This game 1 Pistons @ Celtics on ESPN is absolutely DISGUSTING via D*. The Cavs/Celtics game on Sunday (and a lot of other ESPN/ABC games) looked so much better than this. Severe artifacting on the main center court cam, almost unwatchable. Lots of grain in every shot. Is there a problem with the feed from Boston tonight? Is it going via YouTube to Bristol ?

Good old Faux 480p widescreen would look better than this crap.

Watching on 1080p 50" plasma.

Get a mental image of this game then compare to tomorrow's game on TNT. You will see how much more vivid the image is, and, just as important, how much closer you are as a viewer to the action. Given that, ESPN is still doing a better job than ABC.

If you havent noticed by now, the way the HD comes in has to deal with where you live.
For example, Where I am in CT, TNT and ESPN come in beautiful, no problems at all, but ABC comes in crappy; while other people say its the other way around. So just because it bad where you are, doesn't mean it bad for everyone.

Get a mental image of this game then compare to tomorrow's game on TNT. You will see how much more vivid the image is, and, just as important, how much closer you are as a viewer to the action. Given that, ESPN is still doing a better job than ABC.

I'm not sure what you're basis for comparison is. The stadiums generally have fixed camera positions for the game-follow cameras. There isn't much any particular network could really do in this area as this is a factor of venue design. Same with football. Ohio State and Purdue are notorious for bad camera positions (you're looking almost vertically at the field). ABC and TNT are placing their cameras in roughly the same positions. The lensing might be slightly different (but probably not as basketball is pretty conventional). The overall game production for both networks is pretty straightforward basketball. Jimmy Moore, Mike Ireland and the ESPN guys are using more roving handheld shots between plays from the guy seated at mid-court, TNT relies heavily on handhelds with wide angle lenses and star filters, but as far as cutting the game basketball is basketball. Eliminate the skycam, and from a shot selection and rhythm aspect, it would be hard to tell the two that far apart. But the idea of TNT being 'closer' to the action is more perception than reality given the constraints of where to place cameras in an NBA arena.

Eastern Conference Finals
Detroit Pistons vs. Boston Celtics

Gm. 1:Tue., May 20: at Boston, 8:30 p.m. ET (ESPN)
Gm. 2:Thu., May 22: at Boston, 8:30 p.m. ET (ESPN)
Gm. 3:Sat., May 24: at Detroit, 8:30 p.m. ET (ABC)
Gm. 4:Mon., May 26: at Detroit, 8:30 p.m. ET (ESPN)
Gm. 5*:Wed., May 28: at Boston, 8:30 p.m. ET (ESPN)
Gm. 6*:Fri., May 30: at Detroit, 8:30 p.m. ET (ESPN)
Gm. 7*:Sun., June 1: at Boston, 8:30 p.m. ET (ABC)
* if necessary


Western Conference Finals
Los Angeles Lakers vs. San Antonio Spurs

Gm. 1:Wed., May 21: at Los Angeles, 9 p.m. ET (TNT)
Gm. 2:Fri., May 23: at Los Angeles, 9 p.m. ET (TNT)
Gm. 3:Sun., May 25: at San Antonio, 8:30 p.m. ET (TNT)
Gm. 4:Tue., May 27: at San Antonio, 9 p.m. ET (TNT)
Gm. 5*:Thu., May 29: at Los Angeles, 9 p.m. ET (TNT)
Gm. 6*:Sat., May 31: at San Antonio, 8:30 p.m. ET (TNT)
Gm. 7*:Mon., June 2: at Los Angeles, 9 p.m. ET (TNT)
* if necessary

ESPN is still doing a better job than ABC.
How can ESPN do a better job than ABC when they are the ones who do the ABC games?

Thought the PQ was outstanding last night. Better than TNT, CSN & ABC. Watched via Comcast-Boston.

Game picture was far better than TNT, but the non game (outside views, skyline, etc...) were TERRIBLY grainy.

BTW...BHN in Tampa, FL

Game 1 of West Final on TNT looks OK, maybe a little dark, sounds fine. Comcast Detroit.

Must be that center court camera!:eek::D:eek::D

Also, I'm seeing some blocking.

Thought the PQ was outstanding last night. Better than TNT, CSN & ABC. Watched via Comcast-Boston.

I happen to agree. Same provider and area.

This game on TNT has a decent amount of blocking.

It looked great leaving the 53' white box

Lakers/Spurs game on TNT PQ was excellent here (Comcast SF Bay Area). The lighting was a bit dark at times in the stadium. I just thought it was an aesthetic decision by Staples managers.

It looked great leaving the 53' white box
Which Supershooter are you in?

