Just trying to do some troubleshooting here. Along with myself, there are others who are experiencing the "helicopter" or "lawnmower" sound when bitstreaming DD+ and for some DTS-HD on your HD DVD's.

I'm wondering what receivers are having this problem?

Mine is the Onkyo 705.

What's receiver are you using if you have the problem?

Pioneer Elite 92

Pioneer 9120TXH

Ok, I was thinking it was only Onkyo's. This is definitely an LG issue.

Ok, I was thinking it was only Onkyo's. This is definitely an LG issue.

Maybe not solely the LG's fault as I have a Denon and have had none of the issues mentioned with bitstreaming any HD codecs (the DTS bomb is an example of a problem that would exhibit itself with certain hardware combinations). However it could just be that some AVR's are more tolerant of the LG than others.

Ok, I was thinking it was only Onkyo's. This is definitely an LG issue.

Maybe not solely the LG's fault as I have a Denon and have had none of the issues mentioned with bitstreaming any HD codecs (the DTS bomb is an example of a problem that would exhibit itself with certain hardware combinations).

Agreed. I have an Onkyo 705 receiver and have watched over 30 HD DVD's with DD+ and have never once had the issue. So, I'm not saying that it's not an issue with the BH200 (I suspect it might be), I just don't think we can say with 100% certainity that it is.

Anyone out there had the issue with a receiver other than Pioneer and Onkyo?

-C.

Onkyo 605. But only with a couple of HD DVDs.

My Denon 4308 is working perfectly fine with the BH-200 bitstream feed :)

Add Marantz SR7002 to the list.

Add Marantz SR7002 to the list.

Add it to the HAS the issue list or add it to the DOES NOT have the issue list?

-C.

Same problem when you bistream DD+ on the TX-SR805 as well.

Add it to the HAS the issue list or add it to the DOES NOT have the issue list?

-C.

Sorry ... absolutely has the issue!

My Denon 4308 is working perfectly fine with the BH-200 bitstream feed :)

100% agree :cool:
Denon 4308 and BH200 are the perfect combination.

Pioneer 9120TXH

Picked this up for my parents and was setting it up at home (may parent only have dial-up) and tested 3 HD DVDs and all 3 gave me buzzing with pass through two were TrueHD ONE was DD+. Alpha Dog gives buzzing with all warning screens and company logo videos but the TrueHD works. Shooter (the DD+) Gives the Paramount logo with the chirping, then goes to inoperable menus. Twister Chirps all the way to functional menus but there is just chirping for in place of the TrueHD track.

PCM multichannel clears up these issues completely.

However, if you play around with the player sampling rates you should notice that certain aspects work again (as in set it to 192 kbps). So what I surmise from this is that bitstreaming sampling rates are just no fast enough to allow for a proper signal to be passed. I don't know which has the issue the receiver of the player but since other receivers are having this issue (clearly far less pronounced than me since I tried TrueHD discs and had issues and not just DD+) I would suspect it is the player. Since many of the companies mentioned aren't known for their shoddy manufacturing.

just my two utterly useless cents (since I can't give anyone a cure)

I dont know what you are referring to but I just got my lg bh200 last night and I have it hooked up to my old Samsung HTiB with optical audio out and every time it goes from one logo change, frame shift or sometimes chapter skips I hear this sharp quick buzz before the sound comes in again. I thought it might be that my old HTiB couldnt handle the sound or something. However, its DD+ 5.1 and DTS, DTS-ES etc... compatible.

I cant describe the sound that comes...

So for fun I contacted LG and they said take it to the closest LG service centre.

So for fun I contacted LG and they said take it to the closest LG service centre.


That seems to be the answer for any problem when you call LG.

I have an Onkyo 905 latest firmware and the BH-200 latest driver and firmware. No issues with HD DVD Top Gun in Pass Thru Bitstream or with PCM Multichannel... tried all three tracks (the True HD, DD+, DTS) all worked fine either way. obviously using HDMI cables only.

by the way my sampling rate is set to 192kbps since the 905 can handle that rate. although the tracks on the HD DVD I have seen all seem to be 48kbps

I have an Onkyo 875 with updated DSP's version 1.05 firmware and BH200 with latest firmware and driver. I have had no problems with any DD+ HDDVD that I have tried, and I have tried many. I have my sampling rate set to 192kbps. And of course using only HDMI Cable.:)

Just a bit of side information, I use a really old external DD/DTS decoder (Technics SH-AC500D) with an old Onkyo receiver TX SV-828, and connect audio using Optical cable from a Toshiba HD-XA2.

I experience this motorboat sound on certain titles in certain places, seems to be when using TrueHD track (downconverted to dts then output over optical). I think I have it set to bitstream in the XA2 setup. It tends to happen during low volume segments, people talking. One example is Superman Returns, when Lex is on his ship in the ocean near start of movie, and he is talking to the dumb woman about being in prison (Listen for him to talk about something being "in your pocket"). It's easy to find just chapter search till you see the ship out on the ocean, and watch for 2 minutes. My old dolby decoder obviously can't do truehd, and bitstream was always the proper choice to get 5.1 over optical from a TrueHD track. I've always attributed the issue to my decoder not being able to handle the higher bitrates. Is this a correct assumption? If so it would point to the receiver possibly. Or it could be the downconversion process from TrueHD to optical just isn't perfect. Would be nice if someone from Toshiba/Onkyo could explain whats really happening when we hear that issue.

When you guys have this issue, are any of you using hdmi for audio? Or does BH200 have to downconvert everything and output via optical?

Picked this up for my parents and was setting it up at home (may parent only have dial-up) and tested 3 HD DVDs and all 3 gave me buzzing with pass through two were TrueHD ONE was DD+. Alpha Dog gives buzzing with all warning screens and company logo videos but the TrueHD works. Shooter (the DD+) Gives the Paramount logo with the chirping, then goes to inoperable menus. Twister Chirps all the way to functional menus but there is just chirping for in place of the TrueHD track.

PCM multichannel clears up these issues completely.

However, if you play around with the player sampling rates you should notice that certain aspects work again (as in set it to 192 kbps). So what I surmise from this is that bitstreaming sampling rates are just no fast enough to allow for a proper signal to be passed. I don't know which has the issue the receiver of the player but since other receivers are having this issue (clearly far less pronounced than me since I tried TrueHD discs and had issues and not just DD+) I would suspect it is the player. Since many of the companies mentioned aren't known for their shoddy manufacturing.

just my two utterly useless cents (since I can't give anyone a cure)

SO are you saying that you HAVE the sound issue when you set the sampling rate lower then 192 kbps? and you do NOT have the issue with 192 kpbs?

so the solution is just adjust your sampling rate to 192 kpbs? even if you receiver doesnt support the higher rate I have yet to see a 192 kbps DD+ track on a HD DVD or BR DVD

SO are you saying that you HAVE the sound issue when you set the sampling rate lower then 192 kbps? and you do NOT have the issue with 192 kpbs?

so the solution is just adjust your sampling rate to 192 kpbs? even if you receiver doesnt support the higher rate I have yet to see a 192 kbps DD+ track on a HD DVD or BR DVD

No it does not clear up issues completely on any of the discs I tried. There are always sound issues and even some video issues ... like with Shooter. All discs had issues with studio intros and shooter had no sound at all. The only way they played at all ... which is not a big deal with me ... is PCM Multi-channel. It would be nice if I could both bitstreaming as it puts my receiver to better use ... in theory.

No it does not clear up issues completely on any of the discs I tried. There are always sound issues and even some video issues ... like with Shooter. All discs had issues with studio intros and shooter had no sound at all. The only way they played at all ... which is not a big deal with me ... is PCM Multi-channel. It would be nice if I could both bitstreaming as it puts my receiver to better use ... in theory.

What receiver do you have?

I experience this motorboat sound on certain titles in certain places, seems to be when using TrueHD track (downconverted to dts then output over optical).

I'm confused...

Is this a needed step to get the DTS HD track out of the optical port? Because the DTS-HD track, like all DTS tracks, is built off the core DTS track, with enhancement layers above and beyond that. If the player would just pass the core out the optical (which I belive it should) there would be no need for you to need to have the player do the "downconvert to DTS". Or does downcovert to DTS just mean "send the core track"?

What receiver do you have?

Pioneer 9120TXH

Pioneer 9120TXH, ive put in a couple hddvds and im getting the motorboating sounds as well....hd audio though works fine, and my bluray movies work proplerly too:confused:

Denon 988/2808 here....

No issues with DD+ so far, have watched 5 films over HDMI/Bitstream.
I have used both april and June FW, and 701 and 702 drivers..

I have listened for that "helicopter noise" in EVERY format, and have not heard it once.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue, just that I haven't heard it.......

And don't want to!!

As far as I can tell (based on who has and doesn't have the problem and which receiver they are using), it does not seem occur with Denon receivers for some reason...

Just trying to do some troubleshooting here. Along with myself, there are others who are experiencing the "helicopter" or "lawnmower" sound when bitstreaming DD+ and for some DTS-HD on your HD DVD's.

I'm wondering what receivers are having this problem?

Mine is the Onkyo 705.

