What has happened to TAIYO YUDEN quality?
I have read a lot of user bad reviews sinc Feb '08.

A few months back, the TY Value Line 8X DVD-R had some problems, from comments made by posters who seem to have had bad discs in the shrink wrapped 100 packs.

All l know is that TY discs are still the best, even with any problems some people have had. I just received an order from Supermediastore for TY Premium shrinkwrapped printable DVD-Rs. The shrinkwrapping had a new feature, two stickers on it identifying in big letters the DVD-R type. Some people complained that there was no way of knowing if TY was sending out the wrong DVDR type (value or premium line) since they all look the same. The printable surface on my new 8X DVD-Rs is improved, there is now almost no ink residue on the edges of the discs, where overprinting sometimes occurs with my print area settings. The surface formulation seems to have been improved using the technology TY uses on its watershield DVD-Rs.

I have just tried out some Verbatim DVD-Rs, with a printable surface only to the stacking ring. They were okay, but after using them, I prefer TYs.

A few months back, the TY Value Line 8X DVD-R had some problems, from comments made by posters who seem to have had bad discs in the shrink wrapped 100 packs.

All l know is that TY discs are still the best, even with any problems some people have had. I just received an order from Supermediastore for TY Premium shrinkwrapped printable DVD-Rs. The shrinkwrapping had a new feature, two stickers on it identifying in big letters the DVD-R type. Some people complained that there was no way of knowing if TY was sending out the wrong DVDR type (value or premium line) since they all look the same. The printable surface on my new 8X DVD-Rs is improved, there is now almost no ink residue on the edges of the discs, where overprinting sometimes occurs with my print area settings. The surface formulation seems to have been improved using the technology TY uses on its watershield DVD-Rs.

I have just tried out some Verbatim DVD-Rs, with a printable surface only to the stacking ring. They were okay, but after using them, I prefer TYs.


People should only buy Premium Line. Never had problems and they are by far still the best.

FWIW, TY does not, and never has, make a "Value Line" type of disc. These are factory seconds and discards that 3rd party distributors have bought and re-sold. Often they are mis-labeled as to speed ratings and sometimes not even disclosed to be what they are.

TY still has, and always had, the best factory QC and the least amount of variation from batch to batch, as well as the highest quality stampers, (polycarbonate discs), in the industry.

There are still many burners that do not have adequate firmware support for burning 16x TY media at 16x reliably. Never mind burning 16x media at 18x, 20x, etc. which many burners will do. But there's nothing wrong with TY media, and never has been.

If you want the best media, buy only from a reputable seller like www.rima.com, who only sells genuine premium grade TY media. If you have problems with the 16x media, get the 8x and burn it at 8x, you'll be happy.

^^Agree.
I mostly use Taiyo Yudens (also Mitsui and HHB) CD-R/DVDs and so far I've never have any problems with them. I literally burn 100 out of the 100 that was purchased w/o coasters! The only consideration of them being a "bad" is because I made the mistake on them while recording, which then regretfully ended up in the bin. There are a lot of counterfeit TY discs out there so I'm not sure if this is the case.

In addition to Rima, here's a source that I've been doing business with for years - www.american-digital.com. I first bought my Marantz professional CD-R recorder from them back in '02 and since then, they've been my main source for pretty much everything - especially for blank media. They cater mostly to 'pros' (musicians, studios, etc.) and they stock a pretty extensive gear/media inventory.

Taiyo Yuden is still the most consistently reliable DVD-R media you can buy, period. Yes, there were some hiccups earlier this year but this was largely confined to the "Value Line" discs: these are factory seconds or discards to begin with, and there was an abrupt further drop in their quality as TY made various recent attempts to improve production efficiency. (TY is the last mfr using expensive Japanese factories, and they are being tightly squeezed by competitors who outsource to junk factories in Malaysia, India, the Moons of Endor, etc.)

Genuine first-quality "Premium"-line TY discs are shipped in cakebox spindles (clear top, black base) with a paper TY insert at the top and a plastic tape seal around the bottom (the spindles are not shrinkwrapped). Depending on who you talk to, the plain silver-top 8x DVD-R are thought to have slightly better consistency batch-to-batch than the printable TY versions. Earlier in the year a few batches were shipped with separation problems in a few of the discs (they would fall apart as they were pulled off the spindle). This was usually limited to the topmost 3-4 discs in a 100-pak cakebox, and was at least obvious enough you'd know to avoid using them. 96 out of a hundred is still incredibly good, and all spindles shipped since April have gone back to 100% good.

