issue and is honestly poor choice of words by pioneer, for the simple reason that it gets people like you thinking too much (I know it hurts)

Robert,

How about the improved Elite color filter, did it really enhance the contrast in a brighter enviroment vs the 8g and does it give the screen a darker appearance than the 8g when powered off?

Here is my Question Robert That I am struggling with as I make my first HDTV buy, (which will be a pioneer. Do I go now with the Pro 1150 a G8 768res, or wait a few months and by a new Kuro G9 5020 - 1080p? My guess is the new 5020 will be cost few hundred more, but be a the new 9G model and 1080p. Where as I could save a few $$$ and get a this years G8 Elite 768p.

THe Reseaon is this is the top of my price range. One other thing I am new to HDTV coming from a 32" Sony, I guess anyone would be great, lol. What is your thoughts on this? If any one else has a thought I would be greatful.

Pepin,

Any further discussion on the other forum regarding Canadian MSRP's or is there any chance of probing the senior rep any more? I hate to be a skeptic, but given the modification to the press release yesterday regarding Canadian pricing, I am not holding out much hope that this year will be all that different from last. For example, I am anticipating Elite pricing in Canada will see a similar MSRP reduction as seen in the US, but I doubt that they will match US MSRP's. This will still leave a gross price discrepancy.

Further to all of this, an Alberta dealer indicated that the Canadian version of the Roadshow takes place on or about May 28th. Is it possible that we would need to wait until then to hear anything official on pricing? Can't see why though, as MSRP's were well known in the US prior to the Roadshow. Any thoughts.

-tulsah

To each his own....If you enjoyed the last five pages of "info", all the more power to you. I know I would rather discuss more technical issues with the 9g's, rather than have people ask if they should buy an 8g because they think the glass quality is better! My point was simple, I never heard anybody being concerned with glass quality (elite vs. non-elite) before the statements about the sig series. Why is it now such a major concern? It's a non issue and is honestly poor choice of words by pioneer, for the simple reason that it gets people like you thinking too much (I know it hurts)

...there's that feeling again :rolleyes: For a guy who criticizes wasted space you sure create a lot of it.

so its safe to say that we wont be getting any new info until months from now? man has this been a werid thread that i dont know how it survied this long before a mod closes it.

but if the tour is over then how come robert is failing to give pictures??? didnt he state earlier that he would do so and give mre info?

also d-nice this should be easy for you, would you get a PRO-1150 for under $2400 or a 5010FD for 2999?

Well it might not be a weird thread if not for people asking poorly phrased questions, that should have been posted in another thread, and whose answers could have been found with the slightest use of the search function.

Any Pio you are likely to get will be better than the Panny 42PX75 you already own based on my personal experience (I own the Panny).

I am sure D-Nice has much better things to do than to provide a detailed cost analysis of the PRO-1150 compared to the 5010. For Gods sake make some judgements yourself.

Sorry if this seems harsh but this entire line of questioning has been inappropriate for this thread - and then the guy states his surprise the thread hasn't been closed down.

GEEESH.

Robert,

How about the improved Elite color filter, did it really enhance the contrast in a brighter enviroment vs the 8g and does it give the screen a darker appearance than the 8g when powered off?

Yes we can see a slightly better contrast ratio and slightly darker backs on the Elite panels.

-Robert

Here is my Question Robert That I am struggling with as I make my first HDTV buy, (which will be a pioneer. Do I go now with the Pro 1150 a G8 768res, or wait a few months and by a new Kuro G9 5020 - 1080p? My guess is the new 5020 will be cost few hundred more, but be a the new 9G model and 1080p. Where as I could save a few $$$ and get a this years G8 Elite 768p.

The reseaon is this is the top of my price range. One other thing I am new to HDTV coming from a 32" Sony, I guess anyone would be great, lol. What is your thoughts on this? If any one else has a thought I would be greatful.

Tough question, but in this particular situation I would go for the 5020.

-Robert

The Elite PRO-141FD is a rocket ship. Pioneer has put the best of what we know into this product. Now that it is out, watch as the competition tries to catch up.

Josh

:D

Most missed who this post was from (... or they are still several pages back)...


.

Robert and D-Nice are here out of their own discretion. Some people around here feel they are obligated to guide them and give them info with a consecutive line of questioning that for the most part is full of anxiety or people trying to avoid buyer's regret. I think it is a little bit more complicated than that and a lot of reading is required on past threads to weight all options.

A few folks are caught up on the recent news and refuse to do some research on their own. Personally, I would do the research because at the end is not D-Nice's $5000+ for an Elite. It's yours.

Hey Alex Invision Is There A Reason Why The Toll Free Numer Or Local Number On Ur Website Doesnt Work It Says Out Of Serv.... I Wanted Pre Orderign Prices For The 5020

Does any one know the width of the 141?

Hey Alex Invision Is There A Reason Why The Toll Free Numer Or Local Number On Ur Website Doesnt Work It Says Out Of Serv.... I Wanted Pre Orderign Prices For The 5020

Sounds like it's being forwarded to another number. Ouch, that's got to hurt potential buyers' confidence!

The whole thing just seems like a swan song for Pioneer glass fans who will no longer get Pioneer built glass. "Get the last and best Pioneer glass that will ever be made with your 9G". At a yet to be disclosed price of course.Agreed.The way Robert explains it, it would seem as if the bulk of the features of the Signature line may depend on how the user exploits them to his/her full benefit. Not just calibration but all the other extras and applications that may be possible. Basically, the full benefit of owning one of these may not be that tangible to the average user. It then becomes a prestige thing and nothing more.Drop a feature, CableCARD; add a feature... no support for tru2way (http://www.tru2way.com/). :mad:

As expected the owners of a 'signature series' PDP will not only pay a hefty price for the AVSF bragging rights during the next year... but will also have an opportunity to permanently front-end their $$$$ :eek: TV with a cable provider's crappy STB. :rolleyes:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/sa8300.JPG

Pepin,

Any further discussion on the other forum regarding Canadian MSRP's or is there any chance of probing the senior rep any more? I hate to be a skeptic, but given the modification to the press release yesterday regarding Canadian pricing, I am not holding out much hope that this year will be all that different from last. For example, I am anticipating Elite pricing in Canada will see a similar MSRP reduction as seen in the US, but I doubt that they will match US MSRP's. This will still leave a gross price discrepancy.

Tulsah,

First, I'm no D-NICE, russwong or Robert and have absolutely no insider information. I will poke the senior rep on the other forum but his answers are not coming as quickly as I would like. I, too, am a bit disappointed by the press release being modified after it's release. It does not reflect much respect to the Canadian consumers, but it's just IMHO. If I manage to get an answer, I will post it here subito. :)


Further to all of this, an Alberta dealer indicated that the Canadian version of the Roadshow takes place on or about May 28th. Is it possible that we would need to wait until then to hear anything official on pricing? Can't see why though, as MSRP's were well known in the US prior to the Roadshow. Any thoughts.

-tulsah

See! I told you I had no insider info. I did not even know there was a Canadian Roadshow!

Pepin

As expected the owners of a 'signature series' PDP will not only pay a hefty price for the AVSF bragging rights during the next year... but will also have an opportunity to permanently front-end their $$$$ :eek: TV with a cable provider's crappy STB. :rolleyes:The Cisco 8500 series is coming ;)

No Elite dealers within 75 miles of me. I called the closest 3 and NONE knew a Pro 151FD was coming out. :mad:

One said he heard that the '07 model was actually better than a Samsung. Good to know :o

Pepin, what was changed on the Canadian press release??? I have pricing in my BB system already for the 5020 and 6020 that is the same as the MSRPs listed in the Canadian and American press releases.

Pepin, what was changed on the Canadian press release??? I have pricing in my BB system already for the 5020 and 6020 that is the same as the MSRPs listed in the Canadian and American press releases.

I believe the CDN Elite pricing was also the same as the US MSRP in the press release, but then that has been taken down and replaced w/TBD. Hopefully the non-Elite prices stay the same. The fact that they are in your system at par is a good sign.

Are the 5020s now coming out in July? I thought it would be 2/3rd week of June ?

An outboard scaler would be absolutely worthless with the Elites and Signature series.....Signature series even more.

D_Nice,

I have been struggling with the idea of buying a good upconverter DVD player such as an Oppo and I did not manage to find a real evidence about the pertinence of doing so.

Your statement seems to imply that the electronic within the Elite/Signature would do the job as well if not better. Is this correct?

Were there any "real" comparison performed in the past about the 8G Elite upconversion versus other equipment?

Lastly, any known improvement of upconversion features of the 9G versus 8G (it is indeed stated in the 151 brochure that ASIC Video processing has been Improved, without any more details...)?

Many thanks,

Pepin

Pepin, what was changed on the Canadian press release??? I have pricing in my BB system already for the 5020 and 6020 that is the same as the MSRPs listed in the Canadian and American press releases.

Pricing for the Elite only. It has been changed from a US-like MSRP to TBA. You can look for yourself on Pioneer Canada website. There is a specific press release for the Elite/Signature series.

The 5020 and 6020 pricing has not changed, as you are stating.

Does any one know the width of the 141?

Exactly the same as the PRO-151 without speakers, which is also the same as the PDP-6020, 57 11/16" wide.

-Robert

Robert -

Could you give a brief description of the new user interface on the new Plasmas?

Robert -

Could you give a brief discription of the new user interface on the new Plasmas?
If you have a HD DVD player, it looks like the black "skin" you could select in the setup menu.

D_Nice,

I have been struggling with the idea of buying a good upconverter DVD player such as an Oppo and I did not manage to find a real evidence about the pertinence of doing so.

Your statement seems to imply that the electronic within the Elite/Signature would do the job as well if not better. Is this correct?Just get the Oppo 980, set it to 480i output, and let the panel do everything.

Were there any "real" comparison performed in the past about the 8G Elite upconversion versus other equipment?Not sure, but for my 1150, 480i over HDMI produces the best results.

Lastly, any known improvement of upconversion features of the 9G versus 8G (it is indeed stated in the 151 brochure that ASIC Video processing has been Improved, without any more details...)?

Many thanks,

PepinYou will have to wait and see :)

Please note that Invision Displays phone lines are temporarily out of service. If you need to contact us please call 360-471-2084 and/or 206-999-0281. Should be up and running shortly. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Deb

Has anybody seen one of the 9G panels yet? I'm still debating between the Pioneer 6020 and the Panny 58pz800u. I know I'll have to wait longer for the Panny, but at least some of their smaller 800 series tvs are out to look at.

I haven't seen the 9G's, but I have seen an 800u.
In my opinion it can't stand up to the 8g's , so it probably has no shot against the 9g's.

Agreed.Drop a feature, CableCARD; add a feature... no support for tru2way (http://www.tru2way.com/). :mad:

As expected the owners of a 'signature series' PDP will not only pay a hefty price for the AVSF bragging rights during the next year... but will also have an opportunity to permanently front-end their $$$$ :eek: TV with a cable provider's crappy STB. :rolleyes:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/sa8300.JPG


Mine looks nothing like(much better) that and ofcourse you can always locate your gear away from your display which you already know.
I wish we could get 'all' channels OTA, but until then we don't have much choice.

Thank you - Invision's phones are going strong - thanks for the calls!!!
Reminder: we have pricing and are taking pre-orders for the 5020 & 6020. First shipments will be VERY limited!

Deb

The color sensor is for operation, not setup. As we all know, a color meter should be used during calibration. The Color sensor on Pioneer's 9G Elite TV is not in any way designed for use in the calibration process.

Josh

I think he knows what he's talking about. ;)

Can you fill in some info about the calibration features in the Sig Series? Robert touched on them briefly regarding the the blue screen and such.

The color sensor is for operation, not setup. As we all know, a color meter should be used during calibration. The Color sensor on Pioneer's 9G Elite TV is not in any way designed for use in the calibration process.

Josh

The whole thing just seems like a swan song for Pioneer glass fans who will no longer get Pioneer built glass. "Get the last and best Pioneer glass that will ever be made with your 9G". At a yet to be disclosed price of course.

The way Robert explains it, it would seem as if the bulk of the features of the Signature line may depend on how the user exploits them to his/her full benefit. Not just calibration but all the other extras and applications that may be possible. Basically, the full benefit of owning one of these may not be that tangible to the average user. It then becomes a prestige thing and nothing more.

I don't know about you but I am ready to hear the pricing info already.
For an average end user like yourself, I would recomend taking a look at Pioneer's new 9G Kuro line of TVs and leave the monitor for the dealers, systems intergraters and power users who have a need to exploite the unique features "to his/her full benefit".

1. Very limited allocations of Pioneer panels will begin showing up in store early July, followed in about 3 weeks by Elite PRO-111 and PRO151s.

Have they given you an idea of when we might be seeing the Signature 141's start showing up? I believe you had mentioned a couple of days ago that August was the target date, but as you've said the Elites were pushed back a month, I'm wondering if you've been told anything new on the Signature series?

BTW, thanks for the continued updates, Robert. I know from experience how draining these types of events can be...so it's been very nice of you to fire off a post or two when you have a moment.

Pepin, what was changed on the Canadian press release??? I have pricing in my BB system already for the 5020 and 6020 that is the same as the MSRPs listed in the Canadian and American press releases.
That's good enough for me! :)

I think I'm going non-elite this time round and saving for a {possible} 10g next
year! It'll likely be a 5020, but if I can get a deal on a 6020, I'll go for that. Damn,
to go from a Pro-150FD to a 5020.... I must be nuts! Ahh, but next year the
5020 will be in the bedroom and a 10g will be my main TV. ;)

If you have not yet received a pm back from me I apologize. You will be getting it very shortly. Just got a little overloaded but all is good now.

reio-ta yes you are right sorry my english is not so great bottom line is : if the quality control or the panel switching changes based on vashti then does the pro-1150 have the perfect panel? if so is it better to buy a PRO-1150FD vs a new 9g kuro? my main course of action was to get bes PQ for the lowest price which lead me to the 42PX75u but then i saw that i can aquire the PRO-1150 for under $2400

Gus, I have no real information. I'm only guessing. But my guess is that all of the improvements of the 9th generation would FAR outweigh the minimal change in going from one of the best one or two pieces of glass out of 100 to one of the 5 best pieces of glasses out of 100. I'd be shocked if the 9th generation elite would not be a better set than the 1150. I certainly would pick a 9th generation elite over the 1150.

As for your English, I promise you your English is better than my version of whatever your first language is. I am continually in awe of all the non-native English speakers who post here.

Wow Im Not Going To State Prices But The Street Prices Of The Pioneer 5020 Is Lower Than I Expected...from Forum Sponser

Ok I Have A Serious Question.. I Have Seen The 8g Pioneer Elite At Tweeter And Each Time Im Blown Away And I Say To Myself That Is The Most Beautifull Picture.. Do You Guys Think That The 5020 9g Non Elite Panel Will It Be Equal,better Or Worse Than Last Years Elite Model.. By The Way Sorry For The Caps My Caps Button Is Broken..

