Hello all,

I am looking for a cheap sub for a temporary setup. I am an idiot when it comes to audio equipment, so I need help choosing. Below are several subs I found in the right price range with their current deals (if you know of a better deal elsewhere, please feel free to let me know). I pasted some additional information about the room and equipment below this list if this is of any help to you.

Bic H100 - $249
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0006DNW6U?ie=UTF8&condition=new&tag=dealtime-ce-mpfeed-20&creative=380345&creativeASIN=B0006DNW6U&linkCode=asm

Outlaw LFM-2 $199
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm2.html


HSU STF-1 $249
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html

x-sub $199
http://**********/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=41&category_id=9&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37


Is it worth going to these? If so, why (remember, this is a temporary setup)

Elemental Designs A2-250 $325
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?products_id=406

HSU STF-2 $349
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html


The sub should match with Fluance AV-HTB+ 5.1 and a Denon AVR 1602/682 in a room that is approximately 12x11. The bulk of the use will be for TV/movies with some use for gaming and PC. This is a temporary setup for someone else. To the best of my knowledge, the only sub this person has ever spent any time with is the Klipsch promedia 5.1, so I am assuming anything on this list is probably better.

The Outlaw LFM-2 or the X-sub (if you can get one any time soon) would be the best bargains for a temp sub right now in my opinion. They happen to be the lowest priced on your list, but they are also quite good.

Add the eD A2-300 to that list for only $315 on sale. According to Craig's ranking, it beats all of the above for HT applications. I have one on order hopefully coming this week.
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=407

I also have an eD A2-300 on order, it is in final assembly. I'm looking forward to trying it out, according to all reviews I've read, it is the best of all the budget subs...

What about the HSU MBM-12?

What about the HSU MBM-12?

Umm...it's not a real sub. The "Mid Bass Module 12" is designed for mid bass ;). It certainly has viable applications, but it is meant to be used in conjunction with another "true" sub, because it only extends down to ~50hz. Not to mention it costs a lot more than the OP wants to spend anyway.

I agree with those who are recommending the eD A2-300. At $315 including shipping, it should give the most impact you can get at that price. Compared to the Klipsch Pro Media, the difference will be night and day :D. The STF-2 is also a good choice, but the eD will probably give more bang for your buck.

What are we defining as "temporary"? If it's for like a year, then any of the better ones would be fine. If "temporary" is a month, I wouldn't look at eD or AV123, as their delivery times may exceed that.

What are we defining as "temporary"? If it's for like a year, then any of the better ones would be fine. If "temporary" is a month, I wouldn't look at eD or AV123, as their delivery times may exceed that.

Yup...also keep in mind the $199 price for the x-Sub from av123 is for the satin black version--ones w/ wood veneers cost more. I placed an order for a satin black x-sub in the middle of April; they were on back order, so I ended up canceling a couple weeks later. I checked out of curiosity last week, and the satin black models still aren't available...

Someone asked what I meant by temporary and the timeframe.

Temporary - This setup should be operational for about 3 months, but it would not surprise me if it was up for a year. The equipment will then be handed down to a relative, so someone will be using it for years.

Time Frame - I need to have the subwoofer delivered by the end of the month.

Thanks for the inputs thus far.

OhioMike - isn't the one you are recommending the same one on my list?

OhioMike - isn't the one you are recommending the same one on my list?

You mentioned the A2-250. It uses a 10" driver and a different shaped enclosure. The A2-300 uses a 12" driver and should be a little more powerful, but it's slightly larger. Both have 200W amps. For the money, the A2-300 is a no-brainer unless you can't accommodate its larger size.

I have th BIC H100. I love it and it will be my permanent sub. Just my 2c.

You mentioned the A2-250. It uses a 10" driver and a different shaped enclosure. The A2-300 uses a 12" driver and should be a little more powerful, but it's slightly larger. Both have 200W amps. For the money, the A2-300 is a no-brainer unless you can't accommodate its larger size.

I'll say this, the ONLY way I've ever recommended an A3-250 over an A2-300 when they were the same price was because someone wanted to stick it under an end table or something.

As the least expensive sub we currently offer...well...yeah, unless you REALLY like the small form factor, get the A2-300...should the choice come down to a product from us ;)

I'll say this, the ONLY way I've ever recommended an A3-250 over an A2-300 when they were the same price was because someone wanted to stick it under an end table or something.

