Looks like I'll have to hold off on the appliances (well, get a fridge at least)
and just grab the 141 for the new home. I'll get a stove and a dishwasher
later. I use the microwave more anyhow. :)

Okay, so maybe I'm just joking... but just in case... ;)

What is the profile (depth) of the Pioneer KRP-WM01 ?? To be honest, one of the nicest features is flat against the wall, so for me, I'd pay more for even a .25 inch difference.

I'll have to find out, but I thought the KRP-WM01 was 3/4" depth.... to me, it would be great to have the lowest profile possible, why give up any more depth than you have to, that is one of the major strengths of this monitor.... hate to give up uneccessary depth to a mount.

What is the profile (depth) of the Pioneer KRP-WM01 ?? To be honest, one of the nicest features is flat against the wall, so for me, I'd pay more for even a .25 inch difference.

I'll have to find out, but I thought the KRP-WM01 was 3/4" depth.... to me, it would be great to have the lowest profile possible, why give up any more depth than you have to, that is one of the major strengths of this monitor.... hate to give up uneccessary depth to a mount.
Depth of the KRP-WM01 is 31/32". Total depth including the PRO-141FD is therefore 3.5".

What is the profile (depth) of the Pioneer KRP-WM01 ?? To be honest, one of the nicest features is flat against the wall, so for me, I'd pay more for even a .25 inch difference.

I'll have to find out, but I thought the KRP-WM01 was 3/4" depth.... to me, it would be great to have the lowest profile possible, why give up any more depth than you have to, that is one of the major strengths of this monitor.... hate to give up uneccessary depth to a mount.

I would buy the pioneer mount if you are after a total low profile. The reason I want a bit of distance between the display and wall is to be able to put Ideal Lume lighting behind the display and have my dispaly stick out the same as my on wall speakers.

im buying the sanus VMPL3-01

I have found very few mounts fit the holes of the 60" pioneers.




Peerless SF670 / ST670....?

Health Nut, thanks for the pics! WOW, that baby is thin! For me, I'd prefer an "articulating arm" mount for the flexibility of uses. Are you planning on hooking it up to a computer?

Can someone please tell me the cost of the Pioneer wall mount?

EDIT: I found the price $350.00 MSRP

-- Bill --

I started an owners thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1059491

Can someone please tell me the cost of the Pioneer wall mount?

-- Bill --

apx $400 CDN

apx $400 CDN

Thanks for the Canadian pricing.

Please let us know if there are any issues using the Sanus VMPL3...I'm very interested in option also.

Cheers!

-- Bill --

What is the profile (depth) of the Pioneer KRP-WM01 ?? To be honest, one of the nicest features is flat against the wall, so for me, I'd pay more for even a .25 inch difference.

I'll have to find out, but I thought the KRP-WM01 was 3/4" depth.... to me, it would be great to have the lowest profile possible, why give up any more depth than you have to, that is one of the major strengths of this monitor.... hate to give up uneccessary depth to a mount.

Well you are not going to get the .25 inch difference in a ultra low profile mount. I just double checked the pioneer mount is .98" profile and the promounts 300 series is also .98". So for 1/3 the price you are going to get the same flush mount.
I mean it's up to each buyer to decide what they want, but for the money I think it a better deal. The quality in promounts is excellent, so I personally wouldn't pay 3 times the price for pretty much the same thing.

Depth of the KRP-WM01 is 31/32". Total depth including the PRO-141FD is therefore 3.5".

The 141 is 2.5 inches, so that's a fixed depth. You can't shrink that, but you can get a different mount, so .98" is the shallowest depth that exists as far as I'm aware. I pretty sure anything beyond that won't be possible considering the TV is 110lbs in weight.

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I didn't realize the 141 has no external color sensor attachment as in the 151. Any thoughts about how this ultimately impacts potential picture quality? I don't have a sensor on my 150, so I'm not sure how this impacts PQ/color on the 151.

D-Nice, any experience here?

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I didn't realize the 141 has no external color sensor attachment as in the 151. Any thoughts about how this ultimately impacts potential picture quality? I don't have a sensor on my 150, so I'm not sure how this impacts PQ/color on the 151.

D-Nice, any experience here?I'm still testing the color sensor.

Thanks, I'll stay tuned.

Actually the Sanus vmpl models need an additional special adaptor in order to work with the 60" Pioneer TV's. The mounting holes on the pioneer 60" TV are VESA 900 standard and are too far apart for most standard wall mounts VESA 600/800. I would recommend the Promounts UF-PRO300 or UT-PRO310.

The pro300 is about 1 inch of the wall, so very close to the pioneer mount.

The adapter is the VMB1 and works like a charm on the VMPL2.

Well you are not going to get the .25 inch difference in a ultra low profile mount. I just double checked the pioneer mount is .98" profile and the promounts 300 series is also .98". So for 1/3 the price you are going to get the same flush mount.
I mean it's up to each buyer to decide what they want, but for the money I think it a better deal. The quality in promounts is excellent, so I personally wouldn't pay 3 times the price for pretty much the same thing.

I would tend to agree :D Especially when this is a fixed wall mount.

Should I get the Promounts UF-PRO300 or UT-PRO310? Does this need an adaptor?

That is awesome.

I am using my 151FD strictly as a monitor... would have loved the ability to turn on/off the display via network connection like you can with your 141. That is a cool feature!

I'm trying to understand why this is a 'cool feature'. Why is this preferable to doing the same with the 141's remote? I've never left the house and forgot to turn off the TV. If I had this network capability, I'd have to get access to a computer away from home since I tend not to carry a laptop when I'm out of the house. So maybe I'm missing something? :confused:

I'm trying to understand why this is a 'cool feature'. Why is this preferable to doing the same with the 141's remote? I've never left the house and forgot to turn off the TV. If I had this network capability, I'd have to get access to a computer away from home since I tend not to carry a laptop when I'm out of the house. So maybe I'm missing something? :confused:

Phone? Slingbox?

Yes!!!

Now that would be great if the 141 could perform real network capability and not be strapped.

All the new products at cedia are promoting this wireless evolution. Very cool.

Paul

I'm trying to understand why this is a 'cool feature'. Why is this preferable to doing the same with the 141's remote? I've never left the house and forgot to turn off the TV. If I had this network capability, I'd have to get access to a computer away from home since I tend not to carry a laptop when I'm out of the house. So maybe I'm missing something? :confused:

It is a "cool" (actually I should describe it as "very useful") because, like many, I have a desktop in one room, at least one laptop "open" somewhere around the house. I'm not always planted in front the TV, or the remote. Having the ability to turn off the TV after we've left the room, or, are closer to a PC/laptop than a remote is remarkably convenient. I have this feature for my AV receiver and find it very useful.

I'm trying to understand why this is a 'cool feature'. Why is this preferable to doing the same with the 141's remote? I've never left the house and forgot to turn off the TV. If I had this network capability, I'd have to get access to a computer away from home since I tend not to carry a laptop when I'm out of the house. So maybe I'm missing something? :confused:

I thought of another cool thing to do with this feature. Think of how much fun you could have messing with the wife from work.

It is a "cool" (actually I should describe it as "very useful") because, like many, I have a desktop in one room, at least one laptop "open" somewhere around the house. I'm not always planted in front the TV, or the remote. Having the ability to turn off the TV after we've left the room, or, are closer to a PC/laptop than a remote is remarkably convenient. I have this feature for my AV receiver and find it very useful.
yeah, that's kinda neat.

Actually it looks like more settings are available by getting into the 141 via the network then remote...

stay tuned.

It is a "cool" (actually I should describe it as "very useful") because, like many, I have a desktop in one room, at least one laptop "open" somewhere around the house. I'm not always planted in front the TV, or the remote. Having the ability to turn off the TV after we've left the room, or, are closer to a PC/laptop than a remote is remarkably convenient. I have this feature for my AV receiver and find it very useful.

