Finally :)


Press Releases:

PDP-5020FD/6020FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Continues+to+Surpass+Black+Level+Performance+with+Ne w+Line+of+2008+KURO+Televisions)

PRO-101FD/111FD/141FD/151FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Displays+with+New+S ignature+Series+of+Monitors)


Pricing:

PDP-5020FD $4000 MSRP
PDP-6020FD $5500 MSRP
PRO-111FD $5000 MSRP
PRO-151FD $6500 MSRP
PRO-101FD $5500 MSRP
PRO-141FD $7000 MSRP



PDP-5020FD/6020FD Specs:

- High-Definition 1080p Resolution (1920 x 1080p)

- 50”/60" Diagonal Class / 16:9 Wide-Screen Aspect Ratio

- New Deeper Intense Blacks for Unmatched Contrast (5x Previous Generation)

- New Thinner Cosmetic Design

- New Home Media Gallery

- Exclusive cell structure with crystal emissive layer for a more intense black with added detail

- Improved filter for enhanced contrast in bright environments

- Improved ASIC video processing and scaling for the ultimate in Standard-Definition and High-Definition video performance

- Detachable bottom speaker with fully integrated digital amplifier for ››pristine clarity and accuracy of sound

- New, Improved Optimum Mode. Automatically analyzes and adjusts audio and video settings according to specific room light conditions and type of light and color. Program content is also monitored and finely adjusted so movies, sports and news are all faithfully reproduced. Includes OSD with status.

- Smooth Film mode to eliminate motion judder in 3:2 Pulldown (60Hz) ››providing natural even playback of content created by film

- 4 Independent HDMI 1.3 inputs with HDMI-CEC control and the ability ››to accept 1080p 24/60Hz signal

- Room Light Sensor for automatic picture adjustment

- Standard 3:2 (60Hz) and Advanced PureCinema with 3:3 Pulldown (72Hz) for accurate playback of film content

- Fully Integrated ATSC and NTSC Tuner with Clear QAM

- V-Chip Parental Control

- Remote Control – Glow in the dark / Preset Mode

- A/V Selection Memory – 7 options for viewing preferences: Optimum / Dynamic / Performance / Movie / Sports / Game / Standard (PC input: only for Standard)

- Aspect Ratio Control – 9 positions: Auto* / Full / “Dot by Dot” / Zoom* / Cinema* / 4:3 / Wide* (only for SD) / Wide1* (only for HD) / Wide2* (only for HD) *Except PC signal

- Advanced Picture-in-Picture (4 positions), Picture-side-Picture 3 positions) and Still Picture capability

- After-Image Reduction Function
- Orbiter (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
- Auto Size (Off/ Natural / Wide-Zoom) Side Mask Detection (Mode 1 – for black side masks / Mode 2 – for black & illustrated side masks)
- Side Mask Brightness Sync (Fixed / Auto)
- Video Pattern (White Bar)
- Game Control Preference (AV Selection: only Game) (Off / On)

- Room Light Sensor (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)


PRO-111FD/151FD Specs:

- High-Definition 1080p Resolution (1920 x 1080p)

- 50”/60" Diagonal Class / 16:9 Wide-Screen Aspect Ratio

- 1080 Progressive Image Reproduction with ability to accept 480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / and TRUE 1080p 24fps signals

- New Deeper, Intense Blacks for Unmatched Contrast (5x Previous Generation)

- New Thinner Cosmetic Design with ››Elegant Acrylic Bezel

- New, Improved Optimum Mode. Automatically analyses and adjusts audio and video settings according to specific room light conditions and type of light and color. Program content is also monitored and finely adjusted so movies, sports and news are all faithfully reproduced. Includes OSD with status.

- New External Color Sensor

- Room Light Sensor for automatic picture adjustment adjustment

- PureCinema Smooth Film Motion mode to eliminate motion jutter in 3:2 Pulldown (60Hz) providing natural even playback of content created on film

- 4 Independent HDMI 1.3 inputs with HDMI-CEC control and the ability ››to accept 1080p 24/60Hz signal

- Standard 3:2 (60Hz) and Advanced PureCinema with 3:3 Pulldown (72Hz) for accurate playback of film content

- Fully integrated ATSC and NTSC Tuner with Clear QAM

- Home Media Gallery – offering a multimedia experience to enjoy movies, music and photos through an existing home network or USB memory device

- ISFccc Calibration Ready for professional customization of plasma picture according to personal preferences for contrast, tint, color as well as room conditions for both day and nighttime viewing. Includes:
- Independent Gamma Control (R / G / B) for heightened color ––calibration

- V-Chip Parental Control

- Remote Control – Illuminated / Preset Mode / Learning Mode

- New Advanced Redesigned GUI

- A/V Selection Memory – 10 options for viewing preferences: Optimum / Performance / Sports / Movie / PURE / Game / Standard*/ ISF-Day / ISF-Night / ISF-Auto (PC input: only Standard)

- Aspect Ratio Control – 9 positions: Auto* / Full / “Dot by Dot” / Zoom* / Cinema* / 4:3 / Wide* (only for SD) / Wide1* (only for HD) / Wide2* (only for HD) *Except PC signal

- Advanced Picture-in-Picture (4 positions), Picture-side-Picture for use with Home Media Gallery & Broadcast and Still Picture capability

- After-Image Reduction Function
- Orbiter (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
- Auto Size (Off/ Natural / Wide-Zoom)
- Side Mask Detection (Mode 1 – for black side masks / Mode 2 – for black & illustrated side masks)
- Side Mask Brightness Sync (Fixed / Auto)
- Video Pattern (White Bar)
- Game Control Preference (AV Selection: only Game) (Off / On)

- Fine Tune Setting for ultimate picture control of color temperature, noise reduction and color management

- Intelligent Mode (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)

- Room Light Sensor & New External Color Sensor (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)



PRO-101FD/141FD Signature Series Specs:

TBA


Pictures:

PDP-6020FD
http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2471989921_25a60847db_o.jpg


PRO-151FD
http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2472813344_4b2b02de46_o.jpg


PRO-141FD
http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2472813324_bca809536d_o.jpg


Manuals:

PDP-5020FD/6020FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PDP-5020FD_OperatingInstructions0428.pdf)

PRO-111FD/151FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PRO-111FD_OperatingInstructions0514.pdf)

PRO-101FD/141FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PRO-101FD_OperatingInstructions0708.pdf)


Cut Sheets:

Here is my review of the 6020FD. Many thanks to Robert at Value Electronics for sending me an evaluation unit.

Here is my review of the 111FD. Again, many thanks to Robert at Value Electronics for sending me this unit. And a special thank you to AVS member drkddell for painstakingly proofing my work.

All of my official settings are located in the link below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1053444

Reserved 4

Reserved 5

D-Nice ... is there a good chance we can start seeing the 5020s in local B&M stores (best buy, magnolia, etc) by early June?

Also, any idea if Pioneer has made any internal design changes to the 9Gs to address the buzzing noise (reported by folks in the buzzing thread)

I'm so excited.http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/hyper.gif

How soon before you get your hands on a 9g and put up some settings?

I have to join in too... :D

D-Nice ... is there a good chance we can start seeing the 5020s in local B&M stores (best buy, magnolia, etc) by early June?

Also, any idea if Pioneer has made any internal design changes to the 9Gs to address the buzzing noise (reported by folks in the buzzing thread)BB should have then by week 3 of June.

Buzzing??? What Buzz :) New power supplies in the 9Gs.

Alas, that Pro 141FD does not appear to have a thinner bezel...it seems it is only thinner in terms of depth, not width.

I'm so excited.http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/hyper.gif

How soon before you get your hands on a 9g and put up some settings?That's up to Pioneer :)

These should be great displays.

Chris

D-Nice,
Can you post black level specs and brightness specs?

Chris

What is this "Seamless Orbiter"?

Does that mean no black bar on the sides of the image when it's being shifted?
No more smearing in Dot by Dot when using 1080 line patterns, as some have reported?

hey D-nice, great stuff, might want to fix the availability on the pricing matrix you got there....according to the press releases the elites are coming June. Finally an official thread.

D-Nice,
Can you post black level specs and brightness specs?

ChrisNot until I get my hands on one. Pioneer does not "officially" have those numbers. I cannot post the "unofficial" ones beyond what I have previously posted.

Maximum peak brightness will still be lower compared to....say Panasonic.

God, they are so close yet so far... :(

Pioneer is just cruel for taunting us the way they are... by the way anyone know the canadian MRSP?

D-Nice,

Thanks for the official thread.

Everyone:
I need some guidance on my second TV purchase. I posted a while ago in one of the predecessor threads about a two-TV setup in my new house. The media room will have an elite 60" -151. My dilemma involves the family room, which is suited for a 50".

Should I:

A) grab one of the close out 8G elite -1150s (my seating distance is ~13')
B) go for one of the remaining 8G 5010s
C) wait for the 9G 5020

Springing for BOTH a -111 and 151 is simply not in the financial cards.

Any suggestions?

KDD

i wonder what the contrast ratio will be. its gotta be better than panasonics so called 1,000,000 to 1.

Are the dimensions known yet (bezel to bezel width, pedestal depth)? Same as last year?

Look out ****** little Toshiba 27" CRT, the day has finally come for you to take up residence in my parent's room as their "oh crap I'm falling asleep so I'll 'watch' some TV"...TV.

The wait has been excruciating, but well worth it. I feel as if I may ruin my life for the first few months I have this thing.

As for brightness, so long it can output reference whites, thats fine by me...

Are the dimensions known yet (bezel to bezel width, pedestal depth)? Same as last year?

Most likely the same as last year, or very close.

Alas, that Pro 141FD does not appear to have a thinner bezel...it seems it is only thinner in terms of depth, not width.Yep....


ron

Start licking your chops right now.

Photos courtsey of Gizmodo

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2474047568_7f567b795f_o.jpg

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2473230435_8a352dd968_o.jpg

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/05/medium_2474047486_1b59557973_o.jpg

Chris

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/05/Pioneer_2G_Kuro_Plasma_Water.jpg
Display THAT LCD!

i wonder what the contrast ratio will be. its gotta be better than panasonics so called 1,000,000 to 1.The maximum native (on/off) contrast ratio is 100,000:1. Post calibration, with a peak brightness level set @ 40fL, the contrast ratio will be between 40,000:1 and 50,000:1.

There is nothing out there that comes close besides the Kuro projector (JVC clone).

Gallery of Bliss!!!! (http://www.engadgethd.com/photos/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on-1/794044/)

Chris

Any word on Tru2way compatibility?

Gallery of Bliss!!!! (http://www.engadgethd.com/photos/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on-1/794044/)

Chris

Holy cow!

Thanks Chris.

Thanks for putting this thread together!!!

