I've had the Pearl for over a year and I want to upgrade:( The problems that I have with the Pearl are:

1. Soft picture
2. Dim Picture
3. Average Black Levels
4. NOT enough POP to the image.

I really want something that will be a noticeable improvement. I was looking at the Epson 1080ub, and the JVC RS1x. I want something that is SHARP, and has a lot of dynamic range. What would you recommend?

I have total light control, and am using a Carada 110" BW screen. I recently purchased the Benq w5000 and it pretty much gave me everything I wanted except for absolute black levels. Man, I Love the picture and would convert to single chip DLP in an instant. The price I paid for it would have made me keep it 100%. BUT, the ****ing rainbows:( I see them every minute and I also get eye fatigue from watching it. I have 3 months to decide if Im gonna keep it, but I doubt the Rainbows will get better or go away, so Im looking at different tech.

What I really want it a DLP image without using DLP tech. What would come closest to give me that really sharp, 3D picture of a DLP in a non DLP projector?

Basically it comes down to two things- money OR even more money. Having said that, have you seen the 200 that Sony makes? I have put the Sapphire (200) directly up against the black pearl (successor of your pearl) and the 200 is no slouch. Now that's the money part of the equation, the more money part would be the 3-chip DLP products. These have everything your looking for at roughly about double of the Sony and even more than that for the JVC version.

Interesting post, I'm curious myself as to what some of the other members have to say about this very same topic. One thing though, once you see what a 3-chip will do, it's a pretty compelling reason why the more money scenario may be the way to go, YMMV;)

What would you recommend?



Better source material.


and an RS2

Better source materials. I second that.:)

RS2 is unfortunately out of my pay scale. I would consider an RS1x though. As for source material. I have a Panasonic BD30 Bluray which is one of the better players. (not hight end, but good enough)

You guys who have seen a good single chip DLP know what Im talking about when it comes to sharpness and 3D pop. Tryg, I know that you also have a problem with RBE, but don't deny that those razor sharp images with high ANSI contrast would be mighty tempting in you giving up your RS1.

Just want to know if there is anything out there that compares to a 1 chip DLP in terms of Sharpness and 3D effect. To me my Benqw5000 reminds me very much of my Panasonic Plasma in terms of contrast and that looking out a window effect I get from it. Those damn Rainbows. Im going to try and live with it for a while but I need some good alternatives if/when i return the Benq.

I should mention that I have about 1300 hours on the Pearl (high lamp mode). How badly will that effect the picture? But still even when the Pearl was new, it never had the picture Im getting from the Benq now.

Maybe there is no such thing as a DLP picture form a non DLP projector!!!!!!!!

see a calibrated BENQ W5000 with latest soft: amazing machine for a way too low price :)
and many/most people really don't see rainbows (wcolor at 2.5x)
you will get the pop you want, twice of the JVC/SONY.

I've had the Pearl for over a year and I want to upgrade:( The problems that I have with the Pearl are:

1. Soft picture
2. Dim Picture
3. Average Black Levels
4. NOT enough POP to the image.

I really want something that will be a noticeable improvement. I was looking at the Epson 1080ub, and the JVC RS1x. I want something that is SHARP, and has a lot of dynamic range. What would you recommend?

I have total light control, and am using a Carada 110" BW screen. I recently purchased the Benq w5000 and it pretty much gave me everything I wanted except for absolute black levels. Man, I Love the picture and would convert to single chip DLP in an instant. The price I paid for it would have made me keep it 100%. BUT, the ****ing rainbows:( I see them every minute and I also get eye fatigue from watching it. I have 3 months to decide if Im gonna keep it, but I doubt the Rainbows will get better or go away, so Im looking at different tech.

What I really want it a DLP image without using DLP tech. What would come closest to give me that really sharp, 3D picture of a DLP in a non DLP projector?

You may not like hearing this, but the new Sony VW40 improves on all the areas of the VW50 you listed, and is in your price range. Talk to Jason Turk or other AVS reps and they will back me up on this. By most accounts the VW40 comes very close to the VW60 on PQ, with a few less features and a shorter warranty. Don't be fooled that "40" is numerically lower than "50", as the only thing lower is the original asking price.

..I should mention that I have about 1300 hours on the Pearl (high lamp mode). How badly will that effect the picture? ...There is a very good chance that 99% of the "pop" difference you are seeing is due to brightness difference.

I would aslo look at the Sony VW40 and the Epson 1080 UB.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/Best1080pProjectors032008/projectorawardwinners.php

There is a very good chance that 99% of the "pop" difference you are seeing is due to brightness difference.

