We knew Kuro is the best plasma before the shootout, 991 posts and a lively debate about "respect". So what did we gain?

Many people learned alot from this shoot-out and had a great time doing it.
Which is a gain.

Some long time AVS friends finally got to meet each other face to face and enjoy the shoot-out together.
Which is a gain.

We learned what each panel is capable of when calibrated by a professional with the hard numbers to back it up.
Which is a gain.

We Found out which Flat panel performs the best by scientific measurements.
Which is a gain.


We learned alot of things from the people that asked questions to Robert, D-Nice, and Kevin. And those that were there got to watch the godfather re-matered to BD-ROM.
Which is a gain.

We also found out that regardless of all the hard work, planning, time, and effort that Robert & the gang put forth to hold this well planned and educational event, There will still be some who will complain like children about an event they had nothing to do with and didn't even attend.
Which is a SHAME.

Yes that statement was meant to be taken with sarcasm. I did read on here and agreed with the statements that the 650 wasn't calibrated for its best performance so I didn't see it as a fair test, so I was saying anything is possible. But trust me I completely agree Pioneer is in its own class and nothing has come close to their quality. Unfortunately they carry a serious price premium making them a tough choice for many.


??
Was that a serious statement or were you joking??

This thread has gotten ridiculous. No wonder why Robert, D-nice and others who participated hardly post here. This shootout was suppose to of great value to AVS members and a highlight for Robert. I'm sad to see the way this thread has gone down the drain and into the gutter. I don't plan on visiting this particular thread again. Nothing of value (no pun intended Robert) here lately. It has become to depressing to read what has happened here, My heart goes out to Robert and all those special people who put in so much time and effort organizing this shootout, only to get dumped on. I'm surprised the mod's have left this thread opened as long as it has.:confused:

Robert and the others gave so much and don't seem to get the praise they are deserved.I really hope the mods close this thread so all the babies can cry in another thread.Maybe one of the people that didn't help or attend will host their own shoot out when the new Samsung or Sony xbr20 or whatever comes out and then I know they will feel the same anguish that the others feel now.But I know that will never happen because it's easier to complain about others than to do it yourself.
Just wait in a couple of weeks there will be another magazine with pics of a Samsung,Sony or HELL maybe even a Vizio sitting on a wall next to all the rest with the best looking pic on the wall depending on which company paid for the event.
So to all the perfectionist if you want to do it right do it yourself.Just remember there's always somebody that can do it better.
(off my soapbox....just needed to vent.)
Thanks for the event Robert,Wendy and others.

prepress, that wasn't the case with what I saw at Best Buy/Magnolia with a 111 and a 110. It was relatively easy to tell the difference between the two sets on almost all the scenes I saw. The shadow delineation was noticeably deeper on the 111.

The difference is more appreciable when compared in better environments, but still.

I was able to see a 150FD and 151FD side by side at a Tweeter and if anything the 150 seemed to have the slightly better PQ to me. They were very very close.

please limit your comments to technical issues about the shootout

Thanks :)

8ironbob i cant stress it enough to say that based on what i assume the xbr8 or the 950 will not be at pioneers level nevertheless outperforme it, lcd to this date are still lack of important factors that plasma have exceeded, without getting too much into detail motion blurr and motion resolution is enough for me to not buy those tvs. with the blurr and all the fake 120hz that adds a frame to make it seem a better tv yeah right flat out, motion resolution is the reason why crt are the best in response yet not even plasam have even come close so how do we expect lcds to get here?

then theirs other flaws like clouds etc, without much more to said lcd hopes in alot of "add ons" in regards i leave to this last remark lcd was and is intended to be bright due to being watchable durring ambient light THEREfore needing less to no reflection, However by having a matte finish lcd lack of color vividness so what do they do about it? they add a glossy reflection
so now not only we have all the flaws of an lcd but a flaw of plasma which is reflection, all on top of the price that is near a pioneer why the heck would i buy an sammy 9 series 950 or a xbr8? i'v seen the sammy 950 it had soo much reflection i thought it was a plasma. so theirs no need in test bottom line is if you want best looking Picture quality and you contend the best xbr8 and best pioneer and best sammy 950 you flatout know the pioneer is best at PQ due to plasma being better in its technology and not assuming the obvious super bright whites and other inaccurate details.