The lighting was a bit dark at times in the stadium. I just thought it was an aesthetic decision by Staples managers.
This is a decision by Lakers management to emulate the lighting at the Lakers previous home, the FORUM.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/lights_out.html

tnt lakers/spurs game last night was much better pq than spurs/hornets game monday. that game monday was atrocious. i guess tnt is too cheap to send their hd cameras to new orleans

tnt lakers/spurs game last night was much better pq than spurs/hornets game monday. that game monday was atrocious. i guess tnt is too cheap to send their hd cameras to new orleans

LOL! You guys crack me up. Yeah it has nothing to do with the provider or something between TNT and your set. It has to be the cameras.

I personally dont care what the pq looks like as long as lakers still keep winning. But after the finals I want the pq to be the best possible.

I personally dont care what the pq looks like as long as lakers still keep winning. But after the finals I want the pq to be the best possible.

Couldn't agree with you more. Lakers FTW!!! Anyways, ABC is the only channel I would like to Improve on. TNT and ESPN have been fine for me recently.

This is a decision by Lakers management to emulate the lighting at the Lakers previous home, the FORUM.

http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/lights_out.html

I actually think the (reduced) lighting at Staples has a positive impact on PQ.

This game 1 Pistons @ Celtics on ESPN is absolutely DISGUSTING via D*. The Cavs/Celtics game on Sunday (and a lot of other ESPN/ABC games) looked so much better than this. Severe artifacting on the main center court cam, almost unwatchable. Lots of grain in every shot. Is there a problem with the feed from Boston tonight? Is it going via YouTube to Bristol ?

Good old Faux 480p widescreen would look better than this crap.

Watching on 1080p 50" plasma.

Well, Game 2 (Thursday 5/22) looks equally disgusting via D*. Riddled with artifacts and grain. Closeup shots filled with grain.

Would love to know how ESPN/ABC's game out of Cleveland on Sunday (also via D*) looked so much better than this.

I actually think the (reduced) lighting at Staples has a positive impact on PQ.

I agree with that. I think it was the Utah Jazz that have the very brightly lit arena? The crowd was just as well lit as the floor. Kinda like a K-Mart store with the harsh flourescent lighting everywhere. That was hard to watch when I saw those games on TNT.

Picture looks good over here on cox

Game 2 between Pistons 7 Celtics on ESPN HD, looked Ok, sounded Ok. Comcast Detroit. Minor blocking.

It looks like ESPN was limiting the SkyCam shots to replays, never going to it live. This is a much better use for it!

I'm not feeling ESPN's PQ on comcast in the dc area...picture always looks grainy, TNT's picture always pops right off the screen...plus they have the better studio show anyway...i almost wish i had local feeds for espn games..

Maybe its justs bad memory but I thought ESPNHD looked so much better when I was with Dish Network. I am now with D* and I thought since it was in MPEG2 that is why the pq was a bit poor, but now that I am hearing from other providers I am beginning to think something is wrong with ESPN which is shocking since they have major sporting event in the their lineup.

The PQ wasn't great last night via DirecTV. However, after the game NBATV showed an HD highlight from ESPN, and the PQ was incredible! Better than I have ever seen ESPN HD look, by far. So ESPN is sending out some awesome quality HD, but we're definitely not seeing it.

The PQ is really great tonight on TNT!

The PQ is really great tonight on TNT!

Based on your previous post, I'd say you're cheating! :eek::D:eek:

Check out TNT overtime on NBA.com.

Other than some very minor instances of macroblocking, PQ on Spurs/Lakers on TNT is awesome.

It was the sneakers!

I liked the score at the bottom right the best, it looked so clear and sharp. I hope its the good on Sunday. GO LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks good on WXYZ-DT ABC Detroit, via Charter in Whitmore Lake, MI.

Center court cam looks soft and pretty awful. Ground shots look fine. WCVB-DT via Comcast Metro Boston. I never expect ABC HD to look great due to the up-conversion to 1080i that Hearst-Argyle does.

Looks good on WXYZ-DT ABC Detroit, via Charter in Whitmore Lake, MI.

Over D* in Livonia, MI looks awful. The video stopped for a good 45 seconds while the audio is still running twice during the 1st and 3rd quarter. Sunday games during the season look pretty bad also. It must be D*.

I've only caught game 3 of BOS-DET, but that was the vomit cam that they finally decided to reposition much higher up, right? Shooting from closer to an overhead angle and from further away? I have to ask because the couple of shots from it I saw weren't nausea inducing. Have they been doing that for all the games?

last night's Detroit/Boston game looked TERRIBLE on OTA orlando, FL

Lakers @ Spurs, TNT, Sunday night.

