OK no one here really knows me but I've been around for a long time. I've spent more time over at HTF.

Well, after literally years of needing a new display I'm finally ready. My 15+ year old 27" Trinitron died on me a few months back and I've been using a 20" junker since. My 13 yr. old is dying waiting (telling him about the old days when we had to get up to change channels, or when tuners were not automatic but you had to tune in the entire cable line-up manually doesn't help! ;)).

I've got an actual budget now though and 2 displays to shop for. I need 1 50" for my parents (they live next door) and one for my house, probably 46". Viewing distances are about 11 feet and 13 feet.

Now considering 2 40-42" sets. Reason: these will be cheaper yet and able to migrate to a bedroom in a couple years. Can't really do 50" in an office or bedroom. Thoughts?

I think I've got the following nailed down:
- Can't stand motion artifacts, so it seems plasma is the only choice
- NOW CONSIDERING 720 also. Just too many people advising me to save some money for this reason not to consider it 1080p (yes I know about the hype, but I can see the difference)
- The sizes obviously
- I do NOT need speakers, surround is already in place

We watch a fair amount of SD, but that will improve with HD cable. Our biggest concern is going to be movies, Blu-ray (have to get that also).

My concerns are:
- am I nuts for going the plasma route with 4 kids, two of which are 3 & 5?
- how important is 24p? I love the notion, but the price is daunting.
- am I discounting LCD unduly?

Budget: I'd like to stay around $2k or less for the 50" and less for the 46".

Looking at: Panny and Samsung. Too many models for my old brain.


HELP!

PS- I will be visiting an uncle in Vegas, any places better than BB to look at Samsung and Panny?

Well, I would go for the 550 series from Samsung for the 50" and the Pany PZ85 for the 46" (because they are the only ones that sell 46" for plasma).

If 2:3 pulldown didnt bother you on your CRT, then you dont need to worry about 24p.

You're going to get speakers, whether you like it or not, unless you buy a Panasonic Professional Series. For your 50" I'd recommend you look at either the Panasonic TH-50PZ85U or the Samsung PN50A550, neither will do 24p. The Panasonic will have the deeper blacks but it also has over saturated colors compared to the Samsung. If you want a 1080p plasma that can display 24p properly, the cheapest would be the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U, that would be about ~$400 over your budget for the 50".

Well, I would go for the 550 series from Samsung for the 50" and the Pany PZ85 for the 46" (because they are the only ones that sell 46" for plasma).

If 2:3 pulldown didnt bother you on your CRT, then you dont need to worry about 24p.

OK, why the Samsung over the Panny in the same size?

There must be more to 24p than that! I mean all I ever had with my old CRT was a standard DVD.

You're going to get speakers, whether you like it or not, unless you buy a Panasonic Professional Series. For your 50" I'd recommend you look at either the Panasonic TH-50PZ85U or the Samsung PN50A550, neither will do 24p. The Panasonic will have the deeper blacks but it also has over saturated colors compared to the Samsung. If you want a 1080p plasma that can display 24p properly, the cheapest would be the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U, that would be about ~$400 over your budget for the 50".

OK, well I assumed that someone might suggest a pro display specifically, I;ve read so much about the improved settings, etc.

As for the saturation, I was under the impression that it was the other way around.

My concerns are:
- am I nuts for going the plasma route with 4 kids, two of which are 3 & 5? I don't have kids so I couldn't answer that.


- how important is 24p? I love the notion, but the price is daunting. Not the most important thing, but for me, it's a feature I want in my future plasma.


- am I discounting LCD unduly?
No! Plasmas handle motion better, they have deeper blacks, better contrast, more accurate colors and MUCH better viewing angles.

OK, why the Samsung over the Panny in the same size?

There must be more to 24p than that! I mean all I ever had with my old CRT was a standard DVD.

The Sammy has way more settings. It has nearly perfectly accurate colors out of the box. It has a better processor.

Theres nothing more to 24p than that. Movies are shot in 24p. Conversion has to be done, and is done on like 99% or more of all TVs, blu ray or DVD is the same.

The Sammy has way more settings. It has nearly perfectly accurate colors out of the box. It has a better processor.

Theres nothing more to 24p than that. Movies are shot in 24p. Conversion has to be done, and is done on like 99% or more of all TVs, blu ray or DVD is the same.

Sounds to me like I need not be concerned, even considering my over critical eye.

Anymore suggestions?

