New Mythbuntu build

[jimsiff]

I'm about to ditch DirecTV and my HR10-250 Tivo in favor of OTA ATSC and Myth. I'd like a HTPC/DVR built around a reasonably high WAF acceptable case, HDHomerun, and a no-frills budget.

My base requirements are to be able to record two HD feeds while watching another with no stuttering or other PC induced flaws. I plan on 500GB - 1TB HD space. I don't care about BluRay for now, and no gaming is required. Output will be 720P to a Samsung DLP.

Given my budget constraint, I think I can save a few bucks going AMD. Should I go nVidia for TV out, or will onboard video be adequate?

I know I'm being lazy, but a sample build or general specs would be helpful.

Thanks...

Jim

[Rgb]

See

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008672

for my picks.

Search my username for other recent component recommendations

[wnewell]

I know I'm being lazy, but a sample build or general specs would be helpful.


Don't know what a "WAF" case is so I'll leave that choice to you. My choices would be an Nvidia based MB. I've got 3 Myth boxes and all use on board video, sound, etc. Right now I'm using Geforce 6100, 6150, and a 7050PV based MB's, with 2 X2 4200+ cpu's and one X2 BE2300 CPU, all in AM2 MB's. I've got 6 old Air2PC ATSC only HDTV tuners I've been using for about 4 years. And even though they're old first gen boards, they were cheap (some under $20) and work well for me. And while I paid $150 for my first HDTV tuner, there's no way I'd pay anywhere close to that now. In fact I sold the expensive one for $90 and bought 3 of the Air2PC tuners for less than that. Personally, I wouldn't pay the price for the HDHomerun when you can get new PCI tuners for $35 or less that won't eat up your network bandwidth while recording. It's not too hard to build a dual ATSC Myth box with a 500GB for about $200 if you want to. Add another $30 to that if you want a quiet PSU which I'd recommend. If your TV has a PC input, you can find some super deals on MB/cpu combo's. I prefer the VGA over DVI/HDMI.

[Rgb]

wnewell's right on the money-basically everything I've done and concluded, too.

Here's another thread- see my parts list there
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1030211

[jimsiff]

Thanks for the comments guys. WAF (Wife acceptance factor) ... my wife wants the HTPC to look the part, so I can't use a cheap minitower. I will consider a PCI tuner... cost is definitely a factor.

I have an older Samsung DLP with HDMI, DVI, and VGA. I suppose I could use VGA instead of HDMI. Are there any negatives with using analog VGA instead of a digital interface?

In a nutshell, my core requirements are:

x2 ATSC tuners
digital audio out (coax or optical S/PDIF)
Enough CPU/RAM to record two shows + watch another recording

Here's a build I've put together at Newegg... it's a bit pricey at $487, so I wouldn't mind dropping the price by $100 if I don't sacrifice my core features. I'm sure I can shave some CPU/RAM/HD dollars.

$59.99 - Athenatech HTPC case w/ 450W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811190100)
$79.99 - Gigabyte GA-M78SM-S2H Motherboard w/ Ge8200, HDMI, S/PDIF out (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128340)
$87.00 - AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103194)
$39.99 - Wintec 2x1GB DDR2 800 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161229)
$18.98 - Arctic Cooling Alpine 64 fan + Arctic Silver thermal compound (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186010)
$69.98 - x2 KWorld ATSC 115 PCI tuner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815260005)
$109.00 - Seagate Barracuda 750 GB HD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148134)
$21.99 - LG 20x DVD+/-RW IDE drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136117)

With the AMD 5000+, I'm reasonably sure I could OC to 6000+ w/o trouble in the Athenatech case and the Alpine 64 fan. But, I'm not sure if it's worth it given my HTPC, no gaming application.

I could save $21 on CPU by going with a 4600+, $25 on HD by going with a 500GB HD, $17 by dropping RAM to 2x512MB, or $10-25 by choosing a different case. I don't know how I can save money on the motherboard without sacrificing digital audio output.

Has anyone built a HTPC using this Linkworld HTPC case, $34.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811164098) or this Hec MicroATX HTPC case, $49.99? (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811121027) What low-profile CPU coolers would do the job without being extremely noisy like those designed for 1U servers?

Thanks,

Jim

[wnewell]

My wife takes what I give her.:-) A nice $26 black mid tower. She couldn't care less as long as she has a MythTV box. I did replace the noisy PSU recently with a quiet one with a 120mm fan. Otherwise, you don't need that much CPU. My original Mater with 4 HDTV tuners in it was just a socket 754 3000+ and that worked fine recording 4 shows and watching one. Any X2 cpu will be fine. You also won't need a fancy cooler. Any with an 80mm fan will work fine. I use 30 year old wheel bearing grease with mine. Works as good or better than expensive thermal compounds. I paid $79 for the MB/cpu combo I use in her machine. I recently bought a couple of Nvidia based MB/X2 cpu combo's for $59 each from Fry's. So there's ways to cut lot's of money off your list if you want to.

[Rgb]

Your parts all look good- great minds think alike :D

GReat deal on the 750G HD.

I just received the same LG DVD-RW yesterday ;)

I'm putting the finishing touches on the Linkworld 6280 case in the next few weeks. I really like the looks, with the set-top like feet and power button. The structural design and layout is very good. The metal is heavier gauge than most low cost cases- a nice suprise, but more challenging to Dremel out the top for a 120mm fan, which I completed a few weeks ago. I plan to have the 120mm fan blow into the case from the top, over the CPU/RAM. I added a fan filter, too

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999208

The only issue I have with the Linkworld case are the front bezel lock tabs that keep it attached to the case- my first Linkworld had broken tabs as shipped, so I sent it back to newegg- great service and turnaround, no return shipping. The second one is fine all around, just be careful with the front bezel to prevent breaking off the tabs- though duct tape on the sides would keep it on ;).

You might want to go with G.Skil instead of the Wintec- IMO, a bump in quality, and a buck less after shipping:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098

If you don't mind rebates, you can't beat the price/quality of

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146565

Stick with the Arctic Cooling H/S fan you picked- good choice- high flow, no noise, should fit in the Linkworld 6280, but I haven't verified clearance myself.

You might want to look at Nvidia 6100/6150/7050/7025 based boards for lower cost and assured compatibility. I don't know how proven the 8200's are on Linux yet...

Here's an interesting "lowball" choice:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=MCP6P-M2&cat=MBB

The video will be more than enough to get you going, with a PCIe slot to upgrade to a 7xxx or 8xxx Nvidea card later. Verify SPDIF capability, though- see the user manual at the manufacturer's website.

I trust Biostar, MSI, Gigabyte and Asus.

[Rgb]

As far as the price dropping issue, if you go with the Linkworld case, drop to a ~$50 250G, 300G, 400G or 500G hard disk for $90 or less (always add more later), and use a 6xxx or 7xxx based motheboard, you should easily shave the $100 off, coupled with the RAM and other rebates (hard disks, etc)

[Rgb]

I recently bought a couple of Nvidia based MB/X2 cpu combo's for $59 each from Fry's. .

