We need a "new" SED technology thread or the old one unlocked.

The last news we heard (1/8/2008) was that Canon is moving forward with SED displays. Since then we haven't heard whether or not they have officially given up on SED. I think we need to follow Canon's progress or lack thereof on SED.

I suggest to start a new SED thread when there is some new SED news.

This one should be locked.

Which do you think would be better? A LED BL lcd or a SED tv? Dolby is supposed to have their HDR tech in upcoming lcds. Maybe by the end of this year. I have a samsung dlp that I brought 3 1/2 years ago, but I would love to get either one of these sets. Stupid Nano Prop. Why did they have to go and mess everything up by suing Canon?! lol.

"Using the SED technology, each pixel in the display is provided with the SCE for a thin display with high quality using the same light emission principle used in CRTs. With the same construction as a CRT, the SED is thus able to provide high efficiency, long life, short afterglow and wide color reproduction regions.

Since SEDs apply the same light emission theory as CRTs' they provide dynamic color expression, a sharp picture, and faster videoresponse than LCDs and plasma display panels (PDPs). As SEDs do not require electronic beam deflection, making possible screens of more than 40" in size that are only several centimeters thick. In addition, SEDs convert electrical power energy into light with a higher emission efficiency than other display types, resulting in power cosumption that is two-thirds that of PDPs, and also surpasses CRTs and LCDs."

SED is more than just superior black levels. I certainly hope Canon ultimately delivers on SED.

Which do you think would be better? A LED BL lcd or a SED tv? Dolby is supposed to have their HDR tech in upcoming lcds. Maybe by the end of this year. I have a samsung dlp that I brought 3 1/2 years ago, but I would love to get either one of these sets. Stupid Nano Prop. Why did they have to go and mess everything up by suing Canon?! lol.

SED.

As long as Vizio is around, SED will never get off the ground, since as you say Vizio is already putting Pioneer and Panasonic out of business :D

Nano Prop. Who are those people? Who?

I hope I spelled it right. Nano Propieratary. They were doing a joint venture with Canon. Canon in turn cut a deal with Toshiba, so Nano didn't like that much and sued them. I think the main reason they sued Canon was because they shared a patented nano carbon tube tech with Toshiba. So Canon bought out Toshiba's stake but Nano still tried to sue them for something that I can't remember at this time. It seems to me that Canon is giving Nano a big middle finger, because it seems they're still going ahead with SED. I guess they are not using those patented Nano Carbon Tubes or whatever the hell it was. I really really hope this tv eventually comes out. I was so amped up about it when I first read about it.

In addition, SEDs convert electrical power energy into light with a higher emission efficiency than other display types, resulting in power cosumption that is two-thirds that of PDPs, and also surpasses CRTs and LCDs."

SED is more than just superior black levels. I certainly hope Canon ultimately delivers on SED.SED is ~4-6 lm/W and the one prototype has a power consumption of ~100watts. By next year PDP will equal these two performance parameters for a given size :). TTM is a powerfull ally in the display business. It is certainly not good to be on the short end of TTM this day and age.

Cheers

SED is a kind of FED and while there's been very little news about SED there has been some news about FED.

SED is a kind of FED and while there's been very little news about SED there has been some news about FED.Last I heard about FED was that they achieved 20lm/w efficiency. No telling what kind of capacity though (single open pixel, actual pixel, or actual full display)

Last I heard about FED was that they achieved 20lm/w efficiency. No telling what kind of capacity though (single open pixel, actual pixel, or actual full display)

First of all, to AUD 55, you never give up and I guess that is a good thing.

Second, someone is still developing FED tech? I will admit that I haven't spent allot of time on the Forum in the past 8 months, but that anyone had anything but a passing interest in FED is probably good news. I will agree with AUD 55 that there does need to be some competing new tech to pull PDP and LCD down a little. OLED I don't think will do it.

