Can someone list all the differences between these 2 models?

If the exact same price, what are the advantages/disadvantages to each?

All I know so far is...

141 - thinner/lighter, but no tuner/speakers

there's also supposedly a more meticulous quality control that happens for the signature series. Aside from that, thinner/lighter and no tuner/speakers AND no base.

AND no base.

Really? Wow, I'd missed that before... Hmmm

there's also supposedly a more meticulous quality control that happens for the signature series.Can this be verified or is it just another one of those urban myth's that are common in this Forum.Aside from that, thinner/lighter and no tuner/speakers AND no base.Unless the panel will be wall mounted, add a few hundred $ more to the cost.

yeah i always didnt mind that the elites had some more high level calibration options, but it's a bummer to me for them to add a third series that actually has some qualities i care about, like it being thinner and lighter (since i feel they all should be as thin and light as possible), or the option to not have a stand or speaker....which oddly in my opinion should make it cheaper, not more expensive.

It also has a virtual remote that you can use from a web browser

What is this virtual remote?

Also, I heard that this year for the 9G series, the 141 DOES HAVE A BASE.

AND no base.
Well, that's odd as I am getting a base with the one I ordered.

Well, that's odd as I am getting a base with the one I ordered.

Where did you order one? No-one I've spoken to even has a price on them yet?

They are priced at the exact same MSRP as the ELites.

Pioneer has not released pricing on the 141s yet. Do you have some inside info?

Pioneer has not released pricing on the 141s yet. Do you have some inside info?

....and a place we can order one?

Just talking to dealer friends here in Canada.

Just talking to dealer friends here in Canada.


A local dealer I had a conversation with said his elite rep told him to expect the 101/141 to be $300-$500 CHEAPER than the 111/151. If not its going to be a tough sell for Pioneer to charge the same price for the same panel with the same specs, same 2 year warranty (hand picked parts is for the sheep) but minus speakers,tuner,stand. It would be very easy decision to go with the 111/151 unless you could not deal with the extra 1 inch depth. It is also possible Pioneer only intends to sell these through custom installation channels, if thats the case then they won't sell many anyway.

A local dealer I had a conversation with said his elite rep told him to expect the 101/141 to be $300-$500 CHEAPER than the 111/151. If not its going to be a tough sell for Pioneer to charge the same price for the same panel with the same specs, same 2 year warranty (hand picked parts is for the sheep) but minus speakers,tuner,stand. It would be very easy decision to go with the 111/151 unless you could not deal with the extra 1 inch depth. It is also possible Pioneer only intends to sell these through custom installation channels, if thats the case then they won't sell many anyway.

Ah, but you forget to include the value of clever branding. There's a reason they decided to call them the "signature series" - they can charge more $ for that ;-)

Pioneer has not released pricing on the 141s yet. Do you have some inside info?

Yes I would like to know as well ;)

Roman ^^ Trust Vashti, she has the only true inside scoop on this one.

-Robert

and remember it is supposed to come with a certificate too :):) i wonder if it guarantees that the Sig panels are pixel perfect and buzz free since they are hand picked? lol :)~

A local dealer I had a conversation with said his elite rep told him to expect the 101/141 to be $300-$500 CHEAPER than the 111/151. If not its going to be a tough sell for Pioneer to charge the same price for the same panel with the same specs, same 2 year warranty (hand picked parts is for the sheep) but minus speakers,tuner,stand. It would be very easy decision to go with the 111/151 unless you could not deal with the extra 1 inch depth. It is also possible Pioneer only intends to sell these through custom installation channels, if thats the case then they won't sell many anyway.

pretty sure the Elite dealers will have access to them. alot of those "custom installer channels" are plain guys working out of their houses.

Can anyone list ALL THE DIFFERENCES?

So far we have...

1) No speakers
2) No tuner (any disadvantage here?)
3) Thinner
4) Lighter
5) Special certificate (what is on this?)
6) Same price or cheaper?
7) Called "signature"
8) Better quality control (supposedly?)
9) Can do ISF remotely via PC?

Anything else? Anybody with last year's Signature know any more?

no Sig series last year. this is the first release of a higher end Elite.

supposed to have finer steps/graduations/settings for even better isf calibrations.

About the only thing that wouldn't work for me is the Tuner. Since I watch OTA content, that's a must. I don't watch enough TV to warrant getting cable or dish, so OTA is the route my wife and I choose. I guess I could go back to using a Set Top Box, but alas, that's yet another thing I would have to plug into my system...

Everything else looks great!

I work for magnolia and i have spoken with my pioneer rep and i know for sure the tv is just a monitor, so no speakers, no built in atsc tuner. These models use the best parts possible. They go through rigouous testing more than the elite and standard pioneers. They will also include a ethernet port so if you have any problems, the tv has an ip adress so an installer or pioneer service rep can look at your tv and find out what problem you are having. If i find out any more ill post.

What does the TUNER help with? I don't care "that much" about the lack of speakers using the surround system(s) I have, but I am wondering if I would miss the tuner? Would it hurt PIP (picture in picture) etc...?

I wonder if you are more likely to get a buzzless, perfect pixel TV with the Sig series?

Can this be verified or is it just another one of those urban myth's that are common in this Forum.Unless the panel will be wall mounted, add a few hundred $ more to the cost.

Why would one buy a sig. line if not wall mounting and not wanting aweful tv speakers?

Why would one buy a sig. line if not wall mounting and not wanting aweful tv speakers?Thinner, lighter weight panel (?) who knows (?).

Historically, PDP monitors became popular because there was a significant price difference between monitors & TVs equipped with internal tuners & speakers. During the past few years that price gap has narrowed, perhaps disappeared, so I do not understand why anyone would want to buy a $6500 PDP monitor instead of a $6500 plasma TV?

So you know they will be the same price? And no discounting for either line from msrp?
If you are right, then I wouldn't buy one if they were the same price.
If they are any cheaper, I and many others would.

thinner and less weight is a big deal to some people, including me...

So you know they will be the same price? And no discounting for either line from msrp?
If you are right, then I wouldn't buy one if they were the same price.
If they are any cheaper, I and many others would.How much money are you looking to save?

Where is the "quantifiable" evidence that a 'Signature' series display is any better than the 'Elite'?

Seems more like a "slick marketing" ploy to me.

Or maybe Pioneer has changed (i.e. improved) their manufacturing process for the Signature series, which portends what we can expect from the 10G Piosonics.

no Sig series last year. this is the first release of a higher end Elite.

supposed to have finer steps/graduations/settings for even better isf calibrations.

If true, this sounds like the biggest difference of all, at least imo.

Can this be verified or is it just another one of those urban myth's that are common in this Forum.

Excerpt from the press release (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Home+Entertainment/Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Displays+with+New+S ignature+Series+of+Monitors):

While Pioneer has long boasted some of the most rigorous inspection standards for reliability and performance in the industry, Pioneer’s Signature Series of Elite KURO plasma monitors exceed an even stricter examination process. Many parts of the Elite monitors are hand selected and hand assembled, making the monitor even more unique and distinct in its own right. This meticulous attention to detail is further reinforced by an accompanying certificate confirming the superior level of panel performance and near flawless aesthetics for every serial number created in this exclusive line of monitors.

Roman ^^ Trust Vashti, she has the only true inside scoop on this one.

-Robert

Thats why I was agreeing with her ;)

Pioneer has not released pricing on the 141s yet. Do you have some inside info?
This has been posted a few times, but the guy in the Pioneer elite conference in CANADA mentioned it's the same price as the elite:

http://www.marketnews.ca/videos_detail.asp?vid=131
(excuse his enthusiasm and his gestures as he just loves his job. Imagine playing wii-sports against him :))

Another interesting question. Has anyone heard which way the HDMI inputs face on the Signature model? Many will buy this for the form factor. Imagine putting something this thin on a flat mount. It will look practically flush with the wall. But I can't imagine that working if the inputs are facing out instead of down, like on the 151.

Another interesting question. Has anyone heard which way the HDMI inputs face on the Signature model? Many will buy this for the form factor. Imagine putting something this thin on a flat mount. It will look practically flush with the wall. But I can't imagine that working if the inputs are facing out instead of down, like on the 151.

The inputs on my 151 face out (toward the wall), not down? :confused:

The inputs on my 151 face out (toward the wall), not down? :confused:
But will the 141 be like that? They mention stuff like how it's meant for professional installers and crap like that. Perhaps they'll point them down again.

This has been posted a few times, but the guy in the Pioneer elite conference in CANADA mentioned it's the same price as the elite:

http://www.marketnews.ca/videos_detail.asp?vid=131
(excuse his enthusiasm and his gestures as he just loves his job. Imagine playing wii-sports against him :))
I am very confused with this whole deeper blacks thing and picture details....If you watch that video closely and compare the 9G with the 8G, I can see more picture details in the 8G compared to the 9G even though the guy insists that we can tell the difference only if we watch closely.
I am not TV expert but I could tell that the 9G screen was showing just black screen where there was actually an image in the 8G.
If you dont trust me just pause the video where the guy shows both 8G and 9G together

This is probably what some of the dealers on the forum are concerned about

How much money are you looking to save?

Where is the "quantifiable" evidence that a 'Signature' series display is any better than the 'Elite'?

Seems more like a "slick marketing" ploy to me.

Or maybe Pioneer has changed (i.e. improved) their manufacturing process for the Signature series, which portends what we can expect from the 10G Piosonics.

If it is $10 it is worth it as they eliminate useless items and features for my HT purposes.

Never said it was better, just right for me.

Of course you do.

Cute. :rolleyes:

I hope the price will be the same as the std Kuro. If it's thinner, lighter, finer ISF tuning, network compatiable with web control, QC certificate, then it would be worth if for me. :)

I was just about to pull the trigger on a std 151.

Now, I think I'll wait until I can order a signature model.

this thread is getting me all curious about the sig series.

hmmmmmmmmmm

Why would one buy a sig. line if not wall mounting and not wanting aweful tv speakers?
I would like the Signature because it is a good option for people that don't want the built in tuner (seriously, how many people use this), and are just going to detach the speakers on their 151 as soon as they get it. I would like to think the Signature series is just a cheaper version of the 151 for the people that are just not going to use the "extras" the 151 comes equipped with.