Wow- what mobo and CPU were these? Did the combo come with a heatsink/fan?

[wnewell]

Wow- what mobo and CPU were these? Did the combo come with a heatsink/fan?

ECS Geforce 6100M-M2 AM2+ MB (also supports Phenom) with AMD 65W X2 4200+ cpu. No cooler, but I don't like the AMD 70mm fan coolers anyway. A $6 80mm fan cooler works just as good and is quieter too. I used the CPU's to replace a couple of X2 3800+'s and used one MB and 3800+ to build a system for a cousin. The other is still sitting on the workbench. I installed an HDTV tuner coed in it and setup Mythbuntu 8.04 on a 300GB drive and tested OTA ATSC EPG data (EIT) on it for a few days.

[vondecker]

I was looking at doing this build, I'll be pulling the trigger as soon as i get my credit card statement and the next one's a month off :D It's similar to yours

same case
athlon X2 5000+ BE
2 GB RAM
160 GB OS drive
1 TB media drive
scythe ninja mini cooler(pending confirmation of fit)
sata LG drive

i also was looking at the iMon vfd that newegg has that fits in a 5 1/4 drive for $80.

i wanted HD tuner(s) but i hadn't done my research yet... it's sort of intimidating.

also, i was debating between three gigabyte boards: the mATX geforce 8200, the mATX 780G, and the ATX 780G. any reason you chose the GeForce?

I want to hear how your build boes! i'm planning mythbuntu on mine as well.

thanks. joe.

[jimsiff]

I was looking at doing this build, I'll be pulling the trigger as soon as i get my credit card statement and the next one's a month off :D It's similar to yours

same case
athlon X2 5000+ BE
2 GB RAM
160 GB OS drive
1 TB media drive
scythe ninja mini cooler(pending confirmation of fit)
sata LG drive

i also was looking at the iMon vfd that newegg has that fits in a 5 1/4 drive for $80.

i wanted HD tuner(s) but i hadn't done my research yet... it's sort of intimidating.

also, i was debating between three gigabyte boards: the mATX geforce 8200, the mATX 780G, and the ATX 780G. any reason you chose the GeForce?

I want to hear how your build boes! i'm planning mythbuntu on mine as well.

thanks. joe.

I was thinking the Gigabyte 8200 board because it has S/PDIF out, and pretty nice built in graphics. If/when Linux supports hardware video decoding, I could take advantage of the PureVideo feature. Also, the 5000+ BE can be safely clocked to near 6000+ speeds with no or minimal core voltage adjustments.

I was going to buy today, but Newegg is out of the KWorld tuners. I'm going to have to modify my build a bit to accomodate the Hauppauge HVR-1250 PCI-e tuner. The Gigabyte board only has one PCI-e slot unless I want to sacrifice the x16 slot. I will post final build sheet later this evening when I buy.

Jim

[jimsiff]

Here's my final build specs. I bought most of this from Newegg, but I got the keyboard from Directron, the S/PDIF adapter from FrontX, and tuners / networking gear from Dell using a gift card I had lying around.

I can't wait for it to all get here so I can get this thing going. I plan to connect this to my Samsung HLP-5663W DLP via VGA. DirecTV, your days are numbered!!! :D

Apevia HTPC Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144231) (similar to Athenatech but better PSU & front panel)
Apevia Fan Speed Controller (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998129) (to tame the x2 80mm exhaust fans)
Biostar TF720 Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138117) (needed x2 PCIe, S/PDIF, & on-board graphics)
S/PDIF Output Adapter (http://www.frontx.com/pro/p1062_030p2.gif) (Will remove/reinsert the pins to conform with Biostar pinout)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ BE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103194)
Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125)
G.Skill 2x1GB DDR 800 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098)
Seagate Barracuda 750GB SATA HD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148134)
Pioneer 20x DVD+/-RW (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129018)
Hauppauge HVR-1250 Tuner (http://search.dell.com/searchcom_redirect.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&k=hvr-1250&tdc=2&p=1&rpp=12&cd=1&cat=all&sfp=product&dtype=product&did=A1362926&redp=http%3a%2f%2faccessories.us.dell.com%2fsna%2fproducts%2 fTV_Tuners_Remote_Viewing%2fproductdetail.aspx%3fc%3dus%26l% 3den%26s%3ddhs%26cs%3d19%26sku%3dA1362926&redpe=ee950b05-95fa-218c-d0f1-dc4f1832f86d) x2
Anyware MCE Remote (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880121001)
X-Gene Wireless Keyboard (http://www.directron.com/01027.html)
Linksys PLK200 PowerLine AV Ethernet Adapter Kit (http://search.dell.com/searchcom_redirect.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&k=plk200&tdc=1&p=1&rpp=12&cd=1&cat=all&sfp=product&dtype=product&did=A0942779&redp=http%3a%2f%2faccessories.us.dell.com%2fsna%2fproducts%2 fWireless_WiFi%2fproductdetail.aspx%3fc%3dus%26l%3den%26s%3d dhs%26cs%3d19%26sku%3dA0942779&redpe=93424adc-f0c5-79df-afce-4566c9622e51) (Wifi is no good, can't run Cat5e to theater)

Total out of pocket cost was ~600.

[bthessel]

I have been buying parts on deals and have everything except the case and hard drive.

Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Black Edition
Crucial Tracer 2x1GB DDR2 800 RAM
Scythe Ninja Mini
SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B

Missed the NewEgg refurbished hard drive deals yesterday otherwise I would have had one cheap.

I am looking at the Antec NSK-2480 as a case. It looks like it would be quiet, cool and more power efficient since it comes with a Earthwatts ps. I can get it for right at $100 including shipping and tax from Frys.com. it seems like the extra money may be worth it compared to the cheap cases. Any opinions?

[netslacker]

it seems like the extra money may be worth it compared to the cheap cases. Any opinions?

I considered the Antec case (Fusion Black - didn't like the silver ones) but ended up w/ a Silverstone. I still like the Antec cases for the reasons you mentioned and believe it to be a solid contender for HTPC setups, but I wanted room for more harddrives and expansion slots. I also got the ATX version of the Gigabyte GA-MA78.

R

As a warning, tho - I am in the throws of setup right now and I am struggling significantly to get clean HD video from the onboard ATI HD 3200 graphics (same graphics as your board) using catalyst 8.5 from ATI. Also, audio over HDMI is hit and miss... sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

[bthessel]

I considered the Antec case (Fusion Black - didn't like the silver ones) but ended up w/ a Silverstone. I still like the Antec cases for the reasons you mentioned and believe it to be a solid contender for HTPC setups, but I wanted room for more harddrives and expansion slots. I also got the ATX version of the Gigabyte GA-MA78.