Looks really good via D* channel 245. Closeups excellent, not seeing any noticable macroblocking on motion. Main center court cam looks very good.

Watching on a 50" 1080p plasma.

Almost looks SD here in Pittsburgh on Comcast. Looks ok though. Even the center court camera!:D I know it's probably looking good leaving the white box! Paulie seems to have a nice picture so I'm guessing it's a Comcast thang.

Definitely leaving the white box looking good. Must be your Comcast feed. Make sure that you are watching the HD feed. How old is your B&W TV?

did anyone else think tongihts lakers spurs looked awful when the players were moving. seems that tnt has horrible macroblocking

why is that?

there closeups and like free throw angles looked good but the cameras they use for most the game looked awful

Who is your cable provider?

Watching on a 1974 RCA with color track. That's HD compatible... Right?:D Up is brighter, down is darker there Otto.

solid quality on the tnt broadcast again tonight...plus the lakers are losing, so i think thats making it even better for me...barkley was tearing into their defense earlier..

Right On!!

If you were in your 53' white box it would at least be 10 years newer.

TNT PQ Outstanding as usual. 1080i versus 720p. Much cleaner.

Looked bad on E*, or should I say the norm for TNT on E*.

Each NBA Playoff game on ABC has had some annoying background noise like it is broadcast in a tunnel. It doesn't matter what game site, it is always present. There is no such problem with the TNT games, and I've never heard that noise in any arena I've attended.

Is this noticed by others? Is it a sound mix issue with ABC? It is present whether I use HDMI or my DD Receiver.

Broadcast is TWC here in Raleigh, NC.

Each NBA Playoff game on ABC has had some annoying background noise like it is broadcast in a tunnel.
Do you notice it on ESPN games as well? They're done using the same hardware and Circle Surround that the ABC games use. If you don't, then it's something with your affiliate.

TNT PQ Outstanding as usual. 1080i versus 720p. Much cleaner.

. . . . .please do not start this -- nothing will kill a thread faster

I have TNT HD through FIOS cable and PQ is always amazing. No macroblocking or any anomalies. Game looked great.

Is the HD looking pretty horrible for all providers on the Pistons game tonight? The main cam is looking really bad here (D* Ch. 206).

I just switched to D* today. Im really curious if Im seeing a D* problem or an ESPN HD problem. The main cam is blurry, lacking detail, ghosting and often pixelated is what Im seeing. Close up/still cams seem to look fine. Never seen this amount of pixelation on an ESPNHD game via Charter HD, but I do understand this could be an ESPNHD issue tonight..

Coming from a past D* subscriber, this is looking like a D* MPEG-2 problem to me though. I would love to hear that it looks like garbage on all providers though :)

Each NBA Playoff game on ABC has had some annoying background noise like it is broadcast in a tunnel.


Could it be the thunder sticks that are given out to nearly every crowd in every arena? I know that annoying sound does seem to mess with the overall sound of the game, at least to me.

Agreed here - D* 206 in Detroit and the picture was awful. Ironically the Wings game was far superior on VS.

Agreed here - D* 206 in Detroit and the picture was awful. Ironically the Wings game was far superior on VS.

How is that ironic?

How is that ironic?

I was wondering the same, but wasnt going to ask :)

Versus just plain rocks, and its MPEG-4.

How is that ironic?

Oh just that ESPN has seriously more cash than VS - and it is the NBA and yet they can't show us a good HD picture.

A local California Pizza Kitchen had the game up in HD on a Panasonic flat panel.

Somehow, the players looked squished and too skinny and tall.

Can someone explain how this look is even possible on an HDTV? The screen might be have a little more vertical vs. horizontal than my screen at home, but it shouldn't cause that drastic an effect.

The game looked fine on my set at home.

A local California Pizza Kitchen had the game up in HD on a Panasonic flat panel.

Somehow, the players looked squished and too skinny and tall.

Can someone explain how this look is even possible on an HDTV? The screen might be have a little more vertical vs. horizontal than my screen at home, but it shouldn't cause that drastic an effect.

The game looked fine on my set at home.

Could be any combination of settings on a set-top-box or the HDTV itself.

Could be any combination of settings on a set-top-box or the HDTV itself.

Or they didnt have it on the HD channel (and probably dont even subscribe to an HD service). That would seem the most likely scenario to me. Most of the bars in my hometown have fancy HDTV's and zero HD service. If you ask them they'll swear up and down its HD. They bought an HDTV, how could it not be HD? :D Thats their story and theyre sticking to it!