Now if its priced the same as the 151, well, I'll just buy the 151. I'm not going to pay the same for a "stripped down" model . I highly doubt anyone will be able to tell a visual difference (PQ wise) between the 151 and 141, but we'll see. And I'm not buying this "QC" junk. Pioneer is a TOP tier HDTV manufacturer. Their QC should be the SAME for all their models. If they are just reserving the "extra special QC" for their "super" Elite line, I just think that is an awful business move. But if this "extra special QC" can guarantee me a buzz free, non-blotchy set, I'll order one from a forum sponsor without hesitation. The way I see it, if I'm paying for this "extra special QC", it better be damn perfect. I don't want to hear any excuses from Pioneer.

Excerpt from the press release (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Home+Entertainment/Pioneer+Broadens+2008+Elite+KURO+Line+of+Displays+with+New+S ignature+Series+of+Monitors):

While Pioneer has long boasted some of the most rigorous inspection standards for reliability and performance in the industry, Pioneer’s Signature Series of Elite KURO plasma monitors exceed an even stricter examination process. Many parts of the Elite monitors are hand selected and hand assembled, making the monitor even more unique and distinct in its own right. This meticulous attention to detail is further reinforced by an accompanying certificate confirming the superior level of panel performance and near flawless aesthetics for every serial number created in this exclusive line of monitors.OK, I get the "glossy" brochure, sales pitch from Pioneer.

What remains to be seen is if the 'Signature' series is devoid of the blotching, buzzing, dirty screen problems that plague the 8G/9G 'Elite' non-Elite Pioneer PDPs.If it is $10 it is worth it as they eliminate useless items and features for my HT purposes.

Never said it was better, just right for me.

Of course you do.

Cute. :rolleyes:Is the price difference only $10? Well, then... go for it.

I would like the Signature because it is a good option for people that don't want the built in tuner (seriously, how many people use this), and are just going to detach the speakers on their 151 as soon as they get it. I would like to think the Signature series is just a cheaper version of the 151 for the people that are just not going to use the "extras" the 151 comes equipped with.

Now if its priced the same as the 151, well, I'll just buy the 151. I'm not going to pay the same for a "stripped down" model . I highly doubt anyone will be able to tell a visual difference (PQ wise) between the 151 and 141, but we'll see. And I'm not buying this "QC" junk. Pioneer is a TOP tier HDTV manufacturer. Their QC should be the SAME for all their models. If they are just reserving the "extra special QC" for their "super" Elite line, I just think that is an awful business move. But if this "extra special QC" can guarantee me a buzz free, non-blotchy set, I'll order one from a forum sponsor without hesitation. The way I see it, if I'm paying for this "extra special QC", it better be damn perfect. I don't want to hear any excuses from Pioneer.

You misunderstood. If I get a 9g it will be a 141 Sig.

You misunderstood. If I get a 9g it will be a 141 Sig.
Ah, sorry about that.

One reason I bought an PDP 111 instead of waiting for the Sig is that in my opinion the re-sell market widens considerably when one can offer a stand and speakers. And I will be selling it in a couple of years.

Now I'm being told my 141 *WON'T* come with a stand. Oh well. :(

Still, I want that thinner/lighter panel. ;)

Could very well be wrong about the stand. But I seem to remember reading somehwhere that a stand is extra.

Looks like stand is extra now.

Looks like stand is extra now.

The stand has been extra ever since the Sig was announced.

Does anyone know if Pioneer is going to impose the "250 mile" limit on the Signature models? i.e. a distributor cannot ship the Elite models greater than 250 miles. Or so I've read.

Out here in Tucson, 250 miles doesn't even get me out of state.:rolleyes:

Thanks.

Yes all Elite products have the 200 mile sales restriction.

-Robert

Does anyone know if Pioneer is going to impose the "250 mile" limit on the Signature models? i.e. a distributor cannot ship the Elite models greater than 250 miles. Or so I've read. Out here in Tucson, 250 miles doesn't even get me out of state.:rolleyes: Thanks.

many pioneer distributors will ship Elites further than 200-250 miles.

I wonder if Pioneer will include that warranty disclaimer in the certificate they give you when you buy a Sig series??
they do not disclose that in the normal warranty they give an Elite owner.

The stand has been extra ever since the Sig was announced.

It's just funny because the press shots have shown it with a stand. Misleading, Pioneer, very misleading...

Robert, do you know if an "external media box/receiver" is an option on the 141?

Robert, do you know if an "external media box/receiver" is an option on the 141?
I hear the box is not an option but an intregal part of the design. This is why it is thinner than the 111/151.

I here the box is not an option but an intregal part of the design. This is why it is thinner than the 111/151.

Where did you hear that? The other Pioneer Elite PDP monitor (PRO-FHD1) did not have a MR, nor was there ever an option for it.

Where did you hear that? The other Pioneer Elite PDP monitor (PRO-FHD1) did not have a MR, nor was there ever an option for it.
I heard it from some of the members that are "well educated" about the new line up. I also heard it from a sales rep at Tweeter.

Can this be verified or is it just another one of those urban myth's that are common in this Forum.Unless the panel will be wall mounted, add a few hundred $ more to the cost.
what i hope from the 141fd would be free of buzz,blotch and dead pixels

what i hope from the 141fd would be free of buzz,blotch and dead pixels
I do not think we will see any difference on the buzzing. Do you know what type of uproar will occur if Pioneer makes the Sig series buzz free? There will be a lot of pissed customers. The core of their business is the sales of elites and non-elites. This would have the potential to destory sales of their core plasma products. They already struggle to make any money selling this technology right now.

I heard it from some of the members that are "well educated" about the new line up. I also heard it from a sales rep at Tweeter.

Does the MR have tuner(s) or is it only a fancy switch box?

I hear the box is not an option but an intregal part of the design. This is why it is thinner than the 111/151.The 101/141FD will NOT come with a MR. Who ever you got this info from is talking about the KRP-500/600A models that are NOT slated to be released in the NA market.

The 101/141FD will NOT come with a MR. Who ever you got this info from is talking about the KRP-500/600A models that are NOT slated to be released in the NA market.
Thanks for correcting me. I apologize for providing bad info.

The 141 will actually work for me now. I did not want a unit with an MR. Too much equipment and not enough room.

Any new info as to when the 141 will be available? Thanks D-nice.

I heard Aug from a reseller.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13872942#post13872942

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13872942#post13872942
Why on earth do Engineers think the signature series are worth more?

I hope the Japanese KRP 64mm thin monitor is not going to be the same as the 141FD. Here is a photo of the KRP back panel. It is a little lacking IMO.

KRP back panel (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112685&d=1213144674)

They believe the additional firmware features that are available justify a higher charge.

Why on earth do Engineers think the signature series are worth more?

Russ, do you know how many HDMI inputs it will have?

Russ, do you know how many HDMI inputs it will have?

If I remember correctly, the same, but I believe they will all be on the back.

Latest rumor is that the price will be slightly higher, but not confirmed yet.

Latest rumor is that the price will be slightly higher, but not confirmed yet.

I heard similar. Cant wait!

They believe the additional firmware features that are available justify a higher charge.
Let me get this straight:

They take out the speakers
They take out the OTA abilities and cablecard (as if I need the cablecard)
They take out the Stand

And they think Firmware features are worth more than all that?? :confused:

They made it slimmer. New features. "Possible" higher quality.

Some people think no tuner and speakers means better picture, because it prevents any other source for distortion. Kinda like the FHD1.

Maybe they are some pretty awesome firmware features, too early to jump to any conclusions in my opinion.

Let me get this straight:

They take out the speakers
They take out the OTA abilities and cablecard (as if I need the cablecard)
They take out the Stand

And they think Firmware features are worth more than all that?? :confused:

If I remember correctly, the same, but I believe they will all be on the back.
The same as the 151?

Thanks for the picture xrox. I think it's good news that all the connections seem to be pointing down. The HDMI connection going out instead of down on the 151 has me a bit worried.

Does anyone know if the Signature is using the same piano black gloss finish. At one point, there was a rumor that it would be less shiny.

They made it slimmer. New features. "Possible" higher quality.

Some people think no tuner and speakers means better picture, because it prevents any other source for distortion. Kinda like the FHD1.

Maybe they are some pretty awesome firmware features, too early to jump to any conclusions in my opinion.

True... but we're talking a price premium higher than the elite. There better
be something there to justify it is all I say. I can't believe they actually think
they can ask more than an elite that already has the fixings. Sure, a thinner
panel is nice, but it's not like it's that much slimmer. I mean, the elite already
has some pretty super customization on it. I may be over-reacting (okay,
so I am), but I can't help but think Pioneer's engineers are giving themselves
too much credit when they ask to raise the price.

Sigh, I'm starting to think companies should refrain from press releases until
they have a final price. I was seriously expecting this thing to be at or lower
than the price of an elite. It's not like they said it would be a certain price,
but it allowed speculation and now we've potentially set ourselves up for a
disappointment again. (well, at least me)

Perhaps they are going for the {supposed} canadian MSRP of $7K. Would
suck for the U.S. if true.

Did i mention it costs $7500 for the 151 over here?
http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Home+Entertainment/Plasma+TVs+%26+Monitors/Elite+TVs/ci.New+PRO-151FD.Kuro
http://ca.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/12/A70-6421

It's pretty much pointless to argue why mfg'ers ask the prices for their products, especially since we don't know everything about the model until its release. This display may be the "sleeper" of the year, or maybe not. Thanks to D-Nice for clearing up the MR question.

I hope the Japanese KRP 64mm thin monitor is not going to be the same as the 141FD. Here is a photo of the KRP back panel. It is a little lacking IMO.

KRP back panel (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112685&d=1213144674)

Thanks for the pic Xrox. I wouldn't describe the back panel as "lacking". We're not talking about a "TV" here, but rather a "reference monitor" to the max. I don't install displays for a living, but I can only imagine that this pup is ideal for that custom installation for business, post production, etc.

Thanks for the pic Xrox. I wouldn't describe the back panel as "lacking". We're not talking about a "TV" here, but rather a "reference monitor" to the max. I don't install displays for a living, but I can only imagine that this pup is ideal for that custom installation for business, post production, etc.That is true. From the picture it looks like it has a DVI port which, for me, makes up for the loss of one of the 2 HDMI missing. It looks like BNC connections as well rather than component?