Based on the specs and MSRP ... I am all in on a 6020

Now for a prayer ... Let the free market send us all a very low price from an Authorized Pioneer Dealer ... amen ... p.s. God, no buzzing lemons this year :)

I honestly can't imagine the black levels improving from 9th to 10th gen outside of benchmarks.

I honestly can't imagine the black levels improving from 9th to 10th gen outside of benchmarks.

If you go to some glow. To no glow. That will be an improvement totally noticeable.

At least being in a movie theater situation to see it. :)

Can't wait for the post-release reviews!

Its about time that press release was made official!
Thank god the speculation is over.

Now I have the dilema of deciding if I want to get the 151fd or wait for the 141fd. decisions decisions
Does anyone know what will happen to those guys from tweeter who pre-ordered at the wrong MSRP?? just curious
Will they have to pay extra money or will Tweeter have to eat the money?
I think they should have to eat the money it was thier mistake.

BB should have then by week 3 of June.

Buzzing??? What Buzz :) New power supplies in the 9Gs.

D-nice, will BB Magnolia carry the 111 by week 3 of June as well or do I have to wait till July? If so I hope its reeeeally early July but of course next month would be better:D

By the way if moniters are 2.36" thin how about the 111?

Only have 2 more days with my beautiful 110 before my BB 30 days are up and then its just me and my trusty old 27" sony crt for hopefull only a month in a half or so till these 111's come out.......patience....patience....patience....

D-nice, will BB Magnolia carry the 111 by week 3 of June as well or do I have to wait till July?Doubt that very seriously

By the way if moniters are 2.36" thin how about the 111?3.7 inches

Will the 9g's come with cablecard access?
Thanks in advance.

Phil

Does this mean we have to only post in this thread :D

....
Does anyone know what will happen to those guys from tweeter who pre-ordered at the wrong MSRP?? just curious will they have to pay extra money or will Tweeter have to eat the money? I think they should have to eat the money it was thier mistake.

tweeter should have no problem giving it to them at that price if they wanted too it's only $500 off, the avs forum sponsors should have better pricing then that easily.

Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the network on the elite and the network features on the non elite

Will the 9g's come with cablecard access?
Thanks in advance.

Phil

According to D-Nice they will not have cable card access. So I would take his word for it.

Does this mean we have to only post in this thread :DRoman, I have a shotgun :D

If you go to some glow. To no glow. That will be an improvement totally noticeable.

At least being in a movie theater situation to see it. :)It will have some glow, it will not be ABSOLUTE BLACK, not just yet, 1-2 years from now.

Actually, D-Nice was referring to 2 way cablecard as not being included. I believe that regular cable card is still there.

According to D-Nice they will not have cable card access. So I would take his word for it.

Doubt that very seriously

3.7 inches

Well as long as BB Mag gets them no later than July thats about as long as I can live with out a Kuro.

It makes me feel bad that I have to return the amazing 110 :(.... but in the long run I dont think I will at all :D

cybertec, you seriously need to buy a 9g. This forum will need an "Official Pioneer Kuro Pictures Thread PT. 2" and you're just the man for the job. :)

Is there a chance that the 5020fd will be available anywhere for pre-order this month?

when do the preorders start?

when do the preorders start?

In about 500,000 to 1,000,000 seconds, give or take.

Actually, D-Nice was referring to 2 way cablecard as not being included. I believe that regular cable card is still there.Both have been stripped.

Pre Orders will start this month. Just waiting on setting the price. So hopefully by next week we can start making things happen.

Are the stands on the Pure models still going to have those "chicken legs" when you remove the speaker bar?

Are the stands on the Pure models still going to have those "chicken legs" when you remove the speaker bar?Yep

Yep

:(

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/artman2/uploads/1/kuro-purple-flowers.jpg

:D

yeah thats a bummer, but I'll leave the speaker on even if I dont use it. It looks better than the chicken legs. But hey, who needs to look at chicken legs when you've got the best HDTV picture available to look at

Holy cow!

Thanks Chris.

No problem. Anytime!

What's funny is that this economy supposed to be in a recession, but when it comes to a Kuro we will take out a mortgage just to afford it. LOL!

Chris

It will have some glow, it will not be ABSOLUTE BLACK, not just yet, 1-2 years from now.

You need a little glow so you can notice that you forgot to turn the TV off! :)

When the ECC Kuros come out, there will be an avalanche of complaints from owners who can't determine if it is on or off.

Both have been stripped.

Oh even worse.... that sucks...

What do you think the ballpark "street" price (AVS forum sponsor or Big River) will be for the 6020, say 2 months after launch?

Thank you.

what is the signature series elites that are above. I noticed that too on the press release today also?

jimi

what is the signature series elites that are above. I noticed that too on the press release today also?

jimi

Monitor only, thinner units.

What do you think the ballpark "street" price (AVS forum sponsor or Big River) will be for the 6020, say 2 months after launch?

Thank you.The same as the launch price.

Does anyone know what the extra features are on the signature series?

What do you think the ballpark "street" price (AVS forum sponsor or Big River) will be for the 6020, say 2 months after launch?

Thank you.

More than you can afford, pal.

"Networked Home Media Gallery for playback of digital assets such as HD movie, music and photos from a PC or via USB"
Does this mean that I can connect the TV to my router and play all those media files on the TV?

The same as the launch price.

You mean they will be selling for MSRP? Or the discount level will be the same in 2 months as it when it launches?

Questions I'm hoping get answered next week:

What will be the energy consumption?
Will the home media gallery be any more mac compatible than last year?
How much brighter will these be?
If I ask nicely, will they give me back the cable card slot?

I'm probably the only one on this thread who is so ignorant, but could D-Nice or someone else fill me in on something? What is D-Nice's affiliation with Pioneer? Dealer or what?

Just curious, I'm relatively new to Pioneer threads.

Thanks.

he's just a fan.

He is not a dealer and he is not with Pioneer. He is just a pro

He is extremely well connected.

He's in the mob.:D

He is not a dealer and he is not with Pioneer. He is just a pro
btw, 5010 is gorgeous. i'm astounded. buy from this man!! :)

btw, 5010 is gorgeous. i'm astounded. buy from this man!! :)

Throw up some Planet Earth shots in the official pics thread will ya?http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/drool.gif

i will! the g/f is watching Idol now though. which looks amazing btw.

People - please read the forum rules (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/announcement.php?f=167&a=119):

NO PRICE TALK OTHER THAN MSRP

I know it's really tempting and kind of a natural line of discussion, but it would be really nice if we could have a thread that the moderators don't lock because forum rules are being ignored...

Sorry for yelling.

Thank you sir!

You mean they will be selling for MSRP? Or the discount level will be the same in 2 months as it when it launches?

It will be the same discount as when it launches. I fell into the "let's wait for the price to drop before I buy" mode last year. I waited and waited, expecting a Black Friday price. The prices didn't drop until very late in the calendar year. Then there was all of the talk of the newer models and...well, I still don't own an HD set.

This year, I plan to wait a few months after release to see how the sets perform, but I'm not gonna wait for the prices to drop. I'm getting older every minute. My doctor tells me that every minute I wait to buy, I'm that much closer to death.:eek:

Live now. Buy now. Enjoy now!

PS: If you want to look at pricing history, go to pricescan.com

are these going to be made by pioneer still? or is this the start of the panasonic era of manufacturing kuros?



if I can sell my 56" dlp I'm gonna be all over this bad boy next month(assuming it's out in canada next month)

They are pure Pioneer.

I'm probably the only one on this thread who is so ignorant, but could D-Nice or someone else fill me in on something? What is D-Nice's affiliation with Pioneer? Dealer or what?

Just curious, I'm relatively new to Pioneer threads.

Thanks.

He is our Pioneer Whisperer.:)

BB should have then by week 3 of June.

Buzzing??? What Buzz :) New power supplies in the 9Gs.
For many this could be the most decisive point. I really was smitten with my 8G, however the "buzz" was not tolerable. Someone at Pioneer HQ heard our "buzz".
Nicely done Pioneer!

Paul

2 questions.

1. Will the 6020 still only have High/Med/Low temp settings?

2. Will there be any improvements to modes like smooth? I can see "stuttering" (or whatever you want to call it) on smooth (or even advanced) sometimes while watching blu-ray movies.

Thanks!

This is really going to be a tough decision for me. Save money with the 58" 800U panny or splurge and get the wicked Pioneer 60".

Gallery of Bliss!!!! (http://www.engadgethd.com/photos/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on-1/794044/)

Chris

I don't think those pics do the 9Gs justice. In most of those pics you can't tell a difference between the 8G and 9G (or even some of the other plasmas for that matter.

For many this could be the most decisive point. I really was smitten with my 8G, however the "buzz" was not tolerable. Someone at Pioneer HQ heard our "buzz".
Nicely done Pioneer!

Paul

If they made a power supply change that corrects the buzz for 9G, I wonder if there will be a modified power supply made available for the 8G's to cure the problem...

Questions I'm hoping get answered next week:

What will be the energy consumption?

Me too.

In particular, I'd like to know what the standby power energy consumption is.

Man. I am really impressed with pioneers picture, but I do not know how you guys can justify the premium.

Hi,
Please forgive the noob question. From what I understand, the difference between 141fd and 151fd is that the 141 cannot display over the air tv signals and does not have speakers. The rest of the specs are identical, and it will work with an STB (as long as run through surround sound). Is there something else I might be missing?
thanks in advance,
Danny

This thread has truly piqued my interest! I have a XBR5 and have been following the Kuro line very closely!

Hi,
Please forgive the noob question. From what I understand, the difference between 141fd and 151fd is that the 141 cannot display over the air tv signals and does not have speakers. The rest of the specs are identical, and it will work with an STB (as long as run through surround sound). Is there something else I might be missing?
thanks in advance,
Danny

The PRO-141FD is significantly thinner than the PRO-151FD.

2.3" vs 3.5"

The PRO-141FD is significantly thinner than the PRO-151FD.

Hopefully significantly cheaper as well.

OK, I am in a dilemma.

I sit at 10 feet from my screen. The Pioneer Kuro will be my first HDTV. I want the 60", so which model should I look into it?

Signature?
Elite?
Regular Pio?

I am a newbie on HDTV, but I appreciate hi-quality. I work on motion graphics and commercials for television and film and I really want to see the work I do broadcast or presented on a beautiful set. Money is somewhat an issue. I heard by the time they ship the displays we can expect a 20% markdown on the MSRP. I hope that's true.

Thanks and I love here. So much good info. All the best.

Any word on Tru2way compatibility?

I wonder if this feature will get some love on the 10G models. Panny seems to be fond of it so it may be integrated on the Kuros in the next round.

You need a little glow so you can notice that you forgot to turn the TV off! :)

When the ECC Kuros come out, there will be an avalanche of complaints from owners who can't determine if it is on or off.
There's already an annoying blue LED for that. Hopefully this year you'll have the option to turn it off rather than dimming it, or I'll have to get the Blu-Tack out. It's funny that with them having such emphasis on black that they have a bright blue LED on when the display is powered up.

