Actually this could probably be even considered a Rhetorical question..
I have a marquee 9500 lc ultra. Thanks to the 'built like a tank' design of marquee, the glycol reaction with aluminum in the LC tubes caused Green tube haze... my projector had to be dismounted and sent for repair - along with a repair for HDM board. Fortunately, there's the marquee guru..Tim Martin. Tim seems to be a great guy - of course I don't actually have the projector back and working yet! Its on its way back..

While it was at Tim's for repair, I thought I might as well have the Mike Parker mods done.. cuz everyone raves about them. And then the six pole magnets were being suggested..of course I had to get them too.. But.. I gave up on franken yokes.. Just did not like the idea of pulling out some old yokes and ask for more trouble.. some of the guys with CRTs are simply too smart for our good (they can fix problems if any arise with such mods but many of us cannot!).

Then someone suggested a lumagen processor.. Why do I need a scaler I ask? I am perfectly happy with my Directv DVrs and my DVI to RGBHV box.. No get a scaler say fellow members... now.. might as well get an SDI scaler.. Oh by the way, get an OPPO modified for SDI output!.... there goes another $2000 for scaler, $425 for SDI mod.. Why not get HD-SDI mod too? STOP.. this is getting to be too much! Isn't BD HDMI supposed to be state of the art?

Long story short.. with calibration, shipping etc.. this glycol problem lead from one thing to another "might as well" leading to a $6000 expense (I was perfectly happy with my projector until then!). Now I started wondering.. What was I thinking? Why did I not simply scrap the 250lb beast and go with a RS2? For one reason.. I had installed for a friend, a NEC $56,000 3 chip DLP about 3 years ago. My CRT picture is still superior to that - contrast and 3 dimensionality.. Now I am hearing that the RS2 and its high contrast siblings have equalled the three dimensionality of a CRT.. I just can't believe it.. When I totalled everything up today.. I am kind of wondering.. "what was I thinking? Certainly not the brightest bulb on the forum!!" And I have not even seen the picture yet.. wait for the 250 lbs beast to be shipped, taken down to my basement, ceiling mounted, calibrator working for 2 days .. Jeez!! Why do we still own CRTs?

I guess its too late now..

Please note that this is not really meant to be a flaming discussion.. just a humorous regret/wondering ... "what was I thinking?". Is the RS2 or the sony watchamacallit that close to a CRT or better?
If any of you marquee 9500 owners have personal experience with these two digitals.. please comment..

I've never seen the RS2 yet, but I have the RS1 and I just love it. Don't get me wrong, the 9500LC puts out a nice picture... but for all the tweaking time I put into it, the RS1 was almost a mount on the ceiling and start watching the picture. By the way, I have the Lumagen VisionProHDP and I just love it too.

I've never seen the RS2 yet, but I have the RS1 and I just love it. Don't get me wrong, the 9500LC puts out a nice picture... but for all the tweaking time I put into it, the RS1 was almost a mount on the ceiling and start watching the picture. By the way, I have the Lumagen VisionProHDP and I just love it too.You had the 9500? I am getting the lumagen hdq (for SDI). I have never understood the need for a video processor with a Digital. In the old days, I tried a Faroudja NRS with my DILA.. couldn't see much of an improvement...
Anyway... you make me sad.. RS1 is as good? Pity... remember the 3 dimensionality of a CRT? REally.. nothing comes close... Well one of these days, I have to go see a new gen digital!

not a 9500 but I did a hardware review of the RS2 compared to my current CRT (a NEC 1352LC), you can read here:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/display-devices-tvs-projectors/271226-htf-official-hardware-review-jvc-dla-hd100-rs2-d-ila-projector.html

-Gary

not a 9500 but I did a hardware review of the RS2 compared to my current CRT (a NEC 1352LC), you can read here:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/display-devices-tvs-projectors/271226-htf-official-hardware-review-jvc-dla-hd100-rs2-d-ila-projector.html
-Gary Very nice review. Why don't U just call me dumb instead!.. I just could not throw away the CRT - especially after Tim said that the tubes were in very strong condition! I gotta see this RS2 - any members near milwaukee - norther IL area?