I would aslo look at the Sony VW40 and the Epson 1080 UB.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/Best1080pProjectors032008/projectorawardwinners.php

Yes 1300 hours on a Pearl equeals very low lumens. That is probably at 200 lumens on a 110" screen. This will be very dim compared to a new W5000.

I just got a new IN83 which is very bright compared to my Panasonic AX100 with 900 hours on it. The AX100 is much brighter than a Pearl. However, even when I crank down the iris on my new IN83 so it is putting out about the same lumens (around 500) as I am getting from my AX100, my IN83 still apears to have a lot more "POP". I believe that is due to increased ansi CR wich results in improved white and black level from the IN83. The IN83 is also much sharper than my old AX100 but then again the IN83 is 4x the cost of an AX100, so I am not sure this is a fair comparison.

Try a new bulb.

The RS1 will be brighter. There is no DLP picture that doesn't come from a DLP projector. sorry.

Perhaps you could look for a good used 720p 3 chip dlp?

what the approximate value of a used 720p 3 chiper. Also, will a 3 chip DLP still have the same sharpness as a 1 chip? Wouldn't a 3 chip DLP be prone to convergence problems and thus a less sharp picture?

Well I don't know the used market on the 720p and up projectors so maybe they are too expensive.

Yeah they do have a little MC, but from regular viewing distance, I can't tell the difference in sharpness. The 720p C3X that I saw a while ago was very impressive! It was pretty dang bright too. YMMV.

Yes 1300 hours on a Pearl equeals very low lumens. That is probably at 200 lumens on a 110" screen. This will be very dim compared to a new W5000.

I just got a new IN83 which is very bright compared to my Panasonic AX100 with 900 hours on it. The AX100 is much brighter than a Pearl. However, even when I crank down the iris on my new IN83 so it is putting out about the same lumens (around 500) as I am getting from my AX100, my IN83 still apears to have a lot more "POP". I believe that is due to increased ansi CR wich results in improved white and black level from the IN83. The IN83 is also much sharper than my old AX100 but then again the IN83 is 4x the cost of an AX100, so I am not sure this is a fair comparison.

Yes- this is the key. There is no magical elixir- each of the 4 technologies have their pluses and minuses. You must decide what is most important to you.
Best black level- CRT
Best black level without CRT issues- D-ILA (rs2)
Most pop (3d) -DLP
cheapest- LCD- not to say lcd doesn't do a lot right. It may now be the most balanced at a fair price. In fact the 1080ub is a superb machine.
But the bottom line is dlp has a look that is, well dlp- I think someone on this board called it unique "dlpness"- You'll get some pop from the leaders in LCD (epson) and Dila (rs2) but they will not have that "dlpness"
I went from LCD, auditioned the RS1 and purchased the in83. There are momments when the picture is stunning and there is a 3d effect to some scenes that is unique to dlp. And yes this this is bright but that pop is there with the iris clamped down. So far it's a beautiful machine...of course you need to look at the issues with each technology and decide what's most important to you and what will work for you. The IN83 has a nasty fixed offset. I spent a full day mounting it to get it just right without using keystone- ended up tilting my screen a bit. Worked out perfect.

Yes- this is the key. There is no magical elixir- each of the 4 technologies have their pluses and minuses. You must decide what is most important to you.
Best black level- CRT
Best black level without CRT issues- D-ILA (rs2)
Most pop (3d) DLP
cheapest LCD- not to say lcd doesn't do a lot right. It may now be the most balanced at a fair price. In fact the 1080ub is a superb machine.
But the bottom line is dlp has a look that is, well dlp- I think someone on this board called it unique "dlpness"- You'll get some pop from the leaders in LCD (epson) and Dila (rs2) but they will not have that "dlpness"
I went from LCD, auditioned the RS1 and purchased the in83. There are momments when the picture is stunning and there is a 3d effect to some scenes that is unique to dlp. And yes this this is bright but that pop is there with the iris clamped down. So far it's a beautiful machine...of course you need to look at the issues with each technology and decide what's most important to you and what will work for you. The IN83 has a nasty fixed offset. I spent a full day mounting it to get it just right without using keystone- ended up tilting my screen a bit. Worked out perfect.

I think you've captured the essence of this issue quite well. For those that are hooked on the look of a DLP, there is not substitute that I've discovered.

Rainbows are bothering me a little less now. I think my brain may be adjusting to it. I watched spiderman 3 last night and only noticed the rainbows only 20 or so times (compared to a few every minute when I first tried) Im gonna do a little test. I will keep the Projector for at least a month. I will watch it everyday and see if the rainbows get less noticeable. The human brain is a very adaptable machine, and Im thinking it may adapt to RBE and just filter it out eventually. I also think eye fatigue could be from the extra brightness Im getting which Im not yet used too.