R

As a warning, tho - I am in the throws of setup right now and I am struggling significantly to get clean HD video from the onboard ATI HD 3200 graphics (same graphics as your board) using catalyst 8.5 from ATI. Also, audio over HDMI is hit and miss... sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

I am going to run Video over VGA (my Sony TV has a VGA port) and Audio over optical to my receiver.

[Rgb]

Apevia HTPC Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144231) (similar to Athenatech but better PSU & front panel)
Apevia Fan Speed Controller (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998129) (to tame the x2 80mm exhaust fans)
Biostar TF720 Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138117) (needed x2 PCIe, S/PDIF, & on-board graphics)
S/PDIF Output Adapter (http://www.frontx.com/pro/p1062_030p2.gif) (Will remove/reinsert the pins to conform with Biostar pinout)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ BE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103194)
Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125)
G.Skill 2x1GB DDR 800 RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098)
Seagate Barracuda 750GB SATA HD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148134)
Pioneer 20x DVD+/-RW (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129018)
Hauppauge HVR-1250 Tuner (http://search.dell.com/searchcom_redirect.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&k=hvr-1250&tdc=2&p=1&rpp=12&cd=1&cat=all&sfp=product&dtype=product&did=A1362926&redp=http%3a%2f%2faccessories.us.dell.com%2fsna%2fproducts%2 fTV_Tuners_Remote_Viewing%2fproductdetail.aspx%3fc%3dus%26l% 3den%26s%3ddhs%26cs%3d19%26sku%3dA1362926&redpe=ee950b05-95fa-218c-d0f1-dc4f1832f86d) x2
Anyware MCE Remote (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880121001)
X-Gene Wireless Keyboard (http://www.directron.com/01027.html)
Linksys PLK200 PowerLine AV Ethernet Adapter Kit (http://search.dell.com/searchcom_redirect.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&k=plk200&tdc=1&p=1&rpp=12&cd=1&cat=all&sfp=product&dtype=product&did=A0942779&redp=http%3a%2f%2faccessories.us.dell.com%2fsna%2fproducts%2 fWireless_WiFi%2fproductdetail.aspx%3fc%3dus%26l%3den%26s%3d dhs%26cs%3d19%26sku%3dA0942779&redpe=93424adc-f0c5-79df-afce-4566c9622e51) (Wifi is no good, can't run Cat5e to theater)

Total out of pocket cost was ~600.

I'd like to see a review of the Apevia case once you've cracked it open and start your build. I may want to try one.

One reservation I have is the front mounted power supply- are those standard? How does the power cord that runs to the back of the case connect to the power supply? Is it integrated? What I'm getting at is, if the power supply goes bad, could you use any standard ATX power supply to replace it, or do you need a special front-mount ATX supply?

[jimsiff]

Well, I got the parts for my build (except S/PDIF adapter & Kworld tuners). I was a dork and bought the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 cooler which will not fit in the Apevia HTPC case. Oh well, it's sitting around waiting for another build. I bought a Thermaltake TR2-R1 at Frys, which fits nicely and has a 92mm fan.

I slapped it all together, and overall, I'd give the Apevia case a 6/7 out of 10 based on first impression. It's got it's flaws, but for the price you get a decent looking albeit fragile case and by all appearances a very solid psu. The psu is ATX, with a female/male extension power cord leading from the front to the back. It's a standard 120mm design, mounted backwards and upside down based on typical installations. I haven't powered it up yet, so I'm not sure if the fan pulls air in from the front then out the top or vice versa. I can see two potential drawbacks to this setup. 1) Fan noise at the front of the case. 2) The psu fan can't assist cooling the case since it draws in ambient air which then exits the psu immediately.

Pros:

- nice piano black sheetmetal finish
- 500W PSU w/ two 12v rails, 120mm fan & decent cable mgmt
- lots of interior room
- cooling options (includes x2 80mm, room for x2 120mm on sides)

Cons:

- flip down cdrom door doesn't work with newer drives, even w/ front cover removed. Had to use stock Pioneer DVD front cover
- thin sheet metal; be careful... don't set anything too heavy on top
- poor quality plastic on front cover (1st time I removed front cover, I sheared two supports and damaged a third. There's enough remaining to hold it together snugly, but it's not a case for fiddlers.
- 3.5" external bay probably not the best for HD (poor air circulation below 5.25" drive bays. Alternatives include 5.25-3.5" adapter or mount to 120mm side fan locations. I'm currently using the 3.5" location, but will re-evaluate as necessary)
- stick on rubber feet (in their defense, they say the case can be setup as a tower or desktop, hence the adhesive rather than screws for the feet)

I know the negative list is long, but they're more things to watch out for than buzz kills. You'd definitely get a better quality case with Antec, Silverstone, etc, but you pay for it. If the PSU holds up and I'm careful with the case, it should be a winner as long as it's not too loud. This thing isn't going to any LAN parties... :rolleyes:, so a bulletproof case is a luxury.

I haven't powered this puppy up yet. That will come tomorrow. I'm toying with the idea of Mythbuntu or going bleeding edge with OpenSUSE 11 (due out next week) and MythTV via Packman package repository.

In the meantime, here's some pics:

Case front:
http://www.sifferle.net/case1.JPG

Case front, close up:
http://www.sifferle.net/case2.JPG

Case back:
http://www.sifferle.net/case3.JPG

Case inside, top down view:
http://www.sifferle.net/case4.JPG

External drive bays (x2 5.25", x1 3.5")
http://www.sifferle.net/case5.JPG

Rear case fans, HVR-1250s, & fan controller
http://www.sifferle.net/case6.JPG

More to come...

[jimsiff]

Some other notes on the parts from my build:

The Biostar TF720 motherboard is rated for a Phenom, but I wouldn't be comfortable running a quad core in this thing. The Northbridge heat sink is weak, there's no heat pipe, and no heat sinks on the FETs just behind the external ports. This thing would cook itself running a Phenom full throttle, but it should be fine with my lowly X2 5000+ BE.

It does include lots of overclocking options. Since I've got the BE, I will experiment with clocking it up near a 6000+ assuming I can keep the case cool enough.

The Northbridge heat sink is too close to the first PCI-e slot. With an HVR-1250 tuner installed, there was about 1mm clearance between a soldered lug and the heat sink. I had to wedge some foam as insulation between them to be safe. I will likely find a relatively heat resistant insulator before I do too much with this setup. You can see this in the last picture in the above post.

The Thermaltake TR2-R1 is roughly the same thing as the Arctic Cooling Alpin64. Size, construction, rated noise level and cooling capacity are nearly identical.

The Biostar TF-8200+ seems to be a better built board than the TF720... nVidia 8200 instead of 8100, better thermal management (more & better heat sinks + heat pipe), S/PDIF out AND in, and a few other goodies. It's only $10 more at Newegg. I thought about getting it, but shaved a few bucks off the build instead. If you're looking for a full ATX nVidia 8200 board, the TF-8200+ may be a good option.

[Rgb]

Thanks for the quick response and excellent review.