What's receiver are you using if you have the problem?

Add me to the list...got the BH200 yesterday. Did the latest firmware update and the driver update courtesy of "bradavon" thank you.

My set up is A/V Pio VSX92TXH and TV Sammy PN58A650. The BH200 is connected to the Pio through HDMI in, and Pio is HDMI out to the Sammy.

I don't have any Blu Ray movies but have a dozen HD DVD's so I set the BH200 to primary pass through and SURPRISE SURPRISE:rolleyes: I get the "helicopter" "lawnmower" sounds. I tried three different HD DVD's
bourne identity DD+, 300- Dolby TrueHD and Batman Begins- Dolby TrueHD.

If I set it to PMC Multi-Ch no problems at all....good sound. I have a 5.1 setup

I am at a loss......I really want to see those codes light up on my reciever !!!
Does anyone have any suggestions or is it a lost cause !!!
Please advise.............

Just trying to do some troubleshooting here. Along with myself, there are others who are experiencing the "helicopter" or "lawnmower" sound when bitstreaming DD+ and for some DTS-HD on your HD DVD's.

I'm wondering what receivers are having this problem?

Mine is the Onkyo 705.

What's receiver are you using if you have the problem?

Add me to the list...got the BH200 yesterday. Did the latest firmware update and the driver update courtesy of "bradavon" thank you.

My set up is A/V Pio VSX92TXH and TV Sammy PN58A650. The BH200 is connected to the Pio through HDMI in, and Pio is HDMI out to the Sammy.

I don't have any Blu Ray movies but have a dozen HD DVD's so I set the BH200 to primary pass through and SURPRISE SURPRISE:rolleyes: I get the "helicopter" "lawnmower" sounds. I tried three different HD DVD's
bourne identity DD+, 300- Dolby TrueHD and Batman Begins- Dolby TrueHD.

If I set it to PMC Multi-Ch no problems at all....good sound. I have a 5.1 setup

I am at a loss......I really want to see those codes light up on my reciever !!!
Does anyone have any suggestions or is it a lost cause !!!
Please advise.............

I get the "helicopter" "lawnmower" sounds. I tried three different HD DVD's
bourne identity DD+, 300- Dolby TrueHD and Batman Begins- Dolby TrueHD.

If I set it to PMC Multi-Ch no problems at all....good sound. I have a 5.1 setup


Last night after I posted I played around a little more, and found out that for some HD DVD's the default audio setting is DD+ and you have to go into the features and manually select Dolby TrueHD, once I did that :):) my reciever lit up with TrueHD:D.
Just re-reading some posts I am concluding that HD DVD's that only have DD+
are the ones that cannot be bitstreamed "by some Recievers"

My question is........assuming you have a HD DVD with both DD+ and Dolby TrueHD. When you first load the disk is there any way to default the disk to select Dolby TrueHD instead of DD+ this way you avoid the "lawnmower" noise right from the start

The other option .......
is to first select PMC multichannel in the Player's setup, load the disk (this avoids the "lawnmower" noise, and when the movie starts switch the audio selection to Dolby TrueHD by using the audio button on the remote,then going back to the setup and switching PMC multi to Pass thru.

I guess the question is....... when the movie is playing or is in pause mode is it possible to get to the setup menu make the switch from PMC multi to direct pass thru and restart the movie ?????? without having to restart the disk ?

I know....... this may seem like a lot of work to get bitstream but it would just make me feel better to know there is a workaround.......and that I am getting full use from my expensive A/V reciever

Also I will be buying a lot of HD DVD's in the comming weeks

Any opinions.....ideas or thoughts are very welcome

My question is........assuming you have a HD DVD with both DD+ and Dolby TrueHD. When you first load the disk is there any way to default the disk to select Dolby TrueHD instead of DD+ this way you avoid the "lawnmower" noise right from the start



Not if you want to bitstream, there's no way to avoid it.

I'm not sure how it is with Pioneer, but i've heard rumor that for Onkyo's there's a firmware update for the receiver to recognize the DD+ signal, instead of mistaking it for stereo PCM which causes the"helicopter" sound.

Not if you want to bitstream, there's no way to avoid it.

I'm not sure how it is with Pioneer, but i've heard rumor that for Onkyo's there's a firmware update for the receiver to recognize the DD+ signal, instead of mistaking it for stereo PCM which causes the"helicopter" sound.

Interesting......I wonder what it would take for Pioneer to put out a firmware update. Does it have to be a lot of people complaining or is there a mechanism by which companies decide what issues to address??? Though HD DVD is dead DD+ is not going away, so they may be interested in addressing this. I could e-mail and call Pioneer CS....but will it help??
People with experience in these matters please chime in……….

Interesting......I wonder what it would take for Pioneer to put out a firmware update. Does it have to be a lot of people complaining or is there a mechanism by which companies decide what issues to address??? Though HD DVD is dead DD+ is not going away, so they may be interested in addressing this. I could e-mail and call Pioneer CS....but will it help??
People with experience in these matters please chime in……….

Why should Pioneer fix the problem that is not theirs. I have Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH receiver connected to my Samsung BD-UP5000 and never have any problem with my 50+ HD DVDs using bitstream and DD+. It's clearly a problem particular to LG player, not Pioneer.

I don't think i've ever read of anyone with a Denon having this problem?

Maybe Denon is more forgiving but it does not mean LG BH200 doesn't have problem. Unless you can find another BD or HD bitstream player has the same issue with non-Denon AVRs, we can safely assume it is the problem with LG. The only players that plays HD DVD and also bitstreams audio are LG BH200, Sammy 5000, Toshiba XA2 and A35. So far, BH200 is the only one has problem bitstream DD+ as far as I know.

I have Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH receiver connected to my Samsung BD-UP5000 and never have any problem with my 50+ HD DVDs using bitstream and DD+. It's clearly a problem particular to LG player, not Pioneer.

Foxbat how would you rate the BD-UP5000......the reason I ask is because we share the same reciever and all the DVD's I own are HD DVD's, So it's kinda important that I am able to bitstream DD+ etc...
I'm not really interested in the hacks......all I care about is PQ for HD DVD's SD's and the ocassional BD that I may rent from netflix

I still have a small window to return the BH200 to BB.....and get the sammy
So I just wanted your thoughts......

Also are their any issues BD-UP5000 has with the 92 ??

No issue what so ever as far as bitstream audio concerns (except for one HD DVD disc: Pans Labryth DTS-HD MA which believed to be either authoring issue or compatibility on 5k that cause pops on all AVRs). If PQ is your primary goal and region hacks are not, 5K is the best choice. Its Reon video processor is above Qdeo used in LG for SD DVD playback. However, two things you need to consider before you return your BH 200:

1. Sammy's QA is non-existent. Certain batch of 5k is broken out of box (can't play fox BDs). You have to send them back to Sammy for repair.
2. Make sure your local store still has 5k in stock. It's long gone in most BBs and CCs.

I don't have a 5K to compare SD video quality, but I have seen other folks say that the difference isn't that great.
The 200 QDEO produces a VG picture, it's no chump.
Does the Reon in the 5K allow adjustments to the picture?

It passes ALL the tests thrown at it, I believe that I've read that it does so better than the Reon as well- maybe I'm wrong(cuz I really don't care about the 5K- I don't own one), and if I misread, and I'm wrong that's fine, because it won't be the first time, nor the last.

Neither player is perfect, but considering what they do, I think these players are the best bargain out there at the $ they can be had for.

"Supposedly" the 200 can be made 2.0 compliant, I personally don't care about that either, and I'll believe that when it actually happens, instead of an email from a CSR saying that they are working on firmware to enable it.

BTW- I THOUGHT I read(in this forum somewhere) that Pioneer AVRS have the most "Helicopter" noise issues with the 200, again maybe I am wrong.

My Denon 988 still hasn't had this issue for some reason, and I'm not sorry about that....

This isn't a thread to discuss 5K vs BH200 SD PQ. The topic has been beaten to death. This is about the 'Helicopter' noise with DD+ bitstream on non-Denon AVRs. It's an issue unique to LG, not Sammy. Some AVR Brand may be more suspectible than others but make no mistake, it's not the AVR to blame. If LG outputs bitstream properly, like 5k does, all AVRs will play them back w/o issues. 5K does not suffer from such problem although it has its own set of other problems.

This isn't a thread to discuss 5K vs BH200 SD PQ. The topic has been beaten to death. This is about the 'Helicopter' noise with DD+ bitstream on non-Denon AVRs. It's an issue unique to LG, not Sammy. Some AVR Brand may be more suspectible than others but make no mistake, it's not the AVR to blame. If LG outputs bitstream properly, like 5k does, all AVRs will play them back w/o issues. 5K does not suffer from such problem although it has its own set of other problems.

YOU brought up the PQ of the 5K vs 200, I just added the info that is relevant to that piece of info.

I NEVER said it wasn't some weird issue with the 200, only that I have NOT heard it, and haven't seen anyone else that has a Denon say they have either.

I don't know what it is, I wish that they would at least look into it, because it does seem to be the 200.
I tell you one thing, I would be hammering them constantly if I were having that problem.