BTW, the pic is from iatacs19 posts HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14057082&highlight=pics#post14057082)

Cheers

http://ca.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/12/A70-6421Shaft is one bad.......

xrox

Didn't that video showing the signatures on marketnews show 8 inputs?

I wonder how they get to 8 inputs.

xrox

Didn't that video showing the signatures on marketnews show 8 inputs?

I wonder how they get to 8 inputs.I just watched it again and he doesn't mention inputs. Although he goes on and on about "mirror mode" :) - the day I watch a Kuro in a mirror while shaving is the day I quit working because I'm stinking rich.

About half way through it shows a menu with 8 inputs then below it shows
"sub input"

See if this works

See if this worksThanks, I guess it would help if I actually watched the screens :)

Cheers

I received a quote for the 141 for $200 more than the negotiated price of the 151.

I just hope that all this hype, removal of features, and addition of features doesn't make for a lesser quality panel than the 151 which I could have today.

A stand is also a key item and I am wondering if the stand from the 6020 or 151 will work on the 141. I am sure there are people on the forum who have their tv's on a wall that may want to sell their stand.

I just want to know more about the 141 before ordering. I will probably wait for a review.

D-nice, will you be reviewing the 141 when it comes out?

Does anyone have a good reason to go for a 151 now vs. wait for a 151? D-nice mentioned once before he would take the 151 because it had speakers and he could move it to his bedroom later in its life. But if we don't need speakers or a tuner...ever....is there a reason to go one way over the other?

resellability of the 151 with tuner, stand, speakers, etc would probably be easier.

The 141 is most likely to be priced exactly as the 151, $6,500 MSRP. It is well worth the same price if you don't need the speakers, tuners and stand as it is a custom install dream system.

Better calibration capability, unlimited IP applications, lower profile, draws less current, stays cooler.

-Robert

The 141 is most likely to be priced exactly as the 151, $6,500 MSRP. It is well worth the same price if you don't need the speakers, tuners and stand as it is a custom install dream system.

Better calibration capability, unlimited IP applications, lower profile, draws less current, stays cooler.

-RobertIt must weigh a lot less too (anyone know how much?). And don't forget the mirror feature for those bathroom Kuro owners :)

+ the certificate, you get a certificate from Pioneer USA

The 141 is most likely to be priced exactly as the 151, $6,500 MSRP. It is well worth the same price if you don't need the speakers, tuners and stand as it is a custom install dream system.

Better calibration capability, unlimited IP applications, lower profile, draws less current, stays cooler.

-Robert

You sir are a salesman at heart! My 141 is back on order. :)



(okay, so I made up my mind before I read your post... but didn't you feel good for a sec?)

Thanks for the picture xrox. I think it's good news that all the connections seem to be pointing down. The HDMI connection going out instead of down on the 151 has me a bit worried.

Does anyone know if the Signature is using the same piano black gloss finish. At one point, there was a rumor that it would be less shiny.

Can the 151 even be wall mounted on a thin flat mount as I planned given the HDMIs point outward. This is with the assumption that you do not have to buy some custom 90 degree HDMIs even if they exist? I also questioned this when I saw original photos of 151 HDMIs going out rather than down? I may have to go with 141 if HDMIs go down?

Bryan, several have posted that it was a very tight connection. At least one person had some real trouble making it work - but he did. I haven't read any reports here of people unable to connect. Still, it seems like a poor design choice to me.

Bryan, several have posted that it was a very tight connection. At least one person had some real trouble making it work - but he did. I haven't read any reports here of people unable to connect. Still, it seems like a poor design choice to me.

Do 90 degree HDMIs even exist to make this easier?
If not, the 141 (if it is the same as Japan picture) may be worth going with if only to achieve a tighter wall mount, and to eliminate the side controls and I/O which I do not care for on 151?

eliminate the side controls and I/O which I do not care for on 151?

What's an I/O?

Also, let me try this question again, since I've gotten no answers yet. Anybody know if the bezel will be the same piano black glossy bezel or something more matte? I know the matte rumor was floating around at one point. Robert? Anyone?

What's an I/O?

Also, let me try this question again, since I've gotten no answers yet. Anybody know if the bezel will be the same piano black glossy bezel or something more matte? I know the matte rumor was floating around at one point. Robert? Anyone?

Input Output (ie the side contols and inputs on the 151 - HDMI, USB, etc)

Do 90 degree HDMIs even exist to make this easier?

Yes, but the ones I've seen are molded 90deg. across the long side, so with the HDMI port setup on the 151 they would overlap/block the one next to it.

I would agree on eliminating the side I/O, pretty much because it's on the one that shows with my installation. It amazes me the unattractive or seemingly poorly thought out design features I see on my 6020, when my Gen3 Pio that I still own has/had better solutions IMHO.

Even it has NR and 5 level Color Temp adjustability per input.:rolleyes:

The 141 is most likely to be priced exactly as the 151, $6,500 MSRP. It is well worth the same price if you don't need the speakers, tuners and stand as it is a custom install dream system.

Better calibration capability, unlimited IP applications, lower profile, draws less current, stays cooler.

-Robert

Robert: Do you mean it draws less current owing to its lack of speakers and tuner? Or is there any other efficiency with this panel?
I can see where a custom install might benefit from reduced current at the panel if enclosed, most of us would negate the benefit overall though, if adding back a tuner or speakers elsewhere.

Thanks,
Steve

They have 90 degree and 270 degree so that might help a little bit...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041907&p_id=3733&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041907&p_id=3850&seq=1&format=2


Yes, but the ones I've seen are molded 90deg. across the long side, so with the HDMI port setup on the 151 they would overlap/block the one next to it.

They have 90 degree and 270 degree so that might help a little bit...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041907&p_id=3733&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041907&p_id=3850&seq=1&format=2

Thanks Russ & I also found on - Chiefmfg.com - the following recess box that would also provide some additional room for the 151s straight HDMIs. The video shpws the clean install, but I would not do the mirror over a Kuro !

PAC510
PAC-510™ Retro-Fit Pre-wire box
The PAC510 Retro-Fit box simplifies plasma TV installation. Used for retro-fit applications, this product provides an organized, recessed space for routing excess cables and for attaching surge protectors/power conditioners. (See PAC/MAC/FAC501 for In-Wall Swing Arm Accessories)

Compatible with Chief flat panel TV wall mounts including: PST/PRO/PLP/MSR/MTR/MWH/MWR/PWR/PNR/PDR

Watch a video of a PAC510 installation

There are 3 versions of this product: The PAC-510 is intended for use in installations where an existing finshed (drywalled) wall is present, and includes flanged edges to cover the cutout in wall. The PAC-515 and PAC-520 are intended for use in i

Thanks Russ & I also found on - Chiefmfg.com - the following recess box that would also provide some additional room for the 151s straight HDMIs. The video shpws the clean install, but I would not do the mirror over a Kuro !

PAC510
PAC-510™ Retro-Fit Pre-wire box
The PAC510 Retro-Fit box simplifies plasma TV installation. Used for retro-fit applications, this product provides an organized, recessed space for routing excess cables and for attaching surge protectors/power conditioners. (See PAC/MAC/FAC501 for In-Wall Swing Arm Accessories)

Compatible with Chief flat panel TV wall mounts including: PST/PRO/PLP/MSR/MTR/MWH/MWR/PWR/PNR/PDR

Watch a video of a PAC510 installation

There are 3 versions of this product: The PAC-510 is intended for use in installations where an existing finshed (drywalled) wall is present, and includes flanged edges to cover the cutout in wall. The PAC-515 and PAC-520 are intended for use in i

I didn't catch the end of your comment. I'm planning on one of these PAC inwall units for my install along with the PNRIW2000B + PSB2043. I'm in a retrofit situation, lathe & plaster no less!

Which one would you recommend?

I spoke with my local Elite dealer today (huge dealer) and found out the 141FD is now showing up in their system with a retail price of $6,500!

Yea! I'm so glad it's the same price as the 151FD and 1" thinner too! ;)

I spoke with my local Elite dealer today (huge dealer) and found out the 141FD is now showing up in their system with a retail price of $6,500!

Yea! I'm so glad it's the same price as the 151FD and 1" thinner too! ;)

Any chance you can get the price for the stand as well?

Thanx

I spoke with my local Elite dealer today (huge dealer) and found out the 141FD is now showing up in their system with a retail price of $6,500!

Yea! I'm so glad it's the same price as the 151FD and 1" thinner too! ;)

The 141 is most likely to be priced exactly as the 151, $6,500 MSRP. It is well worth the same price if you don't need the speakers, tuners and stand as it is a custom install dream system.

Better calibration capability, unlimited IP applications, lower profile, draws less current, stays cooler.

-Robert

Already posted on 7/4, thanks for the confirmation.

-Robert

Does anybody know whether there is a way to connect speakers to this television without going through a receivers??? Are there audio outs for speakers?

I doubt it. You are using the wrong terminology for this display by using the word "television". The 141 is a reference quality "monitor". Whatever you want to add to this monitor in terms of audio amplification, speakers, tuners, DVD/BD players, video processors, internet networking, etc. can be accomplished. This is the beauty & advantages of the "monitor", as this display will remain constant in your A/V System, while your future upgrades will occur w/the peripheral external components.

Does anybody know whether there is a way to connect speakers to this television without going through a receivers??? Are there audio outs for speakers?

No and as posted above, the 141 technically should be referred to as a monitor, not a TV. It make a great TV when connected to a source.

BTW, to directly answer your question the 141 does not have an audio amplifier so you can not connect speakers to it.

-Robert

I'm in the market for a new set.. I was going to get the 151 but should I wait for the 141? (unfortunately I will need a stand)...? Is it worth to wait and pay the extra amount for the stand and the 141?

Thanks

I'm in the market for a new set.. I was going to get the 151 but should I wait for the 141? (unfortunately I will need a stand)...? Is it worth to wait and pay the extra amount for the stand and the 141?

Thanks

That's hard to say since I don't know how much the stand is or if you can put a stand on a 141 (assume you can but...).

If it's not too much more (<$500) I would opt for the 141 since it's thinner and has a few more features.