I have to take this time to mention what a wonderful machine the Benqw5000 is! I paid 2300.00CAD for it after 500.000 mail in rebate and I can't believe what a steal that is. The Black levels with the iris in the lower setting and dynamic black on gives me better blacks then my Pearl. The sharpness and pop is amazing. Colors are spot on, and uniformity is perfect. Honestly I can't imagine why someone would not buy one if they are not sensitive to RBE. Also, the video noise issue that projectorcentral mentioned in their review has been addressed with the newest firmware. I believe it was mostly the video noise why they gave the epson first place over the Benq.

If you like DLP and you see rainbows, wait for the LED versions or if you can score a 720 3-DLP and your viewing distance is >1.5x do it. Those machines are spectacular.

Hopefully, your brain will learn to mask the color separation it's seeing.

Try a bit dimmer picture (filter) from the BenQ, that might help also.

Are your projectors calibrated by any chance? I recently just learned how to properly calibrate greyscale with an eye-one and wow! did it ever make a difference. Without the eye-one and the HCFR software on my lap-top, I don't know how I ever would have 'discovered' the most accurate/best control settings. I spent just over an hour last night with my Z4, which after almost 2-years and infinite tweaking (using AVIA and DVE and eye-balling it) I was sure I was getting the most it could ever have to offer out of it... well after proper calibration with the eye-one I found out I was very wrong. The Z4, for being now dated with less impressive specs, became far more impressive than I would have ever guessed. Any day now my new VW-60 will arrive and I'm all set to calibrate it too... in fact, last night was suppose to be a 'dressed' rehearsal for the Sony. Any way, my current thinking is... what some one might wish to consider in comparing PQs of projectors is that their impressions/judgements can be a bit mislead if the individual projectors are not calibrated to do their best... and I believe 'eye-balling the set-up' just doesn't get it good enough to assure you are seeing a true 'straight-up' comparison.

It sounds like the 3chippers will be too much money for you from what I was looking at in some of the archives. I'm glad you found something that you like. I doubt that the rainbows will go away forever though. You will probably get used to them if you can tolerate them as-is now.

The thing about rainbows that keeps me from ever wanting to own a DLP is that even though you might not see them or you might be able to finally adjust to them, what about your guests? We have family, neighbors, and other friends over occasionally to watch a movie together or some special TV event and I would never want to risk having some one who does see and/or is bothered by rainbows to have to put up with it and possibly experience headaches or eye-strain fatigue just to be with all the rest of us. Watching a movie altogether should always be an enjoyable event for everyone... otherwise, what's the point? I have intentionally avoided DLP for that one single reason, even though I personally am neither susceptible to seeing a lot of rainbows nor am I bothered by an occasional flash of rainbow.

We have family, neighbors, and other friends over occasionally to watch a movie together or some special TV event and I would never want to risk having some one who does see and/or is bothered by rainbows to have to put up with it and possibly experience headaches or eye-strain fatigue just to be with all the rest of us. Watching a movie altogether should always be an enjoyable event for everyone... otherwise, what's the point? I have intentionally avoided DLP for that one single reason,

I concur with this. This is why I chose D-ILA back in 2000 and have stuck with it today. I want everyone to have a fantastic experience in my theater.

It's all about me. If people get sick from seeing rainbows I'll be kind enough to leave a few barf bags laying about; or I'll send them to the guest room to watch my amazing 26" Sony LCD:D

I hope I get used to the Rainbows. The Benq has a firmware update that will let me raise the color wheel speed to 6x which hopefully makes them even less visible. If not, then I'll most likely get an RS2.

BTW, can anyone PM the best place and the best price to get an RS2. 8000 is above my budget.

I concur with this. This is why I chose D-ILA back in 2000 and have stuck with it today. I want everyone to have a fantastic experience in my theater.
Youre such a philanthropist... Seriously though. Who gives a $hit? When i spend big dollars on my home theatre, its for me, not for uncle @$$hole and his POS kids. Besides, if rainbows can get my mother in law to leave sooner, im putting my DLP into whisper mode. Just my 2c.

I think I'd try a new lamp.

The Pearl is a damn good projector in my experiences with it. Your going to spend a lot of money and not end up with a lot better performance in my opinion.

Youre such a philanthropist... Seriously though. Who gives a $hit? When i spend big dollars on my home theatre, its for me, not for uncle @$$hole and his POS kids. Besides, if rainbows can get my mother in law to leave sooner, im putting my DLP into whisper mode. Just my 2c.