YOU brought up the PQ of the 5K vs 200, I just added the info that is relevant to that piece of info.

I was merely answering the questions Third World asked because he can't watch any HD DVDs because of this issue on his BH200 and Pioneer Elite 92 AVR. Regardless how good the PQ BH200 offers, he can't enjoy it w/o the sound. Besides, there are quite a few posts from owners who owned both and preferred 5K PQ slightly.

OK

Let's move on.

1. Sammy's QA is non-existent. Certain batch of 5k is broken out of box (can't play fox BDs). You have to send them back to Sammy for repair.
2. Make sure your local store still has 5k in stock. It's long gone in most BBs and CCs.

Thank you for the advise......I went to BB last night to see if I could find any sammy's..........they were all gone, I could have sworn I saw a few just days ago !!!!!! Anyway while I was there I noticed the BH200 that I had bought a few days ago for $499.00 was marked down to $399.00, so I got a price match and 10% of the difference refunded to my card:D:D

And you also make a good point about the support, I think LG may be a little more comitted to it than sammy.....from what I see.
So I'm going to hang on to my BH200 and try the Customer Service rout to try to find a solution to this "lawnmower" issue hopefully there are more of us out there who want to take up this issue with LG......again thank you for taking the time to answer my questions

I get the "motorboating" or "helicopter" noise with my BH200 connected to my Marantz AV8003 Processor.

I did not have this problem with my Integra DTC-9.8 Processor.

Is there a way to roll back the driver to 0701? Seems that maybe that driver doesn't have the same problem.

This motorboating thing is likely to really grow exponentially now that this player is only $339 at BestBuy.

LG, help us out here! I don't want to take this puppy back, but I need it bitstream all codecs properly!

I have the 620 firmware with a flashed Onkyo 805 for the DTS fix and on rare occasion (before I changed to 192 on the sounds bitrate) I noticed the helicoper issue. I just popped the disk out and back in and then it would work, odd. I then changed to 192 and tried it and it seems to be ok. I think another poster said it was a handshake issue and this would make sense. My understanding is that HDMI is not really great at error correction, check google for this.

Davcole,

Did you update your DSPs to fix the "bitstream bomb" problem?



I don't think i've ever read of anyone with a Denon having this problem?

Davcole,

Did you update your DSPs to fix the "bitstream bomb" problem?

I tried it once and it didn't work so i'm hesitant to again. I'm thinking of getting the firmware update by sending the receiver in.

Tell me, did you have the problems before and it was solved by the DSP update?

No, I never had any problems with it, I just upgraded it so that I would never encounter "the bomb", which has been known to destroy speakers.

I just mentioned it to try to determine the differences between our setups (since we both have the 705).

I upgraded my 705 the minute I brought it home from the store, so I never had the chance to experience the helicopter noise.

That being said, that could be the key difference here... the DSPs deal with audio decoding, and you're reporting an audio decoding problem.


I tried it once and it didn't work so i'm hesitant to again. I'm thinking of getting the firmware update by sending the receiver in.

Tell me, did you have the problems before and it was solved by the DSP update?

I was all excited having just bought a BH200 for ~$315 plus tax from Best Buy...then I read this thread.

Can someone help me out? I'm not totally sure that "bitstreaming" is what I do. I have an Onkyo 604, which can't decode DTS-HD, TrueHD, so I always just decode them through my XA2 or my PS3. I'm not sure if it's bitstreaming but I just see "Multich" or something like that on my Onkyo screen. If I were to replace those two with the BH200, will I be susceptible to the problems mentioned in this thread? I really don't want to rearrange everything and especially reconfigure the Harmony remote if it's not going to be worth it in the end. I can always return the BH200.

Also, I would be selling the XA2 if this works out, and I don't want to do that hastily, since it is a fine player. I figure I have an A35 to use instead, and I can get more for the XA2.

Thanks for any help/advice you can give!

Sounds like you are setup to output PCM(Decoded by the player) with those players, hence the MultiCh. in

Set the 200 to PCM and you'll be fine, it will Decode the codecs in the player, and output as MultiCH., but you will NOT get DTS-HR/ or DTS-MA, as the 200 does NOT decode those 2 internally, I believe you will get the DTS Core.

It will Bitstream(Listed as Passthrough in the 200 menu) DD,DD+,DTS,TrueHD when set to Pass Through.

Maybe I'm off on this, but I think that's the deal here.

Sounds like you are setup to output PCM(Decoded by the player) with those players, hence the MultiCh. in

Set the 200 to PCM and you'll be fine, it will Decode the codecs in the player, and output as MultiCH., but you will NOT get DTS-HR/ or DTS-MA, as the 200 does NOT decode those 2 internally, I believe you will get the DTS Core.

It will Bitstream(Listed as Passthrough in the 200 menu) DD,DD+,DTS,TrueHD when set to Pass Through.

Maybe I'm off on this, but I think that's the deal here.

Thanks!

So you're saying I won't get DTS-HD with this player, but TrueHD and DD+ should work fine with the PCM? I really want to have DTS-HD as an option, and now that the PS3 can decode it, I'm not sure about what to do.

DTS core (from DTS MA) is just as good.

It does not internally decode DTS-HD or DTS-MA, it can only bistream them, and considering that your 604 doesn't decode DTS- HD or Master audio, you will not get them with this player and that AVR.

I don't know if the 200 will ever be capable of Internally decoding those codecs, I haven't heard one way or the other.
If DTS HD/MA is important to you, the ps3 can now, the Pioneer 51/05 have been SAID to be able (with a supposed Firmware update coming- who knows when), the Panny BD50 can, and the upcoming Sony 550 will be able to.

I believe the outrageously priced Denon 3800 can as well.....it should wash and wax my car once a week, and change my oil for a year for the cost of that thing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think that's right.

It does not internally decode DTS-HD or DTS-MA, it can only bistream them, and considering that your 604 doesn't decode DTS- HD or Master audio, you will not get them with this player and that AVR.

I don't know if the 200 will ever be capable of Internally decoding those codecs, I haven't heard one way or the other.
If DTS HD/MA is important to you, the ps3 can now, the Pioneer 51/05 have been SAID to be able (with a supposed Firmware update coming- who knows when), the Panny BD50 can, and the upcoming Sony 550 will be able to.

I believe the outrageously priced Denon 3800 can as well.....it should wash and wax my car once a week, and change my oil for a year for the cost of that thing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think that's right.

Should I be worried about DTS HD/MA? Gizmo above said "core" would be fine. I just don't want to downgrade my output just to simplify my setup and remove a game console. This decision is not easy.

No, I never had any problems with it, I just upgraded it so that I would never encounter "the bomb", which has been known to destroy speakers.

I just mentioned it to try to determine the differences between our setups (since we both have the 705).

I upgraded my 705 the minute I brought it home from the store, so I never had the chance to experience the helicopter noise.

That being said, that could be the key difference here... the DSPs deal with audio decoding, and you're reporting an audio decoding problem.

When you say you updated your 705, you mean your Onkyo receiver? I have a 705 and was not aware we could update it ourselves. Link?

Yep, I meant my Onkyo 705.

We can't update the main system firmware, but we can update the DSPs (and it's pretty simple).

Check out the following link (the 705 FAQ) and look for the answer to question 14A:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935808

Hope it helps.

If you have any questions, send me a PM.


When you say you updated your 705, you mean your Onkyo receiver? I have a 705 and was not aware we could update it ourselves. Link?

Yep, I meant my Onkyo 705.

We can't update the main system firmware, but we can update the DSPs (and it's pretty simple).

Check out the following link (the 705 FAQ) and look for the answer to question 14A:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935808

Hope it helps.

If you have any questions, send me a PM.

Thanks. Saw that after I posted. D'oh!

Does anyone know if the disc player connected HAS to be a CD player? I don't even HAVE a CD player anymore!

I used a DVD player (actually, it was a old DVD/VHS combo player).

The DSP update is actually a wav file, so make sure you burn it as an audio disc, and not a data disc.

Then you have to connect the player (DVD or whatever) to Optical Input #1 (has to be #1) via an optical/toslink cable.

It was very simple to do.

I think the reason they say to use a CD player is that many recent DVD/HD players have settings to apply some sort of conversion to audio (for example, the BH200 allows you to re-encode all audio to DTS.)

Re-encodes of the audio will alter the wav file data, and it won't work.

I've read of people that successfully did it with their XBOX 360.



Thanks. Saw that after I posted. D'oh!

Does anyone know if the disc player connected HAS to be a CD player? I don't even HAVE a CD player anymore!

I used a DVD player (actually, it was a old DVD/VHS combo player).

The DSP update is actually a wav file, so make sure you burn it as an audio disc, and not a data disc.

Then you have to connect the player (DVD or whatever) to Optical Input #1 (has to be #1) via an optical/toslink cable.

It was very simple to do.

I think the reason they say to use a CD player is that many recent DVD/HD players have settings to apply some sort of conversion to audio (for example, the BH200 allows you to re-encode all audio to DTS.)

Re-encodes of the audio will alter the wav file data, and it won't work.

I've read of people that successfully did it with their XBOX 360.