thanks a bunch

the RS2 does not get to CRT quality just yet IMHO, that is compared to my 1352, the 9500 should be even sharper

if you are a movie lover, keep the CRT

games, TV, sports, occasional movie etc. RS2 might be better

-Gary

While I have not yet seen the best of digitals.. I do own two sony hs51 lcd projectors (55" and 80"wide screens). The motion blur is not a big problem in these LCD projectors, the few single chip DLPs I have seen do have, against my preference, serious motion blurr issue. So seem some flat panel TVs. The rainbow or color wheel or such problems don't bother me but I am more sensitive to motion blurr.. and many digitals seem to have it.. perhaps I am in the minority..

I don't own either projector, but I have seen the Madrigal Mp9 many times and I recently saw the 9500 at a fellow members home. I saw the RS1 just yesterday and hear that the RS2 is not drastically different.

From what i have seen, I still see no reason to give up a top pf the line CRT machine with mods for a digital. The RS1 was very nice for a digital, but still can't put out a picture that makes me think I'm in a movie theater just yet. Close I would say, and still impressive, but not to where I would like it to be. But I would imagine if your eye is not as critical, you would enjoy it immensely.

Given that a single-chip DLP works by altering the image on the panel three times for every frame, and given that color generation would completely break down if the panel couldn't refresh completely almost instantly, I find it difficult to believe that there is 'motion blur' unless it's introduced at a preprocessing stage.

But that would require a significant framebuffer on board the projector - and that would result in audio/video desync, which nobody has mentioned and I have not seen.

I think some of this is the anti-placebo effect. Perhaps I'm wrong and someone can explain this, but I can't see how motion blur on a DLP could be possible without audio desync, even if you WANTED to do it.

RS1 or 2 will make you think twice about any CRT projector its that simple and easy.....CRT days are overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....Yea I stil lhave a CRT and when it blows its over.....RS1 or 2 will take its place....

No reason for a scaler with a digital huh? I know your kidding....your kidding right......?


Shouldnt be saying such silly things you could be concidered not too credible.

No reason for a scaler with a digital huh? I know your kidding....your kidding right......? Do you have a high end 9" CRT? No I was not kidding about scaler for digital.. Sorry!... yes you can poke fun at me! I haven't tried it on the new generation digital but about 7 years ago, I spent around $16,000 or so on a jvc DILA G10-1st gen and got a faroudja NRS for DILA scaler for $5000. They are both excellent - as door stops. I really did not notice much improvement, if any, with the faroudja at that time. The dila was professionally calibrated by William. At that time, I thought I would use the CRT for 95" wide TV viewing and the DILA at 150" for movies.. The size of the picture was impressive and bright enough (400/450 Watt xenon) but the old DILA projectors simply did not have much contrast. As I wrote above, I actually installed a $56k NEC 3 chip professional projector for a friend. The image is huge and bright but it simply does not have CRT depth and "there is something about a 9" well tuned CRT" that I can't quantify - as compared to that NEC. Of course, the RS2 picture might be better, albeit less bright, than even the $56k NEC.. since technology gained significantly in the past 3 years.

RS1 or 2 will make you think twice about any CRT projector its that simple and easy.....CRT days are overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....Yea I stil lhave a CRT and when it blows its over.....RS1 or 2 will take its place....

No reason for a scaler with a digital huh? I know your kidding....your kidding right......?


Shouldnt be saying such silly things you could be concidered not too credible.

not so fast, did you check my review above? this CRT lover didn't come to that conclusion at all

for film lovers the CRT is the only game in town, fast and simple has nothing to do with it :p

-Gary

I went through the same dilemma, retube a 9500 or RS2. RS2 won for many reasons. I dont regret the switch at all and I am ecstatic every day I go in the theater and turn on the RS2! I am still in awe at how good a picture it throws. It is very different than the 9500 but to my untrained eyes it is in a practical sense much more satisfying. in real viewing material it goes as dark as the CRT but in a different way. That ANSI contrast makes the image jump off the screen. I have never once regretted my decision. That being said, I am not a videophile and never pursued the last 10% of quality of the 9500. i am very practical with very little time to spare to tinker with a projector...