Do you share your drugs?

No, like my theatre, those are for me aswell :)

conan48,

Talk to AVS they have good prices service etc.

I think I'd try a new lamp.

The Pearl is a damn good projector in my experiences with it. Your going to spend a lot of money and not end up with a lot better performance in my opinion.
That may not necessarily be the case if his vw-50 isn't set-up properly to display at its best (ie.calibrated properly). He will just remain unaware of the true potential that his Pearl actually has and so he may indeed end up with a lot better performance from a much more expensive projector simply because it comes out of the box looking better. I don't know enough about the particulars of his situation since he never let it be known if both projectors were properly calibrated and how that was accomplished.

Oh, and I actually like hanging with my friends and neighbors and love having my family around... I know how unpopluar that is these days, I'm just so out-of-touch with everything that's cool, I'm from another generation.

Ballis. LOL. **** made me laugh out loud. Especially "POS kids":D

Youre such a philanthropist... Seriously though. Who gives a $hit? When i spend big dollars on my home theatre, its for me, not for uncle @$$hole and his POS kids. Besides, if rainbows can get my mother in law to leave sooner, im putting my DLP into whisper mode. Just my 2c.

You need to cut out the foul language. This is an all ages website, the cursing is not appreciated, nor acceptable.

You need to cut out the foul language. This is an all ages website, the cursing is not appreciated, nor acceptable.
i though the kids were residing in the under 3k forum, my bad.

Ballis. LOL. **** made me laugh out loud. Especially "POS kids":D

ill be here all night :)

what the approximate value of a used 720p 3 chiper. Also, will a 3 chip DLP still have the same sharpness as a 1 chip? Wouldn't a 3 chip DLP be prone to convergence problems and thus a less sharp picture?

HI sent you a PM.

CHEERS, TC

Youre such a philanthropist... Seriously though. Who gives a $hit? When i spend big dollars on my home theatre, its for me, not for uncle @$$hole and his POS kids. Besides, if rainbows can get my mother in law to leave sooner, im putting my DLP into whisper mode. Just my 2c.

Amen to that!

Youre such a philanthropist... Seriously though. Who gives a $hit? When i spend big dollars on my home theatre, its for me, not for uncle @$$hole and his POS kids. Besides, if rainbows can get my mother in law to leave sooner, im putting my DLP into whisper mode. Just my 2c.

Cranky today? :D

Ballis is on a roll.....

That level of cursing is at least borderline tolerated on here. :)


I have to admit to some truth to his statements...

Even not just with relatives. My theater has become very popular, a little tooo popular even. I really doubt LCD -vs- DLP is going to make the difference. I run LCD by the by.

Yeah I guess he has a bit of a point. My theater definitely pleases me mucho, but I don't mind the family using it. Don't have any uncles with crappy kids taking advantage though. I do like the theater to get used. Just like my pinballs.

I'd recommend the RS2. It has plenty of pop and is pretty sharp. Having upgraded to the rs2 from the rs1 I can say it has noticeable more image depth/pop and is a good deal sharper and of course it has great blacks (another area where it easily betters the RS1) for a digital. I think it'd fit the bill for you based on what you want but that's just my opinion.

It is a great projector.

Rainbows are bothering me a little less now. I think my brain may be adjusting to it. I watched spiderman 3 last night and only noticed the rainbows only 20 or so times (compared to a few every minute when I first tried) Im gonna do a little test. I will keep the Projector for at least a month. I will watch it everyday and see if the rainbows get less noticeable. The human brain is a very adaptable machine, and Im thinking it may adapt to RBE and just filter it out eventually. I also think eye fatigue could be from the extra brightness Im getting which Im not yet used too.

It is true that the ability to see rainbows can go away over time. I used to see them occasionally. I don't see them except very rarely now. And as far as guests seeing them, I've never had one person mention them, even when I've asked.

That said, the RS1 might be a good choice if your current Benq doesn't work out. The one I saw looked pretty good IMO.

Well having had the Pearl before and also a 720p Optoma H78DC3, let me say that I'm very happy having upgraded the RS-1. I can understand how the Pearl would not be bright enough as I had gone from a 1.3 gain screen to the 2.8 Dalite hp. That really helped but I think most people would not like the performance after 1000 hours.

Still on the 106" screen but I have to say the RS-1 is still a happy choice for me coming from the Pearl. The performance is a nice step up and I don't even think about black levels or anything but just enjoy the material.

Also, I have it sitting on a shelf to the side of the room and that's a really nice option as well. No chromatic problems either.

