Just got back from Thunder Bay Canada, where I bought my first DVDR w/hdd, and wanted to post my findings about the latest DVDRs w/hdds findings at Future Shop.
They were clearancing out several models for what I thought were damn good prices. I was trying to choose between Pioneer and my favorite, Panasonic.
They had stacks of Pioneer 650's(200gb) all marked down to $299 and a few 550s(160gb) at $349. When I asked why the 650 which I would assume would be better were cheaper I was told they had many more 650's to get rid of. They also had a few 560s and 660s at the bottom of the stack but no price listed.
The Panny EH55 was also marked down to $299 but they only had the display model left(no manual or box). I waffled back and forth for 45 minutes and finally settled on the Panny. I figured better the devil I know. I was thinking of getting both but <$600 was more than I was going to spend. Heck I was just going in to look.......The guy new nothing about any new Pannys that might come out and the EH55 was the only Panny recorder in the store. He marked it down to $269 although I would have rather paid the $30 more for a NIB it wasn't a option.
The rest of the HDD offerings were:

Sony RDRHX750 160gb $299 '07 I think
LG RH-398-m 250gb $399 RH-387 160gb $229 both '08 models I believe
LG LRH-890 250gb $298 '07 model

I hope I made the right decision. So far the PQ is as good as any of my Pannys(which is a good thing IMO) and I'm trying to figure out all the HDD and TVGOS things. The Pio did not have TVGOS or a G-link(I believe IR blaster) port. I'm not sure if a IR blaster should have came with the unit and the manual the store printed off for me was for a European EH-55 w/160gb drive instead of the 200gb and did not even have the G-link port. I'll have to try and track down a official Canadian EH-55 manual(one without SCART ports:eek:)
Anyway off the the EH-55 thread to find answers/post questions.
What do you think citibear, should I have got the Pio? Do the current Pios still have FR where you can specify the resolution? I sure would like that option on my Pannys. I think I've read something about user adjustable resolutions on the Pios?
Too many DVDRs, too few ports on my TV:D Now I'm gonna have to get that Sony 4100 LCD w/4 hdmi ports and 2 component inputs:cool:
Of course now I'm in the same boat as many of you, hoping the analog TVGOS works after '09. At least the Sony LCD has digital TVGOS.

Jeff,

Here is the link to download the PDF version of the US/Canadian version of the manual:

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/support/Operating-Instructions/details-DMR-EH55S

In a two month old EH50 thread (that just came forward) you had asked me if I had used Regrip to help make brittle spindle rubber "tacky" again. I haven't used this product as all the rubber on my machines has been returned to its original condition with a cotton swab and 90% alcohol. Thank you for the tip.

(...)What do you think citibear, should I have got the Pio? Do the current Pios still have FR where you can specify the resolution? I sure would like that option on my Pannys. I think I've read something about user adjustable resolutions on the Pios?

Yes, current Pios still have the FR recording, and I'm *so* sorry I can't get to Canada and snap up a couple of PIO 650s! $299 is a steal for that machine- damn damn damn! Why did you have to tell me and spoil my day??:(:D

But I think you made the right choice for yourself. For some people, DVD/HDD recorders are like spouses: its absolutely critical that they LOVE the unit. Panasonic fans are usually not happy when they switch to another recorder, no slight to other mfrs, its just if you like Panasonic, you really like it. (Myself, I'm a Pioneer guy: I started on Pios four years ago and I'm used to using and repairing them.) Also, of the available "leftover" Canadian models, Panasonic's implementation of TVGOS seems to be the most reliable (I *hate* TVGOS, and was thrilled when Pioneer dropped it, but again everyone has their preferences.)

Just from putting my ear to the railroad tracks, Panasonic has been hinting in the trade press that they have now dropped HDD-equipped recorders in North America altogether, even in Canada, leaving the Canada DVD/HDD market to Pioneer, Sony and LG. Since you like Panny, you were indeed fortunate to get the "last one".

Yes, current Pios still have the FR recording, and I'm *so* sorry I can't get to Canada and snap up a couple of PIO 650s! $299 is a steal for that machine- damn damn damn! Why did you have to tell me and spoil my day??:(:D

But I think you made the right choice for yourself. For some people, DVD/HDD recorders are like spouses: its absolutely critical that they LOVE the unit.
:D:D
The sales guy was also a Pio guy saying he really liked his 650 but the possibility of the IR blaster port was a big part of my decision since I plan on using mine with a CECB. I was also curious about the TVGOS although being a VCR guy for 25 years time will tell what method I will prefer and ultimately use.