I don't think those pics do the 9Gs justice. In most of those pics you can't tell a difference between the 8G and 9G (or even some of the other plasmas for that matter.
It looks like there is really only an improvement in on/off contrast ratio, rather than ANSI. With mixed-contrast scenes, there is virtually no change with the 8/9G displays, but with low-contrast images it's more visible:

http://i27.tinypic.com/2prvaxt.jpg

I must say, it is a bit disappointing though, I was hoping for a bigger difference in black levels compared to last year. I was all set to go for the best 60ʺ model, but now I'm not so sure.

I wish Engadget had left the EXIF information embedded in the photos.

There's already an annoying blue LED for that. Hopefully this year you'll have the option to turn it off rather than dimming it, or I'll have to get the Blu-Tack out. It's funny that with them having such emphasis on black that they have a bright blue LED on when the display is powered up.


It looks like there is really only an improvement in on/off contrast ratio, rather than ANSI. With mixed-contrast scenes, there is virtually no change with the 8/9G displays, but with low-contrast images it's more visible

I must say, it is a bit disappointing though, I was hoping for a bigger difference in black levels compared to last year. I was all set to go for the best 60ʺ model, but now I'm not so sure.

Are you coming to that conclusion based on photos from the internet?:confused:

Are you coming to that conclusion based on photos from the internet?:confused:
Of course, it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion. Any of the images where there are a lot of bright objects on-screen, the 8/9G displays look virtually identical in the photographs, with the 9Gs offering only very slight improvements in black level. In the one pictured above which has hardly any bright objects, the blacks are much deeper.

D-Nice has already stated previously that the main difference is on/off contrast improvements rather than ANSI. That's not to say ANSI hasn't improved, but it's not nearly as much as the on/off CR.

The good thing is that with high contrast images, your eye perceives black levels to be deeper than they actually are, so the 9Gs should hopefully give the appearance of black most of the time.

Maybe we should wait until the TV is released before we get disappointed??

can someone explain to me the cable card slot? does that mean no need for a cable box? What about dvr capability? Is it a big plus to have. DO the 5010 and 6010 have it. Will the 9 G's have it?
Do all of the 8G models hum/buzz? I want the 9G 6020 but dont think the wifey is gonna ok that sort of coin and says it will be 2 big. So leaning towards the 5020 but am keeping my options open.

I must say, it is a bit disappointing though, I was hoping for a bigger difference in black levels compared to last year. I was all set to go for the best 60ʺ model, but now I'm not so sure.


Modded pic.


http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9953/2prvaxtst8.jpg

Anybody know if thats the new panasonic to the left or if that is that last years model?

I could not find if this fact was already posted but the 8G was the last Pioneer manufactured line of plasma's. They are now manufactured by another big name and sold by Pioneer. Would explain the lower MSRP's. Read this at CEPro and was told by a Magnolia employee.

Any forum sponsors interested in PMing me a quote on the 5020?

I could not find if this fact was already posted but the 8G was the last Pioneer manufactured line of plasma's. They are now manufactured by another big name and sold by Pioneer. Would explain the lower MSRP's. Read this at CEPro and was told by a Magnolia employee.

This is completely untrue. The 9G is made by Pioneer just as the 8G was. The 10G glass panel will be manufactured in Panasonic's facilities by Pioneer's plasma team, but the displays will be assembled in Pioneer's plants. Your sources are full of it.

This is completely untrue. The 9G is made by Pioneer just as the 8G was. The 10G glass panel will be manufactured in Panasonic's facilities by Pioneer's plasma team, but the displays will be assembled in Pioneer's plants. Your sources are full of it.

definitely sounds like you know more specifics than they did. Disregard my prior post.

What is the Signature Line? Is it suppose to be better than Elite?

2 questions.
2. Will there be any improvements to modes like smooth? I can see "stuttering" (or whatever you want to call it) on smooth (or even advanced) sometimes while watching blu-ray movies.

Thanks!


This is more important and I think many of us would like to know. I guess
we're more interested in the improvements over the 8G as the 8G was awesome
already.

definitely sounds like you know more specifics than they did. Disregard my prior post.

Hey, no biggy. Might not be a bad idea to set the Magnolia employee straight, though, before he kills a bunch of Elite sales with misinformation.

What is the Signature Line? Is it suppose to be better than Elite?

The monitor version I think. Something similar to Panasonics Pro UK line.

Man. I am really impressed with pioneers picture, but I do not know how you guys can justify the premium.

Here's how:

1. Look at picture
2. Justification.

I think folks who are used to Pioneer's premium (not saying that I am) will
have no problems, especially when they consider what they paid for in the
past. Yeah, it's expensive relative to other stuff that's available, but such a
person won't care since it's still not nearly as bad as what they paid 2-5 years
ago. Something like that.

Looks like someone already responded to koberlin1's post, but I just wanted to add that as far as the lower MSRPs go...well, that happens every year when new models come out. Technology gets cheaper all the time (unless it's brand new tech, i.e. OLED or LaserVue). I think ppl would be outraged if the 9g's weren't less expensive than last year's models.

can someone explain to me the cable card slot? does that mean no need for a cable box? What about dvr capability? Is it a big plus to have. DO the 5010 and 6010 have it. Will the 9 G's have it?
Do all of the 8G models hum/buzz? I want the 9G 6020 but dont think the wifey is gonna ok that sort of coin and says it will be 2 big. So leaning towards the 5020 but am keeping my options open.


anyone? anyone.....bueller...bueller

Any forum sponsors interested in PMing me a quote on the 5020?


me too please...

There's already an annoying blue LED for that. Hopefully this year you'll have the option to turn it off rather than dimming it, or I'll have to get the Blu-Tack out. It's funny that with them having such emphasis on black that they have a bright blue LED on when the display is powered up.


It looks like there is really only an improvement in on/off contrast ratio, rather than ANSI. With mixed-contrast scenes, there is virtually no change with the 8/9G displays, but with low-contrast images it's more visible:

http://i27.tinypic.com/2prvaxt.jpg

I must say, it is a bit disappointing though, I was hoping for a bigger difference in black levels compared to last year. I was all set to go for the best 60ʺ model, but now I'm not so sure.

I wish Engadget had left the EXIF information embedded in the photos.

What?!?!

The ansi contrast on the 8G is amazing. I Find it's the on/off that needs
improving more than anything else. Also, you can't really get much blacker
than those pics you displayed. The ansi contrast for dark scenes are the
only things that need improving, but we don't see such shots.

Love the Pro-150FD as it is, even if it's not pefectly black yet. The actual
picture is just stunning. Looking forward to seeing the 151, but I gotta admit
(as I've said before) I might have to wait until the 10g anyhow because the
new house is costing too much.

can someone explain to me the cable card slot? does that mean no need for a cable box? What about dvr capability? Is it a big plus to have. DO the 5010 and 6010 have it. Will the 9 G's have it?
Do all of the 8G models hum/buzz? I want the 9G 6020 but dont think the wifey is gonna ok that sort of coin and says it will be 2 big. So leaning towards the 5020 but am keeping my options open.

A cable card slot allows you to receive the cable signal without a box. They are reputed to create a much better picture because you've eliminated one thing between the signal and the picture. Some think the fact that they have had spotty support from cable companies and technical problems make them not worth it. The 8th generation had them. The 9th will not. Apparently, that was a last minute decision. Many companies have dropped them in the last year or two.

For 8th generation buzz, see that thread. Maybe they all buzz and only some hear it. Maybe most don't buzz.

Good luck with your decision.

can someone explain to me the cable card slot? does that mean no need for a cable box? What about dvr capability? Is it a big plus to have. DO the 5010 and 6010 have it. Will the 9 G's have it?
Do all of the 8G models hum/buzz? I want the 9G 6020 but dont think the wifey is gonna ok that sort of coin and says it will be 2 big. So leaning towards the 5020 but am keeping my options open.


The TV itself will not have a cable card slot, and it will not have a built-in DVR. It will work perfectly fine with an external cable box / DVR, as is available from most cable and satellite service providers.

As far as the 8G "hum", only time will tell, I suppose, but I can't imagine that Pioneer didn't improve on that. Only a relatively small percentage of 8G's had an 'objectionable' buzz, anyway.

Keeping the wife happy is a good thing! Choose your battles wisely.

<DOH! Vashti beat me to it!>

Hey, you could always just get a Tivo!! :)

These new 9Gs are so dark, it makes me want to enjoy a Guinness. Salud. http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/images/smilies/guiness.gif

Any forum sponsors interested in selling to a Canadian? PM me with pricing Please.

me too please...
Likewise on the PM front, would like to get an eyeball figure on what these (5020) will street for.

A cable card slot allows you to receive the cable signal without a box. They are reputed to create a much better picture because you've eliminated one thing between the signal and the picture. Some think the fact that they have had spotty support from cable companies and technical problems make them not worth it. The 8th generation had them. The 9th will not. Apparently, that was a last minute decision. Many companies have dropped them in the last year or two.

For 8th generation buzz, see that thread. Maybe they all buzz and only some hear it. Maybe most don't buzz.

Good luck with your decision.


Vashti, slbosse,
with an integrated cable card would that mean it would have dvr capability as well?

So I guess the choice for me would be 5020 (aint ruling the 6020 out yet) or get a good deal on a 6010. If I got the 6010 from invision and it buzzed , would it be a problem in returning it? hmmmm. So, so many questions...

Are the bezel widths on the 9G Kuro and Elites the same as last years models or narrower?

Any forum sponsors interested in selling to a Canadian? PM me with pricing Please.
I would be very careful about ordering from the states Sled. My brother and I order a Onkyo 805 AVR a month ago, and just last night the amp circuit protection kicked in (which automatically shuts off the amp every time you turn it on). Now we have to pay to get it fixed since we're no longer in the country of pruchase, even though we bought it from an authorized dealer.

Do some research on Pio's warranty before you commit.

-Coggs

3.7inch and 2.3inch!? :eek: That sure took me by surprise!!

Two questions:

(1) Do the plasmas still have fans?
(2) Can we directly mount them to the wall back to back. Or does there need to be some space between the back of the plasma and the wall (for breathing)?

Thanks!

Would really like to find out the height and width dimensions with the side speakers attached for the 60" Elite. Building a new house to be completed in August and they are getting ready to start building the furniture that will house the family room TV where I will be putting this.

Also, am I to understand Pioneer does not allow the Elite line to be sold online? If so does that preclude any forum sponsors from selling the Elites? Do these need to be purchased locally?

Thanks for any info !!

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/05/Pioneer_2G_Kuro_Plasma_Water.jpg
Display THAT LCD!