For me, CRT is still king, but I have a stack that walks all over the RS2 so......... :cool:

Cliff

I like my RS1 but CRt is still the gold standard. I've seen the RS2 and the blacks are better than the RS1, but it comes at the cost of light. As it is the RS1 is no light cannon. I only get about 8.5 FL on my screen with a new bulb and that drops to 8 after 100 hours, and then to 6 at 600 hours. If someone was to go from CRT to Digital I would suggest the RS1, unless they have a small screen.

Don,

What gain screen are you using with the RS1?

How different is the Rs-2 from the Rs-1?

I've seen the RS-1 several times and the picture is not that pleasing to me.

As everyone here knows, I have a fully ticked out MP 9500LC ultra fed by a souped up Moome card and a Lumagen Radiance.

I have had at various times the following current digital projectors. RS1/S2, 11S2, VPL-vw200, 3Cx 1080p.

If you want to discus these against the CRT, call me at 240 876 2536.

When doing A v B v C etc, the RS1/S2 quickly get retired. The others get watched and no one clamors for a change. I prefer the simplicity of the digitals. The 3Cx 1080 is too bright for my 110"D 1.3 gain white screen. most of te time I watch the CRT. Digitals are costantly evolving and substantial improvements to one of my favorites are coming this Sept.

No flame or more here. What i know can not be posted. call if you want to discuss.

Don,

What gain screen are you using with the RS1?

Da-Lite 1.3 Gain on a Cinema Contour, Currently SMX that's what the measurements were taken on.

The RS2 has better contrast, but lower light output. The primaries are still not correct with out an external box, and the panels are still slow.

Things are getting better, but I'm not dropping anymore money on projector till they get the issues above address. I'm very happy with the RS1. I don't mind the $250 dollars for the bulb, even at 550 hours it was still very watchable. If I'd had the room for the Sony G90 I would have kept it. CRT is still the gold standard in my book.

From what i have seen, I still see no reason to give up a top pf the line CRT machine with mods for a digital. The RS1 was very nice for a digital, but still can't put out a picture that makes me think I'm in a movie theater just yet. .
I sincerely hope so. A movie theater has poor contrast compared to CRT or RS1/2.

.... fast and simple has nothing to do with it

Yep just ask Any woman :D

Athanasios

I also recently switched from 9500 Ultra to RS2. I had been using my 9500 for 7 years and so I am very familiar with the picture that the 9500 can produce. My 9500 was properly calibrated, but it was otherwise stock with no mods and I was using it with Moon-Jong internal card-scaler that has DVI-input, so the image was scaled to 1080P at all times.

I must say that it is a very rare event when I actually notice any superiority of 9500 to RS2. Perhaps if my 9500 had mods, my opinion would have been different. For the most part the RS2 is sharper, brighter and by far more uniform in terms of color, contrast and brightness across the screen. The picture is also more vivid.

Well, - the 9500 was sold and I do not miss it. If anyone wants the Moon-Jong card, let me know.

I also recently switched from 9500 Ultra to RS2. I had been using my 9500 for 7 years and so I am very familiar with the picture that the 9500 can produce. My 9500 was properly calibrated, but it was otherwise stock with no mods and I was using it with Moon-Jong internal card-scaler that has DVI-input, so the image was scaled to 1080P at all times.

I must say that it is a very rare event when I actually notice any superiority of 9500 to RS2. Perhaps if my 9500 had mods, my opinion would have been different. For the most part the RS2 is sharper, brighter and by far more uniform in terms of color, contrast and brightness across the screen. The picture is also more vivid.

Well, - the 9500 was sold and I do not miss it. If anyone wants the Moon-Jong card, let me know.Very happy to hear an experienced user's opinion. As with you, I too used my projector for 7 years and now it is modded with Mike Parker Mods and 6 pole magnets. Craig is setting it up tomorrow.. Crossing my fingers.. I will post whether or not I can notice whether the mods made a clear improvement. Vadim.. do you see any motion blur on the digital (during fast pan of camera for example).

Very happy to hear an experienced user's opinion. As with you, I too used my projector for 7 years and now it is modded with Mike Parker Mods and 6 pole magnets. Craig is setting it up tomorrow.. Crossing my fingers.. I will post whether or not I can notice whether the mods made a clear improvement. Vadim.. do you see any motion blur on the digital (during fast pan of camera for example).

