I bought a Toshiba 42RV530U 42" Regza LCD TV today and am returning it tomorrow. I bought it from Circuit City, and it is so hard to tell the picture quality of TV's in a store like that. Read many good reviews, but none mentioned standard definition. My family does not have cable/satellite, so we only watch standard definition TV. While we will eventually get blue ray, we currently only watch standard DVD's as well. This TV did a horrible job with standard definition. The Xbox 360 picture wasn't even impressive. My entertainment center has a height of only 29 inches, so the TV has to be less than that. Most 42" TV's seem to be able to fit, even with the stand. Also, we are looking for something around $1500.00 or less. We want something around 40" to 42". All of this seems to narrow our search some, but most 40" to 42" TV's seem to fit in our price range. I've worked as a projectionist in a movie theater for 8 years. This has caused me to notice imperfections in pictures very easily. While I know a decent amount about a theater, I don't know too much about LCD/Plasma TV's. There are quite a few more at Circuit City that I've been looking at. These are:

Samsung 42" Plasma HDTV
Model #: SAM PN42A450

LG 42" Plasma HDTV
Model #: LG 42PG20

Panasonic 42" Plasma HDTV
Model #: PAN TH42PX80U

Samsung 40" Series 5 LCD HDTV
Model #: SAM LN40A530

LG 42" LCD HDTV
Model #: LG 42LG50

Sony 40" V Series LCD HDTV
Model #: SON KDL40V4100

Panasonic 42" VIERA Plasma HDTV
Model #: PAN TH42PZ80U

Sony 40" Bravia W-Series LCD HDTV
Model #: SON KDL40W3000

If anyone could give me some advice about any of these, or even other flat panel TV's, that do a good job in standard definition, that would be greatly appreciated!

Sorry this was so long!

I have the LG 50pg20 (50" of the LG plasma above), and it does great with SD.

Interesting, because almost all off-air TV signals now are in digital HD; standard analog signals get turned off next February.

Any new flat-screen should have an ATSC tuner in it, and pick up off-air digital HD signals. Why are you not watching these?

To my eyes most plasma's look better with standard def than LCD's do.

Thanks for the replies. I am watching the digital HD channels that are over-the-air, however, even these do not look good on this TV. Some of them come in OK, but still look grainy, and have rough edges. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

I'll have to check out that LG plasma then...

I've got a Panny 50PZ800 and I'm perfectly happy with SD on it.....and even "stretched" SD. Honestly, there have been a few times I've had to check to see if it's an HD channel or SD channel.

Have only had my TV about a week.....and was expecting the worst when it came to SD....but I've been very happy.

tts42572, do you receive your SD signal over the air? I too am looking for a flat panel TV that will display SD digital signal decently. So much that I have read says SD looks like crap on an HDTV. I have been reading about the Panasonic TH50PZ800U and like what I read, but until your post I hadn't seen anything about how SD digital looks on this TV. I don't want to pay the money only to find out that the PQ is worse than my current 19" CRT analog TV with digital to analog converter.

Bucky_Balls, what did you end up with and do you like it? Anyone else feel free to express your views. I know zero about this topic, but would like to learn all I can before I buy.

Thanks!

Interesting, because almost all off-air TV signals now are in digital HD; standard analog signals get turned off next February.

Any new flat-screen should have an ATSC tuner in it, and pick up off-air digital HD signals. Why are you not watching these?

To my eyes most plasma's look better with standard def than LCD's do.

I believe that the TV signals starting in February only have to be digital, but not necessarily HD.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but any SD source, especially any analog broadcast of an SD signal, looks bad on any HD display. These are the common SD broadcast sources:

1) (Worst)Analog NTSC broadcasts on VHF/UHF analog channels - still in use, but will be entirely retired on or before February 17, 2009. If your HDTV has both analog (NTSC) and digital (ATSC) tuners (most do) then you might be viewing the analog source today, and your TV will add sidebars to the 4:3 image to convert for the 16:9 screen. Still, this is the lowest quality signal due to the degradation of the analog broadcast.

2) (Better) Digital ATSC broadcasts where a 480i source signal is broadcast as 480i digital subchannel - ATSC broadcasts allow up to 5 subchannels including the base channel (which can be SD or HD). No more resolution than the original 480i, but no degradation from an analog broadcast method.

3) Digital ATSC broadcasts where 480i SD source is "upconverted" and broadcast as a 720p or 1080i signal. The quality is dependant upon the equipment used in upconversion, and there are sidebars inserted at the station to change the 4:3 source to fit a 16:9 screen.

Only HD source broadcast digitally as 720p or 1080i looks really good on the HDTV. Digital SD can be scaled or "upconverted" cleanly but won't look the same - unless your screen is small and you sit well back from it, then you might see no difference.

Now as for SD source on an HD display - the better the display, the more of the defects in the source you can see.

Rarely, a station will gain access to a high quality 35mm film source of a classic show versus some video recording. Such is the case in the SF Bay area where a local station is broadcasting the 35mm original films of the classic original Star Trek series in a 1080i broadcast. This is a genuine 1080i HD broadcast with sidebars added by the station. It looks great.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but any SD source, especially any analog broadcast of an SD signal, looks bad on any HD display. These are the common SD broadcast sources:

1) (Worst)Analog NTSC broadcasts on VHF/UHF analog channels - still in use, but will be entirely retired on or before February 17, 2009. If your HDTV has both analog (NTSC) and digital (ATSC) tuners (most do) then you might be viewing the analog source today, and your TV will add sidebars to the 4:3 image to convert for the 16:9 screen. Still, this is the lowest quality signal due to the degradation of the analog broadcast.