Er... that looks just fine on my PC's LCD screen. :)

What's the point of these pictures? They don't even show the differences between the 8G and the 9G too well (the 8G's picture looks different in my home and the two screens' black levels seem damn near identical in these pictures). And the single shots like the one above are useless, as their black levels and brightness depends on the camera and its settings as well as the display used to view them in the end.

Er... that looks just fine on my PC's LCD screen. :)

What's the point of these pictures? They don't even show the differences between the 8G and the 9G too well (the 8G's picture looks different in my home and the two screens' black levels seem damn near identical in these pictures). And the single shots like the one above are useless, as their black levels and brightness depends on the camera and its settings as well as the display used to view them in the end.
The point in the shots with the 6 displays is to show relative black levels, not absolute. Anything else is utterly pointless though, as are the properly exposed photos. (where most screens look black)

Hello all!!

This is my first post and I stumbled onto this forum tonight when I entered a search for PRO-111FD. I have been waiting for the 9G release to make the jump to a Pioneer Elite Plasma and I just got a flyer in the mail from Showcase Entertainment here in Phoenix stating they were taking pre-orders on 151's and 111's. I am still debating between the 50 and the 60 but in reading this post I noticed the comment about "Chicken Legs" (????) when you remove the speakers. I do not like the wide look with the speakers on so are you saying they don't come off and leave a clean bezel behind?? Does anyone have pics??

Thanks,

Bryan

Hello all!!

This is my first post and I stumbled onto this forum tonight when I entered a search for PRO-111FD. I have been waiting for the 9G release to make the jump to a Pioneer Elite Plasma and I just got a flyer in the mail from Showcase Entertainment here in Phoenix stating they were taking pre-orders on 151's and 111's. I am still debating between the 50 and the 60 but in reading this post I noticed the comment about "Chicken Legs" (????) when you remove the speakers. I do not like the wide look with the speakers on so are you saying they don't come off and leave a clean bezel behind?? Does anyone have pics??

Thanks,

Bryan

The 'chicken legs' thing only applies to the Non-elites, where the speakers are on the bottom. Removing the speakers on the elite won't change the look of the bottom bezel. So you are fine.

If you get a non-elite, there is no point in removing the speaker unless you wish to wall mount. Removing it exposes all the wiring where there is a gap between the stand and the bezel. Besides, I believe the bottom speaker looks quite attractive, so even if you don't use it, you can just leave it there.

I agree that you may as well remove them on the elites (if you have an external sound system) whether you mount it or not.

Er... that looks just fine on my PC's LCD screen. :)

What's the point of these pictures?
I believe it was intended as sarcasm!

I've seen that Samsung next to a Kuro on five different occasions and the friggin LCD has never looked as depicted in those photo's - NEVER! The Samsung in fact was superior vs. the demo running the same Kuro Demo Feed while Kuro was DIM --- So much for OBJECTIVITY.

Best blacks are important but it's not the whole ball of wax - absolute black crush is not a good thing either - please do demo shadow detail samples rather than simply DEEP BLACK CRUSH. How about posting pic's of Shadow Details? I'm not a fan of Panny PDP but when I look at those pic's there are some where the Panny shadow details look better than the Kuro. I've yet to witness a single flat panel match the shadow details of an SXRD with it's IRIS which has now become a piece of AV history.

Hopefully this five times better can deliver in this arena rather than just deep black that has no definition to it - it's the details that = the WoW IMO!:D

Sidenote to D-Nice:

Since you have become the Guru here and possess advance knowledge please answer this.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.:)

There's already an annoying blue LED for that. Hopefully this year you'll have the option to turn it off rather than dimming it, or I'll have to get the Blu-Tack out. It's funny that with them having such emphasis on black that they have a bright blue LED on when the display is powered up.


It looks like there is really only an improvement in on/off contrast ratio, rather than ANSI. With mixed-contrast scenes, there is virtually no change with the 8/9G displays, but with low-contrast images it's more visible:

http://i27.tinypic.com/2prvaxt.jpg

I must say, it is a bit disappointing though, I was hoping for a bigger difference in black levels compared to last year. I was all set to go for the best 60ʺ model, but now I'm not so sure.

I wish Engadget had left the EXIF information embedded in the photos.I'm not exactly sure how these pictures look on your screen but on mine, the 9G vs 8G is just as dramatic as the 8G vs the Panny at the bottom left.

ANSI on the 8Gs were in the 3K range. ANSI on the 9Gs are in the 8K range. Now will you be able to really see these numbers in bright intrascene scenarios? Probably, probably not. However, the differences in the numbers are significant.

D-Nice has already stated previously that the main difference is on/off contrast improvements rather than ANSI.Not exactly. I said the ANSI will not be as dramatic (5x) compared to the on/off. Around 2.5x better ANSI is impressive.

What is the Signature Line? Is it suppose to be better than Elite?Think of the Elite Signature series as a Sony Qualia. Think of the regular Elites as the Sony ES series.

Two big surprises: No cablecard....and HMG migrates down to the non-Elite series.

I may be one of a few, but I've previously chosen the Elite's for their home networking capability for the video playback ability over the network. Now for me I don't (yet) see a diffrentiator between the two set types (except for calibration....which I've honestly never gotten around to hiring someone for).

The cablecard thing is shocking. :confused::mad: I've got cablecards in both my 7g&8g units & although I would welcome tru2way cable for the rare time I might want to use VOD, I can't imagine having to go with a STB. Notwithstanding cable's lukewarm support of cablecard, it is clear 'to me' that the pq is much improved with cc allowing the TV to do whatever decompression needs to be done to display a signal...rather than have the STB perform the function. And that doesn't even address the footprint issue....why have a 3.7" depth tv, if I have to put a 10" STB underneath it??????

This may sound rash, but net/net, I think I'll be bi-passing the 9Gs this year. That's a shame too...I was looking forward to enjoying the 'ultimate' version of Pio's TV's prior to the move to Panny's glass and the uncertainty involved.

....just one guy's thoughts......

ditto on the pming me with street prices.. I want to get one no later than by the end of july.. interesting to find out what street prices will be to see if i go with a 5020 or a 5010

He is our Pioneer Whisperer.:)

Love this!

What about QAM tuning?

What about QAM tuning?QAM is manditory, so it's in there.

I believe it was intended as sarcasm!

I've seen that Samsung next to a Kuro on five different occasions and the friggin LCD has never looked as depicted in those photo's - NEVER! The Samsung in fact was superior vs. the demo running the same Kuro Demo Feed while Kuro was DIM --- So much for OBJECTIVITY.

Best blacks are important but it's not the whole ball of wax - absolute black crush is not a good thing either - please do demo shadow detail samples rather than simply DEEP BLACK CRUSH. How about posting pic's of Shadow Details? I'm not a fan of Panny PDP but when I look at those pic's there are some where the Panny shadow details look better than the Kuro. I've yet to witness a single flat panel match the shadow details of an SXRD with it's IRIS which has now become a piece of AV history.

Hopefully this five times better can deliver in this arena rather than just deep black that has no definition to it - it's the details that = the WoW IMO!:D

Sidenote to D-Nice:

Since you have become the Guru here and possess advance knowledge please answer this.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.:)

I know what you mean. But I think I can explain the phenomenon of darker blacks when they are part of a picture and lighter Greyish blacks on the black bars or when the screen is not showing an image. I see the same thing on my Panny Plasma. What I realized is that it was just my perception.

When you stare at a black screen in a darkened room, or you are staring directly at the blacks bars above and below an image in a completely darkened room..........Your eyes are comparing the black your panel can produce to pure black (the blackness of the room and the bezel). Therefor the blacks your panel can produce are exposed for what they are...not black at all but an approximation therein. Usually a dark glowing grey is a better description.

However when you stare at blacks in an image they are next to lighter colors...namely white. This creates an illusion to the human eye due to the relative darkness that your TV can create next to the whiteness it can create.

So all that is important is the illusion to the viewer in theri living room. If you see black when you watch your LCD...great....thats all that matters. But if you ever want to see what your TV really produces, just turn the lights off and stare at a "black" screen.

A Tv that can produce deeper and darker blacks will have a much richer picture with considerably more depth. Black level is considered the most important aspect to PQ. So while I encourage you to enjoy your LCD, I would also encourage you to not delude yourself into thinking that a properly set up Kuro in a darkened envirnment won't look noticeably better than your TV.............and my TV as well!:)

I believe it was intended as sarcasm!

I've seen that Samsung next to a Kuro on five different occasions and the friggin LCD has never looked as depicted in those photo's - NEVER! The Samsung in fact was superior vs. the demo running the same Kuro Demo Feed while Kuro was DIM --- So much for OBJECTIVITY.

Best blacks are important but it's not the whole ball of wax - absolute black crush is not a good thing either - please do demo shadow detail samples rather than simply DEEP BLACK CRUSH. How about posting pic's of Shadow Details? I'm not a fan of Panny PDP but when I look at those pic's there are some where the Panny shadow details look better than the Kuro. I've yet to witness a single flat panel match the shadow details of an SXRD with it's IRIS which has now become a piece of AV history.

Hopefully this five times better can deliver in this arena rather than just deep black that has no definition to it - it's the details that = the WoW IMO!:D

Sidenote to D-Nice:

Since you have become the Guru here and possess advance knowledge please answer this.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.:)

Wow the resident LCD fanboi bashing a plasma, color me suprised.

So can anyone confirm if I can have an Elite 111 in my house by mid or late July???

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.During what time of day? Lighting conditions?

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..The haze and poor blacks are viewable during all content per my eyes. You don't see it....good for you.

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.:)Once you respond to your first question, I can answer this comment.

Looks promising, but I will wait for independent reports that are not from a Pioneer booth setup. :)

This is really going to be a tough decision for me. Save money with the 58" 800U panny or splurge and get the wicked Pioneer 60".

I am in this exact same boat. But I think I may wait until the 60" Pioneer 9Gs come out as well as the new Panny 58" before making a decision. I'd like to read a few reviews of both before buying. This is going to be a tv I have to keep for loooooong time and I want to get it right. I earn a modest income and can't blow too much every 4 or 5 years on a tv. I would like to know whatever I buy will be working for about 10 years for me.

I'm not exactly sure how these pictures look on your screen but on mine, the 9G vs 8G is just as dramatic as the 8G vs the Panny at the bottom left.

ANSI on the 8Gs were in the 3K range. ANSI on the 9Gs are in the 8K range. Now will you be able to really see these numbers in bright intrascene scenarios? Probably, probably not. However, the differences in the numbers are significant.
I've just re-profiled my monitor and you're right, it is more dramatic than I had initially seen. I didn't realise it had been a while since I last calibrated this, and it had drifted quite a bit.

With mixed contrast images, there still doesn't appear to be a massive improvement: http://www.engadget.com/photos/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on/793959/ but it was mostly dark low-contrast images that the 8G struggled with anyway.

As I now need a new display, I think I will end up getting one of these, despite the other plasma issues. I would prefer to keep waiting for the 10/11G Pioneers when they finally get ‘true’ blacks, but it's not an option any more.