Translation: to the common consumer HD is still in the mass confusion stage.

In this case, it was ESPN HD, and the tell-tale sidebars came for the SD commercials, so that is why I think it is an HD source signal, but munged somehow by the playback.

In this case, it was ESPN HD, and the tell-tale sidebars came for the SD commercials, so that is why I think it is an HD source signal, but munged somehow by the playback.

I've seen some places take a 16:9 signal and squeeze it to 4:3. Again this would be a set top box or TV setting, most restaurants and bars are not diligent with this kinda stuff at all, and may not even know better. Though im starting to see this less its still common to see stretched 4:3 on those plasmas.

All I know is that when I see the highlights on ESPNewsHD I get confused since the highlights looks so much sharper and clearer. I just hope its MPEG2 for D*

All I know is that when I see the highlights on ESPNewsHD I get confused since the highlights looks so much sharper and clearer. I just hope its MPEG2 for D*
It's got to be the MPEG2. Highlights on MPEG4 channels look incredible.

All I know is that when I see the highlights on ESPNewsHD I get confused since the highlights looks so much sharper and clearer. I just hope its MPEG2 for D*


It helps that any hi-lite on ESPNewsHD only uses about 2/3 of your screen. :)

spurs-lakers tonight, tnt-hd via comcrap (pittsburgh) looks HORRRRRIBLE except any still close ups.

spurs-lakers tonight, tnt-hd via comcrap (pittsburgh) looks HORRRRRIBLE except any still close ups.

Hard to imagine it could look worse than what Im seeing on D*. This whole telecast just reeks of bad compression and low bit rates. A single camera flash in the crowd is enough to cause noticeable pixelation! :D

Oh well, I knew this is what Id be getting with the MPEG-2 channels when I switched to D*. I honestly didnt think it could be this bad though, wow. Between last nights Piston game (Its a 720p channel for gods sake!) and tonights Laker game, this is the most god awful excuse for HD I ever laid eyes on. Gotta suck it up and take it like a man I guess :)

Hard to imagine it could look worse than what Im seeing on D*. This whole telecast just reeks of bad compression and low bit rates. A single camera flash in the crowd is enough to cause noticeable pixelation! :D

Oh well, I knew this is what Id be getting with the MPEG-2 channels when I switched to D*. I honestly didnt think it could be this bad though, wow. Between last nights Piston game (Its a 720p channel for gods sake!) and tonights Laker game, this is the most god awful excuse for HD I ever laid eyes on. Gotta suck it up and take it like a man I guess :)

i never thought i'd see white jerseys macroblock.

the halftime show thing looks good.
wtf.

(granted its little motion and all... but the grain is gone, the colors are alive, etc)

Oh well, I knew this is what Id be getting with the MPEG-2 channels when I switched to D*.

It won't last forever. MPEG4 is coming.

It won't last forever. MPEG4 is coming.

Yep, Im confident it will happen by the end of the summer. I can get thru the summer months with it the way it is. Once all the playoffs are over I wont have alot of use for TNT or ESPN.

wow, that no-call on barry shot at the end.... in the wake of the whole ref-betting controversy is just mind-numbingly bad... good job stern!

Do you notice it on ESPN games as well? They're done using the same hardware and Circle Surround that the ABC games use. If you don't, then it's something with your affiliate.

Not sure, but think I've heard it on both. Less on ESPN and very much on ABC. Definitely not my set, as different sites have same issue and my son notices it at a friend's house during ABC broadcast. Could be local.

Could it be the thunder sticks that are given out to nearly every crowd in every arena? I know that annoying sound does seem to mess with the overall sound of the game, at least to me.

No, since not happening on TNT. Also, various game sites have same sound issue, but all only on ABC broadcasts.

that sure looked like a foul to me. way too critical point in the game for a non-call after that much contact. barry should have been on the line at least shooting 2 if not 3. by allowing that controversial ref who holds a grudge against the spurs to participate in the game, the nba and stern have set themseves up for a lot of second guessing.

any refs with bets on that game?

the integrity of the playoffs is looking rather dicey

that sure looked like a foul to me. way too critical point in the game for a non-call after that much contact. barry should have been on the line at least shooting 2 if not 3. by allowing that controversial ref who holds a grudge against the spurs to participate in the game, the nba and stern have set themseves up for a lot of second guessing.

any refs with bets on that game?

the integrity of the playoffs is looking rather dicey

Sure looked like a good no-call to me. If you look closely, Barry traveled before Fisher made contact. And anyways, the Spurs were getting ALL the calls the entire game, it was totally one-sided. If it really was a foul, then that's just bad karma.