Thanks for sharing that. Just wait around for an XBR8 or A950, then recompare things with Kuro Elite, then see which one comes out on top. However, you do have to admit, when it does come to LCDs, tho, S-LCD panels are definitely known to have some of the deepest blacks from any other panel technology out there, as well as best motion. Try finding deeper blacks in an LG panel or Sharp. However, it's still going to be uncertain how that'll compare to the Pio Elite.

Think of it as a virtual boxing match of sorts, you have the S-LCD partnership with Tri-LED backlighting in one corner representing the best of LCD vs. the best of plasma in the Pioneer Kuro line. Which one do you think will deliver the TKO?

This thread has gotten ridiculous. No wonder why Robert, D-nice and others who participated hardly post here. This shootout was suppose to of great value to AVS members and a highlight for Robert. I'm sad to see the way this thread has gone down the drain and into the gutter. I don't plan on visiting this particular thread again. Nothing of value (no pun intended Robert) here lately. It has become to depressing to read what has happened here, My heart goes out to Robert and all those special people who put in so much time and effort organizing this shootout, only to get dumped on. I'm surprised the mod's have left this thread opened as long as it has.:confused:

Megabyte you can add me to that list of not posting much due to what you said on this post.

I was able to see a 150FD and 151FD side by side at a Tweeter and if anything the 150 seemed to have the slightly better PQ to me. They were very very close.

av pallino you should know better then this that viewing environment and inproper ajustments are no way to judge a picture, Did you take the time to ajust both panels accordingly? its been said over and over how to properly compare panels and if you did do that and you dont seem to agree with others based on facts then should we not assume bias? sure everyone is entiled to their opinion but lets not forget facts are facts.

in regards to everyone why must you bring on the samsung this or samsung that? ok so it wasnt properly ajusted so you say big deal move on, you want top notch? get a pioneer you want something midrange get a samsung or a panasonic based on your liking not what others think.

as far as the elite 8g pro 110 vs the 9g pro 111 the 8g 110 was not available nor the 8g 1150, the 5020 couldnt be put on the list due to not having space

in my opinion i woul of put the 5020 over the toshiba but many wanted the toshiba oh well.




1. I believe it has been stated on this thread that others have been able to calibrate the Sammy model in this review to be more accurate.


1. It was stated that the 5010 was part of the shoot out to show progression in technology. Well, if that is the case, then why not use the Elite PRO 110FD v. Elite PRO 111FD to show progression - Apples to Apples.

2. Why not have the non Elite Pio in the mix. After all, to most when you have Pannys, Samsungs, LG and Toshiba - the most likely competition is the 5020. It raises the question, does the lack of picture controls on the 5020 make it more difficult to use in such a shoot out.

It is clearly Roberts perogative what he wants to do and how he does it. But as a forum member (someone who even owns a Pioneer Elite) I can raise points that I feel are valid. Not because I feel he is being deliberately biased, but because he may not have thought about something till someone brings it up. I believe he even went to the extent of matching hdmi cable brands!

When you conduct an experiment the set up is critical. We are all human and here are many variables. We cannot control all the variables, but the most important ones should be accounted for. I have no doubt that those who participated had a great time :)

Here is another twist. I went back to VE for a closer look at the 5010, which I had been wanting to get, and took my own DVDs up for evaluating it further. But, I ended up getting a PRO-111. The reason? Processing. Traditional animation is a great test, espeically SD. I used a Justice League DVD, and the 111 was cleaner, crisper, with no obvious artifacts. Outlines were sharp. The 5010 was noticeably soft by comparison. Nothing else matched the 111 either in this regard.

One interesting point, though. Of the four TVs that were on at the time (the Toshiba and LG weren't), only the Samsung had the red in Superman's costume right—this despite the obvious red push with most other material. On both Pioneers and the Panasonic, the reds in the costume were more magenta, very magenta on the Panasonic.

Prepress, Did you change the ColorSpace on those sets? Those displays were calibrated to Rec.709 for the Shout-Out, and I expect the content you brought was probably Rec.601. May explain the color being off some.

Prepress, Did you change the ColorSpace on those sets? Those displays were calibrated to Rec.709 for the Shout-Out, and I expect the content you brought was probably Rec.601. May explain the color being off some.

