actually about 15 months old....did the dvd break in thing at first and didnt watch any black bars or play games etc.....thought all was well this far down the road..........well watching golf last weekend i noticed that the screen was just a touch lighter on the sides where the black bars reside when its in 4:3 mode....just shows when theres a very light solid background....tried the dvd thing again for a couple days straight basically and the %*&^** is still there.....whats my next move ?? keep on playing the dvd for several more days or what ?? thanks alot for the help...

whats my next move ?? I'd say you're best off just watching full screen content for a while, perhaps months, and check periodically to see if the evidence of "uneven phosphor wear" has diminished.

Well, 1st of all, when watching 4:3 programming, you should either A) put the sidebars to display gray, instead of black. Or B) stretch the programming to fill the whole screen. On the rare occasion that I do watch 4:3 programming, I do stretch the image to fit the screen. It doesn't bother me at all, but I know it does bother a lot of people....

either way, change the sidebars to gray, instead of black. That will help with your problem....

This is what happens when people don't follow the warnings in the manual

That's VERY strange. My new panny was never broken-in and I watched black bars and played games since day one. Zero image retention.

This is what happens when people don't follow the warnings in the manual

The warnings in manuals do not need to be followed any more as they are there only as legal CYA devices.

The warnings in manuals do not need to be followed any more as they are there only as legal CYA devices.

If IR is no longer an issue then there is no reason to CYA, is there? But, the truth is that IR is still an issue and reported here daily which is why the manufacturers warn in their manuals.

actually about 15 months old....did the dvd break in thing at first and didnt watch any black bars or play games etc.....thought all was well this far down the road..........well watching golf last weekend i noticed that the screen was just a touch lighter on the sides where the black bars reside when its in 4:3 mode....just shows when theres a very light solid background....tried the dvd thing again for a couple days straight basically and the %*&^** is still there.....whats my next move ?? keep on playing the dvd for several more days or what ?? thanks alot for the help...You must watch a lot of black-bar 4:3 stuff. My 42PX50U has over 7,000 hours on it and about 30% of the viewing was black-bar 4:3 content over it's lifetime yet the black bar area looks exactly the same as the rest of the screen. I've even scrutinized the screen recently with a break-in DVD with the lightest colors up on the screen (i only got the DVD a few months ago and just to play with). No hint of black-bar IR.

Some things you can do to minimize the black-bar 4:3 IR is to maybe switch to a full-screen channel or zoom the image to fill the screen after watching teh 4:3 content and set the sleep timer to turn the TV off in an hour. If you shut it off immediately after watching 4:3 stuff i can see how that might not give the panel a chance to wash itself. You might also use lighter side bars when watching 4:3 stuff, or use the JUST mode more on non-essential 4:3 programming.

tx folks....will it eventually go away after a while ??

Retention is the temporary retention of a previously displayed picture. Once the area of retention is exposed to regular programming, it goes away. Not sure what causes this. Maybe someone else can explain.

Burn-in is where some of the phosphor is worn more than the rest of the phosphor. In your case, the 4:3 area may have more wear than the black bar area. With more wear, the 4:3 area is not as bright as the black bar area, resulting in a noticeable transition from one area to the next.

If you have burn-in, unfortunately it's not going to go away. Hopefully it's a retention problem, but if the problem has existed for weeks, then it really sounds like uneven phosphor wear.

This is what happens when people don't follow the warnings in the manual:eek: but D-Nice says we don't have to

tx folks....will it eventually go away after a while ??It should - it always has on my old PX50U and on my newer PZ700U it always goes away within a minute or two at most and is way less of an issue than the older model. Even though the older Panasonics are very resistant to burn in, i do feel that if abused they can indeed suffer permanent burn-in and hopefully you haven't permanently damaged your screen.

I would keep it tuned to a bright HD channel with the Picture setting on the high side (like maybe +28) for several hours and see if that washes the IR away. If not, continue with that channel for a longer period. Keep us posted.

I agree
the commy pannys they have in the mass transit system here have massive burn in, so it's definitely possible, but I've never seen anything serious on any panny displays used normally

I'm thinking either one of two things are in play here...either you watch mostly 4:3 programming with black bars (and cranked contrast/brightness) or there is something wrong with your particular set. I have 3 plasmas (2 Panny, 1 LG) ranging in age from 4+ years to 8 months old and none of them exhibit this behavior even though occasional 4:3 material is watched with black (not grey) bars on the side.

this always worries me to hear, although alot of people responded saying they use black bars even and never see uneven wear, i've seen it before, and it doesnt like to go away.

