here is my current setup pic

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v241/56/117/572422014/n572422014_832751_3681.jpg"]http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v241/56/117/572422014/n572422014_832751_3681.jpg

and im looking for a center channel stand for my B&W HTM61 the subwoofer is 23.9in high and the table just slightly less prob at 22.5-23in

i found the SFC22 (http://www.sanus.com/world/en/products/ProductDetails/line/speakerFoundations/pcat/steel/modelCode/SFC22/layout/layout/) which is metal and 22in and i also found the NFC18 (http://www.sanus.com/world/en/products/ProductDetails/line/speakerFoundations/pcat/natural/modelCode/NFC18/layout/layout/) at 18in high. Which would be better the 18 in wood cherry that matches my speakers or the 22in black metal one. I know higher is better but it can only be so high as well, and this stand does have little feet so you can angle the speaker, also my center is quite large at 12in deep so i hope it fits well, the top on these is 14x8. Unless you guys know of a good center stand thats 24-28in high that i should use instead. i did find a cheap one thats 28in but it doesnt have little angler feet on it to angle the sound up but it may be too cheap wood technology 28in stand (http://www.racksandstands.com/Wood-Technology-CC-28-WT0257.html)

What is wrong with the table you are currently using?

You can use anything to angle the speaker up.

HERE (http://www.standsandmounts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=279) are a few. If you see one you like, you may be able to get it elsewhere cheaper. Center channel stands are sold everywhere. I'd get a 24" one if they are available (or 28" if that is not too high).

If the subwoofer sounds good in the center of the room, I'd use that as the center speaker stand. Just put some Auralex Mopads underneath to angle it upwards a little and it should be good. Put the equipment rack somewhere else and bring the R/L speakers closer to the TV and bring them into the room some.

If you dont want to spend fo rht Auralex mopad, large rubber doorstops you can find at staples, home depot, lowes, etc. can be used instead.

ok, so if i bring the mains closer together do you think that would help make it sound better, i always thought further apart to widen the sound stage was better but maybe closer could be just as good because its not as close to the wall, ill give it a shot. also i was thinking of getting rid of that av rack and going for a horizontal one more or less a nice tv stand like you see in a lot of pics and use that for a tv stand

ok, so if i bring the mains closer together do you think that would help make it sound better, i always thought further apart to widen the sound stage was better but maybe closer could be just as good because its not as close to the wall, ill give it a shot. also i was thinking of getting rid of that av rack and going for a horizontal one more or less a nice tv stand like you see in a lot of pics and use that for a tv stand

Speaker placement is a compromise between the reflections that you are incurring within the room. Cardas recommends to distance the center of the speaker to the side wall by 0.276 times the width of the room. He also recommends to distance the center of the woofer of the speaker from the wall behind by 0.447 times the width of the room. This is based on the golden ratio.

Your room looks to be roughly 13' wide. With that figure, you would place the speakers 3.588' away from the side walls and 5.811' from the back wall. This is perhaps not possible for your setup. In the case that it isn't, you can choose more conservative distances as long as they are not related to the room dimensions. Perhaps fractions of the above figures may work, this is something you will have to experiment with. However, there should be audible improvements compared to your corner-loaded setup now. Often times the distance between the speaker and the wall behind it controls a null. The farther the speaker is from the wall behind it, the lower in frequency the null moves. By having a speaker more than 3' away from the wall that is behind it, you move this null below 94hz. 4' brings the null below 71 hz which is sometimes where a person may have a subwoofer deal with. Do not make the sidewall to center of woofer and rear wall to center of woofer distances equal.

ok, i should add that behind the couch is open to the kitchen and rest of the house, if that factors in any distances you have mentioned

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v241/56/117/572422014/n572422014_832753_4263.jpg

would you think that the rears are positioned ok? on my 2 back surrounds i have the tweeter on right one if you are seated pointed directy in the center of the right chair, and the same for the left. and the sides are obviously as you see them, when i sit they are aprox 1-2ft above my head

thanks for your input so far, i will take some measurements and try them out

ok, i should add that behind the couch is open to the kitchen and rest of the house, if that factors in any distances you have mentioned

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v241/56/117/572422014/n572422014_832753_4263.jpg

would you think that the rears are positioned ok?

thanks for your input so far, i will take some measurements and try them out

The cardas method only requires the width of the room, so the calculations are ok. My only gripe is the side sofa, it just seems to be in the way. How does it look when you swap the couches?