I apologize in advance for this question because I am sure that it has been asked before. I just did not find the answer when I did a search.

What is the difference between the Pioneer Kuro and Elite Kuro? There seems to be about a $1000 difference between the two and I was wondering whether the increased price for the Elite bought something that much better.

Thanks for helping a newbie to plasma TV's.

Cal68

We are thinking of purchasing a 6010 from a forum sponsor even though it costs a little more than a 6020, largely because the 6010 has a cable card slot and we don't want to fuss with a set-top box. We are not as discerning of gradations in image quality and certainly not as knowledgeable as most of you (though I have been reading a lot- for which I thank you). Any comments on the trade-off (cablecard vs somewhat improved image) would be appreciated.

Wow Im Not Going To State Prices But The Street Prices Of The Pioneer 5020 Is Lower Than I Expected...from Forum Sponser

We're all "over the top" on 5020 and 6020 opportunities! :)

It's no the grade of glass that really separates the Elites from the non-Elites. It's the software driving that glass.

I think you would be happy with either the Elite or Signature series. Personally I'm getting the regular Elite. The additional features of the Signature series are a great bonus, however, I'm personally satisfied with what I can get out of the regular Elites :)

Thanks D-Nice. That's exactly what I was hoping for. I may wait for more information on the Signature before I order. But my instinct is most of what it has, I don't need. The real lure was the hand picked parts. And I'd sure rather buy sooner than later. (Can I even say that with a straight face after my 4-5 year shopping period?)

Do you worry at all about buying first panels? I know last year there were a few problems that were corrected later in the year. I don't want my impatience to make me take silly risks on a panel I plan to keep for at least ten years. But I'd love to get this set in July/early August and have it broken in before the Olympics.

I apologize in advance for this question because I am sure that it has been asked before. I just did not find the answer when I did a search.

What is the difference between the Pioneer Kuro and Elite Kuro? There seems to be about a $1000 difference between the two and I was wondering whether the increased price for the Elite bought something that much better.

Thanks for helping a newbie to plasma TV's.

Cal68Get the cut sheets from the first post of this thread. They have all the info you need.

Do you worry at all about buying first panels? I know last year there were a few problems that were corrected later in the year.Nope. My Elite has May 2007 glass with a June 2007 build date. Zero issues.

Ok I Have A Serious Question.. I Have Seen The 8g Pioneer Elite At Tweeter And Each Time Im Blown Away And I Say To Myself That Is The Most Beautifull Picture.. Do You Guys Think That The 5020 9g Non Elite Panel Will It Be Equal,better Or Worse Than Last Years Elite Model.. By The Way Sorry For The Caps My Caps Button Is Broken..

You wont be able to tweak the 5020FD as much but the PQ will be close.

I apologize in advance for this question because I am sure that it has been asked before. I just did not find the answer when I did a search.

What is the difference between the Pioneer Kuro and Elite Kuro? There seems to be about a $1000 difference between the two and I was wondering whether the increased price for the Elite bought something that much better.

Thanks for helping a newbie to plasma TV's.

Cal68

What does the Elite have over the non-elites?
*2 year warranty instead of 1
- Improved ››Elite Color Filter for enhanced contrast in bright environments
- ISFccc Calibration Ready for professional customization of plasma ››picture according to personal preferences for contrast, tint, color as well as room conditions for both day and nighttime viewing. Includes:
Independent Gamma Control (R / G / B) for heightened color ––calibration
- Remote Control – Illuminated / Preset Mode / Learning Mode
- A/V Selection Memory – 10 options for viewing preferences:
››Optimum / Performance / Sports / Movie / PURE / Game / Standard / ISF-Day / ISF-Night / ISF-Auto (PC input: only Standard)
- Intelligent Mode (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
- Picture Detail Settings* – DRE Picture (Off / High / Mid / Low), ››Black Level (Off / On), ACL (Off / On), Enhancer Mode (1 / 2 / 3), Gamma (1 / 2 / 3)
- Color Temperature Adjustment – 5 settings (High / Mid-High / ››Mid / Mid-Low / Low)
- Color Temperature Manual Adjustment ››
- Color Management››
- Color Space (1 / 2)››
-3 DYC (Off / High / Mid / Low)››
- I-P Mode (1 / 2 / 3)
- IR Repeater

Ok I Have A Serious Question.. I Have Seen The 8g Pioneer Elite At Tweeter And Each Time Im Blown Away And I Say To Myself That Is The Most Beautifull Picture.. Do You Guys Think That The 5020 9g Non Elite Panel Will It Be Equal,better Or Worse Than Last Years Elite Model.. By The Way Sorry For The Caps My Caps Button Is Broken..

I had the exact same question...was at Tweeter a few weeks ago and was blown away by the 8g Elite. I'm stretching to afford the 6020 and really can't go any more to afford the 60" Elite.

You wont be able to tweak the 5020FD as much but the PQ will be close.

I guess the big question is how much did Tweeter tweak the Elite display models or are they standard out of box images. I'm sure I'll be more then happy with the 6020 though with my viewing habits...as long as there's no Elite sitting next to it to compare it to.

We are thinking of purchasing a 6010 from a forum sponsor even though it costs a little more than a 6020, largely because the 6010 has a cable card slot and we don't want to fuss with a set-top box.Keep in mind that many who have tried using a cable card have not been happy. It pretty much depends on your local cable company. That's one reason why "one way" cable card slots have been disappearing from a lot of new model HDTV lines.

".. Oh, yes, since we all do it, it must be right. Yeah, I get it and can deal with it by rejecting it with my wallet. Thank you.

Then this would mean you will never buy a plasma made my any company ... ever. Ditto with computers and many, many more of a very broad array of products that are offered in different levels of quality and price. These companies don't do this because they are dishonest or unethical ... they do it to provide different levels of quality. Why is this so hard to understand??

We have Cablevision. Thanks for reply.

Since I have not bought a tv in like 8 years and nothing ever went wrong with it until the entertainment center collapsed last month. How important is a 2 year warrenty over a 1 year? Do plasmas have a high chance of breaking in the first 2 years?

Also do most people get an extended warranty for 5 years or so? Is it necessary? If you believe the extended warranty is needed than I guess the extra money you spend on the elite can go towards saving an year on the warranty.

Am I the only one who has scoured the forum and spec sheets on the differences between the elites and the non-elites, concluded that my poor eyes will be unable to tell the picture quality differences between the 5020 and the 111, but is crazy enough to plunk down the extra grand or so just to get the aesthetic benefits of the side speakers? Also, has anyone answered the question about whether any of the forum sponsors will be allowed to ship elites out of their 250 mile zone? I believe someone said that the answer will be forthcoming on Friday. I may be crazy enough to blow a grand on side speakers, but paying MSRP at a brick and mortar will eat away at my soul.

I guess the big question is how much did Tweeter tweak the Elite display models or are they standard out of box images. I'm sure I'll be more then happy with the 6020 though with my viewing habits...as long as there's no Elite sitting next to it to compare it to.

I doubt they get them pro calibrated in their stores :)

Hi fallenbuddha,

Welcome to the forum.

Am I the only one who has scoured the forum and spec sheets on the differences between the elites and the non-elites, concluded that my poor eyes will be unable to tell the picture quality differences between the 5020 and the 111, but is crazy enough to plunk down the extra grand or so just to get the aesthetic benefits of the side speakers?

If you REALLY don't think you will be able to tell a difference in picture quality, and the speakers are the only thing differentiating the Elites to you, I think it would be crazyhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/crazy.gif to spend the extra dough.

Also, has anyone answered the question about whether any of the forum sponsors will be allowed to ship elites out of their 250 mile zone?

Robert said he was going to find out this week if he can ship Elites nationwide .

Robert said he was going to find out this week if he can ship Elites nationwide .

I hope he can. The more competition the better for us.

Also, does anybody now if any of these authorized dealers online offer 12 month free interest payments? :D

I hope he can. The more competition the better for us.

Also, does anybody now if any of these authorized dealers online offer 12 month free interest payments? :D

You should probably contact the dealers yourself to find out about that.

perhaps invision can chime in and let us know if they do 12 months of no interest... if not just get a credit card that offers this...

You should probably contact the dealers yourself to find out about that.

Correct. I will not post as much non relevant non technical stuff on this thread as even I am having a hard time keeping up, this is the last one I hope :)

You should probably contact the dealers yourself to find out about that.

I will, once I find out that online dealers can ship nationwide, I'll start my research.

I hope Pioneer lift some of the restriction they have. For a company that is on red, these things don't make much sense. I understand the B&M stores probably want some security, but for most of the consumers, the best price will always win. Plus I can save on sales tax too. All adds up in the end.:o

Hi fallenbuddha,

Robert said he was going to find out this week if he can ship Elites nationwide .

Being that Pioneer is still cleaning up the unauthorized dealers on the net, it is most unlikely that they will authorize anyone to sell them nationwide. I know Robert is one of the best, I just don't believe this will happen anytime soon.

Per one of our owners, a former Pioneer employee, just spoke with our Pioneer Rep saying that it will not happen at all, as elite was meant for local value added dealers, not national distribution.

If your Kuro panel is 1080p, wouldn't it be best to output in 1080p from a good upcoverting player like the Oppo??? Not sure why you would want to send 480i into the Kuro. Can someone explain?

If you REALLY don't think you will be able to tell a difference in picture quality, and the speakers are the only thing differentiating the Elites to you, I think it would be crazyhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/crazy.gif to spend the extra dough.



Perhaps the speakers aren't the only thing... There's also the "Elite" label on the panel, announcing my superiority over the unwashed masses. :rolleyes:

Get the cut sheets from the first post of this thread. They have all the info you need.

What does the Elite have over the non-elites?
*2 year warranty instead of 1
- Improved ››Elite Color Filter for enhanced contrast in bright environments
- ISFccc Calibration Ready for professional customization of plasma ››picture according to personal preferences for contrast, tint, color as well as room conditions for both day and nighttime viewing. Includes:
Independent Gamma Control (R / G / B) for heightened color ––calibration
- Remote Control – Illuminated / Preset Mode / Learning Mode
- A/V Selection Memory – 10 options for viewing preferences:
››Optimum / Performance / Sports / Movie / PURE / Game / Standard / ISF-Day / ISF-Night / ISF-Auto (PC input: only Standard)
- Intelligent Mode (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
- Picture Detail Settings* – DRE Picture (Off / High / Mid / Low), ››Black Level (Off / On), ACL (Off / On), Enhancer Mode (1 / 2 / 3), Gamma (1 / 2 / 3)
- Color Temperature Adjustment – 5 settings (High / Mid-High / ››Mid / Mid-Low / Low)
- Color Temperature Manual Adjustment ››
- Color Management››
- Color Space (1 / 2)››
-3 DYC (Off / High / Mid / Low)››
- I-P Mode (1 / 2 / 3)
- IR Repeater

Thanks D-Nice and HDPeeT. I appreciate your help.

Cal68

Perhaps the speakers aren't the only thing... There's also the "Elite" label on the panel, announcing my superiority over the unwashed masses. :rolleyes:

That's why I want one:D.

OK, here's a more technical question.

You know how, so many people ask in the Owners Thread "why doesn't the plasma show I'm sending it 1080p/24 when I hit display, it only says 1080p 36 bit"? I'm wondering if Robert (or anyone else who has seen the new interface) can tell us if there will be more input and output (operating at 60hz or 72hz?) information shown when you hit the display button?

If your Kuro panel is 1080p, wouldn't it be best to output in 1080p from a good upcoverting player like the Oppo??? Not sure why you would want to send 480i into the Kuro. Can someone explain?

The claim is the panel does a better job of scaling than the player. I've never seen any real research to back it up, although it's been a while since I looked.

If your Kuro panel is 1080p, wouldn't it be best to output in 1080p from a good upcoverting player like the Oppo??? Not sure why you would want to send 480i into the Kuro. Can someone explain?

480i is the native signal of a DVD signal. The only thing that matters is which device scales / deinterlaces the best. Considering Pio's top-quality, I wouldn't go for an expensive scaler ... many others seem to agree on this

it would be nice if amazon would finance these kuros for 12 months no intrest like best buy does.

it would be nice if amazon would finance these kuros for 12 months no intrest like best buy does.

Do BBs no longer do price matching? I got them to reduce price on something by showing them an online price from another vendor. I used their in-house net connection too, the assistant even printed it out for me.

Technical question that hasn't already been answered: Anyone know whether the g9's will be able to display PAL video?

Hi,

I apologize in advance if this doesnt belong in this thread. If so, pls suggest where I should move this.

Just got off the phone w/ Invision and they finally have the prices on the 5020 and 6020! I am guessing there should be a few forum members in the SF Bayarea that would be interested in this so I was wondering if you guys would be interested in doing a group buy for an even better price. I talked to Invision and they said if we are buying 4 or more units then we would qualify for a group buy. Let me know if anyone is interested. Thanks! Per the mods

Group buys started by members are not allowed...sorry

Technical question that hasn't already been answered: Anyone know whether the g9's will be able to display PAL video?Yes

Robert, thanks for getting back to me regarding the new color sensor. I'm still a little confused on the placement of this sensor. You state that the sensor is integrated into the display ...

... The new intelligent sensor system Pioneer integrated into the 9G panels looks at the room lighting and reflected colors as well as the actual content on the screen to make the best possible adjustments. ...

The product brochure for the PRO-151FD that Russ uploaded states that this sensor is external and "Panel Weight w/Speakers, Stand and Color Sensor: 135 lbs. 1 oz.." This implied to me that the sensor was removable thus I questioned where one would place this sensor and how it would be used (setup vs. normal viewing). You also state that the sensor looks out onto the room to sense luminance and reflected color levels as well as sense content on the screen. This appears to me to mean either that the sensor is dual-sided or it faces out to the room and uses display buffer information to evaluate content information. Can you expand on where exactly this sensor is located or if it is to be placed external to the display.

The color sensor is for operation, not setup. As we all know, a color meter should be used during calibration. The Color sensor on Pioneer's 9G Elite TV is not in any way designed for use in the calibration process.

Josh

Thanks Josh. My confusion stems from the wording within the product brochure as stated above. It's interesting that the Elites have additional capabilites to faciliate calibration yet they also offer sensors that overide calibration settings (only offered on the Elites in the case of the color sensor). I understand that these sensors can be turned off but their presence also seems to reduce the need for calibration or at least disregards many aspects of calibration.

Do either of you have more information you can share regarding the integration tools or stand price? I imagine these tools would be one of the last tasks to be completed for this product launch and information may be scarce at this point.

... The signature series looks interesting to me but I would place the panel on a stand. Does anyone have an idea what the price of the stand will be? Also, are these integrator tools available to the general public? Will there be an SDK available or is this simply documentation.

i always ask them about amazon, and they always say that cant match it. you gotta love amazon thoguh. its usally always free shipping without tax. and the white glove delivery.