Second, someone is still developing FED tech?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1020677

SED is ~4-6 lm/W and the one prototype has a power consumption of ~100watts. By next year PDP will equal these two performance parameters for a given size :). TTM is a powerfull ally in the display business. It is certainly not good to be on the short end of TTM this day and age.

Cheers

What is that TTM???

Hey guys, go to "sed-tv-reviews.com and check out a little bit of info. Looks like Canon is not abandoning SED yet.

Hey guys, go to "sed-tv-reviews.com and check out a little bit of info. Looks like Canon is not abandoning SED yet.

That's right Canon is moving forward. Some folks here would have us believe otherwise.

A good commentary that I picked up from the site on Plasma v. SED.

In plasma screens the phosphors are excited by ultra-violet light emitted by an electrical discharge passing through ionised gas - think of each sub-pixel as being like a tiny flurorescent tube. With SED the phosphors are excited by multiple electron beams, one per sub-pixel.

There are two very important differences. The less significant one is that it is impossible to switch a plasma pixel completely off; there is always some current leakage, which makes the pixel still glow a little even when it is supposed to be perfectly black. SED will have far darker blacks.

The much more important difference is that plasma pixels have only two states: full on, and full off, with nothing in between. In order to simulate a pixel having variable brightness the pixel is actually flashed on and off multiple times during each frame. A “bright” pixel is switched on most of the time, while a darker one is on for a smaller fraction of the frame

I think we need to follow Canon's progress or lack thereof on SED.

There's nothing to follow. Yeah, Canon briefly mentioned that they still wanted to go forward back in like January. Since then, there has been absolutely no news whatsoever. Seriously, how long do you expect to keep this thread going by dredging up tidbits from 2006, or are you hoping that Canon will break their silence any day now? Don't hold your breath.

A good commentary that I picked up from the site on Plasma v. SED.

In plasma screens the phosphors are excited by ultra-violet light emitted by an electrical discharge passing through ionised gas - think of each sub-pixel as being like a tiny flurorescent tube. With SED the phosphors are excited by multiple electron beams, one per sub-pixel.

There are two very important differences. The less significant one is that it is impossible to switch a plasma pixel completely off; there is always some current leakage, which makes the pixel still glow a little even when it is supposed to be perfectly black. SED will have far darker blacks.

The much more important difference is that plasma pixels have only two states: full on, and full off, with nothing in between. In order to simulate a pixel having variable brightness the pixel is actually flashed on and off multiple times during each frame. A “bright” pixel is switched on most of the time, while a darker one is on for a smaller fraction of the frame

Thats not entirely true. Pioneer has already shown us their absolute black plasma, so SED's blacks will be equal at best.

Thats not entirely true. Pioneer has already shown us their absolute black plasma, so SED's blacks will be equal at best.
It will beat SED as it is capable of ZERO idle luminance. SED doesn't currently have zero idle luminance.

The "commentary" Auditor55 posted has some very out-dated information in it.

It will beat SED as it is capable of ZERO idle luminance. SED doesn't currently have zero idle luminance.

The "commentary" Auditor55 posted has some very out-dated information in it.


Hi,

Does CRT direct view have 'zero idle luminance'?

Will KURO ever match crt's motion and viewing angles?

FED wouldn't practically have any dead pixels, right? That is something!

Is there a reason why a "NEW" SED technology thread was started when NOTHING new has been said? Speculation that Canon may or may not have given up on SED is not reason to clog the forum with yet another useless thread.

Hi,

Does CRT direct view have 'zero idle luminance'? No they don't. Plus CRTs float blacks.

Will KURO ever match crt's motion and viewing angles?Viewing angles????? Motion can and will be improved.

FED wouldn't practically have any dead pixels, right? That is something!Might have a bad tube ;)

Is there a reason why a "NEW" SED technology thread was started when NOTHING new has been said? Speculation that Canon may or may not have given up on SED is not reason to clog the forum with yet another useless thread.