I was really shocked at the selection of DVDRs w/hdds although the numbers were slightly inflated due to their being both '07 and '08 models available.
Probably not a lot of people near Thunder Bay ON. but maybe other Future Shops have similar pricing and availability. I'll be going back through TB in September and report what's left.

You said the 650s have FR but do they also have the user adjustable resolution? As you may know Pannys have FR but the speeds themselves set the resolution, not the user. I think their would be a advantage of the user adjustable method, although maybe not.

Thanks for the link Digado I'll give my printer a work out. I too have had 100% success with the cleaning method. Maybe if the units are still around in 10 years well need to be 're-gripping" the spindle, for now cleaning seems to do the trick.

You said the 650s have FR but do they also have the user adjustable resolution? As you may know Pannys have FR but the speeds themselves set the resolution, not the user. I think their would be a advantage of the user adjustable method, although maybe not.

No, the Pios and the Pannys both link the resolution to the "speed". Neither will drop resolution until you get down to around the 5 hr "speed", by which point its usually too late. Not sure if any recorder ever had an independent resolution setting, but earlier Toshibas and JVCs at least positioned the resolution drop at about 3.5 hours, perfect for long sports broadcasts.

Thanks for clarifying, I could swear I read somewhere that Pios allowed the user to select the resolution, which I remember someone saying was a negative since most people would not know how to select the proper setting and might only complicate things. Maybe I read the post wrong:confused: Then I don't feel so bad, if the Pios didn't have that option. It would have been a selling point for me.
BTW I think? Pannys drop resolution on any speed above 4hrs LP. I admit I haven't really played with FR above 4hrs but I sure know changing from LP4 to the EP6 hour speed their is a huge drop in resolution and most FR speeds above FR3 tend to macroblock too much for my tastes. At least now that I'm in the HDD club I can get more than 1 or 2 hours of great resolution per recording. Events such as the Oscars or Grammys tend to run 3hrs and with all the confetti and bright flashing lights it gets too close to my macroblock tolerance for comfort. I don't archive stuff like that much anymore so it will be nice to watch and delete in better PQ.
Lastly on the Future Shop website they list the Pio 460 and 560 at $479 and $549 so the $299 price for the 550 is sure a great price. I doubt their will be any left in September when I return. No mention of the discounted prices at their website either. Only the new ones.

Some of us actually really like a properly implemented TVGOS feature, as it is in Toshibas and Panasonics. On the downside, the EH55 (and other Panasonics AFAIK) don't set the widesceen flag when recording. On the the other hand, Toshibas and I'm quite sure Pioneers do set it, but Pios no longer have TVGOS. Also, I believe Pios play DivX (only from a disc, though), but Toshibas and Panasonics don't. I also had an LG for a while a few years ago, but it had to be off for a timer recording to work IIRC, an annoying design blunder IMHO. Sony is supposed to be extra sensitive to copy protection, even producing false positives, I've heard. Neither of the latter has TVGOS. The Philips does play DivX and is the only model with ATSC/QAM, but doesn't set the widesceen flag when recording, has no TVGOS and is known to have some tuner issues.

Each has its plusses and minuses, but, alas, perfection is not of this world. You have to go with the machine that has the best combination of features for you. At least there are a few of all of these above HDD models still left to choose from up here, some of them at a bargain, but for how long?

I thought that Toshiba was the only one that ever set the widescreen flag, but I could be wrong.

I'm sure there are plenty of Pio owners around here that can answer that for sure, though.

And jjeff - you made the right choice. The Pio N. American HDD models will be around for awhile, anyway.

Also, an IR blaster should have came with it, but they're fairly cheap online I think.

And welcome to the club!

I thought that Toshiba was the only one that ever set the widescreen flag, but I could be wrong.

I'm sure there are plenty of Pio owners around here that can answer that for sure, though.

Indeed, I have no firsthand experience with this. The last Pio I owned was a 633, which I returned because of its infamous implementation of TVGOS, and that was before I started shooting widescreen with my DV cam, so it would be good if current Pio HDD DVDR owners could jump in here to let us know for sure.