You mean leave the room with no one watching the TV? You may be better of with a rf remote or something that works through a wall.

Also I was wondering, since the 151 already has ethernet support and can connect to a home network wouldn't the 141 networking just be a firmware upgrade? I mean the hardware is already there.

I did notice that many of the new displays have network access, but for around $200 you can easily hook up to something like Apple TV and get internet connectivity, plus synchronize with all your movies, music and pictures on your PC and it has a hard drive for around $200.

I've been using the 151 Home Media Gallery and while the feature is really cool and works fine, the UI is not polished at all.

Also I was wondering, since the 151 already has ethernet support and can connect to a home network wouldn't the 141 networking just be a firmware upgrade? I mean the hardware is already there.

Possible, but not necessarily likely. The hardware used to support the 151s DLNA functionality is not necessarily the same hardware used in the 141 to support remote control via HTTP (webserver). One way to find out would be to open them up and compare the logic boards.

I did notice that many of the new displays have network access, but for around $200 you can easily hook up to something like Apple TV and get internet connectivity, plus synchronize with all your movies, music and pictures on your PC and it has a hard drive for around $200.

True enough. What you cannot add easily is remote control via HTTP (or other network protocol). If your display has a RS232 port, you could use an HTTP with software to control it via serial protocol, and then design bridge software to talk to that from a web interface. Or, another solution is to use an IR output (like the old IR-Blaster) to do the same thing. Such bridge software might already exist even, I am not sure. It would require you to configure a lot however, since it would need to build an interface around the capabilities you supply it.

Basically, when we speak about adding media gallery or media display functionality via a third party device, you are often getting the advantage of better functionality. Like in the case of an apple TV, you get support for more formats, not to mention the apple store, etc. But, when speaking about controling the device itself from an a second external device, you might be giving up functionality. Though that will depend on the factors I touched on above.

I've been using the 151 Home Media Gallery and while the feature is really cool and works fine, the UI is not polished at all.

Yeah, its typical. Hey not that the 141's web control interface is exactly high tech either, but then they wanted something that you can control from most any browser.

Actually it looks like more settings are available by getting into the 141 via the network then remote...

stay tuned.

It sort of looked like it from the manual. I noticed "Event Notification" emails from the t.v. I'm looking at page 68 of the manual - maybe include that in your 1st post? Also the various "cautions" listed on page 63?

In general, network access to the virtual remote seems more user-friendly, in that it's laid out flatter, enhancing your ability to see more options vs. the remote. A decent bump up in convenience.

I'm really looking forward to what else you and your network buddy find out.

Do you need to hard wire the 141 to a network? No wireless options?

BTW, thanks for answering all our questions.

ill try and take some today...fact is taking a pictue with a camera then posting it online so people can see it on an improperly set LCD doesnt really tell you much.

True on a scientific level...different on a wow! level. I refuse to purchase any more PS3 games or blu rays until I get a HDTV - almost pointless after seeing some of these: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=920011

Hey y'all. After being delayed in my Kuro project by some additional electronics work and speaker choices, I have now changed my 151 order to a 141. (continuing in my quest to make the longest decision process of all time) The other day, the retailer I'm buying from expressed concern that I might miss the tuner and its ability to get over-the-air uncompressed signals. I hadn't even considered that since I live in midtown Manhattan on a 2nd floor and am surrounded by buildings. The retailer seemed to think I would be able to get some channels. Now, I find myself worrying too. There's been a lot of grumbling about bad cable signals here. Am I shooting myself in the foot by getting a set without this option? As far as I can tell, that's the only real advantage of the 151 for me. (I don't need the speakers at all.) Any thoughts?

Hey y'all. After being delayed in my Kuro project by some additional electronics work and speaker choices, I have now changed my 151 order to a 141. (continuing in my quest to make the longest decision process of all time) The other day, the retailer I'm buying from expressed concern that I might miss the tuner and its ability to get over-the-air uncompressed signals. I hadn't even considered that since I live in midtown Manhattan on a 2nd floor and am surrounded by buildings. The retailer seemed to think I would be able to get some channels. Now, I find myself worrying too. There's been a lot of grumbling about bad cable signals here. Am I shooting myself in the foot by getting a set without this option? As far as I can tell, that's the only real advantage of the 151 for me. (I don't need the speakers at all.) Any thoughts?

A Clear QAM tuner will allow you to get the local HD stations from your cable/FIOS system. That is a good idea if you may someday sell it or move the panel to another room where you just want a TV.


- Rich

Thanks. I definitely won't be moving it. (There's only one other room and I don't want any TV in my bedroom - let alone a 60" one). I suppose I could sell it someday, though I tend to use things until they break. I'm more concerned with whether the 151 would have a better TV picture than the 141 because of the tuner.

It has been nine (9!) years since I've watched an OTA signal on any tv I own. I can't imagine many people here don't have some sort of alternative so that a tuner would be an issue.

But don't many here assert that OTA signals are far superior to what a cable company can provide? I use Time Warner/SA box.

Thanks. I definitely won't be moving it. (There's only one other room and I don't want any TV in my bedroom - let alone a 60" one). I suppose I could sell it someday, though I tend to use things until they break. I'm more concerned with whether the 151 would have a better TV picture than the 141 because of the tuner.

Isn't there any way you can predetermine the quality of OTA signals to your apartment before buying the plasma?

But don't many here assert that OTA signals are far superior to what a cable company can provide? I use Time Warner/SA box.

Perhaps, another choice is to get a TiVoHD which has commercial avoidance ;) and also has a native option to let your display do all of the conversion.

I only watch football live :)

- Rich

Isn't there any way you can predetermine the quality of OTA signals to your apartment before buying the plasma?

Any ideas how? For all I know, it could be worse quality that the TW tuner. A friend of mine has an antenna and says the cable box does a much better job of bringing in the signal. And he's on the 29th floor!

Perhaps, another choice is to get a TiVoHD which has commercial avoidance ;) and also has a native option to let your display do all of the conversion.

I only watch football live :)

- Rich

Hmm. So that would be like getting OTA quality? That's good. So later, if I wanted better quality, I could add Tivo.

I think I'm really just looking for a reason to not worry about getting the 141. I think that does the trick.

Any ideas how? For all I know, it could be worse quality that the TW tuner. A friend of mine has an antenna and says the cable box does a much better job of bringing in the signal. And he's on the 29th floor!



Hmm. So that would be like getting OTA quality? That's good. So later, if I wanted better quality, I could add Tivo.

I think I'm really just looking for a reason to not worry about getting the 141. I think that does the trick.Vashti if you do not get that 141, I'm putting you in time-out :D

Vashti if you do not get that 141, I'm putting you in time-out :D

LOL! Okay, okay. I'm getting it. I assume you'll be swinging by to see it?

LOL! Okay, okay. I'm getting it. I assume you'll be swinging by to see it?I might just do that ;)

I might just do that ;)
D-Nice

Do you think the 141FD has less chances of buzz than 151FD

I have seen some people on the forum talk about less buzz on the newer manufactured units.....Any opinion on that?

LOL! Okay, okay. I'm getting it. I assume you'll be swinging by to see it?

Vashti, you still don't have a TV?! I thought you bought the 151 at the shootout in July?!

But don't many here assert that OTA signals are far superior to what a cable company can provide? I use Time Warner/SA box.

Vashti, the ota signals are also compressed, just usually less then the sat or cable signals. and they can suffer too especially if the local stations are multicasting channels using less bandwith.

go ahead and keep it simple and get the Pro141. your ready for it and so are wee to see you get it and start enjoying it.

A Tivo HD would be nice with cablecards, even if you didn't use the ota tuner.