Agreed. They no longer even demonstrate prototype models at any of the shows. Until they start showing something new, then this is just a vanity thread by a certain attention craving, you know who.:)

http://displaydaily.com/2008/05/23/fed-technology-is-still-alive-%e2%80%93-maybe/

[QUOTE=Auditor55;13902861]"

Since SEDs apply the same light emission theory as CRTs' they provide dynamic color expression, a sharp picture, and faster videoresponse than LCDs and plasma display panels (PDPs). As SEDs do not require electronic beam deflection, making possible screens of more than 40" in size that are only several centimeters thick. In addition, SEDs convert electrical power energy into light with a higher emission efficiency than other display types, resulting in power cosumption that is two-thirds that of PDPs, and also surpasses CRTs and LCDs."
QUOTE]

To expand upon Auditor - you may know SED by it's more commonly known name "vaporware" - a software or hardware product that is announced well in advance of its release but never seems to materialize. Quoting Wikipedia "The term implies unwarranted optimism, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility."

Lets start a thread on holodecks - at least that's a fantasy I can get excited about.

No they don't. Plus CRTs float blacks.

Viewing angles????? Motion can and will be improved.

Might have a bad tube ;)


Thanks D-Nice! 2009 KURO is going to be something beautiful.

Any chance of a 65 inch or higher kuro next year (glass made by Panasonic)?

Thanks D-Nice! 2009 KURO is going to be something beautiful.

Any chance of a 65 inch or higher kuro next year (glass made by Panasonic)?

I think the word was that Pioneer's screen sizes will be changed next year. Probably 58", 65", and possibly larger too :).

A good commentary that I picked up from the site on Plasma v. SED.

In plasma screens the phosphors are excited by ultra-violet light emitted by an electrical discharge passing through ionised gas - think of each sub-pixel as being like a tiny flurorescent tube. With SED the phosphors are excited by multiple electron beams, one per sub-pixel.

There are two very important differences. The less significant one is that it is impossible to switch a plasma pixel completely off; there is always some current leakage, which makes the pixel still glow a little even when it is supposed to be perfectly black. SED will have far darker blacks.

The much more important difference is that plasma pixels have only two states: full on, and full off, with nothing in between. In order to simulate a pixel having variable brightness the pixel is actually flashed on and off multiple times during each frame. A “bright” pixel is switched on most of the time, while a darker one is on for a smaller fraction of the frame

How would they have far deeper blacks? How much deeper can you go than .04 and very soon to be .01?

Remember that this Making TVs thing is a business first. SEDs are over 2 years "late" coming to market. I waited as long as I could and finally upgraded my trusty CRT (albeit at "only" 36" 4/3 and weighin at 235Lbs) to a PDP in Oct '07. Very happy with the 8Gs.

The falling prices of plasmas and LCDs (and improving PQ) with a 55" SED estimated to retail at $10K was the main issue for me (besides the IP issues already mentioned and mfg woes challenging Canon delaying - if ever - the release).

Having said all that though, if an SED came out tomorrow at a reasonable price point pretty sure there are many of us that would take the plunge if the PQ was anything like what has been demonstrated and met the hype on blacks and contrast measures....

This thread is fine if we continue to receive progress reports... I will continue to monitor and see if this ever makes it to market - and if the "threat" of SED pushes Pioneer and others to further develop plasma and/or LCD to better PQ/price performance then we will all benefit....

Hey guys, go to "sed-tv-reviews.com and check out a little bit of info. Looks like Canon is not abandoning SED yet.

Yes and my previous Canon TV sets have been some of the best I have ever seen. :D

A real pot-stirring thread. :rolleyes: Wake me when it's soup.

Remember that this Making TVs thing is a business first. SEDs are over 2 years "late" coming to market. I waited as long as I could and finally upgraded my trusty CRT (albeit at "only" 36" 4/3 and weighin at 235Lbs) to a PDP in Oct '07. Very happy with the 8Gs.

