Here goes - my first question here after lurking a while:

My parents live WAY out in Eastern Oregon. They have always received their OTA broadcasts from Boise, ID. They have subscribed to Dish Network as well, and have their "local" package, which gives them somewhat non-relevent news and weather from Portland, OR. I hooked up their VHF antenna to their VIP622 receiver one year ago and was able to scan in two channels (9.1 & 12.1), but not their network affiliates. This weekend, I tried again and was only able to get 9.1. After running their ZIP code through TVFool.com, I realized that these stations at channels 2, 4, 6 & 7 are on digital channels 21, 24, 26 & 28, and of course I wouldn't get any signal with just a VHF antenna. Not sure what happened to 12.1.

My question is this: will it even be worth investing in a UHF antenna when they are 117.4 miles from the transmitters? Check for yourself - ZIP code 97884, and ignore channel 5/13.1 - that would require jumping 2 mountain ranges to get a signal.

Thanks for the expertise!

I think it would be worth a try, even if you just borrow a UHF antenna from somewhere. Without knowing exactly where they are, it's difficult to tell how their reception would be. If they're on top of a mountain and that's why they're receiving them, then I'd say it's definitely possible. If they're in a valley and were just getting them due to bending over and around terrain, then they're probably out of luck.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. It'd definitely be an interesting case.

- Trip

They live on a hill on the west side of the valley at about 4000 feet above sea level. There are hills on the other side of the valley (25 miles away) that probably are 4500 feet above sea level. From there, it's pretty much downhill and a straight shot to Boise. VHF NSTC reception is acceptable, with some noise. It's much better than where we lived out here when I was growing up - down in a river canyon, picking up only VHF-lo on a bounce, black-and-white snowy TV on our color set. Except for the one time I picked up Kansas City CH2 on a bounce for several hours in glorious clear color! :D

Any suggestions on what antenna to borrow/purchase to give it a try?

If it's a straight shot from the one edge, I'd say it's doable. What will help you is a phenomenon called "knife-edge diffraction." Basically, as the signal passes over edges of the mountains, some of it gets diffracted down toward the ground on the other side. A picture would make it easier to understand; unfortunately I'm unable to find one.

As for a UHF antenna to try, I'd say to see if there's anyone around who will let you borrow a UHF antenna. I have a Winegard PR-8800, but I've also heard good things about the Channel Master 4228 and the XG-91 (dunno who makes that). Pretty much anything outdoor with UHF elements would be a good place to start in terms of signal testing, but if it works and you want something more permanent, one of those I suggest would make a good choice probably. Make sure it's aimed at the hilltops you mentioned, as that's where the signal will be coming from. An amplifier of some kind wouldn't hurt either, especially given your distance.

Getting KQTV from St Joseph would come from e-skip, a different phenomenon entirely. I enjoy playing with e-skip, as long as it's not screwing with reception of channels I want to watch. (PBS digital, for instance) E-skip only effects channels 2-6 and the FM band. =)

- Trip

neither choice illustrated above would be my best choice for uhf.

the mxu is a 11 db uhf antenna. I sold winegard for 25 years and none of their uhf stuff is at the top tier of uhf antennas and would not even bother.

the cm 4228 and 91 xg is about the best available on uhf right now.

I would try 2 91 xg's horizontal stacked , rg11 coax and as high as you can go. A wade vip 306 for ch 5,10,13. all combined with a hot preamp like a winegard ap8275. or ap 4800 for uhf only...whatever.

tv fool says you need 950 ' for los. maybe you can put an antenna up on the goodyear blimp. you would just have to figure out how to get the signal down to you tuner.

tv fool says you need 950 ' for los. maybe you can put an antenna up on the goodyear blimp. you would just have to figure out how to get the signal down to you tuner.

Line of site is not necessary. Knife-edge diffraction will likely bring the signals down to a low enough level for use with a standard roof antenna. If the signals are coming in now on VHF with that kind of height needed, then knife-edge diffraction is likely already at work assisting.

Also, there's no point in bothering with channel 5; it'll be on channel 13 after 02/17/09, and KTRV-DT is there as well. Since we're told the signal from KTVR doesn't make it there anyway, I think it's safe to assume KTVR is a lost cause.

- Trip

Also, there's no point in bothering with channel 5; it'll be on channel 13 after 02/17/09, and KTRV-DT is there as well. Since we're told the signal from KTVR doesn't make it there anyway, I think it's safe to assume KTVR is a lost cause.

- Trip

Yeah, I think it would take a real knife-edge bend to get over the two 8000' mountain ranges between La Grande and Unity. Besides, they get OPB with the local package on Dish from Portland.

This is one of those frustrating situations with the transition. Stations which made it into this valley just fine on VHF are moving to UHF with its lack of DX, and the only OTA that will be available on VHF are Fox and CW. Good thing my parents can afford Dish, or they would be stuck watching endless episodes of American Idol :eek:.

Don't get too discouraged yet; knife-edge diffraction does work on UHF signals. I have a kit for watching digital TV in the car, have had one since 2003, and when I go to visit family, we always have to cross over Afton Mountain. With my indoor antenna, in a moving car, I've received UHF digital TV stations from Richmond on the other side of the mountain. That's about 70 miles from the stations, with an INDOOR antenna, in a moving car.

And trust me, UHF has DX as well, not that I imagine you'll encounter much of it in the mountains like that.

There's a reason I hold out so much hope for you. I've seen signals do some pretty interesting things.

- Trip

This is one of those frustrating situations with the transition. Stations which made it into this valley just fine on VHF are moving to UHF with its lack of DX, and the only OTA that will be available on VHF are Fox and CW. Good thing my parents can afford Dish, or they would be stuck watching endless episodes of American Idol :eek:.

I don't know if you saw my response to your other post, but KTVB/NBC is moving back to 7, so you can add a 3rd VHF station to the list.

UHF bends fairly well at the lower end of the band, but still not close to what VHF can do. Low-VHF has problems of its own, enough of which to encourage most to move off of that band, such as KAID/4, KIVI/6 and KBCI/2 in Boise.