I am just now looking into OTA.(for HD locals)
I have D* HD service, but lately my locals are just aweful.
I see D* offers some sort of OTA, but I don't get why a sat. company would offer OTA.

Four out of the five channels I want to get hopefully are all the same exact milage away from me in the same exact direction.(41.3 miles away and 172degrees)
The fifth is 55.8 miles away and 257 degrees.
If this means I would need a rotator to get the fifth, I would have to contemplate if that channel would be worth it, as I do not know prices of rotators.

Indoor would be ideal, no matter looks.
Roof mounted is o.k., smaller the better, but want great reception so I will go as big as needed.
And ofcourse, the less expensive the better. :)

I apologize.
CBS, ABC and NBC are all VHF.(and all same distance and direction)
CW and FOX are UHF.(FOX is same as above, CW is the odd one)

So does that mean that I can't get FOX or CW after Feb. 09?

Please post your zip code so we can provide more accurate advice. I think I have seen you post in the Philadelphia thread, so are you looking to get the Philly stations? If so, you will need a full range VHF and UHF antenna to get WPVI-DT ABC 6 when it switches from UHF 64 to VHF 6 next February. WTXF-DT Fox 29 is broadcasting on UHF 42, but with a antenna mounted on the side of the tower some 60 meters below the analog 29 antenna.

If this means I would need a rotator to get the fifth, I would have to contemplate if that channel would be worth it, as I do not know prices of rotators.

Consider a separate antenna for CW and add it to the main antenna using a Jointenna.

Please post your zip code so we can provide more accurate advice. I think I have seen you post in the Philadelphia thread, so are you looking to get the Philly stations? If so, you will need a full range VHF and UHF antenna to get WPVI-DT ABC 6 when it switches from UHF 64 to VHF 6 next February. WTXF-DT Fox 29 is broadcasting on UHF 42, but with a antenna mounted on the side of the tower some 60 meters below the analog 29 antenna.

I'm actually in Allentown, but I am looking to get the Philly stations.(lehigh valley thread is not frequented so I came here for help, especially since I'm going after Philly signals.
18104

Consider a separate antenna for CW and add it to the main antenna using a Jointenna.

I'm guessing a 'Jointenna' is exactly what it sounds like.
I'm trying to keep cost down as I will still be paying a premium for the 'everything' package from D*.
So a second antenna and a jointenna "might" raise the cost too high.
But I don't know the prices, so I will have to research.

I'm guessing a 'Jointenna' is exactly what it sounds like.
I'm trying to keep cost down as I will still be paying a premium for the 'everything' package from D*.
So a second antenna and a jointenna "might" raise the cost too high.
But I don't know the prices, so I will have to research.

In round numbers a second antenna and a Jointenna cost the same as a rotor. From a a user perspective a Jointenna is superior to a rotor.

Thank you, so its' basically wether or not CW is worth the extra cost for extra gear.
I will most likely just go for the four in the same spot with a single antenna.

I am still confused on which type to get.
I thought VHF was going to be extinct after Feb. 09?(which would me an I should get a UHF antenna)
I don't have 'any' antenna stores anywhere near me to find out what works best in my area....so your guys help is very important to me.(especially since my knowledge base of OTA is very limited)

I am still confused on which type to get.
I thought VHF was going to be extinct after Feb. 09?(which would me an I should get a UHF antenna)
I don't have 'any' antenna stores anywhere near me to find out what works best in my area....so your guys help is very important to me.

Nope--only analog and channels 52+ are going to be extinct. Most markets will have high-VHF (7-13) digital stations and a few will have low-VHF digital stations. You need to check a transition report for your area to properly determine what you'll need next year. Philly will have a channel 6 station, IIRC.

http://www.rabbitears.info/ has transition reports.

Transition report, o.k., I'll check out your link now.
This is confusing at first and gets more confusing.
can't wait until I understand it all....wish I had a local friend or business to help too.

There is a CW station in Philadelphia (WPSG); if you can get that one you can avoid dealing with a rotator or Jointenna.

