lsilvest
05-20-08, 10:19 PM
I wonder if one of you engineer types out there would explain the technological reason for the pillar box side bars used by the local networks when not broadcasting HDTV. I'm speaking only about the OTA broadcasts as I don't subscribe to HD with satellite or cable. CBS and ABC use black on their main DTV channels, but use none on the subchannels. PBS does not use any, but NBC and FOX use those colored bars with printing which I find extremely distracting and irritating. However, FOX doesn't use the pillar box on the Retro subchannel which is all SD. My 42" plasma is 2 1/2 years old and doesn't have a setting that will get rid of the sidebars for NBC and FOX, but does expand automatically to full screen for the black bars. I know some sets can adjust for this and I just got one of the government subsidized set-top boxes for my bedroom CRT that has display settings that will eliminate the side bars (which do show up on a CRT if you use a normal setting).
What I don't understand is that if there is a valid technological reason for the side bars, why is it not consistent throughout. Also, many of the older plasmas and all CRTs are subject to burn-in which is not an issue with black bars, but certainly is with the colored ones. So, why impose this on their viewers?
coyoteaz
05-20-08, 10:52 PM
Bars that are part of the video are used to preserve the aspect ratio when the content doesn't match the delivery mechanism. The HD channels are natively 16:9, while the subchannels are natively 4:3. When they are showing something where the source matches the delivery, the window will be filled. When 4:3 video is shown on the HD channel or 16:9 video is shown on the SD channel, bars are added on the sides or top/bottom respectively to keep the content from being stretched or squished.
Most stations go with black bars, but some feel the need to use colors or worse, branding. That decision is usually made by someone with an MBA or marketing degree, not an engineer.
lsilvest
05-20-08, 11:17 PM
I understand the aspect ratios, but what doesn't jive is that none of the subchannels here use the sidebars, even if the main channel does, and for the most part the picture is very good. Also, most TV's do a good job of adjusting a 4:3 to full screen or let you set it to 4:3 - I understand some even give you a choice of black or silver/grey sidebars. The main thing is I would like to make my own decision, not have it forced by the stations if it's not absolutely necessary to have the bars. And you're right - I talked to one of the stations and ended up with someone in marketing who had no clue why the colored bars were a nuisance.
I just wondered if I was being nit-picky or if others are turned off by these colored bars also?
coyoteaz
05-21-08, 02:57 AM
The SD subchannels have nothing to sidebar since they're 4:3. If you're watching one of the SD subchannels on a 16:9 screen and it fills the whole screen, that's because your box or TV is stretching it for you. That doesn't happen on an HD channel since it's already widescreen with the bars being part of the video. This is actually a good thing, since you get to make the choice yourself, at least if you have a newer TV that can stretch HD. Very few TVs can unstretch SD programming stretched to fill the HD screen, so the station is actually doing the right thing by putting sidebars on, though the ones using colors or branding less so. You won't find support from fellow AVSers on wanting stations to stretch their SD programming on the HD channel; in fact, it's one of the most hated things for the vast majority of this community.
haley-SEA
05-21-08, 08:23 AM
That is one of my main pet peeves with some networks (TNT, TBS, History Channel), that by-God make the screen filled regardless of content. Our local MNTV affiliate (KWBF-DT) does this stretch-o-vision mainly due to laziness since most of the station's programming is SD (except for a handful of MNTV shows).
The worst example would be a major network station pulling this. I noticed this yesterday while DXing. WMDN-DT 26 (24-n) Meridian MS stretched CBS network SD programming yesterday (CBS Morning News, because the station lacked a local morning newscast, and also The Early Show).
Just because a CECB like the LG-Zenith can "squeeze" and restore proper aspect ratio doesn't mean all STB's can. E*'s Vip 211 cannot fix the issue of forced stretched programming, so in the case of History Channel (yes I still call it that) I revert to the SD version since at least I can watch in correct aspect.