We didn't change anything color-related, though there was a quick run-through of the menus on the Pioneers as we sought to get proper aspect ratio for my DVDs; the sets were still in their calibration mode from the shoot-out. We were using a Toshiba HD-DVD set to 480i for my DVDs. When we viewed a Blu-Ray of a Chris Botti concert, there was no obvious difference in the color on any set (though the Samsung was a bit redder). Maybe the Toshiba player is the culprit? The Blu-ray (Panasonic) wouldn't play the DVDs for some reason; we never figured out why. An older Sony connected to a 151 did play them.

please limit your comments to technical issues about the shootout

Thanks :)

posts deleted


^^^

Okay, I am really curious to know, what is the best bang-for-the-buck television that appeared at the shoot-out? I am more inquiring for my friend, since I already own an Elite 151.

It's apparent the 111 was the top, but for the amount you pay, it's hard for many people to justify.

Would the 650 be the best bang-for-the-buck?

Okay, I am really curious to know, what is the best bang-for-the-buck television that appeared at the shoot-out? I am more inquiring for my friend, since I already own an Elite 151.

It's apparent the 111 was the top, but for the amount you pay, it's hard for many people to justify.

Would the 650 be the best bang-for-the-buck?

"Best bang for the buck"???...for my tastes I'd pick Panasonic w/the THX.

Okay, I am really curious to know, what is the best bang-for-the-buck television that appeared at the shoot-out? I am more inquiring for my friend, since I already own an Elite 151.

It's apparent the 111 was the top, but for the amount you pay, it's hard for many people to justify.

Would the 650 be the best bang-for-the-buck?

I was at the shoot-out and personally I really liked the Samsung over the Panny.

Definately the Samsung for me.

i attend the shootout on saturday,enjoy everything. i am waiting for my 151 to be delivered,besides the elites i liked the samsung the best yes it did push the reds. THANK YOU TO ROBERT,D-NICE, learn alot enjoy everyone.

Okay, I am really curious to know, what is the best bang-for-the-buck television that appeared at the shoot-out? I am more inquiring for my friend, since I already own an Elite 151.

It's apparent the 111 was the top, but for the amount you pay, it's hard for many people to justify.

Would the 650 be the best bang-for-the-buck?

I thought the Samsung was very good, even with the red push. The Panasonic was too washed out, to my eyes. This was obvious during the baseball game we watched. The Samsung made all the player's skin tones look too similar (due to the red), but I'd think you could simply turn the color down a bit to mitigate the effect, and thereby differentiate the differing skin tones more. The effect wasn't as obvious watching Discovery Channel in HD.

Okay, I am really curious to know, what is the best bang-for-the-buck television that appeared at the shoot-out? I am more inquiring for my friend, since I already own an Elite 151.

It's apparent the 111 was the top, but for the amount you pay, it's hard for many people to justify.

Would the 650 be the best bang-for-the-buck?

Was at the shootout on friday night and thought the panasonic ranked just ahead of the samsung.
I had a chance to revisit the store during the week. In an enviorment with some outside light entering the store the Panasonic really suffers.
I have to agree the samsung holds its own against the pioneers with outside lighting entering the store.:cool:
The panasonic really needs a light controlled enviorment.:eek:

Okay, I am really curious to know, what is the best bang-for-the-buck television that appeared at the shoot-out? I am more inquiring for my friend, since I already own an Elite 151.

It's apparent the 111 was the top, but for the amount you pay, it's hard for many people to justify.

Would the 650 be the best bang-for-the-buck?

There is also a 500 buck list price difference between the sammy and panny. There is also about a 100 watt difference (sammy a550 being referred to and being higher) between the two, post calibration according to cnet. I'm reading that extra energy translates to a bit o heat. Also new sammy A760 is supposed to launch in August.

If someone gave me the choice between the panny 800 only vs. sammy 650 + nice avr (or ps3 or 30 blu-ray movies of my choice), I'd take the latter. But since I've got a ps3 and onkyo 805, both of which give off a bit o heat, I'm hopping right back on the fence.

<Here's hoping to a 30%+ off list price sale for the Elite on Black Friday - wish me luck!>

I also reject and resent the elitist attitude on the part of the "videophiles", whatever that means, that there is something inherently wrong with the light, the people and the feed at these stores. A typical store, deliberately or by accident, is more representative of what the average buyer will have at home than the dungeons and caves, sorry, home theatres, of the connoisseurs. And the feed is just fine, too. I asked and got a walking tour how the whole network is set up. I suggest you, the B&M bashers, do the same thing and then we will talk. While there, measure the light intensity in the TV wall area. Then go home and do the same.


Couldn't disagree more.

Couldn't disagree more.