IM So sorry for the long post
are you serious? the panny is nowhere near the kuro
Has anybody seen one of the 9G panels yet? I'm still debating between the Pioneer 6020 and the Panny 58pz800u. I know I'll have to wait longer for the Panny, but at least some of their smaller 800 series tvs are out to look at.
THANKS d-nice this just help me get that push to the PRO-1150
Picture adjustment controls trump resolution in my book.
Thanks robert! for the info
1. Very limited allocations of Pioneer panels will begin showing up in store early July, followed in about 3 weeks by Elite PRO-111 and PRO151s.
2. Sorry my mini USB - USB cable is defective so I can't transfer my photo's from the hotel. I'll be home very very late this evening and if I can stay awake long enough I'll put some very cool shots on my site so everyone can see.
3. At this moment I would chose the PRO-1150 over the PDP-5010 as the price/performance ratio favors the 768 resolution Elite.
-Robert
I do post tid-bits as I can, this has been a very exhausting past few days. Some great photo's will be up on my site no later than tomorrow morning.
-Robert
The sensor is very cool and is very advanced from the sensors used by Pioneer or any other manufacturer in the past. The new intelligent sensor system Pioneer integrated into the 9G panels looks at the room lighting and reflected colors as well as the actual content on the screen to make the best possible adjustments. For example if you are watching sports the contrast ratio is increased and if it's golf the greens will be enhanced with more detail visible. For swimming events the blue water looks better with the sensor engaged.
When watching a movie the contrast ratio is lowered for a more detailed image. Of course, the image sensor can be shut off if the user does not want these features automatically adjusted for day/night and content correctons.
-Robert

once again robert thanks i guess it does make sense quality and price over resolution
sorry i guess asking about the 8g did get off topic as well im not a guru so i dont know if it makes a diffrence.
To each his own....If you enjoyed the last five pages of "info", all the more power to you. I know I would rather discuss more technical issues with the 9g's, rather than have people ask if they should buy an 8g because they think the glass quality is better! My point was simple, I never heard anybody being concerned with glass quality (elite vs. non-elite) before the statements about the sig series. Why is it now such a major concern? It's a non issue and is honestly poor choice of words by pioneer, for the simple reason that it gets people like you thinking too much (I know it hurts)
i didnt ask cost analisty i did state them but i wanted to now how the sd was handled or like the whites are they better on panasonic these kind of details.
Well it might not be a weird thread if not for people asking poorly phrased questions, that should have been posted in another thread, and whose answers could have been found with the slightest use of the search function.
Any Pio you are likely to get will be better than the Panny 42PX75 you already own based on my personal experience (I own the Panny).
I am sure D-Nice has much better things to do than to provide a detailed cost analysis of the PRO-1150 compared to the 5010. For Gods sake make some judgements yourself.
Sorry if this seems harsh but this entire line of questioning has been inappropriate for this thread - and then the guy states his surprise the thread hasn't been closed down.
GEEESH.

Elite PIP Questions

Is PIP still integrated tuner + other external source only or can you use a PC with a STB or use 2 STB's?

What is the max PC input (VGA or DVI?) resolution?

I really want to be able to use 2 STB's for PIP.

Hey guys a quick question any new info on the time frame of the release dates and prices of the 9G 50" KURO, I know from reading back posts it will offer more HDMI's will they all be in the back? and i know the 8g had some inputs on the side.Do you know if they will have front access on the 9g kuros?

Hey guys a quick question any new info on the time frame of the release dates and prices of the 9G 50" KURO, I know from reading back posts it will offer more HDMI's will they all be in the back? and i know the 8g had some inputs on the side.Do you know if they will have front access on the 9g kuros?

1 on the side and 3 on the back for the hdmi inputs.

cool thx! anything on the other questions about when they will hit stores?

question for d-nice or anyone else lol

if a pro-1150 is pro calibrated from umr or someone knowledageable how does it stack up to a PDP-5020?

i see advantages and distadvantages for the new model...

+ it claims it has better filters and processing and what not

- its not an elite

any clues? if they were both calibrated which would be better ? older techonogy or newer despite not being a kuro?

cool thx! anything on the other questions about when they will hit stores?

Quoting Robert....
Very limited allocations of Pioneer panels will begin showing up in store early July, followed in about 3 weeks by Elite PRO-111 and PRO151s.

The claim is the panel does a better job of scaling than the player. I've never seen any real research to back it up, although it's been a while since I looked.

I've used both a Toshiba A2 upscaling to 1080i, and a Pioneer HD1 upscaling to 1080p to a 150 panel, and I find that I prefer a clean 480i feed that the panel deinterlaces and scales. To me the Pioneer panels are very good at doing this and have been for some time. I know this is subjective, so YMMV. Just don't eliminate it as a possibility - try all the settings and choose what looks best to you.

My biggest question is whether or not to try and snag an 8g now or wait for a 9g..........I guess price and availability will answer this question for me.

1 on the side and 3 on the back for the hdmi inputs.All 4 HDMI ports on the 9G Kuros are located on the back.

All 4 HDMI ports on the 9G Kuros are located on the back.

The PDF is wrong then, it states 3 on the back and 1 one the side.

Just get the Oppo 980, set it to 480i output, and let the panel do everything.
)

What about 1080p24 3:3 cadence at 72 hz? The brochures Russ Wong posted about the 9G Elites only show two 3:2 modes:

1) PureCinema Smooth Film Motion mode takes 3:2 encoded 1080i material and then interpolates that to a "true" 60 hz adding interpolated frames? ( Sort of like Sony MotionFlow technology?)

2)Standard 3:2 will extract the 3:2 from 1080i frames and then put together the progressive frames in the repeated 3/2 order, but losslessly without doing either a bob/weave or adaptive deinterlacing? Meaning a 60 hz signal is shown but with full progressive frames, with an extra frame every five frames, so you'll see stutter.

If you want 3:3 cadence at 72 hz then:
Advanced Pure Cinema 3:3 which must be fed a 1080p24 signal and then triples the frames to show 72 hz?

Which means there's no 480i or 1080i mode that inverse telecines the frames, removes the duplicates and frame triples to 3:3 at 72hz?

If so, I'm going to have to keep my Lumagen VisionPro HDP and let it reverse telecine my sources which are 1080i or 480i and output 1080p24 direct. :(

I want to know because if the Elites do have a inverse telecine mode to 3:3 72 hz, then I can sell my Lumagen and Panasonic SDI modded DVD-RP82 to help fund my Elite! :D

The PDF is wrong then, it states 3 on the back and 1 one the side.It is. Last year they had on the cut sheets that the non-Elites had Pure mode.

What about 1080p24 3:3 cadence at 72 hz? The brochures Russ Wong posted about the 9G Elites only show two 3:2 modes:

1) PureCinema Smooth Film Motion mode takes 3:2 encoded 1080i material and then interpolates that to a "true" 60 hz adding interpolated frames? ( Sort of like Sony MotionFlow technology?)

2)Standard 3:2 will extract the 3:2 from 1080i frames and then put together the progressive frames in the repeated 3/2 order, but losslessly without doing either a bob/weave or adaptive deinterlacing? Meaning a 60 hz signal is shown but with full progressive frames, with an extra frame every five frames, so you'll see stutter.

If you want 3:3 cadence at 72 hz then:
Advanced Pure Cinema 3:3 which must be fed a 1080p24 signal and then triples the frames to show 72 hz?

Which means there's no 480i or 1080i mode that inverse telecines the frames, removes the duplicates and frame triples to 3:3 at 72hz?

If so, I'm going to have to keep my Lumagen VisionPro HDP and let it reverse telecine my sources which are 1080i or 480i and output 1080p24 direct. :(

I want to know because if the Elites do have a inverse telecine mode to 3:3 72 hz, then I can sell my Lumagen to help fund my Elite! :DPure Cinema ADV (3:3 pulldown/frame replication) is NOT only for 1080p/24. It works with film based 480i/480p/720p/1080i.

So let me get this right... all 4 HDMI on the rear of the TV? just standard inputs on the side? The PDF shows some inputs on the side.......

Yes, all in the back, PDF is incorrect.

Pure Cinema ADV (3:3 pulldown/frame replication) is NOT only for 1080p/24. It works with film based 480i/480p/720p/1080i.

Neato. Do you know anything about the new BDP-51FD? I heard it has options which allow it to work with the new Pioneer Elite plasmas? How will the 51FD compare to a SDI modded player like my Panasonic or Oppo? Would it still be best to output 480i for DVDs with the 51FD using HDMI? Thanks.

Robert when will you start taking preorders for the 151?(I called the # you e-mailed me wednesday)

send him a pm. hes on his way back to ny from the roadshow so it may take a little while to get back to you.

this thread is getting way to crazy i almost can't follow it anymore....but i need the updates :(

Yes
Hey
This is one question that I am not sure about for a while... how is it possible to do both PAL and NTSC at the same time...I think it is possible only with the Signature series because they have no inbuilt tuner...
Are you 100% sure that the non elites and the elites both support PAL

Just get the Oppo 980, set it to 480i output, and let the panel do everything.

Not sure, but for my 1150, 480i over HDMI produces the best results.

You will have to wait and see :)
If you are setting your dvd player to 480I , what is the point of getting a progressive scan DVD player... Also I have NO CLUE of what oppo is ....Is it a top of the line DVD player?

If you are setting your dvd player to 480I , what is the point of getting a progressive scan DVD player... Also I have NO CLUE of what oppo is ....Is it a top of the line DVD player?For best results you need a DVD player that will output 480i over HDMI without modifying the data from a SD DVD. I don't know of any SD DVD players that output 480i and have HDMI that aren't also upscalling. The expectation is that the Kuro will do a better job than most SD DVD players.

OPPO is a brand name and they have a sponser's adv. at the top of each page here at AVS. ;)

Hi, does anyone know what the power consumption is for the 6020? Thanks.

Hey Robert! I'm glad you're here. We've all been eagerly waiting for your reports!! I have a couple of questions about the Signature line. The added levels of callibration - would that be comparable to coupling an Elite with a high end Video processor?

What does "very brisk support" mean?
I am in the same position as you. I have pre-ordered a pro 151fd ...But now with all this "hype? " about signature series, I`m in a total dilemna. Money is not a factor anymore because if you are spending $6K another 500 plus is not a major issue. but the real thing that I am concerned about is if I am missing anything in the signature series...i know it is for the the pro`s but how much is the difference in the PQ btwn the elite and the signature series...Even if it is 5% difference , I`ll probably go for it..

I guess Robert is the only one who has some answers for this because he`s seen both the elites and the signature sets...

What is a SD DVD? Also from what you are saying... do you mean that OPPO is not a progressive scan player?
does it not mean that we are going back to the old days of standard non progressive scan DVD players..
I was also thinking of buying the onkyo NR 975 receiver...because it upscales to 1080P.. so do you think that I don't need to buy the upconverting receiver anymore because the pioneer panel itself upscales the picture

What is a SD DVD? Also from what you are saying... do you mean that OPPO is not a progressive scan player?
does it not mean that we are going back to the old days of standard non progressive scan DVD players..
I was also thinking of buying the onkyo NR 975 receiver...because it upscales to 1080P.. so do you think that I don't need to buy the upconverting receiver anymore because the pioneer panel itself upscales the picture


1) SD-DVD is standard defintion DVD, your every-day DVD that you can find pretty much everywhere.

2) OPPO players are upconverting players, but the 980 can output 480i over HDMI (not too many players do this).

3) Some suggest getting the 980 for its 480i playback because the Kuros are supposed to have some top-notch processing inside them, so some consider it best to let the TV do all of the upscaling of the untouched 480i signal from an OPPO.

Am I the only one who has scoured the forum and spec sheets on the differences between the elites and the non-elites, concluded that my poor eyes will be unable to tell the picture quality differences between the 5020 and the 111, but is crazy enough to plunk down the extra grand or so just to get the aesthetic benefits of the side speakers? Also, has anyone answered the question about whether any of the forum sponsors will be allowed to ship elites out of their 250 mile zone? I believe someone said that the answer will be forthcoming on Friday. I may be crazy enough to blow a grand on side speakers, but paying MSRP at a brick and mortar will eat away at my soul.


I give up. I tried to explain things earlier in this thread about the subject.
Believe me, there are differences and it's not about how good it looks, but
what kind of theatrical experience you'll want.

What is a SD DVD?Standard Definition (480i).

Also from what you are saying... do you mean that OPPO is not a progressive scan player?That's not what I wrote. :)

The OPPO suggested by D-Nice is an upscaling SD DVD player that will output 480i using HDMI. That's not an easy combination to find.

does it not mean that we are going back to the old days of standard non progressive scan DVD players..In most case the movie data stored on DVDs is 480i. Progressive DVD players have the ability to de-interlace that data.

I was also thinking of buying the onkyo NR 975 receiver...because it upscales to 1080P.. so do you think that I don't need to buy the upconverting receiver anymore because the pioneer panel itself upscales the pictureIt's a choice you can test. The 975 is a high end receiver. You would need to compare it's performance with your Kuro.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a A/V receiver for it's scaling and de-interlacing ability. I'm more interested in it's ability to equalize speakers and do base management. I would also want it to have clean HDMI switching.

Onkyo has very good receivers at lower price points. Their 705 is very popular here at AVS.

The PDF is wrong then, it states 3 on the back and 1 one the side.

Perhaps you should look on the elite PDF as that one says "4 Independent
HDMI 1.3" inputs... just like last year.

do you think the 60inch kuro will go for 4999 on amazon?

I know this thread is about pioneer , but I would like to ask one more question here..
about DVD players

1) Is the NTSC/PAL support a feature of DVD player or the TV ( I have a panasonic commercial version TV which supports all PAL dvd`s , but when i tried to use the same PAL dvd with the same DVD player on my brother`s panasonic consumer version plasma (th50PZ700) it did not work ( i was able to hear the audio but no visuals)

2) If i am getting the Elite 151fd , do I need to buy the oppo 980 or the oppo 983 in order to get the best picture ....lets eliminate the price factor here ( I just read about the differnces on their website... and they boast of a superior video quality in oppo 983 due to a better processor)... does it really matter btwn the oppo 980 or 983 if we are setting the dvd player to 480i mode now that senior members like D-Nice are suggesting to let the Pioneer do all the work

I preordered the 6020 today, and I am excited. I bought a floor model 5080 at Bestbuy a week ago, and I will be returning that in the next few weeks.

I do have a couple questions about the 6020. I assume the mounting specifications will be the same as the 6010. Can someone give me a wall mount recommendation for a mount that is flush with the wall? I bought a mount for the 5080, and I was able to utilize 3 wall studs for stability, but I know for sure this mount won't work for the 6010 (and the 6020 also I assume).

Also, I am very curious about the capabilities of 6020 and the ethernet connection. I don't know anything about DLNA guidelines, but I did see the list of compatible audio and video formats. How does the streaming work on the tv end and the PC end? I understand that the current elites have this feature. How is the quality?