Simple test.

go look at both.

look for flaws that you actually notice. There are so many possible flaws, but not everyone will notice all of them. Motion blur is an example. So many people just can't see it, but it drives me insane. 3:2 pulldown. again, so many never notice even when it is pointed out to them. buzz. your ears may not pick up the frequency of the buzzing. so many more that may or may not be an issue specifically for you.

double check with your family's perceptions. they may be sensitive to a flaw that you are not.

buy the one with the least flaws that is in your price range.

Anymore suggestions?

I say go with 2 50" displays; only cause panny is the only one that makes a 46" plasma, so why limit yourself; it's probably a great tv but a 50" would be about the same dollar amount, actually probably less. The 46" may look small after a few weeks, heck 50" usually do.

Go with the pro panny line, you won't regret it, unless you need speakers built in. They are very inexpensive right now with the site sponsor listed above, and the tweaks in them are way better than a consumer model.

The biggest thing is to go look at them for yourself like another poster mentioned. I personally don't like Samsung plasmas; LCD line go with SamSung For Plasma Line go with Pio or Panny.......just my 2 cents

I say go with 2 50" displays; only cause panny is the only one that makes a 46" plasma, so why limit yourself; it's probably a great tv but a 50" would be about the same dollar amount, actually probably less. The 46" may look small after a few weeks, heck 50" usually do.

Go with the pro panny line, you won't regret it, unless you need speakers built in. They are very inexpensive right now with the site sponsor listed above, and the tweaks in them are way better than a consumer model.

The biggest thing is to go look at them for yourself like another poster mentioned. I personally don't like Samsung plasmas; LCD line go with SamSung For Plasma Line go with Pio or Panny.......just my 2 cents

Precisely why I asked about the Pro models, thanks. However I did notice that they have much lower contrast ratios compared to the consumer models.

Are you and your parents' needs the same? i.e. do both of you have external sound systems? Are they as picky as you? Or do you want to make sure both are similar quality since you will be over there a lot?

You're going to get speakers, whether you like it or not, unless you buy a Panasonic Professional Series. For your 50" I'd recommend you look at either the Panasonic TH-50PZ85U or the Samsung PN50A550, neither will do 24p. The Panasonic will have the deeper blacks but it also has over saturated colors compared to the Samsung. If you want a 1080p plasma that can display 24p properly, the cheapest would be the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U, that would be about ~$400 over your budget for the 50".
I would say that HD Peet has you covered. Panasonic TH-50PZ85U or the Samsung PN50A550 to stay in budget. Panasonic TH-50PZ800U if you don't mind spending a little more.

If you want to get a great unit for a great price the Samsung HP-T5054 are a steel right now and you would save $600 off budget. They are 720P though :( (this would be just fine for your parents.)

No question with that distance you need 50" minimum displays.

Fr. John,
Based on your seating position you will not benefit in much by going 1080p.

I recommend that you go: 50PX80U or 50PH10UKA (since you already have speakers). Bypass the 46" display, since the size difference isn't much of big deal.

That would be my suggestion. This will keep you near your TARGET budget.

Chris

Agree about the distance -- at 11 feet and 13 feet a 50"+ display is a must.

Why go through all the time and trouble to buy a fancy new flat panel and then skimp on the size at that distance? It's a lot easier to get it right the first time. (I say this as someone who went from 42" to 50" at 8-9ft. 46" will not be enough at 11ft+).

I know you say you can see the difference, but are you SURE your parents need a 50" 1080p at 13 feet? You could save A LOT of cash with a Sammy 5054, Panny PX80U, or Panny 50PH10UKA (all out there in the $1200 range) and I doubt your parents (unless they are unbelievably keen sighted) would never miss 1080p at 13 feet.

I wouldn't worry too much about the contrast ratio spec of the 10UK's vs. the new 8xx series Pannies. I've spent a lot of time with my two Panny plasmas, and spent a lot of time in CC/BB looking at leftover 700U's and 75U's vs. the new ones, and yeah, you can notice the difference a little if you are a black freak, but all of these TV's look FANTASTIC. If you are a black level freak, and are going to flip out and drive yourself nuts every time you watch a dark scene and don't have the deepest blacks, then you should just go PZ85U all around because that's the deepest black this side of Kuro. Otherwise, the PQ of, say, a 700U vs. a 10UK vs. a 85U at 13 feet will be essentially identical.

Agree about the distance -- at 11 feet and 13 feet a 50"+ display is a must.