For now, all the Philadelphia digitals can be received with a UHF antenna. However, Philly will have one VHF-Lo (WPVI, ABC) and one VHF-hi (WHYY, PBS), so if you want all the Philly channels you'll need a combo antenna or multiple antennas.

With the hilly terrain in the Allentown area, your needs will depend a lot on your exact location. If you're on a hill, you may get Philly with a relatively modest antenna. If you're in a valley, you may not be able to get Philly at all. Height will be your friend here. If you get a combo antenna, pay attention to UHF gain more than VHF gain; Channel 6 will be your strongest Philly station post-transition, and you didn't express interest in WHYY.

Entering your exact address at http://www.tvfool.com will give you that site's idea of your reception possibilities.

I'm actually in Allentown, but I am looking to get the Philly stations.(lehigh valley thread is not frequented so I came here for help, especially since I'm going after Philly signals. 18104
Do you live on a hill or higher elevation in Allentown? There is a major ridge line between Allentown and the Philadelphia TV broadcast towers. Do any of your neighbors get the Philly stations OTA - analog or digital? Regardless, you should enter your exact address and estimated height of the antenna on the roof into www.tvfool.com to see what it reports for the Philly digital stations. If the estimated Rx(dBm) numbers are better than -105 to -110, then you have a shot with a rooftop antenna.

But for the moment, I will ignore that and just look up the major Philly stations and their digital channels. Antennaweb is not showing them even with 3000' for the antenna height for the zip.

All the major Philly stations are clustered at ~ 43 miles, 158 degrees azimuth:
KYW-DT CBS 3: DT 26 (2008 and 2009)
WPVI-DT ABC 6: DT 64 (2008), DT 6 (2009)
WCAU-DT NBC 10: DT 67 (2008), DT 34 (2009)
WHYY-DT PBS 12: DT 50 (2008 low power), DT 12 (2009)
WPHL-DT MyN 17: DT 54 (2008), DT 17 (2009)
WTXF-DT Fox 29: DT 42 (2008 with sidemounted antenna, new antenna on top of tower in 2009 for UHF 42 with larger coverage area)
WPSG-DT CW 57: DT 32 (2008, 2009)
WPPX-DT ion 61: DT 31 (2008 & 2009) (added because Ion will be going HD)

The other station I guess you were asking about is WLYH-DT CW 15 at 55 miles & 243 degrees in Lancaster, correct?

All of the Philly stations are currently on UHF, but three of them are out of core high UHF channels which are more likely to be blocked by the high ridge line (mountain range really) to the south of you. Don't expect to get WHYY-DT PBS 12 until after February 17, 2009 regardless of what antenna you put up as the station is stuck at reduced power on UHF 50 until then. But the key to antenna selection is WPVI-DT ABC 6 which will be switching to low VHF 6 next February. If you want to get that station next year, you will need a full range VHF/UHF antenna as opposed to more compact upper VHF (7 to 13) and UHF antenna.

Before we can make an antenna recommendation, it would help if you could paste your tvfool.com report for your exact address and roof height.

There is a CW station in Philadelphia (WPSG); if you can get that one you can avoid dealing with a rotator or Jointenna.

For now, all the Philadelphia digitals can be received with a UHF antenna. However, Philly will have one VHF-Lo (WPVI, ABC) and one VHF-hi (WHYY, PBS), so if you want all the Philly channels you'll need a combo antenna or multiple antennas.

With the hilly terrain in the Allentown area, your needs will depend a lot on your exact location. If you're on a hill, you may get Philly with a relatively modest antenna. If you're in a valley, you may not be able to get Philly at all. Height will be your friend here. If you get a combo antenna, pay attention to UHF gain more than VHF gain; Channel 6 will be your strongest Philly station post-transition, and you didn't express interest in WHYY.

Entering your exact address at http://www.tvfool.com will give you that site's idea of your reception possibilities.


I did do that, should I post my results?
As far as my specific location....I don't think I'm either. Definitely not on a hill but not in the valley either.
West End of Allentown just north of Tilghman St.
I do not need PBS, CW would be nice.