Thanks. I definitely won't be moving it. (There's only one other room and I don't want any TV in my bedroom - let alone a 60" one). I suppose I could sell it someday, though I tend to use things until they break. I'm more concerned with whether the 151 would have a better TV picture than the 141 because of the tuner.

Personally I don't think it is much to stress about. Are you pulling in OTA signals right now with your current TV? If not, then I doubt you will really consider it much with a new TV either. Your cable feed will likely present you with very good quality HD locals. Not to mention if you are going to be DVR-ing things as many people typically do, you won't be able to use the built in tuner for that anyway. OTA is nice in theory because its free and goes through one less middle man where things can get tainted. But in practice its just not something you are likely to use very often IMHO.

And BTW, you can always get a seperate external ATSC tuner for the 141 also, if you really miss it.

Personally I don't think it is much to stress about. Are you pulling in OTA signals right now with your current TV? If not, then I doubt you will really consider it much with a new TV either. Your cable feed will likely present you with very good quality HD locals. Not to mention if you are going to be DVR-ing things as many people typically do, you won't be able to use the built in tuner for that anyway. OTA is nice in theory because its free and goes through one less middle man where things can get tainted. But in practice its just not something you are likely to use very often IMHO.

And BTW, you can always get a separate external ATSC tuner for the 141 also, if you really miss it.

Cable companies must carry the locals without additional compression in clear QAM so that is not the issue.

The potential advantage of the built-in tuner is to avoid additional and inferior scaling. I would like to see cable/FIOS set-top-boxes that have a native rate option. That said, if they support 1080i and 480i, you have most of them anyway.

- Rich

It is a "cool" (actually I should describe it as "very useful") because, like many, I have a desktop in one room, at least one laptop "open" somewhere around the house. I'm not always planted in front the TV, or the remote. Having the ability to turn off the TV after we've left the room, or, are closer to a PC/laptop than a remote is remarkably convenient. I have this feature for my AV receiver and find it very useful.

OK. I don't see this as being useful in my case, but if it works for some that's great. :)

I thought of another cool thing to do with this feature. Think of how much fun you could have messing with the wife from work.

Now THAT is the best reason I've heard thus far for the 141. Oh I could imagine some fun stuff with that!!! :D

Cable companies must carry the locals without additional compression in clear QAM so that is not the issue.

Sure, but I guess the point is that its adding one more point of failure to the system. Not compression, no, but for example if your cable goes out then you lose all TV.

The potential advantage of the built-in tuner is to avoid additional and inferior scaling. I would like to see cable/FIOS set-top-boxes that have a native rate option. That said, if they support 1080i and 480i, you have most of them anyway.

True. I think TiVo HD supports this but not sure if any others do.

Hey y'all. After being delayed in my Kuro project by some additional electronics work and speaker choices, I have now changed my 151 order to a 141. (continuing in my quest to make the longest decision process of all time) The other day, the retailer I'm buying from expressed concern that I might miss the tuner and its ability to get over-the-air uncompressed signals. I hadn't even considered that since I live in midtown Manhattan on a 2nd floor and am surrounded by buildings. The retailer seemed to think I would be able to get some channels. Now, I find myself worrying too. There's been a lot of grumbling about bad cable signals here. Am I shooting myself in the foot by getting a set without this option? As far as I can tell, that's the only real advantage of the 151 for me. (I don't need the speakers at all.) Any thoughts?

Vashti, that's actually one of the biggest issues I have with the 141 that some may not have thought about or even care about for that matter. I get great reception via my FIOS STB for all channels, including the broadcast channels that are also OTA signals. So what's the issue?

Well, with the FIOS STB there is no 'pass-through' mode, meaning all my output is 1080i regardless of whether the signal is 1080i or 720p. So, what's the issue she says? The problem is my FIOS STB does not upconvert 720p channels as well as the Pro 150 does (and I suspect that no STB does). Thus, when I pull 720p channels off of my roof antenna and let the Pioneer do the converting, the picture is significantly sharper and better than that same channel coming through the FIOS box.

Now if your box has a native pass-through, you may not have the same issue. For me it was not relevant that the FIOS box doesn't have this feature since I'd set any box to a constant 1080i output anyway. Why she asks? Because I detest the resynching that happens when you have any STB set to native and you channel hop from one 720p to one 1080i channel and back again. The flashes, blinking and time lag drive me nuts. So I decided years ago during my D* days, that I'd leave the box set at a constant 1080i output. That makes for far quicker channel surfing and somehow it just seems easier on the display. It's almost painful to watch the gyrations of the resynching process.

The ability of a built-in ATSC tuner coupled with the great upconversion of the Pioneer to take a 720p channel and make it look significantly better than the same signal coming from the STB at 1080i...even a signal as pristine as comes from FIOS, is a nice feature.

So you'd have to find out if your OTA reception is such that this becomes a viable issue for you.

But don't many here assert that OTA signals are far superior to what a cable company can provide? I use Time Warner/SA box.

An OTA signal is as good as it gets for that signal. The only thing that could happen to it from there is deterioration (assuming you get a good OTA signal to begin with). Once most cable operators get the signal, they begin the compression process. How much this impacts PQ depends on your cable provider. FIOS doesn't compress at all, but the issues I mentioned above remain.

I don't agree that cable/sat operators don't compress the clear QAM signals. I had D* and Cablevision for enough years to have compared my OTA signals with their signals for the same channels and they were never as good. FIOS was the first to provide me with an indistinguishable signal for 1080i, but not for 720p due to the upconversion issue.

But hey, as others have said, you can always get an ATSC tuner for your OTA channels.

Hmm. So that would be like getting OTA quality? That's good. So later, if I wanted better quality, I could add Tivo.



I hate to be a pest on this point, but I've had experience with precisely this issue. The Tivo with a pass-through option is better than using your cable box set to 1080i, but............

The buts include a) the synching issue I mentioned above and b) the possible compression of the signal by the service provider.

The Tivo will do nothing to alleviate the compression issue but will help in the typically poor STB upconversion issue when the Tivo is set to 'native'.

LOL! Okay, okay. I'm getting it. I assume you'll be swinging by to see it?

Wanna race?

Vashti, you still don't have a TV?! I thought you bought the 151 at the shootout in July?!

LOL. Things are not always as they appear. I ordered the 151, but Robert and I already had an arrangement that I could change to the 141 if it came in before I was ready for delivery. (I got delayed by some electrical worker and choosing on-wall speakers). Robert was so excited about the 141 and kept telling me how much I'd love it - and I jumped ship. I changed my order to the 141. Right before leaving for CEDIA, Robert was telling me how much he thought I might enjoy the OTA signal. He's probably right again - but at some point, you just gotta choose. My 141 is coming this week. If I don't get a TV soon, I'm expecting a white van to come for me (probably driven by Ken Ross and D-Nice)

Wanna race?

YES!!!!!

Okay, after reading the rest of these posts, I'm pretty sure I'm certifiable at this point. I'm reading along, clear that I should just get the 141 already and then Ken pops up with a bunch of really good points about the value of the tuner.

But I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink I'm sticking. I have no roof-top antenna, nor could I. For me, it would be a small in-room antenna mounted behind the TV. It's just hard for me to believe that a lot is possible for me on a second floor in the middle of Manhattan. I guess I'll never know since there's no way to test this without buying some equipment. And the truth is either of these TVs are going to be a giiiiiaaaaant leap forward from my 27" Mitsubishi CRT with cable box.

Game on, sbwtwo!

