Of course, I'm sure many of you (if not most) know about the new format Toshiba is about to bring out with in the next 6 months.

Here's an article, for those who have no idea what's going on:

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2217906/enhanced-dvd-compete-blu-ray

My question is, not about if it's BETTER than blu-ray or HD dvd or any of that, my question is simple.....IS IT WORTH IT???

Will you purchase a player? YES or NO......What is your reason?

As for myself, I've been missing out all those new movies, especially the Rambo, Die Hard and National Treasures series in HD. I almost went and purchased a blu-ray player but now I'm holding off because of Toshiba's new format. I've seen picture between SD and their 960P (I think?) and picture just looks stunning. I, for myself, could not tell much of a difference beween my A2 (720p) and A30 (1080p) on my 1080P TV and my projector is only 720p so for me, I believe, with all the DVDs I own, would make sense to me to purchase that player.

As for DVD's, alot cheaper, and for rental, you can get them from the redbox for $1. Amazing! Compared to blockbuster, now charging $5/movie!

What are your thoughts?

AGAIN, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "WELL, IT AIN'T NO 1080P! WON'T BEAT BLU-RAY! TOSHIBA IS *#*#(......"

Thanks

Here are some image samples.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20080114/dg96_13.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Super-resolution_example_closeup.png

How about no. This sounds like the Sega CD. Not quite where the technology needs to be for the next generation and fits no real current niche that isn't already being done in current players. This product is more destined to fail than HD DVD for sure.

I personally would be happy to snag 2 players. If picture is HD and looks as good as 720p HD DVD then it's more than worth it for me. I won't bother w/ blu-ray for now. It's easier for me to get DVD's at a LOT cheaper price than getting blu-ray. Easier to make home movies on a SD DVD than to buy a blank blu-ray for $15. Just my thoughts. I will never have to replace those movies that I already have, somewhere in the 500 range.

Also, I hope people realise that it's not just going and buying a $500 DENON top of the line player and using it to upconvert movies...or even buying a PS3 to upconvert your movies. I believe the technology is totally different and the algorithm of how it's reading/displaying on the screen.

I'd want to see it in action before casting judgment. The first still looks like an annoying sharpening filter, the second one looks too good to be true. I think it'd be really important to see it in motion.

My guess is it'll work well.... some of the time.

New ideas are always fun and I'll poke at it. I'd rather have a technology that did this to blu-ray discs though. Think forwards, not backwards! ^_^

I found a post from another thread.....explains what I was thinking, in a much better way.

Allan,

I don't believe it works like that. I think the idea is to take information about the same object from multiple frames and use the data from all those frames to compose the final image. Each frame can have fractional-pixel phase shifts in position of the objects, and that data can be used to extract additional resolution for the final rendered image. In other words, it's not just a matter of deciding which field out of two or three to take a pixel from, but rather analyzing a large number of fields and using the total information to construct a higher-resolution final image.

- Dale Adams

If this new player is a super upconverter, which I think is the whole idea, and the image it produces is close to Blu-ray on my display, then I will buy. I have a large library of dvd's that I will not want to replace. If this player can make them look really good, then I would have no reason to upgrade to a Blu-ray player. I only go by what I can see. I don't care about specs, If it is 1080,1080p,1080p/24 whatever, I don't care. If a super upconverter can give a similar image to HI def then I am in.

I wonder if this may be why Toshiba dropped HD DVD. If they have a new technology which makes DVD HD then why spend a fortune on HD DVD. This could be a huge developement depending on how well it actually works. Imagine installing this chip into satellite and cable boxes and being able to produce HD with standard def broadcast. The satellite and cable companies could save a fortune.

My vote is no. They should have just added this ability to HDDVD players and maybe the tune would be different today. The fact is that a crappy DVD encode cannot have data added that is not there. I wouldn't buy it but it makes sense if studios would agree to up there encodes to 960p for DVD then there would be an obvious difference. Demo material like what is here is useless. Pop in a movie and show us the real world differnece. Not sure but what Toshiba is trying to sell here sounds like a next gen upconverter. Sorry but not interested in a "half way there solution" that was born out of the ashes of what was the loosing side of an HD optical war. With all major studios and all independants ramping up on blu ray there is no need to take a step back. Upconversion has never been that impressive to me. There are machines that do a good job but cannot touch what hddvd offered and what blu ray offers. Just my nickel.