It is true that the ability to see rainbows can go away over time. I used to see them occasionally. I don't see them except very rarely now. And as far as guests seeing them, I've never had one person mention them, even when I've asked.

That said, the RS1 might be a good choice if your current Benq doesn't work out. The one I saw looked pretty good IMO.

That is interesting. I figured once you saw them, they would never go away. Single chip DLP gives me a headache + eyestrain which I find worse than the actual RBE. I wonder if that would go away with time.

I remember 2 or 3 first time I watch my Viewsonic PJL830 (1x or 2x colors wheel). I also felt headache+eyestrain. But it didn't take long for me to get use to it. I never had probleme after that. I never saw any rainbows. I consider this a blessing. :)

That is interesting. I figured once you saw them, they would never go away. Single chip DLP gives me a headache + eyestrain which I find worse than the actual RBE. I wonder if that would go away with time.

Even more interesting is the fact that my first projector 10 years ago was a DLP and I found it unwatchable !! I didn't know a DLP from a hole in the ground at the time, but switched to an InFocus LCD projector. My next machine was the classic NEC HT1000. A saw a few rainbows here and there but the picture more than made up for it. Next was the Optoma H79. I actually had the NEC and the H79 mounted at the same time on 2 different electric screens. I saw even fewer rainbows - very rare. Now with the dVision 1080p - its extremely rare. I think faster wheel speeds and different color wheels may expalin it too.

Rainbows are bothering me a little less now. I think my brain may be adjusting to it. I watched spiderman 3 last night and only noticed the rainbows only 20 or so times (compared to a few every minute when I first tried) Im gonna do a little test. I will keep the Projector for at least a month. I will watch it everyday and see if the rainbows get less noticeable. The human brain is a very adaptable machine, and Im thinking it may adapt to RBE and just filter it out eventually. I also think eye fatigue could be from the extra brightness Im getting which Im not yet used too.

I have to take this time to mention what a wonderful machine the Benqw5000 is! I paid 2300.00CAD for it after 500.000 mail in rebate and I can't believe what a steal that is. The Black levels with the iris in the lower setting and dynamic black on gives me better blacks then my Pearl. The sharpness and pop is amazing. Colors are spot on, and uniformity is perfect. Honestly I can't imagine why someone would not buy one if they are not sensitive to RBE. Also, the video noise issue that projectorcentral mentioned in their review has been addressed with the newest firmware. I believe it was mostly the video noise why they gave the epson first place over the Benq.

Conan,
From where did you purchase your W5000. That sounds like a good deal. I currently have an AE1000 and I'm really finding myself looking for that pop and 3D of a DLP. I really do not know for certain if I'm sensative to rainbows or not (never actually noticed them) so I want to be able to return the machine if I just can't tolerate it.

thx

Conan,
From where did you purchase your W5000. That sounds like a good deal. I currently have an AE1000 and I'm really finding myself looking for that pop and 3D of a DLP. I really do not know for certain if I'm sensative to rainbows or not (never actually noticed them) so I want to be able to return the machine if I just can't tolerate it.

thx

I usually only see them on larger screens etc. What DLP projectors have you seen and at what size?

I usually only see them on larger screens etc. What DLP projectors have you seen and at what size?

Hmm, let's see. Quite a few large screen RP dlp's. I have a friend with an older Sharp 720 (don't remember the model) in his theater and I've also looked at Runco's at a local shop. I think the screens were a slightly smaller than mine, relative to the seating anyway. I have a 100" wide 2.35 Vutec veiwing from between 8' and 16'. The panny is as smooth as silk by the way but lacks the 3d pop that (I think) I'm looking for.

It sounds like it will not be a problem for you.

Hmm, let's see. Quite a few large screen RP dlp's. I have a friend with an older Sharp 720 (don't remember the model) in his theater and I've also looked at Runco's at a local shop. I think the screens were a slightly smaller than mine, relative to the seating anyway. I have a 100" wide 2.35 Vutec veiwing from between 8' and 16'. The panny is as smooth as silk by the way but lacks the 3d pop that (I think) I'm looking for.


I think I'd have to get the new one andtry it before selling my AE1000U....

Silky smooth is right, natural... What ever you want to call it.. I love the projector. I have even thought of scoring a backup projector for the just in case. :)

It is true that the ability to see rainbows can go away over time. I used to see them occasionally. I don't see them except very rarely now. And as far as guests seeing them, I've never had one person mention them, even when I've asked.


I had the opposite experience. I initially never saw rainbows with my DLP projector, but over time I started to begin noticing them till the point where I saw them all the time. That is the biggest reason I switched to the RS1.

