Hi just applied for CD from samsung for new 1.3 audio firmware
Presently am hooked up via hdmi from Sony XBR52 to my Onxyo TX-SR804 receiver( which i believe is 1.2 receiver ) to sammy 5000 feeding 7.1 spker setup
I realize 1.3 receivers will benefit the most, but can anyone tell me will my audio sound improve with my present 1.2 Onkyo 804 receiver
Presently have sammy 5000 set to Bitstream audiophile
With new 1.3 firmware what setting would benefit me the most PCM, Reincode or Audiophile
Am curious If anyone out there with 1.2 receiver hooked up HDMI with new 1.3 firmware can hear any audio improvement and what setting is 5000 in
Any thoughts from anyone would be appreciated

Martin

I don't even have a Sammy, and I can tell you that it will benefit due to being able to hear Dolby TrueHD in more than 2 channels.

PCM is definitely the best setup for you. This way you will internally decode Dolby TrueHD and send PCM to your Onkyo. PCM will be PCM. DTS-HD MA/HR will have its core (full bit-rate DTS) converted to PCM. No biggie. Reincode is for those of us still using optical and digital coax. Audiophile (terrible term) is for those who like to bitstream.

Yes:

* TrueHD can be on-board decoded and sent out as losssless PCM over HDMI (any version) or Analogue
* 1.5Mps Dolby Digital Plus can be on-board decoded (or bitstreamed) and sent out as 1.5Mbps PCM over HDMI (any version) or Analogue

Prior to the 1.3 firmware DD Plus was down converted to 640Kbps DD. I think that's it, otherwise audio wise they're the same. I suspect the new firmware also fixes some general bugs too, such as disc problems.

Presently have sammy 5000 set to Bitstream audiophile
With new 1.3 firmware what setting would benefit me the most PCM, Reincode or Audiophile
PCM. Why? -

PCM - TrueHD sent out as lossless PCM Multi-channel
Audiophile - TrueHD sent out as PCM 2.0 (I'm pretty sure)
Re-encode - TrueHD sent out as Lossy DTS Multi-channel

The other audio formats it doesn't make much difference between PCM and Audiophile. DTS-HD HR/MA needs HDMI 1.3 so you'll just get the DTS Core. With a HDMI Amp there shouldn't be any need to ever use Re-encode, it's more for SPDIF Amps.

EDIT: I see Allargon has said pretty much the same thing as me.

Hi thanks for information on best sammy setting ( PCM ) for 1.3 firmware with onkyo 1.2 receiver reguarding best results for True HD Audio
Will follow advice when finish upgrade to 1.3
If i can impose on u gentleman for i more question
Most of my priority blu-ray tracks ( Sony , Disney etc ) are
English PCM 5.1 Surround / 16-bit or 24-bit / 4. or 6.9 mbps
Should i choose same setting PCM on sammy 5000 when listening to those tracks, and will there be any kind of audio improvement listening to the PCM tracks on blu-ray disks after the 1.3 firmware

Please pardon my lack of audio knowledge
Your input is sincerely appreciated
Martin

Should i choose same setting PCM on sammy 5000 when listening to those tracks
Specifically talking about PCM encoded tracks I don't think it matters between "Audiophile" and "PCM". "Re-encode" will give you Lossy 1.5Mbps DTS but the other two you'll get Lossless PCM.

PCM cannot be Bitstreamed (i.e - Audiophile) as it's already in raw PCM form so I imagine both will give you Lossless PCM. The PCM/Audiophile setting is more for TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS/DD/DD+ and how it handles those. TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS/DD/DD+ are all codecs that ultimately need decoding into PCM (by the Player or Amp). PCM is already decoded (hence the term Uncompressed PCM).

TrueHD/DTS-HD/DTS/DD/DD+ are like an MP3 file and PCM is like an Audio CD. That's PCM covered, TrueHD however will give you (on an Amp that doesn't have HDMI 1.3):

PCM - Lossless PCM Multi-Channel
Audiophile - PCM 2 Channel (I think it's Lossless but regardless it's only 2 Channel)

It basically goes like this:

SPDIF Amps: DTS Re-encode
HDMI 1.0-1.2 Amps: PCM
HDMI 1.3 Amps (presuming it also supports TrueHD/DTS-HD): Audiophile

This also applies to the LG BH200 where Audiophile is called "Primary Pass-Thru".

When set to PCM the Player does all the decoding and when set to Audiophile the Player does no decoding and sends out a digital bitstream signal for the Amp to decode.

The reason why TrueHD (when set as PCM) gives you lossless PCM is because the Samsung Player can decode TrueHD to Lossless Multi-Channel PCM which any HDMI Amp can understand, but when set to Audiophile your HDMI 1.2 Amp cannot understand the TrueHD signal it's receiving so it gives you 2 Channel PCM.

With a HDMI 1.0-1.2 Amp all you're really losing out on is DTS-HD HR/MA, instead you'll get the Lossy 1.5Mbps DTS Core. TrueHD and PCM are effectively the same on any HDMI or Analogue Multi-Ch Amp.

and will there be any kind of audio improvement listening to the PCM tracks on blu-ray disks after the 1.3 firmware
Nope, not as far as I'm aware. PCM could be sent out in Lossless Multi-Ch form before and will continue to do so with the 1.3 firmware.