I also dislike the idea of stretching out the picture (or even using grey bars, as black blends alot better). I have even heard that people that use grey bars eventually get it anyway....although it may not be uneven wear because the pixels shoulds exercised equally in that case.

Anyway, it would be nice if Plasma makers were as attentive to that problem as they are to improving resistance to IR.

Particularily for SD gaming on top of SD viewing it would be nice to know that this kind of stuff wont happen.

actually about 15 months old....did the dvd break in thing at first and didnt watch any black bars or play games etc.....thought all was well this far down the road..........well watching golf last weekend i noticed that the screen was just a touch lighter on the sides where the black bars reside when its in 4:3 mode....just shows when theres a very light solid background....tried the dvd thing again for a couple days straight basically and the %*&^** is still there.....whats my next move ?? keep on playing the dvd for several more days or what ?? thanks alot for the help...
This confuses me...

Doesn't having the vertical pillars mean that little to no charge is going into those pixels and thus little phosphor excitation?

If that's the case, wouldn't the pillared area seem brighter and more vibrant that the rest of the screen that had more wear. That's assuming there was visible uneven wear of course.

Anyway...seems the problem experienced here is the exact opposite I would have expected from black bar usage.

This confuses me...

Doesn't having the vertical pillars mean that little to no charge is going into those pixels and thus little phosphor excitation?

If that's the case, wouldn't the pillared area seem brighter and more vibrant that the rest of the screen that had more wear. That's assuming there was visible uneven wear of course.

Anyway...seems the problem experienced here is the exact opposite I would have expected from black bar usage.

Correct. And that's exactly what he said - "the screen was just a touch lighter on the sides where the black bars reside when its in 4:3 mode."

He meant "lighter", as in "brighter" to use your phrase, in the pillared area.

This confuses me...

Doesn't having the vertical pillars mean that little to no charge is going into those pixels and thus little phosphor excitation?

If that's the case, wouldn't the pillared area seem brighter and more vibrant that the rest of the screen that had more wear. That's assuming there was visible uneven wear of course.

Anyway...seems the problem experienced here is the exact opposite I would have expected from black bar usage.No matter what anyone tells you... phosphor wear is cumulative and the more full-screen content you watch the more evenly the phosphors will age.

Just read the owner's manual.

Prolonged use of static images and black bars will cause uneven phosphor wear, which will be evidenced by symptoms of ghosting (after images) and/or areas of lighter/darker (top/bottom, sides) images on the screen.

When individuals are patient enough to "properly" break in a new PDP:

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective (http://www.dynamicdigital.ca/documents/Plasma%20Facts%20and%20Myths.pdf)

and remain cognizant of their viewing habits (e.g. 3:1 ratio of full screen viewing versus using aspect ratios that produce black bars) they will "insure" the long term performance of their display.

optivity said
Prolonged use of static images and black bars will cause uneven phosphor wear, which will be evidenced by symptoms of ghosting (after images) and/or areas of lighter/darker (top/bottom, sides) images on the screen.

but alot of films and blu ray are 16:9 which have black bars at the top and bottom and you can not change the color as these are hard encoded into the film, so the only way is to watch the film streched.

i havte doing that but is it ok to watch film like that with black bars at the top and bottom as about well maybe 80% films have black bars

Once in a while I watch a few movies & and shows that have wider aspect ratios and employ black bars, but always follow those viewing habits with 3X the duration of full screen content.

Once in a while I watch a few movies & and shows that have wider aspect ratios and employ black bars, but always follow those viewing habits with 3X the duration of full screen content.
I'm honestly curious, would you mind sharing what content you do watch and in what percentage because I don't see how one could only view "black bar" content only on occasion.

I ask because I agree with Meridus that 80% of movies come "hardcoded" with black bars.

Now, according to my manufacturer, the Display is extremely resistant to IR and uneven wear, however, it also states that should the "impossible" occur and I end up with burn-in and/or uneven wear it's not covered by the warranty.

Given that, I've been pretty gentle for the first three weeks with lower contrast settings and extremely low use of 2:35 films.

The cost for my prudence has not been trivial. My wife complains bitterly about my using the Zoom aspect during 2:35 films and makes statements like, "Why did we get this expensive Plasma if we are going to see movies the "right" way."