Do you live on a hill or higher elevation in Allentown? There is a major ridge line between Allentown and the Philadelphia TV broadcast towers. Do any of your neighbors get the Philly stations OTA - analog or digital? Regardless, you should enter your exact address and estimated height of the antenna on the roof into www.tvfool.com to see what it reports for the Philly digital stations. If the estimated Rx(dBm) numbers are better than -105 to -110, then you have a shot with a rooftop antenna.

But for the moment, I will ignore that and just look up the major Philly stations and their digital channels. Antennaweb is not showing them even with 3000' for the antenna height for the zip.

All the major Philly stations are clustered at ~ 43 miles, 158 degrees azimuth:
KYW-DT CBS 3: DT 26 (2008 and 2009)
WPVI-DT ABC 6: DT 64 (2008), DT 6 (2009)
WCAU-DT NBC 10: DT 67 (2008), DT 34 (2009)
WHYY-DT PBS 12: DT 50 (2008 low power), DT 12 (2009)
WPHL-DT MyN 17: DT 54 (2008), DT 17 (2009)
WTXF-DT Fox 29: DT 42 (2008 with sidemounted antenna, new antenna on top of tower in 2009 for UHF 42 with larger coverage area)
WPSG-DT CW 57: DT 32 (2008, 2009)
WPPX-DT ion 61: DT 31 (2008 & 2009) (added because Ion will be going HD)

The other station I guess you were asking about is WLYH-DT CW 15 at 55 miles & 243 degrees in Lancaster, correct?

All of the Philly stations are currently on UHF, but three of them are out of core high UHF channels which are more likely to be blocked by the high ridge line (mountain range really) to the south of you. Don't expect to get WHYY-DT PBS 12 until after February 17, 2009 regardless of what antenna you put up as the station is stuck at reduced power on UHF 50 until then. But the key to antenna selection is WPVI-DT ABC 6 which will be switching to low VHF 6 next February. If you want to get that station next year, you will need a full range VHF/UHF antenna as opposed to more compact upper VHF (7 to 13) and UHF antenna.

Before we can make an antenna recommendation, it would help if you could paste your tvfool.com report for your exact address and roof height.

25' roof.
The Lancaster location is the one I saw for CW.

Using 25' as height, which is about right, my roof is ~25' above ground level.(I also have an attic if that helps)
No matter what I try I can't copy and paste, so here is the link to the results page for TVfool.com:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

Using 25' as height, which is about right, my roof is ~25' above ground level.(I also have an attic if that helps)
No matter what I try I can't copy and paste, so here is the link to the results page for TVfool.com:
You need to save the image file using the "save image" link and then upload the image. Do your tvfool.com results look like this? If so, a rooftop VHF/UHF antenna should work. The attic might work also depending on the orientation of your roof and the construction materials used in the house. Several ways to go: 1) good quality long range VHF/UHF antenna such as the Winegard HD7084P; or 2) a dedicated VHF antenna (Winegard HD5030?) and a AntennasDirect 91-XG for UHF.

Very close, just a tad different in the direction and signal strength.
When I save the results I cannot open it after. I also can't open it from the page itself...I'm getting a "Cannot open this file" message.
I also cannot open it with Photobucket off my desktop where I saved it to.

I will look into the antennas you reccomended.

If ABC and PBS are chaning to DT 6 & 12... that means you would need a VHF antenna in 2009 for that channels correct?

WPVI-DT ABC 6: DT 64 (2008), DT 6 (2009)
WHYY-DT PBS 12: DT 50 (2008 low power), DT 12 (2009)

I hope you aren't asking me as I'm still confused and haven't had time to research.

I am very confused. In the Allentown area, do you not get the D* locals from Philadelphia? If so, you can receive them in HD with the proper dish and box. If not, you might try "moving" to a friend's address in Philly. The spot beam is very likely big enough so that you would get the Philadelphia locals in HD.
I have never had any difficulty getting HD locals over the air, but a) have never faced mountainous terrain, and b) never had to deal with two VHF channels. Since D* has gone to MPEG4 for locals, the quality is comparable to OTA. I think you would be ahead of the game if you can go through D*.
Good luck.