As a low-cost-case aficionado, I have no problem working around the shortcomings of low cost cases. With the amount of turnover and builds I do, it also makes it easier to sell them to friends/family members who might not be able to afford multi-hundred-dollar cases. The thinner gauge sheet metal isn't a problem for me- I build 'em and put them on a shelf- I don't plan on standing on it ;).

I like the internal layout and piano black finish of the Apevia. It has the same outside dimensions of the Linkworld 6280 case, but supports a full ATX board and a standard ATX PSU, while the LW 6280 uses a mATX PSU, a knock against the Linkworld.

Judging by the shape of the fan blades, if I'm seeing the leading edges correctly from the newegg pics, the air should be sucked in from the top and dump out the front.

I like to run a positive pressure inside the case, i.e. more airflow coming in than going out. I would remove both of the rear exhaust fans and put them on the side inlets. Those airholes pre-drilled or stamped into most cases are FAR too restrictive of airflow. Cut them out with a Dremel or similar knockoff tool at your local hardware store chain or Lowes/Home Depot. Black and Decker has a ~$30 Dremel like tool, and I got a loaded generic set from ACO (a Michigan hardware store chain) for $25.

Unfortunately, you need to remove all the parts (mobo, drives, etc) before cutting to avoid metal bits getting into parts and shorting or jamming something.

While you're at it, cut out the "air hole grill" on the rear exhaust, too. You can then add a real grill like

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999202

or no grill, since it's a rear exhaust, unlikely to get fingers in it ;)

For the inlets, use fan filter/grills

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999206

These will save you a LOT of hassle in cleaning the internal case and CPU fan/heatsink. YOu can easily remove the filter from outside the case for periodic cleaning.

In addition to the two side inlet fans, you can use one of these AC silent fans for the rear exhaust:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186122

Those can only be used for exhaust, so for silent intake fans, I like these Thermaltake's

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999149

unless the included 80mm's are quiet enough for you.

Since you want to control airflow, you want to block air vents unused by fans, like the unused 80mm rear exhaust if you follow this plan. I recently started to use those magnetic sheets made to block furnace vents:

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=10887771

Cut them to size to cover whatever unused vents are leftover after laying out the air flow for a case. I place them inside the case.

[jimsiff]

Rgb,

Just so I understand what you recommend:

1) Dremel out side inlets, replace with fan filter.
2) Move the 80mm fans to the side panels, drawing air into the case.
3) Block one rear exhaust port.
4) Dremel the other rear exhaust port, replace with free flowing grill.
5) Install a silent 80mm exhaust fan in open rear port.

That would give me positive case pressure, better filtering, and better fan efficiency. I like the idea... but I think I'll wait and see what the core temps look like. My guess is I'll want to do some mods. How strong is the magnetic vent cover? I wonder about the magnetic field in close proximity to hard drives. There's no more than 6-8" between the rear vents and the side inlet vent/HD mount. I think a safer (for data), but permanent solution would be adhesive backed sound deadening material.

Since I may use one of the side fan locations as a HD mount, I may use one 120mm inlet fan instead of two 80mm fans.

Thanks for the tips...

[Rgb]

Rgb,

Just so I understand what you recommend:

1) Dremel out side inlets, replace with fan filter.
2) Move the 80mm fans to the side panels, drawing air into the case.
3) Block one rear exhaust port.
4) Dremel the other rear exhaust port, replace with free flowing grill.
5) Install a silent 80mm exhaust fan in open rear port.

That would give me positive case pressure, better filtering, and better fan efficiency. I like the idea... but I think I'll wait and see what the core temps look like. My guess is I'll want to do some mods. How strong is the magnetic vent cover? I wonder about the magnetic field in close proximity to hard drives. There's no more than 6-8" between the rear vents and the side inlet vent/HD mount. I think a safer (for data), but permanent solution would be adhesive backed sound deadening material.

Since I may use one of the side fan locations as a HD mount, I may use one 120mm inlet fan instead of two 80mm fans.

Thanks for the tips...

Yes, you got it ;)

Those magnetic sheets are very low power magnetism, so my belief is a clearance of an inch or so should be fine from active components, but that's only a guess. The magnets in hard drives and fans are far more powerful and probably emit larger magnetic fields than the sheets. I like your sound deadening material substitution.

Check your CPU, motherboard and GPU temps to get a baseline, then move the fans and test before cutting. I use a fiberglass cutoff wheel in the dremel to take the meat out of cases- be sure to leave the fan mount screw holes.

If you want to go geek crazy, install a brass plumbing fitting on the case and attach a partially water filled tygon hose to act as a manometer, and see the pressure difference with fans on/at different fan speeds/fan sizes. Just don't let water in the case ;) (I've been meaning to try this as an academic exercise, but haven't yet.)

One heat concern in your case might be the two tuners, plus airflow over the hard drive.

I would also carve out the meat above the power supply and add a 120mm fan filter over it- keep the power supply squeaky clean :D

[jimsiff]

Well, my first attempt to install Mythbuntu failed miserably. I'm not sure if there are problems with my new hardware, or a lack of or finicky support for the Geforce 8100 chipset.

With slightly tweaked bios settings (disable parallel/serial/fdd, etc) I get dropped to a busybox prompt every time, well before the Live CD comes up.

With fdd controller enabled, but fdd disabled (because I don't have one), I get the same thing.

If I set BIOS to factory defaults, I get to the Live CD screen, but it times out for three minutes attempting to read data to/from the nonexistent floppy drive. Then, if I try to install, the partition manager doesn't see my new 750GB Seagate SATA HD. The key between busybox and failed LiveCD is the fdd change.

I dropped to a console prompt, and dmesg shows errors during the SATA initialization process. Either there's a hardware issue or Myth can't handle it.

I will try another distro as a test... then take it from there. :mad::mad:

Any suggestions?

[Rgb]

That's one reason I still use IDE for my boot/OS hard drive and DVD-RW drive- I don't think SATA support is there yet for boot/optical drives on very recent motherboards. After getting the OS installed and running, I've added SATA drives for data, but OS boot drives can still be problematic depending on the newness of SATA chipset- same goes for installing XP Pro from scratch, which requires adding SATA drivers during the install process or after the install. I think your mobo is too new for the kernal in Mythbuntu 8.04- it may not support the late model SATA chipset on your motherboard.

If you have an IDE drive laying around, try installing the OS to that to rule out the SATA issue. If you get the OS up and running on IDE, google around for the SATA chipset used on your mobo to find out if a kernal patch can improve things. Maybe an auto update adds better SATA support for your chipset. I know a kernal update comes down as one of the 100 or so updates soon after booting to the desktop after installing.

You may want to buy a 40-200G IDE drive for ~$50 or less for the OS boot drive anyways, then dedicate the 750G for video recording.

Another thing to try is MythDora 5.0- it has a similar install wizard, but based on Fedora vs Ubuntu/Debian, so it might have better SATA support for recent chipsets.