+1

av pallino you should know better then this that viewing environment and inproper ajustments are no way to judge a picture, Did you take the time to ajust both panels accordingly? its been said over and over how to properly compare panels and if you did do that and you dont seem to agree with others based on facts then should we not assume bias? sure everyone is entiled to their opinion but lets not forget facts are facts.

in regards to everyone why must you bring on the samsung this or samsung that? ok so it wasnt properly ajusted so you say big deal move on, you want top notch? get a pioneer you want something midrange get a samsung or a panasonic based on your liking not what others think.

as far as the elite 8g pro 110 vs the 9g pro 111 the 8g 110 was not available nor the 8g 1150, the 5020 couldnt be put on the list due to not having space

in my opinion i woul of put the 5020 over the toshiba but many wanted the toshiba oh well.






Both were running in their out of the box Pure Mode with default settings. The feed was Pirates of the Carribean At Worlds End Blu Ray (they had seperate players on each so only was was to start each movie at the same time) and Direct TV HD.

Like the other post of mine you linked to. The set up is important. In my case, the 150 and 151 were too close to call (with the respective placements in the store) I might have gone with the 150!

Honestly, it's your prerogative. That's the thing with human perception - everyone's got a different level of perception. If you couldn't deduct much of a difference, then I say, ignorance is bliss! You're certainly going to save yourself a bunch of money! I personally think that's perfectly fine.

I say let people judge themselves. I can talk about it and try to convince someone until I'm blue in the face, but it doesn't do any good if they never get to see it for themselves.

I hope that this post doesn't sound condescending at all...

There is also a 500 buck list price difference between the sammy and panny. There is also about a 100 watt difference (sammy a550 being referred to and being higher) between the two, post calibration according to cnet. I'm reading that extra energy translates to a bit o heat. Also new sammy A760 is supposed to launch in August.

If someone gave me the choice between the panny 800 only vs. sammy 650 + nice avr (or ps3 or 30 blu-ray movies of my choice), I'd take the latter. But since I've got a ps3 and onkyo 805, both of which give off a bit o heat, I'm hopping right back on the fence.

<Here's hoping to a 30%+ off list price sale for the Elite on Black Friday - wish me luck!>

I recently got my 58" 650 and I don't have a heat issue. I've read several posts and an expert review where this was mentioned but my set even after being on for 12 hours straight is only warm at best. It is far from "hot to the touch" as one expert reviewer commented. I was debating between the Panny and Sammy. Both were the same price on BR. Chose the Sammy for the bezel. IMHO the 650 just looks more impressive.

As many, I have been surprised with the Panasonic "wash out" problem when viewing in brighter environments. The Sammy certainly sounds like a panel worth looking into, if one does not want to invest in the Pioneer. I breifly saw the Panny and Sammy in a B/M store and liked the look of both, but the Sammy seemed more reflective than the Panny. My question is did this appear to be the case at the shoot out and does anyone know if the new 760 series will have a more non-reflective screen. I am guessing the black levels will be simialr on the 760 series as well.

As many, I have been surprised with the Panasonic "wash out" problem when viewing in brighter environments. The Sammy certainly sounds like a panel worth looking into, if one does not want to invest in the Pioneer. I breifly saw the Panny and Sammy in a B/M store and liked the look of both, but the Sammy seemed more reflective than the Panny. My question is did this appear to be the case at the shoot out and does anyone know if the new 760 series will have a more non-reflective screen. I am guessing the black levels will be simialr on the 760 series as well.

They seemed about the same to me. I went back to VE last Saturday and this seemed to be the case still, with doors and windows not blocked. Maybe the Panasonic is a touch more reflective, but being slightly closer to the door, the Panasonic had more reflections on it than the Samsung. This may have skewed what I saw.

As many, I have been surprised with the Panasonic "wash out" problem when viewing in brighter environments. The Sammy certainly sounds like a panel worth looking into, if one does not want to invest in the Pioneer. I breifly saw the Panny and Sammy in a B/M store and liked the look of both, but the Sammy seemed more reflective than the Panny. My question is did this appear to be the case at the shoot out and does anyone know if the new 760 series will have a more non-reflective screen. I am guessing the black levels will be simialr on the 760 series as well.

You may have seen a 550 and not a 650. Very different anti-glare between the two and I have not come across any negative comments on the 650 anti-glare, but have read many regarding the 550.

av pallino so then you agree that once properly adjusted the 151 is a better set?