Vashti, you can always buy a separate HD tuner and it may even be superior to the tuner built into the Kuro TVs. Digital ATSC tuner technology is always improving which allows for better reception of more difficult broadcast signals. I use a MyHD 120 tuner in my PC (older tuner tech by now) that allows me to record HD content to my computer disk drives for archiving or simply time-shifting. OTA ATSC signals are typically going to be your best quality HD short of HD discs (Blu-Ray or HD-DVD). This of course is subject to how your local stations use their signal allocations but around here the PBS stations are especially gorgeous.

P.S. Don't worry about taking your time getting the right display. I've been waiting quite a bit longer than you but as they say, good things come to those who wait. :)

Hi Vashti, a lot has been written on tuner vs. no tuner. Pros & cons on both sides, but really a moot point if you can't use OTA in the first place due to all the buildings & structures surrounding you. If that's the case, then you're in the same boat as most of us in dealing w/the cable guys until FIOS arrives. Right now, I've got no complaints w/Brighthouse (formerly Time Warner) as I'm watching the Colts/Bears game. 100% pristine video. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

If you are like me, I never sell my TV's so I could give a rats ass about re-sell. The 141 seems to be a good fit for you IMHO. No one knows yet how the additional calibration controls will add to the PQ of this display vs its sister 151, but according to Pioneer this feature is a plus. Also, no one has mentioned this, but as the 141 has all these networking capabilities, wouldn't this allow for easy access to video streaming? Just imagine where video will be in the next 3-4 years, and I think video streaming will play a big part in HT in the very near future.

xortam, I totally agree. Also, I believe the 141 should the center of the HT system whereby all future upgrades revolve around adding external components when needed and/or desired.

Got it. I agree. And that's my final answer.




really

cajieboy, I've used my displays that way since '88. I actually consider the preamp or pre-pro to be the center of a HT system. I also use the pre-pro to distribute A/V inside and outside the home (again since '88).

I went to Cedia last weekend thinking that the 151FD was the right set for me. After seeing the 141FD for the first time, I was mesmerized how dramatically flush the 141 was mounted compared to the 151.

I was very drawn to how thin the 141 was in compared to the 151, especially with the Pioneer wall mounts. Looking how Pioneer mounted the two units at Cedia, it seems the 151 needs additional air space between the wall and the panel for cooling that the 141 does not. This further emphasizes the size difference when the two units are mounted. I’m getting there are aftermarket mounts for the 151 that eliminate the air gap. Perhaps Pioneer feels they don’t provide adequate cooling, however.

Other than the lack of USB connection for photos which is a big disappointment, I am wondering how well the lack of the tuner can be overcome in the overall presentation of TV signals.

Does the processing in the 151 clean up a TV signal better than what the 141’s modes are capable of? Overall, how much better will the 151 display TV signals from a Dish Network box?

If this has been covered before, please point me to in the right direction. I have searched many of the Pioneer posts to no avail.

YES!!!!!

Okay, after reading the rest of these posts, I'm pretty sure I'm certifiable at this point. I'm reading along, clear that I should just get the 141 already and then Ken pops up with a bunch of really good points about the value of the tuner.

But I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink I'm sticking. I have no roof-top antenna, nor could I. For me, it would be a small in-room antenna mounted behind the TV. It's just hard for me to believe that a lot is possible for me on a second floor in the middle of Manhattan. I guess I'll never know since there's no way to test this without buying some equipment. And the truth is either of these TVs are going to be a giiiiiaaaaant leap forward from my 27" Mitsubishi CRT with cable box.

Game on, sbwtwo!

Vashti, with no OTA signal, you can negate all the points I made about the onboard tuner. For your requirements go with the 141! I didn't mean to drive you nuts...I can carry that burden for both of us! ;)

Also, no one has mentioned this, but as the 141 has all these networking capabilities, wouldn't this allow for easy access to video streaming? Just imagine where video will be in the next 3-4 years, and I think video streaming will play a big part in HT in the very near future.

I may be wrong, but I don't think you can use video streaming for this kind of networking capability as exists in the 141.

Other than the lack of USB connection for photos which is a big disappointment, I am wondering how well the lack of the tuner can be overcome in the overall presentation of TV signals.

Does the processing in the 151 clean up a TV signal better than what the 141’s modes are capable of? Overall, how much better will the 151 display TV signals from a Dish Network box?

If this has been covered before, please point me to in the right direction. I have searched many of the Pioneer posts to no avail.

You missed the discussion above. It's not a question of 'cleaning up the signal', but rather how the 151 takes a 720p signal and upconverts it as compared to a cable/sat STB doing the same thing. The Pioneer is superior at that. The only way to take advantage of that is to either use the 151's onboard tuner to tune to these 720p channels or go with an outboard ATSC tuner. This all assumes you have access to OTA signals.

YES!!!!!

Okay, after reading the rest of these posts, I'm pretty sure I'm certifiable at this point. I'm reading along, clear that I should just get the 141 already and then Ken pops up with a bunch of really good points about the value of the tuner.

But I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink I'm sticking. I have no roof-top antenna, nor could I. For me, it would be a small in-room antenna mounted behind the TV. It's just hard for me to believe that a lot is possible for me on a second floor in the middle of Manhattan. I guess I'll never know since there's no way to test this without buying some equipment. And the truth is either of these TVs are going to be a giiiiiaaaaant leap forward from my 27" Mitsubishi CRT with cable box.

Game on, sbwtwo!

don't forget to post some pictures!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1059491

You missed the discussion above. It's not a question of 'cleaning up the signal', but rather how the 151 takes a 720p signal and upconverts it as compared to a cable/sat STB doing the same thing. The Pioneer is superior at that. The only way to take advantage of that is to either use the 151's onboard tuner to tune to these 720p channels or go with an outboard ATSC tuner. This all assumes you have access to OTA signals.

Any QAM tuner can receive the local stations without an antenna. They are required to retransmit them unmolested.

- Rich

Any QAM tuner can receive the local stations without an antenna. They are required to retransmit them unmolested.

- Rich


But the issue of poor scaling still exists.

Any QAM tuner can receive the local stations without an antenna. They are required to retransmit them unmolested.

- Rich

But the issue of poor scaling still exists.

Depends.
If you have a QAM tuner in you display, then there is no difference between OTA and the local version carried by your cable/FIOS connection. The scaling should occur once in the display.

I have Comcast cable connected to a TiVoHD with no card and a Panasonic 77U that have no problem tuning in the locals via cable with no box.
It is the box that can give you trouble. TiVO HD/S3's have native mode to avoid molestation. However, you do get the delays when changing channels with different resolutions.

- Rich

Also, no one has mentioned this, but as the 141 has all these networking capabilities, wouldn't this allow for easy access to video streaming? Just imagine where video will be in the next 3-4 years, and I think video streaming will play a big part in HT in the very near future.

Actually the 151 has the leg up on the 141 in this area. The 141 network port only allows the display to act as a server and receive remote commands to control the display. The 151 network port allows you to stream video, music and pictures to the display from a DLNA compliant device. Of course, its possible (though probably unlikely) that the hardware exits in one or both displays to do both things, but if so its not documented so I would not count on it.

You missed the discussion above. It's not a question of 'cleaning up the signal', but rather how the 151 takes a 720p signal and upconverts it as compared to a cable/sat STB doing the same thing. The Pioneer is superior at that. The only way to take advantage of that is to either use the 151's onboard tuner to tune to these 720p channels or go with an outboard ATSC tuner. This all assumes you have access to OTA signals.

I wonder if there would be any upconverting of the signal with Dish Network's Turbo HD service.

It is the box that can give you trouble. TiVO HD/S3's have native mode to avoid molestation. However, you do get the delays when changing channels with different resolutions.

- Rich

Yes it is the box that is more problematic than the compression that may or may not occur. As you say, setting the box to 'native' (if you can) is a way around the invariably inferior upscaling of the box, but then the issues with resolution changes begin. No thanks on the latter.