As the least expensive sub we currently offer...well...yeah, unless you REALLY like the small form factor, get the A2-300...should the choice come down to a product from us ;)

So if you wouldn't even recommend the A3-250 over the A2-300, you surely wouldn't recommend the A2-250 over the A2-300.

jscamp: The A2-300 is a bargain at its normal $375 price tag. On sale for $315 it's an absolute steal. If you're on a relatively low budget, the A2-300 is the obvious sub to purchase right now IMO.

Regarding the A2-300, how would I connect it to the reciever? I looked at the picture on the web site and does not look like the connectors on the reciever. I attached a pdf containing the pertinent pages of the receiver manual so you can see what I mean.

I realize this is probably my ignorance, but it is important to make sure that any solutions to be considered are possible. If there is a reason this will not work or will not provide good results, please let me know.


Thanks!

Regarding the A2-300, how would I connect it to the reciever? I looked at the picture on the web site and does not look like the connectors on the reciever. I attached a pdf containing the pertinent pages of the receiver manual so you can see what I mean.

I realize this is probably my ignorance, but it is important to make sure that any solutions to be considered are possible. If there is a reason this will not work or will not provide good results, please let me know.


Thanks!

Single subwoofer output to either 1 of the L/R Line In jacks. You could also use a Y-splitter to fill both inputs.

It'll work just fine :)

Yeah, it's on page 4 of that PDF. Look at the column of inputs/outputs labeled "Preout." The subwoofer output is the top one. Use that. :)

OhioMike - I finally figured out what the Craig rankings are, but other than the obvious rank, I have no idea what they mean. The other thing is that not all the items I have listed or that have been discussed on included on the list, so I am not sure if that means the one's on the list are better or if the ones not included were not reviewed.

Chris Schempp - where do I find an independent review of this sub? It looks like you work for the company, so I am not sure what to make of your recommendation over competing products.

By the way, is it possible to get too much sub for the speakers one has or is it always best to get the best sub?

By the way, is it possible to get too much sub for the speakers one has or is it always best to get the best sub?

I have built DIY subs in two rooms, one is an IB array and I also have twin TC2K 15" ported subs. Its insane the SQ and SPL I have with them. Sadly you will find Mains lacking in performance and you will want to upgrade sooner then later.

Not wanting to spend 5K+ on new mains, I will be building some serious Mains that will keep up with my Subs in the next year. Luckily with DIY I can get performance for a fraction of the cost :D

Long story short, you will want to upgrade other speakers once you upgrade your sub....its from there is just A VICIOUS CYCLE ;)

By the way, is it possible to get too much sub for the speakers one has or is it always best to get the best sub?

Getting a bigger, better sub than you think you might need is good for a couple of reasons. It will be higher quality and probably sound far better than a cheap sub, and it will also be a bit more "future proof." If you end up having a larger room in the future, for example, it will be much more capable of performing well.

It is possible to get a sub that can outperform and overwhelm your mains. However, assuming you calibrate the subwoofer properly (and don't listen so loudly as to cause your mains to struggle), this extra oomph from the high quality sub translates into lower distortion, move even frequency response, and far better dynamic capabilities. While you might not be using the full output capabilities of the sub, this just means that the sub has to work less hard to achieve the SPL you want, which allows it to be more linear, controlled, and dynamic.

I'd strongly recommend getting the best sub you can afford. Especially in the <$1000 range, every $100-$200 more spent on a sub can get you something in a completely different performance class than before. The jump from a $200 to $350 sub can be quite dramatic. Again, as an all around performer, the A2-300 is an incredible bargain at only $315 shipped. I don't personally own it, but from the posts I've seen on AVS by A2-300 owners, it's a heck of a performer at a budget cost. Good luck in picking a sub, but keep in mind that in relatively low budget subs, you really do get what you pay for.

Was able to get an earthquake minime P8 sub for $300 new last week. Thats the best bang for the buck.

Form factor like sunfire but less powerful. I cant beleive i got the sub for $300

You may also consider the Acculine A-Sub also around $300+shipping. It was originally on the older craigsub list with about the same rating as the A2-300, although both are not on the current list. The new production version available now is a bit more powerful than the prior version, and craigsub has posted a thread on his Tweakcity forum ("Because this place is about you ...") saying that he will be testing this new one. I have one and think it's a good deal.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=68

The rankings show a performance scale for most of the highest recommended subs in various price categories. They allow you to see how a sub at one price stands up against another sub at the same or different price. You can compare the various subs to see what your dollar will buy you and whether or not another $100 bucks will be worth going higher up.
The LFM 2 and STF-1 will be very close in comparison with the X-sub. The STF-2 will be a little higher, about on-line with the PB10-NSD and A2-300.
You can also compare as to which sub is best for your application, HT vs Music.
HT is 95% for me, so I went with the highest rated HT sub in my budget (A2-300). If someone wanted more musicallity in this price range, then a pair of X-Sub's or VTF-2 MKIII would be the better choices.
The rankings are just another piece of the puzzle and a great point of referrence to go along with the rest of your research.
Hope this helps a bit.