Awesome !!!! Tell Craig that Athansios says hello. he'll do a great job. cant wait to hear your thoughts on the final setup. and if he could maybe post his thoughts on the MP mods and how it calibrates compared to an unmodded Marquee.

Athanasios

... do you see any motion blur on the digital (during fast pan of camera for example).
I do not see the blur at all. Certainly with BR source the image is fantastic with no artifacts.

Tell Craig that Athansios says hello. he'll do a great job. AthanasiosAthanasois, Actually I told Craig already that it was based on your suggestion that I contacted him and went with him..

Athanasios
Did he use a Philips 5639 Colorimeter when he did yours ?



Bruce

Athanasios
Did he use a Philips 5639 Colorimeter when he did yours ?



Bruce

I dont remeber....it was over a year ago before i really got into all the technical things with CRT. Back then Evrything was over my head . If he comes back again I'll definitley pay attention. but it was a very good calibration. I was very very supprised at how much the picture inproved after he was done. Before I thought i did a good job eyeing it, boy was I wrong, my set up looked flat no depth afet Craig was done it was very 3D. Even he was suprised at how nice it looked on my 12 foot screen. He said if I thought that looked great i should try it on a smaller screen and to be ready for a much bigger improvement.

Athanasios

OK I thought I read somewhere that is what he used to use and was just curious I need someone with one to confirm something for me . Yep it Makes a big difference in detail and depth or three dimensionality of an image, which was surprising to me that a pro calibration would make such a difference the first time I saw one Professionally calibrated.

Bruce

Yep it Makes a big difference in detail and depth or three dimensionality of an image, which was surprising to me that a pro calibration would make such a difference the first time I saw one Professionally calibrated.

Bruce

Yep, then make it 10 foot lamberts at 10ft wide, pump gamma correction which will lower your black floor by a minimum of 10 clicks on the brightness (I went from 50 to 40 and 80 on Contrast with the G90's), still get all of that wonderful detail, and pump 80K to one Contrast. It's a site to behold. :D

RS What? :eek::cool:

Cliffy

Yep, then make it 10 foot lamberts at 10ft wide, pump gamma correction which will lower your black floor by a minimum of 10 clicks on the brightness (I went from 50 to 40 and 80 on Contrast with the G90's), still get all of that wonderful detail, and pump 80K to one Contrast. It's a site to behold. :D

RS What? :eek::cool:

Cliffy


I would like to come and see the stack actually.
Maybe I will squeeze in another summer trip down that way and see what all the hype is about :)

Bruce

What hype? It really is that good! :p

What hype? It really is that good! :p

I know it is! I was just having fun . So how close are they to a Marquee Blend? ;)

here is what Craig uses:

http://www.cir-engineering.com/equipment.php

he is one swell guy for sure ;)

-Gary

I know it is! I was just having fun . So how close are they to a Marquee Blend? ;)
They aren't just any regular modded marquee's, they are something very special. I was hoping that Cliff could make that comparison as it would sound less biased coming from him :p;)

That will have to wait until Ken makes his trip down (or when I fly Cliff back down under) which will hopefully be sooner rather than later.

Well getting back to the comparison between a Marquee and an RS2...
I also have a 9500LC with MP mods... and I also have questioned why I have spent so much money on it! Tons of money. However the picture really is fabulous! Especially if you consider several things: The refresh rate of a CRT projector can be much faster than that of an RS2 or most fixed pixel display types. In my case, I watch DVDs from my HTPC running FFDshow and Re-Clock software. With this software combination, you can watch a movie in the native frame rate that is on the disk. In the case of a movie, it is usually 24 FPS. By driving a CRT at 72HZ refresh, each frame is retraced 3 times and creates that "dimensional" picture we all have talked about. In this case, it is frame rate related. You can't drive an RS2 at 72HZ refresh to do this. It seems funny to me that 1080p 60 is kind of the gold standard because it is forcing a 3-2 pull down into an otherwise progressive 24 FPS material. This is why we are seeing 1080p 24 players and the RS2 can do that but the motion is still not the same to me. Also, I know many people will agree that the CRT has a "smoothing" quality to the image, especially
images that are scaled up from standard definition like DVDs. As was mentioned before, there are pros and cons, to the CRT but a fully MP modded Marquee with minty tubes and a great calibration is something to brag about!