The falling prices of plasmas and LCDs (and improving PQ) with a 55" SED estimated to retail at $10K was the main issue for me (besides the IP issues already mentioned and mfg woes challenging Canon delaying - if ever - the release).

Having said all that though, if an SED came out tomorrow at a reasonable price point pretty sure there are many of us that would take the plunge if the PQ was anything like what has been demonstrated and met the hype on blacks and contrast measures....

This thread is fine if we continue to receive progress reports... I will continue to monitor and see if this ever makes it to market - and if the "threat" of SED pushes Pioneer and others to further develop plasma and/or LCD to better PQ/price performance then we will all benefit....

We do have to continue to monitor any all new SED news and information. Canon, as far as we know, have not given up on SED and to me that's great news. No news at this point is good news.

If SED does make it, it will revolutionize display technology as we know it today, the technology is more advanced than what's currently on the market.

We do have to continue to monitor any all new SED news and information. Canon, as far as we know, have not given up on SED and to me that's great news. No news at this point is good news.

If SED does make it, it will revolutionize display technology as we know it today, the technology is more advanced than what's currently on the market.


Then can we appoint you the guru of SED news and when new and only new information is released you can come in the forum and let us all in on it? Until then, no reason for any posts is there? The Beta system was a great video tape system but failed as do a lot of technologies that may or may not be better than current technologies. :D

We do have to continue to monitor any all new SED news and information. Canon, as far as we know, have not given up on SED and to me that's great news. No news at this point is good news.

If SED does make it, it will revolutionize display technology as we know it today, the technology is more advanced than what's currently on the market.But you always say stuff like "Vizio LCDs are going to put Panasonic and Pioneer out of the Plasma business" so what makes you think the buying public will embrace a technology that's even more advanced than plasma and will likely cost even more to manufacture?

But you always say stuff like "Vizio LCDs are going to put Panasonic and Pioneer out of the Plasma business" so what makes you think the buying public will embrace a technology that's even more advanced than plasma and will likely cost even more to manufacture?

Simply because SED would be new. Plasmas have become a commodity. How can manufacturers like Pioneer and Panasonic justify the high prices for plasmas when the market is now overstaturated with them? That is why Vizio threatening to drive both companies from the market.

Then can we appoint you the guru of SED news and when new and only new information is released you can come in the forum and let us all in on it? Until then, no reason for any posts is there? The Beta system was a great video tape system but failed as do a lot of technologies that may or may not be better than current technologies. :D

I look forward to SED first showing up in the professional world. I expect them to become the new reference technology, replacing CRT, in that segment of the market.

I will keep you posted.:D

I look forward to SED first showing up in the professional world. I expect them to become the new reference technology, replacing CRT, in that segment of the market.

I will keep you posted.:D

Please do, but only when something of relevance happens. It appears this thread was created for no apparent reason. :cool:

If SED does make it, it will revolutionize display technology as we know it today, the technology is more advanced than what's currently on the market.

If I could walk down to my local Best Buy today, and buy a SED display for say, 10% LESS than a Kuro Elite - that would represent a small evolution in display technology - not a revolution.

If and when SED ever does make it to the market (let alone by the time they come to market and sell for a reasonable price), it's likely not even going to do that. In case you hadn't noticed - Plasmas and LCDs get better all the time. OLED is making a start too - there is no way that SED will ever "revolutionize display technology" - just not going to happen.

Welcome to the real world.

Please do, but only when something of relevance happens. It appears this thread was created for no apparent reason. :cool:

It was created to counter the myth that SED is dead.

If I could walk down to my local Best Buy today, and buy a SED display for say, 10% LESS than a Kuro Elite - that would represent a small evolution in display technology - not a revolution.