Actually the 151 has the leg up on the 141 in this area. The 141 network port only allows the display to act as a server and receive remote commands to control the display. The 151 network port allows you to stream video, music and pictures to the display from a DLNA compliant device. Of course, its possible (though probably unlikely) that the hardware exits in one or both displays to do both things, but if so its not documented so I would not count on it.

That is true. I had mentioned that in the loss of the "Home Media Network" on the 141 which the 151 has.

Got it. I agree. And that's my final answer.




really

Well I am now in the same boat as you were in. And I know why you are going with the 141, and that is because you will be wall mounting your 141. And yes from what you have told me why you must wall mount I think your choice is the right one. However I table mount because of back lighting as you may remember and I have to get a new 141/151 tonight because my son-in-law wants my 150 asap. That being said what Ken is saying makes very good sense for my use. So I guess when I get one of these panels tonight It will all come down to price. Robert will not sell me one of these Kuros because of were I live (Chicago) so my locale bb/m is only 8 miles from my house so if I get a bad 141/151 I will have np getting it replaced. However my sil will have to wait a little longer as he already knows until I age the panel. :confused:

Price should be similar on both for you so to everyone it just depends on the needs.

Yes it is the box that is more problematic than the compression that may or may not occur. As you say, setting the box to 'native' (if you can) is a way around the invariably inferior upscaling of the box, but then the issues with resolution changes begin. No thanks on the latter.

If the box is putting out the source resolution then it solves most of the problems with scaling. I use a Radiance XD with my TiVo HD in native mode and it works great. There is a delay if you change from one resolution to another but that does not bother me. I do not channel surf, I guide surf ;)

- Rich

This thread is sooooooo long it's hard for me to take in all the differences between the two models. I have a pioneer 141 waiting at best buy for me to pick up but I'm waiting for whalen to mail me a custom sized mounting frame because the one I have now is to short in width and it doesn't have a base so I dont wanna take it home yet I wanna leave my option to exchange it for the 151 open. I want to know the all differences between the pro 141 pro 151 which features are stripped from 141 that are on the 151 and what the 141 has over the 151. Preferably within one post so that i can take them all in.

And is it just me? this may sound a bit trivial but in most cases the higher model number is considered the better model, but the 141 is called the "signature series" what's up with that?

The OP should probably edit the first post of this thread to encapsulate all the differences that have been discovered between these two models. lotusvibe, don't get hung up on model numbering as that is up to the marketing departments which may misread the perception of their customers. Pioneer probably intended to say "the 141 has less functionality than the 151" but in actuality they have different feature sets to address different markets.

If the box is putting out the source resolution then it solves most of the problems with scaling. I use a Radiance XD with my TiVo HD in native mode and it works great. There is a delay if you change from one resolution to another but that does not bother me. I do not channel surf, I guide surf ;)

- Rich

Rich, channel surfing or guide surfing, the net result of going from an ESPN, ABC, National Geographic etc. to an NBC, HBO, Showtime etc. is the same...resynching. It's slow and bugs the hell out of me. I guess you have more patience than me. :) For me it's just painful to watch the display go through the gyrations of synching.

This thread is sooooooo long it's hard for me to take in all the differences between the two models. I have a pioneer 141 waiting at best buy for me to pick up but I'm waiting for whalen to mail me a custom sized mounting frame because the one I have now is to short in width and it doesn't have a base so I dont wanna take it home yet I wanna leave my option to exchange it for the 151 open. I want to know the all differences between the pro 141 pro 151 which features are stripped from 141 that are on the 151 and what the 141 has over the 151. Preferably within one post so that i can take them all in.

And is it just me? this may sound a bit trivial but in most cases the higher model number is considered the better model, but the 141 is called the "signature series" what's up with that?

141 Omits the following 151 features: ATSC tuner, amplifier, speakers, stand, Home Media Gallery and USB port.

141 Gains: Slimmer profile, IP network protocol, supposed hand picked parts, your name engraved in the Pioneer "Book of Life" :)

It's give & take. Once you assess your needs, it's probably not as difficult a decision as you think.

Wanna race?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Yep! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:

Vashti, YOU are a winner!!!!

I concede defeat, gladly.

I will be sending you your box of Rice-a-roni, the San Francisco treat that Carol Merril is pointing to in short order. (You probably aren't old enough to get this bad joke.)

Vashti, YOU are a winner!!!!

I concede defeat, gladly.

I will be sending you your box of Rice-a-roni, the San Francisco treat that Carol Merril is pointing to in short order. (You probably aren't old enough to get this bad joke.)

Hey, I remember both Rice-a-roni and Carol Merrill. Sadly, I am now humming their theme song. I look forward to seeing where your quest lands.

141 Omits the following 151 features: ATSC tuner, amplifier, speakers, stand, Home Media Gallery and USB port.

141 Gains: Slimmer profile, IP network protocol, supposed hand picked parts, your name engraved in the Pioneer "Book of Life" :)

It's give & take. Once you assess your needs, it's probably not as difficult a decision as you think.

Actually Ken, the Home Media Gallery is now done through the LAN connection to your computer, you no longer need the USB for thumb drives etc. :)

if pioneer was really smart they would offer the elite owners a firmware upgrade so that their elites would have the same functions as the signatures (for a price of course)

if pioneer was really smart they would offer the elite owners a firmware upgrade so that their elites would have the same functions as the signatures (for a price of course)

That would defeat the point of the 141 being in the custom installation category, plus if you were to put the firmware from the 141 onto a 151 the tuner, amp, and usb media would all loose functionality as the 141 doesn't have any of those things.

One thing that sucks is video/pics only, since there are no speakers/amp built into the monitor, streaming video to it with out sound bites the big one.

One thing that sucks is video/pics only, since there are no speakers/amp built into the monitor, streaming video to it with out sound bites the big one.

The 141 does not support streamed media anyway though.

The menu system is fantastic!!! Love the new remote too... much better than my old 150FD... :)

Actually Ken, the Home Media Gallery is now done through the LAN connection to your computer, you no longer need the USB for thumb drives etc. :)

I have the Home Media Gallery through the LAN on my 151. I wasn't aware this software is even there on the 141.

Since I have pretty decent speakers on my 151 now, the home media gallery just gives me another option for listening to music or watching video from my PC. Although, the UI needs some work. But streaming video works like a charm (when needed)

There are wayyyyy toooo many options. I can stream via my Apple TV, via HTPC Media Players or via Pio Media Gallery. Actually, the usb is the most functional since I can take my SD card and plug it in directly and watch pictures or movie. That is super cool even for my wife :)

The 141 does not support streamed media anyway though.

You sure, have to double check my manual, I remember seeing a setting for something like that, may have missunderstood what it meant.

Just checked; you're absolutely right, its the other way around, the 141 doesn't, the 151 does, got the manuals mixed up.

Actually Ken, the Home Media Gallery is now done through the LAN connection to your computer, you no longer need the USB for thumb drives etc. :)

I'd assume that would speed up the Home Media Gallery.

I thought I would mention a difference...

Several of the ISFccc Controls for the Monitors have expanded ranges - 2X range in some cases. i.e. 0~120 vs 0~60

http://i35.tinypic.com/2nod9s.jpg

ControlCAL's Display Profile for the 9G Monitors will be released soon (waiting for the "go ahead"). :D

.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Yep! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:

:eek:

You traitor to the ambivalent brigade. I never thought this day would come. You're one of them now. :(




;)

:eek:

You traitor to the ambivalent brigade. I never thought this day would come. You're one of them now. :(

;)

ROFL!

Yeah, I gotta admit I kind of miss the old on-the-fence status. Then I look at a HD-DVD and I'm all right again.