Please pardon my lack of audio knowledge
Your input is sincerely appreciated
No worries, glad I can help. I hope I've not blinded you with science.

To clarify I don't own a Samsung (I own an LG) so someone like Vinnie is better placed to confirm what I say is correct (but I'm sure I am correct). The way the Samsung and LG work in respect of audio, is the same.

You did well. :D The only caveat is someone (spanbauer, I believe) reported that the 5000 in audiophile mode may be transmitting TrueHD to their 1.2 HDMI receiver as multichannel PCM. I'm having trouble recalling but this might have only been on Blu-rays that have the hidden Dolby Digital track (for the sake of backward compatibility in this very scenario). I don't remember what was getting transmitted on HD DVDs with TrueHD selected in the same scenario. I am more familiar with how the 5000 works when utilizing a HDMI 1.3, hence my reluctance to say more than I know in this thread. :o

EDIT: Yes, spanbauer made the finding initially with a few others confirming: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13991016#post13991016

To conclude, it would appear that Audiophile mode on an HDMI 1.2 receiver will enable the player to decode the TrueHD stream (on HD DVDs) and send it to said receiver as PCM multichannel. This is the only time I would consider the lack of a hidden Dolby Digital stream a blessing. :D

For Blu-ray, it will simply bitstream the hidden Dolby Digital track to your receiver, thereby depriving you of lossless audio. PCM mode will keep you from having to switch back and forth between these modes depending on the disc.

You did well. :D
Why thank you sir :D.

That's surprising to hear, Audiophile does allow some on-board decoding, but there you go, it's in black and white.

It sounds like PCM is still the way to go for Non-HDMI 1.3, HDMI Amps though.

Bradavon on my 1.2 receiver i'd be using optical for the sound from the receiver and running the HDMI directly to the plasma, does that mean I would be better off running in re-encode option rather than PMC setting to play my dvd's in 5.1 dd & dts surround??

Michael

Bradavon on my 1.2 receiver i'd be using optical for the sound from the receiver and running the HDMI directly to the plasma, does that mean I would be better off running in re-encode option rather than PMC setting to play my dvd's in 5.1 dd & dts surround??

Michael


You should use HDMI with PCM mode. Optical will not pass lossless TrueHD 5.1 or LPCM 5.1. You don't need re-encode if you use PCM mode.

Thanks for the reply, PCM it will be.

Yeah you want to be routing the HDMI cable through your Amp then to your TV. If you want to stick with Optical then Re-encode is the way to go.

Hi Bradavon, when i asked you if there would be any kind of improvement on PCM blu-Ray tracks with new 1.3 firmware you said no saying PCM can be sent out in lossless Multi- channel before and will continue to do so
Reason im asking right now with 1.2 firmware with sammy 5000 in PCM mode, when i access LPCM track on say 300 movie blu-ray disk
It sounds great but no sound from rear back spkers only rear side
My 1.1 Onkyo avr reads MCH 48 K
It seams to be that way on most of my PCM tracks when i select LPCM i have no rear back sound
Thats why was wondering if with 1.3 firmware would i get audio from alll 7.1 package
Or is that the way its supposed to be when u access LPCM you only get 5.1 spkers setup

Hope i explained myself OK without making it to complicated
Marty

Hi Bradavon, when i asked you if there would be any kind of improvement on PCM blu-Ray tracks with new 1.3 firmware you said no saying PCM can be sent out in lossless Multi- channel before and will continue to do so
Reason im asking right now with 1.2 firmware with sammy 5000 in PCM mode, when i access LPCM track on say 300 movie blu-ray disk
It sounds great but no sound from rear back spkers only rear side
My 1.1 Onkyo avr reads MCH 48 K
It seams to be that way on most of my PCM tracks when i select LPCM i have no rear back sound
Thats why was wondering if with 1.3 firmware would i get audio from alll 7.1 package
Or is that the way its supposed to be when u access LPCM you only get 5.1 spkers setup

Hope i explained myself OK without making it to complicated
Marty

Marty,

1st you want to make sure that the tracks you listen to are in fact 7.1 PCM tracks.....If you are listening to a 5.1 track the only way you are going to get 7.1 is by matrixing the back 2 channels.....Also, for the Samsung you want to make sure that the speaker setup is correct in the System Settings.....RIght now there is only 9 7.1 LPCM discs....As far as 300 goes I believe that is only a 5.1 discs so you shouldnt hear anything but 5.1 channels.

Wits a 7.1 track you should get 7.1 sound when available (exceot fir DTS MA tracks which are only 5.1 for everything except bitstreaming to a 1.3 receiver.

Really the 5k has IIRC the 5K has never had an issue with PCM tracks, its laways been TrueHD and DTS-MA.....Now with the 5K set to PCM you should hear the TrueHD 5.1 track on your 1.2 player (300 for instance also has a TrueHD track)......YOu will see it displayed as PCM since that how it is being sent to your receiver since the player is doing the decoding......

YOu can see what disc has what tracks here:
http://www.blu-raystats.com/stats.php