Hmmm . . . my HTPC is connected via TOSLINK . . . dare I risk the update by directly playing the WAV file?

I would think that would work nicely.

From what I've read, it will either work 100%, or the Onkyo 705 won't even start the upgrade process. The steps that you perform on the Onkyo essentially put it into a "listening for firmware upgrade" mode. Once it's "listening", you push play on the CD player (or in your case, start playing the wav file).

If the users DVD player does any re-coding of the audio, it will modify the header information in the file, and the Onkyo will not accept it.

Pretty fool proof (which is why they let end users do it themself.)


Hmmm . . . my HTPC is connected via TOSLINK . . . dare I risk the update by directly playing the WAV file?

I would think that would work nicely.

From what I've read, it will either work 100%, or the Onkyo 705 won't even start the upgrade process. The steps that you perform on the Onkyo essentially put it into a "listening for firmware upgrade" mode. Once it's "listening", you push play on the CD player (or in your case, start playing the wav file).

If the users DVD player does any re-coding of the audio, it will modify the header information in the file, and the Onkyo will not accept it.

Pretty fool proof (which is why they let end users do it themself.)

I will attempt over the weekend and report back . . .

Just hooked up my new LG BH200. February build, I updated it with the April firmware (not the June one). Audio is optical out to a Pioneer VSX-14 receiver (which does not have HDMI inputs). Threw a regular DVD in, an HD-DVD, and a Blu Ray DVD, and spot-checked all three. I am not hearing anything resembling a helicopter noise, lawnmower noise, boat noise, etc. When does that tend to occur, so I can try to replicate? (either that or I should just assume I don't have the problem and don't worry about it!)

Just hooked up my new LG BH200. February build, I updated it with the April firmware (not the June one). Audio is optical out to a Pioneer VSX-14 receiver (which does not have HDMI inputs). Threw a regular DVD in, an HD-DVD, and a Blu Ray DVD, and spot-checked all three. I am not hearing anything resembling a helicopter noise, lawnmower noise, boat noise, etc. When does that tend to occur, so I can try to replicate? (either that or I should just assume I don't have the problem and don't worry about it!)

I had this problem with my HD DVD copy of Pan's Labyrinth which has a DTS MA soundtrack. However, it played fine on my second attempt.

Just hooked up my new LG BH200. February build, I updated it with the April firmware (not the June one). Audio is optical out to a Pioneer VSX-14 receiver (which does not have HDMI inputs). Threw a regular DVD in, an HD-DVD, and a Blu Ray DVD, and spot-checked all three. I am not hearing anything resembling a helicopter noise, lawnmower noise, boat noise, etc. When does that tend to occur, so I can try to replicate? (either that or I should just assume I don't have the problem and don't worry about it!)

LOL. You need an HDMI 1.3 receiver that support latest HD codecs and set BH200 to bitstream. It only happens with DD+.

Discovered something new yesterday.

I've stated in the past about problems with the DD+ and the DTS on an HD DVD having the same motorboat issue with my Onkyo 705. I just figured it was all HD DVD related.

However when I was watching my STARGATE BD this weekend, I listened to the DTS HR track and it had the same problem with the helicopter sound, mistaking the signal for a PCM signal. Now all I did was turn the receiver off/on and it went away, but this was the first it happened on a BD.

So in sum i've had the problem on HD DVD with DD+ and DTS and now on a BD with DTS HR. I have never had a problem with legacy DD, TRUEHD or DTSMA.

I played 2001: A Space Odyssey HD DVD yesterday, and it defaulted to the DD+ track. My BH200 is bitstreaming to my Onkyo 606. The audio was fine - no helicopter noise stuff. I switched over to the TrueHD track, and it sounded pretty well the same - I didn't do a serious comparison, I just happened to notice the DD+ lit up on the receiver.

Just a reference point - I guess the newer Onkyo's have firmware that handles whatever isn't quite right from the BH200, or maybe the way 2001:ASO is encoded for DD+ it isn't an issue.

shinksma

So in sum i've had the problem on HD DVD with DD+ and DTS and now on a BD with DTS HR. I have never had a problem with legacy DD, TRUEHD or DTSMA.

It is definitely a DTS issue, not an HD DVD issue. I suspect something about the way the BH200 outputs simply confuses the Onkyos. Incidentally, I have had similar issues (no sound or no center channel) with my two HD DVD players (A2 and XA2) as well. In all cases, restarting the receiver or everything usually fixed it. And the disc I had the motorboating with was DTS MA (Pan's Labyrinth).

It is definitely a DTS issue, not an HD DVD issue. I suspect something about the way the BH200 outputs simply confuses the Onkyos. Incidentally, I have had similar issues (no sound or no center channel) with my two HD DVD players (A2 and XA2) as well. In all cases, restarting the receiver or everything usually fixed it. And the disc I had the motorboating with was DTS MA (Pan's Labyrinth).

FWIW, I have an Onkyo 805, and this happens with my Tosh A35, and somewhat all too often. But it only seems to happen with DD+ HD DVD movies, though I think I had a regular DVD do it too. So it is not the LG having the problem. It *MIGHT* be an HDMI handshaking problem, as when I turn off the A35, or I turn off the 805, the problem is fixed.

Im not too knowledgeable on codecs or whatever... But I get that helicopter noise every time I skip a chapter, a menu starts etc... I look at my crap HTiB and I see that the noise occurs while the HTiB is figuring out if it is a Dolby Digital track.

Im not too knowledgeable on codecs or whatever... But I get that helicopter noise every time I skip a chapter, a menu starts etc... I look at my crap HTiB and I see that the noise occurs while the HTiB is figuring out if it is a Dolby Digital track.

Have you tried it using PCM (internal decode of DD, DD+, and DD THD)? If not, that might help. But for DTS HD and DTS HDMA, you will need to bitstream or maybe try that rencode DTS mode.

My old HTiB is pretty decent. It's able to do dolby digital 5.1 and DTS-ES etc... It does not have HDMI so I have toslink going into it. I set it at bitstream I think because that sounded the best. Like I go 5.1 from it. If I dont set it at bitstream I dont think its 5.1 because then I can change the sound to stuff like stereo, pro logic 2, cinema, matrix etc... If its at bitstream it just says dolby digital or DTS.

But I'll try and set it at PCM to see a difference. I dont really mind the noise, its just that at night or when i have people over and I skip a chapter or it goes to the next "screen" or menu I get a loud 2 second helicopter like rip and it gets really annoying. It happens because there is like a splitsecond when my HTiB is trying to detect if its getting a 5.1 signal or regular audio etc...

I plan to get a new receiver soon. Is there any receivers out there that are immune to this or is it internally an LG problem?

I plan to get a new receiver soon. Is there any receivers out there that are immune to this or is it internally an LG problem?

It was mentioned that the Denon's seems to work best with this player. And lately, the horror stories some have had with Onkyo (but with the XX5 series, not yet with the XX6 series receivers) might make you hessitate. But both Denon and Onkyo are top receivers at decent prices.

I have an Onkyo 705, and I've never experienced this problem.


It was mentioned that the Denon's seems to work best with this player. And lately, the horror stories some have had with Onkyo (but with the XX5 series, not yet with the XX6 series receivers) might make you hessitate. But both Denon and Onkyo are top receivers at decent prices.

I would think that would work nicely.

From what I've read, it will either work 100%, or the Onkyo 705 won't even start the upgrade process. The steps that you perform on the Onkyo essentially put it into a "listening for firmware upgrade" mode. Once it's "listening", you push play on the CD player (or in your case, start playing the wav file).

If the users DVD player does any re-coding of the audio, it will modify the header information in the file, and the Onkyo will not accept it.

Pretty fool proof (which is why they let end users do it themself.)

Well, updating from the PC did not work for me. The receiver says "Updating . . " and never changes it's display. Thought I borked it at first, but just had to reset the inputs. After this failed attempt, I burned a CD and tried 3 different DVD players with no success. I followed the instructions (burned audio CD, hooked optical cable to Optical Input 1, followed the button presses, etc.) but no joy. Really confused at this point. Going to try to re-burn the CD with Deepburner, but I can't figure out why the 705 won't take the update.

That's really strange. It's been a little while since I did mine (April), but it was very straightforward, and I don't remember hitting any "gotchas"...



Well, updating from the PC did not work for me. The receiver says "Updating . . " and never changes it's display. Thought I borked it at first, but just had to reset the inputs. After this failed attempt, I burned a CD and tried 3 different DVD players with no success. I followed the instructions (burned audio CD, hooked optical cable to Optical Input 1, followed the button presses, etc.) but no joy. Really confused at this point. Going to try to re-burn the CD with Deepburner, but I can't figure out why the 705 won't take the update.

Well, updating from the PC did not work for me. The receiver says "Updating . . " and never changes it's display. Thought I borked it at first, but just had to reset the inputs. After this failed attempt, I burned a CD and tried 3 different DVD players with no success. I followed the instructions (burned audio CD, hooked optical cable to Optical Input 1, followed the button presses, etc.) but no joy. Really confused at this point. Going to try to re-burn the CD with Deepburner, but I can't figure out why the 705 won't take the update.