2) (Better) Digital ATSC broadcasts where a 480i source signal is broadcast as 480i digital subchannel - ATSC broadcasts allow up to 5 subchannels including the base channel (which can be SD or HD). No more resolution than the original 480i, but no degradation from an analog broadcast method.

3) Digital ATSC broadcasts where 480i SD source is "upconverted" and broadcast as a 720p or 1080i signal. The quality is dependant upon the equipment used in upconversion, and there are sidebars inserted at the station to change the 4:3 source to fit a 16:9 screen.

Only HD source broadcast digitally as 720p or 1080i looks really good on the HDTV. Digital SD can be scaled or "upconverted" cleanly but won't look the same - unless your screen is small and you sit well back from it, then you might see no difference.

Now as for SD source on an HD display - the better the display, the more of the defects in the source you can see.

Rarely, a station will gain access to a high quality 35mm film source of a classic show versus some video recording. Such is the case in the SF Bay area where a local station is broadcasting the 35mm original films of the classic original Star Trek series in a 1080i broadcast. This is a genuine 1080i HD broadcast with sidebars added by the station. It looks great.

Which channel is doing that?

Thank you Gary for the detailed explanation. Since most, if not all of the stations, in my area are currently transmitting standard digital signals OTA (at least most of the time), you're saying that I'm not likely to be happy with the PQ I would get on an HDTV. And since I don't want to pay for HD cable or satellite, it sounds like my best bet is to find a used analog CRT TV and continue to use the digital to analog converter box. Are there any other options? What if I buy a 42" HDTV that has an analog tuner and use the digital converter box with it. Would the PQ be any better than standard digital on the same 42" HDTV? Does anyone make converter boxes that up converts from standard digital to 720p? Is that an affordable option? I don't understand why TV manufacturers don't still make ED TVs that would display a standard digital (480) signal with decent PQ. It seems like the manufacturers have all gone to making HDTVs but the broadcasters are still transmitting an SD digital signal. Totally whacked!

Auditor55, what does SED stand for?

Billy341, there won't be any analog SD broadcasts past February 2009, they are ending forever, you must use either a converter box with an analog set or a real HDTV past then. Whether or not you pay for HD cable or satellite NOW means nothing after February 17, 2009 - the basic package has to include HD with no uplift charge then.

Your best plan is free broadcast HD off an antenna - already available today, and next year, digital broadcasts are the only thing available. You will however want a 16:9 widescreen monitor an an HD tuner. SD is slowly disappearing.

Which channel is doing that?

KBCW-TV analog channel 44 (480i SD) and digital channel 44-1 (1080i HD) at midnight Saturday night, about one day and two hours from now. This week's episode is "Catspaw", originally broadcast 27 October 1967. They were in the midst of Season 1 (last week was "Mudd's Women") but evidently wanted a more Halloween-themed episode for this week. Next week starts the two-parter "The Menagerie".

The TiVo-HD is the best way....

I don't know why you say no SD can ever look good on any HD display. Digital OTA SD looks great on my Elite 1140HD, and even my crappy 480i Dish signal doesn't look that bad.

Even analog OTA, when I'm getting a clean, strong signal looks very good on it.

Source is everything. I often see 480i material that looks very good.. I do cheat by having a DVDO Edge deinterlace and scale it to 1080P. But when it looks very good it is because the source is very clean, not because the video processor makes silk purses from sow's ears.

I am viewing on a 65" display, there is no reason a 42" plasma can't look quite good with many a digital sd source .

You often see SD that is cropped and downscaled HD video, no reason in the world for that to not look good. The TV stations or networks have professional scalers that can do that and end up with a very impressive SD broadcast.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm gonna get me an HDTV and try it out. I'll let you know if I'm happy with the PQ or not.

Thanks again,
Billy

back in 2004 i think they (sony, i thought) had some tv's that had tried to make std look better, do they not try that anymore so people would goto HD?

I think all TV manufacturers try to make SD look better - because analog broadcasts still exist and almost all HDTVs sold have both NTSC and ATSC tuners built in.

But good 480i-to-720p or 480i-to-1080p scaling requires a relatively expensive video processor, such as the HQV built into pricey Pioneer plasmas or the Micronas FRC 94xyM that is found in the 120Hz Samsung LCDs. Too many venders including Sony go cheap on this important part.

I agree with the comments that say that digital 480i suchannels can look good when scaled - but if all you have is the analog channel as source, you will likely not be satisfied.

I watch hd almost exclusively and my wife a mix hd/sd. SD quality was important to us because the tv we were upgrading from was one of the best(if not the best ) analog sets ever made - Sony 35xbr48 tube - and a great rp crt hd set the hitachi s500. Solution = his and hers kuros. We are both very happy with that solution- meets and exeeds all our needs for everything from analog sd to ps3 bd 1080p24.

Source is everything..
Cable, HD STB etc..