My vote is no. They should have just added this ability to HDDVD players and maybe the tune would be different today. The fact is that a crappy DVD encode cannot have data added that is not there. I wouldn't buy it but it makes sense if studios would agree to up there encodes to 960p for DVD then there would be an obvious difference. Demo material like what is here is useless. Pop in a movie and show us the real world differnece. Not sure but what Toshiba is trying to sell here sounds like a next gen upconverter. Sorry but not interested in a "half way there solution" that was born out of the ashes of what was the loosing side of an HD optical war. With all major studios and all independants ramping up on blu ray there is no need to take a step back. Upconversion has never been that impressive to me. There are machines that do a good job but cannot touch what hddvd offered and what blu ray offers. Just my nickel.
Once bitten...

No, I l only have hd dvd right now but this would be a waste of time and money.
Basically they are saying this is just a better upconverter of dvd, you can only make dvd look so good but it is not high def and it will remain that way. My a35 makes my dvd's look great on my 1080p 55inch tv but when I switch to the hd dvd of the same movie I can see alot more detail, color, etc. No comparison. The future is blu I will purchase a new player probably next year when they get down to $250 for profile 2.0, analog outs internal decoding, etc.

Those old upconverting players are just so last year. :rolleyes: :p

I don't see the point of what Toshiba is trying to do, but hey, more power to 'em. Looks like they would have learned their lesson by now, but . . .

A new player that does upscaling, noise reduction and adds sharpening to regular DVDs? Oh boy I can't wait!

Seriously though, no.

The new DVD player will be backwards-compatible with standard DVD discs, according to the sources.
:confused:

What about the audio??

No!

This is not a "format". It's an upconverter. If you want DVD's to look good there are a number of good ones already available. I would be very surprised if this turned out to be substantially better than the best of those, but we'll see. There is only so much you can do to inferior source material.

Yes, as others have pointed out this is not a new "format"...for Toshiba to label it that is misleading at best. This would be no different then calling what an outboard scaler does a new format....it's not...it's a scaler of standard definition content. This player is a scaler/processor of standard definition dvd's...

Wow. There is a lot of bitterness in here. Like it was posted in a Bluray forum or something. Funny I don't see so much bashing about regular upconverters.

Wow. There is a lot of bitterness in here. Like it was posted in a Bluray forum or something. Funny I don't see so much bashing about regular upconverters.

It's not about bashing, IMO. Upconverters are marketed as such, not new formats...that is the main difference. OTOH, if they properly market this, and CAN show a positive difference over standard upconverters, they may have a winner. They just need to keep the cost in line. I, myself, am not interested. My next player will be Blu Ray.

I don't see anything wrong with offering improved video processing and upscaling. Obviously the price will determine success. I'd also be interested in seeing similar processing applied to cable and satellite video, which is sorely in need of help. For example, if this technology could help remove compression artifacts from cable and sat "HD-lite" images, that would be grand.

Maybe what Toshiba is really doing here is responding to Oppo's success and trying to grab that market. Competition is good.

If it does what it claims, hell yes I'll buy one. If not, I have to wonder what Toshiba is thinking... If it requires studios to release a new format (like the article's SACD example), well then it's a format war all over again, and Tosh will lose all over again. Best of luck Toshiba.

I voted YES-- I'm excited! :) Ok, maybe not excited, but at least slightly curious. HT buffs spend all kinds of bread on scalers, video processors and custom PCs to get SD content to look better. If these new units make SD-DVDs look even better than current upconverting players, and can save a little money and effort in the process (and they can get the color output correct), then why not?

HDMI upconverting players are one of the fastest growing segments in home electronics at the moment. So there's certainly a market there for the right type of new product. The proof will be in the puddin though. If it's as clunky to operate and noisy (ie has a fan) as early HDM players, then I'll probably pass. My Sony HDMI player may not do quite as good a job as a well-configured HTPC, Oppo or a Realta/Reon-based player, but I dig it because it's cheap, fast, relatively quiet, easy to use, and does a decent job with most DVDs at 1080i on my 34" CRT. (Hopefully the new units will also be compatible with older HDTVs that only have DVI.)

The issue I have with this is that Blu-Ray players will probably be around $200-250 (or less) when this comes out. Therefore, people will opt for real high definition (even though the budget players have yet to show capable upconverting) as it's the new thing over buying yet another box that just plays DVD's.

