Is this long anticipated update from Samsung strictly about HDMI bitstreaming to a 1.3 compatible receiver?

I think it does 5.1 analog for TrueHD as well.

TrueHD 5.1 is the only one missing in previous firmware. Now it is fixed. However, don't expect full quality audio from analog out because DTS MA tracks will only be decoded using DTS core.

To get the fill glory of advance audio, you still need to invest in a HDMI 1.3a receiver using bitstream. The new firmware adds TrueHD and DTS-HD/MA bitstream.

Right now the player does the following:

1) Sends lossless PCM tracks out as PCM
2) Sends lossless TrueHD tracks out as PCM (new! previously it only sent this as a 2.1 signal, no surround)
3) Converts higher bitrate DD+ out as PCM
4) Uses the core DTS track from DTS-MA to output lossy 5.1 PCM (boo)
5) Outputs all legacy codecs as lossy 5.1 PCM
6) Because you are using on board decoding, secondary audio can be mixed in with the main audio for things like PiP bonus view content.

Because of number 4, if you want fully lossless sound quality on all discs you will need an HDMI 1.3 reciever that can decode all of the new formats (trueHD, DTS-MA, DD+) and it will send the audio to the reciever to be converted. This essentially effects Fox and New Line discs as the ones that primarily use DTS-MA.

The problem is, if you do this, number 6 becomes a problem. You will no longer get audio from secondary audio tracks (PiPs, menu audio, etc), and you will have to switch the player to decode internally if you ever want to watch any bonus content. The annoyance of this will largely depend on how much bonus content you watch and how important lossless audio is (i.e. do you have a real sound system or a HTIB)

Thanks for your post Nmcnair.

How do other players handle the Bitstream vs. Secondary audio conundrum? It must be quite a widespread issue. I know the PS3 doesn't bitstream anything.

However, don't expect full quality audio from analog out because DTS MA tracks will only be decoded using DTS core.
Has that now been confirmed? Thanks.

Sorry I don't want to trawl through the Firmware thread to find it :D.

Thanks for your post Nmcnair.

How do other players handle the Bitstream vs. Secondary audio conundrum? It must be quite a widespread issue. I know the PS3 doesn't bitstream anything.


Has that now been confirmed? Thanks.

Sorry I don't want to trawl through the Firmware thread to find it :D.

It is confirmed that DTS-MA uses the "core" DTS track and not the lossless one. There are some discs that have DTS-MA 7.1 soundtracks out there. When set to have the player decode and send the signal via PCM only 5.1 channels are sent (the core DTS track is 5.1).. so no DTS-MA

As far as the problem of bitsreaming, every single player (BRD or HDDVD) has the same problem. If you send the audio straight from the disc to your reciever, you cannot get secondary audio. Unless the BRD or HDDVD player is mixing the sound, you wont get the secondary audio. There really isnt any way around it.. the best scenario is really a player that decodes all of the advanced audio codecs.. The PS3 does this (AFAIK) but does me no good because I have a collection of 70 HDDVD's that I need a machine to play.

If Samsung could pillar box 4:3 DVD content (some indication that they may actually be working on this across the board) and be able to decode DTS-MA (sadly, not very likely) it would be a perfect player.

Thanks a lot Nmcnair.

I figured it was Core only when on-board decoded but it's good to be confirmed.

If Samsung could pillar box 4:3 DVD content (some indication that they may actually be working on this across the board)
I hope so, LG too. I don't care what they say, it's a bug!

so how does the audio stack up to the bh200 now?? like what do both miss, have or only one does and the other doesnt?

Talking specifically about "audio": The Samsung has analogue outputs but otherwise they're identical.

both are the same?? except for those analog outs?

My Own Summary of differences:

Samsung Advantages:
7.1 Analogue Outs (BIG advantage if you dont have an HDMI 1,1+ Receiver)
Reon is generally thought to be slightly better for DVD upscaling than the QDEO in LG

LG Advantages:
Multiregion hack for DVD
PAL playback can be enabled on USA unit
Bluray zone can be manually changed!
USB port for additional storage and playback of MP3 and JPEGs
Seems to have less HDDVD compatability issues

LG Advantages:
Seems to have less HDDVD compatability issues

Except for T2 Ultimate HD DVD (german import) which skynet interactive mode does not even load...:(

both are the same?? except for those analog outs?
You asked about the audio specifically ;), so yes talking about audio only they're the same, except for 7.1 analogue outputs.

Both now offer:

PCM On-board
DTS-HD MA and HR Bitstream only
TrueHD Bitstream or On-board
DD Bitstream or On-board
DD+ Bitstream or On-board
(Legacy) DTS and DTS Core Bitstream or On-board
All audio formats transcoded to 1.5Mbps DTS (including TrueHD)

Seems to have less HDDVD compatability issues
I think they're about equal, otherwise I agree. The LG also has support for BD-R and BD-RE.