I can now Post the specifics and I believe you are seeing it for the first time here... :D

First Range is 141, 2nd is 151

BRIGHTNESS: 0~120 vs 0~60
COLOR: 0~120 vs 0~60

R-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
G-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
B-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
R-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60
G-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60
B-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60

** CMS and 9-Point Gamma - No Change.

ControlCAL's Display Profile for the Elite Monitors will be released very soon (will require ControlCAL v1.41 RC2 which is the holdup now). :D

turbe, I assume that a brightness of 120 on the model 141 is equivalent to the brightness of 60 on the model 151 and so on across the board. The resolution of the settings has been doubled for the 141 allowing for more accurate adjustment. Is this correct?

if pioneer was really smart they would offer the elite owners a firmware upgrade so that their elites would have the same functions as the signatures (for a price of course)

I fully concur...but what should the price be for the firmware upgrade? These darn things are very costly already!... :(

-THTS

turbe, I assume that a brightness of 120 on the model 141 is equivalent to the brightness of 60 on the model 151 and so on across the board. The resolution of the settings has been doubled for the 141 allowing for more accurate adjustment. Is this correct?

In regards to the high end, we'll just have to wait for the first full proper calibration report. You should be able to fine tune those Controls more with the expanded range.

Many had hoped for an expanded range for the 9-Point Gamma Controls as well....

We'll just have to wait for the first full proper calibration report.

well I just completed my break in period...sadly Michael TLV isnt in town until Nov to calibrate mine.

well I just completed my break in period...sadly Michael TLV isnt in town until Nov to calibrate mine.

Hey, I had him calibrate my previous 150FD before I moved from the condo. Really interesting fellow. Does he have a schedule posted?

Hey, I had him calibrate my previous 150FD before I moved from the condo. Really interesting fellow. Does he have a schedule posted?

yes ...he did my fujitsu a couple of years back. and he still travels through town and goes on tour.

Can someone please help me - I am in the process of making a decision to buy either the Pioneer Elite 141 or the 151 Elite. With an authorized dealer, I placed a down payment on the Pioneer Elite 141 (price was $5999). I still have time to change the order to a 151 PRO. I was told the 141 is designed for business use - conference rooms, no tuner, etc. I want the better quality with the better features. I understand the 141 offers web browsing and is thinner. I am buying surround sound speakers (possibly the Helicon 800 Dali or Martin Logans). The receiver I was looking at is either the Denon AVR4308 or the Pioneer Elite SC-07. I do have Tivo so I was told I really do not need the 151. I just want the best quality - I like the idea of thin, however I also want to be able to customize my TV without having a technician come into my home. Also what is this about a buzz - is there buzz with the 151 Pioneer Elite?

Can someone please help me - I am in the process of making a decision to buy either the Pioneer Elite 141 or the 151 Elite. With an authorized dealer, I placed a down payment on the Pioneer Elite 141 (price was $5999). I still have time to change the order to a 151 PRO. I was told the 141 is designed for business use - conference rooms, no tuner, etc. I want the better quality with the better features. I understand the 141 offers web browsing and is thinner. I am buying surround sound speakers (possibly the Helicon 800 Dali or Martin Logans). The receiver I was looking at is either the Denon AVR4308 or the Pioneer Elite SC-07. I do have Tivo so I was told I really do not need the 151. I just want the best quality - I like the idea of thin, however I also want to be able to customize my TV without having a technician come into my home. Also what is this about a buzz - is there buzz with the 151 Pioneer Elite?


I was in the same boat, until someone asked me why would I buy a panel with speakers, a tuner and a base if I had no use for it. So I went with a signature over the regular elite. Thinner design and possibly better components is the gain with the signature.

BTW I own a Denon 4308 and I would buy it again.

Can someone please help me - I am in the process of making a decision to buy either the Pioneer Elite 141 or the 151 Elite. With an authorized dealer, I placed a down payment on the Pioneer Elite 141 (price was $5999). I still have time to change the order to a 151 PRO. I was told the 141 is designed for business use - conference rooms, no tuner, etc. I want the better quality with the better features. I understand the 141 offers web browsing and is thinner. I am buying surround sound speakers (possibly the Helicon 800 Dali or Martin Logans). The receiver I was looking at is either the Denon AVR4308 or the Pioneer Elite SC-07. I do have Tivo so I was told I really do not need the 151. I just want the best quality - I like the idea of thin, however I also want to be able to customize my TV without having a technician come into my home. Also what is this about a buzz - is there buzz with the 151 Pioneer Elite?

Congrats,

You said "customize my TV without having a technician come into my home"

If you do your own ISF calibrations and what the best then go with the 141.

If you just use your eye to tweak then I would recommended staying away from the 141 and go with a 151.
The 141 is a professional monitor and is cutting edge, its in a class by its self.

I don't know if anybody already mentioned this but I was wondering if the 151FD can process NTSC, PAL, and SECAM like the 141FD.

As quote from pioneer themselves for the 141FD:
"World wide signal support: NTSC, PAL & SECAM"

I don't know if anybody already mentioned this but I was wondering if the 151FD can process NTSC, PAL, and SECAM like the 141FD.
Yes they can

Thanks D-Nice. So if ever I bring 151FD from Canada to EU I won't have any problems with signal being compatible?

Really I don't know why you'd go for the 141FD, given it's the same price as the 151FD.

There are several points that I won't mention that the 141FD is missing stuff, so what makes it worth the same price as the 151FD?

So will some one please tell me - it's crunch time - and I need to make a decision - should I buy the Pioneer Elite 141 or the 151? I have the receiver SC-07 and I do have speakers (that I am about to replace) - but which is better?

My vote goes to the 141.. The thin profile is sexy and makes a difference when wall mounting.

My vote goes to the 141.. The thin profile is sexy and makes a difference when wall mounting.
This. And even if you don't wall mount it, the thin profile still looks, as Borat says, "very nice." :)

By the way, I have my 141 hooked up to my SC-07. ;)

Can't you use your receiver to do the streamed media? (ie. SC-07 pioneer elite)

Thanks D-Nice. So if ever I bring 151FD from Canada to EU I won't have any problems with signal being compatible?



That is correct.

So will some one please tell me - it's crunch time - and I need to make a decision - should I buy the Pioneer Elite 141 or the 151? I have the receiver SC-07 and I do have speakers (that I am about to replace) - but which is better?

Here is what Ken Ross wrote and the decision he made, he is very respected, hope this helps he got the 151FD :)

Thanks Roman. It turned out to be a number of factors which included:

* Not being convinced the PQ of the 141 would be 'visibly' better, if better at all. After reading comments from Jeff Meier and hearing Kevin Miller's thoughts, I just didn't think we'd see a difference. There 'might' be a measurable difference, but I just didn't think this would translate to an eyes on difference of any significant degree. If you think about it, even if there were a difference, it would almost certainly be so slight that the only way you'd see it would be in a direct A/B. If you didn't happen to have both panels handy, you'd never know the difference.

* I bought an external ATSC tuner for 720p OTA channels (anticipating getting the 141) since I find my FIOS tuner doesn't do as good a job converting 720p signals to 1080i as well as a native 720p signal fed to the Kuro. In the end I found that the internal tuner of the Kuro simply worked better than the Samsung and was much more convenient.

* Down the road I'll either move this panel into my den or sell it. In the den I wouldn't use an outboard amp. I still beleive the 151 will have better resale value since more people would likely look for the features of a 151 vs a 141.

* I felt the extra adjustments of the 141 are certainly nice, but needlessly complex for my purposes. We've seen ISF guys that still don't understand how the features work. For me there is little value in having separate calibrations for 1080i, 1080p, 720p and 480i/p. In fact I never use 480i/p sources anymore. As good as the upconversion of the Kuro is, the BD players I own do a better job upconverting DVDs to 1080p than the Kuro. The Kuro's upconversion of 720p to 1080p is very good and much better than it's upconversion of 480i/p IMO.