For displays less than 40", upconversion is VERY competitive with HDM at normal viewing distances. For those above 60", the difference is very clear in favor of HDM. For those of us in the middle, great upconversion is tolerable, but the minor HDM differences are still noticeable.

Maybe what Toshiba is really doing here is responding to Oppo's success and trying to grab that market. Competition is good.

I would be surprised if anyone at Toshiba has ever heard of Oppo.

As to the new technology: I'm skeptical but willing to be convinced. There is a limit as to what can be done with SD-DVD and I suspect we are close to it. But: I've been wrong before.

-Bill

Big breath here Jim; As a supporter of HD DVD and Toshiba what are they thinking? I want the best PQ and AQ available. HD DVD is gone, I don't want to settle for up-converted anything.

A very satisfied owner of the Panasonic BD30 and my XA2.

Jim

Hell yes. With the slow rate they are releasing High Definition Disc's at the moment DVD will be around for another 700 years or so.:mad:
Will buy into everything that makes the old DVD look better, if it really does.
And if the price is right, that is..

The really interesting thing about this is the new technology which has the potential of completely changing the assumption that more lines of resolution equals more quality. The cable and sat providers have thoroughly proven that this assumption is false, as have MANY of the recent BD movie releases. A new "smart" scaling technology like this could really change things. Imagine, for example, making a DVD recording and having the recording play back looking better than the source did. How much would that be worth?

It'll need a load of processing power and memory, but it's certainly possible. The technology already exists, it just hasn't been used "on the fly" in this way yet.

The issue I have with this is that Blu-Ray players will probably be around $200-250 (or less) when this comes out.Will they really though? Because right now, the prices seem to be holding pretty steady at $400+. And there've been no signs of movement downward since the holiday season, despite very weak sales.

If a new product like this puts some add'l pressure on BD players to become more competitive price-wise, and more streamlined (ie quieter, faster, fanless...) performance-wise, that's a good thing in my view, because I'd like to get a Blu-ray player as well.

Not only player prices, but Blu movies are considered a bargain if they can be found under $20, while SD is half that or less.

I think it's funny how people throw out the fact that, yes, there are sub $300 Blu players, or very soon will be. But really, would you buy them? I will pay much more for a Pioneer or something higher quality, more reliable than a Magnavox/Phillips.

Will they really though? Because right now, the prices seem to be holding pretty steady at $400+. And there've been no signs of movement downward since the holiday season, despite very weak sales.



I saw a 299.00 player at Walmart last weekend. Don't remember the brand name.

Art

I saw a 299.00 player at Walmart last weekend. Don't remember the brand name.And I could get an Insignia for $350 too... but I probably wouldn't. Price ain't the only issue though. The players need to become more user-friendly as well before I'll bite.

If this succeeds, it will simply be as a part of a Blu-ray player.

Up-conversion works best on the best DVD's. There are many DVD's that are simply medicre and were made from old transfers and poor masters.

Blu-ray's picture and sound are still bound to be better, especially on the AVERAGE disk. Blu-ray also has all of the additional features such as PIP and networking that Toshiba told us were so necessary.

Toshiba should build Blu-ray players that incorporate their superior upconversion.

In fact: I hereby predict that they will!

Wow. There is a lot of bitterness in here. Like it was posted in a Bluray forum or something. Funny I don't see so much bashing about regular upconverters.
I didn't see any "bitter" posts, care to point out what you perceive as "bitter"?:confused:

Wow. There is a lot of bitterness in here. Like it was posted in a Bluray forum or something. Funny I don't see so much bashing about regular upconverters.

This thread was in HDM software forum and was moved into this forum...so all of the threads above yours are relating to this "format" competing with HDM

Don't see the point. Own both HD disc formats - why go backward.

DVD is a new format:confused:

Did someone bump a thread from 97?

If the price was under $100 and it really improved the picture on SD disks it might be worth considering. I know that it can never equal Blu-Ray in quality but it could be good to have for SD disks. The question will be how the General Public will react. Will low price of players and disks make it good enough for some buyers. The other question is how soon Toshiba will get this unit out. There will be a big Blu push this holiday season and it may be too late. The other question will this player help to bring down the price of Blu players and disks? If it will do that I am all for it. How many remember to sales last holiday season? We need more BOGO specials and lower prices for Blu-Ray.

How will J6P differentiate this from every other UP DVD player on the market?

We all know about Toshiba's stellar marketing.

Use this prior thread, please: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1034350

larry