I have alot of AVI, MPEG2, DVD, & Blu-ray video files ripped to my PC. I would be very happy if I could stream these files to the TV without the use of a HTPC or media extender at the TV. I realize I will need to reencode some of my files to be compliant, but that looks to be a huge added feature for me! I haven't seen much discussed in this thread about it. Can someone add some insight or at least direct me where to look?

Also, I am very curious about the capabilities of 6020 and the ethernet connection. I don't know anything about DLNA guidelines, but I did see the list of compatible audio and video formats. How does the streaming work on the tv end and the PC end? I understand that the current elites have this feature. How is the quality?

I have alot of AVI, MPEG2, DVD, & Blu-ray video files ripped to my PC. I would be very happy if I could stream these files to the TV without the use of a HTPC or media extender at the TV. I realize I will need to reencode some of my files to be compliant, but that looks to be a huge added feature for me! I haven't seen much discussed in this thread about it. Can someone add some insight or at least direct me where to look?

I'd like to know this too. I'm assuming the built-in feature now on the non-elites acts as a media extender so all you need is your network, a PC, and the appropriate software. If so, then this is a value added benefit because from the little I've read, TVersity is a powerful freeware media server software that would give you the ability to pull most formats from your PC at no additional cost. It reportedly works with DLNA compliant extenders. Surely some can comment here since the 8G elites (exclusively) had this feature that has now been extended to the non-elites.

Also, I am very curious about the capabilities of 6020 and the ethernet connection. I don't know anything about DLNA guidelines, but I did see the list of compatible audio and video formats. How does the streaming work on the tv end and the PC end? I understand that the current elites have this feature. How is the quality?

I have alot of AVI, MPEG2, DVD, & Blu-ray video files ripped to my PC. I would be very happy if I could stream these files to the TV without the use of a HTPC or media extender at the TV. I realize I will need to reencode some of my files to be compliant, but that looks to be a huge added feature for me! I haven't seen much discussed in this thread about it. Can someone add some insight or at least direct me where to look?

+1

I give up. I tried to explain things earlier in this thread about the subject.
Believe me, there are differences and it's not about how good it looks, but
what kind of theatrical experience you'll want.

Unlike some, I read the entire thread (and some of the others on the 9G as well as the 8G) and I get it. My point was, I figure the upgrade from my 27" JVC CRT to the 50" Kuro is the great leap forward and, absent the side-to-side comparison, I could live in bliss without the better color accuracy and the, let's say, adjustibility of the elites. But, the tipping point to spending the extra grand is that I find the side speaker placement to be more aesthetically pleasing than the bottom speaker. (I intend to have the home theater setup but prefer the normal tv speakers when it comes to normal tv programming.) Hence, the self-proclaimed craziness. Just wanted to know if I'm unique in my insanity.

Unlike some, I read the entire thread (and some of the others on the 9G as well as the 8G) and I get it. My point was, I figure the upgrade from my 27" JVC CRT to the 50" Kuro is the great leap forward and, absent the side-to-side comparison, I could live in bliss without the better color accuracy and the, let's say, adjustibility of the elites. But, the tipping point to spending the extra grand is that I find the side speaker placement to be more aesthetically pleasing than the bottom speaker. (I intend to have the home theater setup but prefer the normal tv speakers when it comes to normal tv programming.) Hence, the self-proclaimed craziness. Just wanted to know if I'm unique in my insanity.

You are not alone. I am in the same way. I do like the side speakers.

Also the 2 years warranty of Elite and the network is something nice to consider as well, at least for me. They are nice. I am planning to eventually have my Elite calibrate by a professional. I hear it's money well spent.

Many HD TV series with DD5.1 are greatly enhanced with a full surround sound system. The sound on NUMB3RS is awesome!!! The sound moving from back to front blows me away every week! I would never want to watch that program through anything other they my full sound system with sub!!! My whole room shakes during the opening sequence and closing credits!!!

Besides I think the Signature monitors look far better than the Elites with the side speakers ... they look ugly to me! They make the TV look disproportionately wide!

Help save the planet by not having all that useless bagage that comes with an Elite ... tuner and speakers specifically!!! At least with customer those items would never be used ... the speakers would never get out of the box!

if i get a kuro will it diplay the volume with my elite receiver?

Unlike some, I read the entire thread (and some of the others on the 9G as well as the 8G) and I get it. My point was, I figure the upgrade from my 27" JVC CRT to the 50" Kuro is the great leap forward and, absent the side-to-side comparison, I could live in bliss without the better color accuracy and the, let's say, adjustibility of the elites. But, the tipping point to spending the extra grand is that I find the side speaker placement to be more aesthetically pleasing than the bottom speaker. (I intend to have the home theater setup but prefer the normal tv speakers when it comes to normal tv programming.) Hence, the self-proclaimed craziness. Just wanted to know if I'm unique in my insanity.

Technicaly I am buying the pioneer because in my opinion the bezel looks great and it works well with the rest of the look of the house. I can go into a magnolia store and not really notice any great differences between the sets, so I thought I might as well get the one that will look the best on the wall. Luckily the one that looks the best on the wall is also the one that performs the best.

So to answer your question, I don't think your crazy, it is important to get a tv that would look the best for you on or off. But I would make sure that the elite speakers won't fit the non elite. Because I am sure there are many elite owners that would sell you the speakers for cheap.

I hope I am not repeating any questions:

[1] I know we only want MSRP talk, but the $5.5k for the Pioneer PDP-6020FD is about $1.5k less than that for the PDP-6010FD. Can we assume that street prices will be about $1.2k-$1.5k less for the 6020 than they are for the 6010?

[PS: I am comparing the new 60" Kuro to the new 60" panel from Vizio (don't laugh). the vizio has LG glass, 30000:1 (probably as good as the outgoing Panasonic) and HQV built in. It costs under $3k MSRP. I would pay 50% more for the Kuro, but not 100%.]

[2] can the Kuro pass out the audio part of its HDMI audio feed back out from the rear, perhaps as TOSlink? I figure this would make it much easier to synchronize the AV receiver and the display. I had a JVC HTIB system that was far off from my Sony RPTV---so bad, it was totally unusable.

[PS: I would love a TV that was also the amplifier, so that my speakers (or at least rear speakers) plug into the TV, instead of into something that needs to synchronize.]

[3] is there any fan noise? in other words, if you turn down the volume all the way and sit 6 feet away, can you detect with closed ears whether the TV is on or off?

[4] I think the arrival date is June. Wonder if it is scheduled for early June or late June...

/iaw

I also have a DVD question. I have a Panasonic S97 upconverting DVD player and a Denon 3808CI AVR. How should I set up this equipment with a Pioneer 6020 to achieve the best picture. I know nothing about DVD players. I would be more than willing to buy another DVD player if the Panasonic S97 is not a good fit for the Denon 3808CI and the Pioneer 6020.

Please advise on what to buy and how to set it up.

Sorry to be off-topic..

Can someone PM me the price from Invision? I cant seem to get in contact them and I want to get this ordered as quickly as possible from one of the sponsors. They are the only one I havent heard from.

Thanks

Is it CONFIRMED that Elites will be coming in late July/Early August?
Or is there still a chance it'll be hitting in late June?


Dennis

I hope I am not repeating any questions:

[1] I know we only want MSRP talk, but the $5.5k for the Pioneer PDP-6020FD is about $1.5k less than that for the PDP-6010FD. Can we assume that street prices will be about $1.2k-$1.5k less for the 6020 than they are for the 6010?

[PS: I am comparing the new 60" Kuro to the new 60" panel from Vizio (don't laugh). the vizio has LG glass, 30000:1 (probably as good as the outgoing Panasonic) and HQV built in. It costs under $3k MSRP. I would pay 50% more for the Kuro, but not 100%.]


This has already been answered. The current pricing on the 6010 is discounted to clear inventory so no way you see pricing on the 6020 $1.5k below the 6010. That being said, just shoot a few PM's to the forum sponsors participating in this thread. I think you'll be pleased with the quoted prices. IMO, any 6010 inventory left by the end of June will need to come down further in pricing or else it won't move.

Pure Cinema ADV (3:3 pulldown/frame replication) is NOT only for 1080p/24. It works with film based 480i/480p/720p/1080i.
I have a few questions for D-Nice, Robert and all other senior members ... one or two questions have already been asked but please forgive me if I am being obsessive -compulsive

1) Is the NTSC/PAL support a feature of DVD player or the TV ( I have a panasonic commercial version TV which supports all PAL dvd`s , but when i tried to use the same PAL dvd with the same DVD player on my brother`s panasonic consumer version plasma (th50PZ700) it did not work ( i was able to hear the audio but no visuals)

2) If i am getting the Elite 151fd , do I need to buy the oppo 980 or the oppo 983 in order to get the best picture ....lets eliminate the price factor here ( I just read about the differnces on their website... and they boast of a superior video quality in oppo 983 due to a better processor)... does it really matter btwn the oppo 980 or 983 if we are setting the dvd player to 480i mode now that senior members like D-Nice are suggesting to let the Pioneer do all the work

3)I was also thinking of buying the onkyo NR 975 receiver...because it upscales to 1080P.. so do you think that I don't need to buy the upconverting receiver anymore because the pioneer panel itself upscales the picture

4) I have pre-ordered a pro 151fd ...But now with all this "hype? " about signature series, I`m in a total dilemna. Money is not a factor anymore because if you are spending $6K another 500 plus is not a major issue. but the real thing that I am concerned about is if I am missing anything in the signature series...i know it is for the the pro`s but how much is the difference in the PQ btwn the elite and the signature series...Even if it is 5% difference , I`ll probably go for it..FYI most of my TV watching is for movies and standard programing and some sports...
What difference does the A++ grade glass exactly do... does it improve the image or the contrast or the black performance ...

Also any idea on how they managed to make the same or even better specs elite in a thinner panel.?

5)Do the pioneer elites/signature series and non elites support PAL ?

I also have a DVD question. I have a Panasonic S97 upconverting DVD player and a Denon 3808CI AVR. How should I set up this equipment with a Pioneer 6020 to achieve the best picture. I know nothing about DVD players. I would be more than willing to buy another DVD player if the Panasonic S97 is not a good fit for the Denon 3808CI and the Pioneer 6020.

Please advise on what to buy and how to set it up.

Hi LTCJack,

You have a couple of options here. The receiver you have does not modify video over HDMI at all (no scaling or deinterlacing) but does pass video unchanged. Therefore only two of your components can actively scale or deinterlace.

If at all possible, you want the Pioneer plasma to detect the film sequence inherent to the DVD code, such that it can enable 72Hz mode 3:3 progressive scanning to remove unnatural judder. My experience with this is limited, though D-nice states that the panel can detect film mode from a DVD regardless of whether it comes in at 480i, 480p, 1080i or 1080p. I suspect however, that if your DVD player screws up the scaling or deinterlacing that the panel might not predictably be able to engage that mode.

The best way for the Pioneer plasma to detect a film sequence is to feed it 1080p/24 from a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player, but I am not aware of any upconverting DVD players that can do this. (If anyone else does, please chime in.) External video processors can, but are quite expensive. According to the specs, the Pioneer will automatically take 24fps video and engage 72Hz 3:3 mode.

The second best way is to have the DVD player simply send 480i (the native format of DVD) over HDMI unprocessed and let the panel process it. The reason upconverting players exist at all is that many panels are abysmal at scaling and deinterlacing, though later generations are much better, and by all accounts the Pioneers are excellent (for at least the last few years).

The information I have is that the DVD-S97 does not output 480i over HDMI, but rather forces you to choose between 480p, 720p, and 1080i or 1080p. The question you have to decide is whether the player is a decent deinterlacer, scaler, or both. If it deinterlaces cleanly, but scales poorly, then put it in 480p. If it deinterlaces poorly but scales well, put it in 1080i. If it does both well, then any of the modes 480p, 1080i, and 1080p should look quite good. I wouldn't use 720p at all, since that would have the player scaling once and deinterlacing then having the panel scale again. Scaling twice is bad.

If it doesn't do well no matter how you set it over HDMI, then check with component cables and 480i. If component 480i looks better on the KURO than any other mode via HDMI, then it is time to buy one of the OPPO players that can send native 480i over HDMI.

I hope that helps...

Good Luck!

KDD

Hi LTCJack,

You have a couple of options here. The receiver you have does not modify video over HDMI at all (no scaling or deinterlacing) but does pass video unchanged. Therefore only two of your components can actively scale or deinterlace.

If at all possible, you want the Pioneer plasma to detect the film sequence inherent to the DVD code, such that it can enable 72Hz mode 3:3 progressive scanning to remove unnatural judder. My experience with this is limited, though D-nice states that the panel can detect film mode from a DVD regardless of whether it comes in at 480i, 480p, 1080i or 1080p. I suspect however, that if your DVD player screws up the scaling or deinterlacing that the panel might not predictably be able to engage that mode.

The best way for the Pioneer plasma to detect a film sequence is to feed it 1080p/24 from a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player, but I am not aware of any upconverting DVD players that can do this. (If anyone else does, please chime in.) External video processors can, but are quite expensive. According to the specs, the Pioneer will automatically take 24fps video and engage 72Hz 3:3 mode.

The second best way is to have the DVD player simply send 480i (the native format of DVD) over HDMI unprocessed and let the panel process it. The reason upconverting players exist at all is that many panels are abysmal at scaling and deinterlacing, though later generations are much better, and by all accounts the Pioneers are excellent (for at least the last few years).

The information I have is that the DVD-S97 does not output 480i over HDMI, but rather forces you to choose between 480p, 720p, and 1080i or 1080p. The question you have to decide is whether the player is a decent deinterlacer, scaler, or both. If it deinterlaces cleanly, but scales poorly, then put it in 480p. If it deinterlaces poorly but scales well, put it in 1080i. If it does both well, then any of the modes 480p, 1080i, and 1080p should look quite good. I wouldn't use 720p at all, since that would have the player scaling once and deinterlacing then having the panel scale again. Scaling twice is bad.

If it doesn't do well no matter how you set it over HDMI, then check with component cables and 480i. If component 480i looks better on the KURO than any other mode via HDMI, then it is time to buy one of the OPPO players that can send native 480i over HDMI.

I hope that helps...

Good Luck!

KDD
Based on what I have read from D-Nice recommendation, you can go with oppo-980 ,set it in 480i mode and let the pioneer panel work the magic

Just get the Oppo 980, set it to 480i output, and let the panel do everything.

Not sure, but for my 1150, 480i over HDMI produces the best results.

You will have to wait and see :)
What if you have a HD set top box from either Dish/Directv/cable company and you are watching both HD and non HD programs---- do you still put the STB in the 480i mode or do you change the output from the STB based on the programs you watch?

What if you have a HD set top box from either Dish/Directv/cable company and you are watching both HD and non HD programs---- do you still put the STB in the 480i mode or do you change the output from the STB based on the programs you watch?