I have an old Denon AVR-2800 with 5.1 analog inputs which are connected to the 5000. I also have the 5000 connected optically to the 2800. Should I just output everything to the 5.1 inputs. I do have the ability to set some of the parameters for the 5.1 inputs (individual speaker levels) but I don't think the speaker delays which I orginally set for the receiver apply to the 5.1 inputs. Any recommendations regarding the best setup for BD and HD DVD discs would be appreciated.

Personally I'd use both too, depending on what audio you're listening to:

TrueHD or PCM - Analogue
Everything else - SPDIF (Optical)

And set it to PCM in the Audio options.

IMO SPDIF sounds better than Analogue on Lossy material (i.e - DTS-HD on anything other than HDMI 1.3 Amps is Lossy). SPDIF like HDMI is a Digital stream which IMO counts for something, you can also make use of your Amps "Digital Effects" too using SPDIF.

Analogue and Pre-HDMI 1.3 Amps (ie. - HDMI 1.0, 1.1, 1.2) are basically utilised the same way on th Samsung BD-UP5000. So it's worth reading the comments in here also:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1035094

The only real-world difference being you don't have to use SPDIF too.

Does the audio option mode (analogue, re-encode, audiophile) effect what's put out of the analogue outputs. For example, if I have it set to re-encode do I still get TrueHD out of the analogues or a re-encoded version of it?

I'd like to keep my player on re-encode b/c I don't have a receiver that can decode DD+ over SPDIF and I'd rather have a DTS re-encode of it that a 2.0 PCM version.

I'm pretty sure, it's "TrueHD over Analogue":

PCM - Lossless Multi-Channel PCM
Audiophile - 2 Channel PCM (I think Lossless)
Re-encode - Lossy 1.5Mbps DTS

Re-encode converts "everything" into Lossy DTS. I think if the audio is 1.5Mbps or above you get 1.5Mbps and if it's lower than 1.5Mbps (say 640Kbps DD) you'll get whatever bitrate it's stored in.

I have an old Denon AVR-2800 with 5.1 analog inputs which are connected to the 5000. I also have the 5000 connected optically to the 2800. Should I just output everything to the 5.1 inputs. I do have the ability to set some of the parameters for the 5.1 inputs (individual speaker levels) but I don't think the speaker delays which I orginally set for the receiver apply to the 5.1 inputs. Any recommendations regarding the best setup for BD and HD DVD discs would be appreciated.Having had a 3803 hooked up to the 5000 at one point, I'd suggest just using the 5.1 portion of the analog outs and skip the optical. It will simplify everything and there is nothing optical does better than straight analog, since DTS-MA bitstream requires HDMI anyway.

As far as delay, I didn't notice any. YMMV. The Denon will do NO processing of the signal other than volume and mute, so this may be an issue in your setup. But that also means there are no processing delays, so there's a good chance you're OK.

PCM - Lossless Multi-Channel PCM
Audiophile - 2 Channel PCM (I think Lossless)
Re-encode - Lossy 1.5Mbps DTS


These are for SPDIF only. Analog will always be 5.1 on TrueHD tracks fully decoded from TrueHD. And in the case of Audiophile on SPDIF, the player will output the hidden DD 5.1 track on BD discs.

These are for SPDIF only. Analog will always be 5.1 on TrueHD tracks fully decoded from TrueHD. And in the case of Audiophile on SPDIF, the player will output the hidden DD 5.1 track on BD discs.
Correct...I haven't noticed but has anyone documented what happens over S/PDIF with HD DVD TrueHD streams? Re-encoded to DTS, I presume.

Correct...I haven't noticed but has anyone documented what happens over S/PDIF with HD DVD TrueHD streams? Re-encoded to DTS, I presume.


I posted that already. Using a HD DVD disc contains TrueHD track only:

* In re-encode mode, TrueHD is decoded and re-encoded as DTS
* In Audiophile mode, TrueHD is outputed as PCM 2.0. Analog out seems stay in 5.1 but I can't remember if it is true. I may need to confirm that again.

Thanks for the correction guys. It sounds like PCM is overall the best option for Analogue users still though.

With the firmware ver 1.3 update, does the UP5000 now internally decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio, I have a non HDMI receiver, so do I just run audio cables from the UP5000 7.1 player outputs to my receiver audio inputs?

That first question was answered in post #3 and then again in #4:

TrueHD 5.1 is the only one missing in previous firmware. Now it is fixed. However, don't expect full quality audio from analog out because DTS MA tracks will only be decoded using DTS core.

To get the fill glory of advance audio, you still need to invest in a HDMI 1.3a receiver using bitstream. The new firmware adds TrueHD and DTS-HD/MA bitstream.