Do you hear noise when you are playing back the CD? It should sound like an old dial up modem or fax. If you are not hearing that, you are burning the CD wrong, probably as a data cd instead of audio. I am assuming you properly extracted the .wav file to make the audio CD. If you do not have a .wav file, you haven't 'unzipped' the file yet.

Do you have any plain old CD players with optical out? That is the best way.

Well, updating from the PC did not work for me. The receiver says "Updating . . " and never changes it's display. Thought I borked it at first, but just had to reset the inputs. After this failed attempt, I burned a CD and tried 3 different DVD players with no success. I followed the instructions (burned audio CD, hooked optical cable to Optical Input 1, followed the button presses, etc.) but no joy. Really confused at this point. Going to try to re-burn the CD with Deepburner, but I can't figure out why the 705 won't take the update.


I had the same problem. I went through several burns using two different brands of CD's, used three different programs to burn the cd's and tried 5 different dvd/cd players.

It ended up being the dvd/cd players. I got a cheap RCA dvd player from Meijer and it worked instantly.....go figure :)

It ended up being the dvd/cd players. I got a cheap RCA dvd player from Meijer and it worked instantly.....go figure :)
Mind sharing the model? I have tried 4 different players, my PC, reburned 3 times all to no avail. I can hear the audio when selecting the right input, but receiver still does not display "writing" at any time.

Mind sharing the model? I have tried 4 different players, my PC, reburned 3 times all to no avail. I can hear the audio when selecting the right input, but receiver still does not display "writing" at any time.

I had the same problems as you until I used this DVD player.

RCA Model Number: DRC285

I had the same problems as you until I used this DVD player.

RCA Model Number: DRC285

Well, could not find this exact model, but found an RCA DRC277 at Target and this worked immediately. I had to run through the process twice; for som reason the first DSP did not get updated the first time through. However, after the second pass, all three are up to date. No more gunshot sounds during playback of the DTS HD Master track on Pan's Labyrinth!!!

Thanks for the pointer, Merlin!

Well, could not find this exact model, but found an RCA DRC277 at Target and this worked immediately. I had to run through the process twice; for som reason the first DSP did not get updated the first time through. However, after the second pass, all three are up to date. No more gunshot sounds during playback of the DTS HD Master track on Pan's Labyrinth!!!

Thanks for the pointer, Merlin!

Glad it worked for you! :)

This thread should be renamed, because it's clear that there is something wrong with the bitstream capability of the player, and it affects more than just DD+---it's obvious that what is happening is that the player is trying to bitstream and/or mix in menu sounds when it isn't supposed to, which is why it always occurs when you move between chapters and RW/FW (any cases where the menu is brought up).

I am just afraid of the potential damage that this noise may do to my speakers at higher volumes, since there have been a few instances when my speakers played the noise at -10dB. The noise I get doesn't resemble any kind of helicopter or motorboat sound though...it sounds like exaggerated and high-pitched pink or white noise.

This thread should be renamed, because it's clear that there is something wrong with the bitstream capability of the player, and it affects more than just DD+---it's obvious that what is happening is that the player is trying to bitstream and/or mix in menu sounds when it isn't supposed to, which is why it always occurs when you move between chapters and RW/FW (any cases where the menu is brought up).

I am just afraid of the potential damage that this noise may do to my speakers at higher volumes, since there have been a few instances when my speakers played the noise at -10dB. The noise I get doesn't resemble any kind of helicopter or motorboat sound though...it sounds like exaggerated and high-pitched pink or white noise.

The issue is with the bitstreaming of DD+ and/or DTS-HR. Legacy (DD & DTS) and lossless (TrueHD & DTS-MA) bitstream fine, so the thread name is appropriate. Titles with DTS-HR are not nearly as common as DD+.

The issue you have is not the helicopter / motorboat issue we are talking about. You have another problem altogether...

The issue is with the bitstreaming of DD+ and/or DTS-HR. Legacy (DD & DTS) and lossless (TrueHD & DTS-MA) bitstream fine, so the thread name is appropriate. Titles with DTS-HR are not nearly as common as DD+.

The issue you have is not the helicopter / motorboat issue we are talking about. You have another problem altogether...

Well I guess I am not sure then, which problem it is that I have. But with my Onkyo 805 and while playing DD+ soundtracks on HD DVD movies (only), I see the Onkyo LCD screen go crazy for a few moments and then decide the signal it is getting through the HDMI port is now stereo when I unpause a movie and get a strange "chatter" or "modulating white noise" out of all my speakers. BUT!!! This happens with both my LG BH200 AND my Toshiba A35. So I DO NOT think this is specific to the LB200, but could be like what some are saying about other BD disks by certain studios = they mis-flag the audio, or it is a poor implementation, or could very well be an HDMI handshaking issue with Onkyo and certain other players when bitsreaming.

I just picked up a new Pioneer VSX-03TXH receiver, so will be testing that out shortly.

Ok, I now stand corrected! Went out and bought the new Pioneer VSX-03TXH, and it is a totally amazing receiver! I like it much better than my Onkyo 805 by far. BUT! Now I get this messed up sound out of every HD DVD movied I tried to play. The player is trying to send DTS HD or DD+ (Bone Collector), or DD+ (Transformers), and the Pioneer sees it coming in as regular stereo, and I get the static/hiss/helicopter noise non-stop. Tried both a Monoprice and a Monster HDMI cable, tried setting the source different (192>96>48), and none of that worked for bitstream. For the heck of it, I hooked up my Toshiba A35 - and it worked PERFECTLY!!!!!!

As much as I loved this BH200, I'd rather keep the Pioneer receiver (so as to sell the Onkyo), and so looks like the BH200 is going back unless LG can fix this??

Well I guess I am not sure then, which problem it is that I have. But with my Onkyo 805 and while playing DD+ soundtracks on HD DVD movies (only), I see the Onkyo LCD screen go crazy for a few moments and then decide the signal it is getting through the HDMI port is now stereo when I unpause a movie and get a strange "chatter" or "modulating white noise" out of all my speakers. BUT!!! This happens with both my LG BH200 AND my Toshiba A35. So I DO NOT think this is specific to the LB200, but could be like what some are saying about other BD disks by certain studios = they mis-flag the audio, or it is a poor implementation, or could very well be an HDMI handshaking issue with Onkyo and certain other players when bitsreaming.

I just picked up a new Pioneer VSX-03TXH receiver, so will be testing that out shortly.

No problems like that with my Onkyo 805. Have you done the DSP update and firmware update? I'm at firmware 1.08 and the latest DSP and it works perfect bitstreaming every movie so far.

Has anybody ever directly linked this thread to someone at LG?

I tested an LGBH200 with 0702 driver but firmware out of the box (March Build) and it bitstreams DD+ just fine! It will not bitstream TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, but it no problem with DD+.

Once updated to the latest firmware, TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio can be bitstreamed, but not DD+. I get that motorboating/helicoptering sound.

Obviously the "fix" for bitstreaming the high rez formats has caused there to be a problem with DD+. The challenge this poses is that almost every HD-DVD out has a DD+ track as default (even on menus) and you must select TrueHD. Some don't even have a TrueHD track.

This is fixable by firmware, LG just has to KNOW about it and FIX it!

This is otherwise an outstanding player.

C'mon LG, we need new firmware!

Has anybody ever directly linked this thread to someone at LG?

I tested an LGBH200 with 0702 driver but firmware out of the box (March Build) and it bitstreams DD+ just fine! It will not bitstream TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, but it no problem with DD+.

Once updated to the latest firmware, TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio can be bitstreamed, but not DD+. I get that motorboating/helicoptering sound.

Obviously the "fix" for bitstreaming the high rez formats has caused there to be a problem with DD+. The challenge this poses is that almost every HD-DVD out has a DD+ track as default (even on menus) and you must select TrueHD. Some don't even have a TrueHD track.

This is fixable by firmware, LG just has to KNOW about it and FIX it!

This is otherwise an outstanding player.

C'mon LG, we need new firmware!


As I mentioned, I'm not having this problem at all when combined with my Onkyo SR805. I suspect it is a receiver firmware issue because with LG's June firmware and the 0702 driver, my system is working perfect bitstreaming DD+, TrueHD, DTSHD Master, etc.

My Onkyo is updated to the latest across the board.

I recommend everyone check to see if their receivers are current. The DSP update (to eliminate the DTS HD Master 'bomb') for the Onkyo receivers may also be the reason why I don't have this problem with DD+.

No more problems with my Onkyo 705 since updating DSPs. I am definitely streaming TrueHD, DTS HD MA and DD+ . . . no shotgun, pops or motorboating.

As I mentioned, I'm not having this problem at all when combined with my Onkyo SR805. I suspect it is a receiver firmware issue because with LG's June firmware and the 0702 driver, my system is working perfect bitstreaming DD+, TrueHD, DTSHD Master, etc.

My Onkyo is updated to the latest across the board.

I recommend everyone check to see if their receivers are current. The DSP update (to eliminate the DTS HD Master 'bomb') for the Onkyo receivers may also be the reason why I don't have this problem with DD+.