I think the best results come from using the STB to output "native" mode, since different channels have different aspect ratios, etc. That way the Pioneer is not "re-processing" what the STB has just "processed" from whatever the native signal was...

D-nice, do you concur?

KDD

What if you have a HD set top box from either Dish/Directv/cable company and you are watching both HD and non HD programs---- do you still put the STB in the 480i mode or do you change the output from the STB based on the programs you watch?
That brings me to another question now....
First can you clarify what "native"mode stands for....do you mean setting the output video mode to direct HDMI mode...

now the question i have is about aspect ratios...I heard that your chaces of burn in are higher if you have 4:3 image...and i read somewhere that it is better to use stretch or zoom setting in such cases...does the pioneer let you chage the aspect ratio if the original source picture is 4:3 (assuming you are using a HDMI cable)

I think the best results come from using the STB to output "native" mode, since different channels have different aspect ratios, etc. That way the Pioneer is not "re-processing" what the STB has just "processed" from whatever the native signal was...

D-nice, do you concur?

KDD
That brings me to another question now....
First can you clarify what "native"mode stands for....do you mean setting the output video mode to direct HDMI mode...

now the question i have is about aspect ratios...I heard that your chaces of burn in are higher if you have 4:3 image...and i read somewhere that it is better to use stretch or zoom setting in such cases...does the pioneer let you chage the aspect ratio if the original source picture is 4:3 (assuming you are using a HDMI cable)

does the pioneer let you chage the aspect ratio if the original source picture is 4:3 (assuming you are using a HDMI cable)

Yes. It even has an "auto" feature you can enable that detects a 4:3 image and automatically widens it.

Hi folks, new to the forum. Longtime audiophile, nascent videophile.

Just plunked down $$$$ to reserve a 151. Was happy with my decision, but am now thinking about the 141.

Any ideas if there will be any real differences between a properly calibrated 151 and 141?

Hi folks, new to the forum. Longtime audiophile, nascent videophile.

Just plunked down $$$$ to reserve a 151. Was happy with my decision, but am now thinking about the 141.

Any ideas if there will be any real differences between a properly calibrated 151 and 141?

where'd u plunk the $ down at. with a forum sponsor?
Could you PM me the price you were quoted?
I was going back and forth first between the 6020 and the 151.
Then I found myself leaning between the 151 and 141. I have decided that the 151 will be my choice. The 151 will be a welcome addition to my home for many years to come. I do not want my wife or kids messing with the stereo, so the tv must have speakers. But, what do I know, maybe I am missing the big picture on the 141.....


FORUM SPONSORS I am looking for pricing of a 151. I will need to finance half of it. Please PM me. Robert? Are u out there?

But, the tipping point to spending the extra grand is that I find the side speaker placement to be more aesthetically pleasing than the bottom speaker. (I intend to have the home theater setup but prefer the normal tv speakers when it comes to normal tv programming.) Hence, the self-proclaimed craziness. Just wanted to know if I'm unique in my insanity.

Sorry for my outburst. :o I was going a bit crazy earlier.

I did comment about the speakers too. In my humble opinion, having the speakers
on the sides makes a heck of a lot more sense than at the bottom as they seem
to distribute the sound better, IMHO. More than that, they *DO* look a whole
lot better on the sides. I find the bottom speaker looks cheaply tacked on and in
some cases, I've seen them hang downwards a bit in time.

The other thing to consider is your stand. The speakers on the sides mean
you get a MUCH better stand that, not only hides the cables without speakers,
but also keeps the TV at a decent height with respect to your table. The
non-elite TV speaker configuration raises the TV by 3 inches, hence, elevating
the viewing area of the screen by 3 inches. For a 60 inch TV, this means you
will *NEED* a very low table (about 17 inches) to handle it, which is very
hard to find at a decent price. Remember, the bigger the TV, the bigger the
vertical size of the screen. If the centre of the screen is to far off eye-level
while seating, your neck will be at an uncomfortable angle. Either that or
you will experience eye-strain from looking upwards for too long. Ever watched
a movie from the front row? Kinda like that. Of course, if you use a recliner
all the time, then it shouldn't be as much of a deal. It's one reason why I
am having issues with hanging a TV on a wall. I've tried elevating TVs before
and without a recliner, it's just not a joy to watch.

Oh yeah, by the way, you're not crazy about caring for the aesthetics. In fact,
it's one of the reasons why I picked the elite last year as well. Heck, it's one of
the reasons why I chose Pioneer over Panny (but not THE reason).

Just get the Oppo 980, set it to 480i output, and let the panel do everything.

I own an Oppo 980 and an Integra DTC 9.8 and am planning on getting either the 6020 or 151...depending on how much the price difference is. In someones opinion who has this setup with an 8G, which would be better at upscaling...

1. Oppo at 480i--->Integra 9.8 set to through--->6020 to 1080p.
2. Oppo at 480i--->Integra 9.8 set to through--->151 to 1080p.
3. Oppo at 480i--->Integra 9.8 to 1080p--->6020/151

I wish all of life's decisions would be this hard :).

Hi LTCJack,

You have a couple of options here. The receiver you have does not modify video over HDMI at all (no scaling or deinterlacing) but does pass video unchanged. Therefore only two of your components can actively scale or deinterlace.

If at all possible, you want the Pioneer plasma to detect the film sequence inherent to the DVD code, such that it can enable 72Hz mode 3:3 progressive scanning to remove unnatural judder. My experience with this is limited, though D-nice states that the panel can detect film mode from a DVD regardless of whether it comes in at 480i, 480p, 1080i or 1080p. I suspect however, that if your DVD player screws up the scaling or deinterlacing that the panel might not predictably be able to engage that mode.

The best way for the Pioneer plasma to detect a film sequence is to feed it 1080p/24 from a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player, but I am not aware of any upconverting DVD players that can do this. (If anyone else does, please chime in.) External video processors can, but are quite expensive. According to the specs, the Pioneer will automatically take 24fps video and engage 72Hz 3:3 mode.

The second best way is to have the DVD player simply send 480i (the native format of DVD) over HDMI unprocessed and let the panel process it. The reason upconverting players exist at all is that many panels are abysmal at scaling and deinterlacing, though later generations are much better, and by all accounts the Pioneers are excellent (for at least the last few years).

The information I have is that the DVD-S97 does not output 480i over HDMI, but rather forces you to choose between 480p, 720p, and 1080i or 1080p. The question you have to decide is whether the player is a decent deinterlacer, scaler, or both. If it deinterlaces cleanly, but scales poorly, then put it in 480p. If it deinterlaces poorly but scales well, put it in 1080i. If it does both well, then any of the modes 480p, 1080i, and 1080p should look quite good. I wouldn't use 720p at all, since that would have the player scaling once and deinterlacing then having the panel scale again. Scaling twice is bad.

If it doesn't do well no matter how you set it over HDMI, then check with component cables and 480i. If component 480i looks better on the KURO than any other mode via HDMI, then it is time to buy one of the OPPO players that can send native 480i over HDMI.

I hope that helps...

Good Luck!

KDD


Thanks ....it helps somewhat, but I am sort've an idiot. i don't even know what scaling or deinterlacing means. From what I gather, you are telling me to buy a blu-ray player first, & an oppo dvd player second. If a blu ray player is the best solution, then why would anyone ever buy an oppo?? Why is oppo in business?? I bought the S97 cos I was waiting for the blu-ray hd-dvd to sort itself out. I heard blu ray won. So maybe now is the time
to get the blu-ray, and I can move the s97 to the $500 sony crt.

So if the best solution is to buy a blu-ray, then if someone could just tell me which blu-ray unit I need to buy to work the best with the 6020 and the Denon 3808CI, I would appreciate it. I have B&W speakers, so I want my system to sound good and look good. What would make my picture look the best?

Off topic, did I make a mistake buying the Denon 3808CI if it can't upscale??

Oh yeah, by the way, you're not crazy about caring for the aesthetics. In fact,
it's one of the reasons why I picked the elite last year as well. Heck, it's one of
the reasons why I chose Pioneer over Panny (but not THE reason).I thought I was the only one :) Even when off the Pio design looks sweet :). Now if they could only find a way to make the 60" bezel as thin as the 50" bezel.......

Hi folks, new to the forum. Longtime audiophile, nascent videophile.

Just plunked down $$$$ to reserve a 151. Was happy with my decision, but am now thinking about the 141.

Any ideas if there will be any real differences between a properly calibrated 151 and 141?
Honestly, stick with the 151. I've had a 150 and the elite features are already
fantastic. I got the impression from D-Nice that the 151 is plenty enough for
for amazing PQ as well. I think the 141 is for the extreme individual who wants
excessively accurate control of the TV. It's also for that extreme individual who
doesn't want unnecessary items to interfere with PQ or signals.

I thought I was the only one :) Even when off the Pio design looks sweet :). Now if they could only find a way to make the 60" bezel as thin as the 50" bezel.......

Damn straight man! :)

when you guys say bezel does that mean just the black glossy thing around the tv, or is the bezel the back of the tv also?

Hey
This is one question that I am not sure about for a while... how is it possible to do both PAL and NTSC at the same time...I think it is possible only with the Signature series because they have no inbuilt tuner...
Are you 100% sure that the non elites and the elites both support PALYes

Native mode means whatever the source is. For instance CBS HD is 1080i, but ABC HD is 720p, so an STB that can do native mode will output 1080i for cbs, 720p for abc, 480i for non-HD, thus allowing the plasma to do the only conversion.

There are different types of stretch modes and aspect ratio modes, take a look at the pdf sheets I posted or you can look at the 150FD manual and see what the options are.

Russ

That brings me to another question now....
First can you clarify what "native"mode stands for....do you mean setting the output video mode to direct HDMI mode...

now the question i have is about aspect ratios...I heard that your chaces of burn in are higher if you have 4:3 image...and i read somewhere that it is better to use stretch or zoom setting in such cases...does the pioneer let you chage the aspect ratio if the original source picture is 4:3 (assuming you are using a HDMI cable)

... I think the 141 is for the extreme individual who wants
excessively accurate control of the TV. It's also for that extreme individual who
doesn't want unnecessary items to interfere with PQ or signals.Or as in my case, it's for the individual who doesn't have any need for what's exluded and who could benefit from what is included. It's an easy decision for me to step up to the Signature model if the pricing is roughly the same between the two.

d-nice,

any info from an earlier question about PIP? What sources can you use for the PIP? I have two set top boxes currently on one set.

Have they given you an idea of when we might be seeing the Signature 141's start showing up? I believe you had mentioned a couple of days ago that August was the target date, but as you've said the Elites were pushed back a month, I'm wondering if you've been told anything new on the Signature series?

BTW, thanks for the continued updates, Robert. I know from experience how draining these types of events can be...so it's been very nice of you to fire off a post or two when you have a moment.

September for the PRO141FD 60" and October for the 50"

-Robert

Robert said he was going to find out this week if he can ship Elites nationwide .

I hope he can. The more competition the better for us.

Also, does anybody now if any of these authorized dealers online offer 12 month free interest payments? :D

Sorry, no dealer is permitted to sell Elites beyond the 200 mile radius in Pioneer's Elite dealer agreement. Pioneer branded is OK and 12 month interest free financing should be available from most retailers.

-Robert

September for the PRO141FD 60" and October for the 50"

-Robert
Thanks, Robert. As I'd mentioned, the networking capabilities of the 141FD you described sound very interesting. One more month might make it worth while. Might allow my integrator time to get up to speed on the unit.

Elite PIP Questions

Is PIP still integrated tuner + other external source only or can you use a PC with a STB or use 2 STB's?

What is the max PC input (VGA or DVI?) resolution?

I really want to be able to use 2 STB's for PIP.

PIP works perfectly with a PC using DVI - HDMI or DVI - VGA or just VGA and of course, you can use two STBs as well. So I guess we can call it PIP and or PIPC.

At the road show Josh demonstrated PIP with a PC in the small insert. Also the PIP can easily be placed in any corner of the screen.

-Robert

question for d-nice or anyone else lol

if a pro-1150 is pro calibrated from umr or someone knowledageable how does it stack up to a PDP-5020?

i see advantages and distadvantages for the new model...

+ it claims it has better filters and processing and what not

- its not an elite

any clues? if they were both calibrated which would be better ? older techonogy or newer despite not being a kuro?

If both are ISF calibrated the PDP-5020FD will look better. However, for the PDP-5020FD the calibrator would need to go into the service menu to be able to properly adjust the TV.

-Robert

Or as in my case, it's for the individual who doesn't have any need for what's exluded and who could benefit from what is included. It's an easy decision for me to step up to the Signature model if the pricing is roughly the same between the two.
That's kinda what I meant.

Hey
This is one question that I am not sure about for a while... how is it possible to do both PAL and NTSC at the same time...I think it is possible only with the Signature series because they have no inbuilt tuner...
Are you 100% sure that the non elites and the elites both support PAL
As D-Nice said, I also agree the answer is yes. PAL or NTSC, but not at the same time.

-Robert

Sorry, no dealer is permitted to sell Elites beyond the 200 mile radius in Pioneer's Elite dealer agreement. Pioneer branded is OK and 12 month interest free financing should be available from most retailers.

-Robert

Well, Buffalo N.Y. is within 200 miles from Toronto, Ontario (Canada). Do you
think anyone will ship to me? :)

First, my confession: There are several pages beyond this I haven't read yet, so forgive me if I'm repeating things that got posted later.

But I wanted to respond to this since I think my post yesterday started this snowball going. I don't at all begrudge the company's right to grade panels. But I am trying to understand the real world consequences. I was set to buy what I thought was the best plasma on the market today (I prefer Kuro to Runco and B & O). Now, I find myself in the position of trying to decide if there is something better for the same price - the Signature series. And if it will be significantly enough better to cause me to wait a couple of months.

And we all know what me waiting leads to.....

Maybe I am missing something here. I see the Signatures as monitors built with a sort of specific purpose (allow more flexibility for the needs of diverse industries and such) and then I see the Elites as number one "complete" TVs for the best TV watching experience. Maybe I'm missing a screw but I wouldn't say that Signatures and Elites might end up costing the same because because, for monitors, you need to buy the extra stuff to get the option of really just watching TV and that extra stuff costs money and the monitor will end up costing different prices in the end because the total investment on the peripherals will vary from individual to individual. If someone wants to add $6,500 for speakers and who knows how much for a receiver, surround sound equipment, etc., that setup will cost a LOT MORE than someone with less expensive peripherals. All I am trying to say is that an Elite TV gives you everything you need to have to watch TV out of the box, while the Signature doesn't. Then, in the future, you decide to relegate your 2008 Signature to the bedroom to make place for a beautiful 70+" Panasonic/Pioneer for your family room. Does that mean that you will have to have two sets of everything? Another tuner, receiver, set of spearkers, etc.? That's what confuses me. I can't understand why someone can have trouble deciding between a monitor and a TV when both serve "sort of" a difference purpose IMO. I guess there are all types of people with a great assortment of tastes, but I wouldn't want to have a lot of equipment in my bedroom just to watch my incredible older Signature in about 3 years. But, hey, this is the idea of just ONE individual: me. So please don't take it as if I criticizing anyone who opts for a monitor instead of a full-fledged TV. ;)

September for the PRO141FD 60" and October for the 50"

-Robert

What about the 5020 and 6020?