That's hard to say since I don't know how much the stand is or if you can put a stand on a 141 (assume you can but...).

If it's not too much more (<$500) I would opt for the 141 since it's thinner and has a few more features.

Okay.. And the 141's are supposed to hit stores like Best Buy / Magnolia when?

This is killing me. Why aren't dealers getting release dates?? I have enough money for the 151 just burning a hole in my pocket, but I would rather get the 141. If it ever comes out...

I have been told very end of August '08 for the 141 60" and end of October for end 50". It is possible that we may see a tiny release to a select few dealers in early August.

-Robert

I have been told very end of August '08 for the 141 60" and end of October for end 50". It is possible that we may see a tiny release to a select few dealers in early August.

-Robert


Ugh, kinda breaks it for me.. I'll end up getting a 151 most likely...

I wonder if perhaps Pioneer will release non-Elite (or non-Signature if you prefer) versions of these monitors at a later date? Rather like the 5000EX was to the FHD1 in a couple generations ago. Nothing against the Elites, but I'd like something priced more along the lines of the 6020FD (with any concessions in PQ being ok for my particular use).

mkoesel, if you want 6020 pricing on a 141, then you'll most likely have to wait till Fall 2009. From what I understand, the 5000EX was initially European over-stock that ended up over here for sale after the FHD1 was well over a year after release, and the new Kuro models were about to come out.

Can anyone else confirm that pricing for the Elite Signatures are now showing up in dealers' systems? I called my local Elite dealer today, politely prodded for a solid 5 minutes (I've already been in there several times this summer, so my salesman definitely knows me & knows I'm a serious buyer)....yet they still say that they've got *nothing* on the 141....

Although the release of the 141FD is just over a month away, information on this monitor, except for the release announcement in May, is about as easy to find as hens teeth.

Robert, you must have some more info that can be shared with those of us who are patiently waiting for the 141 - especially since you will be featuring one of these monitors in your shoot-out this coming weekend. (Unfortunately, I cannot attend as I am a 10 hour drive away, each way.)

Thanks for anything you can share in advance of the weekend - e.g. cut sheets, etc.

141 are still forecast for end of August shipping from Southern CA so very late August to the first week of September for us East Cost folk.

-Robert


Nobody will be able to buy 'em unless pricing is officially released to their dealers one of these days. That's all I'd be happy with for the moment, is to have the pricing be available in my dealer's system soas at least I could put a deposit down on one....

The agony of waiting.... Aargh! ;-)

Several people have said that pricing has shown up in various systems. The 141 is $6500.

Nobody will be able to buy 'em unless pricing is officially released to their dealers one of these days. That's all I'd be happy with for the moment, is to have the pricing be available in my dealer's system soas at least I could put a deposit down on one....

The agony of waiting.... Aargh! ;-)

if he's a decent dealer and your a known good customer he shouldn't even need a deposit. if he claims he has to have a deposit then $1 to at most $650 should cover it anyway.

02redhawk ^^ I've been told the 141 will be $6,500 MSRP, same as the 151. Not official yet, but this is a 99% likely to be the price.

-Robert

02redhawk ^^ I've been told the 141 will be $6,500 MSRP, same as the 151. Not official yet, but this is a 99% likely to be the price.

-Robert

Heh, and that 1% likelihood was shipped up north to Canada right?! :)
Yeah, it'll likely be at least $7K here but at least it isn't $8999 like the 151
was last year.

Good news for you guys in the states though!

Several people have said that pricing has shown up in various systems. The 141 is $6500.

Yea only MSRP :(

I'm baffled as to how they can justify charging the same MSRP for something that is essentially an elite minus features.

Although the release of the 141FD is just over a month away, information on this monitor, except for the release announcement in May, is about as easy to find as hens teeth.


Exactly,

My local dealer still believes it will have an outboard power supply. I understand Pioneer not posting specs 6months in advance of a new model because some specs/options may change leading up to full production. But one month away from release and even some of their Elite dealers are out of the loop. How the hell do they expect them to sell them if you can't get any firm answers.

On a second note a local Elite dealer (non BB) was told by Pioneer to expect a difference in PQ between a 141 and 151 equivalent to comparing a 8G Elite to a 9G Elite, so who knows :confused:

Last, Robert are the Pio reps bringing a 101 or 141 for your shootout

I'm baffled as to how they can justify charging the same MSRP for something that is essentially an elite minus features.

it is an elite with some added features to some people. alot of people that are buying a sig series have surround systems, tuners and mounts and want the added picture quality features instead of the standard consumer level features.

it should be in limited supply and they can charge what the market bears. If it sells slow like the overpriced 50" fhd1 at $10K msrp they can drop the msrp or do a freebie/rebate program to up sales.

and remember that fujitsu is out of the market and alot of installer/dealers are looking for a monitor/panel to replace some of those lost high margin sales. i'd say to look for the 60" sig series to sell quite well.

Several people have said that pricing has shown up in various systems. The 141 is $6500.


I've seen that, but unless Pioneer has officially released this to ALL their Elite/Signature dealers (ie, like my local 2-3) then it does me no good...

I do find it very odd, though, how or why Pioneer would "selectively" release pricing to some Elite/Sig dealers and not others yet. Wonder why it wouldn't be a nationwide 'flip the switch' release to have it show up in all ordering systems on the same day....???

Not that I didn't post this about 2 months ago indicating that the pricing would be the same, but to make people feel better, this is confirmed:

Confirmed:

101FD MAP - $5000 (Oct)
141FD MAP - $6500 (Aug)

KRP-TS01 - $400 (Stand for 60")
KRP-TS02 - $200 (Stand for 50")

Added to the Elite Owner's Thread and the General Thread also...

So Russ, it's either the 141 or wait for 10g. Any suggestions?

(personally, I'm wondering what $6K will get me a year from now)

One of the things I've learned in life is that, it's too short, so enjoy it now, because you don't know what it will bring you in the future.

So with all the philosophy aside, if you have something you like now, then you can wait. If you don't have anything, why wait? You can wait forever. There will be an 11G and a 12G... In my case, I waited 8 years before buying my 1140HD, but that's because what I had I liked better then everything else. At the same time, I wanted bigger, but the 1540 at the time wasn't good enough. So I waited and then got the 150 and now the 151. Now not everyone has the same luxury, but in general, if you are talking about a $5+ k television, you arn't suffering.

If I remember correctly, you don't have anything now... so in that case, I'd say go for it. Especially with the potential delay issues with the 10G and like I said, who knows where you will be next year... maybe you'll win the lottery and you can buy a bunch!



Russ

Not that I didn't post this about 2 months ago indicating that the pricing would be the same, but to make people feel better, this is confirmed:

Confirmed:

101FD MAP - $5000 (Oct)
141FD MAP - $6500 (Aug)

KRP-TS01 - $400 (Stand for 60")
KRP-TS02 - $200 (Stand for 50")

Added to the Elite Owner's Thread and the General Thread also...

Man you are quick, the real pricing is out too now :D

Exactly,

My local dealer still believes it will have an outboard power supply. I understand Pioneer not posting specs 6months in advance of a new model because some specs/options may change leading up to full production. But one month away from release and even some of their Elite dealers are out of the loop. How the hell do they expect them to sell them if you can't get any firm answers.

On a second note a local Elite dealer (non BB) was told by Pioneer to expect a difference in PQ between a 141 and 151 equivalent to comparing a 8G Elite to a 9G Elite, so who knows :confused:

Last, Robert are the Pio reps bringing a 101 or 141 for your shootout

I hope that the 141 might still come with a thinner bezel on the sides!

One of the things I've learned in life is that, it's too short, so enjoy it now, because you don't know what it will bring you in the future.

So with all the philosophy aside, if you have something you like now, then you can wait. If you don't have anything, why wait? You can wait forever. There will be an 11G and a 12G... In my case, I waited 8 years before buying my 1140HD, but that's because what I had I liked better then everything else. At the same time, I wanted bigger, but the 1540 at the time wasn't good enough. So I waited and then got the 150 and now the 151. Now not everyone has the same luxury, but in general, if you are talking about a $5+ k television, you arn't suffering.

If I remember correctly, you don't have anything now... so in that case, I'd say go for it. Especially with the potential delay issues with the 10G and like I said, who knows where you will be next year... maybe you'll win the lottery and you can buy a bunch!



Russ
Good way to put it. I'm running on a 4280 but my house won't be built until
January. Currently I'm residing in a bedroom at my brother's place, so it's not
like I should get the 141 until I move in. Still, I'll be able to save a bundle if I
buy the 141 when it comes out now (don't ask). Still, I seriously don't think
the 4280 is enough for this house, but I do wonder if I'll be all giddy with the
new house to a point where even an awesome new TV won't seem to have as
much lustre.

BUT... who cares about newness when the TV is awesome eh! So I'll have to live
with the thing in a bedroom until I move in (if I go that route).:)

Man you are quick, the real pricing is out too now :D

What does that mean?

What does that mean?

Dealer pricing.

I have some unconfirmed news that there will be a $500 MSRP drop from pioneer in August...I heard this from a authorized pioneer dealer. I hope this is true...we will find out next month

May be some one like Robert or Roman can give us more accurate information on this

samkk0891, ^^ I have not heard that, so I do doubt we see any price drop so early in the model year, especially since sales have been extremely brisk and considering the very limited inventory Pioneer produces of their 9G panels their is no reason to lower the price. However, it is possible that I may just not know.

-Robert

samkk0891, ^^ I have not heard that, so I do doubt we see any price drop so early in the model year, especially since sales have been extremely brisk and considering the very limited inventory Pioneer produces of their 9G panels their is no reason to lower the price. However, it is possible that I may just not know.

-Robert

Yea...why drop the price right when they release the 141 without giving it a chance to sell.

samkk0891, ^^ I have not heard that, so I do doubt we see any price drop so early in the model year, especially since sales have been extremely brisk and considering the very limited inventory Pioneer produces of their 9G panels their is no reason to lower the price. However, it is possible that I may just not know.

-Robert
Thanks for that info

Typically what time of the year does Pioneer drop their MSRP?

The 141 looks to be simply a higher margin product for Pioneer. The glass and video processing are likely to be exactly the same. I have never heard about how hand picking electronic components is going to improve the product!