Perhaps, but your Onk update won't fix my Marantz pre or Pioneer folks' receivers. :cool:

And since my pre released about two months ago, I'd say it's pretty current.

i tried Pioneer 9120 and 9130 AVR, both not working when BH200 bitstreaming DD+, tried the same disc on Sony S350, DD+ bitstreaming worked fine with Pioneer AVR :) still think LG caused this issue :rolleyes: and the phantom rear surround channel in LPCM 7.1 is annoying too, hopefully LG will fix both in next FW

i tried Pioneer 9120 and 9130 AVR, both not working when BH200 bitstreaming DD+, tried the same disc on Sony S350, DD+ bitstreaming worked fine with Pioneer AVR :) still think LG caused this issue :rolleyes: and the phantom rear surround channel in LPCM 7.1 is annoying too, hopefully LG will fix both in next FW

How could you try the same disk on the Sony? DD+ is an HD DVD soundtrack????

Anyway, concerning the Onkyo Bill, mine is a VERY early release, bought in 6/06. My FW loader version is 1.00. 1.01 is REQUIRED to be able to use a rig at home (if I even had one). I contacted Onkyo, and got an extremely uncaring phone call yesterday morning from them, no human sympathy at all for my dilemna, even though I was extremely patient and considerate when I talked to that man. I HAVE to send it over 3 states away, to their Colorado sevice center, and was told a MINIMUM of 15 days wait to have it fixed and returned. And if you have read the horor stories over on the 805 FW posts, you will see many have had to reship theirs back numerous times to finally get it done RIGHT. I have done the DSP update though, and I think that may have fixed the DTS bomb problem, but even after that, my 805 still would occasionally have the screwed up signal from the BH200 or A35 with DD+, just not as bad as the new Pioneer is doing now. But I'll tell you what - I will NOT give up this new Pioneer VSX-03TXH!!!! It is awesome. The sound is incredible, and I CAN tell the difference. It does everything I want it to, and more. And you know what???? The nearest Pioneer service center is only 15 or so miles away from me!

So now what to do with the LG? I really do like it, and these are now extremely rare to find! If I return it, might never find another one. But if I keep it past the 30 days and LG don't fix this issue, then I am sort of screwed (because I am NOT going to return the Pio and use the Onkyo ever again). At least for now, I can go back to using the PS3 (and will miss bitsreaming) for BD, the A35 for HD, and might even dust off my old Pio Elite 59AVi for DVD (many say this is still worth keeping, cost me $1500+ when new LOL).

Oh, and as far as the VSX-03TXH firmware, this is a brand new unit, just came out. So doubt it may need, or even have, a new FW for it.

Oh, another thought - this new VSX-03TXH is the only Pioneer model so far, that has some new things called "HDMI Jitter Reduction". Not sure exactly what it does, and don't see it in any of the menus for the AVR. But I wonder, if maybe it could be the cause of this?

How could you try the same disk on the Sony? DD+ is an HD DVD soundtrack????


I luckily own the Dolby Demo Blu-ray disc, having all kinds of 5.1, 7.1 DD+ and THD. :)

i tried Pioneer 9120 and 9130 AVR, both not working when BH200 bitstreaming DD+, tried the same disc on Sony S350, DD+ bitstreaming worked fine with Pioneer AVR :) still think LG caused this issue :rolleyes: and the phantom rear surround channel in LPCM 7.1 is annoying too, hopefully LG will fix both in next FW

Amen to that, I hate when those phantom rear channels come in and you know there is no sound coming out of them!

Perhaps, but your Onk update won't fix my Marantz pre or Pioneer folks' receivers. :cool:

And since my pre released about two months ago, I'd say it's pretty current.

I'm in the same boat as you, love the 8003, but the DD+ issue is killing me. Wonder if Marantz will release some sort of firmware to update it. Tough to know whether the issue lies with Marantz or LG.

I'm in the same boat as you, love the 8003, but the DD+ issue is killing me. Wonder if Marantz will release some sort of firmware to update it. Tough to know whether the issue lies with Marantz or LG.

Sure looks like it is an LG issue, since it bitstreams DD+ just fine with older (pre April) firmware, but won't do it with April-Current firmware.

Something they did broke DD+ bitstreaming. They gave TrueHD decoding and DTS-MA bitstreaming, but broke DD+ for certain receivers/pre-pros.

Annoying for sure, but if LG knows about it, it seems like it should be an easy fix.

I've never been all that happy with my Marantz SR7002 so I made the move to a Denon AVR-2809CI and the DD+ bitstreaming issue does not exist. I agree it's a BH200 problem (primarily) but I suspect something in the handshake with the AVR seems to be causing the problem because it only affects certain receivers.

My SR7002 is supposed to be sent away to upgrade the firmware ... interested to see whether that resolves the issue with that AVR.

Well, the BAD NEWS from Pioneer customer service concerning the BH200 and the static :(

There is no firmware updates available for the Receiver. When firmware updates become available they can only be installed by a service technician. Since HD DVD is a dead format I don't believe that we would look for a way to correct problems with this formats.

Thank You,
David
Customer Service Representative


So I just sent this in to LG in the hopes they might be able to fix this, or offer a solution.

Well, the BAD NEWS from Pioneer customer service concerning the BH200 and the static :(



So I just sent this in to LG in the hopes they might be able to fix this, or offer a solution.

If Pioneer gave me that much attitude IN WRITING, I would shove that receiver back down their throats (or the other end depending on how I felt). Hopefully, the issue gets resolved.

Interesting and dissappointing response from Pioneer. They may not want to fix problems with HD DVD, but they should fix problems with DD+...unless they are saying that bitstreaming DD+ off a Blu-ray title works flawlessly :rolleyes:.

Interesting and dissappointing response from Pioneer. They may not want to fix problems with HD DVD, but they should fix problems with DD+...unless they are saying that bitstreaming DD+ off a Blu-ray title works flawlessly :rolleyes:.

I am not mad at Pioneer, I got more of a reply back from them than I have from Onkyo. And the nearest Pio center is only about 15 minutes away from me - Onkyo is around 3+ states away.

Also, I don't think BD discs use DD+ at all. Every BD movie I have is either DD THD, DTS HD, DTS HDMA, or PCM. It is only the HD DVD movies that 95% use DD+ for audio. And so far not one single BD movie has given me a problem with the Pioneer receiver. not a one - no matter with the BH200 or the PS3. And the DD+ bitstreams just fine from the Toshiba A35 to the VSC-03TXH. So the problem must be with how the BH200 processes/delivers the HD DVD audio through its HDMI port.

And the problem is not with the Pio receiver, though it appears it is more sensitive than the Onkyo 805 is, in how the BH200 delivers HD DVD audio via HDMI compared with the Toshiba A35.

Here is what I had posted on the other section:

In a nutshell:

Receiver: Onkyo 805
My Toshibas A35 HD DVD (only) would occasionaly give a possible HDMI handshake issue during pause/play/chapter change, whenever the audio would stop being sent over the HDMI and then restart when the video would begin playing again, the 805 would gets its signals crossed and the 805's display would flash a number of times, and then think it was now receiving a stereo signal and give the loud modulating static noise over my speakers.

Same thing has happened only a few times with the 805 during the short time I have had the BH200.

With BD, not a single problem with the BH200, PS3, S350, 2550, etc

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-03TXH
Toshiba A35 plays perfectly. So far, but only limited testing as I just put it back on the rack now, this has not yet happened.

With the BH200, through bitstream (never tried the PCM, why should I anyway, I did not get it to use PCM, sorry), EVERY HD DVD movie has the loud static noise, right from the start, right from the first audio/video screen to show up, I get the static - even before I get to the menu screen, and thus way before the movie even begins to play. I can even play a BD movie first, which plays and sounds just perfect, and then insert an HD DVD movie, and the static will begin.

As during this time there is no audio signal going out through the HDMI port, this must be some sort of HD DVD audio handshaking problem. As this does happen occasionally with the 805, it does not mean it is the new Pio receiver, it just means the Pio is more sensitive to the probem than the Onkyo. But as the A35 so far plays just fine, then it must be more exagerated by the way the BH200 handles the HD DVD audio processing.

I got off the phone with LG support just awhile ago. The guy I talked to didn't know a BD or HD DVD from a VHS tape!!!!! I tried to explain to him what was going on, and it was like talking to a dead log. He would not let me talk to an engineer, and only suggested that I take it to an LG autorized repair center, which luckily one is nearby. But it is just some Joe Schmoe's TV/VCR repair shop!! And as he said I had the latest FW and driver, and there is no new (or beta) FW that *he* could look up, it looks like I will sadly have to return this unit back to BB. I really want to keep it, as it would do the work of THREE components (BD, HD, and DVD), and had the possibility to do all three very good, but I cannot afford to have it just laying around unused if it don't work with the new Pio receiver. And I do not want to go back to the Onkyo 805, I want to be rid of them.

