How much is it and how does it compare to the Sim2 HT5000?

At this point they are talking about an HD6k probably. Like 60k. Also repackaged as a Runco vx-44 for like 100k.

But skip that sucker and wait for the new DCI Christie 2000-m, I would. Same ballpark.

The hd6k uses a cermax lamp, not a real explosive d-cinema one;).

The big lamps are more stable, as well as generally brighter.

A digital cinema projector has the TIp7 color autocalibration program that is world reference for precision. Generally it has better lenses to. In the case of the 2000-m you have an Intelligent Lens System thta changes aspect ratio with zoom,shift and refocus.

This is the wave of the future. They are planning a large suite of lenses designed to accomodate many throws. Although contractually these manufacturers cannot implement aperture plates as there are strictest License restrictions to maintain the contrast at 2k-1 there are 3 cumulative ways of modifying these projectors to at least 4k-1 maybe more. I know of a venue that will even extend the warranty with this mods.

For someone that cannot accomodate the Barco SuperKontrast for size, heat, noise, or electrical power the modded Christie 2000-m (working title the FarbenMeister) may work. Too early to tell though, out in August.

The hd6k uses a cermax lamp, not a real explosive d-cinema one;).

The big lamps are more stable, as well as generally brighter.

That's just not true. The Barco DP-2000 shows much less lumens by watt than the HD6K.

Also, the Barco does exhibit some flickering, while (despite your dire warnings), I never had any flickering with the HD6K

A digital cinema projector has the TIp7 color autocalibration program that is world reference for precision.

Wolfgang compared the HD6K and the Barco, and stated that the colors were pretty the same.

The DP-2000 has better ANSI CR, and is globally a better projector, but no need to overstate and tell things that are just not true.

Wolfgang is not God he is a supremely resorceful videophile and has compared a chrisitie hd6k and a Barco2000 head to head. Yet there are variables to everycomparison. My DLP engineering friends and many others will tell you that if you have the chance to get into a TIP7 digital cinema color it's better. I find it more accurate too.

Don't yell blasphemy but remember that Wolfgang has to be politically correct to both Christie and Barco. There is not way that using a PR-650 set to 5nm to shoot the colors (or better) the Christie will have as accurate color as the Barco. What color analyzer did he use? That is an important point.

Nitpicking but I take exception how apparently Wolfgang is using his Barco in deep color mode for rec 709 content. It's his projector and he can do what he wants but expansion of rec 709 into dci gamut "Deep color mode" on this projector should be done on 10-12 bit dual dvi using the Barco Scaler (if any as I have not tried that yet) and I still have my doubts that it may still exxagerate hues in different chroma directions on dual dvi (Like on the James Bond Images).

Rec709 should be watched at rec 709 in the barco calibrated at the 5nm setting with the pr-650 or the minolta. Otherwise I say all bets are off and we are comparing aplles to oranges.

There was no such flickering in the Helene Barco playing hd content, perhaps a 3-D setting triggered such flickering, who knows?

An important issue why the Barco and the Christie 2000-m are THE ONLY PORJECTORS TO CONSIDER moving forward is the servo lens system. That and the color (with the above described method) give it a huge ANSI/MTF lead. Also my modification yielded 860 ansi contrast which is substantially more than what a stock Barco . With the SuperKontrast MkII mods suite I fully expoect the ansi cr. to reach 900.

i have a direct contact with the developer of the osram lamps that are used at
the dp 1500 and dp 2000 and i talk with that guy about the flicker.

as you have just the 1600 watt lamp and i have the 4000 watt lampe there is a
big difference because the more watt the lamp have the more flicker you will have
and see.

also he confirm that all the lamps have flicker in the first 100 houres more than later
also the 1600 watt version.
if you not see it fine.
at a runnig movie its also very hard to see but in stills in 3d that is a other story.
the 144hz that i runn the unit for 3d may increase it as well.

the ceramax lamps have also flicker in the first 100 hours like my 4000 w lamp have now
but its very likely i have to live with the flicker the 4000 watt lamp have as
will not lose all the flicker.
but i will see it its gets better at arround 100 hours and will report about it at my thread.

yes d65 should be used at 709 to be right but i like it to go at cinema color
and use lees color saturation to compensate it a bit.

when the service was there i think they use a minolta to calibrate the pr.

but agian as i have post already

HOW I RUNN MY PR AT THE MOMENT IS MY TASTE AND I KNOW ITS NOT RIGHT WHEN SPECS IS the TARGET BUT I LIKE IT THAT WAY!

HOW I RUNN MY PR AT THE MOMENT IS MY TASTE AND I KNOW ITS NOT RIGHT WHEN SPECS IS the TARGET BUT I LIKE IT THAT WAY!