Chris Schempp - where do I find an independent review of this sub? It looks like you work for the company, so I am not sure what to make of your recommendation over competing products.

nono...I wasn't recommending one of ours over anything else...just recommending one of ours over the one you had listed due to the fact that it would have more output and be cheaper.

As for a review, the only person that I know of that's posted a "review" was Craig. We don't send our stuff to professionals, Craig paid just like everyone else.

penngray - what do the acronyms SQ and SPL mean? What is an IB Array? Building one is not a bad idea, but not immediately. Just out of curiosity, is there a good reference that will show me the parts, what they do, and how to select quality?

Chris009 - where did you get the sub? How does it rate on Craig's?

Swoodall2 - I read somewhere that subs are getting better every year, so would that mean that a rating of 83 on Craigs today is worth more than a rating of 83 yesterday? Would this be the reason your recommended sub is no longer on the list?

lalakerfan34 - what exactly is involved in tuning a sub and are their such differences in doing so between subs that I should add this to the criteria for selecting a sub (Remember, I know very little about audio).

OhioMike - What I am confused about with Craig's rankings is how he determines the rankings. And also, is a sub with an 83 ranking 6% better than a sub with a 78 score?

Chris Schempp - That is interesting. Why doesn't Elemental Designs send equipment for reviews? My understanding is that your company has been around for awhile and been rather successful in the auto market, so one would assume that it would no longer break the bank to do so.

Chris Schempp - That is interesting. Why doesn't Elemental Designs send equipment for reviews? My understanding is that your company has been around for awhile and been rather successful in the auto market, so one would assume that it would no longer break the bank to do so.

Honestly, with every review we've ever had a magazine do, we get nothing in return, other than paying for advertising in said magazine. It might be something we do in the future, but always in the past it's basically been an awesome way to throw money away for nothing.

Also, you have to give them the product, probably for them to keep, and not send something to a paying customer.

It's not even an option until we've got everything shipping same day.

To decide the rankings, I believe he used a blind test with a panel of professional judges (sub gods). They listened to each sub and assigned points based on performance of many different attributes, sound quality, output, extension and so on. It has been said that 3 points will actually equate to about a 10-12% improvement in overall quality. The BIC H-100 is a great sub, but those above it are just better throughout various categories according to the panel.

*AGAIN* This list is neither all incompassing or devoid of human error and personal taste. It is a resource for research (a pretty damn good one), but still just one piece of research.

Word of mouth is still the best advertising. Free and devoid of sponsorship and incentives. Much more meaningful than any article will ever be. Hopefully you can add me to the horde of raving fans very very soon Chris, can't wait for that A2-300 to start rockin' my house.

penngray - what do the acronyms SQ and SPL mean? What is an IB Array? Building one is not a bad idea, but not immediately. Just out of curiosity, is there a good reference that will show me the parts, what they do, and how to select quality?


SQ - Sound Quality
SPL - Sound Pressure Level, its how loud it goes!!

Doing DIY does take tools and a some minor wood skills but the performance is off the charts and it can be really cheap if you have tools already and you dont mind large boxes in your room ;) Smaller high performance box designs will cost a little more money. DIY speaker/sub forum has all your answers.

IBs are Infinite Baffles and here is a great link for all the info http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/index.html, I have 4 18" woofers in my family room ceiling powered by 2000W, Its the best sub system I have heard period.

Chris Schempp - is your company actually shipping these subs today as noted on the site?

Word of mouth is still the best advertising. Free and devoid of sponsorship and incentives. Much more meaningful than any article will ever be. Hopefully you can add me to the horde of raving fans very very soon Chris, can't wait for that A2-300 to start rockin' my house.

Yeah, my impression is that magazines praise any overpriced mediocrity they review like its the holy grail

Chris Schempp - is your company actually shipping these subs today as noted on the site?

We are...kind of.

We ordered the corners about a week and a half ago so they should show up sometime in the next two days or so and we can get another 4 of them out of here with the corners we have.

As soon as the corners are in stock, these things become same day shippable.

Chris Schempp - so, what is the backorder like?

Anyone - what should I be looking for in a cable for a sub. I am guessing 20 feet would cover any configuration I would require.