Sounds like the rainbow issue disappearing or reappearing is individual independant.

An issue never really mentioned is not only the 'frequency' of rainbows but the actual "SIZE' of them. I had an optoma H70 a long time ago and when I did see rainbows they were 'HUGE'. The 'flashes' could be as large as 1/3 the screen size. Other projectors had RBE but they were only 'little' ones on small areas or white credits. My Sharp 20000 may produce a few small rainbows every movie but some titles I never see it while on other material it is a little more frequent.

I know this may sound strange but has this situation ever been noticed by anyone else?

I have seen big and small rainbows. I know what you are saying.

Thank god I am not alone.:D

I think I'd have to get the new one andtry it before selling my AE1000U....

Silky smooth is right, natural... What ever you want to call it.. I love the projector. I have even thought of scoring a backup projector for the just in case. :)

Good thought John. I would definately try it out first. I've had the Panny for over a year and I do really like it so I was thinking of keeping it anyway, maybe even switching them out, if needed, depending on the material I planned on showing at a given time. i.e. football, xbox vs HD movies. I've been looking at the 5000 for a while and the sharpness and 3d pop everyone talks about is just getting a little too tempting. :) Obviously another unknown is placement. The panny so incredibly flexable with zoom and horz,vert, lens shift I imagine the Benq would be a lot more work to get it right.

Good thought John. I would definately try it out first. I've had the Panny for over a year and I do really like it so I was thinking of keeping it anyway, maybe even switching them out, if needed, depending on the material I planned on showing at a given time. i.e. football, xbox vs HD movies. I've been looking at the 5000 for a while and the sharpness and 3d pop everyone talks about is just getting a little too tempting. :) Obviously another unknown is placement. The panny so incredibly flexable with zoom and horz,vert, lens shift I imagine the Benq would be a lot more work to get it right.

I feel your pain. I'm torn between the W5000, VW40 or VW60, and the RS1 now as there are so many pros and cons to each one.

I'm (finally) looking to update my Dwin TV3, 720p DLP, one of the huge wins was it's a two-box unit so only a single cable (and I have a zillion sources - XBox+Xbox360, MCE PC, DirecTV HR20, DVD, HD-DVD, etc. etc.).

The black levels are low, and I'd like more brightness, but I've been surviving fine so I didn't have to spend 6 months researching like I did last time, including visits to CES etc., as I get a little carried away sometimes :-) Now I'm getting failures (goes b/w with posterization and flashing) multiple times during a standard movie showing, which typically reset after leaving it off for 5 min, but isn't a big hit with the wife and guests...

BTW I've never noticed rainbows, no guest has ever mentioned it.

I have a large screen in a large room, 137" diagonal, with my 'sweet' spot at 1.6x (so the older 3-DLP 720p like an inFocus 777 seem interesting) but there is auxiliary seating at about 1.2x and 2.2x, so 1080p would be nice for the 1.2x (though it's secondary), though I figured 1080p would be better for computer content, xbox playing (often closer than 1.6x as kids will sit on the floor in fron etc.), etc.

So I'd like pop/brightness, both because the large size (137" is 88% larger area than 100" so only 53% as bright) and ambient levels. Room has 100% full light control, but often have the downlights or sconces on a dim setting so people can see their popcorn, see buttons on the remote, etc. Also for some things (like Superbowl etc.) the side door is open as people filter in and out, so there can be a fair bitof ambient light.

I suppose I could upgrade my receiver or add a video processor to get a single HDMI cable to the projector (ceiling mounted in center of room, on main floor so can't easily fish through ceiling etc.).

When I looked around a while ago, the IN82 looked interesting but the fixed offset would require that I tilt my screen out about 7" a the top, Marantz VP15S2 sounded interesting but I saw a local demo and it didn't seem to have the brightness or pop, even on a 100" screen, what else has happened in the last 6 months or so?

That 777 is a pretty cool machine. The C3X 720p is another one to take a look at. You have a pretty big screen. You need those lumens! Not a bad time to upgrade Receivers to a 1.3 one etc.

Good VPs are out there too.

Skypalace,

For bigger screens it is very nice to have adequate brightness especially if you like to have a little ambient light around. But as you know there are not a lot of choices out there that have the needed lumens for larger screens like that.

If you went with say something like the JVC RS1 or the new Benq W20000 you would have about 12 foot lamberts on the screen when the bulb was new and you would be roughly half that with 600 hours on the bulb which will be pretty dim IMHO.