Dave

My projector progression has been Marquee 8000 to 9500LC Ultra to Sony VW100 to Sony VW200. My primary motivation in giving up CRT (around end 2006) in favor of digital was ease/maintenence. I just got sick of all the tweaking, converging, ISF-ing, etc. with the CRT - plus I figured CRTs were going to lose most of their resale value.

My experience tracks the general opinions - digitals are brighter and sharper but lack really good black levels. My current Sony VW200 is a really nice projector, does colors really well, and I can live with the lack of true black.

No regrets at all!

Watched a movie tonight with my family... long live the unique qualities of the CRT projector. I believe that a big part of the great picture is the frame rate that is reproduced by the HTPC. A well mastered 24FPS DVD can be superb. I run my Marquee at 1024x768 in anamorphic squeezed mode when watch a DVD encoded that way and 1280x960 when it is a non-squeezed disk. Usually at 72HZ vertical scan rate. Couldn't be happier with the picture quality....

Just my opinion!

Dave

thanks a bunch

the RS2 does not get to CRT quality just yet IMHO, that is compared to my 1352, the 9500 should be even sharper

if you are a movie lover, keep the CRT

games, TV, sports, occasional movie etc. RS2 might be better

-Gary

Gary, that review has text run-off on my 16:10 screen. I think if you formatted it to have shorter lines, then more people would read it?
I can't. I would have to scroll my screen for each individual line. :)

Eddie

I use a 16:10 myself and is what I write and format my reviews for (1680x1050)

the problem is the HTF software, there isn't much I can do about it short of trying a few HTML tricks, sorry about that dude

-Gary

I used to have a Barco G808, and I left it for the RS1. It needed a lot of work, some geometry issues, consequently convergence issues, and really bad streaking. I was looking at doing a major overhaul, or more likely just getting another CRT alltogether. If I had done that, then I would want to get a 9" for 1080p, and of course the expensive Mike Parker mods would be a must, and yada yada yada. 10k minimum is what it would have cost me. So I'd been hearing alot about the RS1, and heard a place in town had a demo set up, so I thought I'd pop in to a take a look purely out of curiousity. It was on a 96" Firehawk and the image was just breathtaking. So bright, vibrant, and the blacks were very black. See actually thanks to the streaking issue of my 808, low light level scenes on the RS1 have alot more shadow detail than my 808 did. Doom on HD DVD is a revelation on the RS1 after seeing it on the 808.

I've seen well set up 9" CRT projectors, and know they can look as good or better... but this looked almost as good or as good as those with 10 minutes of set up. No worries of burn in(which my Barco had some from the occasional gaming that I do, plus uneven burn on the top and bottom thanks to 2:35.1 movies). As much as I watch, it's just under $300 for a bulb once a year, or replace tubes every 5 years, vs 808 tubes I'd have broke even, vs 9" tubes, I'm saving money. Add to that, we were about to move out of state, and the thought of moving and setting up a CRT in a new home was just depressing, much moreso after seeing the RS1.

So now I watch the RS1 with a 147in HP screen, and enjoy a sharp, brighter image(even with 1820 hours on the bulb), than I ever had with the 808. I loved my 808, when I first discovered the concept of front projectors, and was flat broke, I got a really nice deal on it, and I enjoyed it for 4 years(considering the nicest digital at the time was the Sony HS10, with a 900:1 contrast for 5k, CRT was the only option). But when I saw the RS1, I knew it was time to move on. Now in a few years they should have lampless laser projectors with 500,000:1 or better contrast ratios, till then, I'm happy as a clam.