I can attest firsthand to the fact that a Toshiba RD-XS35 sets the widescreen flag flawlessly. In fact, it has three settings to choose from when you record: automatic, 4:3 or 16:9. I use automatic and it detects that my DV cam footage is widescreen and sets the flag no problemo.:)

One significant problemo with this machine I forgot to mention, though, is I had to change a bum burner (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=884728). Another significant problemo is that of all the HDD DVDR manufacturers I mentioned above, it's the only one that is no longer available in Canada, or anywhere else in North America.:(

Edit: There's a dude on a popular auction site (http://cgi.*********/TOSHIBA-RD-XS35SU-160G-HDD-DVD-RECORDER_W0QQitemZ190229590977QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190229 590977&_trksid=p4295) selling one without a manual or remote. He says you can get them both online. The manual, yes, but the remote?!

Anyway, jjeff, Rammitinski is right. Your Panny is a good machine and likely to disappear before Pios do. Enjoy.

You can still pick up new EH55 at some London Drugs stores for $469. They sell
online as well.

I forgot to mention but on the Panasonic.ca website they list the following current machines:
ES-16(equiv. to US EZ-18), EZ-28(EZ-28), ES-36(EZ-38), EZ-48(EZ-48) and lastly they still list the ES-55 but I don't think it's long for this life, Future Shop is not listing them anymore either.
Ram, I sent a letter off to the store asking if they could locate the IR blaster, if not I suggested either they order one from Panasonic or reimburse me for one (only $15.50 + shipping). Their European manual didn't have the IR blaster option but the N. American one sure shows it should have been included. I'll sure be happy if its able to control my Channel Master(CM-7000) CECB. I've been getting great results recording off it to my EH-55. I'd guess ~90% the PQ of my returned EZ-28, plus with the HDD I'm able to use SP or even XP in more cases than before, resulting in even better PQ.

I forgot to mention but on the Panasonic.ca website they list the following current machines:
ES-16(equiv. to US EZ-18), EZ-28(EZ-28), ES-36(EZ-38), EZ-48(EZ-48) and lastly they still list the ES-55 but I don't think it's long for this life, Future Shop is not listing them anymore either.
Ram, I sent a letter off to the store asking if they could locate the IR blaster, if not I suggested either they order one from Panasonic or reimburse me for one (only $15.50 + shipping). Their European manual didn't have the IR blaster option but the N. American one sure shows it should have been included. I'll sure be happy if its able to control my Channel Master(CM-7000) CECB. I've been getting great results recording off it to my EH-55. I'd guess ~90% the PQ of my returned EZ-28, plus with the HDD I'm able to use SP or even XP in more cases than before, resulting in even better PQ.

ES16 is not equlal to EZ18 or ES36 to EA38. ES series are older models that were in US before ATSC tuner mandate.

The ES16 is the ES15 with DIVX, I believe.

:o I do stand corrected. It looks like you're correct. The ES-16 looks like a '06 US ES-15
I was assuming they were the tunerless EZ models like in the US. Looks like no "tuner free":D EZ models for Canada yet.

I forgot to mention but on the Panasonic.ca website they list the following current machines:
ES-16(equiv. to US EZ-18), EZ-28(EZ-28), ES-36(EZ-38), EZ-48(EZ-48) and lastly they still list the ES-55 but I don't think it's long for this life, Future Shop is not listing them anymore either.
Ram, I sent a letter off to the store asking if they could locate the IR blaster, if not I suggested either they order one from Panasonic or reimburse me for one (only $15.50 + shipping). Their European manual didn't have the IR blaster option but the N. American one sure shows it should have been included. I'll sure be happy if its able to control my Channel Master(CM-7000) CECB. I've been getting great results recording off it to my EH-55. I'd guess ~90% the PQ of my returned EZ-28, plus with the HDD I'm able to use SP or even XP in more cases than before, resulting in even better PQ.

Yeah, TVGOS and the IR blasters kind of go hand in hand, at least with the SD recorders, so it definitely should have one. I've had one included with all my TVGOS units.

A lot of times places just keep boxes of loose parts in the storeroom. You could try whichever they give you if they can dig one up. I know some people here say they can't be cross-used among brands, but I've never had any problem doing that with the Sony and Panasonic ones I've got, even when using them with my Accurian (which uses a Pioneer code like the CM).

Nearly all IR blasters are the same, most are re-purposed from the mfrs VHS "VCR+" parts bins. As long as your unit uses the fairly standard 3.5mm jack for the blaster, they are often interchangeable.