I presume that, just like last year, the 60ʺ model will have worse black levels than the 50ʺ sets. Do you happen to know how they'll compare? I'm tempted to go for the 60ʺ but not if there's a big difference. (you know how picky I am when it comes to things like this)

Looks promising, but I will wait for independent reports that are not from a Pioneer booth setup. :)
Regardless of how it compares to the other displays, their comparison to the 8G will be a ‘proper’ one, so that should at least give some of us an idea of how much darker the blacks are.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..
If you are viewing in a bright room with the lights on, then you can get the appearance of black out of an LCD, especially with medium to high-contrast images.

In a dark home-theatre environment with a properly calibrated display, an LCD will only appear to produce black with bright high-contrast images. With anything else, the black levels start to fall apart.

The 8G Kuros fared reasonably well with high and medium-contrast images in a dark environment, but they still looked grey with dark images.

Hopefully the 9G Kuros will look black in all but the darkest images. At the very least, they should hopefully be able to produce black levels at least on-par with, if not better than most CRTs when calibrated for shadow detail. The majority of CRTs out there can only show great blacks when sacrificing shadow detail, the Kuros show great shadow detail even at their darkest setting. The Trinitron I'm using temporarily right now has rather poor black levels when set so that it doesn't crush shadow details – even an 8G would probably be better than it, and certainly the 9G will.

These so-called ‘void’ blacks that you speak of appear in many types of programme content – horror films for example.

Two big surprises: No cablecard....and HMG migrates down to the non-Elite series.

I may be one of a few, but I've previously chosen the Elite's for their home networking capability for the video playback ability over the network. Now for me I don't (yet) see a diffrentiator between the two set types (except for calibration....which I've honestly never gotten around to hiring someone for).

The cablecard thing is shocking. :confused::mad: I've got cablecards in both my 7g&8g units & although I would welcome tru2way cable for the rare time I might want to use VOD, I can't imagine having to go with a STB. Notwithstanding cable's lukewarm support of cablecard, it is clear 'to me' that the pq is much improved with cc allowing the TV to do whatever decompression needs to be done to display a signal...rather than have the STB perform the function. And that doesn't even address the footprint issue....why have a 3.7" depth tv, if I have to put a 10" STB underneath it??????

This may sound rash, but net/net, I think I'll be bi-passing the 9Gs this year. That's a shame too...I was looking forward to enjoying the 'ultimate' version of Pio's TV's prior to the move to Panny's glass and the uncertainty involved.

....just one guy's thoughts......


Yes Im surprised about the no cablecard too. This is not a deal breaker but Im still glad I have my 5010. I have used cablecards on my past 3 TVs. Sony 36XS955, 34XBR960 and the 5010. They work very well and are a lot more convenient then the cable box. No cablecard will probably cut production cost down too so they can sell it for less.

Also things are uncertain with the cable companies and cablecards. Im waiting for Verizon Fios which will support cablecards.

BB should have then by week 3 of June.

Buzzing??? What Buzz :) New power supplies in the 9Gs.

Do you really believe that the power supply was the source of the directional buzz from the front panel?

More than one person has had power supplies replaced with no improvement in the buzz for 8Gs.

I was told that a change in the firing sequence could be a solution for the buzz but at the possible expense of degradation in the picture.

But I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that the firing sequence was NOT changed in the 9Gs.

Do you really believe that the power supply was the source of the directional buzz from the front panel?

More than one person has had power supplies replaced with no improvement in the buzz for 8Gs.

I was told that a change in the firing sequence could be a solution for the buzz but at the possible expense of degradation in the picture.

But I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that the firing sequence was NOT changed in the 9Gs.

Could fix it it they are using a completely new redesigned power supply.

Are the bezel widths on the 9G Kuro and Elites the same as last years models or narrower?

are they matte finish now? (I hope)


bob

I believe it was intended as sarcasm!

I've seen that Samsung next to a Kuro on five different occasions and the friggin LCD has never looked as depicted in those photo's - NEVER! The Samsung in fact was superior vs. the demo running the same Kuro Demo Feed while Kuro was DIM --- So much for OBJECTIVITY.

Best blacks are important but it's not the whole ball of wax - absolute black crush is not a good thing either - please do demo shadow detail samples rather than simply DEEP BLACK CRUSH. How about posting pic's of Shadow Details? I'm not a fan of Panny PDP but when I look at those pic's there are some where the Panny shadow details look better than the Kuro. I've yet to witness a single flat panel match the shadow details of an SXRD with it's IRIS which has now become a piece of AV history.

Hopefully this five times better can deliver in this arena rather than just deep black that has no definition to it - it's the details that = the WoW IMO!:D

Sidenote to D-Nice:

Since you have become the Guru here and possess advance knowledge please answer this.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.:)


Westa,

A lot of those displays actually deliver darker blacks than what is actually pictured. I take some of these photos with a grain of salt.

I must also say that there's just as much bias in the LCD forums and unfortunately many people who visit AVS are biased and their viewpoints focus on their own viewing habits. I mean no harm in this statement, but you can be very biased as well. You've made your feelings well known about the Panasonic PDPs regarding their white levels and screen glare and when you've shared your feelings you're straight forward and blunt.

The Pioneer Kuro's black levels aren't extraordinary in a room with lighting. From the comments I recall you posting most of your viewings have been in environments where there is ambient light. LCDs hold their own in black levels when there is a decent amount of light in the room. However, as environment lighting decreases so does black levels on LCDs. Kuro's show their strengths in dimmer lighting conditions. Other that Samsungs 71/650LCDs, EVERY LCD I've seen has a blueish tint to the black levels. I can see inadequate black levels on the Sony XBRs in Sony's own Sony store in the showroom. My Kuro's black levels look almost pure black in that type of environment. Yeah, you may not want to see yourself shaving in plasma during the daytime;), however many of us DETEST blueish black levels and we see it LONG before the credits roll on the screen.

As far as the black crush comment goes I do agree with you. There is some black crush going on with the Kuro. If I can see the details on my SXRD and it's not there on the Kuro, then yes there is some black crush. The SXRD still rules in that area (but that's the only area it does).

And I also agree with you about the dimness of the Kuros. Although they are much better in home than in the stores. One thing for you to realize is that many here in the plasma forums tone down the picture to the extent that they are setup much more toned down that what you even see setup in the stores. So to them there's no brightness issue. I don't agree, but as the saying goes "beauty is in the eye of the beholder":).

This is more important and I think many of us would like to know. I guess
we're more interested in the improvements over the 8G as the 8G was awesome
already.

I hope this question doesn't get overlooked. The stuttering does take from the experience.

It looks like I've found a replacement for my old 47" Panasonic RPTV. Were there many problems with the initial models last year (vs. later production)? I don't recall seeing threads about it but I wanted to be sure. I'm anxious to get my hands on one of these, already got a new receiver (Onkyo) and speaker system (SVS).

I've just re-profiled my monitor and you're right, it is more dramatic than I had initially seen. I didn't realise it had been a while since I last calibrated this, and it had drifted quite a bit. :)

With mixed contrast images, there still doesn't appear to be a massive improvement: http://www.engadget.com/photos/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on/793959/ but it was mostly dark low-contrast images that the 8G struggled with anyway.I agree. Low APL scenes are going to benefit most from the lower minimum luminance levels

I presume that, just like last year, the 60ʺ model will have worse black levels than the 50ʺ sets. Do you happen to know how they'll compare? I'm tempted to go for the 60ʺ but not if there's a big difference. (you know how picky I am when it comes to things like this)Per the numbers, the 50" will be slightly better. You won't be able to see the difference....even side-by-side :)

I'm not exactly sure how these pictures look on your screen but on mine, the 9G vs 8G is just as dramatic as the 8G vs the Panny at the bottom left...

Some of the earlier pics looked much more dramatic than some of these. Some of these seem to be the big difference as expected. However, Robert and others have stated that there is as big of a difference in the 9G over the 8G than there was with the 8G over the 7G. I think I'll take their word over the pics for now:).

Do you really believe that the power supply was the source of the directional buzz from the front panel?No. There were two reported types of buzz. One from the power supply and the other from the glass itself.

I was told that a change in the firing sequence could be a solution for the buzz but at the possible expense of degradation in the picture.

But I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that the firing sequence was NOT changed in the 9Gs.The firing sequence has not be changed in a way to resolve the panel buzz.

Noob question.Are there any sponsors on this site that are located in N.Y.? Iwas just about to pull the trigger on the 150 next month but now I might as well get the 151.Thanks in advance.

Do the 9Gs have the bezel design as the 8G? I see that the depth has changed but what about the width of the top and side bezel?

Noob question.Are there any sponsors on this site that are located in N.Y.? Iwas just about to pull the trigger on the 150 next month but now I might as well get the 151.Thanks in advance.


I think Robert at V.E. can help you.

Westa....you keep repeating the misinformation about black crush and lack of shadow detail with Kuro's makes you seem very uneducated.
Please tell me one attribute about a Samsung that makes it better than a Kuro, even playing a Kuro demo besides uneeded brightness?

I owned a 60A3000 SXRD and it was not better than the Kuro in any aspect. Including shadow detail.

Noob question.Are there any sponsors on this site that are located in N.Y.? Iwas just about to pull the trigger on the 150 next month but now I might as well get the 151.Thanks in advance.Robert at Value Electronics would be my number one choice.

His site is confusing since there is no search feature and the page only shows LCD's.

just call, easier that way.

Thankyou i'll look into it.

Another vote for Robert for a NY sponsor. They're fabulous to deal with.

Regardless of how it compares to the other displays, their comparison to the 8G will be a ‘proper’ one, so that should at least give some of us an idea of how much darker the blacks are.

Only those of us with properly calibrated screens, it seems. This just underlines what I was saying - these kinds of pictures (in "normal" settings) aren't nearly as informative and reliable as a direct, personal comparison of the screens would be.

Click (http://www.recordere.dk/indhold/templates/design.aspx?articleid=1669&zoneid=5)to see a link that divulges the Swedish prices of the 9G's............I can afford one.....Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!:D

But also there is a side by side comparison between a Panny pz700, 8G Pio,
9G Pio, Samsung LCD, and a Sony LCD.

The only issue I have is that I have a Panny 700u, and these pics show black levels that I can assure you that the set CANNOT reproduce. That throws into question the accuracy of the picture.....but then again its pictures on the internet.

Click (http://www.recordere.dk/indhold/templates/design.aspx?articleid=1669&zoneid=5)to see a link that divulges the Swedish prices of the 9G's............I can afford one.....Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!:D


Danish :)

Danish :)

Won't it be close though? I mean the price is in kr. If not what would the difference be?

Won't it be close though? I mean the price is in kr. If not what would the difference be?