Right now the player does the following:

1) Sends lossless PCM tracks out as PCM
2) Sends lossless TrueHD tracks out as PCM (new! previously it only sent this as a 2.1 signal, no surround)
3) Converts higher bitrate DD+ out as PCM
4) Uses the core DTS track from DTS-MA to output lossy 5.1 PCM (boo)
5) Outputs all legacy codecs as lossy 5.1 PCM
6) Because you are using on board decoding, secondary audio can be mixed in with the main audio for things like PiP bonus view content.

Because of number 4, if you want fully lossless sound quality on all discs you will need an HDMI 1.3 reciever that can decode all of the new formats (trueHD, DTS-MA, DD+) and it will send the audio to the reciever to be converted. This essentially effects Fox and New Line discs as the ones that primarily use DTS-MA.
Now add Universal to that list of DTS-MA studios (New Line may trend towards TrueHD now that Warner swallowed it). Lionsgate is trending that way also.

The answer to your second question, smartwater, would still be yes.

Great information, thanks guys! Hopefully they have atleast one more FW update and get the DTS-HD MA decoding fixed:eek:. I love this player:)! Knock on wood, no playback issues yet other than touchy on scratched SD DVD's:rolleyes::D.

Thanks for the correction guys. It sounds like PCM is overall the best option for Analogue users still though.

Hi bradavon,

This has been answered several times in the official 5000 thread.

PCM, Bitstream (Audiophile or Re-encode) is only for the Digital Output, it have nothing to do with the Analog Multichannel output. See page 37 of your manual.
The Analog Multichannel Output will always reproduce the codec of the sountrack you choose on the disc (except for DTS-HD Master Audio), irrespective of the choice made from the Digital Output.

________ Bob

Hi bradavon,

This has been answered several times in the official 5000 thread.

PCM, Bitstream (Audiophile or Re-encode) is only for the Digital Output, it have nothing to do with the Analog Multichannel output. See page 37 of your manual.
The Analog Multichannel Output will always reproduce the codec of the sountrack you choose on the disc (except for DTS-HD Master Audio), irrespective of the choice made from the Digital Output.

________ Bob

Bob, that post was from June of last year.....Jedi bumped a thread that hand not had a post since last October.......Just make sure you ckeck the post dates ;)..........

Bob, that post was from June of last year.....Jedi bumped a thread that hand not had a post since last October.......Just make sure you ckeck the post dates ;)..........

Thanks,

But I thought of that, and I was kind of thinking, that it will be a good reminder for anyone new, coming to the scene.
I just meant a good advice for newer owners. I hope that I did not interfer with your philosophy. :)

Best regards,

_______
Bob

Thanks,

But I thought that and I was kind of thinking, that it will be a good reminder for anyone new coming to the scene.
I just meant a good advice for newer owners. I hope that I did not interfer with your philosophy. :)

Best regards,

_______
Bob

More to do with ettiquite then philosphy....Usually bumping thread that has been dead that long is a no no....Especially one that has laready been answered......Brad was a frequent poster and was aware of what you posted already ;)......THe best hing to do with threads like this is let them die again...Hopefully people will stop bumping as many people do not looks at post dates and may think there is a new firmware out......

Hey guys, I've been away from the thread for a while and even though I've read back through it, I can't seem to find any mention of a newer release than 1.4. Has Samsung provided something new since then that you are discussing in this thread?

Hey guys, I've been away from the thread for a while and even though I've read back through it, I can't seem to find any mention of a newer release than 1.4. Has Samsung provided something new since then that you are discussing in this thread?

nope. 1.4 is the current release, which IIRC did nothing for the audio.

1.3 was the big "audio" release, as well as making the 5000 BD Profile 1.1.

...

and as an aside, I was all excited when I saw this thread thinking that there was a new update for the 5000, until I saw the 2008 post dates. :(

More to do with ettiquite then philosphy....Usually bumping thread that has been dead that long is a no no....Especially one that has laready been answered......Brad was a frequent poster and was aware of what you posted already ;)......THe best hing to do with threads like this is let them die again...Hopefully people will stop bumping as many people do not looks at post dates and may think there is a new firmware out......

Hi Ph8te,

Thank you very much for the very good advice. You just teach me something that I didn't know. I am still too new in this forum, I guess.
So, next time, I will do as you just told me, and let them DIE a painful death. ;)

By the way, "ettiquite" spelled "etiquette", and "philosphy" spelled "philosophy". ;)

Thanks again & Cheers,

______
Bob

Hi Ph8te,

Thank you very much for the very good advice. You just teach me something that I didn't know. I am still too new in this forum, I guess.
So, next time, I will do as you just told me, and let them DIE a painful death. ;)

By the way, "ettiquite" spelled "etiquette", and "philosphy" spelled "philosophy". ;)

Thanks again & Cheers,

______
Bob

Spelling police?:mad::confused::eek:;):D Yes I am aware of how they are spelled ;o) when typing fast and multi tasking however sometimes they are missed. From what I have seen you have been doing fine on the forums. The bumping rule would have been applied to jedi as he\she is the one who bumped the thead only to "complain" where they could of used the recent posts to do so.