BRAVO!!!!!!! :)

I have to go to work, but would like to post more on this comment later.

I will do it in your thread as to not go OT in this one.

Cliff

Peter, I think you are missing the most important point. What the projected image looks like is important. A 5 nm resolution PR is very important academically but is not a difference that is perceptable.

I find it interesting that when Ken Whitcomb says he measured a DLP with perfect 601 and 709 primaries you called them his "little numbers" but when it supports your position you mention the PR 650.

Art

HOW I RUNN MY PR AT THE MOMENT IS MY TASTE AND I KNOW ITS NOT RIGHT WHEN SPECS IS the TARGET BUT I LIKE IT THAT WAY!

Did you not read my statement:

It's his projector and he can do what he wants but expansion of rec 709 into dci gamut "Deep color mode" on this projector should be done on 10-12 bit dual dvi using the Barco Scaler

I still say that using the barco scaler with gamut expansion dual dvi in 12 bit video would be a better way to watch in 709>p7 color.

Cheerio.

Peter, I think you are missing the most important point. What the projected image looks like is important. A 5 nm resolution PR is very important academically but is not a difference that is perceptable.

I find it interesting that when Ken Whitcomb says he measured a DLP with perfect 601 and 709 primaries you called them his "little numbers" but when it supports your position you mention the PR 650.

Art

That little unnotable single chip projector samsung of dubious MTF does not come up to the knees of a DCI projector, so to imply "that is the case" IS VERY VERY WRONG.

For those that are listening THE BARCO WHEN COLOR SHOT with a PR 650 or Minolta(goes down to 2nm) set at 5nm WILL NOT EXHIBIT HARDLY ANY VARIANCES AND INCONSISTENCIES in REC 709. To me that is reference d65 with which to measure everything else.

i have a direct contact with the developer of the osram lamps that are used at
the dp 1500 and dp 2000 and i talk with that guy about the flicker.

as you have just the 1600 watt lamp and i have the 4000 watt lampe there is a
big difference because the more watt the lamp have the more flicker you will have
and see.

also he confirm that all the lamps have flicker in the first 100 houres more than later
also the 1600 watt version.
if you not see it fine.
at a runnig movie its also very hard to see but in stills in 3d that is a other story.
the 144hz that i runn the unit for 3d may increase it as well.

the ceramax lamps have also flicker in the first 100 hours like my 4000 w lamp have now
but its very likely i have to live with the flicker the 4000 watt lamp have as
will not lose all the flicker.
but i will see it its gets better at arround 100 hours and will report about it at my thread.




How about USHIO? I think that is what we have down here.

That little unnotable single chip projector samsung of dubious MTF does not come up to the knees of a DCI projector, so to imply "that is the case" IS VERY VERY WRONG.

For those that are listening THE BARCO WHEN COLOR SHOT with a PR 650 or Minolta(goes down to 2nm) set at 5nm WILL NOT EXHIBIT HARDLY ANY VARIANCES AND INCONSISTENCIES in REC 709. To me that is reference d65 with which to measure everything else.

All one needs to contradict a pronouncement that has little or no basis is a single proven exception. Your statement that UHP DLP can not produce perfect primaries was refuted with simple measured values (facts we call them). Whether you feel that the Samsungs are little or unnotable is immaterial ,it proved your comment to be simply incorrect.

Art

All one needs to contradict a pronouncement that has little or no basis is a single proven exception. Your statement that UHP DLP can not produce perfect primaries was refuted with simple measured values (facts we call them). Whether you feel that the Samsungs are little or unnotable is immaterial ,it proved your comment to be simply incorrect.

Art

Incorrect no, incomplete (missed a 1)

Okay excuse me that I DO NOT CONSIDER 1 CHIP DLP a valid proposition, so Joe Kane spent 6 years trying to get that IRRELEVANT contraption to produce rec 709 ... There is a saying in spanish, Aunque la mona se vista de seda mona se queda. Even when the monkey dresses in silk at the end of the day she is still a monkey.

You simply cannot compare a low level projector to a state of the art one, even if it conveniently proves your point. I was clearly taking about 3 chip.
In the same way I have no beef with LCOS in general special at the bargain price points.

Your projector should be under 30k, then I would not have a problem with it's shortcomings, like I don't care about the rs-2 shortcomings it is a steal at that price, and I use it in master bedrooms, and skiing lodges.

Quite frankly id have a stock rs-2 (miami vice colors and all) over the shortcomings of all the current uhp 3 dlp, as passable as the Titan reference and the cx31080 are.

I am not here to debate semantics, fool is the one that designs a system or an image purely by numbers. Kane's heel. I know what my level of expertise is in gauging pictures, therefore my reality is my reality and that of my patrons and friends.