You're going to pay more for less. Kinda like paying you auto dealer to remove the AC from your car and saying the car is now better better because it can go faster due to lower weight and adding a fancy pin stripe to the paint :)

I thought the Elites already provided full ISF calibration capabilities. What will more adjustments get you?

The 141 looks to be simply a higher margin product for Pioneer. The glass and video processing are likely to be exactly the same. I have never heard about how hand picking electronic components is going to improve the product!

You're going to pay more for less. Kinda like paying you auto dealer to remove the AC from your car and saying the car is now better better because it can go faster due to lower weight and adding a fancy pin stripe to the paint :)

I thought the Elites already provided full ISF calibration capabilities. What will more adjustments get you?
I dont know the answer to that...But i decided to get the 141 b/c I`m hoping it will be free from blotching,dead pixels ...and more over I haved a home theater anyways..so I dont need the speakers
If it is hand picked , it better show some superiority

Will the Signature series have the same sales limitations as the Elites (no-internet, 250 miles, etc.)?

samkk0891, ^^ I have not heard that, so I do doubt we see any price drop so early in the model year, especially since sales have been extremely brisk and considering the very limited inventory Pioneer produces of their 9G panels their is no reason to lower the price. However, it is possible that I may just not know.

-Robert

I agree. They need to keep up with supply first and then maybe :)

Will the Signature series have the same sales limitations as the Elites (no-internet, 250 miles, etc.)?

We dont get in to these discussions anymore, well at least try to. Just contact individual sponsors.

russwong, do you know whether the KRP-TS01 60" stand is the exact same stand that ships with the 151 or not? Something like a gold scripted "Singature" on the base might be nice. :D

Why on earth do Engineers think the signature series are worth more?

Could it maybe be because the engineers who designed and created the Sig series know a zillions times more about it than the speculation on this forum?

I'm baffled as to how they can justify charging the same MSRP for something that is essentially an elite minus features.

Perhaps ... just perhaps ... they are not the same. FWIW .... I'm betting the Sigs will have features and/or quality above and beyond a regular Elite. How much more remains to be seen. However, I've got a feeling these babies are going to be worth the wait. I hope so, cause I'm waiting.

And for you cynics who think that all marketing statements and literature is all a bunch of lies, and the Sigs are nothing more than marketing hype ........ Pio may have made some marketing mistakes in the past, but I don't think they're so stupid as to go to all this trouble to "fool" everyone. Either way, there's no need to anguish about what you "think" you know.

I dont know the answer to that...But i decided to get the 141 b/c I`m hoping it will be free from blotching,dead pixels ...and more over I haved a home theater anyways..so I dont need the speakers
If it is hand picked , it better show some superiority

You can detach the speakers from the Elite (if you don't need it). Of course you should get whatever version you prefer. I have the Elite and I am lucky I got it since I use the TV speakers with my PC for the times I do not want to start up the whole AV system. I upgraded the stock Pioneer speakers with a couple of Def Tech speakers and it works really well (plus they are located further apart than I could have with the stock Pioneer speakers. I used the Elite speakers in my bedroom (recessed into the wall) with a flat wall mounted Brookstone CD/AM/FM/Alarm :)

Anyway, I am not sure how hand picking will help the process since this is electronic components and a human eye can't really tell the difference. Plus, there is no reason to believe the sig series will be assembled any different from the Elite.

The sig series is designed to increase margin for the retailers. But if it works for you, then great.

Could it maybe be because the engineers who designed and created the Sig series know a zillions times more about it than the speculation on this forum?


The Engineers don't think it is worth more, the marketing people do (and to highlight the merits using engineers (or any other expert) is part of the sales pitch) :D

Perhaps ... just perhaps ... they are not the same. FWIW .... I'm betting the Sigs will have features and/or quality above and beyond a regular Elite. How much more remains to be seen. However, I've got a feeling these babies are going to be worth the wait. I hope so, cause I'm waiting.

And for you cynics who think that all marketing statements and literature is all a bunch of lies, and the Sigs are nothing more than marketing hype ........ Pio may have made some marketing mistakes in the past, but I don't think they're so stupid as to go to all this trouble to "fool" everyone. Either way, there's no need to anguish about what you "think" you know.

I agree 100%. It's baffling how people can be so skeptical about the Signature line w/o ever seeing it. If you want to look to a CE Mfg'er's past record in order to predict their future record, then you would have to give Pioneer an A+. Pioneer has consistently produced the very best displays for awhile now, and what they show at CES actually does get produced & sold. I'm in a "wait & see" mode, and will give Pioneer the benefit of any doubt until proven otherwise. I do know that comments from people that have actually seen a demo of the 141 have been more than impressed by it. Those comments count for something other than to be dismissed by uninformed skeptics.

The Engineers don't think it is worth more, the marketing people do (and to highlight the merits using engineers (or any other expert) is part of the sales pitch) :D

So you know for sure what the engineers think, and that Pio's marketing department is lying about this? I wish I had your insight.

So you know for sure that Pio's marketing department is lying about the engineers? I wish I had your insight.

Oh come on, like it isn't completely obvious that this is all marketing. Does anyone really think these are going to be better panels than the Elites in terms of PQ?

Oh come on, like it isn't completely obvious that this is all marketing. Does anyone really think these are going to be better panels than the Elites in terms of PQ?

No it's not "obvious" .... either way. That's my point.

Well, anyone care to pony up the 11$ for the manual? It is one of the few in stock items. Or we can keep waiting until it is posted on the website.

LINK (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PRO-141FD&x=19&y=7)

Cheers

Notice how the remote is 47$ for the 151 and 75$ for the 141 :)

Anyway, this lack of info is getting to me......

Cheers

Well, anyone care to pony up the 11$ for the manual? It is one of the few in stock items. Or we can keep waiting until it is posted on the website.

LINK (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PRO-141FD&x=19&y=7)

Cheers

With shipping its double that and by the time it gets there it will probably be posted :) We should see it shortly.

So you know for sure what the engineers think, and that Pio's marketing department is lying about this? I wish I had your insight.


Marketing by definiton is about stretching. The 141 sig series look like a product a marketing dept would dream up. Repackage an existing product and make less look like more :D

No it's not "obvious" .... either way. That's my point.

One could easily infer that IF indeed the Sig series had better PQ than the Elite series, then we are going to get a Sig Elite at some point - why not add another $1000 to the Sig series for those who DO want the best PQ AND a Tuner and speaker? Why leave money on the table like that. Hence, why I believe that the PQ is maxed out at the Elite and the Sig adds a premium for those who want to buy exclusivity. Quite simple really.

Oh come on, like it isn't completely obvious that this is all marketing. Does anyone really think these are going to be better panels than the Elites in terms of PQ?

They don't need to have better PQ; for some just having the low profile form factor is a selling point. Panasonic seems to sell a fair number of their commercial models to HT enthusiats for just that reason. They, too, are priced at or more than the comparable consumer model. Pioneer also has a commercial monitor product line, but its woefully outdated. So for anyone wanting a Pioneer monitor, these will be very attractive.

I would love it if the Signature series was pre-screened and guaranteed to be 100% defect-free, including pixels, blotching, buzzing, etc. That would be worth some extra money to me.

not possible........there are already several reports from 9g owners where they received a pixel perfect panel and then had 1 or more pixel problems come up later a week or so after delivery.

I would love it if the Signature series was pre-screened and guaranteed to be 100% defect-free, including pixels, blotching, buzzing, etc. That would be worth some extra money to me.

The Blotching and buzzing is one thing, but pixels just happen. There will never be a 100% defect free TV.

Marketing by definiton is about stretching. The 141 sig series look like a product a marketing dept would dream up. Repackage an existing product and make less look like more :D

"Look" like? Now there's some convincing evidence. I'm not saying your wrong ... but, "looks like" and a distrust of marketers don't make it so. I'm well aware that most marketing runs from slightly misleading to absolute lies, but not all of it. Either way the marketing is not what's going to sell me on buying the 141. I'll make that decision when I actually see the Sig with my own eyes and hear the opinions of those whom I trust.

One could easily infer that IF indeed the Sig series had better PQ than the Elite series, then we are going to get a Sig Elite at some point - why not add another $1000 to the Sig series for those who DO want the best PQ AND a Tuner and speaker? Why leave money on the table like that. Hence, why I believe that the PQ is maxed out at the Elite and the Sig adds a premium for those who want to buy exclusivity. Quite simple really.

Who knows ... I don't and you don't. I'll actually have to see it for myself before I can be as convinced as you are sight unseen.

I would love it if the Signature series was pre-screened and guaranteed to be 100% defect-free, including pixels, blotching, buzzing, etc. That would be worth some extra money to me.

Sounds like the 141 reference monitor is not your cup of tea. No big deal. The 141 is a niche display w/a limited market. Hence there will be very limited production. Personally speaking, I don't think Pioneer will have any problem selling all of their limited supply once released.

Sounds like the 141 reference monitor is not your cup of tea. No big deal. The 141 is a niche display w/a limited market. Hence there will be very limited production. Personally speaking, I don't think Pioneer will have any problem selling all of their limited supply once released.

Not at all -- the 141 is 100% up my alley. I own a Panasonic commercial plasma monitor now, use two video processors, and love to do my own greyscale calibrations and such, so the 141 would be a very nice upgrade for me.

I'm just saying that a company like Pioneer (or any company for that matter) could create a special line of pre-inspected displays that are guaranteed to be defect free and charge a premium for it. I think there is a significant market for people willing to pay for that kind of peace of mind... and it's probably the same group of people who would buy a Signature Series monitor.

When I buy a new computer monitor from my local computer store, I have the option of paying for "pixel insurance" (equal to 5% of the purchase price) that guarantees me a pixel-perfect display for the first 30 days. I've bought the insurance twice, and used it once. It's a great option, and one that I wish plasma manufacturers (or their retailers) would consider.

I'm just saying that a company like Pioneer (or any company for that matter) could create a special line of pre-inspected displays that are guaranteed to be defect free and charge a premium for it. I think there is a significant market for people willing to pay for that kind of peace of mind... and it's probably the same group of people who would buy a Signature Series monitor.