BTW, bumping an old thread is usually OK as long as there is new information that has not been posted elsewhere in a more recent thread and doesnt fit in anything but the old thread. Usually though you want to make people aware in your post that you did bump an old thread.

Lets face it there are not many new people buying this player, most of the people that are here have been here for quite some time. Gettting a thread like this bumped is not good for us "old timers" hearts :P......

Hi Ph8te,

Sorry for my unawareness, but by "bumping an old thread", do you mean: resurrection?

I am learning more as I go, and I do, indeed, feel better when people like you, teach me a thing or two. I do appreciate that a lot.

You take care now, "old timer".

[QUOTE=Lordoftherings;16059503]Hi Ph8te,

Sorry for my unawareness, but by "bumping an old thread", do you mean: resurrection?

QUOTE]


Exactly....It wasnt you who bumped the thread it was jedi, if they didnt do it you would have never replied to a post nearly a year old.......You and others might have though there was something actually new, when in fact there was not. It wasnt your fault at all....

Sometimes you just need to check the dates (especially with posts that have multiple replies) as sometimes these threads do get necrobumped (bumping a thread after it has had no posts after 30-60 days plus) which can get annoying especially if there is nothing new to add to the previous conversation.

The force was not with this jedi. :p

Great information, thanks guys! Hopefully they have atleast one more FW update and get the DTS-HD MA decoding fixed:eek:. I love this player:)! Knock on wood, no playback issues yet other than touchy on scratched SD DVD's:rolleyes::D.

Spelling police?:mad::confused::eek:;):D Yes I am aware of how they are spelled ;o) when typing fast and multi tasking however sometimes they are missed. From what I have seen you have been doing fine on the forums. The bumping rule would have been applied to jedi as he\she is the one who bumped the thead only to "complain" where they could of used the recent posts to do so.

BTW, bumping an old thread is usually OK as long as there is new information that has not been posted elsewhere in a more recent thread and doesnt fit in anything but the old thread. Usually though you want to make people aware in your post that you did bump an old thread.

Lets face it there are not many new people buying this player, most of the people that are here have been here for quite some time. Gettting a thread like this bumped is not good for us "old timers" hearts :P......

The force was not with this jedi. :p

Holy crap guys. My post was thanking the people for the great information in this thread and clearly stated that I hoped "NEW" firmware would come to fix the DTS-HD MA issue. Sorry for bumping a thread. That being said, can't people read the dates of posts or for that matter read at all. When you get a notice of a new post in a thread, novel concept, read it! A whole page of nothing... come on...

Sorry for the "bumping issue" but after reading the thread I wanted to say thanks.

haha, it's alright. It only confuses those who are not paying attention to dates like you mentioned. ;) To me, it's a gray area on forums. I was just giving you a hard time. :)

Sweet! Let's get back to AVS'n... Good times!:):D:cool:

[QUOTE=Lordoftherings;16059503]Hi Ph8te,

Sorry for my unawareness, but by "bumping an old thread", do you mean: resurrection?

QUOTE]


Exactly....It wasnt you who bumped the thread it was jedi, if they didnt do it you would have never replied to a post nearly a year old.......You and others might have though there was something actually new, when in fact there was not. It wasnt your fault at all....

Sometimes you just need to check the dates (especially with posts that have multiple replies) as sometimes these threads do get necrobumped (bumping a thread after it has had no posts after 30-60 days plus) which can get annoying especially if there is nothing new to add to the previous conversation.

Hi Ph8te,

Thank you very much for the clarification. :)

I did not know what "jedi" meant, now I know.

And I will check the dates from now on... ;)

Thanks again & Cheers,

_______
Bob

Holy crap guys. My post was thanking the people for the great information in this thread and clearly stated that I hoped "NEW" firmware would come to fix the DTS-HD MA issue. Sorry for bumping a thread. That being said, can't people read the dates of posts or for that matter read at all. When you get a notice of a new post in a thread, novel concept, read it! A whole page of nothing... come on...

Sorry for the "bumping issue" but after reading the thread I wanted to say thanks.

Hi jedi.master.dre,

Don't sweat it buddy, people are just kidding. :)

I feel that it was my fault, for not paying enough attention to the date.
I did resurrect a thread or two in the past, but I did not know that it was not
always the best solution. Like Ph8te mentioned, sometime it's OK, some other time, it's not.

You don't have to be sorry, you are a good Jedi in my book, and a Master at that too. ;)
So, feel good about yourself Jedi Master. :)

Cheers,

_______
Bob