At the present time NO ONE HAS PUT a best foot forward to what I am doing to DCI porojectors ;Wolfgang has set a standard in size that is truly remakable, as I am measuring walls here and probably could not exceed 16.5' of width, that being huge I cannot imagine 21 feet, it is truly kollossal. But when it comes to improving the already superb quality of the best cinema projector the SUPERKONTRAST MkI is the reference, soon to be left behind in the dust by the MKII. The original Superkontrast had 1 contrast enhancement mod and a special gamma LUT for a total of 2 enhancements. The MKII has a total of 4 enhancements uisng techniques from different dlp engineers here and in Europe.

So kindly stop trying to impose your approach, cause I ain't looking back. Before you retort with the extra 1,000 to 1 sequential that your projector has over the IRON CLAD PROMISED for the MKII, we have to investigate if/how uniformity was compromised in clamping down the HT5000, as the more I look at these things chances are that delta apertures are in your projector. .98 DCI has abandoned the use of delta due to it's high cost in uniformity. .98 apertures are O shaped. Uniformity is important because reality has excellent uniformity.

Back to your accusation of spewing false statements.

In my reality what you guys have accomplished that you so bombastically promote across forums is nothing but DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOUR. As I wrote to a 3dlp manufacturer the other day. Both the culprits in the consumer end and the manufacturing end need to cease and desist in these bleeding edge crippling practices. Anyone that can afford a 75k projector can afford a 115K projector when the end product is like that of a 300K projector, overwhelmingly superior and universal. Another very promising projector is the upcoming Christie which hacked with warranty could be 66K. No one knows for sure what that integrator rod looks like, yet.

Incorrect no, incomplete (missed a 1)

Okay excuse me that I DO NOT CONSIDER 1 CHIP DLP a valid proposition, so Joe Kane spent 6 years trying to get that IRRELEVANT contraption to produce rec 709 ... There is a saying in spanish, Aunque la mona se vista de seda mona se queda. Even when the monkey dresses in silk at the end of the day she is still a monkey.

You simply cannot compare a low level projector to a state of the art one, even if it conveniently proves your point. I was clearly taking about 3 chip.
In the same way I have no beef with LCOS in general special at the bargain price points.

Your projector should be under 30k, then I would not have a problem with it's shortcomings, like I don't care about the rs-2 shortcomings it is a steal at that price, and I use it in master bedrooms, and skiing lodges.

Quite frankly id have a stock rs-2 (miami vice colors and all) over the shortcomings of all the current uhp 3 dlp, as passable as the Titan reference and the cx31080 are.

I am not here to debate semantics, fool is the one that designs a system or an image purely by numbers. Kane's heel. I know what my level of expertise is in gauging pictures, therefore my reality is my reality and that of my patrons and friends.

At the present time NO ONE HAS PUT a best foot forward to what I am doing to DCI porojectors ;Wolfgang has set a standard in size that is truly remakable, as I am measuring walls here and probably could not exceed 16.5' of width, that being huge I cannot imagine 21 feet, it is truly kollossal. But when it comes to improving the already superb quality of the best cinema projector the SUPERKONTRAST MkI is the reference, soon to be left behind in the dust by the MKII.

So kindly stop trying to impose your approach, cause I ain't looking back. Before you retort with the extra 1,000 to 1 sequential that your projector has, we have to investigate if/how uniformity was compromised in clamping down the HT5000, as the more I look at these things chances are that delta apertures are in your projector. .98 DCI has abandoned the use of delta due to it's high cost in uniformity. .98 apertures are O shaped.

Back to your accusation of spewing false statements.

In my reality what you guys have accomplished that you so bombastically promote across forums is nothing but DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOUR. As I wrote to a 3dlp manufacturer the other day. Both the culprits in the consumer end and the manufacturing end need to cease and desist in these bleeding edge crippling practices. Anyone that can afford a 75k projecotr can afford a 115K projector when the end product is overwhelmingly superior and universal.

Peter,
This is good that you aren't looking back. The HT 5000 is essentially ideal for 601 and 709 with perfect white point. Now I agree if you are talking about displaying DCI content. Until we do I have a DC4 projector that has some great characteristics for my install some of which are better than what you have in Helene.

I'm not attepting to sell you on my approach only just that there is more than one approach.

Art

I'm not attepting to sell you on my approach only just that there is more than one approach.

Art

No , there is only one correct approach as your color (REGARDLESS OF YOUR METRICS) is intolerable, due to the the UHP's ragged response and ever changing unlinearity. UHP 3dlp projectors need to be deiscontinued or relegated to the entry level. But the manufacturers don't care about quality, Next will come LED and theyll really screw any semblance of daylight there.

Not to mention the ISCO softens the contrast/MTF when you contrast it to the zoom approach.