The prices I gave you before + 2000 sek (of course in Denmark)

The prices I gave you before + 2000 sek

Ok, well I can still afford it. So that is great! What does that mean that the 5090H models will have Satellite tuners in them? Is their free TV over satellite in Sweden?

Ok, well I can still afford it. So that is great! What does that mean that the 5090H models will have Satellite tuners in them? Is their free TV over satellite in Sweden?

Nope you have to pay. (more q just send a PM)

Noob question - does it matter if one orders an Elite locally or not? From what I've seen, it doesn't appear they can be ordered online so I wasn't sure about over the phone across state lines (could be some Pioneer Law for all I know, they seem to be particular with who sells where).

The SN#'s are tracked so as long as you buy from auth dealer/distributor (or your dealers buys from auth distributor) as stated in Pioneers warranty you will have a warranty for 2 years in home for Elite models. You just have to research your dealers reviews.

Some of the earlier pics looked much more dramatic than some of these. Some of these seem to be the big difference as expected. However, Robert and others have stated that there is as big of a difference in the 9G over the 8G than there was with the 8G over the 7G. I think I'll take their word over the pics for now:).

I totally agree with your larger post above xb re lcds - good explanation. Another thing that gets overlooked is that better black levels result in better color saturation in ALL scenes. That, to me, is the primary advantage of the Kuros balck level emphasis. The first time I saw a 4280 next to a Panny 700, the scenes being displayed were bright (it was the animated musical machine scene in a BB demo loop) but the color levels on the Kuro were richer (even after setting both up properly).

To be fair to Robert, he didn't say the difference between 8G and 9G was the same as 7G to 8G. Rather, he said it was noticeable but not as significant as the prior jump.

The SN#'s are tracked so as long as you buy from auth dealer/distributor (or your dealers buys from auth distributor) as stated in Pioneers warranty you will have a warranty for 2 years in home for Elite models. You just have to research your dealers reviews.

Thanks for the info! I've read good things about BuyBestPlasma, ****************, and Invision, so I guess it'll come down to pricing and availability.

Do most people here buy the extended warranty from the dealer too or separately (if so, where)? Is it much of a hassle to buy it separately?

I would do the research about warranties there is allot of info here on the forum, dont want to go off topic in this thread.

The 'chicken legs' thing only applies to the Non-elites, where the speakers are on the bottom. Removing the speakers on the elite won't change the look of the bottom bezel. So you are fine.

If you get a non-elite, there is no point in removing the speaker unless you wish to wall mount. Removing it exposes all the wiring where there is a gap between the stand and the bezel. Besides, I believe the bottom speaker looks quite attractive, so even if you don't use it, you can just leave it there.

I agree that you may as well remove them on the elites (if you have an external sound system) whether you mount it or not.

I plan to get the 6010 or the 6020. I will be wall mounting the tv. I will be removing the speaker because I will be running the sound through a 5.1 system. What do you mean when you say the wiring will be exposed? What does "chicken legs" mean?

I owned a 60A3000 SXRD and it was not better than the Kuro in any aspect. Including shadow detail.

I owned a 70" SXRD. It did have a nice picture, but paled in comparison to the detail my 150FD has.

I plan to get the 6010 or the 6020. I will be wall mounting the tv. I will be removing the speaker because I will be running the sound through a 5.1 system. What do you mean when you say the wiring will be exposed? What does "chicken legs" mean?

When you remove the speaker on the bottom of the panel, it exposes the skinny legs where the stand is connected to the TV. You can see underneath the TV and you'll be able to see your wiring. If you're wall mounting the TV, then it doesn't matter.

I will be in the market for:

Pro 151FD & a PDP 5020FD

Please PM me as I would like to talk turkey.

Thank you in advance!:)

I plan to get the 6010 or the 6020. I will be wall mounting the tv. I will be removing the speaker because I will be running the sound through a 5.1 system. What do you mean when you say the wiring will be exposed? What does "chicken legs" mean?

Looks like this:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0790.jpg
If you leave the speaker bar on the bottom connected, you won't see the "Chicken Legs" or the wiring.

Now that the 9Gs are about hit the streets, I'll be looking for a place to purchase one. Problem is, I'm in Sacramento, CA. Which sponsors will sell to me that will allow me to keep the Pio warrantee, along with a good return policy and a great price? Just seem like all the great retailers are down South or back East.

As long as you buy from an authorized dealer/distributor, you'll get the warranty.

Now that the 9Gs are about hit the streets, I'll be looking for a place to purchase one. Problem is, I'm in Sacramento, CA. Which sponsors will sell to me that will allow me to keep the Pio warrantee, along with a good return policy and a great price? Just seem like all the great retailers are down South or back East.

Just pull up the authorized list on Pioneers Website and take take your pick. All are great companies who will give you great pricing.

yeah. but i don't think i want the speaker there unused. and i've only got two wires - power and one HDMI. i'm going to try to run them down one leg so you won't see them.

If any sponsors have pricing on 6020 or PRO-151FD please PM me. Thanks!

No offense guys lets not clog up the thread with the PM stuff. Once the pricing is available someone will post here :)

If any sponsors have pricing on 6020 or PRO-151FD please PM me. Thanks!
Me Too!

No offense guys lets not clog up the thread with the PM stuff. Once the pricing is available someone will post here :)

I agree with that. When pricing hits you all will know about it.:cool:

The 'chicken legs' thing only applies to the Non-elites, where the speakers are on the bottom. Removing the speakers on the elite won't change the look of the bottom bezel. So you are fine.

If you get a non-elite, there is no point in removing the speaker unless you wish to wall mount. Removing it exposes all the wiring where there is a gap between the stand and the bezel. Besides, I believe the bottom speaker looks quite attractive, so even if you don't use it, you can just leave it there.

I agree that you may as well remove them on the elites (if you have an external sound system) whether you mount it or not.

Thanks for the response!! I guess I didn't pay attention and that makes perfect sense. It won't affect me because I am going ELITE all the way. I have been waiting for 6 years for the technology to come to this level (still running an HD Mitsubishi CRT Rear Proj) and now I am going for the BEST!!

I totally agree with your larger post above xb re lcds - good explanation. Another thing that gets overlooked is that better black levels result in better color saturation in ALL scenes. That, to me, is the primary advantage of the Kuros balck level emphasis. The first time I saw a 4280 next to a Panny 700, the scenes being displayed were bright (it was the animated musical machine scene in a BB demo loop) but the color levels on the Kuro were richer (even after setting both up properly).

To be fair to Robert, he didn't say the difference between 8G and 9G was the same as 7G to 8G. Rather, he said it was noticeable but not as significant as the prior jump.


That scene you are talking about is the first thing I saw playing on a Kuro and it did stand out:).

I thought Robert had said that but maybe I'm mistaken. I have seen that mentioned a few other times on different sites. Guess we'll hear about it soon enough hopefully.

In the opinion of those who've been able to view the 8g and 9g in person, do you think the 9g is worth spending $1500 to $2000 more?

In the opinion of those who've been able to view the 8g and 9g in person, do you think the 9g is worth spending $1500 to $2000 more?

Depends if 80% better blacks are worth it to you. Most will say it's worth waiting, but only you can decide.

In the opinion of those who've been able to view the 8g and 9g in person, do you think the 9g is worth spending $1500 to $2000 more?

There is not going to be that much of a price difference. Just wait until the 9G's come out them compare prices with a forum sponsor. Then make your decision.

In the opinion of those who've been able to view the 8g and 9g in person, do you think the 9g is worth spending $1500 to $2000 more?

To be honest, the 8G blacks are already fine for me (I haven't seen the 9G yet)
but I am actually more interested in the other improvements over the 8G. I
already own(ed) a Pro-150FD, the best plasma currently available by Pioneer,
so I know already how great the 8G's are. The colours are already amazingly
rich and accurate, but there's always room for improvement elsewhere. I am
seriously concerned about the motion options as that's where the TV could
use improvement. It seemed at least 2 of the modes (smooth/advanced) seemed
to have flaws (often I turned it 'off' instead). Also, the performance is okay
in a bright room, but it's definitely a little lacking under certain circumstances.
Better filtering and such could make things better (honestly, making the
screen brighter won't make as much a difference, IMHO). Also, many of us
are concerned about the buzzing of the 8G's which, hopefully, has been
reduced or even eliminated.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a bit disappointed that the bezel has hardly
changed (even though I love the 8G bezel) and the non-elite stands are,
well, crap in my opinion. They should have at least given them something
similar to the elite stands which are much better. Either that or allow some
sort of retractable solution, like shorter legs or something (to reduce height).

We need more info, for sure, but I can tell you as a (soon to be former) 8g
owner, I'd find it a bit difficult to be jealous of the folks who are buying a
9G. The 8G's are plenty fine and, outside of the better blacks, I'm just not
getting the 'vastly improved' feeling I got last year when I picked up the 8G.
I looked at the press release and the features, and they're very similar to
the exact features I have on my (soon to be sold with condo) Pro-150FD.

Westa,

A lot of those displays actually deliver darker blacks than what is actually pictured. I take some of these photos with a grain of salt.

I must also say that there's just as much bias in the LCD forums and unfortunately many people who visit AVS are biased and their viewpoints focus on their own viewing habits. I mean no harm in this statement, but you can be very biased as well. You've made your feelings well known about the Panasonic PDPs regarding their white levels and screen glare and when you've shared your feelings you're straight forward and blunt.

The Pioneer Kuro's black levels aren't extraordinary in a room with lighting. From the comments I recall you posting most of your viewings have been in environments where there is ambient light. LCDs hold their own in black levels when there is a decent amount of light in the room. However, as environment lighting decreases so does black levels on LCDs. Kuro's show their strengths in dimmer lighting conditions. Other that Samsungs 71/650LCDs, EVERY LCD I've seen has a blueish tint to the black levels. I can see inadequate black levels on the Sony XBRs in Sony's own Sony store in the showroom. My Kuro's black levels look almost pure black in that type of environment. Yeah, you may not want to see yourself shaving in plasma during the daytime;), however many of us DETEST blueish black levels and we see it LONG before the credits roll on the screen.

As far as the black crush comment goes I do agree with you. There is some black crush going on with the Kuro. If I can see the details on my SXRD and it's not there on the Kuro, then yes there is some black crush. The SXRD still rules in that area (but that's the only area it does).

And I also agree with you about the dimness of the Kuros. Although they are much better in home than in the stores. One thing for you to realize is that many here in the plasma forums tone down the picture to the extent that they are setup much more toned down that what you even see setup in the stores. So to them there's no brightness issue. I don't agree, but as the saying goes "beauty is in the eye of the beholder":).


UM, I'm sorry but a calibrated Kuro elite has ZERO BLACK CRUSH! Anyone who says they see black crush on a kuro, is looking at one that is not calibrated right. I owned a XBR1 SXRD, and yes it had great shadow detail but not as good as my elite. 9Gs look great, but I'm holding out for ECC is 2009. D-nice is that still gonna happen? or do we have to wait until 2010 for the ECC?