Also, try turning off the "RAID" SATA ports and all other SATA ports you're not using- it appears you have at least 6 ports from the pics.

[Mac The Knife]

... I don't think SATA support is there yet for boot/optical drives on very recent motherboards. ....

Yeah there seem to be some reports of problems in that area. Although I'm booting from both a SATA drive and two different IDE drives w/o any problems with my older MB which has a "real" IDE controller not one of those "phony" crippled IDE controllers that they are putting on new MBs.

I've also had good luck booting live CDs from USB optical drives, so he might try that too. If he happens to have one lying around, it's easier than cracking the case and adding an IDE drive.

[jimsiff]

Thanks for the tips. I found several threads including this one on Ubuntuforums (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=765195) that talk about adding boot time parameters to deal with similar issues. I will try adding "all_generic_ide floppy=off irqpoll" tonight to see if I can get LiveCD working properly. If so, I will install, update, then hope the newer kernel includes better support for the nVidia chipset.

I will also try your other suggestions if necessary. I've got an older 80gb IDE sitting around I could use if I have to.

[Rgb]

Another thing I had to do on the Biostar 7050 board was go into the Bios and set the SATA mode to AHCI or "Linux AHCI" vs the default "IDE" (emulation) mode, or Mint/Ubuntu won't recognize your hard disk.

But these issues are why I always wait 6-8 months after a motherboard is released before buying a given model, in order let the Linux kernel drivers catch up.

Again, this is no slight against Linux- XP had/has the same issues with new chipset support. In this respect, Linux is *easier*, since if you wait the drivers are added to the kernal/liveCD's in 6 months or so, while with XP, you have to add drivers with a floppy during the CD setup (which may not work) and/or after getting to the desktop, if you can.

[jimsiff]

Well, I'm making some progress, and have a few tidbits to share about some of my components.

I got Mythbuntu to load using the pci=nomsi boot option. I tried several others including the all_generic_ide and nothing else worked. I can boot Myth... but ethernet doesn't work, so no updates yet. I dropped in an old pci card and finally got online. I'm now posting this from my Myth box.

I've been going rounds with my Linksys PLE200 powerline ethernet adapters. They would connect, then drop the connection within 2 minutes. The only fix was to power cycle the PLE. Long story short... I believe I have a problem sending PLE signals from one 110V phase of my house power to the other. I've got both PLE adapter s on the same power circuit now... one on my Vista PC and one on my Myth box. I'm bridging my Vista PCs 802.11g signal to the ethernet. I set a static IP on my Myth box, and the connection is rock solid.

I've read some threads on PLEs and it seems they're VERY dependant on your house wiring, electrical load, interference, and whether you're trying to cross phases between adapter A and adapter B. I believe I can install a passive phase coupler (https://www.sensorsandmore.com/?mod=product&cat_id=16&product_id=55) on my dryer outlet to improve the signaling.

Anyhow, now that I'm on the net, I'm off to update Mythbuntu in the hopes that the updates help with driver support for ethernet, etc. I already know I will have to go to at least 2.6.24 to get HVR-1250 support... I may as well get the latest.

More to come...

[Rgb]

You might want to look at Nvidia 6100/6150/7050/7025 based boards for lower cost and assured compatibility. I don't know how proven the 8200's are on Linux yet...

Here's an interesting "lowball" choice:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=MCP6P-M2&cat=MBB

The video will be more than enough to get you going, with a PCIe slot to upgrade to a 7xxx or 8xxx Nvidea card later. Verify SPDIF capability, though- see the user manual at the manufacturer's website.

.

Hate to say "I told you so", but... :D

[jimsiff]

Hate to say "I told you so", but... :D

Hey now! :D

I made some more progress last night... kernel is updated to 2.6.25.7, latest nvidia drivers installed, tuners working, remote setup, tweaked partitions & mount points, etc. I went through Myth Setup except for channel scanning.

I now have 50G /, 10G /var, 685G /var/lib, and 5G swap. All partitions are ext3 except /var/lib which is jfs. If I add a second drive down the road, I'll figure out where it mounts then.

I did /var and /var/lib separately to guard against filling / if the Myth partition ever got corrupted. But, since it's all on one drive right now, it probably doesn't make much difference.

Tonight, I need to take the HTPC downstairs, hook it up to the TV, tweak the modelines, and finish the tuner setup. I'm still waiting for my S/PDIF adapter from FrontX, so I won't have DD5.1 for a while. I didn't realize it, but FrontX is in Malaysia. :eek:. They did free shipping to the USA for a $6.40 adapter.

[Rgb]

Hey now! :D

I now have 50G /, 10G /var, 685G /var/lib, and 5G swap. All partitions are ext3 except /var/lib which is jfs. If I add a second drive down the road, I'll figure out where it mounts then.

I did /var and /var/lib separately to guard against filling / if the Myth partition ever got corrupted. But, since it's all on one drive right now, it probably doesn't make much difference.

.

What is the reasoning behind making a /var and /var/lib?

Why not just make a directory /home/dvr or /home/$user/dvr where all the Myth recordings point to in the back end Directories setup?

[mythmaster]

All partitions are ext3 except /var/lib which is jfs.

Why not XFS? IME XFS has performed flawlessly and more reliably than any other fs. If you aren't familiar with it, it was originally designed in IRIX for SGI specifically for multimedia files. The wikipedia entry is here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfs


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via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[jimsiff]

What is the reasoning behind making a /var and /var/lib?

Why not just make a directory /home/dvr or /home/$user/dvr where all the Myth recordings point to in the back end Directories setup?

A separate /var is good practice, as it holds variable data such as logs, databases, mail & print spools, etc. The size of /var depends on the function of the system. With a /var partition, a runaway log or spool process can't fill your root partition. I chose 10G as an arbitrary figure. I'm sure I could get away with 2G or so... but that only saves me 1 hour of HD recording space.

I did a separate /var/lib because I understood that the default media location for MythTV is /var/lib/mythtv/*. With a separate Myth partition that doesn't mount to /, I don't run the risk of filling / if the Myth partition gets hosed and can't mount. It would then fill up /var if I didn't notice all the missing recordings first. ;)

I do like the idea of using a more intuitive mount point for media storage. Maybe I'll use /var/mythtv instead. Since we're dealing with a constantly rolling video data set, I believe that puttiing it somewhere under /var is appropriate.

See http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.1 for some partitioning information.

[jimsiff]

Why not XFS? IME XFS has performed flawlessly and more reliably than any other fs. If you aren't familiar with it, it was originally designed in IRIX for SGI specifically for multimedia files. The wikipedia entry is here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfs

I chose jfs because it's similar in performance to XFS, and I've seen several posts, threads, and a howto that complained about XFS reliability. Then again, I've heard a few things about jfs as well.

