I have recently decided to upgrade my sub after Ratatouille, of all movies, exposed my sub system in the sewer scene. I'm just glad I was alone, because that thing was making noises akin to cards on spoke bicycle wheels. Very embarassing indeed. My current sub is a klipsch rw 10d with a polk psw10 added to even out the response. My room has a open floor plan to the the dining area, wiith an opening to the kitchen and a hallway opening to the rest of the house, and is approx 26'L X 13 wide and maybe 8-9' tall. My main lisentening position is in the middle of the 2 side walls and maybe a third or a little over into the room. The bass is challenging to deal with as you can guess i sit in a slight null while secondary seating to the side benefit from gain. Okay let's get to it. I basically narrowed my search to SVS and HSU, of course; $500-$600 dollar range. And while I was racking my brain between the two (hearing that the hsu's are more musical, even though I'm 80/20 HT-music, I need accuracy also) outlaw slide into the mix. I know about the outlaw ties to Hsu, but I cant wrap my skull around why a company would help design a product that's in direct competition with their own; or is it? Anyhow, most of the reviews I seem to get come from people that own the respective subs which can be a mixed bag, and serves to make my choice even harder. How does the outlaw compare with HT and music? Will I defeat Ratatouille with either? Will they be adequate for my room? Thanks in advance guys.

I just ordered the Outlaw LFM-2, will post a review on it.

I would also give Elemental Designs some consideration, especially if you can fit the A5-350 or A7S-450 into your budget somehow.

Just got my LFM-1 EX today. I'll let you know how it sounds :)

BTW I had the (well have... FedEx hasn't picked it up yet) the Elemental A5-350.

Just got my LFM-1 EX today. I'll let you know how it sounds :)

BTW I had the (well have... FedEx hasn't picked it up yet) the Elemental A5-350.

Didn't your fuse on that blow as soon as you hooked it up? Did you ever get a replacement amp and try it out or did you just decide to send it back?

Yes it did. I was going to go with a replacement amp but decided to just send it back in the end.

I can say though after listening to my Outlaw sub I'm very very happy :)

It's more than enough for me... talk about FEELING the bass wow!

Epik and ED should be the usual suspects instead of HSU and SVS

Lord have mercy...this is quickly becoming the hardest decision I've had to make. Any links to review for those subs..also what's the turnaround on the ED's?

for $600, best candidates seem to be:
mwf-15 (http://**********/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=265&category_id=9&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37) (price is going up any day, and there's a wait on them)
epik knight (http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/KnightSpecifications.html)

Lord have mercy...this is quickly becoming the hardest decision I've had to make. Any links to review for those subs..also what's the turnaround on the ED's?


You might gather some useful information from this review of 5 mid-priced subwoofers. It includes models from HSU and Outlaw (among others). What is missing is a review of something from SVS.


http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/2316/shootout-five-mid-price-subwoofers.htm.

The SVS PB-12 NSD has a revised driver and a revised amplifier. The revised SVS PB-12 NSD is not quite as attractive as the Outlaw LFM-1 EX, however, if it was my decision, I would probabaly opt for the SVS.

You have to realize that because you sit in a null you are losing a considerable amount of the potential output of any single sub that you buy. You should plan on buying some type of equalization. You might be able to get by with this:

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_123&products_id=657

That 2 band parametric EQ just might be enough. There are other EQs out there, some people are using the Behringer Feedback Destroyer with great results.

Trying to get by with a mid price sub while you are sitting in a null is an invitation to disappointment. You need to spend enough time figuring out how you are going to deal with the null.

You might gather some useful information from this review of 5 mid-priced subwoofers. It includes models from HSU and Outlaw (among others). What is missing is a review of something from SVS.


The SVS PB-12 NSD has a revised driver and a revised amplifier. The revised SVS PB-12 NSD is not quite as attractive as the Outlaw LFM-1 EX, however, if it was my decision, I would probabaly opt for the SVS.

You have to realize that because you sit in a null you are losing a considerable amount of the potential output of any single sub that you buy. You should plan on buying some type of equalization. You might be able to get by with this:

That 2 band parametric EQ just might be enough. There are other EQs out there, some people are using the Behringer Feedback Destroyer with great results.

Trying to get by with a mid price sub while you are sitting in a null is an invitation to disappointment. You need to spend enough time figuring out how you are going to deal with the null.

Thanks for the info guys. I fixed my null prob by rearranging my space..No more 7.1:( The knight looks good but the wait time for them and the ed puts me off. Didn't like the outlaw review that much and I'm still no closer to making a decision.

I think if you go with any of the subwoofers you mentioned you'll be happy.

eD is supposed to be really good (that's why I originally ordered from them and waited more than two months for the sub) but I had no luck and couldn't tell you how it sounds as it really never worked.