This leaves you with only a few choices like the HD81LV and the Infocus IN8x series. I wouldn't touch the HD81LV myself and the new IN83 is a better choice for less money anyway. The IN83 is capable of nearly 2x the calibrated lumens as the average home theater projector. Not many will argue that it also throws a stunning picture overall.

The problem as you said is the offset but honestly that can be dealt with. I am not sure how high your ceilings are or if you can lower your screen some but you may try that. I have 8' ceilings with a 120" 16x9 screen meaning I would need to have 21" from lens center to the top of the ceiling. I simply can't do that so I have about 11" from lens to the top of my screen with no tilt. This results in about 3/4" of trapezoid affect on each side of the screen. I simply mask that 3/4" on each side and you never notice the difference. Granted it is not a perfect solution but it works and doesn't hurt the picture quality at all.

For my future setup that will be a 150" 2.35 to 1 scope screen there is nothing else I would rather have under $10K. Honestly the IN83 makes my big screen attainable.

Good luck,

I got my Benqw5000 from Costco.ca. It was 2300.00 after 500.00 mail in rebate! As for Rainbows. I only see them in contrasty scenes. I watched Clerks 2 in HD yesterday and I think I only saw 1 rainbow! Im gonna send my Benq in for a firmware update that should increase the color wheel speed to 6x. from 5x.

Im still impressed with the Benq. This machine gives me the closest feeling to watching a plasma. Very sharp, 3D picture, with lots of depth. I think I may actually like it better then my 42" panny. Black Levels are only decent. With the IRis at 0 and Dynamic black on I get blacks that are better then my Pearl, but setting my Iris to +3 or higher raises the blacks quite a bit but gives that extra punch in brighter scenes. I wish the auto Iris performed better.

I got my Benqw5000 from Costco.ca. It was 2300.00 after 500.00 mail in rebate! As for Rainbows. I only see them in contrasty scenes. I watched Clerks 2 in HD yesterday and I think I only saw 1 rainbow! Im gonna send my Benq in for a firmware update that should increase the color wheel speed to 6x. from 5x.

Im still impressed with the Benq. This machine gives me the closest feeling to watching a plasma. Very sharp, 3D picture, with lots of depth. I think I may actually like it better then my 42" panny. Black Levels are only decent. With the IRis at 0 and Dynamic black on I get blacks that are better then my Pearl, but setting my Iris to +3 or higher raises the blacks quite a bit but gives that extra punch in brighter scenes. I wish the auto Iris performed better.

Greetings

PM sent re black levels.

regards
JohnG

Good thought John. I would definately try it out first. I've had the Panny for over a year and I do really like it so I was thinking of keeping it anyway, maybe even switching them out, if needed, depending on the material I planned on showing at a given time. i.e. football, xbox vs HD movies. I've been looking at the 5000 for a while and the sharpness and 3d pop everyone talks about is just getting a little too tempting. :) Obviously another unknown is placement. The panny so incredibly flexable with zoom and horz,vert, lens shift I imagine the Benq would be a lot more work to get it right.

could someone tell me how many lumens does the 5000 put out on best mode? thanks

could someone tell me how many lumens does the 5000 put out on best mode? thanks

See the following review:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq/w5000/performance.php
Cinema Mode: Lamp on high (Normal) Iris at 2, (default, and almost fully closed): 472 lumens

I got my Benqw5000 from Costco.ca. It was 2300.00 after 500.00 mail in rebate! As for Rainbows. I only see them in contrasty scenes. I watched Clerks 2 in HD yesterday and I think I only saw 1 rainbow! Im gonna send my Benq in for a firmware update that should increase the color wheel speed to 6x. from 5x.

Im still impressed with the Benq. This machine gives me the closest feeling to watching a plasma. Very sharp, 3D picture, with lots of depth. I think I may actually like it better then my 42" panny. Black Levels are only decent. With the IRis at 0 and Dynamic black on I get blacks that are better then my Pearl, but setting my Iris to +3 or higher raises the blacks quite a bit but gives that extra punch in brighter scenes. I wish the auto Iris performed better.

You're experiencing what I do with RBE. If I'm away from DLP for a week or more, I usually see it dramatically when I return. After a few days with it, I start to have trouble seeing it even when trying. Once in a while, I still see it in very contrasty scenes, but I wouldn't give up DLP's strengths for that rare appearance. I love single chip DLP and look forward to the time when they solve the LED issues - no more color wheel and, even more important, no more projection lamps.

Skypalace,

For bigger screens it is very nice to have adequate brightness especially if you like to have a little ambient light around. But as you know there are not a lot of choices out there that have the needed lumens for larger screens like that.