There have been spotty but regular rumors that TY will soon stop production of their classic 8x media to streamline operations. The 16x TY is quite good but not as good as the 8x, which has long been the "miracle media" of choice for those with older standalone recorders that can't be updated for newer media. The TY 8x remains the most compatible media available, its only rival was Verbatim but Verbatim has begun outsourcing with a vengeance and recent batches are markedly less compatible with older or failing recorders. Anyone who experiences frequent burning problems with store-bought media should definitely try an online order of TY 8x DVD-R.

I bought a 100 pack of First Quality Taiyo DVD-R 8x White Printable from RIMA. They were decent discs, but did not produce as nice of burns as the Sony Japan (Yuden Made) DVD+R 8x or the Taiwan Made Verbatim 16x DVD-Rs. The Taiyo DVD-R 8x were well within DVD Spec, but had considerably higher overall error rates than the other two types of Blanks I mentioned earlier. And this was true across all 7 of my DVD Burners and regardless of burn speed selected.

.....

Genuine first-quality "Premium"-line TY discs are shipped in cakebox spindles (clear top, black base) with a paper TY insert at the top and a plastic tape seal around the bottom ....

Some flavors do also come in shrink-wrap with no cakebox. Mainly printables AFAIK.

I bought Taiyo Yuden DVD-R, 8x discs from SuperMediaStore.com a while back. They are shrink wrapped with a label that states "VALUE DVD-R". Does this mean that SuperMedia is/was selling factory seconds or rejects? Several people previously recommended SuperMedia. I was going to buy some more discs and my question is should I buy elsewhere?

Were there any problems with your 'VALUE DVD-R" TY's?

I bought Taiyo Yuden DVD-R, 8x discs from SuperMediaStore.com a while back. They are shrink wrapped with a label that states "VALUE DVD-R". Does this mean that SuperMedia is/was selling factory seconds or rejects? Several people previously recommended SuperMedia. I was going to buy some more discs and my question is should I buy elsewhere?

If they fail to properly disclose that they are selling value-line, then you should buy somewhere else. Supermediastore usually does disclose, so you probably didn't notice it. If you want fair prices and genuine premium TY every time, www.rima.com is the place to go.

All of my T-Y purchases have been from either Supermediastore or Rima. Even with shipping cost included, the 8x mirror finish disks are between 27 and 28 cents each. Since rumors of the 8x line being shut down, I have bought quite a stock of them just in case. The newest ones are slightly different in tha there is now a large label clearly identifying the disk, and the base of the 100 disk cake box is no longer fluted, but smooth. I think the prevailing media will change before I run out of good T-Y optical media. :)

Were there any problems with your 'VALUE DVD-R" TY's?


No problems yet.

If they fail to properly disclose that they are selling value-line, then you should buy somewhere else. Supermediastore usually does disclose, so you probably didn't notice it. If you want fair prices and genuine premium TY every time, www.rima.com is the place to go.


I'm sure they disclosed it, but I was not aware of there being a value line and a premium line. At the time most postings were about how good the T-Y discs were and I do not recall if different line qualities were mentioned or not.

I just looked at the rima.com website. Is the #1736-100 the recommended 8X DVD-R discs? What's throwing me off is the "Thermal printable surface".

Mike

I'm sure they disclosed it, but I was not aware of there being a value line and a premium line. At the time most postings were about how good the T-Y discs were and I do not recall if different line qualities were mentioned or not.

I just looked at the rima.com website. Is the #1736-100 the recommended 8X DVD-R discs? What's throwing me off is the "Thermal printable surface".

Mike
Rima sells only premium TY discs, they refuse to sell value-line. The 8x discs are easily the best DVDR ever made, either -R or +R. Thermal silver is just the plain shiny silver unbranded disc. Thermal white has a while lacquer finish. They're all the same media.

I haven't been happy with the TY White Inkjet 8x DVD-Rs.

First, I think tape wrap is a lousy way to package them. It is easy to scratch them when trying to remove them from the package, the outer edge is often sticky, and the worst part is I have discarded many discs because of speckling extending about 1/4 inch in from the outer edge. I wonder if this is a residue from the packaging.