I was going to wait for a replacement amp(amp blew after shortly after I turned it on), but after reading many posts about the A5-350 with the 550 amp having issues and the fact that it seems like the customer service is a little overwhelmed by one thing or another I decided to cut my losses. I'm sure the sub is great, but I think the company is just smaller and doesn't have the manpower to respond to customer demand and thus the long wait times and slow response to emails etc. made me want to go another way.

I would have opted for the HSU VTF-3 MK3 but I wanted a down-firing sub (dogs :) ) so in the end I went with the Outlaw since it was designed by Dr. HSU and but for slight differences it's very very comparable to the MK3.

I think if you go with any of them you are going to be VERY impressed, eD included as I've read that they truly make a great subwoofer. I can tell you that after about four days of listening to my Outlaw I'm in love with the speaker. It pretty much has handled EVERYTHING I've thrown at it. And man it rumbles my whole house... and the way it makes your gut feel when it pounds is visceral.

I read the reviews of the sub shootout as well before I ordered. I was a little worried about the Outlaw after reading that review. But the reviewer must have been REALLY cranking the sub past the normal limits because honestly I have it set to 2.5 on the volume and it's PLENTY PLENTY loud and just cranks with authority.

I guess my long post is... in short.. hehe to say... don't fret about it. Any of them will fit the bill, just figure out which is more important as far as features go and pull the trigger as I'm sure they will all impress the hell out of you ;)

Did you take the outlaw to its limit? if so, how hard did you push it and how did it behave at its limit?

The knight has no issues and the wait time is too short to be an issue at the moment

Did you take the outlaw to its limit? if so, how hard did you push it and how did it behave at its limit?

I did try turning it up to "4" (that's out of ten) let's just say my eyeballs were vibrating :)

But that's the highest level its been played. On Cloverfield it handled it no problem set on "4". Like I said, I think the reviewer obviously was taking each speaker to as close to failure as he could (I think he wrote that actually) and I can't imagine how loud that must have been hehe.

I've left it at 2.5 since that's what my calibration had suggested. It integrates very nicely at that level and it already scares the crap out of the dog, and shakes the walls set on that setting ;)

The knight has no issues and the wait time is too short to be an issue at the moment

The wait is 1 month

It was like 2 weeks at one point recently. But even 1 month is still nothing for a sub like the Knight. You gonna use it for a long time, why settle for lesser subs just cuz of 1 month wait. I waited over 2 months for my sub and I know some people who waited 4 or more for theirs.

Epik and ED should be the usual suspects instead of HSU and SVS

You base this on?

It was like 2 weeks at one point recently. But even 1 month is still nothing for a sub like the Knight. You gonna use it for a long time, why settle for lesser subs just cuz of 1 month wait. I waited over 2 months for my sub and I know some people who waited 4 or more for theirs.


IMO you shouldn't have to wait at all. It takes a lot of trust to buy audio equipment from these new breed online retailers. I understatnd they are small, but the fact you are expected to wait just to have your item shipped sours the deal. Too bad because the knight seems like a winner. Other than that my sub is sold and I don't want to wait that long for a replacement.

IMO you shouldn't have to wait at all. It takes a lot of trust to buy audio equipment from these new bread online retailers. I understatnd they are small, but the fact you are expected to wait just to have your item shipped sours the deal. Too bad because the knight seems like a winner. Other than that my sub is sold and I don't want to wait that long for a replacement.

There is a reason as to why there's a wait though, and it's not because these companies are sitting on their hands waiting for someone to order.

Offerings from eD, Epik, and AV123 (MFW-15) have longer wait times because their offerings have great performance for good prices, and there are many people ordering from them to take advantage of this. I waited 2 months for my A5-350 from eD and couldn't be happier with it- a superb sub for a great price.

There is a reason as to why there's a wait though, and it's not because these companies are sitting on their hands waiting for someone to order.

Offerings from eD, Epik, and AV123 (MFW-15) have longer wait times because their offerings have great performance for good prices, and there are many people ordering from them to take advantage of this. I waited 2 months for my A5-350 from eD and couldn't be happier with it- a superb sub for a great price.

I know there is a reason. I did acknowledge the size of the companies. I would be too anxious waiting that long for an item that I have not physically seen or heard. God forbid it breaks i can only imagine what the turnaround would be.

I know there is a reason. I did acknowledge the size of the companies. I would be too anxious waiting that long for an item that I have not physically seen or heard. God forbid it breaks i can only imagine what the turnaround would be.

If you can not wait, build your own...for even less $$$ you have even better performance (assuming you have access to tools already)

If you can not wait, build your own...for even less $$$ you have even better performance (assuming you have access to tools already)

Now that would be something I would be interested in doing in my spare time...Tools?:confused:

tools.....

table saw or circular saw for cutting wood
Router for the holes
clamps

buy the wood $120
Buy the driver (Sweet drivers for $300)
buy the amp $250


material costs approx $700 will give you a sub that does 15Hz and high/no distortion SPL...the box will be around 11 cubic feet ....like most subs above but they can not touch the performance.
Finish on it is the only question but it can look awesome. Check out the DIY sub forum!