If you went with say something like the JVC RS1 or the new Benq W20000 you would have about 12 foot lamberts on the screen when the bulb was new and you would be roughly half that with 600 hours on the bulb which will be pretty dim IMHO.

This leaves you with only a few choices like the HD81LV and the Infocus IN8x series. I wouldn't touch the HD81LV myself and the new IN83 is a better choice for less money anyway. The IN83 is capable of nearly 2x the calibrated lumens as the average home theater projector. Not many will argue that it also throws a stunning picture overall.

The problem as you said is the offset but honestly that can be dealt with. I am not sure how high your ceilings are or if you can lower your screen some but you may try that. I have 8' ceilings with a 120" 16x9 screen meaning I would need to have 21" from lens center to the top of the ceiling. I simply can't do that so I have about 11" from lens to the top of my screen with no tilt. This results in about 3/4" of trapezoid affect on each side of the screen. I simply mask that 3/4" on each side and you never notice the difference. Granted it is not a perfect solution but it works and doesn't hurt the picture quality at all.

For my future setup that will be a 150" 2.35 to 1 scope screen there is nothing else I would rather have under $10K. Honestly the IN83 makes my big screen attainable.

Good luck,

Thanks much, the IN83 and the HD81-LV are what I've been looking at given their brightness, I really like the two-box design of the Optoma since it'd be a much easier drop-in replacement for my two-box Dwin, I'm currently using most inputs including VGA. Curious why you're not an Optoma fan, certainly it seems to need a calibration badly out of the box (versus the IN83 that seems to be well calibrated as is).

The IN83 looks super interesting but now I have to figure out how to handle the inputs, I have everything under the sun (svideo from old VCR, DVI from a Bravo DVD player, VGA from my HTPC), etc., I could upgrade to an AV reciever but would still either need to get a converter box or upgrade the video card on the HTPC, or go big and do a separate RadianceXP for example. Either would close to double the cost of my projector upgrade (if I went with a decent receiver like the Denon 5308).

I have a high ceiling (10.5 feet) but have a funky design where I have a wall to wall builtin under the screen, my Center speaker sits on it, and lowering the screen to get the offset would put the bottom of the screen behind the C speaker. Plus it would put the screen a little lower than I'd prefer.

My plan if necessary to deal with the offset would be to tilt the projector and the screen the same # of degrees to keep nomimal 90degrees would would fully eliminate keystoning, I have a black frame of course and black fabric walls so it would likely not be visible. My black alumimum frame does reflect light so using it to mask wouldn't work (unless I coated it with velvet or such). So I'd probably lower the screen partially to where I want it, then tilt the projector and screen to get rid of keystoning.

Sky,

My problem with the Optoma is the number of problems they have had with that HD-81 line including the HD-81LV. I have not heard many if any problems with the IN8x line of projectors and when you consider the IN83 has about the same calibrated lumens with a DC4 chip for less money it was a no brainer. I run a component cable and an HDMI cable to my projector and if I needed to run a VGA cable I would do that too as it is only one more cable. You can also find a good price on a DVD0 and convert everything to HDMI which I believe would put the combo at about the same price as the HD-81LV.

If it were me I would retire the VCR (I retired mine 10 years ago), replace the DVD player with the new OPPO, and run an HDMI and a VGA cable.

You also better have a hush box for the Optoma if you decide to go that way as it is noisy! The IN83 is not bad in low lamp and I can stand it in high but I am putting it in a hush box too.

what the approximate value of a used 720p 3 chiper. Also, will a 3 chip DLP still have the same sharpness as a 1 chip? Wouldn't a 3 chip DLP be prone to convergence problems and thus a less sharp picture?

InFocus 777 can be found for ~$3K...saw one on craigslist here in Austin.

Wow that is a better price than I have seen around here for the used 777s.

Sorry you are no longer happy with your Pearl. I've only had mine for about 4 months but it's by far the best PJ I've ever seen. This of course is subjective and it certainly is affected by what we upgraded from. I came from a budget 720 DLP and the Sony Pearl is WAY sharper....naturally the 1080 image takes the credit but after now seeing LCOS in my home I don't think I can go back to DLP. Creamy, but detailed. Never seen such a natural and pleasing image before and I've been in alot of high end retail stores too. :)

I love the image the Pearl puts out with Blu-ray, HD-DVD & HD cable. I'm sure the JVC entries and the newer Sony offerings are even better.

Good Luck in your search.

Tim, do you want to buy another one or know someone who wants one? It's about one year old, but it has 1300 hours on the lamp so a replacement would be needed.