Also these figures of 6k-1 come I suspect at the expense of white field uniformity, so your advantage needs to be handicapped.

Not to mention the ISCO softens the contrast/MTF when you contrast it to the zoom approach.

Lets not start this one again please.

No , there is only one correct approach as your color (REGARDLESS OF YOUR METRICS) is intolerable, due to the the UHP's ragged response and ever changing unlinearity. UHP 3dlp projectors need to be deiscontinued or relegated to the entry level. But the manufacturers don't care about quality, Next will come LED and theyll really screw any semblance of daylight there.

Not to mention the ISCO softens the contrast/MTF when you contrast it to the zoom approach.

Also these figures of 6k-1 come I suspect at the expense of white field uniformity, so your advantage needs to be handicapped.

Sorry your wrong,you have introduced compromises which you refuse to see. You know it ,I believe, or else you are delusional.

You make repeated unsubstantiated claims except for your pronouncements, I back mine with data and then you change the subject. I back my contrast measurements and color space meaurements.I used three different techniques for the contrast number an I actually chose the lowest one ! You just say your way is the best and everyone should see it just because you say so.

I have a clean repeatedly measured FF CR in excess of 6000:1. I've seen zooming, it tosses 500,000 pixels ,it looks coarse at a viewing distances which should be acceptable (now I'm not the only one who sees this).

The Barco lamp flicker issue which you said doesn't exist appears to indeed exist.

You could improve your credibilty by saying these are the advantages of my set up in this install but you can't for some reason.

Art

I have a clean repeatedly measured FF CR in excess of 6000:1. I've seen zooming, it tosses 500,000 pixels ,it looks coarse at a viewing distances which should be acceptable (now I'm not the only one who sees this).

In your projector I believe you, in Helene, no.

The Barco lamp flicker issue which you said doesn't exist appears to indeed exist.

The only flickering I saw is right after the one board was swapped the projector was hickuping and there was flckering (so I have seen it for 30 seconds), a fressh reboot took care of it, but that was software.

I swear there is no flickering going on now .


You could improve your credibilty by saying these are the advantages of my set up in this install but you can't for some reason.

My credibility is none of your business or anyones. I know you enjoy burning me at the stake with it. Quite frankly it is complimentary.

Thanks

Sorry your wrong,you have introduced compromises which you refuse to see. You know it ,I believe, or else you are delusional.

You make repeated unsubstantiated claims except for your pronouncements, I back mine with data and then you change the subject. I back my contrast measurements and color space meaurements.I used three different techniques for the contrast number an I actually chose the lowest one ! You just say your way is the best and everyone should see it just because you say so.

I have a clean repeatedly measured FF CR in excess of 6000:1. I've seen zooming, it tosses 500,000 pixels ,it looks coarse at a viewing distances which should be acceptable (now I'm not the only one who sees this).

The Barco lamp flicker issue which you said doesn't exist appears to indeed exist.

You could improve your credibilty by saying these are the advantages of my set up in this install but you can't for some reason.

Art

Art,

If I may interject, DLP is extremely sharp as it is. Probably the sharpest of all home theater front projection technology. With my good vision (20/15) pixelation and artifacts are VERY easy to see, even at 1.5 screen width.

Using an anamorphic lens in my opinion is the best way to have a much more immersive and enjoyable experience without fatigue from the above negatives. Especially considering that your not even using your whole panel resolution when doing 2:35 with the "zoom" method hence making the above negatives EVEN WORSE.

Seeing your setup with the Anamorphic Lens in place is highly superior than seeing it without. It "completes" the experience. :)

Cliff

I respectfully have compared both approaches on a dci sized chip and the opposite is true. We are in the DCI forum you know?

Yes, I am extremely aware of where I'm posting right now.

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/super9.jpg

Cliff

My credibility is none of your business or anyones. I know you enjoy burning me at the stake with it. Quite frankly it is complimentary.

Thanks

Well that's good I guess because my intent is to foster more logical mutually beneficial interaction. I guess you just don't want that but instead insist on the pontification.



Art

I respectfully have compared both approaches on a dci sized chip and the opposite is true. We are in the DCI forum you know?


With DC4 the opposite is true.

Art

I respectfully have compared both approaches on a dci sized chip and the opposite is true. We are in the DCI forum you know?


With DC4 no doubt the opposite is true.

Art

When did the ht 5000 get released with dc4? Just curious cause when it first cam out I reclled it being a 3.

The HT 5000 got the DC3+ chip (the first I believe) later TI designated the DC3+ the DC4.

Art

The HT 5000 got the DC3+ chip (the first I believe) later TI designated the DC3+ the DC4.

Art

Good grace and a gentlemanly gratitude has meant I waited till you dropped that one first.:D

Good grace and a gentlemanly gratitude


???