The one thing I really like about xfs is the ability to preallocate drive space in large chunks to avoid fragmentation. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Optimizing_Performance#Combat_fragmentation

I may go back to ext3 as Myth now has the "slow delete" feature which should alleviate any video glitches due to deletion of large files. I would venture to guess that ext3 is vastly more reliable than either jfs or xfs on the Linux x86 platform.

I will make my final decision in the coming weeks, depending on how jfs performs.

[mythmaster]

I chose jfs because it's similar in performance to XFS, and I've seen several posts, threads, and a howto that complained about XFS reliability. Then again, I've heard a few things about jfs as well.

The one thing I really like about xfs is the ability to preallocate drive space in large chunks to avoid fragmentation. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Optimizing_Performance#Combat_fragmentation

I may go back to ext3 as Myth now has the "slow delete" feature which should alleviate any video glitches due to deletion of large files. I would venture to guess that ext3 is vastly more reliable than either jfs or xfs on the Linux x86 platform.

I will make my final decision in the coming weeks, depending on how jfs performs.

As previously mentioned, I've been using XFS quite reliably (even more so than jfs or ext3, and, yes, I've tried them all) for more than 2 years now. I don't see how jfs performance can compare to that of XFS.

Myth has had "slow delete" for some time now. It doesn't alleviate any pauses in live video playback on a single-drive system. What you need is a multi-drive RAID system, preferably RAID0 with an external hd backup.

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Now playing: Kraftwerk - The Robots (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/kraftwerk/track/the_robots)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Rgb]

A separate /var is good practice, as it holds variable data such as logs, databases, mail & print spools, etc. The size of /var depends on the function of the system. With a /var partition, a runaway log or spool process can't fill your root partition. I chose 10G as an arbitrary figure. I'm sure I could get away with 2G or so... but that only saves me 1 hour of HD recording space.

I did a separate /var/lib because I understood that the default media location for MythTV is /var/lib/mythtv/*. With a separate Myth partition that doesn't mount to /, I don't run the risk of filling / if the Myth partition gets hosed and can't mount. It would then fill up /var if I didn't notice all the missing recordings first. ;)

I do like the idea of using a more intuitive mount point for media storage. Maybe I'll use /var/mythtv instead. Since we're dealing with a constantly rolling video data set, I believe that puttiing it somewhere under /var is appropriate.

See http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.1 for some partitioning information.

To clarify, your /var and /var/lib are separate partitions on the same 750G drive as /, correct? They aren't just directories on the same partition as /?

...I said I did Unix software engineering, not Unix system admin/hardware admin ;)

[mythmaster]

To clarify, your /var and /var/lib are separate partitions on the same 750G drive as /, correct? They aren't just directories on the same partition as /?

...I said I did Unix software engineering, not system admin/hardware admin ;)
Yeah, he's got them on separate partitions, but on the same drive. This is good for not overflowing /, but not for performance.

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Now playing: Jerry Garcia & David Grisman - The Thrill Is Gone (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/jerry+garcia+%26+david+grisman/track/the+thrill+is+gone)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Rgb]

Yeah, he's got them on separate partitions, but on the same drive. This is good for not overflowing /, but not for performance.

-

I plan to add a separate 200G hard disk to my current build, dedicated to Myth video recordings. Is there any problem setting its mountpoint to /home/$user/dvr, or should I set the mountpoint for the 200G drive (one partition only) to /var/myth, /var/dvr, /var/$whateverDIrectoryName?

I plan to set the default backend LiveTV and Recordings directories to the same mountpoint as the 200G drive, whatever it is (/var/myth, /home/$user/myth, etc).

There may be multiple user accounts setup on this machine- would that affect the Backend Record directories if they are set to /home/$user/myth?

[mythmaster]

I plan to add a separate 200G hard disk to my current build, dedicated to Myth video recordings. Is there any problem setting its mountpoint to /home/$user/dvr, or should I set the mountpoint for the 200G drive (one partition only) to /var/myth, /var/dvr, /var/$whateverDIrectoryName?

I plan to set the default backend LiveTV and Recordings directories to the same mountpoint as the 200G drive, whatever it is (/var/myth, /home/$user/myth, etc).

There may be multiple user accounts setup on this machine- would that affect the Backend Record directories if they are set to /home/$user/myth?

Just mount it to /var/$whatever and make sure it's owned by the user 'mythtv', e.g., sudo chown mythtv:mythtv -R /var/$whatever where "/var/$whatever" is the path to your mount point.

Normal mythtv users will still be able to access the recordings.


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[Troubleshooter]

So I see discussion of various filesystems....I'll throw in that I make my money selling a very parallel/large/high performance filesystem so I have at least some experience here:

XFS: A damn fine general purpose filesystem as said before developed by wicked smart guys that were paid by SGI. Good performance all around here.

JFS: IBM's UNIX filesystem. Honestly I'm not real sure how much effort/money was put into bringing Linux platform support here. Again, wicked smart folk worked on this and the fs has some neat features at least on AIX (again not sure how far IBM went wit h this for Linux). I see little usage of this on Linux.

EXT2/3 THE Linux fs...with and without journaling. Not the best performing in certain workloads but a solid workhorse.


And of course we have Reiserfs as well.....Better at certain fs tasks than may other filesystems but can be finicky.


I've run them all at some point. I really had no issues with Reiser3 or XFS (Again XFS has been impressive for many years).

At this point in time I run EXT3 pretty exclusively. The flexibility and acceptable performance make it worthwhile. Since EXT performs acceptably for the very vast majority of workloads in the home and is the default standard I see no reason not to use it.


-Trouble

[jimsiff]

I don't see how jfs performance can compare to that of XFS.

Myth has had "slow delete" for some time now. It doesn't alleviate any pauses in live video playback on a single-drive system. What you need is a multi-drive RAID system, preferably RAID0 with an external hd backup.

Mythmaster,

Point taken on the "slow delete" & RAID issues. Unfortunately RAID isn't on my roadmap right now. I'm stuck with a single or possibly dual drive backend/frontend combo with no backup for video files. Ideally, I'd like a separate backend running RAID w/ UPS power & a data backup solution.

XFS probably has better I/O capacity than JFS, but JFS isn't too shabby. It deletes large files just as fast as XFS, limiting video glitches during file deletes. Also, JFS appears to use less CPU than XFS. I may be wrong, but I think CPU is more important than raw I/O on Myth.

30 Days with JFS - Decent Review (http://www.linux.com/feature/119025)
File System Benchmarks - From an XFS User; Still prefers XFS, but JFS measures up well (http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz)
Benchmark #2 From debianadministration.org - Prefers XFS, mentions JFS (http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/388)
Interesting thread on JFS vs. XFS (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18913179-Opinions-on-XFS-vs-JFS)

The main knock I've read about XFS is file corruption after power outages and unexpected system crashes. I’ve done some more reading the past few days. XFS (at least prior to 2.6.17) wrote metadata to the journal before the disk write (similar to data=writeback option for ext3). This increased performance, but leaves you hanging when the lights go out. During file system recovery, XFS fills unused space in corrupted files--where the journal entry shows a file larger than written data—as NULL bytes. This makes it nearly impossible to recover data from these corrupted files. In XFS’s defense, that policy is more secure than assuming the bits are all correct. Imagine having your /etc/motd filled with last month’s /etc/shadow. Oops!!!