Both were running in their out of the box Pure Mode with default settings. The feed was Pirates of the Carribean At Worlds End Blu Ray (they had seperate players on each so only was was to start each movie at the same time) and Direct TV HD.

Like the other post of mine you linked to. The set up is important. In my case, the 150 and 151 were too close to call (with the respective placements in the store) I might have gone with the 150!



also the samsung 650 and 950 have alot of reflection/reflective coat man i can say it feels to me that its more then my panasonic and mine is a plasma!.

in between the 650 like the 750 850? all the way to the 950 are the rest reflective as well?

btw i think we are already off topic with the thread lol

I recently got my 58" 650 and I don't have a heat issue. I've read several posts and an expert review where this was mentioned but my set even after being on for 12 hours straight is only warm at best. It is far from "hot to the touch" as one expert reviewer commented. I was debating between the Panny and Sammy. Both were the same price on BR. Chose the Sammy for the bezel. IMHO the 650 just looks more impressive.

I don't think any 58" pannys are out so you may have been comparing 58" sammy with a 50" panny or an older line, not the 800?

av pallino so then you agree that once properly adjusted the 151 is a better set?





also the samsung 650 and 950 have alot of reflection/reflective coat man i can say it feels to me that its more then my panasonic and mine is a plasma!.

in between the 650 like the 750 850? all the way to the 950 are the rest reflective as well?

btw i think we are already off topic with the thread lolHe is talking about Sammy's plasmas. The 550 has a lesser AR screen that the 650.

I don't think any 58" pannys are out so you may have been comparing 58" sammy with a 50" panny or an older line, not the 800?

Correct - the 800U is not available yet in a 58". I compared the Sammy PN58A650 to the Panny TH58PZ750U and TH58PZ700U.

You are correct, I was seeing the 550 and not the 650, I had thought they had the same type of anti-refelctive screens. Good to hear the 650 is better. Now if the 700 series plasmas can do a little better on the black levels..... Not a deal killer though.

coltfreak im trying to say that the 650 and the 950 have alot of reflection glare as i have seem them in person. also i think between the 650 to the 950 they all share the same AR/AG screen coats dont they?

at the point of the 950 or any of the 6 to 9 series from sammy if they are as close in price to pioneer then i'd take a pioneer as always


He is talking about Sammy's plasmas. The 550 has a lesser AR screen that the 650.

Doesn't the 900 Series have UltraClear vs UltraFilter Bright anti-glare technology for the 650? I would be curious as to the difference in anti-glare qualities between the two. The 650 is considerably cheaper than the Pioneers, especially the Elites, do not know about the 950.

the 950 is not yet on stores and i saw it very reflective i dont know if its the same AR/AG and i saw a 650 for some time, to me i like the pioneer better but thats just me

I'm still torn between the Sammy and the Panny.

I'd be using the set in a basement room with no window and lights on a dimmer. I mostly game and watch movies and NFL football with a little HD network TV.

Should the controlled environment put the Panny over the top? Which panel would be more resistant to IR?

I'm still torn between the Sammy and the Panny.

I'd be using the set in a basement room with no window and lights on a dimmer. I mostly game and watch movies and NFL football with a little HD network TV.

Should the controlled environment put the Panny over the top? Which panel would be more resistant to IR?

Unsure, but Panasonics have a reputation for being resistant to burn-in.

I'm still torn between the Sammy and the Panny.

I'd be using the set in a basement room with no window and lights on a dimmer. I mostly game and watch movies and NFL football with a little HD network TV.

Should the controlled environment put the Panny over the top? Which panel would be more resistant to IR?

Pioneer panels are virtually immune to IR. The second place goes for Panasonic. In my experience, Samsung panels are more prone to IR than others, but you shouldn't worry because it goes away in a matter of SECONDS...

anyhow...I'd choose the Panasonic plasma between the 2 anyday, specially for a black level reason

Yes. At the shoot-out, the Panasonic's blacks were clearly better.

Yes. At the shoot-out, the Panasonic's blacks were clearly better.

I've missed some chapters from this shoot-out special...still no pictures or videos from the event?? I'd love to see them! someone? :confused:

I've missed some chapters from this shoot-out special...still no pictures or videos from the event?? I'd love to see them! someone? :confused:This is where the video was streamed (i think there may be an active loop http://www.mogulus.com/soso but it may not work.