Coming from an 808 in need of work, the only sacrifice was a perfect fade to black, thats it.

plissken99 - you are using 147" wide screen with your Rs1? What gain?

plissken99 - you are using 147" wide screen with your Rs1? What gain?
High power, a 2.8 gain. There is a viewing cone with high power, but the screen is so wide, it's still uniform across the seating positions. :)

Retro screens like the HP will have different gains at different seating positions, determined by how far your eye is from the lens. But at any particular position the entire screen should have about the same gain. So even though somebody on the end seat may see an overall dimmer picture than you see sitting right under the pj, he will still see a very uniform image with no noticeable hotspot. That's one of the big advantages of retro screens.

whats a HP? Retro?

HP = high power. I never got the term retro reflective, but basically it's a high gain screen, adds a lot of punch to the image. I thought about a Firehawk in a more moderate size, but the blacks of the RS1 are so good(and it's actually pretty bright as digitals go, outputs close to spec after calibration, unlike most), so I went with high power.

I went through this 2 months ago... I had leaking glycol problems and had to ship my 9500LC (MP modded) back to a repair center to fix some boards and get 1 new tube. I hesitated first then went for the rs2. Its a great machine for slideshow, games, and computer use.... very good sharpness and excellent blacks. For static images, you can't get better :)
Unfortunatly I found out I was very suseptible to motion blur and that annoyed me to the point of returning it. This was mostly apparent to me in video material with rapid people motion (faces and skins). I am looking for having a PWM machine (a marantz DLP) in the next few days and will try this tech out.

Unfortunatly I found out I was very suseptible to motion blur and that annoyed me to the point of returning it. This was mostly apparent to me in video material with rapid people motion (faces and skins). I am looking for having a PWM machine (a marantz DLP) in the next few days and will try this tech out.Wow.. its a small world! Exact same issue! What did you do with your projector? Just scrapped it?
I thought too am sensitive to motion blur. I have two Sony HS51 LCD projectors. I watch one of them daily -exercise room. I don't seem to notice it but its usually news etc. Now that you brought it up, I should try and see if I can sense motion blurr in the sony lcd also. Years ago, motion blurr was most obvious to me in a DLP - a sharp 12000. I own a jvc dila g10 - no longer in use - I don't recall motion blurr on the old DILA.
The CRTs have the smoothness of a picture that seems quite smooth and pleasingly unique. I think I need to go to Cedia this year and view this RS2 myself!

HP = high power. I never got the term retro reflective,
Retro-reflective == it reflects back to the source, like a stop sign. The closer your eye is to the light source, the higher the gain. The angle of the screen doesn't matter much (just like the angle of the stop sign doesn't affect its brightness), so these screens don't hotspot much. But you have to have your eyes fairly close to the pj to get good gain.

Angular reflective == it reflects like a mirror, only obviously with more dispersal of the light. If the light source is to the right of the screen, the maximum gain point is at an equivalent angle on the left of the screen. High-gain angular screens suffer from hotspotting; the extreme case is a mirror, where the hotspot is so bad you can see a perfect reflection of the source! With lower gain the reflection spreads out, so you don't actually see a reflection of the projector, but you see a brighter area in the max-gain area. By the time you get down around 1.0 gain, it disperses the light so widely that there isn't really any hotspotting, but of course you have low gain.

I see, the term makes sense as the more toward the center of the screen I get the projector the brighter it is.

Also the motion blur thing, I've never noticed bad motion blurr on mine, especially when I feed it 1080p24 from Blu Ray and HD DVD. Actually with 24fps it does better on motion than the 808 did.

I've seen 4 different RS-1's, one of them fully isf'd by Michael Chen. None of them did what I would call black, even if I was being GENEROUS.

I've seen 4 different RS-1's, one of them fully isf'd by Michael Chen. None of them did what I would call black, even if I was being GENEROUS.
No on a fade to black, it's most assuredly not black. However dark scenes with bright objects here and there give an excellent illusion of true black. As I said the one and only downside to the RS1 is the lack of actual black, but since there's so much more to an image, it balances out.

I've seen 4 different RS-1's, one of them fully isf'd by Michael Chen. None of them did what I would call black, even if I was being GENEROUS.

I recently saw a RS2, and I had the same thought. It looked very very very good, until you pay attention to black. Even with bright objects on screen, it got to me, and I'm sure in my home, where I nitpick the hell out of the picture, it would drive me crazy. I will be happy to see the day when an inexpensive digital does blacks.