* I've seen no difference in the output, in terms of a need for a separate calibration, from my BD player vs my FIOS STB. So even there I gain nothing in having seperate calibrations for 1080i and 1080p.

* I've read of almost all 141s buzzing, so even there the 'hand picked parts' don't seem to be impacting the real world in that regard. It appears that 141s and 151s buzz equally. As I said, my 151 does have a slight buzz, but nothing that really bothers me.

* I've seen no real difference in 141 owners expressing their enthusiasm for the picture as opposed to 151 owners. Both seem to be equally impressed.

My biggest concern was blotching, and I see none on my 151...a pleasant surprise.

Sooo, I couldn't be happier, this panel is just superb!

Thanks for the post Roman, that's just what I was looking for on this thread.

-Adam

Thanks for the post Roman, that's just what I was looking for on this thread.

-Adam

Anytime, I told Ken when I asked him to use his post that it will help people :)

Ken, didn't you have the 150? Did you sell the 150 or use it in another room?

Ken, didn't you have the 150? Did you sell the 150 or use it in another room?

He sold it :) He is a dealers dream client. (one of many on here)

Ok Roman, i am going to get a 60" also but i just can't change to much. I wish i could. I wonder back in this thread did Ken mention any differences he could see between the two, i'm guessing black levels and i think someone said the remote is better on 151.

Between 141 and 151 I dont think anyone has seen a difference :) If anyone want to chime in, I am all ears.

I'm still debating between the 151 and 141. One of the features missing on the monitor models is the color sensor. Is the color sensor feature desirable and if so in what instances?

I'm still debating between the 151 and 141. One of the features missing on the monitor models is the color sensor. Is the color sensor feature desirable and if so in what instances?

The sensor is useless. It's a "fun" feature. Nothing more, nothing less.

He sold it :) He is a dealers dream client. (one of many on here)

I've tried single-handedly to boost our economy, but it isn't enough. :D

Paris_tn, yes the biggest difference is black levels, but IMO there is also a significant difference in color rendition. If you've read my posts, you recall how I've always stayed away from CS2 mainly because of how CS2 handles many shades of blue (poorly IMO).

But with the 9g Kuros that has changed big time. The color using CS2 is simply superb! In fact there's much less of a difference between the two color spaces now than there used to be. After playing more with the 151, it seems to me that they have somewhat restrained CS1 and made CS2 more accurate. This has cut the deltas between the two.

The net effect of these two improvements is what I feel is a significant improvement in overall PQ. They've taken what was the best display and just made it better.

I've tried single-handedly to boost our economy, but it isn't enough. :D

You got the gas prices to come down :D

The sensor is useless. It's a "fun" feature. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do others feel the same way? Does anyone find any value in it?

Can someone list all the differences between these 2 models?

If the exact same price, what are the advantages/disadvantages to each?

All I know so far is...

141 - thinner/lighter, but no tuner/speakers



BIGGEST DIFFERENCE beside everything you mentioned: PIONEERs profit is $500 more!!! LOL

Do others feel the same way? Does anyone find any value in it?


I agree with Fanaticalism. I find it useless too because, if I am not mistaken, it only works with Optimum mode and I mostly use Pure.

You got the gas prices to come down :D

Yeah Roman, now I've got to get those stock prices to go up! ;)

I agree with Fanaticalism. I find it useless too because, if I am not mistaken, it only works with Optimum mode and I mostly use Pure.

From what I've read in these forums it also works with ISF-Auto also.

From what I've read in these forums it also works with ISF-Auto also.

Yes, you can calibrate isf Day or isf Night and copy those settings to isf Auto.

Yes, you can calibrate isf Day or isf Night and copy those settings to isf Auto.

Time for me to go scare the wife. She hasn't seen me use controlcal yet. Can't wait to see the look on her face when I start making the TV dance from the laptop. lol

Been quite a while since a post here. I read Ken Ross's remarks and they make sense. I was interested in a 141 then ordered a 151 - then just changed it back to a 141. I know I sound schizoid. Here are the facts.

141:
-I don't need the speakers but for my wife, and a bit for me, it would be nice to not turn on the 5.1 set-up to watch a show or two. Sales rep said all I need is a universal remote to solve that problem.
-Have cable set up so don't need tuner - but what about resale or if 5.1 goes down for a while. Also some say OTA HD is better than cable - no compression.
-1 inch thinner on wall - that's nice.

151:
-Wouldn't wall mount right away, but once I do the speakers will be in the way -- so won't use them.
-Stand, tuner, sound is all better for resale - "and easier to plug my Wii into the set".
-easier to plug things in the side for a quick slide show from a camera -- USB port

So, the well respected local store I'm dealing with has both - they push the 141 for all the reasons that have been mentioned before - hand picked components - best of the best panels etc. One thing I did notice in the showroom - they had a 111 and 101 side by side on the wall showing same HD discovery feed and the 101 was brighter. They checked and the obvious settings were the same. They said that the 101 is brighter because of the hand picked components. I have a very bright (daytime) room and that concerns me.

Is the Signature series any brighter than the standard Elites? or is it all hype. If they are or can be callibrated to be - that would be reason enough for me to get the 141. If the picture is exactly the same, the 151 makes more sense.

I got a bit overwhelmed on the 141 owners thread - Many there with calibrating experience - I won't tweek it much once it is calibrated. So the 151 has enough capablilty for me there.

So, can anyone confirm that the 141 has a better or brighter picture?

Thanks for helping me cure my schizophrenia.

...So, the well respected local store I'm dealing with has both - they push the 141 for all the reasons that have been mentioned before - hand picked components - best of the best panels etc. One thing I did notice in the showroom - they had a 111 and 101 side by side on the wall showing same HD discovery feed and the 101 was brighter. They checked and the obvious settings were the same. They said that the 101 is brighter because of the hand picked components. I have a very bright (daytime) room and that concerns me.

Is the Signature series any brighter than the standard Elites? or is it all hype. If they are or can be callibrated to be - that would be reason enough for me to get the 141. If the picture is exactly the same, the 151 makes more sense.

I got a bit overwhelmed on the 141 owners thread - Many there with calibrating experience - I won't tweek it much once it is calibrated. So the 151 has enough capablilty for me there. So, can anyone confirm that the 141 has a better or brighter picture? Thanks for helping me cure my schizophrenia.

should be the same. they use the same panel/glass, bonded color filter, processor. A little different software with added Sig features like the finer settings adjustments.

a good isf tech using Controlcal should have your Pro151 or 141 looking great and having it as bright as you need it with the different ISFccc option choices.

So, as far as pure picture quality, there should be no difference at all. What advantage does "hand picked components" give you then. Can anyone from the 141 Owners thread help sway me.

So, as far as pure picture quality, there should be no difference at all. .

Thats correct. If you want a thinner unit then its the way to go.

So are there any custom apps developed for the signature series IP control?

So, as far as pure picture quality, there should be no difference at all. What advantage does "hand picked components" give you then. Can anyone from the 141 Owners thread help sway me.

There isn't any evidence that the hand picked components and extra level of QA has had any impact on the quality of the Signature Monitors vs. their Elite TV counterparts.

There are several features and lack of features (tuner and audio components) that make the 141 appealing to many of us. This has been discussed throughout this thread and the "Signature Elite 141 Owners Thread " thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1059491). I've been more and more convinced that I made the right decision to step up to the 141 which is the flagship of the Pioneer 9G Kuro Plasma displays.

There isn't any evidence that the hand picked components and extra level of QA has had any impact on the quality of the Signature Monitors vs. their Elite TV counterparts.