When I buy a new computer monitor from my local computer store, I have the option of paying for "pixel insurance" (equal to 5% of the purchase price) that guarantees me a pixel-perfect display for the first 30 days. I've bought the insurance twice, and used it once. It's a great option, and one that I wish plasma manufacturers (or their retailers) would consider.

Sounds like a great system ... for a "store." But can you imagine the uproar if a "manufacturer" like Pio offered a "defect free" model to the rich few but a "non-defect-free" model to their much larger customer base? Oh my ... I can hear the howls now.

I'm hoping that their supposed hand-picked parts and extra QC will produce a Sig plasma that's 99.9% defect free. I'll just have to wait and "see."

Thanks to xrox, here is the link to the Pioneer parts site for the Pro-141FD http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=PRO-141FD

If you take the time to jump back and forth from that main parts list to individual parts links (it's sure slow for my computer), you will notice that some of the parts listed are for just the 141, some for 141 and KRP600M (Japanese 141?) and some for more models - eg. all Kuro panels or all 60 inchers or for the Elite 60 inchers - including the 151 (If this is confusing, just go have a look and you will see what I mean!)

The long and the short of it is it seems that the "main" part - the panel - is shared among the 141, KRP600 and 151 (not 6020) but the power supply unit also includes the 6020.

Some items just for the 141 and KRP600 include the service manual, the remote control, 60F X drive assy, 60F Y drive assy, senB assy and senC assy (whatever those things are?).

I note that the I/O assy(Elite) is only for the 141 as is the owner's manual.

Happily, the cleaning cloth seems to be for every Pioneer Plasma ever made :D

I not sure what all this means except that possibly the biggest pieces of a 141 are the same as the 151 with the exception of some smaller (and much cheaper) components that somehow improve the 141 for the price (considering what it lacks vs. the 151).

Also, does this mean for not a lot of money (and the right know-how), you could "mod" a 151 to act like a 141?

Questions indeed!

Since the form factors are different some basic fitting elements (assembly components) will be different. This is the case even with products that are clones of each other.

I understand.

I didn't want to re-open the discussion, I was merely curious how the signature line slotted into their hierarchy. Is it considered an "Elite"?



We dont get in to these discussions anymore, well at least try to. Just contact individual sponsors.

I swear half of the people on this thread should be magicians or future tellers (Anyone's name Merlin?? Anyone?). Everyone has their 2 cents about a product that has not seen the light of day on paper or in hands.

Just let it go until we get the full story. Some of you probably won't sleep for weeks thinking about this and that... That is self destructive behavior and will only give you more grays ;)

Just wait for the official announcement and specs, simple as that. Then you can speculate about something more legit. Is it worth it, is it not, does it wash itself?? Does anyone know?

Hmm... even though it has the same panel, I do wonder if other differences
will yield changes in certain readings and such. Why the secrecy, dammit?

I swear half of the people on this thread should be magicians or future tellers (Anyone's name Merlin?? Anyone?). Everyone has their 2 cents about a product that has not seen the light of day on paper or in hands.

Just let it go until we get the full story. Some of you probably won't sleep for weeks thinking about this and that... That is self destructive behavior and will only give you more grays ;)

Just wait for the official announcement and specs, simple as that. Then you can speculate about something more legit. Is it worth it, is it not, does it wash itself?? Does anyone know?"I hate waiting" Inigo Montoya :D

Not at all -- the 141 is 100% up my alley. I own a Panasonic commercial plasma monitor now, use two video processors, and love to do my own greyscale calibrations and such, so the 141 would be a very nice upgrade for me.

I'm just saying that a company like Pioneer (or any company for that matter) could create a special line of pre-inspected displays that are guaranteed to be defect free and charge a premium for it. I think there is a significant market for people willing to pay for that kind of peace of mind... and it's probably the same group of people who would buy a Signature Series monitor.

When I buy a new computer monitor from my local computer store, I have the option of paying for "pixel insurance" (equal to 5% of the purchase price) that guarantees me a pixel-perfect display for the first 30 days. I've bought the insurance twice, and used it once. It's a great option, and one that I wish plasma manufacturers (or their retailers) would consider.

The "pixel insurance" is not a bad idea, and would give people an option.

The commercial Panny monitors were a pretty good deal for the right price... unlike those $30,000 CRT reference monitors from Sony Broadcast & Professional Div. I can easily see these 141's providing networking & presentations in business meeting rooms around the country, or custom HT installations for the home, or maybe even doing duty as display reference monitors in broadcast studios, etc. Lots of professional applications for an excellent monitor. Not really for the popcorn smackin' sofa crowd, although I imagine the 141 could easily perform this task too.

I heard there is a wall mount made by pioneer for the 141 (and perhaps 151) which is suppose to be very low profile giving the 141 a flush look against the wall. The only catch is the price ~$350. Has anyone used this mount?

I heard there is a wall mount made by pioneer for the 141 (and perhaps 151) which is suppose to be very profile giving the 141 a flush look against the wall. The only catch is the price ~$350. Has anyone used this mount?
Can anyone verify if they have successfully used the following Peerless Slimline Ultra-Thin mount for a 60" Kuro or Elite? Since the HDMIs come straight out, I would assume you would also need to use their recessed box accessory IAB1 for power/cables to go into since it is so tight to the wall. This appears to be the thinnest I have found, and it should look "Very Tight" with the Signature !

http://www.peerlessmounts.com/ProductDocs/PeerlessSlimlineBrochure-email.pdf

I understand.

I didn't want to re-open the discussion, I was merely curious how the signature line slotted into their hierarchy. Is it considered an "Elite"?

Yes it is :)

Just for the fun of it, based off the parts link.

It does show a different bezel between the 151 and 141, difference unknown.

A little quick addition and came up with a replacement part cost of $5,999.85 for the 141FD, but I don't believe that's the complete list.

Adding up the cost of the parts the 151 has that the 141 doesn't, including stand, tuner, speaker assy, side inputs, more expensive drives, equals a retail parts cost differential of roughly $950.

The difference in the bezel between the 141 and the 151 is likely the logo - "Signature" vs. "Elite".

One major feature that has been reported concerning the PRO-141FD is its sophisticated networking abilities. If I remember correctly, it has been alluded that due to those networking capabilities, the 141 will have the added ability to be calibrated by a Pioneer Tech through their network. Has anyone heard anything about this??

do i have to be in the 250 mile limit for the 141?

do i have to be in the 250 mile limit for the 141?

As stated before, no one wants to get in to this argument so just contact each sponsor if interested :)

KRP-WM01 $ 350.00 August, 2008

(Ultra Slim Profile Wall Mount for 60” Class Monitor)

KRP-WM02 $ 200.00 October, 2008

(Ultra Slim Profile Wall Mount for 50” Class Monitor)


I heard there is a wall mount made by pioneer for the 141 (and perhaps 151) which is suppose to be very low profile giving the 141 a flush look against the wall. The only catch is the price ~$350. Has anyone used this mount?

Talk about a thread of meaningless speculation and people trying to convince themselves that the Sig is nothing more then the Elite. Just like people who try to convince themselves that the non-elite is just like the Elite. If you aren't interested in the Sig series, then move on. Why do people have to try and make themselves feel better by trying to convince everyone else that it's not worth it....

do i have to be in the 250 mile limit for the 141?

no. contact one of the avs forum sponsors like roman at buybestplasma.com john marty at axxis audio or pm avs member russwong, he has a good elite dealer contact.

Thx Russ. Looks like the perfect mount if you want the ultra flush look. Assuming you need a recessed power box on the wall such as the powerbridge.

Found a picture of the mount:
http://www3.pioneer.co.jp/product/windowsize.php?no=00002840&type=2

DP

KRP-WM01 $ 350.00 August, 2008

(Ultra Slim Profile Wall Mount for 60” Class Monitor)

KRP-WM02 $ 200.00 October, 2008

(Ultra Slim Profile Wall Mount for 50” Class Monitor)

Talk about a thread of meaningless speculation and people trying to convince themselves that the Sig is nothing more then the Elite. Just like people who try to convince themselves that the non-elite is just like the Elite. If you aren't interested in the Sig series, then move on. Why do people have to try and make themselves feel better by trying to convince everyone else that it's not worth it....

Ditto. Thank you Russ!!

Hopefully the additional info given about the Sigs on the shoot-out webcast last night will convince the nay sayers that there are indeed a lot of differences between the Elites and the Sigs. However, I'm sure some will still be in denial and will write it all off as a big Pio conspiracy.

Looks like PRO151 stands will work on the 141...

The KRP-TS01 Robert listed at $400 is the stand for the LX6090 (Google search), which is the Euro version of the 151.

Once confirmed, I'll be in the market for a dust-collecting 151 stand.

Roberts comments on the 141 vs the 151 solidified that I am getting the 141. Actually speakers, tuner and a stand are 100% worthless to me and I was likely getting the 141 just because it was slimmer. The fact that it has more calibration tools, its slimmer, and has an internet conection to play around with (seems like it can do more then just offer remote calibration) and is more energy effecient makes it a better product then the 151 to me.

Called my dealer and Im on the list to get a call for a preorder as soon as pricing is in their system.

Ditto. Thank you Russ!!

Hopefully the additional info given about the Sigs on the shoot-out webcast last night will convince the nay sayers that there are indeed a lot of differences between the Elites and the Sigs. However, I'm sure some will still be in denial and will write it all off as a big Pio conspiracy.What info was given on the sigs??? My internet was too slow so it only worked at times :(:(.

P.S. The elite mopped the floor... and I saw D-Nice :D Wish I was there

edit: Zues: agreed.

and I saw D-Nice :D


That made it all worth it right there :) :)

What info was given on the sigs??? My internet was too slow so it only worked at times :(:(.


One moment I though was quite funny was when the Pioneer rep. chimed in regarding the 141's additional network ability, that if you were having trouble getting the picture up on your display, Pioneer could tell you via IP you are set to the wrong input.

That made it all worth it right there :) :)

Same here

Ok so I just re-watched the 141 portion to see if I missed anything. The following is the list of highlights they stated over an Elite:

1) Smaller power supply
2) Less heat -see #1
3) Less energy consumption - see #1
4) Robert "no buzzing tuner"
5) Tremendous number of additional settings over Elites
6) Ability to press a button and produce a completely blue screen for color calibration
7) IP network ability, limitless possibility in applications, NONE written however.
8) Thinner profile
9) Hand picked and tuned components

Currently third party companies are working with Pioneer on developing applications that utilize the IP capabilities, along with established dealers persuading Pioneer for further development as well.

