i added up everything that's on my hd, which is basically demos and installs. however, there is about 7 gigs of space that i can't account for. any help?


btw, these installs suck. i'm down to 11 gigs out of 37 and i've only had the system for six months. :mad:

All hard drives set aside a percentage of space that you can't use. PC, PS3, X360... you can't do anything about that, but I do wish that companies would advertise only accessible space instead of the technical correct amount of space.

I am wondering the same thing. I just got an 80GB PS3 and all I have installed MGS4 and Pain. Together they are about 4.2GB. System Info says I have 60 of 74 GB free. I understand why the 6GB are missing. All drives report lower than rated capacity because of directories, partition information, etc. I am wondering what is taking up the other 9.8GB that should be available.

Companies advertise drive space by calling 1000^3 bytes a gigabyte while binary file systems a GB is 1024^3 bytes. So, for instance, a 100GB drive only actually holds 93GB. Plug such a drive into a computer and you'll get pretty much all 93GB of space. However, on a PS3, something like 12% of the system drive is reserved for system management, leaving a bit under 82GB avalable on a "100GB" drive. As for the 360, it simply reserves a fixed ammount of space, about 6GB regardless of which size drive you use.

When I installed my 120GB, I only had 111GB of space available.

120 billion bytes is 111.76 Gigabytes.

Computers don't use a base-10 numbering system, they use a base-2 numbering system.

120,000,000,000 /1024/1024/1024 = 111.758

Hard drive companies advetise a Gigabyte as a billlion bytes. They say it right on the box, too.

I think everyone understand why when they have an 80gb only 74gb shows available but the question here is "Where is the rest of the space between that and my downloads total?" I just bought an 80gb bundle I'll post up how much space I have left once I get it up and running.

I provided your answer just a few posts up, about 88% of that 74GB.

I provided your answer just a few posts up, about 88% of that 74GB.

Had to read it again. I stopped reading it the first time when you started with how companies advertise vs how it really is assuming it was just more of the same below. Good insight thanks.

Edit: Just when I thought I had a good answer I started to question it...Shouldnt the "available hard disk space" take into account the 12% that the ps3 uses for system? Are you saying that I put an 80gb into the ps3 and it reads me back 74gb, AFTER that the ps3 is taking another 12% and not reporting it as taken?

Nah, I am saying that it will report that you have about 65GB free out of the 74GB of space on the drive.

What drives you guys recommend? I am looking at 320gb samsung at Newegg.com, or the WD Scorpio that is 29$ more.

What do you suggest? Oh btw, i have a PS3 with linux, and few games installed and I only have 10gb left. It is the original 60gb version... Any suggestions?

If I remember correctly, my hdd initially had 55/60gb free, and then when system was installed 47 were usable.

47/55.

Had to read it again. I stopped reading it the first time when you started with how companies advertise vs how it really is assuming it was just more of the same below. Good insight thanks.

Edit: Just when I thought I had a good answer I started to question it...Shouldnt the "available hard disk space" take into account the 12% that the ps3 uses for system? Are you saying that I put an 80gb into the ps3 and it reads me back 74gb, AFTER that the ps3 is taking another 12% and not reporting it as taken?
It takes 12%, but it reports it as being used.

For example, when I first installed my 250 GB drive, it reported something like 203/232 free. 232 GB is the actual capacity of the drive, and the other 19 GB were being reserved by the system.

i have 37 gigs available, with 11 gb free. i can account for 19 of the used gb, so that leaves 7 that i can't account for.

you guys are saying that the ps3 is stealing 7 gigs of my hdd space.

Yes. There is nothing you can do about that 7 gigs. When I got my 60GB, right out of the box it was in the low 50's somewhere of available space. My 360 20GB was around 15 or 16 I think.

that extra space is reserved for PS3 use, and I'd imagine a big chunk of that is used as a swap area to help games load faster.