I noticed I can get a stock cable from Elemental Designs for about $50
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_85_86&products_id=318
Parts Express sells a 25 footer from Dayton for about $26
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-644&vReviewShow=1&vReviewRand=5330480
HSU Research sells a 20 foot cable from Hosa Technology for $15
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/cable.html

I am sure there are a zillion other options, but what do I really need here? What is important and why?

I bought the A2-300 about a month or so ago and it really is a great sub. My girlfriend is really getting tired of me watching action movies to get some nice room shaking explosions lol. I don't even have it in an ideal room location and it still can fill the space I want it to very well. And I like the downward firing so my cats don't get tempted to tear up the driver.

Only thing I would double check is the space you have for a sub. eD subs are BIG and I barely had the room for my A2-300 in my living room spot.

Chris Schempp - so, what is the backorder like?

Anyone - what should I be looking for in a cable for a sub. I am guessing 20 feet would cover any configuration I would require.

I noticed I can get a stock cable from Elemental Designs for about $50
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_85_86&products_id=318
Parts Express sells a 25 footer from Dayton for about $26
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-644&vReviewShow=1&vReviewRand=5330480
HSU Research sells a 20 foot cable from Hosa Technology for $15
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/cable.html

I am sure there are a zillion other options, but what do I really need here? What is important and why?

Honestly, the regular RCA cables from monoprice are just fine for RCA subwoofer cables, you don't need a fancy one unless you have alot of interference from other components.

What I did was run a single RCA cable from my sub pre-out on my receiver into a RCA Y-splitter so I can plug into both inputs (L/R) on the sub. This gives you around +3 dB boost over just plugging into one of the inputs on the sub.

The only warning I'd give if you buy the A3-200 for a temp sub is that it may be a bit unwieldy in that situation. I believe it is the same form factor as the A3-300 (which I have) and I am not looking forward to moving around that 85 lbs box. If you want something that is easily handed off to someone else than something like the X-sub may be a good bet. If you really want the most you can get for your money in the sub $350 price range I don't think you'll beat the A3-200. Who ever you end up buying the sub for may find the A2-300 good enough to keep with their future system though. I can't see myself upgrading my sub unless I move into a house with a monster theater room.

Swoodall2 - I read somewhere that subs are getting better every year, so would that mean that a rating of 83 on Craigs today is worth more than a rating of 83 yesterday? Would this be the reason your recommended sub is no longer on the list?
I won't speak for Craig, but if he intends to keep them all on one list it would make sense for the ratings to stay comperable.

As far as I know, the only reason it was taken off the list was because it sold out and was unavailable for 6+ months while the new version was coming into the pipeline.

Chris Schempp - so, what is the backorder like?



Sorry, internet was down for the last hour or so.

We should have 3 extra waiting to go out as of now since I waaaay underestimated how many were out there :)

Basically the only "backorder" right now is us getting shipping supplies.

Chris Schempp: Sold

Maytime: I am trying to figure out why using a Y-splitter would improve things. Isn't the same thing occuring internally with the regular RCA out on the sub?

sent you a pm jscamp.

Chris Schempp: Sold

Maytime: I am trying to figure out why using a Y-splitter would improve things. Isn't the same thing occuring internally with the regular RCA out on the sub?

You'd see a ~3dB increase in output.

But more than that, the auto on MAY not function properly with only one input fed. Have I ever seen it with an A2? No. Is it possible? Yes.

I'd say no Y-splitter first...if for some reason the thing doesn't automatically turn on at lower volume levels, then Radio Shack + $1. It'd definitely be annoying to have to crank it every time you wanted the sub to turn on.

Wow, that is one HELLUVA nice temporary sub! What is the permanent sub going to be in the future?

Chris Schempp - I am not sure I understand the last line of your last post


Corwinnii - I am doing the setup for a purpose. This setup is mainly put together with a bunch of things I had around the house. I just did not have a sub. If I choose to keep it afterward, which I might since I do not have a home theater, then I would probably get fairly serious about it. There is actually a lot more to this setup than we are discussing, so there would be some advantage to upgrading the overall sound system. I have a feeling that once I got started upgrading various things that I would eventually come back to re-examine the sub. Right now, I am just too green to know the difference.

Basically the LT/200 sums the two inputs, both left and right. Without feeding both of them, the input signal is seen as being 3dB low. I would suggest just hooking up from the Subwoofer OUT on the AVR to either the left or the right Line IN at first to see if it powers on appropriately for you.

If, for some reason, the auto on isn't sensing enough voltage at normal listening levels, you'd have to briefly crank the AVR master volume until the subwoofer voltage was high enough to turn on the amp. The easy solution to that, should it happen, is to purchase a $1 y-splitter from Radio Shack.