I found some information in the SGI FAQ and an Ubuntu bug report that seems to indicate that XFS’s default behavior since 2.6.17 is to flush the writeback cache when it makes metadata journal entries, making XFS more reliable with variable power (ie: the average home) albeit slightly slower. Also, since 2.6.22 XFS has changed the default policy to NOT write out NULLs for unwritten file data. You may still end up with corrupted files, but at least you have a fighting chance of recovering something.

http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/faq.html#nulls
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/37435

The only other issue I have with XFS is on Linux systems with the kernel compiled with the CONFIG_4KSTACKS option. Many distros come with this by default to improve performance. A 4K kernel stack can cause problems with XFS (typically in an XFS+RAID, XFS+LVM, XFS+RAID+LVM, XFS+RAID+NFS) configuration, resulting in corrupt kernel memory, system crashes and potentially lost data. Since my system is simple (no RAID, LVM, NFS, etc) I can probably get away with XFS+4K. Google “CONFIG_4KSTACKS XFS” for more info.

http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/kexec/2007-August/000429.html

Here is an interesting study that SGI did comparing XFS to many other file systems. It’s certainly impressive in I/O intensive applications.

http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/papers/ols2006/ols-2006-paper.pdf

So I see discussion of various filesystems....I'll throw in that I make my money selling a very parallel/large/high performance filesystem so I have at least some experience here:

JFS: IBM's UNIX filesystem. Honestly I'm not real sure how much effort/money was put into bringing Linux platform support here. Again, wicked smart folk worked on this and the fs has some neat features at least on AIX (again not sure how far IBM went wit h this for Linux). I see little usage of this on Linux.

I've run them all at some point. I really had no issues with Reiser3 or XFS (Again XFS has been impressive for many years).

At this point in time I run EXT3 pretty exclusively. The flexibility and acceptable performance make it worthwhile. Since EXT performs acceptably for the very vast majority of workloads in the home and is the default standard I see no reason not to use it.

-Trouble

Troubleshooter, you just hit on a huge point regarding file systems and performance. XFS, JFS, ext2/3, et al are all good file systems, but how they run in a particular environment depends on how well the file system has been ported/integrated into the OS and hardware platform, as well as the I/O use case.

The main reason I’m not considering ext3 for my media partition is the slow delete time for large files. If it weren’t for that, I wouldn’t bother with XFS, JFS or anything else.

In the end, I think I’ve decided to try XFS. JFS doesn't appear to have the same level of support as XFS. I've seen several references to it's lack of use and continued support in comparison to other file systems. XFS is certainly a performer, and I like the ability to minimize fragmentation, ( http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Optimizing_Performance#Combat_fragmentation) which would be an issue doing multiple file writes in parallel (ie: recording from two or more tuners to one drive). It also deletes large files faster than ext3, and appears to be more reliable in later 2.6 kernels, especially with larger kernel stack sizes or simpler file system setups.

Thanks,

[mythmaster]

Nice research, Jim. Thanks for posting that -- I wasn't aware of the stack problem.

Please, please, PLEASE do yourself a favor and invest $40 in an APC UPS!!! :)

[jimsiff]

As it turns out, Mythbuntu doesn't set the 4K stacks kernel option. I'm definitely in the clear for XFS. Thanks for asking why I didn't choose it... I did further investigation and believe it's the right choice for me.

I have a funny story to tell about my Myth config. A few days ago, I was messing around with my partition sizes and mount points just after install and accidentally did an "rm -rf" from /var instead of /var/lib. I had backed up /var/lib using tar, but the rest of /var was on it's way out the door. I cancelled the operation about two seconds into it... but OOPS!!! :eek:

I frantically Googled for an ext3 undelete. Most people said ext3 undelete didn't exist, or to binary grep searches for known text strings. That may work if you know what you want, but that doesn't help the absentminded sysadmin. :rolleyes: I built and installed ext3grep, which has some pretty cool file recovery features. I was able to recover every single file I deleted. It's a nice little utility and it will forever be a part of Linux systems I maintain.

ext3grep HOWTO (http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/howto/undelete_ext3.html)
ext3grep source code (http://code.google.com/p/ext3grep/downloads/list)
ext3grep Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/ext3grep)

The moral of the story though is have a backup strategy and use it. :cool:

[jimsiff]

I've settled on XFS for my media partition with some tweaks to tune performance and reduce fragmentation. I don't have benchmark data to back up my reasoning, but I have done a fair bit of reading on the subject the past few days. First, here are the mkfs and mounting options I used:

mkfs.xfs -d unwritten=0 /dev/sdxx

Mount options in /etc/fstab: noatime,nodiratime,logbufs=8,allocsize=512m

The unwritten=0 mkfs option speeds up file writes when you're preallocating space. This way you don't have to waste I/O on flagging unwritten extents. It's less secure in that unwritten space isn't flagged and can contain sensetive data from old files. With Myth, who cares? I'm not running a bank here.

The noatime and nodirtime mount options don't force file writes each time it's read from disk or memory. Recording each access time isn't too important for media files. Logbufs=8 increases the log buffer which increases journal write speed. The default for Linux systems is 2 due to the 4k block size. Allocsize=512m allows the filesystem to preallocate space 512Mb at a time, drastically reducing fragmentation. Fragmentation can be a big issue when doing parallel writes (recording from multiple tuners to one drive).

Other things to tweak are journal log size and agcount (mkfs options). The largest log is 128Mb, which appears to be the default for drives at least 700GB (IME). Agcount adjusts the number of allocation groups. Increasing this value allows more parallel writes to the file system, at the expense of CPU, especially when the drive is very full. The default for my drive size was 32. SGI and some other sources recommend 4GB per AG, which would be 175 for a 700GB partition. Some benchmarks I saw showed that increasing agcount was a minor player compared to journal log size, logbufs, etc. I kept the default to minimize CPU overhead when the drive is near capacity.

Here's some cool references about XFS tuning:

Article from EnterpriseLinux (http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid39_gci1314920,00.html#)
IBM Advanced File System Implementers Guide (http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-fs10.html)
Good article at everything2.com (http://everything2.com/node/1479435)
MythTV.org Wiki on XFS Tuning (http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Optimizing_Performance#Combat_fragmentation)
Gentoo Wiki on MythTV / XFS Setup (http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Setup_Kernel/System_for_MythTV)

[mythmaster]

Here's some cool references about XFS tuning:

Article from EnterpriseLinux (http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid39_gci1314920,00.html#)
IBM Advanced File System Implementers Guide (http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-fs10.html)
Good article at everything2.com (http://everything2.com/node/1479435)
MythTV.org Wiki on XFS Tuning (http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Optimizing_Performance#Combat_fragmentation)
Gentoo Wiki on MythTV / XFS Setup (http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Setup_Kernel/System_for_MythTV)

Groovy!