Sure looked like a good no-call to me. If you look closely, Barry traveled before Fisher made contact. And anyways, the Spurs were getting ALL the calls the entire game, it was totally one-sided. If it really was a foul, then that's just bad karma.

certainly the spurs got more calls than the lakers. but that contact was so obvious and at such a critical point in time. if joey crawford had not been a game ref there would have been so much less to question.

the nba looks foolish for letting crawford get involved in a game that winds up with a controversial finish. that's really my point

if anything, fisher's "air ball" that went off horry's knee actually hit the rim - the shot clock should've reset and the lakers should've been able to run the clock out or get 2 free throws.

The barry no-call at the end balanced that out.

Pistons @ Celtics, Wednesday night on ESPN.

Looks terrible via D*. Heavy compression artifacts, and lots of grain. Instead of dancing grass, we have plenty of "dancing wood" on the main center court cam. My guess is this is well under a 10Mbps bitrate. I've seen Fox pull off better looking NFL at 12Mbps.

Hopefully we only have one more game left for TNT tommorrow night. And no matter what happens Friday ABC will be airing game 7. So bye bye MPEG2 next November will get MPEG4 for ESPN and TNT or at least I hope so.

Pistons @ Celtics, Wednesday night on ESPN.

Looks terrible via D*. Heavy compression artifacts, and lots of grain. Instead of dancing grass, we have plenty of "dancing wood" on the main center court cam. My guess is this is well under a 10Mbps bitrate. I've seen Fox pull off better looking NFL at 12Mbps.

I agree the PQ was just plain horrible. I can't wait for them to get this on MPEG 4

Hopefully we only have one more game left for TNT tomorrow night.

Some of feel the same way for different reasons!:D:eek::D

Last night's game looked great on TWC. However, is Boston trying to lose? Also, is Rondo the worst player in the series?

The HD on D* for The Pistons game was so bad last night that I decided to plug in my Charter HD box that I have yet to return to Charter.

Via Charter HD the game looked perfectly fine (by ESPNHD standards, which arent very high).

The overall PQ was still dull and lacking that HD pop, but I have come to expect that for a good 9 out of 10 ESPNHD games. The constant pixelation and flickering/breaking up of the pic that I was seeing via D* was 100% non existent on Charter though.

I honestly cannot believe the state of ESPNHD on D*. I knew the MPEG-2 would suck when I switched over to D*, since I have subbed to D* HD in the past. I never expected this though.. How on Earth can they manage to make a 720p channel look so bad? Seems to me they would have to try really, really hard to accomplish this.

Also, is Rondo the worst player in the series?

Try telling that to VanGundy. This idiot is so busy swinging on Celtic man parts its insane. I believe if you ask VanMoron he'd tell you Rondo was first team All NBA. I wonder if ESPN could possibly come up with a more biased crew for this series?

Got the RCA Color Trak all warmed up and looking for a Lakers win. Hoping Otto Von Iris will be awake and give us some good pictures tonight! You up for it Otto?:D

Hey Southern 2356 - Is it warmed up yet?

How's the color?

Almost got blue now in the picture. Another 1.2 hour I should have it!:D

I'm not getting surround. I checked the speaker on the TV. It seems to be working.

If either of you were TD'ing tonight's game, nice job on the color bars going to break in the middle of the 4th. :p

If either of you were TD'ing tonight's game, nice job on the color bars going to break in the middle of the 4th. :p

Must have been macro blocking that only looked like color bars.

Must have been macro blocking that only looked like color bars.
That was some pretty crazy macro blocking then, because it said "TNT Los Angeles, CA" in the middle, and the color bars were scrolling from right to left. It's amazing what over-compression can do!

http://www.nba.com/media/nbacares/nba_cares_logo.gif

Thursday (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8190282/Wallace-fined-for-profanity,-criticizing-officials)

"The cats are flopping all over the floor and they're calling that,"

Also Thursday (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8192174/Saying-goodbye-to-a-postseason-full-of-flops)

Almost got blue now in the picture. Another 1.2 hour I should have it!:DGive the Tint knob a twist.....:rolleyes:

My DirecTV reception fell apart just like the Pistons at the end of the game.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=111692&d=1212205324

You can almost make out what looks like color bars in that shot!:D:D:D:eek::eek::eek:

My DirecTV reception fell apart just like the Pistons at the end of the game.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=111692&d=1212205324

I hope your not a Celtic fan that would have sucked to miss the Eastern Conference Trophy presentation.

I hope your not a Celtic fan that would have sucked to miss the Eastern Conference Trophy presentation.
No, definitely not a Celtic fan.