True, but I was the Pioneer manufacturing plant manager, my algorithm for creating Elites and Signatures would be to run all panels for 50 hours or so, find the ones that have no problem pixels, etc., and use those for the Signatures. The other panels would go to the Elites.

And I wouldn't tell anyone about it.

... my algorithm for creating Elites and Signatures would be to run all panels for 50 hours or so ...

So you would advocate driving the cost up even more on a business that was struggling to stay afloat ... and eventually drowned? There is more than the hand-picked glass that goes into making the Signature Monitors. They apparently assemble the entire product before performing the break-in procedure so they've already committed that glass to a Signature monitor. I doubt it's financially advantageous to go through the additional expense of retrieving that glass from an out of spec Signature monitor in order to place it into an Elite TV.

So you would advocate driving the cost up even more on a business that was struggling to stay afloat ... and eventually drowned? There is more than the hand-picked glass that goes into making the Signature Monitors. They apparently assemble the entire product before performing the break-in procedure so they've already committed that glass to a Signature monitor. I doubt it's financially advantageous to go through the additional expense of retrieving that glass from an out of spec Signature monitor in order to place it into an Elite TV.

I'd test the panels outside the frames first.

They probably do test the bare panel itself and that's how they're sorted for delivery to the Elite TV or Signature Monitor production lines. The Signature 100 hour break-in process apparently occurs after final production.

To those wondering which would win if a Pro-151/111FD and a Pro-101/141FD were to duke it out in a Picture quality contest,

Here is a video that shows what Would happen:

9G Kuro Elite vs 9G Kuro Signature (http://s555.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid555.photobucket.com/albums/jj480/Kuroman09/ko.flv&fs=1&os=1&ap=1)

:D :D :D

To those wondering which would win if a Pro-151/111FD and a Pro-101/141FD were to duke it out in a Picture quality contest,

Here is a video that shows what Would happen:

9G Kuro Elite vs 9G Kuro Signature (http://s555.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid555.photobucket.com/albums/jj480/Kuroman09/ko.flv&fs=1&os=1&ap=1)

:D :D :D

:eek:

:D:D

are there any posted pre and post calibration reports for the 141. that will help me make up my mind.

I need some help. I have the opportunity to buy at my local best buy a pro151fd (display model) for 4000 + tax or a New 141FD for 4000 + tax.First of able which one is a better tv and second of all the 141FD is a monitor so I would have to buy the stand, receiver, speakers etc.

I need some help. I have the opportunity to buy at my local best buy a pro151fd (display model) for 4000 + tax or a New 141FD for 4000 + tax.First of able which one is a better tv and second of all the 141FD is a monitor so I would have to buy the stand, receiver, speakers etc.

buy the brand new set imo

I need some help. I have the opportunity to buy at my local best buy a pro151fd (display model) for 4000 + tax or a New 141FD for 4000 + tax.First of able which one is a better tv and second of all the 141FD is a monitor so I would have to buy the stand, receiver, speakers etc.

I'd advise going for the brand-spanking new 141. This monitor was labeled "Signature" series, and supposedly has a hand-picked plasma panel and an added warranty for 2 years rather than one. Also, extra calibration tweaks. The 141 is considered to be the very best 60" TV on the planet.
IMHO, you really don't need a tuner as most folks get their programming from either Cable, Sat Dish or Fiber Optics (ie. Fios & Uverse). As for speakers, some people have bought Elite 151 speakers off Ebay, but a TV like this deserves the Home Theater speaker treatment, rather than those itty-bitty TV speakers. BTW, the 141 was actually more expensive than the 151, so that sounds like a pretty decent deal at BB.

I'd advise going for the brand-spanking new 141. This monitor was labeled "Signature" series, and supposedly has a hand-picked plasma panel and an added warranty for 2 years rather than one.

No, the Signature sets are not the only Pioneer plasmas with a 2 year warranty. Both sets that he mentioned he could get are Elites, so they both come with a 2 year warranty.

As for speakers, some people have bought Elite 151 speakers off Ebay, but a TV like this deserves the Home Theater speaker treatment, rather than those itty-bitty TV speakers.

Kind of hard to use 151 speakers on a 141, when the 141 does not even have any audio amplifier built in to it, and that it also totally lacks any type of speaker or audio outputs.

No, the Signature sets are not the only Pioneer plasmas with a 2 year warranty. Both sets that he mentioned he could get are Elites, so they both come with a 2 year warranty.



Kind of hard to use 151 speakers on a 141, when the 141 does not even have any audio amplifier built in to it, and that it also totally lacks any type of speaker or audio outputs.

Thanks for the info. I got the 600M & 141 mixed up. Still no change, and would advise getting the brand-new 141. As I said, a TV of this caliber deserves the HT speaker treatment, whether it is a 151 or 141. Tiny TV speakers just don't cut the mustard.

On question on the 141 or 151. Can either of those, when bought in the US, work on 220V/50Hz power (like most computers now)? I may be spending some time in the future overseas, and want to make sure I can take my TV with me.

I recently purchased a Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH receiver and I am trying to determine if I need to purchase a tv (i.e. PRO-151FD) or if I can get away with purchasing a monitor (i.e. PRO-141FD) instead. I want to watch cable on the tv/monitor and currently have Charter cable (it doesn't require a cable box, but I have the option of getting a cablecard). As such, I am thinking I can plug the coax into the receiver and connect an HDMI cable from the receiver to the 141fd. Does anyone know if this configuration will enable me to get the cable signal on the 141fd? Or do I need to purchase a tv (i.e. 151fd) to be able to watch cable tv.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

I want to watch cable on the tv/monitor and currently have Charter cable (it doesn't require a cable box, but I have the option of getting a cablecard). As such, I am thinking I can plug the coax into the receiver and connect an HDMI cable from the receiver to the 141fd. Does anyone know if this configuration will enable me to get the cable signal on the 141fd? Or do I need to purchase a tv (i.e. 151fd) to be able to watch cable tv.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.


No, you can not plug the coax into the VSX-23TXH and use that as a cable tuner for a 141. Neither the VSX-23TXH or the 141 has any sort of internal tuner that can tune in any TV channels by itself no matter if it's off air/cable/satellite, the 141 must have some sort of external tuner in order to receive the TV channels. And neither the 141 or the 151 or the VSX-23TXH supports the use of a cable card either. So your options are, either get a 151 which does have it's own internal tuner, or get the 141 and use a cable company provided cable box.

Forgot to mention I also have a Tivo HD DVR with a charter cable card installed. Could I watch cable channels on the 141fd by running HDMI from the TIVO to the 141fd? I currently have the TIVO connected to a Samsung LN40A650 via HDMI and can view HD cable channels perfectly.

Yeah the Tivo will do it, with your cable card in it, it's a cable tuner. However if you also want the surround sound output via the HDMI of the Tivo, then you should run the HDMI output of the Tivo into a HDMI input of the VSX-23TXH first, and then take the HDMI output from the VSX-23TXH and feed that into the 141.

I need some help. I have the opportunity to buy at my local best buy a pro151fd (display model) for 4000 + tax or a New 141FD for 4000 + tax.First of able which one is a better tv and second of all the 141FD is a monitor so I would have to buy the stand, receiver, speakers etc.

i would definitely get the 141fd...that's a great price, imho...i just bought a 101fd & had quite a hard time finding that one...i can't imagine that 141fd being available for long and best buy will put them on hold (i found two or three 101fds that i couldn't buy for this reason)...if anything, buy the 141fd & decide later if you want to return it for the 151...act soon...

also, ask them to punch in the product code for the ts02 base unit...it should come up as free/included with purchase of the 141fd...if it doesn't tell them that it does for the 101fd & to check again...

i'd wish you good luck, but it looks like you have it already in spades...

I would get that 141 fast!

Guys, that post was from December.

ah yes...that's ancient in avs time...