Noted differences based on Pioneer's parts list:

1) Remote
2) 2 of 3 drives are different

Ok so I just re-watched the 141 portion to see if I missed anything. The following is the list of highlights they stated over an Elite:

1) Smaller power supply
2) Less heat -see #1
3) Less energy consumption - see #1
4) Robert "no buzzing tuner"
5) Tremendous number of additional settings over Elites
6) Ability to press a button and produce a completely blue screen for color calibration
7) IP network ability, limitless possibility in applications, NONE written however.
8) Thinner profile

My question is whether Pio plans on writing some applications for the panel?

What do you mean by "writing some applications"? Would not these applications already be virtually limitless depending on whatever video source, graphics, etc., etc., you may decide to send to the 141 monitor??

I guess it would depend how you had the monitor connected. I was thinking along the lines of on-board web browser, mail client or server client. Versus using RD or direct PC interface

The Sig's web interface isn't pretty, but owners will be happy. Some additional functionality will be available from 3rd party apps. ;)

I started testing/development on the only Sig (at that time) in the US in May.... :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115638&d=1216502833

That looks like a Pronto IR code page:D

Ok so I just re-watched the 141 portion to see if I missed anything. The following is the list of highlights they stated over an Elite:

1) Smaller power supply...


Yeah, I hear that too, and its also been reported in the press. But I'm a bit confused since Pioneer lists the same Power Supply Unit (AXY1201) for all its 9g Kuro plasmas including the 141. What am I not getting?

Yeah, I hear that too, and its also been reported in the press. But I'm a bit confused since Pioneer lists the same Power Supply Unit (AXY1201) for all its 9g Kuro plasmas including the 141. What am I not getting?

You raise a good point, don't know.

However with less draw points 2 and 3 would still be valid but I too have clearly heard and read about a smaller psu. I wonder what % the tuner really contributes to overall draw. I suspect it is <50 watts, anybody know?

Ok so I just re-watched the 141 portion to see if I missed anything. The following is the list of highlights they stated over an Elite:

1) Smaller power supply
2) Less heat -see #1
3) Less energy consumption - see #1
4) Robert "no buzzing tuner"
5) Tremendous number of additional settings over Elites
6) Ability to press a button and produce a completely blue screen for color calibration
7) IP network ability, limitless possibility in applications, NONE written however.
8) Thinner profile

My question is whether Pio plans on writing some applications for the panel?

I wouldn't be so sure that no tuner means no buzz. I'd love to believe this but, from my understanding, the tuner is not what buzzes.

The Siginature's IP network ability could be very interesting indeed. Besides Pio, others could write applications also .... like with the hundreds of third-party apps being written for the iPhone. This all remains to be seen, of course, but it looks like the Sigs mark the beginning of a new era --- IP TVs.

Another interesting fact that came out during the webcast was that the 10G Pios won't we available for at least another 18 months. I was already 90% sure I was getting a Sig, but with all this new info I'm definitely getting the 141, barring any detected problem after they go on sale late next month or early September.

The Sig's web interface isn't pretty, but owners will be happy. Some additional functionality will be available from 3rd party apps. ;)

I started testing/development on the only Sig (at that time) in the US in May.... :D

Can you speculate on some of the possible applications that could be written for the Sigs?

The Sig's web interface isn't pretty, but owners will be happy. Some additional functionality will be available from 3rd party apps. ;)

I started testing/development on the only Sig (at that time) in the US in May.... :D

Wow neat! This display just shot up quite a bit in desirability for me. Is there a detailed specification/reference for the API yet? Or can you just post your code for the backend of that web interface? :)

That looks like a Pronto IR code page:D

I did remove the background of the attachment (explanation will not given ;) ), it's not white.

Of course, things are always subject to change before release!

Or can you just post your code for the backend of that web interface? :)

Little bit of confusion, this is not my Code or anything to do with ControlCAL. 3rd Party Apps (like ControlCAL) can communicate with these (there are additional options / functionality available), but that has nothing to do with the built-in browser interface.


-S

I wouldn't be so sure that no tuner means no buzz. I'd love to believe this but, from my understanding, the tuner is not what buzzes.


True, this is why I quoted him directly. IMHO it's Pio trying to make a perk out of nothing, unless miraculously none of the Sig owners experience audible panel buzz.

Can you speculate on some of the possible applications that could be written for the Sigs?

I don't want to give details on what I am doing/my interest (except in regards to ControlCAL's support), but I don't think it hard to imagine some possibilities with large scale installations.. ;)

-S

Shawn,

If you're able to and not under NDA, would you be so kind to briefly explain how Pioneer plans to implement calibration over IP.

My speculation goes something like this, Pioneer calibrates the panel to ISF standard at the factory using a base line signal input. Then once the panel is installed they can retrieve the light conditions from the color sensor and the signal input data from the microprocessors via IP. In turn they would use an algorithm to compute the difference between the actual conditions and the baseline to extrapolate the necessary adjustments to the factory calibration. Lastly they would apply said changes over IP, and presto ISF monitor.

Option 2, any old person comes to your home and sets up a meter with tripod in front of your panel, he proceeds to contact Pio, and then he/she sits around making small talk while they do the rest.

I think people are reading more into this than necessary.. I personally have not heard officially anything in regards to the manufacturer getting involved with calibration.

I suppose a low level tech could be dispatched to the location to setup equipment and the actual Calibrator is at another location, but that would involve additional costs (two people involved?). Could applications like CalMAN be designed to work remotely (or just use PC Control utilities) and allow an DIY with the proper meter to get the help of a Professional Calibrator remotely for a reduced cost...? I suppose there are many opportunities... ;)

This simply opens up another communication option, will allow auto-notifications of events/issues, remote monitoring, remote diagnostics and yes remote changes for Control Values.

If they would open up all the options to the internal browser/web interface to any Owner, there would be no need for applications like ControlCAL, Sencore's Utility or C3 Remote. Like before, some options will not be available to the Owner but could be available with 3rd party applications. Adding winsock support does open up additional opportunities for the Installer markets including large scale installations.

Pioneer is not the only manufacturer going this route.

-S

Since he deleted his post and I didn't Quote his, I'll change this one.. :)


Of course, home installations will have some support issues (i.e. opening ports/port forwarding in the location's Router etc.)

Shawn,

I guess the way I have heard Pioneer talk (and tell dealers I've spoke to) about the IP capabilities, to me, it sounded like they were taking an active role, but I guess were actually speaking in a hypothetical sense. However reading your post it sounds as if they have opened the door for you and others to make this become a reality.

Thank you for the information. I can definitely see the advantage of these abilities in large scale installations, looks like your located in perfect place to implement such technologies, where remote monitoring and diagnosis would be extremely beneficial.

Perhaps, remote diagnostics is what I think you are hearing?

Right, my mistake.

So where's the 6020 RC1 in the meantime while I wait for these 141's to start shipping.:D

Ok so I just re-watched the 141 portion to see if I missed anything. The following is the list of highlights they stated over an Elite:

1) Smaller power supply
2) Less heat -see #1
3) Less energy consumption - see #1
4) Robert "no buzzing tuner"
5) Tremendous number of additional settings over Elites
6) Ability to press a button and produce a completely blue screen for color calibration
7) IP network ability, limitless possibility in applications, NONE written however.
8) Thinner profile

My question is whether Pio plans on writing some applications for the panel?

Add to your list hand picked and tuned components, plus as you later pointed out user specific applications, which at this point Pioneer does not have plans to develop as they are strictly custom. Hopefully, Pioneer will have some input, support and hopefully some further applications they develop. I can tell you I speak clearly to Pioneer as to the need for them to be involved in the custom application uses.

The Signature series is truly targeted for the advanced custom installer. At this year's Elite Dealer Road Show I spent most of my time focused on learning about Pioneer's new custom installers monitors.

-Robert

Add to your list hand picked and tuned components, plus as you later pointed out user specific applications, which at this point Pioneer does not have plans to develop as they are strictly custom. Hopefully, Pioneer will have some input, support and hopefully some further applications they develop. I can tell you I speak clearly to Pioneer as to the need for them to be involved in the custom application uses.

The Signature series is truly targeted for the advanced custom installer. At this year's Elite Dealer Road Show I spent most of my time focused on learning about Pioneer's new custom installers monitors.

-Robert

Are there any other differences between the Sigs and Elites? What about I/Os connections? The remote? Please elaborate on the lack of "buzzing tuner."

BTW, thanks so much for putting on this weekends event. I watched it at 6am here in Bangkok.

Pic taken from Post #24 of the 9G Discussion thread in May...

Looks like the 141 Sideview.

Sideview of KRP-600M

Fixed.

Thank you Robert.


Add to your list hand picked and tuned components, plus as you later pointed out user specific applications, which at this point Pioneer does not have plans to develop as they are strictly custom. Hopefully, Pioneer will have some input, support and hopefully some further applications they develop. I can tell you I speak clearly to Pioneer as to the need for them to be involved in the custom application uses.

The Signature series is truly targeted for the advanced custom installer. At this year's Elite Dealer Road Show I spent most of my time focused on learning about Pioneer's new custom installers monitors.

-Robert

Robert:

You mentioned during the shootout that the 141 had a smaller power supply--any comment on why the Power Supply Unit apparently has the same part number as all other 9g KURO plasmas?

I don't believe it is the tuner in the Elites that buzz. The buzz is related to displaying bright whites on my Elite 151.

I thought Pio was selling their Elites as offering full ISF calibration capabilities, so what will more mean?

Pic taken from Post #24 of the 9G Discussion thread in May...

Looks like the 141 Sideview.

that looks sweet...and reason enough to pick the 141 over the 151

Looky what I found :)

LINK to 141 operating manual (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PRO-101FD_OperatingInstructions0708.pdf)

Cheers

^^ xrox,

It's 12:30am and I have to wake up at 5:30am to go to work... WTH, you post that NOW?!?!
You will have to answer to my boss in the am when he asks why I'm so tired! :mad::eek:;)

^^ xrox,

It's 12:30am and I have to wake up at 5:30am to go to work... WTH, you post that NOW?!?!
You will have to answer to my boss in the am when he asks why I'm so tired! :mad::eek:;)I just got home after driving 7 hours to find this, so I'm pissed too :) I'm going to have to really flex my flex hours tomorrow.