I am in the same position as you. I have pre-ordered a pro 151fd ...But now with all this "hype? " about signature series, I`m in a total dilemna. Money is not a factor anymore because if you are spending $6K another 500 plus is not a major issue. but the real thing that I am concerned about is if I am missing anything in the signature series...i know it is for the the pro`s but how much is the difference in the PQ btwn the elite and the signature series...Even if it is 5% difference , I`ll probably go for it..

I guess Robert is the only one who has some answers for this because he`s seen both the elites and the signature sets...

Signature Series is for very advanced applications with special requirements. Of course, you can use a Signature Series monitor if you wanted to with a hopefully well matched high-end surround sound system.

The Signature Series is designed for an integrator/programmer to exploit some of the very technical advanced features. The Signature Series also have more calibration pq settings for a better ISF calibration.

-Robert

And how significant would you say the difference between the 5010 & 5020 is?

cliftonite ^^ More than I originally thought. I have some very excellent photo's I took at the road show of the PRO-110 and PRO-111 that illustrate the deeper black level of the 9G panel.

If I can't stay up much later tonight, I'll post them on my site by tomorrow.

-Robert

So if the best solution is to buy a blu-ray, then if someone could just tell me which blu-ray unit I need to buy to work the best with the 6020 and the Denon 3808CI, I would appreciate it. I have B&W speakers, so I want my system to sound good and look good. What would make my picture look the best?

Off topic, did I make a mistake buying the Denon 3808CI if it can't upscale??

If you can wait till early July get Pioneer's DMP-051FD Blu-ray player. Clearly the best BD player. I like your Denon receiver very much, but this year their advantages to paring all three devices Pioneer branded as they actually work better together.

-Robert

What about the 5020 and 6020?

Very late June to early July for the first allocations.

-Robert

Well, Buffalo N.Y. is within 200 miles from Toronto, Ontario (Canada). Do you
think anyone will ship to me? :)
I bet you probably could find someone to ship you a TV, although you should keep in mind that you WILL NOT be able to have the display serviced under warranty in Canada. You will be able to drive it to the states, and drop it off at an authorized Pio servicer, and have it serviced under warranty, but you will only receive 2 years of coverage opposed to 3 if you buy in Canada.

-Coggs

Ok good. I think you don't have any choice really. You're not going to get what you want with the 8g, which is the Signature Elite quality glass. You have a chance at the quality. A slim one at that. I think people said it was 5% chance. So out of every 20 you buy you'll get one which is a Signature Elite quality glass, if you buy a 8G instead. If you think you're that lucky, can go to the store and spot one which is that 5%, etc, go for it. Otherwise, the new features in the 9Gs more than make up, since you cannot afford a Signature Elite anyway, by the sound of your post. Unless you want to wait again next year for an ECC 10G. But how long will you wait? How long will you doubt? I don't think you'll get that better glass with the Panasonic either. At that rate, maybe you'll get that perfect TV in heaven, just like me! :D

BTW, I don't know how my post got deleted. All I wanted to do was edit out the "non-" in the "non-Elite" but accidentally deleted it, woops. :o

IMHO I see this "glass" thing as a non-issue. Pioneer won't allow that the customers who are paying big bucks for their TVs will be disappointed and will give the company a bad reputation because their non-Signature panels don't show the best PQ to-date. I imagine it is like drinking champagne in a Baccarat glass (Signature) or drinking it in a Cristofle (Elite). They both will feel and look like what they are, very fine crystal, but what will be even more important won't be the glass difference in this case because both are great, but the kind of champagne that is in them. Some Dom Perignon anyone? :)

I bet you probably could find someone to ship you a TV, although you should keep in mind that you WILL NOT be able to have the display serviced under warranty in Canada. You will be able to drive it to the states, and drop it off at an authorized Pio servicer, and have it serviced under warranty, but you will only receive 2 years of coverage opposed to 3 if you buy in Canada.

-Coggs

Already know that and don't care about Pioneer Canada warranty as it's useless as hell! Remember, i had a pro-150FD.

IMHO I see this "glass" thing as a non-issue. Pioneer won't allow that the customers who are paying big bucks for their TVs will be disappointed and will give the company a bad reputation because their non-Signature panels don't show the best PQ to-date. I imagine it is like drinking champagne in a Baccarat glass (Signature) or drinking it in a Cristofle (Elite). They both will feel and look like what they are, very fine crystal, but what will be even more important won't be the glass difference in this case because both are great, but the kind of champagne that is in them. Some Dom Perignon anyone? :)
I prefer Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame in most vintages ;) (I used to be a vineyard manager in the Okanagan)

Already know that and don't care about Pioneer Canada warranty as it's useless as hell! Remember, i had a pro-150FD.
Right I forgot, the info might be useful to someone anyway.

Sorry, no dealer is permitted to sell Elites beyond the 200 mile radius in Pioneer's Elite dealer agreement. Pioneer branded is OK and 12 month interest free financing should be available from most retailers.

-Robert

Robert (and others),

As you can tell, I am a new member to AVS. In fact, this is my first post. Still, I have been perusing the forums periodically for about a year now. I'm looking at the 9g's, particularly the PRO-151FD and PRO-141FD.

First, I would love to purchase an Elite from a forum sponsor, but after looking at the locations of several of the forum sponsors, there does not appear to be one within 200 miles of the Twin Cities, MN. (To clarify, is the limitation 200 mile radius as the crow flies?) Are there any forum sponsors in the area? Is there a master list of forum sponsors and their addresses? Does that leave me to using Pioneer's dealer search page to find a dealer or are there any forum sponsors within 200 miles of the Twin Cities? Using Pioneer's search page, there appears to be very few options outside of Best Buy/Magnolia or Ultimate Electronics.

Second, has the MSRP on the PRO-141FD and PRO-111FD been announced? I thought you mentioned that it would be determined while you were at the roadshow, but have not been able to find it anywhere. Will they have an MSRP equal to their Elite counterparts, or will they be more like the engineers wanted? Also, do you know if these signature series monitors will be sold at B&M stores like Best Buy/Magnolia or Ultimate Electronics, even though they are designed for system integrators?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bequi View Post
IMHO I see this "glass" thing as a non-issue. Pioneer won't allow that the customers who are paying big bucks for their TVs will be disappointed and will give the company a bad reputation because their non-Signature panels don't show the best PQ to-date. I imagine it is like drinking champagne in a Baccarat glass (Signature) or drinking it in a Cristofle (Elite). They both will feel and look like what they are, very fine crystal, but what will be even more important won't be the glass difference in this case because both are great, but the kind of champagne that is in them. Some Dom Perignon anyone?
--------------------

I prefer Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame in most vintages (I used to be a vineyard manager in the Okanagan)
---------------------

You people crack me up... In this thread we have everything from Lamborghinis to Porsches, AMG Mercedes to BMW, Baccarat to my ***

Wonder what the folks over at the Vizio forum are up to???

... Maybe I'm missing a screw but I wouldn't say that Signatures and Elites might end up costing the same because because, for monitors, you need to buy the extra stuff to get the option of really just watching TV and that extra stuff costs money and the monitor will end up costing different prices in the end because the total investment on the peripherals will vary from individual to individual. ...I'll use myself as an example where a monitor makes sense. I haven't used the speaker(s) or tuner within the TV for more than 20 years since I first set up my home theater. I've already invested in the surround system and always use that while viewing TV. I currently use a MyHD PC card for ATSC OTA reception since I can record HD with that setup and time-shift my viewing so the TV tuner is useless to me. I not only don't want but can't have side speakers on the TV since I need the space beside the display to make room for my center and front channel speakers. (BTW ... I much prefer the center speakers off to the sides of the display rather than below the display because this provides a more accurate positioning for dialog; i.e. the actors are usually speaking at about midway up the screen). I’ve already invested in the supporting equipment that’s missing from the monitor version of this display so there’s no additional cost for me to go that route. The Signature monitor also provides several advantages over the Elite TV like higher quality (won’t need to worry much about dead/stuck pixels etc.), additional calibration capabilities, and I would guess slightly cooler operating temperatures and lower power requirements. The integration features are an added bonus which I may choose to exploit with my own software applications (need more info here). I would have to purchase a stand for the Signature monitor but hopefully the net price for this package won’t be too far off from the price off the Elite TV.

i always ask them about amazon, and they always say that cant match it. you gotta love amazon thoguh. its usally always free shipping without tax. and the white glove delivery.

One guy from BB told me a while ago that they cannot match prices for items sold via the Internet because many places in the Internet didn't have overhead prices, refunds/returns with a lot of restrictions, etc., meanwhile a store like BB has to spend money on all these extras plus the fact that they have a 30 they return policy no questions asked, which makes their losses much larger than Internet vendors. They do match prices from stores though which have similar policies on returns, overhead costs, etc.

If you can wait till early July get Pioneer's DMP-051FD Blu-ray player. Clearly the best BD player. I like your Denon receiver very much, but this year their advantages to paring all three devices Pioneer branded as they actually work better together.

-Robert

Robert, could you elaborate bit on the advantages of paring all three Pioneer devices? What can you do more compared to a solution with another brand in it for the receiver part?

Thanks!

Right I forgot, the info might be useful to someone anyway.
I think the knowledge of the uselessness of the Pioneer Canada warranty is more
useful than anything else. Seriously, after the crap I went through, I'm almost
tempted to buy from the U.S. just for their warranty.

Anyhow, I don't wish to derail the thread.

However, just in case any Pio Canada reps are reading: Stand by your warranty! Discontinue
your crappy 3rd party techs who make assumptions and document them as if its real. I was not
happy that one tech recorded my 'streaks' as IR, and it's forever in your database especially
when I just got the TV.

Ahem, sorry guys... just in case there's a Pio spy out there. :)

What are peoples thoughts about mounting my 5020 over my gas fireplace? Temp. reaches about 105-110 just above the mantle when going for about 30 minutes. I really have no other place to put it (says Wife), so will the extra heat hurt my kuro?

What are peoples thoughts about mounting my 5020 over my gas fireplace? Temp. reaches about 105-110 just above the mantle when going for about 30 minutes. I really have no other place to put it (says Wife), so will the extra heat hurt my kuro?I'm not technically qualified to give you a guaranteed answer, but it seems too hot to me. Plasmas run hot in normal room temperatures.

In the world of electonics, heat is a known killer.

Nambit ...

I was told by the best and most reliable Pioneer Elite dealer in this city that a Pioneer tech went to the house and replaced a customer's power supply at no charge even though the warranty had recently expired (cannot remember for sure by how long). So, I do not know where you live, but at least in this city it would appear Pioneer does honor their warranties above and beyond!

I too would like to know this, why wouldnt d-nice recommend the newer or the highest priced oppo? does the processing not deliver compare to the 980 or does he think its not worth the extra cost to what it represents the extra results?

I know this thread is about pioneer , but I would like to ask one more question here..
about DVD players

1) do I need to buy the oppo 980 or the oppo 983 in order to get the best picture ....lets eliminate the price factor here ( I just read about the differnces on their website... and they boast of a superior video quality in oppo 983 due to a better processor)



THANKS! rober i think you're the only one who's made a comment on my most recently post questions.... i'll re check to see if they are any important or if they been answerd


If both are ISF calibrated the PDP-5020FD will look better. However, for the PDP-5020FD the calibrator would need to go into the service menu to be able to properly adjust the TV.

-Robert

Here's question for anyone in the know, I keep reading that the pioneer blu-ray will work best with the kuro and vica versa, how are they doing this? I mean that really has me puzzled, it's a digital signal shouldn't it always look the same?

PS: Did the shipment date for the new kuros get pushed back?

Here's a quote for all you guys waiting on that 70"+ Kuro:



http://www.betanews.com/article/Hollywood_helps_Pioneer_launch_2008_Kuro_HDTVs/1210296793


I've been waiting for something 70" or bigger. However I don't think it will be this year. At the same time, the new 60" Elite is looking mighty fine and price wise too.

Looks like I'll simply let my new display hold me over till I'm ready to upgrade again.

Here's question for anyone in the know, I keep reading that the pioneer blu-ray will work best with the kuro and vica versa, how are they doing this? I mean that really has me puzzled, it's a digital signal shouldn't it always look the same?
As someone already alluded, it sounds like marketing hype.

........First, I would love to purchase an Elite from a forum sponsor, but after looking at the locations of several of the forum sponsors, there does not appear to be one within 200 miles of the Twin Cities, MN. (To clarify, is the limitation 200 mile radius as the crow flies?) Are there any forum sponsors in the area? Is there a master list of forum sponsors and their addresses? Does that leave me to using Pioneer's dealer search page to find a dealer or are there any forum sponsors within 200 miles of the Twin Cities? Using Pioneer's search page, there appears to be very few options outside of Best Buy/Magnolia or Ultimate Electronics.

Second, has the MSRP on the PRO-141FD and PRO-111FD been announced? I thought you mentioned that it would be determined while you were at the roadshow, but have not been able to find it anywhere. Will they have an MSRP equal to their Elite counterparts, or will they be more like the engineers wanted? Also, do you know if these signature series monitors will be sold at B&M stores like Best Buy/Magnolia or Ultimate Electronics, even though they are designed for system integrators? Thanks in advance for your help.

If you don't have an Elite dealer close to you contact pioneer and see if they will give you their "blessing/permission" to purchase from an Elite dealer of your choice over the phone.:eek:

msrp for the Pro111fd $5000, msrp for the sig series Pro141 has not been officially released yet, $TBD.

Elite dealers should have the Elites and Sig series too, so yes the BB with Mag HT stores should have access to them, but expect supply shortages especially in the initial release months of fall 2008 and probably into next year.

...PS: Did the shipment date for the new kuros get pushed back?

Robert said June and that is what the Pioneer USA press release says for the 5020/6020. They were pretty much on track with the 8G releases last year so hopefully the 9G will be on time too. although it could change or be delayed. Pioneer has had release date problems with their BR players in the past and a few avs members have been waiting on the new flagship avr the SC09tx for awhile but they recently started shipping.

if i get a kuro will it diplay the volume with my elite receiver?

Which Elite receiver do you have? My PRO150FD can control and will display the Volume from my Integra DTR-8.8 through the HDMI 1.3 CEC connections.