Well, the BAD NEWS from Pioneer customer service concerning the BH200 and the static :(



So I just sent this in to LG in the hopes they might be able to fix this, or offer a solution.

well, I suspect it's more a LG issue than Pioneer, read somewhere on AVS that older f/w has no DD+ bitstreaming issue before LG enable bitsreaming on lossless formats, somehow LG screwed up lossy ones :mad:

as I mentioned before, I had a Dolby demo BD disc, DD+ 5.1/7.1 bitstreaming is flawless from Sony 350, but not from BH200 :(

I do hope LG will fix this and other remaining issues !

well, I suspect it's more a LG issue than Pioneer, read somewhere on AVS that older f/w has no DD+ bitstreaming issue before LG enable bitsreaming on lossless formats, somehow LG screwed up lossy ones :mad:

as I mentioned before, I had a Dolby demo BD disc, DD+ 5.1/7.1 bitstreaming is flawless from Sony 350, but not from BH200 :(

I do hope LG will fix this and other remaining issues !

I think I have to tend to agree with you, in light of what you just mentioned!

If they had played with the bitstream, then they could most likely have messed up the "flags" sent during HDMI handshaking with the receiver. Because basicly (or correct me if I am wrong????), the receiver can only act upon what type of signal/flag the PLAYER sends to it, which is sent during the handshake. So LG must have screwed up that flag being sent when they (again, most likely) hurried to get the bitstream fix sent out. But then, as the 805 had only a few of these problems with the BH200 but only during HD DVD movies being played, the Pioneer appears to be much more sensitive to the problem as the VSX-03TXH had problems with ANY HD DVD being played, and the SC-05 has problems (seeing any signal being sent as either stereo or 96khz stereo) with both BD and HD DVD (but not regular DVD), perhaps because it is a BETTER AVR than the Onkyo and has stricter tolerances as mentioned below:

Maybe not solely the LG's fault as I have a Denon and have had none of the issues mentioned with bitstreaming any HD codecs (the DTS bomb is an example of a problem that would exhibit itself with certain hardware combinations). However it could just be that some AVR's are more tolerant of the LG than others.

But the confusing matter is this - using my Toshiba A35 HD DVD player, with the 805 I would occasionally get the stereo/static issue during times when the audio signal was stopped during pause/play or chapter changes. Using the VSX-03TXH, I think I got a few stereo/static issues with the A35 during those same times. But now, with the more expensive SC-05, the A35 so far has not had one signal problem yet!

IF ONLY, LG were to fix this issue, I would run back to BB and re-purchase that BH200 in a FLASH! As I said repeatedly, I truly love that player. It has excellent PQ, and the QDEO is fantastic with regular DVD's. And having one unit take the place of THREE on my Bello stand, I won't be seeing the glass shelf bowing in the middle anymore. It would go from looking like this:

PS3...........................
Tosh A35................... Time Warner HD DVR
*******<<<BOW DOWNWARD>>>********
Pioneer 59AVi...............SC-05
Samsung DVD-VR357.....SC-05

To this (nice & clean!!!):

BH200.......................Time Warner HD DVR
*********************************
................................SC05
Samsung DVD-VR357....SC05

Might even put the old Marantz LD player back in again on the bottom shelf which is fully supported LOL. Not to mention the old 59AVi is still worth some $$$ to the right person, as it plays both DVD-A and SACD, as well as has i-Link, and does an excellent job of upscaling to 1080i.

Now, what you had said about the old FW, does anyone have a list of what versions does what fixes? And if I were to be able to nab my BH200 back again from BB, could someone E-Mail me those older FW updates to try out?

Thanks!

Ooops, forgot to mention one thing - both Pioneer VSX-03TXH and SC-05 has something Pioneer calls "HDMI Jitter Reduction". Wonder if that could be effecting it??? Because I know Onkyo don't have that, not sure if Denon does either.

Sure looks like it is an LG issue, since it bitstreams DD+ just fine with older (pre April) firmware, but won't do it with April-Current firmware.

Something they did broke DD+ bitstreaming. They gave TrueHD decoding and DTS-MA bitstreaming, but broke DD+ for certain receivers/pre-pros.

Annoying for sure, but if LG knows about it, it seems like it should be an easy fix.

Broke down and bought a refurbished Sammy BD-UP5000 off Amazon and tested it on the 8003. No problems with DD+ bitstreaming, it was awesome to see the DD+ on the display. Watched the Mummy movies in DD+ and was very satisfied with the picture and sound. I'll keep the LG as a backup and hopefully they'll release an update for the DD+ issue.

Hi guys,

I am seeing an issue with this player that has been reported in the US AVSforums and wonder if anyone else gets the same problems. I am connecting to a Pioneer LX51 receiver.

When I select Primary pass through for bitstream to the amp with HDDVD I hear a loud buzzing sound in my speakers as the disk loads. On my Pio the display reads 192 Stereo. However when the film starts it finally picks up the DTS HD Master Audio track and I see this on my amp. Whenever you stop the disk and go back into the menus the buzzing starts again. If I select PCM Multichannel all is well.

As an experiment, I tried the same thing with a Blue ray disk....and do NOT get the same issue.......DTD HD Master audio is displayed correctly, but I do not get the speaker static as the disk loads or in the menus.

This points to the issue being with LG and the initial handshake with the pioneer on HDDVD. I am hoping that LG will fix this with a firmware update as this is the only issue I get with what is otherwise a superb player

Hi guys,

I am seeing an issue with this player that has been reported in the US AVSforums and wonder if anyone else gets the same problems. I am connecting to a Pioneer LX51 receiver.

When I select Primary pass through for bitstream to the amp with HDDVD I hear a loud buzzing sound in my speakers as the disk loads. On my Pio the display reads 192 Stereo. However when the film starts it finally picks up the DTS HD Master Audio track and I see this on my amp. Whenever you stop the disk and go back into the menus the buzzing starts again. If I select PCM Multichannel all is well.

As an experiment, I tried the same thing with a Blue ray disk....and do NOT get the same issue.......DTD HD Master audio is displayed correctly, but I do not get the speaker static as the disk loads or in the menus.

This points to the issue being with LG and the initial handshake with the pioneer on HDDVD. I am hoping that LG will fix this with a firmware update as this is the only issue I get with what is otherwise a superb player

It appears to be a "crapshoot" as to if it has the problem just with HD DVD, or both as in the case for me with the new SC-05 AVR. What country are you in, as I don't recognize your AVR number? Is this a recent model? If so, which USA model is it similar to? If the SC-05/07 then it is like mine (05), which neither BD or HD could play the proper bitstreamed audio. If it is the lower version similar to the VSX-01/03 TXH which I had for just 2 weeks, then that is the exact problem I had with my 03 - only with HD DVD.

It appears to be a "crapshoot" as to if it has the problem just with HD DVD, or both as in the case for me with the new SC-05 AVR. What country are you in, as I don't recognize your AVR number? Is this a recent model? If so, which USA model is it similar to? If the SC-05/07 then it is like mine (05), which neither BD or HD could play the proper bitstreamed audio. If it is the lower version similar to the VSX-01/03 TXH which I had for just 2 weeks, then that is the exact problem I had with my 03 - only with HD DVD.

Hi mate,

I am in the UK and my receiver is new out over here. I think it is the equivalent of the VSX-03 THX, which ties in with what you are saying:)

Interesting that the higher spec model has trouble with the bitstream output of both HD DVD and Blueray:confused:

Are we hopeful for a firmware fix for this in the future? Is there any means of reporting bugs to LG so they are at least aware of the issue?

Just got off the phone with Pioneer regarding the DD+ bitstreaming error. They believe the LG is partially decoding the signal inside the player in error when it should be passing the bitstreamed signal undecoded. By the receiver indicating a pcm signal, the receiver has received a a decoded codec and can not do anything else to it. If the LG was operating correctly, the receiver would not indicate that it is receiving a LPCM signal. In other words, pioneer has determined that the BH200 is the problem. Not too surprising.

You should forward this info to samsungmaster...


Just got off the phone with Pioneer regarding the DD+ bitstreaming error. They believe the LG is partially decoding the signal inside the player in error when it should be passing the bitstreamed signal undecoded. By the receiver indicating a pcm signal, the receiver has received a a decoded codec and can not do anything else to it. If the LG was operating correctly, the receiver would not indicate that it is receiving a LPCM signal. In other words, pioneer has determined that the BH200 is the problem. Not too surprising.

I was getting the same helicopter noise with my BH200 and an Onkyo 705 receiver. I switched back to the April firmware and the problem went away.

I have recently replaced the Onkyo with a Denon 889 and have no helicopter noise issues with the newer June firmware so to me it seems like the BH200 is not at fault on it's own.

I'm curious if before the April Firmware update if the player bitstreamed DD+ or if it had problems with the DTS signal?

I have not been able to bitstream dd+ since the January update.

I was getting the same helicopter noise with my BH200 and an Onkyo 705 receiver. I switched back to the April firmware and the problem went away.

I have recently replaced the Onkyo with a Denon 889 and have no helicopter noise issues with the newer June firmware so to me it seems like the BH200 is not at fault on it's own.

I have not been able to bitstream dd+ since the January update.

Have you guys updated your DSP firmware on your Onkyos? I updated my DSPs and have not had any issues with bitstreaming.