Pioneer panels are virtually immune to IR. The second place goes for Panasonic. In my experience, Samsung panels are more prone to IR than others, but you shouldn't worry because it goes away in a matter of SECONDS...

anyhow...I'd choose the Panasonic plasma between the 2 anyday, specially for a black level reason

Wait, so you'd choose the Panasonic over the Samsung and the Pioneer because of the black levels?

Oh wow this thread is old but since you guys posted im going to quote a few of you :)

Darkandlong as mentioned the panasonic has a better IR resistance and better blacks and to me looks better in PQ then the samsung, but neither of these are to me are compareable to a pioneer, both in IR and intense superior processing/(makes wonders with SD) de/interlacing and so on .

I'm still torn between the Sammy and the Panny.

I'd be using the set in a basement room with no window and lights on a dimmer. I mostly game and watch movies and NFL football with a little HD network TV.

Should the controlled environment put the Panny over the top? Which panel would be more resistant to IR?

i agree
Unsure, but Panasonics have a reputation for being resistant to burn-in.

YEP once i agree 100% pioneer are the best in this and many other area's!

Pioneer panels are virtually immune to IR. The second place goes for Panasonic. In my experience, Samsung panels are more prone to IR than others, but you shouldn't worry because it goes away in a matter of SECONDS...

anyhow...I'd choose the Panasonic plasma between the 2 anyday, specially for a black level reason


how is this suprising? this is one of the many many improvements that the pioneer is better.

Wait, so you'd choose the Panasonic over the Samsung and the Pioneer because of the black levels?

Gus, unless I am reading incorrectly, he is saying he chose the Panasonic over the Samsung, and the Pioneer because of black levels.:confused:

Of the three, the Pioneers had the best black level (9G then 8G), then the Panasonic, then the Samsung. Oddly, the Toshiba LCD that was in the mix appeared to have better blacks than the Pioneers when the room was full of light. Once the lights went down and then off it couldn't compare. And only the Samsung (to my eyes) got Superman's red cape right watching a Justice League cartoon during a return visit to VE.

But overall, the Pioneers were better. I ended up getting a 111 and have no complaints, except for the single component input; I'd prefer another.

The Panny has the better black levels but at the shootout many felt the Samsung took 2nd place with it's accurate color and the Panny looked washed out.

The Panny has the better black levels but at the shootout many felt the Samsung took 2nd place with it's accurate color and the Panny looked washed out.

Yes, even with the Samsung's red push.

We now have a updated video listed on our Kuro page. It has the both opening presentations and the better technical presentation from Kevin Miller.

-Robert

Oh wow this thread is old but since you guys posted im going to quote a few of you :)

Darkandlong as mentioned the panasonic has a better IR resistance and better blacks and to me looks better in PQ then the samsung, but neither of these are to me are compareable to a pioneer, both in IR and intense superior processing/(makes wonders with SD) de/interlacing and so on .

SD means nothing to me, maybe 5%? (probably less) of my TV use is SD.

And Pioneer is out. Sure they're great sets but I don't have that amount of cash. Panny or Sammy are in the budget. I keep reading about how Sammy looks great after calibration but that basically bumps the price up closer to the Panny's MSRP making it more of a wash since I can basically just set the Z800 to THX and have great IQ.

Showed the wife a set of pics from a side-by-side comparison from another thread of the 650/Z800 and she preferred the sharpness of the Panny over the Colours of the Sammy.

SD means nothing to me, maybe 5%? (probably less) of my TV use is SD.

And Pioneer is out. Sure they're great sets but I don't have that amount of cash. Panny or Sammy are in the budget. I keep reading about how Sammy looks great after calibration but that basically bumps the price up closer to the Panny's MSRP making it more of a wash since I can basically just set the Z800 to THX and have great IQ.

Showed the wife a set of pics from a side-by-side comparison from another thread of the 650/Z800 and she preferred the sharpness of the Panny over the Colours of the Sammy.I always thought THX mode was somewhat of a fire-and-forget mode, but I since learned otherwise. I mentioned it on a 9G kuro thread when I said this
Maybe because close to the rule of thumb on the 800Us is just put in THX and forget? and D-Nice (who has had an 800u for his daughter, but decided to return it and wait for a different set later [probably whenever Pioneer makes a 42" panel again]. He also has extensive calibration knowledge, is a professional, and experiments with all of his displays thoroughly) said this about the THX mode
And if 800u owners think that use their THX mode is a "set it and forget it" mode, they are sadly mistaken.This was in a discussion of why PZ800U owners don't share their settings as much as some people for kuros.