Yes
Thanks for the clarification about the PAL/NTSC thing-- that makes me feel much better now

--I see that you are recommending oppo 980 with the 480i setting. Does a sony or panasonic blu-ray player not do the same as the oppo 980.. I am asking this because if the blu-ray doesnt do 480i over HDMI then it means that I`ll have to buy both oppo980 and also a blu-ray player
-- also do you have any preferences btwn oppo 980 and 981/983 noting that oppo983 has a much better video processor based on what the company advertises
---One thing I noticed is that oppo983 handles PAL better without loss of resolution compared to 980..

Thanks for the clarification about the PAL/NTSC thing-- that makes me feel much better now


D-Nice / Robert: The tv supports all types of PALs? I´m looking speciffically if the tv supports PAL N.

If you can wait till early July get Pioneer's DMP-051FD Blu-ray player. Clearly the best BD player. I like your Denon receiver very much, but this year their advantages to paring all three devices Pioneer branded as they actually work better together.

-Robert

Is there any press releases on the dmp-051fd? I googled it and got nothing...

Is it profile 1.1 or 2.0? I heard the super duper pio 2.0 blu ray would not be released until later this fall.

cliftonite ^^ More than I originally thought. I have some very excellent photo's I took at the road show of the PRO-110 and PRO-111 that illustrate the deeper black level of the 9G panel.

If I can't stay up much later tonight, I'll post them on my site by tomorrow.

-Robert

Robert,

Do you have any pictures of the 5020/6020? When you mean your website, is it the value electronics website or a different web page?

Is there any press releases on the dmp-051fd? I googled it and got nothing...

Is it profile 1.1 or 2.0? I heard the super duper pio 2.0 blu ray would not be released until later this fall.

it is profile 1.1.

Here's question for anyone in the know, I keep reading that the pioneer blu-ray will work best with the kuro and vica versa, how are they doing this? I mean that really has me puzzled, it's a digital signal shouldn't it always look the same?As someone already alluded, it sounds like marketing hype.Ah... another one of the many urban myths that abound in the AVS Forum. :rolleyes:

Sony owns Blu-ray... go for a profile 2.0 40 GB PS3 or the upcoming BDP-S550 (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/sony-announces-bdp-s350-bdp-s550-first-new-blu-ray-players-sin/). Both devices are the perfect compliment for a Kuro PDP. ;)

it is profile 1.1.

Did robert mean bdp-51fd?

Robert, could you elaborate bit on the advantages of paring all three Pioneer devices? What can you do more compared to a solution with another brand in it for the receiver part?

Thanks!

Without my note or much sleep I'll tell you when you have a new Pioneer AVR connected to a new Pioneer BD player the AVR sends its clock timing to the BD player for 100% jitter free CD playback. A lot of our demonstrations were using Pioneer AVRs with two channel audio CDs and the audio A/B comparison was easily detectable by most participants in the class. I have never seen a CE company develop components to enhance their performance, Pioneer did it.

One of the things I got from the road show is the dedication to the best two channel audio quality possible that Pioneer has developed in a multi-channel system. Pioneer knew they pulled it off and that audiophiles would love their performance and Pioneer continually demonstrated it in several of their well designed demo rooms.

Another feature is all Pioneer remotes and menus are completely redesigned to be like each other so ease of operation and the consumer can use any Pioneer remote to operate flawlessly any Pioneer device.

Unrelated, but I must tell you when I viewed Pioneer's BD51FD BD player pared with the PRO-151FD my jaw dropped. I have never seen image quality so fine and detailed, crisp, sharp, and with a 3-D look that I have never seen before on any display anywhere. The improved image quality is a result of matching the up-converted 12 Bit per channel BD video with Pioneer's superior black level and exceptional gray scale and color accuracy reproduction. Truly an absolutely amazing experience.

-Robert

...snip...

Unrelated, but I must tell you when I viewed Pioneer's BD51FD BD player pared with the PRO-151FD my jaw dropped. I have never seen image quality so fine and detailed, crisp, sharp, and with a 3-D look that I have never seen before on any display anywhere. The improved image quality is a result of matching the up-converted 12 Bit per channel BD video with Pioneer's superior black level and exceptional gray scale and color accuracy reproduction. Truly an absolutely amazing experience.

-Robert

Could a recommendation be any stronger.

Without my note or much sleep I'll tell you when you have a new Pioneer AVR connected to a new Pioneer BD player the AVR sends its clock timing to the BD player for 100% jitter free CD playback.
That sounds very clever! :)

Unrelated, but I must tell you when I viewed Pioneer's BD51FD BD player pared with the PRO-151FD my jaw dropped.
I've read that the new BD player will have a "Kuro" mode which will output data in a way optimized for Kuro plasmas. Do you have more detailed information about what exactly this means? I'm interested in *technical* information. Thanks! :)

I took the plunge yesterday and pre-ordered an Elite 151FD.

Robert,
I too have questions about the PIP/PAP. I have Direct TV and want to display the two pictures side by side using component and HDMI, HDMI and HDMI, HDMI and Composite will even work. Is this possible or is the PIP like the 8G where you can only display Video Input 1,2,3,... and RF input side by side?

--I see that you are recommending oppo 980 with the 480i setting. Does a sony or panasonic blu-ray player not do the same as the oppo 980.. I am asking this because if the blu-ray doesnt do 480i over HDMI then it means that I`ll have to buy both oppo980 and also a blu-ray playerThe oppo sends an unaltered 480i picture over HDMI (like SDI modded dvd players). I have yet to see any BD player capable of that. If you don't want the abousolute best picture from 4080i discs, a BD player will be ok with it's upconversion.

-- also do you have any preferences btwn oppo 980 and 981/983 noting that oppo983 has a much better video processor based on what the company advertisesThe oppo 983 is the best upconverting player on the market today. However, it's not needed with the Kuros as Pioneer's processing it top notch.

---One thing I noticed is that oppo983 handles PAL better without loss of resolution compared to 980..I don't know anything about this one.

Quote:
I prefer Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame in most vintages (I used to be a vineyard manager in the Okanagan)
---------------------

You people crack me up... In this thread we have everything from Lamborghinis to Porsches, AMG Mercedes to BMW, Baccarat to my ***

Wonder what the folks over at the Vizio forum are up to???

Walmart to KMart?

I took the plunge yesterday and pre-ordered an Elite 151FD.

Robert,
I too have questions about the PIP/PAP. I have Direct TV and want to display the two pictures side by side using component and HDMI, HDMI and HDMI, HDMI and Composite will even work. Is this possible or is the PIP like the 8G where you can only display Video Input 1,2,3,... and RF input side by side?For PIP/PAP to work, one of the pictures has to be from the tuner.

Sony owns Blu-ray... go for a profile 2.0 40 GB PS3 or the upcoming BDP-S550 (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/sony-announces-bdp-s350-bdp-s550-first-new-blu-ray-players-sin/). Both devices are the perfect compliment for a Kuro PDP. ;)Actualy Sony doesn't "own" BD.....Panasonic does as they have the most IPs of any BD Association member.

D-Nice / Robert: The tv supports all types of PALs? I´m looking speciffically if the tv supports PAL N.When I speak of PAL support, I'm strickly speaking of DVD playback capabiliy. And to that extent, PAL is PAL....so yes.

Is there any press releases on the dmp-051fd? I googled it and got nothing...

Is it profile 1.1 or 2.0? I heard the super duper pio 2.0 blu ray would not be released until later this fall.1.1

Without my note or much sleep I'll tell you when you have a new Pioneer AVR connected to a new Pioneer BD player the AVR sends its clock timing to the BD player for 100% jitter free CD playback. A lot of our demonstrations were using Pioneer AVRs with two channel audio CDs and the audio A/B comparison was easily detectable by most participants in the class. I have never seen a CE company develop components to enhance their performance, Pioneer did it.

One of the things I got from the road show is the dedication to the best two channel audio quality possible that Pioneer has developed in a multi-channel system. Pioneer knew they pulled it off and that audiophiles would love their performance and Pioneer continually demonstrated it in several of their well designed demo rooms.

Another feature is all Pioneer remotes and menus are completely redesigned to be like each other so ease of operation and the consumer can use any Pioneer remote to operate flawlessly any Pioneer device.

Unrelated, but I must tell you when I viewed Pioneer's BD51FD BD player pared with the PRO-151FD my jaw dropped. I have never seen image quality so fine and detailed, crisp, sharp, and with a 3-D look that I have never seen before on any display anywhere. The improved image quality is a result of matching the up-converted 12 Bit per channel BD video with Pioneer's superior black level and exceptional gray scale and color accuracy reproduction. Truly an absolutely amazing experience.

-Robert
This is good to know... I was actually planning to buy the new sony s-550 blu ray player, but now I might go for the pioneer...
Any idea how the pioneer BD51FD compares to the sony S-550.
I am a total stranger to blu ray world...sorry if I`m sounding dumb here.

cliftonite ^^ More than I originally thought. I have some very excellent photo's I took at the road show of the PRO-110 and PRO-111 that illustrate the deeper black level of the 9G panel.

If I can't stay up much later tonight, I'll post them on my site by tomorrow.

-Robert

Come on Robert! Post those baby's already! :D

arunkandra, go for Pioneer's new BD player.

Sorry to all, but I'm delayed on getting my photos up as I must attend a meeting and will be back this afternoon.

-Robert

The oppo sends an unaltered 480i picture over HDMI (like SDI modded dvd players). I have yet to see any BD player capable of that. If you don't want the abousolute best picture from 4080i discs, a BD player will be ok with it's upconversion.

The oppo 983 is the best upconverting player on the market today. However, it's not needed with the Kuros as Pioneer's processing it top notch.

I don't know anything about this one.
-Do the standard DVD`s have 480i or 480p format.?
-What exactly do the progressive scan players do with the SD dvd`s?
--what exactly does the pro 151fd do to the SD dvd`s output
-what do you mean by the blu ray player doing OK with up conversion of SD dvd`s...is it not true that regardless of the source, the pioneer still upscales the image to 1080p with the help of inbuilt scaler
--

arunkandra, go for Pioneer's new BD player.

Sorry to all, but I'm delayed on getting my photos up as I must attend a meeting and will be back this afternoon.

-Robert
what is this thing with profile 1.1 and 2.0 in the BD players

.... my jaw dropped....
-Robert


You didn't say how many inches :D

Exactly the same as the PRO-151 without speakers, which is also the same as the PDP-6020, 57 11/16" wide.

-Robert

What happened to the ultra thin bezel (~10mm)?

If you can wait till early July get Pioneer's DMP-051FD Blu-ray player. Clearly the best BD player. I like your Denon receiver very much, but this year their advantages to paring all three devices Pioneer branded as they actually work better together.

-Robert

If I have a Pioneer VSX-94TXH will I be able to realize these advantages if I get a 6020 and the DMP-051FD?

This is good to know... I was actually planning to buy the new sony s-550 blu ray player, but now I might go for the pioneer...
Any idea how the pioneer BD51FD compares to the sony S-550.
I am a total stranger to blu ray world...sorry if I`m sounding dumb here.

I too was planing on buying the Sony-550 because it will feature BD-Live (and thus Ethernet) and USB (for external) storage, has PiP (BonusView) and 1GB of onboard storage. As for the rest of the specs, well, expect TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, dts-HD (and dts-HD Master in the S550), AVCHD and xvYCC color support, and, of course 1080 60/24p. The Sony Will also be new profile 2.0 (capable) and (decodes all)

How does the Pioneer player compare?

I believe there is a blu-ray forum.

The oppo sends an unaltered 480i picture over HDMI (like SDI modded dvd players). I have yet to see any BD player capable of that. If you don't want the abousolute best picture from 4080i discs, a BD player will be ok with it's upconversion.

The oppo 983 is the best upconverting player on the market today. However, it's not needed with the Kuros as Pioneer's processing it top notch.


I have Toshiba A2 HD-DVD player. Is Oppo still better? I am absolutely amazed with A2's upconversion, really makes it look like SD-DVD is HD-DVD.

I've read that the new BD player will have a "Kuro" mode which will output data in a way optimized for Kuro plasmas. Do you have more detailed information about what exactly this means? I'm interested in *technical* information. Thanks! :)

I've seen this referenced many times but have yet to see anyone explain what it is or how it's accomplished.

If I have a Pioneer VSX-94TXH will I be able to realize these advantages if I get a 6020 and the DMP-051FD?

+1

I too was planing on buying the Sony-550 because it will feature BD-Live (and thus Ethernet) and USB (for external) storage, has PiP (BonusView) and 1GB of onboard storage. As for the rest of the specs, well, expect TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, dts-HD (and dts-HD Master in the S550), AVCHD and xvYCC color support, and, of course 1080 60/24p. The Sony Will also be new profile 2.0 (capable) and (decodes all)

How does the Pioneer player compare?
This thread from the Blue Ray forum may help provide the comparisons you're seeking:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980672

You might also try clicking around in other threads on that forum for more in-depth info.

I believe there is a blu-ray forum.

I agree ... but if the new Pioneer's are improved by mating the systems, it is worth knowing (at least I have found it of interest [if it is just 'marketing' ... it is 'good' marketing :D])

Here is a mini-review and the PR for the Blu-ray:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/07/pioneer-introduces-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-blu-ray-players/

I have Toshiba A2 HD-DVD player. Is Oppo still better? I am absolutely amazed with A2's upconversion, really makes it look like SD-DVD is HD-DVD.

FWIW, I had an A2 but returned it a few weeks ago when Walmart offered the full ruturn on HDDVD players (even purchased on Nov. 2, '07 $98 deal like mine). I was also impressed with the A2's upconversion of SD DVD, hooked via HDMI to my 5080. Now I am using a 10 year old JVC DVD player through S-Video and so far I have not noticed any degredation on SD DVDs compared with SD DVDs on the A2 (have only watched 3 DVDs since). I am VERY impressed with the Kuro upconversion abilities!

Without my note or much sleep I'll tell you when you have a new Pioneer AVR connected to a new Pioneer BD player the AVR sends its clock timing to the BD player for 100% jitter free CD playback. A lot of our demonstrations were using Pioneer AVRs with two channel audio CDs and the audio A/B comparison was easily detectable by most participants in the class. I have never seen a CE company develop components to enhance their performance, Pioneer did it.

One of the things I got from the road show is the dedication to the best two channel audio quality possible that Pioneer has developed in a multi-channel system. Pioneer knew they pulled it off and that audiophiles would love their performance and Pioneer continually demonstrated it in several of their well designed demo rooms.

Another feature is all Pioneer remotes and menus are completely redesigned to be like each other so ease of operation and the consumer can use any Pioneer remote to operate flawlessly any Pioneer device.

Unrelated, but I must tell you when I viewed Pioneer's BD51FD BD player pared with the PRO-151FD my jaw dropped. I have never seen image quality so fine and detailed, crisp, sharp, and with a 3-D look that I have never seen before on any display anywhere. The improved image quality is a result of matching the up-converted 12 Bit per channel BD video with Pioneer's superior black level and exceptional gray scale and color accuracy reproduction. Truly an absolutely amazing experience.