After you get the speakers setup done, you should probably start thinking about acoustic treatments... Bass traps in the front corners, first reflection absorption as a start...

What is the total length of the room up to the stairs? What is the total length of the room as it extends through the kitchen to the opposite wall?

with the couches swaped it would look like the first photo just cut off the closest seat blocking the speaker add an arm-wrest and of course on the second photo add a seat to one side and picture it centered, takes up a lot of room any which way, i may need to get rid of one and put it in another room.

as far as bass traps were can i get some good priced ones.

and measurements i will post once i get home today. what will these lengths tell you?

with the couches swaped it would look like the first photo just cut off the closest seat blocking the speaker add an arm-wrest and of course on the second photo add a seat to one side and picture it centered, takes up a lot of room any which way, i may need to get rid of one and put it in another room.

as far as bass traps were can i get some good priced ones.

and measurements i will post once i get home today. what will these lengths tell you?

I would suggest checking out these resources:

Room Treatment thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=255432)

Gik Acoustics (http://www.gikacoustics.com/)

RealTraps (http://www.realtraps.com/)

The latter two have representatives that post here on occasion, they both offer some advice as to how to setup the treatments in the room and what is needed. Depending on your budget, there are several ways to treat your room. If you make the absorptive traps yourself, the cost will go down quite a bit.

ill probably want to make them myself as i was looking at the second link and i don't think i want to spend $800 to treat that room

the room is actually 11ft 7/8 wide in front and its from front to back 19ft and from the stairs to the stove in the kitchen is 14ft

the room is actually 11ft 7/8 wide in front and its from front to back 19ft and from the stairs to the stove in the kitchen is 14ft

You can experiment with whether or not pushing the couch back a few feet helps the bass or not. Since your surround speakers are already mounted, your couch position would be reasonably predetermined to within a few feet due to the angles that dolby suggests. However, within that regime, you may find that you can find a spot where the bass ringing is minimized.

If you dont mind working with fiberglass, there are some DIY techniques that you can take advantage of. Search of Superchunk in the 1st link I posted above. If you don't feel like dealing with that much work, the next best alternative that I know if is gikacoustics. They do all the work for you for what seems to be reasonable prices.

What is the height of your ceiling? If 8' or more, you may be able to stack 2 tri traps in both front corners as a start for bass trapping. You could then deaden the front wall with additional traps, but at that point itd be a good idea to start a thread, read some more threads, or check out the resources at the websites I linked. Realtraps.com has some interesting videos that help you understand what is going on in your room.

Try placing the speakers roughly 3 1/4 feet away from the side walls (center of woofer cone to wall distance). See if you are getting satisfactory imaging. Play with the toe-in angle. For my rooms, it has always been optimal to point the speakers so that they fire about 2-3 feet behind my head. Once you get the imaging down, you can play with the distance separation between speaker and back wall. As you pull the speaker out, the null frequency caused by this back wall will decrease. I found that this affects the grunge of rock guitar and bass guitar notes.


LOL, i just realized that this was a thread about the speaker stand. I thought I was responding in your other thread :o

Did you decide what you are going to do with the center speaker stand? I like the looks of the salamander Synergy furniture. If I had the funds, I would probably end up with one of their 1000$ 3 door wide systems.

BTW you "need" a bigger screen :D

lol thats ok, your response works in this thread too :)

yes its a standard 8ft ceiling

as far as speaker stand i haven't decided if im going to go the horizontal av rack/tv stand or a dedicated stand for the center and keep my av rack, ill do some measuring once i move my speakers around.

yeah i know i need a bigger screen its only a 46in, that's why my couch isn't moved back any farther. sometime i would like to get a 60in but i don't have the funds for that yet.

UPDATES:

heres my updated pix, i have moved around the speakers and av rack, don't mind the wire mess in the background its temp for now, i think i would be better off with a horizontal av rack/tv stand.

http://www.mitchr.gotdns.com/files/webpix/100_0257.jpg

http://www.mitchr.gotdns.com/files/webpix/100_0248.jpg

http://www.mitchr.gotdns.com/files/webpix/100_0247.jpg

next up is playing with couch locations.

let me know what you think.

couch swap:

http://mitchr.gotdns.com/files/webpix/100_0259.jpg

http://mitchr.gotdns.com/files/webpix/100_0258.jpg

http://mitchr.gotdns.com/files/webpix/100_0260.jpg

heres what that looks like.

better? worse?