Second, I have noticed that when some discs are burned, the first half-inch out from the center will be darker than the rest of the disc. It has happened on more than one recorder, so I feel it is because of the disc. I have not had any problem playing these discs, but I wonder if the variation in color indicates any problem that may affect playability in the future. Has anyone else noticed this? Should I be concerned about these discs?

John

Taiyo Yuden is still the most consistently reliable DVD-R media you can buy, period.

Are you distinguishing between TY -R and +R?

David

I haven't been happy with the TY White Inkjet 8x DVD-Rs.

First, I think tape wrap is a lousy way to package them. It is easy to scratch them when trying to remove them from the package, the outer edge is often sticky, and the worst part is I have discarded many discs because of speckling extending about 1/4 inch in from the outer edge. I wonder if this is a residue from the packaging.

Second, I have noticed that when some discs are burned, the first half-inch out from the center will be darker than the rest of the disc. It has happened on more than one recorder, so I feel it is because of the disc. I have not had any problem playing these discs, but I wonder if the variation in color indicates any problem that may affect playability in the future. Has anyone else noticed this? Should I be concerned about these discs?

John
I only use the shiny disks, so I have no comment on the white surface disks, but the color change when looking at the burned side of the disk is most likely due to the change in rotational speed of the disk during HS copying. On my DVD recorder, it takes about 19% of a full disk before it speeds up to 8x, and then the time to complete drops by about half. This is not unusual, or indicative of a bad disk. If you are not doing HS copying, then something else is going on here.

I am doing high speed dubbing. I don't recall it happening with any shiny discs, only white inkjet. It also doesn't happen with every disc in the package. Some will be consistant in color for the complete burn, while others will have the darker ring nearer the center with the rest of the disc noticeably lighter.

John

Are you distinguishing between TY -R and +R?

David

Sorry, I have tunnel vision, my main concern is finding DVD-R that will burn reliably and stay reliable in my older Pioneer and JVC standalone recorders. I have absolutely no use for +R or rewritable media, my focus is on -R exclusively. From my narrow standpoint, Taiyo Yuden Premium Silver 8x DVD-R is the only availble media that I find guaranteed to work for me, every time. Out of hundreds of TY discs burned in 5 different recorders over the past three years, not a single one has ever failed to burn, high speed or real time.

That said, unless you do a little research and have a head for figuring out TYs myriad versions, you CAN get screwed by TY. Their +R media has a spotty track record, their 16x DVD-R is not as reliable and is often misleadingly marketed as 8x, and their white inkjet printable media is a total crapshoot. The number one biggest PITA with Taiyo Yuden is their irritating practice of selling discards that don't meet their Premium quality standards to surplus dealers who package them as "Value Line". This is a HUGE trap and problem for unwitting TY consumers, because their great premium silver 8x media has no identifying markings on it of any kind. Unscrupulous dealers have repackaged the "value line" discards as "premium" and foisted them on unsuspecting buyers. Even good dealers have often accidentally sent "value line" media to clients who ordered "premium".

What makes this all the more outrageous is that the "value line" discards are not even a good "value": most dealers sell them for at most 3 cents less per disc than the "premium". The TY "premium" silver lacquer 8x is still great stuff, just make sure that is what you receive. Since it isn't really profitable anymore, rumors abound that TY will soon stop making it (the majority of PC users want 16x- g*d forbid they should have to wait ten more seconds for a burn to finish). Buy it now while you can.

Second, I have noticed that when some discs are burned, the first half-inch out from the center will be darker than the rest of the disc. It has happened on more than one recorder, so I feel it is because of the disc. I have not had any problem playing these discs, but I wonder if the variation in color indicates any problem that may affect playability in the future. Has anyone else noticed this? Should I be concerned about these discs?

John
This has nothing to do with the disc, although discs with darker dye will make it more noticeable. It's caused by Zone-CLV burn strategy, and it occurs on any disc in any drive that uses that strategy. Z-CLV is the safest strategy in terms of laser calibration, because the laser is not adjusted in that zone. CAV and P-CAV strategies require constantly adjusted laser power, and the opportunity for more error crops up. Typically you see Z-CLV at speeds at or under 8x, and P-CAV and CAV at 8x and above.