Why go through all the time and trouble to buy a fancy new flat panel and then skimp on the size at that distance? It's a lot easier to get it right the first time.

I know you say you can see the difference, but are you SURE your parents need a 50" 1080p at 13 feet? You could save A LOT of cash with a Sammy 5054, Panny PX80U, or Panny 50PH10UKA (all out there in the $1200 range) and I doubt your parents (unless they are unbelievably keen sighted) would never miss 1080p at 13 feet.

I wouldn't worry too much about the contrast ratio spec of the 10UK's vs. the new 8xx series Pannies. I've spent a lot of time with my two Panny plasmas, and looked in CC/BB at leftover 700U's and 75U's vs. the ones, and yeah, you can notice the difference a little if you are a black freak, but all of these TV's look FANTASTIC. If you are a black level freak, and are going to flip out and drive yourself nuts every time you watch a dark scene and don't have the deepest blacks, then you should just go PZ85U all around. Otherwise, the PQ of, say, a 700U vs. a 10UK vs. a 85U at 13 feet will be essentially identical.

I agree with you 110%. I just beat you by 30 seconds...! ;)

Chris

Are you and your parents' needs the same? i.e. do both of you have external sound systems? Are they as picky as you? Or do you want to make sure both are similar quality since you will be over there a lot?

Yes, we are both running surround systems. My father is the source of my pickiness, so yes, we are both "budget" videophiles. We had every major version of Sony Beta machines from about 1980-90 (including the talking one).

They are 720P though :( (this would be just fine for your parents.)....

Actually (reference above) he would see the difference, he's not really all that old yet (63) and his eyes are still pretty darn sharp, so I think we're stuck on 1080. PLUS, we live next to each other in a duplex, there would be a never ending discussion of who had the better set!

Fr. John,
Based on your seating position you will not benefit in much by going 1080p.
.....
That would be my suggestion. This will keep you near your TARGET budget.
Chris

Any amount will be missed. Will do on your 50" recommendation though.

...Why go through all the time and trouble to buy a fancy new flat panel and then skimp on the size at that distance? It's a lot easier to get it right the first time. (I say this as someone who went from 42" to 50" at 8-9ft. 46" will not be enough at 11ft+).....

I wouldn't worry too much about the contrast ratio spec of the 10UK's vs. the new 8xx series Pannies. I've spent a lot of time with my two Panny plasmas, and spent a lot of time in CC/BB looking at leftover 700U's and 75U's vs. the new ones, and yeah, you can notice the difference a little if you are a black freak, but all of these TV's look FANTASTIC. ...

Both points taken and I agree.

I don't think even someone with perfect 20-20 vision would be able to notice the difference between 1080p and 720p (assuming that the sets were otherwise the same) unless they were closer than 9ft to a 50' set. The experts actually seem to be saying that you'd have to be about 7.5ft from a 50' set to notice the difference.

I don't think even someone with perfect 20-20 vision would be able to notice the difference between 1080p and 720p (assuming that the sets were otherwise the same) unless they were closer than 9ft to a 50' set. The experts actually seem to be saying that you'd have to be about 7.5ft from a 50' set to notice the difference.

I'll concede that what I think may be the difference is just poor signal quality at the various stores. Who's to know? Unless you know someone with a good set-up you're stuck looking at Sam's club and BB! Can I assume that 720 would do better with SD content?

Fr.John,
If I may again, I have to agree with everyone here when I say that you will NOT SEE A DIFFERENCE on a 720p and 1080p 50" display, you just won't, not until you get up to the 55 to 58 inch and above. Plus 90% of your programming, I'm guessing will be on the cable or satellite and there is no "anything" NOTHING that transmits in 1080p at the moment, CEPT BLU-RAY!!

At your viewing distances, respectfully, it's crazy to think that you will see difference.

Again, it's your buck were just here trying to see that you don't waste it.

Also, the pro line you mentioned the contrast ratio is not that high compared to the other newer sets or the Samsungs. Not true, look up how they do contrast ratio and you'll see that companies all have there own way of coming up with a contrast ratio and NONE OF THEM are definitive. I've seen the new 30,000:1 contrast ratios on the new pannys, looks just like mine with the 10,000:1 contrast ratio; or I've seen some that claim even higher contrast ratios, like the sammys from last year yet the pannys contrast ratio was better, how could that be I thought, till I found out the truth.