The side surrounds are much further back than I had thought. I think it is good that the 3-seater is not blocking the right speaker, but it would seem to me that if the 3-seater was back by like 4' it would give you a better surround field. The minus is that you would be farther from your TV.

Unfortunately, you will have to decide which compromises you can live with.

What do you think of the sound? Do you think moving the couches helped? How many people do you normally host in that room?

i like the 2 seater better, it feels better and i can get it closer to the tv, maybe i will need to move the 3 seater to another room

i like the 2 seater better, it feels better and i can get it closer to the tv, maybe i will need to move the 3 seater to another room

Gotta go with what is more comfy!! :)

How do you feel about the surround speakers being so far back? I guess you could experiment casually with a folding chair just to see if you like the sound better when the side surrounds are only slightly behind your ears. While you may not be able to set up that way, its always a good thing to know/learn about.

UPDATES:

heres my updated pix, i have moved around the speakers and av rack, don't mind the wire mess in the background its temp for now, i think i would be better off with a horizontal av rack/tv stand.couch swap:

heres what that looks like.

better? worse?I think it looks great. And I bet it sounds much better, too. I think your AV rack is just fine, btw. And your center channel still looks fine on that table, too.

I would leave the 3-seater across from the TV. Gives you more seating in the better viewing spot.

Sometimes we have to make compromises and everything can't always be in the optimal location so, regarding your surrounds, as long as you calibrate them properly, they are fine where they are, too.

You need to pull the front of your center channel speaker up to the front edge of the table, maybe even sticking out an inch or so. The way it appears in the picture, the table is causing unwanted reflections. It will sound much clearer if you pull it forward.

Gotta go with what is more comfy!! :)

How do you feel about the surround speakers being so far back? I guess you could experiment casually with a folding chair just to see if you like the sound better when the side surrounds are only slightly behind your ears. While you may not be able to set up that way, its always a good thing to know/learn about.

actually i think the surround is pretty good, those are DS3s and i have them on dipole mode so it uses the side firing drivers for most of the sound and those pretty much point at my head, a lot of material doesnt have that great of surround effect any ways but from time to time it can sound pretty good, ive calibrated it all with the mic that comes with my avr

I think it looks great. And I bet it sounds much better, too. I think your AV rack is just fine, btw. And your center channel still looks fine on that table, too.

I would leave the 3-seater across from the TV. Gives you more seating in the better viewing spot.

Sometimes we have to make compromises and everything can't always be in the optimal location so, regarding your surrounds, as long as you calibrate them properly, they are fine where they are, too.

You need to pull the front of your center channel speaker up to the front edge of the table, maybe even sticking out an inch or so. The way it appears in the picture, the table is causing unwanted reflections. It will sound much clearer if you pull it forward.

i did actually pull the center out to the edge before i recalibrated. i think in the latest couch pix you can kind of see that, and the surround sides they are only about 1ft behind my head and about 1-1.5 ft above my head

I thought there was a door way to the left of the couch :o

I guess it is just a widening of the room?

Nevertheless, It looks pretty good. Maybe angle the center channel upwards a little towards your face as you are seated if it isn't already.

to the left of the couch is the entrance to the garage and to either side is the bathroom and the door that goes downstairs to the basement, it does widen a bit after that wall

i posted this in my post your theater thread too, so since you were following me here i thought i would throw this question at you too.

hmm, which do you guys would think would look better, the Studiotech Ultra 22-D Cherry (2 door) $699 or the open Salamander Synergy Twin 20 with no doors or sides $549? Open or closed?

ive pretty much measured it out and found out that if i were to go with 3 wide (6 shelves) it would pretty much be too wide for the room and my left front would be to close to the side wall since i just got them out of the corners, this keeping the right speaker were its at since that couch is there. So i think all i can reasonably fit is a 2 wide 4 shelf unit, which probably fits with the main seat which is 2 anyways, since i switched the couches back.