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Now playing: Zapp And Roger - More Bounce To The Ounce (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/zapp+and+roger/track/more+bounce+to+the+ounce)
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[Rgb]

I know the negative list is long, but they're more things to watch out for than buzz kills. You'd definitely get a better quality case with Antec, Silverstone, etc, but you pay for it. If the PSU holds up and I'm careful with the case, it should be a winner as long as it's not too loud. This thing isn't going to any LAN parties... :rolleyes:, so a bulletproof case is a luxury.


Any other caveats or gotchas re: the Apevia case after using it another week or two?

I want to pull the trigger and order one in the coming weeks...

[jimsiff]

Any other caveats or gotchas re: the Apevia case after using it another week or two?

I want to pull the trigger and order one in the coming weeks...

Here's a few observations, but they're not entirely negative.

1) HD and Power LEDs are very bright. Once I'm convinced everything is dialed in, I'm probably going to disconnect at least the HD LED. It's a bit distracting in the entertainment center.

2) Watch your cable routing for the power & reset switches and LEDs. The leads are standard length, but the switches and LEDs are on the right side of the case, while the mobo connectors are on the opposite side. I accidentally detatched a power switch lead when removing the front cover and had to replace the switch from an old case. I'd let these leads follow a direct route under the 3.5" external bay & PSU to the mobo connector to leave yourself enough slack to comfortably remove the front cover.

3) PSU 120mm and 80mm exhaust fans are relatively quiet. My wife's Dell is louder than the HTPC.

4) Cooling is great so far without tweaking the case at all. The only thing I've done is turn the 80mm fans down using my fan controller. The CPU is still running in the mid-high 30's.

[Rgb]

Pulled the trigger on jimsiff's Apevia case. I bought the silver/aluminum colored one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144230


If it works out, I might a place for the blue one, too ;).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144232


Prolly won't be able to do a build with it until late August/Sept...

[jimsiff]

After a few weeks, I did a bit of tweaking on my Apevia case setup. With the HDD in the lower 3.5" bay, it was running a toasty 45C. As I mentioned before, that drive bay has poor air circulation. I added a 120mm Scythe Slipstream fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185058) and filter to the left side vent, drawing in fresh air, and mounted the HDD sideways to the right side vent/HDD mount. The HDD circuit board now radiates heat through the fan vent, and the top of the drive gets direct cooling from the fan.

HDD temps have dropped from 45C to 38C with the two changes. I'd avoid using the lower 3.5" bay. Here's my order of preference based on air circulation

1) Side vent (either side), preferrably with a 120mm fan opposite
2a) Right side 3.5" bay w/ HDD mounted so circuit board extends into open air for better cooling.
2b) Lower 5.25" bay w/ 5.25>3.5" adapters
3) Bottom 3.5" bay

This is still a very nice case for a single/dual HDD frontend/backend solution, but I wouldn't load it with more than two HDDs due to the air circuilation issues. The best cooling is with one drive mounted to a side vent. All other locations are a compromise.

If I were looking to do a lot of storage for the backend, I'd consider a dedicated backend w/ separate frontends unless you want to buy a premium HTPC case or put a mid-tower in your theater.

[Rgb]

After a few weeks, I did a bit of tweaking on my Apevia case setup. With the HDD in the lower 3.5" bay, it was running a toasty 45C. As I mentioned before, that drive bay has poor air circulation. I added a 120mm

Good call on the 120mm inlet fan.

If possible, a pic with the 120mm fan installed and side mounted HD would be nice ;).

[Rgb]

After a few weeks, I did a bit of tweaking on my Apevia case setup.

Any significant issues re: PSU quality? One reviewer at newegg blasted the Apevia's PSU.

Externally, I think the PSU looks great and appears to have very good build quality from its fit and finish, and runs silently.

[HDTimeShifter]

I like to run a positive pressure inside the case, i.e. more airflow coming in than going out.

What's the benefit of positive pressure? Does it provide more cooling or less noise than maximum airflow of leaving all vents open? I can understand if you want to direct airflow over certain components like CPU and HDD for focused cooling by blocking vents that are not in the path (or redirecting airflow direction), but otherwise, wouldn't maximum ventilation provide the most cooling for the case in general?

[Rgb]

What's the benefit of positive pressure? Does it provide more cooling or less noise than maximum airflow of leaving all vents open? I can understand if you want to direct airflow over certain components like CPU and HDD for focused cooling by blocking vents that are not in the path (or redirecting airflow direction), but otherwise, wouldn't maximum ventilation provide the most cooling for the case in general?

Lots of good discussions on case cooling, fan placement, and negative vs positive pressure philosophies:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/77909585/m/702094211

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/238184-31-case-airflow-positive-negative-pressure

but this post from this link pretty much summarizes my thoughts on the subject:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/archive/index.php/t-23699.html

"lemonadesoda 02-04-2007, 03:25 PM

Be very careful with the term "positive pressure". The increased pressure created by the fan inside the case is approximately ZERO. What is really happening is the creation of localised air movement/turbulence, and it encourages air to be drawn in from this source... rather than other "holes" if there is a corresponding exit fan elsewhere in the case.

Use fans for "local" extraction of air from hot spaces. If you have a "suck air in" fan... then this should only be used as part of a wind tunnel within the case.

Remember the golden rules:

1./ Get hot air out of the case asap so that the average temperature in the case is as close to room temperature as possible
2./ Taking localised hot air out of the case is much more effective than random air exchange
3./ A managed "wind tunnel" or "chimney" effect is much more effecive than random turbulence

There are many people building cases with literally hundreds of fans blowing in and out... with no real consideration for the air "flow" within the case... and making sure that the air flow is such that hot air is removed from the case within the shortest distance.

>>> ALWAYS have an exit fan close to the CPU. Even a slow silent fan can make a BIG BIG difference and will stop hot air collecting at the top of the case... ever expanding... and pushing cold air OUT of the bottom!"



In short, the positive pressure approach is about air flow control- if the case has a lower than ambient pressure, air will be sucked in all random openings, including optical drives and hard to clean spots. If you control where basically *all* the air comes into the case, you can add an inlet filter and minimize dust in the case. Then use spot exhaust fans placed where the heat is.

[jimsiff]

Any significant issues re: PSU quality? One reviewer at newegg blasted the Apevia's PSU.

Externally, I think the PSU looks great and appears to have very good build quality, and runs silently.

I've had no problems with the PSU. I think it's reasonably good quality, and does the job just fine.

[Rgb]

re: case positive pressure-

I think the quote I cited was wrong on at least one point- an inlet fan does raise the case pressure, assuming more air comes in than goes out.

[Rgb]

Good site on PC cooling topics

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/

Click "Case cooling" on the left pane