Cheers, it's a process, but take peoples advice, it will save on the headaches, one guy about 6 months ago asked everyones advice and went agaisn't everything everyone told him and he regretted it and is now on his 3rd plasma, returned everyone of them, and now wished he would have listened. This board helped me buy my plasma and I've never looked back and I'm still loving my 50" 9uk, I just want to go bigger!!!

I'll concede that what I think may be the difference is just poor signal quality at the various stores. Who's to know? Unless you know someone with a good set-up you're stuck looking at Sam's club and BB! Can I assume that 720 would do better with SD content?

HHMM, tough question, but I'm guessing not, it all has to do with the processor in the display, I don't think the more or less pixels will make a difference on SD stuff. The processors ability to upconvert the image will more than likely help to make the SD content look good on a big display.

OK, gr689, I'm keeping my ears open!

I've modified the OP, parameters have changed!

Yes, we are both running surround systems. My father is the source of my pickiness, so yes, we are both "budget" videophiles. We had every major version of Sony Beta machines from about 1980-90 (including the talking one).

Actually (reference above) he would see the difference, he's not really all that old yet (63) and his eyes are still pretty darn sharp, so I think we're stuck on 1080. PLUS, we live next to each other in a duplex, there would be a never ending discussion of who had the better set!


Point taken -- in that case, you should both get the same exact TV so as to avoid any father/son jealousy or passive aggression! :D

You and your eagle-eyed father need to go to a Best Buy or Circuit City where they have a 768p plasma displayed next to a 1080p plasma (most CC's and BB's I go to have a PX80U next to a PZ80U or PZ85U) and demand that you see a Blu Ray fed to both sets. If they aren't willing to hook that up for you, then they don't deserve your business.

It's very difficult to tell when watching the crummy 1080i store loop if the differences you see are actually panel resolution, or just things like settings, contrast, compression artifacts, whatever. The nice thing about a movie is that you can just skip back to the beginning of the chapter to re-watch something -- those store loops fly by so fast that you can't actually critically examine differences.

So find a CC or BB that will do a Blu Ray hookup for you. Change the settings on the two sets so they are sane, and similar to each other. Taking them both out of VIVID and putting them both in STANDARD or CINEMA mode should get them pretty close. You're not doing a pro calibration here, obviously, but fiddling around for 5 minutes you should be able to get them close enough for these purposes.

One of the most important settings to change is to turn the Sharpness down to 0 (if it's a 7xx panny) or 50 (it it's an 8xx panny) -- almost every stock setting has the sharpness boosted so edge artifacts will obscure the true image quality.

Then, once you have the sets tweaked pretty close to each other and the Blu Ray is fired up, grab the remote and you and your dad do a critical comparison with a tape measure handy. Now, with both sets set up similarly, sharpness turned down, and a high quality 1080p feed, you and your dad can really decide at what distances you notice the extra detail on the 1080p set. Find a good chapter or two where there is a lot of detail (close up of faces, hair, etc) and check it out.

If you find that you still prefer the 1080p at distances of 10ft+, then your decision is made. If (as I expect) you find that you can't tell the difference beyond 7-8ft as with most people, your wallet just got a big boost.

Oh, also noticing that you are considering 42" sets..... if you truly intend to upgrade in 2 years and move it to the bedroom, that might work out, but if you look at pricing the 50" 768p set is really at the sweet spot in value right now.

Just checking out Amazon pricing, it looks like 42" 768p plasmas are around $900-1000 these days. You can get a Samsung 5054 for the same price, the newer Samsung PN50A450 for $1400, Panny 50px80u for $1400, Panny 50PH10UKA for $1300, etc. Back a couple years ago, when you were talking about $1000+ differences for 42" to 50", that was one thing, but to me it seems silly to spend $1000ish on a 42" set when you can get a 50" set for $1300ish, especially when you are viewing from 11-13 feet.

Thanks for the input Batpig (what a name!). Both very useful posts. I'll be in Vegas this weekend and hope to narrow things down.

I agree, even if you're trying to save a buck, and intend on replacing them in 2 or 3 years, at least go for the 50PX80.

I agree, even if you're trying to save a buck, and intend on replacing them in 2 or 3 years, at least go for the 50PX80.

Going to be pretty hard to use those 50" anywhere other than a pretty good size room. Just not gonna work in a bedroom or office.

Going to be pretty hard to use those 50" anywhere other than a pretty good size room. Just not gonna work in a bedroom or office.

It will shrink in no time, trust me.