I found an HDMI matrix switcher that is 1.3 deep color compliant:

http://www.firefold.com/4-x-4-HDMI-Matrix-Switch-Rack-Mountable-P1841C492.aspx#

it looks like the Gefen that Robert used but there are differences like manual front panel controls and does not appear to have the HDMI connector locking feature

I have one coming in to test

SD means nothing to me, maybe 5%? (probably less) of my TV use is SD.

And Pioneer is out. Sure they're great sets but I don't have that amount of cash. Panny or Sammy are in the budget. I keep reading about how Sammy looks great after calibration but that basically bumps the price up closer to the Panny's MSRP making it more of a wash since I can basically just set the Z800 to THX and have great IQ.

Showed the wife a set of pics from a side-by-side comparison from another thread of the 650/Z800 and she preferred the sharpness of the Panny over the Colours of the Sammy.

Do you have a link to that thread of pictures comparing the 650 to the 800U? I'm also torn between these two sets...

http://www.*********************/avstc.htm

I found an HDMI matrix switcher that is 1.3 deep color compliant:

http://www.firefold.com/4-x-4-HDMI-Matrix-Switch-Rack-Mountable-P1841C492.aspx#

it looks like the Gefen that Robert used but there are differences like manual front panel controls and does not appear to have the HDMI connector locking feature

I have one coming in to test

forgive me for bumping an old thread but....

I tested the matrix switcher from Firefold linked above: and returned it.

Even though the ad says 1.3 compliant the fine print in the spec sheet in the box says it works with HDMI 1.2 compatible devices: big difference

Further...the times to switch sources took a long, long time: this switch was a disappointment

more: Kevin Miller calibrated my new KURO 141: I have the same Gefen HDMI matrix switcher in my system: we confirmed the Gefen did not add any white level clipping or other issues to the video [although the issue of deep color support is still unknown: I doubt it supports it]

I was hesitant to chime in on this forum but I can no longer hold back after reading all the negative blows the organizers and guests of the shoot-out event have experienced.

I watched the video of the shoot-out from start to finish. Was it Pioneer biased? Perhaps. Was it skewed in favour of Pioneer by purposely not properly calibrating particular sets? I doubt it very much.

I currently own a 58" Panasonic, purchased about 14 months ago for a home theater set-up. I also own an LCD Samsung for our bedroom. Both are calibrated to their full potential. The Samsung cannot even come close to the Panny.

A co-worker of mine just purchased a 111FD which I viewed for the first time last week. This is an uncalibrated set using the "out of the box" settings with only a few hours on it. I can safely say that the 111 is superior to anything else I've seen even though it is still in an uncalibrated and new state. I was so impressed that I ordered a 151FD the very next day. However, part of that decision was due to the news that the 9G panel would be the last of the Pioneers as I was really hoping to wait for the 10G panel. So, if I wanted the best, now was the time to get it.

So, to those who are trying to convince themselves that their LCD's can magically be calibrated to compete with the 111/151, give your heads a shake. People who purchase a Pioneer don't purchase them to watch them in their bright sunny living rooms. (well, perhaps some do) Nor do they purchase them to watch SD TV....come on, this is a high performance HDTV. Get an old fashioned CRT if that's your desire. Get an LCD for your bright living room! If you watch daytime soaps, get an LCD. Try watching hockey on any LCD and not having a headache by the 3rd period. Those who purchase Pioneers are home theater enthusiasts who simply want the best for that environment. Are LCD's getting better? Sure they are. The LED backlit sets such as the 950 Sammy and the Sony XBR8 are now approaching or are at infinite black levels. However, they still have not mastered the shadow detail of Pioneers. Will they get it right? Probably, but until LCD manufacturers fix their off-axis viewing issues, they will not be able to compete fully with plasmas.

So let's not insult the organizers of the event because you are sour about the outcome. I dare say the Pioneers would have still come out on top if they were uncalibrated and each of the other sets were. They are simply better. Everyone knows it, so, come on get over it and go back to your bright living rooms and enjoy your LCD's.

Oh, I only counted 2 Pioneers in the shoot-out, so not only can't you admit what you see, you can't count either.

Whew! That feels better.

Mark,

You just should have left sleeping dogs lay.

yup

we are done here

Great thread :)