She understands we are in a break-in period, but if its the considered wisdom of folks who have used this technology, that watching letterboxed movies will trash my Display, then I'm in big trouble :-)

Left w/o constraints here's how I'd guess my family would use our Display.

30% SD 4:3 Content stretched to 16:9 (no one seems to mind this)
15% HD 16:9 Content (Hey, there just isn't that much yet...whatcha gonna do)
45% 2.35:1 Movies (The vast majority of films seem to be in this aspect)
10% 1.85:1 Movies (Even these have a small bit of black bar, right?)

Thoughts....

In my life, the government contols me, traffic lights control me, my employer controls, my wife controls, my dog controls me to some extent. I will never ever allow a piece of electronic equipment to control me in terms of breaking in slowly and carefully because my TV might get upset with me, deciding what I am allowed to watch, how often, for how long and with what brightess settings. I also reserve a right to fall asleep for as long as I feel with the whitest big square on the blackest background. At least, my government protects me, the traffic lights keep me safe while driving, my employer feeds my family, my wife is there when I need her and my dog is always happy to see me. Plasma rewards the owners with nothing that a decent LCD could not deliver to a normal person who does not live a cave.

In my life, the government contols me, traffic lights control me, my employer controls, my wife controls, my dog controls me to some extent. I will never ever allow a piece of electronic equipment to control me in terms of breaking in slowly and carefully because my TV might get upset with me, deciding what I am allowed to watch, how often, for how long and with what brightess settings. I also reserve a right to fall asleep for as long as I feel with the whitest big square on the blackest background. At least, my government protects me, the traffic lights keep me safe while driving, my employer feeds my family, my wife is there when I need her and my dog is always happy to see me. Plasma rewards the owners with nothing that a decent LCD could not deliver to a normal person who does not live a cave.
Cute...but not particularly helpful.

I'm really trying to cut through the urban legend portion of IR, Burn-in, and plasma wear.

As for LCDs, 2x the cost for a 15% smaller screen and crappy PQ unless you are sitting at the "right" spot...been there...no thanks.

...back to our previously scheduled program....

I'm honestly curious, would you mind sharing what content you do watch and in what percentage because I don't see how one could only view "black bar" content only on occasion.The most recent movie I viewed, about 2 weeks ago, was "There Will Be Blood" on Blu-ray disc w/2.35:1 OAR.

I'm a fan of BSG so even though I get the Sci-Fi channel in SD, I display black bars for that show too.

Generally I watch the HD channels that are carried by Albany Time Warner.

In my life, the government contols me, traffic lights control me, my employer controls, my wife controls, my dog controls me to some extent. I will never ever allow a piece of electronic equipment to control me in terms of breaking in slowly and carefully because my TV might get upset with me, deciding what I am allowed to watch, how often, for how long and with what brightess settings. I also reserve a right to fall asleep for as long as I feel with the whitest big square on the blackest background. At least, my government protects me, the traffic lights keep me safe while driving, my employer feeds my family, my wife is there when I need her and my dog is always happy to see me. Plasma rewards the owners with nothing that a decent LCD could not deliver to a normal person who does not live a cave.

Well, then you will be happy with your inferior LCD ;)

No matter what anyone tells you... phosphor wear is cumulative and the more full-screen content you watch the more evenly the phosphors will age.

Just read the owner's manual.

Prolonged use of static images and black bars will cause uneven phosphor wear, which will be evidenced by symptoms of ghosting (after images) and/or areas of lighter/darker (top/bottom, sides) images on the screen.

When individuals are patient enough to "properly" break in a new PDP:

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective (http://www.dynamicdigital.ca/documents/Plasma%20Facts%20and%20Myths.pdf)

and remain cognizant of their viewing habits (e.g. 3:1 ratio of full screen viewing versus using aspect ratios that produce black bars) they will "insure" the long term performance of their display.

Great post Optivity.

Left w/o constraints here's how I'd guess my family would use our Display.

30% SD 4:3 Content stretched to 16:9 (no one seems to mind this)
15% HD 16:9 Content (Hey, there just isn't that much yet...whatcha gonna do)
45% 2.35:1 Movies (The vast majority of films seem to be in this aspect)
10% 1.85:1 Movies (Even these have a small bit of black bar, right?)

Thoughts....After your PDP is fully broken in, I'd say your family's viewing habits look good to me provided they can limit displaying black bars to approximately no more than 25% of overall use.

tx for the help guys.....ill keep yall posted........