I haven't been happy with the TY White Inkjet 8x DVD-Rs.

First, I think tape wrap is a lousy way to package them. It is easy to scratch them when trying to remove them from the package, the outer edge is often sticky, and the worst part is I have discarded many discs because of speckling extending about 1/4 inch in from the outer edge. I wonder if this is a residue from the packaging.

This is also a fallacy. Shrink/tape wrap is no worse a way to package discs than any other. It's the handling the discs receive that causes damage, and spindles are easily as likely to generate damage. The speckling is over-spray from the application of printable surfaces or other surfaces. It's also one reason why media gets sold as "value-line" instead of premium. Media with such a problem should be returned for credit.

That said, unless you do a little research and have a head for figuring out TYs myriad versions, you CAN get screwed by TY...their great premium silver 8x media has no identifying markings on it of any kind...
I agree, the media have no markings at all, but the latest batch I bought from Rima has a large lable identifying the content on each cake box. Of course, the disks are still completely blank. The label is at least a step in the right direction.

Rima sells only premium TY discs, they refuse to sell value-line. The 8x discs are easily the best DVDR ever made, either -R or +R. Thermal silver is just the plain shiny silver unbranded disc. Thermal white has a while lacquer finish. They're all the same media.

OK, as a soon-to-be first time burner what is the difference between

silver lacquer
white inkjet
black inkjet
white thermal

versions of th 8X TY DVD-R media available at rima.com?

Didn't see silver thermal.

OK, as a soon-to-be first time burner what is the difference between

silver lacquer
white inkjet
black inkjet
white thermal

versions of th 8X TY DVD-R media available at rima.com?

Didn't see silver thermal.

Silver lacquer is the same thing as "thermal". It's a blank shiny silver disc. White thermal has a shiny white lacquer finish.

These are all the same media, the only difference is the coating on the back.

I doubt there is such a thing as "black inkjet" printable media.

For the absolute best inkjet printable surface, the TY Watershield (http://www.rima.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=R&Product_Code=1778-50&Category_Code=GP) is unsurpassed. I use it for stuff that has to look impressive, and use Verbatim Gloss (http://www.rima.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=R&Product_Code=1877&Category_Code=GP) for most other stuff. It has a more satin finish. FWIW, TY Watershield is nothing more than White Thermal with a clear printable finish applied.

From my narrow standpoint, Taiyo Yuden Premium Silver 8x DVD-R is the only availble media that I find guaranteed to work for me, every time.

Just so I understand, have you used TY Premium Silver DVD+R and found it not to be as reliable as -R?

I am asking because I was under the impression that in general, +R has better error correction than -R and is therefore more reliable for data backup. I had been using TY Premium Silver DVD-R for a long time but recently switched to +R, so I would be interested to know if I have made a mistake.

David

Just so I understand, have you used TY Premium Silver DVD+R and found it not to be as reliable as -R?

I am asking because I was under the impression that in general, +R has better error correction than -R and is therefore more reliable for data backup. I had been using TY Premium Silver DVD-R for a long time but recently switched to +R, so I would be interested to know if I have made a mistake.
I don't think you made a mistake. Many people are lifelong users of -R discs cuz that was the first format made and many machines only played and recorded on -R up to recent times, in fact, so past experience keeps them in the -R camp. Nothing wrong with that... you do what you're familiar with and what works for you.

There's at least one Member here who was one of those -R users who always computer-checks his burns after dubbing and found his -Rs were averaging 95-96% quality, but when he switched to +Rs, he consistently got 99% burns. (These numbers are best I can remember w/o extensive search.)

Here's a ref. article by a well-known and respected DVD guru for more info. (http://www.cdfreaks.com/reviews/Why-DVDRW-is-superior-to-DVD-RW) See esp. "Pre-pits versus ADIP" discussion, but ignore the following section on "Defect Management" and DVD+MRW Mount Rainier... it's a hardware implementation and not used in consumer recorders. The section on "Multiple recording sessions and compatibility" farther down is also interesting. +Rs can have some different and fewer FF speeds compared to -R in certain machines. A large study determined -Rs were 95% compatible in various machines and +R were 93% compatible if not bit-set to DVD-ROM, otherwise 95%.

More info on DVDs, etc. here, if interested. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12298494&postcount=20)