The widescreen flag issue is one of those insanely obvious points that nearly every damn mfr missed the boat on, and continues to miss. The ONLY one that ever got this right was Toshiba, whose hard disk models allowed the user to freely select the flag implementation. Unfortunately as mentioned, those particular Toshibas were equipped with the burners from hell, making a used one a risky proposition unless you're technically inclined. Panasonic will sometimes set the flag on the HDD or on DVD-RAM discs, but will not transfer the flag to DVD-R. Pioneer is oblivious to the flag altogether, except when it randomly (and annoyingly) pauses a recording if it senses a broadcast shift from widescreen to 4:3 and back. Other manufacturers are so haphazard in their approach that there's no point in discussing them: they are so picky about the circumstances that its all but impossible to get the flag recorded.

Ah, so you're confirming firsthand that Pioneer HDD DVDRs do *not* set the widescreen flag? That's a bummer, but thanks for the heads up.

Any Canadian shops that will ship to the US?

London Drugs specifically states they ship only to Canada.

I did a search using www.canoe.ca and found Aden Camera in Toronto will ship tot he US. Any others?

Looking for EH55.

I have an E95H, and would like another Panasonic. Also have a Philips and a Toshiba HDD/DVD burner, but prefer the user interface of the Panasonic. Tuner is not important, so have also considered the European EH67.

Thanks.

Mike

Ah, so you're confirming firsthand that Pioneer HDD DVDRs do *not* set the widescreen flag? That's a bummer, but thanks for the heads up.

Pioneer recorders will set the widescreen flag if it is in the signal. However most receivers do not send it. I have DVR-550H international model and it works no problem if I feed signal from D* Tivo as it sends the flag. New D* receivers do not send the widescreen flag so it records anamorphic widescreen, but without a flag DVD players just show stretched picture.

How about widescreen footage from a DV camera via firewire?

How about widescreen footage from a DV camera via firewire?


Yes it works fine. It records it in widescreen.

Great! And if you burn a DVD with that widescreen footage from the HDD, does the DVD still have the widescreen flag? In other words, will it play correctly not only on a widescreen TV, but also with the correct aspect ratio (not squished) on a standard 4:3 TV?

N...

The widescreen flag issue is one of those insanely obvious points that nearly every damn mfr missed the boat on, and continues to miss. The ONLY one that ever got this right was Toshiba, whose hard disk models allowed the user to freely select the flag implementation. U...

I think the older Sony's like the HX-900 also got this right. ;)

The lack of control over the widescreen flag on most DVR models is annoying, but not really a big deal. Most TVs can override the aspect ratio on playback now, and it doesn't matter to me when I'm making a permanent DVD because I do that on the computer where I can set the flag using IFOEdit.

If anyone is interested I have a perfectly good Panasonic E80H I would like to sell. Send me a PM.

I also have a Panasonic E-80, buy I would not describe it or any other 5 year old HDD DVD recorder as perfectly good. From regular use, its remote control is worn out and its tray mechanism often refuses to open up. The E-80's maximum high speed dub was always 2X In other words, "perfectly good" is not a term to use to describe a 5 year old electronic unit with so many functions that can go wrong, IMHO.

A bit off-topic, but I wonder if Canadians will be be seeing many more DVD recorders in the future, if the federal government's proposed Bill C-61 ever goes through. Personal recordings of broadcasts are permitted only if "the individual keeps the recording no longer than necessary in order to listen to or watch the program at a more convenient time". In other words, forget about recording a DVD collection of your favorite series, unless you are willing to throw away or erase each disc after you've watched it. :(

Tony

A bit off-topic, but I wonder if Canadians will be be seeing many more DVD recorders in the future, if the federal government's proposed Bill C-61 ever goes through. Personal recordings of broadcasts are permitted only if "the individual keeps the recording no longer than necessary in order to listen to or watch the program at a more convenient time". In other words, forget about recording a DVD collection of your favorite series, unless you are willing to throw away or erase each disc after you've watched it. :(

Tony

And of course, as expected, we will also sit through commercials, and promise not to use the Fast Forward or Commercial Skip button...

A bit off-topic, but I wonder if Canadians will be be seeing many more DVD recorders in the future, if the federal government's proposed Bill C-61 ever goes through. Personal recordings of broadcasts are permitted only if "the individual keeps the recording no longer than necessary in order to listen to or watch the program at a more convenient time".If anything, this is a reason why HDD DVD recorders SHOULD be available. With a DVD-only recorder, you're going to end up with a permanent copy (unless you're using RW media). HDDs are perfect for timeshifting.

In reality, it seems unlikely to me that this legislation would have a significant impact on anyone's habits even if it was passed...