UM, I'm sorry but a calibrated Kuro elite has ZERO BLACK CRUSH! Anyone who says they see black crush on a kuro, is looking at one that is not calibrated right. I owned a XBR1 SXRD, and yes it had great shadow detail but not as good as my elite. 9Gs look great, but I'm holding out for ECC is 2009. D-nice is that still gonna happen? or do we have to wait until 2010 for the ECC?

I love this time of year, all the pros come out ;)

Changes (new technologies) could reveal new problems. At least we know what the 8g is and its problems. They seem to be isolated to a few and some people say it's not that bad.

I have a Hitachi 60VS810 with a failing light engine after 3 years and there are others out there with the same issue. I was an early adopter to that set and it was a "beaut" when it worked. I guess this is one of times I should of bought the extended warranty. So now I've got a $4,000 eco friendly tv with $1800.00 in repairs needed.

I love this time of year, all the pros come out ;)

We come out like worms after the rain, or cockroaches out of the woodwork.
This year will be tough, especially when I start selling the 9g's, but Next year I wont be able to shake UPGRADEITUS!

Okay, let's just cut to the chase. I have a few questions and dont have time to go through a zillion pages of posts...

1. If I can afford the 9G Elite 60inch is it worth the extra grand? (although I think it's more than that because elite dealers typically do not deal and I have yet to find a mail order company who will ship an elite to me because they are scared of pi$$ing off Pioneer.

2. Is the 60inch Elite going to have the same dimensions as the non-elite? I have a real issue with width in my current cabinet.

Thank you. ;)

I loved my 5070 for almost 2 years,
swore up and down for over a year it was "good enough" for me
...but couldn't resist the draw of the new Kuro's :cool:

I got one of the last 5080's available in Canada last month at a price I couldnt resist
(less than half of what I paid for the 5070)

This time I'm not jumping until something bigger comes along than 60"

Great picture and deeper blacks are not going to be enough anymore
to get me to open my wallet again soon. I want 75"+ and would love another Pio plasma,
but I'm starting to look closer at front projection as an option.

Last night I dreamed of a Pio Kuro FP and a 12' screen.

http://members.shaw.ca/blackbullet/piomaniac.jpg

^^^
Best Ad Image for a Plasma EVER!

Okay, let's just cut to the chase. I have a few questions and dont have time to go through a zillion pages of posts...Great straight line, but I'm going to leave it alone. :rolleyes:

1. If I can afford the 9G Elite 60inch is it worth the extra grand?The reflection in your mirror has to answer that one.

I think it's more than that because elite dealers typically do not deal and I have yet to find a mail order company who will ship an elite to me because they are scared of pi$$ing off Pioneer.During the past year many people in the G8 threads bought Elite models from AVS sponsers. You just use your phone instead of your computer to order from them. Their ads are at the top and bottom of each page.

2. Is the 60inch Elite going to have the same dimensions as the non-elite?If you don't plan on using the TV's speakers, they should be identical. If you do use the speakers, the Elite will be about seven inches wider.

Can anyone tell me what Forum Sponsors carry pioneer elite plasmas?

Value Electroincs
BuyBestPlasma
Axxis Audio

HOW ABOUT SOME REAL SPECS?

even Tweeter etc. has them.

example: 151FD weighs 122 lbs.

I will be sitting approx 13' from the set.

Which would be better for viewing the 50 " or the 60"?
thx

I will be sitting approx 13' from the set.

Which would be better for viewing the 50 " or the 60"?
thx

no question the 60"

under 10' I could see going with the 50"

I'm not one bit surprised about the lack of CableCARD. With SDV being deployed around the country, any CableCARD feature on a non-tru2way TV could be a useless feature.

So far only, Samsung, LG and Panasonic have announced tru2way TVs and even those won't be out until the fall and who knows when they'll actually be supported by the cable co. So far the FCC has not set a deadline that the cable co's have to support them.

As much as I'd love to have a Kuro with tru2way, it looks like we'll have to wait at least another year. As for tru2way in general, we should know alot more next week during the Cable Show as there are lots of tru2way sessions scheduled.

As a noobie here I am sorry if this has been answered but.... I have the opportunity to get a PRO 150FD floor model from BB at a pretty reduced price. I am wondering if there would be an advantage to waiting and getting the newer model? I am told the floor model has been on display for about 4 months and it looks awesome. I have a Sony XRD DLP today but really would like to upgrade as we watch a lot of TV and movies. Also with Pioneer outsourcing their Plasma does that reinforce that now would be the time to get a Kuro Elite?

Thank you for your ideas.

Looks like this:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0790.jpg
If you leave the speaker bar on the bottom connected, you won't see the "Chicken Legs" or the wiring.

But I am not using a stand. The 6010 is going to be flush mounted on a wall. Will I see wiring?? I don't understand.

The electrical outlet is in the back of the tv, and the hdmi cable is running through the wall behind the tv. Can't see how wiring is exposed by removing the bottom speaker. And the chicken legs are for the stand, not for a mounted tv.

HOW ABOUT SOME REAL SPECS?

even Tweeter etc. has them.

example: 151FD weighs 122 lbs.Really? Tweeter? They could even get the 151FD MSRP correct.

No thank you. When my contact says I can post additional info, I will :)

I'm sitting at 10'6" and the 60" is almost too small.

check the hours on the TV and the current settings. see if you can tell it has been on torch mode for any extended period of time.

honestly i would never buy a floor model Kuro, i don't think.

HOW ABOUT SOME REAL SPECS?

even Tweeter etc. has them.

example: 151FD weighs 122 lbs.

That sounds heavy to me. Maybe the shipping weight is 122, including speakers, stand, box, etc. My Panny 58PX600 is 130+ lbs and it has 2 panes of glass.

I have a Sony XRD DLP today but really would like to upgrade as we watch a lot of TV and movies. Also with Pioneer outsourcing their Plasma does that reinforce that now would be the time to get a Kuro Elite?

Thank you for your ideas.9Gs are NOT outsourced panels.

That scene you are talking about is the first thing I saw playing on a Kuro and it did stand out:).

I thought Robert had said that but maybe I'm mistaken. I have seen that mentioned a few other times on different sites. Guess we'll hear about it soon enough hopefully.

You might be thinking of the British gentleman who posted on a Euro forum with pics after attending a demo - he did find the jump up the same as from 7G to 8G.

Robert was not quite there.

9Gs are NOT outsourced panels.

That's going to be a damn hard misconception to kill, isn't it? For every person we set straight, 5 more will have heard the opposite from Joe Salesman.

I will be sitting approx 13' from the set.

Which would be better for viewing the 50 " or the 60"?
thx

no question the 60"

under 10' I could see going with the 50"

Definately 60" !!!


This is exactly why I want Bigger than 60", at 13' viewing distance
the SMPTE (Science of Motion Picture and Television Engineers')
recommends a screen size of 83.6" when you plug a 13' viewing distance (16:9 screen) into the calculator here:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

60" = 8'-0" recommended viewing distance
"If" you are interested in the cinematic effect of a 30º viewing angle to
fill your feild of vision.

THX recommendations are even closer 6.7' ( at 36º)

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/files/viewing.jpg


If you just want to "watch TV", sure 60" is fine at 13'

I quickly got used to sitting at 6'-7' from my 50" Pioneer in my apartment, but
now that I'm getting set to move into my new home and my basement entertainment
area measures aprox 17' x 14' my options are limited while trying to maintain those viewing angles. :eek:

UM, I'm sorry but a calibrated Kuro elite has ZERO BLACK CRUSH! Anyone who says they see black crush on a kuro, is looking at one that is not calibrated right. I owned a XBR1 SXRD, and yes it had great shadow detail but not as good as my elite. 9Gs look great, but I'm holding out for ECC is 2009. D-nice is that still gonna happen? or do we have to wait until 2010 for the ECC?

I shouldn't have to have a professional calibration "bring out" missing details. I know some of you guys are pros and know what you are doing in the SM, but not all of us do. So when you guys post such information as you do you need to keep in mind that most of us tweak our TVs through the User Menu. My Kuro is a 6010 not an Elite. How much detail an Elite can bring out over a non-elite I cannot say, but the 6010 doesn't show more detail than my SXRD. If you have suggestions please advise as to what I can do via the user menu has it's limitations.

I shouldn't have to have a professional calibration "bring out" missing details. I know some of you guys are pros and know what you are doing in the SM, but not all of us do. So when you guys post such information as you do you need to keep in mind that most of us tweak our TVs through the User Menu. My Kuro is a 6010 not an Elite. How much detail an Elite can bring out over a non-elite I cannot say, but the 6010 doesn't show more detail than my SXRD. If you have suggestions please advise as to what I can do via the user menu has it's limitations.Your 6010 shows the exact same details as your SXRD.....only darker due to the much lower minimum luminance levels.
To put it another way, if your Kuro had the same minimum luminance levels as your SXRD, the black details would be identical.

But I am not using a stand. The 6010 is going to be flush mounted on a wall. Will I see wiring?? I don't understand.

The electrical outlet is in the back of the tv, and the hdmi cable is running through the wall behind the tv. Can't see how wiring is exposed by removing the bottom speaker. And the chicken legs are for the stand, not for a mounted tv.

I think you answered your own question :). If you are mounting the TV, none of this chicken legs talk applies, as you are removing the stand. Removing the speaker or not makes no difference in this case. You will be fishing the wires straight back into the wall and all will be hidden.

I think you answered your own question :). If you are mounting the TV, none of this chicken legs talk applies, as you are removing the stand. Removing the speaker or not makes no difference in this case. You will be fishing the wires straight back into the wall and all will be hidden.

+1 I was about to answer his question but you've done a fine job.:)

i'm going to put on the speaker tonight and see how it looks. completely asthetic reasons - i won't be using it. it'll just take away from the fully glossy bezel look i think. and i hate to have extraneous things i'm not even using.

Not much new, but here is what CNET is saying:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9938236-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

even reviewers are spewing this stuff:

"In case you're keeping track, this is the final generation of Kuro panels that Pioneer will manufacture itself. In 2009 and beyond, Panasonic will manufacture the actual panels. There's no way to determine how this change in panel manufacturing will affect the actual picture quality of those future Kuro models, but we suspect that by the time those 2009 Panasonic-sourced Kuro HDTVs are rolled out, they will perform just as well, if not better, than the current Pioneer-sourced ones. Pioneer, for what it's worth, naturally claims its future Kuro HDTVs will still lead the industry in performance. Only time will tell."

does no one have their facts straight?

