I ran a little experiment tonight. I've finally set up a very decent blend with my CRT rig (2 x modded, frankenyoked 9500LC Ultra w/ HD10F lenses).

I used my digital projector (Panasonic AE2000) to display a reference grid to align geometry on the Marquees. After some initial testing, I decided to converge the three projectors (the CRT blend and the Panny).

WOW. Here's some pictures!

Windows Desktop on CRT:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7610/desktopcrtww2.jpg

Windows Desktop on digital:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1851/desktopae2000zu4.jpg

Windows Desktop on CRT AND digital:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9057/desktopae2000crtdz5.jpg


2001 A Space Odyssey on CRT:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/797/2001asocrtdw9.jpg

2001 A Space Odyssey on digital:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5059/2001asoae2000go0.jpg

2001 A Space Odyssey on CRT AND digital:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1617/2001asoae2000crttm2.jpg


King Kong on CRT:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9550/kkcrtkq2.jpg

King Kong on digital:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9615/kkae2000cs5.jpg

King Kong on CRT AND digital:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6034/kkae2000crtfz5.jpg

Ratatouille on CRT:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2711/ratatouillecrtgo1.jpg

Ratatouille on digital:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5815/ratatouilleae2000xs7.jpg

Ratatouille on CRT AND digital:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6048/ratatouilleae2000crtbz6.jpg

I made a lot of pictures - however I didn't use the self-timer on the camera and most of them are defocused/blurred. I will take a few more with the timer when time allows!

I haven't measured the ftL I got when stacking the CRT and digital but all I can say OH BOY! This is BRIGHT!!!

wow .. go the hybrid stack!

You can tell though your colors a better with the CRT alone, the Digital has a yellow tint to the whites but it looks very good Andreas!!!!!

Athanasios

So, what's the verdict Andres? You plan on running it like this or you're just playing?

I did this awhile back. It's pretty neat, but a CRT by itself is still better for a regular size screen for darker scenes. Now, if you start running a huge screen this could be quite useful. BTW, the difference in brightness in person is far more dramatic.

Honestly I didn't expect the "hybrid stack" to look this good.

I expected it to look softer than the CRT blend; however the digital pixel structure gives the impression of adding sharpness; not the contrary.

There are a number of things you cannot easily see from the pictures:

- The CRT blend alone is significantly brighter than the AE2000. I am running contrast at 75; which is bright enough... but when you add the extra ftL of the digital, wow, I think I am beginning to understand all those guys who want >20 ftL no matter what.

- Digital black level still sucks big time compared to CRT. I guess my camera is doing something there, because on the real thing, the 2001 A Space Odyssey and also on the Ratatouille pictures the CRT picture just floats on the screen, and when you add the digital to the equation it destroys that.

So am I going to run this normally? I'll give it a try for any movie I know it doesn't contain any "CRT moments". E.g. I wouldn't want to watch Star Wars (or any space movie), Alien vs. Predator, Blade Runner, Underworld, or The Descent using the digital projector; but I'd be OK watching Casino Royale and other movies that have a consistent high APL in general.

There are a number of things you cannot easily see from the pictures:

- The CRT blend alone is significantly brighter than the AE2000.
But in your pictures the digital is brighter than the CRT blend.

- Digital black level still sucks big time compared to CRT. I guess my camera is doing something there, because on the real thing, the 2001 A Space Odyssey and also on the Ratatouille pictures the CRT picture just floats on the screen, and when you add the digital to the equation it destroys that.
In the pictures they look almost identical.

So I would say that the screenshots are really misleading unfortunately as they don't represent what you're actually seeing in person. In fact they're doing the opposite! If your camera's set to automatic mode then it'll do all sorts of auto exposure stuff that'll make most pictures look the same.

Sorry, but I find the pictures really really misleading as you've stated that they're the opposite of what you're actually seeing. You'd be better off not posting screenshots but instead describing what you're seeing.

Kal

I think by now everybody knows that screenshots are not indicative of performance, but still, they are cool. :D:D:D

One thing that screenshots do capture is the sharpness performance of both setups. Sure there is some softening introduced by the camera, but at least you can compare side by side how sharp each setup is relative to each other.

Antorsae,

First, this is the kind of crazy thing I might do. Therefore, thumbs up! :D

Second, could you grab some really close-up shots showing the pixel structure (or lack thereof) on the CRT / LCD / CRT+LCD? I'm curious to see how it works. I'm thinking about doing something along these lines, but basically just for grins - although if it really cranks the brightness it might be worth it for viewing in sub-optimal conditions (say, HD sports or something). I'm only running a single 8"er, though, so I'm not sure how much difference the CRT would make vs. a 1k+ lumen LCD/DLP.

I tried it also but with one crt and my old crap sony VPLW400Q, that had the hexagonal pixels. it was brighter but i felt like the digital washed out the blacks and it was so bright the crt couldnt hide the digitals pixels. But it did work great for geometry set up, thats why i keep it around.

Athanasios

I tried it also but with one crt and my old crap sony VPLW400Q, that had the hexagonal pixels. it was brighter but i felt like the digital washed out the blacks and it was so bright the crt couldnt hide the digitals pixels. But it did work great for geometry set up, thats why i keep it around.

Athanasios

Hexagonal pixels? That sounds awesome!