If and when SED ever does make it to the market (let alone by the time they come to market and sell for a reasonable price), it's likely not even going to do that. In case you hadn't noticed - Plasmas and LCDs get better all the time. OLED is making a start too - there is no way that SED will ever "revolutionize display technology" - just not going to happen.

Welcome to the real world.

If SED comes out, it will revolutionize display technology. Plasma and LCD is not on par with SED technology. Go research it for yourself and you will agree with me.

It will beat SED as it is capable of ZERO idle luminance. SED doesn't currently have zero idle luminance.

The "commentary" Auditor55 posted has some very out-dated information in it.

You're probably right, by the next time we see SED, it would have exceeded what we knew it to be 2 years ago, which is still vastly superior to any display technology. All videophiles will agree, there's more to a display technology than blacks. Deep blacks with superior shadow detail capability, just like CRT, but more advanced.

You're probably right, by the next time we see SED, it would have exceeded what we knew it to be 2 years ago, which is still vastly superior to any display technology. All videophiles will agree, there's more to a display technology than blacks. Deep blacks with superior shadow detail capability, just like CRT, but more advanced.

I think most videophiles will agree that it's a technology that's likely to never make into the mainstream consumer product line. Canon isn't exactly a fixture in the consumer televsion market. It's more likely to be used in their digital cameras and camcorders than an actual TV.

Could you also explain what you mean by the Pioneer being an "intermediate display"? You have used this phrase many times in various threads but have yet to explain what you mean by that. Thanks :)

I think most videophiles will agree that it's a technology that's likely to never make into the mainstream consumer product line. Canon isn't exactly a fixture in the consumer televsion market. It's more likely to be used in their digital cameras and camcorders than an actual TV.

Could you also explain what you mean by the Pioneer being an "intermediate display"? You have used this phrase many times in various threads but have yet to explain what you mean by that. Thanks :)

I think Canon around about this time is doing far better as a company than your beloved Pioneer. So do count a Global Powerhouse like Canon out.

So do count a Global Powerhouse like Canon out.

Hey, good idea. I think I will.

I think Canon around about this time is doing far better as a company than your beloved Pioneer. So do count a Global Powerhouse like Canon out.

My beloved Pioneer? I have no affiliation or love for Pioneer. If they make a product I'm interested in I will check it out, just like I do with other products manufactured by other companies. The fact is, Canon has never been a player in the consumer television market so let me know when they make the first 50" or bigger SED panel for under $2000.00 and is available for sale. Until then, this thread is about as relevant as most of your posts.

I noticed that once again you have failed to answer my question what you mean by Pioneer being an intermediate display. Is it because you have no answer?

It was created to counter the myth that SED is dead.

If that's the case, then it would have been better answered in a thread where someone was actually talking about SED as there was no need for a new thread talking about no news. :rolleyes:

If SED comes out, it will revolutionize display technology. Plasma and LCD is not on par with SED technology. Go research it for yourself and you will agree with me.

I have and I don't. There will be nothing revolutionary about SED beyond what is already being demonstrated by displays soon to be on the market by Plasma, LCD manufacturers and OLED manufacturers.

What can SED do that will revolutionize beyond ECC Pioneers coming in 2009. Plasma will have screens measure in the milimeters, blacks too dark to measure, brights white, accurate colors, over 5000 gradations, and on and on - What will SED do that's so revolutionary and how much will it cost. You need climb back into your Delorean, fire up the flux capaciter and come back to the future.

I'm not saying SED is never going to make it to the market (though if I were a betting man, I'd certainly put money on the fact it will never be a major player) - just that if it does - they won't revolutionize anything - it'll just be another technology sharing space on the shelves.

What can SED do that will revolutionize beyond ECC Pioneers coming in 2009. Plasma will have screens measure in the milimeters, blacks too dark to measure, brights white, accurate colors, over 5000 gradations, and on and on



You wrote 'brights white' - but it doesn't look to be true b/c 2009 pio kuro will not be any brighter, meaning it'll be dim, just like the current one.