-Robert

While I'm glad to hear that Pioneer made the effort to max out two channel performance, this really isn't groundbraking. Denon did it with the Denon Link a few years back. DL 3 would appear to provide a similar benefit. Of course it has the same problem as Pioneer, it only works with Denon equipment. Regardless, so many things can affect two channel audio one has to remain somewhat skeptical of a factory arranged demo. I'm not disputing what Robert heard, just be careful about expecting to much from matched equipment.

On the video side, there are comments all over the place on the quality of BD players. The consenses is that amoung the top players there is little real difference in picture quality. Perhaps a bit more significant on a large FP system. Having your set ISF'd to match your player may provide a greater return than another player. I'm very excited about the 151, I suspect it was the main reason Robert saw what he did. While there may be synergey between the two Pioneer units, I'll believe the new Pioneer BD player will look better on the 151 than a PS3, calibrated for the PS3, when I see it.

Because the MSRP of the 111 is $1,000 more than the MSRP of the 5020, should I assume the street price of the 111 is $1,000 more than the 5020? Or would it be a greater difference, since there's less competition on the Elites (given the few retailers authorized to sell them)? I am still pretty set on preordering the 5020, but I'm still considering going for the Elite 111. Thanks in advance.

I prefer Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame in most vintages ;) (I used to be a vineyard manager in the Okanagan)

Boy, you sure have good taste. Pioneer TVs AND Veuve Cliquot La Grande Dame. You actually win. I mentioned good old Dom, but in reality a La Grande Dame rose brut 1988 takes the cake especially while watching a program on a KURO.

But re: TV glass. I am no D-Nice or any of this amazing knowledgeable people in this forum, but for the life of me I can't imagine that we will have the last complete Pioneer disappoint us in any way. Given their reputation and past experience I am sure they will give us great non-Elites, Elites and Signatures. ;)

Also, with all this discussion about the Kuro's upconverting/deinterlacing abilities, do both the non-Elites and Elites do well? I know the Elite has different software and presumably does a 'better' job, but would the experts (ahem, D-Nice) still recommend the Oppo 980 with the 5020?

D-Nice ...

A review of the 8G from HDTV Test noted 'slightly indistinct shadow detail due to skewed 0-20% gamma tracking'.

Has this been fixed in the 9G? Do you even agree that this was an issue on 8G?
Thanks.

Sorry, no dealer is permitted to sell Elites beyond the 200 mile radius in Pioneer's Elite dealer agreement. Pioneer branded is OK and 12 month interest free financing should be available from most retailers.

-Robert

Its good to know dealers Elite dealers/distributors in every state then ;)

Well we all know the #1 dealer in NY :) (Robert)

Because the MSRP of the 111 is $1,000 more than the MSRP of the 5020, should I assume the street price of the 111 is $1,000 more than the 5020? Or would it be a greater difference, since there's less competition on the Elites (given the few retailers authorized to sell them)? I am still pretty set on preordering the 5020, but I'm still considering going for the Elite 111. Thanks in advance.

You are correct. The Elites don't have the same discount factor as the non-Elites, in part, if not fully, due to limited distribution. If you contact some of the forum sponsors who have posted in this thread, you will quickly see that. Same goes for B&M pricing. That is one reason why going from non-Elite to Elite for the more "casual" Pioneer owner is such as hard decision.

Sorry, no dealer is permitted to sell Elites beyond the 200 mile radius in Pioneer's Elite dealer agreement. Pioneer branded is OK and 12 month interest free financing should be available from most retailers.

-Robert

Unless I am missing something, there isnt a AVS sponsor who is authorized to sell Pioneer plasmas who is offering 12 months interest free financing.

If I am wrong, please let me know which one does or PM me.

Thanks, as I am ready to order a 60-inch 9G.

Mike

I'll use myself as an example where a monitor makes sense. I haven't used the speaker(s) or tuner within the TV for more than 20 years since I first set up my home theater. I've already invested in the surround system and always use that while viewing TV. I currently use a MyHD PC card for ATSC OTA reception since I can record HD with that setup and time-shift my viewing so the TV tuner is useless to me. I not only don't want but can't have side speakers on the TV since I need the space beside the display to make room for my center and front channel speakers. (BTW ... I much prefer the center speakers off to the sides of the display rather than below the display because this provides a more accurate positioning for dialog; i.e. the actors are usually speaking at about midway up the screen). I’ve already invested in the supporting equipment that’s missing from the monitor version of this display so there’s no additional cost for me to go that route. The Signature monitor also provides several advantages over the Elite TV like higher quality (won’t need to worry much about dead/stuck pixels etc.), additional calibration capabilities, and I would guess slightly cooler operating temperatures and lower power requirements. The integration features are an added bonus which I may choose to exploit with my own software applications (need more info here). I would have to purchase a stand for the Signature monitor but hopefully the net price for this package won’t be too far off from the price off the Elite TV.

Xortam, I totally understand your situation and I did assume that people using mostly external components with their TVs would be doing the same thing since, as you say, these components don't get any use anyway. Mostly I made my comment because I started to get the impression that several people were considering the Signature not because they were just monitors and that's all they needed, but that they wanted to get a Signature because it is using the super-duper A+ *handpicked* glass. In other words, it seemed to me that the glass itself was driving the choice between a monitor or a TV. I might be misunderstanding their reasons though.

I have Toshiba A2 HD-DVD player. Is Oppo still better? I am absolutely amazed with A2's upconversion, really makes it look like SD-DVD is HD-DVD.What D-Nice was saying is that the Kuro is better. Using the Oppo 980 gives you the 480i data from the DVD direct to the Kuro using HDMI without added processing. That's "like SDI modded dvd players."

Ah... another one of the many urban myths that abound in the AVS Forum. :rolleyes:

Sony owns Blu-ray... go for a profile 2.0 40 GB PS3 or the upcoming BDP-S550 (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/sony-announces-bdp-s350-bdp-s550-first-new-blu-ray-players-sin/). Both devices are the perfect compliment for a Kuro PDP. ;)


Sony is FAR from "owning" blu-ray. Profile is less important than sound and picture quality. Obviously you haven't seen the 51 or the 05. They both "owned" PS3 in PQ, upconversion AND sound quality (CD playback).

and it powers off FASTER than the PS3 :p

Unless I am missing something, there isnt a AVS sponsor who is authorized to sell Pioneer plasmas who is offering 12 months interest free financing.

If I am wrong, please let me know which one does or PM me.

Thanks, as I am ready to order a 60-inch 9G.

Mike

We are talking Elites here only.

-Do the standard DVD`s have 480i or 480p format.?Almost without exception DVDs use a 480i carrier.

-What exactly do the progressive scan players do with the SD dvd`s?They de-interlace 480i carrier to 480p before outputing the signal.

--what exactly does the pro 151fd do to the SD dvd`s outputAny Kuro display will de-interlace the 480i carrier, and then scale to 1080p.

-what do you mean by the blu ray player doing OK with up conversion of SD dvd`s...is it not true that regardless of the source, the pioneer still upscales the image to 1080p with the help of inbuilt scalerThey both do the same thing. Which one does it better? D-Nice is maintaining that the Kuro displays do it better. A lot of people agree with him. ;)

If the source (DVD player) does part of the processing of the image signal, then all the Kuro can do is finish the job. Any errors introduced by the source device will still be in the image when it's displayed.

Sony is FAR from "owning" blu-ray. Profile is less important than sound and picture quality. Obviously you haven't seen the 51 or the 05. They both "owned" PS3 in PQ, upconversion AND sound quality (CD playback).

and it powers off FASTER than the PS3 :p

How fast does it power on?

I don't give a Rat's ___ how long it takes to power off, I want to know how long it takes to start watching a movie, after I pop in the disc?

Is the 05FD just as responsive as a PS3?

Good Point HDPeet....we have a few BD players on demo at my BB and they take FOREVER to load/play....it should not take 30-50 seconds to see an image on the screen after the disc is loaded....my PS3 only takes 7-8 secs.

ps - Where are the pics Robert? We're dying here!
pps - Are 6020's pushed back till late June/early July???
ppps - Anyone know a good Canadian Pioneer Elite dealer?

How fast does it power on?

I don't give a Rat's ___ how long it takes to power off, I want to know how long it takes to start watching a movie, after I pop in the disc?

Is the 05FD just as responsive as a PS3?

I doubt it. I haven't seen a standalone yet that is as zippy as a PS3. I'd like to know as well. I doubt I'd replace my PS3 as my BD-player though cause it's prob. not worth it.

HDPeeT, Pioneer's new BD players are much faster than previous BD stand alone players. Here's some data.

Power on: BD-95FD 48 seconds BD-05FD 15 seconds

Play a BDMV: BD-95FD 30 seconds BD-05FD 20 seconds

Play a BD J-Live BD-95FD forever BD-05FD way quicker

-Robert

the 05 plays Ratatouille virtually instantly. Usually there is a pause, then you see the dancing rat plays the hula hoop for MANY cycles (about 1.5 cycles on the PS3), but the on the 05 it starts the dancing rats immediately and the hula hoop didn't even take one full cycle.

HDPeeT, Pioneer's new BD players are much faster than previous BD stand alone players. Here's some data.

Power on: BD-95FD 48 seconds BD-05FD 15 seconds

Play a BDMV: BD-95FD 30 seconds BD-05FD 20 seconds

Play a BD J-Live BD-95FD forever BD-05FD way quicker

-Robert

Thanks Robert.

Chris Walker said that load times have indeed been improved, and according to you, the PQ from these players is astounding, so I'm feeling good about that.

Did you get a chance to play around with these players yourself, to get a feel for how much faster they really were?

HDPeeT, Pioneer's new BD players are much faster than previous BD stand alone players. Here's some data.

Power on: BD-95FD 48 seconds BD-05FD 15 seconds

Play a BDMV: BD-95FD 30 seconds BD-05FD 20 seconds

Play a BD J-Live BD-95FD forever BD-05FD way quicker

-Robert

Do you see any advantage of getting the 05fd over the 51fd? Robert

the 05FD uses better (heavier) construction which will reduce vibration further. It will also uses aluminum faceplate as opposed to plastic.

Furthermore, in terms of picture customization, there are a lot more parameters that can be tweaked on the 05FD. and for the fan of bitrate meter: the 05FD actually separates the video bitrate from the audio bitrate, not just a mux bitrate that's available on various current BD players (PS3 included)

Further, the support is impressive. Heh, for those folks
out there who like to download AVCHD material (shame on you), the PS3 will
easily play it no problems. :)


Even my 1st gen Pioneer blu-ray player plays AVCHD materials with no problem. :rolleyes:

HDPeeT, Pioneer's new BD players are much faster than previous BD stand alone players. Here's some data.

Power on: BD-95FD 48 seconds BD-05FD 15 seconds

Play a BDMV: BD-95FD 30 seconds BD-05FD 20 seconds

Play a BD J-Live BD-95FD forever BD-05FD way quicker

-Robert

I'm a little confused. I don't care if t takes a minute to start as I'm getting ready to watch a 2hr movie. I'll take a slow load if I get the best picture. The load and unload time is part of the equation, but way down the list on my criteria.

I have Toshiba A2 HD-DVD player. Is Oppo still better? I am absolutely amazed with A2's upconversion, really makes it look like SD-DVD is HD-DVD.

^^^^

what he said but i have the HD-A3 for that purpose i bought under $80 for the upconversation reason....

sadly as it seems i tried comparing that A3 to my 360 on a season set of dbz





How fast does it power on?

I don't give a Rat's ___ how long it takes to power off, I want to know how long it takes to start watching a movie, after I pop in the disc?

Is the 05FD just as responsive as a PS3?

^^^^^^^^

i too want to know how powering up it takes and how if it crashes



HDPeeT, Pioneer's new BD players are much faster than previous BD stand alone players. Here's some data.

Power on: BD-95FD 48 seconds BD-05FD 15 seconds

Play a BDMV: BD-95FD 30 seconds BD-05FD 20 seconds

Play a BD J-Live BD-95FD forever BD-05FD way quicker

-Robert


quite an inprovement but if this is it as its already an inprovement bd is still not quite their.....

btw guys im not getting email notifications any clues? yes i email notify option and my email does not have spam on this page....

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

OK,
I have been away for about a week and now I see on the first page of this thread that the availibility for the PRO-11FD and the PRO-151Fd has changed from "JUNE" to "TBA".......

Whats going on here??
Pioneer website pressroom still shows june as the release date for the elites,
Have there been some new developements???
And will this hinder me from gettting my beautiful Pro-151FD in june as I plan to?:confused:

the problem is that slower load does NOT yield better picture. I'd choose MUCH faster load vs snail-paced load especially when the PQ is the same (or better)

the problem is that slower load does NOT yield better picture. I'd choose MUCH faster load vs snail-paced load especially when the PQ is the same (or better)

I agree with you 100%. What I'm saying is I'd look at the picture, sound, conversion capabilities etc before I worry about the laod time.

Please take the BD and HD-DVD stuff to the appropriate forum. Thank you.

I agree with you 100%. What I'm saying is I'd look at the picture, sound, conversion capabilities etc before I worry about the laod time.

I think we all agree there.

I just want to know how responsive the new players are compared to a PS3. That includes things like power-up, load times, how quickly it can navigate menus and the movie itself (fast forward, rewind, changing chapters etc.).

There are a lot of things I don't like about the PS3 as a Blu-ray player, but you have to admit, it's faster than a Cheetah on speed compared to the standalone players available right now.

Please take the BD and HD-DVD stuff to the appropriate forum. Thank you.

I apologize. I'm following several threads and sometimes forget where I'm at. You can't always tell from reading the posts what the thread is about. I will be more observant from now on.

I think the talk about Pioneer's new Blu-ray players is relevant. They are supposed to have special features to enhance performance with the Kuros.

We Want Pics, We Want Pics!

It's O.K. to talk about the plasma or Kuro specific features of the new Pioneer BD player but please limit it to that context. These threads get way too bloated as it is.

I have another question for those who attended the road show or have insider information. Did Pioneer state a policy for support on their Signature monitors? I'm concerned that any repairs on those monitors will be done with "Signature qualified" components so the premium quality isn't degraded. Will Pioneer make available cherry picked replacement parts for servicing these sets and will their certification be made available to the customer?

chaps---this one would still be nice to hear about:

[1] can the Kuro pass out the audio part of its HDMI audio feed back out from the rear, perhaps as TOSlink? I figure this would make it much easier to synchronize the AV receiver and the display. I had a JVC HTIB system that was far off from my Sony RPTV---so bad, it was totally unusable.

[PS: I would love a TV that was also the amplifier, so that my speakers (or at least rear speakers) plug into the TV, instead of into something that needs to synchronize.]

[2] is there any fan noise? in other words, if you turn down the volume all the way and sit 6 feet away in a quiet room, can you detect with closed ears whether the TV is on or off? I guess this applies to 6010 owners if no one has a 6020.

[3] I think the arrival date is June. Wonder if it is scheduled for early June or late June...