But, yeah, for geometry and maybe gaming I'd like to have a digital hanging right under the CRT. As it is, it's a pain in the ass, because I don't really have enough sources to drive everything well. I've got two outputs from the HTPC, but one of them has to go to the monitor in the equipment closet, and the other obviously to the CRT. And I've got an RGBH splitter now, but I was planning on using that to split the signal from my main computer in the office behind the wall from the HT, while retaining dual outputs in the office. So that leaves me no source to drive the digital PJ, except hauling my laptop over. It does have a vga pass-through, but I have to think it would murder the image. Eh... I could always set up another computer to run the digital, but then I couldn't use it for gaming, etc etc etc... :eek:

If Andres was to manually setup his camera to have identical exposures etc.... then the differences would be more reflective of what he is describing.

Care to post some shots this way Andres?

I will use the manual mode in the camera and post updated pictures.

So....a new record for the most projectors at once in a domestic home?

You don't have global warming in Spain then? It's using what..2000 watts on the projectors alone?

One is a luxury, why do you need 3?

One is a luxury, why do you need 3?
Who needs 1 even?

The two CRTs kind of heal up the cinema room in winter... so I don't need to turn on the heater :-) Now in summer this is another thing...

So....a new record for the most projectors at once in a domestic home?

You don't have global warming in Spain then? It's using what..2000 watts on the projectors alone?

One is a luxury, why do you need 3?

Feel free to get rid of yours to make up the difference.

Otherwise, keep your sanctimonious attitude to yourself. You can make your decisions and we can make ours.

I have 21 horses three dexter cows and various other live stock:eek:, they put out more emissions than it takes for him to run his theater:mad:. so prosecute me for destroying the world by feeding my livestock everyday.:cool:

This is a very interesting idea but not sure I would run something like this all the time.

Honestly, I think the Panny looks the best just by itself, especially with the desktop.

This is the sort of thing that does cause me to wonder whether I should be continuing to still use my 9" projector or look into the current crop of digitals.

pretty cool. I'm just getting a Samsung dlp to go along with my G70.

I ordered a splitter so that I could watch the crt for the dark movies and the dlp for the brighter ones without plugging and unplugging my hdmi from the processor.

I'll certainly give it a shot and see what happens. You might have stumbled onto something here Antorsea.

whoops, one problem. The crt runs at a higher refresh rate than the dlp. rats.

never mind.

Honestly, I think the Panny looks the best just by itself, especially with the desktop.

This is the sort of thing that does cause me to wonder whether I should be continuing to still use my 9" projector or look into the current crop of digitals.

The screenshots don't represent the reality. I agree the Panny looks better in the screenshots, but in reality it is just sharper... but has worse color, is dimmer and has gray blacks compared to the panny (but yes it is sharper).

I watched Star Wars III yesterday. Let me just say the Panny was not connected :)

I don't speak for others, but for me the effort of setting and tweaking a blend pays of for getting the PQ I am getting.

Forgive my ignorance but it seems like you will loose total FTB that most CRT owners have come to love and the main reason for owning one, yes it will be brighter and perhaps sharper but I don’t really see an advantage other than that, and the blacks will be no better than a digital, am I missing something here? It seems like setup and drift might be a challenge too, at least when stacking 2 CRT they more or less drift at the same rate, where a digital will have virtually no drift.

Mike

Watching a movie with 3 projectors is almost a curiosity and increasingly difficult to do consistently. I said for movies which don't have low APL scenes is worth doing given the extra brightness, but that's it. If that is really the case I'd get a bright 3 chip DLP for those movies and the rest with the blend - but I cannot justify an investment bigger than the blend (Sim2 HT5000) only for maybe 30% of the movies.

For me the eye opener has been the new dimension additional brightness brings to the table.

I love brightness and I love FTB too. Ideally I'd want all in a single box that does all but it doesn't exist (price aside).

I'm with you any I think many in the CRT crowd here - I am not ready to trade off FTB or 3D in low APL scenes, so I'm running the blend.

Watching a movie with 3 projectors is almost a curiosity and increasingly difficult to do consistently. I said for movies which don't have low APL scenes is worth doing given the extra brightness, but that's it. If that is really the case I'd get a bright 3 chip DLP for those movies and the rest with the blend - but I cannot justify an investment bigger than the blend (Sim2 HT5000) only for maybe 30% of the movies.

For me the eye opener has been the new dimension additional brightness brings to the table.

I love brightness and I love FTB too. Ideally I'd want all in a single box that does all but it doesn't exist (price aside).

I'm with you any I think many in the CRT crowd here - I am not ready to trade off FTB or 3D in low APL scenes, so I'm running the blend.

I am curious what size screen are you using that would make a difference?

I don’t know if you are running any kind of gamma boost on your CRT but for me it really made a huge difference at the low end without loosing FTB, and the cost is very low about $120 for the Box 1021. Here is a shot that shows with and without gamma boost. Here again the screen shots don't tell all, in person the difference is more obvious.


http://acdnow.com/ScreenShots/Box1021/KorbenLeeloowiths.jpg

http://acdnow.com/ScreenShots/Box1021/KorbenLeeloowithouts.jpg

Mike

Mike - right now I am running ~4 meters wide.
...and yes, I use Moome HDMI VIM w/ gamma boost.
Gamma boost is a must have for CRT projectors!

Mike - right now I am running ~4 meters wide.
...and yes, I use Moome HDMI VIM w/ gamma boost.
Gamma boost is a must have for CRT projectors!

WOW that is big, yes a stack would then make a lot of sense.

Mike

I do have one other question regarding motion artifacts. This has been one of my problems with digitals. Do you see any issues with artifacts and is there any lag between the CRT and digital in fast action scenes?

Mike

To be honest I haven't run the "hybrid stack" enough to determine this.

The CRT is just (imho) transparent to fast motion, the Panny doesn't create artifacts but it is less detailed when there's fast action. I've only noticed this on games, not on movies (24 fps).