As much as I love the Pioneers picture, and am saving as we speak, that 'chicken legs' stand has got to be the most hideous stand ever on a five thousand dollar tv. Am I wrong to expect a little more 'class' from a premier brand? Looks like wall mounting will definitely be in order.

even reviewers are spewing this stuff:

"In case you're keeping track, this is the final generation of Kuro panels that Pioneer will manufacture itself. In 2009 and beyond, Panasonic will manufacture the actual panels. There's no way to determine how this change in panel manufacturing will affect the actual picture quality of those future Kuro models, but we suspect that by the time those 2009 Panasonic-sourced Kuro HDTVs are rolled out, they will perform just as well, if not better, than the current Pioneer-sourced ones. Pioneer, for what it's worth, naturally claims its future Kuro HDTVs will still lead the industry in performance. Only time will tell."

does no one have their facts straight?I don't see any misinformation there. They are talking about the glass ("actual panel").


ron

I am currently sitting at 7 feet from my TV ... should be about perfect for the 60" model!

Personally I found the greens (grass) to be hideous on the early SXRD (actually grass is poorly reproduced on many TV's) ... one of the reasons I completely rejected it from the beginning. I don't know if they have improved any on newer models as I have not bothered to look at them. For me true color reproduction is just as important ... or even more ... than the blacks. Also, of major importance is proper skin tones ... that can really turn me off a television set.

I recently saw the latest Runco one chip projector in a theatre setting (set up in a room by itself as it would be in a home) ... now that is real life-like reproduction! I only wish I could afford one!

yeah, you're probably right. it sounded like an all-encompassing word when i read that. should've said glass. but they do make it sound like Panny is going to be like a vender to Pio in all aspects - "Panasonic-sourced". it's probably just the way they said it but it still seems to reek of what most misinformed people are saying.

As much as I love the Pioneers picture, and am saving as we speak, that 'chicken legs' stand has got to be the most hideous stand ever on a five thousand dollar tv. Am I wrong to expect a little more 'class' from a premier brand? Looks like wall mounting will definitely be in order.

Basically treat the speaker as non-removable unless wall-mounting. Clearly thats the way the set was designed. I think the unit as a whole looks good with the speaker on anyway, so personally I like the design. Definitely better than the tvs (mostly lcds) that look like they are trying too hard by adding ridiculous things to the bezel (holes? red? seriously?). Personally the panasonic pro 10UK is the best design-wise to me, but the kuros come close.

Basically treat the speaker as non-removable unless wall-mounting. Clearly thats the way the set was designed. I think the unit as a whole looks good with the speaker on anyway, so personally I like the design. Definitely better than the tvs (mostly lcds) that look like they are trying too hard by adding ridiculous things to the bezel (holes? red? seriously?). Personally the panasonic pro 10UK is the best design-wise to me, but the kuros come close.

The 5070 has a far more esthetically pleasing stand over the 5080, (I have both, side by side)
and after removing the speaker like I did on my 5070, you have the option of lowering the TV about 2.5" to hide the "chicken legs".

..its just a second set of mounting holes further up on the rear face of the PDP-5070.

What is the width of the Pioneer Elite PRO-141FD?

Actually, is there a place we can get the dimensions of all 9G displays?
Or are they the same as 8G?
Thanks

D-Nice,

Do you know when more information will be released concerning the 101 and 141?

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9938236-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

Pioneer's entry-level 2008 plasmas are still priced higher than comparable models from Panasonic and Samsung, but that's normal for the company. These two non-Elite sets--"Elite" is Pioneer's designation for its step-up models, detailed below--also cost significantly more than their 2007 counterparts, so if you're looking for a "bargain" on a Kuro, it's probably time to snap up a 2007 model before they sell out.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/banghead.gif

Why is it so hard to understand that Pioneer is DROPPING the MSRP for the 1080p 9Gs?

('07)PDP-5010 MSRP $5000
('08)PDP-5020 MSRP $4000

('07)PDP-6010 MSRP $6500
('08)PDP-6020 MSRP $5500

('07) PRO-110FD MSRP $6000
('08) PRO-111FD MSRP $5000

('07) PRO-150FD MSRP $7500
('08) PRO-151FD MSRP $6500

To me, it looks they cost significantly less than their 2007 "counterparts", wouldn't you agree?

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9938236-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt



http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/banghead.gif

Why is it so hard to understand that Pioneer is DROPPING the MSRP for the 1080p 9Gs?

('07)PDP-5010 MSRP $5000
('08)PDP-5020 MSRP $4000

('07)PDP-6010 MSRP $6500
('08)PDP-6020 MSRP $5500

('07) PRO-110FD MSRP $6000
('08) PRO-111FD MSRP $5000

('07) PRO-150FD MSRP $7500
('08) PRO-151FD MSRP $6500

To me, it looks they cost significantly less than their 2007 "counterparts", wouldn't you agree?

I'd say about a grand per model, HDPeeT. :D

I'm at such a crossroads right now guys...I have a 150FD 8Gen waiting for me now to buy...should I go for this or wait for the 9Gen non-elite 60"?

is it going to be that much more noticeable?...help! :confused:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9938236-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt



http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/banghead.gif

Why is it so hard to understand that Pioneer is DROPPING the MSRP for the 1080p 9Gs?

('07)PDP-5010 MSRP $5000
('08)PDP-5020 MSRP $4000

('07)PDP-6010 MSRP $6500
('08)PDP-6020 MSRP $5500

('07) PRO-110FD MSRP $6000
('08) PRO-111FD MSRP $5000

('07) PRO-150FD MSRP $7500
('08) PRO-151FD MSRP $6500

To me, it looks they cost significantly less than their 2007 "counterparts", wouldn't you agree?

CNET is awful, especially CRAVE. Cnet CRAVE wants to be engadget and gizmodo, but is always a day late on its news and often gets things incorrect. Do not pay much attention to Cnet.

gwhzz35 First congrats that you can actually find a 150! They are great. Depends on your investment price. You dont have to tell me as thats against the rules but the 151 should be the same or cheaper, so why not wait? But if you dont want to wait as beginning supplies will be slim then go for it.

I shouldn't have to have a professional calibration "bring out" missing details. I know some of you guys are pros and know what you are doing in the SM, but not all of us do. So when you guys post such information as you do you need to keep in mind that most of us tweak our TVs through the User Menu. My Kuro is a 6010 not an Elite. How much detail an Elite can bring out over a non-elite I cannot say, but the 6010 doesn't show more detail than my SXRD. If you have suggestions please advise as to what I can do via the user menu has it's limitations.

Dude plain and simple, turn off DRE, turn off Black level enhancer, set gamma to 3, and dont lower brightness lower then -1. Take two of these and call me in the morning.

cybertec, you seriously need to buy a 9g. This forum will need an "Official Pioneer Kuro Pictures Thread PT. 2" and you're just the man for the job. :)May you be the first one to donate to my new Kuro fund:D

HOW ABOUT SOME REAL SPECS?

even Tweeter etc. has them.

example: 151FD weighs 122 lbs.

I think we've learned not to trust Tweeter 'specs'. If they can't get the MSRP right, what are the odds they'll get the fine points correct?

I'm not one bit surprised about the lack of CableCARD. With SDV being deployed around the country, any CableCARD feature on a non-tru2way TV could be a useless feature.

So far only, Samsung, LG and Panasonic have announced tru2way TVs and even those won't be out until the fall and who knows when they'll actually be supported by the cable co. So far the FCC has not set a deadline that the cable co's have to support them.

As much as I'd love to have a Kuro with tru2way, it looks like we'll have to wait at least another year. As for tru2way in general, we should know alot more next week during the Cable Show as there are lots of tru2way sessions scheduled.

If one was to have FIOS and a 9G, would the cable card reduce the compression or is FIOS so big that Verizon does not have to compress the HD channels, so a Cable Card would provide no benefit in terms of a better picture for FIOS users?

If one was to have FIOS and a 9G, would the cable card reduce the compression or is FIOS so big that Verizon does not have to compress the HD channels, so a Cable Card would provide no benefit in terms of a better picture for FIOS users?

Verizon FIOS uses compression just like every other HDTV provider, they just don't use AS much.

It would take FAR more bandwidth than even Verizon can offer to transmit uncompressed HD.

Verizon FIOS uses compression just like every other HDTV provider, they just don't use AS much.

It would take FAR more bandwidth than even Verizon can offer to transmit uncompressed HD.

Not quite. While they do compress SD they don't compress HD. The HD is compressed at the source, i.e. the cable channel or broadcaster. FiOS does not add any compression to the signal they receive.

if your Kuro had the same minimum luminance levels as your SXRD, the black details would be identical.

That's not quite right. Peak brightness to black level only does contrast ratio. Black details (shadow detail) is dependent on many factors:

1) Gamma setting, if his tweaked to liking by eye SXRD has an ~2.2 gamma or lower, possibly 2.0 even, but your calibrated Kuro has 2.4 - 2.5, matching:

Display gamma 2.5 / Camera gamma 2.2 = system gamma ~1.14 ( This is what the director sees on his screening room)

Then his black details will be more but show a higher black level at the expense of haze.

2) If his SXRD has a gamma bump, an S shaped gamma curve ( below 20 IRE gamma is ~2.0 or even lower, while above 20 IRE is 2.2+ gamma), etc, his SXRD can be made to show more shadow detail, even though his black level is more. Again at the cost of haze, with the added bonus of the bumped area below 20 IRE having screwed up colors compared to the regular gamma of 2.2.

3) If the SXRD has a cooler color temperature, like it's not unheard of that the low IREs under 20 can go way over 12,000K+ color temperature, that will increase shadow detail over the Kuro properly calibrated to 6500K.

That's not to mean the SXRD will look better overall, but if the point is:
"My uncalibrated SXRD has better black details than a calibrated Kuro," he is 100% correct, he can on his own with Sony preset options (not even as extreme as Dynamic mode), make his SXRD have so much black detail, beyond what is supposed to be seen even. But, his colors will be wrong, his gamma will be all over the place, it will look an ungodly ugly mess, and so hideous in all aspects as to make me puke. The average Joe-six-pack doesn't care about that, just "haw, I told you I can see more stuff in the dark scenes."

gwhzz35 First congrats that you can actually find a 150! They are great. Depends on your investment price. You dont have to tell me as thats against the rules but the 151 should be the same or cheaper, so why not wait? But if you dont want to wait as beginning supplies will be slim then go for it.


Thanks Roman...well in my case the 151 is quite more than the 150.
I would be considering the 6020. I just wonder if it will be that much more better as the 6020 is not Elite, but obviously the 150 is...hmm.
I'm also a bit leery about the first batch of 9Gs going out...well you know that goes with first batches at times.

Really? Tweeter? They could even get the 151FD MSRP correct.

We'll see....price in their comp. still hasn't changed......

No thank you. When my contact says I can post additional info, I will :)

Eagerly waiting! :)

gwhzz, I'm guessing that if the 151 is much more than the 150, you're comparing 150 street price with 151 MSRP. Am I right? Why not find out what the sponsors carry the 151 for. If last year is any guide, you may be in for a very pleasant surprise.