Just wait till you have a bigger hd! I have a 2 750 gig drives in raid. Technically you think you would end up with 1.5 TB but after the File system is done with it all (aka ntfs) you end up with 1.36 TB. That’s 114 gigs of space dedicated only to maintaining the file system.

But that’s the gist of it, you do have a 40-60-80 gig drive but the “missing” space is taken up by nothing more than the data structure to manage the files of fat32.

That’s 114 gigs of space dedicated only to maintaining the file system..
No it isn't. The vast marity of that difference is the the fact that while companies advertise drive space by calling 1000^3 bytes a gigabyte while binary file systems a GB is 1024^3 bytes, as myself and others explained above.

No it isn't. The vast marity of that difference is the the fact that while companies advertise drive space by calling 1000^3 bytes a gigabyte while binary file systems a GB is 1024^3 bytes, as myself and others explained above.

correct. As said before, PCs use a base-2 numbering system whereas humans use base-10. Why base-2? Because a PC only speaks in 0s and 1s, whereas humans have 0-9.

2^10 = 1024. that simple difference of 24 really adds up when you get numbers in the Gigabytes.

You're not being lied to and you're not losing any space. When you buy a "120GB" hard drive you are getting 120 billion bytes as stated by the maker of the drive. 120 billion bytes just happens to be 111.76 Gigabytes on a binary system.

To add futher confusion, a Gigabyte is technically exactly a billion, but it is often used interchangeably with the binary "base-2" system even though it is not technically accurate unless it is notated as a binary Gigabyte. The technically correct term for what a binary computer calls a Gigabyte (2^30 bytes) is "Gibibyte" or "binary Gigabyte"

Gibibyte technically means GIga BInary BYTE

Here you go!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=989759&referrerid=7894390

No it isn't. The vast marity of that difference is the the fact that while companies advertise drive space by calling 1000^3 bytes a gigabyte while binary file systems a GB is 1024^3 bytes, as myself and others explained above.





Incorrect. As someone said earlier NTFS will dedicate 12% of total hard drive space to file structure.

Raw examples

80 gig drive at 12% = 70.4 gigs usable displayed

60 gig drive at 12% = 52.8 gigs usable displayed

40 gig drive at 12% = 35.2 gigs usable displayed


As you can tell 12% difference here is much higher then the 0.98% when taking 1000/1024 if the HD manufacturer is using 1000 vs 1024.



In my case I have 1.5 TB which loses 180ish gigs due to file structure and 14.7 gigs if the 1000/1024 calculation is used.

what's the FAT32 percentage?

what's the FAT32 percentage?

I’m not sure. The PS3 isn’t using the standard Fat32 I knew that could be installed at least for Windows. The down side was the cluster size that became exponentially larger and waisted space. I would think it would be worse for fat32 as the partitions got larger. but I don’t know what they did with these newer versions. I still think NTFS would take more over head due to the advanced file features. Fat32 would be worse on inefficiency of cluster size (especially if you have a lot of small files). This is just a guess.

As someone said earlier NTFS will dedicate 12% of total hard drive space to file structure.
NTFS doesn't do anything of the sort, an no one has claimed that here but you. The "12%" the rest of us were talking about is how much of a drive the PS3 reserves for system managment.


Raw examples

80 gig drive at 12% = 70.4 gigs usable displayed

60 gig drive at 12% = 52.8 gigs usable displayed

40 gig drive at 12% = 35.2 gigs usable displayed


As you can tell 12% difference here is much higher then the 0.98% when taking 1000/1024 if the HD manufacturer is using 1000 vs 1024.

In my case I have 1.5 TB which loses 180ish gigs due to file structure and 14.7 gigs if the 1000/1024 calculation is used.
You are confusing yourself by lopping off the exponents, the difference is between 1000^3 and 1024^3. It takes 1073741824 bytes to hold a GB of data, while HDD manfactures and such call a GB 1000000000 bytes.

what's the FAT32 percentage?
There isn't one, just as there isn't for NTFS either.