My setup: LG BH-200 with June firmware connected via HDMI cable to Samsung 4681f via Onkyo 705 with latest DSP updates.

I have a Pioneer Elite 92

Have you guys updated your DSP firmware on your Onkyos? I updated my DSPs and have not had any issues with bitstreaming.

My setup: LG BH-200 with June firmware connected via HDMI cable to Samsung 4681f via Onkyo 705 with latest DSP updates.

This time I do not belive it is the receiver, as was explained here:

Just got off the phone with Pioneer regarding the DD+ bitstreaming error. They believe the LG is partially decoding the signal inside the player in error when it should be passing the bitstreamed signal undecoded. By the receiver indicating a pcm signal, the receiver has received a a decoded codec and can not do anything else to it. If the LG was operating correctly, the receiver would not indicate that it is receiving a LPCM signal. In other words, pioneer has determined that the BH200 is the problem. Not too surprising.

Many others have thought that LG, in such a rush to get the latest FW out the door to enable the codecs to bitstream out, may have broken their HDMI bitstream audio. But my problem was not my SC-05 seeing a PCM signal coming in, it displayed that it was a STEREO or 192mhz STEREO signal coming in from the BH200.

And as samsungmaster mentioned, at LAST LG seems to be taking these problems (and 4:3) seriously. About time!

I have a Pioneer Elite 92

I have a Pio Elite 91 and I also get the hellicopter "chop, chop" audio. Using the latest FW so will roll back to the April FW and see if that works.

It happens on every HD DVD disk except Pan's Labyrinth. No problems bitstreaming Blu-rays either.

I installed the 3/14 FW and still no luck. Hellicopter, Lawnmower, Boat, Static noise, etc on every HD DVD. No audio issues when set to PCM, PCM Multi, or DTS.

The only solution is buy a Denon AVR. I doubt LG will ever fix this problem. This issue started since April firmware (or leaked March firmware) when bitstream advanced audio is first introduced.

The only solution is buy a Denon AVR. I doubt LG will ever fix this problem. This issue started since April firmware (or leaked March firmware) when bitstream advanced audio is first introduced.

Works perfect with my integra 9.8 pre amp also :)

Works perfect with my integra 9.8 pre amp also :)

It works for some AVR's, and not for many others. When I had my 805, I did get the occasionaly helicopter noise only when playing HD DVD movies using DD+ soundtracks via bitstream out to the 805. And then, it would only happen during pause/play or doing a manual chapter change. Basically, anyime the audio would stop, then restart again thus requiring a new HDMI handshake.

With my brand new Pioneer SC-05, it was both BD and HD that had the noise. Simple solution was to return the BH200, and I LOVE the new SC-05 more than I liked the Onkyo, so the BH200 went back. Currently, I am back to using the Tosh A35 with NO PROBLEMS AT ALL, and for BD I am quite happy with the Samsung 2500 = WHICH BY THE WAY . . . . . . both the 2500 and 2550 owners just got a pleasant surprise recently!!!!!! With a simple FW update, both got NetFlix online like the LG BD300, and the BB exclusive 2550 also got Pandora. Can't beat that!!!!!

Someone reported problems (dropouts) with DD+ using an A35 and an Onkyo TX-SR705 over at HighDefDigest.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/hd-dvd-hardware-general-discussion/70370-audio-dropouts-dd-bitstreams.html

Thought I would mention it just because seems to be a lot of problems with DD+ and not just with the BH200.

Someone reported problems (dropouts) with DD+ using an A35 and an Onkyo TX-SR705 over at HighDefDigest.

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/hd-dvd-hardware-general-discussion/70370-audio-dropouts-dd-bitstreams.html

Thought I would mention it just because seems to be a lot of problems with DD+ and not just with the BH200.


Two different issues. Dropouts can happen with any player on any audio tracks. It's not uncommon to see drop outs in various players.

The issue in this thread is not about drop outs, but rather incorrectly flaged audio stream that confused AVR to think it is something else.

The issue is some AVRS don't know how to convert Helicopter noise to what is actually on the disc!! ;)

It works for some AVR's, and not for many others. When I had my 805, I did get the occasionaly helicopter noise only when playing HD DVD movies using DD+ soundtracks via bitstream out to the 805. And then, it would only happen during pause/play or doing a manual chapter change. Basically, anyime the audio would stop, then restart again thus requiring a new HDMI handshake.
I've noticed this on occasion with the BD-UP5000 as well. Every once in a while, upon pausing a movie (or fast forward/rewind navigating) and then resuming playback, a loud helicopter sound emanates from the speakers. On HD DVD with DD+, the only fix is power cycling the player. I've also had something similar happen on Blu-rays where navigating or returning to the menu resolved the problem. It must have something to do with that beastly Broadcom chip.

As the problem is difficult to reproduce (very random), I can't imagine it will be fixed on the Samsung. :(

Really, that's funny I was told in this very thread that the 5K doesn't do this at all, and that the problem was most definitely the BH-200.

Experiences will vary from person to person and setup to setup. Just because it works for one doesn't mean it works for all. My UP5000 doesn't have the problem and my BH200 does so I paired the Samsung with the Pioneer receiver and the BH200 with the Denon and all is well, no more helicopter noise for me :).

Really, that's funny I was told in this very thread that the 5K doesn't do this at all, and that the problem was most definitely the BH-200.
It's because the problem is more prevalent on the BH200. It never happens on normal playback with the 5K but will randomly happen when using navigation/pause and resume...1/10 occasions maybe? Folks earlier in this thread were complaining about this happening more consistently than that if I'm not mistaken.

I think the sound I'm getting on the Sony Blu-rays (white noise) is related to difficulty with seamless branching.

I was actually being facetious there.
I understand 100%

Seems awfully funny that the Denons have ZERO issue here, but other brands are having trouble for some reason.

Wonder why THAT is?

I am in no way shape or form saying that Denon is any better, I just don't get why there isn't an issue with the Denons.

Hello,

Would the go-back to the March firmware solve the DD+ and DTS HD High Res issues?

Indeed, it seems these issues appeared with the April and June firmwares, since some people mentioned the player could bitstream all HD formats with no problem with the March firmware when they had just installed it and tested it...

Is there anyone here having experienced the same issues with the March firmware?

I was actually being facetious there.
I understand 100%

Seems awfully funny that the Denons have ZERO issue here, but other brands are having trouble for some reason.

Wonder why THAT is?

I am in no way shape or form saying that Denon is any better, I just don't get why there isn't an issue with the Denons.

I believe the Denons were the only receivers to properly handle the earlier 7.1 DTS-HD MA New Line titles (e.g., Pan's Labyrinth, Hairspray, Rush Hour 3, Shoot 'Em Up). Has anyone tried the DD+ with Krell, Classe or Harman Kardon processor/receivers yet?

Hello,

Would the go-back to the March firmware solve the DD+ and DTS HD High Res issues?

Indeed, it seems these issues appeared with the April and June firmwares, since some people mentioned the player could bitstream all HD formats with no problem with the March firmware when they had just installed it and tested it...

Is there anyone here having experienced the same issues with the March firmware?

I think the issue first popped up when the firmware to support bitstream advanced audio codecs was released (unofficially in March and officially in April IIRC). If you're going to roll back to the firmware that does not have problem, you will loss capability to bitstream all the advanced codec as well.

I personally never encounter any problem other than those known issues releated to 5k (pan's lab HD DVD and new Sony BD titles) with my BD-UP5000 and Pioneer Elite 92 receiver.

I'd think Denon probably implemented some better algorithm to identify bitstreamed audio format. It's similar to how DVD players de-interlace video. Some players only read video stream flags to determine the whether or not to apply 3:2 pull down. Some better players/chips read and analyze cadance or video frames to determine the exactly format of the stream regardless what the flag indicates.

Hey folks, currently working on this issue. :)

How about internal decoding of DTS-HD-MA?!?!?

Welcome, osofast, I earlier mentioned to samsungmaster a problem I see with the BH200 and my Denon 2807 (that apparently also happens in the 4806 and other models fromt that year.)

The problem is the BH200 doesn't detect that the 2807 is capable of multi-channel PCM through HDMI and so sends it only 2-channel PCM. Tis a bit annoying. The 2807 is a couple years old and so doesn't internally decode the latest hidef codecs (TrueHD and DTS HD) however it is fully capable of PCM 5.1 and decodes everything prior to the HD versions of both the DTS and Dolby codecs. I've tried setting the BH200 to both PCM 5.1 and Primary Pass Thru. When it comes to PCM (or LPCM) output, though, the results are always the same. Only two channels.

Two good example disks to try are Casino Royale and Spidey 3. If I swap the BH200 with my Samsung UP5k I get multichannel sound no matter what codec I try--on those disks or any other. That's why I think it is a BH200 problem.

Thanks!

Hey folks, currently working on this issue. :)
Wait... Does this mean LG is addressing the issue so that we can properly bitstream all codecs to our receivers?!

SSSWWWEEETTT!!!

Just went from a Denon 988 to a Marantz SR 5400 and am getting the helicopter sound bitstreaming DD+ with 3 movies tried, True HD worked fine. Running the latest firmware.