Anybody ; what does 5000 gradations mean? Is it shadow detail, or black detail, or grayscale? I'm asking b/c I don't know the difference between them.

SED would humiliate any other display technology for tv watching at home. HUMILIATE. It would make anyone owning an LCD tv look like an idiot. Motion handling is like crt's but it is much better than crt and brighter and can also be milimeters thick w/ perfect viewing angles.

There exists a conspiracy against SED b/c it is too good (amongst other considerations).

I'd like to ask why a new thread had to be started to continue speculating about a technology that hasn't had any NEW news in quite some time. If a moderator sees this, do us a favor and lock this thread.

I'd like to ask why a new thread had to be started to continue speculating about a technology that hasn't had any NEW news in quite some time. If a moderator sees this, do us a favor and lock this thread.

nothing wrong with a thread discussing new technology: it has the advantage of having a single thread dedicated to this topic rather than having it posted in every other thread

So if you are not interested in this topic, kindly move on

Thank you

As has been pointed out in numerous professional reviews, the Kuros pretty much obviate the need for a technology like SED (and those reviewers had only seen the 8g Kuros, not the 9g or 10g). The expense of start-up, the limited screen sizes shown to date etc. etc. are just some of the reasons that SED is DOA.

We do have to continue to monitor any all new SED news and information. Canon, as far as we know, have not given up on SED and to me that's great news. No news at this point is good news.

If SED does make it, it will revolutionize display technology as we know it today, the technology is more advanced than what's currently on the market.

No it's not and that's the reason why investors in this technology are scarce. Time to look around Auditor and see what's out now...it's not 5 years ago.

You're probably right, by the next time we see SED, it would have exceeded what we knew it to be 2 years ago, which is still vastly superior to any display technology. All videophiles will agree, there's more to a display technology than blacks. Deep blacks with superior shadow detail capability, just like CRT, but more advanced.

Auditor, spouting the same old political campaign lines does not make it the truth. I'd suggest you read some of the reviews from the reviewers that have seen both the Kuros and SED. You will see they all say the same thing, there is no need for SED. As I said before, this was based on 8g Kuros, not 9g or 10g. Think about it. ;)

If SED comes out, it will revolutionize display technology. Plasma and LCD is not on par with SED technology. Go research it for yourself and you will agree with me.

Auditor, there's a difference between revolutionizing display technology and revolutionizing display PICTURE QUALITY. This is where you will forever be confused. You can make a given product 25 different ways, but if your way is no better than the other 24, what's the point. But continue, we all know you will. :rolleyes:

There exists a conspiracy against SED b/c it is too good (amongst other considerations).

Ah yes, the same conspiracy that has caused the mysterious deaths of 1,000s of inventors of those 1,000mpg gasoline engines. Boy do some people love conspiracy theories! :D

nothing wrong with a thread discussing new technology

Thank you


You're right, if this subject had never been talked about before and if there was any new and relevant information to discuss. As it is, this post served no purpose and has not generated any more information that hasn't been previosly discussed. It's very obvious what the OP's intent was. It's similar to my grandkids as they sometimes seek attention whether it's good or bad.

:)

remember to attack the post...never the poster..there are plenty of folks interested in SED...and plenty who are not

If you are not interested in SED, please unsubscribe from this thread/ move on please: second request

Thank you

remember to attack the post...never the poster..there are plenty of folks interested in SED...and plenty who are not

If you are not interested in SED, please unsubscribe from this thread/ move on please: second request

Thank you


I'm very much interested in SED and also technologies that might actually come to fruition. Could you point me to a thread where any new information is available?

I'm very much interested in SED and also technologies that might actually come to fruition. Could you point me to a thread where any new information is available?

No..this would be it...but I must ask you to leave this thread unless you want to discuss SED on a technical level

Auditor55: Is SED so great that it could cause some people to have a fetish for it?

OK guys you managed to get it closed for now: I hope you had your fun