Looky what I found :)

LINK to 141 operating manual (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PRO-101FD_OperatingInstructions0708.pdf)

Cheers


:), wasn't supposed to be released yet..

Anyways, pics and details of the browser interface starts on page 66.

Few changes from the Beta Firmware I've been on.

Holy adjustments batman! It's nice to see the colour temp and gamma outside
of the pro menu, and damn, there's actually an R/G/B slider for the layperson!
I like this layout much better than what they did with last year's elite!

Looky what I found :)

LINK to 141 operating manual (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PRO-101FD_OperatingInstructions0708.pdf)

Cheers

again with the manual saying it requires 3 15/16 incehs behind the screen. Doesnt that limit the slim mounting options? Does it effect warranty if you dont follow this?

Holy adjustments batman! It's nice to see the colour temp and gamma outside
of the pro menu, and damn, there's actually an R/G/B slider for the layperson!
I like this layout much better than what they did with last year's elite!

I did post in the past that Owners would be happy with the IP feature(s)... :D

:), wasn't supposed to be released yet..

Anyways, pics and details of the browser interface starts on page 66.

Few changes from the Beta Firmware I've been on.

Yes, I see that and wow does it look great. I misunderstood your earlier post - I thought that the web page was on a seperate computer that was accessing the monitor on the backend via a TCPIP socket and some control codes. But now I see that the panel itself has a webserver built in and serves up its own interface. Very, very cool stuff. And the interface looks really quite good - simple yet very full featured. I could see myself sitting on the couch and controlling the thing from my iPhone - just because I can. :) Definitely scores high in GAF (Geek Approval Factor).

again with the manual saying it requires 3 15/16 incehs behind the screen. Doesnt that limit the slim mounting options? Does it effect warranty if you dont follow this?

if you have decent room around the sides and especially the top area you should be ok.

IF you ever need warranty work you could take it off the mount before the service tech arrived........i know dumb but~

a couple of avsers mentioned having a service tech call to their homes and the tech would not service a panel that was wall mounted. some are just lazy and want to take it back to their shops no matter what the real problem is.

anyway bottom line is it would be very rare if you had a warranty issue anyway. but at least you are considering what and if you would have problems and trying to find answers. and as always i am not pioneer and will not warranty your set so make your own choices.........

Yes, I see that and wow does it look great. I misunderstood your earlier post - I thought that the web page was on a seperate computer that was accessing the monitor on the backend via a TCPIP socket and some control codes. But now I see that the panel itself has a webserver built in and serves up its own interface. Very, very cool stuff. And the interface looks really quite good - simple yet very full featured. I could see myself sitting on the couch and controlling the thing from my iPhone - just because I can. :) Definitely scores high in GAF (Geek Approval Factor).

Plug the Display into your Router, and calibrate/adjust away with your WiFi Connected Laptop, iPhone yada yada

:p

But now I see that the panel itself has a webserver built in and serves up its own interface. Very, very cool stuff.

Are you guys saying that one could surf the web with this without hooking up a computer? The tV is able to access anything on the web? Sorry to be a bit obtuse here. But if that's what it is, that's pretty damn exciting. Does this also mean you could download movies straight to the TV, or would I need a hard drive for that?

The Sigs have there own Web Server which you can connect to remotely with a Browser (Internet Explorer, Firefox etc) and change inputs, pq settings, Power On/Off and other (see pages 66+)...

;)

Are you guys saying that one could surf the web with this without hooking up a computer? The tV is able to access anything on the web? Sorry to be a bit obtuse here. But if that's what it is, that's pretty damn exciting.

No, it just has a web server, it doesn't actually have a web browser.

Although in theory, it could be hacked and probably run a web browser or any other software that runs on whatever OS/architecture it is built on. This assumes it does have some limited RAM/writeable memory of some sort. But then you'd still have to VNC into it to get any output since it cannot apparently display output of its own built in computer interface. So you'd need a seperate computer anyway.

Does this also mean you could download movies straight to the TV, or would I need a hard drive for that?

You'd need a seperate computer altogether, and yes, with plenty of available hard drive space. :)

Sorry. I'm a little slow on this one. So is the main application that I can control the TV from a remote location? (I think that's what page 66 and on is about, but I'm not sure) And I can get it to e-mail me a reminder of something. Tell me if there's more I'm missing or what I'm not getting.

Sorry. I'm a little slow on this one. So is the main application that I can control the TV from a remote location? (I think that's what page 66 and on is about, but I'm not sure) And I can get it to e-mail me a reminder of something. Tell me if there's more I'm missing or what I'm not getting.

On any device that runs a web browser... left the Display on when you leave home? easy to power off....

The Events that can initiate an email are on page 68..

Vashti, didn't those Pioneer Reps give up any of these features at the shootout? ;)

Are you guys saying that one could surf the web with this without hooking up a computer? The tV is able to access anything on the web? Sorry to be a bit obtuse here. But if that's what it is, that's pretty damn exciting. Does this also mean you could download movies straight to the TV, or would I need a hard drive for that?

So Vashti. when are you getting your Pro151? or have you changed your mind to the Pro141:)??

we know Robert has Pro151s in stock since he just shipped one down to Alabama for Chad.

Oh, I'm so busted. Yeah, I got delayed again. And since I was delayed, I thought I'd wait another month and see what the 141 has to offer. Turbe, I think the reps talked about the sigs on Fri night. We didn't get too much on them on Saturday. I need to watch Friday's video. I got delayed by deciding to buy on-wall speakers and needing to do some electrical work for that, etc. etc. But some lucky 9th generation elite will be mine very soon.

Interesting, page 81 explains buzzing a bit (under "flat panel display motor")
but I believe this is the buzz that all plasmas appear to have (ie: very faint
at the back) and not the panel buzz. I hope that's fixed.

Further, they actually mention the dreaded words "burn-in" alongside the term
"Image Retention". In fact, both terms are mentioned quite a bit. Wow, do
they ever want to stress care of the panel. I mean, there is a section on p82
that literally says "PREVENT BURNING" and they basically fill the page with
comments. I haven't gone through the elite/non-elite manuals so this may
also be in those as well, but at least there's an admission of possible burn-in
with said term being used.

WHOAH!! PC D-SUB SUPPORTS UP TO 1920x1200!! Just noticed that (p99).
It's the same with HDMI/DVI. By the way, component supports 1080P.

PS - Hey Vashti, the inputs point downward. ;)

Oh, I'm so busted. Yeah, I got delayed again. And since I was delayed, I thought I'd wait another month and see what the 141 has to offer. Turbe, I think the reps talked about the sigs on Fri night. We didn't get too much on them on Saturday. I need to watch Friday's video. I got delayed by deciding to buy on-wall speakers and needing to do some electrical work for that, etc. etc. But some lucky 9th generation elite will be mine very soon.

hey thats cool vashti, you will have better sound and the best of the best 9G panels and only a ~month wait.

some lucky 9 Sig series panel :)

PS - Hey Vashti, the inputs point downward. ;)

this is great news. I cant believe my monitor will be slimmer and closer to the wall then my on wall speakers. :)

Are we having fun yet? These Sigs are a tech geek's wet dream come true. Now where are the guys that were so sure the Sigs were nothing more than an Elite with marketing hype?

Page 7 shows following input terminals: 1 component, 4 HDMI, 1 RGB, 1 DVI-D, 1 LAN, 1 Video (doesn't specify if RCA or S-Video), 1 IR repeater out.

I'm so glad I held out for the Sig. However, I'll still hold out a bit longer to see how these babies are reviewed. Finally!! After 3 years on this forum I'm pulling the trigger. I'm also getting the Elite Blue-Ray player and Receiver to have a matched set and to take advantage of their intercommunication abilities. Thank you tech gods.

So Vashti. when are you getting your Pro151? or have you changed your mind to the Pro141:)??

we know Robert has Pro151s in stock since he just shipped one down to Alabama for Chad.

Yea Vashti,
When are you getting your 151?

oh and Actually I had to ship it myself.
I bought it in his store in person while I was in scarsdale on buisness.
But I would bet he still has some left.

Looking at the manual for the 141 and there seems to be a distinction between how the TV handles AV sources and PC sources. In fact, the 141 displays 14:9 for AV sources (with the ability to squeeze 16:9, etc.) while PC sources are shown in 16:9. (See pages 97 and 99-100 of manual - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/PRO-101FD_OperatingInstructions0708.pdf )

I am just a little confused. The HDMI inputs seem to be able to take both AV and PC sources. What is the difference and how does it affect the end use of someone who is going to use the TV for watching Satellite TV (both SD and HD channels) as well as blu-ray via PS3? :confused:

I think Vashti was asking about this as well on one of the many threads and the manual confirms the same number of HDMI ports with all on the back.


Russ, do you know how many HDMI inputs it will have?

If I remember correctly, the same, but I believe they will all be on the back.

And pointed down! Which I think will matter on this very slim model. :D

OK, damn it. I'm cancelling my existing order for the 151 and getting the 141.
Anyone know if BestBuy/Mag will carry the 141? The few locations I've contacted did not know.
Also, I realize the 141 will be thinner than the 151. However, will it have the same overall width and height as the 151? I hope so.

Anyone how the physical specs of the 141? In the manual link posted it states "look at specification manual for that info" :(

I mainly want to know, depth, weight and power draw.

Maybe if they can guarantee that there won't be a single stuck pixel on any of the Sigs then I'll believe the hype. Otherwise this "handpicked components" BS sounds exactly like that ... BS.

Maybe if they can guarantee that there won't be a single stuck pixel on any of the Sigs then I'll believe the hype. Otherwise this "handpicked components" BS sounds exactly like that ... BS.
No body will give you any guarantees here....If you believe in pioneer and their product buy it or else you can buy Vizio :)
Just kidding

But Pioneer is aiming this product not for regualr consumer but for higher applications....and it will have some extremely strict QC
Stuck pixel is something no one can guarantee from