NTFS doesn't do anything of the sort, an no one has claimed that here but you. The "12%" the rest of us were talking about is how much of a drive the PS3 reserves for system managment.


You are confusing yourself by lopping off the exponents, the difference is between 1000^3 and 1024^3. It takes 1073741824 bytes to hold a GB of data, while HDD manfactures and such call a GB 1000000000 bytes.


There isn't one, just as there isn't for NTFS either.



Please educate yourself:

"Master File Table
When you format a volume with NTFS, Windows Server 2003 creates an MFT and metadata files on the partition. The MFT is a relational database that consists of rows of file records and columns of file attributes. It contains at least one entry for every file on an NTFS volume, including the MFT itself.

The MFT stores the information required to retrieve files from the NTFS partition.
"


"MFT Zone
To prevent the MFT from becoming fragmented, NTFS reserves 12.5 percent of volume by default for exclusive use of the MFT.
"


From Microsoft on their document "How NTFS Works"

http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/library/81cc8a8a-bd32-4786-a849-03245d68d8e41033.mspx?mfr=true




Now for the smart people around here that can follow the logic, one way you can see how much space you actually have on a drive is when you are installing Windows and are building the partitions. again *raw* data but if you have a 40 gig drive, Windows will tell you that you have 39xxx gigs of usable space and once you format as NTFS you end up with 36xxx or 37xxx of usable space.

Same thing exists for fat32 partitions formatted for the PS3.

"MFT Zone
To prevent the MFT from becoming fragmented, NTFS reserves 12.5 percent of volume by default for exclusive use of the MFT.
"
From Microsoft on their document "How NTFS Works"

http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/library/81cc8a8a-bd32-4786-a849-03245d68d8e41033.mspx?mfr=true

You left off the next sentence, which states "This space, known as the MFT zone, is not used to store data unless the remainder of the volume becomes full."

The MFT Zone space is not subtracted by the OS when reporting free space on a drive. In fact, it's not treated specially in any way other than it is the space on a drive used last, in an attempt to keep the MFT from becoming fragmented.

Well...with the wealth of knowledge here...maybe one of you can answer my question from a while back. After upgrading my PS3 HDD, these are the results I got:

HDD capacity - 250 GB (advertised)
HDD capacity after install - 232 GB (I assume the 18 fewer GBs are from the 1024 to 1000 conversion)
Available space BEFORE restore - 205 GB
Available space AFTER restore - 190 GB

Why am I missing 28 GB? The system information shows it as 205/232 GB, but there is nothing on the hard drive at this point. I havent restored any of my data.

At least, I should have closer to the 232 GB of free space, considering that there is nothing on the PS3.

Even if you consider room for the MG to GB conversion, and for the OS, it still shouldnt be 28 GB...should it?

Please educate yourself:
....

I have, long ago. As I've been saying, and as ferrisg already pointed out you would have found on your own if you had bothered to read the rest of that page you quoted from, you would have seen "reserved" space mentioned there has no effect on the useable space on the drive.


Even if you consider room for the MG to GB conversion, and for the OS, it still shouldnt be 28 GB...should it?
Yes, is should. That 28GB of 232GB is the 12% resevered for system managment which myself and others have been speaking of.

i need a new hdd because these installs are murdering my 40 gig.

i need a new hdd because these installs are murdering my 40 gig.

Yea, I have a 60 Gig and I think I have less than 10 Gigs available.

I'm waiting to find a 320 Gig Scorpio on the cheap.

I have, long ago. As I've been saying, and as ferrisg already pointed out you would have found on your own if you had bothered to read the rest of that page you quoted from, you would have seen "reserved" space mentioned there has no effect on the useable space on the drive.


Yes, is should. That 28GB of 232GB is the 12% resevered for system managment which myself and others have been speaking of.

dang! it was right in front of me. Thanks for the clarification.